#89 Validation with Joanne Robb

Validation. What is it and how can we do it well? Listen in on today's episode as Psychotherapist and fellow T1D parent, Joanne Robb, and I talk about validating our child's (and our own) feelings and emotions as we continue on our type one journey.

Being the parent or caregiver to a child living with type 1 diabetes can come with a lot of emotional, mental and relational challenges.  Joanne is such a great resource for parents and caregivers of type 1 diabetics. In her practice, coaching courses and podcast, she primarily deals with the emotional and relational challenges that come along with managing T1D day in and day out. Check out all the links below to find Joanne! Enjoy!

For JOANNE'S WEBSITE click HERE.  Click on the dark purple banner at the top of the page to be a guest on her podcast and have your questions answered! You'll also find a direct link to the podcast itself.

OTHER EPISODES YOU MIGHT ENJOY
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Early episode on Anxiety
The Grief and the Trauma of a T1D Diagnosis
Working through Anxiety with Psychotherapist and T1D mom, Joanne Robb

Transcript

Katie: 0:00

This is episode 89 of the sugar mamas podcast. And today I am back with psychotherapist and fellow T one D mama Joann, Rob. Be sure to check out Joanne's website, diabetes, sweet talk.com. There you can find a link to register for one of her courses. Joanne is passionate about helping other parents and caregivers of type one diabetics deal with the emotional. And relational challenge that come along with managing type one. She offers several courses that do just that. And Joanne recently started a podcast, which I am absolutely loving. Called sweet talk for parents of kids with type one diabetes. And if you want to have your questions answered by Joanne. Visit the website, diabetes. Sweet talk.com. And click on the purple banner at the top of the page to submit your question. You can be a guest on Joanne show. It can all be done anonymously. But you will get to chat with Joanne and have her answer your question. You guys it's like a mini therapy session. And we all need one of those. Okay. The topic of today's episode is validation. What is it? And how can we do it? Well, Let's get started. You're listening to the sugar mamas podcast, a show designed for moms and caregivers of type one diabetics here. You'll find a community of like-minded people who are striving daily to keep their kids safe, happy, and healthy in the ever-changing world of type one. I'm your host and fellow T one D mom, Katie Roseboro. Before we get started. I need you to know that nothing you hear on the sugar mamas podcast should be considered medical advice. Please be safe, be smart, and always consult your physician before making changes to the way you manage type one diabetes. Thanks. Good morning, or it might not be morning when you're listening to this, but hello everybody. I'm back today with Joanne Rob. And um, just as a reminder, Joanne is a psychotherapist. She's also a type one mom. She has two kids with type one diabetes. One is already grown and out of the house. And one is, is is he still in college or is he even done with

Joanne: 2:19

No, he's done with college. He's actually home for a minute and he's moving to Spain.

Katie: 2:24

Woo. That's great. And then your daughter with type one is in high school.

Joanne: 2:27

Yeah, freshman

Katie: 2:28

Okay. She's a freshman in high

Joanne: 2:30

and then I don't wanna forget that I have another child,

Katie: 2:33

I know this other kid

Joanne: 2:35

you know that other child

Katie: 2:38

I know. And I'm sure that you love that other child just as much as you.

Joanne: 2:44

some days more Katie, but don't tell anyone else that.

Katie: 2:48

Anybody except for the listeners that are gonna be tuning in take that you want. Let's see. You mostly deal with the emotional, mental, relational aspects of having to deal and manage, deal with and manage Type one diabetes on a daily basis and your practice. And you recently started a podcast, which I am personally loving. It's called Sweet Talk, right? Diabetes Sweet.

Joanne: 3:12

It's called Sweet Talk for parents of kids with Type one Diabetes.

Katie: 3:16

talk with parents of kids for type one. I just listened to your most recent episode this morning, actually

Joanne: 3:20

Oh, thank you.

