#92 Raising a Healthy and Competent Eater with Aren Dodge, RDN, CDCES

Today's topic is Raising a Healthy and competent eater and my awesome guest to help guide us is Aren Dodge. Aren is the owner and founder of Dodge Diabetes, she's a registered dietician, a diabetes educator, and she has been living with type 1 diabetes for nearly 30 years. As a diabetes educator, Aren has advanced training from the Ellyn Satter Intitute which you'll learn more about in today's episode. As a diabetes educator, Aren is trained on all of the FDA approved pump systems that are on the market today! Feel like you might need Aren's help? Good news! She's available! Be sure to check out the links in the show notes to be able to find her on the web and on social media. Enjoy the show!

LINKS TO FIND AREN AND LEARN MORE ABOUT ELLYN SATTER

Aren's Website: Dodge Diabetes
Aren on Instagram, @dodge_diabetes
Aren's awesome Facebook Group: Dodge Diabetes Community
Learn more about the Ellyn Satter Institute and the Division of Responsibility

Transcript

Katie: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to episode 92 of the sugar mamas podcast. Today, we are talking about raising a healthy and competent eater. And my guest is Erin Dodge. Erin is a registered dietician. She's a certified diabetes care and education specialist also known as a diabetes educator. And she's been living with type one diabetes for nearly 30 years. As a diabetes educator, Erin is trained in several of the FDA approved pump systems. Including the automated ones. And as a registered dietician, she has advanced training from the Ellyn Satter Institute, which you're going to learn more about today. As a registered dietician and a diabetes educator. Erin owns her own business. Called Dodge diabetes. So, if you feel like you might need Erin, check out all the links in the show notes to where you can find her. On our website at Dodge, diabetes.com. And on social media. She's definitely a fantastic resource for the type one community. All right. Without further ado, let's get started. You're listening to the sugar mamas podcast, a show designed for moms and caregivers of type one diabetics here. You'll find a community of like-minded people who are striving daily to keep their kids safe, happy, and healthy in the ever-changing world of type one. I'm your host and fellow T one D mom, Katie Roseboro. Before we get started. I need you to know that nothing you hear on the sugar mamas podcast should be considered medical advice. Please be safe, be smart, and always consult your physician before making changes to the way you manage type one diabetes. Thanks. I am here with a very special guest today. I'm here with Aaron Dodge. And Aaron, I'm gonna go ahead and let you introduce yourself to the listeners. Tell everybody what your connection is to type one diabetes. you have a lot of them. so tell'em your connection personally and also professionally.

Aren: 2:04

Good morning, Katie. I'm, I've had diabetes. This will be my 30 year anniversary this January. And I had a misdiagnosis and a really high like coma for two or three days, um, when I was a kid. So I've had diabetes since I was 13 and, Ever since I was diagnosed, I've been teaching my friends, teaching my teachers, family and relatives all about diabetes. So I just took that natural path and went and got a degree in nutrition Then became a diabetes educator and I got my first insulin pump in 1999 when I went to college. That tells you how old I am and, man, technology has just changed so much. Uh, no, we were chatting before about like how far it's come, but um, it's just so amazing how much we've learned about type one. We still have a lot to go, a long way to go, but, I just love teaching and I love, helping other people because my specialty is, um, at Dodge Diabetes I do one on one counseling and I have, a group class called Be Your Best Pancreas, where I teach people how to like be an insulin ninja and how to look at their CGM graphs and figure out. Trends and any weird variables and things. And I feel like that you're missing that a lot in, um, our 15 minute endocrinology appointments and follow ups and even with the diabetes educator. So having diabetes, I feel like gives me an advantage to help other people that are struggling. but as a dietician, I really enjoy. Love food. obviously my husband and I are foodies. I'm so blessed that my husband loves to cook, so, um, he has a lot of that, um, grocery shopping, um, routine in his, in his court. I just, uh, am excited. I have two kiddos. I have, um, a fourth grader in who's nine and a six year old that's in first grade. So it's an adventure here at the house.

Katie: 3:59

Oh my gosh. Okay. So many things. Um, so so you are, you're a registered dietician, which I love that you said you love food because my sister is also a registered dietician and she also just, I mean, she is a, you know, a, a rather. Slim fit person, but she just jokes around all the time how she's like the worst dietician in the world. Cuz you know, she goes to work and she, she works in, well, she works from home now for Teledoc, but she used to work in an outpatient dialysis clinic and she would of course go to work and like educate her patients on what they should be doing differently and how they can improve their overall, you know, health and nutrition. And then we'd go out to dinner and she'd get like, you know, Heinously fried item on the on the menu. And I mean, she, she certainly gets in plenty of healthy stuff too, but she, she would always joke around about how she's the worst dietician in the world.

Aren: 4:50

Yeah. Loaded nachos for the win.

Katie: 4:52

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So I, I want you to talk a little bit more about Dodge Diabetes because as a registered dietician, at least I know with my sister, like she can only. Treat people, in that field, in the state that she's licensed in. Um, is that the case for you or is this something different where through kind of your coaching courses, you can, you can get to people nationwide?

