{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":27.904,"endTime":29.514,"body":"What's up guys, happy Tuesday."},{"startTime":29.514,"endTime":32.634,"body":"Welcome back to another episode of Eat,"},{"startTime":29.514,"endTime":32.634,"body":"Train, Prosper."},{"startTime":32.634,"endTime":35.884,"body":"Today is Brian, myself, and we have Dr."},{"startTime":35.884,"endTime":36.384,"body":"Mike T."},{"startTime":36.384,"endTime":39.334,"body":"Nelson on the podcast with us for the"},{"startTime":36.384,"endTime":39.334,"body":"first time."},{"startTime":39.334,"endTime":43.314,"body":"Mike, can you please give the episode, or"},{"startTime":39.334,"endTime":43.314,"body":"can you please give the podcast listeners"},{"startTime":43.314,"endTime":45.818,"body":"a brief introduction to yourself, please?"},{"startTime":46.39,"endTime":47.45,"body":"Yeah, no problem."},{"startTime":47.45,"endTime":51.33,"body":"I consider myself probably a human"},{"startTime":47.45,"endTime":51.33,"body":"performance specialist."},{"startTime":51.33,"endTime":54.96,"body":"I did an undergrad and a bachelor of arts"},{"startTime":51.33,"endTime":54.96,"body":"in natural science, master's in mechanical"},{"startTime":54.96,"endTime":56.129999999999995,"body":"engineering."},{"startTime":56.35,"endTime":60.92,"body":"PhD was in exercise physiology, looking at"},{"startTime":56.35,"endTime":60.92,"body":"heart rate variability and metabolic"},{"startTime":60.92,"endTime":62.23,"body":"flexibility."},{"startTime":62.33,"endTime":65.81,"body":"And then right now I still coach clients"},{"startTime":62.33,"endTime":65.81,"body":"online."},{"startTime":65.81,"endTime":73.37,"body":"I think I started that in 2012, 13,"},{"startTime":65.81,"endTime":73.37,"body":"somewhere in there."},{"startTime":73.47,"endTime":76.054,"body":"I did the coach people in person."},{"startTime":76.054,"endTime":80.064,"body":"for a while at a gym till they filed"},{"startTime":76.054,"endTime":80.064,"body":"bankruptcy and thought maybe I should do"},{"startTime":80.064,"endTime":81.494,"body":"something different."},{"startTime":82.434,"endTime":87.334,"body":"And then right now I have the FlexDiet"},{"startTime":82.434,"endTime":87.334,"body":"certification, Physiologic Flexibility"},{"startTime":87.334,"endTime":88.714,"body":"Certification."},{"startTime":88.714,"endTime":93.524,"body":"And I teach for Rocky Mountain University,"},{"startTime":88.714,"endTime":93.524,"body":"Associate Professor at the Kerrig"},{"startTime":93.524,"endTime":94.394,"body":"Institute."},{"startTime":94.394,"endTime":97.534,"body":"And then I also help out the guys at Rapid"},{"startTime":94.394,"endTime":97.534,"body":"Health."},{"startTime":97.534,"endTime":100.184,"body":"And I'm a scientific advisor to Tecton."},{"startTime":100.184,"endTime":102.678,"body":"It creates a ketone ester."},{"startTime":105.602,"endTime":107.382,"body":"a lot going on there."},{"startTime":107.382,"endTime":115.432,"body":"So before we dive in, yeah, and this is"},{"startTime":107.382,"endTime":115.432,"body":"something you reminded me when, cause I've"},{"startTime":115.432,"endTime":118.382,"body":"been fortunate to meet Mike in person."},{"startTime":118.382,"endTime":121.502,"body":"And I remember this is a question I wanted"},{"startTime":118.382,"endTime":121.502,"body":"to ask you then."},{"startTime":121.502,"endTime":121.982,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":121.982,"endTime":127.032,"body":"What, as each of your, I can't remember"},{"startTime":121.982,"endTime":127.032,"body":"what you said your undergrad was in, but"},{"startTime":127.032,"endTime":130.252,"body":"then your master's was in, I believe you"},{"startTime":127.032,"endTime":130.252,"body":"said mechanical engineering, and then your"},{"startTime":130.252,"endTime":133.322,"body":"PhD is in like exercise phase, exercise"},{"startTime":130.252,"endTime":133.322,"body":"science."},{"startTime":133.322,"endTime":134.978,"body":"How, like,"},{"startTime":134.978,"endTime":138.128,"body":"take us back just a little bit to your"},{"startTime":134.978,"endTime":138.128,"body":"thought process or maybe it was just how"},{"startTime":138.128,"endTime":142.19799999999998,"body":"you were kind of evolving as a human and"},{"startTime":138.128,"endTime":142.19799999999998,"body":"your interest shifting to where your"},{"startTime":142.19799999999998,"endTime":145.75799999999998,"body":"different degrees are in kind of what we"},{"startTime":142.19799999999998,"endTime":145.75799999999998,"body":"might consider like pretty different"},{"startTime":145.75799999999998,"endTime":146.902,"body":"modalities."},{"startTime":146.902,"endTime":148.662,"body":"Yeah, very different."},{"startTime":149.762,"endTime":153.362,"body":"I didn't really have a big plan at that"},{"startTime":149.762,"endTime":153.362,"body":"point."},{"startTime":153.362,"endTime":155.412,"body":"I was like, well, I like physiology."},{"startTime":155.412,"endTime":156.262,"body":"This is cool."},{"startTime":156.262,"endTime":157.212,"body":"So my undergrad at St."},{"startTime":157.212,"endTime":161.032,"body":"Scholastica in Duluth, Minnesota, they"},{"startTime":157.212,"endTime":161.032,"body":"actually allowed anyone to sign up for"},{"startTime":161.032,"endTime":161.922,"body":"anatomy and physiology."},{"startTime":161.922,"endTime":164.462,"body":"And you got to use actual human cadavers."},{"startTime":164.462,"endTime":166.882,"body":"And they got new human cadavers like every"},{"startTime":164.462,"endTime":166.882,"body":"quarter."},{"startTime":166.902,"endTime":168.082,"body":"So that was pretty rare."},{"startTime":168.082,"endTime":171.232,"body":"So when I signed up there, I initially was"},{"startTime":168.082,"endTime":171.232,"body":"just doing a dual degree program, Bachelor"},{"startTime":171.232,"endTime":175.716,"body":"of Arts in Natural Science and a Bachelor"},{"startTime":171.232,"endTime":175.716,"body":"of Science in Mechanical Engineering."},{"startTime":176.15,"endTime":178.05,"body":"And as I started doing it, I'm like, well,"},{"startTime":176.15,"endTime":178.05,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":178.05,"endTime":181.19,"body":"I just take some physiology classes for"},{"startTime":178.05,"endTime":181.19,"body":"fun."},{"startTime":181.21,"endTime":185.2,"body":"Got to Michigan Tech and they said, Hey,"},{"startTime":181.21,"endTime":185.2,"body":"if you can do two years of postgraduate"},{"startTime":185.2,"endTime":187.39,"body":"work, then you can just go in and do a"},{"startTime":185.2,"endTime":187.39,"body":"master's."},{"startTime":187.39,"endTime":190.19,"body":"So I was at Michigan Tech for four and a"},{"startTime":187.39,"endTime":190.19,"body":"half years."},{"startTime":190.25,"endTime":192.08,"body":"You got done with that almost eight years"},{"startTime":190.25,"endTime":192.08,"body":"of school."},{"startTime":192.08,"endTime":194.51,"body":"And I'm like, I'm never going back to"},{"startTime":192.08,"endTime":194.51,"body":"school again."},{"startTime":194.51,"endTime":197.23,"body":"That was extremely difficult."},{"startTime":197.23,"endTime":197.81,"body":"Screw that."},{"startTime":197.81,"endTime":200.05,"body":"I'm going to go make money and work in the"},{"startTime":197.81,"endTime":200.05,"body":"industry for a while."},{"startTime":200.05,"endTime":201.986,"body":"So I worked in the biomed industry."},{"startTime":202.038,"endTime":205.628,"body":"And then they're like, Hey, you can take"},{"startTime":202.038,"endTime":205.628,"body":"classes and we'll pay for them."},{"startTime":205.628,"endTime":206.998,"body":"I'm like, Oh, really?"},{"startTime":206.998,"endTime":209.858,"body":"So I started taking more classes at the"},{"startTime":206.998,"endTime":209.858,"body":"university of Minnesota."},{"startTime":209.858,"endTime":217.788,"body":"And then I did five, it was probably like"},{"startTime":209.858,"endTime":217.788,"body":"five years in a PhD program in biomedical"},{"startTime":217.788,"endTime":218.898,"body":"engineering."},{"startTime":218.978,"endTime":221.598,"body":"Although I never did my dissertation or"},{"startTime":218.978,"endTime":221.598,"body":"anything in that."},{"startTime":221.598,"endTime":226.288,"body":"And I remember sitting in a class on MRIs"},{"startTime":221.598,"endTime":226.288,"body":"and I had completed almost all my"},{"startTime":226.288,"endTime":228.198,"body":"classwork, but I hadn't done any research"},{"startTime":226.288,"endTime":228.198,"body":"yet."},{"startTime":228.198,"endTime":229.732,"body":"It was hard to find funding."},{"startTime":230.262,"endTime":234.542,"body":"And I'm sitting in there with PhDs in math"},{"startTime":230.262,"endTime":234.542,"body":"and physics."},{"startTime":234.602,"endTime":238.502,"body":"And the guy walks in, he's like, Hey,"},{"startTime":234.602,"endTime":238.502,"body":"we're going to learn all about MRIs."},{"startTime":238.502,"endTime":241.752,"body":"And we're going to derive all the"},{"startTime":238.502,"endTime":241.752,"body":"equations that are used in MRIs from"},{"startTime":241.752,"endTime":242.192,"body":"scratch."},{"startTime":242.192,"endTime":244.302,"body":"I'm like, you got to be kidding me."},{"startTime":244.302,"endTime":247.472,"body":"I looked at all these kids are just"},{"startTime":244.302,"endTime":247.472,"body":"sitting there frantically scribbling stuff"},{"startTime":247.472,"endTime":251.602,"body":"down and my elbow, the guy next to me was"},{"startTime":247.472,"endTime":251.602,"body":"a PhD in mathematics."},{"startTime":251.602,"endTime":254.232,"body":"I'm like, do you even know what he's"},{"startTime":251.602,"endTime":254.232,"body":"writing on the board?"},{"startTime":254.232,"endTime":255.602,"body":"He's like, no."},{"startTime":255.602,"endTime":258.962,"body":"And he's just like, I know this stuff"},{"startTime":255.602,"endTime":258.962,"body":"down."},{"startTime":258.998,"endTime":263.178,"body":"And it was kind of at that point where I'm"},{"startTime":258.998,"endTime":263.178,"body":"like, OK, I'm either going to somehow"},{"startTime":263.178,"endTime":268.33799999999997,"body":"finish this or I'm going to jump ship and"},{"startTime":263.178,"endTime":268.33799999999997,"body":"go to exercise physiology, which I have"},{"startTime":268.33799999999997,"endTime":269.858,"body":"been thinking about for a long time."},{"startTime":269.858,"endTime":272.818,"body":"But, you know, probably similar to what"},{"startTime":269.858,"endTime":272.818,"body":"you guys have done to you put so much time"},{"startTime":272.818,"endTime":275.998,"body":"and effort into something and you get so"},{"startTime":272.818,"endTime":275.998,"body":"far into it."},{"startTime":275.998,"endTime":279.33799999999997,"body":"You're like, oh, man, like this to start"},{"startTime":275.998,"endTime":279.33799999999997,"body":"over is to be so horrible."},{"startTime":279.33799999999997,"endTime":280.938,"body":"I don't know if I want to do that."},{"startTime":280.938,"endTime":285.368,"body":"But I realize at that point, it's either"},{"startTime":280.938,"endTime":285.368,"body":"go forward or, you know, switch and burn"},{"startTime":285.368,"endTime":287.802,"body":"the ships and do something else entirely."},{"startTime":288.074,"endTime":292.274,"body":"Ironically, I went over to exercise"},{"startTime":288.074,"endTime":292.274,"body":"physiology that fall, literally walk in"},{"startTime":292.274,"endTime":296.364,"body":"the first meeting and my advisor is like,"},{"startTime":292.274,"endTime":296.364,"body":"Hey, we got two new projects, but they"},{"startTime":296.364,"endTime":297.634,"body":"both involve math."},{"startTime":297.634,"endTime":301.314,"body":"One's on heart rate variability and one's"},{"startTime":297.634,"endTime":301.314,"body":"on metabolic flexibility."},{"startTime":301.314,"endTime":303.634,"body":"And I went over there because I did not"},{"startTime":301.314,"endTime":303.634,"body":"want to do any more math."},{"startTime":303.634,"endTime":307.414,"body":"I mean, I could do it, but it was not very"},{"startTime":303.634,"endTime":307.414,"body":"fun for me at all."},{"startTime":307.414,"endTime":310.114,"body":"And he looks around the table, there's"},{"startTime":307.414,"endTime":310.114,"body":"only five people there."},{"startTime":310.114,"endTime":313.834,"body":"He points at me and he was like, Hey you,"},{"startTime":310.114,"endTime":313.834,"body":"math boy, these are your projects now."},{"startTime":313.834,"endTime":315.766,"body":"I'm like, Oh my God, you gotta be kidding"},{"startTime":313.834,"endTime":315.766,"body":"me."},{"startTime":315.766,"endTime":319.596,"body":"Dropout's other program has been five"},{"startTime":315.766,"endTime":319.596,"body":"years in to come here to avoid math and"},{"startTime":319.596,"endTime":320.586,"body":"what do I get is math."},{"startTime":320.586,"endTime":325.606,"body":"But the math wasn't nearly as difficult as"},{"startTime":320.586,"endTime":325.606,"body":"what I had been doing before."},{"startTime":325.606,"endTime":328.206,"body":"And it actually worked out really well."},{"startTime":330.37,"endTime":331.06,"body":"Very cool."},{"startTime":331.06,"endTime":333.964,"body":"perfect sense when you put it that way."},{"startTime":334.25,"endTime":335.23,"body":"Yeah, that's awesome."},{"startTime":335.23,"endTime":339.0,"body":"Well, definitely heart rate variability is"},{"startTime":335.23,"endTime":339.0,"body":"one of the things that I want to touch on"},{"startTime":339.0,"endTime":341.07,"body":"throughout this conversation as well."},{"startTime":341.07,"endTime":344.69,"body":"But before we get in there, just a quick"},{"startTime":341.07,"endTime":344.69,"body":"brief background."},{"startTime":344.69,"endTime":349.75,"body":"Most of the listeners will be pretty"},{"startTime":344.69,"endTime":349.75,"body":"familiar with your name, as I've discussed"},{"startTime":349.75,"endTime":353.11,"body":"throughout the last few months, some of"},{"startTime":349.75,"endTime":353.11,"body":"our work that we've done together."},{"startTime":353.11,"endTime":354.43,"body":"I call you my cardio."},{"startTime":354.43,"endTime":355.23,"body":"Yeah, it was great."},{"startTime":355.23,"endTime":357.49,"body":"I call you my cardio coach on the podcast."},{"startTime":357.49,"endTime":359.89,"body":"So that's how people know you."},{"startTime":362.21,"endTime":363.842,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":363.842,"endTime":368.942,"body":"Um, so one of the things we were working"},{"startTime":363.842,"endTime":368.942,"body":"on really closely was, it was VO two max."},{"startTime":368.942,"endTime":373.682,"body":"And, um, it all kind of started just to"},{"startTime":368.942,"endTime":373.682,"body":"give everyone a brief background before,"},{"startTime":373.682,"endTime":376.722,"body":"you know, if they're, if they're new to"},{"startTime":373.682,"endTime":376.722,"body":"the podcast, whatever, uh, we started"},{"startTime":376.722,"endTime":383.332,"body":"working together in October after I was on"},{"startTime":376.722,"endTime":383.332,"body":"your podcast and we kind of went down the"},{"startTime":383.332,"endTime":387.832,"body":"rabbit hole of cardio and discovered that"},{"startTime":383.332,"endTime":387.832,"body":"all the zone to work that I was doing"},{"startTime":387.832,"endTime":391.832,"body":"wasn't really going to be super effective"},{"startTime":387.832,"endTime":391.832,"body":"to increase my VO two max."},{"startTime":391.832,"endTime":392.706,"body":"And then we kind of."},{"startTime":392.706,"endTime":397.366,"body":"paired up, started working on some of"},{"startTime":392.706,"endTime":397.366,"body":"these rowing workouts and specifically"},{"startTime":397.366,"endTime":401.786,"body":"focusing on the rower and specifically"},{"startTime":397.366,"endTime":401.786,"body":"even to narrow that down, the 2K row test,"},{"startTime":401.786,"endTime":408.546,"body":"which is a seven to eight minute kind of"},{"startTime":401.786,"endTime":408.546,"body":"brutal all out VO2 max effort."},{"startTime":408.646,"endTime":415.416,"body":"And so my first question for you is, you"},{"startTime":408.646,"endTime":415.416,"body":"know, we exist in this world of very"},{"startTime":415.416,"endTime":418.466,"body":"specialized exercise coaches."},{"startTime":418.466,"endTime":420.936,"body":"It's very siloed into different expertise."},{"startTime":420.936,"endTime":421.824,"body":"Like you have your,"},{"startTime":421.824,"endTime":425.654,"body":"physique coaches and you have your strong"},{"startTime":421.824,"endTime":425.654,"body":"man and you have your powerlifting and you"},{"startTime":425.654,"endTime":428.074,"body":"have your crossfit and you have your"},{"startTime":425.654,"endTime":428.074,"body":"endurance."},{"startTime":428.734,"endTime":433.034,"body":"And so we don't often see somebody that's"},{"startTime":428.734,"endTime":433.034,"body":"kind of a jack of all trades coach."},{"startTime":433.034,"endTime":436.554,"body":"And so how did you find yourself in a"},{"startTime":433.034,"endTime":436.554,"body":"position where you're coaching all of"},{"startTime":436.554,"endTime":439.694,"body":"these different types of specialized"},{"startTime":436.554,"endTime":439.694,"body":"athletes?"},{"startTime":440.954,"endTime":443.904,"body":"Yeah, just kind of give us that background"},{"startTime":440.954,"endTime":443.904,"body":"there, because I'm very curious about"},{"startTime":443.904,"endTime":444.602,"body":"that."},{"startTime":445.974,"endTime":448.344,"body":"Yeah, I just sort of like a lot of things."},{"startTime":448.344,"endTime":452.914,"body":"You just ran into it because the"},{"startTime":448.344,"endTime":452.914,"body":"newsletter I write, which I write for"},{"startTime":452.914,"endTime":458.034,"body":"daily, I still write to mostly, you know,"},{"startTime":452.914,"endTime":458.034,"body":"Jim bros in their thirties, forties,"},{"startTime":458.034,"endTime":459.154,"body":"fifties."},{"startTime":459.154,"endTime":461.464,"body":"But even now it's a little bit less."},{"startTime":461.464,"endTime":467.074,"body":"But even now, 70 % of my online clients"},{"startTime":461.464,"endTime":467.074,"body":"are women, even though I write to dudes,"},{"startTime":467.074,"endTime":468.924,"body":"which is weird, right?"},{"startTime":468.924,"endTime":470.834,"body":"So all the marketing people would be like,"},{"startTime":468.924,"endTime":470.834,"body":"what?"},{"startTime":470.834,"endTime":472.214,"body":"That's stupid."},{"startTime":472.214,"endTime":474.71,"body":"You should try to write more specifically"},{"startTime":472.214,"endTime":474.71,"body":"to women."},{"startTime":474.902,"endTime":479.672,"body":"But I just found that the women I worked"},{"startTime":474.902,"endTime":479.672,"body":"with, the female clients liked a different"},{"startTime":479.672,"endTime":482.182,"body":"approach and were looking for something"},{"startTime":479.672,"endTime":482.182,"body":"different."},{"startTime":482.182,"endTime":486.902,"body":"And with the wide variety of clients I got"},{"startTime":482.182,"endTime":486.902,"body":"into, it was just, I realized solving"},{"startTime":486.902,"endTime":492.782,"body":"problems and the clients I've always had,"},{"startTime":486.902,"endTime":492.782,"body":"there's always something weird."},{"startTime":492.782,"endTime":496.142,"body":"It was like something missing, but no"},{"startTime":492.782,"endTime":496.142,"body":"one's been able to figure it out."},{"startTime":496.142,"endTime":501.422,"body":"Whether it's a mechanics thing, whether"},{"startTime":496.142,"endTime":501.422,"body":"it's a biochemical thing or who knows."},{"startTime":501.422,"endTime":504.406,"body":"So fast forward over a long period of"},{"startTime":501.422,"endTime":504.406,"body":"time."},{"startTime":504.406,"endTime":507.156,"body":"And extremely to you guys, you get a"},{"startTime":504.406,"endTime":507.156,"body":"client and you're like, Oh, that sounds"},{"startTime":507.156,"endTime":507.396,"body":"good."},{"startTime":507.396,"endTime":508.096,"body":"And then you get into it."},{"startTime":508.096,"endTime":509.956,"body":"You're like, Oh crap."},{"startTime":509.956,"endTime":511.806,"body":"I didn't realize this was the issue."},{"startTime":511.806,"endTime":516.986,"body":"And the nice part about being me is I can"},{"startTime":511.806,"endTime":516.986,"body":"literally call experts on the phone and be"},{"startTime":516.986,"endTime":519.866,"body":"like, Hey man, I got this client, like"},{"startTime":516.986,"endTime":519.866,"body":"what's going on?"},{"startTime":519.866,"endTime":523.1859999999999,"body":"Uh, or, you know, go back, read all the"},{"startTime":519.866,"endTime":523.1859999999999,"body":"primary research."},{"startTime":523.1859999999999,"endTime":526.146,"body":"And so it just sort of evolved with that."},{"startTime":526.146,"endTime":529.716,"body":"And from a marketing standpoint, it makes"},{"startTime":526.146,"endTime":529.716,"body":"like I've hired a high level marketing"},{"startTime":529.716,"endTime":533.346,"body":"consultant before, and he just kind of"},{"startTime":529.716,"endTime":533.346,"body":"shook his head at me most of the time."},{"startTime":533.346,"endTime":534.142,"body":"He's like,"},{"startTime":534.1659999999999,"endTime":535.6759999999999,"body":"I don't know what you're doing makes no"},{"startTime":534.1659999999999,"endTime":535.6759999999999,"body":"sense."},{"startTime":535.6759999999999,"endTime":539.726,"body":"Like you need a niche, like you need to"},{"startTime":535.6759999999999,"endTime":539.726,"body":"work with only these people and market"},{"startTime":539.726,"endTime":540.886,"body":"this way."},{"startTime":540.886,"endTime":544.886,"body":"And I'm like, yeah, but I get kind of"},{"startTime":540.886,"endTime":544.886,"body":"bored with that after a while too."},{"startTime":544.886,"endTime":550.626,"body":"And it's hard to quantify in your"},{"startTime":544.886,"endTime":550.626,"body":"advertisement of, you know, this person"},{"startTime":550.626,"endTime":555.546,"body":"had, so a natural bodybuilder guy worked"},{"startTime":550.626,"endTime":555.546,"body":"with years ago, had a right shoulder pain,"},{"startTime":555.546,"endTime":559.702,"body":"had MRIs, had everything completely clear,"},{"startTime":555.546,"endTime":559.702,"body":"passed every physical."},{"startTime":559.702,"endTime":563.312,"body":"And I sent him a note just half joking one"},{"startTime":559.702,"endTime":563.312,"body":"day that I got tired of him bitching on"},{"startTime":563.312,"endTime":566.242,"body":"all these different boards back in the day"},{"startTime":563.312,"endTime":566.242,"body":"about his right shoulder."},{"startTime":566.242,"endTime":568.662,"body":"And I said, ah, just let me try some"},{"startTime":566.242,"endTime":568.662,"body":"stuff."