Katie: 3:21

chatted with you. It was a good one. It was about elementary age kids and just ways to share with teachers and friends about diabetes if they feel comfortable. Anyway, it's a good one. Listen in. I'll put a link in the show notes for everybody. And just a quick plug because honestly, I, I'm really loving your podcast and if you want to have your type one questions answered, type one questions in a, again, kind of like along the lines of like, mental struggles, emotional struggles, relational struggle, struggles answered by Joanne. You can go to her website. I'll put a link in the show notes to that as well. And there's a banner at the top of the page where you can click. And submit your question and you can have a conversation with Joanne and she will answer your questions for you, which I mean, guys, it's like, it's like a three, a free mini therapy session. Who wouldn't want that? Right? So check it out.

Joanne: 4:10

Thanks, Katie.

Katie: 4:11

Oh, you're very welcome. Today's topic is kind of, I feel like it's kind of a buzzword right now, just in like the mental health arena. But it's validation. Maybe it's not a buzzword, but I'm only becoming aware of it within the past couple of years. But it's, it's validation. So we're gonna be talking about validation today. So I guess we should just start with Joanne. Would you just tell listeners what that means? What is valid?

Joanne: 4:34

That's such a good question. I feel like I should pull up my notes. So I should give a more official like Webster style definition, but essentially validation is helping a person to feel like their concerns if we're thinking about emotional validation, that their concerns have legitimacy in your eyes. Right, that their emotional state has legitimacy. one of the things I find, Katie, that can be hard for people when thinking about validation is they feel. Validation means they're agreeing with their child and sometimes we don't agree with our children, but that's actually not what validation is. Validation is being able to see from their perspective where your child or your partner or your who, your sister, like whoever you use it with, you know where they're coming from and legitimize their experience of what they're, you know, how they're feeling about.

Katie: 5:25

Yeah. I've always thought of it as a way to kind of, to to be able to communicate, like I see you and I see what you're going through and. I like you exactly like you said, Like I might not agree with you completely, or I might have dealt with this in a different way, but I, I can understand why you might be feeling that this way. Is that correct?

Joanne: 5:46

Yeah, that's basically correct. I, I do have a bit of a formula I teach, which we can talk about later about like how to do a good validation and I would never insert the part that says, I don't agree with you but a validation is exactly that, Katie. It's, it's helping people feel got, it's helping people feel like you really see their perspective. Absolutely.

Katie: 6:06

Okay. And I mean, why? So just kind of verbalize why that's so important for our kids and not only our kids, but for us. Cuz we have emotions too, as parents.

Joanne: 6:16

Absolutely. When someone feels seen and validated, when they feel joined in that way, they generally stand down. So what do I mean by that? Oftentimes we take hold of something emotionally and we feel like, I think of a dog with a bone. Like we can't get it, We can't separate from it in any way. And when someone feels validated and seen, it just, it's a natural human response to. Because you feel joined, right? We, we feel attached to kind of negative responses to things often when we don't feel like anyone understands what our experience is. So we kind of have to dig in with the behaviors to get, because that's our strategy to get seen and heard, right? So, if we can validate somebody's experience, often they stand down and they, can he take in then what we are offering, what we do need, how we do need to move them, or they can take in our perspective, I mean, it's not rapid fire, right? Like if you're in a fight with your spouse and you say, Yeah, I can see why you, whatever. but here's my perspective, that won't work so well. But if over time you are validating somebody's experience and perspective, they just will trust you more and take in better what it is you have to offer.

Katie: 7:30

Okay. Maybe this will come with the formula that we'll talk about in a little bit, but are you saying that at first it might be a good idea rather than to say, You know, I, I see where you're coming from, but like, leave out the, but for now, like, kind of build up that relationship of validation, so to speak um, before you start to interject your own thoughts and opinions.

Joanne: 7:51

So you're jumping right to the, The problem we all have, like when I teach validation, which I sometimes do a free validation webinar, so if folks are interested, they can just sign up for my newsletter and they'll find out whenever that comes next. I actually don't know when I have it scheduled. When I teach it, I say, You know, your kid comes to you and says, I can't do my chores. You say, I totally understand that you're feeling very busy with your homework and you can't do them, and what's the next word you're gonna say? And everybody knows that the next word is, but

Katie: 8:19

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 8:19

So when I teach validation, we, Well, there actually two things. When I teach validation as a tool, we switch the butt to. We actually slide over the solution part and we do a lot more deep validating

Katie: 8:33

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 8:34

in your fast everyday life when you're moving quickly. The tricky part is to, or the, the trick sorry, is to change the butt to an and. Right. I know you can't mow the lawn. Cuz you have a lot of homework. I know you feel like you can't mow lawn cuz you have a lot of homework and the lawn actually still needs to be mowed.

