December 2025 Instagram Q&A | ETP#205

Wrapping up 2025 with our final Q&A episode of the year. We’ve got 15 questions answered for you ranging from male and female hormones, 3x weekly programming, whether Ronnie Coleman trained high or low volume, and how we properly differentiate between a warm up set and a working set. A big thank you to all who provide questions and we will see you guys in 2026!

Timestamps:

00:00:00 - Celebrating Milestones and Gratitude

00:06:00 - Updates on Life and Training

00:09:18 - Mini cut training principles?

00:10:50 - When Aaron trained at camp recently, did he stick to his low volume program or jump in with the other guys’ training?

00:15:47 - Do you expect to gain muscle and strength on TRT? I gained 6-8 lbs pure muscle in the first 6 months at 200mg/week!! 

00:22:04 - What’s your guys’ favorite movement for each muscle group currently? 

00:29:06 - Can I use the big three all the time? You always seem to alternate cycles with and without them. Why?

00:31:39 - You also never program workouts with legs 3x/week. Why? 

00:34:56 - How to design a 2x/week training program?. How many days a week must one train to make a split “optimal?”

00:39:08 - If a female has sub clinical Test levels, does she really need to supplement? Can she build muscle without it? 

00:43:25 - If I do my cardio on a bike, how do I know I’m getting cardiovascular adaptations and not just my heart pumping oxygen to my muscles? I should clarify that I’m not very used to cycling. I use it as a cross-training instead of running.

00:46:10 - Listening to a recent episode of Revive Stronger with Kenny, it seems many top NATURAL pros train low volume to failure. Why is that such a contrast to what’s advised for the gen pop from those doing and communicating research?

00:52:19 - Would you say Ronnie Coleman was a high, medium or low volume type of lifter (per TNF video on youtube) 

00:59:43 - How do we set a good standard for what actually counts as a set? Is it sets CLOSE to failure? Or all sets? Or only sets that actually hit failure? 

01:01:44 - How do you find quality gyms while traveling? Also, do most gyms have a day pass / drop in rate if you ask? Even if not posted on website? 

01:05:46 - What strength number are you most proud of? As in, what lift and how heavy? 

01:09:14 - If you’ve been training seriously for like five years but you barely every did direct arm work (no curls or tricep direct work), do you think could still get almost “newbie gains” in your arms once you finally start doing them? 

