A million words come to mind when describing our next guest….leader, aviatrix, inspirer, maaaajorly awesome human being! With over 1500 hours in the F16, including 163 combat hours over Afghanistan in support of Operation Resolute Support and Operation Freedom’s Sentinel, there’s no doubt that this woman is a true hero and patriot.
She’s Currently flying her second season with the USAF’s Thunderbirds, paving the way as Lead solo pilot flying the #5 jet out of Nellis AFB, and serves as the squadron’s chief of standardization and evaluation.
In this episode we dive into the Major's journey through ROTC, the USAF, Thunderbird training, and her favorite aspects of being a Thunderbird.
Stick around at the end of the episode we will discuss internal and external pressures and the art of proactive preflight procedures that will help you slow down to facilitate a safer flight!
A million words come to mind when describing our next guest….leader, aviatrix, inspirer, maaaajorly awesome human being! With over 1500 hours in the F16, including 163 combat hours over Afghanistan in support of Operation Resolute Support and Operation Freedom’s Sentinel, there’s no doubt that this woman is a true hero and patriot.
She’s Currently flying her second season with the USAF’s Thunderbirds, paving the way as Lead solo pilot flying the #5 jet out of Nellis AFB, and serves as the squadron’s chief of standardization and evaluation.
In this episode we dive into the Major's journey through ROTC, the USAF, Thunderbird training, and her favorite aspects of being a Thunderbird.
Stick around at the end of the episode we will discuss internal and external pressures and the art of proactive preflight procedures that will help you slow down to facilitate a safer flight!
You're listening to the forever on the fly podcast. Good morning, afternoon, evening, AV nerds around the global community. Welcome to this week's episode of The forever on the fly podcast, your bi weekly dose of aviation inspiration, education and entertainment. My name is Diane dollar. And I am Jose Hernandez. We're here joining forces to get you guys aviation. So that was pretty tricky because right now Jose and I are on Zoom because I am no longer in Los Angeles. I know you left me I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I had to spread my wings and fly to the east coast or drive to the East Coast. That was a that was a long drive. Man. That was pretty long. But I know, I can't believe it took you that long, you know, on the four or five nights you know, I had to make a pit stop and take SAS for a couple of weeks and did some training there with another kind of group of private owners type of a deal. That was pretty good. Got to fly. You see see 120 EC 130 and did a couple of flights and the bell two of six. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Did my did my first dolly landing in a couple of years. Wow. Did you? What one do you like better? The UC 123. I know you haven't flown on before and or two? Right? Yeah. I have wanted to six a cup of like 16 hours in a to six very long time ago, I did a turbine transition course when I was going through flight school. Would you want to upper limit which by the way is which, by the way, if anybody's thinking they're in flight school, and they're thinking they want to take a turbine transition course, it is not worth the moolah. And the only reason why I was able to do it was because the GI Bill was paying for it. So it was a college credits for me. But that school has now lost their privileges. And now I didn't go to upper limit. I went to Universal helicopters. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I actually enjoyed flying the EC 120 A lot, which is I did you know, it gets a bad rap. A lot of people don't talk about it, but I really enjoyed it, because it's smaller than ac 130 The tail rotor is not boosted. But it was a lot easier to move the pedal so I felt more comfortable in there because I'm so used to flying a star's and you know, having my having my tail rotor hydraulically boosted and an AC 130 hopping in there, it was a little funky at first, you know, kind of kind of weird to get used to, again, with the pedals being so heavy, and I didn't really like I didn't really like it too much. But yeah, but easy. 120 was super, was super cool. I mean, as long as it's not loaded up. I mean, you get a bunch of people in there. You know, it doesn't perform too great. But if it's just you and one other person, it's actually a really fun little bird to fly. So I was I was, I was pretty happy with it. You know? Is that the one you landed on the dolly? Now that was a 206. Yeah. But yeah, then the training was really cool. You know, I got to do my buddy Dominic, who I think we're gonna get on the podcast here. At some point, he actually did all of the data collecting flights to create the A star simulator for flight safety. So that guy's pretty legit. But his flying abilities, and we got to do some really cool tail rotor failure training, but I had never done before. That's cool. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear you got some pretty cool training out of it. Yeah. Yeah, totally. People in Texas are so nice, which is one of the reasons I have decided to move there in the next couple of weeks. So, yeah, I'm going to be flying some fixed wing. I'm actually getting my multi engine license right now. My check rides on the 19th. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. I am a collector of readings at this point. One of the last ones that I need to get right, so my fixed wing, multi engine license so I can hop on a King Air and I'm also going to be flying up to latas hopefully, that'd be awesome. Yeah, and a lot of you really want a PAC 12 PAC 12 and some helicopter stuff also. So just find contract stuff for private owners. It's going to be pretty awesome. We'll see if it, you know, can make a life down there. While you're not done with your real Greetings yeah we still have to get our float oh yes next summer Alaska that is on the docket as well seaplane that is on the docket plane. Yeah, we got to get our our float rating. That'd be that'd be sick. That's gonna be next summer for flushes oh, by the way guys, I just want to apologize for absence time away from our podcasts. I had a lot of life events going on and we're gonna get back to it. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and I hope to be pumping them out here on the regular for you. I too have had a lot of life events as we mentioned I had to drive and move my entire life across the country and debt but yeah, we're excited to get back to it. Our next guest a million words come to mind when describing her leader ABA tricks inspire me Julie awesome vaping with over $1,500 in the F 16 including when 163 combat hours over Afghanistan and supportive Operation Resolute Support and operation freedoms Sentinel. There's no doubt that this woman is a true hero and patriot. She's currently flying or second season with the United States Air Force Thunderbirds Dang, paving the way as a lead solo pilot flying the number five get out of Nellis Air Force Base, and serves as the squadrons chief of standardization and evaluation. And stay tuned for the end of the episode where we talked about external and internal pressures. And a reminder to stay actively proactive in your pre flight process to culture a safe and healthy flight. We've been waiting a really long time for this. And I'm sure you guys have been on the edge of your seat waiting for us to come out with a new episode. So we're stoked that she's here joining us today. Everyone please join me in welcoming Michelle Curran. You do a full barrel roll. And eventually we'll do a full loop. And we'll just do them over and over and you just move it in tighter and tighter. Hey, I made your Michelle current and I'm forever on the fly my name is Jose by the way senior EDA Nice to finally meet you or see you in person. Right. Yeah, it's been a work in progress to get this scheduled. I know major major Michelle curve. Is it Korean or Korean? Korean? Awesome. You're Where are you at right now? We are in Pocono, Pennsylvania. Okay, what's there to do in Pocono? Not not a lot is that on the east or west side of Pennsylvania? It's on the east that we're really close to New York. So we're actually going to steward in New York tomorrow. And it's like a 10 minute flight for us. Oh, really? Did that hurricane affect you guys at all? I thought I heard something. Yeah, it canceled our air show on Sunday, just because so much rain came through. Wow. Lay so we only flew on Sunday or on Saturday? Yeah. But it's sunny out now. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about you want to talk about mace. And anytime I hear the word mace, it just brings me back to being maced. Coast Guard. Everyone thinks that I must have like, beat some guy up and sprayed him with pepper spray. And that's how I got my call set. I wish it was something cool like that. In general. Callsign sound cool, but they almost never have a cool like story that makes you cool. Like did they purposely give you a call sign for something dumb? You did? Yeah. So we have heard I know. I mean, I've learned like there's one that were called peg leg right. Peg Leg and another one was was another call center. We heard that was on our interviews. Oh, just I mean, rain rain. I'm sure you know, rain. I'm sure you know, rainwater. Yeah. Did you guys serve in Afghanistan together? We weren't in the same squadron. So we I don't know if we were there similar times or not. But I've met rain a couple times just their air show stuff. He was leaving right when I kind of showed up. But he's separated from active duty now living the good life. Right? Yeah. Flying FedEx. Yeah, I think he's, he did a good job of exiting, like right after the demo team and taking the really fun cool parts of the job, which is like the stuff with the kids and inspiring everyone and like transitioning it. Right. I think he did that. Well. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So being in this job specifically, a lot of people ask me like, how did you become a Thunderbird? Were you like a kid when you're five years old that saw the team fly and was like, I'm gonna do that. And really, I kind of just stumbled into it was just kind of joking, but not really. I grew up in a small town in North Central Wisconsin, and we did not have any air shows there. There were any military bases nearby. I didn't have any immediate family. Were in the military at all. So I didn't really have any exposure to it. I was a good student growing up. And you know, like halfway through high school, my parents, who were super hard workers like middle class family, they're like, Hey, we don't have a college fund to just pay for your college. And you probably don't want to be in a, you know, $100,000 of debt. So let's start talking about scholarship options. And my dad suggested he had gone to the University of Wisconsin Madison and seen the ROTC program there. He wasn't part of it. But he had seen the cadets running around. He knew of it. He's I think he would do really well in this. And my first reaction was, heck, no, I do not want to be in the military, I want to wear a uniform. I want to be a normal college kid and do all the normal college things. And like my knee jerk reaction was now like, that's not for me. Here we are. But the more we looked into it, he's like, let's at least look into it and go visit an ROTC detachment and check it out. So I learned more about it. And I was like, there's some pretty cool things you can do. And I didn't want to stay in that small town, I grew up in, like 4000 people. And it was a great way to travel the world. And I was just a really adventurous kid driven and the more I looked into it, the more I was like, well, this would actually probably be a good fit. And then you talking about different branches of the military and quality of life. That is one reason I picked the Air Force. The Air Force. I mean, everyone will say like, the Marines are going to be out sleeping in the dirt and the army is going to be at 10 Air Force is going to be in like you said before seasons. And that's kind of joking but but kind of true. All the Air Force Bases I've ever visited had like seven golf courses, instead on a really nice bass down in Hawaii, like a private bungalow, the private beach for 40 bucks a night, something like that. Oh, yeah. It was super, super nice. And in the cafeteria, someone actually took my tray for me after I finished eating. I was like, What are you doing? And they're like, are you done with your food? I'm like, put you're taking this for me? What? You guys have people? Yeah, that's up. That's what stuck out. Yeah. Like you're taking my tray. Why? If I could, if I could go back and probably good. I'd probably go to the Air Force. Air Force. Yeah, hand down. You know? Yeah. Butter Jelly. Yeah. We all give each other a hard time about it. But I think like, once you've been in for a while, you're like, well, it is nice to not sleep in a tent. Right. But yeah, yeah. So and then aviation was something that I wanted to do, but didn't have the opportunity to do when I was younger. I, there was a small airport in my hometown, and I told my parents, I want to take flying lessons. And they were kind of just like, yeah, that's it sounds expensive. And like we that was the end of the conversation. And it never really happened. I thought when I was applying to an ROTC scholarship, if I was going to be in the military, I wanted to do something challenging and exciting. And flying kind of just naturally fell into that category. And I loved roller coasters. I love like climbing trees and jumping off things. And like, I was just that kid that my mom would turn her back for five seconds. And then she'd be like, Oh, god, she's up in the tree. Yeah, you and I say that it was off to the races. And I did ROTC on a scholarship, which was amazing. I made such good friends there. And I was a super shy, introverted kid. And it really forced me outside of my comfort zone. And I grew a ton in the four years I was at college. So that was, that was awesome. It was great that that program really helped with that. And then I got a pilot flight out of there. And when I went to pilot training, it was kind of the same thing. I was like, Well, I'm going to be a pilot, I want to fly something fun and exciting and fast and go upside down. So I put f 16. First on my list. And here we are, how competitive is it to get a flight slot, a pilot's lot out of ROTC, it really ebbs and flows, depending where the Air Force is out with their need for pilots. So when I was graduating, which was in 2009, I think my class got six or seven. And that was honestly about how many people actually wanted them. So it worked out pretty well. But I know there's years where it's less or it's more, and I think every class kind of varies. How many people want it and how many don't. Turns out not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot or wants to be a pilot, right? Surprise. But yeah, it's fairly competitive, though. You can't you need to be like in the top, I would say 30 of your classes. So to be competitive, they aren't going to set someone who's bottom of their class, even if they had a spot to flight school because I think they're kind of setting them up for failure. How does it work with ROTC? Is there like morning formations every morning? Do you have Kennedy like a part time job or how does that work? Being in a university doing ROTC program? Yeah, exactly. So my dad brought that scholarship opportunity up and I was like, Heck, no, I don't want to do that. did not realize how much of a balance you actually can have as like a normal college student and an ROTC cadet. So for us, I think we did like morning PT twice a week. So you'd go work out together, which was early. But I mean, it's two mornings a week, that's not very like that much of a time commitment. And then you do what's called Leadership Lab, which is a couple hours, one day a week, I think every detachment does a different time. But that's when all the cadets from all the different grades like so freshmen, through senior are all together to do stuff like marching and problem solving, and just all kinds of stuff. That's kind of like the heart of the detachment is that leadership lab every week. And then you have a class just like you would any college class that's once a week that's specific to your year in ROTC. And you're learning all kinds of stuff from like military history to how rank works, the customs and courtesies. Like all the basic stuff you need to go in as a lieutenant when you finally graduate. So it's a couple days a week that you're in uniform. And when you're not going to those courses, you're in normal clothes, you're a normal student, you're living on campus or off campus or whatever. So it's, it was pretty awesome. I think it's a good deal. Yeah, it's pretty legit. What percentage decides not to go active after they graduate? Do you think? So I've heard that it's been way more selective lately, just with the demands of the Air Force when I went through. It was after sophomore year, you had that summer commitment, where you basically went through