The Levantini Podcast
The Levantini Podcast is a show about the ancient Near East with a focus on biblical archaeology, Judaism and Islam.
The Levantini Podcast
The Art of Hebrew Subtitling - A discussion with Zehavit Ehre of Golden Translations
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Welcome to the foreign c podcast. Foreign C.us is a language training website for Hebrew, Arabic, and Russian, designed specifically for intermediate to advanced learners. Our daily lessons prepare you to read real foreign language news articles and listen to actual foreign language media on a wide variety of subjects to put you on the path to language mastery. If you're studying Hebrew, Arabic, or Russian, you can visit our site at foreign c.us, that's F-O-R-E-I-G-N-C-Y.us and enter the promo code language mastery for a ten percent discount on our annual and six month subscriptions. In this podcast, I spoke with Zehavid Ere of Golden Translations. Zahavid is a professional Hebrew subtitler and has given lectures on the topic at Tel Aviv University. We found each other on Twitter, and after we've been following one another for some time, I decided to reach out and see if she'd be willing to talk about Hebrew subtitling and her career on our podcast. The more digging I did into the art of subtitling, the more fascinating I found it to be, and our discussion lived up to my expectations. We ended up covering a number of core challenges that exist in this field, and also talked about how she got into the industry and where the industry is going. I hope you enjoy the show. So thanks for being on the show. I'm here today with Zahavid Ere of Golden Translations. Thanks again for being on, and hope everything's going well there in Israel.
SPEAKER_01Hi.
SPEAKER_00So I want to give people some background on how we came into contact with one another. At some point, you and I followed each other on Twitter, and then I looked at your profile and started looking into what you do and found that you're a Hebrew subtitler by profession. And the more I started researching that, the more it interested me because obviously the stuff that we do on foreign sea with our language lessons is tied to translation and language fluency. And then I found what you did to be really interesting. And I would love if you could tell me a bit about how you got into the business and um why you love being a subtitler.
SPEAKER_01Yes, hi. Well, uh I studied linguistics. Now I have MA, but uh back then I only had uh my BA and translation diploma. And uh friend of a friend, you know how it is, they were looking for uh an editor, proofreader for a subtitling studio in Israel. And uh I started working there, and uh ever since I worked in the field. Mostly subtitlers, it's a niche. So uh when you start working with one uh subtitling studio, you usually work with others as well because it's uh it's a specialty, and we will probably talk about it now, specialty in the field of translation.
SPEAKER_00Right. And what's it like working in a niche field like that, especially in Israel?
SPEAKER_01I love it because uh personally I always loved uh TV, cinema, spoken language. As a linguist, uh spoken language, social linguistics always interested me. So translating videos, movies was a pleasure to me.
SPEAKER_00And what's the range of stuff that you work on? Is it just movies or is it all sorts of recordings?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh at first, I'm in the field, let's say like 14, 15 years. At first, it was, as I said, with the subtitling studios in Israel, which is actually TV, mostly TV, from series to feature films, everything that was on TV, various um channels, history channels, uh MGM, biography channels, all sorts of uh channels. But in the last uh, let's say uh five years, even more, I do also YouTube uh translation, which is more and more common. Not only TV, but also marketing videos, instruction videos, internal videos for companies, for workers, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00Do you have a favorite kind of project to work on?
SPEAKER_01You mean in subtitling? Um if you're talking about genres, I prefer, I mean, I like more the documentaries because I learn from it. And then also comedies and other stuff.
SPEAKER_00Right. And then difficulty-wise, what what sort of projects do you find the most difficult? What sort of genres do you find the most most difficult and what and what are the ones that you are able to do more easily?
SPEAKER_01The most difficult ones are uh the ones with the more slang slang. Because uh you really need to know what it is about. Uh not always you know exactly what the term means, and you have to search it up as opposed to narration or uh straightforward language, even medical or uh scientific, it's sometimes even more it's easier than translating slang.
