Episode 71
Follow The Host
Embracing Expat Life and Global Entrepreneurship
Ever fancied embarking upon a journey across the globe, right from the comfort of your living room? Our conversation with Jason Moore, the founder of Zero to Travel, will surely quench your wanderlust. Together, we traverse Jason's intriguing life as an expat in Norway and his inspiring entrepreneurial journey. The podcast is not merely about trotting the globe or running a business; it's about understanding different cultures, celebrating shared experiences, and the absolute joy of bringing your passion to life.
Do you feel the thrill of launching a new project? Sharing insights from his first-hand experience, Jason offers invaluable tips on how to launch your venture like a pro. We discuss the nuances of Scandinavian culture, including the fascinating concept of Friluftsliv - the Norwegian lifestyle of spending much of one's life outdoors. We also delve into the unique baby-stroller culture found in Denmark and Norway. Moreover, Jason recounts the challenges of doing business overseas, sharing his adventures in software development.
Lastly, we delve into the practical aspects of entrepreneurship. From the importance of researching tax regulations to managing business expenses and understanding currency exchange rates - Jason has got it all covered. By the end of our conversation, you'll be brimming with the motivation to explore new paths, take risks, and maybe even embrace a bit of the Friluftsliv. So, buckle up for a wildly insightful and eye-opening journey that is sure to leave you yearning for more!
Topics of Discussion
Jason’s Resources
Podcast Episode: Top 5 Reasons For “Slomading” + The Benefits Of Boredom With Tim Marting From Citizen Remote
About The Show
Thoughts of a Random (Citizen Remote Podcast) is a podcast oriented around open ideas, entrepreneurship, travel, investing, politics, philosophy, and an odd take on history. Together with Toarc United & Citizen Remote we talk with thought leaders from all around the world to stir the innovative mind. This podcast specifically talks about the importance of having an international perspective, the ins and outs of the business world, the entrepreneurial life, the digital nomad life, investing and ways to enjoy life in the new age.
Businesses worldwide have very quickly oriented themselves around freelancing, digital nomads, remote workers, and diluting borders. If you'd like to find out how you can benefit on an individual or entrepreneurial level from that change, this podcast is for you & Citizen Remote can help.
If you’re a startup, needing to find useful tools, wanting to build custom software or generally struggling with the next steps you should be taking to optimize your companies bottom&
Episode 71
Follow The Host
Embracing Expat Life and Global Entrepreneurship
Ever fancied embarking upon a journey across the globe, right from the comfort of your living room? Our conversation with Jason Moore, the founder of Zero to Travel, will surely quench your wanderlust. Together, we traverse Jason's intriguing life as an expat in Norway and his inspiring entrepreneurial journey. The podcast is not merely about trotting the globe or running a business; it's about understanding different cultures, celebrating shared experiences, and the absolute joy of bringing your passion to life.
Do you feel the thrill of launching a new project? Sharing insights from his first-hand experience, Jason offers invaluable tips on how to launch your venture like a pro. We discuss the nuances of Scandinavian culture, including the fascinating concept of Friluftsliv - the Norwegian lifestyle of spending much of one's life outdoors. We also delve into the unique baby-stroller culture found in Denmark and Norway. Moreover, Jason recounts the challenges of doing business overseas, sharing his adventures in software development.
Lastly, we delve into the practical aspects of entrepreneurship. From the importance of researching tax regulations to managing business expenses and understanding currency exchange rates - Jason has got it all covered. By the end of our conversation, you'll be brimming with the motivation to explore new paths, take risks, and maybe even embrace a bit of the Friluftsliv. So, buckle up for a wildly insightful and eye-opening journey that is sure to leave you yearning for more!
Topics of Discussion
Jason’s Resources
Podcast Episode: Top 5 Reasons For “Slomading” + The Benefits Of Boredom With Tim Marting From Citizen Remote
About The Show
Thoughts of a Random (Citizen Remote Podcast) is a podcast oriented around open ideas, entrepreneurship, travel, investing, politics, philosophy, and an odd take on history. Together with Toarc United & Citizen Remote we talk with thought leaders from all around the world to stir the innovative mind. This podcast specifically talks about the importance of having an international perspective, the ins and outs of the business world, the entrepreneurial life, the digital nomad life, investing and ways to enjoy life in the new age.
Businesses worldwide have very quickly oriented themselves around freelancing, digital nomads, remote workers, and diluting borders. If you'd like to find out how you can benefit on an individual or entrepreneurial level from that change, this podcast is for you & Citizen Remote can help.
If you’re a startup, needing to find useful tools, wanting to build custom software or generally struggling with the next steps you should be taking to optimize your companies bottom&
Speaking of hot tips, I'm joined today by Jason Moore, the founder of this Zero to Travel podcast. I'm super excited. He is, I think, one of the biggest travel podcasts out there. You've been in Washington Post, forbes, travel and Leisure, among many others 10 million downloads. You have an amazing podcast. I remember out of fantastic time on that podcast. When it comes to podcast posts, I put you up here and me, like you know, way down here. You have a lot more experience. So anyone who wants more of those kind of hot tips definitely check out the Zero to Travel podcast, jason. Thank you so much for coming on today, man. I'm really excited to have you and dive into what your background is, what life is like living in, you know, as an expat in Norway and then kind of your entrepreneurial journey there. So, yeah, thanks again, man, for coming on and joining us.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for the kind words, tim, thanks for having me, and yes, zero to Travel podcast, I will say, is really about helping people travel the world on their terms, no matter what their situation or experience. So, if you are into travel, we talk about all the topics from entrepreneurship, digital nomad to travel jobs and just interesting stories and how people made a transition from a sort of a regular, let's say, nine to five, status quo type lifestyle to a life built around travel. So all of these things and we're fortunate to have incredible guests like you. You were on the show at one point so we can link up to that. If people want to hear the us flip flop and I do want to get this out of the way, tim right now I'm a filled off Eagles fan, your Kansas City Chiefs fan. Thank you for bringing it.
