{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":37.01,"endTime":38.72,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":37.01,"endTime":38.72,"body":"welcome to another episode of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":38.72,"endTime":43.76,"body":"gender stories. And I, as ever,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":38.72,"endTime":43.76,"body":"I know I'm always excited, but I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":43.76,"endTime":48.31999999999999,"body":"really am excited to be talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":43.76,"endTime":48.31999999999999,"body":"today with Professor K Allison"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":48.31999999999999,"endTime":51.379999999999995,"body":"Hummer, who is assistant"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":48.31999999999999,"endTime":51.379999999999995,"body":"professor and coordinator of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":51.379999999999995,"endTime":54.949999999999996,"body":"women Gender and Sexuality"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":51.379999999999995,"endTime":54.949999999999996,"body":"Studies of Southern Illinois"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":54.949999999999996,"endTime":58.81999999999999,"body":"University, as well as having"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":54.949999999999996,"endTime":58.81999999999999,"body":"published a book that I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":58.81999999999999,"endTime":62.66,"body":"just came out yesterday,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":58.81999999999999,"endTime":62.66,"body":"actually October 17. Masculinity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":62.66,"endTime":65.33,"body":"and transition, which I'm very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":62.66,"endTime":65.33,"body":"excited to be talking with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":65.33,"endTime":69.14,"body":"Allison about. They've also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":65.33,"endTime":69.14,"body":"published extensively in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":69.14,"endTime":72.86,"body":"academic journals, ranging from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":69.14,"endTime":72.86,"body":"Disability Strategy studies,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":72.86,"endTime":77.66,"body":"trans studies, gender studies,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":72.86,"endTime":77.66,"body":"masculinities, and have a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":77.66,"endTime":81.97999999999999,"body":"forthcoming book chapter on book"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":77.66,"endTime":81.97999999999999,"body":"banning so many things that we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":81.97999999999999,"endTime":86.06,"body":"could talk about. And that we're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":81.97999999999999,"endTime":86.06,"body":"even going to talk about the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":86.06,"endTime":89.78,"body":"board, the Barbie movie, little"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":86.06,"endTime":89.78,"body":"spoiler for you, listeners, or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":89.78,"endTime":92.72,"body":"those of you watching on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":89.78,"endTime":92.72,"body":"YouTube. So welcome. Hi, listen,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":92.72,"endTime":95.44999999999999,"body":"thank you for making time for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":92.72,"endTime":95.44999999999999,"body":"this podcast today."},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":94.8,"endTime":98.31,"body":"Thank you so"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":94.8,"endTime":98.31,"body":"much for having me. I'm so"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":98.31,"endTime":101.39999999999999,"body":"excited. I love the show. And"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":98.31,"endTime":101.39999999999999,"body":"I'm just thrilled to be here."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":102.17999999999999,"endTime":105.17999999999999,"body":"It's wonderful to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":102.17999999999999,"endTime":105.17999999999999,"body":"have you here. It always makes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":105.17999999999999,"endTime":108.14999999999999,"body":"me miss academia and a little"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":105.17999999999999,"endTime":108.14999999999999,"body":"bit when I talk to other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":108.14999999999999,"endTime":111.11999999999999,"body":"scholars. But then I talk to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":108.14999999999999,"endTime":111.11999999999999,"body":"colleagues and I remember what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":111.11999999999999,"endTime":113.7,"body":"life is like, and it's short"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":111.11999999999999,"endTime":113.7,"body":"lived."},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":115.42999999999999,"endTime":118.13,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":115.42999999999999,"endTime":118.13,"body":"just such a thrill to be sort of"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":118.13,"endTime":121.82,"body":"outside of that frame to to just"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":118.13,"endTime":121.82,"body":"be able to have a conversation"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":121.85,"endTime":125.75,"body":"where we can put my ideas like"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":121.85,"endTime":125.75,"body":"into a different frame and talk"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":125.75,"endTime":126.25999999999999,"body":"like really?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":127.25,"endTime":131.39,"body":"Absolutely, yes,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":127.25,"endTime":131.39,"body":"yes. I'm excited about that,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":131.39,"endTime":135.44,"body":"too. So I really want to talk"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":131.39,"endTime":135.44,"body":"about your book, masculinity in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":135.44,"endTime":138.89,"body":"transition. But first of all,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":135.44,"endTime":138.89,"body":"let's talk about masculinity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":138.89,"endTime":142.91,"body":"studies, I remember that, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":138.89,"endTime":142.91,"body":"know, that the emergence of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.91,"endTime":146.32999999999998,"body":"masculinity studies, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.91,"endTime":146.32999999999998,"body":"very long time ago, I used to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":146.32999999999998,"endTime":149.63,"body":"teach in what used to be women's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":146.32999999999998,"endTime":149.63,"body":"studies, actually, at the time."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":149.93,"endTime":153.17000000000002,"body":"That's what my doctor is. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":149.93,"endTime":153.17000000000002,"body":"remember people having actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":153.2,"endTime":156.59,"body":"pretty conflicting feelings in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":153.2,"endTime":156.59,"body":"some ways around the field of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":156.59,"endTime":160.13,"body":"masculinity studies as it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":156.59,"endTime":160.13,"body":"emerge. And so for the listeners"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":160.13,"endTime":163.31,"body":"who don't know what that is,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":160.13,"endTime":163.31,"body":"what, what is the field of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":163.31,"endTime":164.69,"body":"masculinity studies?"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":165.58999999999997,"endTime":168.2,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":165.58999999999997,"endTime":168.2,"body":"it really emerged, like out of"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":168.2,"endTime":171.26,"body":"some of the men's movement"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":168.2,"endTime":171.26,"body":"activity in the 70s. So that's"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":171.26,"endTime":174.92000000000002,"body":"some of the root systems like"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":171.26,"endTime":174.92000000000002,"body":"where men were trying to sort"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":174.92000000000002,"endTime":178.85000000000002,"body":"of, like, reclaim their"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":174.92000000000002,"endTime":178.85000000000002,"body":"masculinity, but also like, kind"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":178.85000000000002,"endTime":182.3,"body":"of critique it, but not really,"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":178.85000000000002,"endTime":182.3,"body":"and a lot of it was in the White"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":182.3,"endTime":187.7,"body":"sis hat framework. And so a lot"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":182.3,"endTime":187.7,"body":"of that field also developed"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":187.7,"endTime":191.42000000000002,"body":"differently from like"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":187.7,"endTime":191.42000000000002,"body":"masculinity and queer