366: Why Every Organization Needs a "Show Bible" with Robyn Hatcher

Every workplace has an unwritten script. It shapes how decisions are made, how conflict is handled, who gets heard, and who gets promoted. If you do not understand that script, you may find yourself improvising during some of the most important moments in your career.

In this episode of The Mid-Career GPS Podcast, I’m joined by Robyn Hatcher, a former soap opera writer for All My Children and One Life to Live who now helps leaders communicate with greater confidence, clarity, and influence.

Robyn introduces the concept of a “Show Bible,” the behind-the-scenes guide that captures a show’s characters, relationships, history, motivations, and conflicts. Every organization has its own version, even if nobody has written it down. Understanding your company’s history, power dynamics, communication styles, and unwritten workplace rules can help you navigate conflict, build stronger relationships, and make more informed career decisions.

We also examine the difference between policy onboarding and culture onboarding. Most organizations teach new employees about systems, procedures, and benefits. Far fewer explain how feedback actually works, what leaders expect during one-on-one meetings, which teams operate in silos, or which questions may feel unsafe to ask.

If you were never taught how your organization truly operates, Robyn explains how you can retrofit your onboarding by observing patterns, asking better questions, and paying attention to how people communicate.

We also share two practical communication frameworks you can use to prepare for and navigate difficult workplace conversations.

Her EDIT method helps you:

• Examine the situation objectively
• Decode the underlying dynamics
• Identify the outcome you want
• Translate your message for the person receiving it

Her LUVE method helps you:

• Listen carefully
• Understand the other person’s perspective
• Validate what you have heard
• Express your message and make a clear request

These tools can help you communicate your value, advocate for yourself, manage workplace conflict, and strengthen your leadership presence without sacrificing your authentic voice.

Robyn and I also discuss why toxic leadership behaviors spread, how silence allows workplace drama to continue, and what it means to become an “oasis” that colleagues can trust. We close with a simple personal brand audit that can help you identify your strengths, collect evidence of your impact, and speak about your value with greater confidence.

If you are a mid-career professional who feels overlooked, misunderstood, or uncertain about how to navigate your workplace, this conversation will help you read the culture more accurately and communicate more intentionally.

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• How Robyn followed the “breadcrumbs” from acting and soap opera writing to leadership communication coaching
• What a Show Bible is and why every workplace has an unwritten version
• How workplace culture and power dynamics affect communication, conflict, and promotions
• Why traditional employee onboarding often fails to explain how an organization really operates
• How to retrofit your onboarding when you were not given the cultural information you needed
• What to observe when decoding workplace communication styles and unwritten rules
• How to use the EDIT method to prepare for difficult workplace conversations
• How to use the LOVE method to listen, validate, and communicate a clearer request
• Why toxic leadership behaviors spread throughout an organization
• How silence can protect dysfunction and sustain workplace drama
• How to become a trusted and steady presence on your team
• Why the right mentor may recognize your leadership potential before you do
• How to conduct a personal brand audit and gather evidence of your professional value

You do not need to become someone else to communicate more effectively. You need to understand the environment, prepare your message, and take greater command of how you show up.

Because how you SHOW UP matters.

Click here to take Robyn’s Leadership Communication Survey.

Click here to visit Robyn’s website.

Click here to connect with Robyn on LinkedIn.

Transcript

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Welcome And A Soap Opera Lesson