Speaker 2:So after we connected on the podcast, we've been in touch and we've been like teasing each other. And then our teams played in the Super Bowl and you won, so congratulations. Okay, yeah, I wasn't sorry, I got out of the way. That was very smart of me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it was great too, because when we had recorded that that was mid season, so that was way before the Super Bowl, yeah, and we had kind of just reached out and met. And then we figured out we were fans and I don't know any Eagles fans besides you and the fact that I was an expo over here in Europe. You know, the other two founders of Citizen Remote are one. Well, once from New York, he hasn't really watched football. The other, south Carolina or North Carolina he'll kill me if I screw that up and the Panthers, they're just not that great First overall pick. So it was great to have that competition between us. And also when you're over here, you know, chiefs, I've never been in the US while we've been at a Super Bowl. I've always been Australia previously, now here for the first two, and so it was nice to have that experience, because you get so removed for so long and forget, like what that camaraderie is, like that competition, that fun kind of banter, and we had a few text exchanges before during a master.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, well, I need that too. You know, that's one of the things you miss as an expat is, like you said, the camaraderie and the. I mean I have American expat friends here, you know, and when we get together it's a reference every three minutes and all these things that we can't do with our Norwegian counterparts. But, yes, it's funny to be texting with you at, you know, two in the morning or whatever three in the morning when the Super Bowl was on here. Anyway, I know this isn't a sports podcast, we're not going to talk about this, but we are talking about common connections overseas and that it's nice when you connect with a. It's always great to meet locals, but it's it is nice to connect with your fellow country folk when you're people from your homeland when you're abroad it is yeah, and you don't realize how not funny you are to other cultures when you said you made a reference.
Speaker 2:I'm so funny. No, I'm kidding, I don't think I am.
Speaker 1:I make references and it's so funny how many of the things that I say day to day aren't really like. I guess coming from my own brain. They're coming from something I saw in a movie, whether I realized it or not, 10 years ago, and somebody else gets that same exact reference. And it's funny. Here you say that and then like what? And there's this like awkward pause. You're like oh yeah, that's not really funny, unless you understand where it's coming from.
Speaker 2:So Dude, I actually get excited, Like sometimes I say it just for my own personal pleasure, even though I know nobody's going to get it. Oh yeah, I just say it out loud anyway for myself. Isn't that weird? Oh yeah, and then another thing I'll do. That's really. It's always great when if I show a movie to my wife like Plain Strings and Automobiles is one of my all time favorite movies and when she sees it she's Norwegian. When she sees it and gets it and thinks it's funny and thinks it's great, and then I can reference it in moments and then she'll laugh and that feels good, like it's not. Like I'm not trying to like Americanize her or anything, but sometimes it's nice when you can share something you love. It's always nice when you can share something you love with somebody else and they can get enjoyment out of it and then you can joke about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, that's what this podcast is about. Right, it's about, like, it's what podcasting is about at the heart of it. It's about sharing good things with people, then providing value as much as you can.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and this one I hope we can do that today. This one's hopefully about a little bit of cultural understanding. I know we're, you know we're going to talk about Norway, even though we've just briefed on American culture a bit. So it's good, though, once you get traveling and out there. So I do want to dive into Norway. But I talk a lot about entrepreneurship on this podcast and having such a successful podcast yourself and being such a host. Can you just like walk us through what it takes and like that journey, because you've been doing it, you know, for quite a few years now and you've built, you know, good following. You've built a really successful and I mean I remember when the podcast that we did, I listened to it and the first like five minutes I was like, wow, this is very well produced. Like I was like, oh man, I got some work today. So can you just walk us through what that journey was like on a business lens for you, building such a successful brand?
Speaker 2:Thank you again for the kind words that. That really means a lot coming from you and the things I see that you've built in your life and as an entrepreneur. So it really means a lot. Man, where to start, I mean, are we going to treat this as sort of tips for podcasting specifically, or is it just you want me to try to kind of provide some general sort of value around entrepreneurship in general? I guess a couple things, and both sides, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd say a bit of both, because typically what I like to do, like you know, I have a specific kind of niche per episode for specific entrepreneurship. So, you know, for those who aren't really interested in podcasting specifically, maybe this episode is not really you know, skip a bit ahead, get to the Norway and then but that's kind of how I like to do it is, you know, educate people on a specific niche, which you're obviously very well versed in podcasting. So let's dive into that.
Speaker 2:But I hope people, everybody can keep listening, because there are some general, I think, entrepreneurial tips that come out of this, or I say I just say mindsets or yeah, we'll kind of see where it goes. Like I had, tim didn't send me a list of questions or anything. I don't have this prepped, we're just, we're just doing this, keeping it real. But when I launched the podcast and I think this goes for any launch and especially if you're new you want to take it seriously and that doesn't mean like have fun with it. I think there's a really helpful question that I sometimes ask myself in a moment of crisis or a moment of when I have a decision to make and you're making decisions all the time with your own business, right, that's like one of the things you just constantly have to do, and sometimes, when I get stuck, I'll ask myself the question what would a professional do here? And then the answer becomes quite evident. So that's why, early on, even though I hadn't made any money from the podcast or anything like that, if I was going to do it, I was going to commit to doing it on a regular basis. At the beginning it was every other week and then it went to every week not long afterwards, because I saw, well, this is getting traction and there's no other show like this and this is resonating. So you want to double down on the things that are working. But I brought an editor early on. You mentioned the production. That's not me. I'm not a sound guy. I have somebody who does that professionally for a living and he's been with me for 10 years now and you know it wasn't long after that. I brought somebody on to do all of the posting of the show notes and the sort of the back end stuff, because a professional would focus on creating the best content possible for the audience and curating the guests, and that's what I see my role as a podcaster. So I think that translates to many other businesses, of course, too.
Speaker 2:So don't be afraid to, even if you've never done it before, treat it like a professional would treat it, and that goes for anything you're launching, and I think that just kind of makes you level up your game too, like it doesn't mean be a perfectionist, because then you'll get stuck right, then you won't put anything out there, but you do the best you can with the resources you have and don't go into it halfway, like if you're going to start a podcast or a blog or whatever a giant community for digital nomads, like you guys have done, I mean, just go in and start it and figure out what your MVP is and then go in and do it and try to do it in a professional way and treat it like your profession, because it is, even if it's a side hustle, even if you're working full time. You should have the mindset of that, I believe. And then also, you know whether it's writing, making videos, maybe you're not a content creator, maybe you're a coder or whatever. The case is the idea of working on the craft for the pleasure of that and kind of paying attention to the craft of it. Because there are, for example, songwriters who have become so good at their craft, like they might not write hit songs every day, but they understand how to write a song, they understand how to manipulate chords and create feelings and all that stuff, and that's because they're talented musicians, but also because they've been working on their craft for so many years. And so your craft is coding or whatever it is branding.