theory. So"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":191.42000000000002,"endTime":194.32999999999998,"body":"we have each set Eve Sedgwick,"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":191.42000000000002,"endTime":194.32999999999998,"body":"coming out talking about"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":194.32999999999998,"endTime":198.14,"body":"masculinity, we have sort of"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":194.32999999999998,"endTime":198.14,"body":"Jack Halberstam coming out"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":198.14,"endTime":201.32,"body":"talking about masculinity. But"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":198.14,"endTime":201.32,"body":"those two fields really"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":201.32,"endTime":206.99,"body":"developed pretty separately from"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":201.32,"endTime":206.99,"body":"one another. And so I think"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":206.99,"endTime":211.16000000000003,"body":"there's a move recently, and,"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":206.99,"endTime":211.16000000000003,"body":"you know, one of my mentors,"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":211.16000000000003,"endTime":214.27999999999997,"body":"scholar mentors has been very"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":211.16000000000003,"endTime":214.27999999999997,"body":"active and trying to change the"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":214.27999999999997,"endTime":217.91000000000003,"body":"direction of the field, trying"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":214.27999999999997,"endTime":217.91000000000003,"body":"to make it more comparative,"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":217.94,"endTime":224.14999999999998,"body":"trying to make it more inclusive"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":217.94,"endTime":224.14999999999998,"body":"of diverse masculinities. And so"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":224.14999999999998,"endTime":228.14,"body":"I think there are changes, but I"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":224.14999999999998,"endTime":228.14,"body":"think it's, it's very stubborn,"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":228.98000000000002,"endTime":233.12,"body":"to move out of that frame. And"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":228.98000000000002,"endTime":233.12,"body":"to have also some interplay"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":233.12,"endTime":237.46999999999997,"body":"between the study of Trans and"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":233.12,"endTime":237.46999999999997,"body":"Queer masculinities. And whites"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":237.46999999999997,"endTime":241.55,"body":"has had masculinities. So that's"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":237.46999999999997,"endTime":241.55,"body":"a little bit of the basics of"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":241.88,"endTime":244.67000000000002,"body":"where the field has been. But I"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":241.88,"endTime":244.67000000000002,"body":"think like I said, it's moving"},{"speaker":"K. Allison Hammer","startTime":244.67000000000002,"endTime":245.93,"body":"in a really different direction."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":246.5,"endTime":250.27999999999997,"body":"It really is, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":246.5,"endTime":250.27999999999997,"body":"mean, even compared to say, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":250.27999999999997,"endTime":254.48000000000002,"body":"my God, how long ago did I start"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":250.27999999999997,"endTime":254.48000000000002,"body":"doing my PhD? Fair two years"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":254.48000000000002,"endTime":258.8,"body":"ago, almost, you know, when I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":254.48000000000002,"endTime":258.8,"body":"was initially women's that is, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":258.8,"endTime":263.18,"body":"feel like, a lot of the critique"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":258.8,"endTime":263.18,"body":"was that like, are actually men"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":263.36,"endTime":267.29,"body":"truly engaging in deconstructing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":263.36,"endTime":267.29,"body":"masculinity? Or is this just a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":267.29,"endTime":270.92,"body":"way to perpetuate a lot of this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":267.29,"endTime":270.92,"body":"kind of similar systems right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":271.34,"endTime":274.49,"body":"of oppression? And I'm one of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":271.34,"endTime":274.49,"body":"the things I love about your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":274.49,"endTime":279.35,"body":"book is that it does really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":274.49,"endTime":279.35,"body":"bring into conversation, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":279.35,"endTime":282.53,"body":"know, trans studies with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":279.35,"endTime":282.53,"body":"masculinity, the studies, Queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":282.53,"endTime":286.91,"body":"Studies, he addresses capitalism"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":282.53,"endTime":286.91,"body":"and addresses kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":286.91,"endTime":290.15000000000003,"body":"how we cannot talk about gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":286.91,"endTime":290.15000000000003,"body":"without talking about race,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":290.15000000000003,"endTime":295.85,"body":"right? It's a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":290.15000000000003,"endTime":295.85,"body":"intersectional book, I think. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":295.85,"endTime":300.2,"body":"what kind of moved you to kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":295.85,"endTime":300.2,"body":"of write this book, right, there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":300.2,"endTime":303.95,"body":"are so many things that we focus"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":300.2,"endTime":303.95,"body":"on in our style you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":303.95,"endTime":304.82,"body":"show it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.90000000000003,"endTime":309.65000000000003,"body":"came yesterday, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.90000000000003,"endTime":309.65000000000003,"body":"think the spine like really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.65000000000003,"endTime":314.18,"body":"resonates very nicely with this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.65000000000003,"endTime":314.18,"body":"kind of media slider here. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":314.18,"endTime":318.05,"body":"love this feature that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":314.18,"endTime":318.05,"body":"added to it. So this is the real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":318.05,"endTime":322.19,"body":"live object. I love it. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":318.05,"endTime":322.19,"body":"definitely want to talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.19,"endTime":325.88,"body":"that. I think that you know, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.19,"endTime":325.88,"body":"initial interest in masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":325.88,"endTime":330.29,"body":"came out of female masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":325.88,"endTime":330.29,"body":"and sort of my own doorway into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":330.29,"endTime":334.16,"body":"thinking of my own relationship"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":330.29,"endTime":334.16,"body":"to masculinity, which is You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.16,"endTime":338.66,"body":"know, my coming out story is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.16,"endTime":338.66,"body":"very long, but starts kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.66,"endTime":342.62,"body":"late in life and took many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.66,"endTime":342.62,"body":"twists and turns. But my initial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":342.62,"endTime":345.5,"body":"coming out as a lesbian really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":342.62,"endTime":345.5,"body":"took place through female"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":345.5,"endTime":348.68,"body":"masculinity through Jack"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":345.5,"endTime":348.68,"body":"Halberstam work, which that book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.68,"endTime":353.48,"body":"just changed my life. I mean, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.68,"endTime":353.48,"body":"the time, when I read it, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.48,"endTime":358.1,"body":"really didn't know what it meant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.48,"endTime":358.1,"body":"for me. And it took a while to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.1,"endTime":362.72,"body":"kind of see where it would go."