#90 All those Feelings and Emotions that come along with a Type 1 Diagnosis with Joanne Robb

There are a TON of feelings and emotions that come along with getting a type 1 diabetes diagnosis for your child. Listen in to today's episode as Joanne Robb and I talk about dealing with anger, shame, resentment, sadness and more. 

Being the parent or caregiver to a child living with type 1 diabetes can come with a lot of emotional, mental and relational challenges.  Joanne is such a great resource for parents and caregivers of type 1 diabetics. In her practice, coaching courses and podcast, she primarily deals with the emotional and relational challenges that come along with managing T1D day in and day out. Check out all the links below to find Joanne! Enjoy!

For JOANNE'S WEBSITE click HERE.  Click on the dark purple banner at the top of the page to be a guest on her podcast and have your questions answered! You'll also find a direct link to the podcast itself.

OTHER EPISODES YOU MIGHT ENJOY
Early episode on Anxiety
The Grief and the Trauma of a T1D Diagnosis
Working through Anxiety with Psychotherapist and T1D mom, Joanne Robb
Validation: What is it and how do we do it well? with Joanne Robb

Transcript

Katie: 0:00

This is episode 90 of the sugar mamas podcast. And you are in for a treat today. I am back with Joanne And today we're going to be talking about all those feelings and emotions that come along with being the caregiver for somebody living with type one diabetes. There's a lot of emotions, guys. Uh, lots of big feelings and big emotions that we've got to walk through and work through as the parent of a type one diabetic. Just a reminder that Joanne was on the previous two episodes with me. The first one episode, 88 was on anxiety. And then the second one she did with me was episode 89. And that was on validation. What is it? And how do we do it? Well, Joanne is a psychotherapist and a fellow T one D parent. She has three kids, two of which have been living with type one diabetes for quite some time. Joanne has her therapy practice in the state of California. But she also offers coaching courses. For parents and caregivers of type one diabetics. Nationwide. You can also check out and register for her coaching courses on our website. Again, that's diabetes. Sweet talk.com. Be sure to click the dark purple banner at the top of the page where you can submit your questions to be answered by Joanne. And you can even be a guest on her podcast, which is sweet. Talk for parents of kids with type one diabetes. Just in case you were concerned, you can always submit a question anonymously. I just love Joanne. I love what she's doing. I love her podcast. I just think she's such a gym for the type one community and is going to help so many people. Okay. Without further ado, let's get started. You're listening to the sugar mamas podcast, a show designed for moms and caregivers of type one diabetics here. You'll find a community of like-minded people who are striving daily to keep their kids safe, happy, and healthy in the ever-changing world of type one. I'm your host and fellow T one D mom, Katie Roseboro. Before we get started. I need you to know that nothing you hear on the sugar mamas podcast should be considered medical advice. Please be safe, be smart, and always consult your physician before making changes to the way you manage type one diabetes. Thanks. All right. I am back this week with Joanne. Rob, just a reminder, Joanne is a psychotherapist. She's also a type one mama of two kids with type one diabetes and one other child that does not have type one diabetes.

Joanne: 2:44

We like to remember that.

Katie: 2:45

Child Right. Exactly. We can't forget the other child. and in Joanne's practice and in the courses that she offers for type one parents, she deals primarily with the emotional and relational challenges that come along with managing Type one diabetes day in and day out. And Joanne, I was curious before we started recording, I don't know if you've ever said it. Do you work just with parents and caregivers of Type one diabetics or do you also work with some T1 DS?

Joanne: 3:12

So in my coaching courses I only work with parents. Mm-hmm. But in my practice I work with a wide range of things. Like I'm actually a certified couples therapist and I work with adults with Type one, and I work with eating disorders and I work with a whole range of things in my private practice. But in my coaching courses, yes, it's just for parents of kids with. Got it.

Katie: 3:32

Okay. All right. So Joan and I have already done two episodes. The first one, was on anxiety and just navigating anxiety, and through the lens of managing type one. And then, last one was on validation. Just what is validation and how to do it well. And today we are talking about all the feelings and emotions that can come along with, being the parent of someone with type one diabetes. So, I think what we're gonna do is just kind of go down the list of maybe common emotions and feelings and just kind of talk through. You know, how those might be experienced by different people, what that might look like, and then how to validate those emotions. Okay. Right? Yep. Yeah. Okay. So we're gonna start with anger, which. A big one. You know, I, I think a lot of kids, I know my daughter definitely has moments where she feels very angry at Type one diabetes. She's pretty, she's pretty quiet person, so she doesn't really express that by like, throwing things against the wall or yelling at people. But, you know, I, I kind of see it in her. So, I guess unwillingness to do things to take care of her diabetes, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don't know if you would call that procrastination or maybe just denial, but she just, I guess, gets burned out and angry at diabetes and, and doesn't wanna do it, so. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How have you experienced anger with your kids and with the parents of people? You, you know, the parents that you've helped in your mm-hmm. through your courses. Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 4:56

