{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":38.269999999999996,"endTime":42.44,"body":"There's a whole"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":38.269999999999996,"endTime":42.44,"body":"lot of things I want to tell you"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":42.44,"endTime":53.81,"body":"about. Adventures dangerous and"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":42.44,"endTime":53.81,"body":"queer. Some you can guess and"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":53.81,"endTime":63.17,"body":"some I've only hinted at, so"},{"speaker":"Musical Intro","startTime":53.81,"endTime":63.17,"body":"please lend me an ear."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":60.339999999999996,"endTime":62.67999999999999,"body":"Everyone has a"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":60.339999999999996,"endTime":62.67999999999999,"body":"relationship with gender. What's"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":62.67999999999999,"endTime":65.86,"body":"your story? Hello and welcome to"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":62.67999999999999,"endTime":65.86,"body":"Gender stories with your host,"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":65.94999999999999,"endTime":67.53999999999999,"body":"Dr. Alex Iantaffi."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":70.43,"endTime":72.38,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":70.43,"endTime":72.38,"body":"another episode of gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":72.38,"endTime":76.1,"body":"stories. It is my honor and my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":72.38,"endTime":76.1,"body":"pleasure to introduce to you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":76.1,"endTime":80.15,"body":"Redfern Jon Barrett, who is the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":76.1,"endTime":80.15,"body":"other two novels including proud"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":80.15,"endTime":83.99,"body":"things sky is speculative"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":80.15,"endTime":83.99,"body":"stories set in the world's first"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":84.02,"endTime":88.43,"body":"LGBTQ plus state, which has been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":84.02,"endTime":88.43,"body":"released by by waterbucks in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":88.43,"endTime":93.47,"body":"March 2023. Redfern's, essays,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":88.43,"endTime":93.47,"body":"reviews and short stories ever"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":93.47,"endTime":96.53,"body":"appeared in publications"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":93.47,"endTime":96.53,"body":"including the sun magazine,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":96.8,"endTime":101.42,"body":"where Anika strange horizons"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":96.8,"endTime":101.42,"body":"passages North pink news booth"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":101.50999999999999,"endTime":106.88,"body":"FFL, Parsec, orca and nature"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":101.50999999999999,"endTime":106.88,"body":"futures. They are non binary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":106.88,"endTime":111.05,"body":"queer as a PhD in literature and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":106.88,"endTime":111.05,"body":"currently live in Berlin, where"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":111.05,"endTime":115.75999999999999,"body":"actually this book is also set."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":111.05,"endTime":115.75999999999999,"body":"So welcome, welcome red furnace."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":115.75999999999999,"endTime":118.97,"body":"So good to have you on gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":115.75999999999999,"endTime":118.97,"body":"story. Yes, I love the the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":118.97,"endTime":122.39,"body":"physical copy, please do show it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":118.97,"endTime":122.39,"body":"because now we do video as well"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":122.39,"endTime":126.23,"body":"as audio. So there's the book"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":122.39,"endTime":126.23,"body":"has a beautiful cover, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":126.23,"endTime":129.95,"body":"should definitely buy it. It's a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":126.23,"endTime":129.95,"body":"fantastic book, and I can't wait"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":129.95,"endTime":135.74,"body":"to talk with you about it. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":129.95,"endTime":135.74,"body":"let's start with you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":135.74,"endTime":138.26,"body":"read the book and I've got some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":135.74,"endTime":138.26,"body":"questions about it. But let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":138.26,"endTime":142.55,"body":"start by introducing the book to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":138.26,"endTime":142.55,"body":"our listeners and viewers and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.55,"endTime":145.88,"body":"just maybe give them an overview"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.55,"endTime":145.88,"body":"without any spoilers of course,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":145.88,"endTime":147.35,"body":"for those who have not read it."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":147.86,"endTime":151.13,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":147.86,"endTime":151.13,"body":"absolutely. So properly sky is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":151.13,"endTime":156.11,"body":"set in the world's first LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":151.13,"endTime":156.11,"body":"State. It's an alternate Berlin,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":156.29,"endTime":161.18,"body":"and the city is divided into"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":156.29,"endTime":161.18,"body":"different districts. So there's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":161.18,"endTime":163.55,"body":"districts for different"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":161.18,"endTime":163.55,"body":"cultures, different lesbian"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":163.55,"endTime":170.18,"body":"cultures, and then by people,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":163.55,"endTime":170.18,"body":"queer people, trans people and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":170.18,"endTime":174.56,"body":"other people who don't conform"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":170.18,"endTime":174.56,"body":"in various ways, live in slums"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":174.56,"endTime":179.08999999999997,"body":"on the outskirts. And it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":174.56,"endTime":179.08999999999997,"body":"really an exploration of LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":179.08999999999997,"endTime":185.32999999999998,"body":"identities, and the conflicts"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":179.08999999999997,"endTime":185.32999999999998,"body":"and also solidarity that exist"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":185.32999999999998,"endTime":190.49,"body":"between different communities."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":185.32999999999998,"endTime":190.49,"body":"It's also an NP topia novel,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":191.14999999999998,"endTime":195.52999999999997,"body":"which is a concept that I've"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":191.14999999999998,"endTime":195.52999999999997,"body":"been exploring, merging the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":196.61,"endTime":200.63,"body":"breaking down the binary of of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":196.61,"endTime":200.63,"body":"utopia and dystopia in order to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":200.63,"endTime":205.07,"body":"merge the extremes of both and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":200.63,"endTime":205.07,"body":"create something wholly new,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":205.10000000000002,"endTime":210.56,"body":"something that is dramatic and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":205.10000000000002,"endTime":210.56,"body":"has, you know, this utopian"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":210.56,"endTime":215.54000000000002,"body":"dystopian elements, but which"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":210.56,"endTime":215.54000000000002,"body":"isn't dogmatically one way or"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":215.54000000000002,"endTime":218.02999999999997,"body":"the other, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":215.54000000000002,"endTime":218.02999999999997,"body":"honestly the only way to explore"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":218.02999999999997,"endTime":221.66000000000003,"body":"LGBTQ cultures, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":218.02999999999997,"endTime":221.66000000000003,"body":"large, so yeah, it's setting the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":221.66000000000003,"endTime":226.51999999999998,"body":"world's first gay state. It"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":221.66000000000003,"endTime":226.51999999999998,"body":"follows two central characters."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":226.55,"endTime":231.17000000000002,"body":"There's the teenage William,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":226.55,"endTime":231.17000000000002,"body":"who, with his lover, escapes his"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":231.17000000000002,"endTime":236.0,"body":"homophobic home and flees to the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":231.17000000000002,"endTime":236.0,"body":"city and city, who is a young"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":236.0,"endTime":238.79000000000002,"body":"mother of two. And she has been"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":236.0,"endTime":238.79000000000002,"body":"living in the city for six"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":238.79000000000002,"endTime":241.45999999999998,"body":"years, but she's never really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":238.79000000000002,"endTime":241.45999999999998,"body":"explored it. And when the novel"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":241.45999999999998,"endTime":244.49,"body":"starts, she starts to get more"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":241.45999999999998,"endTime":244.49,"body":"curious about the city. And when"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":244.49,"endTime":249.74,"body":"her family is caught in a riot,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":244.49,"endTime":249.74,"body":"she becomes she finds it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":251.77999999999997,"endTime":252.76999999999998,"body":"that's okay."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":253.88,"endTime":256.34,"body":"Yeah, she"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":253.88,"endTime":256.34,"body":"she's drawn to find out what's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":256.34,"endTime":257.87,"body":"going on. And to explore this."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":260.0,"endTime":263.48,"body":"I love it that I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":260.0,"endTime":263.48,"body":"am so excited for those of you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":263.51,"endTime":267.68,"body":"who have not read this novel yet"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":263.51,"endTime":267.68,"body":"you're in for a treat. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":267.68,"endTime":270.62,"body":"really really good. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":267.68,"endTime":270.62,"body":"gripping. You know, when I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":270.62,"endTime":273.77,"body":"picked it up, couldn't put it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":270.62,"endTime":273.77,"body":"down. I just wanted to know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":273.77,"endTime":278.54,"body":"everything that happened to the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":273.77,"endTime":278.54,"body":"character, so I highly recommend"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":278.54,"endTime":282.59,"body":"reading it and and I love that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":278.54,"endTime":282.59,"body":"you mentioned that challenging"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":282.59,"endTime":285.89,"body":"that dystopian Utopia binary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":282.59,"endTime":285.89,"body":"because actually, that was one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":285.89,"endTime":289.73,"body":"of my questions. Like, why did"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":285.89,"endTime":289.73,"body":"you feel it was important to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":289.88,"endTime":294.08,"body":"challenge the binary construct"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":289.88,"endTime":294.08,"body":"in speculative fiction of Utopia"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":294.08,"endTime":299.09000000000003,"body":"versus dystopia? Like what made"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":294.08,"endTime":299.09000000000003,"body":"it feel like? Yeah, why not go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":299.09000000000003,"endTime":302.21000000000004,"body":"into one of the traditional"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":299.09000000000003,"endTime":302.21000000000004,"body":"directions? Let's call them of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":302.21000000000004,"endTime":305.3,"body":"utopia and dystopia and go for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":302.21000000000004,"endTime":305.3,"body":"this and be topia, I think you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":305.3,"endTime":306.08,"body":"called it right."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":306.439,"endTime":309.499,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":306.439,"endTime":309.499,"body":"Yeah. And what have you, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":309.499,"endTime":312.67900000000003,"body":"know, I really love both utopia"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":309.499,"endTime":312.67900000000003,"body":"and dystopia. I'm not like anti"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":312.85900000000004,"endTime":319.069,"body":"genres. And, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":312.85900000000004,"endTime":319.069,"body":"written dystopian short stories"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":319.069,"endTime":323.269,"body":"before. I mean, I've written"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":319.069,"endTime":323.269,"body":"books of dystopia. But I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":323.269,"endTime":325.969,"body":"that each of them have like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":323.269,"endTime":325.969,"body":"their own limitations, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":326.029,"endTime":329.809,"body":"and I think there's sometimes"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":326.029,"endTime":329.809,"body":"not obvious for utopia. You"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":329.809,"endTime":332.269,"body":"know, I think we don't get a lot"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":329.809,"endTime":332.269,"body":"of works of utopian fiction"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":332.269,"endTime":336.829,"body":"because I'm It can be quite a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":332.269,"endTime":336.829,"body":"rigid thing, you know, to, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":336.829,"endTime":339.439,"body":"know, no one's really going to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":336.829,"endTime":339.439,"body":"agree on what a perfect world"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":339.439,"endTime":343.219,"body":"actually is. And also, that's a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":339.439,"endTime":343.219,"body":"society that can never change,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":343.249,"endTime":347.599,"body":"you know, that is permanently"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":343.249,"endTime":347.599,"body":"fixed. And also just, it can be"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":347.599,"endTime":350.689,"body":"difficult to write utopia, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":347.599,"endTime":350.689,"body":"know, like, finding conflict and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":350.689,"endTime":355.60900000000004,"body":"drama within that setting. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":350.689,"endTime":355.60900000000004,"body":"dystopia, you know, is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":355.60900000000004,"endTime":359.689,"body":"fun. And I really, really enjoy"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":355.60900000000004,"endTime":359.689,"body":"writing dystopia. But the issue"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":359.689,"endTime":364.189,"body":"with dystopia is I don't think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":359.689,"endTime":364.189,"body":"that it's as socially useful as"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":365.869,"endTime":368.41900000000004,"body":"as a genre. You know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":365.869,"endTime":368.41900000000004,"body":"think that, you know, we think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":368.41900000000004,"endTime":371.389,"body":"of dystopia as warnings. And I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":368.41900000000004,"endTime":371.389,"body":"think that implicitly, we think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":371.389,"endTime":375.619,"body":"of dystopia as protecting us"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":371.389,"endTime":375.619,"body":"against the scenarios that they"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":375.619,"endTime":378.589,"body":"show, you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":375.619,"endTime":378.589,"body":"necessarily think of it overtly"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":378.589,"endTime":383.17900000000003,"body":"in that way. But, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":378.589,"endTime":383.17900000000003,"body":"idea that these warnings can can"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":383.17900000000003,"endTime":387.73900000000003,"body":"help protect us from the future."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":383.17900000000003,"endTime":387.73900000000003,"body":"And I don't think that's really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":387.769,"endTime":390.229,"body":"the case. You know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":387.769,"endTime":390.229,"body":"think that I would say, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":390.229,"endTime":395.149,"body":"know, I don't think that 1984"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":390.229,"endTime":395.149,"body":"really did much, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":395.17900000000003,"endTime":397.879,"body":"combat the surveillance state,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":395.17900000000003,"endTime":397.879,"body":"you know, it didn't stop it. I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":397.879,"endTime":398.209,"body":"mean,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":399.47,"endTime":400.46000000000004,"body":"it doesn't seem"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":399.47,"endTime":400.46000000000004,"body":"to have"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":402.619,"endTime":404.389,"body":"much as I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":402.619,"endTime":404.389,"body":"love cyberpunk, and prepping"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":404.389,"endTime":409.519,"body":"skies work of cyberpunk. It's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":404.389,"endTime":409.519,"body":"portraying these kind of hyper"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":409.519,"endTime":412.639,"body":"capitalist futures, hasn't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":409.519,"endTime":412.639,"body":"really done much to stop the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":412.639,"endTime":418.309,"body":"momentum of, you know, sort of,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":412.639,"endTime":418.309,"body":"you know, these kind of like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":418.339,"endTime":424.069,"body":"distorted economic realities"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":418.339,"endTime":424.069,"body":"happening. And I think that what"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":424.069,"endTime":426.949,"body":"actually happens when we write"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":424.069,"endTime":426.949,"body":"speculative fiction, and when we"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":426.949,"endTime":431.689,"body":"write the future, I think that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":426.949,"endTime":431.689,"body":"we bring it closer into being I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":431.689,"endTime":435.889,"body":"think we change people's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":431.689,"endTime":435.889,"body":"expectations of the future. So"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":436.099,"endTime":440.659,"body":"if we're to write a future"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":436.099,"endTime":440.659,"body":"scenario in which the government"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":440.659,"endTime":443.809,"body":"is overbearing, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":440.659,"endTime":443.809,"body":"authoritarian, and other people"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":443.809,"endTime":447.349,"body":"pick up on that and create works"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":443.809,"endTime":447.349,"body":"that the same when you grow up"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":447.349,"endTime":450.139,"body":"without gives the idea that that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":447.349,"endTime":450.139,"body":"is what the future is gonna be,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":450.469,"endTime":452.389,"body":"you know, and if we it's the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":450.469,"endTime":452.389,"body":"same whether it you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":452.41900000000004,"endTime":456.019,"body":"whether the future is kind of a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":452.41900000000004,"endTime":456.019,"body":"polluted wasteland in, we almost"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":456.139,"endTime":460.66900000000004,"body":"stem start to think of the world"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":456.139,"endTime":460.66900000000004,"body":"in a couple of centuries, time"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":460.66900000000004,"endTime":464.92900000000003,"body":"has just been that, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":460.66900000000004,"endTime":464.92900000000003,"body":"whereas Utopia can inspire, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":464.92900000000003,"endTime":468.289,"body":"think that dystopia, like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":464.92900000000003,"endTime":468.289,"body":"likewise manages our"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":468.289,"endTime":473.17900000000003,"body":"expectations, you know, and kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":468.289,"endTime":473.17900000000003,"body":"of drags them down into in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":473.17900000000003,"endTime":478.099,"body":"visiting futures that are darker"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":473.17900000000003,"endTime":478.099,"body":"and bleaker. So what I think is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":478.219,"endTime":480.16900000000004,"body":"really want to do with what I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":478.219,"endTime":480.16900000000004,"body":"really want to do with Danby"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":480.16900000000004,"endTime":486.67900000000003,"body":"topia is use the useful things"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":480.16900000000004,"endTime":486.67900000000003,"body":"about dystopia, for example, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":486.67900000000003,"endTime":493.039,"body":"know, these kinds of like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":486.67900000000003,"endTime":493.039,"body":"analysis of society, and what"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":493.039,"endTime":495.649,"body":"could go wrong, what is going"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":493.039,"endTime":495.649,"body":"wrong, and extrapolate on that,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":496.009,"endTime":498.85900000000004,"body":"and take the elements of Utopia"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":496.009,"endTime":498.85900000000004,"body":"the elements that can give us"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":498.85900000000004,"endTime":501.949,"body":"hope, the elements that show"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":498.85900000000004,"endTime":501.949,"body":"what is good about our species,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":501.949,"endTime":505.069,"body":"and how things can get better,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":501.949,"endTime":505.069,"body":"and to interweave the two of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":505.069,"endTime":508.879,"body":"them, you know, in order to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":505.069,"endTime":508.879,"body":"create fiction that is both"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":509.089,"endTime":513.139,"body":"inspiring, but also deals with"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":509.089,"endTime":513.139,"body":"our real problems. And I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":513.139,"endTime":514.909,"body":"that that's something especially"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":513.139,"endTime":514.909,"body":"important for marginalized"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":514.909,"endTime":517.8489999999999,"body":"people. Because, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":514.909,"endTime":517.8489999999999,"body":"think it's very, very difficult"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":517.8489999999999,"endTime":522.799,"body":"for marginalized people often to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":517.8489999999999,"endTime":522.799,"body":"connect with utopia, because it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":522.799,"endTime":525.4689999999999,"body":"doesn't recognize our struggles"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":522.799,"endTime":525.4689999999999,"body":"that we go through, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":525.4689999999999,"endTime":529.7289999999999,"body":"recognize the suffering that we"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":525.4689999999999,"endTime":529.7289999999999,"body":"often experience, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":529.7289999999999,"endTime":531.9789999999999,"body":"I think that can make it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":529.7289999999999,"endTime":531.9789999999999,"body":"difficult, at least for me to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":531.9789999999999,"endTime":534.9789999999999,"body":"relate to, you know, your dress"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":531.9789999999999,"endTime":534.9789999999999,"body":"like this, you know, I often get"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":535.999,"endTime":541.459,"body":"trouble on the street, and I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":535.999,"endTime":541.459,"body":"can't really properly connect"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":541.459,"endTime":544.129,"body":"with realities that don't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":541.459,"endTime":544.129,"body":"recognize that kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":544.129,"endTime":546.6189999999999,"body":"oppression. But at the same"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":544.129,"endTime":546.6189999999999,"body":"time, you don't want to wallow"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":546.6189999999999,"endTime":550.159,"body":"in it, you know. So I think that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":546.6189999999999,"endTime":550.159,"body":"mix of hope and critique is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":550.159,"endTime":553.309,"body":"really, really central to NP"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":550.159,"endTime":553.309,"body":"topia, and what I think can be"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":553.309,"endTime":554.389,"body":"totally can be useful."