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Transcript

0:25

What is going on guys? Welcome to Eat, Train, Prosper episode of 205. This is going to be our final Eat, Train, Prosper of the year 2025. And with the wrap of 2025 marks the sixth full year of Eat, Train, Prosper. I believe we started in fifth. Fuck, we're on our fifth, fifth, fifth full year. So. Really cool mega mega thanks to Brian for being with me for this long. It's very cool to get to hang out. I'd say this year we averaged probably like three or two point seven episodes per month. Still this far into it and for all of the excellent conversations and hanging out we get to do 15 16 hours away over a computer screen and thank you obviously to all the listeners who tune in. and find value in the things that we go back and forth about. So this is going to be a December or what I call New Year Instagram Q &A. Brian has some updates and we're going to dive right in. Yeah, also very thankful for being able to do this with you and stay connected all these years later. Super cool. ah Also kind of cool that we're just over 200 episodes in five years, which means we're averaging a little over 40 episodes per year. Like you said, this was probably our slowest year, but still kind of cool that we're averaging over 40 a year across the lifespan. hopefully we can keep that going in some capacity over the next few years as well. okay. So jumping into updates, I have three, uh, we have had another, what they call a PSPS in Boulder. It's a purposeful shutdown of power. Uh, they do this ahead of heavy winds in Boulder. This is like the third time they've done it now. So they give you a warning. They're like, Hey, we're going to shut your power off, prepare a head, blah, blah, blah. Which is actually kind of cool that they do that. Um, also kind of annoying that we have to deal with this been considering getting a generator as a lot of my friends have now done that. ah As it just like you don't exactly know when the power is coming back on. It's at the peril of the winds. You don't know if when they purposefully shut it down, it's going to then have uh delayed effects of when it's actually restored because power lines blew down or a tree there or whatever. It's just it's up in the air. It's ambiguous and it's really hard to plan and keep your food fresh and all of that stuff. So it's been annoying. They've also canceled school because when there's no power, school can't happen. So. So much for like having school Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, we're just like sailing into winter break with the last three days, no school. So also kind of annoying as parents there. The winds were so heavy yesterday, it blew over an entire like 70 foot pine tree across the road, right by my house. It just snapped right at the base. ah So I was kind of hesitant to go outside and like do any cardio in that crazy wind. So I did what I have. done in the past, which I create these like, I call them house AMRAP. So I use like rowing and burpees and shuttle runs in my basement and stair runs. And it basically turns into like a CrossFit workout. So I did a 60 minute AMRAP yesterday since I didn't even get to get outside at all. And it was terrible. I wanted to quit at like 20 minutes at 40 minutes. And then I got to 50 and I was like, man, I'm so close. I guess I just need to finish this thing out. but it brought back all the memories of CrossFit and all the terrible body feels and the spasming on the floor at the end like a dead animal. uh Luckily, it was all mostly body weight stuff, so I'm not sore or anything today, but uh nice reminder of why CrossFit is not part of my daily agenda anymore at this point. Okay, second update. I am now a little over a week into my TRT. This episode is actually being recorded on Saturday. Usually we do Tuesdays, but we had some delays with Aaron's training camp in Bangkok. So I'm now like a little over a week into my TRT. Aaron and I have had some back and forth about the dosing process because My vial of liquid is supposed to be three quarters gone now since I've done three of my four doses, but visually it looks almost identical. I've gotten on Reddit and on chat GPT and all of these sources are telling me that this is normal. This is how it goes. The first time you do TRT, it's a visual illusion. An optical illusion is what they call it in that the rounded bottom of the vial is such that uh it looks as if you're not using any of the oil, but you actually are. So I recorded a video of my whole process and I sent it to Aaron and he was like, yeah, something seems a little sketchy here. uh Really not sure if I'm fully dosing myself at this point or if I'm essentially micro dosing TRT maybe. ah So after I do my fourth dose tomorrow, we will see if the bottle is gone as it's supposed to be or whether it still looks the same as a full bottle. And then I maybe need to like reconsider how I'm doing this, but ah Chat GPT thinks I'm doing it right. So for the moment, I'm continuing as planned and we'll see what happens to the vial at that point. Overall, not really feeling anything yet. I mean, maybe like very slightly I'm feeling like a little more energetic in the morning. It could be placebo. I would assume I'm probably not feeling much at this point. So just stay in the course and we will see. Final update, we have holiday plans. We're taking a cruise. from uh end of December through the new year. And I'm not as excited about it as I should be. I feel like cruises have this super busy, em just very alcohol driven party vibe to them. And I'm just not the type of person that likes to be stuck somewhere. I like to get my body out and move in nature and all that sort of stuff. So. A little hesitant or apprehensive about being trapped on a boat for seven days. I know we're docking and going places, which is cool. I'm looking forward to that, but I don't know. I guess we'll see. I haven't been on a cruise since spring break in college. And so this will be the first one I'm doing with a family. We'll see how it goes. And uh that's pretty much all I got. How about you? Yeah, I did forget I had an update. So I spent Wednesday through this past Friday. So like nine, nine days in Bangkok. So my friend Ben Broughton hosts a training camp, Ben Hans Bangkok training camp each year. And this year I was invited to teach. So I did my first ever in-person training in a gym with other leading other humans. through training sessions, so I'd have a group of two or three with me taking people through training sessions hands on. So that was pretty cool. And then I gave my first uh professional lecture in person as well. two things, I was much more nervous about the lecture. I had like a two hour block to teach and my presentation was a... Mastering client communication for superior coaching results, which is something that I feel pretty passionate about In inside the space and then training was really really cool So I just got to take two or three guys through push pull legs and then my sweet I had a fourth day when we trained push again Each day different group. So it was a lot of fun. Just teaching things that I've learned over my 22 years training uh in person for the first time and everyone was very, very receptive, had a really good time and it was a very, very good experience for me. Yeah, we've talked a bit about this offline, but these types of camps, as you've noted, are notorious for lack of sleep, but also for manifestation of like insane amounts of energy and adrenaline just kind of fueling you on how cool the experience is and being able to constantly be inundated and surrounded by all these different people that respect you and that you're able to kind of influence in a super positive way. And So I'm really glad that you've gotten to experience that and uh hopefully more of them in the future. Yeah, I think we're doing some planning for next year and I think there's going to be a couple seminars in camp. So one will be stateside as we get more details. I'll obviously release details on that and I'm sure some listeners and some of my own personal clients will fly to that seminar, which I'll be excited for. That one's going to be three days long and then we're going to do a camp in Bali I think next summer for probably either five or seven days long. And you'll be living in the west side of the United States at that point. Yep, but I already have two trips planned back to Bali in the first half of the year. Sweet, should we dive in or sorry, anything else from you before we dive in? that's it, man. I think this first question will go to you because it was sent in to you and uh it's about as general as it gets. the question is mini-cut training principles? in a very short and straightforward way. don't change. A mini-cut, I think by definition, is two to six weeks. Right, two weeks on the hyper short end and six weeks on what would be considered like a pretty conservative mini cut. It's just too long to need to change training. what's the kind of worst case scenario would be a six week mini cut. Your training volume stays high or at baseline and you need a deload at the end of the mini cut because of the training and the reduction in caloric. ah intake and increase or decrease in recovery capacity. So be it at six weeks. It's a short enough timeframe that I would strongly suggest not changing any variables besides your food and potentially uh increase in energy expenditure. Yeah, and then I guess just for anyone that isn't familiar with the very basic nature of a mini-cut training principle, it would essentially be that the deficit is even more aggressive and larger than a standard cut because you're doing it as a sprint, so to speak. So it has to be a little bit harder in the paint there. And that's kind of