So, it's interesting because when I think about anger I don't think that as being the primary presentation for most parents, Right. The primary presentation for most parents has to do with sadness, I think, and guilt and some fear. Mm-hmm. recently ish. Actually I was working with a couple and the dad was really angry. Very, very newly diagnosed. And I do think that there can be a gender difference here, right? Because for men, anger is just coded as more appropriate culturally than for. But for the kids. Absolutely. Katie for the kids anger is can be a really primary presentation. Mm-hmm. and I wanna name that burnout and anger don't necessarily always go together. So you're saying for your daughter, you know, you see burnout and procrastination. I don't think that only could be led from anger. There could be other things there. Just plain old exhaustion, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. But um, I think. And this references what we recorded for our last epi, my last episode with you is I think it's about validating it, right? Mm-hmm. they have every reason to be angry that this thing got heaped on them. And that, you know, I think sometimes about primary emotion versus secondary emotion. So the way I think about this is if I were a fly on the wall looking at what was happening, what would I. And in your daughter's case, what I would see is procrastination and not wanting to, But what you're saying, and I trust you, right, because you know her so well, you're in the room with her. You've lived with her so long. Is that underneath that, the primary emotion that's driving it is anger? Mm-hmm. For adults, I often think the anger is the secondary motion. It's the thing I would see if I were a fly on the wall. Mm-hmm. But underneath it is likely. Right. Does that make

Katie: 6:35

sense? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I'll be, to be quite honest, I don't know. I don't know what the primary emotion that she's experiencing is. I mean, I don't know that I've ever just come out and asked her, Hey, what are you feeling right now that that'd probably be a good place to start, Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 6:51

And kids don't always know how to answer that question, so sometimes we take suppositions, we like make a little guess, and we say, I wonder if you ever feel angry about this. Like it would make so much. Right, so that she gets a lot of permission for that feeling cuz kids often can't link up what they're feeling on the inside with the words and the concept that we have of what that emotion is, right.

Katie: 7:10

Yeah, I'm, I'm wondering where we should go from here. Like, I wanna, I kind of wanna talk more about anger. But where, where do you think, what do you think we should talk about next in terms of anger?

Joanne: 7:19

Well, it's interesting cuz this list, this is also me just talking to you, this list. I feel like when you say, How are we gonna validate all these feelings, I feel like it's kind of the same drum. that really all of them makes sense. And that parents come to all of the, you know, we each, it's like those stages of grief, which I'm not, you know, Kuer Ross's stages of grief, which I'm not gonna quite remember all of them, but there's anger negotiation, mourn. Mm-hmm. sadness. It's, it's the same thing. And I think we cycle through these feelings over and over. I think the way I picture this often is it's like a spiral. It's like it, it comes up, it gets easier and easier, but we still hit the same emotions again and again. Mm-hmm. right? There's a moment where you're on, I'm thinking of a moment with My son, we were on vacation and we were scuba diving, not scuba diving, snorkeling, and I knew he was low, like I had no evidence for it. I just was like watching him in the water. I was in a boat and I was like, He's not safe right now. And so I had the people in the boat. Roll me over to him and I had him stick his finger in the boat and I dried it off and I did the finger stick and I was right. He was low. And there's this feeling of like deep sadness that that has to be part of our life. And we were years into diagnosis by then. Mm-hmm. I think, I feel like, you know, when my daughter was diagnosed, I remember weeping of all things because I was like, How will she wear a wedding dress like this? She was four years old and this was the thing in the front of my mind, So I feel like we cycle through these emotions and mm. Our kids do too, right? They cycle through anger, they cycle through sadness, they cycle through exhaustion. They cycle through all these places. So with a, I guess that could be on, but like the, where do you go from here? It's confusing because like there's just a whole jumble of feelings that come up. Yeah. And I think some of the task is to give ourselves permission. that does that they're normal.

Katie: 9:04

Yeah. Well, and that's probably a great place to go with that because you know, as I kind of paused and thought like. I think that was really my hesitation is that I really just kind of dawned on me like just now that you can't, it's hard to isolate these emotions. Yeah. Because they're often just together. and you, you're right. Like I know that I can personally cycle in and out of many of them. Often quickly, usually quickly. Yep. And a lot of times it's maybe even during an activity that is, you know, labeled as a happy activity. Like you just mentioned. You guys are, you're on vacation, you're or out for a family outing. You're scuba diving, you're experiencing something new and fun, but yet there's this. Moment of like a way, like a little wave, Like a little wave of sadness. Yeah. Like a reminder that oh, this is what it is. And I hate that for my kid. Yeah. We ha I had a similar experience at Sarah's at our birthday party last year. You know, we went to a little like arts and craft place where they did like woodworking and then they got to paint it and all that. And there was another friend there with diabetes. But you know, I just remember like. When the food came out, like we had to you know, I had to go around and tell her, like how, remind her how many carbs were in the cupcake and she had to get out her controller and do the, you know, do the insulin for the pump. And, and you know, you, it's not like, it's not like the record. The music stopped and everything was silent and everybody stopped to stare at her. But you know, you. There's definitely a feeling of like, people are looking and people have stopped and people know that this is something different that she has to do, that most of the other people in the room don't have to do. and I didn't like focus on, focus on that really like, you know, I just, we just kind of, Okay, there's 30 cards in this cupcake but I just remember having this very brief moment of just feeling so. Sad, like almost like a little mini session of grieving all over again, the life that mm-hmm. we have lost from before diagnosis. Yeah. But you know, in the overall scheme of thing, that was a very happy event.