Aren: 5:13

well a lot of the coaching is like part of, so I'm also a certified diabetes educator. Mm-hmm. um, and a specialist. So I have that sort of realm too as, um, kind of a broad spectrum of things where I can kind of encourage and coach people on insulin and things. Mm-hmm. Um, I do have a pretty big following across, um, mostly the East Coast and kind of trickling into, uh, out west a little bit now. Um, but I do a lot of insulin pump trainings. Um, And really kind of help people that way as well with the technology and devices and you know, when you wear all the stuff, it just makes it so much easier to teach people when you're kind of, you know, 24 7 sort of. Tapped into it.

Katie: 5:55

Yeah, because you, I want people to know this too, like you're pretty much trained and certified in, is it all of the pumps that are out there? Which pumps are you trained in?

Aren: 6:04

I really, There's only three on the market right now that's FDA approved. Um, and previously there's been up to six or seven, which I got to wear'em all, which is the cool part about my job. but yeah, so I do mostly tradings with Omnipod and a few tandem insulin pumps here and. Um, but getting to wear all the devices and learning how the algorithms work, it really helps me be able to help other people that are trying to finagle and finesse those algorithms to really hone in and get their best blood sugars with the technology.

Katie: 6:34

Okay. So there's probably a lot of people listening right now that are like, I, I need that. I need you. So if people, if people wanna find you before we jump into our topic today, where, where can they go to find you?

Aren: 6:45

Uh, you can find me on social media, um, Dodge Diabetes, um, on Facebook. And then I also have a private Facebook community where a lot of the magic happens with some of my freebie courses and things. and that's, uh, the Dodge Diabetes community. And then I also have an Instagram account as well. And then you can go to my slowly building website, um, dodge diabetes.com.

Katie: 7:08

Yeah, I will link to all of that stuff in the show notes so people will, will know where they can go to find you, to see what you're all about and to get help from you if they, if they need it. Okay. So today's topic is a very important one, just in general for parents. Like, forget about type one diabetes for a second. Um, but definitely also for parents of type one diabetics. And Today we're going to be talking about raising A healthy eater. so I want everybody to know a about your background and your training as a dietitian. I know that just from talking with you for several months now that you're, trained, you have advanced training from the Ellen Satter Institute, which. Um, if you're in the dietitian world, especially in the pediatric, you know, dietetics world, you're probably very familiar with that name at least. So can you tell listeners, um, who Ellen Satter is and what she's known?

Aren: 8:00

Ellen Satter is my hero. She, started out as a dietitian, probably, gosh, back in the seventies. And she. Practiced as a dietician doing a weight loss clinic, and to make the long story short, she realized that it didn't work. She would coach these people and these intense weight management programs and give them meal plans and have them scour through their pantry and their kitchens and. Really be miserable to be honest and see a little bit of success, but then to see the weight come back on and she figured out that the current weight management programs that are out there on the market, only 5% of people who lose weight actually keep it off for more than a year, 5%. And that's a major failure rate in terms of, healthcare and In general, the process of things. So she went back to school after being a dietician and went into psychology and got her, psychiatry degree. So now she does, she's a dietician and a therapist, and what she found was she wanted to test her theory about people's relationships with food and how that correlates with general overall health. And what she found was crazy was that if you're a competent eater, And you can kind of feed yourself in a positive way. You enjoy food, you have a structure around your eating, and you take time to nourish yourself. That. Your outcomes are drastically better in all aspects of all health. So that would be cardiac risk factors. Your weight is in a more normal range. You're overall generally happier and don't have a lot of guilt around food. And this measurement that she did, Was was pretty surprising to a lot of the medical community and the psych psychology side of things as well, and it eventually became adopted by the American Academy of Pediatrics, and so they follow that guideline on how to teach. parents how to feed their kids. And we'll go into that in a little bit more about how to kind of be successful, with her approach and the division of responsibility.

Katie: 10:16

Okay. Yes, I definitely wanna touch on that and the division of responsibility, cause I know that's. That's like her big thing and I want listeners to know about that too. Um, but you, you kind of used the term competent eater A minute ago when you were saying, you know, she she has found that if you are a competent eater and you're good at nourishing yourself and taking care of yourself and listening to your body, then you're be a lot more successful than trying to restrict. So can you just like, what is, what does it mean to be a competent eater? Um, to you or, and, and or to Ellen Satter.

Aren: 10:50

Competent eating is just where you trust yourself to be able to stop when you're full, to eat, when you're hungry, and to not have a lot of emotion. Tied with like guilt or, Oh, I shouldn't be eating that or, and just really be joyful about eating and coming to the table and focusing on so many other aspects of nutrition besides just the calories and the protein and the fat. And I know that's tricky when you're, when you have diabetes or you're raising a child that has diabetes, not to just focus on all the. But more on the emotional side of how food brings us all together and, you know, having that joy around the table.