John Neral 0:02

Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. I'm your host, John Neral. This is the show for mid-career professionals who feel stuck, undervalued, or unsure what's next, and know that doing more isn't the answer. Here, we focus on how you show up. That means how you make clear decisions, build influence, and take control of your career. Let's get started. This is going to be a fun one. So a few months ago, earlier this summer in June, I'm in Texas speaking at Next Up's Rising Stars Conference. And one of the best parts of this conference is I get to spend time with Cait Donovan. Kate has become a wonderful professional connection colleague and more importantly, a friend. I had her back on the podcast in episode 127, where we talked about avoiding career burnout. So I want you to go back and check out that episode as well. But we're just kind of chit-chatting and talking about things and life in general. And I turned to her and with a little bit of a quip, I say, this is why I watch General Hospital every day. Because if those people can get through their lives and all that drama, I can get through anything. And her face lights up and she looks at me and she goes, Oh my gosh. She goes, I just interviewed someone for my show who used to be a scriptwriter for soap operas. And we start talking. And in a few moments, you are going to meet the amazing Robyn Hatcher. Now, there's a couple things I want you to know about Robyn. Yes, she used to be an actor and a soap opera writer. She wrote for the daytime dramas All My Children and One Life to Live. And today, she draws on her background as an actor, writer, educator, and coach to work with leaders and organizations to decode the hidden dynamics that shape workplace communication and rewrite the scripts that keep people from doing their best work. In our conversation, Robyn's going to share something about a show Bible. And as you're listening to that part of the conversation, I want you to think about how you are onboarded in your company and how your company is currently onboarding their employees as well. Robyn is the author of Standing Ovation Presentations, the creator of Actor Types, and was named one of the 21 women of the 21st century by eWomen's News. I'm going to put a link in the show notes to Robyn's leadership communications survey. I would love for you to check the show notes and go ahead and take that survey to help her out and her research as she continues to work with leaders and organizations across the globe. So without any further ado, I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. It is my pleasure to introduce you to Robyn Hatcher. Robyn Hatcher, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you here today.

Robyn Hatcher 3:31

Thank you, John. I am so happy to be here. And thanks for having me.

John Neral 3:34

Yeah, absolutely. And a big shout out to our friend Cait Donovan, who we know in common. I shared a little bit about her in the introduction, but such a great person. So glad we're connected to her as well.

Robyn Hatcher 3:45

Yes, me too. Thank you, Cait.

John Neral 3:47

Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Kate. We we look forward to you listening and know you're getting lots of love today. Robyn, your story is fascinating. And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the podcast, but even more so is your mid-career moment. Would you share that with us, please?

Robyn Hatcher 4:05

Yeah, my mid-career moment came like late for me. I mean, there's so many. And the the funny thing is, when you say mid-career moments, it's sort of like mid in what career, because I've had so many. And so my biggest mid-career moment, I think, was when I realized that all my little mid-career moments mesh together to become a career. You know, it's like um I was an actor, I was a soap opera writer, I was a mom, I was a coach and trainer, and then I became a public speaker. So putting those all together and following those breadcrumbs, as you will, and then having that one like V8 aha moment, it's like, oh my gosh, these all connect. These all connect to who I am today. Yeah.

John Neral 4:59

When you think about how the breadcrumbs all came together and you think about how you've you've built the pieces of your career together, how did you get to be a soap opera writer?

Robyn Hatcher 5:12

Well, um, I okay, this is another one of those things. I was an actor. So in acting class one day, my acting teacher said I don't even remember how he said it's like, well, oh, because I wrote a monologue for myself because it was, I was having trouble. You know, you're an African-American woman. There are not a lot of plays that are just really have your personality in it. And so I wrote myself a monologue. And so I did that monologue in acting class. And my acting teacher said, Okay, that's interesting, but you know what? You might want to write a whole play about that because then you'd have more information about it. So I said, okay, and this is an acting teacher that I liked really a lot and trusted. So I said, okay, so I sat down and wrote a play about it. And so that play went on to be produced by a couple of uh small companies in New York and um landed on the desk of a writing agent who started representing me. And when ABC Television was looking for soap opera writers, um, they submitted me, and that's how I became a soap opera writer.

John Neral 6:25

I love how those pieces just come together because as you know, we talk so much

From Acting To Writing Daytime Drama

John Neral 6:30

about how we build our network and how we show up in the right places. That's such a great example of that.

Robyn Hatcher 6:36

Yeah.

