319: Do It Scared: Reinventing Your Career with Emmy-Winning Journalist Lindsey Mastis

What does it take to walk away from a successful career to build one that aligns with your passion and future? In this episode, Emmy-winning journalist Lindsey Mastis shares her journey of leaving a 20-year career in tv news, to create an independent reporting career focused on AI and emerging technology.

If you’ve ever wondered how to make a bold mid-career pivot, this conversation is packed with insights on courage, reinvention, and staying relevant in a rapidly changing world. Lindsey opens up about making her final contract decision, handling the emotional aftermath with family and colleagues, and redefining success around health, purpose, and learning.

You’ll also hear how Lindsey is navigating the intersection of journalism and AI—from using AI tools ethically to creating her new documentary-style project, “Is AI Ruining Music?”, featuring voices like Rosanne Cash, Jackson Browne, and DJCherishtheLuv. Together, we explore how to stay human in an increasingly digital world and why embracing discomfort can fuel your next chapter.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• How to make a confident decision to leave a familiar career path
• The emotional and professional realities of a mid-career reinvention
• What “doing it scared” looks like in practice
• How to balance well-being with professional ambition
• Why learning business skills is essential for career independence
• How to collaborate with AI tools while keeping your authentic voice
• Practical ways to experiment, fail forward, and iterate your next move
• The ethical questions shaping AI’s role in creative industries
• What “human-made” really means in an algorithmic world

Connect with Lindsey Mastis

LinkedIn | Substack | Website | YouTube 

Chapters

• 0:00 Why Leave A Beloved Career
• 2:24 Introducing Lindsay’s Journey And Work
• 4:48 The Contract Deadline Decision
• 6:40 Family Reactions And Inner Signals
• 9:19 Health, 2 A.M. Shifts, And Readiness
• 12:20 Skills Gaps And Building A Business
• 16:12 Learning In Public And Showing Failures
• 20:04 Using AI Without Losing Your Voice
• 24:00 Dive Into Tools: From Periscope To AI
• 28:00 Curiosity Projects And AI Demos
• 31:10 Is AI Ruining Music Mini-Doc
• 35:20 Fear, Jobs, And Human Craft
• 39:10 Ethics, Scammers, And Using AI For Good
• 42:40 Do It Scared: Pivot Advice
• 45:40 Where To Find Lindsay Online
• 47:20 Host’s Takeaways And Closing

Transcript

John Neral: 0:00

Leaving a job you love to pursue something else is not for the weak of heart. In fact, it takes tremendous courage and resilience to go after your next advancement opportunity. So I'm sure you can imagine how my curiosity was piqued. While watching our local ABC affiliate earlier this year, I was surprised and curious as to why my guest would leave her position in TV News to pursue a career reporting on AI and tech. See, I met today's guest in 2018 at a Wheel of Fortune contestant audition. Lindsey Mastis was covering the event for our local ABC affiliate, WJLA, and I introduced myself to her during the event and thanked her for her work as a journalist. Fast forward to a few months ago when I sent a connection request to Lindsey on LinkedIn, and here's what I wrote. Hi, Lindsey. We met a few years ago at a Wheel of Fortune event in Virginia, and I remember you from WJLA. Professionally, I'd like to connect and see if you would be interested in speaking about AI and mid-career on my podcast, The Mid-Career GPS. Sincerely, John. Within a few minutes, Lindsey responded, sent me a link to schedule an introductory call, and we connected. I have truly enjoyed hearing her career story and learning from her about what's happening in AI and tech and how it's impacting the way we work and live. And you'll hear that in today's interview. In this episode, you will hear Lindsey Mastis' powerful career story and what led her to step out of TV news to go out on her own. You'll hear her mindset and thought process about what it took to make that career change and why you should be curious about where AI is heading and what it means for us personally and professionally. Let's get started. If you're looking for help and support navigating your mid-career journey, I invite you to check out my website for several resources to help you get the career clarity you need to build your network and to crush your next interview. It's all there for you at johnner.com forward slash resources, or you can check the show notes for a link. One of the things I love about doing this podcast is talking to people who are not simply navigating their mid-career journey, but they're navigating it in bold and interesting ways. And today's guest has done it, and done it in the public spotlight and out in front for all to follow and learn. Lindsey Mastis is an award-winning journalist and an expert on AI and emerging technology. During her 20-year career in television news, she received four Emmy Awards and is a recipient of a regional Edward R. Murrow Award. She has covered everything from mass shootings to robots on Capitol Hill. And she just debuted a mini documentary-style news feature called, Is AI Ruining Music? featuring Roseanne Cash, Jackson Brown, DJ Cherish the Love, and a host of others. You can watch it on Lindsey's YouTube channel and also check the show notes for a link. This is a conversation that walks you through someone's decision to leave their job and go after something they truly want. And it is my pleasure to introduce you to Lindsey Mastis. Lindsey Mastis, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Mastis: 4:05

Thank you so much for having me. You're always a blast to talk with. So I'm so happy to be here.

