#91 Relationships and the Stressors that come with a Type 1 Diagnosis with Joanne Robb

Relationships with friends, family, our spouse and even our children can be strained when a type 1 diabetes diagnosis enters the picture. Listen in on today's episode as psychotherapist and T1D mama, Joanne Robb, discuss relationships and the stressors that come along with a type 1 diagnosis. Enjoy!

Being the parent or caregiver to a child living with type 1 diabetes can come with a lot of emotional, mental and relational challenges.  Joanne is such a great resource for parents and caregivers of type 1 diabetics. In her coaching courses and podcast, she primarily deals with the emotional and relational challenges that come along with managing T1D day in and day out. Check out all the links below to find Joanne! Enjoy!

For JOANNE'S WEBSITE click HERE.  Click on the dark purple banner at the top of the page to be a guest on her podcast and have your questions answered! You'll also find a direct link to the podcast itself.

OTHER EPISODES YOU MIGHT ENJOY
-Early episode on Anxiety
-The Grief and the Trauma of a T1D Diagnosis
-Working through Anxiety with Psychotherapist and T1D mom, Joanne Robb
-Validation: What is it and how do we do it well? with Joanne Robb
-All those Feelings and Emotions that come along with a Type 1 Diagnosis with Joanne Robb

Transcript

Katie: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to episode 91 of the sugar mamas podcast. Today you are in for another awesome episode with me and Joanne, Rob. I remember Joanna is a psychotherapist. She has her own therapy practice in the state of California. But she also offers coaching courses and webinars for parents and caregivers of type one diabetics. Nationwide. Joanne also has a fabulous podcast called sweet talk for parents of kids with type one diabetes. And if you would like to have your personal diabetes questions answered by Joanne, you can visit her website at diabetes. Sweet talk.com. Click on the dark purple banner at the top of the page. And submit your question. If you're going through a struggle. And you really need some help. Giving your question to Joanne and being a guest on her podcast, even if it's done Anonymously is like being part of a little mini therapy session. And we all need those every once in awhile. Be sure to check it out. I will leave a link in the show notes. Today's topic with Joanne is on relationships and the stressors that come with a type one diabetes diagnosis. It is no secret that having a child with type one diabetes can put some stress on your most valued and precious relationships. With your spouse with other family members and even with friends. Listen in today as Joanne and I talk through some of those situations. And try to offer some some nuggets of wisdom for you to apply in real life. Okay. Without further ado, let's get started. You're listening to the sugar mamas podcast, a show designed for moms and caregivers of type one diabetics here. You'll find a community of like-minded people who are striving daily to keep their kids safe, happy, and healthy in the ever-changing world of type one. I'm your host and fellow T one D mom, Katie Roseboro. Before we get started. I need you to know that nothing you hear on the sugar mamas podcast should be considered medical advice. Please be safe, be smart, and always consult your physician before making changes to the way you manage type one diabetes. Thanks. I am back with Joanne Rob today, and Joanne and I are gonna talk about a pretty big topic, pretty broad topic that we could really probably spend several episodes dissecting this situation. But and who knows, maybe in the future we'll kind of break it down a little bit more. But today's topic is relationships and. The stress and strain that can be put on different relationships in your life when a Type one diabetes diagnosis enters your world. You know, and that can show up in, in lots of different ways. We're gonna kind of run through the different relationships, you know, between, between spouses between you and your type one diabetic child between you and your. Adult friends even between, you know, your child and maybe their friends, cuz those relationships can, can shift too. you know, it in my head, I'm also thinking about relationships with like, you know, other family members. I mean, even with just aunts and uncles and grandparents. I mean, all of that can get shifted and it can be, it can just be stressful trying to navigate kind of the new normal with all of it.

Joanne: 3:20

I agree.

Katie: 3:20

Yeah, I'm curious, I mean, I know you probably, you don't have a percentage that you can give me, but do you feel like when you go through the coaching courses with parents and caregivers, is that a lot of what you're talking about? Or do you find that that comes up a lot?

Joanne: 3:35

it with parents who are newer to diagnosis. So I have a course called After Diagnosis that's for parents in the first year after diagnosis. And with those parents, I feel like it's a, it's louder and what's louder is the feeling of, I can't ask for help. And my relationships have completely shifted because of this. Like I hear a lot actually, which makes me very sad. I hear a lot from moms who are saying that their mothers are not the support that they need and expected, right? Because their mothers are anxious about doing management. I also for sure hear stories of parents whose parents are amazing support, right? But I do hear a lot about Moms of young kids who suddenly got a diagnosis and their parents. So the grandparents are just not getting involved in the way they had hoped. And that's a particularly painful narrative, but I think when you're right into diagnosis, the shift in relationships is a little, it's it throws you off balance. So I definitely hear that more as I get a little further from diagnosis. That's not necessarily the primary presenting issue that I see. And that said, I think there's often. A theme for parents of feeling like they can't ask for the help that they need, right? That they're too burdensome, that what they need is too burdensome, and so there's a way that diabetes creeps into relationship in that way.

Katie: 4:51

Yeah. I feel like I personally don't have an issue asking for help when I need it from grandparents or like my sister or even friends. What I struggle with is and we're, we're already, I'm already derailing the conversation. Joanne. This is not a good sign. But no, I struggle with I already, I struggle with. How much information do I give somebody? You know, because it's like, I don't, I mean, if it's a good friend of mine, I can kind of, you know, I've already said humor is my coping mechanism. I can kind of joke around with them about like, okay, this is like not serious at all, but also like super serious. Okay. So I need you to be paying attention. But yeah, like, just like every school year I struggle with, well, how much do I really wanna tell these teachers? Like, I don't wanna freak them out. I don't want them to feel, I, I want them, I wanna communicate that this is, is very important, but also not I don't want it to be a huge burden in their life. So anyway, that's a, that's a, struggle.

