Have you ever wondered what makes a beach or park accessible? Public recreation spaces must be accessible under Titles II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, but it can be difficult to figure out exactly what the requirements are. This edition of Ask About the ADA features a panel with experts from the Northeast ADA and our Puerto Rico affiliate MAVI about how recreational spaces can provide equal access to everyone, including people with disabilities.
NortheastADA.org
Have you ever wondered what makes a beach or park accessible? Public recreation spaces must be accessible under Titles II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, but it can be difficult to figure out exactly what the requirements are. This edition of Ask About the ADA features a panel with experts from the Northeast ADA and our Puerto Rico affiliate MAVI about how recreational spaces can provide equal access to everyone, including people with disabilities.
NortheastADA.org
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JOE ZESSKI: Hello, welcome to Ask About the ADA, the podcast where we answer your questions about the Americans with Disabilities Act, and how it applies to your everyday life. On this week's edition of Ask About the ADA, we're going to interview some of the staff here at the Northeast ADA Center to talk a little bit more about recreational access, beach access, and its impact in one of the territories covered by the Northeast ADA, Puerto Rico.
So joining me today, we have a full house. We have Grace Fairchild, our student worker and the producer for our podcast joining us. And of course, we also have, returning again, Jennifer Perry. She is the access specialist here at the Northeast ADA Center. And joining us from our affiliates in Puerto Rico, MAVI, we have Mildred Gomez, and we also have Nellyber Correa Rivera.
Thanks, everyone, for joining us. I'm glad you could be here today. And I look forward to talking about beach access and recreation access, in general, with you, as we go along today. So that being said, let's get started. I think the place to begin is with the basics. And, Jennifer, maybe I'll throw this question over to you to start with. Could you review for people what parts of the Americans with Disabilities Act typically apply to recreational facilities? And how do they apply?
JENNIFER PERRY: Sure, Joe, so the ADA, of course, is quite a comprehensive civil rights law. And where the ADA applies is reflected in the titles, as you mentioned. In terms of recreation that's offered by public entities, meaning somehow tied to state or local government programs or facilities, that would be Title II of the ADA that would apply. And of course, generally speaking, Title II prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities in various types of programs, services, and activities. And that would, of course, extend to recreation, as well.
And then Title III of the ADA applies to places of public accommodation, so that would include any type of private organizations or nonprofit organizations that offer recreation opportunities. So it's, generally, Titles II and Title III. Having said that, Title I of the ADA, that we've had podcasts about in the past, certainly would apply to the employees of recreational areas, as well, but, primarily, when we think about recreation, we're focusing in on either Title II or Title III of the ADA.
GRACE FAIRCHILD: Excellent. So can you explain why physical accessibility and equal access and recreation, why are those so important?
JENNIFER PERRY: Well, again, going back to the fact that the ADA is an incredibly comprehensive civil rights law, Congress certainly recognized the importance of recreation in everyday life, not only the health benefits, but also the social opportunities that come along with recreation. When we use that term recreation, again, that's also a very broad term.
It can include everything from sports and fitness related activities, to the ability to go to the YMCA and take a swim class, participate on a team, to join in your town's summer recreation camp that might be offered for children, or to join an art class. So it is an incredibly comprehensive term, when we're talking about recreation today in this context.
But it's also important to remember that the ADA is now 31 plus years old. And when the ADA was originally signed into law, particularly in terms of physical accessibility, the main goal, 31 plus years ago, of course, was to really enable people with disabilities the right and the opportunity to get through the door, the ability to get into the entrance of a building, and then circulate throughout the building.
But then as time evolved, we saw the importance of going much further, much beyond people with disabilities having the right to get in the door to people with disabilities should have the right to participate in all of those services and activities that occur that are offered by both public entities as well as places of public accommodation.
