{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":35.36,"endTime":39.53,"body":"There's a whole"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":35.36,"endTime":39.53,"body":"lot of things I want to tell you"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":39.53,"endTime":50.9,"body":"about. Adventures dangerous and"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":39.53,"endTime":50.9,"body":"queer.  Some you can guess and"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":50.9,"endTime":58.19,"body":"some I've only hinted at So"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":50.9,"endTime":58.19,"body":"please lend me your ear..."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":60.31999999999999,"endTime":62.69,"body":"Everyone has a"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":60.31999999999999,"endTime":62.69,"body":"relationship with gender. What's"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":62.69,"endTime":65.39,"body":"your story? Hello, and welcome"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":62.69,"endTime":65.39,"body":"to Gender Stories with your"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":65.39,"endTime":67.52,"body":"host, Dr. Alex Iantaffi."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":68.41999999999999,"endTime":70.46,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":68.41999999999999,"endTime":70.46,"body":"welcome to another episode of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":70.46,"endTime":74.36,"body":"gender stories. I know that we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":70.46,"endTime":74.36,"body":"say that I'm incredibly excited,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":74.36,"endTime":79.52,"body":"but I am because every guest on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":74.36,"endTime":79.52,"body":"the show is so special. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":79.52,"endTime":83.47999999999999,"body":"today I have the honor to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":79.52,"endTime":83.47999999999999,"body":"joined by Lily Zheng, who's an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":83.50999999999999,"endTime":88.03999999999999,"body":"author and also a sought after"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":83.50999999999999,"endTime":88.03999999999999,"body":"Diversity, Equity and Inclusion"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":88.03999999999999,"endTime":91.91,"body":"speaker, strategist, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":88.03999999999999,"endTime":91.91,"body":"organizational consultant who"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":91.91,"endTime":98.24,"body":"specializes in systemic change,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":91.91,"endTime":98.24,"body":"to turn positive dei intention"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":98.24,"endTime":102.56,"body":"that diversity, equity and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":98.24,"endTime":102.56,"body":"inclusion intentions into"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":102.56,"endTime":106.61,"body":"positive dei outcomes for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":102.56,"endTime":106.61,"body":"workplaces and everyone in them."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":107.14999999999999,"endTime":112.13,"body":"Lily is a dedicated changemaker,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":107.14999999999999,"endTime":112.13,"body":"an advocate named at Forbes DNI"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":112.16,"endTime":116.99,"body":"trailblazer and LinkedIn top"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":112.16,"endTime":116.99,"body":"voice in racial equity. Lily"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":116.99,"endTime":121.36999999999999,"body":"recognizes the flashy one time"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":116.99,"endTime":121.36999999999999,"body":"training sessions that work and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":121.36999999999999,"endTime":124.22,"body":"work with organizations"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":121.36999999999999,"endTime":124.22,"body":"dedicated to the time and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":124.22,"endTime":128.36,"body":"commitment that is needed to do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":124.22,"endTime":128.36,"body":"Diversity, Equity and Inclusion"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":128.36,"endTime":132.38,"body":"right to undo social inequality"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":128.36,"endTime":132.38,"body":"and injustice, and create"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":132.38,"endTime":135.44,"body":"organizational cultures that are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":132.38,"endTime":135.44,"body":"rich with collaboration,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":135.47,"endTime":139.45999999999998,"body":"respect, resilience and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":135.47,"endTime":139.45999999999998,"body":"innovation. Lilia has been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":139.45999999999998,"endTime":142.97,"body":"featured in and writes for media"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":139.45999999999998,"endTime":142.97,"body":"outlets, including the New York"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.97,"endTime":149.18,"body":"Times and PR, Harvard Business"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.97,"endTime":149.18,"body":"Review, and HR executive. They"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":149.18,"endTime":153.92000000000002,"body":"are the co author of gender and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":149.18,"endTime":153.92000000000002,"body":"ambiguity in the workplace. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":153.92000000000002,"endTime":158.14999999999998,"body":"second book, the ethical sell"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":153.92000000000002,"endTime":158.14999999999998,"body":"out their book dei"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":158.14999999999998,"endTime":161.6,"body":"deconstructed, which I think was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":158.14999999999998,"endTime":161.6,"body":"forthcoming when I was contacted"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":161.6,"endTime":164.99,"body":"by it's now out, I believe and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":161.6,"endTime":164.99,"body":"publish. It's been out for a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":164.99,"endTime":169.13,"body":"couple of months, I know really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":164.99,"endTime":169.13,"body":"excited, so dei deconstructed"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":169.16000000000003,"endTime":173.89999999999998,"body":"your no nonsense guide to doing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":169.16000000000003,"endTime":173.89999999999998,"body":"the work and doing it right. In"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":173.89999999999998,"endTime":177.14,"body":"this book clearly presents a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":173.89999999999998,"endTime":177.14,"body":"comprehensive set of solutions"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":177.14,"endTime":180.01999999999998,"body":"that hold organizations and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":177.14,"endTime":180.01999999999998,"body":"their leaders accountable,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":180.35000000000002,"endTime":184.10000000000002,"body":"laying out the path for anyone"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":180.35000000000002,"endTime":184.10000000000002,"body":"with any background to become a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":184.10000000000002,"endTime":189.01999999999998,"body":"more effective dei practitioner,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":184.10000000000002,"endTime":189.01999999999998,"body":"Ally and leader. DEI"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":189.01999999999998,"endTime":192.5,"body":"econstructed is being released"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":189.01999999999998,"endTime":192.5,"body":"last November from Berrett"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":192.5,"endTime":196.31,"body":"Koehler publishers. And then if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":192.5,"endTime":196.31,"body":"you want more information about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":196.31,"endTime":200.06,"body":"Lily, you can visit their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":196.31,"endTime":200.06,"body":"website, which is in the summary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":200.06,"endTime":203.36,"body":"of the apps. And also at the end"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":200.06,"endTime":203.36,"body":"of the episode, we'll talk more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":203.36,"endTime":206.77999999999997,"body":"about where you can find this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":203.36,"endTime":206.77999999999997,"body":"work. You can see why I'm so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":206.77999999999997,"endTime":210.01999999999998,"body":"excited. Lily, you've been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":206.77999999999997,"endTime":210.01999999999998,"body":"featured in so many outlets and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":210.01999999999998,"endTime":214.04000000000002,"body":"you do such amazing work. Thank"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":210.01999999999998,"endTime":214.04000000000002,"body":"you for coming, and being on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":214.04000000000002,"endTime":215.89999999999998,"body":"gender stories. I really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":214.04000000000002,"endTime":215.89999999999998,"body":"appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":216.23000000000002,"endTime":218.48000000000002,"body":"Yeah, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":216.23000000000002,"endTime":218.48000000000002,"body":"much for having me. I'm really"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":218.48000000000002,"endTime":220.27999999999997,"body":"looking forward to this"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":218.48000000000002,"endTime":220.27999999999997,"body":"conversation today."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":220.96999999999997,"endTime":224.51,"body":"Thank you. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":220.96999999999997,"endTime":224.51,"body":"let's just start with the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":224.54000000000002,"endTime":227.93,"body":"listeners who don't know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":224.54000000000002,"endTime":227.93,"body":"anything about the field of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":227.93,"endTime":231.64999999999998,"body":"diversity, equity and inclusion."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":227.93,"endTime":231.64999999999998,"body":"And I wonder if you can maybe"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":231.64999999999998,"endTime":235.94,"body":"give just a brief overview of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":231.64999999999998,"endTime":235.94,"body":"what that means for people who"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":235.94,"endTime":238.96999999999997,"body":"have never encountered kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":235.94,"endTime":238.96999999999997,"body":"dei work."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":239.99,"endTime":247.39999999999998,"body":"I would say dei work"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":239.99,"endTime":247.39999999999998,"body":"is a relatively young field that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":247.43,"endTime":253.39999999999998,"body":"tries to make organization so"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":247.43,"endTime":253.39999999999998,"body":"think about corporations,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":253.43,"endTime":259.07,"body":"universities, nonprofits, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":253.43,"endTime":259.07,"body":"name it into places that are"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":259.07,"endTime":262.31,"body":"more diverse, right, so they"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":259.07,"endTime":262.31,"body":"have more representation, they"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":262.31,"endTime":267.08,"body":"are there. They're better"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":262.31,"endTime":267.08,"body":"represented by women and people"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":267.08,"endTime":271.1,"body":"of color and disabled folks, and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":267.08,"endTime":271.1,"body":"queer and trans folks more"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":271.1,"endTime":274.25,"body":"inclusive, and that they're"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":271.1,"endTime":274.25,"body":"better respectful places to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":274.25,"endTime":277.94,"body":"work. People there feel that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":274.25,"endTime":277.94,"body":"they're treated fairly people"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":277.94,"endTime":282.46999999999997,"body":"feel a sense of belonging at"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":277.94,"endTime":282.46999999999997,"body":"work, and equitable in that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":282.5,"endTime":285.62,"body":"folks are being paid fairly"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":282.5,"endTime":285.62,"body":"folks are being treated fairly,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":285.62,"endTime":289.4,"body":"there's no discrimination, and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":285.62,"endTime":289.4,"body":"everyone can thrive in the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":289.4,"endTime":293.63,"body":"workplace. These three acronyms,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":289.4,"endTime":293.63,"body":"or rather the three letters in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":293.63,"endTime":299.06,"body":"the acronym Dei, and you may"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":293.63,"endTime":299.06,"body":"have seen many of the siblings"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":299.06,"endTime":304.79,"body":"to this this moniker, which is,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":299.06,"endTime":304.79,"body":"you know, deiba deij, right."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":304.79,"endTime":308.42,"body":"There's many other different"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":304.79,"endTime":308.42,"body":"acronyms but essentially, all of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":308.42,"endTime":312.41,"body":"it speaks to this ongoing work"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":308.42,"endTime":312.41,"body":"of making organizations into"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":312.41,"endTime":315.29,"body":"better places that work for more"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":312.41,"endTime":315.29,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":316.34000000000003,"endTime":319.73,"body":"And that is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":316.34000000000003,"endTime":319.73,"body":"wonderful, and I love our ideal"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":319.73,"endTime":323.51,"body":"that sounds. And I know that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":319.73,"endTime":323.51,"body":"there have been many critiques"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":323.54,"endTime":327.92,"body":"as well of the I work and I know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":323.54,"endTime":327.92,"body":"as somebody who used to be an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":327.92,"endTime":332.03000000000003,"body":"academic and employed by"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":327.92,"endTime":332.03000000000003,"body":"universities, I sat personally"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":332.03000000000003,"endTime":337.22,"body":"for many dei sessions. It were"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":332.03000000000003,"endTime":337.22,"body":"actually more traumatizing for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":337.22,"endTime":340.76,"body":"those of us who were aware of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":337.22,"endTime":340.76,"body":"minoritized identity somewhere"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":340.76,"endTime":344.18,"body":"in the room. And I know that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":340.76,"endTime":344.18,"body":"especially several folks of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":344.18,"endTime":347.54,"body":"color really criticized the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":344.18,"endTime":347.54,"body":"framework in I feel that in some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":347.54,"endTime":351.98,"body":"ways, you know, even the title"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":347.54,"endTime":351.98,"body":"of your book, DEI deconstructed"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":352.7,"endTime":357.56,"body":"in some way kind of addresses"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":352.7,"endTime":357.56,"body":"that to some degree. So can you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":357.56,"endTime":364.07,"body":"talk a little bit about how you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":357.56,"endTime":364.07,"body":"feel that DEI can work best and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":364.07,"endTime":369.11,"body":"really live up to the beautiful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":364.07,"endTime":369.11,"body":"vision, right of diversity,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":369.11,"endTime":372.59000000000003,"body":"equity and inclusion, we want"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":369.11,"endTime":372.59000000000003,"body":"the result we want the vision."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":372.89,"endTime":377.03000000000003,"body":"And yet sometimes it can feel"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":372.89,"endTime":377.03000000000003,"body":"like a DEI workshop is like a,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":377.39,"endTime":382.04,"body":"you know, a checkbox? And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":377.39,"endTime":382.04,"body":"employers like, oh, great, we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":382.04,"endTime":385.61,"body":"did the DEI training check."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":382.04,"endTime":385.61,"body":"We're good. And now we don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":385.61,"endTime":388.82,"body":"discriminate. And that's not how"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":385.61,"endTime":388.82,"body":"it works, right?"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":389.24,"endTime":392.54,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":389.24,"endTime":392.54,"body":"absolutely. So I'll go ahead and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":392.54,"endTime":396.17,"body":"start off by saying, I fully"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":392.54,"endTime":396.17,"body":"agree with that perspective. In"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":396.17,"endTime":403.58,"body":"fact, I am. I'm a frequent"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":396.17,"endTime":403.58,"body":"critic of the DEI space. And it"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":403.58,"endTime":407.24,"body":"sounds weird given that I'm an"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":403.58,"endTime":407.24,"body":"active practitioner, and I spend"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":407.24,"endTime":413.42,"body":"a lot of time doing this work."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":407.24,"endTime":413.42,"body":"And so many of the critiques of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":413.42,"endTime":419.36,"body":"the EI are absolutely correct,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":413.42,"endTime":419.36,"body":"in that a lot of dei work is"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":419.39,"endTime":424.61,"body":"more about intentions than it is"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":419.39,"endTime":424.61,"body":"about outcomes. It's more about"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":425.33,"endTime":430.01,"body":"what training can we deploy? Or"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":425.33,"endTime":430.01,"body":"what nice words can we say in a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":430.01,"endTime":434.03000000000003,"body":"speech and less about how can we"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":430.01,"endTime":434.03000000000003,"body":"actually ensure that we end"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":434.03000000000003,"endTime":438.05,"body":"discrimination that we create"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":434.03000000000003,"endTime":438.05,"body":"well being that we create these"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":438.05,"endTime":442.85,"body":"outcomes of diversity, equity"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":438.05,"endTime":442.85,"body":"and inclusion? Now, how do we"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":442.85,"endTime":446.15000000000003,"body":"actually get there now that the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":442.85,"endTime":446.15000000000003,"body":"very cheeky answer is like,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":446.15000000000003,"endTime":449.48,"body":"well, you should read the book."