SPEAKER_00Right. And then when I started researching you, I also found your YouTube page and the lectures you've given. So you've done work with Tel Aviv University and I think you've done some other lectures also. Right. But how did that get started?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it actually it started when I attended uh every year I I attend the Israel Annual Translators Association. Once a year we have the Israel Translators Association uh conference, and you know, it's you know people and you talk about what you do. And once a person uh asked me to give a lecture to English teachers that they had once a year, English teachers for baccalaure, I mean for high school, and they had like a conference once a year that they get lecturers talk about uh English learning issues. So I gave a lecture to them, and then it continued another lecture here and another there, and people hear about me. Eventually I got to teach at uh Tel Aviv University in the framework of the translation diploma they had in the course uh subtitled translation.
SPEAKER_00Okay, great. And then how's the interest been? From the videos that I saw, people look really engaged. I mean, is it a field that people are getting more and more interested in? Is it growing or is it not so much?
SPEAKER_01I had a feeling uh with my students, um many of them were uh they really loved it. I I think uh also it's uh personal because you know some translators prefer literature, some prefer uh other kinds of translation. But the ones who loved, I guess, like me, TV and cinema and spoken language, so they really loved it.
SPEAKER_00Great. So now I want to get into the technical discussion aspects of this conversation, such as the constraints or challenges in subtitling Hebrew or any other language for that matter. I know you get into this on your lectures, but the linguistic or cultural or or other challenges that come with translating or subtitling Hebrew.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Uh when I taught, when I teach uh my students, so I talk about three, let's say, three elements of three kinds of constraints. We have technical, linguistic, and cultural. Technical constraints that exist in subtitling and don't exist, let's say in other types of translation, are uh technical issues like the duration of the subtitle, the length of the lines, unspoken text.
SPEAKER_00What do you mean by unspoken text?
SPEAKER_01Sometimes you have signs, signs in the video that are pertinent to the plot, that later it's you know that it's important for you to know that in these signs it says no entrance and then something happens.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Or there is a English uh text saying uh two years later. So we have to translate these two as well. Also, we have simultaneous speaking when two people speak at the same time, so you have to put them in the at the same subtitle, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00So, what about like if you're trained if you're subtitling uh an English language movie and they're referring to miles or inches or things that aren't used in Israel or in Hebrew, how do you approach that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this one uh when I talk about the cultural uh constraints, yes, well definitely we must uh adjust it to the reader. So if the reader or the viewer of the subtitles is used to kilometers and not miles, we will definitely convert. Yes, kilometers, miles, uh also uh weight, pounds and and kilos, right? In terms of um linguistic constraints, we have to make the text shorter sometimes because we have we are limited in space and time. So sometimes I would prefer to use acronyms instead of full phrases. In Hebrew, you have some words that can be uh used as the shorter version, like mahu, what is you can say it uh in one word instead of two words, if you know. Let's say um verbs. Sometimes you know you can omit the pronoun when you say a halti, I ate, and you can say aid, but within the verb, the pronoun is already understood. So I'm looking for these possibilities to shorten the text, but still not losing the the meaning.
SPEAKER_00Right. Those ones that they seem pretty very reasonable and and very obvious. Are there any uh times you have to omit stuff that it's a hard judgment call to make?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sometimes uh it's uh it in the pragmatic omissions, like uh when I talk about exclamation or or address. Exclamation I mean by hey, hi, yo, stuff like that. Usually it's the person hears it, so it's not so important to translate it. So uh that would be something that I would omit if I have an issue of space, also uh address when you say Johnny, what's up? And people hear this the person says Johnny. So if I don't have space, I can omit the word Johnny, for example.
SPEAKER_00These are and also the the linguistic aspects of it. So in English, if somebody's in the movie saying, Hey, you know what I'm talking about, but in Hebrew, it wouldn't be a direct translation, correct? They would say a tamavin.
