Meet Julia Fisher, Horsewoman, College Professor and World Traveler

Dr. Julia Fisher’s early years in the Midwest were dominated by steel, concrete, and asphalt, leaving her craving the great outdoors. Undergraduate degrees in French and Russian language (U of WI-Madison) landed a 10-year job with a French company in the Chicago area that eventually motivated her to pursue graduate work in the cognition of language use (Ph.D., U of CO – Boulder). But, years as a single parent and academic didn’t leave time or money for entertaining her love of horses and open spaces until her youngest went off to college. That same fall, Julia took a university job teaching experimental psychology, moved to rural South Carolina and took her first riding lesson. Within a year, she had bought a truck and trailer and a little Arabian mare and was competing in endurance rides throughout the southeast, from WV to FL. Today, she’s still teaching but finds time to manage the Sand Hills Stampede endurance ride in the state forest every October. She has completed thousands of competition miles in endurance rides, as well as horseback riding in Mexico and horseback riding treks in Ireland, France, and 3 trips to Mongolia. The first was to compete in the Mongol Derby. The second was to ride reindeer with the Tsaatan tribe in the mountains on the Russian border, and the most recent was the Blue Wolf Totem Charity Ride (BWT) in the summer of 2022. BWT was the longest and largest charity ride in history. Sixteen riders from all over the world were selected by the Veloo Foundation to ride more than 3600 km (2235 miles) across the entire breadth of the country. The ride raised more than $150k for the Children of the Peak Sanctuary in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia. For their efforts to support the children, the Mongolian government awarded all riders the Mongolian Medal of Honor. In addition to her work supporting equestrian groups (she is a Director on the Board for the South Carolina Horsemen’s Council, an appointed member of the Federal Resource Advisory Committee, and a member of the Back Country Horsemen), Julia champions any and all causes that work to benefit children.

Transcript

Rose Cushing 0:49

So, Julia, give us a little background about you and your horse interest. What got you into horses?

SPEAKER_04 0:56

I couldn't even answer that question. I've been racking my brain. I don't, I I've as long as I can remember, from the time I was a little kid, I just kind of looked, looked at horses and wanted to be on horses. And the problem with that in my particular situation was that I grew up in Chicago in the city. So like there aren't a whole lot of horses in Chicago in the city. Um we did discover um sort of accidentally that Lincoln Park Zoo back in those days, and I'm talking a long time ago, folks. Um, they did have a stable, but you could actually go for little trail rides through the park in the zoo there in Chicago. So a couple friends and I would just save up our allowance as long as as much as we could and and get over there, and probably not more than once a year for a little bit of a trail ride to to just kind of keep my interest going. But I was not actually able to indulge my interest in horses until I was much older, grown, uh, educated, and children gone from the home, and now I had time and and finances to actually spend a little time with horses. So I I jumped in with both feet, took my first real lesson when I was 58 years old, and um ended up at a barn that was actually working with a couple of endurance horses for training endurance, and not knowing much about other disciplines anyway, I just accidentally stumbled into a barn that raised Arabian horses and trained for endurance. So that's what I've been doing ever since.

Rose Cushing 2:28

All right. So you did a lot of of um endurance riding, and that led you to to compete in one of the most difficult derbies in the world. The Mongolian Derby. And uh I was um I've read about it and I and uh followed your journey and and two or three other folks that I know that's done it. I can't even imagine what that would be like. So tell us a little about the derby and and going to Mongolia.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