Joanne: 5:45

Yeah, I think that that's a really common struggle. And I remember at one point thinking when will I not introduce myself? Where the first thing pretty much that I'm letting people know is that I have kids with type one diabetes and that, you know, I feel like just recently, so like you know, cuz it really is so identifying and I needed people to understand that my experience was different than their experience in whatever ways I needed to communicate that. But Katie, what you just said is also important. There's that balance between letting folks know that it's important and they need to pay attention. And then the words that you next said were, and I don't wanna burden. And that's the thing I hear from almost all parents, like even from you feeling totally entitled and in strong enough relationship that you can take up space. There's a way that type one parents feel like, and you're talking about it with teachers, right? Who aren't the people you're emotionally close to. It's somebody you have to kind of be like, And actually I need you to help with this thing, right? So it's tricky because we do often feel burdensome, like that is a word I hear all, all, all.

Katie: 6:47

Yeah, it's true. I mean, I hate it. I would like to not feel that way, but it just, I feel like it's a little bit un inevitable. Okay. I wanna, I wanna talk a little bit about marriages or just relationship partners, you know, spouses, people that are kind of doing life together and then all of a sudden their child gets diagnosed with type one diabetes. I've seen. Lots and lots and lots of people that are very, very sad and stressed out. They do not agree with their spouse on how things should be managed. You know, one person usually feels like you know, they should be logging every single thing and you know, be extremely, extremely on top of it all the time, 24 7. And the other person is trying to Create a little space between themselves and diabetes. Or one person thinks they should do low carb and the other person doesn't care about that, you know? So what would you, what what's your best suggestions for just partners that are not seeing eye to eye with whatever the diabetes situation might be? This is such a triggering thing for a lot of people.

Joanne: 7:48

Yes, it is. Okay. The, the notes I wanted to look at are, I've done a bunch of free webinars I've, that I've developed and I was thinking of developing one, um, on, you know, parent relationship in managing diabetes. And I'm actually a certified couple's therapist and I was talking to my consultant about it once and took a ton, and he's like, Why do you think you don't know what to say? And he's like, Here are all the things. I'm like, Oh yes, of course I do know what to say. But it, but it's tricky, right? It is a really tricky thing. What I wanna say is, the way I think about this is like as a couple's therapist, when a couple comes into my office and they're having conflict, what I'm looking for is what we call the cycle. So the content really almost doesn't matter, right? Because if you have a fight with your spouse, Katie, which I'm sure you do, because we're all married, we all fight with our spouses, right? You know, the content changes, but the way the fight looks and the way it feels inside you and probably inside your partner is the same no matter what the content is. And so diabetes in my view, sits on wherever the fault line is in the family. So if the fault line is between you and your spouse that you really see things differently, that is exactly where diabetes is gonna sit. If the fault line is between you and your kid, right? You have like a quote identified patient child in your family, when diabetes comes, that's where it's gonna sit. If the fault line is around your relationship to. That's where diabetes is gonna sit. So I'm not saying it only sits in one place, but I, I think that wherever the family structure has the least integrity, and I mean that's structurally not like you don't have integrity as a person or the relationship, but where there's like a, a crack in the armor basically chinks, that's where diabetes is gonna sit. So in answer to your question, it's a little hard to answer cause I need to see what the cycle is between those two.

Katie: 9:37

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 9:38

Because diabetes is sitting wherever that cycle is. And it, and it really can vary family to family. That said, the important remedy is, is curiosity. Like, where is your partner coming from? The challenge here is often when we get in conflict with our partners, we feel massively dysregulated on the inside. So it's hard to like stand down and be your best self when you're already so dysregulated, right? That's what makes the conflict, But the question is, what's the other person's perspective like if you assume. We all love our children and we're all coming from our best possible place. Why is it different for them? What are they thinking differently and can they hear from you how you're thinking differently from them? Can you kind of navigate your way to some compromise? I also think that. At the beginning, right? Post diagnosis, parents are really anxious and so they're logging. Everything is a sign of their anxiety and their incredible desire to get it perfectly right. So they keep their children as safe as possible, not without recognition. In that moment, that safety is broader than that. Like, it's not just getting every number right. It's sort of taking into account all the family dynamics and flexibility. Like those things create health too. But that's a really common, conflict slash division of labor that happens really post-diagnosis. And I think everybody just recognizing that you're in a crisis. Right. It is a crisis and just giving some breath and space and grace to everyone there, assuming that everyone's doing their best. Right. And getting help if you can't work it out. Right, you could, It could require some couples therapy. Uh, Like a quick hit of that. If you can't find your way in, I don't know, I don't wanna put a time table, but like six months, something like this where you really have been trying and it's not working. Does that make sense?

Katie: 11:25

Yes, Yes. I know that the times, you know, when I have felt just kind of unsupported in the whole diabetes world, cuz I, I do do most of the management in our home and then that, and I know I'm not, I mean, every now and then I get a little bit resentful about that just because. It's exhausting and I'm you know what I mean? And I would love, love to pass the torch on, but it's just the way it worked out in our family. Like I, you know, my, we had always agreed that I would work, but probably never full, full time. And then my husband would be the full-time person. And so it just kind of naturally fell on me. Which, you know, it, it's an honor to be caring for her, truly. Even though some days I'm very, very tired, but I know that in the times that I have felt like I needed more support, it's not. It's never a good thing if I am stuffing and stuffing and stuffing and then everything just explodes all at once. It's best and it's also not good for me to just come with a very broad plea of I need more help. Like, it's, it's better for me to come to the table with specific things I need help with. Like, Hey, I really would appreciate it if you did the Dexcom change tonight. I just need a break or, or

Joanne: 12:31

yep, yep.