John Neral 6:37

So, Robyn, one of the ways you and I had connected was when we had talked a month or so ago, and you shared with me a little bit more about the importance of a show Bible. So, for our listeners who may not be familiar, give us the quick 30, 45 second, if you will, overview of what a show Bible is.

Robyn Hatcher 7:02

Yeah, it's fascinating how um the show Bible concept is so resonant with a lot of people. And the show Bible, when I went to go write for soap operas, you know, you've got all these people. There are large writing teams or two different writing teams. And so everybody has to be essentially on the same page. So what the network does is they create a show Bible, which is the history of everything that's ever happened on the show and the backstory of all of the characters who are currently on the main characters who are currently on the show. So that is how you learn about the show and who's in it, who's on it, what's happened in the past, and all of that. And so now in the work that I do, I believe that all of companies, your company has a show Bible. And that show Bible sometimes shows up, you know, with all those expensive things that they put on the website. Um you're making statement. You know, they pay somebody to write them and they sound really great. And that's kind of what the in the show Bible, but there's more that doesn't get into that on the website, and that is part of your show Bible, you know, the the history of all the leaders and how they came up and what they like, what they don't like, who they who they gravitate to, what gets rewarded, what gets tolerated in the workplace? All of those things show up in the show Bibles of your company. And unfortunately, most people don't study them before they start working there.

John Neral 8:31

Right. So that leads me to my next question, which is for a new writer that would come onto the team, how long would it take them to fully get acclimated with the show Bible so they could start writing storylines for the different soaps?

Robyn Hatcher 8:47

Yeah, there is a lot of work. And and the the great thing about the way that soaps are set up, and most TV shows are set up, I think, um, is they take that into consideration. So that when you are, there's the the one team that sits in a room with outline writers. They call them breakdowns. So you've got the head writer and you've got the outline writer. So it was the onus on the new writer is to understand and study the show Bible. You have to watch the shows, you have to read the older scripts, like you get tons and tons of scripts to read and um understand the show Bible. But when you're sitting in the room creating the outline, you've got the head writer there and you've got the rest of the people there. So you're in that room for two days. Then you go home and you write the outline. And those are the outlines that go to the script writer. So for the newer script writers, it's not as much of an onus to know everything that's in the show Bible because what they're handed is an outline that the breakdown writers or the outline writers have already given. And ostensibly they know what's in the show Bible.

John Neral 9:52

So, Robyn, what I'm hearing you say is that on these particular writing teams, you actually look out for and take care of the newbies who are coming in to make sure you set them up for success.

Robyn Hatcher 10:08

That's a great way of looking at it.

John Neral 10:13

So now let's talk about the drama.

Robyn Hatcher 10:16

Great way of looking. I don't know if they look at it that way, but it's true.

The Show Bible Behind Company Culture

John Neral 10:20

Right. Okay. So in your work with organizations today, in helping them know their show Bible and honor their show Bible, one of the things that has come up particularly in my work when when new people when people start new jobs, but we've talked about onboarding before in the past, is you really get a sense of an organization's culture when you go through their onboarding process. And if at best you can even inquire about it in the interview process as well. Talk to us a little bit about how you help organizations honor their show Bible from an onboarding lens.

Robyn Hatcher 11:06

Yeah. You know what's really sad though, there are a lot of people that do horrible jobs at onboarding. You know, the thing is they think they're onboarding. And what they're doing is they're giving them the maybe the pamphlet that shows like when your day's off, or how do you, how do you apply for this? How do you apply for that? How do you do this? How do you do that? All that technical stuff that can be helpful, but they don't really onboard around what's actually in the show Bible. They don't say what is the culture? What are you, what are people afraid of? What is the what is the um what is the culture around feedback? How often do you get feedback? Do you ask for feedback? What are your one-on-ones actually like? Are they going to just be agenda-driven or is it really a time to communicate? How do you interact with other teams? Is it a siloed community? Are you allowed to ask a question from somebody who is on another team? All of those little things, all of those things, because in the soap writing, you needed to know those things so that you know what characters to put in the room together, when to put them in the room, and what room to put them in. And so in our organizations, if you're just, you know, checking boxes as to what's happening, that's not going to work. So what I really want people to do when I help them, like, unfortunately, I'm usually working with the individuals themselves who have not been onboarded properly. So it then becomes a question of, okay, let us retrofit. Let's look at what's happening so that we can dissect and decode what the culture norms might be. And then I help them communicate through those culture norms so that they can get what they need and get what they want out of their own onboarding system.

