Understanding and Navigating Relationships: From Group Dynamics to Love Languages

Ever found yourself in an emotionally charged group setting, wondering how to navigate through it smoothly without adding fuel to the fire? Well, you are not alone. I, your host, along with my good friend, Cat Larsen, share our insights acquired from experiences of traveling with a large group, which often mirrors the dynamics of any group setting. We feel it's essential to detect selfishness, forgive, and understand, as these are instrumental in shaping our kids' approach to life and in our journey to become more forgiving towards others.

Ever felt that despite your best intentions to help, your efforts seem to miss the mark? It's not just about addressing the symptoms, but understanding the root cause. Cat and I emphasize the power of providing a secure environment for open conversations, which allows individuals to express their feelings. We discuss the importance of repeating what we understand from the conversation, as it helps in providing clarity and making the other person feel heard. It's all about fostering safety, intimacy, and understanding in relationships.

No, love is not a one-size-fits-all concept. Cat and I explore the Hartman Color Code's different ways of loving, helping us understand our own behavior and how it might create fear in others. We also discuss how recognizing our actions can help us cultivate healthier relationships. Remember, it's not about being right but about understanding different perspectives. Join us in this enlightening conversation as we delve deeper into the complexities of love, relationships, and self-awareness. Thanks for being part of this journey with us.

Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.

Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:13

Hello listeners, this is Dr Taylor Hartman, with Very Best of Living. We are so happy to have you on board with us Today. I'm with my good friend, kat Larson. Hello Kat, how are you?

Speaker 1: 0:22

Good morning Taylor. What's going on?

Speaker 2: 0:25

Well, life is good, actually very, very good, Feeling great about things. how about you?

Speaker 1: 0:31

Yeah, yeah. I mean I am feeling great about things. Life is really good. Tell me what you're feeling the greatest about.

Speaker 2: 0:39

I get to be with my family and take off for Peru and see the world. We were so excited to share with them what we saw ourselves, my wife and I, and I think it's so much like parenting the moment you can pass on to your kids and experience you loved and enjoyed, and that's so much like what I think is apparent. Really you appreciate the most about opportunities in life is how to pass that on to someone else, something that means something to you. So we're very excited about it. Of course, all my listeners and you know how much I love to travel, so it's never a negative thing for me, it's always positive, even though there are those moments when you're like, oh my gosh, this is going to be overwhelming, but we're excited about it.

Speaker 1: 1:19

So Well, can I ask you a question? Yeah, I was like how many people are you traveling with?

Speaker 2: 1:24

19.

Speaker 1: 1:25

So what's the? I mean I can, I can imagine the coolest thing about it is the energy of 19 Hartmans together.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Yeah, yes, not a large number, it's right.

Speaker 1: 1:37

What is the biggest challenge?

Speaker 2: 1:41

Different people want to do different things. Yeah, so coordinating that can be difficult, but you know, at the end of the day there are those that are easier and those that are not. So that's kind of like life, right. I was thinking about that recently, about people who are difficult and people who are not. So what do you think it takes? What do you think in my mind makes somebody difficult?

Speaker 1: 2:05

When they're selfish.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Right. Number one spot on It's how well you know me. When somebody makes it about themselves and they can't get out of the way, that is the one that I find most difficult, more than anything that anyone else can do. So you know, you learn in life that there are those people who will struggle with selfishness and those who don't. It's interesting I had a great conversation with a very wonderful man that I knew when I was in Africa 10 years ago. I've not spoken with him since then and he reached out to me and said could we just chat? So we talked on WhatsApp and this is a really wonderful man. He was like 30, 29 when I knew him, single, and now he's married with three kids and his daughter recently had the mumps and because the virus with the mumps, she was one of those very few people that then it took her hearing away And he said I could not have spoken to you last week because my emotions were so raw. He's a big red, very disciplined, very driven, and he goes.