John Neral: 4:10

We have a good time. It would be it would be fun if the if the listeners got to hear our pre-call and what happened before this interview and everything. But they're going to get this in the interview because we're absolutely going to have a great time. I shared a little bit in the intro how we had connected initially. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast is you are such a great example of making a huge pivot in mid-career to pursue what it is that you want to do. So would you please share with the listeners what was your mid-career moment?

Lindsey Mastis: 4:42

Sure. So what was really big, it happened a little bit earlier this year. I left TV News after 20 years to start my own company. And it's, I love that we call it a pivot. Some people are calling it walking away from it all. And that's been a very interesting experience. Uh, it's left a lot of people confused. But I I don't, I have moments of confusion, but for the most part, I'm pretty clear on what I'm trying to accomplish and where I'm going. Um, but yeah, it's it was uh it was one of those things where until I did it, I didn't know for sure that I would. And so this was almost as much of a surprise for me. I know it was a huge surprise for my colleagues because I didn't make the decision to leave until the very last moment. In TV News, we operate under contracts. So I was on the last day that I could make that decision. And I went into my news director, whom I adore, and I'm sitting there and I'm telling her as if it's a question. Like, uh, so I think I'm gonna go, like, you know, like stop me if I'm making a bad decision, you know. And so um, that was on a Friday, and I think that they made the announcement that I would be leaving on like a Monday or Tuesday. So my colleagues had no idea. Uh, it's it's hard to keep secrets in newsrooms to quote the original movie, the paper, not the new one that's coming out, but the original one. Uh, the quote is Henry, it's a newsroom, right? Like, of course, you know, you can't keep anything secret in a newsroom. But um, I remember one of my colleagues literally uh, you know, messaged me or said to me, you know, biggest kept secret of the year. And it's like I didn't mean for it to be. It's just that I hadn't made my final decision until basically game time.

John Neral: 6:40

What was it like processing not just your emotions, but your colleagues, family, friends' emotions of now that this move, if you will, was finally spoken and announced? What was that like for you?

Lindsey Mastis: 6:57

Some of it's a blur. I think probably the biggest was with my mom. So, and I don't remember when I started to think this way exactly. I I knew that I had done almost everything I could do in the position I was in. And in news, stories change all the time, but sometimes you find yourself reporting on the same stories year after year. You know, there's annual things that happen. And I love covering AI and tech because it was something new that I could learn. But I remember there being a point where I started kind of raised with my mom, I think that maybe I might want to try something different. And I remember her having some shock. I don't know that disappointment was the right word, but I think she was a little more concerned about me leaving TV news than I was about it. And my mom is one of the very few people I was having a conversation with about what I was planning to do. And um, I was kind of unconsciously planning for this. I and I didn't quite realize it, I think, until hindsight. But I started to tell my mom at one point, I need to, I need to feel what this, you know, I need to say it out loud and just feel what that sounds like. And so I would kind of try different scenarios on, you know, with my mom, like I'm going to do this, or I'm going to leave, or I'm going to try something different. I forgot what I exactly said, but just saying it out loud, I wanted to then, it wasn't just about saying it out loud. It was about how do I feel when I say it out loud? What's my internal reaction? Am I kind of smiling when I say it? Am I terrified? Am I crying? Am I angry? Am I, you know, and I found that when I said it, I had like a little bit of a smile on my face, just a little hint of excitement.

John Neral: 9:08

Can you share more with us about some of the things you found yourself doing or saying that indicated you were thinking more seriously about leaving your job in TB News?

