Amateur to Pro: Aaron's Bodybuilding Season Experience | ETP#200

In milestone episode 200 we reflect on Aaron's first bodybuilding season, and Aaron shares insights on his experience. We cover Aaron’s Pro Show in Hong Kong, the challenges he faced, and the lessons learned about nutrition and gear. The conversation also touches on upcoming life changes, including Aaron's wedding and plans for the future, emphasizing the importance of confidence and taking risks in pursuing one's passions.

Timestamps:

00:00 Celebrating Milestones and Reflections

09:22 Aaron's Bodybuilding Journey

18:20 The Pro Show Experience

26:53 Insights on Gear and Training

42:30 Upcoming Life Changes and Future Plans

50:56 Reflections and Advice for the Future

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Transcript

0:26

What is going on guys? Happy Monday or Tuesday, depending on when you are listening in from welcome to Eat, Train, Prosper. Today is episode 200, a pretty big cool milestone episode. A little bit of backstory. Brian and I, we are in our fifth full time year. We started right at the beginning of 2021. So we are, you know, wrapping up Q3. of our fifth year of Eat, Train, Prosper. So that's really, really cool that we've just done it this long, you know, uh stuck together, have had pretty much no real issues working with each other for such a long period of time, which I think is really, really cool. I'm really, really happy about. um And today's episode is on recapping my bodybuilding season, or what I should say is my first bodybuilding season. So. We're going talk about that, a little bit of what's next, but before we dive in, always, Brian, what's the latest with you? Yeah, I have a couple updates, but before I do, feel like we should reflect back quickly on episode 100, which was our biggest milestone episode up until this point, I guess. And in episode 100, we did a full like research breakdown and discussion around something that I called evidence-based nihilism, which I think still to this day has a lot of applicability. The idea being that with all of these studies that are coming out showing that this is better than that, or high volumes are better, or high frequency is better, or all of these different avenues that people can get stuck on and feel as if this is the thing that's really gonna make the difference in their training. What this episode, episode 100 did for us was break down some of the individual data that demonstrated that, one study might show... at a large perspective that higher volumes or higher frequencies or whatever is better at a global population level. But when you actually break down and extract the individual data from that study and you can see what each individual participant did, you'll notice that just as an example, say there were 20 participants and the study showed high volumes were better. You might see 12 of those subjects in fact did produce better results with higher volumes, but six of them had better results with lower volumes and two of them had equal results with high volumes or low volumes. So uh I think it's worth going back and listening to episode 100 at this point and reflecting back on where we were a little over two years ago, both in the evidence-based space, but also in our current lives as well. And I think that episode is a classic and uh just kind of reflecting on it a little as we're now at episode 200. So some initial thoughts there, but as far as my updates go, I have two pretty quick ones. Last week I got to go to N1 and train with Cass for the first time in a while. We've been trying to arrange a session together pretty much all summer and my life has just been so busy. I feel like Cass's life is more... regimented and structured and that, you know, we're training these days and it's at this time and I own this amazing gym called N1 and, you know, come up whenever and train. And it literally took until last week before I finally got my shit together and got to go hang with Cass again. And, uh, that was awesome seeing the new, I don't want to say renovated N1, but he's, he's put in so much work, so many new machines, it's cool lighting, uh, lots of cool toys. And so we went and did an upper body session. And it was really cool that the upper body session we did was mostly like, I'd say 90 % identical to the way that I have been training myself. we did two sets of six or seven different exercises, two for the pulling structure, two for the pushing structure, uh, one for the lateral delts and then one for triceps, one for biceps. seven total exercises. each exercise had two total working sets with a rest pause after the second set. So essentially getting us three total working sets. uh And it was, it literally felt like the way I trained myself in my home gym. aside from, you know, using better equipment and getting to hang out with Cass and kind of pick his brain on some stuff, uh it was, was reinforcing to kind of see that someone I respect at the level of Cass and the N1 crew are training very similarly to how naturally I've kind of gravitated toward training at this time in my life. So it was fun and informative and educational and all that good stuff. Yeah, I'm jealous. am hopeful that once I am back, you know, part time in Salt Lake that maybe I can visit and one again. I would love to do one of the camps or something again. Like I just I want I yearn for some of that like in person stuff. And I'm actually. I guess I have a small update. will be our friend Ben Broughton, who owns Unreal Gym in Bangkok, is how hosting a camp in December. And I will be one of the coaches teaching at the camp. So I'm really excited about that and the opportunity to go and do there. So I give a talk ah and then I'll be in person on the gym floor for, think, five or six days like coaching in person, which I'm very, very excited for. So. the topic of your chat or discussion piece? You know, let me grab it because it has a specific title that I changed a few times. So let me make sure I read the right one. All right, and Ben is the one that you just competed with at your first pro show, right? Correct, yes. So, you know. I feel like my my inbox. Let me see which email I sent it from. Here we go. OK. Mastering client communication for superior coaching results is the name of my talk that I'm giving. it's yeah it's it's around a lot of the I wanted something. Ultimately, I guess what I'm getting at for and I'll keep it really really short is as a coach, right? You spend so much time learning these specific X's and O's of like If if someone if this happens in an exercise 30 minutes in and you need extra carbohydrate like these are your like you learn all these like rabbit hole X's and O's and you think like that's what's gonna make you a really good coach and then you get out in the real world working with people and What moves the needle the most is like convincing people to leave their habits behind and take on