Well, I found with the endurance stuff that every time I would say, Well, I don't think I can do that, let's give it a try, that I managed to push myself to do it. And I'm uh so that meant going from, you know, just training for endurance rides to doing 25 mile rides to doing 50 mile rides, and and and I realized several times, like the only thing holding me back was me, because my horse was was solid and I had a little Arabian mare and and there was just really nothing holding me back but me. And so I heard about the Derby um kind of uh accidentally, somewhere back in oh, I think twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, and and realized at that point that there was a woman from uh local that I didn't actually know, but I'd heard oh, who competed in some of the same rides I did here locally that had was doing the derby that year. And so I started kind of half stalking her on Facebook and trying to figure out, you know, how I could how I could pick her brain about what kinds of things I would need to know. And frankly, at the same time, she sort of dismissing it that I was too old and this wasn't gonna work and didn't make any sense. And and I had the good fortune to actually ride with her at an endurance ride at Biltmore um one fall and basically again pick her brain. And she was just just incredibly supportive, and in fact, apparently had been the oldest person in the field the year that she had competed and and been incredibly successful. She and her partner came in seventh place. So, like she knows what she's talking about, and and she just kept saying, Julia, you want to do it, do it. You're the only one holding yourself back. Age is just a number, and I mean all the platitudes that you hear about. And I just said, Okay, I okay, she thinks I can do this. And again, we rode together through this this 50-mile ride, and and I'm okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna try for it. So so I threw my ring my my hat in the ring, as they say, and uh waited. There's a vetting process for them to kind of can I say make sure that you are who you say you are. You say you you say you can ride, well, that doesn't mean you ought to be going, you know, the other side of the planet and and trying to compete with a bunch of people who really do know how to ride. And and I don't know that I want to say I felt terribly confident other than you know, it if if somebody else could do it, so could I. Well, uh what's what's really the difference? Well, obviously this is an experience and and just playing all the time on a horse. And so that experience was actually not nearly as successful as I would have liked. I had a glorious time uh with with the people and the culture and and the other riders, um, but as as Rose knows, I I did was not successful. I didn't finish the ride. Ended up with some broken ribs and um actually finished the ride in the van with the the support crew because I refused to go home. I I it said I I spent way too much money and energy and invested too much emotion and this uh uh opportunity to just go sit in the hotel and cry until it was over. So so I spent um the last several days just bouncing around on the steps with some of the support crew and it I'm gonna say kind of changed my life. It gave me an opportunity to see to see the the country and the people from a very different angle than just hanging on to a horse and hoping that I can make it to the next station, which is of course what the Derby ends up being as a race against you know all these other people. So Yeah. So that was a it was a it was an incredible success in some ways, in spite of it being a um devastating defeat in others with the with not actually being able to ride like I wanted to.

Rose Cushing 6:46

And you know, did you talk t you haven't talked about the horses that you rode, so tell us about that, because that that in itself is a a trial by fire.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

Well it is, and and so um my my most recent trip was a much different experience in that regard. But for the derby, um they actually it's it's kind of a joke, frankly. Um and I'm not funny. Um are so 30 days under saddle. And my joke on that actually is that it's sort of like that means 30 days ago somebody put a saddle on that horse. And so now they're using them in the derby. And most of them, many of them really are that un unbroken and green. And um, so you're trading out horses every 25 miles is that for people who don't know the format of the the this race, it's a it's a replication of Genghis Khan coastal routes of racing across the steps, so you have to stop every twenty five miles and trade out and get a different horse. So even if you happen to get one who is actually sort of supportive and and and somewhat um responsive to you, you're gonna have to get rid of them in a just a few miles. So it it really become a trial by fire in terms of managing the horses. And you know, physics takes over sometimes. But people who ride, you know that even no matter how good a rider you are, you can end up on the ground. Yeah. So it's uh it's it's it's and that's exactly what happens to most people. Actually, if you if you watch the statistics, the classic for the Derby is only about a fifty percent and sometimes some years less 50% completion rate. So Yeah. And so I'm in good company. I'm in good I I I you know licked my wounds and and and uh came home with my bruises and and decided that you know I've uh it wasn't a complete failure, and in a lot of ways it was a rousing success.