Lindsey Mastis: 9:19

For the past six years, I've been waking up at two in the morning and driving to work and doing hours of live news, which I love. Um, but I also had these other projects going on. And out of everything that I did, I was loving AI and tech. And I was trying to find if there was like a pathway where I could be doing that more on a full-time basis and not having to wake up at two in the morning. And uh unfortunately, like, I mean, I could have probably stayed in that job forever, but forever at two in the morning, or another odd shift. And my body was really screaming at me that it couldn't do it anymore. You know, and now if I'm up at two in the morning, it's because I stayed up late or am going to catch a plane to a really cool place, you know. But for the most part, I needed to put my health first. Um, and I never make a decision based on one factor. So there were a lot of things, but that one was a very big one. And now that I've made this pivot, getting sleep is really important. And when I look back on this time, I realize that I was preparing myself, even though I didn't know it. I had been creating my own at-home studio, which didn't really set up a set off any alarm bells for me because I I love what I do so much that even when I'm on vacation, I do stand-ups, which is when the reporter's in front of the camera and like they didn't go anywhere, but pretty much every vacation we've been on, I've had some type of like idea in my head where I want to report on this. Um, but I started to like get all these materials at home. And then if you think about um, there was, I guess, like a study done or something, and and they said that like if you're talking to somebody, if you look down at your feet or their feet and your feet are like facing the door, one of you wants out of that conversation, right? It's like wherever your feet are pointing is kind of where you actually want to go. So if your feet are like facing the person you're talking to, you're really engaged in that conversation. If you take a glance down and their feet are not, you might be the only one engaged in that conversation. So I kind of look back and realize I was doing these things to kind of prepare myself. It's like my feet were almost like facing the door and I didn't know it.

unknown: 11:35

Yeah.

Lindsey Mastis: 11:35

And then when the time came, I made a game day decision.

John Neral: 11:42

So many times on this podcast, I'll talk about or my guests will come on and talk about that there's this moment of clarity that they have in terms of making their decision. And when people go through a career change or pivot, if you will, especially if they're if they're moving away from something that they've known for 20 years like yourself, that clarity piece often takes many different shapes, especially as you move through, if you will, the next or the first year after making that move. Given that you made your announcement in in January and you've we're almost at the end of 2025. It's kind of scary to say because we're going to be at the middle to end of October when this drops. What would you say are some of the things that you have learned about navigating this career transition that has surprised you in some ways?

Lindsey Mastis: 12:38

Oh, a lot of it has surprised me. I wasn't as prepared as I thought I was. I thought that I had all the skill set I needed for the next chapter. I thought that I had a roadmap. I thought that my first business plan was, you know, all I had to worry about. I think I've written four at this point. Um, you know, because I just kind of shift and change as I go along. But what I realized is that I had some additional skill set to learn. You know, in television news, uh, especially on the side where you're the one on camera, you're thinking about the content and the stories. You're not thinking about the business of news. And here I am with my own company for the first time having to think about the business of news. Now, over the course of my career, I did get interested in the business of news and I asked a lot of questions, but there is a separation between the ad department and the news department, the marketing department and the news department. Like there's, you know, it's it's almost siloed a little bit by design. And that's so that editorial, you know, to have that editorial control. Like we maintain that control over the stories we plan to cover. We don't have advertisement involvement in that, you know, unless it's sponsored content. But journalists don't do sponsored content. So, you know, I it's just fascinating because I here I am thinking to myself, I've got it down, and then realized, oh, wait, I had asked questions, but until I was in this position, I didn't know I had to ask this or that. So I luckily have been able to go through two different training courses that have taught me some of the additional skill set that I need. And of course, I'm someone who loves to learn. So I have like a list that's a mile long on this is what else I need to learn. And I have to remind myself that that should be throughout my lifetime, not this week, right? You can only learn so much day by day. Um, so it's really been an interesting, an interesting year so far. I mean, the year's not over. And in my head, I'm already planning for 2026. But I also realize that at any moment, some amazing opportunity might pop up and I might say, oh, this is this works great with what I'm doing with my company. Let's, you know, let's make magic happen. Let's partner up, let's try this. So I'm very open to that as well. But it's, I gotta say, you know, what I what I thought it was going to be like this year is not what it was. And I think that because I went into this with some flexibility and some open-mindedness, it was fine. But I think if I had like a concrete plan that I wasn't willing to budge on, I don't know that I would feel the way I feel today. And I feel pretty good today.

John Neral: 15:33

Yeah. Well, having followed you for a while, especially following you this past year on social media and seeing you at events and at conferences and speaking and putting more content out there, it definitely seems that you come across with a lot of um competence and confidence in terms of what you're putting out there at the same time having this fervor for learning and being like, what else can I, what else can I share with everybody? What else can I pick up and share? So it's appreciated without question.