the habits that you're trying to instill in them. And there, only once you reach like... the level of actually coaching like athletes and stuff, do you get to use any of these like intricate coaching details? And it was something that took me a really long time to really kind of figure out. But then once I did, my coaching results dramatically expanded. wasn't any of my X's and O's knowledge of training or nutrition. It was just. asking deeper questions, communicating better, understand, getting clients to understand like these facets are open for interpretation. These facets are not. These are non-negotiable sort of thing. So it's really the communication part of it, which has nothing to do with nutrition and training and stuff, which is both kind of like frustrating, but then also very ah reassuring once you understand that. So I'm all about delivering the best results that I can and helping others do the same. And that's where I felt that I provide the most value in an area that's typically very underserved. Yeah, I mean, I think the communication side is a hugely undervalued piece of the coach client relationship and it is the basis for building the trust that allows everything else downstream to actually occur. So, yeah, that's going to be awesome. I'm excited for everyone that gets to experience that. Hopefully it's recorded. I have no idea. Yeah, cool. My last update is that at Paragon, I think I noted a couple of weeks ago that we were refining our menu of program options and uh kind of combining the dumbbell, the home gym and the full gym into kind of one program where you can look through and swap to the exercise that is most appropriate for your equipment. ah Overall, the feedback has been pretty good on this. However, we did have a small sect of people that were rightfully disappointed that you know, hey I was doing a dumbbell program and now this program's gone or I was doing a home gym program and now it's gone and I don't love the fact that it says chest supported machine row and that I need to now swap in a chest supported dumbbell row or something along those lines. So we're gonna bring back a four day home gym program and a four day dumbbell program and that way you won't have to swap equipment. um And we'll have instructions on how to change that to a three-day program if you so desire. And if you're one of those hardcore dedicated ones that really wants to train five days a week, you'll just have to use that kind of combined program where you're gonna have to swap stuff in and out occasionally here and there. But I think that overall, this is gonna be a nice solution to help kind of those people that were a little bit frustrated from some of the changes. So that'll start September 22nd, guess, a day before this episode goes out. We'll have new cycles starting and brand new hypertrophy cycles across the board on all the different programs. Wonderful. That sounds exciting as always. I'm sure people are excited for the hypertrophy cycle to start. Everyone loves a good hypertrophy cycle. It's the way we should be training most of the year, Yep. All right, cool. Well, let's jump into the topic today. We're gonna discuss Aaron's bodybuilding season, his first pro show, and then what I'm most excited about is kind of getting into some of the stuff on what's coming up in Aaron's life over the next couple of years. So before we get going, I think we have to start with your first pro show. I mean, we had an update two episodes ago where we discussed your ah getting of your pro card, your first pro card, you got your pro card at your second show that you did, and then you did a third show most recently, which was your first pro show. um So if you just wanna like recap that, the season in general, just very briefly, kinda 10,000 foot view, and then we can kinda dig into the experience at the first pro show a little bit. Yeah, I'll try and keep it pretty concise. So my first uh bodybuilding prep and season, the goal was to uh earn a pro card and IFBB pro card. I did not think it was possible. I thought my goal was very um like pie in the sky, but I was happy to, you know, say it and put it up on my kind of vision board thing as something to really strive for. um So With how it works here in the NPC worldwide, it depends on where you live, right? So because I live in Indonesia, you have to do a regional to qualify for a pro qualifier. uh I think it's really just like a money grab, right? You make people do more shows. I don't really know. Again, I'm very much so uh still a beginner in a lot of this, understanding of things. would say my successes have outpaced my understanding. Of it all in full transparency. So my uh prep started at the end of March. There was 10 weeks to my first show, which was in my regional in Thailand. I did pretty well there. Took second in the overall, but we were not quite lean enough in those sorts of things yet because it was just a practice run, like a dry run. Get some experience for the pro qualifier. Six weeks after Thailand was my pro qualifier in Taiwan. which I ended up winning the entire show earning my pro card was not very overwhelmed and unexpected. And then what was really cool is mentally I had always prepared for this Hong Kong show September 7th because it was another pro qualifier. So Taiwan was going to be the first attempt and then we were going to attempt a pro card again at Hong Kong. So the challenge there is Hong Kong was another seven weeks after Taiwan. And at Taiwan, I'd already been in prep for 16 weeks, which is four months. So was another seven weeks after that. oh Lo and behold, I ended up winning my pro card at Taiwan. So now, fortunately, the Hong Kong show was also a pro show so I could compete in the pro division. The wrinkle there is as a pro. I now have a weight cap I need to be under, and it's based on your height. So I had to actually start dieting. you know, for real. Well, I had to diet harder to get under the weight cap because I was just over it in my pro qualifiers. There is no weight cap for men's physique in the amateur divisions yet, but there is in classic. Yep, that all sounds great, man. And it's awesome and so unexpected that you were able to get your pro card one show earlier than when you actually expected to be able to do it. uh also super cool that you're essentially over muscled for physique. mean, who would have thought when you were finishing up your Natty cut, what was it at this point, a year and a half or two years ago that and a half ago, yeah. Yeah, you were down at 192, something like 8 % body fat. And then you're sitting there just a matter of a few weeks ago at 220 plus shredded and needing to get down under 218 was it 217. Yeah, and you did it, man. mean, obviously there was it was never in doubt like you were you were gonna get there, of course. But um Yeah, what was that like kind of leading up to that pro show? Obviously you knew you were gonna make your