Diving into the World of Investing ft. Marcia Dawood | EYB

Marcia Dawood is the author of Do Good While Doing Well, TEDx speaker, Podcast host, and an early-stage investor who serves on the Securities and Exchange Commission’s Small Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee. She is a venture partner with Mindshift Capital and the chair emeritus of the Angel Capital Association (ACA), a global professional society for angel investors. She is also an associate producer on the award-winning documentary Show Her the Money.

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Transcript

00:02.10

elevatemybrand

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Elevate Your Brand. I, of course, am your host, Laurel Mintz, and I am joined today by Marcia Dawood, who is an investor, author, and speaker. Marcia, I'm so excited to have you on my podcast today because I get to return the favor of just having been on your podcast. Thank you for joining us today.

00:21.94

Marcia 

Well thanks for having me.

00:24.00

elevatemybrand

I had such a good time chatting with you because you and I are so aligned on so many things, but for those who are unfamiliar with your work, share with us a little bit about your background, the book, the podcast, all things Marsha. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.

00:38.74

Marcia 

ah Sure. So 12 years ago in 2012, I was invited to an angel investing meeting. And my response was, what is angel investing? I had absolutely no idea what that meant. And I went to the first meeting, and I lived in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at the time. And I was completely fascinated at the entrepreneurs, the innovation, the things that were happening in my own backyard. I had been working in corporate America.

01:05.75

Marcia 

I kind of thought you just kept doing the same thing that you'd always done and get the same results, but think you're going to get different results kind of thing. And I was just absolutely fascinated and so drawn into this entrepreneurial ecosystem and realized that there is so much happening in every city, in every town, and by every type of entrepreneur. And I thought, wow, i don't nobody talks about this. Why don't more people know about this? So over the years, I became a member of the board of the Angel Capital Association, which is the um national association here in the US s for angel investors. And I then went on to chair the board. um And I just learned it a lot. I learned I had to live in a couple different cities. So I learned about different places. I lived in Silicon Valley, which was also very interesting, um as well as Texas, which there isn't as much as, of course, there's stuff going on in Austin. But you know there are other places in Texas that are really starved for deal flow. So how did we get those um investors kind of mobilized all kinds of different things over the years? And I thought, wow, this is really kind of a unique perspective. Yet I'm still talking to people pretty much on the regular that don't know that this even exists. It's not that they don't necessarily want to get involved. They just don't even think it's accessible to them. I would hear things like, well, it's just for rich people, right? It's just for the well connected and that's not me.

02:33.47

Marcia 

And I would say, well, actually, things have changed. And now you can get involved for you know much lower dollar amounts. You can get involved by using your time and being a mentor. There are so many things that entrepreneurs need. And they need help to grow these businesses. It's really a hard job. And they are doing so many amazing things. And we need to surround them with the right um you know with the rights resources. So what happened from there is I ended up doing a speech at TEDx Charlotte and people were like after they heard the speech because it was basically about doing good while doing well, using your money to be able to see the good that you want in the world and possibly getting a financial return at the same time.

03:15.63

Marcia 

And they said, wow, that that's great. I'm really interested. But you know can you explain more than what you can do in 11 minutes? So that's when the ah that's when the book you know kind of came to be. And along the way, in 2021 is when I started the podcast. Because I was seeing people who had podcasts about entrepreneurship and helping entrepreneurs to raise money, pitching, all those good things, building a business, which is fantastic.

03:34.13

elevatemybrand

Okay.

03:43.44

Marcia 

But i didn't really see anything that talked about well how do you be an investor or how do you become an investor who becomes an investor and how do you do that. So that's why i started the angel next door because i wanted people to see that it can really be anybody who can help these entrepreneurs. And now there are things like equity crowdfunding and investing using your philanthropic dollars and and ways that, first of all, we don't really even talk that much about angel investing in general, but now there's these nuances and these really cool ways that you can kind of get your feet where I get started.

04:09.85

elevatemybrand

Mm-hmm.

04:16.06

Marcia 

And that's what I really wanted to get out in the world, that kind of message.

04:20.77

elevatemybrand

It's such a great and important message. And actually, it's something that I have found and we've talked about on my very new journey, outwardly investing and outwardly raising through the Fabric Fund that we you know have just newly launched in the last few years. it has been such an amazing and wild journey to see how many women even some of the highest levels don't have access or have education around investing even an angel levels as well so what would you say um is the best starting point for someone who Wants to get involved obviously. Well, let's start with the book So let's talk about the book because I think that that is probably the end the podcast I think those are the two easiest access points for someone to start to educate and empower themselves around investing um and Learning about the different levels, but I'd love to understand your perspective of and where do it does someone start?