Katie: 11:30

I know, I, I'm very big on, I mean, we really try to have family meals as much as possible and we could, you know, we we'll talk about that too, cuz she, she talks about that a lot in her book. Um, Erin suggested that I read, um, a book by Ellen Satter. She said they're all good, but she said, If I was gonna pick one to read this one called Your Child's Weight. Helping Without harming. and I did, I did, I skimmed some of it, but read most of it and It was really a great read. I feel like just the title could probably be pretty triggering for some people, to be quite honest. It was a little triggering for me cuz I was a pretty overweight kid. So I was like, Oh geez, what is, what kind of light is this gonna shed on on things? but what, what I was gonna say is, um, you know, in You know, we we don't follow the Ellen Saturn method. Exactly to a T and we're gonna talk about that, what it is in a minute. But one thing I do is if my kids are just eating lunch, you know, and they're maybe on a device, like if they're sitting there with their iPad next to em, like playing Minecraft or the phone, I always. I make them get off the screen cuz I'm like, I want your full attention to be on your food because I've, I really feel like there's a mental tie to like your experience of eating. It's just not, it's not just about like, shoving calories in your face that makes you full and satisfied. Like, I feel like being able to kind of focus on your food and experience, it makes you fuller. allows you to kind of remain fuller for longer, and it's like, it, it like registers with your brain more that you've actually eaten a full meal. Whereas when you're Kind of doing something else at the same time while you're eating. It's like it almost doesn't register with your brain, or at least with my brain. I know that if I'm scrolling on my phone and eating a bowl of oatmeal, I feel like I'm hungrier an hour later than I If I had hadn't been scrolling on my phone and eating at the same time.

Aren: 13:13

Yeah. You look down in your sandwiches gone and you don't even remember eating it, and so being more mindful because your body's giving you constant cues. Mm-hmm. just like when you're. When your kids were babies, you had to pay really close attention or you were gonna get, the bowl thrown at you or spit at you. And so as babies we're born with the ability to know how much to eat, when to eat, and sort of that, demand. So you're constantly, you know, listening for the baby cry. And as a mom you could hear which cry is a hungry cry, and my diapers wet and. If you can just support and, feed in that loving way where you're providing and not restricting, then I think you're gonna find that, you can create a child that has that joyful around the table that, has competent eating skills and that will eventually grow up with those. That's a huge skill set to be able to have competent eating as an adult. And we all know. That you go out to dinner with and they like, don't like to eat in front of people, or they'll order salad and just push it around, or they don't really, or they're not in the moment and don't enjoy the food. Or they're obsessed with, you know, how perfect their, their nutritional like kind of profile is and their plate and they don't enjoy it. Like your sister, she goes out and enjoys her. It's not her everyday routine that she does the fried stuff, but again, you get a lot of joy out of it. You enjoy the company and it's really sad when people, um, as adults, they don't have that joy around eating. And we wanna have that for our kids as well. So hopefully we'll get to all the details of how you can do that soon.

Katie: 14:52

Yeah, let's do that now actually. So, she, her big phrase, that she has coined is called the division of responsibility, which is kind of her method, Of how to, and by the way, you're the expert. So if I'm saying something wrong, you feel free to stop me and be like, No, Katie, that's totally wrong. Um, but so her, the division of responsibility is kind of her method parents to kind of bring back that joy to, to eating at the table, and kind of allow kids to kind of figure out on their own, How much food they need and when they need it and and whatnot. So could you, could you talk about that? Could you explain to listeners what is the division of responsibility and how, she kind of suggests that we put it into practice in our

Aren: 15:36

Right. So, the division of responsibility divvies up jobs for the parents when they're preparing the meal and jobs for the infant or the child. So the job of the parent or the caregiver is the, what you're feeding. When you're feeding it and where you're eating it. Okay? And if you can stay within those boundaries of your jobs, then the child will be able to show up at the table and be responsible for how much they eat and whether or not they eat at all. And as long as you don't kind of tiptoe into the child's responsibility, what they found, and again, this is what's supported by the American Academy of Pediatrics, um, when raising a competent, healthy eater, is that. The child will grow up to get the body that's right for them. They'll be able to learn cues and push themselves along for hunger and satiety. They'll get a variety of different foods that are sort of introduced to them so they can try different things and kind of develop their, their pallet and taste buds for a variety of different foods and, again, have that joy in feeding and eating.

Katie: 16:49

when I was reading through it, like she was talking about how she had all these parents coming to her, very anxious and worried was cuz their kid was, was gaining a lot of weight or just wasn't eating at all at the dinner table. And what she found is that these parents were putting, um, very kind of strict rules around what their kids could eat and how much of it they could eat. Um, and just really restricting their diets Quite a bit right In both and, and what they're eating in the quantity of it. so she found that you. if you kind of take off those res a little bit, which we're gonna talk about this in a little bit, but that can be very scary for the parent of a type one diabetic to be like, eat however much of this you want, but she found that as long as the parents brought to the table the food that was being. Eaten. Right? Like the parents got to choose what was being eaten and when, Right. The time and where, whether that was at the family dinner table or at a, you know, at a, obviously at a restaurant you can't choose the the what so much cuz people are ordering from a menu, but,

Aren: 17:50

or even on in the car on the way to soccer practice. You know, sometimes it gets crazy at after school activities,

Katie: 17:56

Right, Right, right, right. So if you show up with the food, And basically let your child know, Okay, this is what we're eating. You can eat as much of it as you want, or nothing at all, Um, that's fine, right? I'm gonna let you make that decision. that's where the child responsibility comes in of how much and whether or not, So she found, If the children were allowed to make those decisions about how much or whether they ate or not, then there was a lot more success with getting kids on a healthier path, um, to eating their meals. And then she was finding too that the weight was getting regulated. And I, and I say that cautiously because I don't mean that all of a sudden the kids dropped a bunch of weight, but in the sense that they were now starting to grow. Normally on the growth chart, the growth chart was showing consistent growth and weight and height. then that was considered successful.