basic training and for a month, and once you had done that you're committed at that point. You need to like finish the program. And then you're going to go there for four years. I don't know what the dropout rate was from people who entered as a freshman. To those who actually finished as a senior there were definitely a few every year that would continue for whatever reason. But it was pretty good percentage that made it from my class that started to actually commissioned to us four years later, you graduated and did you go straight to flight school or straight to active duty? What was your path after you graduated? Yeah, so I know this varies all the time, you'll probably hear about like casual lieutenants, where they just send them to a base to do some random job until flight school spot is open. We had a break just with one they could fit everyone into the flight training pipeline. So I graduated in May, with a four year degree commissioned as lieutenant and then I didn't have a report date to my first base until November. So I have like six months, where I'm not getting paid. I have no job. What is your casual? Yeah, this I was like, a waitress. And this was one of my most fun jobs ever. I worked at an apple orchard as an apple. It's amazing. I got paid cash every morning. Just don't tell the IRS. Yeah, like secret. Like I'm a lieutenant in the Air Force about to go to flight training. And I'm picking apples and getting like stung by bees and stuff and then in the fall, or their haunted house and like run their Hanukkah, or a and like shoot pumpkins on this giant slip. It was such a fun path. I loved it. It was like a nice break before flight training, which is pretty stressful. Started. Yeah, I could imagine. Wow, an apple picker about you guys had some bomb apple cider, though. It was good. Apples now I'm an apple snob. What's the best Honeycrisp? Any crisper? We're at that for sure. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I spend about 10 minutes at the grocery store picking up every single one like, Nope, that's not the perfect one. Of course, it has to be like at the bottom where you're like playing Jenga, you know, with the apples. Like, I want that one down there. It's gonna start an avalanche of apples and Apple avalanche. So you'd be the one that it would hate when I was working at stater brothers yesterday section. Yeah. That'd be like that go right there. Should be banned for life. Yeah, it was a great summer. It's the summer I'll remember forever, for sure. So I have no regrets on that decision for six months. Now, where was the apple picking? Like what state did you? So some Wisconsin? Oh, gotcha. It was in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, if anyone's familiar, but it was beautiful. In the summer. It was great. I'm a big fan of outdoors. So I just like being outside. It was nice. Nice. There was a job I was looking at. And it was called Devil's Lake on North Dakota. And there's a Devil's Lake, Wisconsin. And when I looked it up online, I was like, Why does nobody ever want to get this job? And when I put it up on Google, I just put Devil's Lake in an auto populated Wisconsin. And I was like, man, that looks beautiful. What? What is the job? Yeah. And I'm like starting regular Ready to apply and I'm telling my friends a dude, there's like $15,000 bonus, you know, if you just sign up, they give you a $15,000 stipend, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, no hotter like I, this time actually put North Dakota in it. And there was like a half submerge truck and a dead tree and a lake, you know. I was like, oh my god get started seeing why nobody did that job. And I'm like, I don't mean to offend everybody Devil's Lake, North Dakota. But it sounds to Google pigs. Like, could you imagine if a town just put up some stock images of just this beautiful area. And the EMS companies are like, Yeah, we have pilot housing, the 14 and 14 schedule. Yeah, sign up with us, you get a $20,000 bonus. And then they just put all these beautiful images are like, well, we never said that. That was actually your bass. Catfish, me Ms. Bass catfish. Typically, with these helicopter EMS jobs, the ones that give you the most benefits are usually the ones that are in the middle of nowhere that nobody else wants to go to. And the lowest desire less desirable locations, typically. So the more benefits and like awesome things that they're offering, you know, it's in the middle of nowhere, nobody wants to go. Trying to reel you in, give you more money. Crazy, so it's never worth it. Yeah. You know, a lot of people just go ahead and do those jobs for a year or so. And then they can write, you know, transfer within the company to a better base, or I have never worked that part of EMS, but just from what I've heard from friends that are in it right now. And how was flight school? Did you pick it up right away? Were you sick, total badass student right off the cuff or it was one of my favorite years, I think in my career, but one of the hardest. I think a lot of people feel that way when they're done with it. I went into flying for the Air Force with zero civilian time. I had written in a Cessna once. Like I was like, here, you can fly for a second to a term that was like, Okay, that was like my flight experience outside of being a passenger on a commercial airline. So there's intro, or initial flight screening, which is like a one month program out in Pueblo, Colorado, you learned to fly the da 20. That was probably the hardest course I did in the airforce. Even though the contents not that hard when you look at it, the big spectrum of learning to fly the F 16. And becoming an instructor in that. But coming from no technical or mechanical background and no flight time, it was just like trying to drink from a fire hose. I'm trying to learn the systems of this aircraft. I don't understand how oil system works. I don't understand aerodynamics. Like it's all new. Not to mention, like trying to learn to talk on the radio, just all all the things. Yeah. So that felt like an uphill battle. And there it was super stressful, there's frozen in time in the day, I would stay up super late, just sitting in the little simulator, practicing my ground up writing out every radio call, I was gonna make practicing it so that I didn't push the button and turn my brain off like everyone does, flying. And then once I, I felt like I was about to wash out the entire time. But when I left the day, I'm leaving, I sent something about that to one of my instructors. And he's like, he did really well. And I was like, Wait, but this entire time, I felt like I was just barely keeping my head above water. I honestly thought that I might be out of my league. And I might not be in the right career for a while during that program. I was like, I might not be able to do this. And then I got to actual undergraduate pilot training for a year long program in Columbus, Mississippi. And it started off with all the academics and lots of taking tests and learning in the simulator. And I've just always been a good test taker. And I was a really good student. Growing up, my parents really emphasize that and how important it was. So I think I had good, like time management skills and study habits already. So I just did really well on the academic portion. And I think that kind of got me ahead of the power curve. So when we did start flying, it was not as hard of a transition as it was for some other people who struggled with that first phase. And I I did well all through pilot training, I didn't really have any point where I was like this phase is especially hard compared to others and I think I'm gonna fail out or anything like that, which I wouldn't say is the norm. I think it's a tough program. It's kind of a steep learning curve. And I just got lucky that I had that foundation of good habits and you know is good at memorizing things because there's A lot of that. And then I did get airsick. And the left hand right hand just came pretty quickly for me. And I actually found the follow on training learning to fly the F 16. A lot harder than I did the year of undergraduate pilot training. How big are your classes? When you're doing the training? Yeah. So I think for pilot training, I believe we had like 25 people in our class. And then when I went off to the B course, which is the f 16, specific training out in Phoenix that we give our space. I think we had 80 People in our class. Oh, wow. That's pretty big. Yeah, pretty big thing. Did you know that you wanted to fly the F 16? Was that? Initially the bird? You really Yes, that's what I want to go for when