Joanne: 10:57

No. And I, I love, I love Katie that you're so attuned to yourself, right. That you can. Know that it's there because I think that's the most real, Like at the beginning there's big feelings generally, right? There's big feelings of panic, there's big feelings of, you know anxiety. There's, there's feelings of sadness. I, I see a lot of guilt. Which breaks my heart, honestly. A lot of moms in particular who feel like, if I had breast fed more, if I hadn't fed this, if I hadn't done this thing, if I, you know, and I feel like it, you know, we can beat ourselves up till the cows come home, but none of that's actually proven or real. And it just feels like, I wish for those parents that they could set that behind them. Like we just need to look forward, which is easier said than done, but You know, there are those big, big feelings at the beginning, and then as we move through our lives with our kids managing this, I think the feelings get to be less. It's almost like you're looking through a telescope backwards. Right. It's not bringing it into sharp focus. It's far away, but it's still with us. Mm-hmm. and it's not with us always, but it's still with us often. and we cycle around and around, and. I think those feelings are real. And for the kids, I think it's the same thing, right? I think that's what, I haven't done an exhaustive thinking about this, but like burnout, I'm gonna put that in quotes. Like I think that and I'm putting in quotes cuz I think that there's exhaustion with it and then people get reinvigorated and then they're exhausted again. Like, it's not, it's not a constant state. It's like everything is fluid and changing and, and the emotions shift.

Katie: 12:24

Yeah. And it's probably not fair to compare diabetes management to like going on a diet, but I can, when you said that, it just makes me think of going on a diet. You know, you, you get motivated and you're like, I'm gonna do this. It's gonna be awesome. And then you start and it's like, you know, usually very restrictive. And then you get tired of it and sick of it, and you really want a cheeseburger, and so you kinda get burned out. Then you might come back to it in a couple months or whatever the case may be, but mm-hmm.

Joanne: 12:48

But Yeah. You know, that's such a, that's such an interesting example because the research on diets is that they don't work. But with diabetes we don't have a choice but to make it work. And so I think the kids I see who do. Who have a particularly positive relationship to it? Not always, but they, their, their parents actually often get them involved in studies and they change technology a lot. And so they're really fluent with all kinds of different ways of relating to it so that they can keep it fresh. Right. If you put on a different pump or if you changed it injections or if you use different insulins or like, I interviewed someone recently who uses. she's gotta be in her late twenties and she uses a lot of different insulins depending on what she eats. And I'm like, Wow, okay. That's like beyond my pay grade for sure. But it keeps her really fresh. I, I think those are ways that we can help our kids is, you know, trying a new pump or getting them in a study if it's available to us. I mean, I know not everyone lives in those places where that is, but I think that, you know, community connection, all those things keep it reinvigorated because it's not a diet. They don't have a.

Katie: 13:51

Yeah. I know. I feel I get a little a little bit more invigorated when we do switch it up a little bit, you know, like, switch to a different system or maybe we'll try a new insulin or whatever. That does invigorate me. I can't, I can't speak for Sarah, but and that's probably a good thing to keep in mind too, for families that go to their endocrinologist and want to try something new but are hesitant to ask maybe. This is not a, a healthy emotion by any means, but, you know, there's been times where I'm like, I almost feel bad asking because I'm like, I know y'all are busy and you gotta fill out all this paperwork and you might have to send in a prior authorization, but like, we really wanna try this. And but that would be a good way to maybe talk to your endocrinologist to it. Like, Hey, we're kind of feeling like we're in a rut and I'm trying something new. Would really help to kind of like shift our perspective and, and maybe give us a little bit more energy than we're currently dealing with. And, and we might not stick with it, but I think it would help even just mentally, emotionally to try, try something new and get shaken out, shaken out of the mundane, you know? Yep.

Joanne: 14:50

I think that's actually a great idea. Hadn't thought about it like that. And I wanna encourage you to think about, to me, that's your, I I, I find this with a lot of parents too, that there's a hesitation to ask for the help that they need. And I feel like you, in your story, Katie, seem like you have a lot of family support. Mm-hmm. a lot of parents don't. Right. And so they hesitate to even ask for the community support that they need and that, Right. Mm-hmm. but also the endocrinologist support. Mm-hmm. like, we need it, we deserve it, and we need to find a team where we feel comfortable asking for what we need so that we can, you know, track of our emotional health as well as our kids'. Physical health.

Katie: 15:27

Um, And I might approach it, I'm actually currently advocate for less annual visits at our Oh yeah. Onologist, because they want us to come every three months. And I mean, listen, I just think that's excessive personally, especially if we have good control. But that might be a good way to approach it too. Like, Hey, we like are feeling burned out. Like we, we have good control, but like coming here every three months is a little exhausting. Can we please, Go back, you know, take, take a little bit of that away. I don't know. We'll see. Yeah. I'm getting some push back in that area, but that's for another episode. Perhaps

Joanne: 15:58

I I would listen to that episode. I'm, I'm having the same struggle,

Katie: 16:02

Yeah. Its okay. So I kinda wanna talk a little bit about the guilt, mm-hmm. that you mentioned earlier. You know, a lot of. I'm very thankful that that actually is not something that I struggled with and I don't really know why that is. My personality maybe, but I ne I didn't, I never got stuck on the. Oh my gosh, I gave this to my child. Or, you know, something in our, I can tell you for sure that there are lots of autoimmune disorders in our family. I have one, my sister has one, my mom has one. I mean, there's, there's a strong history of autoimmune disorders. So, and Sarah knows that cuz she has asked like, where did I get diabetes from? And I'm like, Well, nobody gave you diabetes. Just something that happened. I said, but we do have a very strong history of autoimmune disorders and type one is also an autoimmune disorder. And you know, we kind of talked about that a little bit, but I don't, I don't know, It's, I've never felt guilt about that because it's ju I just feel like it's out of my control. Mm-hmm. And there's really what can be done. Nothing. Nothing can be done to change. what has happened? So how, how do you, when somebody comes to you and is just feeling, just burdened with this huge, you know, weight of guilt over their kid's diagnosis, how do you help them through that?