SPEAKER_01Yes, you can uh tamavinoti, yeah. That's a whole different issue about translating spoken language, as we all know, or in the field of translation, it's never a literal translation. If it's literal translation, it's not a translation. The purpose in translation, and I think it's very evident in subtitling, is that uh the reader hears the English but reads the Hebrew and he should read the Hebrew as if the the person in the movie was saying it. If it sounds not natural, it would uh it would come out. For example, when it's very uh you can really feel it when there is um we have to uh adjust the language, the register, to the speaker. So I give uh two opposite radical cases. One on the one side you have uh let's say uh someone from the slums from the hood, as opposed to a professor in a university. So me as a translator, I have to adjust my language to the speaker. So if it's not fitting, the reader will see that it's not natural.
SPEAKER_00I imagine when you're putting yourself in the shoes of a professor, say, you're using much more flowery literal Hebrew, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, much more uh correct Hebrew. Uh I uh we call it in linguistics uh sociolect. I adjust my sociolect of the text to the to the speaker. And yes, in uh if it's uh slang, like let's say bad slang, I don't know how you say it's not bad, but not uh clean language, right? I I see it more and more in subtitling, and it's okay, you know, that's what we would say if we were saying it. Uh so uh I do see some curses, and you can say bad language, but that's what the person says. So that's how we will translate it to Hebrew.
SPEAKER_00Is it hard for you to put yourself in the shoes of of an actor or even a character that you really can't relate with on a personal level at all? So if you're you know translating an action movie and you're a cop in his 20s working in LA, how do you put yourself in their in their shoes and find your voice?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. I mean, I just adjust myself to the his language. I don't I don't see myself as sympathizing or not sympathizing. I just, you know, in my mind I think if I was him, what would I say in Hebrew? Or how would would sound how would it sound in Hebrew?
SPEAKER_00Right. And it sort of dovetails into something else I wanted to talk about, which was translating slang.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and how that also is a linguistic difference where there are a lot of things that carry over from English to Hebrew, but there are also a lot of things that don't at all. So I could say one thing in English, but the Hebrew translation would seem super bizarre to somebody who's not familiar with it.
SPEAKER_01Of course. Uh many times uh we have to uh not it's not uh in many cases it's not literal translation. The parallel uh phrase in Hebrew is not word by word as the English one. For example, um sometimes people might uh uh do it literally, as I said. So for example, there was in in one movie there was uh I saw someone uh said, I would like to make a toast, and it was uh everyone around the table with a glass of wine, and it was translated as an Irotselachin toast, which means I want to make uh I want to prepare a toast. Yeah, a toast, I mean uh you know, bread with cheese. Okay put it in the toaster oven or toaster. So this is an example for bad translation, which is that's something you actually saw translate.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01That was uh an example that came up to me.
SPEAKER_00That must have made you cringe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was, it did. Um talking about that translating spoken language, uh it includes slang, but not only metaphors. When I'm talking about metaphors, so I teach in my course, there are a few strategies to translate metaphors. You can translate it from one metaphor, I will give examples, from one metaphor to another metaphor in the target language, or from the same metaphor to the same metaphor, or to neutralize the metaphor. For example, from one metaphor to another, when I say um two eas in a pod, in Hebrew you say zug yonim, which literally means two pigeons. So both are metaphors in each language, but they're not the same one. So there are many examples of that that we have in uh in translation. Another example would be you've made your bed, so lay in it. So we Hebrew we say to halita day sashabish, eat the porridge you cooked. So it's not uh semantically, it's not the same words, but it conveys the same message. The second uh strategy was from the same metaphor to the same metaphor. For example, let's say um kill two birds uh with one stone, we say la rogue makachachat, don't stick your nose, it's literally the same in Hebrew and in English, and many more like this. And the third strategy is sometimes from metaphor to a non-metaphor. For example, uh in a nutshell, you can say in Hebrew bikzara in short. So bikzara is not a metaphor. And of course, it's also a matter of style, because the same translation could be made, the same phrase could be translated differently if it's different translators. One can choose this strategy and another can choose another. Um, for example, you can say uh to translate passed away could be niftar, just died in Hebrew, which is from metaphor to non-metaphor, or could be halakhli o lamo, correct, which is uh the Hebrew metaphor for passed away. Piece of cake, you can translate it mischakiladin, which is the parallel metaphor in Hebrew, right? And you can say child game, and you can say kale kalut, which is easy. Right. Yeah, that's sort of uh one unique feature that exists in subtitling and usually doesn't exist in general translation in other types of translation is the use of sogrime.