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":446.15000000000003,"endTime":449.48,"body":"But some of the ideas in the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":449.48,"endTime":454.94,"body":"book right, just to share more"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":449.48,"endTime":454.94,"body":"with listeners are that first,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":454.94,"endTime":458.33,"body":"we need to recognize that the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":454.94,"endTime":458.33,"body":"big failure of the DEI industry"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":458.33,"endTime":463.64,"body":"over the last few decades has"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":458.33,"endTime":463.64,"body":"been a failure to focus our work"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":463.64,"endTime":469.22,"body":"on outcomes. So very few folks"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":463.64,"endTime":469.22,"body":"in the DEI space, are able to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":469.22,"endTime":473.3,"body":"say this is the future we want"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":469.22,"endTime":473.3,"body":"to create and operationalize it,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":473.3,"endTime":476.66,"body":"they're not able to actually"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":473.3,"endTime":476.66,"body":"identify, you know, how much"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":476.66,"endTime":481.7,"body":"representation are we going for?"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":476.66,"endTime":481.7,"body":"How do we measure inclusion? How"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":481.7,"endTime":485.63,"body":"do we ensure that we create"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":481.7,"endTime":485.63,"body":"equity equity, how so for whom,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":485.63,"endTime":489.5,"body":"in what way beyond pay equity,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":485.63,"endTime":489.5,"body":"what other kinds of equity"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":489.5,"endTime":493.79,"body":"exist? And these foundational,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":489.5,"endTime":493.79,"body":"fundamental questions are"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":493.79,"endTime":497.03000000000003,"body":"needed, so that we can do the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":493.79,"endTime":497.03000000000003,"body":"very basic work of holding"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":497.03000000000003,"endTime":499.40000000000003,"body":"people accountable? Right,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":497.03000000000003,"endTime":499.40000000000003,"body":"something that we say a lot in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":499.40000000000003,"endTime":502.04,"body":"the corporate world is measure"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":499.40000000000003,"endTime":502.04,"body":"what matters, and nobody"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":502.04,"endTime":506.39,"body":"measures Dei. That's a problem,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":502.04,"endTime":506.39,"body":"right? Because that means no"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":506.39,"endTime":510.5,"body":"matter how much energy you put"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":506.39,"endTime":510.5,"body":"in, at best, you're only going"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":510.5,"endTime":514.0699999999999,"body":"to be able to say, well, I felt"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":510.5,"endTime":514.0699999999999,"body":"good about that training. I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":514.0699999999999,"endTime":517.0699999999999,"body":"don't care if you feel good"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":514.0699999999999,"endTime":517.0699999999999,"body":"about trainings, did they work?"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":517.46,"endTime":523.04,"body":"Right? Like, did they fix"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":517.46,"endTime":523.04,"body":"things. And the core argument"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":523.04,"endTime":525.14,"body":"that I want to make is we can't"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":523.04,"endTime":525.14,"body":"even start having that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":525.14,"endTime":529.43,"body":"conversation until we can align"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":525.14,"endTime":529.43,"body":"on what it is we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":529.43,"endTime":533.3,"body":"achieve, how we measure these"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":529.43,"endTime":533.3,"body":"things. And then also, the very"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":533.3,"endTime":537.02,"body":"common pitfalls that have made"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":533.3,"endTime":537.02,"body":"it so quite a lot of folks,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":537.02,"endTime":541.9399999999999,"body":"especially folks who are"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":537.02,"endTime":541.9399999999999,"body":"marginalized. Just don't trustee"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":541.9399999999999,"endTime":545.48,"body":"ei work right? We've all or many"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":541.9399999999999,"endTime":545.48,"body":"of us have sat through a dei"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":545.48,"endTime":549.7099999999999,"body":"training that at best, we felt"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":545.48,"endTime":549.7099999999999,"body":"like maybe is a c plus, right in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":549.7099999999999,"endTime":552.3499999999999,"body":"terms of quality. We've sat"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":549.7099999999999,"endTime":552.3499999999999,"body":"through trainings where people"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":552.3499999999999,"endTime":556.0999999999999,"body":"just read through long lists of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":552.3499999999999,"endTime":556.0999999999999,"body":"do's and don'ts and trainings"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":556.0999999999999,"endTime":558.5,"body":"where people seem like they're"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":556.0999999999999,"endTime":558.5,"body":"more interested in protecting"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":558.5,"endTime":561.14,"body":"the company against legal"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":558.5,"endTime":561.14,"body":"liability than actually fixing"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":561.14,"endTime":563.99,"body":"any real issues. We've sat"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":561.14,"endTime":563.99,"body":"through trainings where"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":564.5899999999999,"endTime":567.8,"body":"facilitators will bring up"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":564.5899999999999,"endTime":567.8,"body":"really hot button issues, but"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":567.8,"endTime":571.55,"body":"not do anything to facilitate"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":567.8,"endTime":571.55,"body":"the space, which, like you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":571.55,"endTime":575.42,"body":"mentioned, ends up oftentimes in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":571.55,"endTime":575.42,"body":"like real harm and real trauma"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":575.42,"endTime":579.3499999999999,"body":"and not anything close to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":575.42,"endTime":579.3499999999999,"body":"healing or reparation or, or"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":579.3499999999999,"endTime":585.29,"body":"improvement. So I think"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":579.3499999999999,"endTime":585.29,"body":"recognizing that the field time"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":585.29,"endTime":592.01,"body":"in the field of dei is just a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":585.29,"endTime":592.01,"body":"little bit messed up needs to be"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":592.01,"endTime":595.9399999999999,"body":"step one of getting anywhere"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":592.01,"endTime":595.9399999999999,"body":"from where we currently are"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":595.9399999999999,"endTime":600.68,"body":"right, like we we have to face"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":595.9399999999999,"endTime":600.68,"body":"the music, the trainings, the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":600.68,"endTime":603.89,"body":"one off talks, right, like this"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":600.68,"endTime":603.89,"body":"stuff isn't working. It's never"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":603.89,"endTime":609.17,"body":"worked. And we actually have a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":603.89,"endTime":609.17,"body":"lot of data and studies from the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":609.17,"endTime":612.92,"body":"last 30 and 40 years showing"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":609.17,"endTime":612.92,"body":"just how these things keep"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":612.92,"endTime":615.62,"body":"failing. Now, that hasn't"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":612.92,"endTime":615.62,"body":"stopped people from doing them"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":615.74,"endTime":619.88,"body":"over and over and over again."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":615.74,"endTime":619.88,"body":"But I want through this book and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":619.88,"endTime":624.77,"body":"my work, to put forward a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":619.88,"endTime":624.77,"body":"different way of doing Dei,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":624.77,"endTime":631.0999999999999,"body":"right, a way that's grounded in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":624.77,"endTime":631.0999999999999,"body":"data, a way that's accountable,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":631.13,"endTime":636.4399999999999,"body":"a way that's led by marginalized"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":631.13,"endTime":636.4399999999999,"body":"communities a way that rebuilds"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":636.4699999999999,"endTime":638.3599999999999,"body":"trust within companies and orgs"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":636.4699999999999,"endTime":638.3599999999999,"body":"in general, a way that leverages"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":638.93,"endTime":642.8299999999999,"body":"everybody inside of an org to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":638.93,"endTime":642.8299999999999,"body":"work together on creating these"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":642.8299999999999,"endTime":647.63,"body":"outcomes. Yeah, so I think"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":642.8299999999999,"endTime":647.63,"body":"that's, that's the first big"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":647.63,"endTime":651.3199999999999,"body":"thing, right? Like, recognize"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":647.63,"endTime":651.3199999999999,"body":"that things aren't great. And"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":651.3499999999999,"endTime":653.06,"body":"there is a way to do it right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":654.2299999999999,"endTime":657.1099999999999,"body":"That is really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":654.2299999999999,"endTime":657.1099999999999,"body":"wonderful. I love that. Could"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":657.1099999999999,"endTime":661.8199999999999,"body":"you share a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":657.1099999999999,"endTime":661.8199999999999,"body":"about what elements can improve"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":661.8499999999999,"endTime":665.3299999999999,"body":"kind of dei trainings? Right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":661.8499999999999,"endTime":665.3299999999999,"body":"You talked about data, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":665.3299999999999,"endTime":668.5999999999999,"body":"talked about outcome and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":665.3299999999999,"endTime":668.5999999999999,"body":"accountability. I love all of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":668.5999999999999,"endTime":671.99,"body":"that. And like you said, step"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":668.5999999999999,"endTime":671.99,"body":"one, this kind of recognizing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":671.99,"endTime":677.15,"body":"how, in many ways DEI has"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":671.99,"endTime":677.15,"body":"failed. And so how, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":677.18,"endTime":680.9,"body":"what is step two? You know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":677.18,"endTime":680.9,"body":"know, I want people to read the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":680.9,"endTime":682.52,"body":"book. So you don't have to give"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":680.9,"endTime":682.52,"body":"away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.55,"endTime":686.27,"body":"Oh, no. All of it away."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.55,"endTime":686.27,"body":"I'm giving it all away. So,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":686.4499999999999,"endTime":690.02,"body":"look. So if step one is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":686.4499999999999,"endTime":690.02,"body":"recognizing all the ways in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.02,"endTime":693.8299999999999,"body":"which the AI has failed, we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.02,"endTime":693.8299999999999,"body":"actually reverse engineer how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.8299999999999,"endTime":697.7299999999999,"body":"do it right, just from that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.8299999999999,"endTime":697.7299999999999,"body":"answer, right? So gosh, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":697.7299999999999,"endTime":700.6999999999999,"body":"are so many examples. I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":697.7299999999999,"endTime":700.6999999999999,"body":"name them all. But one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":700.7299999999999,"endTime":704.4499999999999,"body":"biggest examples of a dei"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":700.7299999999999,"endTime":704.4499999999999,"body":"initiative that failed was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.4499999999999,"endTime":708.29,"body":"actually undertaken by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.4499999999999,"endTime":708.29,"body":"Department of Defense in the US,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.3199999999999,"endTime":712.04,"body":"right, the US military,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.3199999999999,"endTime":712.04,"body":"essentially, in the 70s, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.0699999999999,"endTime":717.8,"body":"80s. And this was one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.0699999999999,"endTime":717.8,"body":"most expensive dei initiatives"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.8599999999999,"endTime":721.43,"body":"of all time, most people haven't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.8599999999999,"endTime":721.43,"body":"heard about it, which is wild,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":721.67,"endTime":726.14,"body":"because they trained nearly a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":721.67,"endTime":726.14,"body":"million practitioners, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.14,"endTime":730.28,"body":"train so many people to engage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.14,"endTime":730.28,"body":"in this work. They had an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":730.31,"endTime":734.81,"body":"institute, they funded hundreds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":730.31,"endTime":734.81,"body":"of hours of training for these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.81,"endTime":739.0999999999999,"body":"internal practitioners that were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.81,"endTime":739.0999999999999,"body":"going to go out into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.25,"endTime":743.2099999999999,"body":"military, and lead these sorts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.25,"endTime":743.2099999999999,"body":"of conversations about race,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.24,"endTime":746.15,"body":"these courageous conversations"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.24,"endTime":746.15,"body":"about difference and race and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":746.15,"endTime":751.37,"body":"inequality and all that. It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":746.15,"endTime":751.37,"body":"very ambitious, especially, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":751.37,"endTime":756.3199999999999,"body":"know, in the 80s. And it was one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":751.37,"endTime":756.3199999999999,"body":"of the biggest, most resounding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.3199999999999,"endTime":761.3299999999999,"body":"failures of all time in Dei."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.3199999999999,"endTime":761.3299999999999,"body":"Why, right? We just have to ask"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":761.3299999999999,"endTime":763.91,"body":"why. Right? Like, because most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":761.3299999999999,"endTime":763.91,"body":"people haven't heard about this."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.12,"endTime":767.5999999999999,"body":"It. You know, most people assume"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.12,"endTime":767.5999999999999,"body":"if you spend a bunch of money on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.5999999999999,"endTime":770.99,"body":"Dei, you train tons of people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.5999999999999,"endTime":770.99,"body":"it's rigorous. It's got to work,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.99,"endTime":774.92,"body":"right? So how come it failed?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.99,"endTime":774.92,"body":"Well, we can look at that one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":774.92,"endTime":779.0899999999999,"body":"example. And see just what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":774.92,"endTime":779.0899999999999,"body":"happened. One, the practitioners"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":779.0899999999999,"endTime":783.14,"body":"used techniques that blamed and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":779.0899999999999,"endTime":783.14,"body":"shamed their their participants,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.4699999999999,"endTime":788.18,"body":"they put typically white men in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.4699999999999,"endTime":788.18,"body":"hot seats and would grill them,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.39,"endTime":792.05,"body":"they would say, Joe, or James or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.39,"endTime":792.05,"body":"Michael or whatever, right? Like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.1099999999999,"endTime":796.52,"body":"you're a racist. Let's unpack"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.1099999999999,"endTime":796.52,"body":"everything you do that makes you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":796.52,"endTime":800.9599999999999,"body":"a racist. And the goal of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":796.52,"endTime":800.9599999999999,"body":"exercise was to get people to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.9599999999999,"endTime":805.5799999999999,"body":"confront their biases and become"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.9599999999999,"endTime":805.5799999999999,"body":"better people, and become more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.5799999999999,"endTime":808.6099999999999,"body":"self aware and grow and all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.5799999999999,"endTime":808.6099999999999,"body":"these lofty things. Now,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.6099999999999,"endTime":811.55,"body":"unfortunately, we know now, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":808.6099999999999,"endTime":811.55,"body":"happens if you put someone in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.55,"endTime":815.4499999999999,"body":"seat and call them names is they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.55,"endTime":815.4499999999999,"body":"do the exact opposite of all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.4499999999999,"endTime":818.42,"body":"that. There's backlash effects,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.4499999999999,"endTime":818.42,"body":"there's resentment, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":818.42,"endTime":821.6899999999999,"body":"frustration, there's anger. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":818.42,"endTime":821.6899999999999,"body":"they usually take that out not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":821.6899999999999,"endTime":824.7199999999999,"body":"only on the workshop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":821.6899999999999,"endTime":824.7199999999999,"body":"facilitators, but other members"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.7199999999999,"endTime":829.1899999999999,"body":"of marginalized communities. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.7199999999999,"endTime":829.1899999999999,"body":"so that was big problem. Number"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.1899999999999,"endTime":832.6099999999999,"body":"one, the fact that these sorts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.1899999999999,"endTime":832.6099999999999,"body":"of conversations exacerbated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.6099999999999,"endTime":836.3299999999999,"body":"tensions rather than reducing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.6099999999999,"endTime":836.3299999999999,"body":"them. And then problem two,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.8399999999999,"endTime":841.43,"body":"given these backlash effects, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.8399999999999,"endTime":841.43,"body":"turns out commanders within the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":841.43,"endTime":844.5799999999999,"body":"military started to feel like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":841.43,"endTime":844.5799999999999,"body":"they were losing control of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.5799999999999,"endTime":847.8199999999999,"body":"their workforces, that there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.5799999999999,"endTime":847.8199999999999,"body":"a lot of tension going on. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.8199999999999,"endTime":849.9799999999999,"body":"so they tried to take back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.8199999999999,"endTime":849.9799999999999,"body":"control from these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.9799999999999,"endTime":853.43,"body":"practitioners, and they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.9799999999999,"endTime":853.43,"body":"sidelined the DEI practitioners"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":853.43,"endTime":856.9399999999999,"body":"and made them advisors. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":853.43,"endTime":856.9399999999999,"body":"what ended up happening is, over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.9399999999999,"endTime":861.62,"body":"time, these trainings turned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.9399999999999,"endTime":861.62,"body":"into check checkbox activities,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.8299999999999,"endTime":866.15,"body":"bureaucratic hassles that people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.8299999999999,"endTime":866.15,"body":"had to do to fulfill some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.15,"endTime":869.39,"body":"requirement each year, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.15,"endTime":869.39,"body":"content gotten more and more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.39,"endTime":872.51,"body":"watered down, so that it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.39,"endTime":872.51,"body":"wouldn't offend people, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.5699999999999,"endTime":875.27,"body":"did avoid backlash effects, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.5699999999999,"endTime":875.27,"body":"it also avoided any helpful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.27,"endTime":881.03,"body":"effects. And the spirits of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.27,"endTime":881.03,"body":"trainings was fully diluted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.03,"endTime":884.24,"body":"the point where at some point, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.03,"endTime":884.24,"body":"believe in the 90s, the training"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.24,"endTime":887.7199999999999,"body":"was rolled into some broader"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.24,"endTime":887.7199999999999,"body":"sort of staff support training"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.7199999999999,"endTime":891.56,"body":"that to this day probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.7199999999999,"endTime":891.56,"body":"exists. And it was really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.56,"endTime":895.6999999999999,"body":"expensive. A lot of people were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.56,"endTime":895.6999999999999,"body":"trained, right, and it failed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.8199999999999,"endTime":900.1999999999999,"body":"resoundingly. Now, the reason"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.8199999999999,"endTime":900.1999999999999,"body":"why I bring this up, it's almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":900.1999999999999,"endTime":903.05,"body":"like you go into a corporation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":900.1999999999999,"endTime":903.05,"body":"right now and you see echoes of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.05,"endTime":906.41,"body":"those sorts of trainings. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.05,"endTime":906.41,"body":"see some practitioners, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.41,"endTime":910.6099999999999,"body":"know, not really understand that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.41,"endTime":910.6099999999999,"body":"it's not the best idea to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":910.6099999999999,"endTime":913.16,"body":"putting people in positions of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":910.6099999999999,"endTime":913.16,"body":"power into hot seats and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.16,"endTime":915.7099999999999,"body":"grilling them. I'm sure it feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.16,"endTime":915.7099999999999,"body":"good. I've done it once or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.7099999999999,"endTime":919.0999999999999,"body":"twice. It feels very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.7099999999999,"endTime":919.0999999999999,"body":"vindicating. Not great over the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.0999999999999,"endTime":924.41,"body":"long term. Oh, something also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.0999999999999,"endTime":924.41,"body":"about the military. They took"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":924.41,"endTime":928.52,"body":"specific efforts to avoid"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":924.41,"endTime":928.52,"body":"measuring the impact of their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.52,"endTime":932.87,"body":"training. They were forbidden"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.52,"endTime":932.87,"body":"from measuring the impact of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.87,"endTime":934.7299999999999,"body":"their training. There was this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.87,"endTime":934.7299999999999,"body":"specific directives don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.7299999999999,"endTime":938.9,"body":"measure this. I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.7299999999999,"endTime":938.9,"body":"people were thinking. But we see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.9,"endTime":941.0,"body":"a lot of that today. Also,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.9,"endTime":941.0,"body":"right? There's this sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.18,"endTime":944.12,"body":"naive expectation that whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.18,"endTime":944.12,"body":"or not the training works, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.12,"endTime":948.26,"body":"don't want to know, we just want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.12,"endTime":948.26,"body":"to fire and forget to just throw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.26,"endTime":951.17,"body":"this training out into the world"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.26,"endTime":951.17,"body":"and hope it does something. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.17,"endTime":954.56,"body":"overtime with the US military,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.17,"endTime":954.56,"body":"what we actually found, or what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":954.56,"endTime":958.4599999999999,"body":"researchers later found, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":954.56,"endTime":958.4599999999999,"body":"10, or 20 years after the fact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.49,"endTime":961.6099999999999,"body":"is that it increased disc"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.49,"endTime":961.6099999999999,"body":"discrimination and decreased"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.6099999999999,"endTime":966.5,"body":"representation, it literally had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.6099999999999,"endTime":966.5,"body":"the opposite desired effect. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.5,"endTime":968.81,"body":"we're still doing the same thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.5,"endTime":968.81,"body":"in companies today. Right? So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.81,"endTime":972.05,"body":"what are the takeaways? What can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.81,"endTime":972.05,"body":"we do that's opposite from that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.4399999999999,"endTime":976.9699999999999,"body":"One, we need to make people feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.4399999999999,"endTime":976.9699999999999,"body":"good about D is very basic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.0,"endTime":980.03,"body":"right? blame and shame doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.0,"endTime":980.03,"body":"work. When you try to blame"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.03,"endTime":983.27,"body":"people for inequality, when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.03,"endTime":983.27,"body":"try to shame people for having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.27,"endTime":987.14,"body":"certain privileges. Not only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.27,"endTime":987.14,"body":"does it make them not feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.14,"endTime":990.92,"body":"great, but more importantly, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.14,"endTime":990.92,"body":"doesn't actually change their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.92,"endTime":993.9499999999999,"body":"behavior. In fact, it can lead"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.92,"endTime":993.9499999999999,"body":"them to lash out in the exact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":993.9499999999999,"endTime":997.8199999999999,"body":"opposite way that you want,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":993.9499999999999,"endTime":997.8199999999999,"body":"which makes things worse for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.18,"endTime":1001.3299999999999,"body":"marginalized groups. Instead,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.18,"endTime":1001.3299999999999,"body":"right, we need to be approaching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.3299999999999,"endTime":1004.5999999999999,"body":"this from positive lens and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.3299999999999,"endTime":1004.5999999999999,"body":"giving people ways to engage in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.5999999999999,"endTime":1009.01,"body":"dei work, that helped them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.5999999999999,"endTime":1009.01,"body":"maintain a sense of dignity, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.01,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"to feel a sense of pride in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.01,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"their work. And, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.64,"endTime":1016.27,"body":"efforts. That's thing number"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.64,"endTime":1016.27,"body":"one, too, we need to measure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.27,"endTime":1018.6099999999999,"body":"what we're doing, we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.27,"endTime":1018.6099999999999,"body":"make sure that when we deploy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1018.6099999999999,"endTime":1022.54,"body":"interventions, that we can track"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1018.6099999999999,"endTime":1022.54,"body":"their outcomes, we know what it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.54,"endTime":1026.32,"body":"is they're trying to do, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.54,"endTime":1026.32,"body":"You know, you you've spent a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.32,"endTime":1031.69,"body":"of time in academia, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.32,"endTime":1031.69,"body":"academics are better at this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.72,"endTime":1036.3700000000001,"body":"than non academics, maybe not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.72,"endTime":1036.3700000000001,"body":"incredible. But in certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.3700000000001,"endTime":1041.35,"body":"fields, at least, there's more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.3700000000001,"endTime":1041.35,"body":"of a tradition of accountability"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.38,"endTime":1045.43,"body":"of experiments of not assuming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.38,"endTime":1045.43,"body":"that you're going to find what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1045.43,"endTime":1048.7,"body":"you're looking for. Right? We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1045.43,"endTime":1048.7,"body":"need that same sort of rigor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.7,"endTime":1051.55,"body":"with the AI work, we can't just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.7,"endTime":1051.55,"body":"throw interventions into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.55,"endTime":1054.13,"body":"void and expect that they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.55,"endTime":1054.13,"body":"going to work, we need to hold"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.13,"endTime":1057.73,"body":"ourselves and the people we work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.13,"endTime":1057.73,"body":"with accountable, right. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.73,"endTime":1061.45,"body":"finally, you can't do any of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.73,"endTime":1061.45,"body":"this work with a one and done it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.45,"endTime":1064.0,"body":"just doesn't work. There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.45,"endTime":1064.0,"body":"nothing you can do over 90"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.0,"endTime":1068.05,"body":"minutes that undoes the daily"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.0,"endTime":1068.05,"body":"sort of conditioning, broken"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.05,"endTime":1072.1599999999999,"body":"policies, processes and systems,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.05,"endTime":1072.1599999999999,"body":"right, deeply entrenched"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1072.1599999999999,"endTime":1075.3999999999999,"body":"corporate cultures, you don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1072.1599999999999,"endTime":1075.3999999999999,"body":"fix any of that in 60 minutes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.3999999999999,"endTime":1079.93,"body":"90 minutes or even two hours, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.3999999999999,"endTime":1079.93,"body":"has to be an ongoing effort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.93,"endTime":1083.1699999999998,"body":"that's fully accountable, that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.93,"endTime":1083.1699999999998,"body":"like I mentioned, is still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.1699999999998,"endTime":1086.98,"body":"positive and gives people a way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.1699999999998,"endTime":1086.98,"body":"to feel good. And all of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.98,"endTime":1090.58,"body":"needs to come together in an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.98,"endTime":1090.58,"body":"initiative that is well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.58,"endTime":1093.22,"body":"initiative, sorry, well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.58,"endTime":1093.22,"body":"resourced, that is well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1093.22,"endTime":1097.33,"body":"supported, and that everyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1093.22,"endTime":1097.33,"body":"understands its purpose for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.33,"endTime":1100.0,"body":"existence, right? Those are just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.33,"endTime":1100.0,"body":"some of the takeaways we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.0,"endTime":1103.12,"body":"learn from history because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.0,"endTime":1103.12,"body":"have a long history of folks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1103.12,"endTime":1106.03,"body":"doing it wrong, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1103.12,"endTime":1106.03,"body":"a rich source of learning,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.03,"endTime":1108.9099999999999,"body":"right? I firmly believe that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.03,"endTime":1108.9099999999999,"body":"history is is the greatest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.9099999999999,"endTime":1112.1499999999999,"body":"teacher, because even though"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.9099999999999,"endTime":1112.1499999999999,"body":"History doesn't repeat itself,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.1499999999999,"endTime":1117.61,"body":"per se, it usually rhymes. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.1499999999999,"endTime":1117.61,"body":"we know from what we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.61,"endTime":1120.97,"body":"right now that a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.61,"endTime":1120.97,"body":"problems are ones that have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.97,"endTime":1121.84,"body":"addressed before."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1123.1299999999999,"endTime":1125.6499999999999,"body":"Absolutely, thank"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1123.1299999999999,"endTime":1125.6499999999999,"body":"you so much for that, that was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1125.6499999999999,"endTime":1129.1299999999999,"body":"so informative, especially as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1125.6499999999999,"endTime":1129.1299999999999,"body":"somebody as an academic who has"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1129.1299999999999,"endTime":1133.03,"body":"sat through a lot of those tick"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1129.1299999999999,"endTime":1133.03,"body":"boxes. Exercise, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1133.03,"endTime":1137.74,"body":"that sounds so much better, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1133.03,"endTime":1137.74,"body":"can imagine how much deeper and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1137.74,"endTime":1141.34,"body":"more meaningful the work would"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1137.74,"endTime":1141.34,"body":"be also, if it's ongoing, if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1141.34,"endTime":1145.1499999999999,"body":"there is accountability, if it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1141.34,"endTime":1145.1499999999999,"body":"outcome focused, like you said,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1145.1499999999999,"endTime":1149.1699999999998,"body":"and, and you mentioned, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1145.1499999999999,"endTime":1149.1699999999998,"body":"know, cisgender, heterosexual"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1149.2,"endTime":1152.44,"body":"white man at one point, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1149.2,"endTime":1152.44,"body":"know, being put in the hot seat"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1152.44,"endTime":1156.37,"body":"and being shamed and, and in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1152.44,"endTime":1156.37,"body":"way, for better or for worse,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1156.61,"endTime":1161.05,"body":"corporations. And definitely"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1156.61,"endTime":1161.05,"body":"academia is still full of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1161.05,"endTime":1164.74,"body":"cisgender heterosexual white"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1161.05,"endTime":1164.74,"body":"men. And so how can this work?