you're going through training. So partway through the ROTC program, we went and did a base visit went down to Tyndall in Florida. And I saw some FFTs flying and that was like my first exposure to fighter aircraft. And that was when I was like, Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. Like, you could see the afterburner, you could like feel it vibrating in your chest. It was a visceral reaction. I was like, Holy crap, I want to do that. So that was kind of the point where I was like, I want to fly fighters. And then through pilot training, I'm just kind of learning more about what the different mission sets were. And there are a few instructors there from various airframes and talking to them. And honestly, right up until we submitted our dream sheet where you get to list all your preferences of aircraft, I went back and forth between the A 10 and F 16. I was just like, I want both of these, Which one, which one. And I ended up putting up suits in first, I wanted to fly fast and the aerobatic and all of that, but the 810 has a really cool mission. So that's why I was kind of hung up on that for a while. But I would have been happy with either one. He tends my favorite. I love the 810 Werehog. Yeah, that probably be the plane, I would fly. If I was in the Air Force. I mean, it's pretty cool. Funny story about that, I met my husband on Bumble. The first year I was on the team like right after I moved to Vegas. And I don't know if you're familiar with Bumble, but yet the woman has to make the first the woman has to make the first move. So you have to like I forget exactly how it works. You have to like like, swipe right swipe, whatever the one that says yes, I like this person. And then you have a certain amount of time to talk to them. And I had like clicked on my husband's profile. And I was like, yeah, and then I saw his profile picture. And I was like, he's really good looking like I'm kind of intimidated. Should I message him? Should I not? And there's like this little extend thing that they can use, and he extended and I was like, Well, I guess he must actually be interested. So then I sent him a message and I've zero idea what I said something generic and dumb. And he in my profile, I said I was a pilot Air Force, but say what I flew, and he responded, he was like, Oh, you're on the air force. What do you fly, and I was like f 16. And he is just like his second message to me ever. It was like, that's cool. But I really prefer the A 10. Refreshing because it got really old, like trying to date and being a female fighter pilot. And people just be like, all I want to talk about is your job. It's so cool. Like, I was a little kid and I just loved fighter planes. And I was like, bro, like, or mountain air show right now. I'm like, Yeah, we just have a normal conversation. Turns out he was in the Marines in Fallujah. So he has a special place in his heart for a chance. But yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, I was I've been off and on Bumble, you know. And you're right. It's like the only thing that guys ever want to talk about it. As soon as the first thing that they say to me is when do we get to ride in your helicopter? Like, just go away? And so I did a little experiment, because there was a good period of time, that I wasn't really getting any hits. I'm like, what's going on? Like, Why does nobody like me, I don't understand. And I switched my occupation. I was like, you know, I'm just gonna do a little social experiment here. And I changed it from helicopter pilot to, like, Director of my nonprofit, and I took off all the pictures of me flying and I just put cute pictures on there. Just, you know, me in normal, everyday life, whatever. And overnight, I had, like 30 hits. And I was like, wow, but I changed it back. So I was like, you know, what, if they you know, the person I'm supposed to be with, if they have a problem with me being a pilot and feel intimidated by that, and they're just not the person that's supposed to be with? Exactly, I would say you're probably gonna get a lot of quantity but not quality if you just take it off of there because I think that's a good litmus test for whether people are going to be supportive of someone that's like, kicking ass just as much or more than there. So you pick the absence 16 Super Adobe, you know, at our event the other day, we had the Air Force, they brought out their virtual reality of 16 flight simulator. They're like, do you want to try it out? I'm like, Yeah, but I'm really nervous because if I do really poorly on this, I'm like that I did so. Well, I also was getting kind of sick. My stomach was kind of like, oh, even just just being in the simulator. But but it was super cool because you get to fly through this canyon. And you get to shoot at targets and you kind of follow the leader and you go through different hoops and I don't know if you've ever played on the sim that you guys have I have it I were I always see it out there. But we're always like one thing to the next that show so I never get to go over there. But I can I we have a VR headset that we use for training and it makes me feel emotions that even though I've never gotten a ticket in the jet, yeah. Yeah, the guys are like, So how'd you do? And I'm like, don't look at my stats. I'm really busy. I'm like, I'm like, Oh, it was super cool. I'm putting on the event. Okay, gotta go. Nothing to see here like covering the scoreboard. Like, don't look over there. Like, you know, you're supposed to hit the targets. Did you try it? Huh? No, I didn't. Oh, man. Yeah, that's the thing. When you're putting on an event like a big event, it kind of feels like it's your wedding where you just plan six months for a big party for other people. But you don't get to take your time doing all the things that you even put together yourself. You just are being spread so thin. I didn't get to indulge in a lot of other stuff. I was just kind of working work in the event. Yeah. So there was this little girl she's nine years old. I don't know if you saw on my Instagram story. The little girl with the flight suit on? Oh, I did. Yeah. Yeah. She was so cute. So she comes up. I was like, how did you did you fly the flight simulators? And she's like, Yeah, but I don't like the Cessna. That's boring. I want to go fast. And it doesn't even go upside down. So she was I thought she was all about the F 16 flight simulator. And we have some videos of her flying it and she's killing it. And uh, yeah, she was like, Well, I'm nine, but I'm about to turn 16. So I'm gonna go to flight school. Yeah. Really, really cute. But amazing. There were some adorable kids there. I was like, Man, I wish me or Michelle was here. Oh, my God, I just like hit myself in the head with my microphone. Man, it'd be so cool. If Michelle was here, because he'd be such an inspiration for her. You came to my I was, I was bummed. Those events are super fun. And they've been really limited this season with a lot of shows kind of limiting their in person contact with the day like driving air shows. And it's just not the same as it was in 2019. Yeah, when there was a normal season. So I do miss those events. Because those little girl you can tell like the ones that already know exactly what they want to do. And they can't wait to tell you about it. Like little firecrackers and they come up like this one girl came up to me and she's like, I'm gonna take your job. Like I said, I was a shy kid, like, I would have been way too intimidated to walk up to a Thunderbird pilot, and just be like, what's up? I'm gonna do today, I would have been like the one cowering behind my mom's leg. Like, can you sign this? But I love it. Yeah, that's cool. I wish I it looked like it was a huge success for especially for it being the first one. Yeah, we got the whole event filled. So it worked out really, really well. Overall, very, very big success. And everyone's just asking about the next one and the next one. And, you know, why don't we do this again. And so hopefully, you know, the plan is to kind of start this program around the country and have an ambassador program where other people who are representatives of the nonprofit can put on these little aviation days, you know, smaller ones for the community kind of a thing and just getting kids there and getting them inspired to go into aviation sometime. Yeah, sure. We could do in Vegas to help you guys out with that. Did the controls get super hot inside those of sixteens up there at Nellis during the summertime? Do you guys put stuff over the panels and the controls to help out with that? I can imagine Yeah, so there's like leather