Speaker 2:For me it's interviewing people, right. So it means that if I'm working on my craft, if I'm listening to other podcasts. I'm listening to it for enjoyment, but I'm also kind of listening to the interview style and the questions asked, and that doesn't mean it doesn't take the enjoyment out of it. For me it's just like a meta view of the thing that you're making, right? And when I play in a rock band here, so when I listen to rock music now, oftentimes I start listening to something. This morning after I dropped my kids off and I was like, oh, that's an interesting idea. I never thought he was playing this cool riff. And then he was ending it with like a couple strums with some space in between, and I'm like that's something I've never really tried before. I've never really implemented that in any of the songs I write, because I'm a songwriter, yeah, taking inspiration from other people and kind of just constantly sort of like figuring out new ways to do it, new ways to try it.
Speaker 2:I think that's, at least for me, an important part of all this process. And you're putting all that together. You also have to use tactical strategies. So if you're going to launch a book on Kindle, you're going to launch whatever. It's worth your time to spend a little time researching how to launch something, because I think launches are a huge part of businesses that sometimes it's just easier to hide behind the keyboard and be like, ok, I'm just going to like publish this thing, cool, I've like I have something on the Internet now and that's like a win. I'm not like belittling that, but and you might launch and fail and that's OK, but when you're going to put something out there, figure out a launch strategy Again.
Speaker 2:Now let me preface this with the fact that I didn't have an email list when I started. Everybody starts at zero, so when I started the zero to travel podcast, I had like 100 people on my list or something, but I knew some people that had email lists and I knew that if you at least at that time, the strategies have changed, I knew all of the sort of things you could do to give yourself the best chance of being featured by iTunes, and if they didn't feature me, it's out of my hands, but I could at least do all the things that I were under my control to have a chance to do that, and so that's what I recommend to somebody. Launching something is like take some time to do the research to figure out what are the things that you can do. We actually published a book about how sitting and I did all that research to figure out how do we launch something in a way where it can get to number one in the category. And you know, the podcast got featured on iTunes, thankfully, and the book went to number one in the category.
Speaker 2:And that wasn't because I'm some genius, it's because I did all the things that I could do under my control and it worked. But it might not have worked, and that would be okay too, because then I could rest at night saying, okay, well, I gave this like a good, we had a good launch strategy, we tried it. It didn't work, okay, let's move on. So if you're launching a software product and you're looking at, like product hunt or you know these places where you want to get featured, do some research and how do people get featured? How do you get featured on product hunt? How do you what gives you the best chance of doing that? And so make the launch of your thing part of your core strategy as well.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm totally riffing. No, no, no, it's good man, I'm just, I'm loving it. I'm digesting it all over here. One of the things you said at the beginning there was sticking to your strengths and kind of how you delegated and found someone. You know you're not the sound engineer.
Speaker 1:I took the opposite approach because I try to be as lean as can be.
Speaker 1:You know, I learned a lot about editing a podcast and doing all this and like diving into the weeds, but I also realized that was full time, like I had no time to do anything else. When you're organizing everything, editing everything, being the talent, if you will call it that I put air quotes on there. It's a lot of work in that's. I think part of the strategy at the very early stages is figuring out what it is that you're good at and then getting the team around you and maybe you can't pay them at the start, so maybe you can give them equity or something like. If you don't know how you want to do it, get them on board in one way or another, but figuring out how to delegate to other people's strengths as well, because otherwise you're going to be as I was and have very, very swiftly pivoted, losing my mind because I was like man, this is just grueling Like I lost kind of some of my interest or vigor I guess you can call it early on because it was exhausting and it wasn't very fruitful.
Speaker 2:So well, I mean that's a good point. I mean, I think, checking in with that kind of stuff and I understand that maybe in the beginning you want to do everything because you want to learn the process. There's something to that too. You learn the process and then, when you bring people on, you have a better understanding and how to do all that and everything. But you can pretty much tell with yourself what you like and what you don't like, and the sooner you can offload the things that you like. If those things you don't like are so strong you don't like them, you dislike them so much that like they're actually going to prevent you from continuing on, then you should probably get some help with them. But you know, we didn't talk about monetization, of course, and that's, you know, one of the things we should talk about with all of this, because as a business owner or somebody that's starting something, your ultimate responsibility if you're the CEO, the founder, whatever, maybe you bring somebody on to do this at some point, but you really have to figure out how to bring revenue in right Now.
Speaker 2:I got very lucky because do as I say, not as I do because when I launched the podcast it was very much a passion project. It was like I was nomadic for 10 years plus. I traveled all over the world for many, many years and I always loved helping people figure out how to do that for themselves if they wanted to do it, if that was something they wanted for their lives, and anytime anybody asked me when I was traveling like, oh, how do you do this? Or whatever, and I'd be like, oh, this is what you know, there's this and this and all these things you can do, and I would get really excited and I was just really passionate about helping people travel. So I basically kind of like you want to say the scratch your own itch entrepreneurial method. I was like, let me create the thing that I wish I had when I was starting out, with $20,000 of college debt and no clue on how to see the world and that's a whole other story but by just interviewing people that have done all these, because I have, like I'm one person with one life that has one set of experiences.
Speaker 2:But my thought was why. I love conversations. I love when I can go to the hostel and talk to the other travelers. I love to learn from other people. I always loved it and I actually this is kind of a random side note, but I met this gal in a bar one night in Brooklyn when I was on tour. I was the tour manager for a band and I went to have a beer at this bar by myself and I sat next to this gal. And it turns out she was the producer for Alice Cooper's radio show and she wrote a whole book on metal, like sort of hard rock and stuff, and so she had interviewed all these artists and that's kind of what she did. And I said I was like you know what? I want? To interview people. That sounds really cool.