John Neral 13:05

How challenging is that work for someone who hasn't been onboarded properly and is now deep within an organization and wanting to be successful, but is also, for the lack of a better word, struggling.

Robyn Hatcher 13:21

Yeah. Yeah, it is really, really challenging because the other thing is they don't know the boundaries that they are supposed to stay within. And a lot of people will assume the worst. You know, they'll and I'm, you know, some of your um your your episodes are really great in putting the nail in the head. It's like, where do you challenge your leadership? What questions do you ask the leadership and not fear that there's going to be retribution or fear that that's not a fair question or a question that they're allowed to ask. And so I really try to give them the language and give them the insights in the way just like to say it without feeling like it's sounding aggressive or feeling like it's sounding, you know, bigger than you are, or like you have such a, oh, what do you think you are? How how dare you ask that question? So those are some of the fears that my clients and people go through. And so I try to shape the conversation so that it can go through without blowing up.

unknown 14:29

Yeah.

Onboarding Beyond Checklists

John Neral 14:32

For someone who's listening, who's having those kind of fears or reservations, but but knows there's a conversation that needs to be had, what's something you can offer them today from a communication standpoint that might help them show up a little more intentionally in those conversations?

Robyn Hatcher 14:51

Yeah, I love that. I have something, I have a framework and I call it the edit method, and it stands for examine the situation very clearly and objectively. So you want to, it's almost like you're pulling yourself back and you're looking down at the situation as though you are watching it on TV. And you're looking at that situation totally objectively. And then the D is decode the communication styles and the needs and the motivations of everybody in the scene. That's including yourself, you know, and that's where I really believe that people need to start observing the situation and the people in it so that they can start creating their own show Bible backstories around the people. So you decode as like, okay, this person, and and I also have my um way of decoding character types, what people need, what people do, all that, and my actor types or that something. So you decode it by their communication style, things that you've seen in the past, all of that. Then you identify your intention versus the impact that you want to have. And that's what the I stands for. Identify, okay, so the impact I want to have might be hmm, I want more information, or I want to know what my job title actually is or what my responsibility really is so that I can do a better job. That's the impact that I want. Now, the then identify the possible um intention. I mean, that's the intention that you want. So then you have to think about the impact around it. Am I going to, based on what I've decoded, am I going to upset that person if I ask directly? Am I going to then ask a little bit indirectly so that they're not upset? If I or and you can also upset somebody for not being direct. You know, if you have decoded the fact that this person, and this is what I call my superhero actor type, if this person is a superhero and you notice that their interactions are very cut and dry, very fast, very direct, very this driven, results driven. And you go in and you want an intent, your intention is to get something from them, but you start talking to them like, well, John, you know, how was your weekend? And, you know, and I just experienced the, oh, you know what? And and I saw this great teaching, they're gonna have no time for you. So if your intention, so that's why the decoding part is so important. Know who it is that you're talking to and know how they best want their information handed to them so that your intention matches the impact that you want it to have. And then the second the last T is for translate, and that's where we do all this, translate your intention into language that will land with that person. So you translate as like, so the example that I gave, instead of maybe saying, Yeah, I need this right now, if your boss is not one of those kind of people, then you might soften it up a little bit. If your boss is one of those really direct people, then you go to them and you translate it in direct language. So that's the edit method, and that's what um I really would share. And there's another model that I use, if I might. Sure. Yeah. And that is called the love method. And love is standing for you listen to what's happening, you say something that shows that you understand what is meant, you say something that validates what hasn't been said. Validation is not always agreement, but you validate their way of saying it, and then you express

The EDIT Method For Hard Talks

Robyn Hatcher 18:55

what it is that you need to express. So the love method can be used after you've done your edit. You know, you edit it, and then when you go to the T to translate, you use the love method to form the conversation.

unknown 19:09

Right.