Joanne: 17:08

Well, it's interesting with any feeling, right? When some, And also it depends if they're coming as a therapist or as a coach, like my hats are slightly different. But in general, what I would say is you can't talk people out of their feelings. Mm-hmm. right? Like, I'm with you. I didn't. I didn't feel guilty. And actually with my daughter, I had some good reasons too. Like I had a thyroid condition. I had to take medication through my pregnancy with her. So it feels like it was even more of a setup for her. Mm-hmm. Right. But I also feel like she wouldn't be here if I hadn't made those choices. So, you know, those, those are, the gift was she got to have her life and the bad thing was that, you know, she has diabetes in her life. Mm-hmm. And, and I'm not, I, I wouldn't say I'm responsible for it, but certainly the genetics are there and I had to take this medication and all those things. Right? Yeah. But somehow that's not where I go. And you can't talk someone out of it, right? You can. Mm-hmm. you can't talk someone out of any feeling that they have. Really what you can do is validate it and gently point to the places where you think their thinking might be flawed. Right. So, I'm trying to think of another example other than guilt, but. But I guess let's stay with guilt. I think, I think that guilt also comes from a place as a parent of imagining that you can create a perfect problem free life for your child. Mm-hmm. Right. Which is just not real. And we do want that for our kids. We hate to watch them suffer in any way. And with type one, we know there's plenty of extra kid suffering that's happening mm-hmm. But we can't make that happen for our children. We can't make it. middle school is easy, let's say, or that they're gonna get straight A's in high school and never suffer that. No one ever says anything mean to them. Mm-hmm. this is part we all get kind of forged in fire. And so I think it's really just recognizing and sitting with somebody's emotion while you sort of gently point to the fact that there are some other pieces and ways for them to recalibrate the emotion, right? Mm-hmm. there are other, there's other data that they could take in about what they're feeling that might help, right? Mm-hmm. And I think to point out to someone who feels guilty, like, yeah, it makes sense, right? You don't want your child to suffer like this, and you feel like somehow you were omniscient, you had all the power. And you could have kept them from from this disease and that we both know that's not real. Mm-hmm. right? Cause that's where it comes from, is this idea. And I think especially first children, we really do have an idea that we can protect them. Mm-hmm. Right? That we are all powerful, we can protect them. And diabetes is a big slam around that one. Right? Cuz we can't, and we, we aren't Yeah.

Katie: 19:42

Yeah, absolutely. Hmm. Yeah, I mean, again, I'm very thankful that I have never felt weighed down by that guilt, but I know a lot, I see it a lot in social media postings of just people just feeling like it's their fault, you know? Yeah. Just can't get past that. And usually that comes kind of right at the beginning, like you said, when there's all these big emotions and, and whatnot. All right. Let's see you. Okay, so on the list I had anger, sadness. Mm-hmm. guilt, fear and worry. Mm-hmm. Grief, resentment. and shame. Whew. Yeah. I mean, I can, I can relate to all of these some more so than others. Not, not so much the guilt one. I know I just talked about that, but, But the, like, for instance, the fear and worry, I know I've already expressed to you that like, I don't worry a lot about her medical state, like her physical medical state, which I probably should worry more about it, but but I worry more about like the emotional toll and the, I just think about myself as a mom. It's hard to be a mom, It doesn't matter if your kids have chronic medical conditions or have nothing at all. It's, it's just parenting is just hard. So I think about that and then you throw on like one day she's gonna be hope, hopefully God willing, be a mom managing her family and then also managing type one and hope, you know, by that time it'll hopefully be very, Routine for her and you know, just something that is done. You know, kind of like just how you would you know, you brush your teeth a couple times a day. Again, it's not fair to compare the two because there's a lot more involved with type one management. But I think, you know what I'm trying to say. Thank, do.

Joanne: 21:12

Yeah. I think that that's, I, I actually, we've, you said that to me in a different time. We've gathered about being worried about your daughter's mental health and mm-hmm. you know, I, I suspect Katie, you're taking very good care of her physical health mm-hmm. Right? And as that's getting even more and more routine, You know, you're saying you don't need to go to the doctor four times a year. There's a reason for that. Right? You don't need the handholding of it. You feel like her numbers are basically in good control and it's, it's enough. Like you don't need all the appointments and the expense and all the things. But you're right that the emotional piece is heavy You're focusing on what I think is real, which is that there are gonna be some extra weights for her and there's some. Worry that you have, you know, you're a mom of three, you know how busy you are, and then you think about adding, like, how would one add blood sugar control into this? You know, it feels like a lot. And I'm, I think it, I think it is. Mm-hmm. so that makes sense to me that you think about that. And there, I think that woven in there though, you're identifying it as like, you, you, you led to this story from fear. Mm-hmm. but I hear in there sadness, mourn. Mm-hmm. right, Because it is, And that, and that's why I think it's kind of like there's often not one clean emotion. It's often a jumble of things. That are in the soup when we think about our kids with diabetes. As parents.