covers like over the seat and the hood and stuff but everything gets so it? I mean, when it's like 110 to I think earlier this year, we were called like 117 and we're flying vocals like in the afternoon. I think that was like three o'clock you mean 3am Okay, cool. I'm down with that. But you like can't touch any any metal surface will no kidding. Burn you like the ladder will burn you the size of the jet. So we're trying to do like practice our show launch what we do in front of a crowd and That involves like us like rippling down the line as we drop into the seats, but until it's like your turn to drop, you're like holding yourself up on the rails, which are metal. And so you're just like, oh yeah, do you leave your helmet on the flightline? Yeah, it's sitting on the rail. And it's just, it's just heating up. And then I mean, we put all those on in order, and then we close the canopy and the Jets starting up, but it takes a couple minutes for everything to come online. And for the ACS, that blows the cold air cold, it's cold ish on the ground, it takes a couple minutes for that to get going. So that timeframe when it's 115 out, which means on the ramp, the tarmac with the Jets running, it's probably like 130. And you have a helmet on and the G suit and a flight suit and you're in a jet with the canopy closed, which acts as like a greenhouse. It Yeah, those few minutes are torture, I hate that part. You're just soaked in sweat for the rest of the flight. But once we get airborne, it works pretty well and it cools down in there, do you at least have a camo pack of water that you can drink while you're flying? Or do you just have to tough it out? Well, they're pretty short flights for dental practice really go through the gas so fast. So it's only like 45 minutes to an hour. So I'll have like an insulated bottle with ice and stuff in it that I'll leave with my crew chiefs on the ground. And if I have to like step to a spare aircraft or something, I'll just like chug some of it between ground ups. But I don't take anything in the jet because there's not really a good place to store it. And like going upside down and stuff. Everything has to be like really stowed away, or fly around the cockpit. So I know some of the guys in the diamond one through four. They aren't you know, flying inverted as much and they can kind of jam a water bottle in the cockpit somewhere. But for the soloists and myself in number six, we just do a lot of inverted fly with a little bit of negative g like aggressive rolls and stuff. And anything that's not really buttoned down, it's gonna be flying around the cockpit. I can imagine just you forget that you do have a lot of balls in the air. And you're doing your training. And also you just see a water bottle floating in front of you. Yeah. Dang it. No, they're my sunglasses. You see it on the GoPro as it gets uploaded to YouTube, you just see a floating water bottle. That has happened now with a water bottle. But I mean, it does happen. Occasionally you're buying something upside down, you're like, ah, that's where that's where it was founded. Let me let me grab that quick and try to find somewhere to stuff it. I was I don't know what they call is a G machine or you know, where you practice centrifuge? Yes. How's that torture device, it's the worst thing ever invented. I think it's bad because you're doing it as an initial training. So you don't really have exposure a lot to the G's that you're going to experience at the centrifuge. So it's kind of new, you do get used to them to some extent. And then everyone talks it up. Like, if you, you know, G lock during this, you're gonna pass through and get removed from the training pipeline. So then you're stressing out. And then it's just, it's artificial, right, you're at the end of this arm. And then when you stop, capsule tilts, and you get like tumble vertigo and your inner ear. So a lot of people throw up afterwards, which you don't get that legit. Like when you stop a lot of people like put their hand on the ceiling of the capsule, like tried to set up themselves because their inner ear is just tumbling. So that gets a lot of people but it's it's stressful. It's not fun. I'm glad I had to go twice. Initially when I went to the T 38, which is the fighter track of pilot training. It's a jet trainer. But I think we went up to seven G's on that profile. And then when I selected F 16 I had to go again and do the nine G profile. So I will happily never go back there. Did you get a video so I have a disc with it on there. But I just opened it recently because I was like oh I want to share these videos because it's like funny to look back on now. And for some reason it only has like the six G profile on it or uploaded my nine G stuff. So it's it's really pixelated bad quality you don't realize how much better video technology has gotten since like 2010 2011 So it's just not very good quality it's only 60s So I'm sure somewhere in some air force like database there's a video of my nine G profile but I do not have a copy of it I'm fortunate you make me sound like like nothing yeah Geez I want to get me out here I think for at the most you know doing the cat lawn but yeah that was that was it and I was messed up for for the whole day. I didn't do well doing the aerobatic stuff i I've tried I tried a couple of aerobatic flights, like maybe just get used to it, you know? And yeah, I threw up. I was like, how do people just do this all the time? And everyone's just saying, you just got to keep going, you got to keep doing keep doing it. Like I don't know if I want to keep I'm eating a piece of toast and I can't even hold it down. Yeah, it sucked. Which sucks, because I love doing aerobatic, like, I love the Act of, you know, flying upside inverted and doing loops. And I just so much fun. But yeah, for some reason, my body just does not appreciate it. Yeah, I think that's just kind of luck of the draw. Definitely pilot training. There's Alison and Phil and every class that really struggled with motion sickness. And they'll put them in the IV heard of the Barony chair where they spin you, and it just like messes up your inner ear. And so you, you do that, in physiology, when you're kind of like in the academic phase, it's this chair, and they'll just spin you in it. And it's like, got a barrier around it, you put your arms on, and then they'll stop it. And like you put your head up. And your eyes are just like going back and forth super fast. And it's still like desensitize you to the inner ear tumbling feeling that makes a lot of people sick. And luckily, I just never had issues with it. But there are some guys in my class who are up every flight and talk about grit, like in pilot training. It's a hard program to begin with. But one of the guys that was in the top of my class, he crushed it. He threw up like every flight for like the first four months or something. And I was like, wow, to just keep pushing. And he eventually got past it. But it was actually pretty impressive. Yeah, so I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about your training with the Thunderbirds, like your first experience of getting into the team. And do you all get high agric? I guess it's just whenever a spot opens up, they put someone new on? Or does a whole new team get hired all at once. He said, because it's a two year bullet. So do you get a fresh team every two years? Or is it kind of a rolling type of thing. So it's rolling. So there's some overlap. So you really need that continuity and experience to help train the new pilots as they come in. So about half of the officers are witching out each year. So let's see, when I applied we're hiring for boss. So the number one position, the number eight position, the solo and then one of the wingman, which was number three at the time. So there's one through six, or who flies in the actual demo, when you see the six shots flying. So usually, any time you'd go see the team, it's half of those pilots first year and a half second year. So there's some continuity there. So we actually just did a hiring cycle a couple months ago, you know, we put out the hiring message around Christmas time, January timeframe, everyone sort of it's their applications, and then go through those and we see who you want to bring out in person. And then they come on the road and get to see what an airshow weekend is like because the job is not for everyone. And so we want to give them some exposure to the behind the scenes what a weekend actually looks like for us before they are already hired. And they're like, Well, I hate this thing. Now I'm here for two years. So they'll