Rose Cushing 8:40

I I I admire you and I think it was hugely successful. Tell us about the different kinds of terrain that you also encountered and and what you were allowed to take with you.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

So the journey is a very limited, I'm gonna say it that way, and somewhat constrained example of of riding in Mongolia because they do now they run a hundred, I'm sorry, a thousand kilometers, but they do, uh thousand kilometers, and they scout out the route and and you've got little manageable bites that you're doing again, these twenty-five mile pieces. And um, yes, the terrain is pretty remarkable. Um I've had arguments with people good not to go off on another tangent about about food in Mongolia, because there's no fresh fruits and vegetables, period. No end of conversations. And the reason for that is that there the land is just remarkably brutal and it's I'm gonna say cruel. It's just nothing arable there. There is no way anything will grow in that land, and that means it's rock and it's dirt, and yes, there's lots of places that are also sand, but it's really remarkable that they actually manage to come up with enough grass every year to man to to support the livestock. So there's seven million animals in Mongolia on in addition to the only three million people. It's another joke about Mongolia. There's there's two to three livestock for every human on the uh in the in the country. So um they do manage to have usually hopefully enough uh uh grass to support them, but otherwise it's rocks and and dust and dirt and and hard-packed ground that um undulate in hills and little foothills and and brutal, disgusting mountain climbs and um the the Derby does a pretty good job of keeping you out of some some of the more I'm gonna say some of the more challenging terrain. The ride itself and the horses themselves are enough of a challenge that they do actually work to to make the terrain as as civilized as possible. But um it it is it is very different from the kind of riding, certainly that I do here in the Sand Hills in South Carolina.

Rose Cushing 10:59

So I remember reading that you know you can go from desert and it's really hot and dry and you you know want water to very cold uh snow in a matter of you know of your day. And uh uh go ahead.

unknown 11:15

I'm sorry.

Rose Cushing 11:16

No, I was just gonna say, you know, how do you even prepare for that?

SPEAKER_04 11:20

Um well that was just more this this most recent ride actually had much more opportunity to find kind of experience of all of that, what that what Mongolia has to throw at you. And and I'm gonna say that yes, the weather is a huge component for most everything. And you we did. We had in this most recent ride literally f all four seasons in one day. You wake up with with a with a blanket of snow on the tenth, and then you know, by by lunch it's so hot that you're you know down to a tank top with your heading, and then and then the wind picks up and it starts we ride into a lightning storm or something. I know this is a crazy, crazy um uh array of different kinds of weather that we had to deal with. But it was just a magnificent kind of again, vistas, and so yeah, the terrain reflects that weather variation in that I it was remarkable, and I have some pictures of of places where literally you can see the line. It's like a line in the sand where the grass stopped and now it's just dust and dirt. And and there's a very, very clear cutoff. It's not like we're a gradual kind of you know easing into a little bit harsher terrain. No, it's just like here's where it stops, and here's where the other stuff starts. And it's you step over the line and you're in another you're in another um universe in some ways.

Rose Cushing 12:45

So And one last point I'd like to make about the Derby because I I am just so stoked that you'd have the courage to to even go. Um what they weigh you in and you're only allowed a certain amount of poundage in your backpack, and that's all you get for the duration of the race as far as clothes and supplies and stuff, right?

SPEAKER_04 13:04

Yeah. We were allowed five what pounds to we it's five kilograms, which for if for us if Americans, that's eleven pounds.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Eleven pounds, and that's all your clothes and all your gear and all your provisions if you wanted to bring, like, you know, granola bars or some kind of protein bars or whatever. They provided food, of course, along the way. Every station you stopped at for a horse, you would get some uh you could get a meal if you wanted to, and and and things to take with you on the horse if you wanted. But as far as your actual gear, yeah. And so, yeah, they did actually weigh us before we got on the horses the first day, and you were not you were not allowed. So there was eleven kilograms in your pack, so they they would weigh your pack separately. Yeah. And then they weigh you, then they weigh you, and I don't remember what the weight limit was for the for the person, but that included, I mean, you had to be in all of your riding gear, your boots and your hatchets and your helmet and and everything that you intended to be sitting on that horse with, uh, was had to meet a certain gosh, I can't remember what it was. But um, it's it's not trivial. I'm a I'm a five to seven and that was another issue, actually. When I first decided I wanted to do the derby, I decided I'd better lose some weight because I was I'm sure I would have made the cutoff for my physical weight, but I just didn't want to mess with that. And I, you know, the other part of that is the can I say, if you're if you're doing a healthy weight loss program, you're trimmed and you're fit and and you're in good better shape all the way around. So so I spent the whole year before I actually competed working at losing weight and got down to I don't want that whole announcement on my fighting weight that I'm really happy with for the last five years I've been able to maintain, which was close to a fifty pound weight loss, by the way, from from where I started when I got the idea to to do this. So all the way around. Again, I keep saying that Mongol Derby changed my life in a lot of ways.

