John "Rain" Waters is a former lead F16 demonstration pilot for the Air Force turned 777 cargo pilot. In this episode, John discusses the challenges of life on the road, transitioning from the F16 to the Boeing 777, his experience as the F16 demo pilot, and reminisces on a humbling flying experience overseas that he hopes serves as an important reminder to other experiences aviators. Other topics covered: The importance of "Just Culture" in aviation, aeronautical decision making, and John's podcast "The Afterburn Podcast".
John "Rain" Waters is a former lead F16 demonstration pilot for the Air Force turned 777 cargo pilot. In this episode, John discusses the challenges of life on the road, transitioning from the F16 to the Boeing 777, his experience as the F16 demo pilot, and reminisces on a humbling flying experience overseas that he hopes serves as an important reminder to other experiences aviators. Other topics covered: The importance of "Just Culture" in aviation, aeronautical decision making, and John's podcast "The Afterburn Podcast".
You're listening to the forever on the fly podcast What's up baby nerds. Welcome to this week's episode of The forever on the fly podcast, your bi weekly dose of aviation inspiration, education and entertainment. My name is Diane and what's up, homies? My name is Jose, and we're here to get you guys hooked on aviation episode in the middle of this week. Our guest needs no big introduction, but we're gonna give it to him anyway. Yeah, he's kind of a certified badass between having been the leader 16 demonstration pilot for the Air Force has multiple deployments overseas. And now he's flying triple sevens flying cargo internationally. He's here to chat about his life on the road as a cargo pilot and his experience in the Air Force. Without further ado, please welcome Major John rain waters. There I was named John Waters, and I'm forever on the fly. Hi, John, welcome to the show, man. It's been a minute since the little AOPA career day thing that we did together. It's crazy. So I was July. I was just thinking like, the year is over. Like, this is just wild. What a I mean, it's cliche to say but I mean, 2020. What a year, right? Yeah, it just flew by. And right now you are currently in Japan. I am working for a big cargo company. How long are your trips, usually, two weeks is usually what it is. I'm halfway through this one. I get home fall goes to play in Atlanta and Memphis at like
11:55pm on the 23rd. And then I have a Delta flight on Christmas Eve morning to get home. Like there's no telling, like it changes so fast. Like normally this would be set in stone. But COVID Everything's out the window. Yeah. So you get revised. Like normally, I'm going to revise yet knock on wood. But like most trips end up with like five to like 14 revisions nowadays. means like, it's just a fluid. They could change it on you. Yeah. You thought you're going to Sydney and now you're going to China, Europe. And then yeah, so your bounce all over the place. It's just, yeah, it's wild. I mean, I had one, we had a crew who tested positive is back in April. Two guys tested positive when they're in China. But the night before there was six other crew members in a lounge. So they have to assume all eight of those are bad. Yeah. So they put them on a triple seven. And they part 91 flew triple seven, from China to Anchorage. That way, it got rid of all the requirements for three crew members for crew members, even though they're all there and they could operate just to get them out of China. But it worked out for me, but it revised me and cut my trip way short. I mean, it's just It's wild. You just don't know what's gonna happen these days. Yeah, as far as like your work life balances. Is it pretty? I mean, how is it like right now working for the air cargo company that you work for? In? Is it a good work life balance? For me it is it's, it's different. So I have a five year old and the, my trip typically looks like two weeks on. And then depending on where my next trip lands, like two to four weeks off, so that two to four weeks off is phenomenal. being gone for two weeks sucks. But being able to record this, I'm in Japan. You know, technology is amazing. So like FaceTime obviously brings you closer, but it does take to be gone that long. It's cliche to say but like after two weeks, like ah, I feel like he is he's changed. But given the current environment, right, like I got a lot of buddies who are worried about job security. Right now I'm not. The cargo world is booming, and staying really busy, which is awesome. Again, I'm incredibly fortunate to be where I'm at today. And then COVID makes the road suck. I'll be I mean it sucks for everyone. But you typically go from place to place so hotel room to fly in a plane for five to 12 hours to hotel room to fly in a plane for five to 12 hours, which definitely wears on you so be creative with like hotel room workouts. How do you manage like a decent diet? Again, these are all first world problems that I live with. But it just kind of it's a different different time. You know, as we all know, so I hear that man. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's pretty cool. Pretty cool. job you got I think it's both in both worlds. You know about that. Unfortunately, I didn't have the experiences I've had to be able to do what I've been able to do. Flying cargo. You were kind of talking about for you know being at 16 doing demo landing at 19 20,000 pounds and now landing at 540,000 pounds taking off at 766,000 Sounds like it's mind boggling. But the triple seven like is an amazing piece of machinery and just fly I mean, hand flying in our heads, it's hand flying around. It's awesome. It's a great it's a great plane. It's a different challenge for me like it is, you know, the all the automation, I'm used to. I'm not used to having all the automation so learning that piece is probably the biggest challenge for me. I hear that man, I was a in a 757. And I was jumped seating. So I mean, I was just there kind of along for the ride. And we did a cat three approach in the Denver because ice fog and I go out to you, man. I wanted to be like go around. I was like I'm part of the crew. I'm not comfortable. I'm going to be an accident report. Landing without seeing the runway. Auto breaks. I mean, wild rides. Wow. These planes can do. It's wild man. And then yeah, like dangerous. And then even like the taxiing part like I just remember vividly like taxiing to the gate area. And having like the marshals on there, like cars come out to actually get you to the gate because you can't even see the gate signs. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like well, we're a Bravo 17 think we're in the northwest. I hope your iPads have geo referencing. Request progressive taxi. Tell me we're gonna need a marshaller with like a fire torch. I can't see squat. I don't even know what that's like. I don't know. I've never flown a day by far in my life. I think maybe I got to fly in the clouds one time and one or nine on anything I am looking forward to. I'm about to start flying a Cirrus and hopefully get into the Cirrus jet that my buddy has. So I'll be building some building some IFR experience there. So get into something a little different and it's not a triple seven but I no different from anything I've ever flown a jet before. I should be fun. Do you have a question? Does the triple seven have like that trim chain? That's like on a 737 or something you know, like when you have to trim and you hear that huge lugging chain go? Yeah, no, it's all digital. Electronic. Yeah. The 737 Man, it's just they just copy paste copy paste over the years but inherently it's like the same plane that was rolling off the assembly line. Yes. years ago. triple seven for me. It's all all digital. all electronic. All Gucci. Oh yeah. Man. Yeah, sounds so fancy. Does sound fancy. You've been getting really good at your sound effects lately. I've watched police academy my inspiration from one of the characters in that movie. So you're fine a triple sevens now? Yeah, big old plane. A big boy. That is from an F 16. landing at about 19,000 pounds to landing at 540,000 pounds. So oh, I've entered in 40,000 pounds. What's a stall speed on that thing? Oh, yeah. Um, it's what's wildness. I think the slowest I ever landed at 16 was about 150 knots. And that's like, basically, out of gas. No stores on the jet. So 150 knots, and it's not uncommon to be in the low 140s You know, on an approach beat here, and like 150 in the Viper was. That's it? Like you're going slower that two wheels are down on the ground. You know? That's completely different. Super high stall speed. Yeah. swept back wings. In Fun fact, like the Viper doesn't stall. Like you can't stall it. It just wants to keep flying. No way. Yeah, it'll fall like a leaf but still to keep falling flying. Yeah, the main runway length. So for most. Yeah, it's like you gotta have 1000 feet. But I mean, what runway if you're combat configured and you're carrying like divert gas, and I mean, it can get kind of sporty depending on a little saucy, huh? Yeah, I mean, you're going to 200 knots across the threshold and yeah, wait really heavy. Like it just wants to keep going. Those grooved runways did you get the callsign John rain waters out of curiosity? Did you just rain Hellfire over all of your enemies or I wish it was at a couple of beers to get it out of me and anyone who tells you their callsign right off the get go. They're lying to you. So don't don't believe anything they say it should take a couple beers where you get the true callsign I will give you that as an acronym. And it also is a play on my last name. So Oh, all right. I was thinking like, you know, it was like some dumb like you didn't want to train in the rain, you know? So you just got on those days. If it's not clear and VFR I'm not interested in, not not going there like that. I'm going to Starbucks. So what made you, I guess, like, what made you want to go into the Air Force out of all the other branches? Um, well, I was surrounded by an Air Force and Navy guys growing up. So that was my influence. I actually went to the Naval Academy. I didn't go to the Air Force Academy. But you know, I researched a bunch online and in the end, it came down to, I knew the Navy, I was going to float around a boat for nine months at a time with 5000 other dudes. And that just didn't sound that appealing to me. So in all seriousness to I knew that the Air Force had more planes, a greater chance of flying fighters. And I felt like it was a better fit for me for what I wanted to