Speaker 2:And I think it was the next day or the day after I dragged my sound guy out to like the pier in New York City and interviewed him on my iPhone, just to like do it. And then I just fell in love with this idea of interviewing people. And so combining these two things of oh, I get to have my own personal pleasure of like interviewing people and learning from them, but I also get to share it and then provide value to other people that just seemed like a really beautiful mix for me. And so that's how it all came together, because I could share everybody's individual journeys and then we could pull out those best lessons.
Speaker 2:And I might never done like the wolfing thing, like where you volunteer in organic farms, oh, but I can talk to somebody who's done it at 50 farms all over the world over three years and they can tell us about it and give us their best advice and then we can share that and it can just be another way that you could travel the world and kind of like you know, trying to build this a la carte menu where people can at least know of these options and then they can choose them if they're right for them in their life at that time or right for their personality fit or whatever. So it was. You can tell I've had too much coffee.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no problem at all.
Speaker 2:But yeah. So when I launched a podcast, it was out of that pure passion to help people travel the world. And I think it came through because it started getting downloads pretty fast and I was like, wow, like 300 people listen to this today. This is insane. You know, I can't believe this is happening. And then I just, you know, I was like this is I got something's happening here and we'll figure out the monetization part, and then so if you have some kind of platform, you can always build other things right, like even if that thing isn't the thing that you make money from. I think a lot of people get into podcasting and they think, well, I'm just going to start a podcast and I'm going to make all this money from sponsorships.
Speaker 1:Exactly. That's difficult, I can pay.
Speaker 2:Thankfully I'm knocking on wood I can pay myself from my sponsorships now, like that's where my salary comes from. So I do this full time. But that was only the last couple of years that it's been enough to kind of do that. I did make sponsorship money before, but I had other businesses. I had a community for Nomads, you did. I have like other projects.
Speaker 2:I launched with a business partner that we did different projects for over seven years together and I always looked at the podcast sponsorship as like sort of the icing on the cake, like that's great if I get 20, 30 grand from that this year, cool, like bonus money, you know. But I never wanted to count on it as my sole source of income. And you know, surprisingly travel is a small category in the podcast world even though it's a huge industry. It's kind of weird. So I still don't feel comfortable counting on it as my sole source of income, which is why I'm still looking at building other things. But I can build other things of value for that same audience that can be paid subscriptions or there's a lot of types of businesses you can offer.
Speaker 2:So sometimes you know the whole chicken and egg thing.
Speaker 2:It's like why should I start a podcast if I can't monetize it right away. There are ways we can talk about ways you can monetize it right away, so we can talk about that, but you know there's no guarantee it's going to like take off right away and it takes time to build something. Or you can look at it as like the long term game and I would always treat a podcast even though this is my main thing, like I said. But if you're starting it as a business and you already have a business you want to promote and you have a podcast associated with it, you don't want to think of your podcast as like this is another revenue stream. You want to think of it more as like this is a marketing arm for the business that I have and I can bring some people in to do this. So like what kind of how can I create value in a show that can stand on its own? I believe in standalone value but can also bring in new potential leads and customers and things.
Speaker 1:To what else I'm doing and what else.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly, and so I mean there's a lot that you said on that I want to mention, but I also want to kind of briefly talk about what. Hold on, I got to drink more coffee, tim. What else is that you're doing? Because you briefly talked about how we build these products. You know, half of entrepreneurship is fixing your own problem. It's like, well, this isn't out here, so I'm just going to build it and fix it. And so you said that you don't want to count on what you're doing full time podcasting while it does sustain you, like you are interested in building other products, and that's something that I'm interested in doing is being that expat.
Speaker 1:Being someone who I live in Spain, you know I know a bunch of expats here, entrepreneurial expats in Europe and abroad, who you don't have that same kind of regulatory environment as in the US. You don't necessarily know the laws, maybe you don't even speak the language very well, like if you can just talk about leveraging and you know not only your audience. But then what was it like? Or what is it like to be an entrepreneur in Norway? What are the difficulties of starting? You know a company and doing things like are all of your entities in the US, or are you actually like opening up into, just like, what is that mindset and how is it going for you?
Speaker 2:You know that whole process. It sucked.
Speaker 1:I think it sucks. It sucks. I'm not going to lie to you.
Speaker 2:But uh, no, listen, it sucks. No, I mean, all right, here's the thing. It sucks is one version of it, but the good news is there are more tools than ever in the history of mankind to do this, so don't let the challenges dissuade you from pursuing this path. So it started for me. Just to get the logistics question out of the way. It started for me, obviously, I lived in the States, so even though I was traveling and nomadic and all that stuff, my business was based in the States and you can travel around and still run a business from your home country at least. Again, I should practice this. I'm not like a tax attorney, I'm not a lawyer. Do your due diligence, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:This is from informational purposes only we have the disclaimer just in the title of this barcode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but when I moved abroad, then a whole set of questions. When I permanently moved to Norway, then a whole set of questions came up. And those are questions that are really hard to deal with. I mean, you could research all that stuff now if you know where you're moving and stuff, but you know lots happening. So I had to kind of tackle all those one by one in real time. It was kind of a messy situation. I started first.
Speaker 2:I started a company here and it really wasn't the right kind of company and I was paying my set like I was getting advice from all different places and this is not my expertise. I don't want to do the legal stuff like I don't really want to deal with it. I have people to do the tax thing. I don't want to deal with it. That doesn't mean I'm like financially illiterate. I believe in like educating yourself on personal finance and things like that. But the core logistics of it I wanted some help figuring that. What's the best way to do this to minimize the taxes? I don't want to pay double taxes, all this kind of stuff. And it was kind of a mess. At one point I had a phone call between a tax attorney in the US with a tax attorney here. That really sucked because those guys each charged like multiple hundreds of dollars an hour. So that one hour call probably cost me like six or seven hundred bucks.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 2:Just come on, can we figure this out? Long story short, I eventually opened a company here in Norway and closed my US company. But with the tools like wisecom I use for banking so I can keep like, I can bill clients and have them wire transfer money to my Norwegian business bank account, or I can have them send USD to my wise account where I pay all of my, so all of my business. A lot of the software companies are based in the States, so you kind of use my wise USD account to run all of the business expenses and then I usually, because this exchange rate has been so favorable, I try to get the wire transfer to just come directly to my Norwegian business account and even though that fluctuates, it kind of is what it is. It's like the cost of doing business overseas.