Rose Cushing 15:02

Yeah, I mean, because you know, this this eleven pound pack, you're actually wearing it on your back. It's not like you have a pack horse or that the crew's taking it to the next stop for you. Correct. It's you and this wild crazy horse in a map.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

You're responsible for everything you've got on you, including by the way, where they didn't weigh them, but we brought our own stirrups. And the idea there was that you're you're going to hopefully have some kind of a setup or uh, you know, a a rigging that is comfortable for you when you're riding. They don't want to mess with that. They have, of course, their own saddles, which you had to you had to use, but but the stirrups was not a trivial thing. Very early on, uh, one of the women's horses, this isn't this isn't trivial, either it happens. Her her horse, somewhere between one of a couple of stations, her horse dumped her and took off. Oh man. And uh and he had on him, he had all of her gear and her stirrup. So she managed to hike into the next station and get a m get a horse, of course, but she rode two stops without stirrups. Oh wow. And I I have to say, I'm gonna just step up. When I heard that, I uh we we gave her my stirrups because I wasn't I was already out, not riding by then, and I just said, Well, that's crazy, she can have my stirrups to ride in.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

No sweet.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

Um yeah, but so the the limitations are not not trivial, and and when you start thinking about how that would impact your ability to actually complete a thousand kilometers on crazy horses. Yeah, you want your stirrups, you want your provisions, you want your water. I mean, we had to carry our water on us as well. Um, and that was in case that kind of thing happened. You get dumped and you're standing out there by your, you know, by your lonesome. You don't want to be dying of dehydration and thirst before somebody can find you. So Right, right.

Rose Cushing 16:49

I I just think that's so mind-boggling to even think about it happening and you know, and you and you actually win. I'm so impressed. And survived. So that that that's so exciting. I can I love living vicariously through your crazy adventures.

SPEAKER_04 17:03

So it gets me a whole different sense about what life is about and what riding is about and how to think about your horse and your your challenges on your horse. And yeah, I love it. I love it. It's just been it's been an awesome experience.

Rose Cushing 18:19

So when you did the Derby, you fell in love kind of with Mongolia and the people, and you wanted to go back and and see it at a slower pace that you could really take it all in at.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