the whole idea is instead of cutting calories 500 calories, say, or 300 calories and doing it over a long period of time, you might go 1,000 or 1,500 calorie deficit or something crazy. Um, and kind of just do that for a two week or three week or four week period. Exactly. All well this next question I'm actually super curious about, it's about your training camp here. the question was, when Aaron trained at camp recently, did he stick to his low volume program or did he jump in with the other guys training programs? So I alluded to this a little bit in the intro, but I led groups through training. um And the goal of the camp is for them to learn as much as possible and to push them and to show them what training at a high level looks like, like a pro bodybuilding level. ah We had natural guys, natural pros and stuff there as well. pretty much I did not train my low volume, I trained. high volume to maximize what we could get out of the attendees for the training sessions that we had. It would be, I think, a disservice to the camp attendees if I was like, okay, we're doing four exercises today, one set, you know, and move on. I would never do that to people attending a camp. So I pivoted, we made jokes about it over the week, but I had an approximate 4X increase in volume overnight across the days. Yeah. How did that manifest in like soreness or fatigue or anything like that? Fatigue was more a factor of the diminished sleep volume because of I still had all my normal coaching. ah What's that word responsibilities to attend to. So I was it was very very early mornings late nights but I was moderately sore but not crushed like I had expected which was pretty interesting. But at the same time I kind of knew for example the leg day was like crazy and obviously with legs it's a I don't know kind of like a like an ego thing like everyone has to train really really hard We all like you know crush ourselves so my group I ended us with 20 set Widowmaker rep 20 rep Widowmaker set on the leg press with a pause and in the in the stretch and then in full Kind of you know having to be the leader I Didn't want to put an extra plate on but I knew if I put it on I could I could do it and I had, and I was like, God damn it. I really don't want to put this extra plate on, but I need to, you know, I need to lead from the front for my team. So I threw an extra plate on each side on the leg press for my 20 rep and I ended up getting like 24 reps and the last like four reps were just pure hell. But then knowing the training session that I just did, I basically ate as much carbohydrate as I could fit in my body for the rest of the night. So I probably had 700 grams of carbs that day and I only got like moderately sore, like a normal kind of leg soreness, but I made sure to put a lot of fluid in after, in like a lot of rice and pita bread and those sorts of things. And yeah, it worked out decently. So now do you jump back onto your kind of single set low volume program as you were just right back into the grind. Cool. And then my last question on this while we're on the topic is you've pointed out a couple of times on your story as you're doing this program, just how well you're responding to this like super low volume, high intensity training. And if I'm correct, I think it's you're doing seven exercises per session, like two chest, two back, a shoulder. bicep and a tricep, something along those lines for upper body. And so mostly, you know, seven working sets is that kind of the idea is that what's at the training you've been doing. Yeah, it's crept up a little bit. So I would say I average on the upper body days eight to nine exercises. And what I ended up doing actually was I only do biceps once over the week and I only do triceps once over the week. And I moved that other exercise to uh delts. Yeah. So like two exercises for chest, two for delts, two for back, and then occasionally a. Yeah, I might do three for back. I do three for back on both days, yeah. Nice. I like that. So is that a, like a wide AB ducted row type for the upper back, a lat pull down one, and then what would the third consist of? Another lat one? Or no, another upper back one. emphasis on my upper back, so I'm actually only doing one lats. ah I have to think now, because it's been almost two weeks since I've done it. I think I only have one lat exercise, specific lat exercise. No, I have one on each day. So I have like a bent over barbell row that's still done with a little bit of a lat emphasis. So I'm like keeping the elbow in close. And then I have a supported unilateral cable row. But then two upper back, one lat. on one day, two upper back, one lat on the other day, because the upper back just needs to be my priority. My lats are much more better developed than my upper back. Sweet, awesome, sounds good. Okay, this one is for you, Brian. Do you expect to gain muscle and strength on TRT? I gained six to eight pounds pure muscle in the first six months at 200 milligrams per week. Yeah, I mean that that is a larger dose than I'm doing. I've talked about how I'm, you know, around 100 milligrams a week. So 50 milligrams twice throughout the week. And to be honest, like I, I don't really, I don't really care if I gain muscle. I don't know if I may at some point, my thought would be maybe two to four pounds, but uh I honestly would be totally happy not to gain any muscle because the reason that I'm doing TRT is more for the kind of subjective sense of wellbeing in life. like I was talking to this guy at one of the dads at school and he overheard me talking to one of the moms about how I was starting TRT and he's like, oh, you're doing that? Like, you seem very young and like, you know, very in shape and blah, blah, like, why do you need TRT? And I was just kind of like thinking about that. And my answer was mostly that if I'm 43 and I could potentially feel similarly to the way I felt in my 20s or whatever, like I am game for that. So I don't feel at 43 like I'm struggling with, you know, energy or any of these things. It's like I said before, you know, the I'm still working out six days a week. I'm still doing all the things that I need to do in life to work and be a parent and all these things. It would just be really cool if I could do them with slightly less discipline and slightly more intrinsic motivation. So that's really the basis of it for me. I'm not like sitting here struggling being like, man, like if I don't get TRG, I don't know if I'm gonna make it. um I really just want a low dose to subjectively feel better. And I don't intend on gaining any muscle from it, but if it happens, like you guys will be the first to know. Yeah, I'm very interested. think... I don't know. And that's me being honest with everyone. There's been a lot of things that are kind of hard for me to wrap my head around with my experience. And obviously it's a lot different. I'm a bit of an outlier, I would say, in my experience. But I got my labs done. first day when I was back in first day in Thailand. And because I have spoken about this numerous times in the podcast, I've had a lot of high estrogen symptoms. And I just I can't run my TRT at 150 milligrams per week, my estrogen is too high. um And and by too high, mean, symptom derived, right? Sex drive gone. I'm super, super watery. get like ever tension around my ankles and stuff, which is it turns into an absolute disaster when I fly. So I knocked it down to 125 and I got my my labs taken day one in Thailand. I've been running 125 since I got back from um what was that place I went for my honeymoon, Japan. So I got back from Japan on the 19th. So I had. Sorry, three. No I got back on the second so I won. I'd like nine ten days at the reduced dose. OK. And that using an anthea is approximately you know enough for that time to clear um my test came back super physiologic or sorry physiological nine seventy two upper end but still not. And now physiologic uh in a physiologic range I'm not losing muscle mass or anything and I'm still. way larger than I was as a natural. I'm talking 40 pounds heavier at an equal body fat percentage. So ah almost equal. So it I would be I think with you how you train because in the other facets of your life that you have in place I do think you will put on some muscle but I think it will be from your a change in nutrient partitioning. because with the exogenous testosterone you partition carbohydrate much more favorably. And I'm I there's things that I can't explain and that's why I'm saying on the podcast I honestly don't know but I know the things that I've observed in myself and like close friends even running lower doses in its even people I've had now two clients switch from using in clomophene for their TRT and that in clomophene put them super physiologic and the ranges. to running exogenous testosterone at an approximate equal. Their ranges are actually lower now. The physique changes are undeniable. And I take, am in control of their nutrition. I'm in control of their training. And these are clients I've worked with for years. So there's things, like I said, I don't understand the mechanisms, but changes do take place. And I feel very confident in that state. When in the process do you think that those changes start to be noticed? At a true 100 milligrams, I would say maybe like four-ish weeks in. Yeah. And what it would start is you might notice like, man, I'm hungry. I'm like, and because like you live a very similar, like your training frequency and volume is similar, you're pretty regimented within your own baseline of how your nutrition is. uh You'll just start, I think, seeing things there. Once the dose is actually. are ensuring that it's all making it inside of you. Yeah. know if I'm just placebo-ing myself into it right now, but I feel like I'm