Speaker 2: 3:10

I just I wept daily for my child And I wanted her to be able to hear and I was worried about when we've figured out a way to solve the problem. It would mean that she would have to wear this thing over her head. That would make her unique and people would maybe mock her. And I was worried about the stigma. I mean the things that a father goes through worrying about his child because he loves her so much. And then he was saying towards the end of a conversation that he was going to seek an MBA because he really wanted to get a better opportunity in life, a job where he could provide more. And it was just very touching to me how selfless he was and how far he'd come in life by choosing to love others versus make it about himself. Very impressive to me and very enduring. As a matter of fact, yeah, you know when you're with people that are selfish.

Speaker 1: 4:02

I think the thing that happens to me is I get this really weird. I'm working on this very hard in my life. It's like I'm around somebody that touches that place of selfishness and it is a trigger for me. I don't know why, but it's like I feel like I have to you know, make sure they know, and I'm really trying to stop doing that. It's like I need to just shut up. I've decided.

Speaker 2: 4:25

Instead of bringing to the attention.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Well, i mean I'm not gonna change them, i mean they don't know, not going to, they're not asking. They're not open to my input, you know you're right, you're a motion hits me hard and I'm like, are you kidding? and so I don't know I mean, how do you deal with that?

Speaker 2: 4:44

Well, i think, because my nature is more self-centered, right Is a yellow. I've worked so hard not to be that way that at first, when I was processing and growing with this, they were also irritating to me Mm-hmm, like they got under my skin much more than other kinds of people did.

Speaker 2: 4:59

Yes, And I think it's because I could connect with it in my own negative, you know, growing up being about yourself, you know. And then, as I evolved and became more loving and more accepting, what it said to me was well, that's where they are in their journey. I don't have to take offense to it, i don't have to personalize it. It's just where they are in their own journey. And it helped me to be more forgiving of the process, because they're not there yet And, like you said, they're not asking for help, they're not wanting to change, right I'm?

Speaker 1: 5:29

gonna write that down and I'm gonna take that with me this weekend, because we're traveling this weekend And I'm gonna do that I'm gonna go. this is where they are in their journey. That will be my mantra.

Speaker 2: 5:38

Oh, i like that. That's really cool. It's interesting to me. I was just doing a training recently and this guy is so genuine and thoughtful and every time I'm with them he will have for me my ice and Coke zero, like always. It's always there. So I go to this other company in That he works with as well and they have no none of anything right. So I'm like you know, teasing. Oh really, i'm stuck with water. That's what I'm gonna have today with water. And we're laughing about this thing and swear to you. This is the honest truth.

Speaker 2: 6:12

15 minutes later, this incredible woman knocks on the door, interrupts the meeting and brings a full glass of ice and a coke zero that she had gone to the Like the local gas station to get. I was like this cannot be happening. It was such a generous Offer of her I mean, it certainly was not necessary or expected, just thoughtful and I I look at that kind of thing in life and I've just come to appreciate that gift. I remember the one my son, who was very young at the time. He's a white with secondary blue and he went to the refrigerator and said dad, would you like something? I was like Who does that? So like I. I would never expect something to do it for me and I don't think to do it for someone else when I go to the refrigerator. And he taught me by his behavior That that genuine thoughtfulness and that kind of cool. So do you do that?

Speaker 1: 7:08

now.

Speaker 2: 7:09

I do. Back. Last night I was going downstairs I said to my wife is there anything you'd like when I'm down there? and It's just so. I was not that way before, so there are maybe listeners that are going. You know what? I don't ask anyone to do anything either. I just take care of it. But I also don't offer. And it's an opportunity. What's really cool is you offer but you still don't ask.

Speaker 1: 7:29

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 7:30

That's the cool part when you develop that skill.

Speaker 1: 7:32

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 7:33

No, I love so it made me think about loving and I want to talk about that today. So I had some experiences recently, both personally with clients and then professionally with businesses, and I was thinking about How do you Choose to love and what are those? What are the elements that show love in relationships? If it's true that all life is about learning how to love, if that is true, we all experience love differently, some very damaged early on and Some who are nurtured early on in the gifts of love. Ironically, it doesn't always Correlate with if you were taught to love, that you love, and If you were unloved, you don't love. It doesn't necessarily correlate. So what is it that happens to people that choose to love? What is it freeze them to do that which they either were taught or they were not taught? That makes sense to you.