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1165.6399999999999,"endTime":1170.5,"body":"kind of help? Those folks who,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1165.6399999999999,"endTime":1170.5,"body":"in some ways are at the pinnacle"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1170.5,"endTime":1175.27,"body":"of privilege to leverage their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1170.5,"endTime":1175.27,"body":"privilege and power for change?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1175.48,"endTime":1178.87,"body":"Are there specific strategies"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1175.48,"endTime":1178.87,"body":"that work better than others to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1178.87,"endTime":1182.68,"body":"kind of engage? Why cisgender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1178.87,"endTime":1182.68,"body":"men because in some way, there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1182.68,"endTime":1189.04,"body":"almost like this defensiveness"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1182.68,"endTime":1189.04,"body":"or kind of rejection of di work"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1189.04,"endTime":1193.6599999999999,"body":"straight away. From some, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1189.04,"endTime":1193.6599999999999,"body":"know, of course, not all, no"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1193.72,"endTime":1197.32,"body":"solution or category is a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1193.72,"endTime":1197.32,"body":"monolith. But are there ways"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1197.32,"endTime":1203.71,"body":"that work better to kind of kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1197.32,"endTime":1203.71,"body":"of bring in those cis white men"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1203.74,"endTime":1207.31,"body":"and help them leverage their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1203.74,"endTime":1207.31,"body":"power for good for one of a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1207.31,"endTime":1207.94,"body":"better word?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.24,"endTime":1213.07,"body":"Yeah. So the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.24,"endTime":1213.07,"body":"thing I would recommend is, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1213.07,"endTime":1216.52,"body":"need to make sure that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1213.07,"endTime":1216.52,"body":"understand the problem in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1216.52,"endTime":1220.93,"body":"same way that you do. Because if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1216.52,"endTime":1220.93,"body":"they don't perceive that there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.93,"endTime":1225.1299999999999,"body":"is a problem, and you do this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.93,"endTime":1225.1299999999999,"body":"conversation of well, how do we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1225.1299999999999,"endTime":1228.94,"body":"engage you to problem solve is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1225.1299999999999,"endTime":1228.94,"body":"already lost before you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1228.94,"endTime":1232.27,"body":"started, right? And this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1228.94,"endTime":1232.27,"body":"often one of the big challenges."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1233.11,"endTime":1235.93,"body":"You can We talk with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1233.11,"endTime":1235.93,"body":"very well intentioned leaders"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.93,"endTime":1238.33,"body":"who will say there are no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.93,"endTime":1238.33,"body":"problems in this company stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.33,"endTime":1242.2,"body":"trying to make problems where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.33,"endTime":1242.2,"body":"there are none or our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.2,"endTime":1245.3799999999999,"body":"institution is a great place of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.2,"endTime":1245.3799999999999,"body":"learning and inclusion. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.3799999999999,"endTime":1248.32,"body":"everything I've seen has been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.3799999999999,"endTime":1248.32,"body":"really positive. So I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.32,"endTime":1251.3799999999999,"body":"believe that I need to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.32,"endTime":1251.3799999999999,"body":"anything extra, I'm already, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.3799999999999,"endTime":1255.31,"body":"know, doing my best. And so you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.3799999999999,"endTime":1255.31,"body":"need to start with building that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.31,"endTime":1258.04,"body":"same sort of shared"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.31,"endTime":1258.04,"body":"understanding, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.6399999999999,"endTime":1262.1499999999999,"body":"Essentially, you need to make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.6399999999999,"endTime":1262.1499999999999,"body":"sure that their perception of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.1499999999999,"endTime":1266.05,"body":"reality aligns with yours. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.1499999999999,"endTime":1266.05,"body":"there are lots of ways you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.05,"endTime":1269.2,"body":"do that the sort of traditional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.05,"endTime":1269.2,"body":"sense is to share stories about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1269.2,"endTime":1272.29,"body":"your experiences to help them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1269.2,"endTime":1272.29,"body":"build empathy, that's been done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.29,"endTime":1275.05,"body":"forever, that will continue to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.29,"endTime":1275.05,"body":"be done forever, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.23,"endTime":1279.25,"body":"ineffective. And there are other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.23,"endTime":1279.25,"body":"ways to go about it as well. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.25,"endTime":1283.51,"body":"personally prefer data and and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.25,"endTime":1283.51,"body":"gathering both quantitative and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1283.51,"endTime":1287.71,"body":"qualitative data, and breaking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1283.51,"endTime":1287.71,"body":"that down by race, gender,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1287.71,"endTime":1292.06,"body":"demographics in general."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1287.71,"endTime":1292.06,"body":"Usually, for corporations, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.06,"endTime":1296.4099999999999,"body":"will look at race, gender,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.06,"endTime":1296.4099999999999,"body":"abilities, sexuality, religion,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.4099999999999,"endTime":1302.4099999999999,"body":"and then also factors like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.4099999999999,"endTime":1302.4099999999999,"body":"tenure, department, seniority,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.4099999999999,"endTime":1307.48,"body":"and so on and so forth, and say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.4099999999999,"endTime":1307.48,"body":"Where are their inequalities in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.48,"endTime":1311.1699999999998,"body":"this organization? Right, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.48,"endTime":1311.1699999999998,"body":"where are things not working?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.1699999999998,"endTime":1316.33,"body":"Where do people have a disparate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.1699999999998,"endTime":1316.33,"body":"experience, and the data, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.33,"endTime":1320.1699999999998,"body":"quant data shows us exactly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.33,"endTime":1320.1699999999998,"body":"what's happening. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.1699999999998,"endTime":1325.27,"body":"qualitative data illustrates"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.1699999999998,"endTime":1325.27,"body":"those patterns with stories. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1325.33,"endTime":1328.03,"body":"maybe we'll see in the quant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1325.33,"endTime":1328.03,"body":"data that there's a belonging"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.03,"endTime":1333.28,"body":"gap between queer and trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.03,"endTime":1333.28,"body":"employees, and cisgender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.28,"endTime":1337.12,"body":"heterosexual employees in that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.28,"endTime":1337.12,"body":"let's say 95% of cisgender."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.12,"endTime":1340.24,"body":"Heterosexual employees feel like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.12,"endTime":1340.24,"body":"they belong at the institution,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.6299999999999,"endTime":1344.08,"body":"while only 45% of queer and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.6299999999999,"endTime":1344.08,"body":"trans employees feel that same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.08,"endTime":1347.32,"body":"level of belonging. And let's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.08,"endTime":1347.32,"body":"say you even have the data to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.32,"endTime":1352.36,"body":"localize it to let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.32,"endTime":1352.36,"body":"a university setting to localize"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1352.36,"endTime":1359.1399999999999,"body":"it within Undergraduate Student"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1352.36,"endTime":1359.1399999999999,"body":"Affairs staff, right, maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.1399999999999,"endTime":1363.8799999999999,"body":"that's where the problem is most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.1399999999999,"endTime":1363.8799999999999,"body":"exacerbated. So Well, now you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.8799999999999,"endTime":1367.3899999999999,"body":"have a really compelling story."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.8799999999999,"endTime":1367.3899999999999,"body":"And if you have good qualitative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.3899999999999,"endTime":1370.0,"body":"data, you can dive into those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.3899999999999,"endTime":1370.0,"body":"experiences, maybe there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.0,"endTime":1373.18,"body":"story from like a Queer Student"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.0,"endTime":1373.18,"body":"Affairs staff member that talks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.18,"endTime":1377.77,"body":"about being discriminated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.18,"endTime":1377.77,"body":"against or harmful jokes, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1377.77,"endTime":1380.9199999999998,"body":"policies that aren't working,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1377.77,"endTime":1380.9199999999998,"body":"you use all of these things to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1380.9199999999998,"endTime":1384.1299999999999,"body":"say, well, this is what we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1380.9199999999998,"endTime":1384.1299999999999,"body":"working with. You can't really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.1599999999999,"endTime":1386.83,"body":"argue with this. Because you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.1599999999999,"endTime":1386.83,"body":"see, there's so much data in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.83,"endTime":1391.36,"body":"aggregate that's showing these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.83,"endTime":1391.36,"body":"very clear themes. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.36,"endTime":1395.11,"body":"doesn't tell you exactly how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.36,"endTime":1395.11,"body":"solve it. But that tells you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.11,"endTime":1397.72,"body":"what it is you're working with."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.11,"endTime":1397.72,"body":"Now, leaders don't get the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.72,"endTime":1401.08,"body":"excuse of, well, there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.72,"endTime":1401.08,"body":"going wrong, because you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.08,"endTime":1404.1399999999999,"body":"this shared reality. Once you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.08,"endTime":1404.1399999999999,"body":"start from there, it's actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.1399999999999,"endTime":1407.1699999999998,"body":"relatively easy, because then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.1399999999999,"endTime":1407.1699999999998,"body":"you just give leaders a way to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.1699999999998,"endTime":1411.1,"body":"feel good about fixing it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.1699999999998,"endTime":1411.1,"body":"that's, that's the part that a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.1,"endTime":1414.97,"body":"lot of folks get stuck on. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.1,"endTime":1414.97,"body":"think oftentimes we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1415.0,"endTime":1418.6599999999999,"body":"conceptualize of cisgender,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1415.0,"endTime":1418.6599999999999,"body":"heterosexual white men or, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.6599999999999,"endTime":1422.77,"body":"know, privileged groups in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.6599999999999,"endTime":1422.77,"body":"general, as being the target of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1422.8,"endTime":1425.6499999999999,"body":"our initiatives, rather than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1422.8,"endTime":1425.6499999999999,"body":"being the drivers of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.6499999999999,"endTime":1429.1,"body":"initiatives. And that breeds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.6499999999999,"endTime":1429.1,"body":"resentment, right? Like if Alex,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1429.1599999999999,"endTime":1433.06,"body":"I said, I'm here to fix you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1429.1599999999999,"endTime":1433.06,"body":"you're the problem, you're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.06,"endTime":1435.7,"body":"going to take it well, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.06,"endTime":1435.7,"body":"Even if the data shows that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1435.7,"endTime":1438.76,"body":"people like you are the problem,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1435.7,"endTime":1438.76,"body":"right? Like, it doesn't go over?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.76,"endTime":1442.51,"body":"Well, instead of we say, Wow,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.76,"endTime":1442.51,"body":"this is a real challenge. As a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.51,"endTime":1446.9199999999998,"body":"member of this group, I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.51,"endTime":1446.9199999999998,"body":"want to work with you to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1446.9199999999998,"endTime":1450.04,"body":"what we can do to make this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1446.9199999999998,"endTime":1450.04,"body":"experience better for everyone."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1450.61,"endTime":1453.94,"body":"Right, I want you to take the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1450.61,"endTime":1453.94,"body":"lead, I want you to get the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.94,"endTime":1457.12,"body":"credit, right, like, let's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.94,"endTime":1457.12,"body":"let's make everyone feel good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1457.12,"endTime":1460.51,"body":"about making these things feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1457.12,"endTime":1460.51,"body":"better. I want you to help drive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.51,"endTime":1465.31,"body":"it, let's do this together, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.51,"endTime":1465.31,"body":"build on all of the things that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.31,"endTime":1469.09,"body":"you know, all the things that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.31,"endTime":1469.09,"body":"know to fix these problems, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.09,"endTime":1473.9199999999998,"body":"framing is very different,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.09,"endTime":1473.9199999999998,"body":"because it gives people away to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.31,"endTime":1478.03,"body":"now, immediately after seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.31,"endTime":1478.03,"body":"data that is that is not great,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.03,"endTime":1481.09,"body":"right? Like you feel bad, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.03,"endTime":1481.09,"body":"feel a sense of loss, you feel,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.12,"endTime":1484.3,"body":"you know, a threat to your sense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.12,"endTime":1484.3,"body":"of self. So you immediately"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.3,"endTime":1487.1499999999999,"body":"follow that up with something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.3,"endTime":1487.1499999999999,"body":"positive, you say, like, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.1499999999999,"endTime":1490.81,"body":"something really good. Let me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.1499999999999,"endTime":1490.81,"body":"give you an opportunity to like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.84,"endTime":1494.32,"body":"help lead the change, so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.84,"endTime":1494.32,"body":"that threat is immediately"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.32,"endTime":1497.83,"body":"replaced with this sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.32,"endTime":1497.83,"body":"pride. I can fix things, I can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1497.83,"endTime":1501.22,"body":"make it better. I can work on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1497.83,"endTime":1501.22,"body":"behalf of my org to make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.22,"endTime":1504.3999999999999,"body":"everyone have a good experience."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.22,"endTime":1504.3999999999999,"body":"Right? Just just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1504.3999999999999,"endTime":1507.3999999999999,"body":"psychologically, right? Like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1504.3999999999999,"endTime":1507.3999999999999,"body":"that makes such a huge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.3999999999999,"endTime":1509.8899999999999,"body":"difference and getting people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.3999999999999,"endTime":1509.8899999999999,"body":"engaged and getting people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.8899999999999,"endTime":1513.3999999999999,"body":"involved. And I don't see too"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.8899999999999,"endTime":1513.3999999999999,"body":"many people doing it, right. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1513.3999999999999,"endTime":1517.93,"body":"this positivistic approach to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1513.3999999999999,"endTime":1517.93,"body":"the work isn't just you know, me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1517.93,"endTime":1521.59,"body":"being soft on white men. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1517.93,"endTime":1521.59,"body":"It's me, you know, relying on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.59,"endTime":1525.28,"body":"all the research we have about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.59,"endTime":1525.28,"body":"what motivates behavior change,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1525.6399999999999,"endTime":1529.45,"body":"which overwhelmingly, right is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1525.6399999999999,"endTime":1529.45,"body":"treating people like adults and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1529.45,"endTime":1532.33,"body":"making people feel good about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1529.45,"endTime":1532.33,"body":"engaging in what you want them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.33,"endTime":1534.3999999999999,"body":"to engage in. It's very simple."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.33,"endTime":1534.3999999999999,"body":"Well, actually,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1535.18,"endTime":1537.85,"body":"Oh, absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1535.18,"endTime":1537.85,"body":"as you were talking, I was, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1537.85,"endTime":1541.21,"body":"know, as a trauma therapist, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1537.85,"endTime":1541.21,"body":"was like, Oh, it makes complete"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1541.21,"endTime":1544.69,"body":"sense, you want to be in that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1541.21,"endTime":1544.69,"body":"place, you know, if we buy into"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1544.69,"endTime":1548.56,"body":"Steven Porges theories of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1544.69,"endTime":1548.56,"body":"ventral vagal connection, where"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1548.56,"endTime":1551.6499999999999,"body":"we feel safe and connected to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1548.56,"endTime":1551.6499999999999,"body":"other humans, because shame"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.6499999999999,"endTime":1553.81,"body":"when I haven't thought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.6499999999999,"endTime":1553.81,"body":"about that since college"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.43,"endTime":1556.12,"body":"connections,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1556.1499999999999,"endTime":1558.07,"body":"right? Like, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1556.1499999999999,"endTime":1558.07,"body":"mean, it sounds to me, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1558.07,"endTime":1561.9099999999999,"body":"that's what you're describing,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1558.07,"endTime":1561.9099999999999,"body":"bring people into that place of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1561.9099999999999,"endTime":1565.09,"body":"like, where, you know, we're in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1561.9099999999999,"endTime":1565.09,"body":"this together, and we're going"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1565.09,"endTime":1567.94,"body":"to solve this problem. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1565.09,"endTime":1567.94,"body":"rather than putting them in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1567.94,"endTime":1571.54,"body":"hot seat and shaming them, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1567.94,"endTime":1571.54,"body":"makes people hide our shutdown,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1571.54,"endTime":1574.45,"body":"you know, then you get the fight"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1571.54,"endTime":1574.45,"body":"flight or freeze or fun, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1574.6299999999999,"endTime":1577.21,"body":"People are gonna fight you,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1574.6299999999999,"endTime":1577.21,"body":"they're gonna check out and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1577.21,"endTime":1581.1399999999999,"body":"dissociate and just be there in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1577.21,"endTime":1581.1399999999999,"body":"body but not in mind. Or, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1581.1399999999999,"endTime":1586.1499999999999,"body":"know, or they're gonna kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1581.1399999999999,"endTime":1586.1499999999999,"body":"fawn over the minority."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1586.1499999999999,"endTime":1588.52,"body":"So they say all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1586.1499999999999,"endTime":1588.52,"body":"right things, right, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.52,"endTime":1591.58,"body":"they don't want to be attacked."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.52,"endTime":1591.58,"body":"Right, but they don't actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.58,"endTime":1594.61,"body":"do anything that could get them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.58,"endTime":1594.61,"body":"any attention. They don't put in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1594.61,"endTime":1597.22,"body":"any real effort. That's really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1594.61,"endTime":1597.22,"body":"that's really,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1597.3999999999999,"endTime":1600.52,"body":"yeah. So I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1597.3999999999999,"endTime":1600.52,"body":"what you just described, it is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1600.52,"endTime":1605.05,"body":"very different than kind of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1600.52,"endTime":1605.05,"body":"approaches that I've seen that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1605.05,"endTime":1609.46,"body":"kind of applied in the past. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1605.05,"endTime":1609.46,"body":"noticed also that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1609.46,"endTime":1612.55,"body":"before when you were talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1609.46,"endTime":1612.55,"body":"about the Department of Defense"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1612.58,"endTime":1616.6,"body":"issue, you know, you said how,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1612.58,"endTime":1616.6,"body":"when DEI is not done correctly,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1616.6,"endTime":1620.4099999999999,"body":"it can actually exacerbate"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1616.6,"endTime":1620.4099999999999,"body":"division, it can create more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1620.4099999999999,"endTime":1625.51,"body":"problems, more division, more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1620.4099999999999,"endTime":1625.51,"body":"tensions. And so how can we talk"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1625.51,"endTime":1629.23,"body":"about our positionality our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1625.51,"endTime":1629.23,"body":"social identities, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1629.23,"endTime":1633.55,"body":"like the way we're racialized,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1629.23,"endTime":1633.55,"body":"gendered, plast, sexuality"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1633.55,"endTime":1636.94,"body":"abilities, citizenship, all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1633.55,"endTime":1636.94,"body":"those things that you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1636.94,"endTime":1640.93,"body":"as well, in a way that is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1636.94,"endTime":1640.93,"body":"authentic, that is connected?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1640.93,"endTime":1644.8899999999999,"body":"And it's not just performative?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1640.93,"endTime":1644.8899999999999,"body":"Right? Because, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1644.8899999999999,"endTime":1647.6499999999999,"body":"assuming that the outcome we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1644.8899999999999,"endTime":1647.6499999999999,"body":"want is not performative."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1647.6499999999999,"endTime":1652.06,"body":"Allyship that can we want is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1647.6499999999999,"endTime":1652.06,"body":"true equity and inclusion. So,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1652.33,"endTime":1655.81,"body":"yeah, how can we talk about our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1652.33,"endTime":1655.81,"body":"different positionality in a way"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1655.81,"endTime":1660.01,"body":"that's conducive to that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1655.81,"endTime":1660.01,"body":"authenticity and connection and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1660.01,"endTime":1660.73,"body":"change?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.06,"endTime":1664.24,"body":"That? That's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.06,"endTime":1664.24,"body":"question. And I think it goes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1664.24,"endTime":1667.8999999999999,"body":"back to so so let's, let's talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1664.24,"endTime":1667.8999999999999,"body":"about how not to do it first,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.8999999999999,"endTime":1672.01,"body":"and then I'll use that to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.8999999999999,"endTime":1672.01,"body":"transition to how we actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1672.01,"endTime":1676.09,"body":"talk about it effectively."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1672.01,"endTime":1676.09,"body":"There's been a lot of interest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.09,"endTime":1680.2,"body":"in the last few years in making"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.09,"endTime":1680.2,"body":"these identity related"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.2,"endTime":1684.46,"body":"conversations more explicit. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.2,"endTime":1684.46,"body":"it's been empowering for a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.46,"endTime":1688.09,"body":"of people, right? There's this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.46,"endTime":1688.09,"body":"new wave of talking about race"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.09,"endTime":1692.44,"body":"explicitly of talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.09,"endTime":1692.44,"body":"disability, religion, sexuality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1692.44,"endTime":1697.48,"body":"explicitly, especially for, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1692.44,"endTime":1697.48,"body":"know, folks who are from his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.6599999999999,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"historically disadvantaged"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.6599999999999,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"communities, right. Getting to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1705.94,"body":"talk about their identities has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1705.94,"body":"been enormously empowering. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.6,"endTime":1708.94,"body":"we actually have some really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.6,"endTime":1708.94,"body":"interesting research from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1708.94,"endTime":1715.12,"body":"2000s. On the multiculturalism"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1708.94,"endTime":1715.12,"body":"movement. If you remember,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.12,"endTime":1721.8999999999999,"body":"around the time, there was this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.12,"endTime":1721.8999999999999,"body":"huge fad, if you will, to really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.8999999999999,"endTime":1725.86,"body":"focus on like the flags and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.8999999999999,"endTime":1725.86,"body":"food and like cultural"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.86,"endTime":1729.07,"body":"celebrations, they're a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.86,"endTime":1729.07,"body":"less popular now. Think Thank"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.1,"endTime":1733.3899999999999,"body":"you. No, thank goodness, but it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.1,"endTime":1733.3899999999999,"body":"was all about celebrating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1733.51,"endTime":1736.6599999999999,"body":"identity. But here's the thing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1733.51,"endTime":1736.6599999999999,"body":"it wasn't about celebrating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.6599999999999,"endTime":1740.6499999999999,"body":"everyone's identity. It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.6599999999999,"endTime":1740.6499999999999,"body":"about making space for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1740.68,"endTime":1744.1599999999999,"body":"marginalized employees to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1740.68,"endTime":1744.1599999999999,"body":"pride in their own identities"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1744.1599999999999,"endTime":1749.29,"body":"and celebrate them, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1744.1599999999999,"endTime":1749.29,"body":"great. And the big downfall of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.29,"endTime":1752.11,"body":"those initiatives was that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.29,"endTime":1752.11,"body":"still made no space to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1752.11,"endTime":1756.37,"body":"about masculinity. They made no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1752.11,"endTime":1756.37,"body":"spaces to talk about whiteness,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1756.49,"endTime":1759.22,"body":"they made no spaces to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1756.49,"endTime":1759.22,"body":"about being cisgender and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1759.22,"endTime":1762.49,"body":"heterosexual. And so all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1759.22,"endTime":1762.49,"body":"these privileged identities,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.49,"endTime":1765.9099999999999,"body":"which we know from lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.49,"endTime":1765.9099999999999,"body":"research, right, one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.9099999999999,"endTime":1769.21,"body":"benefits, but also the curses of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.9099999999999,"endTime":1769.21,"body":"having privileges, never needing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.21,"endTime":1773.53,"body":"to name it. All these groups"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.21,"endTime":1773.53,"body":"didn't have a way to talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.53,"endTime":1776.56,"body":"their identities. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.53,"endTime":1776.56,"body":"paradoxically, they felt a sense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.56,"endTime":1779.47,"body":"of exclusion. Right? There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.56,"endTime":1779.47,"body":"events for everyone except for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.47,"endTime":1783.28,"body":"me. And that sense of exclusion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.47,"endTime":1783.28,"body":"eventually bred contempt, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1783.28,"endTime":1786.07,"body":"that contempt eventually bred"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1783.28,"endTime":1786.07,"body":"backlash. And then well, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.07,"endTime":1790.36,"body":"know, that was the end of that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.07,"endTime":1790.36,"body":"Now, I think there's something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1790.36,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"to take away from that though,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1790.36,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"right? Like, we shouldn't just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.21,"endTime":1795.94,"body":"take away like, oh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.21,"endTime":1795.94,"body":"the white men ruined it for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.94,"endTime":1798.73,"body":"everyone again, instead, we need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1795.94,"endTime":1798.73,"body":"to take a different approach to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1798.73,"endTime":1802.99,"body":"this work that says identity is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1798.73,"endTime":1802.99,"body":"critical, and everyone has one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1803.74,"endTime":1807.8799999999999,"body":"And when we talk about identity,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1803.74,"endTime":1807.8799999999999,"body":"we need to do so in a way that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.8799999999999,"endTime":1811.06,"body":"recognizes that we're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.8799999999999,"endTime":1811.06,"body":"playing oppression Olympics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1811.06,"endTime":1815.32,"body":"here. We're genuinely trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1811.06,"endTime":1815.32,"body":"understand how our positionality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.32,"endTime":1820.78,"body":"our unique positionality impacts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.32,"endTime":1820.78,"body":"who we are, impacts how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1820.78,"endTime":1824.47,"body":"navigate systems and gives us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1820.78,"endTime":1824.47,"body":"insight into building better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.47,"endTime":1828.37,"body":"ones. This is one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.47,"endTime":1828.37,"body":"problems I see with identity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1828.37,"endTime":1833.08,"body":"related con conversations. Its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1828.37,"endTime":1833.08,"body":"identity for the sake of of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1833.1399999999999,"endTime":1836.86,"body":"ending up Higher or lower on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1833.1399999999999,"endTime":1836.86,"body":"this oppression Olympics, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.86,"endTime":1840.6699999999998,"body":"know, poll, right? Like it's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.86,"endTime":1840.6699999999998,"body":"it's absolutely the wrong way to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.6699999999998,"endTime":1844.4199999999998,"body":"think about it saying like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.6699999999998,"endTime":1844.4199999999998,"body":"Well, I'm a queer, trans, non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.4199999999998,"endTime":1850.12,"body":"binary neurodivergent person of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.4199999999998,"endTime":1850.12,"body":"color. So I check all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.12,"endTime":1855.22,"body":"marginalized boxes, right? But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.12,"endTime":1855.22,"body":"unfortunately, I'm like I grew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.22,"endTime":1859.33,"body":"up upper middle class. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.22,"endTime":1859.33,"body":"don't have that marginalization."