},{"startTime":569.182,"endTime":574.782,"body":"And long story short, he couldn't do left"},{"startTime":569.182,"endTime":574.782,"body":"internal rotation with his left lower leg."},{"startTime":574.782,"endTime":578.422,"body":"The second we put his left lower leg in"},{"startTime":574.782,"endTime":578.422,"body":"internal rotation, he could press with his"},{"startTime":578.422,"endTime":579.982,"body":"right arm with no pain."},{"startTime":580.202,"endTime":581.632,"body":"He's like, what the hell is that?"},{"startTime":581.632,"endTime":582.842,"body":"That's so weird."},{"startTime":582.842,"endTime":584.962,"body":"So he obviously signed up as a quiet."},{"startTime":584.962,"endTime":587.204,"body":"And so you just accumulate this sort of"},{"startTime":584.962,"endTime":587.204,"body":"weird."},{"startTime":587.478,"endTime":590.658,"body":"weird things, metabolic issues, all that"},{"startTime":587.478,"endTime":590.658,"body":"stuff over time."},{"startTime":590.658,"endTime":593.278,"body":"And so for me, what I realized, it"},{"startTime":590.658,"endTime":593.278,"body":"probably took me a long time to figure"},{"startTime":593.278,"endTime":598.758,"body":"this out is I just like high level problem"},{"startTime":593.278,"endTime":598.758,"body":"solving, you know?"},{"startTime":598.758,"endTime":603.498,"body":"And I also realized that if I'm only doing"},{"startTime":598.758,"endTime":603.498,"body":"nutrition or I'm only doing exercise,"},{"startTime":603.498,"endTime":607.388,"body":"unless it's a very high level athlete"},{"startTime":603.498,"endTime":607.388,"body":"where I can literally call their coach on"},{"startTime":607.388,"endTime":610.988,"body":"a first name basis and be like, Hey, you"},{"startTime":607.388,"endTime":610.988,"body":"know, here's what I'm thinking on this or"},{"startTime":610.988,"endTime":612.238,"body":"that."},{"startTime":612.518,"endTime":617.11,"body":"Generally don't work with them because"},{"startTime":612.518,"endTime":617.11,"body":"it's a pain in the butt."},{"startTime":617.11,"endTime":620.19,"body":"Like, cause it's always the thing you're"},{"startTime":617.11,"endTime":620.19,"body":"not in control of that becomes your rate"},{"startTime":620.19,"endTime":620.97,"body":"limiter."},{"startTime":620.97,"endTime":623.82,"body":"You know, someone's like, Oh, I hired you"},{"startTime":620.97,"endTime":623.82,"body":"for training for body comp."},{"startTime":623.82,"endTime":627.52,"body":"And then you realize their nutrition is a"},{"startTime":623.82,"endTime":627.52,"body":"trash bin fire or the reverse."},{"startTime":627.52,"endTime":631.53,"body":"They hire you just for nutrition and their"},{"startTime":627.52,"endTime":631.53,"body":"training is just a complete poo show."},{"startTime":631.53,"endTime":635.66,"body":"You know, and I realized over time that I"},{"startTime":631.53,"endTime":635.66,"body":"just, I don't, I don't want those"},{"startTime":635.66,"endTime":636.55,"body":"headaches."},{"startTime":636.55,"endTime":639.75,"body":"So I'm probably one of the weird people"},{"startTime":636.55,"endTime":639.75,"body":"that does all their warmups, all their"},{"startTime":639.75,"endTime":644.04,"body":"cool downs, all their, you know, somewhat"},{"startTime":639.75,"endTime":644.04,"body":"basic neurology stuff and mechanics stuff,"},{"startTime":644.04,"endTime":646.294,"body":"the nutrition, the sleep, the recovery."},{"startTime":646.294,"endTime":650.224,"body":"And doing it long enough, you'll kind of"},{"startTime":646.294,"endTime":650.224,"body":"realize where your borders are and where"},{"startTime":650.224,"endTime":652.514,"body":"you definitely need to refer out."},{"startTime":652.514,"endTime":656.084,"body":"You know, so I have certain neurologic"},{"startTime":652.514,"endTime":656.084,"body":"tests where I'm like, Hey man, like you"},{"startTime":656.084,"endTime":659.344,"body":"definitely need to go see this guy because"},{"startTime":656.084,"endTime":659.344,"body":"you've been concussed four times and your"},{"startTime":659.344,"endTime":661.794,"body":"nervous system is just really, really"},{"startTime":659.344,"endTime":661.794,"body":"goofy."},{"startTime":661.794,"endTime":665.794,"body":"And I'm not the best person for that, but"},{"startTime":661.794,"endTime":665.794,"body":"you know, go see this person or that"},{"startTime":665.794,"endTime":666.642,"body":"person."},{"startTime":667.522,"endTime":669.492,"body":"Yeah, no, that's really interesting."},{"startTime":669.492,"endTime":674.202,"body":"Your breadth of expertise is very"},{"startTime":669.492,"endTime":674.202,"body":"impressive for sure."},{"startTime":674.942,"endTime":680.182,"body":"Yeah, yeah, you accumulated much wisdom"},{"startTime":674.942,"endTime":680.182,"body":"over the years."},{"startTime":681.542,"endTime":686.682,"body":"So in the most endearing way possible, I'm"},{"startTime":681.542,"endTime":686.682,"body":"gonna call the three of us meatheads."},{"startTime":687.422,"endTime":689.882,"body":"And yeah, totally."},{"startTime":690.822,"endTime":692.622,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":692.622,"endTime":694.306,"body":"And so as a meathead,"},{"startTime":694.306,"endTime":698.926,"body":"I was a, call it a late adopter to cardio."},{"startTime":699.166,"endTime":702.616,"body":"Maybe it was because I was younger, maybe"},{"startTime":699.166,"endTime":702.616,"body":"it was because I just had a bias and"},{"startTime":702.616,"endTime":704.686,"body":"didn't really want to believe in cardio."},{"startTime":704.686,"endTime":711.996,"body":"But one thing that really influenced me"},{"startTime":704.686,"endTime":711.996,"body":"into that belief system was a article from"},{"startTime":711.996,"endTime":717.106,"body":"the American College of Cardiology that"},{"startTime":711.996,"endTime":717.106,"body":"came out in about 2017."},{"startTime":717.106,"endTime":720.13,"body":"And so I have a quote from here that says,"},{"startTime":720.13,"endTime":723.67,"body":"While it is well known that physical"},{"startTime":720.13,"endTime":723.67,"body":"activity is important for heart health,"},{"startTime":723.67,"endTime":726.99,"body":"neither research nor recommendation"},{"startTime":723.67,"endTime":726.99,"body":"consistently differentiate between the"},{"startTime":726.99,"endTime":729.23,"body":"benefits of different types of physical"},{"startTime":726.99,"endTime":729.23,"body":"activity."},{"startTime":729.23,"endTime":734.51,"body":"New research presented at the ACC Latin"},{"startTime":729.23,"endTime":734.51,"body":"American Conference in 2018 found that"},{"startTime":734.51,"endTime":738.72,"body":"while all physical activity is beneficial,"},{"startTime":734.51,"endTime":738.72,"body":"static activities such as strength"},{"startTime":738.72,"endTime":743.59,"body":"training were more strongly associated"},{"startTime":738.72,"endTime":743.59,"body":"with reducing heart disease risks than"},{"startTime":743.59,"endTime":746.816,"body":"dynamic activities like walking and"},{"startTime":743.59,"endTime":746.816,"body":"cycling."},{"startTime":747.106,"endTime":749.286,"body":"And so I think I used that quote."},{"startTime":749.286,"endTime":752.866,"body":"I remember reading that back in, I guess"},{"startTime":749.286,"endTime":752.866,"body":"it must've been 2018, because that's what"},{"startTime":752.866,"endTime":753.586,"body":"it said."},{"startTime":753.586,"endTime":758.626,"body":"And being like, this is the reason why"},{"startTime":753.586,"endTime":758.626,"body":"strength training is more important and I"},{"startTime":758.626,"endTime":759.846,"body":"don't need to cardio."},{"startTime":759.846,"endTime":764.406,"body":"And I literally started programming"},{"startTime":759.846,"endTime":764.406,"body":"strength training plus steps."},{"startTime":764.406,"endTime":765.836,"body":"That was always my prescription."},{"startTime":765.836,"endTime":769.366,"body":"Just get your eight to 10 ,000 steps, do"},{"startTime":765.836,"endTime":769.366,"body":"strength training."},{"startTime":769.366,"endTime":774.016,"body":"Whereas it seems like you kind of had your"},{"startTime":769.366,"endTime":774.016,"body":"finger on the pulse of this cardio for"},{"startTime":774.016,"endTime":775.986,"body":"health movement a little bit earlier."},{"startTime":775.986,"endTime":776.666,"body":"And -"},{"startTime":776.674,"endTime":778.174,"body":"we're more on board with that."},{"startTime":778.174,"endTime":784.614,"body":"And so what are your thoughts on the idea"},{"startTime":778.174,"endTime":784.614,"body":"of strength training plus walking for"},{"startTime":784.614,"endTime":790.874,"body":"general health versus the need to include"},{"startTime":784.614,"endTime":790.874,"body":"zone two, zone five, and kind of some of"},{"startTime":790.874,"endTime":794.19,"body":"these more specific cardiovascular"},{"startTime":790.874,"endTime":794.19,"body":"modalities?"},{"startTime":795.222,"endTime":800.842,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I started it probably more"},{"startTime":795.222,"endTime":800.842,"body":"seriously, I'd say almost eight years ago."},{"startTime":800.842,"endTime":804.182,"body":"And the thing that kind of put me over the"},{"startTime":800.842,"endTime":804.182,"body":"edge was at the time I read similar stuff."},{"startTime":804.182,"endTime":806.142,"body":"I'm like, I hate doing cardio."},{"startTime":806.142,"endTime":809.732,"body":"And I read some studies about, you know,"},{"startTime":806.142,"endTime":809.732,"body":"from Vernon coffee about concurrent"},{"startTime":809.732,"endTime":811.742,"body":"interference, which I'm sure we'll talk"},{"startTime":809.732,"endTime":811.742,"body":"about."},{"startTime":811.742,"endTime":816.792,"body":"And, and at the time I was training for"},{"startTime":811.742,"endTime":816.792,"body":"strong man and I was like, ah, screw it."},{"startTime":816.792,"endTime":820.752,"body":"I'm not doing cardio, but you know, maybe"},{"startTime":816.792,"endTime":820.752,"body":"60 seconds of work at some point I'll do"},{"startTime":820.752,"endTime":822.632,"body":"medleys if I want to do cardio."},{"startTime":822.934,"endTime":827.464,"body":"And I remember at the time before I was"},{"startTime":822.934,"endTime":827.464,"body":"like, man, probably five months out from"},{"startTime":827.464,"endTime":832.384,"body":"the meat, just the local meat, walking up"},{"startTime":827.464,"endTime":832.384,"body":"the stairs and made it two flights."},{"startTime":832.384,"endTime":836.064,"body":"And I was just severely out of breath"},{"startTime":832.384,"endTime":836.064,"body":"because I hadn't done any cardio for like"},{"startTime":836.064,"endTime":836.974,"body":"a year."},{"startTime":836.974,"endTime":841.094,"body":"And I remember thinking, wait a minute, am"},{"startTime":836.974,"endTime":841.094,"body":"I gotten a lot stronger?"},{"startTime":841.094,"endTime":843.294,"body":"Like, are my strength gains like"},{"startTime":841.094,"endTime":843.294,"body":"significantly better?"},{"startTime":843.294,"endTime":846.694,"body":"And I went back and looked at all my"},{"startTime":843.294,"endTime":846.694,"body":"notes, like, am I really that much bigger?"},{"startTime":846.694,"endTime":850.166,"body":"And I realized, no, how do I feel?"},{"startTime":850.166,"endTime":851.826,"body":"I feel like dog shit lately."},{"startTime":851.826,"endTime":854.736,"body":"Like I'm sleeping all the time and"},{"startTime":851.826,"endTime":854.736,"body":"recovery sucks."},{"startTime":854.736,"endTime":856.106,"body":"Like this is horrible."},{"startTime":856.106,"endTime":858.826,"body":"I just got winded off of two flights of"},{"startTime":856.106,"endTime":858.826,"body":"stairs."},{"startTime":858.826,"endTime":859.426,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":859.426,"endTime":860.746,"body":"Maybe this isn't a good idea."},{"startTime":860.746,"endTime":862.406,"body":"Maybe I was wrong."},{"startTime":862.786,"endTime":864.456,"body":"And then found a bunch of other people."},{"startTime":864.456,"endTime":865.526,"body":"Um, like my friend, Dr."},{"startTime":865.526,"endTime":869.046,"body":"Kenneth J who's done a lot of stuff with"},{"startTime":865.526,"endTime":869.046,"body":"the Kerrig Institute for rowing."},{"startTime":869.046,"endTime":874.926,"body":"And to get back to your question, I, if"},{"startTime":869.046,"endTime":874.926,"body":"most people in general population just"},{"startTime":874.926,"endTime":877.406,"body":"lifted and got him a step count, would"},{"startTime":874.926,"endTime":877.406,"body":"they be better?"},{"startTime":877.406,"endTime":879.056,"body":"Yeah, no question."},{"startTime":879.19,"endTime":884.56,"body":"Now you will find some genetic freaks that"},{"startTime":879.19,"endTime":884.56,"body":"VO2 max stays fine just doing that."},{"startTime":884.56,"endTime":889.72,"body":"Like I've tested a couple of people and I"},{"startTime":884.56,"endTime":889.72,"body":"expected their, you know, VO2 max would be"},{"startTime":889.72,"endTime":892.43,"body":"dog shit and it was not bad really."},{"startTime":892.43,"endTime":894.07,"body":"But their training was pretty intense."},{"startTime":894.07,"endTime":897.29,"body":"You know, they may have won probably the"},{"startTime":894.07,"endTime":897.29,"body":"genetic lottery, et cetera."},{"startTime":897.49,"endTime":902.65,"body":"But I think if you are stuck and your VO2"},{"startTime":897.49,"endTime":902.65,"body":"max is still low or moderate or below"},{"startTime":902.65,"endTime":905.68,"body":"where you need, you know, just like"},{"startTime":902.65,"endTime":905.68,"body":"anything else, you're going to need"},{"startTime":905.68,"endTime":907.606,"body":"specific work in order to bring it up."},{"startTime":907.606,"endTime":910.186,"body":"You know, if you're talking about"},{"startTime":907.606,"endTime":910.186,"body":"bodybuilding, if your biceps are small"},{"startTime":910.186,"endTime":912.006,"body":"shocker, you're going to need bicep work."},{"startTime":912.006,"endTime":914.986,"body":"Um, so I don't think it's any different"},{"startTime":912.006,"endTime":914.986,"body":"than that."},{"startTime":914.986,"endTime":920.446,"body":"And I, I do think it's changed over time"},{"startTime":914.986,"endTime":920.446,"body":"with health and with, uh, with lifters,"},{"startTime":920.446,"endTime":922.436,"body":"but it's not really that new."},{"startTime":922.436,"endTime":925.746,"body":"If you go back and look like I would do a"},{"startTime":922.436,"endTime":925.746,"body":"lot of work with Cal Deeds, like, you"},{"startTime":925.746,"endTime":927.206,"body":"know, a lot of high level."},{"startTime":927.206,"endTime":931.186,"body":"So anything conditioning coaches have kind"},{"startTime":927.206,"endTime":931.186,"body":"of known this for a long time."},{"startTime":931.186,"endTime":934.266,"body":"Um, and have always kind of, you know,"},{"startTime":931.186,"endTime":934.266,"body":"programmed it that way."},{"startTime":934.266,"endTime":935.454,"body":"I think the health."},{"startTime":935.454,"endTime":939.124,"body":"Benefits of it have been highlighted a lot"},{"startTime":935.454,"endTime":939.124,"body":"more lately, which is also a really good"},{"startTime":939.124,"endTime":939.798,"body":"thing."},{"startTime":941.984,"endTime":944.336,"body":"Aaron, anything to jump in on on there?"},{"startTime":945.506,"endTime":951.016,"body":"My only thing that I was gonna add in"},{"startTime":945.506,"endTime":951.016,"body":"there is it's the one, as you were saying"},{"startTime":951.016,"endTime":956.206,"body":"that my kind of thought process in, as it"},{"startTime":951.016,"endTime":956.206,"body":"was explained, is it's like at like your"},{"startTime":956.206,"endTime":963.306,"body":"gen pop person, you know, probably, but"},{"startTime":956.206,"endTime":963.306,"body":"for someone who's even going to entertain"},{"startTime":963.306,"endTime":968.616,"body":"the idea of like actually doing like"},{"startTime":963.306,"endTime":968.616,"body":"cardio as well, you feel like you're"},{"startTime":968.616,"endTime":969.666,"body":"actually."},{"startTime":969.666,"endTime":976.216,"body":"you're shifting your the tides of the of"},{"startTime":969.666,"endTime":976.216,"body":"who the population actually is, right?"},{"startTime":976.216,"endTime":980.666,"body":"Because if someone's like, if you're like,"},{"startTime":976.216,"endTime":980.666,"body":"hey, for health, you should probably like,"},{"startTime":980.666,"endTime":985.236,"body":"you know, lift and do cardio, if they're"},{"startTime":980.666,"endTime":985.236,"body":"like, oh, okay, I'm going to be receptive"},{"startTime":985.236,"endTime":985.986,"body":"to that."},{"startTime":985.986,"endTime":990.296,"body":"They're already like, you know, an above"},{"startTime":985.986,"endTime":990.296,"body":"average gen pop sort of person, most"},{"startTime":990.296,"endTime":992.236,"body":"people are going to be like, got it."},{"startTime":992.236,"endTime":995.552,"body":"And then it's like, you out of their mind"},{"startTime":992.236,"endTime":995.552,"body":"sort of thing."},{"startTime":996.95,"endTime":999.45,"body":"Yeah, there's a lot of lifters like that"},{"startTime":996.95,"endTime":999.45,"body":"too."},{"startTime":999.45,"endTime":1003.82,"body":"And you know, one of things I do is I used"},{"startTime":999.45,"endTime":1003.82,"body":"to argue with people about stuff and over"},{"startTime":1003.82,"endTime":1007.21,"body":"time I finally got wiser and now I just"},{"startTime":1003.82,"endTime":1007.21,"body":"show them data."},{"startTime":1007.21,"endTime":1010.36,"body":"And I used to argue with people about"},{"startTime":1007.21,"endTime":1010.36,"body":"cardio because I went through the whole"},{"startTime":1010.36,"endTime":1010.54,"body":"thing."},{"startTime":1010.54,"endTime":1012.12,"body":"I'm like, man, I know this is your rate"},{"startTime":1010.54,"endTime":1012.12,"body":"limiter."},{"startTime":1012.12,"endTime":1013.83,"body":"Like, is it going to be amazing?"},{"startTime":1013.83,"endTime":1016.31,"body":"And they're like, ah, I just don't like"},{"startTime":1013.83,"endTime":1016.31,"body":"doing it sucks."},{"startTime":1016.31,"endTime":1017.28,"body":"Like I made it this far."},{"startTime":1017.28,"endTime":1018.67,"body":"I'm fine, bro."},{"startTime":1018.75,"endTime":1023.17,"body":"And I just, I would spend weeks and months"},{"startTime":1018.75,"endTime":1023.17,"body":"arguing with people."},{"startTime":1023.17,"endTime":1024.42,"body":"Eventually one day I'm like,"},{"startTime":1024.5,"endTime":1025.27,"body":"What's the stupid?"},{"startTime":1025.27,"endTime":1027.97,"body":"I should just do an assessment and see"},{"startTime":1025.27,"endTime":1027.97,"body":"where they're at."},{"startTime":1027.97,"endTime":1029.27,"body":"So I would do their assessment."},{"startTime":1029.27,"endTime":1033.75,"body":"I would give it to them either like in a"},{"startTime":1029.27,"endTime":1033.75,"body":"population that's athletic or just against"},{"startTime":1033.75,"endTime":1035.54,"body":"general population numbers."},{"startTime":1035.54,"endTime":1038.35,"body":"I'm like, Hey, you know, here's your VO2"},{"startTime":1035.54,"endTime":1038.35,"body":"max."},{"startTime":1038.35,"endTime":1042.53,"body":"You are at the bottom 20 % for a general"},{"startTime":1038.35,"endTime":1042.53,"body":"population."},{"startTime":1042.53,"endTime":1045.19,"body":"The general population is pretty damn"},{"startTime":1042.53,"endTime":1045.19,"body":"unfit."},{"startTime":1045.19,"endTime":1046.19,"body":"And that's all I would do."},{"startTime":1046.19,"endTime":1048.1,"body":"And I'd send them the graph or I talked to"},{"startTime":1046.19,"endTime":1048.1,"body":"them in person."},{"startTime":1048.1,"endTime":1048.56,"body":"That was it."},{"startTime":1048.56,"endTime":1050.11,"body":"I just shut up."},{"startTime":1050.11,"endTime":1052.818,"body":"And 99 % of the time they're like, Oh,"},{"startTime":1053.27,"endTime":1054.71,"body":"I didn't realize I sucked that bad."},{"startTime":1054.71,"endTime":1056.93,"body":"Oh, well, how do I make it better?"},{"startTime":1056.93,"endTime":1057.97,"body":"Oh, cool."},{"startTime":1057.97,"endTime":1059.83,"body":"I'm so glad you asked."},{"startTime":1060.85,"endTime":1063.71,"body":"You know, instead of trying to argue with"},{"startTime":1060.85,"endTime":1063.71,"body":"people all the time, it doesn't always"},{"startTime":1063.71,"endTime":1067.91,"body":"work, but more often than not, if they're"},{"startTime":1063.71,"endTime":1067.91,"body":"somewhat like you said, competitive or"},{"startTime":1067.91,"endTime":1072.17,"body":"they want to get better, then they"},{"startTime":1067.91,"endTime":1072.17,"body":"realize, oh, okay."},{"startTime":1072.17,"endTime":1072.79,"body":"Yeah, okay."},{"startTime":1072.79,"endTime":1074.35,"body":"I'm on board now."},{"startTime":1075.522,"endTime":1077.402,"body":"Yep, that makes total sense."},{"startTime":1077.402,"endTime":1081.652,"body":"So similar to kind of the bias that I had"},{"startTime":1077.402,"endTime":1081.652,"body":"around strength training and walking and"},{"startTime":1081.652,"endTime":1087.472,"body":"kind of the avoidance of cardio, I think"},{"startTime":1081.652,"endTime":1087.472,"body":"part of that was supported by the"},{"startTime":1087.472,"endTime":1090.142,"body":"literature at the time on concurrent"},{"startTime":1087.472,"endTime":1090.142,"body":"training."},{"startTime":1090.142,"endTime":1094.962,"body":"And so it seemed like right around that"},{"startTime":1090.142,"endTime":1094.962,"body":"time in the mid 2000 teens, there was a"},{"startTime":1094.962,"endTime":1099.282,"body":"lot of research talking about the"},{"startTime":1094.962,"endTime":1099.282,"body":"interference effect and how that can be"},{"startTime":1099.282,"endTime":1103.318,"body":"problematic if you have, you know,"},{"startTime":1099.282,"endTime":1103.318,"body":"specific goals in one or the other."},{"startTime":1103.318,"endTime":1108.338,"body":"And so can you just briefly kind of take"},{"startTime":1103.318,"endTime":1108.338,"body":"us through anything that you can reference"},{"startTime":1108.338,"endTime":1112.988,"body":"from the literature or your own experience"},{"startTime":1108.338,"endTime":1112.988,"body":"regarding concurrent training and how that"},{"startTime":1112.988,"endTime":1119.136,"body":"has kind of progressed through over the"},{"startTime":1112.988,"endTime":1119.136,"body":"last five to 10 years?"},{"startTime":1120.054,"endTime":1126.134,"body":"Yeah, so concurrent training is basically,"},{"startTime":1120.054,"endTime":1126.134,"body":"can you do two modalities at the same time"},{"startTime":1126.134,"endTime":1128.074,"body":"and get the highest level results?"},{"startTime":1128.254,"endTime":1133.174,"body":"At the high level, concurrent training,"},{"startTime":1128.254,"endTime":1133.174,"body":"there is an interference effect, right?"