Yeah. There's a there's a there's a different, again, it's a whole different way of thinking about life. Um the Mongolians have, you know, um uh because of the nature of their the the um the terrain and the landscape, and I mean, and there's areas we went through this summer, by the way, that get down to literally 76 degrees below zero in the wintertime. And and it's you know, you're living out there, and some people do in their little stairs and their yurks and whatever, and you know, livestock nomadic herders. And so one of the things that means, of course, is that anytime you come across a ho a house, whether there's somebody in it or not, it's never locked. You're you're you're welcomed in, and if there's somebody there, they will give you their last meal before um before eating it themselves. If there's a stranger that needs help or that that they can be hospitable, they're just the most welcoming, warm, friendly people that I've ever had experienced encounter. And they really, they really it makes you just smile. Think about spending time with these people. It's just pretty awesome. So we had this summer, we had all we had four regular four herders that were kind of our regular guys. A couple of them had contributed some horses to the deal. They were actually horse owners, and and they were just generally, you know, guys who knew the terrain and how to work the land and work work the trail. And um we had four of them that were with us the whole time, and we haven't talked about this ride yet, but it was a monumental, 3,600 kilometers, and again for Americans, that's 2,250 miles. We rode on horseback this summer. Um and it was a different kind of ride. Yes, we got up in the morning, we had a leisurely breakfast, and then we but that was the last leisurely thing we did, really. We get on the horses and spend the entire day riding. It was a charity ride. We rode we rode and we raised over $150,000 for um children in Mongolia and the capital who are who are living some pretty pretty brutal hand-to-mouth um way below poverty kind of subsistence living. And uh this uh Julie Velo has founded the Valoo Foundation Foundation, D E L O O O. I'm gonna put in a flux for Julie because just an amazing work for uh the kids in Mongolia. She's built a couple of daycares and schools and put in a library, and and we kind of laughed when we toured the school, by the way, that this might be the first and only flush toilet those kids have ever seen. I guess it's not not trivial. Conditions in Mongolia are very different from what we expect for just even general subsistence kind of lifestyle in the United States. So um anyway, we raised a lot of money for them, and the goal, of course, was to just uh cover vast amounts of of land every day. We did we commit it to 50 kilometers a day, and um we bet that pretty much ninety nine percent of the time. Of course, there were days where we ended up with more like sixty or even one day we did seventy because the camp and and the stopping point for the day was was just predicated on what the horses needed. I mean, we had all these horses with us who were again A little bit more subtle and and ride holds and dirty horses, but they certainly obviously still need food water. So if there was the the point that had been scouted last year as the stopping point for the camp for tonight ended up with no water because of conditions this year, then we would ride on until we found a spot that had enough water for the horses or forage for the horses. We we spent some time in the Gobi Desert. There was no real good grass there, so they ended up having to haul in some hay a couple of times and you know those kinds of things. Because obviously without the horses, we're not riding.

Rose Cushing 22:38

Absolutely. And you know, to to all of us that live on the east coast, we can't fathom not being able to find water. I you know, I I often think about that when I'm reading posts from people on the west coast, you know, especially things about the Mustangs where they're suffering and and we don't even realize that there's there's no water, that if there's no snow, there's no water hardly at all. So I'm sure Mongolia is even more dependent on the natural conditions of of the weather to provide the things that they need.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Well, and and to that point, the horses then are very well conditioned to their to their particular area and how that works. So we we traded out our little herd of horses several times during the ride. So some horses are better suited for the desert and some for the mountains and some for the you know the plains and whatever. So we um um and the sand there was one group of horses that were literally cantering through deep sand and stuff that I would not expect uh another of even horses here, certainly, to be able to manage it. I shouldn't say that. We we train in sand here in the sand hills. But but the point of that is that these horses also, by the way, talking about water, they might get only one watering a day. Yeah. And and then go the entire day, sometimes through deserts and and sand and rocks and whatever. We're talking eight to ten hours of of of travel through the through the steps through the countryside without any water at all. And they did just fine. Yeah. They, you know, um uh obviously they had to have water at the end of the day, and that was again part of the point of making sure that we had someone we stopped, but but they would go long, long periods without water.

Rose Cushing 24:24

Horses and their ability to adapt and their stoic nature never ceases to amaze me. They're they're just such incredible creatures in every way.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

Oh, again, we just like I said, we rode into a lightning storm and the horses just shot along. Yeah. Point them in that direction and they're gonna go. Yeah. They they like to they got to go as a group. I'll give them that, by the way. Uh, you know, it they we we had forty to fifty horses with us most of the time, so half of them we were riding for this particular ride between the the the expeditionist, the fundraisers and the crew, but then we would have all of our loose horses, our spare horses for tomorrow. We trained off horses every day, every other day, so that no horse was actually working two days in a row if possible. And um they all did the distance because we're herding them along with us, but but uh we actually only rode uh roughly half of them every day. But um so they they that was easy. I'm gonna say it that way. To some extent, they're happy to just travel along together as a group. It's not like there was a whole lot of um uh racing around to try to keep them together as we're traveling covering ground because they're happy to travel as a herd.