Katie: 22:30

Yeah. And that literally dawned on me 10 or so minutes ago when I started talking about it. I'm like, Wait, I can't isolate. There's, there's like lots of emotions going on all at once. Yeah, no, you're, I think there's, I'm, I've said this before too, that definitely the primary motion I feel like I can identify throughout this whole thing has been just sadness and I don't spit in it. And so in it, Yep. All the time. Not by any means, but I just have waves and usually when they're, when I have waves, it's a, it's a feeling of sadness. So, no fun, fun. No fun. Um, Resentment

Joanne: 22:59

is one that kind of mm-hmm. Yeah. I wanna pull that up cuz I feel like that's one that not a lot of parents are gonna talk about. Mm-hmm. Right? Especially about with their child. They're gonna talk about it in terms of their doctor, in terms of insurance, in terms of a lot of other things. Right. Because there's lots of ways to be resentful in those things. Mm-hmm. but sometimes we actually get resentful of our kids too. Mm-hmm. And I think that that can happen more when they're teenagers, when we know that I've asked them or trying to get them to do the thing, whatever it is, and they don't do the thing. Mm-hmm. and then we're up all night because of it, or we're worrying more because of it. And that can, that, that's real. Right. And I think resentment can really be in there. I, I would say resentment is like a first cousin to anger, right? They're really the same, in the same bucket. And we do get angry at our children. We also get angry at the disease, right? Because it derails us think of how much more we could do in our lives that we could choose for ourselves if we didn't have this monkey on our back.

Katie: 24:01

Yeah. I know I've. I've been dealing with like some resentment with work lately. It's hard to be a parent of a type one and then also be always available for your job and your career. Mm-hmm. It's really hard to be mom and be always be for your job in your career. But yeah, no, I feel that. I feel that in several. Y Yeah. Ways just, you know even like you touched on it in another episode about when somebody, even just in passing, like a flippant comment of like a friend saying, Oh, I'm so tired, and you, you just kind of immediately go to this place in your head where you're like, If you only knew and I don't wanna feel that way. And I, and I don't wanna feel that resentment and that, you know, anger. and I, I don't think we're all, you know, maybe we'll never be immune to that. But I think there's certainly some healthier ways to deal with it,

Joanne: 24:44

well, I think it's hard and I think it takes time, you know, and I think, Like I don't get as angry about it as like reactive internally when people do that to me now. And I'm trying to actually think why that is. And I think part of it is that I'm just really comfortable in my seat that, yeah, this is what I got. I am managing this the best I can. The rest of the world really doesn't understand this. Some people get it better than other people, right? Mm-hmm. Right? And I've also done more work to take better care of. So that I do feel less resentment when people just talk about their own normal lives, right? Mm-hmm. Cause as you said, being a parent is hard no matter what, and it is,

Katie: 25:20

Agreed. Well, and I feel, do some work in myself to be genuinely happy for people, celebrating them in all walks of life, you know? Yeah. I, I wanna celebrate people when something good happens for them, or, I want to be happy for them, you know, that they don't have to deal with us on a daily basis. Mm-hmm. does that, does that make sense? Absolutely. So, I mean, you know, I, people kind of get to that point in different ways. For me, it's taken a lot of prayer, in practice and so yeah, I mean it's, I don't know. These are just very real emotions.

Joanne: 25:53

Yeah, they are. And I. I think you're pointing to something, and this is like, this is just us talking as two people. This isn't like a therapy concept really, but I feel like the question somehow becomes like, who is your best person? Who, who do you wanna be? I guess that is a little bit of a therapy concept. We have this idea of like our best, the best self. You know, but it's hard with diabetes sometimes to be our best self. There's a lot that, there's more that gets in the way, let's say it that way. I think that it's always hard, like living life is challenging. Mm-hmm. And it's more challenging when we have this monkey that keeps, you know, weighing us down. I mean, I remember one day paying the bill for the kids, whatever supplies I have no idea. And thinking. Wow. If I had, I could go on a vacation. Like it just think, I don't, and I don't like to think about it because I think I'd be so angry mm-hmm. that I'm spending all this money on something that I don't want. Mm-hmm. wasn't budgeted for all the things. I mean, that's a small example,

Katie: 26:47

but, right. Yeah. Yeah. What about um, shame shame's on?

Joanne: 26:51

shame is tricky and I, I I have a friend who actually was super generous to us. She has a daughter who is in my daughter's class in elementary and middle school, and a bunch of years ago, this is pre pandemic, so you know, whatever, pick a date. She said to me, It must be really hard. Your daughter can't really go on a sleepover like she attended to my experience in a way that was completely lovely and she. I'll take her. And I was like, But you'll lose in night to sleep. She's like, I don't mind. Hmm. Which was amazing. And she took her for a few sleepovers and then ironically, and sadly, her son who was older, got diagnosed. Oh wow. Yeah. Really am kind of a weird A weird turn of events. And I remember taking my daughter to her house after he had been diagnosed and she had had whatever she had had for breakfast, and she was 350, you know, because we hadn't dosed right for it, whatever it was. And I remember having this big hit of shame because my friend was new enough that, first of all, her son was still in h. Everyone was behav, you know, everything was weighed and measured. Everything was, you know, and I'm so far past that, that we make lots of mistakes. Mm-hmm. And so I had this hit of shame of like, Oh, she's gonna judge me cause I'm not doing a good enough job of managing. And I really had to talk myself down from that. I mean, I don't think that's a primary way that shame shows up, but I think it, I think it can be like, I think there's this I, and I think that, You know, out there in uh, social media land, right? There's so much talk about like having the perfect flat line, having the perfect a1c, and that one kills me because there's, I, I don't know what the research is actually like. If you have an a1c that's 5.7, is your life appreciably different than if you have an A1C of seven as a type one? Mm-hmm. I, I just don't know what the research is, but I feel like people are in a state of feeling inadequate, which isn't quite the same as shame, but if they, if it's shown mm-hmm. they feel shame, Right. And that just makes me so sad for parents because I feel like we are struggling enough. Or you feel shame cuz your kid isn't doing what your kid should be doing. As though we have full control over our children all the time, which we absolutely do not. But I think those are ways that shame can show up and, and it can, I wouldn't call this shame exactly, but this references back to something we talked about earlier. It's about like, not getting the help you need, Right? Like I'm burdening you. And that is a thing I hear a lot. There's a, in, in my coach, one of my coaching courses, I have a whole flow chart of all the things you might say to yourself mm-hmm. about how you're not allowed to get help and support how you might be burdening people and all the things you could say back to yourself. Right. Because it, it, there's this idea that we should be sort of perfectly independent and it's a little bit to the side of shame, but it, I think it's related.