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1859.33,"endTime":1861.6699999999998,"body":"And then maybe someone else is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1859.33,"endTime":1861.6699999999998,"body":"like, Oh, well, I have all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.6699999999998,"endTime":1864.85,"body":"same identities as you, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.6699999999998,"endTime":1864.85,"body":"poor. So I'm more marginalized,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1864.85,"endTime":1867.76,"body":"meaning you should listen to me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1864.85,"endTime":1867.76,"body":"more, right? And it turns into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.76,"endTime":1871.18,"body":"this really weird. I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.76,"endTime":1871.18,"body":"know, oppression Olympics,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.18,"endTime":1874.33,"body":"right, this weird competition to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.18,"endTime":1874.33,"body":"say, whose voice actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.33,"endTime":1878.47,"body":"matters. And those conversations"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.33,"endTime":1878.47,"body":"are toxic, they get in the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.47,"endTime":1881.5,"body":"of doing anything they make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1878.47,"endTime":1881.5,"body":"people who have more privileged"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.5,"endTime":1886.99,"body":"identities feel horrible, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.5,"endTime":1886.99,"body":"And they get in the way of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.59,"endTime":1891.01,"body":"movement building and real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.59,"endTime":1891.01,"body":"change. So instead, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.01,"endTime":1894.3999999999999,"body":"need to move towards a place"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.01,"endTime":1894.3999999999999,"body":"where yes, we talk openly about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.3999999999999,"endTime":1898.21,"body":"our identities, but also our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.3999999999999,"endTime":1898.21,"body":"privileged ones. We also talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.36,"endTime":1901.33,"body":"about, you know, all of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.36,"endTime":1901.33,"body":"experiences we had that were not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.33,"endTime":1905.26,"body":"marginalized, but not for this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.33,"endTime":1905.26,"body":"weird abstract, like, let's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1905.26,"endTime":1908.77,"body":"share everything about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1905.26,"endTime":1908.77,"body":"ourselves, but specifically for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.77,"endTime":1912.61,"body":"a purpose. And that purpose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.77,"endTime":1912.61,"body":"should be at least in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.61,"endTime":1916.6599999999999,"body":"workplace setting, helping to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.61,"endTime":1916.6599999999999,"body":"understand how our current"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.6599999999999,"endTime":1920.5,"body":"workplace impacts all of us, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.6599999999999,"endTime":1920.5,"body":"that we can understand how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.5,"endTime":1925.06,"body":"build a better one, right? Not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.5,"endTime":1925.06,"body":"identity disclosure, for its own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.06,"endTime":1929.8899999999999,"body":"sake. But for the sake of making"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.06,"endTime":1929.8899999999999,"body":"better organizations, that needs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1929.8899999999999,"endTime":1934.69,"body":"to be the way we do it. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1929.8899999999999,"endTime":1934.69,"body":"not out here, listing 20"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.72,"endTime":1938.62,"body":"identities to seem cool. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.72,"endTime":1938.62,"body":"here listing my identities,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.62,"endTime":1941.44,"body":"because those identities"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.62,"endTime":1941.44,"body":"intersect in a way that gives me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1941.44,"endTime":1944.2,"body":"a really interesting experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1941.44,"endTime":1944.2,"body":"in a workplace, those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.2,"endTime":1947.11,"body":"identities, let me analyze,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.2,"endTime":1947.11,"body":"let's say you know how certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.11,"endTime":1950.26,"body":"policies impact certain groups"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.11,"endTime":1950.26,"body":"of people, or how certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.26,"endTime":1954.1,"body":"processes might leave certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.26,"endTime":1954.1,"body":"groups of people out, so that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.1,"endTime":1957.8799999999999,"body":"can design better. And if we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.1,"endTime":1957.8799999999999,"body":"move towards this new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1957.8799999999999,"endTime":1963.01,"body":"perspective of identity as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1957.8799999999999,"endTime":1963.01,"body":"tool for us to understand the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.01,"endTime":1965.68,"body":"world around us, rather than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.01,"endTime":1965.68,"body":"just a way for us to measure how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1965.68,"endTime":1968.56,"body":"good or bad we are, which I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1965.68,"endTime":1968.56,"body":"think is extremely unproductive,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.3999999999999,"endTime":1973.18,"body":"then we can make more space for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.3999999999999,"endTime":1973.18,"body":"everybody to have a place in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1973.18,"endTime":1977.77,"body":"that conversation. Right? We can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1973.18,"endTime":1977.77,"body":"make it so I don't know, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.77,"endTime":1980.44,"body":"cisgender, heterosexual white"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.77,"endTime":1980.44,"body":"man can say I'm cisgender,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.44,"endTime":1983.8,"body":"heterosexual and white, and not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.44,"endTime":1983.8,"body":"feel any sense of shame from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.8,"endTime":1987.52,"body":"that. And just say, because of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.8,"endTime":1987.52,"body":"these identities, this is how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.52,"endTime":1990.6399999999999,"body":"perceive the organization. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.52,"endTime":1990.6399999999999,"body":"then someone else can say, well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.6399999999999,"endTime":1992.74,"body":"that's really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.6399999999999,"endTime":1992.74,"body":"because I don't see it that way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.43,"endTime":1996.04,"body":"As a person with very different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.43,"endTime":1996.04,"body":"identities, this is how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.04,"endTime":1999.01,"body":"perceive the organization. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.04,"endTime":1999.01,"body":"then maybe they can say, Wow,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.01,"endTime":2002.3999999999999,"body":"those are very different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.01,"endTime":2002.3999999999999,"body":"experiences. How is it that our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2002.3999999999999,"endTime":2005.73,"body":"existing processes or policies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2002.3999999999999,"endTime":2005.73,"body":"or culture or strategy can lend"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2005.73,"endTime":2010.44,"body":"itself to, to two different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2005.73,"endTime":2010.44,"body":"experiences? How do we reconcile"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2010.44,"endTime":2013.8899999999999,"body":"that? How do we do better? How"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2010.44,"endTime":2013.8899999999999,"body":"can we design better? That's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.8899999999999,"endTime":2016.44,"body":"role that identity should have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.8899999999999,"endTime":2016.44,"body":"in these conversations."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2017.82,"endTime":2020.6399999999999,"body":"I love that it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2017.82,"endTime":2020.6399999999999,"body":"so much more relational, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2020.6399999999999,"endTime":2023.1299999999999,"body":"Because I've been at this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2020.6399999999999,"endTime":2023.1299999999999,"body":"meeting where everybody's like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2023.73,"endTime":2028.53,"body":"almost like reciting their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2023.73,"endTime":2028.53,"body":"identity, weird. It is weird,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2028.53,"endTime":2031.02,"body":"you know, you go around, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2028.53,"endTime":2031.02,"body":"then I'm like, Oh, my God, did I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2031.02,"endTime":2034.6499999999999,"body":"remember all my identities?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2031.02,"endTime":2034.6499999999999,"body":"Right? You know, and also, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2034.6499999999999,"endTime":2037.23,"body":"like, then there isn't always"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2034.6499999999999,"endTime":2037.23,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.32,"endTime":2040.1699999999998,"body":"so what? Right? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.32,"endTime":2040.1699999999998,"body":"what do you do with it?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2041.19,"endTime":2043.1399999999999,"body":"And there isn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2041.19,"endTime":2043.1399999999999,"body":"always that awareness that goes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2043.1399999999999,"endTime":2046.02,"body":"with it. Okay, so now we've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2043.1399999999999,"endTime":2046.02,"body":"listed all our identities, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2046.02,"endTime":2048.84,"body":"then we never, we don't talk"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2046.02,"endTime":2048.84,"body":"about it, right? We don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2048.84,"endTime":2053.73,"body":"reflect on how that impacts the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2048.84,"endTime":2053.73,"body":"dynamic in the group or what's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2053.73,"endTime":2058.29,"body":"happening. So this is so much"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2053.73,"endTime":2058.29,"body":"more complex, but relational,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2058.32,"endTime":2059.67,"body":"right, in some ways,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2060.0,"endTime":2063.33,"body":"right? And, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2060.0,"endTime":2063.33,"body":"know, if I could go so far as to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2063.33,"endTime":2068.4900000000002,"body":"say, I think this is the vision"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2063.33,"endTime":2068.4900000000002,"body":"of why it is people started"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2068.4900000000002,"endTime":2072.3,"body":"talking about identity in the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2068.4900000000002,"endTime":2072.3,"body":"first place, but we didn't focus"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2072.3,"endTime":2078.0,"body":"enough on that. And over time,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2072.3,"endTime":2078.0,"body":"the act of disclosure became"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2078.0,"endTime":2081.1800000000003,"body":"everything, right, like people"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2078.0,"endTime":2081.1800000000003,"body":"forgotten why it is we need to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2081.1800000000003,"endTime":2083.76,"body":"disclose identity and just turn"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2081.1800000000003,"endTime":2083.76,"body":"it into some weird game of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2083.76,"endTime":2087.54,"body":"listing all of our identities on"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2083.76,"endTime":2087.54,"body":"a on a piece of paper, right,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2087.54,"endTime":2092.34,"body":"like, and, and stripped all the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2087.54,"endTime":2092.34,"body":"power out of him. And if"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2092.34,"endTime":2096.42,"body":"anything, right, like, it even"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2092.34,"endTime":2096.42,"body":"became toxic, right? It came to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2096.42,"endTime":2098.8500000000004,"body":"a place where like, well if you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2096.42,"endTime":2098.8500000000004,"body":"don't share your identities, and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2098.8500000000004,"endTime":2101.6400000000003,"body":"we judge you or if you have more"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2098.8500000000004,"endTime":2101.6400000000003,"body":"privileged identities than we"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2101.6400000000003,"endTime":2105.09,"body":"judge you and it all goes back"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2101.6400000000003,"endTime":2105.09,"body":"to this you know, horrible mess"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2105.09,"endTime":2110.01,"body":"of blame and shame and and, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2105.09,"endTime":2110.01,"body":"know, social comparison and I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2110.01,"endTime":2112.8300000000004,"body":"don't know, right, like it's,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2110.01,"endTime":2112.8300000000004,"body":"it's not good for people. It's"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2112.8300000000004,"endTime":2117.42,"body":"not good for organizations. And,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2112.8300000000004,"endTime":2117.42,"body":"frankly, it's not effective and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2117.42,"endTime":2121.2000000000003,"body":"the DEI spade is for helping"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2117.42,"endTime":2121.2000000000003,"body":"people move on and build better"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2121.2000000000003,"endTime":2122.67,"body":"and and do better."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2123.36,"endTime":2125.55,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2123.36,"endTime":2125.55,"body":"It's definitely not conducive to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2125.55,"endTime":2129.69,"body":"change. In my experience. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2125.55,"endTime":2129.69,"body":"almost like a confession here."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2129.75,"endTime":2133.26,"body":"Here are all my identities and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2129.75,"endTime":2133.26,"body":"now have been a good ally"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2133.29,"endTime":2136.11,"body":"because of you Let's settle this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2133.29,"endTime":2136.11,"body":"thing. So right, yes, that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2136.11,"endTime":2139.23,"body":"doesn't change anything. Well,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2136.11,"endTime":2139.23,"body":"given that this is gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2139.23,"endTime":2143.73,"body":"stories, let's get into gender a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2139.23,"endTime":2143.73,"body":"little bit more. And I hope it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2143.73,"endTime":2146.79,"body":"okay to get a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2143.73,"endTime":2146.79,"body":"personal. And you know, I know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2146.79,"endTime":2150.57,"body":"your pronouns, but I don't know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2146.79,"endTime":2150.57,"body":"your identities. But I'm curious"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2150.57,"endTime":2154.2000000000003,"body":"about are your gender impacts"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2150.57,"endTime":2154.2000000000003,"body":"the work that you do and what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2154.2000000000003,"endTime":2157.6800000000003,"body":"kind of challenges and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2154.2000000000003,"endTime":2157.6800000000003,"body":"opportunities you've encountered"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2157.6800000000003,"endTime":2160.11,"body":"because of your gender. And of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2157.6800000000003,"endTime":2160.11,"body":"course, when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2160.11,"endTime":2163.4100000000003,"body":"gender, we can never separate it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2160.11,"endTime":2163.4100000000003,"body":"from all the other aspects of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2163.4100000000003,"endTime":2168.0600000000004,"body":"our identities, right? Whether"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2163.4100000000003,"endTime":2168.0600000000004,"body":"you know, our, our class, their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2168.0600000000004,"endTime":2171.6600000000003,"body":"sexuality, how we are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2168.0600000000004,"endTime":2171.6600000000003,"body":"racialized. So when I say"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2171.6600000000003,"endTime":2174.9300000000003,"body":"gender, I also say all those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2171.6600000000003,"endTime":2174.9300000000003,"body":"other things that kind of are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2174.9300000000003,"endTime":2177.0,"body":"impossible to separate in some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2174.9300000000003,"endTime":2177.0,"body":"ways."