Katie: 8:51

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 8:52

because, but erases the whole first half of the sentence. Instantly it just says, whatever you had to say is no longer valid. I'm just, I just took an eraser to it. And so when you change it to, and you say, We're holding both of these things, and it becomes a dialogue like, how do we hold both of these things, right? How do we support both of these things that you've had a lot of homework, you're feeling stressed and don't wanna mow the lawn, and the lawn still needs to be owed and it's your respons.

Katie: 9:19

Would it be good to follow up with, so how do you want to work through this to you know, get the lawn mode, but also make time for your homework and things like that? Like open it up to a conversation of, okay, how can we figure this out? You know, because you're frustrated and the lawn needs to be you're frustrated, stress out, and the lawn needs to be mowed.

Joanne: 9:41

So that example implies a child who's old enough to do that kind of reasoning, right? And yes, I might do that. I might also just set a limit, right? Like that kid, that lawn mowing kid is, might not be the best example in a diabetes world, but we can think of other examples for sure. But that lawn mowing kid is struggling with time manage. And struggling with priorities. Like, my guess is your 14 year old did not spend all week doing their homework. They also were on TikTok and they were texting their friends and they were doing all the things right? So you're holding the line as a parent there and helping them come up with a solution for how they can make it work. Right? Unless maybe they were sick all week and have a lot of homework, so you're feel like, Okay, we'll give you a free pass. You know? I have no idea. But in a validation tool when I teach it in a bigger way, and we should think of a more poignant example than lawn mowing, Why don't we start there and then I can use that to sort of give a strategy.

Katie: 10:33

Okay. I mean, feel free to critique my example, but let's say there's a, a tween or a teenager or really a kid of any age that is forgetting and I put that in air quotes to bolus for meals or just flat out not doing it because they don't want to, because they're with their friends and they just rather not have type one diabetes. So, you know, you. Engage them in a conversation about it. They get very defensive, emotional you know, if, if we're lucky, maybe they would talk to us about how they feel frustrated and angry about diabetes because they don't have to deal with it. How would you approach that situation?

Joanne: 11:08

So I wanna back up to before like the validation needs to come at the front end of the conversation. Right. So. I always ha my personal favorite sentence starter is, it makes sense, It makes sense that you're not boing, you know, Kelly, because and this is where, this is where we slide over our problem solving, right? We, we move to be causes. And what we have to do is imagine into this child's mind and life and how they're trying to escape from pain. Or depending on the situation, work with their best intention. Like nobody is coming from a place of being ill intentioned ever really. I mean occasionally, right? But it's pretty rare. Most of us are doing our best all of the time. And so if we imagine that for our type one kid who's not boing, what do we imagine and what is poignant? It's not just diabetes is hard, right? Because they know that already they can dismiss you. So it would be something like, Hey, sweet. it makes so much sense that you're not boing for lunch. I really get that because it feels like you're outing yourself all the time, right? Because you're with your friends and you don't want to have diabetes. And because I'm making up a story here because you just got diagnosed, right? And this was not anything you wanted. And it feels really heavy and burdensome. Right? And this is where we should toggle and we, you and I both know. That it's really important for your health to get that insulin in. So let's think together about how we might be able to make one change. That's, that would be a more complete validation. Right. So the, because is like sometimes when I teach this to parents, I encourage them to write it down, like to, to strategize the solution. And strategize, sorry, the validation, but strategize like, what is your child experiencing? What is causing them so much pain and difficulty? And then turn that into a few, because statements, because your kid will really feel seen. And will they start boing magically? No, but they're gonna, you're gonna continue that quiet drum beat and they're gonna feel seen and they're gonna eventually internalize how important it is to take care of the.