Lindsey Mastis: 16:08

Thank you. I love to bring people along for the ride. So anytime I'm learning like a new AI skill, for example, I'm sort of like you, right? I'm the I'm the viewer. And when you watch, you're coming along with me, right? We're doing this together. So I might be going through all the steps to learn a new skill, but really you're going through it with me, and you can learn just as much as I'm learning. And I think you can see too, sometimes in in what I put out, um, I show my mistakes, I show my failures. I crashed a Blackhawk helicopter simulation. I need to point out that it was a simulation multiple times in VR. And I thought I was gonna be good at it because I used to go up in one of our news chappers and actually handle the camera. So I thought I'd be pretty good at controls. I thought I'd be really great, great in that scenario. And I mean, I there was no way around it. I was like, you know, most of this piece is gonna be me crashing. How do I bring the viewers along so that they're still learning about what this technology can do while also not ignoring the blatant fact that I keep landing the thing on its side or, you know, and it was fascinating to me to kind of get to the point where after I was done shooting it and I'm sitting there and putting it together and I'm like, how much of this do I show? And I'm like, well, you know what? If I don't show how difficult some of this is, then I don't think that people who are kind of interested in AI but afraid to dive in, they may think, oh, I'll never be able to do that. Well, guess what? I'm not really able to do it either, but I'm figuring it out and we're and we are learning together and we're we're seeing success, you know, and I think that's really important to show. And when you talk about like a career pivot, it's really important too to let everyone know, you know, it's it's not like a straight line. It's not like, oh, I had a plan, I followed it, and at the end was success or a pot of gold. It's more like, oh, I didn't think of this before. Yeah, I think I want to do this. Or in some cases, it's like, I thought I wanted to do this, but I I'm not having fun when I try this out. Maybe I want to go in a different direction and just listening to myself, right? Like I don't, I don't really have a team the way I used to have a team to bounce these ideas off of, right? A lot of it's me. And Chat GPT has been really good at letting me bounce ideas off of it, but it's also like a cheerleader who's not gonna tell you if it's a bad idea. It's like, great idea, go for it. Like, uh, I don't, I kind of don't think this is a good idea, Chat GPT. Oh, you're right, you're right. It's like it's constantly telling me I'm right. So that part's a little bit hard. Um, especially with a 20-year background in TV news. I'm used to someone saying that's a dumb idea. I mean, they don't say it that way, but they mean it that way. And it comes across sometime where they're like, no, you're not doing a story on that. Are you crazy? You know, um, and sometimes you push the envelope, you're like, actually, you see the vision and you push through and you have to convince the people around you that this is a great story. So I am my biggest champion, and I also have the potential of being my own worst enemy if I don't give myself those checks and balances. So I found that really important uh while working solo.

John Neral: 19:34

I appreciate you sharing all of that because for the mid-career professional who's listening, it's so important for them to hear that they're our paths are not linear, right? They're gonna have detours and turns and things like that. And for many who are currently trying to find a new job in this market, they're leaning on some form of AI to help them, be it optimizing their resume, their LinkedIn, helping them with their interview prep, whatever it may be. And I'm so glad you brought up this notion, because I've seen it as well, where Chat GPT gets to be the biggest cheerleader and everything's great and wonderful and affirming, and you're like, well, I'm not really sure that might be the best way to handle this part of the resume or this part of the LinkedIn. Right. Um, for people who maybe do not have a strong knowledge of how AI works, or they're using it as a tool that for the sake of our conversation, let's say, is a little bit more sophisticated than a Google search. What could you what could you share with that mid-career job seeker right now who's dabbling a little bit in AI, but not really sure how they could be using it? What would you tell them?

Lindsey Mastis: 20:59

Sure. So there's going to be two things I really want to stress. The first thing has to do with letting AI do things for you. And when you're talking about trying to find a new job or career path, I think the last thing you want to do is let AI determine what that path is going to be and also to be your voice. You need to maintain your voice. And if anything, you need to find your voice again. I think that's really important. I mean, I was lucky in television news to um, you know, kind of have some of my personality shine through, but there were a lot of elements of my personality I had to hide because it didn't really fit into the mold of who people expected me to be on screen. So I also have to realize that who I am as my authentic self is what I need to bring to the table in this new chapter. So that's what I really want to stress and urge. It's so easy to go into a Chat GPT, into a Gemini, into a co-pilot, into any of those LLMs and say, do it for me, write my resume for me, write this cover letter for me, or what should I say? Right. We're used to taking direction. But when we're asking how we're going to be presented by someone who's not us, anyone but us, we're not coming through as our authentic selves. So I would say it's so important to utilize the technology as a proofreader, as something to maybe how I use it is uh I'll bounce ideas off of it. I'll say, I've got two ideas. I was planning to put either this in my resume or that in my resume. Should I stress this? Should I stress that? I mean, 20 years of uh of television news and all the places I've lived and adventures and and tragedies and all kinds of things that I have uh covered throughout these two decades, it doesn't all fit. And what am I trying to convey, right? So, what part of myself do I want to include in this next chapter? And because I focus on AI and tech so much, a lot of the other news stories that I'm really proud of and that are very impressive, they don't really fit into this narrative. So when I use AI, it's just to kind of help me edit a little bit more or to make sure I'm being true to myself of, hey, I'm kind of thinking of not mentioning this. Um, and it'll say, actually, you probably should, right? That's you. And you want to find this. If you're doing a pivot, you want to find the reason you're doing the pivot, right? You have to be honest about that. Why are you pivoting, right? It's because you're ready to be more of yourself. You know, I mean, I know in some cases people are trying to chase a bit of a paycheck, things like that, but that'll come if you're being authentic to yourself. The second thing I would say about AI is dive into the tools. Do you remember that app called Periscope?

