21 - Part 2: Higher Education, University & the transition Into employment

Welcome to the Living With SMA Podcast.

In PART 2️⃣  of Episode 21 of the #LivingWithSMA Podcast we'll be looking at the pros and cons of university. We'll also be talking about work experience and sharing advice for those who decide not to go to university.

#LivingWithSMA  #SMAUK #SMA #SpinalMuscularAtrophy

Watch this episode on our YouTube channel here.

Each of our guests today shares their own personal views and individual stories.

You can contact SMA UK on the following social media platforms ⬇️⬇️

twitter.com/SMA_UK_
facebook.com/SpinalMuscularAtrophyUK/
instagram.com/sma_uk

If you do have any questions for Ross, Mia, Steven and the team or would like to participate in any of our podcasts please email luis.castro@smauk.org.uk

Living With SMA-'Higher Education, University & the transition into employment' disclaimer:
The views expressed in this episode belong to the Podcast Participants and not the charity SMA UK, its partners, or employees.  All opinions expressed by the Podcast Participants are solely their current opinions and do not reflect the opinions of SMA UK.  The Podcast Participants' opinions are based upon information they consider reliable, but neither SMA UK, nor the companies with which such participants are affiliated, warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such.

Transcript

0:00:01.6 Intro: Hi there, and welcome to the Living With SMA Podcast. We're here to have conversations about living with spinal muscular atrophy. Throughout this podcast, we will be covering lots of different topics from preparing for university, getting the motion of your personal budget, sex and relationships, and lots lots more. So we invite different folks from across the SMA community to come together here. We want to answer your questions, provide you with useful tips and recommendations, and also share personal stories. So please do reach out and connect with us here at the charity SMA UK. Thank you for listening and we hope you find the podcast useful.

0:00:45.9 In part two, we'll be looking at the pros and cons of university. We'll also be talking about work experience and sharing advice for those who decide not to go to university. And before we move on from sort of leaving uni, for anyone who's watching and thinking about whether they should go to uni or not, and they're in that middle ground, what would you guys say if I start with you, Steven? Give me some pros and cons of uni. You can give me one of each. That would be great.

0:01:18.8  One of each, I'm restricted now. I think a pro is probably pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and experiencing a different, I suppose a completely different world and different life and different education as well. And you meet so many different people as well. I think that is a pro. I know some people might see it as a bit of a con about taking a bit of a risk. And then I think a con is probably the amount of admin needed in terms of thinking and organizing needed in terms of actually, how are you gonna make this experience, ten out of ten every single day? And I think to do that as someone with a disability, I think it sort of needs that whole thinking, where am I going go? What am I going to do? And I sort of experience that when you're sort of going out with friends and stuff, that you need to think, will there be a disabled toilet there? Is the venue accessible? Can I actually get there? So it's almost that extra layer. So I think that was my biggest con.

0:02:28.2 That's a very good point raised. And Mia, as we said, you are living and breathing it as we speak. So I'm sure your list of pros and cons are huge, but are you able to pick out a couple of highlights?

0:02:40.4 Yeah, sure. I think for me, the best thing about uni is something that you don't necessarily have to be at uni to achieve. But it's just is my experience that I was and that's just the independence that it gives you and the confidence in your ability to be independent. Because I've learned how to advocate for myself on my own, manage PAs. I have all this workload that I have to manage. I've learned how to cook, I have a place of myself, I'm still here, so those skills that are just life skills that I think everybody benefits from learning because of what it does. Personally for me, when you know that you can look after yourself and you know that you can direct people to look after yourself on your own and you do a good job at it, even when things go wrong, when you face problems like being told you can't go to lectures, then it's just such an empowering feeling for me anyway, and then cons. I would definitely agree, Steven, that there is a lot of admin before and it doesn't necessarily stop when you're at uni and there's a lot to consider the whole time and that can be quite tiring and overwhelming. But luckily for me, most of the admin has come from PA stuff and I use Ask Jules and they help me sort out, so at least that alleviates that a little bit.

0:04:12.4  Good. I mean, as somebody who didn't go to university myself, I'm disappointed in you both for not saying the parties, as the pro, because that's just the vision, I'm stereotyping now. But, yeah.