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.1,"endTime":362.72,"body":"And then, you know, when I came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.72,"endTime":365.96000000000004,"body":"out as a lesbian, I was in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.72,"endTime":365.96000000000004,"body":"straight marriage, and then came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.96000000000004,"endTime":369.68,"body":"out as a lesbian, and that had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.96000000000004,"endTime":369.68,"body":"many twists and turns as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":370.13,"endTime":376.22,"body":"And then, you know, came out as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":370.13,"endTime":376.22,"body":"non binary around 2018. And, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.22,"endTime":380.3,"body":"know, for, for me who, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.22,"endTime":380.3,"body":"I'm 49. So that word was not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.33,"endTime":383.72,"body":"present at all, like, oh, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.33,"endTime":383.72,"body":"no understanding of non binary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.72,"endTime":388.43,"body":"like, I think like kids today"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.72,"endTime":388.43,"body":"have such the wonderful, rich"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.43,"endTime":392.33,"body":"vocabulary for talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.43,"endTime":392.33,"body":"gender and sexuality that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.33,"endTime":398.24,"body":"didn't have. And so coming out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.33,"endTime":398.24,"body":"as non binary also dovetailed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.24,"endTime":402.5,"body":"with things happening with me,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.24,"endTime":402.5,"body":"too, and the culture. And what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.5,"endTime":406.31,"body":"happened around me too, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.5,"endTime":406.31,"body":"toxic masculinity being such a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":406.31,"endTime":410.72,"body":"topic. I mean, you were sending"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":406.31,"endTime":410.72,"body":"me articles about masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":410.78000000000003,"endTime":414.11,"body":"all the time. But in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":410.78000000000003,"endTime":414.11,"body":"ways, it was kind of a Redux of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":414.11,"endTime":417.41,"body":"what we see in masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":414.11,"endTime":417.41,"body":"studies, a lot of it was about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.41,"endTime":421.79,"body":"white men, and how they could do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.41,"endTime":421.79,"body":"better. Right? Like I remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.79,"endTime":425.90000000000003,"body":"Anna sales on Deus Ex money"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.79,"endTime":425.90000000000003,"body":"Podcast coming out with an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.90000000000003,"endTime":429.38,"body":"episode called manhood now,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.90000000000003,"endTime":429.38,"body":"where she interviewed all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":429.38,"endTime":432.62,"body":"these men about like, well, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":429.38,"endTime":432.62,"body":"have you learned, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.62,"endTime":436.82,"body":"do differently, and it was kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.62,"endTime":436.82,"body":"of, you know, very shallow, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.82,"endTime":440.15000000000003,"body":"know, it doesn't really get to,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.82,"endTime":440.15000000000003,"body":"you know, the critique of white"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.15000000000003,"endTime":444.32,"body":"supremacy or the critique of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.15000000000003,"endTime":444.32,"body":"hetero patriarchy. But one thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.32,"endTime":446.90000000000003,"body":"I thought about as well, why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.32,"endTime":446.90000000000003,"body":"aren't queer and trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":446.90000000000003,"endTime":451.7,"body":"masculinities considered part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":446.90000000000003,"endTime":451.7,"body":"masculinities tests? Like, why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.7,"endTime":455.54,"body":"are they separated out so much."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.7,"endTime":455.54,"body":"And one thing that happened that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":455.54,"endTime":460.58,"body":"really transformed me was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":455.54,"endTime":460.58,"body":"class that I taught on critical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.58,"endTime":464.78000000000003,"body":"masculinity studies. And it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.58,"endTime":464.78000000000003,"body":"right at that 2018 moment where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.78000000000003,"endTime":468.8,"body":"Brett Kavanaugh was being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.78000000000003,"endTime":468.8,"body":"confirmed. And we watched those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.8,"endTime":473.06,"body":"confirmation hearings together."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.8,"endTime":473.06,"body":"And it was just kind of, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.06,"endTime":476.84000000000003,"body":"know, the word patriarchy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.06,"endTime":476.84000000000003,"body":"started to be used again, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.84000000000003,"endTime":481.13,"body":"had been really retired."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.84000000000003,"endTime":481.13,"body":"Absolutely, I was too blunt."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":482.18,"endTime":483.95,"body":"I heard that word"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":482.18,"endTime":483.95,"body":"in a long time. And all of a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":483.95,"endTime":486.5,"body":"sudden, it was everywhere on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":483.95,"endTime":486.5,"body":"social media. Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.86,"endTime":490.67,"body":"Right. Yeah. And so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.86,"endTime":490.67,"body":"class though, was really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.67,"endTime":493.52000000000004,"body":"interesting, because they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.67,"endTime":493.52000000000004,"body":"all different kinds of people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.73,"endTime":496.88,"body":"You know, there were black men,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.73,"endTime":496.88,"body":"there were trans men who are non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.88,"endTime":501.59000000000003,"body":"binary folks, black women, white"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.88,"endTime":501.59000000000003,"body":"women, international students,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.59000000000003,"endTime":507.41,"body":"it was almost like, everyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.59000000000003,"endTime":507.41,"body":"wanted to talk about this. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":507.41,"endTime":512.03,"body":"think it became really important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":507.41,"endTime":512.03,"body":"for me to situate it within the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":512.03,"endTime":517.79,"body":"culture itself, and not off in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":512.03,"endTime":517.79,"body":"some side territory of queer and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.79,"endTime":521.09,"body":"trans SNESs. But to really put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.79,"endTime":521.09,"body":"it into conversation of like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":521.51,"endTime":525.8299999999999,"body":"what do queer and trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":521.51,"endTime":525.8299999999999,"body":"masculinities offer, they offer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.8299999999999,"endTime":530.78,"body":"quite a lot, I would say, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.8299999999999,"endTime":530.78,"body":"undoing normative toxic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":530.81,"endTime":535.13,"body":"masculinity. And so that was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":530.81,"endTime":535.13,"body":"lot of it came out of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":535.13,"endTime":538.1899999999999,"body":"moment, really, the direction of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":535.13,"endTime":538.1899999999999,"body":"the book took off from there."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":539.24,"endTime":542.4499999999999,"body":"I love that. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":539.24,"endTime":542.4499999999999,"body":"you mentioned toxic masculinity."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":542.4499999999999,"endTime":547.25,"body":"So for our listeners who maybe"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":542.4499999999999,"endTime":547.25,"body":"don't know what that means, how"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":547.25,"endTime":550.25,"body":"would you define toxic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":547.25,"endTime":550.25,"body":"masculinity? Or how would you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":550.25,"endTime":553.6099999999999,"body":"describe the idea of toxic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":550.25,"endTime":553.6099999999999,"body":"masculinity?