Aren: 18:51

Right. So anytime parents interfere in the kids' jobs around feeding, then. It's usually results in, a negative outcome. And what we found in research is that if you have a heavy child and you try to restrict their food, the child will typically get heavier. Hmm. And if you have a child that's underweight that you're trying to encourage and eat, have them eat more and try to add more calories in here and there that they will typically. Thinner. So it's almost like, I mean, you guys have been parents, you know how how that opposite effect kind of happens psychologically so they can sense your interference and that you're trying to persuade them into doing something that they just really don't wanna do and they'll fight back. The big trigger in what you wanna look for, especially for children who are on the heavier side, is if you're over restricting, they'll start sneaking food. Mm-hmm. or if you're over restrictive with, Your allowance of some of the not so healthy, like forbidden foods, which we'll go into, a little bit down the road. Then you're gonna find, again, sneaking food over consuming, to the point where, it becomes more of an issue than it was if you would've just. Supported your child's eating, as they go. Because what we know with kids and their growth is it's not a smooth, perfect growth chart. Mm-hmm. is that a lot of times kids will get a little chubby mm-hmm. and then they'll grow like two inches. Mm-hmm. and then they'll get a little chubby and then they'll grow two more inches. So you have to trust the process. And again, like you said, it's not gonna fix itself overnight or even. Three to six to nine months. And with younger kids, it's a pretty quick turnaround if you can start applying these, these approaches with, the division or responsibility. But for older kids, you're unraveling a lot of, a lot of things that have been sort of in place for several years. So it may take a little longer to see strides in, that competent eating and. With, with the division of responsibility, again, like you said, you sort of offer the foods that you're gonna select. So let's say it's, you know, a meat and size and a glass of milk or a, you know, butter bread or something like that. So your child can choose any combination of those items from that meal that you're serving and eat as much or as little or none of it that they want. The key piece though is that you have established structure around that meal. So the worst thing that I see happen with parents is snacking. And if your child's not coming to the dinner table hungry, number one, their behavior's gonna be terrible. They're just gonna be jerks. Number two, they're not gonna be hungry, which means they're not gonna eat the items that you've took all this time to prepare. Cause let's face it, making family meals is hard work. And when no one eats, it's like. The biggest insult ever, you know? Yeah. And it makes you not wanna do it again. It was like, well that was just a waste. I should have just made peanut butter and jelly. Or, you know what, I'm just sort of, and, and there's nothing wrong with peanut butter and jelly for dinner but effort wise, it's a lot of work and a lot of energy to put into preparing meals. So you want your child to show up hungry, so, in the structure of feeding, it's typically, you know, three meals a day and then maybe a snack or two or three depending on your child's age, so that after school snack, you're gonna offer. The item that you're gonna select and they can eat as much or as little of it as they want, but, and once that snack is over, they can't graze until they sit down at the dinner table. the recommendation is only water between meals or snacks.

Katie: 22:36

Yeah. I had to Put this into practice in my own house. at some point because my, you know, my kids will come home from school and, they'll say they wanna snack, but then they'll do their homework and they'll watch TV for a little while and then they'll go out and play and then they come back in at five 30 when we're gonna eat dinner at six or six 30 and now they're ready for their snack. And it's like, well, no, the snack window is closed. and I guess I realized that I wasn't really verbalizing that very well. Like there is a certain time that I want you to eat a snack and be done eating your snack. And then after that there's, you know, there's nothing until, dinner. because otherwise you're gonna ruin your meal. And I, like you said, I worked hard to cook this meal and it took me a long time to think about it and buy the stuff and prepare it and all that. so we kind of had to start doing that. And with Sarah specifically, if we wanna look at it from a type one lens, you know, we'll be in the car on the way home from school. And I always ask, what are you gonna have for a snack when you get. And some days she says, I don't wanna have a snack. And, I say that, that's fine, but just remember that like, you know, we're not gonna be snacking close to dinner, so if you want to eat something, you need to eat it when we get home from school. you know, and then, but most days she does wanna snack and she tells me, you know, I just want, grapes or something, which grapes. great, Right. They're healthy food and it's one of Sarah's favorite foods, but I try to encourage her to eat a little something more, which. maybe, Maybe, that's the wrong thing to do, but just for for the lens of type one, like, I I wanna bolus for the snack, and then I wanna be done bolusing until dinner. I mean, I'm not opposed to like seconds or thirds at a meal, but with snacking, I don't really wanna be just snacking and grazing all the way through the afternoon until we hit, until we hit dinner. So I try to encourage her like, Hey, what if we added a cheese stick to that, or maybe some pepperoni slices, or try to get her to eat a little something more substantial. to carrier through, and so I'm only having the goal once.