Speaker 2: 8:35

Mm-hmm so I was doing the business consulting recently with a company, and I asked each of them To name the person they considered the best listener in their life The person that does not interrupt, does not have an agenda, does not impose a fix or a solution, that Listens with intent, like I. Want to understand what you're saying and how you're feeling and why it's important to you. And There were perhaps 10 in this group, 9 or 10, three of them all men, one woman. Three of them could not name an individual in their life they would remark as a listener. And Others that shared other kinds of experiences were very insightful. One man said you know, my chiropractor reached out to me Three weeks after an experience I had been there and asked how I was doing. He said that spoke such Volumes to me about how he listened to what I was going on with me, why I was concerned, what was happening, and so I was thinking to myself is listening one of those loving traits? Is that a trait you have, and why is it that so few of us do it? well? It's ironic, even like for myself.

Speaker 2: 9:56

When I am working with clients I listen incredibly well. I mean, that's really what I do is I am there for them for the 45 minutes. Nobody else gets a priority but them. But I don't listen as well when I'm not in that scenario. So obviously I trigger into. This is not about you. It's about them Pay attention, and I think that's something I like listeners to think about. Am I a good listener? Do I really pay attention to what people are saying and show them that by demonstrating it, by listening, looking at them, reflecting back what I think they mean and seeing if it's correct and then following up with asking about them later on? do I do that? And who, what our listeners say, is the best listener in their life? the person who actually hears them the best? So I mean that's something for us to consider as a trait of love. It's a loving trait.

Speaker 1: 10:55

A trait of love. Do you think you've gotten good at it? I mean, you're a therapist, you have to be good at it.

Speaker 2: 11:01

I am so good at listening more than I can even explain, and I was not by nature that way, not at all. But I actually have learned gems in life by listening and not making it about me, which is so refreshing, and I didn't have it at first. And I can turn it off not as easily now, but I can. I can get caught up in doing activities or whatever else, but if I am required to listen I have no problem. I can sit, for example, in church and just pay attention for 15 minutes. I don't jump all over the place or, you know, i have to plan my phone or I can really pay attention to what somebody is saying, and I do that very much in counseling.

Speaker 2: 11:42

The irony is this, kat If I miss a moment of listening, i may make the essence of what they're really feeling and saying. Plus, the other part is, if I'm not really listening, they may choose not to go down a path and share something that would be helpful for me to know, because there's sense that I'm not really there, i'm not really paying attention. So remember listening as lovers and listening. The first thing you have to do is get over you. You have to stop making it about you Remember in your mind, like if I'm worrying about things, they're taking me away from the conversation. If I'm judging something, i don't like what someone says and I'm caught up in judging it, that's not listening anymore. I stop listening at that point. So with the color code I mean probably the best listeners, honestly, are whites by nature.

Speaker 2: 12:30

They're ego lists, they're not about themselves, they don't have to interrupt. They're happy to pay attention and listen to that. Now, not all whites are great listeners, i'm not saying that. But they generally come with the gift of listening better than any other color, as with me. Obviously you can learn to listen. It's not a natural gift, but you can embrace it. But you cannot do it if you make it about you, because you're always interjecting your judgments, your criticisms, your fixes, your solutions. You're missing the person in the experience. So that's why I said a very, very critical thing to think about Am I a good listener? I'm trying to think.

Speaker 1: 13:11

I mean, I know I do work on this daily because I start solving problems.

Speaker 2: 13:22

That's what I do. You're absolutely normal that way. I mean, that's what people do, thinking they're doing them a favor and because, by nature, their head goes there. But the person is dismissed at that point and the problem and the solution becomes the focus. By the way, i've also noticed people that don't focus on the person are also ones that don't read the room well when they're talking, because they just keep going on with their issue or their problem or solution instead of reading the people, reading the room. So it's really important to do that.