Katie: 29:34

Yeah. I do feel like I've gotten a lot better about asking for, for help. And that's, that's a humbling experience for Oh, yeah. For a lot of people. Cause you, want to give the impression that you've got it under control, right? But sometimes you just gotta, you gotta ask for the help. But, and I'm very fortunate to have a fantastic support system in mm-hmm. the city that I'm in with family and friends. So, I feel very fortunate in that. But yeah, I had that, I think I talked about it on the first podcast or at some point in time talking to you, but I had that experience of shame when we went to the endocrinologist last time because yes, we, I mean, I've never shown up to an endocrinology appointment with my daughter's blood sugar in the three s and here we were and, you know, I felt like embarrassed almost. Yeah. Or like, I don't, I don't know what the word is. Shame I guess would be the word. Um, but I recognize that the good thing is that I recognize that, that like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling this way and there's really no reason why I should be feeling this way. Because things get forgotten. People make mistakes, and just not every day's gonna be perfect. So I remember. Trying to make a very conscious effort to like not show that on my face or with my words. And cuz I didn't want, I didn't want my daughter to feel I mean, you know, I didn't want her to feel ashamed. I actually texted one of my good friends who has a daughter with type one as well, and I said, I'm really debating right now if I. This is awful. I'm like, should I throw my daughter under the bus and like maybe like make her wake up to the fact that we need to do things a little differently sometimes. Or do I just smile and nod and. You know, move on with my day. And she was like, Yeah, tough call. I'm gonna go with smile and nod and move

Joanne: 31:13

Cause real tempted to

Katie: 31:14

throw somebody on the, under the bus right now. And it's because I didn't want it, it, I didn't want it to be a reflection on me in

Joanne: 31:20

the way. Absolutely. I was thinking that same thing. Right? And, and how much our children are an extension of ourselves. And so when they, I'm gonna put this one in big fat quotes when they behave badly cuz it this com, you know, if your. is the kid in preschool who bites the other kid. You feel kind of bad, right? Right. And at two and three, our children really are much more merged with us at 10, at 15, they become more and more independent. We aren't them. They aren't us. They might forget something. And also it's like shrug. It's not even a smile and nod. It's like, yeah, we have one of those days we forgot. You know? Yeah. It's just what it is, but I get it. Right. Yeah. We want our kids to be perfect and present themselves perfectly, so. Because it's a reflection on us, our family, the whole.

Katie: 32:02

So I feel like underneath that whole scenario was really, it was, it was a pride issue, you know? For me, yeah. For me. Yeah, of course. Yeah, because I want, you know, I wanted to, our data presented really nicely, but like, if you looked at the current real time number, it's like, oh my gosh, this is a rollercoaster situation. So yeah, I, I didn't want it to, Reflect, reflect lab on me as a person and a parent. Mm-hmm. So I had to, I was having a little mini therapy session in my head while we were sitting there. And it was fine. I mean, you know, that we, we've been there at that number many times before that it just happened that, that was the morning that we had to go to the endocrinology appointments. Yep. Yeah. And to remind myself that of too, you know, of that too. Like I, this is just gonna happen sometimes. Hopefully not too frequently, but it's just gonna happen. We don't need to wallow in shame over

Joanne: 32:50

it. Yeah. I, I think one thing I wanna notice about everything you're talking about in your own stories is that, that you have like multiple characters in your head and this is, this is really normal. We all have different parts. So you have a part that's shame filled and another part that says this is normal. Mm-hmm. this is gonna happen. This is okay. With all of these feelings I'm hearing you have a part that rises up in sadness, a part that rises up in resentment, and then other parts that can talk to you, right? Like that are your best self, more or less, that are reminding you of the, of a Like conflict with and way through. Yeah. Bigger picture. Mm-hmm. and I think that is one of the strategies. Is to think about it in terms of parts to notice when the part of us that is sad comes up, right? Because it's there and it rises up and we notice it and we say just the way we would to our children. We say to ourselves, Yeah, it makes sense. I'm so sorry you're sad and let's, you know, remember these things or make some space for it or move on from it. Whatever we think is appropriate in the moment. But I think thinking of these feelings in terms. Can be helpful also to help us like, feel more in control of them.

Katie: 33:58

Okay. I know it helps me to break it down a little bit cuz otherwise I probably would get very overwhelmed.