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":556.13,"endTime":558.92,"body":"I love that. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":556.13,"endTime":558.92,"body":"I love them paraphrasing what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":558.92,"endTime":562.0999999999999,"body":"you said, I think, but you said"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":558.92,"endTime":562.0999999999999,"body":"it much more beautifully. About"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":562.0999999999999,"endTime":564.56,"body":"when we write the future, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":562.0999999999999,"endTime":564.56,"body":"know, we're also kind of bring"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":564.56,"endTime":568.37,"body":"into being in some ways, and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":564.56,"endTime":568.37,"body":"kind of got chills when you said"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":568.37,"endTime":572.51,"body":"that. And I thought, yes, really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":568.37,"endTime":572.51,"body":"made me think about how, in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":572.51,"endTime":577.28,"body":"way or fear collective here, as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":572.51,"endTime":577.28,"body":"expressed itself in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":577.28,"endTime":580.79,"body":"dystopian, really seeing the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":577.28,"endTime":580.79,"body":"rise of even dystopian"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":580.79,"endTime":583.6999999999999,"body":"narratives in dominant culture,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":580.79,"endTime":583.6999999999999,"body":"you know, through Hollywood"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":583.6999999999999,"endTime":587.4799999999999,"body":"movies and TV series, like The"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":583.6999999999999,"endTime":587.4799999999999,"body":"Last of Us hands on, I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":587.4799999999999,"endTime":592.0699999999999,"body":"it's really a manifestation of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":587.4799999999999,"endTime":592.0699999999999,"body":"how overwhelmed and afraid a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":592.0699999999999,"endTime":596.5699999999999,"body":"of us are about the future. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":592.0699999999999,"endTime":596.5699999999999,"body":"so in a way, it was really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":596.5699999999999,"endTime":600.2299999999999,"body":"refreshing to read this and have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":596.5699999999999,"endTime":600.2299999999999,"body":"ambi topia normal, where things"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":600.2299999999999,"endTime":603.53,"body":"were messy, you know, what I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":600.2299999999999,"endTime":603.53,"body":"mean, things are not easy to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":603.53,"endTime":607.43,"body":"see. And, and I love that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":603.53,"endTime":607.43,"body":"because life is messy. And so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":607.43,"endTime":611.4499999999999,"body":"let's talk about speculative"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":607.43,"endTime":611.4499999999999,"body":"fiction as a medium for a moment"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":611.4499999999999,"endTime":615.9499999999999,"body":"if that's okay. In and I really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":611.4499999999999,"endTime":615.9499999999999,"body":"think that speculative fiction,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":615.9799999999999,"endTime":618.62,"body":"I don't think it's an accident"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":615.9799999999999,"endTime":618.62,"body":"that there are so many queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":618.62,"endTime":623.3299999999999,"body":"folks in speculative fiction,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":618.62,"endTime":623.3299999999999,"body":"right. I think it really gives"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":623.3299999999999,"endTime":627.29,"body":"us an opportunity to like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":623.3299999999999,"endTime":627.29,"body":"expand, explore, imagining, even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":627.29,"endTime":631.2199999999999,"body":"heal sometime, right. And so I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":627.29,"endTime":631.2199999999999,"body":"know you said a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":631.7299999999999,"endTime":634.5799999999999,"body":"your feelings about the Soca"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":631.7299999999999,"endTime":634.5799999999999,"body":"versus you Dope. Yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":634.5799999999999,"endTime":638.0899999999999,"body":"what's your relationship to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":634.5799999999999,"endTime":638.0899999999999,"body":"speculative fiction as a genre"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":638.12,"endTime":638.87,"body":"in general?"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":641.15,"endTime":643.4,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":641.15,"endTime":643.4,"body":"like, as, like a lot of queer"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":643.4,"endTime":648.1999999999999,"body":"people, I think that we kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":643.4,"endTime":648.1999999999999,"body":"need speculative fiction,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":648.2299999999999,"endTime":652.52,"body":"especially, you know, in moments"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":648.2299999999999,"endTime":652.52,"body":"that do seem particularly dark,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":652.55,"endTime":658.04,"body":"you know, when homo queer and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":652.55,"endTime":658.04,"body":"transphobia are all on the rise."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":659.18,"endTime":663.41,"body":"And I think that we need to, it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":659.18,"endTime":663.41,"body":"helps us to think about future"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":663.41,"endTime":667.55,"body":"possibilities. And you know, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":663.41,"endTime":667.55,"body":"think that that, and it's a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":667.55,"endTime":669.8299999999999,"body":"relationship that can be"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":667.55,"endTime":669.8299999999999,"body":"difficult and complex, for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":669.8299999999999,"endTime":673.9699999999999,"body":"example, you know, like, one of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":669.8299999999999,"endTime":673.9699999999999,"body":"my favorite novels, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":673.9699999999999,"endTime":677.0899999999999,"body":"a teenager was The Handmaid's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":673.9699999999999,"endTime":677.0899999999999,"body":"Tale, and, but I couldn't bring"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":677.0899999999999,"endTime":680.15,"body":"myself to finish watching the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":677.0899999999999,"endTime":680.15,"body":"show, because you know, that the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":680.15,"endTime":684.41,"body":"current environment I can't deal"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":680.15,"endTime":684.41,"body":"with, with watching a show in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":684.41,"endTime":688.52,"body":"which I would be dead, and my"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":684.41,"endTime":688.52,"body":"friends would be dead, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":688.52,"endTime":692.3299999999999,"body":"that a future that doesn't even"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":688.52,"endTime":692.3299999999999,"body":"include us. And, of course,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":692.3299999999999,"endTime":695.93,"body":"that's not a critique of Atwoods"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":692.3299999999999,"endTime":695.93,"body":"work, it is important, and it is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":695.93,"endTime":701.81,"body":"something that's that's had a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":695.93,"endTime":701.81,"body":"huge impact. But I think that we"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":701.81,"endTime":706.04,"body":"really, really need kind of a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":701.81,"endTime":706.04,"body":"level of inspiration, we have to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":706.04,"endTime":708.9499999999999,"body":"look to the future. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":706.04,"endTime":708.9499999999999,"body":"think as well as something that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":708.9799999999999,"endTime":714.1099999999999,"body":"a lot of marginalized groups,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":708.9799999999999,"endTime":714.1099999999999,"body":"likewise need is to actually"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":714.1099999999999,"endTime":717.26,"body":"look forward and say, What can"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":714.1099999999999,"endTime":717.26,"body":"we build? What do we want? You"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":717.26,"endTime":721.76,"body":"know, it's an important part of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":717.26,"endTime":721.76,"body":"activism. And also, I think,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":721.76,"endTime":725.03,"body":"just just getting through the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":721.76,"endTime":725.03,"body":"day, you know, for queer people"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":725.03,"endTime":729.3499999999999,"body":"to think of worlds that could"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":725.03,"endTime":729.3499999999999,"body":"be, you know, better or at least"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":729.3499999999999,"endTime":733.43,"body":"different from the one in which"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":729.3499999999999,"endTime":733.43,"body":"we live. And it's not pure"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":733.43,"endTime":735.9799999999999,"body":"escapism, that's an important"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":733.43,"endTime":735.9799999999999,"body":"thing as well, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":735.9799999999999,"endTime":738.68,"body":"not like we just want to only"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":735.9799999999999,"endTime":738.68,"body":"side up I don't just want to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":739.16,"endTime":742.0699999999999,"body":"vanish into another world and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":739.16,"endTime":742.0699999999999,"body":"forget about this one as fun as"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":742.0699999999999,"endTime":746.5699999999999,"body":"that can be. It's, it's to find"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":742.0699999999999,"endTime":746.5699999999999,"body":"inspiration, I think. And I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":746.5699999999999,"endTime":749.06,"body":"think that's why so many queer"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":746.5699999999999,"endTime":749.06,"body":"people are drawn to speculative"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":749.06,"endTime":753.1099999999999,"body":"fiction because their futures in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":749.06,"endTime":753.1099999999999,"body":"which or they're often futures"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":753.1099999999999,"endTime":758.9,"body":"in which we can have more agency"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":753.1099999999999,"endTime":758.9,"body":"and less harm, I think, and for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":758.9,"endTime":762.1099999999999,"body":"me, that's, that's something"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":758.9,"endTime":762.1099999999999,"body":"that, you know, whether it's I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":762.1099999999999,"endTime":766.64,"body":"read recently, cat Rambo's, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":762.1099999999999,"endTime":766.64,"body":"sexy thing, and I just loved it."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":766.64,"endTime":771.2299999999999,"body":"You know, it's just this, this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":766.64,"endTime":771.2299999999999,"body":"world in which sexuality, gender"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":771.2299999999999,"endTime":774.2299999999999,"body":"identity, and everything is so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":771.2299999999999,"endTime":774.2299999999999,"body":"much more fluid. I felt the same"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":774.2299999999999,"endTime":778.0999999999999,"body":"with Becky Chambers as work"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":774.2299999999999,"endTime":778.0999999999999,"body":"recently. And yeah, and I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":778.13,"endTime":780.17,"body":"that's something that can itself"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":778.13,"endTime":780.17,"body":"be really easy."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":781.6089999999999,"endTime":785.029,"body":"Absolutely. Oh, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":781.6089999999999,"endTime":785.029,"body":"have so many thoughts going on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":785.029,"endTime":788.8389999999999,"body":"right now. But let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":785.029,"endTime":788.8389999999999,"body":"the timing of your novel."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":788.8389999999999,"endTime":792.169,"body":"Because just the other day, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":788.8389999999999,"endTime":792.169,"body":"know, I was on Twitter, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":792.169,"endTime":795.709,"body":"somebody was like, and again, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":792.169,"endTime":795.709,"body":"don't remember the exact words,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":795.709,"endTime":799.2489999999999,"body":"but you know, that we did"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":795.709,"endTime":799.2489999999999,"body":"something like I think I'm ready"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":799.2489999999999,"endTime":803.269,"body":"to talk about kind of a LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":799.2489999999999,"endTime":803.269,"body":"Plastination, right. And I found"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":803.269,"endTime":806.3589999999999,"body":"a view immediately, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":803.269,"endTime":806.3589999999999,"body":"like, Oh, I've just been reading"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":806.3589999999999,"endTime":812.329,"body":"about that quite recently. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":806.3589999999999,"endTime":812.329,"body":"so yes, during this kind of what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":812.329,"endTime":816.079,"body":"I would call the rise of fascism"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":812.329,"endTime":816.079,"body":"in many countries, including"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":816.409,"endTime":820.549,"body":"where I'm located now, the US my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":816.409,"endTime":820.549,"body":"home country of Italy, I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":820.549,"endTime":823.7589999999999,"body":"the UK also seeing kind of a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":820.549,"endTime":823.7589999999999,"body":"rise of we can call it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":824.149,"endTime":828.3489999999999,"body":"conservativism. Fascism, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":824.149,"endTime":828.3489999999999,"body":"whatever we call it, there is a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":828.3489999999999,"endTime":832.0989999999999,"body":"lot of anti queer and anti"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":828.3489999999999,"endTime":832.0989999999999,"body":"trans, especially sentiment."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":833.179,"endTime":837.409,"body":"Yeah, the timing of your novel,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":833.179,"endTime":837.409,"body":"in a way seems pretty attuned to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":837.409,"endTime":840.4689999999999,"body":"the Times did that have an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":837.409,"endTime":840.4689999999999,"body":"influence? Like the current"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":840.4689999999999,"endTime":844.9689999999999,"body":"socio political, cultural"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":840.4689999999999,"endTime":844.9689999999999,"body":"environment on your decision to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":845.029,"endTime":847.699,"body":"write this novel? Or did the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":845.029,"endTime":847.699,"body":"inspiration come from somewhere"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":847.699,"endTime":851.6289999999999,"body":"else? But I'm just curious about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":847.699,"endTime":851.6289999999999,"body":"the relationship to this time,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":851.6289999999999,"endTime":852.649,"body":"if that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":853.25,"endTime":854.9599999999999,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":853.25,"endTime":854.9599999999999,"body":"mean, the timing, something that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":854.9599999999999,"endTime":861.62,"body":"is really kind of coincidental."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":854.9599999999999,"endTime":861.62,"body":"I don't want to say, fortunate"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":861.62,"endTime":864.7099999999999,"body":"because it's not a fortunate"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":861.62,"endTime":864.7099999999999,"body":"situation. But actually started"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":864.7099999999999,"endTime":868.67,"body":"writing this novel 10 years ago."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":864.7099999999999,"endTime":868.67,"body":"And when I started writing, it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":868.67,"endTime":873.41,"body":"was a short story. And, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":868.67,"endTime":873.41,"body":"know, I sent out some places and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":873.41,"endTime":876.8299999999999,"body":"I got this kind of consistent"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":873.41,"endTime":876.8299999999999,"body":"response that this is, this is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":876.8299999999999,"endTime":879.89,"body":"too big a setting for short"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":876.8299999999999,"endTime":879.89,"body":"story that it's, it would do"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":879.89,"endTime":883.1899999999999,"body":"with being longer. So yeah, then"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":879.89,"endTime":883.1899999999999,"body":"over 10 years, I wrote it and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":883.1899999999999,"endTime":887.7199999999999,"body":"rewrote it. And it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":883.1899999999999,"endTime":887.7199999999999,"body":"something that's been influenced"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":887.7199999999999,"endTime":892.13,"body":"as time has gone by, by recent"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":887.7199999999999,"endTime":892.13,"body":"events, but its core, the novel"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":892.13,"endTime":897.02,"body":"was always critiquing what I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":892.13,"endTime":897.02,"body":"what I like to call kind of the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":897.02,"endTime":899.4799999999999,"body":"nesting dolls of hate for a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":897.02,"endTime":899.4799999999999,"body":"start, you know, this idea of,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":899.78,"endTime":904.25,"body":"of taking out your own"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":899.78,"endTime":904.25,"body":"oppression onto people who have"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":904.25,"endTime":909.8599999999999,"body":"even potentially even less power"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":904.25,"endTime":909.8599999999999,"body":"than you do. And, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":909.8599999999999,"endTime":912.02,"body":"was something that I saw ever"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":909.8599999999999,"endTime":912.02,"body":"since I was 18 years old, that's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":912.05,"endTime":915.0799999999999,"body":"when, you know, when I first"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":912.05,"endTime":915.0799999999999,"body":"went to university and got"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":915.0799999999999,"endTime":919.67,"body":"involved with, you know, sort of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":915.0799999999999,"endTime":919.67,"body":"LGBTQ activism, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":919.67,"endTime":921.9799999999999,"body":"immediately you know, of course,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":919.67,"endTime":921.9799999999999,"body":"encountered a lot of lovely"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":921.9799999999999,"endTime":924.3199999999999,"body":"people and a lot of very"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":921.9799999999999,"endTime":924.3199999999999,"body":"tolerant and supportive people"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":924.3199999999999,"endTime":927.29,"body":"as always exist in queer"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":924.3199999999999,"endTime":927.29,"body":"communities. But at the same"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":927.29,"endTime":929.3599999999999,"body":"time I encountered you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":927.29,"endTime":929.3599999999999,"body":"immediately that kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":929.3599999999999,"endTime":934.52,"body":"transphobia by phobia and I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":929.3599999999999,"endTime":934.52,"body":"believe hassled me because it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":934.52,"endTime":938.06,"body":"was like, you know, why? Why do"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":934.52,"endTime":938.06,"body":"this? You know, we've we've been"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":938.06,"endTime":941.0,"body":"like invalidated ourselves."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":938.06,"endTime":941.0,"body":"We've come under, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":941.75,"endTime":944.2099999999999,"body":"pressure and attacks ourselves."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":941.75,"endTime":944.2099999999999,"body":"Like, why would you continue"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":944.2099999999999,"endTime":947.66,"body":"this? And I've seen it kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":944.2099999999999,"endTime":947.66,"body":"over and over, you know, both in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":947.66,"endTime":951.29,"body":"Britain, I've seen it here in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":947.66,"endTime":951.29,"body":"Berlin. And I couldn't really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":951.29,"endTime":954.38,"body":"not write about it, because it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":951.29,"endTime":954.38,"body":"something that has always kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":954.38,"endTime":957.53,"body":"of fascinated me like, What is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":954.38,"endTime":957.53,"body":"this need? Where did where does"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":957.53,"endTime":959.66,"body":"it come from? And I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":957.53,"endTime":959.66,"body":"of different places, which is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":959.66,"endTime":965.93,"body":"what I wanted to explore in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":959.66,"endTime":965.93,"body":"propping sky. But yeah, so it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":965.93,"endTime":972.1999999999999,"body":"kind of it is kind of helpful, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":965.93,"endTime":972.1999999999999,"body":"think, in the way that it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":972.1999999999999,"endTime":975.1099999999999,"body":"coming out now as things are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":972.1999999999999,"endTime":975.1099999999999,"body":"kind of coming to a head because"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":975.1099999999999,"endTime":979.43,"body":"I think it is more important"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":975.1099999999999,"endTime":979.43,"body":"than ever, that queer and trans"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":979.43,"endTime":983.5699999999999,"body":"online fiction actually is out"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":979.43,"endTime":983.5699999999999,"body":"there. Because I think that at"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":983.5699999999999,"endTime":987.26,"body":"the moment, there is this kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":983.5699999999999,"endTime":987.26,"body":"of battle of people's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":987.26,"endTime":991.4599999999999,"body":"perceptions of LGBTQ people. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":987.26,"endTime":991.4599999999999,"body":"I really, really think that we"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":991.4599999999999,"endTime":993.5899999999999,"body":"need to, and we don't get a lot"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":991.4599999999999,"endTime":993.5899999999999,"body":"of chance to tell our stories,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":993.5899999999999,"endTime":996.29,"body":"to be perfectly honest. Like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":993.5899999999999,"endTime":996.29,"body":"the media generally isn't very"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":996.29,"endTime":998.5699999999999,"body":"interested in talking to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":996.29,"endTime":998.5699999999999,"body":"actually queer and trans people."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1000.49,"endTime":1003.76,"body":"It's always a bunch of streets"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1000.49,"endTime":1003.76,"body":"before talking about us to each"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1003.76,"endTime":1008.38,"body":"others. It's always been. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1003.76,"endTime":1008.38,"body":"yeah, sorry. So I think I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1008.38,"endTime":1011.77,"body":"prepping sky is is has come"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1008.38,"endTime":1011.77,"body":"about at an opportune moment."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1011.8,"endTime":1012.79,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1013.63,"endTime":1016.66,"body":"Yeah. And you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1013.63,"endTime":1016.66,"body":"talked about inspiration, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1016.66,"endTime":1020.8299999999999,"body":"with speculative fiction. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1016.66,"endTime":1020.8299999999999,"body":"curious about, was there an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1020.8299999999999,"endTime":1025.21,"body":"intention of what you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1020.8299999999999,"endTime":1025.21,"body":"inspire in the reader with proud"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1025.21,"endTime":1028.81,"body":"pink sky? You know, and as the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1025.21,"endTime":1028.81,"body":"vision changed over the 10 years"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1028.81,"endTime":1030.04,"body":"of writing the novel?"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1031.63,"endTime":1037.15,"body":"Um, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1031.63,"endTime":1037.15,"body":"mean, this kind of ties back to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1037.15,"endTime":1039.46,"body":"me topia, again, because I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1037.15,"endTime":1039.46,"body":"part of the reason that I don't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1039.46,"endTime":1044.5,"body":"feel very comfortable writing"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1039.46,"endTime":1044.5,"body":"utopia is, I don't want to hand"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1044.5,"endTime":1049.06,"body":"the reader my idea of a perfect"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1044.5,"endTime":1049.06,"body":"world. And this is how things"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1049.06,"endTime":1054.1,"body":"should be. And this is kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1049.06,"endTime":1054.1,"body":"similar message, you know, there"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1054.1,"endTime":1057.46,"body":"are things that I want to want"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1054.1,"endTime":1057.46,"body":"to explore myself. And I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1057.46,"endTime":1060.49,"body":"that's really where my"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1057.46,"endTime":1060.49,"body":"inspiration for writing"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1060.49,"endTime":1064.84,"body":"generally comes from, is, I get"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1060.49,"endTime":1064.84,"body":"really curious about certain"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1064.84,"endTime":1067.87,"body":"scenarios, certain aspects of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1064.84,"endTime":1067.87,"body":"humanity, and then I want to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1067.87,"endTime":1070.03,"body":"explore it for myself, and then"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1067.87,"endTime":1070.03,"body":"hope that other people do as"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1070.03,"endTime":1074.8899999999999,"body":"well. So there's not like one"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1070.03,"endTime":1074.8899999999999,"body":"particular message beyond, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1074.8899999999999,"endTime":1077.98,"body":"know, kind of, I'm a very firm"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1074.8899999999999,"endTime":1077.98,"body":"believer in solidarity, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1077.98,"endTime":1081.73,"body":"know, I think it's really,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1077.98,"endTime":1081.73,"body":"really important, especially"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1081.73,"endTime":1088.1499999999999,"body":"because the forces that are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1081.73,"endTime":1088.1499999999999,"body":"faced by minorities are very,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1088.1499999999999,"endTime":1092.53,"body":"very large, very well funded,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1088.1499999999999,"endTime":1092.53,"body":"and very well organized. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1092.86,"endTime":1095.86,"body":"without solidarity, I really,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1092.86,"endTime":1095.86,"body":"really fear for the future. So"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1095.86,"endTime":1098.47,"body":"that is a message that I want to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1095.86,"endTime":1098.47,"body":"get across. But the actual"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1098.47,"endTime":1102.76,"body":"details of those things are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1098.47,"endTime":1102.76,"body":"something that I wanted to, for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1102.76,"endTime":1105.79,"body":"the reader to kind of interpret"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1102.76,"endTime":1105.79,"body":"themselves. And so there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1105.79,"endTime":1109.3899999999999,"body":"of characters in prepping skies"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1105.79,"endTime":1109.3899999999999,"body":"with a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1109.3899999999999,"endTime":1114.55,"body":"viewpoints. And I kind of didn't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1109.3899999999999,"endTime":1114.55,"body":"want any one of them necessarily"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1114.55,"endTime":1117.22,"body":"to dominate, but to have this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1114.55,"endTime":1117.22,"body":"kind of collection of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1117.22,"endTime":1122.3799999999999,"body":"experiences in the novel, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1117.22,"endTime":1122.3799999999999,"body":"what it really means to be gay,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1122.3799999999999,"endTime":1124.3,"body":"lesbian, bi, trans or queer."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1125.68,"endTime":1128.29,"body":"Yeah, and one of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1125.68,"endTime":1128.29,"body":"the things that it's really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1128.29,"endTime":1131.29,"body":"interesting, even in the opening"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1128.29,"endTime":1131.29,"body":"of the novel, where you have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1131.32,"endTime":1134.9199999999998,"body":"that just this little guide to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1131.32,"endTime":1134.9199999999998,"body":"this alternative, we're laying"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1134.9199999999998,"endTime":1138.6699999999998,"body":"right is that you're, you're the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1134.9199999999998,"endTime":1138.6699999999998,"body":"gay district, you're the lesbian"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1138.6699999999998,"endTime":1143.4099999999999,"body":"district, or bisexuality was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1138.6699999999998,"endTime":1143.4099999999999,"body":"made legal in 1969, or something"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1143.4099999999999,"endTime":1146.11,"body":"like that. I think in the novel,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1143.4099999999999,"endTime":1146.11,"body":"I don't know if I remember the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1146.11,"endTime":1152.86,"body":"year Exactly. But I was curious"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1146.11,"endTime":1152.86,"body":"about the role of identities"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1152.8899999999999,"endTime":1157.3899999999999,"body":"that challenge binaries, whether"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1152.8899999999999,"endTime":1157.3899999999999,"body":"it is kind of cisgender ism, so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1157.3899999999999,"endTime":1162.1599999999999,"body":"the gender binary, or the binary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1157.3899999999999,"endTime":1162.1599999999999,"body":"of gay versus lesbian, and what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1162.1599999999999,"endTime":1167.23,"body":"happens when that also becomes a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1162.1599999999999,"endTime":1167.23,"body":"challenging of power in this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1167.23,"endTime":1172.03,"body":"alternative, kind of world? And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1167.23,"endTime":1172.03,"body":"so I hope I'm making sense. Does"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1172.03,"endTime":1172.72,"body":"that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1173.29,"endTime":1176.35,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1173.29,"endTime":1176.35,"body":"think the challenging binaries"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1176.3799999999999,"endTime":1181.33,"body":"is always to challenge power and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1176.3799999999999,"endTime":1181.33,"body":"power structures. Because power"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1181.33,"endTime":1185.62,"body":"relies on binaries, it relies on"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1181.33,"endTime":1185.62,"body":"in groups and out groups. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1185.6499999999999,"endTime":1190.72,"body":"especially since the 19th"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1185.6499999999999,"endTime":1190.72,"body":"century, we've really, really a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1190.72,"endTime":1194.23,"body":"society has kind of gone all out"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1190.72,"endTime":1194.23,"body":"on categorizing people and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1195.07,"endTime":1200.59,"body":"placing them in boxes. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1195.07,"endTime":1200.59,"body":"that's something that has become"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1200.59,"endTime":1204.01,"body":"core to people's conceptions of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1200.59,"endTime":1204.01,"body":"identity is that they have this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1204.01,"endTime":1207.25,"body":"very, very fixed idea of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1204.01,"endTime":1207.25,"body":"themselves. It is distinct from"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1207.28,"endTime":1210.79,"body":"another group. And that's true,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1207.28,"endTime":1210.79,"body":"whether you're a straight person"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1210.79,"endTime":1215.1399999999999,"body":"looking at gay people, or"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1210.79,"endTime":1215.1399999999999,"body":"whether you're gay looking at"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1215.1399999999999,"endTime":1220.87,"body":"trans people or lesbian people."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1215.1399999999999,"endTime":1220.87,"body":"It's there's always this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1220.87,"endTime":1225.6699999999998,"body":"compulsion to limit yourself."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1220.87,"endTime":1225.6699999999998,"body":"And I do understand that, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1225.6699999999998,"endTime":1230.47,"body":"know, it's when I was 18, I came"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1225.6699999999998,"endTime":1230.47,"body":"out as gay and that was"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1230.47,"endTime":1235.03,"body":"something that at first I really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1230.47,"endTime":1235.03,"body":"he really felt like kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1235.03,"endTime":1238.36,"body":"comforted by the kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1235.03,"endTime":1238.36,"body":"the walls of this box,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1238.3899999999999,"endTime":1242.71,"body":"essentially. But then I feel"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1238.3899999999999,"endTime":1242.71,"body":"like it's to kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1242.71,"endTime":1246.6399999999999,"body":"fundamentally ignore yourself to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1242.71,"endTime":1246.6399999999999,"body":"just wall yourself in like that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1246.6399999999999,"endTime":1249.7,"body":"and to box yourself in. Because"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1246.6399999999999,"endTime":1249.7,"body":"we're not static beings, we're"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1249.7,"endTime":1253.87,"body":"always changing. And I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1249.7,"endTime":1253.87,"body":"that it is really, really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1253.87,"endTime":1259.54,"body":"important. You know, if I'd seen"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1253.87,"endTime":1259.54,"body":"myself now 18 years old, I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1259.54,"endTime":1262.3,"body":"I would have been terrified. You"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1259.54,"endTime":1262.3,"body":"know, I think that would have"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1262.3,"endTime":1268.27,"body":"really felt like, Oh, what is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1262.3,"endTime":1268.27,"body":"this person? Because I think I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1268.27,"endTime":1272.23,"body":"did, you know, I really bought"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1268.27,"endTime":1272.23,"body":"into this idea of not outright"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1272.23,"endTime":1276.1,"body":"masculinity, but you know, kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1272.23,"endTime":1276.1,"body":"of gender identity being very"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1276.1,"endTime":1280.72,"body":"fixed and solid. And I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1276.1,"endTime":1280.72,"body":"glad that I always stayed open"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1280.72,"endTime":1284.05,"body":"to that. And I think that it is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1280.72,"endTime":1284.05,"body":"something that is hugely"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1284.05,"endTime":1288.6399999999999,"body":"beneficial to question if those"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1284.05,"endTime":1288.6399999999999,"body":"binaries that we find ourselves"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1288.6399999999999,"endTime":1291.22,"body":"in both on like a kind of wider"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1288.6399999999999,"endTime":1291.22,"body":"social level, but also on a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1291.22,"endTime":1293.8,"body":"personal one, because you really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1291.22,"endTime":1293.8,"body":"never know what you can find out"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1293.8,"endTime":1294.43,"body":"about yourself."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1295.84,"endTime":1298.75,"body":"Absolutely, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1295.84,"endTime":1298.75,"body":"love what you said about that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1298.75,"endTime":1301.75,"body":"challenging binaries, in some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1298.75,"endTime":1301.75,"body":"ways is to challenge power."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1302.08,"endTime":1310.33,"body":"Because there is kind of almost"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1302.08,"endTime":1310.33,"body":"these units to the possibility"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1310.33,"endTime":1315.76,"body":"and the expansiveness right of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1310.33,"endTime":1315.76,"body":"no boxes. And so I also really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1315.76,"endTime":1318.19,"body":"heard when you said there was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1315.76,"endTime":1318.19,"body":"comfort in those walls, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1318.19,"endTime":1321.1,"body":"like, Yes, from a trauma"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1318.19,"endTime":1321.1,"body":"perspective, there is a sense of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1321.1,"endTime":1324.31,"body":"containment and belonging,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1321.1,"endTime":1324.31,"body":"right. This is where I belong."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1324.31,"endTime":1326.8899999999999,"body":"Like, I remember when I first"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1324.31,"endTime":1326.8899999999999,"body":"came out, and, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1326.8899999999999,"endTime":1330.1,"body":"saying I was by and there's a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1326.8899999999999,"endTime":1330.1,"body":"lot of by phobia on the lesbian"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1330.1,"endTime":1333.34,"body":"scene, which is where I was at"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1330.1,"endTime":1333.34,"body":"the time because of our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1333.34,"endTime":1337.6299999999999,"body":"presented, and I didn't come out"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1333.34,"endTime":1337.6299999999999,"body":"as trans yet. And so very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1337.6299999999999,"endTime":1341.3799999999999,"body":"quickly, I was like, well, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1337.6299999999999,"endTime":1341.3799999999999,"body":"only like, sis men I'm attracted"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1341.3799999999999,"endTime":1344.98,"body":"to are gay. So I guess I can be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1341.3799999999999,"endTime":1344.98,"body":"a lesbian, you know, because I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1344.98,"endTime":1348.1599999999999,"body":"wanted a sense of belonging,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1344.98,"endTime":1348.1599999999999,"body":"right? There is safety in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1348.1599999999999,"endTime":1352.33,"body":"sense of like belonging to like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1348.1599999999999,"endTime":1352.33,"body":"a pack and being contained"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1352.6,"endTime":1356.05,"body":"within a box. But then there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1352.6,"endTime":1356.05,"body":"also limitations, right? Like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1356.05,"endTime":1359.05,"body":"you said, you never know what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1356.05,"endTime":1359.05,"body":"you can find out when you can go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1359.05,"endTime":1363.76,"body":"out of that box. And so, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1359.05,"endTime":1363.76,"body":"that is such a field that both"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1363.94,"endTime":1367.24,"body":"micro and macro struggle, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1363.94,"endTime":1367.24,"body":"It's an internal struggle. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1367.24,"endTime":1371.2,"body":"think it's also a political"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1367.24,"endTime":1371.2,"body":"struggle, right at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1371.2,"endTime":1374.8,"body":"there was a lot of talk, for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1371.2,"endTime":1374.8,"body":"example, how a lot of disabled"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1374.8,"endTime":1379.54,"body":"people feel really failed by"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1374.8,"endTime":1379.54,"body":"even progressive and kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1379.54,"endTime":1383.47,"body":"leftist movements, right, during"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1379.54,"endTime":1383.47,"body":"this pandemic, and, and now that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1383.5,"endTime":1386.83,"body":"we're all pretending that this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1383.5,"endTime":1386.83,"body":"pandemic is over. And so this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1386.83,"endTime":1389.59,"body":"idea of cross movement,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1386.83,"endTime":1389.59,"body":"solidarity, which is also in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1389.59,"endTime":1395.2,"body":"your book is very challenging."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1389.59,"endTime":1395.2,"body":"So how did you? You know, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1395.2,"endTime":1398.11,"body":"is also a story about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1395.2,"endTime":1398.11,"body":"organizing, I feel in some ways"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1398.11,"endTime":1401.68,"body":"proud pink sky. Right. So how"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1398.11,"endTime":1401.68,"body":"did you manage those challenges?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1402.7,"endTime":1408.73,"body":"Have portraying those tensions"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1402.7,"endTime":1408.73,"body":"between, you know, in groups,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1408.73,"endTime":1414.3999999999999,"body":"how groups, people who fall into"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1408.73,"endTime":1414.3999999999999,"body":"those cracks, right, like by and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1414.52,"endTime":1418.84,"body":"some binary non binary folks do?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1414.52,"endTime":1418.84,"body":"Yes. What How did you navigate"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1418.84,"endTime":1422.2,"body":"those? Because those are not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1418.84,"endTime":1422.2,"body":"easy conversations to write or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1422.2,"endTime":1423.82,"body":"tensions to write? I don't think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1424.6599999999999,"endTime":1429.34,"body":"not at all,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1424.6599999999999,"endTime":1429.34,"body":"no. It was something very"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1429.34,"endTime":1434.98,"body":"challenging. You know, I really,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1429.34,"endTime":1434.98,"body":"really didn't with this book at"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1434.98,"endTime":1439.81,"body":"all want to, through a village"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1434.98,"endTime":1439.81,"body":"or prioritize one any group over"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1439.81,"endTime":1443.2,"body":"any other? You know, I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1439.81,"endTime":1443.2,"body":"that there are absolutely"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1443.2,"endTime":1448.81,"body":"wonderful and important aspects"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1443.2,"endTime":1448.81,"body":"to all LGBTQ communities. And,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1449.59,"endTime":1453.58,"body":"yeah, I really didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1449.59,"endTime":1453.58,"body":"also contribute to that division"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1453.58,"endTime":1456.46,"body":"by adding a book that's like gay"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1453.58,"endTime":1456.46,"body":"versus trans or something like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1456.46,"endTime":1460.6599999999999,"body":"that, that would be kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1456.46,"endTime":1460.6599999999999,"body":"opposite to the point. At the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1460.6599999999999,"endTime":1464.8,"body":"same time, you've got to kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1460.6599999999999,"endTime":1464.8,"body":"show these conflicts show where"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1464.8,"endTime":1468.04,"body":"these kinds of prejudices come"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1464.8,"endTime":1468.04,"body":"from, and how those might be"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1468.04,"endTime":1470.83,"body":"different in different"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1468.04,"endTime":1470.83,"body":"communities. And so yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1471.1599999999999,"endTime":1475.24,"body":"horribly difficult. I'm still"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1471.1599999999999,"endTime":1475.24,"body":"not sure if I really got it,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1475.24,"endTime":1477.49,"body":"right. I think probably every"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1475.24,"endTime":1477.49,"body":"reader is going to feel"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1477.49,"endTime":1481.84,"body":"different about that. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1477.49,"endTime":1481.84,"body":"it's, it's really something and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1481.84,"endTime":1484.21,"body":"that's partly why it took so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1481.84,"endTime":1484.21,"body":"long to write as well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1485.83,"endTime":1489.37,"body":"trying to really, really bring"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1485.83,"endTime":1489.37,"body":"all of this out. And also, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1489.37,"endTime":1492.7,"body":"know, it's, it's really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1489.37,"endTime":1492.7,"body":"important to me that straight"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1492.7,"endTime":1496.0,"body":"and sis people can read this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1492.7,"endTime":1496.0,"body":"book and understand what's going"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1496.0,"endTime":1498.94,"body":"on and identify with it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1496.0,"endTime":1498.94,"body":"themselves as well. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1498.94,"endTime":1501.6699999999998,"body":"didn't only want to write a book"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1498.94,"endTime":1501.6699999999998,"body":"that was for the LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1501.6699999999998,"endTime":1505.78,"body":"community. And so that's another"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1501.6699999999998,"endTime":1505.78,"body":"challenge as well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1505.78,"endTime":1509.56,"body":"writing this in a way that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1505.78,"endTime":1509.56,"body":"actually is also in many ways"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1509.56,"endTime":1512.83,"body":"like an introduction to LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1509.56,"endTime":1512.83,"body":"cultures, for those who aren't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1512.83,"endTime":1515.59,"body":"very familiar with it, whilst"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1512.83,"endTime":1515.59,"body":"also not alienating people who"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1515.59,"endTime":1520.51,"body":"are very familiar with it, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1515.59,"endTime":1520.51,"body":"know, so it was just hard to be"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1520.51,"endTime":1520.8999999999999,"body":"perfectly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1522.73,"endTime":1524.8899999999999,"body":"No wonder it took"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1522.73,"endTime":1524.8899999999999,"body":"you 10 years to read this book."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1527.32,"endTime":1532.24,"body":"That there's a lot to like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1527.32,"endTime":1532.24,"body":"address there and and also want"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1532.24,"endTime":1535.09,"body":"to talk about the setting"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1532.24,"endTime":1535.09,"body":"because In a way, I feel that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1535.24,"endTime":1538.57,"body":"sending it in, in Berlin is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1535.24,"endTime":1538.57,"body":"connected to all of those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1538.57,"endTime":1542.53,"body":"conversations. Right? And so I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1538.57,"endTime":1542.53,"body":"was curious about, you know, why"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1542.53,"endTime":1547.18,"body":"Berlin, your relationship to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1542.53,"endTime":1547.18,"body":"Berlin, as somebody who I assume"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1547.18,"endTime":1550.48,"body":"from your accent has moved to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1547.18,"endTime":1550.48,"body":"there from the UK, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1550.48,"endTime":1553.18,"body":"to make assumption, because we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1550.48,"endTime":1553.18,"body":"haven't talked about that. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1553.18,"endTime":1558.55,"body":"that's my assumption I'm making"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1553.18,"endTime":1558.55,"body":"explicit. So. And in a way, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1558.55,"endTime":1561.1599999999999,"body":"know, my understanding of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1558.55,"endTime":1561.1599999999999,"body":"Berlin, even though I haven't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1561.1599999999999,"endTime":1567.31,"body":"visited in a long time, is that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1561.1599999999999,"endTime":1567.31,"body":"it is a city where there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1567.34,"endTime":1572.53,"body":"there are lots of differences"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1567.34,"endTime":1572.53,"body":"and contradictions, co-habiting,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1572.74,"endTime":1576.19,"body":"even kind of queer world. And so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1572.74,"endTime":1576.19,"body":"yeah, tell me more about why"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1576.19,"endTime":1579.58,"body":"Berlin and your relationship to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1576.19,"endTime":1579.58,"body":"Berlin, if you want to, of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1579.58,"endTime":1580.03,"body":"course, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1580.03,"endTime":1586.06,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1580.03,"endTime":1586.06,"body":"So, I moved to Berlin in 2010. I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1586.06,"endTime":1589.99,"body":"lived in Wales for eight years"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1586.06,"endTime":1589.99,"body":"previously to that, where I've"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1589.99,"endTime":1594.79,"body":"done my mining studies. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1589.99,"endTime":1594.79,"body":"yeah, for a few years, I planned"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1594.79,"endTime":1599.08,"body":"on moving to Berlin with my then"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1594.79,"endTime":1599.08,"body":"partner, and it was something"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1599.08,"endTime":1602.08,"body":"I'd finished my PhD and also"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1599.08,"endTime":1602.08,"body":"save up enough money, because we"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1602.08,"endTime":1606.94,"body":"didn't have a lot of that. So"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1602.08,"endTime":1606.94,"body":"Berlin wound up kind of being"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1606.97,"endTime":1610.72,"body":"this dream, that I kind of had"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1606.97,"endTime":1610.72,"body":"for a few years before it could"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1610.72,"endTime":1615.82,"body":"actually happen. And I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1610.72,"endTime":1615.82,"body":"like all of these kind of longer"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1615.82,"endTime":1620.3799999999999,"body":"term dreams, when it actually"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1615.82,"endTime":1620.3799999999999,"body":"meets reality, it can be quite a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1620.3799999999999,"endTime":1623.23,"body":"jarring experience, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1620.3799999999999,"endTime":1623.23,"body":"not that I knew exactly what to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1623.23,"endTime":1628.75,"body":"expect, but I kind of had this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1623.23,"endTime":1628.75,"body":"idea of, of Berlin as this, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1628.75,"endTime":1632.23,"body":"know, it was quite utopia."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1628.75,"endTime":1632.23,"body":"Especially, you know, you read"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1632.26,"endTime":1634.3899999999999,"body":"Berlin's got half a million"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1632.26,"endTime":1634.3899999999999,"body":"people would advise gay and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1634.3899999999999,"endTime":1637.24,"body":"lesbian, presumably not even"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1634.3899999999999,"endTime":1637.24,"body":"including, you know, by queer"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1637.24,"endTime":1641.95,"body":"trans people. And, yeah, and, of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1637.24,"endTime":1641.95,"body":"course, I've had a lot of great"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1641.95,"endTime":1645.1599999999999,"body":"experiences here. And I've met a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1641.95,"endTime":1645.1599999999999,"body":"lot of extremely wonderful"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1645.1599999999999,"endTime":1650.68,"body":"people here. At the same time,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1645.1599999999999,"endTime":1650.68,"body":"nowhere is free from the same"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1650.68,"endTime":1654.79,"body":"problems that I saw back in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1650.68,"endTime":1654.79,"body":"Wales, you know, and there's, in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1654.79,"endTime":1658.51,"body":"some ways, Berlin, even in an"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1654.79,"endTime":1658.51,"body":"even more extreme way, has"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1658.51,"endTime":1661.93,"body":"certain amounts of segregation"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1658.51,"endTime":1661.93,"body":"in the city. Temptation is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1661.93,"endTime":1664.45,"body":"putting it to too harshly and I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1661.93,"endTime":1664.45,"body":"don't mean to appropriate that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1664.45,"endTime":1668.35,"body":"word. But Berlin has these kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1664.45,"endTime":1668.35,"body":"of, like divisions and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1668.35,"endTime":1672.82,"body":"separations. Yeah. And, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1668.35,"endTime":1672.82,"body":"know, like, for example, I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1672.82,"endTime":1676.57,"body":"it's like much less common for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1672.82,"endTime":1676.57,"body":"queer men and queer women, for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1676.57,"endTime":1679.6299999999999,"body":"example, to spend time together"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1676.57,"endTime":1679.6299999999999,"body":"in Berlin than it was back in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1679.6299999999999,"endTime":1683.29,"body":"Wales, you know, Republic has"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1679.6299999999999,"endTime":1683.29,"body":"community is smaller. And maybe"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1683.29,"endTime":1686.5,"body":"because community is so much"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1683.29,"endTime":1686.5,"body":"bigger here, people can kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1687.7,"endTime":1691.93,"body":"divide off, you know, into their"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1687.7,"endTime":1691.93,"body":"own groupings, they don't have a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1691.93,"endTime":1695.1699999999998,"body":"huge amount of content"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1691.93,"endTime":1695.1699999999998,"body":"necessarily with each other. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1695.2,"endTime":1698.83,"body":"so, yeah, I think that partly"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1695.2,"endTime":1698.83,"body":"was kind of an inspiration for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1698.83,"endTime":1702.85,"body":"prepping sky, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1698.83,"endTime":1702.85,"body":"kind of when we actually have"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1702.85,"endTime":1707.56,"body":"enough of us, it almost becomes"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1702.85,"endTime":1707.56,"body":"less unified. You know, the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1707.56,"endTime":1714.37,"body":"more? Yeah, I've kind of gone up"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1707.56,"endTime":1714.37,"body":"and down a lot with the city,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1714.3999999999999,"endTime":1717.34,"body":"you know, over the years, I've"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1714.3999999999999,"endTime":1717.34,"body":"been here for 13 years now. So"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1717.34,"endTime":1720.97,"body":"it's, that's a lot of times I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1717.34,"endTime":1720.97,"body":"have a lot of different feelings"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1720.97,"endTime":1725.3799999999999,"body":"about it. Yeah, and I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1720.97,"endTime":1725.3799999999999,"body":"that's also kind of what"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1725.3799999999999,"endTime":1727.96,"body":"inspired me to start writing MB"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1725.3799999999999,"endTime":1727.96,"body":"topia, as well, because that's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1727.96,"endTime":1730.4199999999998,"body":"how I feel about this city. You"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1727.96,"endTime":1730.4199999999998,"body":"know, Berlin is a city of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1730.4199999999998,"endTime":1735.8799999999999,"body":"extremes. And that's extreme"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1730.4199999999998,"endTime":1735.8799999999999,"body":"good and extreme bad. And this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1735.8799999999999,"endTime":1738.3999999999999,"body":"kind of Uncanny mix of the two,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1735.8799999999999,"endTime":1738.3999999999999,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1739.96,"endTime":1742.51,"body":"absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1739.96,"endTime":1742.51,"body":"really related, when you talked"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1742.51,"endTime":1745.75,"body":"about, you know, when there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1742.51,"endTime":1745.75,"body":"more of us, it's easier to kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1745.75,"endTime":1749.3799999999999,"body":"of separate it and kind of Hive"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1745.75,"endTime":1749.3799999999999,"body":"off, I don't know if that's the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1749.3799999999999,"endTime":1753.34,"body":"right term. But you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1749.3799999999999,"endTime":1753.34,"body":"remember like, even, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1753.34,"endTime":1757.6599999999999,"body":"in and of course, as more openly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1753.34,"endTime":1757.6599999999999,"body":"out and trans queer people who"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1757.6599999999999,"endTime":1762.04,"body":"need any delay now, but in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1757.6599999999999,"endTime":1762.04,"body":"80s, not a lot of people without"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1762.04,"endTime":1765.1299999999999,"body":"a screen trans. Right. And so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1762.04,"endTime":1765.1299999999999,"body":"there is kind of a coming"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1765.1299999999999,"endTime":1768.82,"body":"together across identities. You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1765.1299999999999,"endTime":1768.82,"body":"know, even I used to be on this,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1768.82,"endTime":1773.1699999999998,"body":"like, Italian lesbian email"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1768.82,"endTime":1773.1699999999998,"body":"list. And it wasn't a big deal"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1773.1699999999998,"endTime":1775.69,"body":"when I came out as bi people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1773.1699999999998,"endTime":1775.69,"body":"were in all sorts of living"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1775.69,"endTime":1779.95,"body":"situations, because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1775.69,"endTime":1779.95,"body":"queer stick together no matter"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1779.95,"endTime":1783.37,"body":"what, right? But when you have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1779.95,"endTime":1783.37,"body":"more people than it's easier to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1783.37,"endTime":1787.78,"body":"kind of almost replicate those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1783.37,"endTime":1787.78,"body":"structures of power that we're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1787.78,"endTime":1791.56,"body":"used to, right. Oh, let me stay"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1787.78,"endTime":1791.56,"body":"safe in kind of my area. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1791.56,"endTime":1795.9099999999999,"body":"then what happens when you've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1791.56,"endTime":1795.9099999999999,"body":"done easily belong to one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1796.21,"endTime":1802.03,"body":"district? Literally, actually,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1796.21,"endTime":1802.03,"body":"or the other right, then? Then"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1802.06,"endTime":1806.35,"body":"you end up at the margins again,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1802.06,"endTime":1806.35,"body":"right? Because you don't quite"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1806.35,"endTime":1811.6599999999999,"body":"belong neatly into a box. And so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1806.35,"endTime":1811.6599999999999,"body":"yeah, and I'm just kind of just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1811.6599999999999,"endTime":1815.59,"body":"reflecting on that idea of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1811.6599999999999,"endTime":1815.59,"body":"we can have those utopian"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1815.59,"endTime":1818.6499999999999,"body":"dreams, like you said, but those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1815.59,"endTime":1818.6499999999999,"body":"utopian dreams can quickly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1818.6499999999999,"endTime":1824.59,"body":"become dystopian, if you don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1818.6499999999999,"endTime":1824.59,"body":"fit neatly into the very tight"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1824.59,"endTime":1828.1299999999999,"body":"box, which cannot change. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1824.59,"endTime":1828.1299999999999,"body":"think we're seeing a lot of that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1828.3999999999999,"endTime":1833.23,"body":"with even, you know, square"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1828.3999999999999,"endTime":1833.23,"body":"people being increasingly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1833.23,"endTime":1836.71,"body":"recruited. into the anti trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1833.23,"endTime":1836.71,"body":"movement, right? Almost like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1836.83,"endTime":1840.01,"body":"this is a threat to you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1836.83,"endTime":1840.01,"body":"your identity, who was, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1840.01,"endTime":1844.0,"body":"know, who's really gay in air"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1840.01,"endTime":1844.0,"body":"quotes was really lesbian, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1844.0,"endTime":1848.02,"body":"know, trans people are taking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1844.0,"endTime":1848.02,"body":"away from our communities. Just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1848.02,"endTime":1852.7,"body":"that sense of fear. Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1848.02,"endTime":1852.7,"body":"don't know, if you want to kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1852.7,"endTime":1857.74,"body":"of comment on that, or if that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1852.7,"endTime":1857.74,"body":"also part of what you kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1857.74,"endTime":1861.43,"body":"sow in the world and kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1857.74,"endTime":1861.43,"body":"wove into the book or Yeah."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1862.48,"endTime":1865.3,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1862.48,"endTime":1865.3,"body":"mean, yeah, it is something"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1865.3,"endTime":1868.6,"body":"that, you know, encountered,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1865.3,"endTime":1868.6,"body":"from, from the moment that I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1868.6299999999999,"endTime":1872.71,"body":"started. When I, when I joined,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1868.6299999999999,"endTime":1872.71,"body":"what was then that LGB society"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1872.71,"endTime":1875.4099999999999,"body":"at my university, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1872.71,"endTime":1875.4099999999999,"body":"there were those of us who"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1875.4099999999999,"endTime":1881.8,"body":"fought very hard to have the tea"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1875.4099999999999,"endTime":1881.8,"body":"added at the time. And, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1882.31,"endTime":1887.05,"body":"honestly, it was, it was often"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1882.31,"endTime":1887.05,"body":"quite extreme, the Swansea"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1887.05,"endTime":1892.3,"body":"University, in the early 2000s,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1887.05,"endTime":1892.3,"body":"you know, there was a huge"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1892.3,"endTime":1898.75,"body":"amount of anti trans sentiment"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1892.3,"endTime":1898.75,"body":"and backlash. And I was one of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1898.75,"endTime":1905.02,"body":"the only male bodied people who"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1898.75,"endTime":1905.02,"body":"was competing against this, this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1905.05,"endTime":1908.08,"body":"anti trans sentiment, and that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1905.05,"endTime":1908.08,"body":"was very afraid at the time. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1908.08,"endTime":1914.08,"body":"I think that that made I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1908.08,"endTime":1914.08,"body":"remember giving a speech, for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1914.08,"endTime":1918.97,"body":"example, in front of the student"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1914.08,"endTime":1918.97,"body":"body, and the president of the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1918.97,"endTime":1922.45,"body":"Union at the time, who I felt"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1918.97,"endTime":1922.45,"body":"was quite transphobic person"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1923.32,"endTime":1927.01,"body":"packed the meeting with"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1923.32,"endTime":1927.01,"body":"athletics union, so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1927.61,"endTime":1930.76,"body":"sports guys, and there were"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1927.61,"endTime":1930.76,"body":"about 200 of them, and I'd give"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1930.76,"endTime":1933.6399999999999,"body":"the speech, and it was a, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1930.76,"endTime":1933.6399999999999,"body":"know, sort of shaking 20 of the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1933.6399999999999,"endTime":1940.03,"body":"speech. And yeah, those those"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1933.6399999999999,"endTime":1940.03,"body":"kind of experiences, really kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1940.03,"endTime":1943.99,"body":"of, have stuck. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1940.03,"endTime":1943.99,"body":"wound up inspiring a novel in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1943.99,"endTime":1948.6399999999999,"body":"that sense. And I think that the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1943.99,"endTime":1948.6399999999999,"body":"response from a lot of gay and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1948.6399999999999,"endTime":1951.6699999999998,"body":"lesbian people at the University"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1948.6399999999999,"endTime":1951.6699999999998,"body":"at the time was fear was real"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1951.6699999999998,"endTime":1956.68,"body":"fear. And it was we've got to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1951.6699999999998,"endTime":1956.68,"body":"protect ourselves by distancing"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1956.71,"endTime":1961.0,"body":"ourselves from people who seem"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1956.71,"endTime":1961.0,"body":"less even less normal than us,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1961.03,"endTime":1964.0,"body":"you know, it's like, kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1961.03,"endTime":1964.0,"body":"sucking up to the bully kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1964.0,"endTime":1968.62,"body":"mentality. I think, in some"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1964.0,"endTime":1968.62,"body":"ways, that fear is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1968.62,"endTime":1975.22,"body":"understandable. I felt that fear"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1968.62,"endTime":1975.22,"body":"too. But it's really, really not"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1975.22,"endTime":1978.28,"body":"the right approach. And you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1975.22,"endTime":1978.28,"body":"know, I think the people who"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1978.7,"endTime":1980.95,"body":"spent any time thinking about"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1978.7,"endTime":1980.95,"body":"this, you know, you realize it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1980.95,"endTime":1983.9199999999998,"body":"doesn't stop at one group, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1980.95,"endTime":1983.9199999999998,"body":"know, you're always next on the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1983.9199999999998,"endTime":1990.79,"body":"chopping block. Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1983.9199999999998,"endTime":1990.79,"body":"think that this kind of, has"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1990.79,"endTime":1993.7,"body":"always been there. But the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1990.79,"endTime":1993.7,"body":"difference recently is that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1993.7,"endTime":1998.68,"body":"there are very, very, very well"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1993.7,"endTime":1998.68,"body":"funded campaigns against trans"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1998.68,"endTime":2003.99,"body":"people in particular, because"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":1998.68,"endTime":2003.99,"body":"elements of the right are always"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2003.99,"endTime":2008.79,"body":"looking for wedge issues, always"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2003.99,"endTime":2008.79,"body":"looking for scapegoats. Trans"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2008.79,"endTime":2010.6499999999999,"body":"people fit the bill perfectly,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2008.79,"endTime":2010.6499999999999,"body":"because a lot of people are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2010.6499999999999,"endTime":2013.32,"body":"quite ignorant about trans"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2010.6499999999999,"endTime":2013.32,"body":"views, trans people's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2013.32,"endTime":2018.12,"body":"experiences. Yeah, and so I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2013.32,"endTime":2018.12,"body":"don't think it's necessarily in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2018.12,"endTime":2020.52,"body":"some ways, it's something that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2018.12,"endTime":2020.52,"body":"is quite old, but at the same"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2020.52,"endTime":2024.6599999999999,"body":"time, it's something that is, is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2020.52,"endTime":2024.6599999999999,"body":"being given a kind of new force,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2024.69,"endTime":2028.4099999999999,"body":"a new like empowerment to it."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2024.69,"endTime":2028.4099999999999,"body":"And so we have to like kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2028.4099999999999,"endTime":2031.26,"body":"work hard never to establish the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2028.4099999999999,"endTime":2031.26,"body":"solidarity. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2031.26,"endTime":2035.9099999999999,"body":"that solidarity does exist with"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2031.26,"endTime":2035.9099999999999,"body":"most gay, lesbian and bi people"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2035.9099999999999,"endTime":2040.26,"body":"towards trans people, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2035.9099999999999,"endTime":2040.26,"body":"I like to think about the fact"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2040.26,"endTime":2044.8799999999999,"body":"that one of the most pro trans"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2040.26,"endTime":2044.8799999999999,"body":"groups that there is, are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2044.8799999999999,"endTime":2048.06,"body":"lesbian women, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2044.8799999999999,"endTime":2048.06,"body":"there's an overwhelming amount"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2048.06,"endTime":2050.76,"body":"of support when surveyed among"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2048.06,"endTime":2050.76,"body":"lesbian women towards trans"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2050.76,"endTime":2054.4500000000003,"body":"people. Not to say that there's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2050.76,"endTime":2054.4500000000003,"body":"not been transphobia there's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2054.4500000000003,"endTime":2059.76,"body":"been communities of course. But"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2054.4500000000003,"endTime":2059.76,"body":"the media kind of often distorts"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2059.76,"endTime":2063.84,"body":"this and it takes these like for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2059.76,"endTime":2063.84,"body":"you transphobic gay and lesbian"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2063.84,"endTime":2070.53,"body":"people and platforms, the hell"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2063.84,"endTime":2070.53,"body":"out of them. So that even if 95%"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2070.56,"endTime":2074.91,"body":"of people who are gay or"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2070.56,"endTime":2074.91,"body":"lesbian, either have no strong"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2074.91,"endTime":2076.77,"body":"feelings for trans people, or"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2074.91,"endTime":2076.77,"body":"stand in solidarity with them,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2077.1,"endTime":2081.03,"body":"it gives an impression that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2077.1,"endTime":2081.03,"body":"there's ultimately like this,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2081.06,"endTime":2085.77,"body":"this huge groundswell of hate."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2081.06,"endTime":2085.77,"body":"Yeah, which I think is a real"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2085.77,"endTime":2087.1200000000003,"body":"problem, obviously."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2087.8100000000004,"endTime":2090.3300000000004,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2087.8100000000004,"endTime":2090.3300000000004,"body":"you know, when you were talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2090.3300000000004,"endTime":2095.4900000000002,"body":"about, in a way, those kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2090.3300000000004,"endTime":2095.4900000000002,"body":"techniques to inspire fear,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2095.52,"endTime":2098.94,"body":"right, like taking this 5% and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2095.52,"endTime":2098.94,"body":"platforming or like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2098.9700000000003,"endTime":2102.4500000000003,"body":"president of the Student Union"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2098.9700000000003,"endTime":2102.4500000000003,"body":"like packing you know, the room"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2102.4500000000003,"endTime":2105.6600000000003,"body":"with like, jocks basically, like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2102.4500000000003,"endTime":2105.6600000000003,"body":"sports people, it's an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2105.6600000000003,"endTime":2109.44,"body":"intimidation technique, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2105.6600000000003,"endTime":2109.44,"body":"And it made me think about the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2109.44,"endTime":2112.17,"body":"opening of your book where the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2109.44,"endTime":2112.17,"body":"you know, I don't want to give"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2112.17,"endTime":2116.19,"body":"too many spoilers, but there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2112.17,"endTime":2116.19,"body":"a young person who after being"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2116.82,"endTime":2120.84,"body":"bullied and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2116.82,"endTime":2120.84,"body":"experiencing physical violence"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2120.84,"endTime":2125.19,"body":"from their peers that is subject"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2120.84,"endTime":2125.19,"body":"to kind of the headmaster's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2125.2200000000003,"endTime":2131.19,"body":"intimidation and threat really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2125.2200000000003,"endTime":2131.19,"body":"for the story of homophobic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2131.19,"endTime":2135.3,"body":"violence that kind of uses to in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2131.19,"endTime":2135.3,"body":"intimidate this young person."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2135.6600000000003,"endTime":2137.88,"body":"And then there is an exchange"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2135.6600000000003,"endTime":2137.88,"body":"with the same person, their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2137.88,"endTime":2141.0,"body":"lover about, you know, their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2137.88,"endTime":2141.0,"body":"love or going country be more of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2141.0,"endTime":2143.94,"body":"a land, right? Because even if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2141.0,"endTime":2143.94,"body":"it's about sexuality, it's also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2143.94,"endTime":2148.23,"body":"about gender, right? It's about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2143.94,"endTime":2148.23,"body":"those people who just cannot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2148.23,"endTime":2151.77,"body":"hide it. Right? And so because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2148.23,"endTime":2151.77,"body":"of that, that there's that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2151.77,"endTime":2154.29,"body":"dialogue, right, which makes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2151.77,"endTime":2154.29,"body":"sense, like, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2154.29,"endTime":2157.6800000000003,"body":"survival, right. Some people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2154.29,"endTime":2157.6800000000003,"body":"survive by hiding and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2157.6800000000003,"endTime":2160.7400000000002,"body":"pretending, and sometimes even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2157.6800000000003,"endTime":2160.7400000000002,"body":"participating in the homophobic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2160.7400000000002,"endTime":2165.6600000000003,"body":"violence against peers, because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2160.7400000000002,"endTime":2165.6600000000003,"body":"it's so scary to be on the other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2165.6600000000003,"endTime":2170.6400000000003,"body":"side. But some of us have never"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2165.6600000000003,"endTime":2170.6400000000003,"body":"been those people who can hide"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2170.6400000000003,"endTime":2177.0,"body":"it. Right. And so then then what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2170.6400000000003,"endTime":2177.0,"body":"happens, you know, yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2177.0,"endTime":2180.7200000000003,"body":"love the opening of the novel,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2177.0,"endTime":2180.7200000000003,"body":"because I really, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2181.05,"endTime":2184.8300000000004,"body":"I just felt a lot of people,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2181.05,"endTime":2184.8300000000004,"body":"including myself, could relate"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2184.8300000000004,"endTime":2190.38,"body":"to what happens to those of us"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2184.8300000000004,"endTime":2190.38,"body":"who don't fit into this box that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2190.38,"endTime":2193.32,"body":"gets narrower and narrower and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2190.38,"endTime":2193.32,"body":"narrower in some ways."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2194.2200000000003,"endTime":2195.6000000000004,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2194.2200000000003,"endTime":2195.6000000000004,"body":"absolutely. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2195.6000000000004,"endTime":2200.9100000000003,"body":"that's experience I had as well,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2195.6000000000004,"endTime":2200.9100000000003,"body":"you know, growing up, I was"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2200.9100000000003,"endTime":2206.25,"body":"never, and I think that, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2200.9100000000003,"endTime":2206.25,"body":"know, the more that I kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2206.25,"endTime":2209.25,"body":"dive into my own identity and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2206.25,"endTime":2209.25,"body":"think about myself, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2209.25,"endTime":2212.5800000000004,"body":"the kind of more, a lot of my"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2209.25,"endTime":2212.5800000000004,"body":"experiences fall into place, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2212.5800000000004,"endTime":2217.4100000000003,"body":"kind of make sense. And, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2212.5800000000004,"endTime":2217.4100000000003,"body":"know, as a kid, I really didn't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2217.4100000000003,"endTime":2222.1800000000003,"body":"fit in terms of gender, binary"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2217.4100000000003,"endTime":2222.1800000000003,"body":"gender identity at all, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2222.1800000000003,"endTime":2225.6600000000003,"body":"know, and, you know, I played"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2222.1800000000003,"endTime":2225.6600000000003,"body":"with toy cars and dolls, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2225.6600000000003,"endTime":2228.27,"body":"know, and I know that it's, it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2225.6600000000003,"endTime":2228.27,"body":"feels kind of silly to say,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2228.27,"endTime":2230.4300000000003,"body":"because it's never like one"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2228.27,"endTime":2230.4300000000003,"body":"thing that's like, based on"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2230.4300000000003,"endTime":2232.8,"body":"gender identity, you can't like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2230.4300000000003,"endTime":2232.8,"body":"pinpoint, these are the toys I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2232.8,"endTime":2236.55,"body":"played with this demonstrates."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2232.8,"endTime":2236.55,"body":"But it's like a collection of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2236.55,"endTime":2239.34,"body":"all these different experiences"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2236.55,"endTime":2239.34,"body":"together that, you know, start"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2239.34,"endTime":2242.52,"body":"to make sense, I always had a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2239.34,"endTime":2242.52,"body":"lot of friends who were boys and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2242.52,"endTime":2246.21,"body":"principal girls, and didn't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2242.52,"endTime":2246.21,"body":"really ever fit in with either."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2247.71,"endTime":2250.38,"body":"And, you know, as a kid, of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2247.71,"endTime":2250.38,"body":"course, that just hurts. You"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2250.38,"endTime":2253.29,"body":"don't think about like what you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2250.38,"endTime":2253.29,"body":"might be, you only see what"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2253.29,"endTime":2257.46,"body":"you're not. And, yeah, that was"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2253.29,"endTime":2257.46,"body":"something that I really, really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2257.4900000000002,"endTime":2260.94,"body":"was important to put into the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2257.4900000000002,"endTime":2260.94,"body":"novel, you know, this kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2260.9700000000003,"endTime":2267.0600000000004,"body":"real. Inability to fit in, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2260.9700000000003,"endTime":2267.0600000000004,"body":"it's something so cool,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2267.0600000000004,"endTime":2270.1200000000003,"body":"especially when you're younger,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2267.0600000000004,"endTime":2270.1200000000003,"body":"you're told by all the adults"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2270.1200000000003,"endTime":2273.7200000000003,"body":"around you, you know, you just"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2270.1200000000003,"endTime":2273.7200000000003,"body":"need to do this just. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2273.7200000000003,"endTime":2275.34,"body":"essentially, it's always some"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2273.7200000000003,"endTime":2275.34,"body":"variant of just that more"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2275.34,"endTime":2279.9900000000002,"body":"normal. But our natures aren't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2275.34,"endTime":2279.9900000000002,"body":"something that we can"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2279.9900000000002,"endTime":2284.61,"body":"consciously just change. And the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2279.9900000000002,"endTime":2284.61,"body":"best that we can do is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2284.67,"endTime":2288.6000000000004,"body":"essentially put a wall around"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2284.67,"endTime":2288.6000000000004,"body":"our true selves, and act out a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2288.6000000000004,"endTime":2291.9,"body":"performance of who we're"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2288.6000000000004,"endTime":2291.9,"body":"supposed to be. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2291.9,"endTime":2296.25,"body":"the, just the personal and the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2291.9,"endTime":2296.25,"body":"social impact of that is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2296.28,"endTime":2299.9700000000003,"body":"enormous. I think I genuinely"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2296.28,"endTime":2299.9700000000003,"body":"believe that we would have a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2299.9700000000003,"endTime":2302.61,"body":"much, much better world if"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2299.9700000000003,"endTime":2302.61,"body":"people didn't feel pressured"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2302.61,"endTime":2304.8300000000004,"body":"into doing that, because I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2302.61,"endTime":2304.8300000000004,"body":"really think that that comes out"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2305.13,"endTime":2308.13,"body":"in in 1000s, and 1000s of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2305.13,"endTime":2308.13,"body":"different ways."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2308.73,"endTime":2312.2400000000002,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2308.73,"endTime":2312.2400000000002,"body":"Like, even just thinking, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2312.2400000000002,"endTime":2315.1800000000003,"body":"know, as you were talking, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2312.2400000000002,"endTime":2315.1800000000003,"body":"thinking about the conversations"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2315.1800000000003,"endTime":2318.4500000000003,"body":"I was having with sis women,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2315.1800000000003,"endTime":2318.4500000000003,"body":"just before and after top"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2318.4500000000003,"endTime":2321.9300000000003,"body":"surgery, for example. And many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2318.4500000000003,"endTime":2321.9300000000003,"body":"sis women felt that gave them"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2321.9300000000003,"endTime":2325.8900000000003,"body":"permission to talk to me about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2321.9300000000003,"endTime":2325.8900000000003,"body":"how they hated their chest, or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2325.8900000000003,"endTime":2329.67,"body":"they would also get rid of it if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2325.8900000000003,"endTime":2329.67,"body":"it was socially or culturally"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2329.67,"endTime":2333.1800000000003,"body":"acceptable. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2329.67,"endTime":2333.1800000000003,"body":"well, you can actually, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2333.1800000000003,"endTime":2337.77,"body":"there's no rule, there's like no"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2333.1800000000003,"endTime":2337.77,"body":"rule that you have to like, keep"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2337.77,"endTime":2342.9300000000003,"body":"your body as it is, right. Since"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2337.77,"endTime":2342.9300000000003,"body":"time immemorial. Humans have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2342.96,"endTime":2347.4,"body":"looked at body modification as a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2342.96,"endTime":2347.4,"body":"way to kind of express and align"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2347.4,"endTime":2350.52,"body":"right. But there are those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2347.4,"endTime":2350.52,"body":"scripts, right, there are the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2350.52,"endTime":2354.54,"body":"scripts that people feel they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2350.52,"endTime":2354.54,"body":"have to fall into. You know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2354.54,"endTime":2358.2000000000003,"body":"what, this is what I'm supposed"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2354.54,"endTime":2358.2000000000003,"body":"to do if I'm assigned male at"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2358.2000000000003,"endTime":2361.71,"body":"birth, and, and this is what I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2358.2000000000003,"endTime":2361.71,"body":"supposed to do if I'm assigned"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2361.71,"endTime":2364.77,"body":"female at birth, and this is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2361.71,"endTime":2364.77,"body":"what being a sis woman means."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2364.77,"endTime":2367.77,"body":"And this is what being a sis man"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2364.77,"endTime":2367.77,"body":"and then we replicate those in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2367.77,"endTime":2370.38,"body":"our community. This is what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2367.77,"endTime":2370.38,"body":"being trans means. This is what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2370.38,"endTime":2374.6400000000003,"body":"being non binary means. Binary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2370.38,"endTime":2374.6400000000003,"body":"now who's trans enough? You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2374.6400000000003,"endTime":2378.03,"body":"know, what, what, who gives you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2374.6400000000003,"endTime":2378.03,"body":"the car that was like, there are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2378.03,"endTime":2381.57,"body":"no cards, people, literally, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2378.03,"endTime":2381.57,"body":"mean, there aren't cards now"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2381.57,"endTime":2384.69,"body":"because you can put an X I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2381.57,"endTime":2384.69,"body":"guess, on your driver's license"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2384.69,"endTime":2387.51,"body":"here have them similar bit"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2384.69,"endTime":2387.51,"body":"nervous about that level of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2387.51,"endTime":2392.1600000000003,"body":"identification by the stage but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2387.51,"endTime":2392.1600000000003,"body":"you know, like, there's just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2392.1600000000003,"endTime":2396.27,"body":"this feeling that people have to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2392.1600000000003,"endTime":2396.27,"body":"fall into the script. And one of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2396.27,"endTime":2399.57,"body":"the things I love in the book"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2396.27,"endTime":2399.57,"body":"kind of were talking about a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2399.57,"endTime":2402.3,"body":"of the heavy topic but there was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2399.57,"endTime":2402.3,"body":"something that was it's funny"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2402.3,"endTime":2405.09,"body":"enough funny at the same time"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2402.3,"endTime":2405.09,"body":"right in the opening when"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2405.09,"endTime":2408.84,"body":"there's the guy and there's this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2405.09,"endTime":2408.84,"body":"little like script flip around"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2408.84,"endTime":2412.05,"body":"that are sexuality like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2408.84,"endTime":2412.05,"body":"heterosexual sir fine in the gay"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2412.05,"endTime":2415.44,"body":"Republic as long as you like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2412.05,"endTime":2415.44,"body":"you know, and again, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2415.44,"endTime":2419.2200000000003,"body":"paraphrasing but like don't done"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2415.44,"endTime":2419.2200000000003,"body":"put in our faces, right, keep"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2419.2200000000003,"endTime":2422.3100000000004,"body":"your public display display"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2419.2200000000003,"endTime":2422.3100000000004,"body":"affections to yourself, which is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2422.52,"endTime":2425.4900000000002,"body":"what a lot of experience right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2422.52,"endTime":2425.4900000000002,"body":"How many of us have heard from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2425.67,"endTime":2429.8100000000004,"body":"family members or straight"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2425.67,"endTime":2429.8100000000004,"body":"colleagues, like, I'm fine with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2429.8100000000004,"endTime":2432.1200000000003,"body":"queer people, but you have to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2429.8100000000004,"endTime":2432.1200000000003,"body":"kiss on the street to the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2432.1200000000003,"endTime":2435.9300000000003,"body":"children have to see that look"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2432.1200000000003,"endTime":2435.9300000000003,"body":"like, like children don't exist"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2435.9300000000003,"endTime":2438.9,"body":"also, you know, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2435.9300000000003,"endTime":2438.9,"body":"preparedness and transmis."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2438.9,"endTime":2442.65,"body":"Right. So I love that, that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2438.9,"endTime":2442.65,"body":"flipping the script, but there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2442.65,"endTime":2447.3900000000003,"body":"also a shadow to flipping the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2442.65,"endTime":2447.3900000000003,"body":"script right in that then, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2449.2200000000003,"endTime":2452.76,"body":"sometimes that's also used"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2449.2200000000003,"endTime":2452.76,"body":"against by folks and manifested"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2452.76,"endTime":2456.51,"body":"by phobia. And so yeah, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2452.76,"endTime":2456.51,"body":"just curious about that kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2456.51,"endTime":2461.7000000000003,"body":"flip Script, Script flip,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2456.51,"endTime":2461.7000000000003,"body":"whichever way you explore the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2461.73,"endTime":2462.8100000000004,"body":"promptings guy."