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2177.0600000000004,"endTime":2179.61,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2177.0600000000004,"endTime":2179.61,"body":"But focusing on gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2179.61,"endTime":2183.8700000000003,"body":"primarily, I think my answer to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2179.61,"endTime":2183.8700000000003,"body":"this question has changed over"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2183.8700000000003,"endTime":2188.01,"body":"the years, which I guess is not"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2183.8700000000003,"endTime":2188.01,"body":"super uncommon for trans people,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2188.01,"endTime":2192.69,"body":"I am trans. But I would say"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2188.01,"endTime":2192.69,"body":"given that I transitioned really"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2192.69,"endTime":2198.21,"body":"early, and spent most of my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2192.69,"endTime":2198.21,"body":"professional career as a trans"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2198.21,"endTime":2203.19,"body":"women, I think, most of my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2198.21,"endTime":2203.19,"body":"experiences having my gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2203.19,"endTime":2206.46,"body":"impact my work was was at the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2203.19,"endTime":2206.46,"body":"beginning of my career as a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2206.46,"endTime":2211.1400000000003,"body":"trans woman or trans feminine"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2206.46,"endTime":2211.1400000000003,"body":"person, I think, I spent a lot"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2211.1400000000003,"endTime":2214.4100000000003,"body":"of time thinking about my gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2211.1400000000003,"endTime":2214.4100000000003,"body":"expression, and my gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2214.4100000000003,"endTime":2218.3700000000003,"body":"presentation and all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2214.4100000000003,"endTime":2218.3700000000003,"body":"things from how I talked to how"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2218.3700000000003,"endTime":2222.15,"body":"I related to people. Like I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2218.3700000000003,"endTime":2222.15,"body":"think I spent a lot more effort"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2222.15,"endTime":2225.4500000000003,"body":"to like pitch my voice. Right, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2222.15,"endTime":2225.4500000000003,"body":"was performing gender a lot more"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2225.4500000000003,"endTime":2231.7200000000003,"body":"in that way. And I would say"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2225.4500000000003,"endTime":2231.7200000000003,"body":"that I was impacted by a lot of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2231.75,"endTime":2237.0,"body":"the societal expectations around"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2231.75,"endTime":2237.0,"body":"women, right? Which certainly"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2237.03,"endTime":2242.55,"body":"trans women face as well. I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2237.03,"endTime":2242.55,"body":"think it's complicated, because"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2242.5800000000004,"endTime":2246.3,"body":"I'm also East Asian, right. And"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2242.5800000000004,"endTime":2246.3,"body":"there are additional"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2246.6000000000004,"endTime":2250.44,"body":"prescriptive stereotypes about"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2246.6000000000004,"endTime":2250.44,"body":"East Asians, right, being docile"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2250.44,"endTime":2257.55,"body":"or quiet or soft spoken, or"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2250.44,"endTime":2257.55,"body":"referential or whatnot. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2257.55,"endTime":2259.8900000000003,"body":"sure it comes across. But"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2257.55,"endTime":2259.8900000000003,"body":"that's, that's not exactly my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2259.8900000000003,"endTime":2264.42,"body":"personality. I'm pretty out"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2259.8900000000003,"endTime":2264.42,"body":"there. I will say what I want to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2264.42,"endTime":2267.1200000000003,"body":"say so early on in my career, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2264.42,"endTime":2267.1200000000003,"body":"think there were some people"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2267.36,"endTime":2270.78,"body":"who, given how I looked and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2267.36,"endTime":2270.78,"body":"presented were like, Oh, I was"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2270.78,"endTime":2274.77,"body":"expecting you to be a lot more"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2270.78,"endTime":2274.77,"body":"soft spoken. Like, you're kind"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2274.77,"endTime":2279.51,"body":"of in my face. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2274.77,"endTime":2279.51,"body":"Yeah, I guess I am. However, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2279.51,"endTime":2283.5600000000004,"body":"think that's changed a lot in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2279.51,"endTime":2283.5600000000004,"body":"the last few years. Namely, in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2283.5600000000004,"endTime":2287.04,"body":"that I don't identify as a trans"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2283.5600000000004,"endTime":2287.04,"body":"woman these these days, I, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2287.04,"endTime":2291.3900000000003,"body":"know, I, right now, I would"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2287.04,"endTime":2291.3900000000003,"body":"probably identify as like a non"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2291.3900000000003,"endTime":2297.1800000000003,"body":"binary trans femme, maybe the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2291.3900000000003,"endTime":2297.1800000000003,"body":"terms change all the time. And"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2297.21,"endTime":2300.57,"body":"sometimes my sense of gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2297.21,"endTime":2300.57,"body":"changes all the time, too. But"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2301.11,"endTime":2306.84,"body":"it's been weird, because since"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2301.11,"endTime":2306.84,"body":"changing my my pronouns, and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2306.84,"endTime":2310.11,"body":"changing how I identify, I would"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2306.84,"endTime":2310.11,"body":"say I'm treated a little"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2310.11,"endTime":2313.53,"body":"differently than I used to be."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2310.11,"endTime":2313.53,"body":"And I think it's just that no"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2313.53,"endTime":2316.5,"body":"one knows how to classify me in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2313.53,"endTime":2316.5,"body":"terms of gender, so they just"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2316.5,"endTime":2320.67,"body":"don't try. Which I feel bad for"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2316.5,"endTime":2320.67,"body":"saying, but it's kind of nice."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2320.82,"endTime":2324.2400000000002,"body":"Like, I don't feel like I get"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2320.82,"endTime":2324.2400000000002,"body":"judged by masculine stereotypes."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2324.2400000000002,"endTime":2327.3300000000004,"body":"And I also feel like I don't get"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2324.2400000000002,"endTime":2327.3300000000004,"body":"judged by feminine stereotypes."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2327.54,"endTime":2332.34,"body":"So I don't know whether it's"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2327.54,"endTime":2332.34,"body":"because I lucked out into some"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2332.34,"endTime":2336.9300000000003,"body":"magic secret sweetspot of gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2332.34,"endTime":2336.9300000000003,"body":"and race and whatnot. But um,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2337.77,"endTime":2339.8100000000004,"body":"yeah, I don't have too many"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2337.77,"endTime":2339.8100000000004,"body":"experiences in the last few"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2339.8100000000004,"endTime":2342.6000000000004,"body":"years, where I feel like I was"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2339.8100000000004,"endTime":2342.6000000000004,"body":"really judged on the basis of my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2342.6000000000004,"endTime":2346.4700000000003,"body":"gender. And I can certainly"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2342.6000000000004,"endTime":2346.4700000000003,"body":"hypothesize why Right? Like, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2346.4700000000003,"endTime":2350.82,"body":"think, maybe like, like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2346.4700000000003,"endTime":2350.82,"body":"still visually Asian, right."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2352.2000000000003,"endTime":2356.61,"body":"And, in general, there are"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2352.2000000000003,"endTime":2356.61,"body":"stereotypes that say that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2356.61,"endTime":2361.86,"body":"Asians, you know, are typically"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2356.61,"endTime":2361.86,"body":"not as outspoken. So, maybe the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2361.86,"endTime":2367.02,"body":"fact that I am outspoken, sort"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2361.86,"endTime":2367.02,"body":"of makes that a novelty. And"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2367.02,"endTime":2371.55,"body":"maybe, like, breaks people's"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2367.02,"endTime":2371.55,"body":"brains or something, right. But"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2372.15,"endTime":2376.38,"body":"Asians are also seen as non"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2372.15,"endTime":2376.38,"body":"threatening, and me being a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2376.38,"endTime":2380.94,"body":"agentic and confidence, which,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2376.38,"endTime":2380.94,"body":"you know, that behavior would"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2380.94,"endTime":2384.3300000000004,"body":"probably be seen as threatening,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2380.94,"endTime":2384.3300000000004,"body":"if it was from, let's say, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2384.3300000000004,"endTime":2386.9700000000003,"body":"know, like a black man, for"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2384.3300000000004,"endTime":2386.9700000000003,"body":"example, because of my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2386.9700000000003,"endTime":2392.3700000000003,"body":"positionality, I can get away"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2386.9700000000003,"endTime":2392.3700000000003,"body":"with being competent. And, and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2392.3700000000003,"endTime":2395.79,"body":"sometimes I would say, a little"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2392.3700000000003,"endTime":2395.79,"body":"aggressive with with how I talk,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2396.0600000000004,"endTime":2399.6600000000003,"body":"and not be seen as as"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2396.0600000000004,"endTime":2399.6600000000003,"body":"threatening, right? So maybe,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2399.7200000000003,"endTime":2402.6600000000003,"body":"maybe it's some something like"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2399.7200000000003,"endTime":2402.6600000000003,"body":"that. But it's really hard to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2402.6600000000003,"endTime":2404.82,"body":"sort of fit yourself in as a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2402.6600000000003,"endTime":2404.82,"body":"person into all of these"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2404.82,"endTime":2408.2400000000002,"body":"theories about race and gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2404.82,"endTime":2408.2400000000002,"body":"and whatnot. The simple answer I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2408.2400000000002,"endTime":2413.3700000000003,"body":"can give is, it doesn't seem"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2408.2400000000002,"endTime":2413.3700000000003,"body":"like I am treated negatively on"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2413.3700000000003,"endTime":2418.92,"body":"the basis of my race and gender"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2413.3700000000003,"endTime":2418.92,"body":"these days. Part of that is I've"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2418.9500000000003,"endTime":2424.98,"body":"taken some personal efforts to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2418.9500000000003,"endTime":2424.98,"body":"to disambiguate myself from"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2425.13,"endTime":2428.67,"body":"being seen in like hyper"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2425.13,"endTime":2428.67,"body":"gendered ways, both in terms of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2428.67,"endTime":2431.9100000000003,"body":"like, how I talk about myself"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2428.67,"endTime":2431.9100000000003,"body":"and how I relate to the work"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2431.9100000000003,"endTime":2435.36,"body":"that I do, but also just Like"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2431.9100000000003,"endTime":2435.36,"body":"how I've tried to position my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2435.36,"endTime":2441.3,"body":"career, because I used to, when"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2435.36,"endTime":2441.3,"body":"I was a trans fam, and identify"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2441.3,"endTime":2445.6800000000003,"body":"this one, I used to do trans"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2441.3,"endTime":2445.6800000000003,"body":"inclusion trainings. And like a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2445.6800000000003,"endTime":2447.9300000000003,"body":"lot of trans people who did"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2445.6800000000003,"endTime":2447.9300000000003,"body":"trans inclusion trainings, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2447.9300000000003,"endTime":2451.23,"body":"lead with my own story, right?"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2447.9300000000003,"endTime":2451.23,"body":"Like that was how I connected"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2451.26,"endTime":2455.76,"body":"with people. So, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2451.26,"endTime":2455.76,"body":"frame it very crudely, I go into"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2455.76,"endTime":2458.1600000000003,"body":"a room and cry in front of a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2455.76,"endTime":2458.1600000000003,"body":"bunch of sis people all the time"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2458.1600000000003,"endTime":2462.36,"body":"about my experience of gender."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2458.1600000000003,"endTime":2462.36,"body":"And I'm lucky enough and I have"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2462.36,"endTime":2467.76,"body":"on purpose, trying to no longer"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2462.36,"endTime":2467.76,"body":"do that. Like, I hate that,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2467.79,"endTime":2470.3100000000004,"body":"like, I don't like going into a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2467.79,"endTime":2470.3100000000004,"body":"room and performing my trauma."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2470.55,"endTime":2473.3700000000003,"body":"Like now people bring me into a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2470.55,"endTime":2473.3700000000003,"body":"room because they want the best"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2473.3700000000003,"endTime":2476.67,"body":"DEI strategist around and I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2473.3700000000003,"endTime":2476.67,"body":"think I'm that right? Like, I've"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2476.67,"endTime":2480.27,"body":"tried really hard to specialize"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2476.67,"endTime":2480.27,"body":"in a direction that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2480.27,"endTime":2483.84,"body":"require that I perform my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2480.27,"endTime":2483.84,"body":"trauma. And as a result, it's"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2483.84,"endTime":2487.02,"body":"not that my identity doesn't"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2483.84,"endTime":2487.02,"body":"impact my work. But I lead"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2487.02,"endTime":2491.46,"body":"primarily with my ideas and my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2487.02,"endTime":2491.46,"body":"thought leadership and the work"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2491.46,"endTime":2495.48,"body":"that I do, rather than, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2491.46,"endTime":2495.48,"body":"know, I fit all of these boxes,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2495.48,"endTime":2498.69,"body":"and I check all of these boxes"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2495.48,"endTime":2498.69,"body":"and all that, right, like I've"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2498.69,"endTime":2499.8,"body":"tried to move away from it."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2500.76,"endTime":2503.28,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2500.76,"endTime":2503.28,"body":"because I think that it can be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2503.28,"endTime":2507.69,"body":"so easy to get caught up into"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2503.28,"endTime":2507.69,"body":"that having to perform our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2507.69,"endTime":2511.17,"body":"stories or our trauma, when we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2507.69,"endTime":2511.17,"body":"do inclusion trainings. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2511.17,"endTime":2515.4300000000003,"body":"think personally, as somebody"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2511.17,"endTime":2515.4300000000003,"body":"who also sometimes does"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2515.4300000000003,"endTime":2519.21,"body":"consultancy and training, have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2515.4300000000003,"endTime":2519.21,"body":"moved away from that to in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2519.21,"endTime":2523.11,"body":"very much actually start from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2519.21,"endTime":2523.11,"body":"asking people to think about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2523.11,"endTime":2525.51,"body":"their own gender, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2523.11,"endTime":2525.51,"body":"sometimes sets them back a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2525.51,"endTime":2527.76,"body":"little bit because I'm like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2525.51,"endTime":2527.76,"body":"we thought we brought you in to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2527.76,"endTime":2530.94,"body":"talk about that, or people that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2527.76,"endTime":2530.94,"body":"were there were trans."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2531.15,"endTime":2533.3100000000004,"body":"The Trans people are"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2531.15,"endTime":2533.3100000000004,"body":"the ones who have gender, we"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2533.3100000000004,"endTime":2534.42,"body":"don't right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2534.9,"endTime":2536.9700000000003,"body":"Now you're asking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2534.9,"endTime":2536.9700000000003,"body":"me all those questions about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2536.9700000000003,"endTime":2540.6600000000003,"body":"gender, which maybe I've thought"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2536.9700000000003,"endTime":2540.6600000000003,"body":"about or not, and I'm a little"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2540.69,"endTime":2544.5600000000004,"body":"uncomfortable, but also now"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2540.69,"endTime":2544.5600000000004,"body":"we're all there's something that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2544.5600000000004,"endTime":2547.8300000000004,"body":"couldn't access as well, right"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2544.5600000000004,"endTime":2547.8300000000004,"body":"now, it's not this other reading"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2547.8300000000004,"endTime":2552.2400000000002,"body":"experience. And so yeah, there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2547.8300000000004,"endTime":2552.2400000000002,"body":"was, as you were talking, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2552.2400000000002,"endTime":2556.02,"body":"resonating with some of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2552.2400000000002,"endTime":2556.02,"body":"things you were saying which and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2556.02,"endTime":2558.1200000000003,"body":"I feel like I could go on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2556.02,"endTime":2558.1200000000003,"body":"forever and in this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2558.1200000000003,"endTime":2563.3100000000004,"body":"conversation, but I want to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2558.1200000000003,"endTime":2563.3100000000004,"body":"respectful of your time. So is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2563.3100000000004,"endTime":2566.01,"body":"there anything that we haven't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2563.3100000000004,"endTime":2566.01,"body":"talked about that you would"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2566.01,"endTime":2569.9700000000003,"body":"really like to share with the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2566.01,"endTime":2569.9700000000003,"body":"gender stories, listeners, about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2570.0,"endTime":2574.26,"body":"either your book or dei work in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2570.0,"endTime":2574.26,"body":"general, or really anything that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2574.26,"endTime":2575.79,"body":"you want to share with the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2574.26,"endTime":2575.79,"body":"listeners?"