Speaker 2:Right, you can't look like, oh man, if they sent you know the payment next week, it went from you know nine to 10 on the exchange rate. You could just drive yourself crazy by kind of looking at that stuff all the time. You have to just kind of be at peace with. Well, this is kind of the path I've chosen. So exchange rates are going to fluctuate and things are going to happen.
Speaker 2:But, you know, try to use it to your advantage, of course, right. So if people pay me in USD, then I have control of when I transfer it, and now, on this day, the exchange rate is very favorable. So if I wanted to take a chunk of money from my wise account in USD and move it to my Norwegian bank, it would be a good time to do it because of the exchange rate. So you can think about it strategically in ways. But, like you know, a lot of this is moving money around. And then you know I work with freelancers that are based in the States but they like to travel too, so I pay them through WISE, and that's just kind of how it all works.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of added complexities too, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:It's not like you get the money.
Speaker 1:You pay the money. There's like, okay, I have, which currency am I taking in? And then there's the whole. You know British pound, that you always get a freelancer. You're like, why, why do you exist there, Like there's just a lot of it, yeah, I mean it's just stuff you kind of deal with.
Speaker 2:But again I just want to reiterate there are so many tools now that make this easier than ever and doable. I mean we're doing yeah. So like if and.
Speaker 1:We don't have a team around this. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shit over here.
Speaker 2:So I mean, if I can do it, you can do it, so yeah. So I mean I think that's, that's empowering. I think you just got to remember that okay. Yes, there are challenges, and some of them you can research them. But you're still probably going to come across some things Like, if you move to Spain, you probably research stuff, but then you still found out things you didn't know and then you had to adjust and change. And that's just listen, that's just what you kind of sign up for. When you go into business for yourself, you have to tackle problems and figure things out, and that's part of the, that's part of the deal.
Speaker 1:Yep, it definitely is. So, speaking kind of over here in Europe and what's going on with you and you know, you said you had a family earlier on and is your wife Norwegian? Yes, okay, so I'm assuming that's the main reason in which you're living in Norway right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we met in a hostel in Brazil.
Speaker 1:Oh nice, that's an exciting start.
Speaker 2:Yep, and it's funny because I was just talking with somebody in Brazil yesterday and I brought up the hostel and he knew all about he knew the hostel, he like knew it, he knew where it was and everything. And then we reconnected. I won't bore you with this romantic tale of romance, but we reconnected four years later and met up in New York and decided, oh wow, we still have a thing. And then we started dating and I was doing the digital nomad thing and kind of coming back and forth. And then we got to a point where, yeah, then I asked her to marry me and we got married. And then we found out.
Speaker 2:Then we traveled a bit more and then we found out we were having a child. And at that point we hadn't picked a place to live yet because we were still like I was kind of bouncing back and forth. And then when we found out we were having a kid, we had to pick a place to live. And then I remember that was a tough day in a lot of ways, but we were so it was so emotional man because we were so happy. But before that I was living in Colorado. I'm wearing a Colorado.
Speaker 1:I was going to mention that you had a Colorado hat on last conversation we had. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I traveled all over many places and I handpicked Colorado to live. After my nomad days I lived in Boulder. I loved it. I just loved the lifestyle there. I love the people, love the mountains, just love, love, love it. So you know, the day that we found out my wife was pregnant, we were thrilled and it was an emotional ride, but also it was kind of like a mourning period for me because I realized very quickly there was no. It's just, it's clearly a better option to raise kids in Norway.
Speaker 1:As opposed to Colorado? Yeah, just because. And elaborate. I already know the reasons, but elaborate for the listeners here. Why?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, it's not about getting political here.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely not, it's just the facts that the it's a safer society, the benefits of when you have a child here, like you get a year maternity slash paternity leave paid, so to have the child here and then to have paid time off for a year, basically, like my wife takes most of that and I took I don't think I actually I could take it then because of the cut. This was another type of company I had thing because I wasn't paying into the system so I couldn't take it but my wife could take it. So we still got the full amount. And I mean where do you get like a year off with your kid to just you know? And then the daycare is all subsidized here. So we usually pay between it's about 300 to $350 a month for the daycare, like full daycare with meals and stuff like that. I mean they pack a lunch but they also give them meals and snacks and they take them out on trips and stuff. And I mean you know that costs like three grand in the States.
Speaker 2:And so then you look at like you know people. It's funny because on the surface people think, well, norway is so expensive and it is. But then you start to think about your daily life and then, okay, I work for myself, so we have universal health care here, so I don't everything's covered. So if I went back to the States now, I'm paying $3,000 a month for daycare for one kid we're probably something around that we have to. I'm paying for insurance, probably for myself and my kids or maybe my whole family, because my wife probably couldn't get a job right away. It's probably a thousand or two thousand bucks a month. You know we're already at like four or five grand a month and I haven't even done anything yet. And you know, I know there's the other stuff, like you know. Okay, well, I can, I'll have to prepare my daughter for what an active shooter drill is, you know, when she goes to school there. It's just like there's no perfect society.
Speaker 2:But I would say, when you're making a decision on where to live and where to raise your kids, you're not. I love Colorado and I would probably move there tomorrow if I could, but at some points you don't make. When you're having children and that's the choice we made you don't make decisions based on what you want. You make the decision that's the best for the children, and I mean. But I still love my life here and I'm a citizen now and there's so many things I love about Norway. It doesn't mean I don't miss the states or don't miss Colorado and things like that, but it's also easy to romanticize a place and a period in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely you could look back and say you know one place where like, oh so I missed that so much. But Boulder has moved on, it's a different place. A lot of my friends have moved on like if I went back, it's not just like I would be dropped into the same kind of life, it will be a different kind of life you know, and half the people are wanting to be there, and you're like, oh well, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:So you know what?
