342: You Cannot Negotiate Your Worth but You Can Negotiate Your Value with Candyce Hunt

You are not underpaid because your worth is low. You are underpaid because of what you agreed to.

That distinction matters more than you think.

In this episode, I sit down with leadership strategist, TEDx speaker, and career coach Candyce Hunt to unpack a hard truth that too many mid-career professionals avoid. Your worth is infinite. It is not something an employer can define, measure, or pay. But your compensation is a negotiated agreement based on the value you demonstrate and articulate.

If you have ever felt stuck, overlooked, or underpaid despite doing great work, this conversation will challenge how you think about salary, visibility, and your role in shaping your career trajectory.

Candyce shares a pivotal moment in her own career when she accepted an $85,000 salary, only to later discover her predecessor earned $175,000 for the same role. What followed was not just frustration. It was a wake-up call about confidence, positioning, and the cost of staying silent.

We break down what keeps high-performing professionals stuck in underpaid roles, including the internal bargaining, the fear of speaking up, and the belief that working harder will eventually fix the problem. It will not.

What You Will Learn in This Episode:

• Why you cannot negotiate your worth but you must negotiate your value
• How underpaid offers happen and why accepting them creates long-term consequences
• The internal dialogue that keeps high performers quiet and stuck
• When leaving a role is the most strategic way to reset your compensation baseline
• How to build a facts-driven case for higher pay using documented results and outcomes
• Practical tools like PayScale, Salary.com, and Glassdoor to research compensation benchmarks
• How to audit your professional circle and stop taking advice from people who diminish your voice
• The shift from doer to strategist and how visibility drives career growth
• How to position yourself as a solution to real business problems, not just a task executor

Connect with Candyce Hunt

Website | LinkedIn | Podcast 

Watch her TEDx Talk: Get Off the Clearance Rank

Email: admin@5minutecareerhack.com

Transcript

Welcome And The Worth Question

John Neral 0:06

Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. I'm your host, John Neral. This is the show for mid-career professionals who feel stuck, undervalued, or unsure what's next, and know that doing more isn't the answer. Here we focus on how you show up, how you make clear decisions, build influence, and take control of your career. Let's get started. But here's the problem with that statement: you can't. See, your worth is infinite. And in today's episode, my guest and I talk about that and where it impacts your ability to advance your career and advance your compensation. In a few moments, you'll hear my conversation with consultant, speaker, and co-founder, Candyce Hunt. She's a TEDx speaker, leadership strategist, and career coach with nearly 20 years of experience leading multi-unit operations for billion-dollar brands that include Ross, Dollar General, WeWork, and Coles. She is the co-founder of the Five Minute Career Hack Podcast and the creator of Get Off the Clearance Rack and the Dominion Code Frameworks, equipping high performers and organizations to stop undervaluing their talent, communicate with clarity, and lead with purpose. If you are ready to show up with more value and impact, this episode is for you. So it is my pleasure to introduce you to Candyce Hunt. Hey there, Candyce Hunt. Welcome to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. So great to have you here today.

Candyce Hunt 1:48

Thank you for having me. I'm excited about today's conversation.

John Neral 1:51

I am. I appreciate how we got connected and everything. Your story is especially fascinating. I don't want to wait. So, what was your mid-career moment?