John Neral: 23:57

Yes.

Lindsey Mastis: 23:58

Okay. I I loved Periscope. And I was just at an event um this week, and uh pretty much no one knew what I was talking about. So I only take a moment to mention what Periscope was. It was an app that did live streaming video to be you know in the simplest form, live streaming vertical video, which we take for granted now, but it was very new at the time. We weren't seeing, you know, people doing Facebook Lives, we didn't have TikTok, we didn't have Insta Live. Um, Instagram was still pretty much just pictures at that point. And we didn't have, I don't know, I don't even know that we had reels and shorts and all that kind of stuff at that point. But with a click of a button, I could be live. And uh yeah, I'm on TV, I go live all the time, but this was without commercial breaks. This was unstructured that this could be for hours and hours at a time. People were going live and showing themselves sleep all night. I saw people, I mean, they didn't show anything, they were outside the shower curtain, but they were taking showers while live, you know, just racking up as many likes and hearts as they possibly could, because that's how you interacted with it. And you people could comment on it and you could answer their questions. The first time I used it, I showed off my refrigerator. That's what you did on the app. You're like, show us your refrigerator. I don't know if that was supposed to be something else, you know, some other kind of context to that, but people just were showing off their refrigerators at the time. I hopped on this the first week it came out. And the very first time I looked at it, I didn't, and I know you're gonna laugh, but like I didn't know if the person who was live streaming could see me.

unknown: 25:42

Okay.

Lindsey Mastis: 25:44

You know, like it back when television first came out, in some cases, people thought that they could be seen through the TV. I had that moment with Periscope. I've soon realized they couldn't see me, right? Like I was making sure I was not taking my phone in the bathroom with me or anything like that when I was using this app. But basically, I um started to use it to show behind the scenes. I started to use it while I played my piano. I started to use it just all the time. And even though I was on air, I got so much better at my craft. Right. I I all of a sudden was much better on air and it started to open doors for me. So a lot of the positions that I've had in the last 10 years of my career were new positions that did not exist before. Um, I was able to in several in a couple of newsrooms, uh, train newsrooms on touchscreen technology, right? I became the go-to person for tech. Um, even before they were, I was allowed to do it on air behind the scenes. I was always that tech person. And even before that, I was the social media person. So the reason I'm bringing this up is because we're kind of seeing this with AI. For people who are willing to dive in, and you don't have to dive in deep. You can just kind of surface level learn how these tools work and try some of them out. And then when you find the thing that like that's your thing, then you can dive in deep to that one thing. For some people, it's machine learning, other people, it's prompting, other people fall in love with uh robotics or other people say, hey, I just like using this for my creative projects. But until you can gain like a skill set uh with it, um then it's it's kind of hard to compete or to to create a position that maybe didn't exist before if you don't try something new yourself.

unknown: 27:41

Yeah.

Lindsey Mastis: 27:41

So I always tell people like, you know, I dove in. Were there risks? Yeah. Oh my gosh, yes. I'm live streaming behind the scenes. Any number of things could have gone wrong that could have resulted in me not being allowed on air anymore. Right. And I was not the most popular person on air when I would do my live streaming behind the scenes because a lot of the uh, you know, production, producer, you know, just to kind of depended on the personality of the people that were putting the show together behind the scenes. You know, sometimes they were not as appreciative of the live streaming aspect. And I remember a very lengthy conversation with a producer um years and years and years ago, who was really not on board with it. And it sucked so much energy out of me trying to defend the technology. Um, all of that played into my decision to make this pivot. You know, I think right now so many more people are open to learning tech and tools, and but there's still a lot of resistance to it. And I really want to put myself into positions where I'm around people who want to figure out how to use it to better humanity versus people who are gonna try to pretend like it doesn't exist because it does. Yeah, it does, and it's I'm Greek, right? So we can talk about this in terms of Pandora's box. You cannot put it back in the box. You can't, yeah. And so um, I think the best way to approach it is to figure out how to make sure that it's being used in a positive way so that every day I go into it as what can we do to either protect people or um to inspire someone to use it in a way that is going to make a positive impact on humanity. And I know it's a big idea, but that's what I think about. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