And that's really one of the main reasons that, when the ADA standards were updated in 2010, we saw an entirely new chapter created, Chapter 10 of the ADA Standards for Design that specifically addresses places of recreation. That was not initially included in the original ADAG published in 1991.
So Congress now said, OK, we're going to have firm and fast technical requirements for a swimming pool, and spas, as well as for courts sports, golf facilities, miniature golf facilities, and other areas, as well. So I think, as the ADA has evolved, the importance of recreation has also come to the forefront as well.
JOE ZESSKI: And I think that also speaks to the spirit of the ADA, the intent of the ADA, is, yes, the law is about equal opportunity and employment, and in accessing state and local government and even businesses, but it also has a larger intent of sort of increasing community participation for people with disabilities.
And being a part of the community is more than just about going to the grocery store or going to your county office or having a job. Those are all very important aspects of it. But it's more than that. It's being a part of the community by participating in recreation and in sports and in the sort of fun activities. I think you really hit on that well, Jen. I'd like to move over and have you speak a little bit next, Nellie Baer.
One thing that I'm curious about, and I think people listening might be curious about, what do people contact you for in terms of technical assistance and recreation? What you hear in Puerto Rico might be a little bit different than what someone say in New Jersey might call about. So I'm curious to hear, what sort of questions do you get about participating in recreation or recreation access?
NELLYBER CORREA RIVERA: Thanks for the questions. The truth is that I have been a year in the program. And in this year, it's not the most common topic among technical assistance.
But, on November, 2021, a group of young people with disability from a Leadership Academy in Puerto Rico, when orientation about the law and how the ADA applies to beaches in terms of accessibility, we talk about the importance of the road without barrier accessible bathrooms and tables, because this group of young people identify in their community some barriers that limit the access of people with physical disability to access to the beach. So it's not the main common questions that I receive, but sometimes it's measures about ramps and all that kind of questions.
JOE ZESSKI: Grace, maybe I'll hand it to you to ask the next question.
GRACE FAIRCHILD: Yeah, I mean before we move on, I'm interested to hear from Jen what kind of frequently asked questions she gets on the mainland.
JENNIFER PERRY: Regarding recreation, Grace, specifically?
GRACE FAIRCHILD: Yeah.
JENNIFER PERRY: We have received questions regarding access to beaches, public beaches, especially. We also occasionally receive questions regarding trails, outdoor developed areas. Parks and playgrounds is another area where we've done a lot of work in the past helping municipalities understand how to improve accessibility, particularly to playground equipment and other types of play areas when updating their transition plans, which is a requirement under Title II of the ADA. Those certainly, I would say, are the top three areas that we get calls about.
GRACE FAIRCHILD: That's really interesting. So what are the most common physical barriers that people with disabilities face, whether it's in parks or on beaches?
JENNIFER PERRY: So I can say that I certainly can't speak for every individual with a disability because, obviously, depending on your disability, the challenges are going to be different for each individual. But in terms of what we hear here at the Northeast ADA Center, a lot of times the biggest challenge, frankly, is a lack of understanding about what the obligations are on the providers of recreational facilities, lack of understanding that there even are ADA requirements that may apply to a new walking path that's being designed in town, or somebody wants to install a trail perhaps throughout a forest or another type of wooded area.
People, frankly, just don't think that the ADA would apply in that scenario. And that, of course, leads to a lot of problems, because if you don't you have to think of accessibility, then, obviously, accessibility is not going to be included in the design of certain features. So the biggest thing I would say is a lack of education and awareness. And that's something that we work very hard to do, especially through mediums like this podcast today.
So the first thing I would say is understanding that there are accessibility requirements for a lot of recreational areas. So letting-- helping people understand what those things are. In terms of beaches, and since that's come up already on this call, again, I think, because the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design don't directly address-- meaning if you open Chapter 10 that I mentioned earlier, you're not going to see beaches mentioned.