},{"startTime":1133.174,"endTime":1136.514,"body":"You don't see pro bodybuilders winning"},{"startTime":1133.174,"endTime":1136.514,"body":"marathons, right?"},{"startTime":1136.514,"endTime":1141.264,"body":"You just don't see the classic endurance"},{"startTime":1136.514,"endTime":1141.264,"body":"athlete competing in strength and power"},{"startTime":1141.264,"endTime":1142.954,"body":"sports and doing really well."},{"startTime":1142.954,"endTime":1144.714,"body":"Vice versa, you don't see the reverse."},{"startTime":1144.714,"endTime":1147.654,"body":"So on some level, it is a true thing."},{"startTime":1147.99,"endTime":1153.26,"body":"And for the listeners, the reason that is,"},{"startTime":1147.99,"endTime":1153.26,"body":"is if we take a simplistic view, which"},{"startTime":1153.26,"endTime":1156.84,"body":"this is a little bit overly simplistic,"},{"startTime":1153.26,"endTime":1156.84,"body":"but you have generally two types of"},{"startTime":1156.84,"endTime":1157.41,"body":"fibers."},{"startTime":1157.41,"endTime":1159.68,"body":"You have your fast -touch fibers and your"},{"startTime":1157.41,"endTime":1159.68,"body":"slow -touch fibers."},{"startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1163.51,"body":"And there's all subsets and hybrids in"},{"startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1163.51,"body":"between and everything else, depending on"},{"startTime":1163.51,"endTime":1165.25,"body":"what classification you use."},{"startTime":1165.49,"endTime":1168.68,"body":"These slow -touch fibers generally are"},{"startTime":1165.49,"endTime":1168.68,"body":"more aerobic."},{"startTime":1168.68,"endTime":1173.17,"body":"My little air quotes here, meaning they"},{"startTime":1168.68,"endTime":1173.17,"body":"have to use oxygen in order to create"},{"startTime":1173.17,"endTime":1173.974,"body":"energy."},{"startTime":1173.974,"endTime":1177.334,"body":"These are the ones you would more"},{"startTime":1173.974,"endTime":1177.334,"body":"preferentially use if you're doing a lot"},{"startTime":1177.334,"endTime":1181.014,"body":"of aerobic training and you're going to go"},{"startTime":1177.334,"endTime":1181.014,"body":"run a marathon, et cetera."},{"startTime":1181.034,"endTime":1184.754,"body":"And the reason they're smaller is that"},{"startTime":1181.034,"endTime":1184.754,"body":"they're wired differently."},{"startTime":1184.754,"endTime":1189.594,"body":"But one of the main reasons is that you"},{"startTime":1184.754,"endTime":1189.594,"body":"have to have oxygen diffuse into the"},{"startTime":1189.594,"endTime":1192.354,"body":"fiber, something called the Krogh cylinder"},{"startTime":1189.594,"endTime":1192.354,"body":"model."},{"startTime":1192.354,"endTime":1197.334,"body":"If the fiber gets literally too big"},{"startTime":1192.354,"endTime":1197.334,"body":"because diffusion is this passive process,"},{"startTime":1197.394,"endTime":1200.214,"body":"the inside part of the fiber will"},{"startTime":1197.394,"endTime":1200.214,"body":"literally die."},{"startTime":1200.214,"endTime":1205.344,"body":"So there's a hard -coded limit based on"},{"startTime":1200.214,"endTime":1205.344,"body":"the diffusion of oxygen of how big that"},{"startTime":1205.344,"endTime":1206.954,"body":"fiber can actually get."},{"startTime":1206.954,"endTime":1212.114,"body":"But because it's using oxygen, it has the"},{"startTime":1206.954,"endTime":1212.114,"body":"ability to produce force over a slow rate"},{"startTime":1212.114,"endTime":1214.934,"body":"for long, long, long periods of time."},{"startTime":1214.934,"endTime":1218.024,"body":"If you go to your fast -switch fibers,"},{"startTime":1214.934,"endTime":1218.024,"body":"those are your classic, my little air"},{"startTime":1218.024,"endTime":1219.774,"body":"quotes here, anaerobic fibers."},{"startTime":1219.774,"endTime":1223.794,"body":"They don't necessarily need oxygen to,"},{"startTime":1219.774,"endTime":1223.794,"body":"quote, survive."},{"startTime":1223.794,"endTime":1225.674,"body":"Yes, oxygen is a sort of backup."},{"startTime":1225.674,"endTime":1226.444,"body":"It does work."},{"startTime":1226.444,"endTime":1227.638,"body":"You do need it."},{"startTime":1227.712,"endTime":1232.042,"body":"those fibers can get a lot bigger because"},{"startTime":1227.712,"endTime":1232.042,"body":"there's no rate limiter of diffusion of"},{"startTime":1232.042,"endTime":1233.962,"body":"oxygen into the fibers."},{"startTime":1234.202,"endTime":1238.682,"body":"So knowing that, I probably over"},{"startTime":1234.202,"endTime":1238.682,"body":"extrapolated that early on to be like,"},{"startTime":1238.682,"endTime":1241.502,"body":"yeah, that's why aerobic training kills"},{"startTime":1238.682,"endTime":1241.502,"body":"all your gaits, man."},{"startTime":1241.502,"endTime":1244.632,"body":"Like it's just gonna make all your fibers"},{"startTime":1241.502,"endTime":1244.632,"body":"weak and small and then you don't want"},{"startTime":1244.632,"endTime":1245.522,"body":"that."},{"startTime":1245.522,"endTime":1250.782,"body":"But if you look at the literature, the"},{"startTime":1245.522,"endTime":1250.782,"body":"amount of work you would need to do to see"},{"startTime":1250.782,"endTime":1252.726,"body":"an effect is..."},{"startTime":1252.726,"endTime":1255.626,"body":"astronomical like you read some of the"},{"startTime":1252.726,"endTime":1255.626,"body":"studies where there was a true"},{"startTime":1255.626,"endTime":1260.636,"body":"interference effect in people who were"},{"startTime":1255.626,"endTime":1260.636,"body":"moderately trained they just literally"},{"startTime":1260.636,"endTime":1265.216,"body":"beat the ever -living crap out of them"},{"startTime":1260.636,"endTime":1265.216,"body":"with endurance stuff and they did lifting"},{"startTime":1265.216,"endTime":1269.546,"body":"on top of it you could even argue maybe"},{"startTime":1265.216,"endTime":1269.546,"body":"their sleep wasn't great maybe their"},{"startTime":1269.546,"endTime":1274.236,"body":"collars weren't controlled all that kind"},{"startTime":1269.546,"endTime":1274.236,"body":"of stuff so at some level there is a"},{"startTime":1274.236,"endTime":1280.466,"body":"interference effect will most people"},{"startTime":1274.236,"endTime":1280.466,"body":"probably run into that no the caveat with"},{"startTime":1280.466,"endTime":1282.078,"body":"that is if your goal is"},{"startTime":1282.078,"endTime":1288.218,"body":"maximal speed and power, would I"},{"startTime":1282.078,"endTime":1288.218,"body":"necessarily have you do a 40 % of just"},{"startTime":1288.218,"endTime":1290.758,"body":"moderate cardio after your speed and power"},{"startTime":1288.218,"endTime":1290.758,"body":"days?"},{"startTime":1290.758,"endTime":1291.798,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1291.798,"endTime":1296.398,"body":"But for most people, you don't really need"},{"startTime":1291.798,"endTime":1296.398,"body":"to worry about it."},{"startTime":1296.398,"endTime":1300.998,"body":"Having said that, I do still tend to"},{"startTime":1296.398,"endTime":1300.998,"body":"program aerobic stuff in the morning,"},{"startTime":1300.998,"endTime":1302.318,"body":"starting training in the afternoon."},{"startTime":1302.318,"endTime":1305.678,"body":"I will try to separate them a little bit."},{"startTime":1306.478,"endTime":1311.068,"body":"The molecular underpinnings of aerobic"},{"startTime":1306.478,"endTime":1311.068,"body":"stuff will last four to six hours in"},{"startTime":1311.068,"endTime":1311.956,"body":"general."},{"startTime":1311.99,"endTime":1314.76,"body":"Strength training stuff, as we know, you"},{"startTime":1311.99,"endTime":1314.76,"body":"guys have talked a lot about this, could"},{"startTime":1314.76,"endTime":1317.83,"body":"be 24, 48, potentially 72 hours."},{"startTime":1317.83,"endTime":1321.38,"body":"You still see changes in muscle protein"},{"startTime":1317.83,"endTime":1321.38,"body":"synthesis, other effects, depending on"},{"startTime":1321.38,"endTime":1323.39,"body":"your training status, what you did."},{"startTime":1323.79,"endTime":1328.19,"body":"So my bias is I will program aerobic stuff"},{"startTime":1323.79,"endTime":1328.19,"body":"usually earlier in the day, especially if"},{"startTime":1328.19,"endTime":1331.63,"body":"it's moderate level stuff and strength"},{"startTime":1328.19,"endTime":1331.63,"body":"training later."},{"startTime":1331.63,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"Having said that, if someone is even just"},{"startTime":1331.63,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"moderately fit, they're super cramped for"},{"startTime":1336.02,"endTime":1340.87,"body":"time, yeah, I have programmed them one"},{"startTime":1336.02,"endTime":1340.87,"body":"session after the other."},{"startTime":1340.87,"endTime":1341.622,"body":"Is it?"},{"startTime":1341.622,"endTime":1343.442,"body":"quote unquote, perfect or optimized?"},{"startTime":1343.442,"endTime":1344.682,"body":"Probably not."},{"startTime":1344.682,"endTime":1346.832,"body":"But is it something they really need to"},{"startTime":1344.682,"endTime":1346.832,"body":"worry about it?"},{"startTime":1346.832,"endTime":1350.342,"body":"If the option was, hey, they're not going"},{"startTime":1346.832,"endTime":1350.342,"body":"to do any cardio at all."},{"startTime":1350.342,"endTime":1355.702,"body":"Shit, like doing stuff after your main"},{"startTime":1350.342,"endTime":1355.702,"body":"lifting is way better than not doing it at"},{"startTime":1355.702,"endTime":1356.342,"body":"all."},{"startTime":1356.342,"endTime":1356.582,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1356.582,"endTime":1358.512,"body":"And that's the part people forget."},{"startTime":1358.512,"endTime":1360.132,"body":"It's like, what are you comparing it to?"},{"startTime":1360.132,"endTime":1361.702,"body":"What is the context?"},{"startTime":1361.702,"endTime":1365.612,"body":"So we can, you know, debate stuff about"},{"startTime":1361.702,"endTime":1365.612,"body":"moderate or rubby training directly after"},{"startTime":1365.612,"endTime":1366.742,"body":"strength training."},{"startTime":1366.822,"endTime":1368.252,"body":"Yeah, maybe it's not best."},{"startTime":1368.252,"endTime":1371.286,"body":"Like you're pulling the organism a little"},{"startTime":1368.252,"endTime":1371.286,"body":"bit too different directions."},{"startTime":1371.286,"endTime":1375.606,"body":"However, if that was your option versus,"},{"startTime":1371.286,"endTime":1375.606,"body":"oh bro, I'm not doing any cardio at all."},{"startTime":1375.606,"endTime":1377.056,"body":"Like just do the cardio first."},{"startTime":1377.056,"endTime":1378.666,"body":"Like do the exercise first."},{"startTime":1378.666,"endTime":1381.086,"body":"You, you're still going to get a lot of"},{"startTime":1378.666,"endTime":1381.086,"body":"benefit."},{"startTime":1381.086,"endTime":1381.326,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1381.326,"endTime":1385.086,"body":"If you scale all that up super high, will"},{"startTime":1381.326,"endTime":1385.086,"body":"you run into issues?"},{"startTime":1385.086,"endTime":1386.386,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1387.006,"endTime":1390.676,"body":"However, I think usually that main issue"},{"startTime":1387.006,"endTime":1390.676,"body":"is people just don't eat enough at that"},{"startTime":1390.676,"endTime":1391.586,"body":"point."},{"startTime":1391.586,"endTime":1395.936,"body":"Um, but if you even, you know, cover all"},{"startTime":1391.586,"endTime":1395.936,"body":"those recoveries, good, you max out all"},{"startTime":1395.936,"endTime":1396.526,"body":"that."},{"startTime":1396.526,"endTime":1396.706,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1396.706,"endTime":1399.666,"body":"At some point you are going to run into an"},{"startTime":1396.706,"endTime":1399.666,"body":"interference effect."},{"startTime":1399.666,"endTime":1400.694,"body":"However,"},{"startTime":1400.694,"endTime":1402.894,"body":"It's still a small percentage."},{"startTime":1402.894,"endTime":1407.634,"body":"It's not like you destroyed all of your"},{"startTime":1402.894,"endTime":1407.634,"body":"gains and you're never gonna get bigger."},{"startTime":1407.974,"endTime":1412.474,"body":"Again, most people who, especially"},{"startTime":1407.974,"endTime":1412.474,"body":"lifters, like if I run into a legit person"},{"startTime":1412.474,"endTime":1419.374,"body":"who I think has an interference effect"},{"startTime":1412.474,"endTime":1419.374,"body":"who's primarily lifting in like 15 years,"},{"startTime":1419.774,"endTime":1421.894,"body":"no, I don't think so."},{"startTime":1422.334,"endTime":1423.434,"body":"Does it exist?"},{"startTime":1423.434,"endTime":1425.474,"body":"I equate it to over training."},{"startTime":1425.474,"endTime":1427.434,"body":"Like is over training a thing?"},{"startTime":1427.434,"endTime":1428.182,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1428.182,"endTime":1430.162,"body":"Is overtraining syndrome a thing?"},{"startTime":1430.162,"endTime":1430.942,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1430.942,"endTime":1435.202,"body":"Will most people who lift ever have to"},{"startTime":1430.942,"endTime":1435.202,"body":"worry about overtraining syndrome unless"},{"startTime":1435.202,"endTime":1438.522,"body":"their lifestyle is a complete pooh show?"},{"startTime":1438.582,"endTime":1439.742,"body":"Probably not."},{"startTime":1439.742,"endTime":1441.242,"body":"Doesn't mean it doesn't exist."},{"startTime":1441.242,"endTime":1445.492,"body":"It's just out of all the things you want"},{"startTime":1441.242,"endTime":1445.492,"body":"to worry about, that's like super far down"},{"startTime":1445.492,"endTime":1446.388,"body":"the list."},{"startTime":1446.754,"endTime":1447.794,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1447.854,"endTime":1448.734,"body":"No, that's great."},{"startTime":1448.734,"endTime":1453.554,"body":"I think that what we're basically hearing"},{"startTime":1448.734,"endTime":1453.554,"body":"is that as long as you're not taking it to"},{"startTime":1453.554,"endTime":1457.484,"body":"the extremes and you don't have like"},{"startTime":1453.554,"endTime":1457.484,"body":"really strong goals in one direction or"},{"startTime":1457.484,"endTime":1462.834,"body":"the other, endurance or strength training,"},{"startTime":1457.484,"endTime":1462.834,"body":"that you can get 95 % plus of the benefits"},{"startTime":1462.834,"endTime":1466.714,"body":"of each by doing them together in kind of"},{"startTime":1462.834,"endTime":1466.714,"body":"an intelligent manner."},{"startTime":1466.714,"endTime":1472.864,"body":"And so I also know that there are benefits"},{"startTime":1466.714,"endTime":1472.864,"body":"of doing cardio that can actually enhance"},{"startTime":1472.864,"endTime":1475.234,"body":"your strength training or your physique"},{"startTime":1472.864,"endTime":1475.234,"body":"pursuit."},{"startTime":1475.234,"endTime":1478.624,"body":"So can you briefly touch on kind of some"},{"startTime":1475.234,"endTime":1478.624,"body":"of those benefits as well that people may"},{"startTime":1478.624,"endTime":1482.288,"body":"experience if they start adding cardio"},{"startTime":1478.624,"endTime":1482.288,"body":"into their strength training routines?"},{"startTime":1482.87,"endTime":1486.63,"body":"Yeah, and that's the main way I sell it to"},{"startTime":1482.87,"endTime":1486.63,"body":"people because a lot of the people I work"},{"startTime":1486.63,"endTime":1491.4,"body":"with come in and they're like, Hey, I,"},{"startTime":1486.63,"endTime":1491.4,"body":"everything's going good, but I can only"},{"startTime":1491.4,"endTime":1492.58,"body":"train like three days a week."},{"startTime":1492.58,"endTime":1493.33,"body":"I love training."},{"startTime":1493.33,"endTime":1495.55,"body":"I want to get better, you know?"},{"startTime":1495.55,"endTime":1499.82,"body":"And at some point we could argue about"},{"startTime":1495.55,"endTime":1499.82,"body":"hypertrophy mechanisms and everything"},{"startTime":1499.82,"endTime":1500.71,"body":"else."},{"startTime":1500.71,"endTime":1505.302,"body":"My bias is you just need to do more high"},{"startTime":1500.71,"endTime":1505.302,"body":"quality work up to a point."},{"startTime":1505.302,"endTime":1509.092,"body":"Like if you're only training two days a"},{"startTime":1505.302,"endTime":1509.092,"body":"week or three days a week for 45 minutes"},{"startTime":1509.092,"endTime":1512.432,"body":"and you're relatively in shape, you've"},{"startTime":1509.092,"endTime":1512.432,"body":"been doing this for a while, you're not a"},{"startTime":1512.432,"endTime":1513.342,"body":"newbie."},{"startTime":1513.622,"endTime":1518.712,"body":"I think if you could train four sessions,"},{"startTime":1513.622,"endTime":1518.712,"body":"five sessions, as long as you can maintain"},{"startTime":1518.712,"endTime":1521.802,"body":"that high quality work, you're going to"},{"startTime":1518.712,"endTime":1521.802,"body":"get a better result."},{"startTime":1521.802,"endTime":1524.062,"body":"Is it going to be astronomically better?"},{"startTime":1524.742,"endTime":1527.922,"body":"You're definitely on that flattening part"},{"startTime":1524.742,"endTime":1527.922,"body":"of the curve."},{"startTime":1527.922,"endTime":1531.822,"body":"And most of the time, I think they're"},{"startTime":1527.922,"endTime":1531.822,"body":"limited by their aerobic ability."},{"startTime":1531.822,"endTime":1534.064,"body":"So if you think about in the gym,"},{"startTime":1534.262,"endTime":1538.372,"body":"You go in and do a session like you do a"},{"startTime":1534.262,"endTime":1538.372,"body":"hard session of deadlifts and you're kind"},{"startTime":1538.372,"endTime":1539.982,"body":"of a little bit out of breath."},{"startTime":1540.002,"endTime":1544.502,"body":"That recovery period is primarily an"},{"startTime":1540.002,"endTime":1544.502,"body":"aerobic event."},{"startTime":1544.502,"endTime":1546.542,"body":"You're primarily using more fat for fuel."},{"startTime":1546.542,"endTime":1550.082,"body":"You're primarily trying to get oxygen into"},{"startTime":1546.542,"endTime":1550.082,"body":"the fibers themselves."},{"startTime":1550.082,"endTime":1554.962,"body":"You're running your aerobic system to"},{"startTime":1550.082,"endTime":1554.962,"body":"replenish the ATP, the energy that you"},{"startTime":1554.962,"endTime":1557.722,"body":"spent doing that air quotes anaerobic"},{"startTime":1554.962,"endTime":1557.722,"body":"event."},{"startTime":1557.722,"endTime":1560.112,"body":"There is no real true anaerobic or"},{"startTime":1557.722,"endTime":1560.112,"body":"aerobic."},{"startTime":1560.112,"endTime":1562.234,"body":"It just makes for an easier explanation."},{"startTime":1562.486,"endTime":1565.846,"body":"And what I find with a lot of these people"},{"startTime":1562.486,"endTime":1565.846,"body":"is if we have them rest just based on"},{"startTime":1565.846,"endTime":1570.456,"body":"heart rate, which is an okay method, it"},{"startTime":1565.846,"endTime":1570.456,"body":"may take them three to five minutes for"},{"startTime":1570.456,"endTime":1573.706,"body":"their heart rate to get back down before"},{"startTime":1570.456,"endTime":1573.706,"body":"they can do another set."},{"startTime":1573.706,"endTime":1578.366,"body":"So if we could reduce that to say two or"},{"startTime":1573.706,"endTime":1578.366,"body":"three minutes or even a minute and a half,"},{"startTime":1578.526,"endTime":1581.026,"body":"that's their aerobic system is primarily"},{"startTime":1578.526,"endTime":1581.026,"body":"that limiter."},{"startTime":1581.026,"endTime":1585.166,"body":"So one, their density of what they can do"},{"startTime":1581.026,"endTime":1585.166,"body":"for training usually goes up by quite a"},{"startTime":1585.166,"endTime":1585.746,"body":"bit."},{"startTime":1585.746,"endTime":1587.966,"body":"So that also then saves them time."},{"startTime":1587.966,"endTime":1590.524,"body":"I got that clients where we equated out."},{"startTime":1590.838,"endTime":1595.248,"body":"the amount of time they were spending"},{"startTime":1590.838,"endTime":1595.248,"body":"before and after doing cardio, like"},{"startTime":1595.248,"endTime":1598.898,"body":"literally it came out to the same amount"},{"startTime":1595.248,"endTime":1598.898,"body":"of time per week, because we could push"},{"startTime":1598.898,"endTime":1603.018,"body":"the density of their training better and"},{"startTime":1598.898,"endTime":1603.018,"body":"they still were doing some aerobic stuff"},{"startTime":1603.018,"endTime":1604.378,"body":"on the other days."},{"startTime":1604.378,"endTime":1609.318,"body":"And then if you extend that out to day to"},{"startTime":1604.378,"endTime":1609.318,"body":"day recovery, what is one of the limiters"},{"startTime":1609.318,"endTime":1610.678,"body":"of day to day recovery?"},{"startTime":1610.678,"endTime":1613.098,"body":"Again, shocker, it's your aerobic system."},{"startTime":1613.098,"endTime":1615.998,"body":"Like we're just sitting there hanging out"},{"startTime":1613.098,"endTime":1615.998,"body":"having this discussion."},{"startTime":1615.998,"endTime":1619.854,"body":"It's primarily your aerobic system that's"},{"startTime":1615.998,"endTime":1619.854,"body":"actually producing the ATP."},{"startTime":1620.182,"endTime":1623.882,"body":"The example I use for clients is that I"},{"startTime":1620.182,"endTime":1623.882,"body":"sound old now because nobody remembers"},{"startTime":1623.882,"endTime":1626.602,"body":"like the little three cylinder you go cars"},{"startTime":1623.882,"endTime":1626.602,"body":"they had for a while."},{"startTime":1626.602,"endTime":1627.382,"body":"Maybe you guys do."},{"startTime":1627.382,"endTime":1628.312,"body":"Maybe not."},{"startTime":1628.312,"endTime":1632.792,"body":"So I equate to them like, hey, if you're"},{"startTime":1628.312,"endTime":1632.792,"body":"trying to drive around a little three"},{"startTime":1632.792,"endTime":1634.402,"body":"cylinder you go all the time."},{"startTime":1634.402,"endTime":1637.182,"body":"Yeah, you can redline it and get to the"},{"startTime":1634.402,"endTime":1637.182,"body":"grocery store faster."},{"startTime":1637.182,"endTime":1640.742,"body":"But the cost to do that is going to be"},{"startTime":1637.182,"endTime":1640.742,"body":"pretty high."},{"startTime":1640.742,"endTime":1645.326,"body":"If you've got a fancy Lamborghini, it's a"},{"startTime":1640.742,"endTime":1645.326,"body":"V10, V12, whatever."},{"startTime":1645.6,"endTime":1649.81,"body":"You can get to the store really fast, but"},{"startTime":1645.6,"endTime":1649.81,"body":"the cost that exerted upon that engine is"},{"startTime":1649.81,"endTime":1651.01,"body":"very minimal."},{"startTime":1651.01,"endTime":1651.34,"body":"Why?"},{"startTime":1651.34,"endTime":1652.77,"body":"Because you have a massive engine."},{"startTime":1652.77,"endTime":1657.53,"body":"So you are literally walking around like"},{"startTime":1652.77,"endTime":1657.53,"body":"sub max of everything else."