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2463.98,"endTime":2468.6600000000003,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2463.98,"endTime":2468.6600000000003,"body":"mean, I can't I really, it would"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2468.6600000000003,"endTime":2471.3,"body":"have been, I think, very easy to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2468.6600000000003,"endTime":2471.3,"body":"just write a novel in which kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2471.3,"endTime":2475.9500000000003,"body":"of like homophobia is replaced"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2471.3,"endTime":2475.9500000000003,"body":"with Tetra phobia. It's just a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2475.9500000000003,"endTime":2478.8900000000003,"body":"wacky world that's upside down,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2475.9500000000003,"endTime":2478.8900000000003,"body":"we're strictly for press. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2479.19,"endTime":2481.29,"body":"there is, you know, there is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2479.19,"endTime":2481.29,"body":"this element in the novel of,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2482.4300000000003,"endTime":2486.0,"body":"you know, you kind of have what"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2482.4300000000003,"endTime":2486.0,"body":"it means in the state to be a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2486.03,"endTime":2490.86,"body":"real citizen of this Berlin. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2486.03,"endTime":2490.86,"body":"that is to be in a same sex"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2490.86,"endTime":2493.65,"body":"marriage. That's the ideal in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2490.86,"endTime":2493.65,"body":"this world. So of course, this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2493.6800000000003,"endTime":2496.3500000000004,"body":"this exists, but it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2493.6800000000003,"endTime":2496.3500000000004,"body":"something that, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2496.3500000000004,"endTime":2502.11,"body":"absolutely. applies to by people"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2496.3500000000004,"endTime":2502.11,"body":"in particular, and pansexual."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2502.11,"endTime":2506.4900000000002,"body":"People, it's I know, there are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2502.11,"endTime":2506.4900000000002,"body":"scenes in the novel that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2506.4900000000002,"endTime":2509.79,"body":"demonstrate that, you know, then"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2506.4900000000002,"endTime":2509.79,"body":"it's also something that, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2509.79,"endTime":2514.2000000000003,"body":"know, again, I think if you've"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2509.79,"endTime":2514.2000000000003,"body":"hung out in gay spaces, for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2514.2000000000003,"endTime":2517.02,"body":"example, you do see that, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2514.2000000000003,"endTime":2517.02,"body":"know, it's this hole, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2517.05,"endTime":2520.05,"body":"thankfully, I hope it's getting"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2517.05,"endTime":2520.05,"body":"better. But you know, I'm so, so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2520.05,"endTime":2523.7400000000002,"body":"tired of who we were, like, Ill"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2520.05,"endTime":2523.7400000000002,"body":"vaginas kind of thing as though"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2523.9500000000003,"endTime":2527.6400000000003,"body":"men can't have vaginas. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2523.9500000000003,"endTime":2527.6400000000003,"body":"like, of course, they can. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2527.88,"endTime":2530.52,"body":"also as though like, I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2527.88,"endTime":2530.52,"body":"but you don't have to be"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2530.52,"endTime":2533.3100000000004,"body":"disgusted by something or"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2530.52,"endTime":2533.3100000000004,"body":"someone because you don't find"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2533.3100000000004,"endTime":2536.4900000000002,"body":"them sexually attractive. It's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2533.3100000000004,"endTime":2536.4900000000002,"body":"the most immature response. It's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2536.4900000000002,"endTime":2539.8500000000004,"body":"like, I don't know, I, I don't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2536.4900000000002,"endTime":2539.8500000000004,"body":"find like plump, sexually"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2539.8500000000004,"endTime":2546.8100000000004,"body":"attractive, but I'm not"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2539.8500000000004,"endTime":2546.8100000000004,"body":"disgusted by Yeah, and I really,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2546.8100000000004,"endTime":2550.77,"body":"really kind of wanted to explore"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2546.8100000000004,"endTime":2550.77,"body":"that element. Because I also"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2550.77,"endTime":2555.1200000000003,"body":"think that an unhealthy thing"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2550.77,"endTime":2555.1200000000003,"body":"that can often happen when you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2555.15,"endTime":2561.15,"body":"do receive a lot of abuse"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2555.15,"endTime":2561.15,"body":"socially, is to retreat into"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2561.15,"endTime":2565.44,"body":"this identity and to shun,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2561.15,"endTime":2565.44,"body":"again, is the binary thinking to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2565.44,"endTime":2567.78,"body":"shun kind of what is seen as the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2565.44,"endTime":2567.78,"body":"opposite of this identity. So"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2567.78,"endTime":2574.32,"body":"you see that with this kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2567.78,"endTime":2574.32,"body":"kind of disgust shown, say, for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2574.32,"endTime":2578.76,"body":"example, monkey went towards,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2574.32,"endTime":2578.76,"body":"towards women or towards vaginas"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2578.79,"endTime":2582.6600000000003,"body":"or towards heterosexuality. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2578.79,"endTime":2582.6600000000003,"body":"I think that that that has not"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2582.6600000000003,"endTime":2584.5800000000004,"body":"going to fix that allow you to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2582.6600000000003,"endTime":2584.5800000000004,"body":"punch down. So that's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2584.5800000000004,"endTime":2588.1800000000003,"body":"particularly with anti bias,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2584.5800000000004,"endTime":2588.1800000000003,"body":"anti bias sentiment and anti"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2588.1800000000003,"endTime":2591.8700000000003,"body":"trans sentiment. And I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2588.1800000000003,"endTime":2591.8700000000003,"body":"that also, this I've seen this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2591.8700000000003,"endTime":2594.6600000000003,"body":"happen as well, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2591.8700000000003,"endTime":2594.6600000000003,"body":"been in touch with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2595.8,"endTime":2599.1000000000004,"body":"people involved with with"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2595.8,"endTime":2599.1000000000004,"body":"women's groups. And in South"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2599.1000000000004,"endTime":2602.7000000000003,"body":"Wales, there was a particular"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2599.1000000000004,"endTime":2602.7000000000003,"body":"community that I knew several"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2602.7000000000003,"endTime":2608.13,"body":"people from the I don't like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2602.7000000000003,"endTime":2608.13,"body":"using this time a lot because"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2608.13,"endTime":2611.19,"body":"it's abused. But there's a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2608.13,"endTime":2611.19,"body":"certain amount of misandry to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2611.19,"endTime":2615.1800000000003,"body":"this community, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2611.19,"endTime":2615.1800000000003,"body":"there's a real like, male pets"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2615.1800000000003,"endTime":2617.8500000000004,"body":"aren't allowed on the land,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2615.1800000000003,"endTime":2617.8500000000004,"body":"women who don't have their"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2617.8500000000004,"endTime":2621.3,"body":"gender tested, have the baby"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2617.8500000000004,"endTime":2621.3,"body":"have to leave after like three"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2621.3,"endTime":2623.7000000000003,"body":"or four months of pregnancy."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2621.3,"endTime":2623.7000000000003,"body":"It's almost like this kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2623.94,"endTime":2627.6600000000003,"body":"mythical idea of like the penis"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2623.94,"endTime":2627.6600000000003,"body":"being this kind of source of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2627.6600000000003,"endTime":2630.1800000000003,"body":"evil and oppression. And I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2627.6600000000003,"endTime":2630.1800000000003,"body":"that when you get into this kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2630.1800000000003,"endTime":2633.8100000000004,"body":"of level of essentialism, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2630.1800000000003,"endTime":2633.8100000000004,"body":"binary, it really, really has"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2633.8100000000004,"endTime":2636.3300000000004,"body":"these knock on effects against"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2633.8100000000004,"endTime":2636.3300000000004,"body":"even more vulnerable people. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2636.3300000000004,"endTime":2640.5600000000004,"body":"I think a lot of the transphobia"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2636.3300000000004,"endTime":2640.5600000000004,"body":"that is coming from particularly"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2640.5600000000004,"endTime":2646.59,"body":"in Britain, is coming from kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2640.5600000000004,"endTime":2646.59,"body":"of this, this kind of aversion"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2646.59,"endTime":2650.4,"body":"that comes from victims at your"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2646.59,"endTime":2650.4,"body":"own victimization, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2650.6400000000003,"endTime":2653.7000000000003,"body":"I think we all get it, I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2650.6400000000003,"endTime":2653.7000000000003,"body":"there can be this temptation to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2653.7000000000003,"endTime":2658.53,"body":"be like, if I'm going to be anti"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2653.7000000000003,"endTime":2658.53,"body":"straight, because I've had so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2658.53,"endTime":2662.79,"body":"much shit from straight people."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2658.53,"endTime":2662.79,"body":"But there's all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2662.79,"endTime":2665.55,"body":"unintended consequences of it."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2662.79,"endTime":2665.55,"body":"And honestly, it's never going"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2665.55,"endTime":2668.9100000000003,"body":"to hurt the people in positions"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2665.55,"endTime":2668.9100000000003,"body":"of horrible social power. It's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2668.9100000000003,"endTime":2669.9300000000003,"body":"only ever going to punch down."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2671.34,"endTime":2674.61,"body":"Oh, my God, so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2671.34,"endTime":2674.61,"body":"much. So I have so many thoughts"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2674.61,"endTime":2678.03,"body":"on that one, because it's like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2674.61,"endTime":2678.03,"body":"it doesn't hurt just the people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2678.03,"endTime":2681.09,"body":"who are not in the category. It"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2678.03,"endTime":2681.09,"body":"hurts everybody. You know, as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2681.09,"endTime":2684.6000000000004,"body":"you were talking, I had so many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2681.09,"endTime":2684.6000000000004,"body":"kinds of memories, like little"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2684.6000000000004,"endTime":2688.6800000000003,"body":"snippets of moments, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2684.6000000000004,"endTime":2688.6800000000003,"body":"being at the queer bar, and, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2688.6800000000003,"endTime":2692.07,"body":"know, I've been my lesbian"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2688.6800000000003,"endTime":2692.07,"body":"friends going, Oh, you did you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2692.07,"endTime":2696.36,"body":"just lend your inhalers to that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2692.07,"endTime":2696.36,"body":"man. And I was like, Yes, he was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2696.36,"endTime":2699.27,"body":"having an asthma attack and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2696.36,"endTime":2699.27,"body":"didn't have his inhaler on him."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2699.27,"endTime":2701.82,"body":"That's happened to me too. Of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2699.27,"endTime":2701.82,"body":"course, I gave him my inhaler."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2701.82,"endTime":2706.8900000000003,"body":"Right. And there was like, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2701.82,"endTime":2706.8900000000003,"body":"know, not only oh my god,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2706.8900000000003,"endTime":2710.01,"body":"somebody with a penis touched"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2706.8900000000003,"endTime":2710.01,"body":"your remailer which I was like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2710.4300000000003,"endTime":2714.9900000000002,"body":"what level of purity Are you all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2710.4300000000003,"endTime":2714.9900000000002,"body":"immersed in? But also this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2714.9900000000002,"endTime":2720.3900000000003,"body":"piece? This terrible piece"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2714.9900000000002,"endTime":2720.3900000000003,"body":"around? You know, HIV phobia,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2720.3900000000003,"endTime":2722.52,"body":"like, well, what if they're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2720.3900000000003,"endTime":2722.52,"body":"like, What if they're HIV"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2722.52,"endTime":2724.6800000000003,"body":"positive? I was like, yeah, what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2722.52,"endTime":2724.6800000000003,"body":"if they are that is not our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2724.6800000000003,"endTime":2728.73,"body":"transmit. I have a lot of close"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2724.6800000000003,"endTime":2728.73,"body":"folks. Right. And it's like, so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2728.73,"endTime":2732.0,"body":"it was so and then on the other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2728.73,"endTime":2732.0,"body":"and you know, hanging out with a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2732.0,"endTime":2734.52,"body":"lot of gay men because I used to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2732.0,"endTime":2734.52,"body":"be in HIV. You research I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2734.52,"endTime":2737.8500000000004,"body":"remember going for coffee. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2734.52,"endTime":2737.8500000000004,"body":"for some reason, there was one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2737.8500000000004,"endTime":2741.09,"body":"of those few vaginas"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2737.8500000000004,"endTime":2741.09,"body":"conversation and I just had like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2741.09,"endTime":2743.55,"body":"an OBGYN appointment that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2741.09,"endTime":2743.55,"body":"morning. And I was just done."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2743.82,"endTime":2746.8500000000004,"body":"And I remember just like going,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2743.82,"endTime":2746.8500000000004,"body":"Okay, if you didn't have one,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2746.88,"endTime":2749.1000000000004,"body":"and you're not putting your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2746.88,"endTime":2749.1000000000004,"body":"penis in one, you cannot talk"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2749.1000000000004,"endTime":2753.21,"body":"about it right now. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2749.1000000000004,"endTime":2753.21,"body":"the silence descended, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2753.57,"endTime":2758.04,"body":"And that, and I think it's just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2753.57,"endTime":2758.04,"body":"those moments. And those moments"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2758.04,"endTime":2761.2200000000003,"body":"were also painful, because it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2758.04,"endTime":2761.2200000000003,"body":"like, you don't fit neatly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2761.2200000000003,"endTime":2764.6400000000003,"body":"anywhere, right? It's like, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2761.2200000000003,"endTime":2764.6400000000003,"body":"didn't get invited to some of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2764.6400000000003,"endTime":2768.54,"body":"the like, boys dinner, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2764.6400000000003,"endTime":2768.54,"body":"When, even when I was like, even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2768.54,"endTime":2772.1400000000003,"body":"when I was trans masculine,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2768.54,"endTime":2772.1400000000003,"body":"because I wasn't quite masculine"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2772.1400000000003,"endTime":2775.5,"body":"and after, so it's something"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2772.1400000000003,"endTime":2775.5,"body":"suspect. Right? And so I'm with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2775.5,"endTime":2777.9900000000002,"body":"you, it would be easy to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2775.5,"endTime":2777.9900000000002,"body":"retreat. I totally get I don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2777.9900000000002,"endTime":2781.26,"body":"mean, don't get me wrong. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2777.9900000000002,"endTime":2781.26,"body":"all about 240 and retreating and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2781.26,"endTime":2785.7000000000003,"body":"trans community. But that's not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2781.26,"endTime":2785.7000000000003,"body":"exempt from issues either."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2785.73,"endTime":2787.2000000000003,"body":"Right? So"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2788.73,"endTime":2790.5600000000004,"body":"I'm happy"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2788.73,"endTime":2790.5600000000004,"body":"to like, I'm not again, it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2791.4900000000002,"endTime":2793.6800000000003,"body":"March, I will be safe spaces."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2791.4900000000002,"endTime":2793.6800000000003,"body":"And I think those are really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2793.6800000000003,"endTime":2795.75,"body":"important, you know, but it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2793.6800000000003,"endTime":2795.75,"body":"like, I think that there's a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2795.75,"endTime":2799.53,"body":"kind of difference between"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2795.75,"endTime":2799.53,"body":"coming to other people like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2799.53,"endTime":2801.69,"body":"yourself and sharing your"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2799.53,"endTime":2801.69,"body":"experiences and feeling safe for"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2801.69,"endTime":2805.6800000000003,"body":"a while. And like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2801.69,"endTime":2805.6800000000003,"body":"sort of pushing away. Other"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2805.6800000000003,"endTime":2806.9700000000003,"body":"people. Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2806.9700000000003,"endTime":2809.3100000000004,"body":"And see for whom,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2806.9700000000003,"endTime":2809.3100000000004,"body":"you know, in a way, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2809.3100000000004,"endTime":2813.09,"body":"if we're basing on this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2809.3100000000004,"endTime":2813.09,"body":"biological determinism, we're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2813.09,"endTime":2817.0800000000004,"body":"leaving out a lot of people. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2813.09,"endTime":2817.0800000000004,"body":"yeah, so even, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2817.0800000000004,"endTime":2820.4700000000003,"body":"spaces that should be safe in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2817.0800000000004,"endTime":2820.4700000000003,"body":"airports, they're not safe,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2820.4700000000003,"endTime":2825.9300000000003,"body":"because then there's all this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2820.4700000000003,"endTime":2825.9300000000003,"body":"kind of, honestly, kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2825.9300000000003,"endTime":2829.5600000000004,"body":"beaker bigotry and hate, which I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2825.9300000000003,"endTime":2829.5600000000004,"body":"understand it's protective,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2829.5600000000004,"endTime":2832.5600000000004,"body":"right? It's so much easier to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2829.5600000000004,"endTime":2832.5600000000004,"body":"think there is a big bad, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2832.5600000000004,"endTime":2835.4100000000003,"body":"brought up a second wave"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2832.5600000000004,"endTime":2835.4100000000003,"body":"feminists, right. So the penis"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2835.4100000000003,"endTime":2838.38,"body":"was the enemy. You know, there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2835.4100000000003,"endTime":2838.38,"body":"were people were like, political"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2838.38,"endTime":2842.7000000000003,"body":"lesbianism was the purest thing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2838.38,"endTime":2842.7000000000003,"body":"that you could do, right. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2842.7000000000003,"endTime":2847.05,"body":"also, I've seen people like very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2842.7000000000003,"endTime":2847.05,"body":"painfully women who had done"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2847.05,"endTime":2850.6200000000003,"body":"that, and then in their 40s, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2847.05,"endTime":2850.6200000000003,"body":"50s come to terms with their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2850.8300000000004,"endTime":2854.3100000000004,"body":"sexuality, because they fall in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2850.8300000000004,"endTime":2854.3100000000004,"body":"love with a sis male partner,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2854.52,"endTime":2857.3700000000003,"body":"you know, their community"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2854.52,"endTime":2857.3700000000003,"body":"falling apart, their support"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2857.3700000000003,"endTime":2862.3500000000004,"body":"system falling apart, the pain"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2857.3700000000003,"endTime":2862.3500000000004,"body":"of now, no longer belonging to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2862.3500000000004,"endTime":2865.8900000000003,"body":"queer community, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2862.3500000000004,"endTime":2865.8900000000003,"body":"some ways, and it's, it's just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2865.8900000000003,"endTime":2869.76,"body":"heartbreaking. I mean, I get the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2865.8900000000003,"endTime":2869.76,"body":"feeling as humans, we want a big"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2869.76,"endTime":2873.36,"body":"bad, right. There's nothing more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2869.76,"endTime":2873.36,"body":"satisfying than to read a book"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2873.36,"endTime":2877.0800000000004,"body":"or watch a movie where, yes,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2873.36,"endTime":2877.0800000000004,"body":"there's the big bad, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2877.0800000000004,"endTime":2880.92,"body":"the ultimate boss, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2877.0800000000004,"endTime":2880.92,"body":"like in games, but there is no"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2880.92,"endTime":2884.9700000000003,"body":"ultimate boss. Right. It's and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2880.92,"endTime":2884.9700000000003,"body":"that what I love about your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2884.9700000000003,"endTime":2886.23,"body":"book, you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2887.1000000000004,"endTime":2888.15,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2887.1000000000004,"endTime":2888.15,"body":"absolutely. And I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2888.57,"endTime":2890.88,"body":"you know, what I think is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2888.57,"endTime":2890.88,"body":"important and be topia is, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2890.88,"endTime":2894.84,"body":"you're right, that there's not"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2890.88,"endTime":2894.84,"body":"like a big bad and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2894.84,"endTime":2899.46,"body":"sometimes, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2894.84,"endTime":2899.46,"body":"characters in propping sky who,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2899.79,"endTime":2903.03,"body":"and again, to avoid spoilers, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2899.79,"endTime":2903.03,"body":"have viewpoints that I would"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2903.03,"endTime":2906.0600000000004,"body":"think are much less empathetic"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2903.03,"endTime":2906.0600000000004,"body":"than others. But it's something"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2906.09,"endTime":2909.4500000000003,"body":"I always tried to go in with"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2906.09,"endTime":2909.4500000000003,"body":"understanding where this comes"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2909.4500000000003,"endTime":2913.8900000000003,"body":"from, and why is this and this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2909.4500000000003,"endTime":2913.8900000000003,"body":"particular character, lovey in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2913.8900000000003,"endTime":2919.05,"body":"the book who, honestly, I put a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2913.8900000000003,"endTime":2919.05,"body":"lot of sunlight darker thoughts."