do in the long term. I always heard that the Navy had more airplanes. Maybe they do. I doubt they do. The Army has like the most with all that number of helicopters they have. But it comes down to you know, their Air Force's F 16 F 15. CS anys F 22? F 35? Where's the Navy? They have FA teens and now they're gonna have 35 Lower Right? And that's just like the fighter force, you know, not talking cargo tanker bomber. They don't have all those. They have a couple different airborne control assets. But they're few and far between. And again, you get to land on a boat, which I big fan of like the 10,000 foot runway, not the Yeah, I hear that 300 foot runway. That sounds insane. That's a funny story. When I landed my first landing on a on a jet, you know, I came in, I landed kind of hard. And my captain was like, Oh, you must have been a Navy pilot. Trying to catch them while I was like, I just looked at him like Yeah. The Navy, it's gonna be a transition because they don't know how to flare. They just like, I'm gonna crash on the spot. Short field landing just flop rightfully so. But yeah, hard pass. So the reason why I ask is kind of a funny story. I was stationed down in Miami when I was in the Coast Guard. And we used to pull in the QS all the time, I was something like around 21 years old or so we were at a bar. And I see this group of guys, and I start chatting them up. And I'm just completely making stuff up. I don't know anything. I'm, I knew I wanted to be a pilot. So I'm just trying to impress them like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go into the Air Force. I'm going to be a pilot someday. And all of them had suggested you know, maybe you should go into the to the Navy. They have a lot more airplanes, you could probably get into flight school a little bit easier. And I'm like, What do you know, you look like a banker. You look like a lawyer? What do you do? Yeah, we're F 18 pilots in the Navy. My turn chain super fast was like, open mouth. Insert foot. Guys. Tell me everything you know. And actually, they ended up being super cool and gave us a fly by on our boat the next day. Yeah, Navy's gonna have more helicopters, I would imagine in the Air Force. That's gonna bump the numbers up a little bit. Yeah, I think so. Right? We don't have that we don't have that many helicopters in the Air Force. We have them but not that much. Have you ever flown a helicopter? I was actually my first assignment. So what a commission. And then we had to wait to get a pilot training. I waited 15 months to get pilot training. So I was a lieutenant assigned to the 41st rescue squadron down a Moody Air Force Base. So hh 60s, which was awesome. Because I was a lieutenant. I had no other responsibility other than to stock the fridge with like soda, and snacks. Make sure those are filled and then I got to fly around and shoot the gun. It was awesome. But I've I've flown a Lakota briefly like one for one exchange, which was kind of cool. It was counterintuitive. You guys can appreciate at least for me, I'm like, oh, I want to slow down. It's like pulling my hand back being like the collective I guess. And you're climbing so like it took me took me a little while to get used to it. And apparently the code is pretty easy to fly. Or so say all the loan officers have been flying Blackhawks for 25 years. Now that's what they say man. Yeah, the Lakota for the for everybody that will be listening. The Lakotas II see 145 for everybody that's out there those VA nerds out there looking at up 45 av AV first of all is the demonstration team in the Air Force the same thing as the Thunderbirds, are you guys two different two different entities. So there's the Thunderbirds, right, which is six F 16 at flying formation. And then there are four single ship demo teams that 35 F 22 810 and F 16. And so those demo teams kind of fill in the gaps where the Thunderbirds can't go because you Get some Thunderbirds every single weekend to every Air Show. A lot of air shows we've seen those other teams and I'd say, the single ship demo, you know, it's kind of going out there really showing the overall performance and if you compare the F 16 demo to the Thunderbirds, F 16. And f 16. You know, my objective was to go out there and try to rip the wings off the plane every single weekend, right, just Max perform it somewhere as you're not flying in formation with six other jets, you can't do that. And then the cool part about the single ship demos, I think the best part is the heritage flight. So at the end of the 15 Minute demonstration, each one of those fighters modern fighters is going to rejoin with a world war two or Vietnam era fighter. And you're going to showcase their force heritage past and present 70 years of American airpower all in one, you know, 30 minute window, which is pretty cool. Like to me. I fell in love with a Mustang when I was a little kid, my grandfather was a B 17 Gunner. And just knowing what the P 51 did for us in the war and turning the tides, and then the three feet from its wing, and a modern fighter flying around and air show is like it's a surreal experience. So I'm sure man, yeah. Very fortunate. Very blessed. That's for sure. How would say so Man, that sounds pretty wicked. Actually, I'd rather do what you do. Yeah, that'd be on the Thunderbirds. I