Candyce Hunt 2:03

Yes. You know, so that's one of the stories because my career moved so fast that my mid-career could be tomorrow. Um, but I can say that um there was a moment I didn't realize it was my mid-career moment until later, but I can now easily identify this was that pivotal moment that pretty much shaped how I moved in my career. And I shared, and I've been heard talking about this on several podcasts. It was like one of the most talked-about TikToks uh in five-minute career hack history. And it was the time that I accepted a salary for $85,000. And soon after that, I found out that my predecessor was making $175,000. And so I was born and raised in retail operations. And so I started out as an intern, and this is when I was accepting that district manager position. And it was kind of like the dream job. They would tell you like four years in between each position. I was like crushing it, doing it in two years or less. So it was like, mama, I made it. And then when they offered me this salary, uh, because I did not have the education, I didn't trust the relationships around me to ask more questions. I ended up saying yes to uh a salary that was well below my value and my worth for several different reasons, and we can talk about that as we go. Uh, but for years, the realization of that actually made me really upset. I was mad that the person offered that to me. I was mad at myself for accepting it. Uh, and I carried that around for far longer than I ever wanted or anticipated. And then once I realized, and that's where a lot of my work is rooted, uh, that in the uh get off the clearance rack, I realized that it wasn't their fault. And quite honestly, you know, I accept responsibility, it wasn't my fault. I was um misinformed about my truth. I uh did not believe that I deserved more. If I had, I would have asked for more. So I was believing that I needed to be grateful for what they were offering me because I'm just under 30 years old. I mean, you all are giving me $85,000. Nobody in my family has ever made this much. So this must be right, even though I felt bad about it in my gut. And so um, yeah, I didn't know I didn't believe in what the truth was about myself, and that caused me to not advocate for myself. And in turn, it led to being undervalued for majority of the rest of my career, probably for at least the next 10 years. So I'll cut the story off there because I know you probably want to dig in and ask specific questions, but that was that moment that I realized, like, hey, this has really influenced my full trajectory of my career. And let me kind of go back and remember that story and understand its intent so that I can move forward more positively.

John Neral 4:58

Well, first, I want to thank you just for being really vulnerable, vulnerable with us right off from the start because that's a tough story to tell. Yeah, it's embarrassing. Well, okay. So it was so now that you know on the other side, yeah, right. How did you maneuver those next few months or really how long ever you were in that role, knowing that essentially you were being paid less than half of what your predecessor was?

Candyce Hunt 5:27

Yeah. So, you know, there are several points. Um, again, I I realized it probably a few months later because someone told me. And so, of course, there's that initial sting, but then you start to bargain with yourself about um where you belong, and you start to negotiate with yourself of if I say something or if I get too loud, then I might lose my position. Nobody ever told me that, John. I made this stuff up of I might put myself at risk if I say something. So I didn't say anything right away. I just started to get on this train that I think most of us get on of trying to prove that we actually deserve more. So I spent a lot of time in that position of, well, let me prove to them that I deserve more. And then I had a few conversations with a mentor and who actually convinced me to have a conversation with my uh supervisor. But I, you know, long story short, that did not turn out well, mainly because I had already accepted the salary. So it wasn't a thing where I could turn around and have them reverse it. But of course, they gave me, hey, here's a few things that you could do to turn this, you know, to advocate for yourself at review time. And and honestly, while yes, I worked on those things, there were still some internal things that I needed to do to really understand what I was supposed to be paid. And so even as I was going through the role, and my I started to even notice and learn that the people who reported to me, they were really close to me in salary. So then it was like more realizations and to put a pin on a question, what I realized eventually was that it was going to take me to physically move out of that role and out of that company to even start to write size this. Um, and I'm not saying that was the only option, but in the situation that I was in, I was gonna need to elevate. That's one of the pillars of my truth formula. I was gonna need to physically move. I had to go to another company and renegotiate my worth somewhere else because I had already set a bar at this organization. So that's you know, that's kind of how it happened after I realized it.

John Neral 7:44

Well, and it's it's a good lesson for people to hear today, because, like you said, while that may not be the only option, it was the best option for you at the time because that bar was set so low. Because going back, as we know, and asking for a quote unquote adjustment, right? It's not easy. Right. It's just not easy. And then what I'm really curious about though is that as you got clearer about your value and your worth in the market, how were you able to change the way you showed up and in particular how you negotiated and interviewed for that next role so you would be paid what you are worth?

Candyce Hunt 8:33

Yes. And so, in full transparency, and I I like to tell this truth because it's always my hope that somebody sees themselves in these stories and wants to start to free themselves. But it took about three or four more roles before I truly got that confidence. And one of the things that um actually, can you repeat the question so I can make sure I answer you? Because I got I'm thinking I want to say something, but I want to make sure I'm addressing exactly what you said.

Build Confidence With Proof

John Neral 8:59

Yeah. So how did you get to that place where you could show up and interview and negotiate from a place where you felt you were being paid what you were worth?