Joanne: 34:03

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 34:03

Let's see. I'm looking at what we, where we should jump to next. Let's spend a little bit of time talking about just self-compassion being kind to ourselves because. I don't think any of us would deny that this job of being a pancreas for our kids comes with a lot of and then teaching them also how to be a pancreas for themselves one day so they can be pent with it eventually comes with a lot of emotions and feelings, so it's, I think it's easy. For us to be hard on ourselves a lot of the time. And, you know, I feel like it's very popular thing right now for, you know, for the, just, just give yourself grace. Mm-hmm. Saying, and I totally agree with that. I'm on, on board for giving yourself a lot of grace mm-hmm. but what does that really look like to give yourself grace and just have self-compassion

Joanne: 34:50

Mm-hmm. Great question. So there is a lot of research on this now. You're right. It's, it's like a pretty popular thing to be focused on, which is like mindful self-compassion. And I think some of it is really just like a self-validation. Mm-hmm. like recognizing the reality. Mm-hmm. and Kristen Neff is a therapist and researcher who's at the forefront of this. And if you were to Google her, you'd, there's even. She even has a meditation for caregivers. I, I can't remember where, but if you Googled it, you could find it. It's only a few minutes long. And if you look at the research it talks about I, I don't love this way of thinking about it, but it, it still can be helpful. Like if you had a friend with the same situation, what would you say to them? Right? And can you, Shaza that back to yourself. Can you turn the mirror around and give that back to yourself? I think, I think often when we can't be self-compassionate, there's something a little more complicated that's going on in there. Mm-hmm. so that feels a little behavioral to me in a way that may or may not work, depending on somebody's sort of psychic structure. Mm-hmm. But I do think that that's a helpful way to think about it. Like if you had a friend who really showed you what they were struggling with. Right. How would you feel about them? Mm-hmm. if you were, if you could step outside yourself and see how much you're carrying, like how would you be kind to that person? What would you say to them? So I think that that's a helpful way to think about self-compassion. I also think, honestly, that some of self-compassion is about self-care, right? It's about actually making time Mm-hmm. So I have a webinar that I've given called Caring for the Care. Again, if you get on my newsletter, I think I'm offering it in 2023. I don't know when I have it date, but I don't, I don't remember it. Mm-hmm. And some of what I talk about is we do a time pie where you like, make a quick pie, like a pie graph of like how you spend your day and match it up to what are the things you love to do, and then see is there any overlap there, Cause often for mothers, there's. And so how can you e out bits of time to actually take care of yourself in whatever way it is that makes you feel happy and nourished because that's also a form of self-compassion. Mm-hmm. right? That we do need time, even if it's 15 minutes. Mm-hmm. to just sit and do something that's nourishing, that's not, you know, scrolling on your phone cuz I don't think that's truly nourishing. But I think those are components of self-compassion that are really important.

Katie: 37:13

and I know for me, I used to feel very guilty about taking time out of the day for myself because. There's just, you know, there's just always something to do in terms of taking care of your family. But luckily I've worked through some of that and, you know, I think it's perfectly fine to tell your kids too, like, Hey, for the next hour I'm gonna go and do this. Whether it's reading a book or going for a walk, or whatever it may be. Whatever you find joy in doing. You know, and I have said to my kids before, like, I'm, I am your mom and my job is to keep you safe and provided for and I do that 23 hours of the day. So for this next hour, I need to take care of myself. Cause when I'm taking care of myself, I can, I'm less stressed out. I mean, I, I'll I say that to them like, that's real. Yeah. I'm less stressed out and I'll be able to take better care of you. So let me have this hour, and then the rest of my day will be, And they are fine with that. They're like, Oh, like they, they get it. And I think it's good for them to hear like, Oh, mommy gets really stressed out sometimes, and she has to do this to take care of herself. Well, there's

Joanne: 38:14

so many messages in there, Katie, that are important. Not just mommy gets stressed out and this is a way to help mommy not get stressed out. But also it's important to get ahead of that by self care and that we, you know, what you're modeling for them is you get to engage in self care. Mm-hmm. Which, and I think our, I think culturally, I don't know. I struggle with this a lot. I think culturally there's a lot of messaging about how much we should be doing all the time and accomplishing, and how connected we should be, and all the, you know, it's very busy our lives and so how do we get to slow it down so it's just exactly in one given hour or moment what we want it to be. Mm-hmm.

Katie: 38:48

Yeah. So find something that you enjoy moms and dads out there, and, and make time for it. I. You know, do what you have to do. Luckily, my kids are old enough now. I love to exercise and I usually do for, you know, an hour most days of the week. I'll go for a walk or I have a bike, I'll ride a bike, or I'll do some stretching or whatever. Just movement helps me and be outside too And luckily they're old enough now to where I can, you know, I'm, even if I just go for a walk around the block, I'm gonna go for a walk. Yeah. I'll stay close in case I need to come home. But like, you're gonna be just fine

Joanne: 39:18

I totally agree. I mean, I'm thinking about when my daughter was really little, I was so tired all the time. Mm-hmm. and I would say to her, I'm gonna take a baby nap right now, so you need to play quietly. Cuz she'd be like two years old and I would lie on the sofa with her right next to me playing and I would fall asleep for just 10 minutes and it would, it would, you make my life a lot easier and I was more functional and she could do it. Right. We, we get to ask these things of our. because it's important

Katie: 39:43

for us to take care of ourselves. Yeah. Here's a pro tip for parents. Tell your kids you're gonna play hide and go seek and that you're gonna hide first and then go hide somewhere where you can lay down and just lay there. Maybe it's in a bathtub with the shower curtain closed or bed with the covers pulled up over your head. It's really great.