Rose Cushing 25:41

Right. That herding instinct is so strong that makes sense. Yep.

unknown 25:45

Yeah.

Rose Cushing 25:46

Amelia Joyner with Joiner Up Horsemanship would like to invite you to consider that for your treaty. Amelia specializes in starting hold. Check out the website for more information www.com. So of all the things that you learned in this last experience, what would you say is your most pointed lesson about that you brought home from it?

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Well, two or three things just ran through my mind, and I guess the one that just it's it's the loudest in the back of my mind is uh I had a couple of experiences with horses over there where I just and and I'm I'm biased or conditioned because of the riding that I've done here. And the one herder, we are the only one of them who was actually able to speak English, would he would tell me whenever I would get ner nervous or anxious, and it would say, trust the horse. Trust the horse. Um, and it it's it's a really interesting way of thinking about it, honestly, because um that's kind of my problem here for what it's worth. I don't quite trust my horse. And and for good reason, honestly, she's a crazy little Arabian mayor, you know, she's got her own agenda. But over there, one of the things that what just made the whole trip possible was the horses that are solid and steady and know their job and know, you know, and and and are are willing and supportive and just trust the horse. It's a it's a real honest core kind of communion with the horses in the land and um I guess life changing.

Rose Cushing 28:11

Definitely, definitely. So and and isn't it funny how such a simple thing is such a hard thing to learn, remember, and keep going with?

SPEAKER_04 28:20

Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I it it took a while. It took a while. Yeah. I kind of joke about the the the cutoff, I think, for most of us was right about two thousand kilometers. And that sounds like a long way. And it is a long way. It's it's well over a thousand miles that that I rode before I really felt like I had kind of settled into what this country and these horses and this experience were offering me and being able to take advantage of it rather than you know, like I said, sitting on the edge of your chair worrying about, you know, the footing isn't great. Cross the horse, Julia. It was it was just awesome. Just awesome.

Rose Cushing 28:59

That's so, so cool. What a wonderful trip. Um for for those of you that are more interested in learning more about Julia's trip, she will be at the Everything Equine Expo October 14th through the 16th, giving lectures and showing pictures and answering your questions. And uh Carolina Hoope TV will also be doing a segment to cover that on our station as well. Um fabulous, fabulous trip and journey of a lifetime without a doubt.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

Yeah, absolutely. So for women so much for letting me talk about it, Ron, my favorite subject.

Rose Cushing 29:35

I am so enthralled. I can't wait to hear it more um uh for for just general horse business stuff. You know, our industry is a tough industry here in the United States. And you know, how how do women coming into this industry, what advice would you give them about leaving their mark? I mean, you've obviously left yours. I I can count on one hand how many women I know that have been to Mongolia on this kind of a trip.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

I think the lesson for me has been, and you know, while I'm saying the trust the horse kind of thing, there is also the trust yourself. And I I had a conversation with a couple people and I found myself being somewhat dismissive. You know, they're all like, oh, how wonderful that you did this. Isn't this amazing? I I am so I'm so proud of your ability to do this at your age and whatever. I mean, we haven't even talked about how old I am. But anyway, I just I I kind of shrugged that off because I think this this trip, these trips, have been absolutely uh example or the epitome of the you know, a couple of strategies that people use all the time. One being, of course, age is a number, and if you you know think you can do it, you can, and you know, those kinds of things. This latest one was the the you know, a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step kind of thing. All of those things they are true, they're absolutely true. So as I started this by saying, you know, I was the only one holding myself back. You just have to have to feel like you do have something to contribute. You do have, you know, some ability to manage some of these things. And I think women are particularly suited to managing um animals in general. And I, you know, it's part of the reason I ride a mare. Females are tougher, they're they're they're more um resilient in so many ways. And I think when when women hesitate to get involved for whatever reason, it's usually some kind of a self-doubt thing that uh really, really isn't appropriate. We need to be recognizing our strengths and our abilities to do these things.