thought it was like the Thunderbird show. But yeah, no, I mean, I never said there was never a Thunderbird. And what they do is incredible. It's awesome work and they do really good stuff for our nation in recruiting. I'm not a huge fan of fitted flight suits. I really don't have a fitted flight suit type body. But for me, it was really cool. The demo team, you know, it's you. And 10 maintainers you guys become a really close knit entity. Pilots and maintainers usually don't get that kind of relationship. Because you're walking out the jet, you go fly. You come back, maybe some small chitchat, but it's on the debrief. And then on the plane, the next one, like there's just no time. But, and the demo world, especially the single ship demo world, you guys are just a integral, small knit close knit team, that you get to go travel the world and showcase American airpower, which I think is pretty cool. And the best part. And also, there was no fitted flight suits. That was a plus for me. Talking about John Major, you could totally rock I could see it. There was a guy God put it away sitting back. Is that is that is fun. Man, I'm just kidding rough on his body is their wish list when you go into the Air Force on like what aircraft you want to fly. Everyone has hopes and dreams, right? But it comes to the needs of the Air Force. So you know, Right Place Right Time, right qualifications. And when it starts on pilot training, you can show up, and there are no fighters in your class. And then four weeks later, there's five, so comes down to the right place. You know, obviously, if you do well and you get a chance to put your first choice, and that's available, then maybe you're lucky. But there are some that there just are no fighters or they're no C 17 or whatever they want to do. And they're they did really well in pilot training. But the Air Force always gets the first vote. You get a little bit of say, I think to make you feel good about yourself, but ultimately it's going to come down to a labor force needs. Yeah, gang man, I think I if I could choose if I was in the Air Force, I think I'd want to be an 810 Hold on. I think you know, out of pilot training. That's what I wanted. Actually, it was my first choice. I wanted a 10. And then I put first time instructor pilot, because I was like, Well, if I don't get an A 10. If I'm a FAPE then I'll get another look in three years. And that's what I'm working out. I didn't want to be an F 16 pilot out of pilot training all the F 16 pilots I was around. I would say we're not the people I wanted to be around. And I did a King Air deployment in that in that fate tour out to Afghanistan. I was surrounded by a 16 guys who are all phenomenal. I was like, Oh, it turns out they're not all like the dudes I know from pilot training. The missions really cool. The dudes are really cool. And so I switch as a favor. I put Vipers first when I was leaving my fake tour, it was fortunate to get it but shooting the shooting that gun would be pretty sick. Oh my god. I know man sounds like a lightsaber. You know, I say like, Hey y'all just like America. So much freedom. All I could think about is that movie Team America you know, looking at your accomplishments here. Honestly, I don't even know where to start. You were the leader of the F 16 Viper demonstration team for the Air Force. You flown over 960 combat flight hours 128 combat missions, metals on metals and metals and now you fly for a bigger cargo company flying triple sevens. The thing I'm most proud of, in my whole Air Force career would be my deployment. I love the Viper demo team. That was phenomenal. I do some insane stuff from fly over the Superbowl flying over the Indy 500 racing over the Indy 500, who gets to do that. But when it comes down to it, you know what to join for was to serve. So my F 16 deployment that was, again comes out of Right place, right time operation here resolve it actually wasn't even a named Operation yet. That was the fight against ISIS is before you keep going, John, I want to start start off with like, so there was deep and shit and I know you're not in shit. But I mean, like, that's a pretty good hook. You know, if I'm listening, I'm like, dang, I'll be like, shut up, kid. I'm listening to my favorite podcast. You want a good war story? You want a shenanigans, war story? Whatever you got, I just wanna I just want, you know, a good one. Whatever you got, you might deployment was the highlight of my career. Right? That's why I joined in serve was to go deploy Right Place Right Time, ISIS showed up on the map. And our squadron was already deployed to go to a training deployment. But as we were spinning up for our deployment, again, ISIS appeared. And now what's the world going to do? Or we're going to go fight them. And so instead of going out and just kind of doing a show of force and a training deployment in the Middle East, now we're going to go to combat. So that's all again, all I wanted to do was really go back and get the people who were responsible for 911. Not not same, you know? Yeah, exactly. That's nice, too. But when they're getting people who are doing evil stuff, which is an incredible deployment. But I would say, there I was knee deep in operation here as well. Doing a lot of good work, our squadron did drop the most precision