weight cap. I don't think that was ever in doubt. But what was kind of the week or two leading up to the show like and um what was different about it in the last week specifically in the way you approach peak compared to the prior shows? Yeah, definitely. So one giant part that I somehow just left out is I took ninth in my pro debut out of 24 athletes. You know, and I set a new pie in the sky goal that I set the big goals because I wanted to try really, really hard. Right. And not lose like my driver motivation. But I didn't think it was possible. uh I and to take ninth, you know. in my pro debut, I honestly couldn't believe it. again, I'm like, what's so wild to me, and then we'll get into the answers. The whole reason I did this prep is because I thought if I got into my late 40s or 50s and I never did a bodybuilding show after living so much of my life bodybuilding adjacent, that I would regret it. And so the premise is like, I'll do a season. I'll dip my toe in, you know, just to say that I did it so that I don't regret it in like 15 years. And lo and behold, I'm pretty fucking decent at it. And now I have like this new avenue of a potential trajectory of things to do with my personal brand and career. Yeah, I mean, dude, the fact that you now can put IFBB Pro everywhere that you write things about your credentials is such an amazing achievement. And I'll just, I just quickly want to go back to something you just said about, you you thought you would regret it, you know, 15, 20 years from now looking back, because I feel, I could be wrong on this, but I feel like throughout the years of us doing this show, there was definitely a point, you know, two or three years ago while you were still natty where the conversation of competing would come up and you were pretty non-committal to it. You were, if anything, I'd say that if I had to have placed a wager at that point a few years ago, I would have said that you were leaning toward not competing. So it seems like sometime between, you know, two or three years ago and now there was a big shift in your mentality as far as how it relates to your desire to compete. So, and I remember, I know exactly what happened. There was one time, I'm pretty sure I was still natural. Maybe I had just started TRT, like within a couple weeks. We were sitting in the sauna and Jackson said, I'm not gonna put pressure you into this and I'm only gonna say it once. But I think if I would encourage you to consider doing like a season or a prep. as I think you would be pretty good at it. And this was like after we had been training together for like months and months and had been through the diet and that sort of thing. So he just kind of like planted this little seed. He said it one time and then it was on my birthday in 2024. uh And we had talked about this on the podcast before, you know, I had, I had planned this big long thing of like this year and a half long plan of like, I'm going to do one final build as an addy and then get like my best physique, you know, as a natural at 36 years old and then go on TRT and within like eight weeks of being on TRT, had like the physique that I had always dreamed of, which was like 10 % body fat at like 210 pounds. And then I kind of just felt like really unfulfilled because it felt so easy. I'm like, I did nothing else except put in a small amount of testosterone and like eight weeks later, dream physique, you know? And then I didn't have any more goals. And I was like, I feel really just, you know, empty and Jenny and I were sitting in a Starbucks up on Mount Kintamani on my birthday. And we were just like talking back ideas and stuff. And I was like, you know, there's this idea of doing a bodybuilding season. I think now is the kind of the only time I can do it. Cause we have our master plan of like timing and everything. And she was like, yeah, I think you should do it. Right? Like, you know, you may regret it if you don't. Jenny had done some preps and shows in the past. And she was like, I think we should do it. So was like on my birthday last year that I was like, okay, I'll commit to, you know, one season. And that's really when I accepted it. But I didn't I did all the other parts, but there was no like posing or any of that stuff. The hard committal things. Yet it was just OK. I'll eat more and grow more and those sorts of things at that time. Yeah. Yeah, cool. that has, that gives some foreshadowing to some stuff I want to talk about a little bit later, but let's get back to kind of that week leading up to the pro show where you took ninth ah and I wanted to get to that too, but you jumped the gun on it. So all good. You did finish top 10 and then hit his goal, which is awesome. So what was it about that week leading up that made that prep so successful and not And how would you compare and contrast it to the one where you actually got your pro card? Because getting your pro card is one amazing achievement, but then finishing ninth in a pro show is probably, I would venture to say, a bigger achievement than actually getting your pro card. How do you think about those two placings and what were those two weeks like as far as the peak week and what differed between the two? Yeah, so I mean, I would imagine the bigger achievement is the ninth, you know, at the pro show because you're now competing against everyone who is a pro who has won a show before. What was different with the peak weeks is, I mean, honestly, not like a huge amount, but managing fatigue was different in the heading into pro show. because about two and a half weeks out is, or three weeks, no, three weeks out is when we're like, okay, we need to make this weight cap. And we really like food came down and that's when I got sick as well that week. And the difference was by the time I got to peak week, I was so fatigued and my body weight had plummeted like so far under the weight cap. We had to feed me a lot more to like, combat the fatigue and like climb out of a hole that I had fallen into. Whereas in with the pro card win in Taiwan, because I didn't have to make a weight cap, it was it was much more just look based. So like we're going to do a little bit of depletion, you know, a three day depletion just to kind of resensitize for the uh glucose uptake when we do our 48 hour loading. uh Peek week was a lot simpler. The Taiwan show was also a lot more straightforward, whereas I had registration maybe two days before. I don't remember, it the other day before, two days before. But all I had to do was go like sign papers and you know, they take my height and my weight. And then I go off about my day and the show was in the morning. So then you do a typical like, hey, I have all day Friday to load food. Sorry, all day Thursday to load food, all day Friday to load food. I wake up Saturday morning. The look is pretty much how we want. We just maintain it for smaller amounts of meals and until I get on stage. So that the