Katie: 13:13

Yeah, no, that's great advice. How do you think we should gently approach our kids when we do start to notice some of those patterns of just them being neglectful in their diabetes management? You know, if they're, if they're a little bit older,

Joanne: 13:24

Yeah. So I think validation is helpful. It's funny because my next newsletter, which will be out, you know, you could again go to my podcast cuz it's, it's the blog postings it. My next one that's coming out is about change because I think one of the things we forget with diabetes is we get tugged by every moment. Right? We have to, we have to pay attention to this. And then the next number, and then the next number after that. But we kinda lose sight of the long term, the big picture when we're doing that, we can't hold both perspectives as easily. So in terms of teens, first of all, what I wanna say is it's normal. Like if you look at the data on this, the data is that or the data are that

Katie: 14:07

I don't know.

Joanne: 14:08

I always get that wrong.

Katie: 14:09

The. data be, I'm not sure.

Joanne: 14:11

Exactly the data be that when kids hit their teen years, their average A1C starts really go spiking up and it stays up for a while. And I'm not in any way saying, Go ahead, unclip your seatbelt. These kids are just gonna do it. It's like saying kids drink, you know? No, it's not like you're not gonna message, this isn't safe. I don't approve of this. Right. All the things. But you also have a strategy with them. Like if you do. Please call me. I will pick you up. Right? Whatever yours family strategy is like. You're not stupid, you. you don't just let'em go and close your eyes. And so it's a little bit like that with diabetes. You keep the seatbelt clipped, you keep talking to them about it. You keep the relationship strong enough so that dialogue is reasonable, right? So it's not a fight. And you have some expectation that there's gonna be a period where it's really hard. Because of course it's hard cuz they're teenagers and they have other things to do in their lives that are not diabetes. Right. It's hard to work it all in. So it's a both and it's a both like talking to them about it, recognizing and recognizing that it's normal. And I think I have, my main message with so much is keep the relationship strong so that you can still have these conversations.

Katie: 15:26

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's good. I know. I try to be on the lookout for changes in behavior with my kids. Because most kids don't just come straight out and say, I'm really angry about this, or I'm really worried about this. I just, I look for ways in which, in which they're acting differently. Like my older son is super. For the most part, super social, very laid back, you know? And you know, there, there was a time in his life where he just was all of a sudden just got really short tempered and was snapping at his siblings more and snapping at me more. And anyway, and you know, I, I kind of went to him rather than being like, What is wrong with you? Like, what is going on? Just saying, Hey, I noticed that you are. Acting, you've been acting this way, and that's not like you, I mean, you've always been this, this type of kid and this type of kid. And so I'm just wondering like, is everything okay? Is there something going on that you might be stressed out about or frustrated with? And then he, he, he was able to talk to me, you know, about what was truly bothering him. So I, that's kind of, I have my radar up for that, like, What's, what's different about their behavior that isn't consistent with how they normally, with their baseline,

Joanne: 16:37

Yep. I think that's beautiful and exactly right. I also think that sometimes we come to our kids and say, Hey, what's going on? And they say nothing and that's okay too. Right. You can't expect that every time you're gonna hit it out of the park. And, and as kids get into their team years, they may or may not, like I've had both scenarios with my kids, but they, they might. Wanna share. I still think it's important to lay the groundwork. I am here, I am available and you're kind of planting the seed. There's a, man named Michael rra. I really like his work. He's a parenting, he's written a few parenting books and one thing he said that really stuck with me is you can ask your kid like, Do you wanna do something with me? You can try to join with your kid in lots of ways, a hundred times and out of a hundred, you should expect they say yes twice. Those are pretty, Terrible odds, and they feel bad as a parent, but with some teenage kids, that's true. Right? So I think that what you did with your son is absolutely a hundred percent perfect, and when he's 15, he might blow you off. But eventually, I truly believe that eventually kids come around and they know that it's safe territory when we keep opening ourselves up and making ourselves available to.

Katie: 17:52

Yeah. And that's hard to do, especially when you're tired at the end of the day,

Joanne: 17:55

You got it Katie. It's really hard to do and I, you know, I'm really good at saying this. What?

Katie: 18:01

That's when they wanna talk to you at the end of the day.