SPEAKER_00Uh parentheses.
SPEAKER_01Parentheses, exactly. Uh we do use it when uh sometimes I want to convey a pun, a joke, or uh ambiguity, something that can be uh understood in more than one way, especially jokes or a pun, because you want to show the reader, and especially when it's in comedies, so you want to show the reader what what's funny about it in in English. So uh sometimes it could be um it could be the conductor, which means a conductor of an orchestra or conductor in the train. Uh sometimes it's well, it's uh not easy to show without showing uh part of the piece of a video, but uh my favorite piece of slang though was um in English if you want to you know say like are you dumb, but in Hebrew you would say like Bokutovelyahu.
SPEAKER_00Uh yes like or it's like how how do you not get this?
SPEAKER_01or it the Yeah, Bokutovaliyau is uh I think it the British parallel is Queen Anne is dead. So yeah, Queen Anne is dead, and in Hebrew we'd say Bokutovaliau, which means only now you you realize that.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And an example for uh use of parentheses is for example house of cards. So I could translate Mikdal Klafim, which is literally house of cards, and in parentheses we I can add matsav loyativ, unstable situation.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01So when the reader sees the parenthesis, he understands it's much more than literally a house of cards.
SPEAKER_00Right. And how do you approach one thing I noticed from watching Hebrew television shows or also just living there was that English slang and also just English in general is getting more and more integrated into spoken Hebrew. And when is it appropriate to translate that directly or to find the most appropriate Hebrew phrase?
SPEAKER_01Okay. So in this case, I think it's mostly a matter of style, personal style. I've noticed that some translators they tend to be more uh, they make it more Hebrew, they tend to choose more the Hebrew phrase, and some, maybe the younger ones, they tend to use to leave the English phrases as is. For example, Zelobic Dil. It's not a big deal, so some translators would say Zelobic Dil, and some would say it would translate to Zelo Inyan Gadol, really translate literally. I think I as an editor of translations of subtitling, I see in the last few years, I see more and more people tend to leave the English phrases as they are, and I think it is correct because this is what we would say. And for me, in my opinion, the best way to translate subtitling is to translate as if you were talking the text in the subtitles. Some translators have the tendency to make it a bit high in register in the social act. It sometimes looks strange to me.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01When it's uh too high and it's not um the speaker wouldn't say that if we if we speak Hebrew.