0:04:25.3 No, they're good too!

0:04:25.6 Okay, that's all we needed to know. Let's move on to obviously we want to talk about the transition now, moving out of uni, this is obviously something that's going to be going through your head soon, Mia, but Steven and myself, we've had different... We come from different aspects of this. So, Steven, when it came to you finishing uni, did you have a plan in place? What was going through your head at that stage?

0:05:02.8 Yeah, good. A Really good question. I think when I was at uni, I did a couple of internships. I took a year out as well and did a placement year, which was really encouraged at my university. I think that really helped because I sort of I had a small idea about what I wanted to do and what I enjoyed doing and what I didn't. And I think that's always really useful, I think, getting internships, getting that work experience whilst you're at university. And I mean, when I finished, I had an internship lined up, so I knew after I finished, I had eight weeks working in London and that sort of gave me a bit of a bit of a safety net in that sense. So for me, it wasn't a you've finished uni, what am I going to do with my life? It was a bit of a, well, I'm going to do this for eight weeks and then what am I going to do with my life? I did actually, when I was at my internship, I applied for a permanent job with them and I was able to get that. And I think there was two days when I was sort of like, officially out of a job in between the two because I was waiting to see if they were going to offer it to me or not, sort of thing. And I suppose it worked out quite well in that sense. But what I would say is I did apply for a lot of graduate jobs, which I didn't get. I really sort of pushed for them. I did a lot of applications.

0:06:28.9 And I was sort of going for the mainstream graduate jobs because I think I really wanted something that will sort of lead me onto greater things. So that's why I was sort of going for those graduate roles and that took quite a lot of resilience in terms of going to interviews. I can't even remember how many interviews or assessment centers I went to sort of taking that time out and sort of getting knocked back again and having to keep going and keep going and keep going. So in the end, it all all worked well. I mean I've got that permanent role and then I moved into the civil service and I've been in working in government for about all nearly seven years now and in lots of different roles and they've been very inclusive in terms of their approach and it's very rewarding there. But, but I would say it took a lot of applications, a lot of motivation to sort of get there and [0:07:19.9] ____ get out of uni and get onto a good footing.

0:07:23.9 Yeah, and I think a lot of people will relate to that as well. And I... Listening to your story there, even I can relate to that. And I didn't go to university because leaving college even I was in a similar position where I was like, "Well, what am I gonna do now?" And you fire out all these job applications and interviews and then there's only so many knock backs you can get where you're just like "What am I gonna do?" And obviously not everybody's as lucky to have or in a position to have internships lined up that could potentially lead to job roles, especially if you've spent a couple of years at uni and then it's almost like you're kind of forced to move back home and some people can maybe see that as a step backwards or they can get sort of stressed about that because job searching is hard.

0:08:18.4 From personal experience, when it came to sort of leaving college and doing job searching, I wasn't really getting anywhere. And similar to you, Steven, I went down the work experience route of, right, I need to get some experience on my CV, sort of under my belt and see where that goes. And I volunteered in various settings, sort of school office environments, trying to get some admin experience before I actually got my first paid admin role, which I then stayed at for over eight years. So yeah, I think we can agree here that maybe work experience is maybe a good route to go down. Mia, have you had any sort of work experience or internship experiences whilst you've been at uni?

0:09:03.8 Yes, I have. I did a remote internship with this professor at UCL a month ago and that was good because it was remote [laughter] and that meant that I didn't have all the logistical things of traveling and it also gave me insight into what a career in research might look like and I don't know if that's what I want to do. I have also found that through different societies you can get experiences of different things. So I'm doing a Psychology degree, but that wasn't always my plan. I nearly did an Art degree, I nearly did an English degree. Like I think what I missed in Psychology is the more creative side of things.

0:09:45.1 So I did some work experience at the theater and I was technical directing for a show, which basically meant I got to wear a blue hard hat and shout at people, which was good. And I would say, I was very apprehensive about it because I didn't want to be a hindrance, because I knew that the job might require like moving things or you are in small backstage spaces and I just didn't wanna get in the way. And then I said that to the directors at the theater and they were basically like, "Shhh it's fine, we'll help you out. It will be okay." And that was a really lovely thing to have. And yeah, I'm just about to hopefully this year going back, do some interning at the student radio to see what that's like. So we'll see what happens. [laughter]

0:10:34.2 Ross: I see. Oh, you'd be perfect for radio. As someone, I work in radio myself and just chatting to you now, you're very natural in chatting. So yeah, I'd say definitely give the radio a go.