John Neral 19:10

And in the love method, it's a U and not an O for understand. Right. Yes. So for anybody who's listening there, we're just gonna, yeah.

Robyn Hatcher 19:18

Yes, and I do know how to spell. I am a wrong one.

John Neral 19:25

Um I I love how you share, no pun intended. I love how you shared both of those, right? Because they're really, really great protocols or or models, if you will, for people to think about and and learn more and get in touch with you and learn more about how these particular things work.

Speaker 2 19:44

Yeah.

John Neral 19:44

Robyn, I'm thinking about the person who's listening right now and going. Yeah, that's all great, but that sounds like I have to have a conversation to ask someone their preferred method of communication. I don't know if I can do that. What happens then?

Robyn Hatcher 20:08

Okay, so there are two ways to learn, and I just wrote a post about this. I haven't posted it yet, and you talked about it in one of your episodes, really. Is you know, when you're watching a soap opera and the writers put all these little breadcrumbs in, you know, it's like you know before the characters know that something is not right. You know, what they do is like they'll somebody will say something behind another person's back, and you as a viewer have seen that, or they'll have the camera zoom in on somebody's sly smile or their intense look, and you are witness to it as an audience member. So sometimes it's not about asking what that person needs as a communication style, sometimes it's about being that observer and listening and paying attention to how it works for other people. And so that is a skill that can be developed. And I really encourage when I when I first um work with coaches, I give them my methods, I also give them my actor type profiles, you know, like what motivates somebody, what triggers somebody, what all of that, so that they can start to observe the people around them. And so then for the first week, I say your first week or so, it's like you don't have any conversations. You know, don't worry about a conversation right now. I want you to really pay close attention to the styles of the people around you, how they interact with you and how they interact with other people. And then you can get you can have that bird's eye view, like you're sitting back and watching all my children. It's like, ooh, ah, now I get it. I know it works, but a lot of times when you're in the Workplace, you're so stressed trying to like say the right thing or do the right thing that you don't take that time out to like really observe what's going on. What is the culture? What is the style? How can I decode that? So one that's one thing that I'd love to invite your listeners to do better at and do more of. Yeah. And then there is the conversation if they want.

John Neral 22:27

I remember being employed in an organization and working with a particular leader. And I and I asked them directly, I said, so when we need to have a conversation, how do you want me to have that with you?

Robyn Hatcher 22:38

Right.

John Neral 22:38

Do we ease into it? Is it direct? And they were like, nope, direct is absolutely the best. I'm very busy. Just come at me with it. It's totally okay. I said, great. And then I said to them, how will I know when you're unhappy with me? And there was this very awkward pause. And I just kind of held space with that because I was like, I'm not going to jump in. And they looked at me and they said, I've never been asked that before. And I said, Great, now's your chance to answer it. And they were that when they told me they were very upfront about being left out of the loop. Like if I had information and I didn't share it with them. And the answer to that question told me so much about how not it wasn't just about being included, it was about being informed.

Robyn Hatcher 23:32

Yes. That I love because that, you know, when I talk about the different actors, the styles and actor types, everybody has their biggest fear. And there is an actor type that their biggest fear is to being left out, not being left. You know, and so that's the thing. I love that direct question. And I feel like those are really important questions. And I always advocate for people to say, especially in the beginning, sometimes uh to ask some of those questions that you're talking about. It's like, yes, you observe, and then it's like, how do you best want to be communicated? Is also is like you said, a fantastic uh question. I also find that a lot of people are in higher positions are not self-aware enough to answer that question.

John Neral 24:22

Yeah.