05:15.13

Marcia 

Yeah, so the podcast, I'm almost at 100 episodes. I know you're over 300 now, which is so cool. And I think once you once you start to get this backlog, you know that's when you can say, hey, you can actually go back and listen to you know an episode about this or an episode about that.

05:22.64

elevatemybrand

It's wild

05:31.33

Marcia 

So there are definitely episodes with people who look like you know everybody else who would be their investors and they tell about their journey. But I have had people come on and talk about equity crowdfunding, investing with thrill philanthropic dollars. And these are all experts who either have a platform. um Shortly, I'm going to be releasing an episode with the CEO of Republic. um So I've had the CEO of StartEngine on, a couple you know people who are experts in their field who can really talk about this. And that's one way that people can get started. um The other thing is in the book, I walk people through in a why-to sense, not so much a how-to sense.

06:06.47

elevatemybrand

Okay.

06:12.32

Marcia 

So if people want to find a book about you know term sheets and due diligence and stuff like that, there's lots of great books out there on that. My book is not like that. I think I might talk about due diligence on two pages. It really does not go into a lot of detail about that. It's more about why you would do it and how to get started. And in some cases I just tell people, hey, you don't have to start by making an investment. You could literally just Google, hey, where are the startup events that are happening in my area? and go and meet with some entrepreneurs. Just see what's going on. Find out if you live in a city or town that has a lot going on, or maybe you don't think there's a lot going on and there's actually more going on than you think. So I always tell people, start by just talking to people and learning about what's going on in your in your area and then also what is going on in the areas that you care about. So if you're very passionate about something, the climate, health care, um there's a certain disease that affected your family or something like that, start looking for the entrepreneurs that are really working to help make those changes because they are everywhere. Even for the most uncommon things, you'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs are trying to solve big problems.

07:26.19

elevatemybrand

I think that's such a great note. Um, I would also add just being in those rooms, right? Like I think I shared with you my own personal journey and my own like money journey. And I think just having conversations ah around money as women, um, is part of the, I think healing process as well. Like I think, you know, growing up, I didn't talk about money. That was not a conversation that my family had. And I think we need to break down a lot of those stigmas around the conversations around money as a starting point. Would you agree with that?

07:56.50

Marcia 

Oh, totally agree with that and so timely because I'm releasing a series actually this week that is about money and how you feel about money.

08:03.20

elevatemybrand

Yes.

08:07.07

Marcia 

And I talked to a couple of experts who wrote books related to that topic. And so I'm really fascinated with that as well because I'm thinking to myself, we never talked about this. And not only am I talking to people about angel investing and they don't really know about it, but even going back to talk about, well, you know would you invest any money in a private company? Do you invest money in the public markets? That isn't even something that we talk about. So we have to start these money conversations, especially with this transfer of wealth that's going to be happening in the next several years and how much money women are going to be controlling.

08:34.36

elevatemybrand

All right.

08:44.41

Marcia 

So I think it's a very important topic.

08:47.36

elevatemybrand

I totally agree. And I'll, I'll share my personal journey, which i I believe I shared with you, which is that like, I put myself in very uncomfortable rooms where I was, I mean, not anymore. I found this person in that room back in the day and I would just sit there and I would listen and I would take notes and I would hear these like words and I would have no idea what they meant. And then I would go home and I would Google them and I would say, oh, that's not that complicated. I understand what that means at a base level. And so I would really force myself to just have those uncomfortable conversations um and just listen. Right. So you can go into these rooms and there's so many more um opportunities now to be in investment groups and listen to women and men um about you know how to really vote with your dollars truly. And that's what investing is. I think it's really about taking you know, you're hard on money and making it work for you, right? um and And creating generational wealth with that wealth. I always say, you know, taking a W-2 home ain't gonna make you long-term wealth and you're not gonna retire on that earlier than you'd like to, right?

09:49.08

Marcia 

That's exactly right, yes.

09:50.61

elevatemybrand

Yeah.

09:50.96

Marcia 

And people need to be more comfortable with ah you know just raising their hand and saying, hey, I don't know what that term means. I remember going to the first couple angel investing meetings and they were throwing around terms like pre-money valuation and you know notes and stuff. like I was like, wait a minute, what what exactly are you talking about? ah So yeah, just being able to say, hey, I don't really know is perfectly fine.

10:08.33

elevatemybrand

Mm hmm.