Katie: 12:32

or Hey, if, if the alarms go off tonight, Can you be the one to get up and, and take care of it? And, and that is helpful for, for us, I think just to kind of know where exactly I need, need help,

Joanne: 12:44

So you're talking about two different things and they're both really important. Okay. The first thing I just revised that is that you're talking about trying to stay inside your we, I call it a window of tolerance. Right? You're trying to not get so dysregulated that you're erupting, right? And that happens, especially with the primary diabetes caregiver, right? You're overwhelmed, you're overtired. And so, and then there's this feeling of like, I have to do it. And so you keep stuffing down all the little messages that you're getting that it's actually too much now and you need some kind of break or some kind of support that gets stuff, Stuff stuffed. And then there's an eruption, right? So you're talking about how you noticing Very good. That you need to stay inside your window of tolerance because if you get out of there, it causes more conflict. The other thing you're talking about that I think is beautiful and totally right on, is that you're asking, you're making specific asks. Instead of just saying, I need help, I'm overwhelmed, which you can say that, but you could say, I'm feeling really overwhelmed. I'm really feeling like I'm needing extra help. Would you mind taking. This and this, because I think that would help me get a little bit of a breath and some air here so that I more capable of managing this. Right? So it is about asking for the specific thing. Sometimes when we're dysregulated, it's hard to do, so some of what we're talking about is trying to catch this earlier. Try to not let it go so long that you're feeling heroic, like, and kind of like the martyr. Like, I can do it. I can do it, I can do it, I can do it. And the truth is we're not superhuman. We, This is a very exhausting, kind of relentless disease.

Katie: 14:14

Mm-hmm. Yep. Absolutely. I mean, I, I definitely am a stuffer because I don't like conflict. I don't I don't like conflict within my own personal self, and I don't like con. Conflict in relationships, which is, can be very problematic at times. But yeah, that's like my main goal in life is to keep the peace. And I hate conflict, but I, I've just have come to realize that if I just stuff it all down, And then all of a sudden explode one day like that, I then I feel guilty and Sha you know, cause I usually have said something that I probably shouldn't have said, and I didn't mean to say. Then my husband is just like, Kind of like a deer in the headlights. Like, I don't even know what to do with this. Cuz he's like super calm, almost never, ever, ever loses his cool. But you know, I have just come to recognize that I really need to just make the request before it becomes like a volcano situation where I'm, Yeah.

Joanne: 15:08

So that's one of the ways that being someone who's conflict avoidant has really served you is that you're thinking about a strategy to avoid the conflict later in a really helpful way. Some people don't like, I think it's, I think it's Einstein who said, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. So it's attributed to Einstein, but that's true. Like if we think we're gonna just keep stuffing it and it'll be better next time. Probably not the best strategy, right? So I like that your conflict avoidance is leading you to really think strategically about how to truly avoid it. You're not just turning away from it and saying it'll be better next time and ignoring it. You're really thinking strategically, and so that's important too. Like don't ignore if there's a place that you guys keep getting stuck as a couple, like pay attention to it and see if you can figure out other ways to possibly manage it, assuming that it will come up again because it will. That's what.

Katie: 16:05

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 16:05

Yeah.

Katie: 16:06

Yeah. Do you find that most people that you talk to, you know, couples that you're, you're talking to like that one person takes on most of the diabetes management? I honestly think that, that even though I do get very tired sometimes and burned out, like I honestly think that works best for us because, you know, it's kind of like that there's too many cooks in the kitchen type of situation where lots of people are giving their input and suggestion and sometimes it's just best for one person to like make that.

Joanne: 16:33

Mm-hmm..Yeah, I do find that. I also find that it's mostly mothers, not always. And I think there are some families where there's a much clearer division of labor. So there's one family one parent is in charge of all the body stuff and the other parent is in charge of all the ordering. And if you think about it, that's a huge job. Like getting on the phone with insurance and dealing with all the supplies, it's huge. And so if somebody else, like, if someone took that off my load, I'd be so, so happy. Right. So for the, for the lead parent, I'm putting that in quotes, right? Like, is there a way to divide some of it so that you know, Cuz Katie, you're right, like having too many people making a decision can be hard, although sometimes helpful to have more brains. But certainly not like on the fly all the time. You know, someone has to be the decision lead decision maker, but that doesn't mean you need to also order the supplies and be on the phone with Dexcom if there's a technical issue. Right. you know, it depends what everyone can carry. But yes, mostly I do see that one parent is the lead parent.

Katie: 17:29

Yes. And I do, I do make my husband, even if I'm not feeling overly stressed with it all, I do make him do some of the device changes, because every now and then, cause I'm like, what if, What if I fall off the planet tomorrow? Like you, you need to be every now and then. You need to. Have some practice and how to do these, and my daughter's also getting a lot more independent and she, you know, she truly, she can do it all on her own. She just prefers to, not

Joanne: 17:55

Yes. Well, that's why she's young yet.

Katie: 17:57

Yeah. She prefers to have help. Help and emotional support for sure. Okay.

Joanne: 18:02

a piece here? I wanna talk about divorced families, right? Cause that's actually when the questions come up the most for me, and it's the same thing. Whatever the cycle is that led to the separation and or divorce, that's the diabetes is gonna sit there. So it's gonna be about noticing the cycle. So often it's gonna be one parent feeling resentful that the other parent isn't taking good care and isn't taking responsibility. So I hear often about situations where, when. You know, child is with parent A, their numbers are totally in range and then they go to parent B who feeds them danishes and doesn't dose enough and they're totally out of range. And that is a really hard situation because generally parent A who's like on top of the management differently and has more numbers that are in range, is feeling massively stressed about what's happening over there at the other families'. And so I think depending on where you are in your separation and or divorce, right? The question is how to get curious about what's happening. How is your personal cycle, relational cycle affecting management and like how do you come to some peaceful place with each other? I actually just gave a talk to Divorced family. The mom who was in the room said that for a while they only, she, her ex only communicated over a Google doc. Like that's how they did it and how they could Cuz diabetes came to them after they were divorced. Right. So they're all kinds of situations where you're having to navigate already a fragmented or fractured relationship. Challenging, challenging relationship situation. Right. And then diabetes folds in. So that's that. I just wanna give a nod to those families.

Katie: 19:35

Yeah, that would be incredibly difficult to navigate, in my opinion. So gonna,

Joanne: 19:41

it is.