John Neral: 29:41

Yeah, and what I what I love about what you just shared, and I and I hope the people listening are will lean into this as well, it's that you found a way to be different. You found a way to take something that interests you and run with it. And and run with it within all the parameters. And the safety and the guidelines as best as possible. But it was about how does this make this experience different? How do I learn from it? It's that, it's that learner part of you you talked to us earlier about where that natural curiosity comes into play to see, what do I get to do with this? Yes. So when you look at, when you look at your your career right now and specifically focusing on AI and tech, what are some of the things that are lighting you up in terms of your curiosity and your learning around AI that you want to share with us today?

Lindsey Mastis: 30:36

Sure. So I I love things that I can see, right? I've I kind of my language is video. So I love things that I can demonstrate and show, show people. And the what I notice is sometimes you have to kind of do something that's an attention getter in order to open that door to learning more about the technology. So one of the things I did recently was turn myself into a robot using something called nano banana, which, you know, and it wasn't just this one AI program. It was like nano banana with VO3 with 11 laps. Like so, I'm so in just doing that one video, I am improving my skill set in three different AI uh areas, uh, you know, the the audio area, the video area, the prompting area. Um, so for me that was really fun and intriguing. Um, I've also did a I also did a video um where I turned myself into like an AI anchor using VO3. I'm sorry, VO3. I always want to say VO because I was trying to learn Spanish for so long. And every time I see that word, my Spanish comes out. VO3, which is a Google product. And um yeah, it was just so interesting to me to kind of see, I like I fed it a picture of myself, and in some cases it looked like me, and in some cases it didn't. And and it's such a mystery sometimes as to why one prompt works great and the next prompt is a dud, right? So it's it's like trial and error. So I I love putting those kinds of stories together, but then I just did a piece of work that I'm so proud of. It's called, is AI Ruining Music? And it was not something I had planned on putting together in this way. I went to the largest music conference in the United States earlier earlier this year. I spent three days. Uh, the conference is called NAM, which is focused on music merchants out in LA or Anaheim area. And I was able to interview Roseanne Cash and Jackson Brown and DJ Cherish the Love, who's a friend of mine, and um Kim Bullard, who's the keyboardist for the Elton John band, and a lot of other people, as well as companies. And what was so interesting is when I walked into this, into this convention hall, I didn't see the words AI anywhere. And I just gotten back from CES, the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas, like a week and a half before. And so there, AI is everywhere. Like they're putting AI in like washing machines, you know, like it's everywhere. And I was like, well, why? What would happen? Like, what's going on? How come I don't see it being used in these music companies? I'm asking them, you know, are you including this in your design? Are you? I think I even gave a few people some ideas. I'm like, had you thought about using it this way? Oh no, that's a good idea, right? So very fascinating, but it's a bad word in the music industry. Yeah, right, because right now we're seeing AI that can generate a song in a matter of seconds. I write music, I love writing music. Um, I've written over 250 songs, and yeah, it it's hard for me to, you know, feel good about knowing that AI can do something in a matter of seconds that not just takes me longer, but I pour my whole self into all my emotions. I borrow emotions, right? Being in TV news for so long, sometimes things impact you. And the emotions you feel are based on someone else's tragedy and songwriting has always been how I've kind of worked through that. So it, I just became really intrigued. And I ended up, um, I was just gonna do like a little segment on like, is AI ruining music? And I started asking people this question right away. And when I got done with everything and I went to, I started putting together like smaller pieces where I was just gonna highlight technology. And I'm like, you know, this is just not having the impact that I was hoping it would have. And I just sat down, I'm like, I think I'm gonna make this into like a documentary style news feature. So it's still like my news that I do, my independent journalism, but let's make this coming from a different angle, more ethical, like ethics discussion type of angle. And I learned a lot from doing it. And I just put it out of like a little over a week ago, had great reception. And I just feel so proud about it because um, I mean, think about the definition of a journalist, right? Journaling, journalist, you you kind of snapshot a moment of time. And this is something that we can always go back and look at and say, okay, well, how are things today? Like 10 years from now, we can look back at this and see what people's concerns were. Did that come to fruition or what happened? And um, and also to be thinking about these big ideas as we move forward. Because a lot of like your audience is thinking of pivoting, right? There's a lot of creative people who haven't been able to do their music or their art or their writing because a normal job that we're told we're supposed to be in might have taken up all that time and bandwidth. So as we kind of go into this new chapter, how do we want to present ourselves in the world? Are we going to be going back to that creative part of ourselves? And if so, does AI allow us to be successful or has it replaced something that we wished we would have done earlier?