Joanne: 18:03

Oh, that's right. They're like junior vampires. Yeah. I totally agree. And, and also we lose our patients right? With like my 14 year old daughter is definitely giving me a run for my money right now around this. And it's hard for me to keep taking a loving. Like, so I wanna acknowledge that I can say this, and I also know how hard it can be to do.

Katie: 18:23

Mm-hmm. What are some of the, in your practice, kind of the ripple effects long term ripple effects of kids that maybe weren't validated in their feelings and emotions as, as a kid? I mean, how does that sometimes translate into adulthood or how they cope with things?

Joanne: 18:42

So that's a real therapy question. Like I have patients in my practice who never felt validated, in fact, felt shamed about what they came forward with, right? Because sometimes we do that with our kids. We're annoyed that they're having an emotional, what feels like a lot of emotion and too much emotion for us. There can be that feeling of like, I didn't do this. You have a nice life. Why are you complaining so much? There can be a lot of that feeling inside of us. And I have patients in my practice who feel so much shame about their own emotion that they kind of either shut down, right and they're not available to their partner, to their kids, to themselves. Or they get really like, again, like a dog with a bone kind of insistent in a way that's really Right. So what I would say is, it's a kind of sophisticated answer, but ultimately what it is, is that in those moments where we, our self talk says that we're not legitimate, Right, because we got messaging that what we're experiencing is not, or how we're behaving is not legitimate, and what we're experiencing is not legitimate in those moments. We're kind of not our best selves and therefore we have trouble relating to other people, right? We have trouble relating to our work. We have trouble, whatever the relational piece is, but it has a ripple effect in that way. Does that answer your question? Does that make sense?

Katie: 20:01

Yeah. I was just curious. I was just curious. You're sure that can manifest in many different ways, yeah, so I mean, I definitely wanna be more aware of the words that I say and how I say them. So maybe let's, let's talk about the formula that you mentioned in the beginning. And I know you know, just how, how do you recommend we kind. Use our words in the right way.

Joanne: 20:22

Mm-hmm..Mm-hmm..So, I wanna back up a second because. There's this concept of a good enough, it actually came up as a good enough mother, but a good enough parent. And, and we worry like thoughtful parents worry a lot about how we say it, how we do it, Are we getting it right? What's fascinating is that the research shows that you get it right. 30% of the time you create a solid attachment with your child. It, the ratios are not, you don't have to get it right. All the. Right. I'm not saying go ahead and get it wrong. I'm not saying unclip your seatbelt. I just wanna, like, we have so much pressure as mothers, as parents, to like always do it, right? And with diabetic kids, how much more are we trying to always get right? And I feel like, let's take a breath. There's lots of times we can get it wrong. And what I, I'm a big believer in apologizing and acknowledging to our children when we've made mistakes. So I just wanna start.

Katie: 21:17

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 21:18

yes, there is language that is helpful. So I think language like, Oh, it makes so much sense that you feel that way. Or I could imagine, right, that when your brother knocks over your castle, you know, like that, that feels bad, right? So any words that Or I can see that you might feel like this. Any language like that is instantly joining, especially if you are able to imagine accurately into what your child's experience is. The other thing is to leave open the asking. And Katie, that's what you did with your son, right? You said, Hey, I'm noticing a change. You normally are like this and I'm noticing this is something going on for you. Is there something I can help with? Right? So if you do imagine in. To check in. Am I getting that right? Like, does that, you know, am I in the right ballpark? I think always checking in like that can be really helpful. And I think to suspend the need to solve the problem, right? Because we often, I mean, that's a certain kind of problem, right? Like when our, when our kids are not boing, for example, we feel a sense of panic that we have to solve it right away. And to, to suspend that even just for a few moments. So that we can hear from them, right? I think some of it is about making room to have the dialogue to make space without jumping to the solution. Because if we're always solution focused, there's just not room for our children to muck around and explore with us what their experience is, and we wanna make room for some of that. We obviously can't live there all the time, but we do need to make some room to hear from.

Katie: 22:52

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 22:53

I, I, think an operating word that's really helpful is curiosity. Like to be curious about what's happening inside for them. Does that, does that answer your question, feel helpful?