Taiwan one was pretty straightforward. The hard thing with peak week at the pro show was managing fatigue. The beginning of peak week, I was still like in a hole, you know, and what was really wild is I'm training and there's no pump. I took like sodium is high. Fluids are there. I take the pump, you know, non-stim pump workout and like there's nothing. I'm like squeezing my muscles and there's just nothing there because I had fallen like so far into a hole from getting sick on top of the pushing. It took like eight consecutive days of carbs between four and 600 per day for me to like reach a threshold to where I could get a pump again training, which is really wild. So fortunately like right at the beginning of peak week, Had I was on Tuesday the show was on Sunday. I was like I got a pump today training like We so we're over some threshold and that mean meant that fatigue was like mitigated Enough and then I was able to like sleep those next nights uh So that was a little bit different where I was like climbing out of a hole as opposed to just All we cared about was the look, you know into Taiwan and then the challenge with Hong Kong was the show was Sunday night and my way in wasn't until Saturday evening at 6 p.m. So I had to be under my weight cap Saturday at 6 p.m. Where normally we would be loading a bunch of food already all day Saturday and then the show is at Sunday night as opposed to like at like, you know 12 1 p.m. In Taiwan when I was on stage, I didn't go on stage till 10 p.m. Pro Show. So it was just a lot. The timing was different. Whereas normally you wake up in the morning. Okay, no water. You know, basically little baby sips of water into one stage, some rice cakes and peanut butter and sodium, you know, an hour before you go on. We're good. Whereas this time, like I had to feed and we had to like check the look like all day long up through and I had to on the registration day, like eat a meal, get on, get on the scale. Where am I at? Okay, can we eat another meal? Yeah, I think we can eat another meal. I eat another meal. I get on the scale. Are we still under IP? So we're like basically seeing how far we could eat and stay under the cap based on the timing of the day, which was just a lot more to manage. Mm-hmm. Do you think that your physique ended up better at the pro show or at the pro qualifier? This is my opinion. Well, obviously, since in the way that you asked the question, of course, it's my opinion. My physique was better at the pro show. I did a better job of pumping up. And so I think I looked better at Taiwan. Like if you if you look at my back photos, my back is so much more full and pumped. at the Taiwan show, then at the Hong Kong show, but the Hong Kong show was very challenging. There was no air con in the building. It was, I shit you not, was like 95, 100 degrees in there. Everyone, all the competitors are sweating through their tans and you like can't pump up too much because then you're literally just pissing sweat. All, and we're under the lights up there. All the audience members were sweating through their clothes. Like it was, it was bad. It was a legitimate problem. So I couldn't pump up. as much because then your can's running and stuff. it was was a lot of hard moving pieces. mean, fortunately, everyone was dealt the same hand was struggling all in the same way. I think relative to others, I was sweating much less. But then at the same time, when we did our comparison rounds, my lat started cramping up and there's a video and you can see it like I just can't. I like can't get it into position. Then you see me kind of like, I'm not panicking, but you could tell in my face, I'm like, oh fuck, something's wrong. um And that happened like literally in comparisons, which is like the worst time for it to happen. So that was frustrating, but like I said, I think I preferred my physique at Taiwan, but I think a lot of that came down to the stage set up and the lighting and those sorts of things. I think it was just. much more conducive to capture a much better photo. um But I'll have my edits back shortly and then I can send them to you and we'll compare and all that stuff. sweet. I think the last question I have on this is whether you think or have thought about the fact that you got sick and the way that that almost acts as like this super depletion to the point where your body weight had plummeted so far that you were forced to then have to like eat up into it and whether you think there potentially was any benefit that that occurred. even above and beyond say if you hadn't gotten sick or do you think that you just managed it and made it okay but it still would have been way better had you not gotten sick. Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to say even when I was so normally when I get sick like a Bolly belly thing, I stop eating because that's I you know anything you eat is going to come out the other side. So normally I would stop eating. But this point I was so weak and fatigued like I had to keep eating because I felt so I like needed the energy and was hoping that my body would, you know, kind of keep it together, which it didn't for like the first four days. It's really hard to say. I think if I didn't get sick, the fatigue wouldn't have been so great because I wouldn't have had this new vector that my body was fighting on top of everything else. Yeah, I really honestly just don't know. Unfortunately, it would be hard to say. Yeah. so uh what else did I not ask you about? What do you wanna cover as far as uh any of the kind of bodybuilding season leading up to the shows, anything like that? The only thing I will say is my approach. And I don't think I talked about this or not. We have a couple friends, um two that come into mind. One, uh her name is John. She's a figure pro from Germany. And another is Jules, who's also from Germany. She is a bikini pro. They're, I mean, they're pretty young relative to me. They're like, I don't know, 25, 27, something like that. They are literal professionals in how they operate with their preps and stuff. Like non-negotiables, they take it insanely seriously. They do not miss. are literal professionals, like, you know, in and out. And when I sat down to kind of do my planning and do my journaling and stuff, was like, I'm going to model my prep after John and Jules. And I'm going to pretend that I am a professional, even though I'm literally a day one beginner. And I think that that really changed how things how things went because. I just did not give myself an option. ran everything incredibly black and white. And I think I talked about this. I had a very simple algorithm. said, is the date before September 8th? If it is, I cannot. There's no deviations. There's no cheat meals. There's no off plan meals. I follow the plan day in and day out to perfection to make the most out of this like one effort, this one try that I have. uh And I really think the