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2576.21,"endTime":2580.6200000000003,"body":"Oh, man, but there's"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2576.21,"endTime":2580.6200000000003,"body":"so much. I really liked what you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2580.6200000000003,"endTime":2583.8900000000003,"body":"had to say earlier about asking"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2580.6200000000003,"endTime":2583.8900000000003,"body":"people their personal"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2583.8900000000003,"endTime":2588.3300000000004,"body":"relationship to gender, in a lot"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2583.8900000000003,"endTime":2588.3300000000004,"body":"of ways that actually mirrors"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2588.3300000000004,"endTime":2594.1800000000003,"body":"some approaches that I take with"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2588.3300000000004,"endTime":2594.1800000000003,"body":"helping, let's say, men, or you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2594.1800000000003,"endTime":2597.36,"body":"know, folks with other"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2594.1800000000003,"endTime":2597.36,"body":"privileged identities, grapple"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2597.36,"endTime":2601.44,"body":"with those identities in the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2597.36,"endTime":2601.44,"body":"workplace. And I frequently will"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2601.44,"endTime":2605.76,"body":"lead a conversation that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2601.44,"endTime":2605.76,"body":"essentially says men like, I'd"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2605.76,"endTime":2610.7400000000002,"body":"love if you could teach us about"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2605.76,"endTime":2610.7400000000002,"body":"gender. And they often pause,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2610.8,"endTime":2616.02,"body":"like, you know, they were"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2610.8,"endTime":2616.02,"body":"nominated for something, they"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2616.02,"endTime":2618.57,"body":"have no expertise. And they're"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2616.02,"endTime":2618.57,"body":"just like, Well, my wife knows a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2618.57,"endTime":2622.17,"body":"lot about gender. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2618.57,"endTime":2622.17,"body":"anything about gender, right? I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2622.17,"endTime":2625.1400000000003,"body":"remember I was talking to an"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2622.17,"endTime":2625.1400000000003,"body":"executive who says, Well, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2625.1400000000003,"endTime":2628.5600000000004,"body":"thought I knew a lot about the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2625.1400000000003,"endTime":2628.5600000000004,"body":"workplace. For example, I don't"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2628.5600000000004,"endTime":2630.75,"body":"know anything about gender. But"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2628.5600000000004,"endTime":2630.75,"body":"I know a lot about the workplace"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2630.75,"endTime":2634.86,"body":"and how promotions work. But my"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2630.75,"endTime":2634.86,"body":"wife has been telling me about"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2634.86,"endTime":2639.3,"body":"her experience of gender, and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2634.86,"endTime":2639.3,"body":"how maybe the workplace isn't"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2639.3,"endTime":2642.15,"body":"what I thought it was given that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2639.3,"endTime":2642.15,"body":"her experiences are so different"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2642.15,"endTime":2646.7400000000002,"body":"from mine. And I push back"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2642.15,"endTime":2646.7400000000002,"body":"against this person, and I said,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2646.7400000000002,"endTime":2650.94,"body":"Look, your wife understands"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2646.7400000000002,"endTime":2650.94,"body":"gender and knows how to work how"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2650.94,"endTime":2654.4500000000003,"body":"the workplace functions for"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2650.94,"endTime":2654.4500000000003,"body":"people of her gender. And you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2654.48,"endTime":2657.8700000000003,"body":"also understand gender, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2654.48,"endTime":2657.8700000000003,"body":"know, how the workplace"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2657.8700000000003,"endTime":2662.52,"body":"functions for people of your"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2657.8700000000003,"endTime":2662.52,"body":"gender. And this is something"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2662.52,"endTime":2665.1000000000004,"body":"difficult, it's that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2662.52,"endTime":2665.1000000000004,"body":"I mentioned this about privilege"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2665.1000000000004,"endTime":2669.1200000000003,"body":"earlier, it's a it's a double"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2665.1000000000004,"endTime":2669.1200000000003,"body":"bladed sword, right? Like, you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2669.1200000000003,"endTime":2673.53,"body":"don't think too often about how"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2669.1200000000003,"endTime":2673.53,"body":"your privilege is itself. A"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2673.53,"endTime":2676.7400000000002,"body":"unique experience, right, like"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2673.53,"endTime":2676.7400000000002,"body":"masculinity is a unique"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2676.7400000000002,"endTime":2681.69,"body":"experience, and being able to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2676.7400000000002,"endTime":2681.69,"body":"unpack exactly how you being a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2681.69,"endTime":2686.1600000000003,"body":"man, are you being white, or you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2681.69,"endTime":2686.1600000000003,"body":"being upper class? Are you being"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2686.1600000000003,"endTime":2691.32,"body":"non disabled, or cisgender, or,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2686.1600000000003,"endTime":2691.32,"body":"or heterosexual? How all that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2691.32,"endTime":2695.19,"body":"affected your experience, not in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2691.32,"endTime":2695.19,"body":"any good or bad way, just how it"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2695.2200000000003,"endTime":2698.79,"body":"you know, impacted your"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2695.2200000000003,"endTime":2698.79,"body":"experience is enormously"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2698.82,"endTime":2703.38,"body":"powerful, because it gives you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2698.82,"endTime":2703.38,"body":"insight into the world around"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2703.38,"endTime":2708.3900000000003,"body":"you. I tell everyone, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2703.38,"endTime":2708.3900000000003,"body":"own experiences your own"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2708.3900000000003,"endTime":2712.7400000000002,"body":"positionality gives you a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2708.3900000000003,"endTime":2712.7400000000002,"body":"valuable but incomplete insight"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2712.7400000000002,"endTime":2717.0600000000004,"body":"into the world. valuable but"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2712.7400000000002,"endTime":2717.0600000000004,"body":"incomplete, right? Everyone is"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2717.0600000000004,"endTime":2720.9,"body":"valuable. Everyone's experiences"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2717.0600000000004,"endTime":2720.9,"body":"are valuable, but no one's"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2720.9,"endTime":2724.23,"body":"experiences are perfectly"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2720.9,"endTime":2724.23,"body":"representative of everything."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2724.98,"endTime":2729.0,"body":"This is why we need to be"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2724.98,"endTime":2729.0,"body":"talking together not to you"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2729.0,"endTime":2732.0,"body":"know, determine who's worthy or"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2729.0,"endTime":2732.0,"body":"not or who's a good person or a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2732.0,"endTime":2735.3900000000003,"body":"bad person. But so we can put"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2732.0,"endTime":2735.3900000000003,"body":"together all of these disparate"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2735.3900000000003,"endTime":2738.84,"body":"pieces of the puzzle and get a"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2735.3900000000003,"endTime":2738.84,"body":"clearer understanding of the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2738.84,"endTime":2742.59,"body":"world around us. Right, it"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2738.84,"endTime":2742.59,"body":"reminds me of this teaching"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2742.59,"endTime":2747.0,"body":"concept called Jigsaw learning,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2742.59,"endTime":2747.0,"body":"where you give a roomful of"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2747.0,"endTime":2750.3900000000003,"body":"students different parts of the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2747.0,"endTime":2750.3900000000003,"body":"problem, and different"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2750.3900000000003,"endTime":2755.07,"body":"information they need, and say,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2750.3900000000003,"endTime":2755.07,"body":"figure it out. And students will"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2755.07,"endTime":2758.4300000000003,"body":"start by themselves and say,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2755.07,"endTime":2758.4300000000003,"body":"there's something wrong here, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2758.4300000000003,"endTime":2762.4500000000003,"body":"can't figure it out. Right. And"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2758.4300000000003,"endTime":2762.4500000000003,"body":"that's by design, it forces them"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2762.4500000000003,"endTime":2766.44,"body":"to come together and share ideas"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2762.4500000000003,"endTime":2766.44,"body":"and share information, and put"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2766.44,"endTime":2768.96,"body":"all of these parts together so"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2766.44,"endTime":2768.96,"body":"that they can figure out the"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2768.96,"endTime":2774.51,"body":"problem, I would say gender, and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2768.96,"endTime":2774.51,"body":"identity in general, is exactly"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2774.51,"endTime":2777.3300000000004,"body":"the same, right? You need to"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2774.51,"endTime":2777.3300000000004,"body":"have everyone coming together"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2777.3300000000004,"endTime":2780.1200000000003,"body":"with their experiences so that"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2777.3300000000004,"endTime":2780.1200000000003,"body":"you can accurately understand"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2780.1200000000003,"endTime":2783.6600000000003,"body":"the state of the organization or"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2780.1200000000003,"endTime":2783.6600000000003,"body":"the state of the department or"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2783.6600000000003,"endTime":2787.0800000000004,"body":"the team or the world even,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2783.6600000000003,"endTime":2787.0800000000004,"body":"right. So you can work together"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2787.0800000000004,"endTime":2791.73,"body":"and problem solve. And I like"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2787.0800000000004,"endTime":2791.73,"body":"thinking about it in this way."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2791.73,"endTime":2794.13,"body":"Because it gives people"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2791.73,"endTime":2794.13,"body":"especially people with"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2794.13,"endTime":2797.61,"body":"privileged identities are really"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2794.13,"endTime":2797.61,"body":"valuable place in this work. It"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2797.61,"endTime":2801.03,"body":"doesn't center them. In fact, it"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2797.61,"endTime":2801.03,"body":"doesn't center anyone. Right? It"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2801.03,"endTime":2805.98,"body":"says simply, we need everyone"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2801.03,"endTime":2805.98,"body":"here to be able to do this work"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2805.98,"endTime":2806.61,"body":"effectively."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2807.27,"endTime":2810.0600000000004,"body":"Yeah, I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2807.27,"endTime":2810.0600000000004,"body":"that. Well, any centers, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2810.0600000000004,"endTime":2813.6600000000003,"body":"work, the outcome, right, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2810.0600000000004,"endTime":2813.6600000000003,"body":"outcome is equity. Its"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2813.6600000000003,"endTime":2818.1000000000004,"body":"inclusion, like, and I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2813.6600000000003,"endTime":2818.1000000000004,"body":"that. I feel like I could say so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2818.1000000000004,"endTime":2822.4500000000003,"body":"much more, but I'm gonna take a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2818.1000000000004,"endTime":2822.4500000000003,"body":"deep breath and control my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2822.4500000000003,"endTime":2826.7400000000002,"body":"desire to have this conversation"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2822.4500000000003,"endTime":2826.7400000000002,"body":"for the next three hours. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2826.7400000000002,"endTime":2831.09,"body":"instead, I'm gonna ask you, if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2826.7400000000002,"endTime":2831.09,"body":"people want to find your book,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2831.1200000000003,"endTime":2835.65,"body":"or more about your work, or even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2831.1200000000003,"endTime":2835.65,"body":"want to book you for training,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2835.6800000000003,"endTime":2838.92,"body":"like how can they get in touch"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2835.6800000000003,"endTime":2838.92,"body":"with you where they can find out"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2838.92,"endTime":2841.11,"body":"more about the wonderful work"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2838.92,"endTime":2841.11,"body":"that you do?"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2841.65,"endTime":2844.8300000000004,"body":"Yeah, well, you can"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2841.65,"endTime":2844.8300000000004,"body":"find me on my website at"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2844.8300000000004,"endTime":2849.0,"body":"lilyzheng.com. And we can"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2844.8300000000004,"endTime":2849.0,"body":"probably put that information in"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2849.0,"endTime":2853.5,"body":"the summary. And you can follow"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2849.0,"endTime":2853.5,"body":"my work most easily on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2854.25,"endTime":2859.02,"body":"Just search me Lily Zheng. And"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2854.25,"endTime":2859.02,"body":"yeah, there's a lot there. I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2859.02,"endTime":2861.75,"body":"post multiple times a week, I"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2859.02,"endTime":2861.75,"body":"put everything I do up on"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2861.75,"endTime":2864.9,"body":"LinkedIn. So those are your best"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2861.75,"endTime":2864.9,"body":"two places to learn more about"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2864.9,"endTime":2868.11,"body":"me and engage with my content."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2864.9,"endTime":2868.11,"body":"And I love getting messages and"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2868.11,"endTime":2870.3300000000004,"body":"DMS from folks, so please reach"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2868.11,"endTime":2870.3300000000004,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2871.1400000000003,"endTime":2873.6000000000004,"body":"That's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2871.1400000000003,"endTime":2873.6000000000004,"body":"Well, thank you so much, Lily,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2873.6000000000004,"endTime":2877.5600000000004,"body":"for coming to gender stories"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2873.6000000000004,"endTime":2877.5600000000004,"body":"today. I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2877.59,"endTime":2880.32,"body":"everything you've shared. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2877.59,"endTime":2880.32,"body":"maybe we'll just have to have a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2880.32,"endTime":2883.59,"body":"part two for all the other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2880.32,"endTime":2883.59,"body":"pieces of the conversation. We"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2883.59,"endTime":2884.6400000000003,"body":"then get to today."},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2884.6400000000003,"endTime":2887.46,"body":"Perhaps perhaps,"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2884.6400000000003,"endTime":2887.46,"body":"yeah, maybe you so much for"},{"speaker":"Lily Zheng","startTime":2887.46,"endTime":2888.09,"body":"having me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2888.21,"endTime":2890.28,"body":"when the next"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2888.21,"endTime":2890.28,"body":"book is out. Well, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2890.28,"endTime":2894.3300000000004,"body":"much for coming today. Thanks."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2890.28,"endTime":2894.3300000000004,"body":"And dear listeners as ever,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2894.3300000000004,"endTime":2897.75,"body":"thank you for supporting gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2894.3300000000004,"endTime":2897.75,"body":"stories. And if you've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2897.75,"endTime":2902.28,"body":"this episode, please share away"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2897.75,"endTime":2902.28,"body":"and by Lily's Book DEI"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2902.28,"endTime":2905.88,"body":"deconstructed and check out"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2902.28,"endTime":2905.88,"body":"their work. Thank you so much."}]}