Katie: 23:04

Yeah, I think just staying curious, asking questions rather than just shutting that door, you know, with a, So speaking of shutting the door, like what I feel like I can think of one that I've used before. Talk about, you know, not always doing it perfectly, making mistakes, but you know, just saying like, you just need to calm down or something like that. So what are some other. Phrases that kind of like that, that you've heard parents use or maybe you've used in the past that would maybe we should think twice before saying them. And again, I know we're not always gonna do it perfectly and we're gonna

Joanne: 23:34

Also there is limit setting, right? That is all like I think of parenting as a two-pronged task. It's love and. Right. And so this validation piece falls more on the love end, although I do believe that the last, like if the first step of validation is that sentence starter, like it makes sense that you And the second step is because? Because, because, And the third step is the solution And the support. And the support could be practical support, it could be emotional support, it could be limit setting. Right. Our children need that. Otherwise, they actually are feeling around for it because they wanna know what the edges and boundaries are. Children do better when they know what the boundaries are. They don't do well when there are no boundaries. So it is reasonable sometimes to say, You gotta calm down. The question is, does your child have the capacity to do it?

Katie: 24:23

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 24:24

Because they might not, some kids don't have as much capacity to know how to reach into side themselves to get to calm. So they might need more support from you to do that. Right? Like, let's listen to some music, let's, you know, sit and pet the dog, go for a walk, whatever it is. But kids, you know, have to, sometimes we have to provide external scaffolding that they will internalize over time, Right? That's sort of the task. So I don't like to say it's better language, right? But other language might be like, okay, I get it. That why you're so upset, right? Because your kid, your brother just knocked over your castle and your ice cream cone fell on the ground. And all of that is really, really distressing. Let's take a few breaths. So I'm not, I'm not saying that what you're offering isn't a problem. It depends on what the child needs and also what your capacity is. I mean, let's be real. You have three kids, everyone could be exploding at once and you're like, you need to calm down for a minute.

Katie: 25:17

Mm Oh yeah. No, I just send everybody there. When that happens, I just send everybody their rooms.

Joanne: 25:21

Yep. Yep.

Katie: 25:23

Okay. We, we all need to calm

Joanne: 25:24

time. Yeah. We need

Katie: 25:25

down. Mm-hmm. so I don't say anything that I don't mean. I think you will me to do the same. So let's just take 10, 15 minutes and then we'll come back.

Joanne: 25:33

Mm-hmm. Well, and that's so good because what you're saying to them is there is space for.

Katie: 25:39

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 25:39

breathe for a moment and, and I love that you say, and we'll come back because the distressing thing for a child would be if something happens, right? That's upsetting to them and nobody ever comes back, so they're left alone with it. If you say, Let's get a little bit of space and we're gonna come back, they know that there's spaciousness enough to breathe there and then it still gets held and supported that, that feels really beautiful and important to.

Katie: 26:03

Hmm. It does not always feel really beautiful and

Joanne: 26:07

I know that Katie, I know it firsthand.

Katie: 26:10

My least favorite. This is not even diabetes related, but my least favorite. Well, maybe not. I would have to really think about what my least favorite thing about being a parent is. But I, oh my gosh. When my kids come to me and are blaming each other, like, so and so did this and so and so, if I did not actually see the incident, I don't know. I don't know who to believe because I love my kids, but kids can also lie to me or exaggerate to

Joanne: 26:32

Exaggerate. Mm-hmm.

Katie: 26:33

Exaggerate. Yeah, it's probably the better word, but so I don't, again, those, those are usually the situations where I'm like, I'm, I know. I did not see the, what happened? I didn't hear it. I didn't see it. So, but it for sure feels like everybody's very angry and frustrated right now. So let's take 10 or 15 minutes. You go to your room. You go to your room. I will sit here. I just need to calm down for a minute. I, I don't, I hate playing the referee and I try not to do that as

Joanne: 26:57

Yeah. It's really hard to let them work it out when they're so young and they don't have any skills to be generous with each other for, there's no compromise when you're, whatever the ages are that, you know, it's hard.