simplicity of that really helped drive a favorable outcome because until we got to Needing to make the weight cap it was I Shouldn't say easy, but it was never overly challenging because I was never behind schedule Because we never had to push calories low to make up for The free meals that I fucked up or ate too much or whatever because everything was literally linear because I ate the same thing every single day. So the plan was like incredibly simple. And then from a human psychology standpoint, I never had to play that like, I really want that thing that I had last week, but why can't I fit it in this week? Like there was no human psychology game. was just the light switches off until the date is September 8th. And it just became really black and white. And it really just simplified everything for me. And all I knew was like, hey, at 2 p.m. I ate this meal that I ate yesterday. copy paste the same message to the restaurant and I order the same exact meal. I pick it up at the same time. So it became really simple to be successful because all I had to do was do exactly what I did yesterday. So I do think that that really played a positive uh role in my outcome because I got to turn my brain off really. Yeah, none of that really surprises me because that's kind of the way you go about your structure and regimen on a daily basis anyways, even when you're not competing like all those times that I talk about, you know, I crave this or I'm gonna eat that. You're just like, no, like I just eat these foods because they make me feel good and they give me the what I need from them. So ah that doesn't surprise me. mean, still still impressive that you're able to kind of make that commitment and stick to it. But um That's just kind what I expect from you, Cool, well that's awesome. Can we move on to kind of some next questions from there? All right, cool. So one of the things I'm curious about is your reflections on the use of gear or exogenous substances in your body. So we were talking prior about the end of your last natural cut where you got down to 192 at 8%, you were looking great. I made a comment about how you do really well as like a natural physique. whether that's bodybuilding or physique, I don't think it would have mattered, your legs were fine. um And then, you you ended up making that choice to go on TRT and then kind of progress it from there. And so maybe some of your prior thoughts on what that would be like are a bit blurred at this point because you've, you know, been on it now for what is it a year or something like that. um But what is, can you think back to... what your perspective was on the use of gear a few years ago and what you thought it would be like compared to what it actually is like. Yeah, it's... So one thing that I will say, I do feel... What's the word I want to use? Like, not vilified. What's that word with a V? Vindicated? I think it's vindicated. There are times like when I was a natural and stuff when we were training and I would see people and I would be, I wouldn't say jealous but I'd be like salty. I'm like man if I was on gear like I'd look like that dude. I'd be just as big as that dude you know and I would tell myself this you know I kind of like I make myself feel better because I wasn't as big, but it felt important to me to be that big, right? So it was kind of like uh a coping mechanism, I should say. And one of the things, and I guess, let me back up. And the reason that I felt that way is because in my mind, I already did everything right. I knew how to train, I knew how to diet, I knew how to be consistent. The one, the sole difference was they were using exogenous hormones and I was natural, right? I do feel now being on the other side, vindicated in that that thought process that I had when I was an actual is completely accurate. I changed nothing, but I put the gear in. Now I am bigger than that guy who I would think of or whatever. So I do feel like vindicated in that. I'm like, okay, sick. Nattie Aaron, like he knew what would happen. you know, and I'm like, I guess happy about that. um I would say the biggest thing that is I would say misunderstood is mileage varies so drastically and you just do not know what you are going to get and the genetic variation is gargantuan and I it would be remiss I would be an abject liar if I said if I didn't say that I have an easier time than average. Probably way easier. I'm very fortunate that from a genetic standpoint, things are very benign to me. I didn't get any acne. I didn't start losing my hair. I didn't start growing strange thick body hair on my back. Like I'm pretty much Aaron still with just more muscle, right? Like it's been very But I'm very fortunate. It's been like a very benign in terms of the side effects. And I think there's two parts of it. One part is the genetic component. And I also think to my like psychology and overall demeanor, I'm pretty calm, chill. So I don't get those kind of extremes of anything. So that definitely does kind of help. um One of the things that you read about or think about is You know, there's one thing that I would see that Dr. Mike would say that scared me is he is there's this clip where he's like, anytime I get close to a gram of gear, all I can think about is violence and my thoughts are super evil. And I think about, you know, violence all the time. And in full transparency, like heading into Taiwan, I was on close to two grams of gear. I felt none of that whatsoever. I was still I was like on edge, but that's because of the sympathetic, you know, drive. But I didn't think about violence ever. You know, my thoughts were very calm. I would sit down in my like garden with my coffee and my journal every morning and was like very serene. So I think it's like your psychology and your, way that you are, the things like amplify that. And if you're, if you're an asshole as a natural, you're going to be a giant fucking asshole on gear. But if you're, Pretty normal, chill, calm person. You're gonna be that way still, but just have more muscle and stuff. um But it's, yeah, the genetic variation I would say is like so huge. And that's the hard part is you literally don't know what you're gonna get. Yeah, that's a really good perspective. And I agree that I think your natural demeanor, your like homeostatic set point of how you are as a human probably just gets amplified on gear. And so that tells us a lot about Dr. Mike and kind of how he is at a resting state when, you see how he is in a geared state as well. And, and that doesn't surprise me that you're still like the same chill kind of tranquil, thoughtful dude that you've always been. So, that's reassuring. And that was actually one of the things that was curious about as far as like how gear, how you thought gear would be versus how gear actually is. So that's, that's super cool. Yeah. caveat that I think is important. We're blanketing gear together, but you have your different