Candyce Hunt 9:11

Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. So it took a while. It definitely took a while. Uh, I would say one of those pivotal moments was, you know, I told you that one of the reasons that I accepted that salary was because I did not have people around me that I trusted to say they're offering me $85,000. I had then I got to a place where one of my co-founders, Jamila at the five-minute career hack, she was a friend of mine. We were in the same role at the same company. So I started to trust her. And I by this time I was making $100,000. And I told her, like, I'm making, you know, I'm making $100. I know it's not that much. I know it's not enough. And she said, Well, wait a minute. We, we, we're doing the same role. I started off at $160,000. So how I got there was I started to surround myself with people who I trusted to say the truth out loud and who could be thought partners with me and point me in a direction to start to uh understand what I should be paid or what my worth was or what my performance looked like, all those things. So I started to get trusted mentors. I think the other thing is something that we do often in uh careers. I mean, once a year we're doing performance reviews and we're writing down and having to report out or be reported to on how we're doing in terms of our scorecards or whatever those KPIs are for that organization. And so I was accustomed to doing those, but I never I never sat back and said, well, because I achieved this, this is actually what makes it what makes it possible for me to advocate, is because I'm actually winning in my results. Right. And sometimes we're trying to find these emotional things to, well, I just deserve more money because I do. No, actually, I'm I'm top performer. So I should be making more money. Or over my career, I have achieved this. My education is this. I am most known for, you know, ABC, this result. Because of this, now I have a business case that I can now present and say, when you pay me this, this is what you get. Let's take the feelings out and let's just put the facts in. So it took going through cycles of that, not only being around people, but going through cycles of actually like actually understanding what the truth was about my performance that started to make it easier to advocate for myself. And so then I was going to different companies. It was about four roles later, where three or four roles later, where I felt the most comfortable. And it was mainly because I had proven to myself over and over again that I could do this. And so that started to build confidence. So I had proven that I could go to a role, I could take over new teams, I could perform. And then I'm like, well, you you need me now. Like I like I got this, I got receipts, I've got people writing me LinkedIn reviews, and that actually built that helped me build my confidence. So a combination of relationship truth and then the confidence-building process of proving to yourself what you can achieve. And so when you show up to that conversation, it's not me trying to convince you that you need me. I actually have proof, I have fruit, and I'm stating facts that says that this is what it should be. And then I learned how to communicate that win-win. You get this, you get results, you are gonna get this type of leader, and this is why you should make the investment in me.

John Neral 12:37

I like how you phrase that, right? Because it is, it is that that company's position to invest in talent and also for the talent to invest in the company as well. So one of the things that I often find comes up in in my work, especially when we start talking about what am I worth, is that ultimately at the end of the day, our worth is infinite. What we provide on so many levels is truly unmeasurable. But in the in the career space, it gets attached to a compensation package, right? Or a salary, right? It has to be tagged to something, right? And in that negotiation piece, the the talent, the job seeker, they're gonna get something, the company's gonna get something. Maybe something gets left off the table, but hopefully at the end, both parties are happy with what they're getting in that process. Yeah. You shared that you had a network of people whom you trusted that you could talk to about salary. For people who don't have a network they trust or they're unsure where to get that kind of data or information about how to position themselves in the market, where would you tell them to look?