Katie: 27:07

Yeah. That is, It's very hard. Yeah. Okay. So what are some things like some blocks or hindrances to validation where people kind of maybe struggle to be able to validate their kids' emotions or their own emotions?

Joanne: 27:20

Mm, those are different. They're kids' emotions, their own emotions. So let me take their kids' emotions first, cuz I think that's a little easier to tackle. I think there are few things that can get in the way. One is when you have a very ill behaved child and you are angry, it is hard to love our children when we're pissed with them, right when they're doing. That are, that are gnarly, right? So it's hard because it's hard to step into anyone's perspective when they're not likable, right? So that's when it's helpful to have a partner. If you can get a little bit of room right, If your partner has a slightly different perspective, if you can step back and try to imagine into their perspective that can, that can be one moment that it's really hard. Another moment that's hard, and I referenced this before, is when You feel like your kid has privileges and they can't see them? Right. So an example from my life is my son was diagnosed and he got really angry, like he was up in my face, this totally sweet child. I mean, there was one night he was yelling inches from my face and he actually was low and he needed to treat that low and he wouldn't. He was just screaming at. And actually I turned to my husband and said, Okay, you need to take this. Like, I, I couldn't do it anymore. I remember feeling like he should have been grateful that he had insulin cuz I had this big, broad perspective though, like he could be dead and he wasn't. And actually a fellow therapist said, not right now. You know, we get these ideas that our children should understand something bigger about their lives and themselves, but we have to understand that they're still having their own experience. But that's a hard hurdle to jump. And I've definitely worked with parents who are like, Why is she complaining? Right? And they, and some, you know, like I had it harder, for example, I walked uphill to school both ways, and she walks flat, whatever it is. And so we can have a hard time. Really wanting to feel into their experience, but it's still their experience. Right? And so I think those are pretty big hurdles. And then with ourselves, it's that is such a tricky question, Katie, but I think, you know, it really depends on, Like who I'm talking to, but I think that people have a hard time. Diabetes makes us feel vulnerable and burdensome. And so we have a hard time kind of Reaching out for the support that we need and feeling like it's valid and legitimate. I think like I don't hear that in you, but I do hear that in many, many newly diagnosed families, like they don't wanna burden other people. And so there's something in that that we're not validating the work, the need for support. All the things that are just human needs that we have. I think that adults can spend a lot of time invalidating their own experience, and it can come from a lot of different places, but I would say from a place of often shame about not feeling adequate enough.

Katie: 30:13

Mm. I I feel like the second hurdle you talked about spoke to me the most for both my kids and for me personally. Just the one about you know, kind of like feeling like why the, the bigger picture one where you, like, why, why are you complaining? Like there's starving kids in, in, you know, other countries And you have a great life and you know, cuz I, I do fall into that trap of being like, Oh my gosh, seriously, you're complaining about this? Like, you're, you have it so good and you don't even realize it. So that can be a hurdle for me. And then even within my own internal dialogue, that can be a hurdle for me of like, you know, Katie, why, why are you complaining about this? Like,

Joanne: 30:48

Right? Yeah.

Katie: 30:50

you know, just suck it up. You're, you, you have a great life. You have so many things to be, you know grateful for. So I can, I.

Joanne: 30:57

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 30:58

I can I struggle with that on, on both friends,

Joanne: 31:00

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 31:02

Yeah.

Joanne: 31:02

super consistent, right? Like sometimes the way we come towards our children is the place that we're most challenged internally for ourselves. Right. And that's what comes forward because we're, we're struggling with it for ourselves, right? And we can always, there's always someone who's worse off, right? There's a war in Ukraine. Those people have no electricity, no medication access, no blah, blah, blah. Why are you complaining that you've got this cereal and your brother got that cereal? Like, you know, we really struggle. And that's real. You know, there's a concept in psychotherapy of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? That you know you know, first, I don't remember exactly what it is. You could Google it, but you know, first you have need for food and shelter. Then you have need for, and then, you know, end up at the top of that pyramid is like, need for self fulfillment. It doesn't, change our relationship to those challenges, though. They're all the same. It's just a different question of like where you are on that hierarchy of.