kind of trees. On trend, I did get very direct, very serious, less fun. there is certain, your 19-nors tend to be a little bit more. influential on like neurological and in psychology is that sort of thing. Whereas like your testosterone and then like your DHT derivatives are not as impactful there. So that's one where I was very happy to like for season to come off and then stop. Within like five days. Well using the Esther of trend that I was using it it metabolizes out pretty quickly but I would feel like those oxytocin feelings again of Desiring like affection and love whereas before I would just feel like like a wall like I don't touch me Don't don't don't put your leg on me. I don't want the cats rubbing up against me It would just like kind of piss me off and that was one where I was like, wow, like personality is is changing It's for the worse I'm looking forward to not using this for that, to go back to how I was. So that is one thing I think I should be very transparent about. no, I think that that's really good and good to hear that. So on the topic of gear for one more question here, ah I've heard in the past, people have said that the hardest part of coming off gear is knowing that you're never gonna look that good or say that big or lift those types of weights again. ah So how does that feel for you? Like how does that statement hit you? Like in a sense, know, I have peaked I was the strongest and biggest and most aesthetic that I potentially will ever be. And now I, this might be like way too big of a statement, but now I have the rest of my life where I will continue to train with weights, but never reach the level that I was just, you know, two weeks ago or something along those lines. Like what is your mental framework around that and kind of how you foresee that psychologically going, you know, in the future. Yeah, it's a really good question. I'm fortunate that like in terms of strength, I don't care that much about like those numbers, you know, sometimes it gets it'll get a little bit, I guess, hard to manage like progressions and stuff and knowing like when things drop down to like, okay, I'm at whatever 80 % Aaron in terms of like monitoring my strength progressions in terms of making progress like that can get a little bit muddy. But In full transparency, like there is points where I was just bigger than I wanted to be. You know, and it's almost kind of like a relief now. I know that I don't want to like every not everyone, but multiple people like, well now you just go up to like classic physique. And I'm like, no, I don't because I don't want to be 250 fucking pounds. Like I didn't want to be 230 pounds. So I'm I guess it's it's good that. I just don't want to be that large. I don't want to live my life at that size. So now knowing that like if I want to do any more competing, I have to sit right around like 220 pounds and I can just be like I can just be 220 pounds at 910 % body fat and like smell the roses and then just try and like make some improvements in my upper back and mid back and chest, which I think I can probably do a little bit. I'm not really sure. So I'm fortunate that being the largest I could possibly be like isn't really the goal. You know, if you look at the dudes that won the show, they're smaller than me like considerably, but it's they're more aesthetic and that sort of thing. So it's not just a game of being as big as you can be. I'm I guess it's I mean, I get it but It just doesn't really apply to me as much, nor do I want to be that big because I just don't want to live my life at that size. Yeah, mean, dude, that's a great perspective. Like it's actually, for you, probably very rare that you would be someone that's coming off this stuff and actually excited to kind of lose muscle, so to speak. uh Where do you expect your body weight to hang out, say, you know, four to six months from now? Honestly, the plan is really to sit at like 218 to 222, you know and and I have from when I first started 150 milligrams of testosterone I got up to 218 218 is where we like bridged from 150 testosterone to like errands going on gear now, so 150 took me right up to 218 pounds so I feel really confident that like 150 to 200 milligrams of testosterone and like two to three units of growth hormone will keep me right here at 220 pounds and I you know, obviously I'll put maybe you know, I won't be fucking 5 % body fat will probably be like nine but that's all still very well within like striking distance of any physique related thing I would ever want to do. Yeah. Yeah. cool, man. Well, that's, that's really good to hear. And, I think there's a good plan there going forward. One interesting thing is that when you look at studies of how much muscle someone should expect to gain simply by going on TRT with nothing else, it's something like four to eight pounds of muscle, I think is where most of the studies land. And you sort of went up to like 30 pounds or 25 pounds or something like that. Right. Would you say that that's accurate? Yeah, I mean, I went from 191, 192 to 218 on 150 milligrams of testosterone. Yeah, it's crazy. But that did get your T levels up to like above, like it was correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So somebody that's just doing TRT to get back into like, like someone like me who's at 300 testosterone and looking to get to a thousand or 900, I wouldn't be taking 150, right? I'd be taking 50 or something like that. Everyone is different. It's so wild. Like I've seen people who are on 300 milligrams per week and that doesn't put them above the reference range. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was gonna jump into some chatting around your training, but I wanna save that, see if we have time, because we are kinda running a little low on time, and I wanna get to some of the more interesting life stuff. over these next few weeks, you get married in less than two weeks from now. What is it, 11 days, something like that. By the time this episode comes out, it'll be three days, four days. ah So. Just talk to us about the next few weeks of your life leading up to the wedding. Yeah, tell me about what your plan is for these next 10 to 12 days. try and stay on top of everything, right? We're like finishing all of our vendor stuff and making final payments and then uh traveling back to the States. I call it Amazon Christmas, because we've just been like buying shit on Amazon and clothes and stuff. And we're going to show up, there's gonna be like 30 boxes of things that we've been buying over the last like three months, all waiting for us. It should be like fucking Amazon Christmas. So I'm very excited about that. um I have lab work that I'm getting done. I have a bunch of health supplements for like kidney support, heart health stuff, liver support from this company called Leviathan Nutrition, which is like really, really good all third party tested stuff that, because I'm