Find Salary Data And Audit Trust

Candyce Hunt 14:07

Yes. Excellent question, excellent entry. I've been waiting for someone to even like put worth and value in the same sentence or talk about worth so I can put worth and value in the same sentence because you're exactly right. Your worth is infinite, your value is the number, right? Uh, so you cannot pay, you can't pay me my worth. Like if I I can go spiritual on you, or I could just go like I'm Candyce. You can't pay me my worth, but you can pay me the value. And there's tools that you can use uh if you don't have the network. So I'm gonna talk about the tool first, and then I'm gonna maybe give a couple tips on that network. But the tools, um, there's several different ones. There, I'm compelled to uh because I'm five-minute career hack, we uh love pay scale. We've done some work with PayScale. We actually have on our website there's a free PayScale tutorial. So there's PayScale and organizations and platforms like it, where you can go in and you can put in your experience, your education, a job that you're after, and it'll give you a number down to the cent and tell you what you should be advocating for in your market, in your industry, in your city, right? And so I would um challenge people to find that tool. I recommend PayScale. Five Minute Career Hack has tools on our website that links to PayScale. I would recommend them. Uh, but there's others like salary.com, Glassdoor, um, career builder. There's different organiz uh platforms that will show you that, but go go look it up. Um, I was actually even um helping someone with a salary the other day, and I mean Chat GPT is it's uh use responsibly, it's a great resource. It'll actually too, where you can get to the information much faster, point you to the resource and to those salaries. So, one, use your resources. You can go also to um the five-minute career hack podcast where there's um episodes that Jamila Brown has recorded on um how to find these specific things. So use your tools. Two, um, I think you brought up a good point around um me realizing that I had people that I could uh that I could trust. I was starting to develop that. And I think before I could get there, I had to really take a step back and evaluate everybody who was around me. Um, I always recommend uh The Compound Effect. Uh it's one of my favorite books, Darren Hardy. And he does the performance review on your relationships every year. He recommends that you do a performance review. And so, for the sake of this conversation, I would have us think about it this way. If you were doing your performance review and you were looking at the financial piece or even the trust piece, for for the people that you spend the most time around, if they came to you and asked you, what's your salary right now? Can you are you comfortable just telling them? Or is there something inside you that may be a shame to tell them? You're not comfortable telling them. Like if there's something that gives you angst and pause, you probably need to explore why you feel that way with that person and either break the barrier or it's time to change the squad a little bit. Um, so try to be nice about it, John. Sometimes they gotta go. They gotta go sometimes. Sometimes they gotta go. They don't even want to be there anyway, sometimes. So it's so true. So true. But yeah, so I hope so, yeah, definitely use the tools, the resources, uh, and then you know, evaluate your squad.

John Neral 17:58

Yeah. And I think that's such an important point about really getting clear about who you want close to you, right? Because it's it's so much more than salary, right? We have that work bestie. It's the person whom we we run to when we have a great day and also when we have a bad day. And if we don't have those kind of relationships, especially what we formulate at mid-career, it can get lonely.

How Leaders Hold Space On Pay

Candyce Hunt 18:28

Yeah.

John Neral 18:29

Because as we get older, you know, our our friendships, we don't have as many friendships as we used to, right? We have more quality type relationships as opposed to quantity type relationships we did when we were younger. Right. And so having those people who are close. I I remember leading a team at one point, and we were doing performance reviews and salary conversations. And I, you know, share the salary comp with someone on my team, and they look at me and they go, I'm not happy. And I said, I figured as such. Do you want to talk about it? And they looked at me and they went, I don't know where to begin the conversation. And I said, Well, there's two options here. I said, one, let's meet in 24, 48 hours. Think about what you want to bring back. Or two, I've got some questions I can ask. What would you prefer? And I just held space for them.

Candyce Hunt 19:32

Yeah.

John Neral 19:33

Right. I didn't try to make them feel better. This certainly was not going to be a conversation about being grateful for what you have.

Candyce Hunt 19:40

Yeah.

John Neral 19:40

Right. And so they said to me, I I'd rather come back in 48 hours. I said, Great, let's schedule that meeting. And so we did. And then when they came back in 48 hours, we were able to have a conversation about where they felt they were um inappropriately valued in the organization, and if there was a path to correct that. And so we had a conversation about here's what this might look like internally. Here's what this could look like externally. And we got done with that conversation and they looked at me and they said, I have never had a supervisor have this conversation with me. And I said, Thank you. Isn't it great that we can have this conversation?

Candyce Hunt 20:30

Yeah.

John Neral 20:31

You know, and it did, and it set them up for making some moves outside of the organization that honestly, I don't think had we had that conversation, it might not have happened in the way that it did.

Candyce Hunt 20:43

Yeah.

John Neral 20:43

But that's because we had trust.