Aren: 24:22

and my kids are starved when they get home, depending on what they had for lunch or what they did during the day. they're ready to eat their arm off. So I. Again, putting the homework down and like focusing on the snack. And even if it's okay, even to set a timeframe, be like, Listen, finish up your snack. We gotta move on and work on homework and do these other things. And so you have five more minutes to finish your snack and then we're gonna put it away. but what you did with offering the cheese or the pepperoni or whatever else to go with the, the, grapes is perfect. Now. It would be her decision to say, eh, not feeling cheese or grapes, but. As, feeding with love, and even with diabetes, you could kind of suggest, hey, let's get the boles in a little bit earlier. Do the like pre boles for the grapes. and you can kind of talk her through, and I know you do a great job of being a good teammate with your daughter with diabetes too, and just cheerleading and encourag. but prebus are tricky. They don't always, you don't always have that perfect window to be able to do that. but you just have to be really careful that you don't tiptoe into her realm of responsibility with, the how much and weather. does that make sense with the timing and, and dosing

Katie: 25:32

Yeah, and I do wanna encourage parents too with the how much aspect, like if I bo list for X amount of grapes in the, in the car. And then we got home and Sarah, I measured those out and Sarah ate them and then right then and there was like, can I have some more? don't, I personally don't have a problem with that. Ive, I, have found that if I can get that first pre bowlus in, in working, the first time around that, and there's already something working in her system that it's not necessarily necessary, at least for us, for Sarah to do another prelist before she has like another handful of grapes. Like I can just give her the insulin then and she can eat the grapes. And And that seems to work well when there's already some, something working in her system. Um, So I feel like a lot of people get a little panicky type one parents about that. About the how much, Like, oh no, now they want seconds or thirds and, I don't know. I have found, I don't know what your experience has been in your own type one journey, but I have found that if we can kind of get the insulin flowing first, the, the second pre bolus doesn't matter as much.

Aren: 26:32

Right, Right. And now again, I'm a diabetes dinosaur and I still remember as a kid being on an exchange list. And for you guys that are newbies, an exchange list was back before, like literally I was diagnosed when food labels just had come out in 1993 and. I had a meal plan of, I got one serving of fruit and I got one starch and a meat and like, so it was a very regimented routine as a teenager and so I had to eat to match up with my insulin. Mm-hmm. and now because of all the advancements in diabetes and what we know we can now. Match the insulin with the food. So you're doing the perfect approach. And now when you're on an insulin pump, that makes life a lot easier if you want seconds. Mm-hmm. Um, what I would tell parents who are on injections is depending on the age of the child, You can let them decide. You can put the, the, um, responsibility kind of in their decision court and say, Hey, listen, I know you want more grapes, or, I know you want another scoop of rice, but we already do for this much rice. You can either. and then kind of lay out the option so you can either eat a little bit more meat and more green beans and not have to take an injection, or if you really want that rice, we're gonna have to do another injection. And that gives them the choice and the responsibility, in their division of responsibility with feeding so that they can choose more. But then they realize they have to have that responsibility with diabetes of taking a little more insulin. and just having empathy and letting your child make that decision. on their own about taking a shot because I mean, if it's delicious, It's worth an extra injection for me for another two slices of pizza or something like that. Mm-hmm. you have to kind of give them a little bit more reins and when they're going through a growth spurt, man, they'll eat you outta house and home. Mm-hmm. So as much as you try to guesstimate how much they're going to eat, they may surprise you.

Katie: 28:25

I'm definitely experiencing that right now. Mostly with my older son who's a, Who's 12? Oh my gosh. I just, he just eats so much food, which I know that's normal. Right? that's that's just normal for that age. But I'm like, Oh, we're gonna have to increase the grocery budget coming up here, I think. I I wanna talk too about, you know, I feel like people should definitely go look up Ellen Satter's method. I think her philosophy around eating is, I definitely love it. I think that for type one parents, it might be a little, anxiety inducing at first. and I have a question about that in just a second. I wanna come back to it. but I also know that there's a lot of people out there that are gonna read it and or hear it and not agree with it. And, and not. I, I, just wanna say in the middle of the episode here, that. It's just, it's not gonna be for every, like, everything I say isn't gonna be for everybody. This is just one method. A very, it's a very popular method. It's, you know, it's very, it was adopted by the American Academy of Pediatrics. so it, you know, it's very, very popular, very well known. Um, highly respected method, but it's also not for everybody. And we might touch on that in another episode cuz Erin's gonna do a couple episodes with me. But, um, okay, so I want, I wanted to go back and say that with the division of responsibility, In the book and this was causing me to sweat a little bit while I was reading it, but she, you know, she's, you as the parent, you provide what they eat. That might mean you have rolls on the table. Like you said, you have steak, you have green beans or whatever it may be, but it's up to the kid to decide what they eat or whether or not they eat. So if they decide they don't want any steak or green beans, but they want to eat five rolls, like she says. Let'em do that. she says to let them do that and they will figure out, kind of how to navigate that and how to slowly incorporate more foods and increase their palate when it comes to foods like meats and vegetables and things like that. would you talk about that a little bit and maybe just, um, help parents of type one s uh, ease our fears around letting our kids eat an entire basket of bread