Katie: 31:56

Interesting. I really appreciate what you said about, you know, Those perceived or those struggles, even though they might be higher up on the hierarchy, hierarchy of needs, is that what you call it? Um, They're still real and they're still present and they still deserve to be addressed. You know, even if it's not as seemingly severe as, you know, I, I don't have food and water and shelter and things like that.

Joanne: 32:21

Absolutely

Katie: 32:22

I think I have, I remember that. I have to remember that as. Friend a lot just, you know, just with my friends, you know, cuz because their struggles, you know, they might be going through this struggle that I'm not going through and I'm obviously over here going through whatever struggle I'm currently dealing with and I have to remind myself that like, Okay. My struggle might seem bigger or you know, more important I guess to me because it's my life and it's very real for me, but I need to remember that theirs to them is just as important and, Deserves to be recognized as well

Joanne: 32:54

you're talking about something actually super important for diabetic parents. For parents of diabetic kids. I never know quite how to say that cuz I don't like diabetic so much, but Because we are struggling so much, right? We have many more sleepless nights. We have a lot more stress about our kids' safety, physical safety in a way that the average parent or the parent of, you know, even you with your non-type one kids have less stress about those things than you do with your daughter. But the question is how to hold that with our.

Katie: 33:23

Mm.

Joanne: 33:24

Right. And that's hard because often we feel not seen by them, right? That they're not leaning far enough into our experience. And that's tricky. And then there can be some resentment. Like if I have friends who say to me, I'm so tired. There's a little conversation that goes on in my head about trying to stand down. My idea of tired, right? Because for years I was like massively sleep deprived, cuz I didn't have any of the technology that I have now. So I'm not as massively sleep deprived as I used to be. But you know, back in those days if someone said they were tired, I felt like biting their head off, right? So I think you're talking about something really important and I think it takes a deeper friendship to be able to talk that stuff.

Katie: 34:05

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 34:06

to be able to say, Hey, I'm needing this from you. Or Hey, you know, sometimes when you say that, I just want you to know that I, that I toggle to a hard place Right. Those are deep friends for us to be able to say those things, but that's real. I think as type one parents, that is very real.

Katie: 34:20

Yeah. No, I would agree. And we were, we're gonna do an entire episode on relationships and how those relationships can be stressed when you have a Type one diagnosis. So we'll probably hit on that a little bit more I would imagine. Before we sign off for today, is there anything else about validation that we didn't hit that you think might be important for listeners to hear? And you can say, No,

Joanne: 34:39

Yeah. No, I don't think so. I mean, I guess the only thing that comes to mind is, is, and I sort of pointed to it already, is like, don't knock yourself up. Don't, don't beat yourself up for. Not getting it right. Right. Like you're practicing your, the fact, anyone listening to this, anyone thinking about this is just doing such a beautiful job of moving themselves along in their parenting journey. And we try and we fail and we try again and we talk to somebody about how we failed and how to make it better. And just keep trying, keep playing with your parenting tools and like this is one of.

Katie: 35:11

Mm-hmm. Okay. Well thank you so much Joanne. So many such great advice. I really love talking with you. I feel, I feel very fortunate cause I do feel like I get my own little mini therapy session.

Joanne: 35:21

I'm so glad you feel that way, Katie. I, it's a delight to be with you. Thanks.

Katie: 35:24

Yes. Oh, you're very welcome. Yeah. I feel like this podcast has been very cathartic for me just to kind of talk everything through and hear everybody's thoughts and opinions. It's definitely helpful for my soul, for sure.

Joanne: 35:36

Good

Katie: 35:36

All right. Well, have a fabulous day and I know we will be talking again soon.

Joanne: 35:39

Thanks, Katie.

Katie: 35:44

All right. You guys, that is it for our show today. I hope you enjoyed that. Awesome chat with Joanne. Be sure to check out my other episode with Joanne that just came out last week. That's episode 88. On anxiety. And dealing with the anxiety that comes along with being the parent of a type one diabetic. Next week's episode. And the episode after that, we'll both also be with Joanne. I'm so excited to have her back on. And again, be sure to check out her website, diabetes. Sweet talk.com. All right, you guys have a fabulous week. I will chat with you soon, but until then stay calm and bolus on. Bye.