0:10:48.3 Thank you.

0:10:50.0 And even when it comes to the work experience and employment in general, you have to think about more things than most people do. So when it comes to employment, we're not just thinking about, oh, getting any old job, we have to think about the access, we're talking toilets, we're talking parking, the height of your desk or door widths. There's so many things that maybe people don't think about. Was that an issue for you, Steven, when you first started getting into employment?

0:11:25.7  Yeah, I mean, I think because I was looking for sort of the bigger companies and bigger employers, sometimes it's a bit, not always, but sometimes it's a bit of a given that they are gonna have lots of those accessible facilities and, and all of that. So I think, I mean, I live just outside London, so I was sort of looking in London, around London sort of thing. And I think I'm quite fortunate in that position that I had access to quite a lot of sort of choices about where to apply. But then I remember sort of early in my career when I was potentially looking at smaller companies, that was definitely a barrier in terms of offices are really small, they don't have the equipment. And sometimes as well, I think perception as well can be an issue. So some employers think, "Oh, are they gonna," which is completely wrong, but are they gonna perform as well as others or will they need a lot of time off? Which doesn't come into the conversation, but employers definitely sometimes think about. I know, I think...

0:12:31.8 Which is a bit of that invisible barrier sometimes in lots of senses. So I didn't really have it fully in my job search, but I think it was always sort of in the background and I was always very clear when I was applying for jobs that I am disabled, I use a wheelchair, I will need X, Y, and Z. And I think there's always a bit of an assessment about how that employer deals with that and how will they open that conversation with you and you can sort of judge them as well about whether you want to work for them. So I think it's a bit of both ways as well.

0:13:06.8 Yeah, no I completely agree with that. And Mia, you were sort of nodding your head then are these all similar things that are going through your head as I know you've got another year of uni left to go, but I suppose that at some stage throughout this year, as you are busy and focusing on your current work, you have to kind of think ahead and start planning because you can't just let the time come and think, "Oh, I finish uni next week, what am I gonna do now?" You almost need to be setting those foundations now. Is that something you are in the process of doing or are you coping well with that?

0:13:39.8 It's something I'm thinking a lot about definitely. But I also relate to what you've been saying from an applying to uni point of view, 'cause I was really apprehensive about even putting on my UCAS applications about my disability because I didn't want people to make assumptions or to think that it might cause problems that they don't want to try and solve but I just did it in the end, and it seemed to work out okay. But I think also for me and you will probably relate, I don't know, but my disability has definitely had a massive impact on my work ethic, maybe to my detriment because I always feel like I've got something to prove even though I might not necessarily. I always want to kind of show up and try and obliterate any potential false perceptions people might have, which is a lot of pressure to put on yourself and not something that you need to do. But it's something that I do and I think, yeah, probably quite a few people might relate to that.

0:14:48.3 Yeah, I think you are have sort of hit the nail on the head there and I think a lot of people with disabilities in particular, I think we all feel sometimes that we wanna break down those negative stereotypes or almost prove to not just ourselves but society that we are, regardless of our disability, we have skills and we can contribute to a workplace environment. Steven, you, have you got any thoughts on that?

0:15:16.9 Yeah, just, just that I completely agree, I think there's definitely a correlation there because I think it's... When you'd say that you would sort of have that point about, I'm here, I'm gonna prove that I can do just as much as everyone else and sometimes that means going right to the other end of the scale, which isn't a bad thing, but sometimes it's almost about actually you can chill out, you can have this time off, you can have relaxation time as well. And I quite often have that sort of internal barrier about actually I know I've done my hours today, should I do a bit more? Should I send another email? Should I be a bit more present and all of that stuff and then sometimes it's fine just to actually think, do you know what I've done enough today, but that's taken me a long time to actually acknowledge when is enough. So I completely agree with you there Mia.