However, there is still an obligation under Title II of the ADA to provide equal access to the programs, services, and activities that public entities offer. So if your town has a public beach, under Title II, those general nondiscrimination provisions apply, and you have to think globally how is this public beach accessible to people with disabilities, recognizing that there isn't a black and white standard or roadmap, if you will, in the ADA standards for design that tells you how to do that. So I think that leads to some of the confusion, as well.
The good news is that, on the federal side, under another law called the Architectural Barriers Act, there are standards that are being applied for federal beaches that details how to provide access to federal beaches. And those are pretty much viewed as the best practice document for public entities to use, and that they address things like, how do you provide access for somebody who uses a wheelchair or another mobility device over the sand, whether that's through a permanent ramp, or through the use of removable-- removable beach mats.
Those are the types of things that are addressed in the Outdoor Developed Area Standards. So we often help to connect people with what resource they should be using in their attempts to comply with the nondiscrimination provisions in Title II that certainly do apply to public beaches.
JOE ZESSKI: That's really helpful. Let me go back to Nellyber. Just thinking of what Jennifer was saying, and also what you mentioned earlier, Nellyber, about the students learning about beach accessibility, are there any beaches that you would suggest are particularly accessible maybe in Puerto Rico that you're aware of? Are there any places that seem to do it right, or that seem to do a good job of providing access to the beach?
NELLYBER CORREA RIVERA: Well, first, I want to add that Puerto Rico has a state law since 2005 that gives instruction to the Recreational Department to create accessible parks. And we have approximately three to four beaches that have programs that the name is seen without barrier, in Spanish, maxim barrera. This meant that the beach has-- includes equipment for people with disability to have access to basic beaches.
One of the most common programs we have in our local municipality, and we have another at Carolina. And we know that in the island we have a lot of programs that are trying to promote accessible recreational, and giving the people with disability all the assistance that they need to participate and enjoy being in their recreational area.
JOE ZESSKI: Thank you for doing that, and sharing that, Nellie. Mildred, let me maybe put this question out there, and anyone who wants to add to this answer, please feel free to do so. But what do you think might be some misconceptions that people might have about what makes a recreation accessible or what misconceptions might people have about the ability for people with disabilities to access different types of recreation?
MILDRED GOMEZ: Hello, everybody. I think that most of the people here in Puerto Rico, the people with disabilities don't have the same access to transportation as other people that don't have a disability. So this is a barrier. The first barrier that the person with disability have to have access to recreation. And other issue is that people need to understand that people with disabilities are not sick. And they have the right to access to all kinds of services.
And as Jennifer mentioned before, the recreational area is an important area for your mind and for your body. And you have the right, as a person with disabilities, to have access to all that areas. So I think, because in parks, most of the people, like here in Puerto Rico, we have big parks, but in these small communities, we have small parks.
And when you pass through these small parks, you pass through them, and you think in children, and you don't think in big people, that they used to go to the park to have recreation, and not necessarily to get on a swing, and have fun like a child.
So I think that people have to understand that people with disabilities have the right to have access to these areas. And most of the times, they're not participating, because they don't have the transportation, or the areas are not accessible. So that is in the recreational area.
In the beach access area here in Puerto Rico, as Nellie mentioned, the scene without barriers, or maxim barrera, the name in Spanish, they used to do all these concrete ramps in the water, so people are not able to access by their own to the beach, because they don't have beach mats. They need to access a special wheelchair, and transfer to this special wheelchair to get access to the beach.
So this concept about ramps, that we know that when most-- many people think, and people with disabilities, they think in ramps and big doors. They don't realize that we have other technologies that people can access straight in their own wheelchair to get close to the beach, to the water, and have fun, like everybody.
JOE ZESSKI: Yeah, it's about the full participation in the community, that is at the heart of the ADA and the spirit behind it. And I know that's a part, like we were saying, is often overlooked.