John Neral: 36:14

That's such a great point because for that mid-career professional, they're they're hearing the term AI, and it's either bringing up a sense of excitement or it's bringing up a tremendous amount of resentment.

Lindsey Mastis: 36:30

And fear.

John Neral: 36:31

And fear, absolutely. Is it gonna take away my job? Am I gonna be replaced? How am I gonna provide if I no longer have a job or what do I do and how do I stay relevant and all of these things? And to your point, it's already out of the box. We can't put it back in. So now what do we do with it? And and how do we learn to live and work with it in a way that that is going to be, to your point earlier, reflective of our true authentic selves and how we show up day in and day out to do the work we're meant to do.

Lindsey Mastis: 37:05

But those that are not trying it at all, I think once you start to dive in, you'll realize that I don't believe it's really a replacement for us, especially at this stage. I would love it if it could edit video for me. I can do it faster and better. I've tried different AI video editing programs and I appreciate some of what they can do, but it does not always make my job easier. Um and at the end of the day, you know, when it came down to the um that mini-style documentary feature that I I edited that all on my own. And I really didn't use AI for editing. I knew what I wanted and I knew how to make it happen. And I don't think that AI would have been able to do it at this stage. Um, so there's room for humans. I think some of these companies that we're seeing that are trying to replace people with AI, the jobs are just gonna shift. You still need a lot of human intellect. Um and and human, you know, that so if you're if you're talking about a mid-career pivot, you're bringing a lot of experience to the table. And even though AI can try to replicate it, it's not the same. Right. I the more I interact with AI, as much as I'm dazzled and I appreciate it and I I think it's great, the more I realize sometimes I just need a human to help me through.

John Neral: 38:49

Yeah, I have a dear, dear friend and coach colleague of mine who will always say that AI is wonderful, but it will not give you the aha, that we need a human for the aha.

Lindsey Mastis: 39:00

Well, and it just depends on what it is, right? Because it can also, I can have an emotional response from AI. For sure. Yeah, definitely. It can help me through some tough moments. You and I have talked about this, uh, grief, for example. Um, but and I am impressed sometimes when it comes to customer service. Sometimes it actually figures out my problem very well. But even today, I got on the phone and the AI is telling me it can do a better job. Like that, you know, voice recording, like, I'm gonna do just as good of a job as a human. I'm like, no, I know in this case you're not. I've I've interacted with AI on a customer service level enough to know that in this case, I need a human. Yeah. And I got a human, and I was very happy to get that human. But I also realized that in the future there might be an opportunity for AI to have answered the question that I had. It's just not there yet. So it's another reason to learn the tools, learn what it's lacking, and stay ahead of it. You know, we we've we haven't lived in a world where you could, you know, do one thing your whole life for a very long time. And maybe that was a fallacy. Maybe we look back and we think that's what happened, but I bet there were changes along the way. Even when we talk about the industrial age and assembly line work, I mean, there would have been a change as different technologies came along, or hey, we're gonna, you know, this machine can do this now. Okay, well, we're gonna shift people over here and do this, and this is a little more complicated that the machine can't do. Or this is really complicated and dangerous for a human. So we need to come up with a machine so that we're not putting humans at risk. So there's there's gonna be ways to kind of maneuver around all of this. But if there's something you love to do, don't let AI take that from you, right? I love writing music. I don't care that an AI can do it for me because this is what I love to do. And you know what? It's going to be used in marketing at some point of human-made, just like handmade, right? We we're willing to a lot of times, like, yeah, you can go to the store and buy something that you, you've no idea if it's handmade or machine made or whatever. But when you get something that's handmade, you have a different emotional experience with that item. So if there's something you love to do and you want to do it in a human way, then you can keep that up, right? But don't don't just say I'm not gonna use the tools because we can't, we I mean, I'd love to live in a bubble bubble. I try to live in a bubble, but I I don't live in a bubble.

John Neral: 41:41

Sometimes bubbles are nice.

Lindsey Mastis: 41:43

Bubbles can be great. Bubble bath.

John Neral: 41:45

Exactly.

Lindsey Mastis: 41:46

Glinda the good witch comes down in a bubble, saves the day. Um, you know, there's all kinds of amazing bubbles. Um, we can try to live in our bubble for as long as we possibly can, but um but you might find that you love it. And something else I talk about, people who are afraid of it, it's usually because they're highly ethical people. And that's who we need to be using AI tools. We have enough people without ethics who are willing to dive in. We have um, unfortunately, we have a lot of scammers that are willing to use AI tools in horrible ways. We need more people who understand these tools so that we can use AI to fight AI, though, so that we can use it for good. Um, we need to make sure that the people that are using AI are outnumbering the people that are using AI for bad.