0:16:14.8 Yeah. And just to sort of summarize, with you both for anyone who is going through that transition of whether they're thinking of going to uni in the first place or whether they're transitioning from uni into employment, we all sort of come at this from different angles. So if I start with you Mia, for someone who's thinking of going to uni, because you've not obviously left yet, I'll save that question for Steven. What advice would you give to somebody who's toying with the idea of maybe going to university and having that higher education with a disability?

0:16:52.3 I think it's... Deciding whether to go to uni or not is a very important question to ask yourself and reflect on a lot, whether you have a disability or not, because it's definitely not necessarily the default option that people should take. Especially I think increasingly now, I think with the disability it's important to try and make your decision of going to uni almost independently of that in a sense of don't limit yourself to think I can't go to uni just because it might be a bit difficult because it will be difficult and there will definitely be actual things that you have to think about that everybody who goes to uni will have things that they have to think about and there are so many people that can show you that it's possible, which I think is what really helped me when I got in touch with SMA UK and I was suddenly talking to lots of people who'd been to uni and had amazing experiences and that was just so affirming.

0:17:51.5 So I think, yeah, my advice would be to make sure that you think about it and choose a course that you'll enjoy, and then a uni environment that you'll enjoy because you're not just studying a course. You've actually got to... If you are living there, you've got to live there in that town and with those people but don't write it off just because of all the extra things that we have to consider.

0:18:18.1 I like that. I like that a lot. And Steven, coming from your point of view, from the other side of university, finishing uni and going to start employment, what advice would you give to somebody of what path they should potentially take or things to think about?

0:18:36.7  A good question. I mean, I would say nothing is forever. I think sometimes the job market can be really scary, it can feel like you are sort of signing your life away. So I think one thing is, it takes a long time for everyone to sort of know what they like and what they don't like as well, and you need to have some bad jobs to know which ones... To know what the good jobs are as well. So it's a bit of that balancing act as well. I think try as much as possible to think about university and the job market without your disability coming into mind. And then after you've sort of decided what you want to do, obviously there's a limit to this, but after you've decided what you want to do, then think about actually how can I make this work for me and my disability as well. So I'd say sort of just go for it. Go for what you want to do with your life and your career and... Say when people are really resilient, they are really good organizers, sort of thing and I really think they can make anything work. So just go for it.

0:19:39.6 Fantastic. And from a third point of view, from myself, I just wanna say for anyone who's thinking that maybe university is not for me, just like I did, I personally did make that decision that I wanted to end, sort of coming out of education and go straight to employment again, that's another option that is just as valid. Don't feel pressured just because friends and family have gone down that route. You can still have a successful career and be passionate and contribute to a workplace and gain skills and progress within a company regardless of whether you take that higher education or not. Hopefully from our conversations today, the three different angles that we've come up from here, we can show you that whichever route you take, it has to work best for you and your life. And we are all on these different paths, but we're happy and we're in the position of where we want to be. So hopefully, we've proved that. So yeah. [laughter]

0:20:46.0 Guys, I think we've covered everything that we wanted to talk about today and I just wanna wish you both the best of luck, Mia with obviously coming to the end of your studies this year, best of luck with everything. I hope... Really hope that transition to employment works out well for you. And Steven yourself as well, I really hope employment continues to go from strength to strength. And yeah, just... I think we're all just... Keep up what we're doing and yeah, if anyone has any questions, watching today, feel free to get in touch with SMA UK and I'm sure we can signpost you. But thank you guys. We've come to the end of our episode. You've been fantastic guests. Is there anything you want to say before we end?

0:21:37.8 No, I don't think so.

0:21:38.8 Nothing from me either. Just thanks so much, Ross, for presenting. It's been really good.

0:21:43.6 Yeah, thank you.

0:21:45.1 Brilliant. I've really enjoyed it. I think we need to plan like a uni style party, just the three of us now.

0:21:51.2 Yeah. Sure.

0:21:55.4 Would be good. Well that is the end of this episode guys. Thank you for watching and we will see you very soon with another episode.

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0:22:03.7 You've been listening to the Living With SMA podcast. We hope you can join us again next time. But in the meantime, please don't forget to like and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. You can find out more on our website at smauk.org.uk.

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