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.63,"endTime":557.5999999999999,"body":"Right, that's a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.63,"endTime":557.5999999999999,"body":"good question. Um, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":557.5999999999999,"endTime":560.9599999999999,"body":"really critique the term in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":557.5999999999999,"endTime":560.9599999999999,"body":"book, because one of the things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.9599999999999,"endTime":567.68,"body":"that happened out of me too, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.9599999999999,"endTime":567.68,"body":"that it became about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.8299999999999,"endTime":572.78,"body":"putting on trial, various bad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.8299999999999,"endTime":572.78,"body":"apples, and those were the toxic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.78,"endTime":577.13,"body":"ones, or it was really the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.78,"endTime":577.13,"body":"extreme ones who are toxic. When"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":577.13,"endTime":580.4599999999999,"body":"I really think it's about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":577.13,"endTime":580.4599999999999,"body":"looking at, you know, the more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.49,"endTime":585.14,"body":"daily kinds of violences the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.49,"endTime":585.14,"body":"toxic masculinity, you know, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":585.14,"endTime":590.5699999999999,"body":"all about. And for me, it came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":585.14,"endTime":590.5699999999999,"body":"down to really three areas. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.5699999999999,"endTime":593.3599999999999,"body":"talked about normative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.5699999999999,"endTime":593.3599999999999,"body":"masculinity instead of toxic for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.3599999999999,"endTime":596.93,"body":"that reason, because I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.3599999999999,"endTime":596.93,"body":"that toxic really pushed us in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.93,"endTime":601.25,"body":"direction of thinking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.93,"endTime":601.25,"body":"Trump quite a lot. Yeah, Jeffrey"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.25,"endTime":606.74,"body":"Epstein, you know, these men"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.25,"endTime":606.74,"body":"that we can also talk about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.74,"endTime":609.89,"body":"actually changed for me too,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.74,"endTime":609.89,"body":"which I think is a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":609.89,"endTime":613.13,"body":"important thing to consider, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":609.89,"endTime":613.13,"body":"we can talk about it in light of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":613.13,"endTime":617.51,"body":"the Barbie movie or whatever."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":613.13,"endTime":617.51,"body":"Like, you know, I think that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.51,"endTime":621.41,"body":"tendency there was to want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.51,"endTime":621.41,"body":"incarcerate too and that was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.41,"endTime":625.28,"body":"solution was incarcerate, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.41,"endTime":625.28,"body":"then we'll be rid of it. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":625.28,"endTime":629.24,"body":"that's not how toxic masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":625.28,"endTime":629.24,"body":"works. Like if you think of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":629.24,"endTime":631.9699999999999,"body":"term toxic, it spreads"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":633.4399999999999,"endTime":636.1999999999999,"body":"exists At least"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":633.4399999999999,"endTime":636.1999999999999,"body":"it's like a poison, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":636.1999999999999,"endTime":640.91,"body":"like something toxic in the air."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":636.1999999999999,"endTime":640.91,"body":"I often describe like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":640.9399999999999,"endTime":644.39,"body":"cisgender ism or transphobia."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":640.9399999999999,"endTime":644.39,"body":"Like the air we breathe, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":644.39,"endTime":648.41,"body":"It gets into our lungs into our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":644.39,"endTime":648.41,"body":"body minds, and we just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":648.41,"endTime":651.68,"body":"reproduce it without even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":648.41,"endTime":651.68,"body":"thinking about it. And so that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":651.68,"endTime":654.68,"body":"toxicity that's in the air from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":651.68,"endTime":654.68,"body":"normative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.76,"endTime":659.81,"body":"I love that idea that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.76,"endTime":659.81,"body":"you breathe it in even you do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":659.8399999999999,"endTime":662.51,"body":"you breathe it in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":659.8399999999999,"endTime":662.51,"body":"Africa, you know, to me, that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":662.51,"endTime":666.29,"body":"how it feels, right? The words"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":662.51,"endTime":666.29,"body":"the culture, the songs, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":666.29,"endTime":670.9699999999999,"body":"movies, the intergenerational"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":666.29,"endTime":670.9699999999999,"body":"familiar patterns. I mean, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":670.9699999999999,"endTime":674.0899999999999,"body":"passionate about it that wrote a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":670.9699999999999,"endTime":674.0899999999999,"body":"book called Gender trauma. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":674.0899999999999,"endTime":677.87,"body":"love this idea that oh, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":674.0899999999999,"endTime":677.87,"body":"It's part of that kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":678.29,"endTime":681.53,"body":"ongoing settler colonial"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":678.29,"endTime":681.53,"body":"project. And I love that you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":681.53,"endTime":685.79,"body":"highlighted the normativity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":681.53,"endTime":685.79,"body":"aspect, right? Because in a way,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":686.75,"endTime":691.31,"body":"I really feel that this idea"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":686.75,"endTime":691.31,"body":"that well is just those men over"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":691.31,"endTime":694.5799999999999,"body":"here, we're doing the harm. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":691.31,"endTime":694.5799999999999,"body":"if we get rid of that, or if we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":694.76,"endTime":698.63,"body":"imprison them, then everybody"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":694.76,"endTime":698.63,"body":"else will be okay. Is a very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":698.63,"endTime":702.3199999999999,"body":"colonial white supremacist idea,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":698.63,"endTime":702.3199999999999,"body":"right? It's an all or nothing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":702.56,"endTime":706.31,"body":"good, or bad perpetrators and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":702.56,"endTime":706.31,"body":"victims, all this binaries,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":706.49,"endTime":711.2299999999999,"body":"something that I'm also not a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":706.49,"endTime":711.2299999999999,"body":"big fan of, obviously, in every"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":711.2299999999999,"endTime":714.8,"body":"way. And I think that's one of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":711.2299999999999,"endTime":714.8,"body":"the things I love about your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":714.8,"endTime":718.13,"body":"book that you challenge some of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":714.8,"endTime":718.13,"body":"those binaries. You know, when"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":718.13,"endTime":723.2299999999999,"body":"we really look at kind of toxic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":718.13,"endTime":723.2299999999999,"body":"masculinity, it's not about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":723.8,"endTime":729.41,"body":"imprisoning a few men, or a few"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":723.8,"endTime":729.41,"body":"bad apples or teaching boys to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":729.41,"endTime":733.1899999999999,"body":"do better. It's really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":729.41,"endTime":733.1899999999999,"body":"questioning the whole system of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":733.1899999999999,"endTime":734.5999999999999,"body":"masculinity. Right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.53,"endTime":739.31,"body":"Exactly. Like that's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":735.53,"endTime":739.31,"body":"that was one of the main sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.31,"endTime":742.8199999999999,"body":"takeaways from that whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.31,"endTime":742.8199999999999,"body":"moment. And it really, in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.8199999999999,"endTime":745.4599999999999,"body":"opinion, and I could be wrong,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.8199999999999,"endTime":745.4599999999999,"body":"but in my opinion, it really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":745.4599999999999,"endTime":750.5899999999999,"body":"faded also, until maybe Barbie."