way watery, more watery and like bloated than, uh I would expect to be at this body weight. So I've already lost some body weight since like two weeks ago when this all started, I've just been eating less and my appetite's been a bit lower. So I, I feel like even though I've lost weight, I should be feeling leaner and like, oh, things are popping, but I just feel like that smaller watery like bloated version of myself. So I'm waiting for things to kind of turn background or clear out or whatever is going to happen. Yeah, you just have to wait. Don't change anything for at least like four weeks because then you won't know what the change was. Okay. uh then to here, I guess we'll be quick on this one. Just kind of go through the question is what's your guys' favorite movement for each muscle group currently? How about we just pick we like we pick a muscle group. I choose mine. You choose yours. I move on to the next one. That'll be pretty easy, right? yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. Cheers. So we can go, yeah, chest. like the, you and I both, I think maybe agree on this one, the fly press hybrid with the cables, it's kind of seated cable fly press hybrid, I think is my favorite. I just love the fly press across any version. I love the dumbbell one as well. I know you're not a huge fan of that one, but any of those chest movements where my arms are slightly abducted, but not so wide as to be a fly and not so narrow as to be a press, those ones just work for me. I don't know, I think. Almost all of my chest training now is some version of that slightly abducted elbow position. Yeah, I definitely agree there. Let's stick with the pressing uh movements. I don't want to do like anterior delt and forearms and all those things. Let's pick the major ones lateral delt. Yeah. Yeah. Lateral delt. I think it's still and has been for a long time, the lying cross cable wire is so you're lying on your back. The cables are in front of you like if you were doing a standard wire is. ah But I don't know something about having that stability of the bench behind me. And then I kind of prop the headrest up slightly and call it like a princess headrest, as Jordan Lipp says. It just it just feels so good. And it allows me to really push my lateral delt specifically to the limit without. any compensation. I really liked that one too. I should put that in, especially now at Undefeated, I have the capacity to set it up well with our free motions. Mine right now would be the Jim Leco standing lateral raise machine. It has a really nice counterbalance that drops off in the short. So the counterbalance pivots like this. So it gives you no support in the lengthened and then drops off in the short. So that one's really, really nice. I'm enjoying that. is what I would say recurrently. Yeah, I set up the cross cable wire is the same way where the forearm is perpendicular to the resistance at the stretched position. So it actually does get a little bit easier as you get to the short position as well, which is really nice for lateral dealt work. I find any lateral dealt work that is short overloaded like a standard dumbbell lateral raise. It just feels wonky at the top. It's so hard and it just doesn't feel good on my shoulders and then overloading them more length and just kind of feel smoother throughout. Yeah, I would agree with that. Triceps. upper back or stick with triceps? Yeah. And I think my all time favorite has to be the one arm overhead cable tricep extension. I don't actually have that in my program at the moment, but I really do like that single arm variation. And I'm not as big of a fan of the bilateral version. Like it's fine. But I really do like the single arm one where you can kind of line the elbow up perfectly in that scapular plane. I would have to say currently is a prime short bar, cable tricep press down, but you use wrist cuffs wrapped around the base of your palm. So it's about like shoulder width grip. The cuffs are in here and it just, don't have worry about the grip as much and it's, you get a nice stretch. kind of just walk until you're in a stretch. And that, that I would say is my favorite. put the guys at camp through that and they really liked it as well. Yeah, that one's in my program right now too, exactly that same way. But I'm super setting it with tricep pushups afterwards and taking a set of those push downs to failure and then going right into the pushups is super gnarly. Yeah. Upper back. All right, I think for me it is and probably always has been for a while the chest supported T-bar row and that is really specific to my home gym because if I had access to everything I think it would be the seated prime, uh prime row that has the D handles on it and the chest support that you and I did at the gym in Prospect when you were here visiting in Colorado. That's probably my favorite upper back. version of the the pulling but the t-bar row that I have at home is my best option. Right now, I would have to say it is a cambered bar, like bent over row right now. I'm really, really enjoying that and that's the exercise I would say on the training day that I have it that I'm most itching to progress. about that. We have the the Nautilus Explode pull down and it it's it's I think it's unbeatable literally. So that one is a I mean you set it up with a cable as well but you unilateral not a straight pull down like maybe a 45 maybe even like a 40 degree just elbow straight down with a semi supinated grip. It's really really hard to beat that stimulus for me with that exercise. Yeah, I basically do the same thing with my cable and seated on the bench using my hand to kind of brace against the top of the bench that's set up vertically. And that's for sure, for the last number of years been my favorite lap movement. And I kind of twist my torso just ever so slightly. So the arm is coming across the body, just a teeny little bit. So it's not directly sagittal plane. It's slightly, I guess transverse would be. the idea there where you're pulling a little bit across the body and a little bit more stretch of that lacrosse, but more or less the exact same. Yeah. Okay. So that's upper back uh or sorry, upper back lats, biceps. Very similar to the tricep that I said I set that up, but with uh nylon or plastic D handles and a standing facing the cable, cable curl with the short bar. I love it. Yeah, I don't love the facing the cable one for whatever reason. I kind of feel like similar to the way I feel about short overloaded lateral delt movements and that it's just hard. A, on really short overload movements, it's kind of hard to assess like exactly where failure is because it almost feels like you can always do like a little bit more. And like even just the 1 % little bit of elbow flexion coming forward or. torso lean like can change your ability to get one to four more reps. And I don't love that ambiguity. So I prefer the movement to be done as a face away curl because I think that lengthened profile makes the movement much easier to kind of assess where you are in relation to failure and also to kind of pin your elbows down. So you and I have talked about how when we curl the face away, we like to pin the elbows back and kind of like pin them against the lats in a way so they don't move. ah And that's something that you can't really do in the facing cable curl. So I really prefer that face away version. And that's kind of the primary one that I use. Yeah, perfect. I think that's it. We don't, mean, we could do like calves and abs and stuff, but I think that's probably fine for today. Okay, yeah. yeah, let's see. use the big three all the time? You always seem to alternate cycles with and without them. Why? Yeah, I've had this question a lot between my various programs and stuff. And you get a lot of people, especially those coming from like that CrossFit background that have so much of their identity tied to the squat bench and deadlift. And they just want to do them all the time. And so the main reason I don't is because for the most part, we're running hypertrophy programs, or at least the goal is some version of like hypertrophy plus sustainability. And so the majority of people's goals are not simply to be the strongest that they can at squat bench deadlift. uh And if we're choosing movements to use in a hypertrophy program or even, you know, a long-term sustainability program where one would like to be able to train for the next 15 to 20 years, uh I just feel like there are better choices of movements that you can use. And so I don't not program those movements. I just don't program them all the time. So I like to program through a periodized way in which We have, you know, 12 or so weeks of hypertrophy. And then we have a strength cycle where we'll usually include those movements in a lower rep form so that we can kind of continue to hammer them, work on the strength piece, scratch that itch, so to speak, and then go into somewhat more of like a hypertrophy metabolic cycle and then back to like a pure hypertrophy. So over the course of the year, we're generally doing those movements for two bouts of six weeks each, where to me that seems like a sufficient amount of time for general population to do those movements. If you really wanted to do them all the time, I think that's fine. I think if you're not a performance based like powerlifting type trainee, just, it seems like. It seems like there are just better movements that would cause less fatigue and still allow you to get the stimulus that you're after without training them all the time. And to be honest, I've also even found through people that have asked this question before, that when I tell them that, if you just hammer RDL really hard for this cycle, then you go to the deadlift again, you know, a number of