JENNIFER PERRY: And this is Jennifer. I can also add on, Mildred made some very good points. And it's important to remember that the same is true with recreation as it is with other areas, particularly when we talk about the built environment that the ADA Standards for Design really should be viewed as a minimum or as a baseline standard.
Truly inclusive and successful recreation-- recreational programming for people with disabilities almost always exceeds what is required in the ADA, and takes a deeper dive, if you will, to looking at how to support the individuals with disabilities and what their needs are for particular activities. And the classic example of that is the availability of wheelchairs that can be used on beaches.
There are so many various types of wheelchairs that have, obviously, the larger generally plastic wheels that can-- they cannot be used independently by somebody with a disability-- so they require assistance. But they often are an effective tool to, particularly, if there's a beach mat or a ramp that's provided to get across the sand, but no municipality is required to purchase that type of device.
Having said that, when you have those devices, you are absolutely increasing accessibility opportunities for people with disabilities. And with regards to those types of water chairs, there are so many different types. There's been so many-- so much technology that has changed.
I know there's a product called water wheels that enables people with disabilities to, in some cases, independently, once they're in the water, and using this chair, to go and have an experience using this floating wheelchair in the ocean. So their technology certainly has impacted access, and provided greater opportunities and a lot of times, again, those include features that aren't necessarily required by the ADA.
GRACE FAIRCHILD: That's really fascinating. So and this moves into our next question really well. We wanted to ask if there were any other innovations in recreational accessibility that people should know about. So whether it's creating more wheelchairs that are able to get across the sand and into the water, or even whether they're just improving guidelines. What are the innovations that we're seeing in accessible recreation?
JENNIFER PERRY: You know, technology is, obviously, ever evolving. And I'm hardly a techie. But certainly in the case of beaches and beach wheelchairs, there's, as I mentioned a moment ago, there's been a lot of advancement in those types of things.
With those outdoor developed area standards that provide a very good road map for providing access to things like trail accessibility, there have been a number of manufacturers that have stepped up and helped to develop products, for instance, that can be used for a ground surface to help make a trail surface more accessible for somebody who perhaps uses a mobility device.
And those standards, themselves, the Outdoor Developed Areas Rule, I certainly would consider that an innovative resource that park managers and, particularly, people developing trails, can look to to provide increased accessibility. And, again, I have to mention that I just hope that if anything, public entities as well as private entities that offer recreation just over time, and they certainly are ready, but continue to understand how the ADA applies to recreation, and understand that there are obligations to provide access for people with disabilities.
JOE ZESSKI: Thanks, Jen. And before we end today's time together, are there any last minute thoughts that anyone wants to share about recreation, or the importance of the access to it? I know, Jen, you just touched on one, and the importance for public entities and public accommodations to know about it. Is there anything, either Nellyber or Mildred, you'd like to end with before we finish for today?
MILDRED GOMEZ: I just have to add that all this recreational accessibility and new innovations make great changes to the people with disabilities. When a person can access to some service, to some recreational area, the life of that person is changed.
And people with disabilities have the right. I spoke, like here in Puerto Rico, that we are on an island, and we have beaches everywhere. So people with disabilities have the same right to access to the beaches as people that don't have a disability. So we just have to say that we need to be inclusive, and to give access to all this recreational areas to the people with disabilities.
JOE ZESSKI: I think that's a perfect note to end on for today. And on behalf of Grace, let me thank all of our panelists for being a part of our podcast at least for the second time, and for, Jennifer, several times. So thank you, again, to Jennifer Perry, our access specialist at the Northeast ADA, as well as Mildred and Nellyber from our affiliate in Puerto Rico, MAVI. And as well, thank you, Grace, as always, for producing the podcast, and, today, for being a part of it.
If you have questions about the ADA, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-949-4232. You can visit our website at northeastada.org. And of course, you can follow us on social media. And if you a question about recreation and accessibility, please feel free to reach out, and we'll be glad to answer your questions. So thank you, again, for listening, and let's continue this conversation.