},{"startTime":1657.81,"endTime":1659.99,"body":"Another test is like the NFL combine test."},{"startTime":1659.99,"endTime":1663.49,"body":"So do 225 bench press as many reps as you"},{"startTime":1659.99,"endTime":1663.49,"body":"can."},{"startTime":1663.89,"endTime":1670.47,"body":"If your max one RM for bench press is 245"},{"startTime":1663.89,"endTime":1670.47,"body":"versus Bob, who's like 405, I don't put my"},{"startTime":1670.47,"endTime":1672.438,"body":"money on Bob like all day."},{"startTime":1672.438,"endTime":1672.878,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1672.878,"endTime":1679.558,"body":"Because 225, if your max is 405 is way sub"},{"startTime":1672.878,"endTime":1679.558,"body":"max than if your max is 245."},{"startTime":1679.558,"endTime":1685.038,"body":"So if your VO2 max you're walking around"},{"startTime":1679.558,"endTime":1685.038,"body":"is 25, like everything you're doing is a"},{"startTime":1685.038,"endTime":1687.578,"body":"much higher percentage of that."},{"startTime":1687.578,"endTime":1690.868,"body":"So your background stress that's taken"},{"startTime":1687.578,"endTime":1690.868,"body":"away from your ability to recover is"},{"startTime":1690.868,"endTime":1691.618,"body":"higher."},{"startTime":1691.618,"endTime":1697.398,"body":"If your VO2 max is 50, now that's way sub"},{"startTime":1691.618,"endTime":1697.398,"body":"max, like doing everything else, it's much"},{"startTime":1697.398,"endTime":1699.83,"body":"easier for your body to recover."},{"startTime":1699.83,"endTime":1703.85,"body":"Last part is most people generally report"},{"startTime":1699.83,"endTime":1703.85,"body":"that their energy feels a lot better."},{"startTime":1703.85,"endTime":1706.69,"body":"And if we look at their heart rate"},{"startTime":1703.85,"endTime":1706.69,"body":"variability, we look at other markers of"},{"startTime":1706.69,"endTime":1712.05,"body":"stress, they can handle a lot more insults"},{"startTime":1706.69,"endTime":1712.05,"body":"in different areas and get back to"},{"startTime":1712.05,"endTime":1715.63,"body":"baseline faster or their recovery is a lot"},{"startTime":1712.05,"endTime":1715.63,"body":"better."},{"startTime":1715.63,"endTime":1718.59,"body":"So usually when people talk about"},{"startTime":1715.63,"endTime":1718.59,"body":"recovery, they talk about great things"},{"startTime":1718.59,"endTime":1722.46,"body":"with nutrition and sleep and stress"},{"startTime":1718.59,"endTime":1722.46,"body":"reduction and maybe cold baths and sauna"},{"startTime":1722.46,"endTime":1724.23,"body":"and everything else, which is cool."},{"startTime":1724.23,"endTime":1726.262,"body":"But I think the big limiter they miss is,"},{"startTime":1726.262,"endTime":1732.692,"body":"Again, if your VO2 max is 25, you know,"},{"startTime":1726.262,"endTime":1732.692,"body":"like a field mouse, to me though, a lot of"},{"startTime":1732.692,"endTime":1734.502,"body":"those things are just like icing on the"},{"startTime":1732.692,"endTime":1734.502,"body":"cake."},{"startTime":1734.502,"endTime":1738.002,"body":"Like you just need to build a bigger"},{"startTime":1734.502,"endTime":1738.002,"body":"engine first."},{"startTime":1738.002,"endTime":1739.262,"body":"Yeah, do all those other things."},{"startTime":1739.262,"endTime":1743.262,"body":"It's helpful, but that by far and away a"},{"startTime":1739.262,"endTime":1743.262,"body":"lot of times is your rate limiter."},{"startTime":1743.262,"endTime":1747.742,"body":"Once you get that up, then everything else"},{"startTime":1743.262,"endTime":1747.742,"body":"is more sub max, just like lifting."},{"startTime":1747.742,"endTime":1751.582,"body":"You know, at some point, even if"},{"startTime":1747.742,"endTime":1751.582,"body":"hypertrophy is your only goal, like, you"},{"startTime":1751.582,"endTime":1755.254,"body":"know, again, a lot of the natural guys I"},{"startTime":1751.582,"endTime":1755.254,"body":"know, they're all pretty damn strong."},{"startTime":1755.254,"endTime":1758.314,"body":"Like are they as strong as, you know,"},{"startTime":1755.254,"endTime":1758.314,"body":"power lifters?"},{"startTime":1758.314,"endTime":1758.934,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1758.934,"endTime":1761.214,"body":"Like compared to most people, they're"},{"startTime":1758.934,"endTime":1761.214,"body":"pretty strong."},{"startTime":1761.214,"endTime":1765.234,"body":"But at some point getting stronger will"},{"startTime":1761.214,"endTime":1765.234,"body":"allow you to do more reps at a higher"},{"startTime":1765.234,"endTime":1769.844,"body":"weight, which again will allow you to stay"},{"startTime":1765.234,"endTime":1769.844,"body":"in more of that hypertrophy specific zone,"},{"startTime":1769.844,"endTime":1772.376,"body":"which is a massive zone at this point."},{"startTime":1773.122,"endTime":1773.962,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1773.962,"endTime":1777.462,"body":"So it sounds like with better"},{"startTime":1773.962,"endTime":1777.462,"body":"cardiovascular conditioning or aerobic"},{"startTime":1777.462,"endTime":1782.902,"body":"fitness, you're kind of walking around day"},{"startTime":1777.462,"endTime":1782.902,"body":"to day with a more parasympathetic state,"},{"startTime":1782.902,"endTime":1788.222,"body":"which allows your body to facilitate"},{"startTime":1782.902,"endTime":1788.222,"body":"recovery and adaptation in a more"},{"startTime":1788.222,"endTime":1792.614,"body":"streamlined manner than it would if you're"},{"startTime":1788.222,"endTime":1792.614,"body":"not as aerobically fit."},{"startTime":1792.756,"endTime":1793.306,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1793.306,"endTime":1797.076,"body":"And the last part, which the literature"},{"startTime":1793.306,"endTime":1797.076,"body":"goes back and forth on this, but I think"},{"startTime":1797.076,"endTime":1798.806,"body":"it probably is a real event."},{"startTime":1799.066,"endTime":1801.446,"body":"There is some benefit to capitalization."},{"startTime":1801.446,"endTime":1806.886,"body":"So just, just changing the architecture of"},{"startTime":1801.446,"endTime":1806.886,"body":"the muscle to get more blood flow to it."},{"startTime":1806.886,"endTime":1811.926,"body":"If you look at a lot of the old school,"},{"startTime":1806.886,"endTime":1811.926,"body":"like Russian stuff on recovery, pretty"},{"startTime":1811.926,"endTime":1814.266,"body":"much all of us blood flow based, like what"},{"startTime":1811.926,"endTime":1814.266,"body":"are you doing?"},{"startTime":1814.266,"endTime":1819.226,"body":"Contrast therapy, sauna, walking, moving,"},{"startTime":1814.266,"endTime":1819.226,"body":"Normatec boots, whatever."},{"startTime":1819.226,"endTime":1822.614,"body":"Almost all of it is just based on getting"},{"startTime":1819.226,"endTime":1822.614,"body":"more blood flow to the muscle."},{"startTime":1822.614,"endTime":1826.804,"body":"So if you can have more blood flow there,"},{"startTime":1822.614,"endTime":1826.804,"body":"you can literally create more vessels and"},{"startTime":1826.804,"endTime":1828.714,"body":"structure to the muscle."},{"startTime":1828.714,"endTime":1830.474,"body":"I think that's going to be a benefit."},{"startTime":1830.474,"endTime":1831.554,"body":"Like when does that happen?"},{"startTime":1831.554,"endTime":1832.994,"body":"How often does it happen?"},{"startTime":1832.994,"endTime":1834.454,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1834.454,"endTime":1839.344,"body":"Literature is all up in the air, but I"},{"startTime":1834.454,"endTime":1839.344,"body":"have seen when people start doing aerobic"},{"startTime":1839.344,"endTime":1844.454,"body":"stuff, this big inflection point at about"},{"startTime":1839.344,"endTime":1844.454,"body":"six to eight weeks."},{"startTime":1844.454,"endTime":1847.124,"body":"Like you won't see a lot of movement like,"},{"startTime":1844.454,"endTime":1847.124,"body":"eh, eh, eh."},{"startTime":1847.124,"endTime":1849.854,"body":"And then like the run the week seven,"},{"startTime":1847.124,"endTime":1849.854,"body":"they're like, man, I don't know."},{"startTime":1849.854,"endTime":1851.094,"body":"I just feel better."},{"startTime":1851.094,"endTime":1852.754,"body":"Like everything's moving better."},{"startTime":1852.754,"endTime":1856.014,"body":"Like there just seems to be this weird"},{"startTime":1852.754,"endTime":1856.014,"body":"uptick."},{"startTime":1856.014,"endTime":1860.364,"body":"And I can't find the study, which I could"},{"startTime":1856.014,"endTime":1860.364,"body":"have completely made it up that there was"},{"startTime":1860.364,"endTime":1865.134,"body":"some old Russian research that showed that"},{"startTime":1860.364,"endTime":1865.134,"body":"the blood vessels grow from opposite ends"},{"startTime":1865.134,"endTime":1868.794,"body":"and that around the six to seven week"},{"startTime":1865.134,"endTime":1868.794,"body":"mark, they sort of meet up."},{"startTime":1868.794,"endTime":1872.694,"body":"And then you have this increased"},{"startTime":1868.794,"endTime":1872.694,"body":"exponential in blood flow."},{"startTime":1872.694,"endTime":1874.024,"body":"Again, I can't find that study."},{"startTime":1874.024,"endTime":1875.974,"body":"I could have completely made the entire"},{"startTime":1874.024,"endTime":1875.974,"body":"thing up."},{"startTime":1875.974,"endTime":1877.184,"body":"It's been bugging the crap out of me."},{"startTime":1877.184,"endTime":1879.69,"body":"So if anyone finds that study, please send"},{"startTime":1877.184,"endTime":1879.69,"body":"it to me."},{"startTime":1879.702,"endTime":1883.652,"body":"But it kind of makes sense, at least"},{"startTime":1879.702,"endTime":1883.652,"body":"mechanistically, what we see at that"},{"startTime":1883.652,"endTime":1885.062,"body":"point."},{"startTime":1885.962,"endTime":1888.762,"body":"It's sometimes hard to get people to that."},{"startTime":1888.762,"endTime":1893.062,"body":"So like, hey man, I'm doing all this work"},{"startTime":1888.762,"endTime":1893.062,"body":"and I don't know, I just don't feel that"},{"startTime":1893.062,"endTime":1893.862,"body":"much better."},{"startTime":1893.862,"endTime":1896.282,"body":"But it's like anything else, like"},{"startTime":1893.862,"endTime":1896.282,"body":"hypertrophy."},{"startTime":1896.282,"endTime":1898.552,"body":"Like nobody even, you know, people have"},{"startTime":1896.282,"endTime":1898.552,"body":"been training for a while, you don't go to"},{"startTime":1898.552,"endTime":1901.922,"body":"the gym and start doing more bicep curls"},{"startTime":1898.552,"endTime":1901.922,"body":"and go like, hey, week three, my biceps an"},{"startTime":1901.922,"endTime":1902.582,"body":"inch up."},{"startTime":1902.582,"endTime":1905.676,"body":"It just, you know, physiology doesn't move"},{"startTime":1902.582,"endTime":1905.676,"body":"that fast."},{"startTime":1906.338,"endTime":1908.258,"body":"Yeah, cool."},{"startTime":1908.438,"endTime":1912.11,"body":"Aaron, anything before I shift the"},{"startTime":1908.438,"endTime":1912.11,"body":"conversation here to VO2 Mac stuff?"},{"startTime":1912.642,"endTime":1917.312,"body":"No, I just, I think for the listener out"},{"startTime":1912.642,"endTime":1917.312,"body":"there and for myself as well, that was a"},{"startTime":1917.312,"endTime":1922.802,"body":"very, very profound kind of segment that I"},{"startTime":1917.312,"endTime":1922.802,"body":"hope people don't kind of like skip over"},{"startTime":1922.802,"endTime":1928.732,"body":"the fact that like as your VO2 max is"},{"startTime":1922.802,"endTime":1928.732,"body":"higher, like everything else you do is"},{"startTime":1928.732,"endTime":1931.062,"body":"then less taxing on your body."},{"startTime":1931.062,"endTime":1935.582,"body":"And what I think's really funny, Mike, is"},{"startTime":1931.062,"endTime":1935.582,"body":"you use that example of like the three"},{"startTime":1935.582,"endTime":1941.052,"body":"cylinder car, you know, going to the"},{"startTime":1935.582,"endTime":1941.052,"body":"grocery store versus a Lamborghini back in"},{"startTime":1941.052,"endTime":1942.626,"body":"like the, you know,"},{"startTime":1942.626,"endTime":1946.096,"body":"literally dead smacking COVID where all"},{"startTime":1942.626,"endTime":1946.096,"body":"the like rental cars were places were out"},{"startTime":1946.096,"endTime":1947.526,"body":"of cars and stuff."},{"startTime":1947.766,"endTime":1950.946,"body":"I ended up with a literally a three"},{"startTime":1947.766,"endTime":1950.946,"body":"cylinder."},{"startTime":1950.946,"endTime":1951.926,"body":"I don't even remember what it was."},{"startTime":1951.926,"endTime":1956.206,"body":"It was like a go -kart sized car and we"},{"startTime":1951.926,"endTime":1956.206,"body":"were living in Salt Lake City at the time."},{"startTime":1956.806,"endTime":1958.426,"body":"Oh my God, it was so small."},{"startTime":1958.426,"endTime":1961.006,"body":"And we took it up into the mountains"},{"startTime":1958.426,"endTime":1961.006,"body":"because we'd go up into the mountains"},{"startTime":1961.006,"endTime":1961.356,"body":"hiking."},{"startTime":1961.356,"endTime":1965.726,"body":"And because the engine was like so small"},{"startTime":1961.356,"endTime":1965.726,"body":"and we were like up in the mountains, I"},{"startTime":1965.726,"endTime":1968.456,"body":"literally had to like redline it to just"},{"startTime":1965.726,"endTime":1968.456,"body":"to get up the road."},{"startTime":1968.456,"endTime":1971.746,"body":"And I burned an entire tank of gas."},{"startTime":1971.746,"endTime":1975.186,"body":"just going from like literally 20 minutes"},{"startTime":1971.746,"endTime":1975.186,"body":"to the top of the mountain."},{"startTime":1975.186,"endTime":1977.966,"body":"And then I was panicked because I thought"},{"startTime":1975.186,"endTime":1977.966,"body":"I was gonna run out of gas because of the"},{"startTime":1977.966,"endTime":1981.016,"body":"gas I was on, I had to coast all the way"},{"startTime":1977.966,"endTime":1981.016,"body":"back down, but it was like, it was such a"},{"startTime":1981.016,"endTime":1981.846,"body":"perfect example."},{"startTime":1981.846,"endTime":1986.626,"body":"Like because the car's capability was so"},{"startTime":1981.846,"endTime":1986.626,"body":"low, I had to push it so hard."},{"startTime":1986.626,"endTime":1991.514,"body":"I literally smoked an entire tank of gas"},{"startTime":1986.626,"endTime":1991.514,"body":"just driving up the mountain."},{"startTime":1992.406,"endTime":1996.746,"body":"Yeah, we had a similar situation going to"},{"startTime":1992.406,"endTime":1996.746,"body":"my buddy, Dr."},{"startTime":1996.746,"endTime":2001.156,"body":"Ben House's place at Flow Retreat Center"},{"startTime":1996.746,"endTime":2001.156,"body":"in Costa Rica, where we put five rather"},{"startTime":2001.156,"endTime":2003.626,"body":"large mammals in this small vehicle."},{"startTime":2003.626,"endTime":2005.676,"body":"And this was before he had his place"},{"startTime":2003.626,"endTime":2005.676,"body":"there."},{"startTime":2005.676,"endTime":2007.086,"body":"So it was a different place."},{"startTime":2007.086,"endTime":2010.166,"body":"Same thing all the way at the top of this,"},{"startTime":2007.086,"endTime":2010.166,"body":"you know, big mountain."},{"startTime":2010.166,"endTime":2013.746,"body":"And so I'm driving and they're like, why"},{"startTime":2010.166,"endTime":2013.746,"body":"are you going so slow?"},{"startTime":2013.746,"endTime":2015.346,"body":"And we're doing like 25 miles an hour."},{"startTime":2015.346,"endTime":2018.166,"body":"I'm like, I have this thing floored."},{"startTime":2018.166,"endTime":2020.886,"body":"And it's like, it's like."},{"startTime":2021.826,"endTime":2025.806,"body":"That's awesome."},{"startTime":2025.966,"endTime":2027.146,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"startTime":2027.146,"endTime":2033.146,"body":"So jumping into quick section here on"},{"startTime":2027.146,"endTime":2033.146,"body":"VO2Max and the training around VO2Max."},{"startTime":2033.146,"endTime":2038.486,"body":"So I assume you're familiar with Steven"},{"startTime":2033.146,"endTime":2038.486,"body":"Seiler and some of his research."},{"startTime":2038.486,"endTime":2040.166,"body":"Do you know this guy out of Norway?"},{"startTime":2040.166,"endTime":2040.946,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2040.946,"endTime":2043.466,"body":"So Steven, I've followed a lot of his"},{"startTime":2040.946,"endTime":2043.466,"body":"work."},{"startTime":2043.466,"endTime":2045.186,"body":"He's done a lot of..."},{"startTime":2045.186,"endTime":2050.156,"body":"Yeah, he's done a lot of work comparing"},{"startTime":2045.186,"endTime":2050.156,"body":"four minute intervals to eight minute"},{"startTime":2050.156,"endTime":2052.166,"body":"intervals to 16 minute intervals."},{"startTime":2052.166,"endTime":2054.866,"body":"He has a few studies that actually do"},{"startTime":2052.166,"endTime":2054.866,"body":"this."},{"startTime":2054.866,"endTime":2062.306,"body":"And so there was one here, adaptations to"},{"startTime":2054.866,"endTime":2062.306,"body":"aerobic interval training, interactive"},{"startTime":2062.306,"endTime":2065.266,"body":"effects of exercise intensity and total"},{"startTime":2062.306,"endTime":2065.266,"body":"work duration."},{"startTime":2065.266,"endTime":2068.486,"body":"And we have a pub med link for that that"},{"startTime":2065.266,"endTime":2068.486,"body":"we'll drop into the notes."},{"startTime":2069.0860000000002,"endTime":2071.62,"body":"The conclusion of the paper basically"},{"startTime":2069.0860000000002,"endTime":2071.62,"body":"stated,"},{"startTime":2071.874,"endTime":2076.854,"body":"that the four by eight intervals were more"},{"startTime":2071.874,"endTime":2076.854,"body":"effective than the four by 16 or the four"},{"startTime":2076.854,"endTime":2082.974,"body":"by fours, which I think is in contrast to"},{"startTime":2076.854,"endTime":2082.974,"body":"what most people think of as the four by"},{"startTime":2082.974,"endTime":2089.054,"body":"four as like the premier interval to be"},{"startTime":2082.974,"endTime":2089.054,"body":"used for increasing VO2 max."},{"startTime":2089.054,"endTime":2096.434,"body":"And his hypothesis was that accumulating"},{"startTime":2089.054,"endTime":2096.434,"body":"32 minutes of work at 90 % of max heart"},{"startTime":2096.434,"endTime":2098.356,"body":"rate induced greater at a."},{"startTime":2098.356,"endTime":2103.456,"body":"adaptive gains than accumulating 16"},{"startTime":2098.356,"endTime":2103.456,"body":"minutes of work at 95 % of heart rate"},{"startTime":2103.456,"endTime":2105.646,"body":"despite lower RPE."},{"startTime":2105.646,"endTime":2108.266,"body":"And then the 16 minute intervals were at"},{"startTime":2105.646,"endTime":2108.266,"body":"85%."},{"startTime":2108.266,"endTime":2113.786,"body":"So it was 85 % for 16 minutes, 90 % for"},{"startTime":2108.266,"endTime":2113.786,"body":"the eight minute intervals or 95 % for the"},{"startTime":2113.786,"endTime":2114.566,"body":"four minute intervals."},{"startTime":2114.566,"endTime":2118.846,"body":"And of course the four minute intervals"},{"startTime":2114.566,"endTime":2118.846,"body":"only allowed 16 minutes of time in zone,"},{"startTime":2118.846,"endTime":2123.536,"body":"then 32 minutes of time in zone for the"},{"startTime":2118.846,"endTime":2123.536,"body":"eight minute intervals and an hour and"},{"startTime":2123.536,"endTime":2127.49,"body":"four minutes of time in zone for the 16"},{"startTime":2123.536,"endTime":2127.49,"body":"minute intervals."},{"startTime":2127.49,"endTime":2133.21,"body":"They were all effective at increasing VO2"},{"startTime":2127.49,"endTime":2133.21,"body":"max, but specifically the four by eights"},{"startTime":2133.21,"endTime":2134.85,"body":"appeared to be the most effective."},{"startTime":2134.85,"endTime":2138.81,"body":"And so I found that interesting just"},{"startTime":2134.85,"endTime":2138.81,"body":"because the four by four seems to be the"},{"startTime":2138.81,"endTime":2142.48,"body":"most popular one that people like Peter"},{"startTime":2138.81,"endTime":2142.48,"body":"Attia and others are promoting as, you"},{"startTime":2142.48,"endTime":2144.75,"body":"know, do this for VO2 max."},{"startTime":2145.51,"endTime":2149.61,"body":"I think it was a Norwegian, they call them"},{"startTime":2145.51,"endTime":2149.61,"body":"the Norwegian four by four or something"},{"startTime":2149.61,"endTime":2150.57,"body":"like that."},{"startTime":2150.57,"endTime":2154.22,"body":"But then the other thing that I've noticed"},{"startTime":2150.57,"endTime":2154.22,"body":"throughout reading research is that"},{"startTime":2154.22,"endTime":2156.866,"body":"there's also a lot of studies showing"},{"startTime":2154.22,"endTime":2156.866,"body":"that,"},{"startTime":2156.866,"endTime":2163.846,"body":"things like Tabata's or 3030s or 6060s and"},{"startTime":2156.866,"endTime":2163.846,"body":"these other like significantly shorter"},{"startTime":2163.846,"endTime":2168.646,"body":"intervals are also very effective for VO2"},{"startTime":2163.846,"endTime":2168.646,"body":"max."},{"startTime":2169.526,"endTime":2171.566,"body":"So what are your thoughts on that?"},{"startTime":2171.566,"endTime":2175.396,"body":"How do we make sense of all these"},{"startTime":2171.566,"endTime":2175.396,"body":"different ways that you can go about kind"},{"startTime":2175.396,"endTime":2177.308,"body":"of increasing your VO2 max?"},{"startTime":2178.166,"endTime":2178.526,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2178.526,"endTime":2183.496,"body":"So one of the misnomers of VO2 max is that"},{"startTime":2178.526,"endTime":2183.496,"body":"people think you just do any cardio and"},{"startTime":2183.496,"endTime":2184.676,"body":"your VO2 max goes up."},{"startTime":2184.676,"endTime":2188.366,"body":"Like, yeah, if you're untrained and your"},{"startTime":2184.676,"endTime":2188.366,"body":"VO2 max is horrible, sure, anything will"},{"startTime":2188.366,"endTime":2188.596,"body":"work."},{"startTime":2188.596,"endTime":2188.786,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2188.786,"endTime":2191.206,"body":"So newbies can lift soup cans, probably"},{"startTime":2188.786,"endTime":2191.206,"body":"get bigger, right."},{"startTime":2191.206,"endTime":2193.796,"body":"But at some point that's going to max out"},{"startTime":2191.206,"endTime":2193.796,"body":"pretty fast."},{"startTime":2193.796,"endTime":2199.046,"body":"So once we get beyond that, you need to"},{"startTime":2193.796,"endTime":2199.046,"body":"be, in my experience and looking at the"},{"startTime":2199.046,"endTime":2203.876,"body":"literature, probably relatively intense,"},{"startTime":2199.046,"endTime":2203.876,"body":"like what percentage of heart rate,"},{"startTime":2203.876,"endTime":2205.53,"body":"there's other ways to market."