Speaker 2:I even like it. Now I mean, yeah, probably that's how I feel about Australia.
Speaker 1:It's like well, if I went back there, would I like it. Yeah, yeah, I definitely would.
Speaker 2:No yeah, I mean so you have to make the best of where you are. Yeah, this is a beautiful country, beautiful people and a really, really nice place to live. We live right next to a beautiful forest and near a lake city's awesome Summertime so wonderful here. I just, I'm just grateful, man. It's just gratitude, you know.
Speaker 1:I wish I could speak a bit more about kind of Scandinavia in general, because it's always been a bucket list on mine. I have like heritage from there. If you do one of those DNA tests, it's like all Scandinavia, and so I had heard that like I'd always wanted to go to Sweden, for whatever reason. The reason Sweden was on my bucket list. But after talking to quite a few people it sounds like if you like the outdoors, which I love and prefer like Norway is the place to go and Kind of all of Scandinavia. If you want to go like do hike, to just be outside and all of these things, would you agree? Have you traveled much outside of Norway?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, certainly there's nice nature spots all over Scandinavia and when you have, you know these smaller populations, there's a lot of countryside and forests and really, really charming places. But if you were looking for like epic nature, norway is spectacular. I mean, you've seen the pictures, you see the fjords, you see, you know, when you're hiking and you're looking down at a few, you turn on one side You're looking at a fewer and you turn around you're looking at a glacier, and you know, if you want like sort of adventures, and then there's the Frihluvsliv, which is the Norwegian concept of basically like life in the outdoors, like getting. It's like sort of this social, cultural thing of being outside a lot and being in nature and that being a core value. And therefore that's why you know it's like a snowstorm and I'll look out and see my neighbors like with goggles on, literally, and like a Snowsuit, pedaling their bike to work. It's just like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:Well, it's crazy. So Peter the co-founder or the other founder of Citizen Remote, he was telling me in Denmark They'll literally have their babies and strollers and so like when they go into a cafe or whatever.
Speaker 2:even if it's like that, that's how it is here too.
Speaker 1:If it's like freezing outside, you know their babies warm up. They're not just a band there's, but they have these really great strollers and they'll have the babies take naps like, whether it's in their back patio or wherever they're at they sleep outside, outside.
Speaker 2:I know at first it was weird but then it quickly became normal and I'm sure they okay Like. I mean even. It's not just like that, I mean even at the daycare there is a line strollers outside in the winter. That's crazy and they're just in. They're in sleeping bags.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know, and really warm sleeping bags. Now, there's times when, if it gets too cold, if there's a certain temperature threshold, like at the daycare, if they're like, if it gets below this temperature, like we don't- which is like, well, like negative 40 at this point. That's, that's, you know that's rare.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like they're outside pretty much sleeping, and yeah, that was always. It took a little out of geese to like even I'd go up to visit my in-laws and then we would just like walk my daughter around she falls asleep in the stroller and then just leave her outside and go inside and wait till she wakes up from her nap. Oh, she's crying. All right, go outside and get her.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, and one of the things that he mentioned when we were talking about this was that you know They'll be outside of a cafe and they'll leave, like there'll just be babies outside of this restaurant, and I was like in the like maybe it's just my American heritage, but like I'm, like I would be the most paranoid father ever just like looking over my shoulder to be like who's stealing my baby right now? I don't think you just leave babies outside of restaurants in the US now.
Speaker 2:But I mean, of course that's not the, not the stealing of babies, but maybe it's happened. But uh, they people do loud, leave it at the cafe, but most times I'd say they're sitting at the wind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all around the corner.
Speaker 2:I would be at a cafe and and my daughter would sleep outside and I would be inside drinking coffee, but I would be at the window looking right at her. So it's not like somebody's off in the corner eating pizza and not even paying attention, because you also want to make sure you know when they wake up and stuff like that. So that is true, but I just kind of want to that's good to hear.
Speaker 1:That puts me at ease.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not like totally irresponsible kind of. Maybe there's some people that do that, but most people, I would say. The mother or the father is right there like basically you can take two steps out the door and get them.
Speaker 1:But it's also like the culture up up in kind of Scandinavia is a lot more like Trusting. I guess you can say maybe it's a modgenistic is probably the accurate. But it's very like you know, people are a lot more trusting of the neighbors that they don't know kind of thing, as opposed to yes, that is true. I think that's kind of a Europe feeling in general is is maybe it's in the country in which you're at specifically, but the community is a lot more collective, I think, as opposed to us. You're right.
Speaker 2:There's something with the trust thing, but also the trust is not just among the people, but it's the trust of the people in the government, and so that adds another dynamic to because Generally it seems like maybe they trust the government too much. But that's just the American and me talking, but it seems like both parties generally, to the best of their ability, try to do the right things for each other and people try to do the right things for each other and People believe the government's doing the best they can and a lot of it's based on sort of the honor system. And I don't want to like paint this perfect like there's crime here. Things happen, you know, it's like anywhere else, but it is pretty safe, I'd say, and there's that trust factor and that that is that does make a difference in the culture, in the day-to-day life, I feel, and people are, I'd say, consider it with each other. And and you see the debates, like the political debates on TV and it's so weird because they're just talking to each other.
Speaker 1:No way, I'll see you like a great way to debate you know, it's not like this sensational.
Speaker 2:Let me make like this perfect sound bite. You know moments gonna be great.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be huge.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of like a real conversation.
Speaker 2:Constructive it doesn't mean that people don't get heated or whatever, but it's yeah, it's constructive, it's it's open. Each is listening to each other. It's just different man. And then they're all you know on TV and they always have ongoing debates with on various issues and things like that, which is nice. It's not just when elections are happening. There are like debates of things going on and should we do this with the city? And politicians are debating, and so when people watch these things and they see it and it's all sort of there and it just feels a bit more open and kind of trusting. So, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:I think the trusting thing is nice, like you know. You say that you don't want to paint this picture of you know there's perfect society or anything, which obviously it's not, but you still feel like it's something that, no matter where you go and I think there's just around the world you feel the differences of those cultures when you go and live in them long term and it feels Very different. You know, we'll obviously live in in Spain. It's quite different than Kansas City, but I assume it's the same for you, like in.