Speaker 2: 13:56

I was doing a family intervention recently and, oh my gosh, there was one person who was so damaging to so many people and the pain that they felt with this person was so intense, and yet all she wanted to do was be understood And she would just continue her narrative, oblivious to how they were reacting to her. And finally I broke it and I said they don't care to understand you and they can never feel connected with you until you stop making it about you. You're so insecure and feeling betrayed as an individual because no one understands you. But no one cares to understand you after what you've done to people and how you've treated them, and the more you go on and on about you and why you don't feel understood, the less you're going to be there. You're going to care to understand you And it was really kind of a painful moment, but freeing for those who really they've always wanted to say that and couldn't say it to her. So she'll either do her work now and get over herself or, if isolated, the rest of their life.

Speaker 1: 15:08

You know, the funny thing is is like when you're a person who struggles with listening, and it's like my goal was always to help, I think And say the words and I want you to feel supported And what I was doing was having the absolute opposite effect. I could just sit, I sit there, you know, like when I'm practicing now in my life and checking my head and saying yes with anybody, they feel more supported and loved and understood than if I ever opened my mouth once. That's what's interesting.

Speaker 2: 15:42

Isn't that true? Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny. You know, kat, when I was in training, a Rosierian counseling was very, very big at the time.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Carl Rogers and one of the elements was you just repeat back what they said until they agree with you. Yeah, that's what I said, that's what I meant. It's a little too slow for me, but there are moments, even today, when, if I'm not really quite sure I got it, or if my response to them doesn't seem to land like resonate, i will go back and use that And I will say well, is this what you meant? And it's funny when they will say, no, no, here's what I meant. Even the clarifying process is helpful because it makes them more specific and he helps you to really gather the clarity on what is really going on with that person.

Speaker 2: 16:28

So it's really good for our listeners to consider, like even with teenagers especially like what's really happening with you, like what's really going on in your life, as opposed like, for example, if someone's acting out, typically they're in pain. So it's a mental, emotional pain, harder to read than physical pain perhaps, but it's just pain nonetheless. So you're trying to find the root of their pain that's causing them to act or think or behave a certain way. That's what you're looking for Is what is the pain that's causing that to go on. And if you don't find that, you can be barking up the wrong tree for years and wondering I love you so much, i care about you so much, why won't you let me help you? But you're not resonating And maybe they don't even know, until you bring it out with them, what really is going on that's causing them to act or think a certain way, so them feeling safe with you, safe enough to actually share with you what is going on, or discovering with you. You're never gonna really be able to connect with a person.

Speaker 1: 17:30

Talk about safety for a second in the terms of loving.

Speaker 2: 17:34

Well, so I'm not sure if I shared. Tell me if I shared the quote about safety and intimacy. Have I shared that before?

Speaker 1: 17:43

I don't think so.

Speaker 2: 17:44

It's a great quote that I love very much. It says this people think that intimacy is about sex, but intimacy is about truth. When you realize you can tell someone your truth, when you can show yourself to them, when you stand in front of them and the response is, quote you're safe with me, unquote That's intimacy. It's so powerful. When you actually show someone your truth, show yourself, stand in front of them, and their response is you're safe with me, And not just even verbally, but just a sense you have of you're safe with them. They're not gonna judge you, critique you, fix you. They just you're safe.

Speaker 2: 18:30

And at the end of the day in relationships, if you can't get to that point, you can't really have the kind of relationship you want in life. So you should think about that. Am I someone who is safe? Do I listen well Or do I always kind of have my agenda? And, like you said, Kat, so many people are trying to fix the problem, which is their way of loving, But the person didn't necessarily ask to be fixed, They just wanted to be heard.

Speaker 1: 18:55

You know, loving adult children differently is kind of what I've been in the middle of with my son and my daughter.

Speaker 2: 19:03

And.

Speaker 1: 19:03

I saw something I wish I could remember where it was. I can't remember where it was, But I thought, okay, I need to ask them this question. And it took me a while to ask them, not because I was afraid, but it's like I really want to know this answer. So it has to come from a really clean place, right? Like and then, when they tell me I got to be ready to do it And so it was like how can I love you better? What can I do to love you better now?

Speaker 1: 19:27

as an adult And I knew what was scaring me, which was, like you know, back off mom. I mean not in those words, but basically. I got it. Don't talk to me about my beard, or don't talk to me about you know what I'm wearing, or? who I'm choosing to live with. You know, I'm figuring it out. And that scared me And I didn't want to ask it for a while.