10:13.07

elevatemybrand

Absolutely. We'll take a really quick break. We'll be right back.

10:23.33

elevatemybrand

Thanks for sticking with us, and if you're just joining us, chatting with Marcia Dawood, who is an investor, author, and speaker. Marcia, I always love our conversation, so transparent and honest. um Where can people find the book if they'd like to to read it and learn more?

10:39.58

Marcia 

Sure. So the book is currently on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, ah Bookshop dot.org, lots of places to find it. um The other thing though, is I did write a workbook. And I wasn't going to do that at first.

10:50.82

elevatemybrand

Oh.

10:52.41

Marcia 

And the book was actually already had gone to print, which is totally fine. But I started talking to people and they said, Hey, you know, ah This book idea sounds really great. Are there are a lot of like ways that are explained in the book about how we can get started? And there are. But then I started to realize I can take it a step further and actually add in some of the things that we just talked about related to money. So the whole first, it's a three-part workbook. The whole first part is about your relationship with money. It asks you a lot of questions. There's a lot of cool activities that you can do in order to think about, hey, how have I used my money in the past? And how might I want to use that in the future? And there's also some ways that you can have conversations with your family related to this. Then in part two, I found that for the most part, sometimes people think, well, oh, this sounds really cool. I'd love to be able to invest in and a startup company sounds neat. But then as soon as it gets to the point of actually maybe getting to the point of writing a check, they think, oh, dear, I don't really I don't really know what this whole thing looks like. I almost need to see companies more or or have a little bit better framework. So the whole part too is about pitches and how pitches are set up and how people evaluate a company. And then the third part is how do you actually get started and taking action? And one of the things which we talked about was like, just go find out what's going on in the local community. But I also have a fun exercise in there where they can make a mock portfolio on a crowdfunding site.

12:21.86

elevatemybrand

Cool.

12:22.17

Marcia 

So cool fun thing.

12:23.34

elevatemybrand

I love that.

12:24.53

Marcia 

Yeah.

12:24.81

elevatemybrand

I love that. I mean, I'm, I'm like a forever student. I did all this, you know, I'm JD, MBA went all the way through school. So I love homework. So I love a good workbook. That's so fun. um Okay, I have, a I guess it's kind of a loaded question. I don't know. But why do you think people have such um an emotional tie or maybe such a negative association with money.

12:48.13

elevatemybrand

Why do they put so much negative energy on wealth and money or energy in general? What is your take on that?

12:56.19

Marcia 

Jeez, that is such a good question.

12:57.66

elevatemybrand

I know, it's loaded.

12:58.63

Marcia 

Yes, definitely loaded. Well, I mean, think about over the years and going back like to our grandparents' generation before that even, it was kind of like keeping up with the Joneses. That was what I always heard when I was growing up. you know oh Not that, fortunately, my parents really weren't like that, but I i saw a lot of that when you know I went to school with the classmates I had and, you know oh, who has the nicer car? or Who does this? Or who's whose dad has a better job? I don't know you know. Just pick something. And that was kind of how people measured their own worth. And Fortunately, I think over the last, especially five to 10 years, we've seen so much more happening in mental health and self-care and taking care of yourself and you and your own mental health. And like, let's stop associating ourselves with objects or with money or with a title or with a position. And how can we make it so that we feel more comfortable in our own skin? And all of a sudden those exterior things don't matter as much.

14:02.40

elevatemybrand

So you think it's ah the baseline is a worthiness conversation and that it's a shifting narrative.

14:09.75

Marcia 

I think it could be because the thing that I'm but always fascinated by is when I talk to people about the word investing, just in general, not necessarily any specific type of investing, but just investing. that word it's That's a loaded word because they think to themselves, ooh, if I make an investment and I didn't do enough diligence or I didn't um make the right decision and it comes back that I made a bad decision then I'm going to look like a failure or I'm going to look like I didn't do enough to make it successful or I don't know what they're exactly thinking but it's along those lines of like bad. If I make a bad decision, things are bad.

14:47.14

elevatemybrand

Mm.

14:48.99

Marcia 

And, you know, sometimes, and we always say this in angel world, you know, you diversify, and that's why you can minimize that risk. And, you know, everybody has a different risk tolerance and risk reward tolerance. But for the most part, you're, you're trying to kind of get all of that out in the forefront, so that you're not thinking oh my gosh well if I lose this one investment my you know my entire portfolio is over and I you know I won't have money for my kids college or I mean don't do anything like that obviously. um You know I always tell people do not invest any more than you can afford to lose. But um you know just being able to have that association that investing could be investing time. It can be investing to the positive for positive change. And so if we can start to change the mindset around some of these words, then I think those emotional triggers will start to go away and then people will feel better about doing the things that they that could help to get them to see the changes that they want to see in the world.