weeks later, you might actually find that your deadlift improves simply because you have. better midline stability and better posterior chain activation and all of these things that come from using the RDL as your primary movement. And if you were just always deadlifting and making an RDL like a secondary movement, you may not be able to harness some of those same gains that you'd be able to get by alternating between them. What do you think? I mean, why do or can you use the big three all the time? Of course you can. Right. I very rarely program them. And because all the programming I do is hypertrophy based. If I have a client who comes to me and is like, I want a really good strength program, I say, great, I'm not the resource for you to provide that. ah You can. It's just like Brian said, if we have hypertrophy or physique is the goal. There's just better, most often there's just better tools to fit that job. Simple as that. OK, this one is also for you. also never program workouts with legs three times per week. Why? Yeah, we've talked about this on the pod before as well. I just really think that with the primarily dominant lengthened overload of most lower body movements, it becomes really hard to successfully train and progress legs three times a week. ah With that said, I do very much believe that there is a way you could program legs three times a week, but you would have to be very precise about the inclusion of short overload movements. those essentially being the ones that cause less damage like your leg extensions, your leg curls, your barbell or your glute bridges in general, your cable kickbacks and the adductor and abductor machines and things like that. um So because on a general population level, it's really hard to ensure that everyone has the right equipment across the board to be able to make this work. That would be the main reason why I don't. But with that said, we actually have a brand new cycle starting at Paragon in January on the 5th, which is our booty shoulder specialization cycle. One of our most popular cycles ever for we did it in 2021 again in 2023. So bringing it back in early 2026 and in prior years, I never programmed three leg days in that cycle for all those reasons that I just said. But this cycle, I'm changing it up. And uh just for our five day program, so we have a five day, a four day and a three day. Obviously I don't think you can program legs three days a week in a four day or a three day program. uh So on our five day program, I have a day that is uh quad and glute dominant to start the week, or no, hamstring and glute dominant to start the week. And then uh quad and glute dominant to end the week. And both of those are a little bit more lengthened overloaded. And then in the middle of the week on Wednesday, we have uh a little bit of extra glute work thrown in. So I would, I can't call it a leg day, but we have some short overload glute exercises on Wednesday. So for anybody that is craving three lower body days and some capacity, you get to hammer them super hard on Monday and Friday. And then on Wednesday, you get some kind of short overload glute work in there. So for the purpose of a glute specialization cycle, this is kind of my best attempt at being able to figure out a way to put it into practice. And we'll see how it goes this cycle. Great. How about we kick this next one to you as well? And then the next one will send to me how to design a two times per week training program. How many days per week must one train to make a split using air quotes here optimal. Yeah, I think the latter part of the question is like to make a split optimal. So the question, think they know the answer to the first part of the question, which is why they asked the second part of the question, how to design a two times a week training program. I think it has to be full body. I don't want to go into like the precise design of how one might do that aside from just saying that it probably needs to be or it does need to be full body if you're training twice a week, unless you're, you know, a hybrid athlete that's doing a shit ton of cardio, then maybe you could get away with like one full body and one upper body session or something like that, depending on what type of cardio you're doing and how it's oriented throughout the week. But I think in most cases, two times a week needs to be a full body program. You're getting three to four days of rest between your days, et cetera. Maybe that would obviously change if you're a weekend warrior. Like I've seen people who are like, I can't train Monday through Friday, but you know, I'll train Saturday and Sunday. In that case, I do think, you know, you have to probably do an upper session. lower session, I don't think you can fit two full bodies in there. But I guess one thing to note here as well is we're we're offering a new program at Paragon starting in January as well. So this is just becoming an ad for for Paragon. But uh many people have have questioned whether we would start a two times a week program. And these are usually people that are doing some sort of hybrid pursuit, like they're training for high rocks, or they have like a marathon goal or something like that. So we're putting out a two times a week full body program now for the first time ever. And if you want to see how I design it, come join us on January 5th. As far as uh how many days a week must one train to make a split optimal? I'm not sure if three days is enough to say like this would be like a push pull legs would be like my idea of a split in that case. At that point, you're still training each muscle group only once per week. So you would need a significant amount of volume to make it worth it to take six full days of rest before hitting that same muscle group again. um There's probably ways, and I've done this, where you can design a three times a week program that might be a little bit more optimal as a split. Say like you have a chest and back day, so you're getting both push and pull on a Monday, and then you have a leg day on a Wednesday, and then say your Friday is shoulders and arms, but you're not just doing shoulders and arms on Friday. Say you're doing like some steep incline work where you're getting a bit of upper chest, you're getting some dips in there for triceps. So maybe then you're getting a little bit of lower chest. uh Maybe your bicep work has some narrow grip pull-ups in there, so you're getting a little bit of back work. And so I think there's some ways where you can make it a little bit more optimal for the upper body on a three day a week split. But in most cases, if we're chasing the word optimal while using a split, I think you're probably going to need at least four days a week of training at that point. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, a two times free training program, it's full body unless it's the weekend warrior, like you said, up or lower. And then how many days per week must one train to make a split optimal? Optimal is there's a constraint called your life to which optimal applies. And I hate that that's the answer, but it is right. If your constraint is you can only train two times per week, then you train. Sorry, was how many days, then you train two times per week, right? If you're like a young, early 20s, you have a professional job, you make sufficient money, you have a decent amount of time on your hands, you could probably train six days per week if you really wanted to. You could make that optimal if your recovery is sufficient, you can train five days per week. Typically, you know, the more frequent you can train. The more food you can eat, the more increase you can put in your recovery capacity. But again, life is the constraint, not the training split, unfortunately. Yeah, that's good context. All right, next one for you here. If a female has subclinical test levels, does she really need to supplement? Can she build muscle without it? Well, let's answer the second part first. Can she build muscle without it? Yes, of course. uh Maybe it is less than if the test levels were at a, you know, optimal sub clinic. That wouldn't be the proper terminology. uh Higher end of the physiologic range. You're probably going to have each. How do I want to say this? Each proverbial push of the pedal will drive you a little bit further. Right. um But does she need a supplement? And I'm not sure in this, context of the question, are we talking about HRT or are we talking about natural testosterone boosting supplements like a Boron or something like that? Does she need to? No, uh I do not think you need to do anything. And I would say in many cases, the supplementation route. typically leads to just frustration and a lighter wallet. The most important things are to take care of your big lifestyle factors, sleep hygiene, adequate fat intake, adequate total carbohydrate intake, not having an unnecessary high amount of cardiovascular activity, know, and, and, and, and, and. So in my experience, those things typically hold down, excuse me, testosterone. oh much more than the latter, but I would not say you need to supplement. And yes, you can still build muscle with subclinical testosterone levels. Yeah, my assumption when reading this was that they were talking about HRT, but now that you mentioned supplement, like that does sound a little bit confusing. ah What would be the symptoms that a female would experience with low test levels? Would it be similar to what a guy would experience? Yeah, low libido, lower amount of drive, diminished recovery capacity, a diminished kind of uh level of kind of oomph in your training, like the amount of aggression you can bring into training. Brain fog potentially a lower enjoyment of life like the way that I there was times where mine was I Can't say