Robyn Hatcher 24:23

You know, and unfortunately, if you're not self-aware enough to answer that question, you may get, as a person asking that question, you may get a response that is defensive, and then you're gonna feel hurt by it. Yeah. You know, so it's so it's very important to do that observation when you can first, so that you can say, like, if I ask that question, John's gonna be really open. He's like, see that he's self-aware and he's gonna be able to answer that question. This person, I'm not so sure. Let me just I'm gonna try the email, I'm gonna try this, I'm gonna try that.

John Neral 25:06

Yeah.

Robyn Hatcher 25:07

And I love like, how would you know when you're upset with me is a great question. And again, if they're not aware, they won't be able to answer it.

unknown 25:21

Yeah.

John Neral 25:21

That that self-awareness piece is vital. I so glad you called that out. Absolutely.

Robyn Hatcher 25:27

And and to your point, to that question, it actually probably forced that person to in that moment be self-aware. Yes. And most questions and most people don't invite people to do that. And so if you can find a way to invite someone to be self-aware without getting defensive, that's beautiful. And one of the ways that I think you could do is when you see somebody doing something that is helpful, point that out. You know, because so that's one way, you know. I love the way that you shared that information with me. That was really, really helpful to me. And the more you do that, you're creating a connection because people love to be acknowledged for things and love to feel like they're doing something well. And a lot of times we're taught that as leaders to do that through our direct reports, but direct reports can also do it with their leaders. You know, you know, I love that email that you sent me because it taught told me X, X, X, Y, and Z, and that's really helpful because that's one of the ways that I like to learn.

unknown 26:35

Yep.

John Neral 26:36

Yeah.

Robyn Hatcher 26:38

Does that answer your question?

Why Toxic Leadership Spreads

John Neral 26:40

It does. Absolutely. And it it leads me to this point, which is um, and and I'm I'm thinking about how exactly I want to phrase this to you because we hear so often that people will leave companies because they're quote unquote toxic. Or I have a supervisor who is not helpful, or they're aggressive, or they're punitive. And as we get, this is gonna sound weird, but as we get ready to close out 2026, right? Um, we're all dealing with a lot of drama. Why is it that some organizations leaders love living in the drama and creating it?

Robyn Hatcher 27:34

It's such a great question, John. And one of the things that because one of the Chinese statements that I hear and I love is that the fish rots from the head down. And so culture is created at the top, and then it starts bleeding down because it becomes like this habit. And to be honest, I've had like a 15 plus relationship, coaching, training, and uh leading with an organization that has an extremely toxic culture, and so every time I'm working with people within that culture, I have to remind them that it is a culture that's sort of this, you know, you're in this desert or this cesspool, and all of this toxicity is around you, and you can be the oasis within that desert. And your importance is to the people around you to be that oasis, because the oasis is where everybody wants to be and wants to go, and and people need it and it nourishes them. And even though you step out of that oasis and you're still in that desert heat with no water or like really scorched earth, you know you can come back to that oasis. And so that's the thing. But the why behind that is because I believe that toxicity gets rewarded in some way. And there is another um very interesting statistic about around the brain science of leadership, and one of it is that the more successful you are, the less empathetic you become. And so, and they they actually, you know, I have to find this study out, and and it was that that in brain skins, some of the neuro connectors were missing around the empathy connector in the brain, the more important they get. And so when you're looking at a leader who uses that type of importance and that type of lacking of empathy, then like the fish, it trickles down. It's like, oh, this is what a leader is, this is what leadership looks like. And in order for me to be a leader, I have to be like that. And it's amazing how long that persists in an organization, especially if it's an organization that doesn't over uh doesn't turn over that often at the top. And you learn it, and then what happens is you get re once you get there, you get resentful because other people trained like this. Why should I be empathetic? Other people were successful moving like this. Why why do I have to be the one that is nice? You know, it and it's and it's sad. And then the ones that really would buy into that empathy, they leave.

unknown 31:01

Yep.

John Neral 31:03

They do. You're right.