now starting this like health phase, right? I got labs this morning. I'm going to see what organ uh markers and stuff like that look like, and then prioritize that. But just get back. get all buttoned up with wedding stuff, know, drive out to Wintergreen where we're getting married in Virginia, have the wedding there. We have a few days after to like chill and decompress. And then we go to Salt Lake City for like six days to meet with realtors and start looking at neighborhoods and that whole thing, which I'm super, super excited about. Yeah. And that's the kind of like next two week, two week plan of, you know, life just. I'm so excited for it. Yeah, hell yeah, man, that's great. ah When do you have a tentative idea of when you actually want to make that move from Bali back to Utah more permanently? Yeah, so somewhere in like Q1, so probably not before mid-February, but before April, I would say that. um You know, we met with our realtor that we chose um the other night, and he was saying it might be a better idea to buy and like... December because there's kind of like deals and stuff at that time So we might end up like if it happens buy it early and then it just sits there for a couple months Like I don't fucking know. This is my first time doing any of this and I literally don't know what I'm doing uh so Somewhere in that that like time frame ah But I even like if it even if we did buy early I still have commitments and stuff here So I wouldn't go into like February at the earliest so probably February March realistically which For people who have not lived in winter in 15 years, I have no winter clothes that fit me anymore. We are in for a rude awakening when we show up in Salt Lake City in February with nothing but an empty fucking house and summer clothes. What, uh how many bags, like what is your life, what is your life right now? How many bags is it packed into? It's hard to say, you we've been here for like three and a half years. We've accumulated some stuff, but I will ship things from here. You know, we'll arrange a cargo shipping company and ship things. I got like my pro card. That's like fucking four foot by three foot. Like I'm going to, I'm just going to ship that. not, I'm not taking that. I'm not paying $150 again to check it on an airline. Um, so like things like that, but there's a bunch of things I'll get rid of, you know, and just like rebuy. There's things I have to go through back at Jenny's parents' home. All these clothes that will not fit me now. A lot of things like that. But I don't know. We'll get one of those pod things and ship it if that's even still a service. I've been gone a long time, so there's a lot of things I need to figure out again. Yeah, we need cars. We don't have cars either. know. That's so funny. And you got to furnish a whole house. A lot of changes. Okay, so you guys have talked a lot in the past throughout the last five years of this episode or this podcast about about having kids and how excited you are for it. And I know how excited Jenny is for it. And, you know, we joked in the beginning of the podcast years ago that she wanted five or more kids and uh And now we're here and the whole process is starting. so like realistically, you know, you guys have gotten a little bit older since those initial proclamations, like how many kids do we want to have? uh Obviously the process of having kids is not just like, I want kid, make kid happen, kid shows up. Like it's not, it's not quite an ABC process like that. There are complications and things that occur, but in a perfect world, what does, uh what does Papa Aaron and mama Blake? look like. You know, I think like at least one, I won't do more than three. Somewhere in there we'll see how we feel after like one and things like that. As someone, I grew up kind of as an only child. My brother was born when I was like nine. I wish I had a sibling closer in age, you know, so I think I wouldn't want to do that to my child. So I think two, at least two makes the most sense so that they can have some sort of bond, right? Like I have, and now I have one brother and three sisters, but I'm so much older than everyone. I'm more like a distant uncle kind of thing. And part of that's my fault. I moved away at 18 and then moved to the other side of the country at 20, 22. while they were in sixth grade or something like that. So, you know, part of that's definitely my fault or of my own doing, I should say. But I definitely want them to be able to have like a sibling to, I don't know, fucking wrestle with, fight with, do whatever kids do together as they grow up. So I would say probably at least two. I'll put in a little urging, a gentle urge for two that are within two to three years of each other, because that's worked out quite well for us. And I think that that's worked out well for a lot of the people in my life as well. Yeah, our age would kind of have to make it that way for sure. Yep, yep, for sure. ah Cool, so what about your thoughts on competing again in the future? I know we briefly touched on this, I think, in the last episode or the one before the Q &A session, but ah what are you thinking at this moment as far as whether you want to compete again? And would that be, I assume, once the kids are kind of a little more settled in, maybe into kindergarten or something along those lines? Yeah, I definitely I have the itch now and it's it's two it's twofold. I feel unsatisfied in my most recent performance, you know, and I don't think that I think if I controlled some of the things a little bit better around like my pump and those sorts of things, I think I could have taken an eighth or a seventh absolute best. So like maybe one or two. other one or one or two placements um at best. Right. I wouldn't be satisfied if this was just, you know, I did one pro show and rode off into the sunset. I do. I do enjoy the competitive nature of it. um I also think that now with a little bit more experience, it could be easier. Right. Like I could do a probably 14 week. prep, you know, knowing that what that weight cap is, I stay closer to it. I don't see any point going up to 236 pounds and then dieting down. I can just stay lean and kind of recomp with the escalation of gear right around the same body weight. um There shows in the States like there's a there's a Wasatch Warrior Pro in Salt Lake City down the road. You know, there's things that I could set up that could be a little bit more conducive, but I don't think Realistically until 2027, right? Because, you know, uh nine, 10 months of a pregnancy and then I want to prioritize allowing Jenny to get her body back to where she feels her best and that sort of thing. So like I've been able to be selfish. We've prioritized me. Now the next like 18 months, 24 months is prioritizing her. You know, hopefully the start of a family. um And it seems like unnecessarily selfish for me to try and rush another one in. makes full sense to