15:49.63

elevatemybrand

That's so powerful. And that's why I think that the terminology and the title of the book that you've chosen, Doing Good and Doing Well, like that is so meaningful to me. And i I actually use that all the time when I pitch the fund, because that is the reason that I went down that path. Because I saw the 2% number in terms of lack of diversity in where the dollars went in venture land. But I was like, but I am also very clearly a capitalist. So I have to be able to do good and do well. So both sides of the table had to be there. So I use that term all the time. um I think it's it has been historically rather rare in venture land.

16:29.82

Marcia 

Yeah.

16:29.81

elevatemybrand

but I think that the the tides are shifting and a book like yours is clearly a step in the right direction. And I'm so, so glad that you wrote it. um What was the impetus behind like the starting point of the book? Was there like a moment where you were like, I have to get this on paper or was it just a natural next iteration of the work that you were already doing?

16:49.11

Marcia 

It was a next iteration, but I was very lucky. I found um ah a workshop led by A.J. Harper. um She has a book actually called Write a Must Read, and it is absolutely imperative that anybody who is even thinking about it right writing a book actually reads her book. But I was able to be in her workshop. It was a 14-week workshop, and it

17:08.83

elevatemybrand

Okay.

17:11.28

Marcia 

forced me to really start to think about like, who is my reader? What do they need to know? What kind of an outline would I want to have in the book? Because I don't know that I could have written a book like this without the guidelines that AJ has. And she does have it all in her book too. You don't have to go through her workshop. but um But it was really, really helpful. And then when I got to the point of saying, OK, I think this is the outline that I need, then it was it was pretty easy to write. And then I just went through. I found a hybrid publisher. And you know we went through the editing process. And it's really been an interesting journey to go through the whole publishing thing. There's a lot of things I had no idea.

17:50.90

elevatemybrand

So interesting. um Well, I want to focus a little bit on your angel investing journey. um One of the things you talked about was like not investing anything that you're not willing willing to lose. Can you share with us one of your greatest wins and one of your greatest losses?

18:07.63

Marcia 

Sure. um Yeah. In the angel world and the angel capital association, especially we always say, you know, you really don't want to invest more than maybe like five, 7% of your investable assets. So I always encourage people to make sure that they're, you know, making sure that they're taking care of their portfolio. But the very first two investments that I made, one was a big loss and another was a big win. And when I say big, I don't mean dollar wise, it was just like, oh my gosh, what was I thinking kind of thing. Again, it was because I was new and I didn't do what I say other people should do, which is wait, go talk to people, learn.

18:41.65

elevatemybrand

Yeah.

18:48.52

Marcia 

you know No, i was like I was one of those people like, hey, I'm here, squirrel, squirrel. I like that. I like that. I'm investing.

18:54.25

elevatemybrand

yeah

18:54.94

Marcia 

Here we go. Okay. Well, don't do that. um But I did that. And in the first investment, um the founder was very charismatic and was pitching and winning pitch competitions. And I was like, oh, and like a couple people, you know, a bunch of people were investing because they thought, oh, this is a great idea, la, la, la. And then one day he just decided that he didn't want to run the company anymore, and he needed to go get another job, so he left. And that was it. like on Also, like see nobody talked about it again.

19:20.83

elevatemybrand

Oh my God.

19:23.77

Marcia 

And he was gone. And like um ah the investors lost all their money. And I'm like, wait a minute. I didn't even know that was possible. Now, since then, I have never seen anything like that, but that was my first experience. However, at the same time, one of my other squirrel squirrel squirrel, I like this company thing.

19:34.54

elevatemybrand

Okay.

19:38.18

Marcia 

I invested in that company. Eight years later, the company did exit a great exit. We had a three X return on our money, which I will take that any day of the week. But the great news was it qualified under QSBS, which I have a whole podcast episode about that. um But what that means is because we held the stock for a certain amount of time and we checked all the boxes with the accountants, we did not have to pay capital gains tax on the gain. So we basically got the money tax free.

20:05.64

elevatemybrand

Wow.

20:08.58

elevatemybrand

Amazing.

20:09.77

Marcia 

That was a full episode, yes.

20:09.93

elevatemybrand

We could do a whole episode on that, I'm sure. um Incredible. Thank you for sharing and being so honest about wins and losses. I think both are equally as important. We're going to take one more quick break. We'll be right back.