Visibility That Gets You In Rooms

Candyce Hunt 20:46

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, leadership, trust, you know, I think what I've drew from what you said as well is you created space for someone to be genuine. Um, I use the term from you know my church, we say humble, open, and transparent. Uh, so they they felt like they could they could be, they were safe enough to be open and honest and humble about what they needed. And so you were still, even though you uh were empowering that person, you were still acting as an advocate for the organization. I have a team member who is not happy here, and it's it likely impacting their performance and the longevity of them being here with the organization, but at the same time, you challenge them uh to you know think about to be true, yeah. Right. And I think the reason I wanted to say that is because a lot of times the reason why we end up in these stuck places mid career is because we are performing. We're performing and we're trying to be what makes John happy as my boss, what I think the my family thinks that I should do in this role, or I'm trying to impress and please people. And we're not sitting in the space of what do I really want outside of my talent, outside of my tap my salary. Like what do I really want and how do I really feel? And how can I start to show up authentically in the workplace? So that's that's what I heard that you made space for was for that person to do what I call cut the act. Because they could have easily left that conversation and said, okay, I'm just gonna keep on pressing and keep faking it till I make it. You know what I mean? But you create a space to say, all right, let's get real so I can actually make the pivot in my career, whether it's internally or externally, that is going to help me build legacy, help me operate in truth, and ultimately get me to where I am, where I feel worthy and I'm being paid my value. Yeah.

John Neral 22:53

So let's talk about another V word. Let's talk about visibility. Oh, okay. Okay. So one of the things that that I've I've seen from you and have followed you with Five Minute Career Hack is you talk more about visibility and making sure that people are in the right rooms and at the right tables. For that mid-career professional who is struggling from going from being the tactician to the strategist, who wants to get out of that doer type role and be in more impactful conversations around strategy and vision. What would you say to them to help them increase their visibility when this could potentially be a really big step for them in their career?

Candyce Hunt 23:46

Yeah, that's uh that's a really good question. And I'm gonna give a a couple of what I feel are the biggest nuggets to starting to be in the right rooms. Uh, I think the one of the first things is having like evaluating where you are and really taking, like taking a look around and saying, am I in rooms or am I in places that elevate me or am I in places that are constantly uh it's costing me to be here in these rooms? Uh and there's a few costs that I like for people to think about. Is this room, is it costing me my voice where I'm shrinking because I'm in these places? Then I probably don't belong here. Am I in this place where my mental uh is it, you know, is it potentially toxic? Am I mentally drained because I'm in these places? That is this is this a cost that I'm carrying uh because I'm in this place? Um, is it costing me my legacy? Is my family, is my my future, the people who look to me, are they getting the best of me uh, you know, as a result of where I am? And then the other cost uh is money. So I'm always gonna bring, you know, is it is it costing me money to stay here? Am I am I not able to reach what I should salary rise or you know, get to my full salary trajectory because I'm staying in this place? And so I think if people can sit first and say, is this room or is this place shrinking my voice? Is it shrinking my legacy? Is it shrinking my mental capacity and my mental bandwidth? And is it shrinking my bank account? And if you can see where it's it's shrinking one of those things, then you start to say, Okay, well, what do I need to do to make a move? And there's to make a move or to get into the right rooms. There's a lot of different answers, John, to what getting into the right room looks like. But I'm gonna one that I can see as a common denominator across my journey, it was always connected to the people I was around. And I know I talked about that already, but it's so important. I don't even know what the right room looks like unless I'm being invited there by somebody who's in the right room, right? And so, and I think about um, you know, every position that I've elevated it to in my career, um, I wish I could tell you, I am a great performer, right? Like I'm my performance was great, like I'm gonna do well, I'm a high achiever. Um, but I was also because I built great relationships along the way, somebody always invited me to the next space, into the next room. And so if you uh if you're looking after you look around and see what the rooms may be costing you, am I surrounded, number two, with people who are in the rooms that I want to be in that I want to start to become more visible in? And that's where that relationship review comes in. All right, who am I around? Who am I around somebody who's already there? Am I around somebody who wants to go there? Um, is there somebody who I can bring with me? Right? Um, and so then when you get there, of course, you know, once you evaluate those couple of things, then you need to define like what visibility means to you. And so are you just showing up to be seen? Or is there an objective or something that you want to be known for that you can show up and um and make sure you're being that person? And so, you know, you ask the question around going from like the doer to the strategist, your goal becomes to make sure when you're showing up and be invisible that people see you as a solution to their problem. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. That's it. Right. Yeah. So when you're saying I'm going to this room, let me go to the rooms where one, I can learn, I can draw, I can, you know, get what I need, but also where I can go and I can present that I'm a solution to a common problem in this community. And of course, there's personal branding and things that we walk you through of how you can articulate that. But when you're showing up from being a doer to a strategist or to a consultant, which I think everybody's a consultant, you're presenting yourself as I can solve complex problems, I can lead critically think through problems, I am a self-leader, and my leadership is of value to you. Yeah. Uh, and then I think that's where the shift makes once you, you know, kind of follow that process.