Robyn Hatcher 31:04

They leave. And then you've got the culture just bleeding the culture.

unknown 31:09

Yeah.

John Neral 31:11

That's why your work is so important.

Robyn Hatcher 31:13

Yeah.

John Neral 31:14

Yeah. You you'll you'll be uh sadly you'll be really, really busy, but you are definitely in demand and well needed.

Robyn Hatcher 31:20

I also the the unfortunate part is a lot of the leaders who want who should be hiring me don't realize that they need to be hiring.

John Neral 31:30

Correct.

unknown 31:30

Yeah.

Robyn Hatcher 31:31

You know, and that's that's a thing because they're up there.

Speaker 2 31:35

Yeah.

Robyn Hatcher 31:36

Loving their toxicity. And then there's another interesting thing about human nature is that, and we've seen this recently, and I also just did a post about that, is that that silent minority, you know, if when you're in a room, and I've had this with my clients who have moved up, when you're in a room with toxic leadership, you don't feel safe to voice the discontent. And just like we just learned with that target incident with the Halloween costume that was clearly racist, there were people in that room that knew it, but didn't feel safe to speak up. And so that's the biggest and the most direct answer to your question. There's so much drama because there aren't enough people with the courage to speak up without fearing for their survival.

John Neral 32:36

Right. Yeah, absolutely.

Mentors Who See What You Miss

John Neral 32:40

Absolutely. Robyn, you are a keynote speaker, an executive coach, a communication strategist, and extremely self-aware, right? So I'm I'm just curious if you wouldn't mind sharing with the listeners. Has there been a coach that has impacted you in some way? Are you currently working with a coach or a mentor in some way that you look at and go, this person helped shaped me in some way to help me build my business, build my brand, build my work as part of your mid-career GPS?

Robyn Hatcher 33:15

Wow, I work with a lot of mentors. And um that conversation just made me very sad. But you know, um, I work with a lot of mentors. So, and I love it, it's like one of my first mentors, and I this is so weird, was a a neighbor, and she wasn't even a mentor, and this is something that I want to share with your your men your listeners is when I was just an actress and my son was in preschool, there is a woman who wanted me to run for the PTA, the Parent Teachers Association. And I said no, because I'm just an actress. Now, this woman kept pestering me and saying, Yes, you can do this. I see something in you that the PTA needs. And I finally, to humor her, I said yes. I got on the board. Two years later, I was a PTA president and was able to actually, with the help of all of the people around me, completely change the culture of the PTA 180 degrees. We went from a we went from a like this hated entity because the parents saw bullying and and you know favoritism to a 15-person board, moved our auction that made maybe like $36,000 to Madison Square Garden, where we made six figures every year. And that taught me that we don't see in ourselves what other people see in us. And so that was the biggest lesson that I learned, and it carried with it carries with me all the time. And again, even getting into this business, somebody saw in me, you know, I was teaching presentation skills, and they said, Okay, I want to train you for leadership training. I think that you can work with the leaders in this organization. And that's the organization that I'm still in 17 years later. Wonderful. Um so coaches and people in and they may they may not even wear the hat of a coach. And right now I have several um speaking mentors that I work with, um, and masterminds and all of that. And you know, I have a spirit of spirituality that I do some self-reflection, which I think is really, really important. And and I was a spiritual leader for a long time until that got really wacky. But um, but really um making connections and networking and being and also being the one to pull out something that you see in somebody else. Because if that neighbor hadn't done that for me, I don't know what I would have been now. You know, that was a huge turning point. Because from being on the PDA, that's where I learned my organizational skills, my computer skills, all of that was learned through one person seeing something in me that I didn't see.

John Neral 36:40

Yeah. And that just brings us full circle to all those breadcrumbs you talked about at the beginning, right? The the experiences, the people, the guides, yeah, the insights that we all have that that bring us here in this moment. And I thank you so much for sharing that.