Speaker 2:Nor it feels different, like day to day and the way people interact, as it would, you know, in Philadelphia, for example, like this Well, I mean to tie this back to entrepreneurship and again not getting Political here, but it's kind of funny when I see Americans arguing about universal health care, taking away their freedom or something. When you have a system where Somebody has to get a second job to have insurance or they have to, like, keep their corporate job because, like, insurance is too expensive and and it's like indentured servitude. Basically you're like I'm gonna work this for this company and in exchange they're gonna give me I'm gonna have you know if something happens, then I'm not gonna lose everything, and that's the exchange. And so like this idea of taking away freedom is, in my opinion, ridiculous. When I come to a place like that, live in a place like this where, hey, I don't have to worry about, like, my health care Okay, I'm not saying the system is perfect, but like I'm not gonna lose everything if I like put my job in.
Speaker 2:Crazy happen, like most people know somebody in their family that has cancer, for example. It's just like these things. You know where humans, things can happen and you know how much freedom that gives me to like create and to kind of take chances and be an entrepreneur. And I think it's funny because I don't think Norwegians actually realize like because they're very, very much. I'm saying generally speaking a lot of Norwegians are in the mindset of kind of like you know you get a state, you know You're working the stable job and they're like great job market. People like can keep their jobs. It's very hard to get fired from a job here. You know like they'll hold your job. If you go on maternity leave for a year or if, like, you have sick leave or something happens, like you're gone for three months, you can come back and have your job. It's like all very secure and that's just like very secure.
Speaker 2:So people, I think, value that and they and I get that because we as humans when not everybody's you know, to kind of deal with uncertainty is one of those things that it's like a muscle you grow as an entrepreneur like some people are born with it, like they'll live on the edge. You know I had to like being an entrepreneur like, help me, being a traveler, first, help me deal with uncertainty. And then the entrepreneur side. You know uncertainty of like how are you gonna get paid. You know, like, are you gonna make enough money, is this gonna work? You know all this stuff and traveling helped me with that and to deal with those situations later on. But I don't even think the people that are working these kind of that's, those secure jobs Realized how this society in some ways is like really built, can be built for entrepreneurs too, if you look at it the right way, because it's like there's so much of a safety net, I guess you have the social safety net with the health care.
Speaker 2:You have the social safety net with Knob, which is the they would be responsible for, like if you got hurt, and you would keep making your salary, you know, if you weren't at your job, or a portion of it, and so if you fail, as like an entrepreneur here, I think you can still get support from them. There's like an entrepreneurial community here. So there's like you actually have a lot. I feel like I have a lot more freedom here because I don't have the stress of having to pay, you know, these unsubsidized childcare things and Just for my life, and I look at it that way. So I'm like I'm actually like I have a lot of freedom to create and try different things and, yes, I still have to run a business and earn revenue, but man, it's just a great feeling.
Speaker 1:I love the way you presented that to you because then at the same time you know you said, your, your mindset changes as after your parent, which I'm not, so I can't really talk about it. But then, minus the general health care of having a job and, you know, in the US, making sure that's provided by your, your employer, you also have to think about your kids in the future and saving for their University or college. If you do, you want to do that, which I don't think you have to do, that that's free eggs free yeah right there, they're definitely going to check it's free.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's another light, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's all. There's all you think. So I mean, anyway, tie this back to the listener Are you listening here? When you're moving abroad, or if you're going to base somewhere, think about those freedoms that might change the dynamic for you and how you run your business. If you're like you know my buddy Tim wrote a book called a better life or half the price it's living, about living abroad. Tim Leffoldt's great book and Same kind of geo arbitrage idea. It's like well, look at your expenses. If you're spending five grand a month and you move to Thailand and you're now spending 1500 a month, what's that going to do for your lifestyle? What's it going to do for your business? Is it going to free you up to like create more? You know you have the answers to these questions, not me. I'm just posing the hypothetical to the listener here. It's a good thought experiment to like place your mind in different places and think about. You know you could use a tool like um, what's it called? Numbeo? I always love that. Is it numbeo?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, but that was a great. Have you ever used numbeo?
Speaker 2:Yeah, numbeo you should link to it. Yeah, it's great. Uh, so they have like a cost of living comparison. Oh, okay, chart it's numbeo and you can pick like the city you live in now, and then you can Type in the city that you want to move to, like Mexico City or whatever, and it'll tell you like it'll give you a list of how much like the average apartment is, how much you know Groceries are, milk, like all these things, and then it'll tell you the percentage. The amount of percentage is either more expensive or cheaper.
Speaker 2:And it's a great way to just kind of be like all right, if I want to look at my daily lifestyle and I want to kind of envision that and and like figure out where I want to do and how I want to tie in my business With it and stuff, you can use a tool like that and really kind of put yourself there and think about is this, how is this gonna? Is this gonna increase my quality of life on a daily basis? Is this gonna free me up to do more business wise, to create or to start this thing? That might not succeed right away, but I'm really passionate about there's all these questions and perhaps if you're listening to this you love to travel and new experiences and you're really open to going to different places and meeting people.
Speaker 1:There's so many opportunities now and just embrace all that opportunity and then just pick a place and go and if and once you've decided that place, you can use citizen remote, which is my company, to get a visa to go work there remotely nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Thanks, you, you, you saw me there, yeah, and I, I guess one more thing, and then we'll kind of wrap things up here. Being from middle america, there's obviously kind of a stereotype there. I completely didn't realize, or you know, my principles are still my principles, I still, you know, in the same kind of person I grew up as. But you know, there's more than one way that a society can operate effectively, and that's not a bad thing. It's not saying that there's a better way, there's just more than one way. And so, like it's nice to expand your horizons, don't be like, oh, this, you know, if something that we said in this podcast makes you upset for some reason, like it's okay because we're over here and we're living it like it's fine, it's not like anything's deteriorating. So, anyways, it's just it's nice to know that there's obviously more than one way and it's a great big world with plenty of opportunities, plenty of ways to be free and Grow a business, for example.