20:28.28

elevatemybrand

Thanks for sticking with us, chatting with my friend Marcia um and her amazing book, Doing Good While Doing Well. I love the font choice. I love the like sunburst behind the book cover. I just think it's such a great, easy read for those who are looking to get into the investment world. And I love that you just shared wins and losses. um I think it's so important that we celebrate both because just like in life, it's not always uphill, right? And I think if you're going to get into the investment world, you have to be willing to take ah you know both sides of the table, both both the good and the bad, right?

21:06.51

Marcia 

Absolutely, yes.

21:08.54

elevatemybrand

um So you are very heavily involved in the angel associations. How do people get involved? what What are the things that they should do besides listening to the podcast, reading the book? If people are excited about investment land and getting involved in angel associations, and what would you say their first step should be?

21:26.25

Marcia 

Well, there's usually an angel group or nowadays there are a lot of angel funds. So that would be a fund like yours ah where people could invest and they don't have to put up as much money um per investment. So they would make one investment and it would get diversified over multiple companies. I am a huge, huge, huge fan of funds. you can do that. And I think that is something that is great for new investors. That takes the burden off of the investor and says, hey, here's a money manager and here's somebody who really knows about this space, like yourself, who is going to be making this decision so that the um so that the investor doesn't have to. So angel groups and angel funds exist now really all over the US, s really all over the world. um But you can find them either, you know, use an online search or the angelcapitalassociation.org, which is the ACA's website. um That has a whole list of all the angel groups in the US. So you can go there and look for that as well. getting involved with a group or a fund is a great way to learn. So I found that being a part of a group, that way, it was like a safe space. It was where I could ask questions. It was where I could be on a diligence team. And even if I never invested in the company myself, I would get to see what questions were being asked, what decision decisions were being made, and what kind of things did the company need to come back with in order for the investors to say yes. And to me, that was a great learning experience. So being a part of a group, I highly recommend as well.

22:58.59

elevatemybrand

It checks in the mail, Marcia.

23:01.72

elevatemybrand

I swear, guys, I did not ah ask her to say that, but I'm glad that you did.

23:07.42

elevatemybrand

I think it's important to note, like it there is something to be said for investing in a fund, whether it's mine or another one, because it's pooled capital, right? I think investing in one company, it's the most risky investment, right? If you invest in one company and that one company fails, you're up so well. That money's done, though. um But if you invest in a fund and it's pooled capital, you are hedging against some of those companies. failing, which they inevitably will. And frankly, I celebrate the failures. When my first company failed, I was like equally heartbroken and excited because I was like, oh, it's like a badge of honor that I had a failed ah fail point.

23:44.40

Marcia 

yeah

23:44.76

elevatemybrand

You know what I mean?

23:45.91

Marcia 

yeah yeah

23:48.01

elevatemybrand

Yeah, because you cause it's going to happen. like I think it's something like an 80% fill rate. I have 10 companies, eight are going to fail, one is going to be a three or four x, and one will typically be your Google that will carry your entire fund. like That's the return ratio like typically on average at a fund, something like that.

24:05.48

Marcia 

Yeah, I mean, I, I've heard different statistics, you know, but yes, the failure rate is quite high somewhere between out of 10, maybe 578 companies will not return all your money. um But then you'll get the one or two that are going to

24:17.88

elevatemybrand

yeah Totally.

24:21.72

Marcia 

help your portfolio to grow. I think in the book I actually say something about 10 is probably not where you want to be. You really want to be closer to 30. So that's why over time I would say people should invest in multiple funds. I i had to change my accountant because I was in i invested in fundns ah some funds and now I was getting a lot of K-1s and and not my accountant um was like, what do I do with all So I was like, I got to find somebody who's a little, yeah, a little more.

24:50.14

elevatemybrand

It does change. More sophisticated. Yep. It happens. I think that's a good tip, Marsha. If you're going to be investing, you also have to think about who your vendors are around you that can support um your investment approach from a personal tax perspective too and a business tax perspective. It does change.

25:07.85

Marcia 

Exactly.

25:08.44

elevatemybrand

It does change things.

25:08.99

Marcia 

It does. Does this change?

25:10.19

elevatemybrand

Good problems to have, though. Good problems to have.

25:11.82

Marcia 

Yes. Good problems to have. Good problems to have.

25:14.86

elevatemybrand

um In the last few minutes that we have left, I always like to shift the focus and ask some personal questions. People can get to know you a little bit as a human. So this is what we call our quick fire. Are you ready?