Katie: 19:42

Yeah. And I, I would have to imagine that, you know, whenever you go to make a suggestion to parent A or parent A is making a suggestion to you, you, it, you know, it's hard not to feel attacked because you feel like, you feel like they think you're doing everything wrong. So,

Joanne: 19:57

Well, and certainly if that's the issue in the relationship already. Where if, if, if the divorce happened in such a way that kind of a common narrative about what caused the separation and divorce, then that is more likely to to be triggering, Yeah, absolutely.

Katie: 20:13

that could, again, that could probably be a whole series in and of itself right there, Okay. Let's talk about strife between you and or you as the parent and the child that is living with Type one diabetes. Because I think a lot of times, and I hear about it most, you know, mostly when kids start to get a little older and into the teen years that they're, you know, a lot of times there can be a lot of strife between the parent and the kid because the parent, wants what's best for the kid. Obviously health, health and safe, good health, safety. But sometimes that can come across very overbearing. Lots of I don't wanna say nagging, but nagging, you know,

Joanne: 20:48

Yeah. I think that's fair.

Katie: 20:50

Kind of being a helicopter parent in the world of diabetes, which, you know, the kid can, I'm, you know, I'm, can only imagine, can really start to resent and be angry about. So, how would you kind of, what suggestions or tips do you have for families that might be experiencing that where the parent is just or they don't even have to be overbearing, but for whatever reason, the kid feels like they just wanna be left alone. You know what I mean?

Joanne: 21:13

So again, I think that that diabetes is sitting in the, on the fault line, right? Because that none of what you're describing is, Atypical for some teens, right? Not all teens are Like Like my diabetic son, my son with type one was not particularly like that. We had moments. My daughter absolutely, we're just really struggling with that right But not, not massively around diabetes because I don't pick a fight there. So I think some of it is about, you know, and you've. Episodes on your show about like relating to your teen kids. So I think some of it is about us educating ourselves about what to expect. I think some of it us keeping relationship in the front. So what's the most forward piece? So I think for some families, if diabetes is the most forward piece, the kids feel. Kind of it's like a wet blanket. It's like they have no more relationship with their parent because all they're doing is talking about diabetes. It doesn't make a lot of space. And so I really encourage parents to put the relationship first, which really is a task. Like if you are feeling anxious about diabetes and the fact that your kid didn't us at lunch. Isn't seeming to take care of quote unquote anything. I'm, I, I really feel like most kids are taking care of something. And so it's helpful to find the place where you feel like your child is doing well. But I think that it's, it's hard to see it when you're seeing, poor time and range or high a1c or whatever it is. And so. I think it's about keeping the relationship in the front, but also about knowing that the data is, and I feel like maybe I've talked about this already on here, I can't remember the, the data really is that as kids hit their teens, their numbers get worse. And so it's not, the way I always say it is like, I'm not suggesting we unclip our seat belts and we let our kids just do whatever. We obviously are there to keep them safe, but to not expect the same beautiful time and range or a1c. To know that it's a phase they're going through to not panic, to keep sort of sounding the drumbeat of this is important for your health and safety. How can I help and support you and keeping the relationship strong and like having confidence in faith that it's gonna change. Cause it, I, I believe for most kids it does.

Katie: 23:20

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know. And I just wanna just a plug for your podcast right here because you know, some people listening might be thinking like, Gosh, I really wish they would hit on a specific thing with, in this realm of Parents and their type one teens. But if you have, if you're living this right now, like if you're living one of these scenarios that we're kind of talking through, get on Joanne's website, diabetes Sweet talk.com. And at the top of the page, there's a dark purple banner where you can submit your question, your specific scenario, your question. You can do it anonymously. And, and you can, you can be a guest on Joanne's podcast and she can answer your specific question. So, so do that

Joanne: 23:58

Yeah. Thank you, Katie. Yeah, I mean, I think you're pointing to something important, not just my podcast, but thank you. But you're, you're pointing to the fact that there's a lot of variability and so like, I can say a lot of things about what you might see, but I can't really know what you're gonna see. And so it's, there's a lot, There are a lot of. Subtleties and nuances that we really wanna think through. Actually I had somebody, I volunteered at our local family camp, our area family camp last weekend. And there was a family that came and said to me, they had a three year old, I think, and they were really worried about what was gonna happen when he became a teenager. And I felt like, I don't know what kind of teenager he's gonna be. Like. It's hard for me to help guide you. Right. We need to look at the child who's in front of us. And that's true. And they're teenagers too. But it's a little, you know, I can't give gen general advice other than keep listening. Keep your child in the, in your relationship, in the forefront as much as you can. Right. And then, and then work on the diabetes.

Katie: 24:56

Yeah. Chances are if they're coming to you with that question with their three year old, then they probably have a three major on hands

Joanne: 25:03

They might. Yeah. Cuz those ages can be hard. I always felt like everyone said terrible twos and for me it was always, the odd numbers were much harder than the even numbers.

Katie: 25:10

Yeah, three was, three was tough for us too. Three and four. Actually, I didn't feel like we until we got to five things really calmed down. Anyway, I'm glad I, I will look upon those years fondly, but I'm, I'm glad we're past them also. All right. I wanted to say something. Oh, I, you know, I can't speak to this. A lot because Sarah is, I feel like we really haven't hit too many roadblocks in this area. But something that I try to do some rules. And boundaries that I have set for myself is that when she gets in the car after school, I try my best not to say anything about diabetes until later. I mean, you know, 20 minutes into the car ride. Cause we've gotta like go get her brother from a different school and I'll, you know, I'll say, Hey sweetie, if you wanna snack when we get home, you probably need to do your bowls for it. Now I'll say that, but you know, if there was like a crazy high during the day. She just kept going low or what? I, I try not to really dissect any of that at all. I would say at least for a solid 30 minutes to an hour, but really even until later in the night. I mean, like maybe when I'm tucking into her bed and be like, Hey, I was wondering, you know, this afternoon, today, you know, you, you went up to two 50 and that's not normally like a time that you would be eating or anything like that. that doesn't bother me, but I kind of need to know, like, did you eat something? Or maybe is, are your insulin insulin needs different now at that time? Like, I just need to know the information so I can make treatment decisions. And I just find that if we, you know, just give her some room to breathe and, and whatnot when she gets home from school before I bring up. Diabetes questions, and most of the time when I ask things like that, she's like, I don't know, and I'm Ok. Ok.