Aren: 30:23

picky eating is one of the biggest concerns that moms and parents have around eating. And what we know is that. When there's pressure around eating or the one bite role, or you have to eat this before you can get up from the table, that that creates a lot of anxiety in a child's mind around that food. And again, it's almost like reverse psychology. Like there's some reason they want me to eat this, but I don't wanna eat it, kind of thing. And you know your kids and your family better than anybody else and some. Dig their heels in way more than others and their personalities. But what they know is that it takes anywhere from 10 to 20 exposures to a new food for a child or even an adult to come around to get. Comfortable with it and to like it. And so what might seem like to a lot of moms, they said after three introductions to a new food, moms chalked it up like, Eh, well, they don't like that. I'm not gonna serve that again. Where it actually takes a lot more repetition than you'd actually think to a food before it to become familiar. And for people to try it, for kids to try it. And I know, even the differences in my two kids, like my older daughter is so much more adventurous with food. She's not afraid to put something in her mouth and be like, Oh, that's terrible, and spit it back out. But my son is, He will start gagging before it even hits his lips, like he's already decided in his head. But what they found is that the more pressure you put around eating and trying a new food and, and adding, again, you want it to be like a neutral sort of playing field at the dinner table to where if they wanna try it, they can. If not, they don't. And it's just kind of like, eh, you know. and you have to trust the process and some kids are gonna be more adventurous. Like I said, with my daughter and her pallet, she likes a lot more items than my son does, but he's really starting to come around and try new foods and, and at least let it sit on his plate cuz at one point. With green beans, he wouldn't even let it touch his plate. He would set it off to the side, off on his napkin, and now he's getting to where he'll squish it and smush it with his finger. and that's signs that he's coming around to adopting and getting around to liking that new food. So just be patient. And again, if you're serving, meat and potatoes at all your meals, then your child's not gonna learn to, like caviar and sushi. Mm-hmm. If you're serving and using the divisional responsibility, your child will grow up to get to like and choose foods that you already serve and like that are familiar, and then be adventurous to try other things as you push them out of the nest and they go try other, other families', meals or at other, other opportunities at restaurants and things.

Katie: 33:17

Yeah, I can definitely speak to that, especially for My my Sarah, thank goodness, my type one, she is my most adventurous eater. so she's very, she loves all sorts of vegetables and she's willing to try almost anything. Um, my two boys on the other hand, must be a boy thing. Maybe maybe not. Um, I'm sure there's a lot of picky girls out there, but they are a lot more hesitant to try, especially my youngest to try new food. But with my oldest kid, we had to have a conversation in our family. a few years ago, just about dinner time because it was very stressful for me because I like, like you've already touched on, like, I would, I would mentally plan what I was gonna buy, go to the grocery store, unload the groceries, prep the meal, you know, then have to clean up the meal. So it was very stressful for me to sit down at the table and have an unpleasant experience. Like I just wanted to sit down with my family. Did not care what they put in their mouths. Honestly, I didn't care if they ate or what they ate. I just was like, I just wanted, This is our really only time of the day to sit down and have a meal together. I just want it to be pleasant and I don't actually care what they're eating, which I'm sure some parents are listening to that and are just absolutely horrified. But listen, I'm not everybody's cup of tea. That's just, that's just me. So I, and I, you know, singing as the meals were primarily my responsibility. I was like, can we. Not care quite as much about what You know, people are eating. cuz I did not like, you know, I'm forcing them to take one bite of something before they could, you know, get up from the table or try everything on their plate before they could get up. Like, that just wasn't my jam. I told my husband, I was like, at this point in time, like if I can just put broccoli on the table and they can see it, and they can identify a piece of broccoli, then I'm happy with that. Like they could just know what a piece of broccoli is or know what a brussel sprout is like. That's sounds great to me. And so we agreed on that just because, you know, it was something that was stressing me out. So we agreed on that. And I will say that over time, just being patient and continuing to serve a variety of foods, but also not care About the. Whether or not those foods were being eaten because hon I love leftovers, so whatever's not eaten, I will eat the next day or a couple days after. Like, that's fine with me. but I will say over time that like, especially my oldest son, I mean, he's really starting to get pretty adventurous with what he will eat and what he will try. I mean, he still doesn't love to eat a bowl of broccoli, but you know, he'll we got to restaurants and he orders something that's not chicken tenders or a cheeseburger, you know, he'll, he's branching out and he's trying new things and you know, he's asking for salad now at dinner, where before I would just, just, my husband and I would have salad or whatever. you know, I just wanted to say that so parents would have some hope and just, you know, have the long view, have the bigger picture in mind that it's gonna take Some time. and certainly shoving a piece of broccoli down somebody's throat is not gonna make them love it.

Aren: 36:09

and honestly, the amount of exposures with a neutral, like your dinner table where you're not pressured, you, you can take it or leave it. When you don't fuss, it makes them more curious and they're more likely to try it sooner and less exposures than if you pressure and you force and you have to take one bite. And it's almost like a mental block that they make where I am never gonna like broccoli, you know, kind of thing. And. Kids are, kids have got some, they're, they're pretty, they'll flex on you big time

Katie: 36:42

They can hold a broccoli grudge for a long time,

Aren: 36:45

And so we don't want broccoli grudges. And, it makes dinner time so much more pleasant. It makes the kids excited to come to the table. And family meals are a lost art. And again, just turning the TV off, sitting down together, having a meal, enjoying. Having that conversation is really what kids thrive in, what adults thrive in and that structure. And, they've shown that socially they do way better in terms of, drugs and, and cigarettes and promiscuous, actions. And then even. The relationship with their family. They eat more vegetables, they do better in school. They have a better outlook just in positivity in general. So it's just amazing how those connections over the week with your kiddos at that family meal, um, can make a huge difference in, your relationships.