guided weapons of any unit in F 16. History. And then when we change out the next unit drop more and more and more like it was just a really busy time. So a lot of cool stories in there. But I always tell I think, people the highlights and the good stories, I'll say one, because aviation podcast is similar. Like I'm a very experienced pilot at this point, we actually for deploy to a place that we don't go to normally, supporting some people that do some incredible things for our nation that you never hear about. We're down there, we're sitting alert for them. And they're, they're conducting operations. Getting bad guys, but we're there in case stuff just really goes sideways. And more similar, you're put into a status where maybe Hey, emissions going down, you guys need to be in your gear out of the ramp, and you need to launch within 15 minutes to you're going to sit in the jet engines not running, but you can take off within about six minutes. So we were in the sit in the jet be ready to go. So then the bell gets rung and we're off to the races, right? Like this is again, like you know, stuffs happening. So everyone is yeah, you're just amped I bet. Ready? Ready to go man, like it's time to go do it. We scramble, we launch in about three minutes after we launch we get canceled. So mission gets terminated. Now we've we've taken off from this relatively remote spot that's not a very well prepared area and doesn't is not used to have an F 16 Right so there you know that you see like these really nice runways nice precision approaches none of that really exists the controllers I would say in the weaker side of the controlling category right so it's not strength it's night we've taken off we go out there like me and my flight Lee we're talking like well we got all this gas What do you want to do like let's do some dive glide attacks on these boats out of the water like I was we're not gonna drop weapons on them but we're going to practice right so make a couple people probably bad should have been here. We both rolling we do these die glide attacks. So we're about 1000 feet in the dive glide attack is meant to roll in you dive like 15 to 20 degrees nose low you acquire the target in the targeting pod. And then you're going to release the weapon you're in check away from it and you're going to lays the weapon to hit. We both do one attack and this is a man pitch black darker than dark. We both do one attack we recover and like you know what? I can't tell if it's boats or stars. I can't tell if the stars are boats. There's no horizon line. This is kind of dumb. So we don't want to go pack it into the ocean. So we're like Hey, tell you what we got a lot of gas. Let's just do two 360s and afterburner and just try to burn down some gas because we're happy. We got 2000 pounds of bombs and 2000 pounds of missiles. The Jets really heavy, the runways crappy so all these things are going into it. through two laps, we burned down our external fuel tanks, we start heading back to land. So I'm number two, I'm going to ride our trail two miles behind my flight lead, he lands and then I land right behind him. So as I land, again, this is the Jets relatively heavy at this point, but it's not excessive. The way this runway is designed is pointing at the end of the ocean, which looks like a black hole. There are again, the lighting system on the field is not great, it's there. But what I see obviously, is his jet. And then down at the end of the runway, I see the blue taxiway lights off to the right hand side for the last taxiway. In most Air Force bases and most I mean big fields in the United States, that last taxiway usually aligned with the end of the runway, nine times out of 10. Right, yeah, that's what I'm conditioned to. So in my mind, I'm seeing this, I'm assessing my speed, I'm seeing the black hole at the end of the runway, and I just jam on the brakes. So I think I'm going to go off into the runway into the water. I everything it's got, I'm trying to stop it, I smoke both sets of tires, which first time I've ever done that. And a jet was heartbreaks and pop both tires. And it's not like an incredibly uncommon thing to do like popping tires, and heartbreaks and F 16. But this is a completely my fault, right. And what it came down to, again, I'm experienced guy at this point, been doing combat ops for last like three months. And this is a very basic thing, right? This is airfield study 101. We've been at this location for about a week and a half focused purely on the mission spin up in the supporting the guys want to do. But the most basic thing was just airfield study, looking at that airport diagram, that taxiway was 1500 feet from the end of the runway. But I still had another 15 overriding I never looked at it right? Because this place was so poorly designed, if you use the full runway length, or if you're taking off in that direction, and you need it for runway length, you'd have to back taxi on the runway. Like that's just incredibly inefficient. And none of our runways are set up that way. So I mean, for me, that is a story that I think lens is a reminder, like, no matter how experienced you are, like, you can very easily paint yourself into a corner, right? And it's the basics. Flying a night I flew at night a ton, right? And that's one thing that if you