Joanne: 26:50

I think that that's common, but I, I also think, Katie, that you're talking about, I think you're, you're a hundred percent correct that that's a good thing to do, and you as the parent have to be more regulated on the inside to be able to do that.

Katie: 27:04

Mm.

Joanne: 27:05

So in addition to that, I wanna name that we as the parents, are the parents. So sometimes even if we don't feel regulated on the inside, it's a fake until you make it moment and we have to try, right? Because what happens is we have emotional agitation that they were high at a time where we weren't expecting it. Right? Or that you see that they didn't dose or they, I mean, for me, I can't stand it when she's bumping down and. 63, 6, you know, and then she comes up and then she goes down again, right? Like those are super agitating to me. So the question is how do we contain our agitation enough to be able to do exactly what you're saying? And part of it is it's hard, and part of it is we're the parent. We have to. We can't let our emotional life the relationship with our kid. So even if we feel agitated, we have to somehow talk ourselves down and do exactly that. Like lead with how was the day? Who'd you eat lunch with? How was the special activity that you knew they were gonna have the field trip, the whatever. And then later be like, Hey, I wanted to check in about numbers cuz it looked like it was a little tricky here. Do you remember what happened? You know, just, I wanna be able to. I can make the best adjustments on the back end, right? Exactly

Katie: 28:09

Well, and I feel like with her pump too, there's really no reason that I ever need to ask her, What's your blood sugar? Because I can, Well that, I'm talking about our CGM now, but I can just look on the Dexcom and see what it, like. I don't need to interrogate her about that. And I also don't even need to interrogate her about like, When she's in my presence at least, and I can, you know, get the little controller that controls her Omnipod, I can look on there and see if she bullest for, you know, whatever that day. so I try to remember that too. Like, you know, again, if we had like a high blood sugar during the day or whatever, like, unusually high after lunch, which I'm like, gosh, if she had done the. I, we shouldn't have seen these numbers, you know what I mean? That type of thing. I don't have to ask her, Hey, did you, why didn't you bolus for lunch? Or, you know, it looks like I could just go on our controller and see Oh, she bolus, so I don't, you know, we can go from there. Like, or maybe she didn't bowl or whatever. So there's little things that I can do to, you know, only ask the questions that really need to be asked.

Joanne: 29:05

I think that that's a really good point. I think that because the technology is so changed, we have that option. And I make that mistake all the time of asking questions that I don't necessarily need to, and I think it puts too much diabetes in the mix. I also think. that it's more work for us, right? Like I, my daughter's not an Omnipod. She's on a tandem, so I can't look at it unless I'm up against her body. So she doesn't like that. But I could, if I were like more motivated and was having more conflict around it, I could download more regularly. It'd just be like when she's in the shower, grab the pump, download the data, take a quick look. So I think it depends how much it feels conflictual, how much it feels burdensome in the relationship. And then you'll, you apply these strategies to try to, take it out of the relationship as much as possible.

Katie: 29:50

Yeah. I, I'm just trying to be proactive so it doesn't get too burdensome.

Joanne: 29:55

that's wise. I, I also think though, Katie, that there's a message we tell ourselves that like, we are teaching. Right. So this is another piece in the relationship is that we feel the burden that we have to teach them cuz we like how to be good diabetes managers. But in the name of that, we can get a little of punishing around the amount we're talking about it, I

Katie: 30:14

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. All right, well, let's jump to siblings. I know that those poor other siblings can feel a little neglected sometimes when when their, you know, their brother or sister is getting all this attention around diabetes. Especially in the beginning, you know, when it's all new and mom and dad are really honed in on what so and so's doing. And now there's this whole thing I know. Even just a couple days ago, my youngest was trying to, it was, it was a little bit of a stressful night. Like we had a late night lots of activity going on, and I forgot that Sarah's Dexcom was an expire. My husband was outta town for work We got home. And anyway, long story short, Sarah wanted some privacy with the Dexcom change and, you know, we needed to get it done. And um, but my other kid also had some questions and needed me. He wanted me to quiz him on his spelling words and just blah, blah, blah. And anyway, it got to the point where it was like, I, I kind of, I snapped a little bit like buddy, like you, I just need you to leave me alone for a little bit. Like Sarah needs some privacy. I, I will be out there in a little while to do your spelling with you. You know, I, the words I were saying were fine, but probably the tone I was saying was not the best. I could see on his face, you know, just this kind of like, okay, like, you know, like diabetes again, you know, takes Takes the win.

Joanne: 31:32

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 31:32

So what if a sibling is feeling. I guess out of the, out of the, I can't think of the word. I'm trying to, you know, disgruntled a little bit about the whole diabetes