Katie: 37:40

we don't get to eat a family meal together every single night just because of activities and work schedules and and things like that. But we, we make it a point to do it, at least, you know. three three nights a week, I would, at minimum, that would, you know, we we really shoot for that. And then, you know, and then there's weekends too where it doesn't have to be dinner. You know, I think people get stuck in this mindset of, Oh, it has to be this dinner. This public's beautiful public's commercial esque dinner where we're all sitting down together. It could be breakfast, sometimes Saturday morning, we're all sitting around the breakfast table together and chatting or, I'll come in on a Sunday for lunch from doing whatever we're doing and, and eat lunch together, just kind of standing around the the kitchen counter. It doesn't have to be this formal sit down situation necessarily. Um, and she even talks about it can be, you know, in the, like you said, in the car on the way to soccer practice or, um, even at a restaurant, which again, it, it's a little harder to do with the what you're going eat of the division of responsibility, but, But it's really more about the connections that you're having together as a family. that kind of helps with kids kind of growing into being more competent eaters

Aren: 38:46

mm-hmm. and having that joy around the meal, and having it nourish your body. And, and I feel like with, with diabetes, we know that there's so much emphasis put on food that it's really hard to enjoy, so you have to make. intentional, especially I think with type one to make food joyful, and not associate it with, I'll have to take an injection. Oh, you know, there's always a fight around dinner and, and am I eating the right amount of carbs? And then seeing the numbers and, and even making, judgements about what the sugars do in terms of feeling guilty for eating certain foods. So again, it's just data, it's information and you wanna maintain that joy around eating. Even if diabetes tries to steal that joy a

Katie: 39:32

Yeah. I'm just curious, like with you being on the exchange di with you being on the exchange diet back in the day being, being the diabetes dinosaur that you are, that's a good term. I like it. did that create some unhealthy relationships with food for you? Like did you have to kind of undo that over the years or was it Not a big.

Aren: 39:53

I think so. I don't know. I was kind of a compliant child, like, so I kind of went along with the rules, whereas some of my friends that had diabetes would like sneak me like sneak snacks and foods and things like that. So I think it kind of depends on each child. And again, mamas, you guys know your kids into their personalities the best. But I was pretty compliant with it. But then I remember when it switched over to just being carb counting later in my teen. It was like, and then I went on the insulin pump, like when I was around 17. It was just amazing to have that freedom and flexibility and not feeling like I had to eat breakfast, lunch, snack, you know, like. This regimented routine to match up with my nph and r then now I could just eat when I wanted, like a, like a normal kid would. I feel like I did have a little bit of animosity towards my diabetes. but I felt like it was kind of the rules that I had to follow, but not a lot of kids. That resonates with, they'll push back, they'll dig their heels in, they'll, you'll have a lot more issues with, kids following in that regime and strict, rebellious kind of, things around food because no one likes to be told what to eat. Like if you get, you know, diagnosed with some chronic illness and you have to cha like, there's a lot of resentment about that. even if it's just something like low salt.

Katie: 41:22

Mm.

Aren: 41:22

I feel like with diabetes, especially when you're raising and you're, you're learning about, food and how it interacts with your body and listening to cues about fullness, it makes it really hard to be successful with diabetes, especially if you're not, if you're getting caught up in the rules so much in terms of, again, you need to match the insulin with the food and not the food, with the insulin.

Katie: 41:46

Yeah. Okay. so before we wrap up, how, you know, for all the for the type one parents that are listening, which that's pretty much everyone That's the vast majority of listeners. I guess just, you know, I feel like. people listening are probably probably think it's a, this sounds a little bit like a free for all, but I promise you if you read through one of her books, or get on her website, I'll, I'll, leave a link to Ellen Satter's website. As well in the show notes. It's, it is very structured. you know, it's giving kids the freedom to eat as much as they want. you know, when you have provided them the food to eat. But, you know, I, but then also as, Hold on, let me back up. So I feel like, you know, type one parents might hear that and get really anxious, right? Because that's, that can make managing the insulin and the blood sugars and the diabetes a little tricky. but it is very structured and, you know, I I guess I want you to kind of speak into a way that parents could reconcile. Her method, Ellen Satter's method that has has been very successful and is, is, very, you know, respected and well known with kind of giving our kids, um, with also managing diabetes, I guess without totally, and unc clipping the seatbelt and letting go of the reins and just saying, you know, do whatever you want and we'll fix it later. Does that make sense?

Aren: 43:19

Yeah, no, I mean, I totally, I totally get it cuz it's, it's a lot of control that you don't wanna let go of because you just don't wanna just let the blood sugars go berserk. So I would probably say, and I was blessed to have an amazing mom that. She just knew how to follow, like she automatically followed the, the division of responsibility. But I would say communication and being that team, echoing the team player kind of attitude towards your child with type one, because you're in it together. And so if you can have those open lines of communication, like you're talking about with the grapes on the way home from school, that. Her be a better pancreas by dosing ahead of time. You can kind of get an idea of what we're gonna have for snack and kind of get all that stuff lined up. And then, like we were talking about before with communication, like, Oh mom, I'm still really hungry. I want another two pieces of pizza. And then working together to figure out the best plan to make that happen. Whether it's giving another injection, whether it's having more veggies or salad or, or pepperoni sticks or something else to kind of balance things out, but really still allowing that child to have that autonomy with. The, with their job of how much and weather mm-hmm. um, especially during those growth spurts and things as well or even um, special events and things like that. I feel like if you can just stay on your, on your tippy toes and do it the best you can most of the time mm-hmm. and then you can always go back and take correction doses to accommodate for that. And that's another way too to, without it being a judgment. In a judgey, sort of, I told you so sort of way as a mom or a caregiver is to be like, Oh man, I'm sorry, your sugar's 300. Maybe next time we should blah, blah, blah. Or what do you think we could do next time that would make you feel not so sick? Mm-hmm. and really kind of, troubleshoot together. Come up with the idea of how to change it next time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? Because it takes a lot of practice with dosing and, and especially like with pizza and those challenging foods to get it right. So communi, keeping those lines of communication open so that they don't feel restricted, but that you're a team together in figuring out the dosing as a pancreas.