Joanne: 40:04

That's awesome. It reminds me, a friend of mine was telling me that when she'd go to the dentist, she also had three kids. She'd go to the dentist and she'd nearly fall asleep in the chair. You know, she's reclining. She's so tired. Mm-hmm. I love that. That's awesome.

Katie: 40:17

pro tip. Hide and go seek in the dark, which I'm grateful that they even still wanna like play hide and go seek with me. Cuz they're, they are getting older, but now they like wanna take it to the next level. Like, okay, we're gonna turn off all the lights at night and we're gonna have flashlights and, and anyway, it's. It's fun, but I can't take my naps anymore really. I guess I could.

Joanne: 40:36

You could certainly be reclining Sure.

Katie: 40:42

is there anything else that we haven't mentioned already? Like some good tools that just we as parents can use to kind of help when we're feeling a little out of control with our feelings and emotions mm-hmm. That we can kind of use to kind of like you said, like recalibrate, reset, and help to regulate things. Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 41:00

Yeah, hard sometimes. Right? And I like that you used the word help to regulate things, because the truth is when we're really in big feelings, we tend to be a little dysregulated. Not always. Sometimes our sadness is just our sadness and we can sit with it and be with it in a comfortable way, but sometimes we get really kind of like, it, it's neurological, like our body system is outta whack. And so I have a few thoughts here. One is, Is that self-compassion, self-care piece, right? So what do you do to get yourself back to regulated in general? And I do think often connecting with another person is helpful cuz you know, we've defined trauma in some way. This isn't always trauma, but we define trauma in some way as is being dysregulated in a moment without having the support to help us reregulate. Right. If there's a crisis, think about it. If you're, you know, it could be a trauma for your child to have a sibling. Right? And if they're totally alone with that trauma and they have no parent there, no adult there saying, Yep, it makes sense. Yep. You feel angry. Yep. You feel sad. Yep. You don't feel like you're getting enough attention. They're trying to regulate it on their own and they might not be able to. They likely can't. Right. in those moments when we're dysregulated, we often need company. I'm a big believer in company. So who is your company? Right? Maybe a spouse, maybe a parent, maybe a best friend, maybe a support group, whatever it is. The other thing and, and then the self care piece, which we talked about before, which is like, I can't come up with a list for you. Your list, you, Katie, like to get some movement. Great. You might pet a dog, you might read a book, you might cook a meal, whatever it is. Mm-hmm. But the last thing, and I referenced this just a few minutes ago, is like recognizing that it's a part of you. Like if you can get enough distance from yourself, which is not always easy to do, and you can be like, Oh, this isn't me at my best. This is me feeling, having a lot of hard feelings and being compassionate about that. But noticing and remembering that you could come back to your grounded best self, that is a very helpful. To be able to do it takes, that takes work, right? To be able to really observe yourself in that way and slow down your own process. But that's a goal always for all of us.

Katie: 43:08

I think, I think it's a good reminder about the company piece too. Cause I know there's been so many times where I was supposed to go meet a friend for something or even just go on a date with my husband and mm-hmm. sometimes you just feel so exhausted that you're like, I just don't even know if I can do that. but I, I. Would push through a lot of the times and still, you know, I wouldn't cancel plans. I don't like to do that. Especially if I made a commitment. But I, you know, there, there's never been a social interaction that I've gone to that's not true. I do get worn out with like weddings where you have to make a lot of small talk, but but we're talking about just like an intimate dinner with a friend or two. There's never been a social interaction like that that I've gone to where I've. Of feeling like I really shouldn't have done that. That just wiped me out even more. Like I've always felt energized by that and mm-hmm. just to be in the company of something, it takes my mind off of whatever is currently going on at home or with diabetes or whatever, so. Mm-hmm. definitely encourage people to, Remember that and seek out and, and you know, a lot of people are like, Well, I don't, I don't have any friends, or I don't, you know, a lot of people really feel that way. And to that I just say, you just gotta get weird. Like, you've gotta literally go hunt these people down.

Joanne: 44:17

I totally agree with you. And yeah. And I think we have a, this is a little off topic, but we have a sort of crisis of lone. In our culture. Right. A lot of people who feel disconnected mm-hmm. and, you know, everybody is feeling the same way. And so if you reach out to someone, it's not, it's actually, it's people want that. So I like how you say we gotta get weird, but it's, it's true. We have to, we have to take the step, We have to overcome the fear that we'll be rejected. And if And if it's not our person, it's not our person, that's fine. Yeah. Right?

Katie: 44:48

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Joanne, thank you again. I think it was another great episode. Lots of nuggets of wisdom for all those type one parents out there. Thank you again.

Joanne: 44:57

Thank you, Katie. I love being here and talking to you.

Katie: 44:59

Yes, I feel the same. All right. Signing off. That's it for our episode Joanne, we'll be back for one more episode with me next week. I'm really excited about that one that is going to be on relationships and type one diabetes. All those strains on our relationships, whether it's with family members, spouses, friends, our child. We're going to kind of dive in and talk about that and how to work through some of those. Relational stressors. Make sure you check out the links in our show notes, I will leave a link to Joanne's website, diabetes, sweet talk.com. And there you can find links to all of Joanne's other endeavors, such as her coaching courses, her podcast. And some of her amazing blog posts. All right guys. I'll be back next week. To talk more diabetes. But until then stay calm and bolus on.