SPEAKER_00Right. So you're trying to translate for your audience. So you're not trying to say like, well, this is actually the most correct way to say this in the Hebrew language. You're trying to translate for the people who are going to be reading the subtitles and what makes the most sense to them. So for them to see Zelobig Dil, it's more natural, it flows better than trying to find the most appropriate technical Hebrew translation, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yes, or literal translation, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I want to go into um the technology you use. So if you can talk about just your process for translating, how do you get started? What sort of equipment do you use? And then if you could talk about how it's changed from when you started, also.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So I'll start historically. We can say when I started, like almost 15 years ago, I was still for a year or two only, and then it changed. But in the first year or two, I still came to the studios, subtitling studios, and took a VHS video. We still had those. And you also got this huge book, which is the script, was printed, and it it was like a big book. So you you would go with a big parcel at home and then uh sit in front of the VCR at your home with the computer, and then uh on the script you would mark with the pen when to cut the subtitling, and then you take the script next to your computer and start translating it. So it was quite cumbersome back in those days, and then uh quickly it turned into uh videos sent by internet, and the script was sent by email, so everything is easier, and you do everything by the computer. In the first few years, it was still translating to a word file, and then uh I mean cutting just word file, plain docs, and in the studios they would take convert your word file into a subtitling file and make the time coding in the studio. In my courses, I teach uh the students how to make timing as well, and to create a subtitling file. Just to clarify, a few years back, only the studios had uh subtitling softwares, which were very expensive. It would cost thousands of dollars, and only a few in the world would uh make those special uh programs, we would say. But in the last few years, as I guess you know, and many people know, many, maybe many don't know, but everyone can do subtitling today free. I teach my students how to make free subtitling files, which are uh time-coded that you can add to YouTube, for example. One of the formats is SRT files, if you know what I'm talking about. So today you have many online sites that you can just do it online and then get uh output of an SRT file. And also there are free softwares that you can download and uh do your subtitling. So I noticed that many of the studios they start working with subtitlers that can also do uh time coding. Right. So it's a benefit if you know how to do time coding as well. You also you get more money per minute translation because for the studios you save them uh the time coding time.
SPEAKER_00So with all the variety in like streaming video services in YouTube now, so like we have Amazon Prime, we have Netflix, we have Hulu, and then YouTube as well. It seems like it's probably a really good time in your field, correct? There's a lot of opportunities.
SPEAKER_01Yes, uh I can say that in the last couple of years, it is known that um Netflix has entered the market, you can say. Uh you can in Israel you can also uh subscribe to their content, so which means naturally more content to to translate. And I I feel within my community of subtitlers that uh there is more work in the field because of that. And it's nice, more work for us.
SPEAKER_00And for YouTube, I mean there's there's a ton of Hebrew subtitled YouTube clips. Even if the audio is in Hebrew, a lot of times people still want to have Hebrew subtitles for for the video. Do people just do that for free, or do they reach out to you or other subtitlers to provide Hebrew translations on YouTube?
SPEAKER_01Okay. Now you're talking about closed captioning, which is same language subtitling. So it is more in the field of accessibility. I can say I've done uh a seminar about it in my studies, it all started in the States, of course, a decade ago, when the accessibility standards for websites, for example, you know that today every website must meet the standards of accessibility, which among other things, says that if you have a video in your website, embedded video, YouTube video or whatever, you have to add subtitles or any alternate text. Like you can have the video and under it the text, but usually they do the subtitling. So that's a service I offer and my colleagues offer. So I I in Israel it's only it's quite fresh, only a few years. So I I feel it gradually growing, but not as as it is in the States. Right. And I feel that more and more people are looking for professionals to add close captions to their videos. But I don't think people do it themselves. I think because they don't really know it's it's so uh easy and free and available.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Do it yourself. But also as a service, if I provide this service or another person, it doesn't cost like it cost in the past when uh the big studios had to pay for big softwares for this. Today it's a matter of a few dollars per minute to do it. So people prefer to pay a professional then rather than learning to do it by themselves because it's uh it's not an easy task, you know. It's like how do you say in Hebrew, a vodatni malim, when it's like uh ants work. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Work of ants, yeah. So you've been doing this for so long that does it come naturally to you now when you start a new project, or do you have tips for staying sharp? Do you constantly watch movies? Think about the translations, or is it just something that flows out of you now?
SPEAKER_01I actually I constantly watch movies and series because I like it, regardless of the work I do. So, but yes, it does help me, I guess, that when you're constantly exposed to American language, British language, Australian, whatever, uh so you're it keeps you up to date. Also, by the way, if there is something I don't know in the script or the person says a phrase I'm not familiar with today, talking about free stuff, you have in the internet everything you if you search American slang dictionary, uh British slang dictionary, etc. The American slang dictionary, if you know urban dictionary, it's called. It's very, it's quite good. But uh you have to pay attention because it's the readers who insert the content. So sometimes you have to to make uh shikul dat, not just it's not Wikipedia or uh a formal website that you know that someone checked in. Sometimes they they are not so serious.