come out and then we just get to kind of hang out and like it's no everyone's personalities, see who's a good fit with who we are together all the time. So you need to make sure there's not going to be personalities that are going to create a lot of conflict, because that can be a huge deal with being on the road all the time. And a lot of trust is required, obviously for what we do. So we go through that, then we do formal interviews with them as well. Put them on the spot, ask all the questions. That's the scary part. And then we hire from there. And it's like a whole person package. It's everything from their flying ability and their performance reports to letters written by their commanders, or just like calling around to people that we know that work with them currently and be like, yeah, what is this person like to hang out? With? What how are they in the jet? Like, just getting a feel for their personality? To them? Specifically, will their personality fit into the spot that's open? Like, would they make a good solo pilot? Or would they make a good diamond like wingman pilot, and all of that goes into it. And then you have to even look further down the road be like, Well, if we put them in the wing, then two years from now we're going to have a new Thunderbird one. And so that person is going to be the experienced person at that point training the new, like leader of the team, like you need a personality that can do that. And yeah, so there's a lot that goes into getting hired. And we announced the new hires a guess couple months ago now. And this is me being biased, but I'm super excited. There's another female pilot joining the team. So and I leave, there won't be like a five year gap like there was last time. So that's cool. So she'll be in the position to you know, really inspire those little girls which I'm glad they're gonna have someone they can look up to Once I'm no longer on the team, amazing, and how was it first finding information with the team and doing all these really close formation flights? Was it a little nerve wracking at first? And did you jump right into it? And you're like, Oh, I got this, or do you guys find an analogy? Do you go right into formation flying? Or do you do things in their simulator, you do a lot of chair flying from what I see, like on TV, but formation stuff, we do some basic stuff in the simulator to kind of develop the cross check of what you need to look at when different than in like a gray unit. But the simulator is not good for flying demo maneuvers. Because you don't get the GS, the stuff we do is just really aggressive with that and then trying to fly for engine in the simulator, you just can't see and feel like the changes that are so tiny that you need to. So we don't really have any sim rides that are part of our syllabus. So we kind of jump right into it. But for me as a solo, like I would go out with the lead. So at the time that was leaving, and I learned all my single ship maneuvers. So if you've ever seen the show, we do some single ship maneuvers to kind of showcase what the f 16 can really do. And that's all done by five or six. So I'll do like the max G, turn and I'll do other girls like FTP, and then go straight vertical up to 15,000 feet, like just a few seconds my favorite maneuver, it's super fun to fly. But really showcase the jet can do. So we learn the single ship stuff first, and everyone is terrible at all of them. When you start, it's just not the kind of flying that you've been doing previously in your career. As an F 16 pilot, you're really like a sensor operator, like the the left hand right hand of physically flying the jet is just an afterthought, it just becomes second nature. And you know, you're trying to figure out how to target air to air or you're in a wheel doing close air support, trying to like figure out how to run your targeting pod and talk to the guys on the ground and like monitor the situation there and deconflict from other aircraft that are stacked up in wheel with you over whatever the target is. And the physical flying is pretty easy. That's just second nature, it's not taking much of your concentration, it's everything else that's taking all your concentration. But then coming to the team, it's the complete opposite. Like, we don't do anything tactical. And it's all left hand right hand. So it takes a while to kind of transition to that. And like in that 16 Normally, we we never use the rudder airborne, like ever. But on the team, I'm full rudder deflection, many times throughout the flight. And we never fly in verbage, there's like no reason to and normally have stuff in your cockpit. It'd be flying all over, like we talked about. But on the team, I'm flying through it all the time. But I'm pulling out G's all the time. It's just takes a ton of repetition to get good at that stuff. And then the formation stuff, you start kind of in what we call a chase position. So a little bit further away and like from where you see us in the show, and you just start with like further and further bank turns. So with hurdles going to like 90 degrees, and then you do a full barrel roll. And eventually you'll do a full loop. And we'll just do them over and over and you just move it in tighter and tighter until you can finally like stay in formation. And then we eventually bring everyone together to be able to do that. But the formation flying is not a walk in the park. It's still hard, like if it's a bumpy day, or it's high density altitude, or whatever it is it. Yeah, I'm like working hard. Be real sweaty, tired by the end. It's a demo. Yeah, I would imagine. Wow. That's so crazy. I couldn't even imagine how close are you guys? Like really, when doing the diamond gets the closest during the past interview that they do is a four ship because it's four jets. And there's closest 18 inches apart? Wow. Yeah, why it's so that maneuver is real stable. And they've just worked really hard to get it tighter and tighter. And we have a pretty experienced team this year since we don't have anyone new. And so the team is real dialed in right now. So it's looking really good when we're all together. And number six and I are on the wings. We're three feet apart roughly. And you're constantly making corrections. Like I'm sure you've seen some of the cockpit footage that we put out on social media. Everyone thinks like when you watch it, all six of us would you be called the Delta, you watch the Delta loop or the Delta roll and people are like Wow, they look just like welded wing like they don't move at all. And then you see the perspective from the cockpit, especially on outriggers on the way on the ends, which is where I fly. And we're number six live on the other side and we are like constantly moving the throttle and constantly adjusting and bouncing all over the place but it's just such tiny amounts that it's not perceptible from the ground, but it's definitely perceptible to us. It's a eight you're constantly making corrections. That sounds so intense 18 inches it it's hard to kind of fathom how that works aerodynamically with the air foils being so close to each other and the air passing through It doesn't seem possible that that could happen, you know, just with the air, yeah, over the top of the wing, and the other wing being right on top of it. Yeah. So you can feel, you can feel the other jet there and boss, especially being out on the point with a wingman on each wing. If one person is closer than the other has delegate push that direction, like the guy on the left side is too close, he'll, it'll physically push the number one just right, you can feel that. Yep. And you have like an abort plan. where someone's, you know, feels that it's not stable anymore. Do you guys have a safe word where you all break off in different directions? Yeah, abort mission and then just separate from each other. It's called kind of not quite to that extreme, exploding. Cantaloupe is what we like joke about that. But there's not many situations where you'd react that aggressively. So there's like a board spread, where everyone would just like refer out. But usually, it's only one person experiencing whatever the thing is, like, if we go through some wind shear or something, the person you know, that's on the side that everyone's shifting towards, you can get like really tight, quickly. And you can honestly just give a tiny bit of rudder away and you're like moving away from them, and you're not going to hit each other. And honestly, the crowd can't even tell. Sometimes we have very traumatic moments for us, where we land and we're like, oh, my gosh, that loop was so sketchy. And then