it was ever low, but the symptoms of low testosterone were there The way that I can always most accurately describe it is the colors didn't seem to be as vibrant when you like look at the world I would look at you know Fortunately here in beautiful Bali you have these rice field landscapes with trees and stuff and the greens just didn't seem like green They seem like a really muted color And that was like a very good way to explain it. I'm like the colors don't seem to have the same color. Like everything seems like a shade of a gray, like a gray scale almost. And then when they're not like that, I'm like, wow, the colors are popping and vibrant again. Like there's a pep in my step. I'm happy that like the feeling of the sun on my skin feels warm and vibrant. That's how I would describe that difference in feeling for myself. Yeah, that's interesting. Kind of related, just because out of my own curiosity, do you know if there's a way to assess androgen receptor density in that you mentioned, you know, your levels were never subclinical. They were always in the 400s or 500s or whatever, but you felt this way. How would one know whether, you know, for me, say I was at 330 like I've been, but maybe my androgen receptor density is better and thus I'm getting the same benefit from 330 testosterone that maybe someone else gets from 600 or something. those lines, like, is there a way to assess that? Yeah, you go on testosterone and see what your response is. Okay noted. Not that I'm aware of it. There's something called a CAG. I believe it's CAG repeats that I think you might be able to get information on with with some specific versions of uh genetic testing. But I'm speaking like very, very, far outside the bounds of anything I feel confident saying. So potentially. But I I'm not sure. Okay, this one is definitely seems like a Brian question. If I do cardio on a bike, how do I know I'm getting cardiovascular adaptations and not just my heart pumping oxygen to my muscles? I should clarify that I'm not very used to cycling. I just use it as a cross training instead of running. and then says I'm referring to when people, they're doing cardio but it's a no. um I'm not sure I quite understand the question. So how do I know I'm getting cardiovascular adaptations and not just pumping oxygen to my muscles? So they both are kind of happening, yeah, I mean. I the adaptations part is important. So I think that what my response would simply be is like, you know, the goal of cardio is to pump oxygen to your muscles in a sense like that's a that's a background effect of what's happening in cardio is you are pumping oxygen to your muscles. How do know you're getting adaptations is that you are improving over time. So it's like we talked about with weightlifting, the philosophical approach to progressive overload where you're not necessarily forcing progression week to week, but you're getting to a point where you're like, oh, that weight is now too easy. I should increase weight next week. I think it's kind of the same idea with cardio is like, yeah, you're doing the cardio and you're pumping oxygen to your muscles, so to speak. ah But over the course of weeks and months is your performance improving without you like having to force improvement. You're simply doing your cardio as you usually would. And you're like, oh, suddenly I'm doing it a little bit faster. I'm creating more watts or my heart rate is staying the same, but I'm going further in my distance or whatever metrics you're gonna use. I mean, it's the same idea. You just wanna see this improvement over time. um I'm referring to when people, they're doing cardio, but it's a no. uh The last part is really, really confuses to me. So I would just stick with that first part and say that you wanna see that progression over time. If you're using a new, modality, like if you're a runner and you're just picking up cycling as a way to kind of cross train a little bit, then you would want to see that improvement in your primary cardio. So you're using cycling as a way to quote pump oxygen to your muscles. That's great. That's important. That's probably going to help your running in some way. But if you're just kind of going through the motions on the bike and you're not actually seeing any improvement over the weeks and months in your primary objective, then It's probably not working the way that you thought it was. So, uh, yeah, I would just kind of take it from that angle. Yeah. Listening to a recent episode of Revive Stronger with Kenny, it seems many top natural pros train low volume to failure. Why is that such a contrast to what's advised for the general pop from those doing and communicating research? Yeah, did you happen to catch this episode? I did not. Okay, cool. It was actually pretty interesting. So this guy Kenny, he runs a YouTube channel, I think called Longevity Muscle. And he's been doing it for a few years now. And he essentially interviews top natural pros. I think his first guest ever was Jeff Alberts. And he's obviously gone through the list of 3DMJ guys. He's gone into the bank and interviewed guys that were like top natural pros in the 90s and early 2000s, guys that don't even compete anymore. uh I've actually heard a bunch of the names and stuff throughout the years. from just my involvement in the industry. So it's been kind of cool to tune into some of those episodes and hear from some of these guys that I used to follow in my early days when I was just getting started as they kind of talk about the history of their training. So it's actually kind of a cool podcast or YouTube channel if you're interested in any of that stuff. yeah, one of the things that does seem to be a trend across those episodes is that I'd say in my experience listening to it, 60 to 80 % of the people he has on there would train in a manner that I would consider to be low volume, high intensity. And I'll say that that probably is something like under eight sets per muscle group per week with pretty much most things to failure. ah And they span various training paradigms from full body training three times a week all the way up to... body part split, bro split style, but really sticking to this kind of like low volume training approach. And uh I do find that very interesting because I think the latter part of the question where it says, why is this such a contrast to what's advised for the gen pop from those doing and communicating research? So I'm thinking of like, Milo Wolf and Eric Helms and like other kind of top voices in the industry that are promoting these kind of higher volume training programs. You can look at what Like Milo did the 52 weeks, 52 sets per week thing. He like literally tried it himself when that study came out just to like see what would happen. Helms has been famously using 30 plus sets per muscle group per week for his upper body now for the last year or two and getting amazing results. And then obviously you just look at the research itself. And aside from that 52 sets a week study, you have the meta-analyses from the data-driven guys that seem to trend toward more volume being better uh with really no limit. It just kind of like slowly begins to level off almost like in an asim total type way. And so why is that the case? My guess would be that because the general population, which are the people that are being studied are probably not able to quote, go there. in the same way that advanced trainees can. um And I'm not saying that they're not in the lab going to what they perceive as failure, that there isn't somebody there yelling at them to do that extra rep or whatever. I just think there's a piece to coordination and intent that is different than simply going through the motions and hitting failure. And uh that's partially why, like we did an episode a year ago at this point, maybe, where we talked about the natural arc of volume throughout a training career. And we discussed how it kind of like goes up initially, and then maybe your highest point is like in your intermediate years. And then as you become like super advanced, kind of like tapers down a little bit. And I think that much of that has to do with that ability of the athlete to go there, create better intent to get more stimulus. Because at the end of the day, volume is not just volume. Volume is a way to create stimulus. And so somebody could do five sets, but create less stimulus than somebody that does one set simply because somebody is able to go there better and get more out of that set than the other person did out of five sets. So that would kind of be my assumption of it is that these guys are advanced. They've gotten there through years of harnessing their technique um and that that has made it such that they just don't need as much volume to create the same. stimulus. I don't think I could have said it any better myself. The only thing I guess that I would add is it's challenging because we need a way to communicate right so that everyone understands what means. So we speak of something as a set right. A set is just a uh colloquial term to say a time an amount of time spent on a machine or performing an exercise or something like that. But a set from one of the top natural bodybuilders, let's use my friend, Brandon Kempter, for example, because I get to see him train all the time, is worlds apart from a top set of a university student in a research study. That I absolutely guarantee you. So the disruption and stimulus that Brandon can create in a set is worlds apart from what an intermediate or novice can generate on the same piece of equipment, right? So I think again when the top natural pros typically train at a lower volume, it's because they can squeeze so much more out of one singular set than the average commercial, you know, gym goer can. So