Dominion Code Advice And Where To Connect

John Neral 28:33

Well, absolutely. I I I agree wholeheartedly because that that shift, especially when we're we're networking or we're interviewing, that goes from here's all the things that I've done to here's how I'm gonna solve your problems. Right. And that just changes the whole dynamic. And I I often say too, like, if we can just interject the word help, yeah, the brain triggers very differently when we hear the word help, right? So here's how I'm gonna help you solve your problem. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm gonna listen to this because I maybe I'll buy into this, right? And yes, and then we know we have a whole different, different conversation in in that regard and stuff. Um, Candyce, this conversation has been wonderful, and you're wonderful. And I thank you for having this with me. But we do have to start wrapping up, unfortunately. We don't have to do this all day. I know, same here. I could too. So we'll have to have you back on at some point. But um, what advice would you give someone to help them build their mid-career GPS? And this could be something you've already talked about or something you haven't had a chance to, but but leave us with that that one nugget about you know what what could you do to help someone build their mid-career GPS right now?

Candyce Hunt 29:47

Yes, absolutely. Um I have a formula that I call or a framework that I call the Dominion Code, and it is literally the acronym P-R-U-E. Uh, and so if I could give advice on what you could do to make the right pivot mid-career or to just thrive, not survive mid-career, is is operating your truth and the facts, the data, the information that you have of where you of where you belong, the information that you have of what you've achieved, so you can use that to make decisions about where you're going next. So operating your full truth, uh, not just your feelings would be my advice.

John Neral 30:37

Awesome. That's a nice way, nice way to wrap this up. So thank you. Candyce, if people want to find you, connect with you, learn more from you. I'll have it all in the show notes, but please share us where people can find. Please share with us where people can find you.

Candyce Hunt 30:50

Yeah, absolutely. The first the best way to get in contact with me is on LinkedIn. So you can follow me, Candyce Hunt, on LinkedIn. It's where I show up the most. You can also go to five minute careerhack.com. It gives you access to all of our resources, blogs, podcasts. Even if you want to sign up for coaching or book us for a workshop, you can find you can do it there. And then I'd say the third uh biggest platform is YouTube. We have a podcast on YouTube where we have almost 300 videos, um, of five-minute episodes to interviews like this one, where you can get um feedback. You can also get advice on how to pivot in your confidence, your career, and your compensation.

John Neral 31:31

Great. I will make sure all that is in the show notes. And for the people who are listening that do want to go to LinkedIn, please remember you spell Candyce's name with a Y. So it is C-A-N-D-Y-C-E Hunt is H-U-N-T. Candyce Hunt, thank you for being a wonderful guest on the Mid-Career GPS podcast.

Candyce Hunt 31:49

Thank you. And Siri calls it Cand Dice. So if that helps, it's just Cand Dice in the search box. Thank you, John, so much for having me. I look forward to collaborating with you more.

Worth Is Infinite Value Is Negotiated

John Neral 31:58

Same, absolutely. Well, my friends, I hope you enjoyed this episode. And I want to leave you with this little nugget. And so just a little peek behind the curtain. I sometimes write things down when I'm doing an interview. And uh, and I wrote this down in particular. And it's something that Candyce had said. I think it's so important for us to remember. Um, during our conversation today, we talked about how our worth is infinite. The value is the number. So never forget that your worth is infinite and your value is what you and the organization negotiate as an acceptable means to compensate you for the value you bring to that organization to help them solve their problems. So until next time, my friends, remember this. You will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and how you show up matters. Make it a great rest of your day. Thank you for listening to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. Make sure to follow on your favorite listening platform. And if you have a moment, I'd love to hear your comments on Apple Podcasts. Visit johnnarrell.com for more information about how I can help you build your mid-career GPS, or how I can help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and follow me on social at John Daryl Coaching. I look forward to being back with you next week. Until then, take care. And remember, how we show up matters.