Speaker 2:Thanks for that. I mean, yeah, I love, I love my home country. I miss my home country. I had great experiences traveling around there and living there, and so this isn't about like bashing america.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely it's just about looking at the reality of this global economy and everybody has their own individual situation. And I'm speaking to my own individual situation Meeting a Norwegian wife having kids, you know, having to make these decisions and and all this stuff. So, yes, you have to take a look at the big picture and I think that would be like the thing coming out of this. Right, tim is just like, I think, all of us. Whether you're like just starting something or you're in the middle of a business or you run a successful business, there are always decisions to make and make and pivots to consider and new products to develop or first products to develop.
Speaker 2:And I always believe that if you kind of take a look at the lifestyle first and let that inform some of your decisions, then you can kind of start there and Allow that to kind of guide you, because you'll be much happier and healthier overall. If you're, something might be a great business idea, but maybe it's not so great for your health, or maybe it's not great for your daily lifestyle because it's going to require, like too much travel or whatever the case is, so to me that's a great way to filter out ideas for products, for businesses, whatever. Take a look at your ideal lifestyle, like reassess it every few months and is it going in the right direction? What do you want to change? What do you want to pare down? What do you want to let go of? What do you want to add and just let like the, your sort of ideal lifestyle, and I don't mean like every day is perfect, but you know your general ideal lifestyle guides you in your decisions.
Speaker 1:So I just kind of wanted to finish with that I think it's so cool nowadays that you can actually utilize A look like moving locations not only just from one part of your country to another, but literally another country. Nowadays With with a remote lifestyle like that's such a good way to change up your day to day Maybe you're not feeling it where you're from and you can actually move to another Complete country nowadays so easy.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and one more thing, sorry, just you can try it out too. Yeah, you know you mentioned the visas. Like there's these nomad visas and all these things happening. What's the worst that happens if you pick up like a nomad visa, let's say it gives you six months in a country. What you go and you have, that is like let me just go into this and have this experience and see what it's like. I can do this for six months and even if you're like after two months you're miserable, you can just take a flight home. Exactly, it sounds complicated.
Speaker 2:I always thought like getting your life set up again If you give everything up. But the reality is there are a lot of people out there waiting to take your money. Like you can come home to the states, for example, and within a week have an apartment, buy a car. Like they'll. They'll be there. They'll be there ready to sell you the car. Like, trust me, the insurance company will be there ready to sell you the car insurance. Somebody will be there ready to rent you the apartment, and maybe it's a furnish thing. Maybe it's not the ideal situation, but it's not that hard to get like your life set up again.
Speaker 1:It really like it takes a bit of work and stuff, but so go try it out and I tell people all the time it's like yeah, you get, you know, one to two year visa you can leave tomorrow. You know it's not that. Oh, they're gonna lock you and say, no, you have this visa. You have to say it like it's not a thing.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah absolutely Well, jason.
Speaker 1:This has been amazing man. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I always wrap up with two things, the first of which is A piece of advice from you. If you could take all your life experiences, turn around and give somebody one piece of advice Based on those experiences, what would that piece of advice be?
Speaker 2:Good lord, I love it. I love it, but usually it's not that kind of restaurants, but that's probably my favorite response so far. Usually it's like a oh god, oh Don't. Don't be afraid to explore new paths.
Speaker 1:See the door open be open.
Speaker 2:Okay and yeah, don't be afraid to say yes and don't be afraid to say no like a bag in the wind, you know just like America with the flow yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I love it. Well, jason, that that's great man. Last thing is do you have anything that you want to share with our listeners? Obviously, we talked about Zero to travel podcast. We didn't really talk about remote norway, but anything you want to, you want to share at the end here.
Speaker 2:Yep, iisco, if you listen to podcasts I'm guessing you do. You're listening to this now, if I didn't drive you too crazy and you want to hear, it's mostly guest talking, not me. But you can search zero to travel. That's TO Travel, not the number two Zero to travel on any podcast app Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can go to zero to travelcom and, if you do, go to zero to travelcom slash newsletter.
Speaker 2:I send out a weekly newsletter with all kinds of cool links, travel tips, things like that. I just sent one about how to get cheaper flights this summer, with one great travel hack and things like that. So, and that's totally free. So you can sign up for that and keep in touch and would love to welcome you to the listening audience over on the zero to travel podcast. And yes, remote Norway is a part of a bigger thing that we're working on to help give people and companies more access to some of these, like retreat areas, co-working spots, things around the world. So, but the best way to keep in touch, sign up for the newsletter or and listen and follow the podcast and then you'll get all that information when it launches. So amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, Jason, I appreciate the time man and good chiefs.
Speaker 2:Always great to connect. Go birds, yeah, baby.
Speaker 1:Cheers man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that wraps up another episode of Thoughts of a Random Citizen. Thank you everyone so much for tuning back in. For those who are new listeners, welcome and I appreciate you joining. I hope you enjoyed the podcast and our guests today. If you are new and you're doing anything remote, be sure to check out Citizen Remote. It is fantastic. If you're already traveling the world, it's a great app to join a very quickly growing community. It's a great tool for those who are just about to begin traveling and figuring out how to navigate that, especially if you work remotely. It's a fantastic platform and we continue to build more and more tools for you guys, weekend and week out.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, if you're an entrepreneur and you're looking for tools or assistance with the next steps of you know what you need to do with your startup, or if you're looking for software development network connections, reach out to us at Torque United. Otherwise, if you're just tuning in for the conversations, thank you. That's why I love doing what I'm doing. Keep tuning in and actually keep a lookout for the not-for-profit that we're about to open up. You know its main focus is going to be on international collaboration and helping build a borderless world, because it's something that I'm very passionate about. That's why I'm not only doing Torque United, but Citizen Remote as well. Really exciting stuff on that horizon. Please keep up to date with all of that stuff the not-for-profit and entrepreneurial side of things at Torque United.
Speaker 1:But again, if you're traveling the world, check out Citizen Remote. If you're wanting to travel the world, if you're a remote worker, check out Citizen Remote. Check out the app we've built for you guys. Check out the platform we've built. It's only growing every single week, so hopefully you guys will take part in that with us. Otherwise, I will speak with everyone in a fortnight. Until then, cheers.