Joanne: 31:40

Mm. So actually I've done a webinar called The Other Sibling, which I don't think I have scheduled in 2023, but if you're, if folks are interested, you can sign up for my newsletter. You'll get that information about free webinars that I Yeah, it's real So it's a question I often ask 20 somethings if I'm interviewing them. Like, what was your relation 20 somethings with type one? Like, what was your relationship like with your sibling? And it can be really variable. Often there's a lot of support, like siblings often want to help. But what you're describing that happened with your son is also really real. And so, I have two quick, easy suggestions and then of course they're more complicated But one is to really make time. Which is hard to impossible. I want, I wanna say, when my son was diagnosed, my daughter was nine months old and I had a kid in the middle, right? and that kid in the middle, she really started coming unglued. And I know I said to her so many times, like, I know this is so hard for you, sweetie. I get it. You want to be taken care of, you know, you wanna be babied, right? And I just am having trouble finding time. I messaged that a lot, but it didn't change anything for a long. It was just hard for her and hard for my relationship with her, honestly. And eventually diabetes got a little quieter. My daughter got a little older, my baby daughter got a little older, and so I was able to pay attention. So some of it's knowing that it's hard giving yourself some room, acknowledging that it's gonna change at some point, but if you can, spending some time with that child so that my middle child really needed time. And so I would carve out, you know, 10 minutes, I'm seriously 10 minutes to sit and read a book, sit and play. Sit and do Barbie sit and do whatever it is that that child wants to do. The other thing is to really validate to to them like that. You see it so when you go to your son to do the spelling words to say, I know that diabetes can really get in the way, and I imagine that that's really hard for you. You know, that sort of validation. Model that we talked about a few episodes ago, here is, is really something to apply there. They are struggling, that is real, and to name it and make as much space for their experience as they are needing, right? After the fact. Like in the emergency, you cannot do that. They, they have to come second, but to make space for it after. And, and also sometimes like, it sounds like your son was like a little disgruntled but not massively disgruntled. So sort of saying, Yeah, it felt hard. I, And you're giving him some language about how it can feel like he gets sidelined and you kind of wanna do that so that he can express it to you when he's.

Katie: 34:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, that's a good reminder about the validation piece. In the validation episode was episode 89, I believe. So to go back and take a listen to that one, it was a, it was really good. Okay, let's jump to, again, if you have a specific sibling question that has come to mind. That we have, shed some light on, Get on Joanne's website and ask it, and you can have it answered by Joanne herself. Okay, so let's talk about just relationships. I think I've actually, one of your podcast episodes covered this a little bit. Just relationships between like me and my

Joanne: 34:36

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 34:37

that can get strained. Because I, I feel like I, like ghosted everybody for the first few months of Sarah's diagnosis. I mean, I was like, I couldn't, I could barely, you know, return phone calls or text messages or you know, I stopped going to the gym for a couple months. I mean, I just kind of fell off the face of the planet.

Joanne: 34:58

Yeah.

Katie: 34:58

And coming back from that. And, you know, I have some really good, wonderful friends in my life that were checking in on me which I'm very fortunate. I know that I'm very fortunate to have. But, you know, it's just, it's just different, you know, It's just different. Because, you know, you now you're going out to dinner and you are trying to be very present and have a conversation with somebody, but you've gotta check in on the numbers every now and then. Or you might have to answer a phone call from your, your kid or your spouse or whatever. and I think that friendships can feel a little bit more strained. Under diabetes. So if, you know, or also, you know, your friends might not invite you along on things as much as they did before. Like if it's a family event and they feel like, Oh, this might be really stressful for them because of diabetes. Like, they might, they might not invite you to in, you know, to things like they would've before. What I have found though, and is I feel like Sarah doesn't get invited.

Joanne: 35:51

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 35:52

As many things anymore, like sleepovers or things like that. You know, and I mean, she does, but there's, it's just different. You know what I mean? I just feel like there's a hesitation there, and that can be tricky to navigate.

Joanne: 36:03

Yep. I, I think everything you're saying is true. So as a parent I feel like, I mean you're talking about different moments. You're talking about post diagnosis when you're in the thick of misery and, and learning curve and drinking from the fire hose, right? Cuz I think of post diagnosis as drinking from a fire hose instead of a water or a water bottle, even more San. That you don't have the bandwidth to tend to your friendships. That is true. And so, And then when you pick back up, like who are the friends who can really be there, Who are the people who can listen to your story, who can understand what you're going through, who are flexible and accommodating and understanding, Right? And there, there will be those people. I really believe And there will be some people I think, who for whatever reason, can't manage. I don't think those are in the major. Like on the podcast episode that I think you're referring to, the mom was asking the question, like she had had a fallout with a friend and she was wondering, is this something I should always expect? And I feel like, no, it's not my experience. It's not the experience I think of most people. And you are gonna bump into some people who just somehow aren't flexible or aren't understanding. And I would chalk them up as like, not somebody. Is would be a good friend to you right now, right? You're needing some understanding and compassion for what you're living in your family. And if somebody meet you there, that gives you some good information about what the capacity is of that relationship. That's not an easy thing to do. It can be really painful, The other thing I'm thinking about is sort of in our house, we call it the suffering Olympics. I think there is a thing where, you know, you see it in, it's easy to identify it in kids. It's sort of like, you know, I have so much homework. Oh yeah, I have so much homework. I was up to one o'clock in the morning. This kind of behavior, I think it can happen in adults too. Like I, I'm just so tired and worn out. Right. That kind of thing. And, I mean, I had a relationship with a woman who had a child with on the spectrum, and she was quite envious of the community support I got for having a child with diabetes. And it really blew our friendship up in a way where it became like a suffering Olympics competition. And I realized I could not be in relationship with her anymore. Right. She actually said to me at one point, Well, what would be the problem if your daughter ended up at the. And I thought, Okay, we're done. Right. You, you're gonna have some relationships like that. But I feel like mostly people want to help and want to understand. And so leaning into the places where you feel like you can, And, and I even sometimes might ask like, Can I describe to you what this is for me? Because I think that's fine to do. I do think that for our children it is harder for sure that You know, it's just harder to navigate a sleepover, for example. And it's not impossible, but we, the parents have to trust the other parent. And that other parent has to feel safe enough and connected enough to us to wanna take the risk, and the responsibility. Not really risk, but responsibility. So I think that that can be problematic and we can help if we have relationships with our kids, friends, parents, by saying, you know, can I, are you willing to, like, pushing a little, Like, would you be willing to. you know, and cultivating some more understanding in the parent community so that it feels safer for them to take our kids.