},{"startTime":2206.298,"endTime":2210.158,"body":"85, 90 -ish percent, you know, somewhere"},{"startTime":2206.298,"endTime":2210.158,"body":"around there."},{"startTime":2210.158,"endTime":2215.858,"body":"So I equated to, if you want to get"},{"startTime":2210.158,"endTime":2215.858,"body":"significantly stronger, you probably need"},{"startTime":2215.858,"endTime":2218.688,"body":"to do a fair amount of lifting above 85%,"},{"startTime":2215.858,"endTime":2218.688,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":2218.688,"endTime":2220.808,"body":"You probably need to do those low rep"},{"startTime":2218.688,"endTime":2220.808,"body":"stuff."},{"startTime":2220.808,"endTime":2223.758,"body":"You need to put some heavy weight on the"},{"startTime":2220.808,"endTime":2223.758,"body":"bar in order to get stronger."},{"startTime":2223.758,"endTime":2226.458,"body":"So with VO2Max, I equated it to the same"},{"startTime":2223.758,"endTime":2226.458,"body":"way."},{"startTime":2226.458,"endTime":2230.598,"body":"You think of VO2Max like the 1RM for your"},{"startTime":2226.458,"endTime":2230.598,"body":"aerobic system."},{"startTime":2230.798,"endTime":2234.226,"body":"In shocker, the same principle holds"},{"startTime":2230.798,"endTime":2234.226,"body":"pretty true."},{"startTime":2234.39,"endTime":2236.95,"body":"Now, how much time do you need to spend"},{"startTime":2234.39,"endTime":2236.95,"body":"there?"},{"startTime":2236.95,"endTime":2240.14,"body":"Oof, that's all across the board, right?"},{"startTime":2240.14,"endTime":2245.9,"body":"So in that study, which is cool, I wonder"},{"startTime":2240.14,"endTime":2245.9,"body":"if it is as much the effect of intensity"},{"startTime":2245.9,"endTime":2249.39,"body":"versus the, like you said, the time in"},{"startTime":2245.9,"endTime":2249.39,"body":"that area."},{"startTime":2249.39,"endTime":2254.29,"body":"And what I find is that it's generally the"},{"startTime":2249.39,"endTime":2254.29,"body":"amount of time you can accumulate in that"},{"startTime":2254.29,"endTime":2254.87,"body":"area."},{"startTime":2254.87,"endTime":2259.21,"body":"So just like lifting, like how much high"},{"startTime":2254.87,"endTime":2259.21,"body":"quality work can you do?"},{"startTime":2259.21,"endTime":2261.59,"body":"And the biggest mistake I see people make"},{"startTime":2259.21,"endTime":2261.59,"body":"is,"},{"startTime":2261.59,"endTime":2263.69,"body":"They just, you know, went out super hard."},{"startTime":2263.69,"endTime":2265.84,"body":"Ah, let my nuts suck on fire."},{"startTime":2265.84,"endTime":2266.94,"body":"I did these two intervals."},{"startTime":2266.94,"endTime":2267.35,"body":"Woohoo."},{"startTime":2267.35,"endTime":2267.93,"body":"Look at me."},{"startTime":2267.93,"endTime":2269.87,"body":"My VO2 max is going to be amazing."},{"startTime":2269.87,"endTime":2273.26,"body":"Maybe not like you need to accumulate more"},{"startTime":2269.87,"endTime":2273.26,"body":"work."},{"startTime":2273.26,"endTime":2278.86,"body":"And then also if we look at the output of"},{"startTime":2273.26,"endTime":2278.86,"body":"let's say interval one versus interval"},{"startTime":2278.86,"endTime":2284.43,"body":"six, if interval six is like 30 % of your"},{"startTime":2278.86,"endTime":2284.43,"body":"first interval, like you're not training"},{"startTime":2284.43,"endTime":2285.96,"body":"the same thing, right?"},{"startTime":2285.96,"endTime":2290.01,"body":"A lot of people want to do these repeats"},{"startTime":2285.96,"endTime":2290.01,"body":"that are very, very difficult with"},{"startTime":2290.01,"endTime":2291.574,"body":"incomplete rest."},{"startTime":2291.574,"endTime":2295.314,"body":"but they're not really recovered back to"},{"startTime":2291.574,"endTime":2295.314,"body":"baseline again to start."},{"startTime":2295.554,"endTime":2299.444,"body":"And if you look at the quality of the"},{"startTime":2295.554,"endTime":2299.444,"body":"output, it just tanks, right?"},{"startTime":2299.444,"endTime":2302.734,"body":"So now you're not working that specific"},{"startTime":2299.444,"endTime":2302.734,"body":"thing that you want."},{"startTime":2302.734,"endTime":2306.534,"body":"So when I start programming for people,"},{"startTime":2302.734,"endTime":2306.534,"body":"depending on what their level is, a lot of"},{"startTime":2306.534,"endTime":2308.714,"body":"times I do almost complete rest."},{"startTime":2308.714,"endTime":2311.874,"body":"Like let's hit two minutes or three"},{"startTime":2308.714,"endTime":2311.874,"body":"minutes or four minutes or five minutes or"},{"startTime":2311.874,"endTime":2312.754,"body":"six minutes."},{"startTime":2312.754,"endTime":2315.114,"body":"And we know what percentage you need to"},{"startTime":2312.754,"endTime":2315.114,"body":"be."},{"startTime":2315.114,"endTime":2319.654,"body":"We need some output on a bike, maybe"},{"startTime":2315.114,"endTime":2319.654,"body":"running, we can get GPS, the rower."},{"startTime":2319.798,"endTime":2321.758,"body":"And then you're going to rest almost"},{"startTime":2319.798,"endTime":2321.758,"body":"completely."},{"startTime":2321.758,"endTime":2324.758,"body":"We're let your heart rate come down"},{"startTime":2321.758,"endTime":2324.758,"body":"probably below a hundred."},{"startTime":2324.758,"endTime":2326.418,"body":"And then you're going to go again."},{"startTime":2326.418,"endTime":2331.058,"body":"Can you get back to almost, you 5 % of"},{"startTime":2326.418,"endTime":2331.058,"body":"that output again?"},{"startTime":2331.058,"endTime":2331.638,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":2331.638,"endTime":2332.418,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2332.418,"endTime":2333.698,"body":"Let's rest completely."},{"startTime":2333.698,"endTime":2334.858,"body":"Could you do a third round?"},{"startTime":2334.858,"endTime":2339.598,"body":"And once your performance tails off in a"},{"startTime":2334.858,"endTime":2339.598,"body":"perfect world, you'd actually be done"},{"startTime":2339.598,"endTime":2340.938,"body":"right before that."},{"startTime":2340.938,"endTime":2346.038,"body":"So that allows someone to program without"},{"startTime":2340.938,"endTime":2346.038,"body":"knowing your exact capacity."},{"startTime":2346.498,"endTime":2350.05,"body":"That still accumulate that high intensity"},{"startTime":2346.498,"endTime":2350.05,"body":"time."},{"startTime":2350.198,"endTime":2352.168,"body":"So you could start with a two minute"},{"startTime":2350.198,"endTime":2352.168,"body":"interval, right?"},{"startTime":2352.168,"endTime":2356.198,"body":"So I, you know, whenever you publish any"},{"startTime":2352.168,"endTime":2356.198,"body":"program you've ever done online, it's just"},{"startTime":2356.198,"endTime":2356.798,"body":"a disaster."},{"startTime":2356.798,"endTime":2358.778,"body":"Cause no one wants to talk about the"},{"startTime":2356.798,"endTime":2358.778,"body":"context."},{"startTime":2358.778,"endTime":2362.398,"body":"So I've published some programs in the"},{"startTime":2358.778,"endTime":2362.398,"body":"past where I've had someone just do 120"},{"startTime":2362.398,"endTime":2364.478,"body":"seconds, two minutes at high output."},{"startTime":2364.478,"endTime":2366.018,"body":"They only did two intervals."},{"startTime":2366.018,"endTime":2367.578,"body":"And they're like, you're an idiot."},{"startTime":2367.578,"endTime":2368.078,"body":"What are you doing?"},{"startTime":2368.078,"endTime":2369.138,"body":"Haven't you read any literature?"},{"startTime":2369.138,"endTime":2372.228,"body":"Don't you know it's closer to four minutes"},{"startTime":2369.138,"endTime":2372.228,"body":"and eight minutes and you need to"},{"startTime":2372.228,"endTime":2374.158,"body":"accumulate 32 minutes and all this stuff."},{"startTime":2374.158,"endTime":2375.862,"body":"I'm like, yeah."},{"startTime":2375.862,"endTime":2379.562,"body":"Then we did the third interval, their work"},{"startTime":2375.862,"endTime":2379.562,"body":"output was such dog shit, like there's no"},{"startTime":2379.562,"endTime":2380.842,"body":"way they could do it again."},{"startTime":2380.842,"endTime":2384.682,"body":"And if we went to three minutes, their"},{"startTime":2380.842,"endTime":2384.682,"body":"performance dropped off so hard at minute"},{"startTime":2384.682,"endTime":2386.952,"body":"two and a half that it wasn't productive."},{"startTime":2386.952,"endTime":2390.262,"body":"So we had to scale them back to their"},{"startTime":2386.952,"endTime":2390.262,"body":"current capacity."},{"startTime":2390.262,"endTime":2393.412,"body":"It doesn't mean that we'll never get to"},{"startTime":2390.262,"endTime":2393.412,"body":"four minutes or six minutes or longer"},{"startTime":2393.412,"endTime":2394.242,"body":"intervals."},{"startTime":2394.242,"endTime":2396.742,"body":"It's just they, they can't handle it yet."},{"startTime":2396.742,"endTime":2399.882,"body":"And if they do, sometimes we will do"},{"startTime":2396.742,"endTime":2399.882,"body":"longer intervals and literally just do"},{"startTime":2399.882,"endTime":2400.842,"body":"one."},{"startTime":2400.902,"endTime":2403.87,"body":"So you want to make sure the quality is"},{"startTime":2400.902,"endTime":2403.87,"body":"there first."},{"startTime":2403.99,"endTime":2406.42,"body":"And then over time, you can progress."},{"startTime":2406.42,"endTime":2409.45,"body":"You can actually get to the point where"},{"startTime":2406.42,"endTime":2409.45,"body":"you're doing incomplete rest."},{"startTime":2409.55,"endTime":2415.07,"body":"With the really short ones, yes, you can"},{"startTime":2409.55,"endTime":2415.07,"body":"see some increase in VO2 max."},{"startTime":2415.11,"endTime":2416.62,"body":"Let's take the Tabata study."},{"startTime":2416.62,"endTime":2419.35,"body":"God knows I got to write this article"},{"startTime":2416.62,"endTime":2419.35,"body":"because this question comes up all the"},{"startTime":2419.35,"endTime":2420.15,"body":"time."},{"startTime":2420.15,"endTime":2421.75,"body":"You look at the actual Tabata study."},{"startTime":2421.75,"endTime":2423.25,"body":"So what did they actually do?"},{"startTime":2423.25,"endTime":2428.43,"body":"So very, very high intensity, literally"},{"startTime":2423.25,"endTime":2428.43,"body":"incomplete rest."},{"startTime":2428.43,"endTime":2431.606,"body":"Like they were resting less period of time"},{"startTime":2428.43,"endTime":2431.606,"body":"than they were working."},{"startTime":2431.606,"endTime":2435.966,"body":"which for people to do high output stuff"},{"startTime":2431.606,"endTime":2435.966,"body":"is incredibly difficult."},{"startTime":2435.966,"endTime":2439.346,"body":"I think they were doing 170 % of their VO2"},{"startTime":2435.966,"endTime":2439.346,"body":"max."},{"startTime":2439.346,"endTime":2441.866,"body":"So they are way above VO2 max."},{"startTime":2441.866,"endTime":2443.846,"body":"Did they see cool improvements?"},{"startTime":2443.846,"endTime":2444.846,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2444.846,"endTime":2449.046,"body":"The study was set up so that they could"},{"startTime":2444.846,"endTime":2449.046,"body":"not complete all the intervals though."},{"startTime":2449.046,"endTime":2452.266,"body":"If you look past about week three, I"},{"startTime":2449.046,"endTime":2452.266,"body":"think, I'd have to look at the actual data"},{"startTime":2452.266,"endTime":2453.026,"body":"again."},{"startTime":2453.026,"endTime":2455.986,"body":"Their VO2 max didn't increase any more"},{"startTime":2453.026,"endTime":2455.986,"body":"after that."},{"startTime":2455.986,"endTime":2459.82,"body":"So there is, I think, some short -term"},{"startTime":2455.986,"endTime":2459.82,"body":"benefits from that."},{"startTime":2459.862,"endTime":2464.912,"body":"However, that study has been completely"},{"startTime":2459.862,"endTime":2464.912,"body":"bastardized to like Tabata 1RM pre -truck"},{"startTime":2464.912,"endTime":2470.742,"body":"hurls and all this other stuff where"},{"startTime":2464.912,"endTime":2470.742,"body":"swimming Tabata's, you know, like run,"},{"startTime":2470.742,"endTime":2474.052,"body":"even running Tabata's, most people just"},{"startTime":2470.742,"endTime":2474.052,"body":"don't have the sprint integrity to run"},{"startTime":2474.052,"endTime":2475.202,"body":"that fast."},{"startTime":2475.202,"endTime":2478.402,"body":"Like I put people on a rover, we'll"},{"startTime":2475.202,"endTime":2478.402,"body":"baseline their 2K."},{"startTime":2478.402,"endTime":2483.352,"body":"I'm like, okay, let's just do one interval"},{"startTime":2478.402,"endTime":2483.352,"body":"at 170 % of that number, right?"},{"startTime":2483.352,"endTime":2485.486,"body":"Cause you can figure out what that power"},{"startTime":2483.352,"endTime":2485.486,"body":"is."},{"startTime":2485.75,"endTime":2488.87,"body":"Maybe they can crank out one interval,"},{"startTime":2485.75,"endTime":2488.87,"body":"like even with complete rest, they can't"},{"startTime":2488.87,"endTime":2491.23,"body":"even get a second one that's close to it."},{"startTime":2491.23,"endTime":2494.17,"body":"Well, it makes me think that you're gonna"},{"startTime":2491.23,"endTime":2494.17,"body":"rest for 10 seconds and be good to go"},{"startTime":2494.17,"endTime":2495.03,"body":"again."},{"startTime":2495.13,"endTime":2499.43,"body":"Again, you have to keep that level of"},{"startTime":2495.13,"endTime":2499.43,"body":"output in order to get some of that"},{"startTime":2499.43,"endTime":2500.35,"body":"benefit."},{"startTime":2500.35,"endTime":2503.14,"body":"And yes, I have done, I stole this from my"},{"startTime":2500.35,"endTime":2503.14,"body":"buddy, Dr."},{"startTime":2503.14,"endTime":2504.21,"body":"Kenneth J."},{"startTime":2504.67,"endTime":2508.91,"body":"So if you wanna put like a high end spec,"},{"startTime":2504.67,"endTime":2508.91,"body":"what I've done is back of the envelope is,"},{"startTime":2508.91,"endTime":2513.654,"body":"if you can do a high output on the rower,"},{"startTime":2508.91,"endTime":2513.654,"body":"which is based off of your VO2 max,"},{"startTime":2513.654,"endTime":2518.874,"body":"and you can do 30 seconds on and 30"},{"startTime":2513.654,"endTime":2518.874,"body":"seconds off and you can hold that high"},{"startTime":2518.874,"endTime":2525.754,"body":"output for 10 rounds with only maybe a 5 %"},{"startTime":2518.874,"endTime":2525.754,"body":"drop, that is pretty damn badass."},{"startTime":2525.754,"endTime":2528.534,"body":"Now is that a elite level Olympic rower"},{"startTime":2525.754,"endTime":2528.534,"body":"status?"},{"startTime":2528.534,"endTime":2532.894,"body":"No, but for most people that is incredibly"},{"startTime":2528.534,"endTime":2532.894,"body":"hard."},{"startTime":2532.894,"endTime":2536.454,"body":"Now could you suffer your way through 10"},{"startTime":2532.894,"endTime":2536.454,"body":"rounds and hate your life?"},{"startTime":2536.454,"endTime":2538.584,"body":"Yes, most people have done that."},{"startTime":2538.584,"endTime":2542.344,"body":"Their output is literally half of what"},{"startTime":2538.584,"endTime":2542.344,"body":"they started."},{"startTime":2542.614,"endTime":2546.734,"body":"Again, that's kind of what I've been as"},{"startTime":2542.614,"endTime":2546.734,"body":"like the high end of the high end, like"},{"startTime":2546.734,"endTime":2552.294,"body":"one -to -one work to rest ratio, but you"},{"startTime":2546.734,"endTime":2552.294,"body":"can recover within that 30 second period"},{"startTime":2552.294,"endTime":2554.914,"body":"to go again and do it again."},{"startTime":2554.914,"endTime":2556.344,"body":"Soccer, what do you need to do that?"},{"startTime":2556.344,"endTime":2558.334,"body":"A high level of aerobic training."},{"startTime":2558.334,"endTime":2561.614,"body":"So you won't see people with a low VO2 max"},{"startTime":2558.334,"endTime":2561.614,"body":"pulling that off."},{"startTime":2561.614,"endTime":2564.664,"body":"If they do, their output is like 85 watts"},{"startTime":2561.614,"endTime":2564.664,"body":"or something."},{"startTime":2564.664,"endTime":2566.874,"body":"This is like, yeah, who cares, right?"},{"startTime":2567.594,"endTime":2571.886,"body":"So again, I remember having this talk with"},{"startTime":2567.594,"endTime":2571.886,"body":"Cal Dietz years ago."},{"startTime":2572.022,"endTime":2575.542,"body":"I was helping him write up the Triphasic 2"},{"startTime":2572.022,"endTime":2575.542,"body":"book, which we're still working on."},{"startTime":2575.542,"endTime":2577.262,"body":"Story for another day."},{"startTime":2577.542,"endTime":2581.742,"body":"In his office, he's writing all this stuff"},{"startTime":2577.542,"endTime":2581.742,"body":"on the board for like 45 minutes."},{"startTime":2581.742,"endTime":2585.642,"body":"At the end of it, I'm like thinking, how"},{"startTime":2581.742,"endTime":2585.642,"body":"the hell am I gonna write an article about"},{"startTime":2585.642,"endTime":2586.022,"body":"this?"},{"startTime":2586.022,"endTime":2588.062,"body":"Like, there's no one, you know, this is an"},{"startTime":2586.022,"endTime":2588.062,"body":"article."},{"startTime":2588.062,"endTime":2593.722,"body":"I looked at him and I'm like, okay, so"},{"startTime":2588.062,"endTime":2593.722,"body":"you're saying do the highest quality work"},{"startTime":2593.722,"endTime":2596.742,"body":"first and then repeat that."},{"startTime":2596.742,"endTime":2600.402,"body":"He kind of looks at me and he's like,"},{"startTime":2596.742,"endTime":2600.402,"body":"yeah, yeah, that sounds right."},{"startTime":2600.898,"endTime":2603.734,"body":"Oh man."},{"startTime":2603.738,"endTime":2606.598,"body":"You know, then you need to know, that's"},{"startTime":2603.738,"endTime":2606.598,"body":"why I love using the rower."},{"startTime":2606.598,"endTime":2609.658,"body":"You automatically know your output of"},{"startTime":2606.598,"endTime":2609.658,"body":"everything that you do."},{"startTime":2609.658,"endTime":2613.268,"body":"And some days, if it's not there, maybe"},{"startTime":2609.658,"endTime":2613.268,"body":"you go another round and it's still not"},{"startTime":2613.268,"endTime":2614.018,"body":"there."},{"startTime":2614.018,"endTime":2614.338,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":2614.338,"endTime":2616.098,"body":"Just, I don't care what it's programmed."},{"startTime":2616.098,"endTime":2617.618,"body":"Just shut it down and go home."},{"startTime":2617.618,"endTime":2621.818,"body":"Like you're just digging a bigger hole for"},{"startTime":2617.618,"endTime":2621.818,"body":"not a specific adaptation at that point."},{"startTime":2621.818,"endTime":2622.778,"body":"It'd just like training."},{"startTime":2622.778,"endTime":2625.388,"body":"Like how many people do junk reps in the"},{"startTime":2622.778,"endTime":2625.388,"body":"gym?"},{"startTime":2625.388,"endTime":2627.478,"body":"We could have an argument about what that"},{"startTime":2625.388,"endTime":2627.478,"body":"is."},{"startTime":2627.478,"endTime":2630.422,"body":"At some point, the volume you're doing is"},{"startTime":2627.478,"endTime":2630.422,"body":"just not."},{"startTime":2630.422,"endTime":2634.548,"body":"helping you reach your goal and you're"},{"startTime":2630.422,"endTime":2634.548,"body":"just digging a bigger hole at that point."},{"startTime":2635.266,"endTime":2636.186,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2636.506,"endTime":2641.986,"body":"It sounds like if you're doing like 30,"},{"startTime":2636.506,"endTime":2641.986,"body":"30s or 60, 60s or something like that, you"},{"startTime":2641.986,"endTime":2646.036,"body":"really just need to pace them out so that"},{"startTime":2641.986,"endTime":2646.036,"body":"your first interval is about the same"},{"startTime":2646.036,"endTime":2649.526,"body":"output as your 10th or your 12th or your"},{"startTime":2646.036,"endTime":2649.526,"body":"20th or whatever it is."},{"startTime":2649.526,"endTime":2654.466,"body":"And so it might feel easier and you'll see"},{"startTime":2649.526,"endTime":2654.466,"body":"that trend line kind of increase in RPE"},{"startTime":2654.466,"endTime":2659.446,"body":"across the workout, but you're not"},{"startTime":2654.466,"endTime":2659.446,"body":"necessarily having higher output as far as"},{"startTime":2659.446,"endTime":2661.686,"body":"Watts go or like, yeah."},{"startTime":2661.686,"endTime":2664.61,"body":"So one of the cool things that you did"},{"startTime":2661.686,"endTime":2664.61,"body":"with me,"},{"startTime":2664.61,"endTime":2665.73,"body":"on the rower."},{"startTime":2665.73,"endTime":2669.4,"body":"And I assume this could be extrapolated"},{"startTime":2665.73,"endTime":2669.4,"body":"out across different cardio modalities"},{"startTime":2669.4,"endTime":2674.85,"body":"too, is the, and I'm going to say this"},{"startTime":2669.4,"endTime":2674.85,"body":"wrong, mejolnir intervals."},{"startTime":2674.85,"endTime":2676.59,"body":"yeah, it's Thor's hammer."},{"startTime":2676.898,"endTime":2683.038,"body":"Okay, well those were incredibly awful and"},{"startTime":2676.898,"endTime":2683.038,"body":"they played on this short rest, yeah, they"},{"startTime":2683.038,"endTime":2684.638,"body":"played on this short rest sequence."},{"startTime":2684.638,"endTime":2691.658,"body":"So basically for the listeners we went 30"},{"startTime":2684.638,"endTime":2691.658,"body":"seconds hard, 30 seconds rest, 60 seconds"},{"startTime":2691.658,"endTime":2698.488,"body":"less hard but still hard, 30 seconds rest,"},{"startTime":2691.658,"endTime":2698.488,"body":"then it was like a minute or a minute and"},{"startTime":2698.488,"endTime":2701.478,"body":"a half and then 30 seconds rest and then"},{"startTime":2698.488,"endTime":2701.478,"body":"it was like two minutes and then 30"},{"startTime":2701.478,"endTime":2704.706,"body":"seconds rest and then maybe it was like"},{"startTime":2701.478,"endTime":2704.706,"body":"two and a half or three minutes and."},{"startTime":2704.706,"endTime":2706.786,"body":"then you'd rest five minutes or something"},{"startTime":2704.706,"endTime":2706.786,"body":"like that."},{"startTime":2706.786,"endTime":2712.206,"body":"But basically only 30 seconds rest between"},{"startTime":2706.786,"endTime":2712.206,"body":"these intervals where the effort starts at"},{"startTime":2712.206,"endTime":2714.386,"body":"170 % of VO2 max."},{"startTime":2714.386,"endTime":2719.096,"body":"And by the end you're at 75 % of VO2 max"},{"startTime":2714.386,"endTime":2719.096,"body":"for the two or three minutes or whatever"},{"startTime":2719.096,"endTime":2719.526,"body":"it is."},{"startTime":2719.526,"endTime":2725.466,"body":"But because these rest periods are so"},{"startTime":2719.526,"endTime":2725.466,"body":"short, even the 75 % max of VO2 max"},{"startTime":2725.466,"endTime":2730.466,"body":"interval was still super challenging"},{"startTime":2725.466,"endTime":2730.466,"body":"because you're already fatigued going into"},{"startTime":2730.466,"endTime":2730.902,"body":"it."