me, um What do you think life looks like in five or 10 years? I think we've kind of projected some of that already, but anything that we missed as far as where you wanna be five or 10 years from now? Yeah, one thing that was kind of cool is this is again, my opinion could be completely Aaron off in Fantasy Island. Who's not in touch with the reality. I feel pretty confident that I can operate in my current capacity of like athletic performance, etc, etc. For about the next like six years. So I think like 43 44 I can hold like maintain my current output. And then after that, think like things will start to slow a little bit. um So I would like to get at least maybe like two pro shows in maybe over like six years. You know, I really want to go back to Taiwan and do the Taiwan pro Taiwan was very special to me. And I want to take like Jenny back there and stuff. It was it was just such an overwhelmingly amazing experience. I definitely want to go back. So that's kind of like five years. I would imagine we'll be splitting time between Bali and Salt Lake City and who knows where else. I have a very hard time accepting that like we're just going to move back to the United States in February and like I'm going to spend the next 20 years of my life in one place. just I just don't think that will be us. I think I'm just too far gone. We've spent too much time away. Whereas if I have like a couple months of something pissing me off. I'm gonna be like, fuck this. We're going to like pack up the shit. We're going to Bali for 10 weeks, you know, or we're going to Thailand for fucking three months or something like that. So I'm curious to see how much of life, you know, lands where and how much gypsying around we do. Cause I mean, the way that I look at it is like until your kids look what maybe eight years old, maybe 10. Right, like you're not missing much in school or something like that. And we can always just go like. do have pretty stringent rules as far as attendance with schools and stuff. Like even in kindergarten, when Bryson was in kindergarten two years ago, we took three weeks off to go to San Diego as we used to do before he was in the school system. And we got a hard time about missing three weeks of kindergarten. at least in the public school system, they get some of their funding based on the consistency of attendance of their students. And so if students leave without, I guess, unenrolling, but you simply are still enrolled, but you've just like left, then that reflects extremely badly on the school. So there's like a lot of negative connotation around that. So yes, to your point, like they're not really going to fall behind in school to the point that it's gonna be detrimental to their development. at that point, but there are certain kind of stipulations and regulations that you're supposed to uphold. Yeah, I'm sure that makes sense. But I mean, who knows? Maybe we homeschool them. know, I just, my life has turned out so drastically different than I ever thought it would or could have. I don't know what the next five to 10 years could hold, because if you asked me five years ago or 10 years ago where I would be now, I would have been so fucking wrong, so. Yeah, yeah. Well, that actually transitions perfectly well into my last question for you, which is, remind me, are you 37 or 38? 37. So if you could write yourself a letter to 27-year-old Aaron, so 10 years ago, and you're writing it from the current day, what advice or insight would you provide to 27-year-old Aaron about the next 10 years? Could you just quit your job now, get started in the fitness industry like you've always wanted to, and you just. Let your kind of moral light guide you in what you think is best. Try and be helpful, do what you think is best, and that will eventually serve you for what you need it to. And sometimes, I'll say this and then Jenny will kind of push back, but. Like I knew for years, you know, that I wanted to like get into the fitness industry and stuff, but I just, I was just scared. You know, I was scared of like, have this good job. Why would I leave this software job to go work as a CrossFit coach? Which is like something that I heavily contemplated doing for like years and I wanted to. um And you know, I just, it just took me longer, right? It took really like Jenny. making the first leap, you know, which the listeners can probably pick up on this. I'm a late bloomer. I'm very trepidatious around things, but then they end up working out very, very well for me. So I wish I would have just like pulled the plug earlier and had a little bit more faith in myself. uh But I would, I would honestly say I was probably 36 before I felt like really confident. in my ability to like do things and in my positioning in this world and stuff. like I said, I'm just a late bloomer. One thing I will say that I think relates back to some of the earlier conversations. I do think the hard to say if it's gear and testosterone is very very muddy thing because at what point is it gear? Technically, I think it's 200 milligrams. But that's kind of based off of like the doctor, that sort of thing. But what I'm really getting at is I do think the introduction of exogenous testosterone into my life has made my life a net benefit in terms of things like my confidence and how I carry myself. The I don't want to call them like risks, but like calculated business risks and stuff that I will do. um because I was able, like before I was in my head so much, I would be in analysis paralysis and I wouldn't analyze something for years and not be able to make a decision and it helped and now I can analyze and now I'm like, I'm gonna do it. I just have more, I have more confidence in myself, I should say. And that helps get me out of that analysis paralysis and do things that I. was just too afraid to do for years and years and years. Yeah, that's great, man. sounds like 27-year-old Aaron receiving this message from 37-year-old Aaron would basically say, just do exactly what you did, but maybe do it a little bit earlier. Yeah, it's just like like like three years. Yeah, like like four four or three years. Yeah, like let's maybe not Jump ship at 31. Let's do it at like 27. That would be great. Yeah Well, that's great, man. Really glad to have gone through and heard all of this perspective from you. uh personally, a little bummed I'm gonna be missing your wedding in 12 days, but really excited for you guys and excited to kind of recap all of that and hear all the details on the next time that we're able to kind of get together and do one of these episodes. Yep, all good. Soon enough we will be both in the Mountain West and can do some in real life things which are even better. Yep, sounds good. All right, buddy. Well, good luck with everything. And this is Erin. Say hi, Viv. Hi, Erin. Yeah. All right, we're going to go get ready for school. See ya. guys, thank you for listening. We'll talk to you next time.