SPEAKER_00But even even with all the technological advances and that have made your job easier from what it once was, is it still strikes me that this is a pretty tough field to be in, correct?
SPEAKER_01You mean in what terms? Pretty tough field?
SPEAKER_00In terms of the amount of work that it takes to do it and then finding the opportunities and building enough of a of a name for yourself that you have available work.
SPEAKER_01I think it's in every field of any freelancer or any translator that you build your uh reputation in time. As I said, when you are a subtitler with one company, it's easier to get more jobs from another company because not every translator is a subtitler. Actually, many are not. You can do the other way. You can be a subtitler and a general translator, I would call it. But uh, general translators mostly they don't know all the constraints I was talking about and how to divide correctly, how to move to the next uh subtitle, how to translate uh correctly the slang, the spoken language. So usually when you are in the this field, you have a few opportunities.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Uh how to yeah.
SPEAKER_00I was just gonna ask what what advice do you give people that want to get into your field? How do you succeed in it?
SPEAKER_01I think uh it's like in any other field. You build your reputation, you you work for one company and then to another. As I said, in uh for every translator should market themselves. Like from a small website, today it's not uh big expenses necessarily. You have many even free options. Let's say Facebook business page, looking for work. I when I started way before 2000, even in the first years of the internet, I remember I put myself in every possible translation portal. You have like freelance portals, especially for translators. So when you put yourself online more and more, so you have more options to be referred to, to be approached. And then you you build your um clientele, you say, So when people come back to you. But it's something that every it refers to every translation field, not necessarily subtitling. Right. Uh the way you look for work, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I think I think you're right, it's a matter of building your brand. Also, even general uh freelance websites, you know, like uh Odesk or uh I don't remember or if you were to if for for these major companies now that are out there, video streaming services that that are offering Hebrew subtitles, when you work for them, do they do any sort of test or do you have uh what's the application period like?
SPEAKER_01Definitely. The mostly the let's say the American ones, they are more standardized. So you have uh it's a very clear process of accepting you. You have to go through a translation test, which includes includes a video piece and also includes um in Hebrew we say um, yeah, miphana mirikai, but it means uh multiple uh answers.
SPEAKER_00Uh multiple choice.
SPEAKER_01Multiple choice. We call it mifhana mirikai.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we need three answers, we need three options here.
SPEAKER_01So yes. So uh yes, uh definitely the new uh the new actors in the field, you can say, they demand uh standard uh tests and everything. And I can say that as an editor, in the past years I'm more an editor, quality control, less translation. I do the the editing part. I really feel it's it's a pleasure for me because they make this uh standard, people only good translators pass, only good subtitles pass the tests, and then as an editor, you get to proofread good quality work. So I hardly have much to do. Of course, there's always typos, even the best translators they make mistakes. Typos is is normal, it's natural, but not as I would uh I was encountering in the past for let's say niche channels that didn't require too much uh quality control. Yeah, exactly. So then I would find myself correcting and yeah. So it's nice to work uh with uh when there is uh standards.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, thanks again for taking the time to talk with me. You're on Twitter, you're on YouTube. You're I encourage everybody to visit your YouTube page. You post all your lectures on there.
SPEAKER_01Yes. In Twitter, I'm Hebrew subtitler in one word.
SPEAKER_00And YouTube is just your your name, uh Zahavit Ere.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And then your website is granslations.co.il.
SPEAKER_01Or.com. The same.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And my uh Facebook, I think it's the most active uh platform I use. The Facebook uh page is my golden translations page.
SPEAKER_00Okay, great. Well, thanks again for taking the time to talk with us. Um I wish you all the best in your career, and I'll definitely keep an eye out for your lectures and anything else you post on your website or on YouTube. It's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_01Thanks. It was my pleasure too.