},{"startTime":2730.902,"endTime":2732.902,"body":"So I thought that that was just super"},{"startTime":2730.902,"endTime":2732.902,"body":"cool."},{"startTime":2732.902,"endTime":2737.482,"body":"I mean, it was miserable by all accounts,"},{"startTime":2732.902,"endTime":2737.482,"body":"like one of the worst things that I've"},{"startTime":2737.482,"endTime":2740.362,"body":"done, especially when you increased it to"},{"startTime":2737.482,"endTime":2740.362,"body":"four rounds."},{"startTime":2740.362,"endTime":2743.962,"body":"So it took me like just under an hour to"},{"startTime":2740.362,"endTime":2743.962,"body":"do that."},{"startTime":2743.962,"endTime":2749.43,"body":"But yeah, where did those intervals come"},{"startTime":2743.962,"endTime":2749.43,"body":"from and why are they so effective?"},{"startTime":2749.814,"endTime":2753.434,"body":"Yeah, so that's all I blatantly stole that"},{"startTime":2749.814,"endTime":2753.434,"body":"from my buddy, Dr."},{"startTime":2753.434,"endTime":2754.234,"body":"Kenneth J."},{"startTime":2754.234,"endTime":2756.264,"body":"He's got a great book called The Cardio"},{"startTime":2754.234,"endTime":2756.264,"body":"Code."},{"startTime":2756.264,"endTime":2757.204,"body":"So look up his stuff."},{"startTime":2757.204,"endTime":2759.954,"body":"He's the one who got me into rowing via"},{"startTime":2757.204,"endTime":2759.954,"body":"the Kerrig Institute."},{"startTime":2760.034,"endTime":2764.184,"body":"And I never used a rower much before I had"},{"startTime":2760.034,"endTime":2764.184,"body":"played around with it."},{"startTime":2764.184,"endTime":2769.154,"body":"And I was like, but I realized with"},{"startTime":2764.184,"endTime":2769.154,"body":"lifters, it's great because you get output"},{"startTime":2769.154,"endTime":2772.194,"body":"and it's a full body."},{"startTime":2772.194,"endTime":2775.034,"body":"You can do everything from power to"},{"startTime":2772.194,"endTime":2775.034,"body":"aerobic stuff on it."},{"startTime":2775.034,"endTime":2778.314,"body":"It's easy to get data and it's no impact."},{"startTime":2778.554,"endTime":2778.87,"body":"And."},{"startTime":2778.87,"endTime":2780.73,"body":"most people can figure out how to roll."},{"startTime":2780.73,"endTime":2782.9,"body":"Like, are they gonna be elite level rower"},{"startTime":2780.73,"endTime":2782.9,"body":"in two sessions?"},{"startTime":2782.9,"endTime":2787.05,"body":"No, but they'll be effective enough that"},{"startTime":2782.9,"endTime":2787.05,"body":"they're not gonna really hurt themselves"},{"startTime":2787.05,"endTime":2788.53,"body":"or damage themselves."},{"startTime":2788.53,"endTime":2792.87,"body":"So it's the curve to learn how to do it"},{"startTime":2788.53,"endTime":2792.87,"body":"isn't super high."},{"startTime":2792.97,"endTime":2798.45,"body":"So I think that was adapted from some"},{"startTime":2792.97,"endTime":2798.45,"body":"Scandinavian research that looked at,"},{"startTime":2798.59,"endTime":2802.83,"body":"there's something called, you can do a bio"},{"startTime":2798.59,"endTime":2802.83,"body":"-energetic profile."},{"startTime":2802.83,"endTime":2805.39,"body":"I'm blanking on who the researcher is,"},{"startTime":2802.83,"endTime":2805.39,"body":"I'll think of it."},{"startTime":2805.41,"endTime":2806.262,"body":"And."},{"startTime":2806.262,"endTime":2809.932,"body":"You just have people do like a very short"},{"startTime":2806.262,"endTime":2809.932,"body":"100 meter the next day."},{"startTime":2809.932,"endTime":2811.662,"body":"You'll do we did this with you, right?"},{"startTime":2811.662,"endTime":2817.232,"body":"So you're 30 second wind gate, 60 second"},{"startTime":2811.662,"endTime":2817.232,"body":"wind gate, 180 second wind gate, which is"},{"startTime":2817.232,"endTime":2820.942,"body":"a three minutes hard as hard as you can,"},{"startTime":2817.232,"endTime":2820.942,"body":"which is miserable."},{"startTime":2820.942,"endTime":2823.342,"body":"A 2K and then a 20 minute."},{"startTime":2823.342,"endTime":2827.102,"body":"There's also the hour of power, which I"},{"startTime":2823.342,"endTime":2827.102,"body":"don't do it to anyone to 60 minutes."},{"startTime":2827.102,"endTime":2830.462,"body":"And from that, you can then map out, are"},{"startTime":2827.102,"endTime":2830.462,"body":"you really good at the strength and power"},{"startTime":2830.462,"endTime":2835.276,"body":"you stuff or this aerobic capacity around"},{"startTime":2830.462,"endTime":2835.276,"body":"20 minutes to kind of cap out there?"},{"startTime":2835.414,"endTime":2840.244,"body":"And what he's saying is that with that"},{"startTime":2835.414,"endTime":2840.244,"body":"specific program, anywhere from a 500"},{"startTime":2840.244,"endTime":2843.734,"body":"meter to a 5K, like most people will"},{"startTime":2840.244,"endTime":2843.734,"body":"improve."},{"startTime":2843.734,"endTime":2844.694,"body":"So what are you doing?"},{"startTime":2844.694,"endTime":2849.694,"body":"You're stacking the high output, high"},{"startTime":2844.694,"endTime":2849.694,"body":"intensity stuff first, but it's very"},{"startTime":2849.694,"endTime":2850.714,"body":"short."},{"startTime":2850.754,"endTime":2853.974,"body":"You're dropping the intensity a little bit"},{"startTime":2850.754,"endTime":2853.974,"body":"and you're going a little bit longer,"},{"startTime":2853.974,"endTime":2856.174,"body":"dropping the intensity again, a little bit"},{"startTime":2853.974,"endTime":2856.174,"body":"longer."},{"startTime":2856.174,"endTime":2860.994,"body":"So you're literally stacking fatigue on"},{"startTime":2856.174,"endTime":2860.994,"body":"top of itself, which allows you to use"},{"startTime":2860.994,"endTime":2864.362,"body":"these very short recovery periods."},{"startTime":2864.374,"endTime":2867.354,"body":"But then that's a block of five intervals."},{"startTime":2867.354,"endTime":2870.274,"body":"And then you have, like you said, three to"},{"startTime":2867.354,"endTime":2870.274,"body":"five minutes off."},{"startTime":2870.274,"endTime":2875.364,"body":"So your goal is we know based on your 2K,"},{"startTime":2870.274,"endTime":2875.364,"body":"which is 100%, we can then program these"},{"startTime":2875.364,"endTime":2877.174,"body":"outputs that you should hit."},{"startTime":2877.174,"endTime":2882.634,"body":"So you get everything from high power"},{"startTime":2877.174,"endTime":2882.634,"body":"output to moderate aerobic stuff too."},{"startTime":2882.634,"endTime":2886.314,"body":"But you're still doing it in a way that"},{"startTime":2882.634,"endTime":2886.314,"body":"you know what your output is."},{"startTime":2886.314,"endTime":2889.864,"body":"And then once you've kind of completed"},{"startTime":2886.314,"endTime":2889.864,"body":"those, you've got like a complete full"},{"startTime":2889.864,"endTime":2891.502,"body":"rest period after that."},{"startTime":2891.606,"endTime":2895.276,"body":"And if you scale up to doing, I think I"},{"startTime":2891.606,"endTime":2895.276,"body":"did the math one day, like five rounds on"},{"startTime":2895.276,"endTime":2899.966,"body":"that, I want to say it's what 7 ,500"},{"startTime":2895.276,"endTime":2899.966,"body":"meters, I think."},{"startTime":2899.966,"endTime":2905.206,"body":"And if you just sat down on a rover and"},{"startTime":2899.966,"endTime":2905.206,"body":"did 7 ,500 meters, like your overall"},{"startTime":2905.206,"endTime":2908.886,"body":"quality will just drop off pretty hard."},{"startTime":2908.886,"endTime":2913.086,"body":"So it's kind of a cool way of, I would"},{"startTime":2908.886,"endTime":2913.086,"body":"say, entertaining lifters also, because"},{"startTime":2913.086,"endTime":2915.466,"body":"you always got that next thing you're"},{"startTime":2913.086,"endTime":2915.466,"body":"looking at, the next thing, the next"},{"startTime":2915.466,"endTime":2916.126,"body":"thing."},{"startTime":2916.126,"endTime":2920.566,"body":"But you end up getting them to do this"},{"startTime":2916.126,"endTime":2920.566,"body":"high quality output over."},{"startTime":2920.566,"endTime":2921.926,"body":"the course of time."},{"startTime":2921.926,"endTime":2925.396,"body":"And like you said, for people who've ever"},{"startTime":2921.926,"endTime":2925.396,"body":"done this, you set it up and you're like,"},{"startTime":2925.396,"endTime":2926.626,"body":"ah, one round."},{"startTime":2926.626,"endTime":2927.336,"body":"Now that kind of sucked."},{"startTime":2927.336,"endTime":2928.166,"body":"That wasn't bad."},{"startTime":2928.166,"endTime":2929.426,"body":"Two rounds."},{"startTime":2929.426,"endTime":2932.286,"body":"Yeah, you know, it's okay."},{"startTime":2932.286,"endTime":2933.396,"body":"You know, it wasn't that bad."},{"startTime":2933.396,"endTime":2935.486,"body":"I think this is going to be all right."},{"startTime":2935.486,"endTime":2938.566,"body":"Like round three, you're like, fuck, I"},{"startTime":2935.486,"endTime":2938.566,"body":"hate my life."},{"startTime":2938.566,"endTime":2941.376,"body":"You know, round four, you're like, oh,"},{"startTime":2938.566,"endTime":2941.376,"body":"look, white buffaloes in the sky."},{"startTime":2941.376,"endTime":2942.006,"body":"I want to die."},{"startTime":2942.006,"endTime":2942.866,"body":"I hate you."},{"startTime":2942.866,"endTime":2945.786,"body":"Like the fifth round, you're like, oh my"},{"startTime":2942.866,"endTime":2945.786,"body":"God, please make this thing."},{"startTime":2945.786,"endTime":2948.286,"body":"And this is the worst thing I've ever done"},{"startTime":2945.786,"endTime":2948.286,"body":"in my life."},{"startTime":2948.982,"endTime":2949.742,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2949.742,"endTime":2950.992,"body":"That's literally how I felt."},{"startTime":2950.992,"endTime":2952.072,"body":"I mean, it was awful."},{"startTime":2952.072,"endTime":2956.112,"body":"But I do agree that having those kind of"},{"startTime":2952.072,"endTime":2956.112,"body":"built -in rest periods and that kind of"},{"startTime":2956.112,"endTime":2960.502,"body":"the next thing in sight, and then you know"},{"startTime":2956.112,"endTime":2960.502,"body":"you have that like four, three to five"},{"startTime":2960.502,"endTime":2961.882,"body":"minute rest at the end."},{"startTime":2961.882,"endTime":2963.402,"body":"I just love those."},{"startTime":2963.402,"endTime":2966.462,"body":"I mean, I hated them, but I thought them"},{"startTime":2963.402,"endTime":2966.462,"body":"extremely effective."},{"startTime":2966.462,"endTime":2970.262,"body":"And so I appreciate you kind of"},{"startTime":2966.462,"endTime":2970.262,"body":"introducing me to those."},{"startTime":2970.518,"endTime":2971.658,"body":"Yeah, they work great."},{"startTime":2971.658,"endTime":2976.938,"body":"And it's a thing where you also have to"},{"startTime":2971.658,"endTime":2976.938,"body":"take the psychology of crazy lifters into"},{"startTime":2976.938,"endTime":2977.958,"body":"mind."},{"startTime":2977.958,"endTime":2981.738,"body":"Because if I just programmed you to do 7"},{"startTime":2977.958,"endTime":2981.738,"body":",500 meters in a row where you're like,"},{"startTime":2981.738,"endTime":2984.208,"body":"screw you, you're fired, this is dumb, I'm"},{"startTime":2981.738,"endTime":2984.208,"body":"not doing this."},{"startTime":2984.208,"endTime":2989.558,"body":"Or if you did do it, your output would"},{"startTime":2984.208,"endTime":2989.558,"body":"drop off like so hard."},{"startTime":2989.978,"endTime":2990.67,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2990.958,"endTime":2992.178,"body":"right, cool."},{"startTime":2992.178,"endTime":2994.838,"body":"I wanna shift into some breathing and HRV"},{"startTime":2992.178,"endTime":2994.838,"body":"stuff."},{"startTime":2994.838,"endTime":2997.37,"body":"Aaron, anything on VO2 max before I do?"},{"startTime":2998.848,"endTime":3001.058,"body":"No, except for it."},{"startTime":3001.058,"endTime":3004.558,"body":"When, when, when conversations with, with"},{"startTime":3001.058,"endTime":3004.558,"body":"this, I'm always like, ah, maybe I'll do"},{"startTime":3004.558,"endTime":3005.068,"body":"some of that."},{"startTime":3005.068,"endTime":3007.288,"body":"And then after the end, I was like, no,"},{"startTime":3005.068,"endTime":3007.288,"body":"I'm not doing that."},{"startTime":3007.288,"endTime":3010.438,"body":"I'm not adding that into my life right"},{"startTime":3007.288,"endTime":3010.438,"body":"now."},{"startTime":3010.538,"endTime":3011.666,"body":"It's a hard pass."},{"startTime":3011.666,"endTime":3012.576,"body":"on the bike, bro."},{"startTime":3012.576,"endTime":3013.476,"body":"Do it on the bike."},{"startTime":3013.476,"endTime":3015.126,"body":"You got it."},{"startTime":3015.926,"endTime":3016.816,"body":"Um, yep."},{"startTime":3016.816,"endTime":3021.586,"body":"VO2 max was, your 2K and then post and"},{"startTime":3016.816,"endTime":3021.586,"body":"then the fact that you did six weeks and"},{"startTime":3021.586,"endTime":3023.526,"body":"then you said we need to take a break."},{"startTime":3024.426,"endTime":3026.866,"body":"Which is very typical."},{"startTime":3027.33,"endTime":3032.55,"body":"Yeah, I, it's mentally, man, it was"},{"startTime":3027.33,"endTime":3032.55,"body":"psychologically more than anything."},{"startTime":3032.55,"endTime":3037.93,"body":"It's just, yeah, it's just so hard to go"},{"startTime":3032.55,"endTime":3037.93,"body":"there, to get up and go there and do all"},{"startTime":3037.93,"endTime":3039.75,"body":"the training that goes into going there."},{"startTime":3039.75,"endTime":3042.21,"body":"It's just, it's so daunting."},{"startTime":3042.89,"endTime":3047.47,"body":"Yeah, and that so for listeners, we said"},{"startTime":3042.89,"endTime":3047.47,"body":"he wanted to increase his VO2 max."},{"startTime":3047.47,"endTime":3049.09,"body":"We primarily use the rower."},{"startTime":3049.09,"endTime":3050.73,"body":"He's like, yeah, I want to do this."},{"startTime":3050.73,"endTime":3054.2,"body":"So we blasted him for six weeks and I"},{"startTime":3050.73,"endTime":3054.2,"body":"don't know."},{"startTime":3054.2,"endTime":3054.87,"body":"What do you cut?"},{"startTime":3054.87,"endTime":3057.12,"body":"What's 15 seconds or something off your"},{"startTime":3054.87,"endTime":3057.12,"body":"2K?"},{"startTime":3057.12,"endTime":3057.954,"body":"I think, is that right?"},{"startTime":3057.954,"endTime":3063.884,"body":"Yeah, well, yeah, it was a 25 seconds from"},{"startTime":3057.954,"endTime":3063.884,"body":"the very beginning to the, to the end, but"},{"startTime":3063.884,"endTime":3067.894,"body":"from when we actually started, yeah, it"},{"startTime":3063.884,"endTime":3067.894,"body":"was 11 seconds, but those were big 11"},{"startTime":3067.894,"endTime":3068.234,"body":"seconds."},{"startTime":3068.234,"endTime":3070.828,"body":"It went from seven 14 to seven Oh three."},{"startTime":3070.838,"endTime":3075.098,"body":"Yeah, and that's a huge difference from"},{"startTime":3070.838,"endTime":3075.098,"body":"714 to 703."},{"startTime":3075.478,"endTime":3079.738,"body":"And then also for the listeners, shocker"},{"startTime":3075.478,"endTime":3079.738,"body":"that once we hit the goal, it's like, oh"},{"startTime":3079.738,"endTime":3081.958,"body":"my God, I can't handle that anymore."},{"startTime":3081.958,"endTime":3084.758,"body":"Let's go do something else on my own."},{"startTime":3084.758,"endTime":3084.978,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3084.978,"endTime":3086.348,"body":"Which same thing with lifting."},{"startTime":3086.348,"endTime":3089.658,"body":"Like if you've got a big goal you want to"},{"startTime":3086.348,"endTime":3089.658,"body":"hit, like, you know, I'd much rather"},{"startTime":3089.658,"endTime":3094.708,"body":"people take a six, eight week period and"},{"startTime":3089.658,"endTime":3094.708,"body":"just do the best you can and see how close"},{"startTime":3094.708,"endTime":3095.618,"body":"you can get."},{"startTime":3095.618,"endTime":3096.058,"body":"And cool."},{"startTime":3096.058,"endTime":3096.948,"body":"You got close to the goal."},{"startTime":3096.948,"endTime":3097.588,"body":"We made the goal."},{"startTime":3097.588,"endTime":3097.908,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":3097.908,"endTime":3100.018,"body":"You want to shift gears and do something"},{"startTime":3097.908,"endTime":3100.018,"body":"else?"},{"startTime":3100.278,"endTime":3104.688,"body":"Cool, like I think once you're at a"},{"startTime":3100.278,"endTime":3104.688,"body":"moderately advanced level, that's kind of"},{"startTime":3104.688,"endTime":3109.268,"body":"what you have to do because the days have"},{"startTime":3104.688,"endTime":3109.268,"body":"gone by where you just go out and"},{"startTime":3109.268,"endTime":3112.438,"body":"leisurely row 20 minutes and expect to"},{"startTime":3109.268,"endTime":3112.438,"body":"shave 11 seconds off."},{"startTime":3112.438,"endTime":3113.918,"body":"Like that's not gonna happen."},{"startTime":3114.786,"endTime":3116.326,"body":"Right, no, 100%."},{"startTime":3116.326,"endTime":3119.386,"body":"Yeah, it's just, it's very all consuming."},{"startTime":3120.026,"endTime":3125.026,"body":"Cool, so breathing is something I've"},{"startTime":3120.026,"endTime":3125.026,"body":"actually been really interested in"},{"startTime":3125.026,"endTime":3126.006,"body":"recently."},{"startTime":3126.006,"endTime":3131.256,"body":"I've been listening to a lot of things"},{"startTime":3126.006,"endTime":3131.256,"body":"from Brian McKenzie, Patrick McCown, among"},{"startTime":3131.256,"endTime":3132.306,"body":"others."},{"startTime":3132.466,"endTime":3136.066,"body":"And they talk a lot about breath rate."},{"startTime":3136.066,"endTime":3138.666,"body":"How many breaths are we taking in a"},{"startTime":3136.066,"endTime":3138.666,"body":"minute?"},{"startTime":3138.706,"endTime":3143.49,"body":"And they specifically talk about breath"},{"startTime":3138.706,"endTime":3143.49,"body":"rate during sleep."},{"startTime":3143.49,"endTime":3148.13,"body":"And so this is now something that I've"},{"startTime":3143.49,"endTime":3148.13,"body":"been paying acute attention to on my own"},{"startTime":3148.13,"endTime":3152.29,"body":"because my Apple watch actually tracks my"},{"startTime":3148.13,"endTime":3152.29,"body":"breath rate while I'm sleeping."},{"startTime":3152.29,"endTime":3160.17,"body":"And I'm now keenly aware that I over"},{"startTime":3152.29,"endTime":3160.17,"body":"breathe while I sleep, but I don't seem to"},{"startTime":3160.17,"endTime":3163.37,"body":"breathe as fast during the day."},{"startTime":3163.37,"endTime":3169.16,"body":"Like just sitting there doing computer"},{"startTime":3163.37,"endTime":3169.16,"body":"work, I'm usually in that 10 ish, 10 to 12"},{"startTime":3169.16,"endTime":3170.53,"body":"breaths per minute range."},{"startTime":3170.53,"endTime":3173.288,"body":"But when I'm sleeping, I tend to be"},{"startTime":3170.53,"endTime":3173.288,"body":"between"},{"startTime":3173.698,"endTime":3175.598,"body":"14 and 18."},{"startTime":3175.598,"endTime":3179.828,"body":"And the numbers seem to show that when"},{"startTime":3175.598,"endTime":3179.828,"body":"you're sleeping, you want to be in that 12"},{"startTime":3179.828,"endTime":3184.878,"body":"or less range for the most part, um, to"},{"startTime":3179.828,"endTime":3184.878,"body":"kind of control CO2 and all these other"},{"startTime":3184.878,"endTime":3186.718,"body":"parameters and stuff like that."},{"startTime":3186.718,"endTime":3196.608,"body":"And, uh, yeah, so I've just been a little,"},{"startTime":3186.718,"endTime":3196.608,"body":"uh, I guess, unsure of why I'm breathing"},{"startTime":3196.608,"endTime":3197.988,"body":"so much while I'm sleeping."},{"startTime":3197.988,"endTime":3200.368,"body":"I mean, I'm, I'm mouth taping, so I'm"},{"startTime":3197.988,"endTime":3200.368,"body":"breathing through my nose."},{"startTime":3200.368,"endTime":3203.394,"body":"I'm not sitting there panting and, and"},{"startTime":3200.368,"endTime":3203.394,"body":"mouth breathing."},{"startTime":3203.394,"endTime":3208.834,"body":"So it's just been really interesting and"},{"startTime":3203.394,"endTime":3208.834,"body":"you know, what are your thoughts on the"},{"startTime":3208.834,"endTime":3215.724,"body":"breath rate thing and how impactful is"},{"startTime":3208.834,"endTime":3215.724,"body":"that for general human health and also for"},{"startTime":3215.724,"endTime":3220.564,"body":"output of cardiovascular ability during,"},{"startTime":3215.724,"endTime":3220.564,"body":"you know, aerobic exercise and stuff like"},{"startTime":3220.564,"endTime":3221.242,"body":"that."},{"startTime":3221.398,"endTime":3222.418,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3222.678,"endTime":3226.678,"body":"The short answer is I think it's super"},{"startTime":3222.678,"endTime":3226.678,"body":"beneficial."},{"startTime":3226.818,"endTime":3230.058,"body":"So when I got into this, I read Patrick"},{"startTime":3226.818,"endTime":3230.058,"body":"McEwen's book when it first came out."},{"startTime":3230.058,"endTime":3233.818,"body":"I read a lot of early Boutteco research,"},{"startTime":3230.058,"endTime":3233.818,"body":"which is what his book is based on."},{"startTime":3233.818,"endTime":3237.048,"body":"And honestly, at that time, I just, I"},{"startTime":3233.818,"endTime":3237.048,"body":"didn't get it."},{"startTime":3237.048,"endTime":3239.198,"body":"He's like, yeah, at least people are"},{"startTime":3237.048,"endTime":3239.198,"body":"walking around over breathing."},{"startTime":3239.198,"endTime":3241.278,"body":"I'm like, what are you talking about?"},{"startTime":3241.438,"endTime":3243.058,"body":"Like the breath rate's fine."},{"startTime":3243.318,"endTime":3247.508,"body":"You know, and then over time I started"},{"startTime":3243.318,"endTime":3247.508,"body":"doing a lot of stuff."},{"startTime":3247.508,"endTime":3249.818,"body":"So I started using the bolt test from"},{"startTime":3247.508,"endTime":3249.818,"body":"there with clients."},{"startTime":3249.818,"endTime":3251.61,"body":"And then I realized,"},{"startTime":3251.894,"endTime":3254.974,"body":"I think higher level clients just cheat"},{"startTime":3251.894,"endTime":3254.974,"body":"their ass off because one of the things"},{"startTime":3254.974,"endTime":3260.014,"body":"you have to, the marker for the end of the"},{"startTime":3254.974,"endTime":3260.014,"body":"test is when you first feel the sensation"},{"startTime":3260.014,"endTime":3261.134,"body":"to breathe."},{"startTime":3261.134,"endTime":3263.024,"body":"And so I started doing it with the clients"},{"startTime":3261.134,"endTime":3263.024,"body":"in person."},{"startTime":3263.024,"endTime":3266.494,"body":"I'd seen them like, you know, basically"},{"startTime":3263.024,"endTime":3266.494,"body":"almost turned blue and passed out and"},{"startTime":3266.494,"endTime":3269.764,"body":"they're like, no, bro, that was like my"},{"startTime":3266.494,"endTime":3269.764,"body":"first time I felt the urge to breathe."