Rose Cushing 31:43

I agree a hundred percent. You know, don't be afraid, dive in. And one good thing about being a woman is there's other women out there who help you and advise you and hold you up.

unknown 31:53

Right.

Rose Cushing 31:53

Find those people and make them your tribe.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

We're here. We're here, let's do it. We can do this together. And that was I I won't even go into the whole scenario, but it was one one at one afternoon and Sakna just took my hand and said, We can do this together. Yeah. Yes, we can.

Rose Cushing 32:13

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. So, Julia, by gracious sakes, what's left on your bucket list?

SPEAKER_04 32:20

Um, I just signed up for another ride in Mongolia, actually.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Yay!

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Um It's the Gobi Gal, which is uh run by the same foundation. This is a Balu Foundation again. Um, and it's a it's a little it's kind of a reduced career of what we did this summer. It's a thousand kilometers. I'm sorry, seven hundred kilometers and ten days. So we do 70 kilometers a day, and it's uh again, basically the same thing that we've done before. I I don't have to say my challenge is going to be getting to Mongolia whenever I can. It's it's not uh trivial, it's expensive the airfare or whatever to get there. Um, but now that I've made these contacts, the other thing about both of these rides, by the way, the the most the most dramatic uh takeaway is the people that you meet and the connections that you make with people real real travelers who are can I say intrepid like who would do a ride like this? The people that you meet out there doing this ride are the same kind of people. They're my people. Yeah. So um we we would like to be meeting each other on our own home turf. I've got a couple of new friends in Australia. I probably uh need to get to Australia. Um people in England who have invited me to come ride with them there, and you know, those kinds of things. So I know at least one of them is going to be back next summer for the Gobi Gallop, uh that other ride in Mongolia, and then we'll take it from there. Uh just the distance riding roads is so different from what we do in this country. You ride in circles. Yeah. If you're not riding around, if you're not riding around an arena, even the endurance rides I do, you know, you go out for a 15-mile loop and you come back to the same place.

Rose Cushing 34:04

It's like that's and the the trails here are kind of well marked and well cut, and you you know, you you can't really get lost, but Mongolia is a lot different.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

Oh my gosh, absolutely. I I'm still blown away about the the bur the herders' ability to navigate these vast expanses with absolutely trivial, if if it at all existent landmarks that you can navigate from one place to the next. So, yeah, it's it's a whole different way of riding, and uh, I want to go back. I need to go back.

Rose Cushing 34:38

Well, I'm so excited that you not only have opened up this new world for you, but for all of us as listeners, because before some of my friends, you and a couple of other folks um signed up for the Mongolian Derby, I'd never heard of it. And it's it's fascinating. And to be able to see the pictures and some of the videos and things from there, I mean, what an incredible opportunity. And and to get to go back over and over and over, I'll be excited to follow all of your journeys.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Yeah, I'm going back. If I could possibly swing it, I'm going back.

Rose Cushing 35:09

So very, very good. Well, I hope you guys have enjoyed listening to Joya. And is there anything else, Joya, you want to tell our listeners before we close out?

SPEAKER_04 35:18

I think we've got it. Just uh keep Mongolia on your radar. It's an awesome opportunity for for uh uh tourism and riding and a very different kind of riding and different kind of horses. So if you're open to that kind of um variability, go for it.

Rose Cushing 35:34

Absolutely. And and if you can't get to Mongolia, you know, think about some of the tricks that you can take in the United States because there's no way to see America better than on the back of a horse. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Julia. And thank you guys for listening as always. I appreciate it. And we'll be in touch with you again soon with a new installment. Thank you very much.

unknown 35:57

Thank you.

Rose Cushing 35:59

I hope you enjoyed today's check. Our soul wandered to look like a