that would be my take on it there. Yeah, I think we pretty much have similar perspective on that. Cool. Very interesting and similar. Would you say Ronnie Coleman was a high medium or low volume type of lifter per a TNF YouTube video? Yeah, do you know this YouTuber TNF? I TNF, I've not seen any of his YouTube stuff, but I do follow him on Instagram and I will say I am particularly a fan of him. I think his information is pretty good. Yeah, cool. I had actually never even heard of him until this person sent me this question and then they followed up in DMs to send me this video specifically where he analyzed Ronnie Coleman's training. And so I'd say I watched 80 % of this video basically until the end. uh And I was surprised by what was elucidated in the video. So my initial impression was that Ronnie Coleman was a high volume trainee. I think that all of the content that I consumed over the years through flex magazines and watching his videos on YouTube and things like that I was under the impression that Yeah, he was training with four to five sets per muscle group doing four to five exercises per muscle purse per exercise four to five Exercises per muscle group with four to five sets per exercise That was on that was my impression this video seemed to elucidate that Ronnie Coleman was in fact, pyramiding up all of his sets. And so he used a number of examples. He took him through like a chest day, a leg day, and I think it was a back day. Basically, he might do four or five sets, but this is kind of what like his front squat looked like is 10 reps at 135, 10 reps at 225, 10 reps at 315, 10 reps at 405, and then 10 reps at 495. And... The way it was argued in the video was that the only set that really, really counted was the last one, because it was 495 to essentially failure. 405 times 10. I mean, that's a big set. I mean, regardless of how strong you are, 405 times 10 is probably still like a working set at some level, even if it's five RIR. I'm willing to give it credit and say that's a working set. It was really the same thing on his Ben over Rose. It was like, you know, 135 for 20, 225 for 10, 315 for 10, and then 405 for 10. Like that was his training. Like 405 for 10 is the work set. And then 315 for 10 is, yeah, that's still kind of a hard set. But based on this video and taking us through all of the various muscle groups where he essentially did them the exact same way, I think he's getting one or two work sets per exercise. And he's doing three to five. exercises per muscle group. So he's doing somewhere between five to 10 sets per muscle group per week that would be considered working sets. And so in that case, like I would call him a low to medium volume lifter. If that is reality and that's the way that he trained, then I think that's right. And I also think that that's really good for this information to get out there because If I was somebody beginning my training journey and I was watching Ronnie and I was reading in Flex Magazine that he did five by 10 front squats, five by 10 bent over rows, five by 10 of like five different exercises. And I was going in there as a new trainee thinking that those were all work sets. Then I might do one warmup set because I'm not as strong as Ronnie. And then I do five work sets. And that is probably not. what that person should be doing. They should probably be focusing on the one to two top sets, getting the most out of those sets. And I think that if that information was clarified in some way to the masses, whether it's through Flex Magazine or his videos or something like that, I think that that would be a huge net positive for the training environment and in our industry as a whole. So yeah, maybe a low to volume, low volume to medium volume lifter. I don't know, what do you think? I mean, I agree. I agree with everything you said. And I would say, yeah, low to medium. I also think I like the. What's the word I'm looking for here? I can't think of it, I'm sorry. I like that this question is in close proximity to the prior question, right? Because I also, well this was one thing I was going to say. As you get stronger, right, I think your volume inherently. needs to come down a little bit. One, because of joint integrity and typically joint integrity and age and strength are usually linearly correlated. But then also your warmups become more robust and you do accumulate some stimulus in those warmups because you can't let's say you're doing I don't know let's 405 right. You can't go from like 135 for a set of 20. Like there's my warmup now I'm going to 405. You need to kind of incrementally Adjust your body to the load that you're going to be using you have to prep to move to perform at a high uh Load amount so you do accumulate some stimulus through that warm-up process and typically the stronger that you are the more comprehensive your warm-ups become for example ah Chris stuff and I think that was his name. He was a power lifter And in 2020, maybe 2021, he squatted a thousand pounds for two reps, I believe. And the lead up to it was rather extensive. He squatted, I don't know, like 225, 405, 495. And then he all the way up to like 800 or something like that, or 850 was his final warm up. He did like seven, eight warm up sets. before this top set performance. You need to be primed to perform. So as you are stronger, you need more priming. Therefore your total accumulated like warmup sets potentially bleed over into a stimulatory, net stimulatory range, even though it isn't, know, quote unquote, an actual working set. Yeah, I actually think we see a lot of the same with Dorian Yates. And so it's really interesting that, you you can look at Ronnie Coleman and be like, he's a high volume lifter because five by 10 of all these various movements. And then you look at Dorian Yates and if his program was written the same way that Ronnie's was like, you could literally write his as five sets of the bench, five sets of flies like. But his was done in such a manner that it was like he was. he was believed to be a low volume lifter. So people almost gave him the benefit of the doubt. And they're like, those earlier sets, they don't count because he's not really at failure. But with Ronnie, for some reason, people just were like, yeah, all of those are work sets. Like, I don't know why there's a disconnect between the way that they perceive people simply by whether they are predetermined as a high volume or a low volume lifter. But my guess would be that the way that Ronnie and Dorian both got to their top set was probably somewhat similar. Maybe Dorian did fewer reps. He might've pyramid down his reps where Ronnie kinda kept the reps stable, but they're still both getting to the point where they're doing one set that's basically to failure or really close to failure. um So it's interesting to kinda see that across as well. Yeah. OK so the next question is very very similar. How do we set a good standard for what actually counts as a set. Is it sets close to failure or all sets or only sets that actually hit failure. Yeah, I think we've sort of hammered this already in the prior two questions. I think it's probably sets close to failure. Like you can't count all sets, obviously. Like Ronnie's 135 by 10 front squat is not a set that counts. But by the same token, like we probably wouldn't, we probably would count his 405 by 10, even though he still had some RIR there. And even though he could go to 495, that's still a significantly challenging work set where you kind of have to like, get in the mindset for. uh Like RIR is probably the best way to do it where you're like, okay, like any set within three reps of failure, say, depending on the movement. if it's a pull down, I would say anything within two or three reps of failure. If it's a really heavy squat or deadlift, that can be five or six reps from failure. I think that's still a work set. um But so it is a little bit exercise dependent, but I do think that It's not just sets all the way to failure and uh it's definitely not all sets either. It's somewhere in between and it's probably exercise dependent. Yeah. What I say is in its intent based. Right. Is this the intent when I unwracked this. Am I warming up still or am I working. And that's what I think if I if I had to provide a very simple answer that's what I would say. What are you going in this set with the intent of. Is it to continue warming up or is it to perform. And that's what that's how I would define it. Yeah, I think that's right. All right, cool. I'm gonna send this next one to you, because you are the master of this. So how do you find quality gyms while traveling? Also, do most gyms have a day pass drop-in rate, if you ask, even if it's not posted on the website? So part one, how to find quality gyms while traveling. What I do is I go on Google Maps and I kind of zoom in at the general area that I will be or that I am looking for. And I type in bodybuilding in the search bar and it's going to to return bodybuilding adjacent type stuff. Now obviously let's say I wanted to find a CrossFit gym. I'm going to type in CrossFit. Okay. And as long as you get a close enough term. Google is going Google Maps is going to provide you pretty adjacent things. They all type in bodybuilding and it will show me like, you know, private personal training studios and stuff. And then I just click through all the options. Right. And see. And if there's like nothing there, I kind of move them to move the map over to a new area. Now, I'm not like hyper zooming in on like a neighborhood. I'm I'm zooming in on maybe like a 20, 25 minute drive. And then I look through the photos right. You can typically see it tell from the photos the type of Jim it is the type of equipment in there those sorts of things. I narrow down a list and then I