Katie: 39:12

Yeah, definitely. I, you know, I have to remind myself a lot too, that like really and truly people just don't, don't understand it if they're not living it 24 7, and that's okay. Like, they don't have to understand every little detail and be in the trenches with you. Like as long as they're willing to listen and offer some encouragement and you know, Hey, let's go grab a cup of coffee, you know, that's, that's good enough, right? We, we probably shouldn't expect too much of our friends in the way of really understanding what goes on, because, you know, I'm thinking of a couple situations. I have some really good friends right now that are going through extremely difficult situations that. Totally different than diabetes. But, and I have no clue. You know, I can, I can sympathize with them and I can lend an ear and, and be there when they need to talk, but I, I have no idea what they're really going through and what they're feeling inside. And and I never will unless I'm living that same situation. So I think we need to remind ourselves too that, you know, it's certainly fine for us to be like, Hey, can I describe this for you? What I'm feeling and what I'm going through? But at the same time, I just, I just don't think it's really fair for us to really expect people to get it completely.

Joanne: 40:19

Mm-hmm..I think that's a reasonable perspective. I also think it's reasonable to hope that you have one or two people who get it completely because they're really listening. Like actually the person who took care of my kids in elementary and middle school, because I have you, the kids went to the same school and they are nine years apart. My. Type one kids. The same woman took care of both of them over years, and so she really understood. I will never forget where I was standing, the moment where she turned to me and said, I don't know how you ever sleep. and I said, I don't, and I felt so seen, right, that she really understood how complicated the diabetes was cuz she was doing it during the day. And so I think there are some, and I have a very close friend who was always open to hearing. So she understands all the lingo. She speaks it. Actually, one of my favorite stories is another therapist in. Near me who had a close friend whose daughter was diagnosed, and she called her friend and said, How do I help and support you? And her friend said, You have to go learn this for, for you to ask me to teach you when I barely understand what this is. If you really wanna help and support me, you need to go learn what this is. And I thought that was incredible. And, And she did, right? She did. She

Katie: 41:30

That's even, that's really the more incredible part of that whole

Joanne: 41:33

all of it is incredible. But I, but this is to say some people are open to that and we all deserve one of those people in our lives. So if you feel like you can cultivate it, do that too. Like yes, expect that. Most people don't understand, most people are compassionate and might say stupid things because they do, and right, and you're like, you kind of roll your eyes and think, Yeah, that's not me actually, that's type two diabetes, or No, he can't eat the cake, or whatever it is. to have one person who you feel like you really can explain it to, or more if you're lucky, is important to cultivate.

Katie: 42:06

Yes. I, yeah, I think you're right. It is important to have at least one or two. I have a good friend who, who, her spouse is a type one. But then her daughter got diagnosed with type one, like a year after Sarah was diagnosed. And, and so, you know, neither of us wanna be in this situation, but we're very grateful for our friendship because, I mean, talk about somebody, we were friends long. You know, we've been friends for 12, 12 years or more. And now, you know, we just, we just get it, you know, we go to church together and, and sometimes she'll have to get up and like leave the sanctuary and she'll just give me a nod and I'm like,

Joanne: 42:43

Hmm.

Katie: 42:43

you know what I mean? Like she, she's going to deal with some sort of diabetes related issue. Yeah. Which, you know, it just, it's just nice to have somebody who really, really, really gets it. And I really don't even, it wasn't really until her daughter was diagnosed that I think she got it cuz she was super hands off. You know, she's not, she's not managing it for her spouse. So she really was kind of in the dark until that all happened.

Joanne: 43:04

Yep. I

Katie: 43:05

here we are,

Joanne: 43:06

Yep. And it's, even though it's terrible, her daughter got it. It's so nice that you guys have each other. Right? And finding that person, if you're doing it through jdrf, if you're doing it at a camp like I do think that if your fam, if your community, sorry, doesn't have, that person that comes to the surface, go find them.

Katie: 43:24

Yes. Be weird. Y'all just be weird and go let'em down. I'm telling you,

Joanne: 43:31

I love the way you say that. It's so true.

Katie: 43:33

Yes, I had a very, this is not diabetes related, but I had a very be weird moment. So my third child, bless his little precious heart, like he's just always been along for the ride with the older two. And so this year I promised myself like, I'm gonna invest in your. Friendships, you know what I mean, Like that you have at school. Cause usually it's like people are over for the other two and he's just kind of in the mix. Well, I was like, we're gonna invest in your friendships this year. So I like sent him to school with a letter

Joanne: 43:58

oh, oh,

Katie: 44:00

to give to his friends, to give to their parents. Like, because we don't, we go to a charter school, so we don't live in like the neighborhood with everybody that goes to school there, you know it's not like the neighborhood school or whatever. And he. He did, and some of them contacted me and some of them didn't. But I'm like, I'm hunting down the people that didn't. So I like got in touch with the other people and we had a little play date and it was fun. But I emailed the teacher and I'm like, Okay, I know you're gonna think I'm crazy, but can you give me the email addresses of these other parents because I'm really making an attempt to invest in Timothy's friendships this year. And she was like, Oh, I mean, I guess I can ask for permission to give you their email. I'm. Yes, that's fine. Please support me in my, my weird endeavors. And she did, She actually just emailed me today with her email addresses

Joanne: 44:42

know what? I love that you're not daunted, and I love that you don't have some little dialogue going on in your head saying, This is too weird. I shouldn't do this. You know, I think you're doing exactly the right thing. And some of these folks might not respond warmly, and that's fine too. Like you're gonna. You're gonna find the people who match your needs and Timothy's needs and you're gonna do that. And that's exactly what we all need to do, really in all our relationships in some way, but with diabetes for sure. Right? Because it can be so isolating. And that's parents primary experience, I think is a feeling isolated. Or one of their primary experiences. So I think it's so important to get connected.

Katie: 45:19

Yes, absolutely. I talk about that a lot in my podcast. I think it's so important. Okay. I feel like, I mean, we've really talked about a lot. I, I feel like the last one we might wanna touch on just a tiny bit is if you notice. Relationships changing for your child. Like maybe they had a little bestie and now they're kind of growing apart after this. And I mean, who's to say it was really diabetes related? I mean, you know, when that thought comes to mind, I, I feel like the only thing that I could do was try to reach out to the parent to see what was going on there. Maybe, And it depends on the age of the kid too. Like you probably wouldn't wanna interfere if they're a teenager and they're in, you know, middle school, high school. But what are your thoughts on.