Speaker 2: 19:50

I can't answer it.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Because that to me was intimacy, which is like getting those little details of their life and knowing it. So that's changing. It's a different relationship as they grow And you know it's like I have to let go of some of those old things that were easy, like to me, which meant loving them. loving them tells, you know how do I love them as little as opposed to a 22 year old. you know, young lady is a way different activity.

Speaker 2: 20:16

You're so spot on in the reality. Here's the part that's really interesting. Like loving them means you got to get out of the way Like you'd like to be involved. Like that's who you are And it's such a rich element of a good parenting in my mind. But the reality was you were saying maybe that's not what they want right now, maybe it's not what they need. So guess who had to get out of the way to make that happen?

Speaker 1: 20:38

You, That's so great. I'm a little slow.

Speaker 2: 20:41

No, i don't call that slow at all. I actually liked that very much because I think a lot of people would have said look, it's because I love you that I'm staying engaged, way, and they they refuse to hear what the person says. They don't allow it to happen. And of course then the person does reject them more and push away from them more And they get offended and they wonder why, when it's them, they're not hearing the other person. So your fear of what you might hear, to push through that And, like you said, be prepared to act appropriately when you get the answer, that was incredible, like really really hard to do too.

Speaker 1: 21:15

Well, just two days ago. so I'll tell you how bad I am at it right as of now. I'm probably, you know, C level player right now. So my daughter got this new job. She moved to Seattle and she's working at this new place And I texted her in the morning before she was going down. She's working on a ship, on both. It takes tours around Seattle.

Speaker 2: 21:36

Oh, sure, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:37

I mean, how fun She's gonna be a bartender and a deck hand.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Yeah, oh yeah, totally.

Speaker 1: 21:42

Wow, what a blast. I texted her in the morning and I sent her this song. Well, i didn't hear from her And so about two o'clock I was like I texted her and I screwed up. I texted her and I'm like I texted you and you didn't respond. I'm like Kathy And then.

Speaker 2: 21:57

So then I still didn't respond.

Speaker 1: 21:59

And then later that night I'm looking at texts and I'm like I got it. I saw it. I'm like I'm an idiot. What am I doing? Yes, you know, leave it If you know. Obviously I had a string with it. I didn't realize I had a string with it, it's like right, you didn't answer my name.

Speaker 2: 22:13

Right, you called it Like stop living your life and answer your mom. That's right. I hate it. That is it.

Speaker 1: 22:21

I love that.

Speaker 2: 22:22

So I learned You can actually see her going. oh, my gosh stop.

Speaker 1: 22:25

I know. Well, she's so sweet. Then she apologizes. Oh, i'm sorry. I'm like do you know, when we talked? I'm like, it's all me, dude, i was wrong, wrong, wrong.

Speaker 2: 22:35

No, that's so good. I like that you shared that, because the ability for someone to see in that moment that was about me, not about her, It's so good. And if you can't see that, let's just take that example And you take it one step further and say you know what? I've done a lot for you in your life And I don't appreciate the fact you've just ignored me now when I reach out to you. That's what other parents might say.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Like they would take me And then they drive the person even further away what they want. It's very hard when I see people who can't understand that what they're doing is creating the very fear that they don't want. But it's their behavior, not the other person's behavior, that they have to own. Owning our own behavior and getting ourselves out of the way is not an easy thing to do. It's so much easier to point the finger and blame someone else for what our life is not working.

Speaker 1: 23:29

Well, so can you talk a little bit about loving from each color perspective. Is that something?

Speaker 2: 23:35

Yeah, i mean, how do you love from each color?

Speaker 1: 23:39

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:41

So let's talk about red. The way reds love is they do. They are the pack horses, the pack mules. They lift and carry and direct and fix And that's what they really do to love. And they direct traffic So they put you down a path that often will benefit you in your life, like my red mother was about going to college, showing up for things, being in attendance. Red people are really good at staying the course and one of the reasons I love Reds is when they commit to something, even at their own expense, they will often see it through.