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2920.55,"endTime":2924.75,"body":"You know, but it's, again, it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2920.55,"endTime":2924.75,"body":"something that I really, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2924.75,"endTime":2928.17,"body":"believe in, in many ways that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2924.75,"endTime":2928.17,"body":"this person's position can be"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2928.17,"endTime":2931.0800000000004,"body":"understood. It's, but it has"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2928.17,"endTime":2931.0800000000004,"body":"these kind of very dark"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2931.0800000000004,"endTime":2938.73,"body":"manifestations. Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2931.0800000000004,"endTime":2938.73,"body":"think that I Sorry, I had, I was"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2938.73,"endTime":2942.21,"body":"in Brighton recently, and doing"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2938.73,"endTime":2942.21,"body":"reading a novel and I met up"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2942.21,"endTime":2950.4900000000002,"body":"with MJ who I think, yeah. I've"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2942.21,"endTime":2950.4900000000002,"body":"always, always loved meeting"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2950.4900000000002,"endTime":2955.8900000000003,"body":"with MJ, and we were talking"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2950.4900000000002,"endTime":2955.8900000000003,"body":"about, you know, this kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2955.92,"endTime":2960.0600000000004,"body":"desire to single out specific"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2955.92,"endTime":2960.0600000000004,"body":"people or single out specific,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2960.1800000000003,"endTime":2962.6400000000003,"body":"you know, because it's like it's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2960.1800000000003,"endTime":2962.6400000000003,"body":"visible, it's like vanquish"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2962.6400000000003,"endTime":2966.9300000000003,"body":"bubble. But in reality, what"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2962.6400000000003,"endTime":2966.9300000000003,"body":"we're dealing with it forces and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2966.9300000000003,"endTime":2970.29,"body":"traumas, like manifesting"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2966.9300000000003,"endTime":2970.29,"body":"through individual people, but"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2970.29,"endTime":2974.79,"body":"it's not really about those"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2970.29,"endTime":2974.79,"body":"people, you know, like, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2974.79,"endTime":2976.77,"body":"that's something else that, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2974.79,"endTime":2976.77,"body":"know, I kind of wanted to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2976.77,"endTime":2981.0,"body":"explore in the book was like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2976.77,"endTime":2981.0,"body":"how do these How does trauma"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2981.0,"endTime":2984.96,"body":"wind up influencing kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2981.0,"endTime":2984.96,"body":"oppression? How does trauma"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2984.96,"endTime":2989.8500000000004,"body":"generally oppression, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2984.96,"endTime":2989.8500000000004,"body":"and you're probably getting off"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":2989.8500000000004,"endTime":2990.57,"body":"master tangent?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2991.4100000000003,"endTime":2994.6200000000003,"body":"No, that's yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2991.4100000000003,"endTime":2994.6200000000003,"body":"that's a great tangent because I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2994.6200000000003,"endTime":2997.5,"body":"think that it has a lot to do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2994.6200000000003,"endTime":2997.5,"body":"with trauma right? If I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2997.5,"endTime":3000.8,"body":"about you know, my own"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2997.5,"endTime":3000.8,"body":"experiences as survivor, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3000.8,"endTime":3004.67,"body":"words an appeal in some ways and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3000.8,"endTime":3004.67,"body":"second wave feminism in like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3004.7000000000003,"endTime":3009.05,"body":"you know, this is bad because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3004.7000000000003,"endTime":3009.05,"body":"males you know, and sis males"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3009.05,"endTime":3011.8700000000003,"body":"that meant at the time are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3009.05,"endTime":3011.8700000000003,"body":"perpetrators and aggressors, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3011.8700000000003,"endTime":3015.59,"body":"there was a part of me that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3011.8700000000003,"endTime":3015.59,"body":"could never fully buy into that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3015.59,"endTime":3018.1400000000003,"body":"probably because of my own trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3015.59,"endTime":3018.1400000000003,"body":"identity, right, even though I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3018.1400000000003,"endTime":3021.98,"body":"was still finding my own voice"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3018.1400000000003,"endTime":3021.98,"body":"to that and also because I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3021.98,"endTime":3025.3700000000003,"body":"never into those extremes. There"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3021.98,"endTime":3025.3700000000003,"body":"was a part of me that always"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3025.3700000000003,"endTime":3029.84,"body":"resisted this dichotomy. So it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3025.3700000000003,"endTime":3029.84,"body":"felt to felt to narrow it felt"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3029.84,"endTime":3033.53,"body":"too limiting, right. And I also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3029.84,"endTime":3033.53,"body":"understand, like, have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3033.53,"endTime":3036.26,"body":"compassion. Question for Oh, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3033.53,"endTime":3036.26,"body":"see where you're at as you're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3036.26,"endTime":3039.92,"body":"hurting as you're trying to keep"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3036.26,"endTime":3039.92,"body":"yourself safe. By in keeping"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3039.92,"endTime":3044.9,"body":"yourself safe. You're actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3039.92,"endTime":3044.9,"body":"now inflicting pain and, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3044.9,"endTime":3048.11,"body":"lateral violence and trauma"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3044.9,"endTime":3048.11,"body":"potentially on other people."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3048.11,"endTime":3052.73,"body":"Right. And that's kind of in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3048.11,"endTime":3052.73,"body":"way our trauma perpetuates if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3052.73,"endTime":3057.17,"body":"we're not careful, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3052.73,"endTime":3057.17,"body":"while I've been a victim and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3057.17,"endTime":3059.8100000000004,"body":"those people over there the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3057.17,"endTime":3059.8100000000004,"body":"perpetrators, so there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3059.8100000000004,"endTime":3064.3100000000004,"body":"nothing, right that I could say"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3059.8100000000004,"endTime":3064.3100000000004,"body":"or do that is bad enough. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3064.34,"endTime":3069.26,"body":"But actually, there is, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3064.34,"endTime":3069.26,"body":"Because not, you know, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3069.26,"endTime":3072.7400000000002,"body":"of this confusing, almost the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3069.26,"endTime":3072.7400000000002,"body":"micro with the macro, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3072.7400000000002,"endTime":3076.52,"body":"It's like not, not any one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3072.7400000000002,"endTime":3076.52,"body":"category can be seen as evil,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3076.52,"endTime":3080.36,"body":"because that takes away our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3076.52,"endTime":3080.36,"body":"humanity is dehumanizing."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3081.1400000000003,"endTime":3083.3,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3081.1400000000003,"endTime":3083.3,"body":"I think there's a really, really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3083.3,"endTime":3089.27,"body":"good good point that you made"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3083.3,"endTime":3089.27,"body":"with that, like with kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3089.27,"endTime":3094.88,"body":"having this idea that evil is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3089.27,"endTime":3094.88,"body":"elsewhere. And I was in my"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3094.88,"endTime":3099.77,"body":"teenage years, I was part of a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3094.88,"endTime":3099.77,"body":"homophobic Christian evangelical"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3099.77,"endTime":3107.84,"body":"movement, which was, had its own"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3099.77,"endTime":3107.84,"body":"breed of trauma. And one thing"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3107.84,"endTime":3111.4700000000003,"body":"that I noticed among that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3107.84,"endTime":3111.4700000000003,"body":"community was, the evil was"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3111.4700000000003,"endTime":3116.09,"body":"always somewhere else, that evil"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3111.4700000000003,"endTime":3116.09,"body":"was coming from Satan, from the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3116.09,"endTime":3120.26,"body":"bad people from the people in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3116.09,"endTime":3120.26,"body":"society who are ungodly. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3120.44,"endTime":3122.9900000000002,"body":"when you do that, and I think"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3120.44,"endTime":3122.9900000000002,"body":"that this, the same mentality"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3122.9900000000002,"endTime":3126.23,"body":"can exist if you're not careful"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3122.9900000000002,"endTime":3126.23,"body":"when you are part of a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3126.23,"endTime":3128.78,"body":"marginalized group, and you're"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3126.23,"endTime":3128.78,"body":"like, well, the evil is men are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3128.8100000000004,"endTime":3131.57,"body":"evil is straight people. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3128.8100000000004,"endTime":3131.57,"body":"there are critiques of men and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3131.57,"endTime":3137.9,"body":"strictly. But it's what happens,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3131.57,"endTime":3137.9,"body":"I think, when you do that, is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3137.9,"endTime":3142.46,"body":"you erase the idea of your own"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3137.9,"endTime":3142.46,"body":"capacity for evil? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3142.46,"endTime":3145.79,"body":"exactly. You know, like, it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3142.46,"endTime":3145.79,"body":"reminds me of this kind of this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3145.79,"endTime":3148.19,"body":"community that used to be part"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3145.79,"endTime":3148.19,"body":"of because like, they really,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3148.19,"endTime":3151.19,"body":"really would, you can do kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3148.19,"endTime":3151.19,"body":"awful things, you can treat"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3151.19,"endTime":3154.5800000000004,"body":"people terribly, and you won't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3151.19,"endTime":3154.5800000000004,"body":"really ever question yourself,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3154.5800000000004,"endTime":3157.52,"body":"because you err on the side of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3154.5800000000004,"endTime":3157.52,"body":"good, and you're not part of the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3157.52,"endTime":3161.1800000000003,"body":"evil. And I think that that can"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3157.52,"endTime":3161.1800000000003,"body":"lead to some of like humanity's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3161.1800000000003,"endTime":3164.75,"body":"most destructive impulses. And I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3161.1800000000003,"endTime":3164.75,"body":"also think that that's, that can"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3164.75,"endTime":3168.6200000000003,"body":"be a problem tying it back to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3164.75,"endTime":3168.6200000000003,"body":"sci fi genres, that can be a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3168.6200000000003,"endTime":3173.63,"body":"problem with utopian thinking,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3168.6200000000003,"endTime":3173.63,"body":"you know, it creates this idea"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3173.63,"endTime":3177.44,"body":"that, that evil is something"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3173.63,"endTime":3177.44,"body":"else that it can be eradicated,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3177.44,"endTime":3179.3,"body":"that it's not something that we"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3177.44,"endTime":3179.3,"body":"always have to question"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3179.3,"endTime":3183.23,"body":"ourselves about. You know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3179.3,"endTime":3183.23,"body":"and I think we've seen like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3183.23,"endTime":3186.26,"body":"throughout history as well, this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3183.23,"endTime":3186.26,"body":"idea that, like, if we take,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3186.26,"endTime":3191.27,"body":"like a very, very fixed idea of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3186.26,"endTime":3191.27,"body":"class, for example, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3191.3,"endTime":3193.7000000000003,"body":"there can be this idea that if"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3191.3,"endTime":3193.7000000000003,"body":"we just, if we just take"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3193.7000000000003,"endTime":3197.2400000000002,"body":"everything away from the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3193.7000000000003,"endTime":3197.2400000000002,"body":"capitalist class, then you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3197.2400000000002,"endTime":3200.21,"body":"that evil will be fixed. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3197.2400000000002,"endTime":3200.21,"body":"we'll have like a utopia. And,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3200.4500000000003,"endTime":3203.1200000000003,"body":"you know, it's I'm not, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3200.4500000000003,"endTime":3203.1200000000003,"body":"saying it's a great sense of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3203.1200000000003,"endTime":3206.54,"body":"cuts of capitalism, but like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3203.1200000000003,"endTime":3206.54,"body":"the problem with that kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3206.54,"endTime":3209.8700000000003,"body":"mentality is that it then allows"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3206.54,"endTime":3209.8700000000003,"body":"for atrocity, you know, and this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3209.8700000000003,"endTime":3212.54,"body":"is a much bigger scale than say,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3209.8700000000003,"endTime":3212.54,"body":"like, you know, gay or lesbian"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3212.54,"endTime":3217.88,"body":"communities. But we always,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3212.54,"endTime":3217.88,"body":"always have to be able to look"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3218.6000000000004,"endTime":3221.63,"body":"for the evil within ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3218.6000000000004,"endTime":3221.63,"body":"you know, for to actually watch"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3221.63,"endTime":3225.6200000000003,"body":"out for, well, what is, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3221.63,"endTime":3225.6200000000003,"body":"know, because we will get"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3225.6200000000003,"endTime":3228.0800000000004,"body":"afraid, we will get scared, we"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3225.6200000000003,"endTime":3228.0800000000004,"body":"will get angry. And we all have"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3228.0800000000004,"endTime":3230.48,"body":"the capacity to do terrible"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3228.0800000000004,"endTime":3230.48,"body":"things, while in those frames of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3230.48,"endTime":3230.69,"body":"mind."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3232.2200000000003,"endTime":3235.13,"body":"Absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3232.2200000000003,"endTime":3235.13,"body":"think that part of the healing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3235.13,"endTime":3239.75,"body":"from trauma for me is kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3235.13,"endTime":3239.75,"body":"claiming agency and power and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3239.75,"endTime":3242.21,"body":"coming to terms with the fact"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3239.75,"endTime":3242.21,"body":"that actually any human,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3242.4500000000003,"endTime":3245.4500000000003,"body":"including ourselves had the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3242.4500000000003,"endTime":3245.4500000000003,"body":"capacity to hurt other people,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3245.78,"endTime":3249.11,"body":"you know, both intentionally and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3245.78,"endTime":3249.11,"body":"unintentionally. And actually we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3249.11,"endTime":3253.4900000000002,"body":"do, and what the best we can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3249.11,"endTime":3253.4900000000002,"body":"hope for is not to do it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3253.4900000000002,"endTime":3256.73,"body":"intentionally. And the best we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3253.4900000000002,"endTime":3256.73,"body":"can hope for is some when we do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3256.73,"endTime":3259.76,"body":"and intentionally is not too"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3256.73,"endTime":3259.76,"body":"terrible, and that there is the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3259.76,"endTime":3265.4300000000003,"body":"possibility for repair. Right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3259.76,"endTime":3265.4300000000003,"body":"And the love, like how sci fi is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3265.4300000000003,"endTime":3268.4,"body":"starting to explore that, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3265.4300000000003,"endTime":3268.4,"body":"think, in a lot of ways, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3268.4,"endTime":3271.3700000000003,"body":"that I think there are lots of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3268.4,"endTime":3271.3700000000003,"body":"wonderful writers that explored"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3271.3700000000003,"endTime":3275.75,"body":"that much more nuanced, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3271.3700000000003,"endTime":3275.75,"body":"from Octavia Butler to the much"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3275.75,"endTime":3279.1400000000003,"body":"more kind of dominant culture,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3275.75,"endTime":3279.1400000000003,"body":"Doctor Who, right, there are so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3279.1400000000003,"endTime":3283.46,"body":"many moments specially in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3279.1400000000003,"endTime":3283.46,"body":"latest kind of season, where in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3283.46,"endTime":3287.6600000000003,"body":"the one before where there could"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3283.46,"endTime":3287.6600000000003,"body":"be, you know, the doctor could"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3287.6600000000003,"endTime":3291.92,"body":"turn towards destruction of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3287.6600000000003,"endTime":3291.92,"body":"enemy, but cannot because that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3291.92,"endTime":3295.94,"body":"not who she is, right? And so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3291.92,"endTime":3295.94,"body":"it's just like this, this very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3295.94,"endTime":3301.1000000000004,"body":"human struggle, right? Like this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3295.94,"endTime":3301.1000000000004,"body":"very human struggle of like, is,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3301.13,"endTime":3304.67,"body":"when is it okay to hurt somebody"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3301.13,"endTime":3304.67,"body":"else? When you say, okay to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3304.67,"endTime":3308.51,"body":"obliterate somebody else, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3304.67,"endTime":3308.51,"body":"When is it? Okay, like all those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3308.51,"endTime":3312.6200000000003,"body":"big existential questions that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3308.51,"endTime":3312.6200000000003,"body":"get explored in speculative"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3312.6200000000003,"endTime":3315.9500000000003,"body":"fiction, which are very much"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3312.6200000000003,"endTime":3315.9500000000003,"body":"also in your book, and that I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3315.9500000000003,"endTime":3318.7400000000002,"body":"think that's what I love about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3315.9500000000003,"endTime":3318.7400000000002,"body":"is that there are very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3319.19,"endTime":3322.94,"body":"existential themes in a way that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3319.19,"endTime":3322.94,"body":"you explore."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3324.0800000000004,"endTime":3326.54,"body":"Yeah, it's,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3324.0800000000004,"endTime":3326.54,"body":"I mean, it's the kind of hobby"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3326.54,"endTime":3326.9,"body":"avoided."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3328.61,"endTime":3331.46,"body":"You really can't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3328.61,"endTime":3331.46,"body":"avoid existential themes. That's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3331.46,"endTime":3336.98,"body":"fair. That is it I mean, some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3331.46,"endTime":3336.98,"body":"people sometimes do, but really,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3336.98,"endTime":3340.5800000000004,"body":"it's pretty hard to do to avoid"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3336.98,"endTime":3340.5800000000004,"body":"existential themes. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3342.17,"endTime":3343.4300000000003,"body":"And I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3342.17,"endTime":3343.4300000000003,"body":"think, you know, I think that a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3343.4300000000003,"endTime":3346.1000000000004,"body":"lot of what we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3343.4300000000003,"endTime":3346.1000000000004,"body":"about, you know, these, they're"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3346.1000000000004,"endTime":3348.23,"body":"not things that are limited to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3346.1000000000004,"endTime":3348.23,"body":"any one group, and again, you"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3348.23,"endTime":3352.25,"body":"know, was propping sky. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3348.23,"endTime":3352.25,"body":"it's a novel about the world's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3352.25,"endTime":3356.78,"body":"first gay lesbian staid. But"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3352.25,"endTime":3356.78,"body":"more than that, it's a novel"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3356.78,"endTime":3361.79,"body":"about trauma. It's a novel"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3356.78,"endTime":3361.79,"body":"about, you know, oppression,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3361.82,"endTime":3365.09,"body":"it's a novel about group"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3361.82,"endTime":3365.09,"body":"identity. And, you know, those"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3365.09,"endTime":3367.46,"body":"are things that I think that all"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3365.09,"endTime":3367.46,"body":"of us in different ways can"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3367.46,"endTime":3371.48,"body":"relate to, you know, it's not"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3367.46,"endTime":3371.48,"body":"something that is limited to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3371.48,"endTime":3374.21,"body":"LGBTQ groups, by all means, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3371.48,"endTime":3374.21,"body":"think that these are, these are"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3374.21,"endTime":3375.7400000000002,"body":"very, very human things."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3376.04,"endTime":3378.9500000000003,"body":"Absolutely. So I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3376.04,"endTime":3378.9500000000003,"body":"feel like I could have this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3378.9500000000003,"endTime":3381.77,"body":"conversation forever, as I do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3378.9500000000003,"endTime":3381.77,"body":"with pretty much all of my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3381.77,"endTime":3384.17,"body":"guests, but I want to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3381.77,"endTime":3384.17,"body":"respectful of your time. The"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3384.17,"endTime":3389.4500000000003,"body":"last thing I want to talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3384.17,"endTime":3389.4500000000003,"body":"is actually pride. And now it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3389.4500000000003,"endTime":3393.38,"body":"handled in proud pins sky,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3389.4500000000003,"endTime":3393.38,"body":"because we are coming into Pride"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3393.38,"endTime":3398.84,"body":"Month. And so it seems very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3393.38,"endTime":3398.84,"body":"seasonally appropriate. To kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3398.84,"endTime":3403.19,"body":"of talk a little about what's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3398.84,"endTime":3403.19,"body":"Pride Month, like in the gay"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3403.19,"endTime":3407.42,"body":"Republic, you know, in an LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3403.19,"endTime":3407.42,"body":"plus state? Well, one meaning"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3407.42,"endTime":3410.84,"body":"best pride I have in this kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3407.42,"endTime":3410.84,"body":"of alternative, kind of queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3410.84,"endTime":3412.61,"body":"history timeline, let's call it"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3414.4100000000003,"endTime":3415.6400000000003,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3414.4100000000003,"endTime":3415.6400000000003,"body":"mean, that's the thing is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3415.67,"endTime":3418.13,"body":"because it's, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3415.67,"endTime":3418.13,"body":"world's first game has been"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3418.13,"endTime":3421.88,"body":"stay, you know, pride and the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3418.13,"endTime":3421.88,"body":"celebration of pride, almost,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3421.88,"endTime":3424.55,"body":"because it's also like, kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3421.88,"endTime":3424.55,"body":"a national holiday, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3424.55,"endTime":3430.6400000000003,"body":"it's kind of like, the Fourth of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3424.55,"endTime":3430.6400000000003,"body":"July of this K State. And so,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3430.6400000000003,"endTime":3433.3100000000004,"body":"you know, it's something that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3430.6400000000003,"endTime":3433.3100000000004,"body":"within the novel is, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3433.3100000000004,"endTime":3435.71,"body":"huge amount of festivities"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3433.3100000000004,"endTime":3435.71,"body":"decorations, you know, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3435.71,"endTime":3443.21,"body":"of the biggest holiday of the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3435.71,"endTime":3443.21,"body":"year, in the Merlin novel. And,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3443.3,"endTime":3446.3900000000003,"body":"yeah, that's, you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3443.3,"endTime":3446.3900000000003,"body":"I've always had a kind of very,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3446.3900000000003,"endTime":3451.4900000000002,"body":"very mixed relationship with"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3446.3900000000003,"endTime":3451.4900000000002,"body":"pride myself. So I was part of a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3451.4900000000002,"endTime":3455.69,"body":"group that helped establish"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3451.4900000000002,"endTime":3455.69,"body":"Swansea is first its city in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3455.69,"endTime":3460.5800000000004,"body":"South Wales. First gay pride."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3455.69,"endTime":3460.5800000000004,"body":"LGBTQ pride, it was we did"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3460.5800000000004,"endTime":3465.38,"body":"consciously into two groups. It"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3460.5800000000004,"endTime":3465.38,"body":"didn't want to get remembered as"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3465.38,"endTime":3467.69,"body":"that because they wound up being"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3465.38,"endTime":3467.69,"body":"a commercial. I came along a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3467.69,"endTime":3469.73,"body":"couple years later, that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3467.69,"endTime":3469.73,"body":"advertised itself as the first"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3469.73,"endTime":3477.6200000000003,"body":"but we had like our own, like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3469.73,"endTime":3477.6200000000003,"body":"much less well funded. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3477.65,"endTime":3480.32,"body":"I, I went to pride in Cardiff"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3477.65,"endTime":3480.32,"body":"and then moving to Berlin and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3480.32,"endTime":3486.38,"body":"Berlin, has multiple. And this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3480.32,"endTime":3486.38,"body":"the big mainstream commercial"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3486.38,"endTime":3489.2000000000003,"body":"pride, which, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3486.38,"endTime":3489.2000000000003,"body":"honestly have never actually"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3489.2000000000003,"endTime":3493.2200000000003,"body":"gone because I've just never"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3489.2000000000003,"endTime":3493.2200000000003,"body":"really connected with with the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3493.2200000000003,"endTime":3495.2000000000003,"body":"kind of mainstream pride events,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3493.2200000000003,"endTime":3495.2000000000003,"body":"I think they're important, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3495.2000000000003,"endTime":3498.1400000000003,"body":"think that people should really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3495.2000000000003,"endTime":3498.1400000000003,"body":"go and enjoy themselves, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3498.1400000000003,"endTime":3501.65,"body":"really have a not against this"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3498.1400000000003,"endTime":3501.65,"body":"kind of mainstream prides, but I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3501.65,"endTime":3508.28,"body":"just never really felt the kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3501.65,"endTime":3508.28,"body":"of energy of them somehow there"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3508.28,"endTime":3511.04,"body":"was a kind of queer pride that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3508.28,"endTime":3511.04,"body":"that used to take place in the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3511.04,"endTime":3514.1000000000004,"body":"city. But then, you know, kind"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3511.04,"endTime":3514.1000000000004,"body":"of vitriol, left wing infighting"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3514.46,"endTime":3516.38,"body":"destroyed it, but that was a"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3514.46,"endTime":3516.38,"body":"beautiful event that used to"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3516.38,"endTime":3520.55,"body":"take place in my neighborhood."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3516.38,"endTime":3520.55,"body":"And it would be you know, 1000s"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3520.55,"endTime":3523.76,"body":"of queer people and just"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3520.55,"endTime":3523.76,"body":"beautiful atmosphere, but also"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3523.9100000000003,"endTime":3526.3700000000003,"body":"included everyone you know, so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3523.9100000000003,"endTime":3526.3700000000003,"body":"it wasn't very commercial."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3527.15,"endTime":3530.9900000000002,"body":"That's kind of been replaced in"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3527.15,"endTime":3530.9900000000002,"body":"Berlin with the Dyke March,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3531.02,"endTime":3535.82,"body":"which is this very, very queer"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3531.02,"endTime":3535.82,"body":"inclusive, sort of lesbian queer"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3535.82,"endTime":3539.57,"body":"March, which I went on last year"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3535.82,"endTime":3539.57,"body":"includes people of all genders"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3539.57,"endTime":3543.7400000000002,"body":"so it's really really lovely"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3539.57,"endTime":3543.7400000000002,"body":"event. So yeah, I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3543.9500000000003,"endTime":3548.75,"body":"there can be so many things that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3543.9500000000003,"endTime":3548.75,"body":"are prior there's my point in so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3548.75,"endTime":3551.48,"body":"many different ways of doing it,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3548.75,"endTime":3551.48,"body":"you can have the kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3551.78,"endTime":3556.1600000000003,"body":"corporate sponsored, very"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3551.78,"endTime":3556.1600000000003,"body":"flashy, very big pride, you can"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3556.1600000000003,"endTime":3561.5600000000004,"body":"have the kind of DIY, you know,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3556.1600000000003,"endTime":3561.5600000000004,"body":"sort of put on your best"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3561.5600000000004,"endTime":3564.44,"body":"dressing up clothes, and like,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3561.5600000000004,"endTime":3564.44,"body":"all just come together and just"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3564.4700000000003,"endTime":3567.9500000000003,"body":"have a messy time. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3564.4700000000003,"endTime":3567.9500000000003,"body":"everything in between. and In"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3567.9500000000003,"endTime":3571.19,"body":"the novel, you know, it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3567.9500000000003,"endTime":3571.19,"body":"even though it's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3571.19,"endTime":3573.86,"body":"state function, I still kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3571.19,"endTime":3573.86,"body":"wanted to serve this idea that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3573.86,"endTime":3577.73,"body":"like, pride isn't one thing that"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3573.86,"endTime":3577.73,"body":"there's like all of these like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3578.3300000000004,"endTime":3581.6600000000003,"body":"1000s and 1000s of different"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3578.3300000000004,"endTime":3581.6600000000003,"body":"prides like happening around"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3581.6600000000003,"endTime":3584.0600000000004,"body":"this time, just like in our"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3581.6600000000003,"endTime":3584.0600000000004,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3584.7200000000003,"endTime":3586.61,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3584.7200000000003,"endTime":3586.61,"body":"because in a way that that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3586.61,"endTime":3590.36,"body":"corporate pride, and I could be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3586.61,"endTime":3590.36,"body":"wrong, but it feels it's almost"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3590.36,"endTime":3594.29,"body":"replaced by this kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3590.36,"endTime":3594.29,"body":"nationalist pride, right in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3594.29,"endTime":3597.4100000000003,"body":"book because like you said, it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3594.29,"endTime":3597.4100000000003,"body":"is like the Fourth of July kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3597.4100000000003,"endTime":3601.19,"body":"of celebration for the gay and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3597.4100000000003,"endTime":3601.19,"body":"lesbian Republic. And so yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3601.19,"endTime":3604.94,"body":"love what you talked about that."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3601.19,"endTime":3604.94,"body":"It is so many things and in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3604.94,"endTime":3609.53,"body":"way, it's an experience of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3604.94,"endTime":3609.53,"body":"connection and celebration, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3609.53,"endTime":3612.05,"body":"what happens when we cannot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3609.53,"endTime":3612.05,"body":"connect and celebrate for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3612.05,"endTime":3616.04,"body":"whatever reason, right? And so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3612.05,"endTime":3616.04,"body":"how do we then find new ways to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3616.04,"endTime":3620.7200000000003,"body":"connect and celebrate? You know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3616.04,"endTime":3620.7200000000003,"body":"and, and that that process in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3620.7200000000003,"endTime":3624.4100000000003,"body":"way, it's never ending, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3620.7200000000003,"endTime":3624.4100000000003,"body":"Because also things transform."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3626.42,"endTime":3629.42,"body":"And again, I could keep talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3626.42,"endTime":3629.42,"body":"about this, but I'm gonna be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3629.42,"endTime":3632.1800000000003,"body":"respectful of your time and the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3629.42,"endTime":3632.1800000000003,"body":"listeners time and so I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3632.1800000000003,"endTime":3635.48,"body":"ask you the last question that I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3632.1800000000003,"endTime":3635.48,"body":"always ask, which is, is there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3635.48,"endTime":3638.8700000000003,"body":"anything that I have not asked"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3635.48,"endTime":3638.8700000000003,"body":"you about, that you are really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3638.8700000000003,"endTime":3643.3100000000004,"body":"hoping to talk about or to make"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3638.8700000000003,"endTime":3643.3100000000004,"body":"sure you communicate it to the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3643.3100000000004,"endTime":3645.8300000000004,"body":"listeners and viewers have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3643.3100000000004,"endTime":3645.8300000000004,"body":"gender stories?"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3648.319,"endTime":3653.509,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3648.319,"endTime":3653.509,"body":"we've covered a lot. There. I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3653.509,"endTime":3656.9590000000003,"body":"genuinely, I've just enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3653.509,"endTime":3656.9590000000003,"body":"this conversation so much that I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3656.9590000000003,"endTime":3659.6890000000003,"body":"can't think of I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3656.9590000000003,"endTime":3659.6890000000003,"body":"probably like, five minutes"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3659.6890000000003,"endTime":3666.949,"body":"after we sign off or something."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3659.6890000000003,"endTime":3666.949,"body":"Yeah, I, again, I really can't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3666.949,"endTime":3669.799,"body":"hear anyway, I think this has"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3666.949,"endTime":3669.799,"body":"been a really, really great and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3669.799,"endTime":3671.389,"body":"wider discussion. I've really"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3669.799,"endTime":3671.389,"body":"enjoyed it."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3671.6600000000003,"endTime":3673.88,"body":"Yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3671.6600000000003,"endTime":3673.88,"body":"really fun and other men to put"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3673.88,"endTime":3676.3700000000003,"body":"you on the spot. I always just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3673.88,"endTime":3676.3700000000003,"body":"want to make sure that if there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3676.3700000000003,"endTime":3680.15,"body":"is anything, you know, you'll"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3676.3700000000003,"endTime":3680.15,"body":"get to communicate it to folks."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3680.42,"endTime":3684.29,"body":"And if people want to find out"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3680.42,"endTime":3684.29,"body":"more about you and your work and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3684.29,"endTime":3687.1400000000003,"body":"want to get your book because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3684.29,"endTime":3687.1400000000003,"body":"now they're all excited to read"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3687.1400000000003,"endTime":3691.19,"body":"about this book, where could"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3687.1400000000003,"endTime":3691.19,"body":"they find out more about you? Or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3691.19,"endTime":3693.5600000000004,"body":"follow you on social media or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3691.19,"endTime":3693.5600000000004,"body":"get the book from?"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3694.94,"endTime":3698.3900000000003,"body":"So there's"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3694.94,"endTime":3698.3900000000003,"body":"my website, which is kind of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3698.3900000000003,"endTime":3703.7000000000003,"body":"simple thing. And it has a very"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3698.3900000000003,"endTime":3703.7000000000003,"body":"short URL, it's read john.com."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3703.8500000000004,"endTime":3711.6200000000003,"body":"So RBD jln.com I on Macedon at"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3703.8500000000004,"endTime":3711.6200000000003,"body":"Redfin. I'm in the main"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3711.6200000000003,"endTime":3717.59,"body":"instance, the Macedon social."},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3711.6200000000003,"endTime":3717.59,"body":"And yeah, that my publisher is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3718.79,"endTime":3721.8500000000004,"body":"by white sample press, which is"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3718.79,"endTime":3721.8500000000004,"body":"an imprint of Bywater books, so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3721.8500000000004,"endTime":3725.09,"body":"you can get funding on their"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3721.8500000000004,"endTime":3725.09,"body":"website. Oh, and there was one"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3725.09,"endTime":3728.78,"body":"thing I mentioned, a friend of"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3725.09,"endTime":3728.78,"body":"mine made this incredible"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3728.78,"endTime":3732.05,"body":"trailer for the novel that like"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3728.78,"endTime":3732.05,"body":"I absolutely love and couldn't"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3732.05,"endTime":3735.92,"body":"be happier with. And if you just"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3732.05,"endTime":3735.92,"body":"go into Google into YouTube, and"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3735.92,"endTime":3740.8700000000003,"body":"just search pro pink sky, the"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3735.92,"endTime":3740.8700000000003,"body":"trailer will come up and like, I"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3740.8700000000003,"endTime":3743.51,"body":"love that trailer. Really,"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3740.8700000000003,"endTime":3743.51,"body":"really happy with it. It's so"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3743.8100000000004,"endTime":3749.57,"body":"cinematic and exciting. And"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3743.8100000000004,"endTime":3749.57,"body":"yeah, so I mean, if all else"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3749.57,"endTime":3755.48,"body":"fails, like just Googling"},{"speaker":"Redfern Jon Barrett","startTime":3749.57,"endTime":3755.48,"body":"propping Skype. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3755.78,"endTime":3758.03,"body":"now I have to go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3755.78,"endTime":3758.03,"body":"find that trailer and I will"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3758.03,"endTime":3763.67,"body":"connect it in the description."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3758.03,"endTime":3763.67,"body":"Oh, yeah. Video trailers for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3763.67,"endTime":3767.09,"body":"books are awesome. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3763.67,"endTime":3767.09,"body":"I've been thinking about making"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3767.09,"endTime":3770.27,"body":"one and then it feels too"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3767.09,"endTime":3770.27,"body":"complicated. But I'm excited now"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3770.27,"endTime":3774.4100000000003,"body":"to watch the video trailer."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3770.27,"endTime":3774.4100000000003,"body":"Well, thank you so much. This"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3774.4100000000003,"endTime":3778.01,"body":"has been such a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3774.4100000000003,"endTime":3778.01,"body":"conversations and listeners and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3778.01,"endTime":3780.23,"body":"now viewers of gender stories."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3778.01,"endTime":3780.23,"body":"If you're watching us on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3780.23,"endTime":3783.86,"body":"YouTube, please get hold of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3780.23,"endTime":3783.86,"body":"proud pink sky, especially if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3783.86,"endTime":3787.04,"body":"you love speculative fiction."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3783.86,"endTime":3787.04,"body":"But even if you have never read"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3787.04,"endTime":3790.8500000000004,"body":"speculative fiction, give it a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3787.04,"endTime":3790.8500000000004,"body":"go. Because there is just so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3790.88,"endTime":3794.2400000000002,"body":"much goodness, as you heard so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3790.88,"endTime":3794.2400000000002,"body":"many themes. Exactly. Show that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3794.2400000000002,"endTime":3797.8100000000004,"body":"beautiful cover again."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3794.2400000000002,"endTime":3797.8100000000004,"body":"Absolutely. I would show it If I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3797.8100000000004,"endTime":3802.3100000000004,"body":"could but I only read the PDF."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3797.8100000000004,"endTime":3802.3100000000004,"body":"So it is a beautiful cover. You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3802.3100000000004,"endTime":3806.69,"body":"know that's nice, like those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3802.3100000000004,"endTime":3806.69,"body":"purples that ask yours love. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3806.69,"endTime":3811.1600000000003,"body":"so yeah, read proud pink sky and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3806.69,"endTime":3811.1600000000003,"body":"watch out for more on red fence"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3811.1600000000003,"endTime":3815.3900000000003,"body":"work. And thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3811.1600000000003,"endTime":3815.3900000000003,"body":"spending time with us today."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3815.3900000000003,"endTime":3818.54,"body":"This was great. Until next time,"}]}