you we watch on the video, and we're like, Oh, it's great. Yeah, when else was experiencing the terror that I was in that like split second, when I got like, oh, we can get towards me or whatever it was. So yeah, it's usually a small correction that you just have to react to, they do get bigger. When we're all six together, I fly off of number two, who's flying off of number one. So if number two has one of those moments, where he's like, oh, man, he's like, quick rider away, then I'm on the end of the whip, right. So my reaction has to be bigger than his and sometimes we'll get a bit out of the formation for a second. And it is noticeable to people on the ground, but we're pretty good at trying not to overreact and you know, moving as much as we need to, but not so much that it's like a moment of panic and the crowds like what is that jet doing? Yeah, they're probably like, man, they suck. Oh, yeah. Not Said no one ever. That's the social media comments right here on someone's like, oh, that person's wide, or someone coming? Or better pictures. I just take that as like a friendly rivalry. Be like, go Navy. Cool. Sure. Whatever. We work with the Blue Angels a decent amount, we just did a joint show with them. We've done a couple so we know all of them. And it's a friendly rivalry. There's, I feel like it's like talking about two football teams that are rivals, like there's always going to be the people that like this team in this house that we feel like this team. And that's totally fine. But the people that roll in with them being comments like you shouldn't be on the team, what kind of wide you are, and be like, go on there like eating chips in their mom's basement? Have you have you heard about this new augmented reality technology that they're coming out with their red six company, they're doing augmented reality for the cockpit to train fighter pilots. I haven't experienced in person I've heard about it. And we actually are trying to bring VR into our training as well, because and this is kind of the first hiring cycle that we're doing that where we actually have the VR headsets and we took GoPro footage from our shows, like 360 footage. And then we took HUD footage, and we paired them together. And we like sent them out to our new hires, so they can be at home before they even moved out to Vegas and start flying with the team. Cool. They can look at it and they can fly through a whole show in their position. Wow. So yeah, I mean, it's not going to replace the hands on flying, but still to like have that exposure and know what radio calls are happening when and like what the reference of the other jet actually looks like before you actually get in the cockpit and are starting to burn through all those flights and training season. I mean, it's huge to have that. That step ahead before they even show up. Wow, it's so cool. The direction things are going. Yeah, I mean, it's gonna just be that much safer. You know, that much cheaper for training. When people get a leg up like that. I'm gonna be a truck driver in about 10 years when everything's automated. Just like relax. I'm gonna be like, Oh, well, I guess Top Gun was right. I better get that truck driver's license. We were just talking about the other day. I mean, Vegas has really bad drivers, as I'm sure you've experienced. And I'm sure they're in LA and they're everywhere. But I was talking to the other solo pilot, and I was like, man, and people talk about like, flying cars in the future. Can you imagine if we put your average Joe Schmo driver in a three dimensional car, I was like, this will never happen, because it's not a technology limitation. It's a person limitation. It has to be fully automated crashing into each other all the time. I think it will be what would you say has been the most rewarding part of of what you do. And you've flown, you know, a ton of combat missions over and Afghanistan 163 combat hours. So and then now you fly for the Thunderbirds, what what I'm sure every aspect of your job has had its, you know, highs and lows. But for you what has been the most rewarding part of it? Yeah, it'd be tough to pick between a deployment and the inspiration part of being on the Thunderbirds, because those are both rewarding in very different ways. I think being on the Thunderbirds, especially for three years, and being a female pilot on the team is like a very visible position. And I have this opportunity to reach an impact so many girls and women, which is just a really cool role to be in. And I've already seen with having been here this long, some of their stories come full circle, like there was a girl that messaged me back when I first started the air show circuit in 2019. Saying that she was just going to pilot training and she just got a pilot slot she was from a small town had no, it was like it was me, you know, 10 years later, she had no flight time. And she was stressed out about going into this program that's super hard. And she just messaged me a few months ago, and she's like, Hey, I hadn't talked to her in two years. And she's like, Hey, I just wanted to follow up and let you know, how it played out. And she just dropped F 16. So she's gonna be joining our community. Wow, she's like, just so cool to hear. Because when she had first reached out, she's like, Do you have any advice and you know, I talked to her about how to manage time there. You know, it's the closest alligator to the boat and not to let it get overwhelming because it definitely can. And you know, everyone struggles at different points. And I've given her all this advice, and then she crushed it. So it was so cool. To just feel like I'm going to play like a tiny bit and helping her, you know, make her dream come true. So I think interactions like that, that I get to have in this job are so unique to any other position in the airforce. And that's what I love about it. And the schedule does get to be a grind sometimes and you're tired late in the season, and I definitely get exhausted by the constant, like demands of, of thunder burning, because I'm kind of introverted. So just like I was having to be on and smile and talk to people. And you know, sometimes you just want to be by yourself and eat your lunch. And there's always people demanding your time. But those interactions with kids are just, it's hard to describe when you can like talk to them. And you see that light bulb moment come on in their eyes, and they're like, well, like someone that looks like me is doing that, like the highest levels, I want to do that someday. So cool as pretty epic. Like just being a being a mentor is very, like, I don't know, I just said, It's hard to describe because being a mentor just means a lot to somebody like to me, I have a couple mentors in it, I can I can relate to what you're talking about. Just having that guidance, you know, and having somebody support you and tell you, Hey, this is what you need to do. This is how you can do it. And just don't give up and just keep grinding. And it's gonna happen, you know, like, just keep working hard. And sooner or later, something's gonna break for you. So I think that's pretty well, absolutely. Yeah. And it's been cool to, like social media has grown so much in that aspect. In the last few years that I've had, like all these personal interactions with people, they can shoot me a message and I can respond to them. And I think they are able to relate and see that we're not just like these robots in blue suits that are unrelatable. And like, that is an unattainable position. They see that we have families and that we have hobbies and that we're balancing all the things just like everyone else. And I think that's just a really cool impact to leave behind. When I leave the team. I hope that that will continue once I'm gone. Yeah, absolutely. Kind of humanizing the job a little bit, but you know, still maintaining this level of eliteness that, you know, people can look up to and aspire to. And like you said, especially young women, but even just women in general around the globe can look to you for as a source of inspiration. And I think I can speak for women around the globe when we say that we're so proud of you. And yeah, that's That's amazing, and congratulations on all Have your accomplishments and I was you know, I was kind of taken back. I don't even know how you and I started talking. But I just remember being so stoked. I'm like, oh my god, like the female Thunderbird is talking to me on Instagram. I left out one of your video like one of your voiceover videos. I think I just responded to how funny it was because they're so funny. I really appreciate