might look for them on Instagram where I can find more posts or tags from other people there and see and make my decision from there. If they have a website I'll pop on there see what it says or sometimes I'll just DM them on Instagram and say hey I'm coming into town I love the what the facility looks like would love to drop in for a day or sometimes I just show up right. as a gym owner, which, I guess technically that is true. You make a lot more money per visit from your drop ins as opposed to a monthly, quarterly or yearly member. So most gyms are typically going to take a day rate because a day rate might be 20 to like 40, $50 in some gyms, right? So that's what I do. Yeah, I do think that almost every gym takes drop-ins, so that would be the first part of that. I've never been to a gym actually that doesn't. So absolutely you can do that. As far as finding quality gyms while traveling, I've kind of fallen out of this game a little bit, and that's simply because I think that while I used to almost feel as if finding the best gym and dropping into a gym was sort of like the highlight of my travel in a way. I just don't feel that way anymore. And so in most cases, I plan my life so that I don't even have to go in search of a gym. think part of that also is now that I have kids, that's kind of changed a little bit too, because if I get a little bit of personal time when I'm traveling with the family, I'm probably not gonna use that personal time to go off and. find my way to a gym, spend an hour and a half in the gym, find my way home from the gym, basically a two to three hour experience away from the family. It's fine, it's much more conducive for me at this point to bring my rings, set up them on a tree branch, do some pull-ups, do some push-ups, maybe throw in like some pistol squats, call that like a fine workout for the day, do my cardio, go for a run, something like that, where I can fit that in while hanging out with the kids or in like a 30 to 40 minute window or something like that. So it hasn't been a priority for me recently. So I actually can't even say that I've gone in search of a really quality gym in a number of years, but I did used to really enjoy that when I was traveling and it used to be something I would really look forward to. Like I would plan my travel and being like, wow, there's this like really cool gym that I get to drop into an experience. uh And I just don't have that experience anymore. It's been a little over half a decade probably since I've even done that. So I think following Aaron's advice there is probably best. Yeah, I live for that shit. And oftentimes when clients like they're like, I'm traveling here. Do you know any gyms? like, let me take on this non revenue generating project that I don't need to do right now. But I'm like itching to find a sick gym for you to go to on your trip. Yeah. with you. All right. Next question. I'll kick over to you for the moment. What strength number are you most proud of? As in what lift and how heavy? I think it would be my snatch back in the Olympic lifting days. I have it on video. I don't remember exactly. I think it was 116 kilos, which is 252, 253, something like that. 255. Okay. Yeah. So that was 2014 or 2015. I would say that was, I cared so much about it and I wanted it like so badly. So that's what, and because I sucked at snatching for so long, which I'm sure you remember, Brian. um So that one felt like really good to finally move like a respectable number for, because I was so poor at it for quite a while. Yeah, I 100 % would say my snatch too. That was the first one that came to mind for me. My number was also 255. I did it in pounds, not in kilos, but I know 116 is 255 because 115 is 253 or 252 or something like that. So we basically have the exact same snatch number and it's most proud for me, not because like in your case, how it was such a work in progress for you and you had to put so much time and effort into it. I think for me, snatching actually came a little bit more naturally in that I hit 255 in my second or third year of even doing CrossFit Olympic lifting at all. But the thing that I'm the most proud of about it is that I have always been relatively poor at squatting. So based on where my back squat was at the time, which I think my PR was 385 at the time that I snatched 255. that's significantly more weight in the snatch than one would expect to be able to snatch given their back squat strength. And then since that point, I did do a back squat kind of specialization thing where I got up to, I think I had a 415 or 420 single or something like that. So I'm also really proud of that number because for somebody that had never squatted 400 before to be able to go from like where I went for was 385 or 390 or whatever up to 415 or 420. as someone that had been training 15 plus years at that point, that felt really cool for me. So I would say the snatch, the back squat, the clean, like I clean 320, again, that's kind of a big number based on where my back squat was at the time. So I feel pretty cool about that. I think what it basically demonstrates is that I'm more technically proficient than I am strong. And so there's a part of me that kind of likes that as well, that like I'm just good enough at those lifts that I was able to manifest something that I was proud of there. So that was super fun. Yeah. Those those were like I vividly remember that lift and knowing that I had it that day and I think it took me like my fifth or sixth try. um It was fun. And I remember the day that you snatched that 250 and like I are 255. I can vividly remember exactly where you were and exactly where I was, which is really cool to still have those memories and stuff of these memories. I really don't necessarily need of memories of your PRs and then where I was in the gym and stuff, but it was very cool. man, that's awesome. Okay. This one if you've our final question if you've been training seriously for approximately five years but you barely ever did any direct arm work no curls no tricep direct work. Do you think you could still get almost quote unquote newbie gains in your arms once you finally start training them. No, you can't get newbie gains. Can you get almost newbie gains? I don't know if I'd even go that far. And the reason being that you are training your arms if you've been training for five years. Like if you were training your back and your chest and your shoulders, you are training your arms. You're not training the primary function directly necessarily. uh specific to the triceps, it's likely that you didn't really train the long head very much because through all the pressing, you're gonna get lateral and medial head. um But man, I can straight up tell you that I have seen some military guys that have told me they have done nothing but pushups and pull ups for their upper body training for the last 10 to 15 years. And these guys... arms are insanely developed. Like they have horseshoe triceps and veins and massive biceps. And like, I just, I also didn't train arms for the first three years of my training journey, cause I was following hard gainer where basically everything was supposed to be a large compound movement where you get the most bang for your buck. And my arms grew. uh you definitely 100 % will improve your arms when you go to beginning to training them directly. Like there is for sure some gains to be had, but I don't feel comfortable saying that it would be newbie gains or even almost newbie gains. Yeah, I I'll answer it slightly differently. If your arms are pretty small relative to the rest of your physique, like a purely obvious weak point, you may get some easier gains to be had by actually trading them. But if your arms are pretty much on par with the rest of the physique development that you have, like Brian said, you've probably gotten sufficient stimulus through your compounds. And what I would consider I guess like a positively framed collateral damage of the work that you had been doing and you probably will not experience this explosion in your arms that would put them into like a strong body part now. So if they suck and you start training them, you'll probably bring them up to the rest of your physique. But if they're already approximately on par with the physique that you already have, I don't think you're going to like supersede that and just have these giant arms in your physique now. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And it actually makes me think about how people that first start training are probably not even very good at taking the arms out of their movements. Like when someone first begins training back, they're likely pulling with their biceps a lot more than somebody that's a seasoned veteran and knows how to target their lats really well by focusing on scapular depression and driving the elbow down and all of these various tools. You're likely pulling with your arm using a lot more elbow flexion. And when you're doing your presses, you're likely pressing with your triceps a lot more and not really feeling like how to activate your chest properly. So my guess would be that you're using your arms more than you think you are now currently. And while you're not doing the direct flexion and extension work that you would get from the isolated bicep and tricep exercises, uh it would surprise me if you get anything even close to newbie gains after five years. Yeah, agreed. All right, guys. So that is all we have for our final episode of the year. As always, like I said, thank you for all of us who have joined us on this five year journey. Thank you for providing the questions and a listening ear for all the things Brian and I have an interest in talking about. And we will see you in 2026 for year six of Eat, Train, Prosper. Thanks guys.