25:26.03

Marcia 

Ready?

25:27.26

elevatemybrand

All right, first question is, what was your favorite subject in school?

25:32.20

Marcia 

Oh, definitely math. i And you know what?

25:34.07

elevatemybrand

Oh, yeah.

25:35.10

Marcia 

I'll tell you a funny quick story. um When I was writing the book, I had to put, ah I put a cover on my computer that says left brain, right brain, so that I would remember to use my right brain because I needed that. to in order to write the book because I had to be more creative. And I am such an analytical person. And I would have just written the book like, and then you do this, and then you do that. Goodbye. Like that would have been the book. But you know, and it's, it's much better than that, because I had a lot of help. ah math

26:10.35

elevatemybrand

um i Yeah, that would definitely not have been my choice, but I can see why that would be good for you um and helpful from an angel investment standpoint. um Next question is, what was the last concert or show that you buck went to?

26:25.58

Marcia 

Oh, well, we have season tickets to the Broadway series here in, I live in Charlotte now, we used to go a lot when we lived in New York City too, but we are big ah show tunes people.

26:37.95

elevatemybrand

Oh, that's fun.

26:39.50

elevatemybrand

um How do you deal with stress?

26:44.73

Marcia 

Yoga, huge yoga fan, then a yoga, a Yogini as I call it, in my license plate even is Yogini. Um which is a female yogi, of course. And ah yeah, I've been doing yoga since very early 2000s.

26:55.87

elevatemybrand

Oh, same. What um what style of yoga?

27:03.33

Marcia 

So I learned on Iyengar, but then I kind of like it all. So now I do all kinds of things. But Bikram, I was big into Bikram before the pandemic and then everything shut down.

27:10.36

elevatemybrand

Okay. Same. Same. Yes, I love a hot yoga practice into that.

27:17.08

Marcia 

Yeah. Yes.

27:18.32

elevatemybrand

um What is your biggest pet peeve?

27:22.28

Marcia 

Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Let's see, there's so there can be so many sometimes. I think it's more when when people are passive aggressive, that to me is just to, you know, just say, say what you want to say, and don't beat around the push about it.

27:31.16

elevatemybrand

Hmm.

27:40.38

elevatemybrand

Totally agree.

27:41.42

Marcia 

Yeah.

27:42.10

elevatemybrand

Yeah, I love that one. um What was the last thing that made you cry?

27:48.90

Marcia 

Somebody recently, a friend of mine, had a death in the family, and it reminded me of six years ago when my mom passed. And so we had a little little cry together about it.

27:58.83

elevatemybrand

Oh, sweet. um Last question is, what is your favorite word and why? And this can be a word that's had Real meaning to you over time or something that just pops into your head for the purpose of this conversation.

28:15.57

Marcia 

Hmm.

28:19.24

Marcia 

resilience.

28:20.35

elevatemybrand

And what does that mean to you?

28:24.23

Marcia 

Well, I think that in order for anyone to either help an entrepreneur, for entrepreneurs to be able to grow their companies, for us to see the innovations that we want to see in the world, there has to be resilience because there's going to be those times that you're just going to get knocked down or you're going to have losses like we were talking about. So how can we help to make it so that no matter what happens, we just get back up again?

28:54.19

elevatemybrand

Yeah, I think there's like a quote. It's like, it doesn't matter how many times you get knocked down. It's about how many times you get back up. Something like that, right?

29:00.64

Marcia 

That's exactly right.

29:01.97

elevatemybrand

Yeah. yeah I think you learned that more the older and hopefully wiser you get, right?

29:05.32

Marcia 

Yes. Right.

29:07.75

elevatemybrand

I'm like, ah yeah, gotta get up again. It's time to get up again. Well, this has been an absolute pleasure. If you wouldn't mind wrapping us up with some final words of wisdom.

29:19.20

Marcia 

Sure. Well, we're not going to see the changes that we want to see in the world unless we start backing the founders who are creating those changes. And that means that we need to find the funders who look like those founders, and we need to be able to get everyone in the game helping to back these innovations we want to see in the world.

29:42.62

elevatemybrand

I love that. Marcia, you are just such a joy. I'm so grateful that we are connected and that you are really on this path of bringing others along with us in this founder and funder journey. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today.

29:58.95

Marcia 

Well, thank you so much for having me.

30:01.02

elevatemybrand

And thanks to everyone who tuned in. Stay tuned for more from Elevate Your Brand coming up next.