Speaker 1: 24:21

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 24:22

Very loving kind of thing to do in my mind and they'll take hits for you Like. They are very like this red father I was talking to about his daughter, just three and a half year old daughter. He was very much willing to take whatever pain came with that in order to help fix her and help forget on with life Blues. The way they love is that they they genuinely will think of anything they can do to make your life better, like it's interesting how they'll put themselves aside and Nurture you in a way that you have asked for far more than taking time to nurture themselves Okay, they're very aware about the Ain't benefit more from that than taking care of themselves. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Whites love by not judging. Like they really don't make it about themselves in the in. The relationship You have with whites is typically they're happy to be along with the experience and don't detract from you in the process. They're very comfortable just being with, as opposed to imposing. Yellows are very inviting. They. They're inclusive.

Speaker 2: 25:27

One of the most loving aspects of yellows and the reason that people like them so often in life is because they are always Inclusive and what others to be along for the ride with them. Very inviting of shared life experiences More than any other color. Now We can go back and look at the negatives what gets in the way And for red, for example, what gets in the way is their judgment, like they want you to do it the way they do it And if you're not doing it the way they're doing it, they have a hard time accepting it. And people often resent that so much that They'll pull away from even the gift the reds giving because they hate being controlled that way. And the blue, of course, is strings attached. They are great at giving guilt and making people feel like if they Don't act in a certain way of appreciation, then they're not deserving of the blues genuine love they're giving to them. So the strings are Often binding and not seen by the blue, but other people feel them More than people realize.

Speaker 2: 26:34

The whites is detachment, like they'll live in their head, versus out loud. I'm always impressed in my Instagram Oh, white asked How do I become better at identifying emotions? and I thought what a loving question. Like I want to become better at doing this because obviously others Want to understand. So I'd like to work on identifying emotions better, because whites oftentimes just won't go there. They won't do the work. They'll allow moments to pass and not ever a comment or say something that might be very, very meaningful. Someone.

Speaker 1: 27:13

I was just gonna say it just kind of brought up. I've been Interested in this. Have you, have you looked at or experienced that near enemy concept? the near enemy of something of like, you know, like the near enemy of love is control.

Speaker 2: 27:30

Oh, interesting. No, tell me about that.

Speaker 1: 27:32

Well, it's just, it's a guy named Jack cornfield and it's really. It's funny because it in your work It's the dirty motive. But, it's also that spin that we give ourselves. Remember we talked to you, know like when? you taught us about the spins. Yeah, and I think it's. It's the same thing. It's like, as you're talking, like a white is well, i'm gonna disconnect because it's gonna change in a minute and that is you know. That means that You know how you tell yourself why you do what you do.

Speaker 2: 28:02

Yes, when it's dirty is what you're talking about. Right Justifying.

Speaker 1: 28:06

Yes, exactly. Got it, So yeah it's like, on the surface It looks like I'm really doing it, but so like like the, the near enemy of love is control, mm-hmm, right. So not that connection, but the control of it right, And then we just it's like well, I love you. That's like you said before well, I love you.

Speaker 1: 28:24

That's why I'm calling you 14 times right, You know that's love well, and and you're just making such a beautiful point that in In the Hartman color code, like to be able to look at that and go. That disconnect that you're talking about with the white Oftentimes feels like love to them, right, right, that's exactly. I'm not being a problem and that's how I love you.

Speaker 2: 28:45

Right, that's exactly right. And and then they wonder why it doesn't work. Yes, but it's not clean. And then, lastly, we have the yellow, and they can be very self-centered, like they can be dismissive You don't have fun. I really don't need to wait for you to join us, mm-hmm, and they'll go off and they'll have the fun at your expense, like I offered it. You didn't want it, so goodbye. And that can be very flippant and therefore hurtful. So That's, that's it for today, mm-hmm. Just some thoughts on those things. We're gonna pick up loving part two next week, because I think there's some other things I want to talk about in terms of how do you? if it really is the essence of life, if that is the essence of life, we should get better at. It is what I think.

Speaker 2: 29:27

Thanks, kat, as always listeners We love, love to have you with us on this journey and we'll see you next week.

Speaker 1: 29:33

We do love you. Bye.

Speaker 2: 29:35

Bye now You.