John Neral: 42:35

Yeah, true. So, yeah, very, very well said. And and so much for us to kind of think about and comprehend in terms of where our relationship is with AI and what that means for us moving forward and how we use it in day-to-day, how we use it in work, but also to your point, we we use it for good, right? We use it, we use it for good in things that we do. You and I could keep talking and and and I I appreciate that so much about this, but I do want to just kind of wrap us up here a little bit. So, for the people who are listening who are thinking about AI and their career, what advice would you give them to help them build their mid-career GPS?

Lindsey Mastis: 43:22

Do it scared. I wish I knew who said that quote, but I think that's what you have to do. You know, I mean, there are so many things that cause us fear. Technology can be overwhelming. Just thinking about a career pivot can be it could be so overwhelming that you can't move. But you have to do it scared. Do it anyway. So I keep I kept this quote on my desktop for probably the first six months, and then I needed to clear off my desktop. But um, this is a quote from Georgia O'Keefe. It says, I've been absolutely terrified every moment of my life, and I've never let it keep me from doing a single thing that I wanted to do. So do it scared. Do it scared. Yeah, you know, you don't have to feel ready. I didn't feel ready. I definitely didn't feel ready. I woke up three days after like three work, you know, work days. So I guess it was five days um into my new life. Woke up 3 a.m., sat up straight in bed, gasped, and said, What have I done? Yeah and I knew that moment was going to come. I just did not expect it to come like three days into it. And after that, I had to just do things scared. And since then, I've also done things while feeling excited, while feeling optimistic, while feeling, you know, so many different emotions. But I can't let the fear keep me from walking out my door and doing something that I do want to do.

unknown: 45:00

Yeah.

John Neral: 45:01

Yeah. And that's that's the power of showing up in the way that you do, is to identify who are the people you want to help, what do you want to help them do specifically, and why is that work important to you? And that's such a great component of building that mid-career GPS for you and for everybody who's listening, is to find that destination to where you want to be. And in referencing that quote from Georgia O'Keeffe, do it scared. Yes. Yeah. Lindsey Mastis, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your story, your expertise with us. The listeners want to find you, follow you, connect with you, learn more about all the things you're putting out regarding AI and tech. I'm going to turn the mic over to you. Please tell us all the great places where people can find you.

Lindsey Mastis: 45:49

Sure. I'm the only Lindsey Mastis in the world, or at least I should be.

John Neral: 45:54

I would agree.

Lindsey Mastis: 45:55

There should be no impostures. Um, but there's two places to find me. I put all of my video work on YouTube. So just look up Lindsey Mastis on YouTube. I've got all my AI videos up there. And then I love to write and I do a lot of behind the scenes content on my Substack. So again, just look up Lindsey Mastis on Substack. Those are the two best places to go. I'm everywhere, but that's where I'm really putting my time and attention. And I would love to connect with you as well. You know, subscribe to both. There's always an opportunity to leave messages, to chat. Um, I have a chat at the bottom of a lot of my Substacks. Um, same with like leaving a comment on YouTube. Um, I read those and um I'm always appreciative of seeing where people are and seeing what they're getting out of it because it's motivation for me to keep going and keep providing this information to everyone.

unknown: 46:52

Yeah.

John Neral: 46:53

I will make sure your YouTube and Substack are in the show notes so people can connect as well. But Lindsey Mastis, thank you again for being such a wonderful guest on the Mid Career GPS podcast.

Lindsey Mastis: 47:05

And thank you for having me. And I love talking to you. Um so we got to do it again. We have to do this again, absolutely.

John Neral: 47:13

Absolutely. Well, my friends, if there's one big takeaway from my conversation with Lindsey, it's this. As you're looking at AI, you're using an AI. Lindsey's point about finding your voice and maintaining your voice and using the tool as you get to explore it is what's most important right now, right? AI is a tool. We learn to use tools in our work, in our lives, but do not let it take away from your authentic voice because that is how you show up in the world. So until next time, my friends, remember this. You will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and how you show up matters. Make it a great rest of your day. Thank you for listening to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. Make sure to follow on your favorite listening platform. And if you have a moment, I'd love to hear your comments on Apple Podcasts. Visit johnnarrell.com for more information about how I can help you build your Mid-Career GPS, or how I can help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and follow me on social at Johnnarrell Coaching. I look forward to being back with you next week. Until then, take care and remember, how we show up matters.