},{"startTime":3269.764,"endTime":3271.514,"body":"I'm like looking at your face."},{"startTime":3271.514,"endTime":3275.034,"body":"I think it was like 20 or 30 seconds"},{"startTime":3271.514,"endTime":3275.034,"body":"earlier, you know?"},{"startTime":3275.034,"endTime":3279.134,"body":"And then Brian McKenzie has his exhale"},{"startTime":3275.034,"endTime":3279.134,"body":"test, which I switched everyone over to"},{"startTime":3279.134,"endTime":3281.018,"body":"just to take a nasal."},{"startTime":3281.382,"endTime":3285.342,"body":"Breath and then how long can you do that"},{"startTime":3281.382,"endTime":3285.342,"body":"nasal exhale?"},{"startTime":3285.342,"endTime":3289.622,"body":"I'm human Andy Galpin to publish some cool"},{"startTime":3285.342,"endTime":3289.622,"body":"research on that So that's kind of a way"},{"startTime":3289.622,"endTime":3294.652,"body":"to calculate your your baseline and when I"},{"startTime":3289.622,"endTime":3294.652,"body":"started doing this clients Got with me"},{"startTime":3294.652,"endTime":3299.072,"body":"five years ago when you first came out"},{"startTime":3294.652,"endTime":3299.072,"body":"with it six years ago It was weird like"},{"startTime":3299.072,"endTime":3303.242,"body":"some clients were really good and some"},{"startTime":3299.072,"endTime":3303.242,"body":"were horrible and then with the advent of"},{"startTime":3303.242,"endTime":3307.942,"body":"you know aura and a Garmin and the ability"},{"startTime":3303.242,"endTime":3307.942,"body":"to look at respiratory rate at night."},{"startTime":3308.302,"endTime":3310.326,"body":"I then realized oh"},{"startTime":3310.326,"endTime":3314.456,"body":"Now we have a window into what is your"},{"startTime":3310.326,"endTime":3314.456,"body":"physiology doing when it's completely"},{"startTime":3314.456,"endTime":3315.666,"body":"unloaded."},{"startTime":3315.666,"endTime":3319.596,"body":"And I started seeing these high breath"},{"startTime":3315.666,"endTime":3319.596,"body":"rates, like mine for a while was 16, 17"},{"startTime":3319.596,"endTime":3321.066,"body":"breaths per minute."},{"startTime":3321.106,"endTime":3324.886,"body":"And if you look in physiology, they'd say,"},{"startTime":3321.106,"endTime":3324.886,"body":"well, that's kind of normal."},{"startTime":3324.886,"endTime":3328.506,"body":"But what you realize is that if you're"},{"startTime":3324.886,"endTime":3328.506,"body":"breathing really fast at night, the"},{"startTime":3328.506,"endTime":3330.786,"body":"question is, why are you doing that?"},{"startTime":3331.006,"endTime":3335.52,"body":"And your body is used to a certain level"},{"startTime":3331.006,"endTime":3335.52,"body":"of CO2."},{"startTime":3335.52,"endTime":3340.32,"body":"and that CO2 level is plastic because it's"},{"startTime":3335.52,"endTime":3340.32,"body":"regulated by certain parts of the brain"},{"startTime":3340.32,"endTime":3343.75,"body":"stem, meaning that you can change it over"},{"startTime":3340.32,"endTime":3343.75,"body":"time."},{"startTime":3343.75,"endTime":3348.41,"body":"And a lot of people don't realize that CO2"},{"startTime":3343.75,"endTime":3348.41,"body":"is a primarily driver of breathing."},{"startTime":3348.41,"endTime":3350.51,"body":"Oxygen is the backup system."},{"startTime":3350.51,"endTime":3354.93,"body":"So when you're holding your breath, your"},{"startTime":3350.51,"endTime":3354.93,"body":"CO2 is accumulating because you're not"},{"startTime":3354.93,"endTime":3359.29,"body":"breathing, shocker, and then that triggers"},{"startTime":3354.93,"endTime":3359.29,"body":"your body in order to breathe."},{"startTime":3359.35,"endTime":3360.664,"body":"At night,"},{"startTime":3360.854,"endTime":3365.264,"body":"you're breathing too fast, meaning your"},{"startTime":3360.854,"endTime":3365.264,"body":"body is trying to regulate this level of"},{"startTime":3365.264,"endTime":3368.684,"body":"CO2, but it's kind of at the wrong"},{"startTime":3365.264,"endTime":3368.684,"body":"setting."},{"startTime":3368.684,"endTime":3371.754,"body":"It'd be like setting the thermostat in"},{"startTime":3368.684,"endTime":3371.754,"body":"your house to the wrong setting."},{"startTime":3371.754,"endTime":3375.534,"body":"So you're optimizing, you're trying to"},{"startTime":3371.754,"endTime":3375.534,"body":"move around this set point."},{"startTime":3375.554,"endTime":3378.804,"body":"And when I started looking at it closer,"},{"startTime":3375.554,"endTime":3378.804,"body":"like people who had a lot of reported"},{"startTime":3378.804,"endTime":3383.254,"body":"ADHD, like, oh, look, squirrel, like"},{"startTime":3378.804,"endTime":3383.254,"body":"people who were just, you know, completely"},{"startTime":3383.254,"endTime":3386.734,"body":"on the sympathetic side, we'd look at"},{"startTime":3383.254,"endTime":3386.734,"body":"resting heart rate, we'd look at their"},{"startTime":3386.734,"endTime":3388.114,"body":"HRV."},{"startTime":3388.294,"endTime":3390.006,"body":"Most of the time, but not all the time,"},{"startTime":3390.006,"endTime":3392.546,"body":"the respiratory rate would be super high."},{"startTime":3392.726,"endTime":3394.886,"body":"Then we're talking to Andy about this too."},{"startTime":3394.886,"endTime":3399.376,"body":"And the thing that it finally made sense"},{"startTime":3394.886,"endTime":3399.376,"body":"to me was the ability to look at it at"},{"startTime":3399.376,"endTime":3402.026,"body":"night in a measurement where they're"},{"startTime":3399.376,"endTime":3402.026,"body":"unloaded."},{"startTime":3402.026,"endTime":3406.826,"body":"And so they're not having any conscious"},{"startTime":3402.026,"endTime":3406.826,"body":"control over it and they're not cheating."},{"startTime":3406.826,"endTime":3409.646,"body":"So we can look at this data and see where"},{"startTime":3406.826,"endTime":3409.646,"body":"they're at."},{"startTime":3409.646,"endTime":3414.206,"body":"So if they are over -breathing, what you"},{"startTime":3409.646,"endTime":3414.206,"body":"want to do then is you want to change that"},{"startTime":3414.206,"endTime":3416.378,"body":"setting of their CO2."},{"startTime":3416.566,"endTime":3420.456,"body":"And what I've realized is the best for"},{"startTime":3416.566,"endTime":3420.456,"body":"this, again, this is from Brian McKenzie's"},{"startTime":3420.456,"endTime":3423.646,"body":"stuff, Emily Hightower, Andy Gilpin, all"},{"startTime":3420.456,"endTime":3423.646,"body":"these guys."},{"startTime":3425.246,"endTime":3432.386,"body":"Some breath control on walking or moderate"},{"startTime":3425.246,"endTime":3432.386,"body":"aerobic stuff will make a huge difference."},{"startTime":3432.426,"endTime":3437.006,"body":"So you'll have clients where you'll spec,"},{"startTime":3432.426,"endTime":3437.006,"body":"okay, I want you to breathe in and out"},{"startTime":3437.006,"endTime":3439.566,"body":"over two seconds, which is pretty easy."},{"startTime":3439.566,"endTime":3445.596,"body":"But you'll hit that point just doing zone"},{"startTime":3439.566,"endTime":3445.596,"body":"two stuff where it's hard to stay at that"},{"startTime":3445.596,"endTime":3446.166,"body":"area."},{"startTime":3446.166,"endTime":3450.226,"body":"Like you want to go below it or you want"},{"startTime":3446.166,"endTime":3450.226,"body":"to go above it because it's uncomfortable."},{"startTime":3450.226,"endTime":3454.166,"body":"So you're building up more CO2, but you're"},{"startTime":3450.226,"endTime":3454.166,"body":"not changing it."},{"startTime":3454.166,"endTime":3457.726,"body":"You're not trying to get rid of that CO2"},{"startTime":3454.166,"endTime":3457.726,"body":"right away."},{"startTime":3457.766,"endTime":3462.346,"body":"And over time, what this will do is change"},{"startTime":3457.766,"endTime":3462.346,"body":"that setting of those chemoreceptors in"},{"startTime":3462.346,"endTime":3463.046,"body":"the brain."},{"startTime":3463.046,"endTime":3466.226,"body":"And that'll then down regulate your breath"},{"startTime":3463.046,"endTime":3466.226,"body":"rate."},{"startTime":3466.226,"endTime":3469.946,"body":"And when that happens, people then report,"},{"startTime":3466.226,"endTime":3469.946,"body":"Oh yeah, my sleep is better."},{"startTime":3469.946,"endTime":3473.686,"body":"Like I don't feel as ADD, like I don't"},{"startTime":3469.946,"endTime":3473.686,"body":"know squirrels, like, eh, whatever."},{"startTime":3473.686,"endTime":3475.49,"body":"It doesn't matter as much."},{"startTime":3475.55,"endTime":3476.474,"body":"Mm -hmm."},{"startTime":3476.654,"endTime":3479.734,"body":"I think those people were on that"},{"startTime":3476.654,"endTime":3479.734,"body":"sympathetic side."},{"startTime":3479.734,"endTime":3484.134,"body":"The first thing I look at is what is your"},{"startTime":3479.734,"endTime":3484.134,"body":"aerobic development, VO2 max?"},{"startTime":3484.134,"endTime":3485.294,"body":"What's your resting heart rate?"},{"startTime":3485.294,"endTime":3486.694,"body":"What's your HRV?"},{"startTime":3486.694,"endTime":3489.214,"body":"And then I'll look at what is your"},{"startTime":3486.694,"endTime":3489.214,"body":"respiratory rate at night?"},{"startTime":3489.214,"endTime":3492.714,"body":"Because those things will tell me what"},{"startTime":3489.214,"endTime":3492.714,"body":"areas we need to target."},{"startTime":3492.714,"endTime":3498.314,"body":"If your VO2 max is dog crap, any benefit"},{"startTime":3492.714,"endTime":3498.314,"body":"in that is gonna be a huge improvement."},{"startTime":3498.354,"endTime":3502.592,"body":"If your resting heart rate is too high,"},{"startTime":3498.354,"endTime":3502.592,"body":"yeah, VO2 max probably again."},{"startTime":3502.592,"endTime":3508.562,"body":"If your respiratory rate at night is just"},{"startTime":3502.592,"endTime":3508.562,"body":"high, but your VO2 max is good and your"},{"startTime":3508.562,"endTime":3514.352,"body":"HRV is okay, then I'm going to definitely"},{"startTime":3508.562,"endTime":3514.352,"body":"target some type of breath control with"},{"startTime":3514.352,"endTime":3521.102,"body":"walking or zone two stuff, trying to get"},{"startTime":3514.352,"endTime":3521.102,"body":"you used to that next level of CO2."},{"startTime":3521.102,"endTime":3525.992,"body":"Sometimes an air quotes, it's called a CO2"},{"startTime":3521.102,"endTime":3525.992,"body":"tolerance so that we can down regulate"},{"startTime":3525.992,"endTime":3527.182,"body":"that over time."},{"startTime":3527.554,"endTime":3533.044,"body":"Yeah, that's really interesting because I"},{"startTime":3527.554,"endTime":3533.044,"body":"actually fall into that category of"},{"startTime":3533.044,"endTime":3537.754,"body":"somebody that has an extremely low resting"},{"startTime":3533.044,"endTime":3537.754,"body":"heart rate, like in the low 40s."},{"startTime":3537.934,"endTime":3542.174,"body":"My HRV, which I want to get into next, is"},{"startTime":3537.934,"endTime":3542.174,"body":"quite good as well."},{"startTime":3542.174,"endTime":3547.914,"body":"And I've just recently switched to the"},{"startTime":3542.174,"endTime":3547.914,"body":"chest strap with the Elite HRV app because"},{"startTime":3547.914,"endTime":3550.69,"body":"what I realized was that my Apple Watch..."},{"startTime":3550.69,"endTime":3553.35,"body":"was giving me these super high bloated"},{"startTime":3550.69,"endTime":3553.35,"body":"readings."},{"startTime":3553.35,"endTime":3557.57,"body":"And I only just realized it's because it's"},{"startTime":3553.35,"endTime":3557.57,"body":"calculating it based on SDNN."},{"startTime":3557.57,"endTime":3558.73,"body":"And we'll get into this."},{"startTime":3558.73,"endTime":3564.02,"body":"Whereas the chest strap is using RMSSD,"},{"startTime":3558.73,"endTime":3564.02,"body":"which is pretty much what the Aura and"},{"startTime":3564.02,"endTime":3567.35,"body":"every other device out there uses RMSSD."},{"startTime":3567.35,"endTime":3572.22,"body":"So I've had this history of people on the"},{"startTime":3567.35,"endTime":3572.22,"body":"internet in DMs and stuff being like,"},{"startTime":3572.22,"endTime":3573.95,"body":"dude, your HRV is in the 200s."},{"startTime":3573.95,"endTime":3575.27,"body":"How's that even possible?"},{"startTime":3575.27,"endTime":3579.43,"body":"And I've realized it's because the Apple"},{"startTime":3575.27,"endTime":3579.43,"body":"Watch uses SDNN to calculate it, which"},{"startTime":3579.43,"endTime":3579.938,"body":"just..."},{"startTime":3579.938,"endTime":3581.078,"body":"gives it a higher number."},{"startTime":3581.078,"endTime":3586.708,"body":"But regardless of that, my HRV on the one"},{"startTime":3581.078,"endTime":3586.708,"body":"to a hundred scale is in the high"},{"startTime":3586.708,"endTime":3592.638,"body":"seventies, which is an RMSSD of like 170,"},{"startTime":3586.708,"endTime":3592.638,"body":"165, something like that."},{"startTime":3592.638,"endTime":3594.898,"body":"And my resting heart rate is low."},{"startTime":3594.898,"endTime":3597.828,"body":"My VO2 max is, we don't exactly know."},{"startTime":3597.828,"endTime":3600.818,"body":"It's not awful if I'm rowing a 703 2K."},{"startTime":3600.818,"endTime":3603.438,"body":"And so yet I'm still breathing."},{"startTime":3603.438,"endTime":3607.548,"body":"I'm over breathing at night and I can't"},{"startTime":3603.438,"endTime":3607.548,"body":"figure out how to stop that because I"},{"startTime":3607.548,"endTime":3609.442,"body":"think it's also impacting my sleep."},{"startTime":3609.442,"endTime":3611.522,"body":"And so this was really insightful."},{"startTime":3611.682,"endTime":3616.292,"body":"And so I'm gonna actually talk to you off"},{"startTime":3611.682,"endTime":3616.292,"body":"air at some point about the breath rate"},{"startTime":3616.292,"endTime":3619.002,"body":"control during zone two and walking and"},{"startTime":3616.292,"endTime":3619.002,"body":"stuff like that."},{"startTime":3619.002,"endTime":3623.732,"body":"So I can start trying to target that a"},{"startTime":3619.002,"endTime":3623.732,"body":"little bit, but because we only, yeah,"},{"startTime":3623.732,"endTime":3624.826,"body":"yeah, yeah, go for it."},{"startTime":3625.262,"endTime":3627.362,"body":"Make sure you go through a period."},{"startTime":3627.362,"endTime":3631.292,"body":"So watch your breath rate during your next"},{"startTime":3627.362,"endTime":3631.292,"body":"deload or your taper because breath rate"},{"startTime":3631.292,"endTime":3633.922,"body":"will go up based off of a stressor."},{"startTime":3633.922,"endTime":3635.982,"body":"And it's one of the first things to"},{"startTime":3633.922,"endTime":3635.982,"body":"change."},{"startTime":3635.982,"endTime":3639.652,"body":"So some people may have a higher"},{"startTime":3635.982,"endTime":3639.652,"body":"respiratory rate, but they just may be"},{"startTime":3639.652,"endTime":3640.142,"body":"overreached."},{"startTime":3640.142,"endTime":3643.612,"body":"I'm not saying this is you, but I'm saying"},{"startTime":3640.142,"endTime":3643.612,"body":"I've had that with a few clients where we"},{"startTime":3643.612,"endTime":3647.812,"body":"just deloaded them for sometimes like 10"},{"startTime":3643.612,"endTime":3647.812,"body":"days, their respiratory rate completely"},{"startTime":3647.812,"endTime":3648.892,"body":"normalized."},{"startTime":3648.95,"endTime":3654.35,"body":"So that tells me it was response to an"},{"startTime":3648.95,"endTime":3654.35,"body":"acute stressor, not necessarily the chemo"},{"startTime":3654.35,"endTime":3656.13,"body":"receptor stuff we talked about."},{"startTime":3656.13,"endTime":3659.03,"body":"Second thing, look at respiratory"},{"startTime":3656.13,"endTime":3659.03,"body":"mechanics."},{"startTime":3659.03,"endTime":3663.25,"body":"So I use a lot of RPR, reflexive"},{"startTime":3659.03,"endTime":3663.25,"body":"performance reset."},{"startTime":3663.27,"endTime":3667.79,"body":"Any pickup you can get in respiratory"},{"startTime":3663.27,"endTime":3667.79,"body":"mechanics and rib cage expansion, most of"},{"startTime":3667.79,"endTime":3670.19,"body":"the time respiratory rate will go down"},{"startTime":3667.79,"endTime":3670.19,"body":"also."},{"startTime":3670.19,"endTime":3673.81,"body":"If that changes, then you're probably"},{"startTime":3670.19,"endTime":3673.81,"body":"okay."},{"startTime":3673.81,"endTime":3676.018,"body":"So those are the two caveats to look at"},{"startTime":3673.81,"endTime":3676.018,"body":"too."},{"startTime":3676.258,"endTime":3677.618,"body":"Okay, cool, noted."},{"startTime":3677.618,"endTime":3682.238,"body":"I also had a question on here to discuss"},{"startTime":3677.618,"endTime":3682.238,"body":"the difference between why you use the"},{"startTime":3682.238,"endTime":3686.718,"body":"exhale test and the versus the bolt test,"},{"startTime":3682.238,"endTime":3686.718,"body":"but you addressed that."},{"startTime":3686.718,"endTime":3690.108,"body":"So the one thing I just find very"},{"startTime":3686.718,"endTime":3690.108,"body":"interesting on this is so I've been using"},{"startTime":3690.108,"endTime":3694.608,"body":"both since you introduced me to the exhale"},{"startTime":3690.108,"endTime":3694.608,"body":"test, I feel like you can cheat both of"},{"startTime":3694.608,"endTime":3695.458,"body":"them."},{"startTime":3695.738,"endTime":3697.298,"body":"Like, yeah."},{"startTime":3698.578,"endTime":3703.328,"body":"So the exhale test is interesting because"},{"startTime":3698.578,"endTime":3703.328,"body":"you can exhale really, really, really"},{"startTime":3703.328,"endTime":3704.358,"body":"slowly."},{"startTime":3704.802,"endTime":3708.422,"body":"And eventually you can get to a point"},{"startTime":3704.802,"endTime":3708.422,"body":"where you're almost doing a bolt test, but"},{"startTime":3708.422,"endTime":3711.212,"body":"you still can convince yourself that"},{"startTime":3708.422,"endTime":3711.212,"body":"you're still exhaling, but you don't"},{"startTime":3711.212,"endTime":3713.202,"body":"actually have much exhale left."},{"startTime":3713.222,"endTime":3715.002,"body":"So I thought that was interesting."},{"startTime":3715.002,"endTime":3718.502,"body":"As far as the bolt test specifically"},{"startTime":3715.002,"endTime":3718.502,"body":"though, when you talk about the first"},{"startTime":3718.502,"endTime":3723.392,"body":"desire to breathe, I think it's very"},{"startTime":3718.502,"endTime":3723.392,"body":"apparent when your diaphragm starts doing"},{"startTime":3723.392,"endTime":3724.262,"body":"weird things."},{"startTime":3724.262,"endTime":3727.412,"body":"When you're doing the bolt test and then"},{"startTime":3724.262,"endTime":3727.412,"body":"you kind of feel this like little, this"},{"startTime":3727.412,"endTime":3729.382,"body":"little like hitch in your diaphragm."},{"startTime":3729.382,"endTime":3732.222,"body":"To me, that's the point where I'm like,"},{"startTime":3729.382,"endTime":3732.222,"body":"oh, that's the end of the test right"},{"startTime":3732.222,"endTime":3732.964,"body":"there."},{"startTime":3733.142,"endTime":3737.482,"body":"Yeah, your diaphragm starts spasming like"},{"startTime":3733.142,"endTime":3737.482,"body":"you may have went too far on the test."},{"startTime":3737.634,"endTime":3739.874,"body":"Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly."},{"startTime":3739.954,"endTime":3744.744,"body":"But you will find that you generally get a"},{"startTime":3739.954,"endTime":3744.744,"body":"much higher score on the exhale test than"},{"startTime":3744.744,"endTime":3746.554,"body":"you would on the bolt test, right?"},{"startTime":3747.222,"endTime":3750.602,"body":"Yeah, they're different scales and they're"},{"startTime":3747.222,"endTime":3750.602,"body":"just different things."},{"startTime":3750.662,"endTime":3753.732,"body":"The exhaled test, you're looking to more"},{"startTime":3750.662,"endTime":3753.732,"body":"of that eccentric control of the"},{"startTime":3753.732,"endTime":3754.192,"body":"diaphragm."},{"startTime":3754.192,"endTime":3758.592,"body":"So you're trying to get at some of the"},{"startTime":3754.192,"endTime":3758.592,"body":"chemoreceptive stuff, but also some of the"},{"startTime":3758.592,"endTime":3760.182,"body":"mechanics type stuff too."},{"startTime":3760.182,"endTime":3764.202,"body":"And, you I've done in -person stuff, hands"},{"startTime":3760.182,"endTime":3764.202,"body":"-on work on people and their exhaled test"},{"startTime":3764.202,"endTime":3768.042,"body":"sometimes has gone up by 15 or 20 seconds,"},{"startTime":3764.202,"endTime":3768.042,"body":"just getting better mechanics too."},{"startTime":3768.042,"endTime":3770.362,"body":"So they're all tied to each other."},{"startTime":3771.266,"endTime":3772.166,"body":"Gotcha."},{"startTime":3772.206,"endTime":3773.006,"body":"All right, cool."},{"startTime":3773.006,"endTime":3775.046,"body":"Well, we have just a few minutes left."},{"startTime":3775.046,"endTime":3777.546,"body":"I had two questions to go."},{"startTime":3777.886,"endTime":3785.086,"body":"One was on HRV, really to kind of just"},{"startTime":3777.886,"endTime":3785.086,"body":"parse out the difference between the RMSSD"},{"startTime":3785.086,"endTime":3791.366,"body":"and the SDNN because of what I discussed"},{"startTime":3785.086,"endTime":3791.366,"body":"earlier about my HRV being so apparently"},{"startTime":3791.366,"endTime":3795.516,"body":"so much higher with Apple Watch than what"},{"startTime":3791.366,"endTime":3795.516,"body":"most people are receiving with their"},{"startTime":3795.516,"endTime":3797.026,"body":"RMSSD."},{"startTime":3797.506,"endTime":3800.016,"body":"and then kind of how that plays into"},{"startTime":3797.506,"endTime":3800.016,"body":"breathing and recovery."},{"startTime":3800.016,"endTime":3804.036,"body":"And we don't need to go super down the"},{"startTime":3800.016,"endTime":3804.036,"body":"rabbit hole here, but if you have just any"},{"startTime":3804.036,"endTime":3807.986,"body":"kind of thoughts to distinguish between"},{"startTime":3804.036,"endTime":3807.986,"body":"those two models and what you prefer to"},{"startTime":3807.986,"endTime":3808.694,"body":"use."},{"startTime":3808.694,"endTime":3812.634,"body":"Yeah, the short version is I like using a"},{"startTime":3808.694,"endTime":3812.634,"body":"time domain measurement."},{"startTime":3812.634,"endTime":3814.904,"body":"I don't use a lot of nonlinear frequency"},{"startTime":3812.634,"endTime":3814.904,"body":"based stuff."},{"startTime":3814.904,"endTime":3816.404,"body":"People can look up that."},{"startTime":3816.404,"endTime":3820.914,"body":"A great article called Everything Hurts by"},{"startTime":3816.404,"endTime":3820.914,"body":"James Heather that covers all that and"},{"startTime":3820.914,"endTime":3822.834,"body":"excruciatingly detail."