Robyn Hatcher 36:56

Yeah. And you won't have them. And sometimes, like I just invite you all to do a deep, deep look, you know, because and go back, go way back, go back to when you were eight years old. Because that's when I'm teaching uh when I'm when I do a workshop called Invisible to Invaluable. That's one of the questions I asked. What did you, what were you like, and what did you want to be when you were eight years old? Because that gives you such uh in insight into who you are now and why you value what you value

Brand Audit Advice And Final Takeaways

Speaker 1 37:30

now.

John Neral 37:34

Robyn, we're gonna start wrapping up here. But before we do, yeah, I know. Before we do, time flies, right? Before we do, what advice would you give the listeners today to help them build their mid-career GPS?

Robyn Hatcher 37:46

Mm-hmm. Know your value, research it as clearly and as deeply as possible, no matter how long it takes. Ask people, I asked people to do uh a brand audit. Send out an email, can be anonymous, a survey that says, When you think of me, what are the first three things that come to mind? And have them do that brand audit. Look at that brand audit and use it to form your next communication, your next. Um, I know you've talked about this, the way that you uh put your value into like even a spreadsheet, what you are accomplished, what your goal is, what you've accomplished that week, what you've accomplished next week. Use that brand audit to do that, and then speak your value and find and edit your message so that it lands.

John Neral 38:47

I love that. Thank you so very much, Robyn. If people want to connect with you, learn more about you, find where you are, hire you. I'm gonna turn the mic over to you. Please tell us all the great places where people can connect.

Robyn Hatcher 39:02

Well, you can find me on my website, which is RobynHatcher.com, which that's Robyn with a Y. Robynhatcher.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, which is my favorite place to play, and that is LinkedIn. Also Robyn Hatcher with the Y. And I, you know, I love talking about as your workplace turns is my keynote and my other keynote invisible to value invaluable and any communication challenge that you have, I would love to answer them and work with you on them because that's my jam. And um, I want everyone to be invaluable because you are. You are, Blanche, you are.

John Neral 39:45

You are, yes. Absolutely. Oh my goodness, Robyn, this has been an absolute delight. I'd love to have you back on the podcast at some point so we can continue this conversation. But thank you for being you and thank you for being such an incredible guest.

Robyn Hatcher 39:59

Thank you so much.

John Neral 40:01

All right. Well, my friends, look, we always end the episode with one particular takeaway. I got two. I got two. And um, the first is it's I want you to think about Robyn's edit method. Right? Talked about examining, decoding, identifying, and uh translating or transferring, Robyn. Translating. Translating. Okay, I couldn't read my handwriting on that one. Um, but it's those, it's these kind of strategies that that Robyn in particular, but when you listen to this podcast, we're all trying to give you little nuggets of things that you can learn about and take as you build Your Mid-Career GPS and grow who you are as a professional and who you are as a leader. Because we know so much in the leadership space. Yes, you're a strategist, you're a technical expert, you're a communicator and a visionary. You are also in charge of taking care of people and people within the organization. And you listen to this show because you're a big heart-sented leader who cares about people. So something like this edit method can really be valuable. Definitely check out Robyn's website. And the other thing is, I've said this time and time again, this is just an audio-only podcast. I don't do the video. You would have loved had you seen my face light up when Robyn talked about the fish rotting from the head and trickling on its way down. I can't tell you how vivid that was for me. But don't be the fish with a rotten head, right? Like be someone who is out there truly changing and doing good and eliminating as much drama as you can from your workplace. Be safe, be well. And until next time, remember this. You will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and how you show up matters. Make a great rest of your day. If you enjoyed this episode, don't keep it to yourself. Kindly share it with someone who needs it. And if you're tired of feeling stuck, overlooked, or underutilized in your career, go to my website, johnnarrell.com to get started. There you'll find free resources, ways to work with me, and details about the Show Up Leadership Lab, my signature membership for mid-career professionals who want to lead better, get noticed, and elevate their career. All the links are in the show notes. You can grab what you need right there. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. And if you're getting value from the show, take 30 seconds to leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, how you show up matters.