Joanne: 45:55

so that, you know, you'd sent me the questions in advance and I read that one and thought, Huh, I dont. Actually know of a situation where I've heard of that happening in the way that you're describing. What I, what I do know of is teenage kids who feel nervous about telling their peers because they feel like they're gonna be ostracized in some way. And so I hear about kids who are hiding diabetes because they don't. These are kids who are diagnosed later because it tends to happen Not always, but it tends to happen that kids who are diagnosed earlier are either in their community so that kids, their peers know, or they're often more comfort like, they're just more out about it. It's always been out, but not but definitely there are scenarios where teenagers won't wanna say, and so they're sort of hiding it because they feel like they will be ostracized in some way. They will be othered in some way that's uncomfortable for them. Actually, there's someone who is just on my podcast who we talked about this because her son's in a really small school. He didn't want to say, but he feels like when he goes to college, he will say, and I've definitely seen. That happen, when I interview college students, cuz it's some, it's a piece I do for my, for my coaching courses. I do some interviews with college students and put it together as a panel so that parents can see what, you know, what are the end, what are the end points or one of the end points that we can look to. And I hear that kind of story. Like I wasn't comfortable and now I just think the tech is super cool and I'm really out with it. I'm fine. Like I think that it But I don't actually hear the story of like, you know, little Sally's best friend no longer will be friends with her because of diabetes. I, that story I haven't really heard.

Katie: 47:32

Yeah, I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but yeah, I, I haven't, I haven't heard that one. Luckily, all of Sarah's little friendships have stayed intact.

Joanne: 47:40

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 47:41

You know, for, or if they haven't, it was because of some other natural reason. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they switched schools and we just, it's just a lot to keep up with and all that. What I was gonna say is that Sarah was eight when she was diagnosed, and she was actually very, she did not wanna tell anybody about her diabetes. She didn't want her device. To be seen. I mean, and you know, of course that broke my mama heart that she was kind of embarrassed or ashamed or nervous about telling other people about the diabetes, and I had to have a conversation with her of, sweetheart, I will never force you to tell. I said, Your, your teachers need to know, you know, like adults that are taking care of you during the day. Need to know at school and church and whatnot or sports or whatever. But I will leave that up to you as to whether or not you wanna tell your friends. Like that's completely your choice. I said, however, your life is going to be very challenging if you are always trying to hide your diabetes. That that's gonna be, be, become very exhausting very quickly if you're always trying to hide it. So just keep that in mind.

Joanne: 48:42

and where is she with it now? Katie?

Katie: 48:44

Yeah, so she is better. I mean, it's not like she's shouting it from the rooftops. She has never wanted me to come into her class and do like a little presentation. I know some people do that, and their kids absolutely love it. She, she would rather die honestly than happy But she's, she's much more willing to. You know, she, she came home from school one day, she's in fifth grade, and she said, I told a couple people about my diabetes. And I was like, Oh, that, that's that's wonderful. What did they, what did they say? And she was like, they were, they were just kinda like, Oh, okay. you know, ki younger kids are so nice and full of grace for the most part. But, and she's more willing to wear, you know, she doesn't really care. It being seen anymore. You know, she, she'll put it on a place on her thigh or her arm where the shirt won't cover it or whatever. It doesn't seem to be as big of an issue. She does. She still doesn't wanna lead with that, you know, or shout it from the rooftops. But it seems like she's much more willing

Joanne: 49:35

Mm-hmm.

Katie: 49:36

Talk about it. Yeah. Or if somebody asks like, What's that? You know, on her arm. And cuz I had to tell her that too. I'm like, Sweetheart, you know, kids, if they're asking you questions, they really, they are not making fun of you. Like 99.9% of the time. They're just curious. They've never seen that before. And they don't know what it is and they wanna know. So if they're staring at it or asking questions, they're, they're really just curious. So just tell'em it's my insulin pump or it's my. Blood glucose monitor and if they say, Oh, and skip away, then that's fine. Or if they have more questions, you can do your best to answer those. But so I had to talk to her about that too.

Joanne: 50:07

Yeah, that's a lovely way to handle it. I think that, most kids even, I mean, you're saying young kids, but I think even teenage kids, they don't know what it means. So you say, Oh yeah, I have type one diabetes, and it kind of goes in one ear and out the other. And like, I know kids who kids, young adults who as kids would play games with their friends. Like, let's guess the blood sugar, whoever's closest wins the prize. You know, whatever. There's no actual prize just wins the, like, you know, But I think that, you know, there are ways they, they don't actually know what it means for the person living it. And so this idea that our kids have about shame and about separating themselves is, it's inside them. It, for the most part. You're right, Katie, when people are saying, What's that? They're not saying, Ew, what's that? They're saying, What's that? Like, I don't know what that is. And they're just trying to understand something.

Katie: 50:54

Mm-hmm.

Joanne: 50:55

Yeah.

Katie: 50:55

Okay. I think, I think we should probably stop here unless there's something burning that you wanna say o Other

Joanne: 51:01

Other than thank you so much for having me on the show. I have enjoyed it so much.

Katie: 51:04

Oh my gosh, you're so welcome. Yeah, I will definitely be keeping in touch with you. I know we've already chatted about that before we start a recording, but I just, I really loved it. It's been great and the feedback from listeners. I know I've sent you a few, a message or two, but the feedback from listeners have been, has been fantastic. They've been loving it too, so thank you.

Joanne: 51:22

You're so welcome. It's been a pleasure. Thanks Katie.

Katie: 51:28

All right. Thank you so much for listening today. That is it for our episode. Again, make sure you check out those show notes. I will leave links to other episodes that I've done with Joanne. Along with a link to Joanne's website, diabetes. Sweet talk.com. And there you can find all of the wonderful things that Joanne has to offer for the type one community. All right. My friend have a fabulous week and I will chat with you soon until then stay calm and bolus on. Bye.