},{"startTime":3823.454,"endTime":3827.384,"body":"Most people need to double check what HRV"},{"startTime":3823.454,"endTime":3827.384,"body":"method the watch or whatever thing they're"},{"startTime":3827.384,"endTime":3831.644,"body":"using because everybody wants to go now to"},{"startTime":3827.384,"endTime":3831.644,"body":"a proprietary method or a different"},{"startTime":3831.644,"endTime":3832.414,"body":"method."},{"startTime":3832.414,"endTime":3835.694,"body":"And most of the time you can't compare one"},{"startTime":3832.414,"endTime":3835.694,"body":"device to the other."},{"startTime":3835.694,"endTime":3838.326,"body":"Also devices that accumulate over sleep."},{"startTime":3838.326,"endTime":3842.876,"body":"They work, but if you've got a low resting"},{"startTime":3838.326,"endTime":3842.876,"body":"heart rate like you do, you may not see"},{"startTime":3842.876,"endTime":3847.266,"body":"that HRV change all that much to something"},{"startTime":3842.876,"endTime":3847.266,"body":"called parasympathetic saturation."},{"startTime":3847.426,"endTime":3850.346,"body":"And then that tends to be a more lagging"},{"startTime":3847.426,"endTime":3850.346,"body":"indicator."},{"startTime":3850.346,"endTime":3854.506,"body":"So somebody really wants to dial in heart"},{"startTime":3850.346,"endTime":3854.506,"body":"rate variability and they want to use it"},{"startTime":3854.506,"endTime":3856.706,"body":"to change daily training."},{"startTime":3856.726,"endTime":3860.166,"body":"I'll use like, I use the iFleet strap is"},{"startTime":3856.726,"endTime":3860.166,"body":"what I use in the morning."},{"startTime":3860.166,"endTime":3864.726,"body":"Just put that on, do a measurement or some"},{"startTime":3860.166,"endTime":3864.726,"body":"type of dedicated measurement done first"},{"startTime":3864.726,"endTime":3865.766,"body":"thing in the morning."},{"startTime":3865.766,"endTime":3868.086,"body":"That's going to be a lot more"},{"startTime":3865.766,"endTime":3868.086,"body":"representative and it's..."},{"startTime":3868.086,"endTime":3872.356,"body":"It is still affected by sleep because"},{"startTime":3868.086,"endTime":3872.356,"body":"sleep loss is a stressor, but it doesn't"},{"startTime":3872.356,"endTime":3875.586,"body":"mess up the data accumulation at night."},{"startTime":3875.586,"endTime":3879.606,"body":"So if you had a poor night's sleep, yes,"},{"startTime":3875.586,"endTime":3879.606,"body":"that's going to affect your stress level."},{"startTime":3879.606,"endTime":3883.776,"body":"But also the data you gathered now over a"},{"startTime":3879.606,"endTime":3883.776,"body":"four hour period versus an eight hour"},{"startTime":3883.776,"endTime":3886.026,"body":"period, it's not as stable."},{"startTime":3886.026,"endTime":3889.59,"body":"So one time measurement first thing in the"},{"startTime":3886.026,"endTime":3889.59,"body":"morning is generally what I like to use."},{"startTime":3889.922,"endTime":3895.242,"body":"Yeah, I switched to the chest strap, the"},{"startTime":3889.922,"endTime":3895.242,"body":"Polar chest strap with the Elite HRV app,"},{"startTime":3895.282,"endTime":3900.592,"body":"which converts, yeah, it converts the"},{"startTime":3895.282,"endTime":3900.592,"body":"score, the RMSSD score to a one to a"},{"startTime":3900.592,"endTime":3901.362,"body":"hundred scale."},{"startTime":3901.362,"endTime":3904.242,"body":"So it kind of makes it like super obvious"},{"startTime":3901.362,"endTime":3904.242,"body":"and apparent for you in the morning."},{"startTime":3904.242,"endTime":3905.232,"body":"And I've really enjoyed that."},{"startTime":3905.232,"endTime":3909.192,"body":"I think it's much more consistent than"},{"startTime":3905.232,"endTime":3909.192,"body":"what I was getting with the Apple watch as"},{"startTime":3909.192,"endTime":3910.362,"body":"well."},{"startTime":3910.982,"endTime":3911.77,"body":"All right, yeah."},{"startTime":3911.77,"endTime":3914.85,"body":"Apple Watch is the optical will also"},{"startTime":3911.77,"endTime":3914.85,"body":"affect it."},{"startTime":3914.85,"endTime":3918.79,"body":"So skin pigmentation, how tight the watch"},{"startTime":3914.85,"endTime":3918.79,"body":"is, where the watch is, does it move"},{"startTime":3918.79,"endTime":3919.5,"body":"around at night?"},{"startTime":3919.5,"endTime":3921.11,"body":"All that stuff can affect it."},{"startTime":3921.11,"endTime":3924.462,"body":"So you really have to look at the"},{"startTime":3921.11,"endTime":3924.462,"body":"literature to see how they validated it."},{"startTime":3925.218,"endTime":3929.428,"body":"So the last thing, and I'm just really"},{"startTime":3925.218,"endTime":3929.428,"body":"curious on your thoughts here, because I"},{"startTime":3929.428,"endTime":3933.858,"body":"think this is something that I get a lot"},{"startTime":3929.428,"endTime":3933.858,"body":"of feedback on from people across the"},{"startTime":3933.858,"endTime":3937.378,"body":"industry is you get all these longevity"},{"startTime":3933.858,"endTime":3937.378,"body":"experts."},{"startTime":3937.458,"endTime":3942.898,"body":"And I'm just going to call out Peter Attia"},{"startTime":3937.458,"endTime":3942.898,"body":"and Indigo Sanmilaan as the main two."},{"startTime":3942.898,"endTime":3950.478,"body":"But they're always talking about how your"},{"startTime":3942.898,"endTime":3950.478,"body":"quality of life is going to suffer if you"},{"startTime":3950.478,"endTime":3952.416,"body":"cannot achieve."},{"startTime":3952.416,"endTime":3956.786,"body":"X VO2 max and they throw out some really"},{"startTime":3952.416,"endTime":3956.786,"body":"crazy number like in your forties, you"},{"startTime":3956.786,"endTime":3959.006,"body":"should have a 50 plus VO2 max."},{"startTime":3959.006,"endTime":3964.306,"body":"And then they're like for your zone two"},{"startTime":3959.006,"endTime":3964.306,"body":"work, you know, a bare minimum to not have"},{"startTime":3964.306,"endTime":3969.486,"body":"metabolic dysfunction is to be able to do"},{"startTime":3964.306,"endTime":3969.486,"body":"your zone two work at two Watts per kilo,"},{"startTime":3969.486,"endTime":3974.396,"body":"which I don't know too many people that I"},{"startTime":3969.486,"endTime":3974.396,"body":"would consider healthy that are out there"},{"startTime":3974.396,"endTime":3978.686,"body":"doing two Watts per kilo and keeping their"},{"startTime":3974.396,"endTime":3978.686,"body":"heart rate in zone two."},{"startTime":3978.966,"endTime":3980.65,"body":"And so like,"},{"startTime":3980.65,"endTime":3983.28,"body":"I don't know, it seems almost like a scare"},{"startTime":3980.65,"endTime":3983.28,"body":"tactic in a way."},{"startTime":3983.28,"endTime":3986.66,"body":"And a lot of people are freaked out like,"},{"startTime":3983.28,"endTime":3986.66,"body":"oh my God, I have metabolic dysfunction,"},{"startTime":3986.66,"endTime":3987.54,"body":"I'm not healthy."},{"startTime":3987.54,"endTime":3992.5,"body":"And these crazy large numbers that are"},{"startTime":3987.54,"endTime":3992.5,"body":"being thrown out by these guys, what do"},{"startTime":3992.5,"endTime":3993.38,"body":"you make of that?"},{"startTime":3993.38,"endTime":3996.058,"body":"And like, how important is it?"},{"startTime":3997.238,"endTime":4001.758,"body":"To me, the best way I found to simplify it"},{"startTime":3997.238,"endTime":4001.758,"body":"is like, just go off your VO2 max."},{"startTime":4001.758,"endTime":4005.338,"body":"Like I don't really give two hoots as much"},{"startTime":4001.758,"endTime":4005.338,"body":"about your zone two stuff."},{"startTime":4005.338,"endTime":4009.038,"body":"If your VO2 max is 30, you got work to do."},{"startTime":4009.038,"endTime":4013.938,"body":"Now, if you look at the research, like"},{"startTime":4009.038,"endTime":4013.938,"body":"going from absolute complete trash at"},{"startTime":4013.938,"endTime":4019.188,"body":"like, you know, 15 to even 30, you see a"},{"startTime":4013.938,"endTime":4019.188,"body":"massive increase, right?"},{"startTime":4019.188,"endTime":4023.818,"body":"So the biggest change in percentage is"},{"startTime":4019.188,"endTime":4023.818,"body":"going from absolutely horrible to like"},{"startTime":4023.818,"endTime":4025.622,"body":"average, you know?"},{"startTime":4025.622,"endTime":4028.122,"body":"Average to elite, do you still see a fair"},{"startTime":4025.622,"endTime":4028.122,"body":"amount of pickup?"},{"startTime":4028.122,"endTime":4029.742,"body":"Yeah, you do."},{"startTime":4029.782,"endTime":4031.242,"body":"What number should you hit?"},{"startTime":4031.242,"endTime":4035.962,"body":"I know Andy's talked about, you know, 50,"},{"startTime":4031.242,"endTime":4035.962,"body":"you know, milliliters per kg per minute."},{"startTime":4036.082,"endTime":4037.182,"body":"Probably a pretty good number."},{"startTime":4037.182,"endTime":4039.242,"body":"I would say is that on the higher side?"},{"startTime":4039.242,"endTime":4040.202,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4040.202,"endTime":4044.642,"body":"But we also know it's going to decline at"},{"startTime":4040.202,"endTime":4044.642,"body":"some point, no matter what you do."},{"startTime":4045.282,"endTime":4049.042,"body":"The, like you said, the zone two range for"},{"startTime":4045.282,"endTime":4049.042,"body":"that."},{"startTime":4049.042,"endTime":4053.032,"body":"Most of that data, you know, from, you"},{"startTime":4049.042,"endTime":4053.032,"body":"know, Alon's work is in elite level"},{"startTime":4053.032,"endTime":4053.942,"body":"cyclists."},{"startTime":4053.942,"endTime":4056.012,"body":"So yeah, should an elite level cyclist be"},{"startTime":4053.942,"endTime":4056.012,"body":"able to pull that off?"},{"startTime":4056.012,"endTime":4057.162,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":4057.162,"endTime":4061.162,"body":"Do elite level cyclists do more than two"},{"startTime":4057.162,"endTime":4061.162,"body":"to three hours of zone two work a week?"},{"startTime":4061.162,"endTime":4064.282,"body":"Yeah, because they're psychotic, crazy"},{"startTime":4061.162,"endTime":4064.282,"body":"people, right?"},{"startTime":4064.282,"endTime":4067.012,"body":"And if you don't tell them to do zone two"},{"startTime":4064.282,"endTime":4067.012,"body":"stuff, you tell them, bro, just chill out"},{"startTime":4067.012,"endTime":4069.292,"body":"and do a walk, they're going to get on"},{"startTime":4067.012,"endTime":4069.292,"body":"their bike and ride around the"},{"startTime":4069.292,"endTime":4071.632,"body":"neighborhood as fast as they can or"},{"startTime":4069.292,"endTime":4071.632,"body":"something again, right?"},{"startTime":4071.632,"endTime":4072.742,"body":"They're insane."},{"startTime":4072.742,"endTime":4076.512,"body":"So does that mean the average person needs"},{"startTime":4072.742,"endTime":4076.512,"body":"to do two to three hours of zone two a"},{"startTime":4076.512,"endTime":4077.382,"body":"week?"},{"startTime":4077.422,"endTime":4080.662,"body":"Yeah, there's a time and a place for it,"},{"startTime":4077.422,"endTime":4080.662,"body":"but I don't, as much as I love Peter"},{"startTime":4080.662,"endTime":4081.81,"body":"Atiyah's stuff."},{"startTime":4081.974,"endTime":4086.354,"body":"I don't think you need to do two to three"},{"startTime":4081.974,"endTime":4086.354,"body":"hours of zone two stuff every week for the"},{"startTime":4086.354,"endTime":4087.234,"body":"rest of your life."},{"startTime":4087.234,"endTime":4092.294,"body":"I would much rather see people invest that"},{"startTime":4087.234,"endTime":4092.294,"body":"time into, yep, a block of zone two stuff,"},{"startTime":4092.294,"endTime":4093.974,"body":"get a good base, cool."},{"startTime":4093.974,"endTime":4097.974,"body":"Let's go into a block of seeing if we can"},{"startTime":4093.974,"endTime":4097.974,"body":"increase your VO2 max, great."},{"startTime":4097.974,"endTime":4102.724,"body":"Okay, let's put something else on priority"},{"startTime":4097.974,"endTime":4102.724,"body":"and let's see how we can hold our VO2 max"},{"startTime":4102.724,"endTime":4106.834,"body":"at that level that doesn't take that much"},{"startTime":4102.724,"endTime":4106.834,"body":"effort to hold a certain output."},{"startTime":4107.1939999999995,"endTime":4109.134,"body":"That's what I would rather do."},{"startTime":4109.814,"endTime":4113.014,"body":"Again, my big thing is looking at what is"},{"startTime":4109.814,"endTime":4113.014,"body":"the output."},{"startTime":4113.014,"endTime":4114.244000000001,"body":"And again, in what context?"},{"startTime":4114.244000000001,"endTime":4117.114,"body":"If someone's already lifting, they're"},{"startTime":4114.244000000001,"endTime":4117.114,"body":"eating relatively good, their sleep is"},{"startTime":4117.114,"endTime":4120.884,"body":"good, they're getting their walks in,"},{"startTime":4117.114,"endTime":4120.884,"body":"yeah, like their risk of metabolic"},{"startTime":4120.884,"endTime":4123.434,"body":"dysfunction is incredibly rare."},{"startTime":4123.434,"endTime":4128.614,"body":"And I love Peter Atiyah's stuff, I think"},{"startTime":4123.434,"endTime":4128.614,"body":"it's great, but he's also a crazy person,"},{"startTime":4128.614,"endTime":4128.884,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":4128.884,"endTime":4133.994,"body":"To him, like he was highly competitive in"},{"startTime":4128.884,"endTime":4133.994,"body":"the past by his own admission, so a lot of"},{"startTime":4133.994,"endTime":4137.942,"body":"the stuff he does is to that 90th plus"},{"startTime":4133.994,"endTime":4137.942,"body":"percentile."},{"startTime":4137.942,"endTime":4139.322,"body":"And again, for him, that's great."},{"startTime":4139.322,"endTime":4140.982,"body":"If it's something you want to do, awesome."},{"startTime":4140.982,"endTime":4142.142,"body":"Is it beneficial?"},{"startTime":4142.142,"endTime":4142.962,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4142.962,"endTime":4146.272,"body":"But, you know, telling the average lifter"},{"startTime":4142.962,"endTime":4146.272,"body":"that they need to do another three hours"},{"startTime":4146.272,"endTime":4149.762,"body":"of zone two cardio for like years on end."},{"startTime":4149.762,"endTime":4153.582,"body":"Yeah, it's it's some benefit if you're"},{"startTime":4149.762,"endTime":4153.582,"body":"doing it for recovery purposes."},{"startTime":4153.582,"endTime":4154.222,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":4154.222,"endTime":4161.342,"body":"But zone two, you know, VO2 max pickups"},{"startTime":4154.222,"endTime":4161.342,"body":"are just almost nonexistent."},{"startTime":4161.342,"endTime":4164.402,"body":"Again, as a good base, I've had people do"},{"startTime":4161.342,"endTime":4164.402,"body":"zone two."},{"startTime":4164.402,"endTime":4165.462,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":4165.462,"endTime":4167.582,"body":"But you're around that level of movement."},{"startTime":4167.582,"endTime":4171.892,"body":"I would much rather have people, you know,"},{"startTime":4167.582,"endTime":4171.892,"body":"like you guys go ride a bike, go learn to"},{"startTime":4171.892,"endTime":4172.942,"body":"surf, go kiteboard."},{"startTime":4172.942,"endTime":4175.702,"body":"At this point, even learn to play"},{"startTime":4172.942,"endTime":4175.702,"body":"pickleball for Christ's sake."},{"startTime":4175.702,"endTime":4179.242,"body":"Like just put your body in a place where"},{"startTime":4175.702,"endTime":4179.242,"body":"you're going to get movement."},{"startTime":4179.242,"endTime":4180.802,"body":"You're going to get increased heart rate."},{"startTime":4180.802,"endTime":4184.132,"body":"You're actually going to use your brain to"},{"startTime":4180.802,"endTime":4184.132,"body":"not be a sea slug because you've got to"},{"startTime":4184.132,"endTime":4186.662,"body":"coordinate all these moving things in"},{"startTime":4184.132,"endTime":4186.662,"body":"space."},{"startTime":4186.662,"endTime":4192.482,"body":"I think we'll realize at some point there"},{"startTime":4186.662,"endTime":4192.482,"body":"is a detriment to not moving on an indoor"},{"startTime":4192.482,"endTime":4194.47,"body":"bike for three hours a week."},{"startTime":4194.55,"endTime":4198.17,"body":"And especially if you can do something"},{"startTime":4194.55,"endTime":4198.17,"body":"else with that time, like go do some"},{"startTime":4198.17,"endTime":4198.95,"body":"recreation."},{"startTime":4198.95,"endTime":4199.938,"body":"That's my bias."},{"startTime":4199.938,"endTime":4202.078,"body":"Yeah, no, I love that."},{"startTime":4202.078,"endTime":4209.218,"body":"So you would not say that mitochondrial"},{"startTime":4202.078,"endTime":4209.218,"body":"function correlates directly with your"},{"startTime":4209.218,"endTime":4211.44,"body":"output at zone two."},{"startTime":4212.374,"endTime":4218.004,"body":"Yes and no, it's so hard to say is it"},{"startTime":4212.374,"endTime":4218.004,"body":"mitochondrial only because you've got, you"},{"startTime":4218.004,"endTime":4221.544,"body":"know, fatigue, you can look at what fuels"},{"startTime":4218.004,"endTime":4221.544,"body":"are using, are you primarily using fat?"},{"startTime":4221.544,"endTime":4224.124,"body":"Are you one of these people that is super"},{"startTime":4221.544,"endTime":4224.124,"body":"high stress?"},{"startTime":4224.124,"endTime":4227.234,"body":"So you're just burning through"},{"startTime":4224.124,"endTime":4227.234,"body":"carbohydrates doing zone two, which I have"},{"startTime":4227.234,"endTime":4228.914,"body":"seen off a metabolic heart."},{"startTime":4228.914,"endTime":4231.194,"body":"So those are some other things I would"},{"startTime":4228.914,"endTime":4231.194,"body":"look at."},{"startTime":4231.194,"endTime":4235.684,"body":"And if people really want to go to the nth"},{"startTime":4231.194,"endTime":4235.684,"body":"degree, I don't know who I sold this from."},{"startTime":4235.684,"endTime":4237.414,"body":"So I would give them credit."},{"startTime":4237.414,"endTime":4241.046,"body":"I would much rather see an average general"},{"startTime":4237.414,"endTime":4241.046,"body":"population lifter."},{"startTime":4241.046,"endTime":4244.066,"body":"do zone two stuff in three modalities."},{"startTime":4244.066,"endTime":4245.846,"body":"Can you do zone two on a rower?"},{"startTime":4245.846,"endTime":4247.286,"body":"Can you do zone two running?"},{"startTime":4247.286,"endTime":4249.266,"body":"And can you do zone two on a bike?"},{"startTime":4249.266,"endTime":4252.406,"body":"So for myself, I can probably get by on"},{"startTime":4249.266,"endTime":4252.406,"body":"zone two on a rower."},{"startTime":4252.406,"endTime":4254.206,"body":"I can definitely do it on a bike."},{"startTime":4254.206,"endTime":4256.726,"body":"Running, I absolutely fricking suck at."},{"startTime":4256.726,"endTime":4260.986,"body":"The pace I got, I can't even really run"},{"startTime":4256.726,"endTime":4260.986,"body":"and stay on zone two if I'm perfectly"},{"startTime":4260.986,"endTime":4261.966,"body":"honest."},{"startTime":4262.006,"endTime":4264.276,"body":"So that's something I would probably need"},{"startTime":4262.006,"endTime":4264.276,"body":"to work on."},{"startTime":4264.276,"endTime":4269.006,"body":"I'd much rather see them movement"},{"startTime":4264.276,"endTime":4269.006,"body":"competency in three different movements"},{"startTime":4269.006,"endTime":4271.062,"body":"and hit zone two than I would be."},{"startTime":4271.062,"endTime":4274.094,"body":"You know, stay on a bike for three hours a"},{"startTime":4271.062,"endTime":4274.094,"body":"week."},{"startTime":4274.83,"endTime":4276.13,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":4276.13,"endTime":4276.77,"body":"Yeah, that's great."},{"startTime":4276.77,"endTime":4278.27,"body":"I appreciate that, Mike."},{"startTime":4278.45,"endTime":4280.17,"body":"That is all the time we have."},{"startTime":4280.17,"endTime":4281.43,"body":"You've answered all of my questions."},{"startTime":4281.43,"endTime":4284.11,"body":"I really, really appreciate you giving us"},{"startTime":4281.43,"endTime":4284.11,"body":"your time."},{"startTime":4284.11,"endTime":4285.03,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4285.03,"endTime":4287.01,"body":"Really appreciate it."},{"startTime":4287.89,"endTime":4288.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4288.31,"endTime":4291.24,"body":"Can you let us know where everyone can"},{"startTime":4288.31,"endTime":4291.24,"body":"find you, all that good stuff?"},{"startTime":4291.24,"endTime":4293.114,"body":"And then Aaron, any thoughts to wrap up?"},{"startTime":4293.472,"endTime":4297.002,"body":"Yeah, best place is the website, which is"},{"startTime":4293.472,"endTime":4297.002,"body":"miketnelson .com."},{"startTime":4297.002,"endTime":4301.322,"body":"Most of, probably 90 % of the content I do"},{"startTime":4297.002,"endTime":4301.322,"body":"goes out over the newsletter."},{"startTime":4301.422,"endTime":4304.742,"body":"So you can just go on there, sign up the"},{"startTime":4301.422,"endTime":4304.742,"body":"newsletter, tell me you heard me on this"},{"startTime":4304.742,"endTime":4307.082,"body":"show and I'll send you a cool free gift."},{"startTime":4307.082,"endTime":4308.842,"body":"But that's probably the best place."},{"startTime":4308.842,"endTime":4311.55,"body":"miketnelson .com and then newsletter."},{"startTime":4313.792,"endTime":4314.602,"body":"Awesome, wonderful."},{"startTime":4314.602,"endTime":4317.162,"body":"Yeah, we'll have all that stuff linked up"},{"startTime":4314.602,"endTime":4317.162,"body":"in the show notes below."},{"startTime":4317.162,"endTime":4321.442,"body":"This was very, very cool episode for me"},{"startTime":4317.162,"endTime":4321.442,"body":"to, I mean, I effectively was almost like"},{"startTime":4321.442,"endTime":4326.322,"body":"a listener on this episode and it was"},{"startTime":4321.442,"endTime":4326.322,"body":"pretty cool just to learn some new things."},{"startTime":4326.322,"endTime":4328.682,"body":"I have some thoughts swirling around in my"},{"startTime":4326.322,"endTime":4328.682,"body":"head."},{"startTime":4328.682,"endTime":4333.322,"body":"It might turn into, I get like halfway"},{"startTime":4328.682,"endTime":4333.322,"body":"through one session and I'm like, what the"},{"startTime":4333.322,"endTime":4334.122,"body":"fuck was I thinking?"},{"startTime":4334.122,"endTime":4336.382,"body":"I cannot do this, but we'll see."},{"startTime":4336.382,"endTime":4337.338,"body":"So we'll."},{"startTime":4338.37,"endTime":4341.55,"body":"Well, keep us updated on the podcast in"},{"startTime":4338.37,"endTime":4341.55,"body":"future episodes, Traeger."},{"startTime":4341.55,"endTime":4342.114,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4342.114,"endTime":4343.034,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":4343.294,"endTime":4344.986,"body":"Thanks for joining us, Mike."},{"startTime":4345.622,"endTime":4346.842,"body":"Yeah, thank you guys, I appreciate it."},{"startTime":4346.842,"endTime":4348.76,"body":"I appreciate all the great questions,"},{"startTime":4346.842,"endTime":4348.76,"body":"that's fine."}]}