ever get comfortable flying at night, or if you get comfortable flying in the weather, and you think you'd have this dope out, that gets when you need to slap yourself. Because that's when you're going to kill yourself doing it and I'm here I was like a tweet flying at night another night. Sorry, I got this right. And I would have to like slap myself because that's when you're in kill yourself. I got crazy stories of like buddies who like rejoined on cell phone towers, on departure, things like that, that could have ended really quickly. But there was a like a last minute. Aha recognition of it, you know, like, yeah, yeah, it didn't matter. Like how, you know, these are experienced guys and girls. So for me that those that was my non sexy you thinking I'm like, I'm like, Oh, crap. That's the taxiway. Yeah, I mean, you're like, This is it. This is not gonna end well. You know, are you gonna jump out of the jet? What are you gonna do? So pero Broken Arrow. Yeah. So I actually made that taxiway. So by the time I stopped and turn, once I turned onto the taxiway, I realized that the tire like one tire pop, and then the second tire, the fuse, plugs, and F 16. Just like, you know, big jets. So I felt a fuse plugs go on the other tire as well. So then I just stopped, and there wasn't a whole lot going on at that airfield. So it wasn't that big of a deal. You have to call maintenance and get you tow and it's purely just a bruised ego. Yeah. When it comes down to it. So what's in here amigos tell you after? What did your flight lead? I think he was thinking the same thing. He did not he had heartbreaks, but he didn't put his tires in pop. So it wasn't on the binders as much as I was there. But I think it's one of the things you know, there those of have and those that will and anyone who gives you grief or if you give anyone grief, like when they've been metal or they do something stupid, like you're the next person to do it. So I think we're really good in the fighter pilot community is your own, like, own that mistake. The biggest thing the biggest fallacy is to not tell that story, right or not own up like this is what happened. Because you're learning from everyone else. And it's not playing I have a secret. You know, we're used to doing debriefs like as a squadron, like on Friday like if someone did something bonehead, a bonehead move I got something really significant, they would stand up on Friday. And they would they would say that right? And no one judges them for it. Because it could be you. I mean, again, I know really experienced guys who have, either they've, they packed it in or they've come close to packing it in. Because it was just like a small, small or small mistake or the grandpa differently. So again, yeah, it's one of those things. Now if you do it repeatedly, like you're gonna get call sign up. You're gonna get that call. That takes a couple of beers. Breaks. Yeah, I was just like putting myself in that position where you're flying over the water and not knowing which ones boats and what stars anyway, that that could be super disorienting. It couldn't even imagine. Yeah, I mean, on that deployment, we lost one of the guys in our squadron to spatial disorientation. And it was, it was on an ILS approach. But again, I don't think I've seen darkness like that. Like, it's just so dark out there that you can describe it. And he got disoriented, and he landed short of the runway. And it's kind of again, he's an experience, dude. And it kind of goes back. It's I mean, it's back to that whole thing. Like, you know, we all make mistakes that cost him his life. Obviously, incredibly unfortunate. But it's like one of those things that the more you do it, I think the more I realize just how fragile life is, and how quickly it can go sideways, you know, so, yeah, attacking boats in the middle of the night, when you can't tell where the horizon is, is one of those that goes in the category of, maybe we should not do this. So we're in the decision making process all the time, or like, whenever someone says something like, you know, and then you know, pretty dense like, so the decision making process was okay. We can't We can't we captured the mistake. We're just like, This is dumb. We should not do this anymore. We went through the first whole decision, right? It's like, we're not going back. This is not gonna work out. Well. Not gonna work out well at all. Hey, you, you figured it out. And you deviated from the plan. And that's what I learned. And you're still around to tell the tale, right? A decision making process worked. Tacking boats, and I would, I was on one of those boats. And I just like, you know, I'm sure you don't hear the jets coming until you like break away or something. But that moment, you're probably breaks away, I probably would have had a heart attack. Or I think I flew over a boat demo up in Rhode Island, in full afterburner at about 15 feet. And nice. It was in like, isn't it it was in the traffic pattern. And the tower actually goes, That guy's now awake, because like, he probably is. diving off the sides. I couldn't imagine what that was like. But if you're, especially if you weren't paying attention. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of those stories. I know. There were a lot of good little gems in there for us as aviators, a lot of important lessons, right, like number one, always going back to your basics. Don't forget to look at your airport diagram, remembering those things from when we first started flying, to always staying humble and remaining the student like we're constantly learning and improving and learning from other people's mistakes, which is huge. And something that I really like about the way that the industry has been going is a lot of companies have been implementing that just culture. And for those of you out there who don't know what just culture is, it's basically a concept relating to pilots having a safe environment to come forward and admit when they make mistakes, without fear of being reprimanded by the company that they work for, which creates a culture of safety within a company, which is very, very important in aviation. Obviously, I worked for a company A while back, that really led with fear every single morning, there was an hour long meeting about all the different ways that you could get fired that day. And that created a really dangerous work environment because it created this situation where people wouldn't want to come forward. You know, if they'd done that helicopter on the side of the hangar when they're putting it back or overspread the aircraft because they feared that they would lose their job and you know, you're not the only one that is flying that aircraft and someone else is going to fly it after you and then someone else is going to fly after them. So you're not the one necessarily putting yourself in danger of that like fatigued engine or the dinged blade, someone else's Gonna be flying an aircraft after you. So it's so important that people are comfortable with coming forward when they make mistakes. There was a story from another company that I worked for, you know, in the A star and the EC 130. The FedEx in their record up to, like 30 maintenance logs. So if you overspent or over torqued or over did anything, then it would record it. There's a story about a guy who sat out on the ramp, and he did like 30 starts and stops of the helicopter to try to erase the fact that he over sped the machine. Yeah, I think there was some maintenance guy there late night and was like, what, who the heck is out there starting and stopping the helicopter so many times, and it's because he was trying to erase the overspeed or, or over torque or whatever he did to that helicopter, which is super bad for him. Obviously. We're all human, you're gonna make mistakes. I make mistakes. My first landing that Well, it's funny, I say I have a lot of first landings. You know. I think about it, but not that big of it. I'm like, Wow, man. There's a lot of first landings. So this landing, this one was in a helicopter. But I was already experienced, you know, but where I was landing was in the canyon in the ground was slopey to say that, you know, it was very tiny. So like, all my pile of friends are watching me land. And I, you know, I thought I nailed it at first, but it was a little rocky. Yeah. And everybody was like, Yeah, you did. This chick sends me a text later that day. And it's Kermit the Frog, looking out the window. And it's like, raining out there. And it says it's like a meme. And it says, do you think about your landings? Like your landings? Think about you think that bad landing is thinking about you? Thinking about it. I was just like, that was your first that was your first time landing in the Grand Canyon. Yeah. Rocky landing, I'm just saying. We're in the Rockies. We're in the Rockies done. So something that we all I guess the three of us have in common is, you know, a common goal to spread and share a passion for aviation and get more people involved and get more people excited about it again. And yeah, I guess all three of us have been very fortunate during this time to not be the ones furloughed and having essential jobs. So yeah, we're super grateful over here as well, that that we still are flying and getting to do the thing that we love. But you also have a podcast, the afterburn. Yeah, how's that going? You know, I couldn't spell podcast like a year and a half ago. So I had really low expectations when I started it, but it's doing really well. And it's kind of like we just mentioned, I think, podcasts are a great medium to get the word out there, right, and to share aviation to share different stories bring people together. And that's been like, that was a whole goal for me. And I think it's going well, like so far, I plan on keep doing it. And I think it's really cool to see more people get into the space to do this. Because, one, it's like the self licking ice cream cone. When you get people to do it, like it's just gonna keep growing. Because it's getting the word out there people who find an interest in whatever genre and happens to be aviation, using once they find one, they want to find another one because there's just no way to produce enough content like for each one of us, you know, and everyone's gonna have a different perspective to so hearing those and bring those all out I think is really cool. So totally. Yeah, mine's a little bit more military like focused. Like right now we'll see what it grows into. But it's obviously aviation centric. I got a couple guys on there like a former Greenbrae who