that. It's not just super serious all the time. I think that's how the conversation. Got it. Yeah, I was like, Oh, she thinks I'm funny. Yeah, all right. All right. I'm just kidding. Well, you know, I'll tell you what, not everybody appreciates my comedy. My aviation comedy. Some people think, you know, I get I get some naysayers, you know, people that I've worked for in the past that didn't appreciate the humor. You know, anyways, but yeah, whatever. I get naysayers to yeah, there's no matter what job you're in. There's gonna be the trolls and the naysayers. Yeah, I should not read the comments. But sometimes I do and I get fired up. And sometimes. This one person I you know, I was looking back at one of my old videos, and there was just one comment that was like, oh my god, are you serious? You look so dumb. Why are you so stupid? How can you be okay with looking so stupid? Oh. Oh, I didn't even remember this comment must have blocked it out. It was pretty funny. No, I will say like, when I read the comment, I'll just like what I like what a troll but it was pretty is pretty funny. So mean, he was a pilot out there in Switzerland or something? I don't know. Yeah, it was a it's like about you're supposed to be neutral, bro. Funny, anti Diane, but that's okay. I'm cool with it. I was super stoked that that you interacted with me. Because you know, I hold you guys up there. Like, you know, like I see Thunderbirds, and you guys are the elite of the elite. And I felt really special that you said something. And now we're here. So here we are. Yeah, here we are. I've been really looking forward to this interview. So it's so cool to hear your story and the ups and downs of the job. And anybody out there who's wanting to go that path, they think you've kind of shown that it's an attainable thing and kind of paved the way for people to follow you follow in your footsteps if they want to do something like this. So that's really cool. Yeah, I hope so that's really the goal, you know, is to encourage people to chase whatever that dream is. Even if it's not joining the military or becoming a Thunderbird. I think it just pushes people to do that thing that they see is hard, and kind of scary. And there's a chance of failure, because the reward is definitely worth taking that chance. Oh, what's next for major Michelle? Karen. That's what I'm trying to figure out right now. So normally, the Thunderbirds is a two year gig, just because the schedule is pretty, pretty busy. And for career progression. And all the reasons it's only two years. But with COVID happening, all of us that were in our second year during last season, got asked to stay for a third year to kind of just give the teamwork experience since we only did like six air shows last year instead of the normal, like almost 40 different locations that we and so I'm now trying to figure out what's next. And honestly, the flying on this team is super fun. And it's been really cool. But like I said a little bit, I the best part of the job for me is just seeing that I can inspire other people and leave that impact. And so I'm trying to figure out how I can continue to do that after I leave the team because you usually go back to your gray unit squatter, and you'll go back to a combat unit and continue to fly either a 16th or whatever airframe you came from before you join the team. And that's an amazing job with really cool missions. I mean, I deployed doing doing those missions and it was super rewarding you work with like the highest caliber people around and it's it's really cool, but this has given me a little insight into some other things I can do and I'm just excited to see how I can kind of transition from the team and and keep doing that so I haven't nailed down exactly how it's gonna play out yet but it's definitely a work in progress. So we'll see what happens. Very cool. Yeah, well good luck. Yeah. And good luck with everything. And thank you like for coming on and yeah, you are an inspiration to Narita. That's a sap and your Bumble story was pretty fun. will say your your Marine has been is right with a 10. The 810s are a little closer to my inspiration So Bumble works for some people. Okay, that's good. That's good to know. I mean, we were both in our 30s. And this is our second marriage for both of us and I have a stepson, and he has a son who's nine and he's amazing at like, so you think it I think you get into your 30s Especially if you're already married or you have a child or baggage, however that looks. You're just like, man, like how do I meet quality people at this point, but I don't know Bumble success story. Maybe we just got lucky. But it's worked out really well for nabad. Major, majorly awesome woman in deed, what a cool story. I just love hearing pilot stories. Like everyone has such Oh, everyone has such a Could you tell? Everyone has such a unique journey? And hers is definitely unique for sure. Like going from ROTC to being an apple picker? Yeah, I know. Right. Right. And fly and flying go to fly Thunderbirds, also known as thunder board Monday. Sorry. Inside joke, little inside joke. But yeah, no, I'm so thrilled that she was able to get the permissions to come on this podcast and share her story. And hopefully this inspired anybody out there who is also dreaming of becoming a Thunderbird pilot and seeing what type of a path she was able to take and carve out for herself. So really, really awesome. Thank you so much, Michelle, for coming on the show. Alright, you guys, we are now to the end of the episode, where we're going to talk about external and internal pressures. We've all experienced them those voices inside of our head or that boss, or client that's telling us to rush and to get off the ground, make that flight happen, otherwise known as get their itis I know we've talked about this before in other podcasts. But how can we recognize when this is happening? How can we prevent it? When we rush that's when bad things happen. And I've personally experienced this sensation and managed to lie on myself a solid overspeed on a startup procedure that luckily didn't end up worse. But, you know, that's a really hard lesson to learn when all of the holes of the proverbial, you know, Swiss cheese lineup and a mistake gets made. So how do we protect ourselves? And how do we check our fellow pilots when we notice that we're going down this path. There are so many jobs in the helicopter world that inherently come with a lot of pressure to get off the ground fast. It could be newsgathering, helicopter air ambulance operations, or even an impatient client. We as pilots have to maintain a certain level of preparedness. Be calm when on duty. And here are our top three suggestions. For suggestions, we added one. Oh, that's right. Number one, staying current and proficient with the aircraft that you'll be operating. Sometimes we fly multiple platforms, and it can be a lot of information to retain. So it's important to have regular study habits. Know your limitations, emergency procedures, and performance. AP is too often that we get complacent. After we finish our annual checkride should not return to our study material. Remember, we need to cultivate good habits. Remove some of the heavy last minute preflighting. But even before getting to work, be proactively checking the weather TFRs talking to other pilots on duty to get maintenance updates for the aircraft are going to be flying. So try not to leave those items to right before your flight. Number three systematic checklist usage. Don't get lazy. Don't rush through it. Don't get complacent happens to everyone and super easy to fall into a habit of rushing through. When you have the procedures memorize actively remind yourself that you might have other distractions and you could miss something important. Flow verify verify are also known as flow verified squared. And if you sense that one thing after another is not going according to plan. You're feeling hectic and unprepared to take a flight take a moment to step back, breathe and slow down. And that's easier said than done sometimes, but we can also support each other. So if you have other pilots on duty with you create a safe space for you to be able to approach each other and communicate any concerns also help each other out two eyes are always better than one. And that concludes this episode. Thank you guys so much for listening in again. We apologize for the delay in episodes but we are back and ready to continue with season number two. Don't forget to LIKE subscribe. Leave us review on Apple podcasts. It really helps us out. We love you guys and fly safe out there. Bye. Adios Wow