Katie: 45:43

Okay. So lots and lots of communication and just keeping those doors open. Got it. Okay. So do you use the division of responsibility in your house with your kids?

Aren: 45:52

I do. I do. And it's funny, like I said, Ev my kids are absolutely like very different, like mm-hmm. and it's just interesting to see them fall into their personalities and their food preferences and things and, Not everybody gets their favorite dinner every night. And so, you know, my son loves cheeseburgers and so that's his big win. And my daughter likes Caesar salad and spaghetti, so like, Everybody will get their favorite meal and you just reinforce that, you know, we all sat down together and there's gonna be something that you like at the table, whether it's the the four rolls with butter that they eat or not, but it will push them along. To like more foods and to be more adventurous and trying new things and just, you know, finding something they like at that meal. Mm-hmm. If not, they'll just be hungry and then there'll be another opportunity for them to have, a healthy snack or something later after dinner, or bring the same meal out again. That, you know, they'll know, you know, that they'll eat something else off of that plate too. At dinner or at the snack time. So, they'll have something if they're still hungry, there'll be another opportunity for them to eat. Again, you're not trying to, to, Kind of play puppet, master manipulate the food kind of in the background. But kids, it's interesting. Kids versus adults. So adults will eat stuff because it's healthy for them. Mm-hmm. kids will not eat anything that doesn't taste good. So make sure that you're, when you're preparing the food that you're. using stuff that makes it taste good. Butter, really healthy, good for healthy brains. dressings and, and salt and things that make the foods taste better, for everybody.

Katie: 47:38

.Mm-hmm. Yes. I love it. I, She talked about butter a lot. I'm like, I can get on board with this situation. I love butter

Aren: 47:47

all those healthy fats, man, that make that brain grow and all those neurons and stuff. Fire. Yeah. Yep.

Katie: 47:53

Yep. I was just having a conversation with my oldest son the other day about fat and food cuz he was asking me questions about something like, if you didn't eat any fat, would you like just be bones and muscles or, you know, whatever. I forget how he worded it, but I was like, actually your body. Requires fat. Like fat is not a bad thing. I feel like our society has made everybody think that it's a bad thing, but you actually need it to survive. It coats every nerve in your body. It coats your brain. It, you know, you need fat, but I, but there's healthy fats and there's not so healthy fats, and so we talked a little bit about that, but um, yeah, people, you need some fat. So get some butter, Get some real butter.

Aren: 48:31

Here's the butter,

Katie: 48:32

here's the butter we're having. We're having rolls and butter for dinner. I don't know about you. He sounds really good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I know you're gonna come back on and we're. Talk about a few other things. Um, I think that was definitely a good start to kind of just raising a healthy eater in general. and some ideas for people to think about on, on, how to do that and how to maybe not be as restrictive in their feeding methods. and that sounds scary, especially to type one parent. But, I think in the long run it just leads to, like you said, being a more successful and a more competent eater and just have a, having a healthier mindset around food in general as you grow up and become an adult and are managing diabetes on your own.

Aren: 49:16

Right. And I feel like if it feels like a loving way, then that's a good, you know, you're on the right track. where you're not restricting or, again, the meal times are pleasant. And I would encourage you guys to go to, the Ellen Satter website. It's the Ellen Satter Institute. Mm-hmm. And look at that division of responsibility and kind of wrap your brain around that concept. And then what's really great is there's age specific tips and. On that website that can show you, depending on how old your child is, what that looks like in terms of, letting them choose their snacks as they get a little bit older. They can choose their afternoon snacks or, how you should prepare the food in terms of, offering the family meals. And so just different little inside tricks and tips that can help you, really embrace and be more successful with the division of responsibility and that

Katie: 50:07

Okay, great. Yeah, again, I will leave a link to that in the show notes as well as a link to all of your stuff so people will be able to find you. okay. Well thank you so much Erin. Thank you for your time and thanks for coming on today. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Aren: 50:20

All right. You're so welcome, Katie. I hope it can be helpful for all those mamas out there.

Katie: 50:23

Oh, I'm have no doubt that I will be. Thank you. That's it for our show today. I hope you enjoyed listening. Aaron we'll be back with me next week. When we talk about. How to handle and encourage our picky eaters. You're not going to want to miss that Again, make sure to check out all the links in the show notes. I'll have a link to Aaron's website, Dodge, diabetes.com. As well as to where you can find Erin on social media. Including Instagram and Facebook. She has an awesome Facebook group, a great little community on there. And you're going to want to check that out. All right. My friends, I hope you have a fabulous week. I will chat with you soon, but until then stay calm and bolus on by.