lost his legs with a pressure plate ID. But I met when I was out in California in the air show, and I was learning to surf I never served. But Caleb Brewer, so he's one of the episodes I have, I'll just say this, like, I'm out there and I'm floundering. Like just I am I'm gonna die on the surfboard. hills over there. Surfing. Right. And I would say, I had a slight advantage over him because I still had my legs. He didn't but like his attitude, his dedication, like it was just like phenomenal, phenomenal human being, like hearing his story. So it's like capturing those stories and bringing him out like, guys like that, who, I'd say have an excuse to say, You know what, I'm good. I'm just gonna chill out, like, complete opposite like he's, he started a gym for adaptive fitness, and he's like, just crushing it right and he is he has some significant hurdles and we're calm so it's cool getting those stories out there. Yeah, man. super inspirational. Yeah. Oh God bless, man, man. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, they're like now I was like, I have no excuse not to go to the gym. You know when you're wake up like I feel bad about whatever like poor pitiful me and like, I got I got no excuse. Yeah, can't find that little tiny violin for yourself. Now did you wear the wetsuit because I know you expressed? Yeah, what's he doing? That's terrible no wanting to squeeze into a flight suit. So full circle. It was survival mode so cold out there. It's so cold. Oh, before we completely close out here. Is there any last remarks that you want to tell our listeners? Any words of inspiration or advice that you'd want to close out with? Yeah, you know, I always asked like I asked my guests that same same question. I always referred to like, Hey, if you found your 16 year old self on the street, what would you say? It's cool to hear those different perspectives. For me. I think it's something, there's no like one set path, right, everyone's gonna have a different path. If you really want to go do something, you have to pursue it. And if it's a profession, like aviation, like it's not going to be easy, there are absolutely going to be hurdles. But you have to have the fortitude to push through. And it's gonna be easier for some versus others. Like, that's just a fact. People you're in training with, they're gonna breeze through and you're gonna get stuck on this or that, right? But you have to focus on pushing through to get to the end objective. And while you do that, being a good dude, or do that, because you need to bring other people up with you. And that's gonna make you a better person. But ultimately, obviously, this is like, I'd say, like a core foundation of the military aviation, right? Like, you're always gonna be fighting an element with another wingman or multiple wingman. Right? So you're a team. But I don't think that changes and where, like, where you go, right? Like, you're going to have people that are gonna back you up, and you're gonna be able to support. But if you are not a good person, and you're always looking out for yourself versus looking out for others, you're not gonna get as much out of it. And I don't think you're gonna be as good. Like, maybe you're just the Savant, but most likely, you're not. So be a good person. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, that's been kind of the motto. That's been our motto. Yeah, just be kind be good. And yeah, just be a good dude, or do that, and it'll get you so far. Yeah, it's so easy. But essentially, yeah, like, put that on a t shirt. And don't be that guy, you know, or girl. Don't be that person that everyone's like, Come on, man. I don't have I don't have any social media. So like, maybe that's what I should put on my like tagline Don't be. Everyone's been coming out of the woodwork just, you know, talk, reaching out to Jose, because he doesn't have any social media and everyone always gives him crap for it. And they're like, when did you start a podcast? On Instagram? going against the grain? Yeah, I was like, man, you know, witness protections tough. You're gonna start a podcast. That wasn't the smartest thing but you know. I use a pseudo name. Address contact my Instagram for more information. That's awesome. I just want to say thanks for your service. Let me go. Like man, he does a damn good story. So yeah, he didn't disappoint. It only cost two tires. Yeah. Yeah, and you use the line, man. Yeah. Yeah, there was and everyone says No shit. And you're like, yep, in the shit. And your story? Yeah. Oh, thank you so much, John, for taking the time and and talking to us. And this has been such a blast. I can't wait to get this out there and continue to spread the word, man. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. This is fun. I appreciate it. Super found for sure, John. Appreciate it, man. And those those big boys. Yeah. Well, that's just me. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening in. We appreciate all of your support. We hope you took away some golden nuggets from major John's experience. If you enjoyed the show, go ahead. Depending on the app you're listening on, give us a follow leave us a review give us some stars throw us a comment. We'd always love to hear from you. Have a wonderful day, kick ass and go fly. Check in next time.