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":745.4599999999999,"endTime":750.5899999999999,"body":"I mean, maybe the Barbie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":750.5899999999999,"endTime":754.16,"body":"movement is like a resurgence of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":750.5899999999999,"endTime":754.16,"body":"me, too."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":754.699,"endTime":757.8789999999999,"body":"That is possible"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":754.699,"endTime":757.8789999999999,"body":"that I love that idea. Because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":757.8789999999999,"endTime":763.2489999999999,"body":"you're right in that moment. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":757.8789999999999,"endTime":763.2489999999999,"body":"that that me too moment was so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":763.279,"endTime":768.3489999999999,"body":"intense in so many ways. I know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":763.279,"endTime":768.3489999999999,"body":"that for me, and a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":768.3489999999999,"endTime":771.9789999999999,"body":"folks, so many survivors is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":768.3489999999999,"endTime":771.9789999999999,"body":"like, it's a lot, right. It was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":771.9789999999999,"endTime":774.7389999999999,"body":"also a lot because it was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":771.9789999999999,"endTime":774.7389999999999,"body":"everywhere. The trauma was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":774.7389999999999,"endTime":777.7389999999999,"body":"everywhere. People were sharing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":774.7389999999999,"endTime":777.7389999999999,"body":"stories everywhere. I know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":777.7389999999999,"endTime":781.1289999999999,"body":"had a lot of clients who also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":777.7389999999999,"endTime":781.1289999999999,"body":"were like, This is a lot because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":781.159,"endTime":784.0989999999999,"body":"it's everywhere. And so I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":781.159,"endTime":784.0989999999999,"body":"constantly exposed and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":784.0989999999999,"endTime":788.3589999999999,"body":"constantly rethinking also about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":784.0989999999999,"endTime":788.3589999999999,"body":"the trauma. And then your race"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":788.3589999999999,"endTime":793.189,"body":"seems to also almost have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":788.3589999999999,"endTime":793.189,"body":"resettled into more fascism,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":793.189,"endTime":798.559,"body":"right? More fascism, more white"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":793.189,"endTime":798.559,"body":"supremacy, more, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":799.519,"endTime":802.639,"body":"promotion of violence to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":799.519,"endTime":802.639,"body":"stopping violence, like through"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":802.639,"endTime":805.7589999999999,"body":"police brutality, like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":802.639,"endTime":805.7589999999999,"body":"building of cops CD and all of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":805.7589999999999,"endTime":810.949,"body":"that. And so, yes, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":805.7589999999999,"endTime":810.949,"body":"I do want to shift into talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":810.949,"endTime":814.639,"body":"about now. But I wonder what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":810.949,"endTime":814.639,"body":"you've noticed in that moment,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":814.669,"endTime":818.6289999999999,"body":"you know, that kind of rise and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":814.669,"endTime":818.6289999999999,"body":"fall? And do you feel in some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":818.6289999999999,"endTime":823.549,"body":"ways, what we saw was also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":818.6289999999999,"endTime":823.549,"body":"pushed back. Right. Okay. Now"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":823.549,"endTime":827.779,"body":"you've had this moment. We're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":823.549,"endTime":827.779,"body":"done. Now, things are back to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":827.779,"endTime":828.799,"body":"normal, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":830.0,"endTime":832.25,"body":"Absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":830.0,"endTime":832.25,"body":"think, you know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.25,"endTime":836.39,"body":"things that I've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.25,"endTime":836.39,"body":"about lately is how the response"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.39,"endTime":843.89,"body":"from SIS men was sort of ranged"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.39,"endTime":843.89,"body":"from guilty to defensive to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.89,"endTime":849.62,"body":"rageful. Yes. And so these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.89,"endTime":849.62,"body":"online cultures of grievance,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.8299999999999,"endTime":853.37,"body":"we're building and building."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.8299999999999,"endTime":853.37,"body":"And, you know, I don't talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":853.37,"endTime":856.88,"body":"about this explicitly in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":853.37,"endTime":856.88,"body":"book, but I think it's possible"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.18,"endTime":861.53,"body":"that it built even toward the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.18,"endTime":861.53,"body":"January 6 coup attempt, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.53,"endTime":865.6999999999999,"body":"know, because a lot of what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.53,"endTime":865.6999999999999,"body":"these paramilitary groups want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.6999999999999,"endTime":868.88,"body":"is they want women to return to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.6999999999999,"endTime":868.88,"body":"the home, they want to return to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.88,"endTime":874.91,"body":"the traditional 99% of the time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.88,"endTime":874.91,"body":"white families, like they want a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.91,"endTime":880.25,"body":"return to sort of women focused"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.91,"endTime":880.25,"body":"on on having children and having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.25,"endTime":884.9,"body":"babies and taking care of their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.25,"endTime":884.9,"body":"every need. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.9,"endTime":889.1899999999999,"body":"there was a simultaneous sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.9,"endTime":889.1899999999999,"body":"escalation of these cultures of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.1899999999999,"endTime":894.3199999999999,"body":"rage. At the same time that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.1899999999999,"endTime":894.3199999999999,"body":"see a really powerful movement"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":894.4699999999999,"endTime":898.13,"body":"of people, you know, not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":894.4699999999999,"endTime":898.13,"body":"this women, like many people, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":898.13,"endTime":902.51,"body":"you said, sharing their stories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":898.13,"endTime":902.51,"body":"coming forward, you know, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.51,"endTime":906.2299999999999,"body":"I'm wondering also, if people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.51,"endTime":906.2299999999999,"body":"felt like they were hurt. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.2299999999999,"endTime":909.89,"body":"know, like, I think that's one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.2299999999999,"endTime":909.89,"body":"of the issues. There's did few"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.89,"endTime":913.2199999999999,"body":"people feel heard and then where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.89,"endTime":913.2199999999999,"body":"did that go from there? Like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.2199999999999,"endTime":916.9699999999999,"body":"did it just sort of get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":913.2199999999999,"endTime":916.9699999999999,"body":"repressed on the larger scale"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":917.0,"endTime":921.29,"body":"again, you know what I mean? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":917.0,"endTime":921.29,"body":"the guilty the men who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":921.29,"endTime":924.8299999999999,"body":"guilty about it, like there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":921.29,"endTime":924.8299999999999,"body":"wonderful book by Jane Ward"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":924.8299999999999,"endTime":928.55,"body":"called the tragedy of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":924.8299999999999,"endTime":928.55,"body":"heterosexuality where she tracks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.55,"endTime":934.13,"body":"how, you know, it was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.55,"endTime":934.13,"body":"rebranding right For"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.13,"endTime":939.05,"body":"masculinity, it changed from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.13,"endTime":939.05,"body":"sort of the art of seduction to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.05,"endTime":942.3499999999999,"body":"the art of personal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.05,"endTime":942.3499999999999,"body":"transformation. And it was sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.3499999999999,"endTime":946.37,"body":"of like now like, I still have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.3499999999999,"endTime":946.37,"body":"people sending me articles about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":946.37,"endTime":949.88,"body":"like men's groups are trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":946.37,"endTime":949.88,"body":"like, you know, express their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.88,"endTime":954.14,"body":"emotions together like in a, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.88,"endTime":954.14,"body":"a sort of secluded woodsy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":954.14,"endTime":959.75,"body":"environment. And it's sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":954.14,"endTime":959.75,"body":"like, you know, that was part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.75,"endTime":964.64,"body":"the men's movement of the 70s as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.75,"endTime":964.64,"body":"well, every time it sort of goes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.64,"endTime":968.78,"body":"back to not a sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.64,"endTime":968.78,"body":"deconstruction, but a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.78,"endTime":971.87,"body":"reclamation, of masculinity,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":972.0799999999999,"endTime":975.3199999999999,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":972.0799999999999,"endTime":975.3199999999999,"body":"Reclamation, that's often so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":976.4599999999999,"endTime":980.0899999999999,"body":"inappropriate in so many ways,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":976.4599999999999,"endTime":980.0899999999999,"body":"because it's often says why men"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":980.3599999999999,"endTime":984.9499999999999,"body":"also appropriating kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":980.3599999999999,"endTime":984.9499999999999,"body":"cultural traditions, like sweat"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":984.9499999999999,"endTime":990.53,"body":"lodges in the 70s and 80s, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":984.9499999999999,"endTime":990.53,"body":"know, or like, talking sticks or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":990.53,"endTime":996.3499999999999,"body":"like connecting with, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":990.53,"endTime":996.3499999999999,"body":"animal spirits. And it's really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":996.38,"endTime":999.9499999999999,"body":"like, what sometimes when I look"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":996.38,"endTime":999.9499999999999,"body":"at some of this information, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":999.9499999999999,"endTime":1004.66,"body":"like, okay, as a therapist, yay,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":999.9499999999999,"endTime":1004.66,"body":"people are connecting with one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1004.66,"endTime":1009.1899999999999,"body":"another in themselves. But this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1004.66,"endTime":1009.1899999999999,"body":"is so toxic and problematic, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1009.1899999999999,"endTime":1011.89,"body":"so many that are just like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.209,"endTime":1017.4989999999999,"body":"No, yeah, particularly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.209,"endTime":1017.4989999999999,"body":"the sweat lodge idea. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1017.4989999999999,"endTime":1020.5889999999999,"body":"someone just sent me an article"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1017.4989999999999,"endTime":1020.5889999999999,"body":"like a few weeks ago about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.5889999999999,"endTime":1023.439,"body":"another men's group that engages"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.5889999999999,"endTime":1023.439,"body":"in these similar kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1023.439,"endTime":1027.579,"body":"things, you know, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1023.439,"endTime":1027.579,"body":"whiteness aspect, like I said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.609,"endTime":1033.849,"body":"Yeah, it's predominantly white"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.609,"endTime":1033.849,"body":"men. And I think, regardless of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.849,"endTime":1038.019,"body":"the intentions, like I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.849,"endTime":1038.019,"body":"that anytime a group of sis men"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1038.019,"endTime":1043.029,"body":"get together, it's usually not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1038.019,"endTime":1043.029,"body":"good. Like, in large numbers,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1043.33,"endTime":1044.32,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1045.22,"endTime":1046.66,"body":"Eternity right there."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1047.92,"endTime":1050.2,"body":"That is a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1047.92,"endTime":1050.2,"body":"fraternity right there. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1050.2,"endTime":1055.15,"body":"it's, like, so problematic, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1050.2,"endTime":1055.15,"body":"how men can also bolster each"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1055.15,"endTime":1059.71,"body":"other to justify violence,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1055.15,"endTime":1059.71,"body":"right? Or to justify investment"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1059.71,"endTime":1066.34,"body":"or to justify just that. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1059.71,"endTime":1066.34,"body":"then normative masculinity that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1066.49,"endTime":1071.77,"body":"is so hard for them to let go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1066.49,"endTime":1071.77,"body":"off? Because why let go of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1071.77,"endTime":1075.3999999999999,"body":"power? Right, when you can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1071.77,"endTime":1075.3999999999999,"body":"rebrand out? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.459,"endTime":1078.489,"body":"and right. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.459,"endTime":1078.489,"body":"culture sort of supports that in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1078.489,"endTime":1081.459,"body":"all these ways. And politics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1078.489,"endTime":1081.459,"body":"supports it. I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.459,"endTime":1086.289,"body":"that, you know, the sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.459,"endTime":1086.289,"body":"loss that my students felt after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.289,"endTime":1090.519,"body":"the overturn, of Roe vs. Wade,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.289,"endTime":1090.519,"body":"like, you know, they called me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.519,"endTime":1094.1789999999999,"body":"with such grief, because I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.519,"endTime":1094.1789999999999,"body":"that they felt this sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.1789999999999,"endTime":1097.719,"body":"failure, you know, that, like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.1789999999999,"endTime":1097.719,"body":"said, only a few years prior, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.719,"endTime":1100.029,"body":"think there was a moment of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.719,"endTime":1100.029,"body":"like, we're going to, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.029,"endTime":1103.1789999999999,"body":"going to, we're going to address"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.029,"endTime":1103.1789999999999,"body":"this finally, like, we're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1103.1789999999999,"endTime":1106.389,"body":"to address the issue of sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1103.1789999999999,"endTime":1106.389,"body":"domination and sexual assault,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.389,"endTime":1109.149,"body":"like, we're going to change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.389,"endTime":1109.149,"body":"things, you know, and there were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1109.149,"endTime":1113.019,"body":"flaws, many, many flaws within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1109.149,"endTime":1113.019,"body":"it, as there are flaws within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1113.019,"endTime":1117.129,"body":"every social movement, every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1113.019,"endTime":1117.129,"body":"feminist movement. And I, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.129,"endTime":1121.119,"body":"take, I take that, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.129,"endTime":1121.119,"body":"understand that. But I do think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.119,"endTime":1124.029,"body":"that around the topic, like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.119,"endTime":1124.029,"body":"said, with this class, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.029,"endTime":1129.129,"body":"like, people were really wanting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.029,"endTime":1129.129,"body":"to have intense discourse about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.129,"endTime":1132.9389999999999,"body":"it across all these different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.129,"endTime":1132.9389999999999,"body":"investments in masculinity, all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.9389999999999,"endTime":1135.9389999999999,"body":"these different kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.9389999999999,"endTime":1135.9389999999999,"body":"investments and masculinity. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.9389999999999,"endTime":1139.239,"body":"I don't know, I haven't taught"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.9389999999999,"endTime":1139.239,"body":"that class in a while. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.239,"endTime":1143.619,"body":"don't know if if there would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.239,"endTime":1143.619,"body":"still be that same fervor around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.619,"endTime":1148.269,"body":"it. And I think that's because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.619,"endTime":1148.269,"body":"there is so much loss post row"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.269,"endTime":1155.049,"body":"and now with this just insane"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.269,"endTime":1155.049,"body":"assault on trans people, trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.049,"endTime":1159.819,"body":"and non binary people, like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.049,"endTime":1159.819,"body":"know, so we have BLM, and, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.819,"endTime":1164.019,"body":"know, it's just, I think, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.819,"endTime":1164.019,"body":"think we're all there's we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.019,"endTime":1168.309,"body":"all feeling, you know, not the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.019,"endTime":1168.309,"body":"royal we, but I think we're like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.309,"endTime":1172.599,"body":"there's a sense of just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.309,"endTime":1172.599,"body":"collective grief right now, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.599,"endTime":1175.839,"body":"not knowing what comes next, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.599,"endTime":1175.839,"body":"what I'm sensing."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1176.23,"endTime":1178.54,"body":"Absolutely. Which"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1176.23,"endTime":1178.54,"body":"makes sense, because it's this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1178.54,"endTime":1182.3799999999999,"body":"kind of pooling, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1178.54,"endTime":1182.3799999999999,"body":"on one, and we have this kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1182.3799999999999,"endTime":1186.85,"body":"rise of fascism again. And at"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1182.3799999999999,"endTime":1186.85,"body":"the same time, we also have this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1186.85,"endTime":1190.57,"body":"tension pulling towards justice,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1186.85,"endTime":1190.57,"body":"right? Whether it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1190.57,"endTime":1194.68,"body":"abolitionism, whether it is you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1190.57,"endTime":1194.68,"body":"know, reproductive rights,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1194.68,"endTime":1197.59,"body":"whether it is body autonomy"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1194.68,"endTime":1197.59,"body":"rights for everyone, including"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1197.59,"endTime":1202.69,"body":"trans folks, we're really seeing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1197.59,"endTime":1202.69,"body":"this kind of moment of tension"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1202.69,"endTime":1206.83,"body":"and uncertainty. And, and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1202.69,"endTime":1206.83,"body":"think there is a lot of grief, a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1206.83,"endTime":1211.27,"body":"lot of fear and, and often out"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1206.83,"endTime":1211.27,"body":"of fear. There's also extreme"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1211.27,"endTime":1214.99,"body":"reactions, which I think we're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1211.27,"endTime":1214.99,"body":"seeing in the world right now."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1215.26,"endTime":1218.59,"body":"And in the middle of all of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1215.26,"endTime":1218.59,"body":"this, there's also popular"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1218.59,"endTime":1222.6399999999999,"body":"culture that keeps making things"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1218.59,"endTime":1222.6399999999999,"body":"right. So let's go there. Let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1222.6399999999999,"endTime":1226.96,"body":"talk about the Barbie movie"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1222.6399999999999,"endTime":1226.96,"body":"because I think in a way, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1226.96,"endTime":1231.07,"body":"really pleasantly surprised, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1226.96,"endTime":1231.07,"body":"know, and I have to say, as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1231.07,"endTime":1235.1499999999999,"body":"somebody who has a more queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1231.07,"endTime":1235.1499999999999,"body":"masculinity Who really enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1235.1499999999999,"endTime":1238.93,"body":"dressing my Barbies and doing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1235.1499999999999,"endTime":1238.93,"body":"musical theater? I would have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1238.93,"endTime":1244.0,"body":"definitely been Oh, me too,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1238.93,"endTime":1244.0,"body":"right. I was like, I was growing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1244.0,"endTime":1248.32,"body":"up and I really wanted a Barbie"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1244.0,"endTime":1248.32,"body":"Kamkar more than anything when I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1248.32,"endTime":1252.04,"body":"was like six or seven years old,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1248.32,"endTime":1252.04,"body":"right and like little plasticky"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1252.04,"endTime":1257.8899999999999,"body":"one. And so I was both excited"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1252.04,"endTime":1257.8899999999999,"body":"and fearing the Barbie movie"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1257.8899999999999,"endTime":1260.23,"body":"because at the same time then"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1257.8899999999999,"endTime":1260.23,"body":"when I became a parent, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1260.23,"endTime":1263.3799999999999,"body":"very anti Barbie, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1260.23,"endTime":1263.3799999999999,"body":"at that point, I was like, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1263.3799999999999,"endTime":1266.6499999999999,"body":"a feminist and very queer. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1263.3799999999999,"endTime":1266.6499999999999,"body":"was like, Barbie is not a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1266.6499999999999,"endTime":1270.52,"body":"realistic representation of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1266.6499999999999,"endTime":1270.52,"body":"womanhood. I remember you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1270.52,"endTime":1274.6,"body":"when my kid was no actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1270.52,"endTime":1274.6,"body":"young adult and no, as I tell"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1274.6,"endTime":1277.78,"body":"the stories, you know, we're in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1274.6,"endTime":1277.78,"body":"the middle of the coop doing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1277.78,"endTime":1281.35,"body":"grocery shopping and she had"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1277.78,"endTime":1281.35,"body":"this Barbie that are of course"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1281.35,"endTime":1284.68,"body":"there were uncle's gave her a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1281.35,"endTime":1284.68,"body":"whole set of Barbie Disney"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1284.68,"endTime":1288.61,"body":"princesses, just to see my face"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1284.68,"endTime":1288.61,"body":"on her birthday. You know, and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1288.61,"endTime":1292.21,"body":"was saying anything about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1288.61,"endTime":1292.21,"body":"Barbie. And she goes, I know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1292.21,"endTime":1295.78,"body":"know, this is not what real"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1292.21,"endTime":1295.78,"body":"women looks like that it's my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1295.78,"endTime":1299.44,"body":"doll doll. And it's okay. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1295.78,"endTime":1299.44,"body":"was like, Yes, honey, it is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1299.44,"endTime":1303.55,"body":"okay. It is also just a doll, a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1299.44,"endTime":1303.55,"body":"doll that you can play with. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1303.55,"endTime":1307.84,"body":"it's more than that. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1303.55,"endTime":1307.84,"body":"so the Barbie movie that came"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1307.84,"endTime":1312.55,"body":"out and it was so different than"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1307.84,"endTime":1312.55,"body":"I think many people expected."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1312.55,"endTime":1315.04,"body":"What did you think about it?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1312.55,"endTime":1315.04,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.58,"endTime":1320.32,"body":"I mean, I felt very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.58,"endTime":1320.32,"body":"seen like that. And I also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.32,"endTime":1323.23,"body":"really love Barbie. What's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.32,"endTime":1323.23,"body":"what's funny is that my parents"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.23,"endTime":1327.22,"body":"wouldn't get me any of the dream"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.23,"endTime":1327.22,"body":"house or that was a car, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.22,"endTime":1330.52,"body":"spies have to go to my friend's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.22,"endTime":1330.52,"body":"house. And she had an ad, where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.52,"endTime":1335.44,"body":"she had all of it laid out. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.52,"endTime":1335.44,"body":"was just, and I used to make my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.44,"endTime":1340.81,"body":"Barbies like houses out of shoe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.44,"endTime":1340.81,"body":"boxes. And I would color them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.81,"endTime":1343.6599999999999,"body":"and stuff like that, because my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.81,"endTime":1343.6599999999999,"body":"parents didn't want to, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.6599999999999,"endTime":1346.78,"body":"would they would allow a bar I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.6599999999999,"endTime":1346.78,"body":"only had one can, which is kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.78,"endTime":1349.81,"body":"of funny. I always ask people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.78,"endTime":1349.81,"body":"like, how many cans did you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1349.81,"endTime":1352.87,"body":"have, though? I just had the one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1349.81,"endTime":1352.87,"body":"and he was just sort of, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1352.87,"endTime":1354.9099999999999,"body":"know, drove drove people around."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1356.2,"endTime":1359.59,"body":"Like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1356.2,"endTime":1359.59,"body":"chauffeur. Any cans. Right? What"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1359.59,"endTime":1361.78,"body":"I think about it was all barbus."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1359.59,"endTime":1361.78,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.62,"endTime":1365.32,"body":"I just had one and he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.62,"endTime":1365.32,"body":"didn't get much attention, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.32,"endTime":1369.28,"body":"is funny. Because that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.32,"endTime":1369.28,"body":"you know, because Greta Gerwig"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.28,"endTime":1372.07,"body":"is so interested in talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.28,"endTime":1372.07,"body":"about girlhood. I mean, we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.07,"endTime":1377.08,"body":"lady Burj such a fantastic film."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.07,"endTime":1377.08,"body":"But I think that the there's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1377.08,"endTime":1379.75,"body":"many things to talk about with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1377.08,"endTime":1379.75,"body":"the movie, but like Gloria's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.75,"endTime":1385.57,"body":"relationship, like Gloria, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.75,"endTime":1385.57,"body":"woman, who you know, is the one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.57,"endTime":1388.99,"body":"having the sad feelings, and she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.57,"endTime":1388.99,"body":"has to go repair the space time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.99,"endTime":1392.95,"body":"continuum by going like Barbie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.99,"endTime":1392.95,"body":"has to go back to, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1392.98,"endTime":1397.27,"body":"help Gloria to heal and help the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1392.98,"endTime":1397.27,"body":"relationship with her daughter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.27,"endTime":1402.19,"body":"to he'll like, you know, Gloria"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.27,"endTime":1402.19,"body":"has a line where she's like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1402.19,"endTime":1406.72,"body":"know, if it's this hard, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1402.19,"endTime":1406.72,"body":"know, for you as a doll, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.75,"endTime":1410.77,"body":"just representing a woman. Like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.75,"endTime":1410.77,"body":"what does that say about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.77,"endTime":1413.32,"body":"it's really like to be a woman?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.77,"endTime":1413.32,"body":"I'm not quoting the line."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.32,"endTime":1419.08,"body":"Exactly. And I think that, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.32,"endTime":1419.08,"body":"know, we can talk about how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.32,"endTime":1423.25,"body":"Barbie has been, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.32,"endTime":1423.25,"body":"potentially destructive for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.25,"endTime":1427.21,"body":"little girls, but I think at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.25,"endTime":1427.21,"body":"same time, or, or, you know, gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.21,"endTime":1432.73,"body":"men also have a total thing for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.21,"endTime":1432.73,"body":"Barbie and like a lot of Barbie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.73,"endTime":1438.76,"body":"but is it? Is it embracing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.73,"endTime":1438.76,"body":"ideal? Or is it embracing some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.76,"endTime":1445.48,"body":"kind of hi feminists. That is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.76,"endTime":1445.48,"body":"maybe I love the trans critiques"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.48,"endTime":1449.6499999999999,"body":"of Barbie that say, this is like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.48,"endTime":1449.6499999999999,"body":"a trans movie as well, the whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.6499999999999,"endTime":1454.12,"body":"idea of it as being trans, but,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.6499999999999,"endTime":1454.12,"body":"you know, I think that with, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.12,"endTime":1456.76,"body":"know, with the Barbie movie,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.12,"endTime":1456.76,"body":"like, there were just some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.79,"endTime":1459.85,"body":"moments like, we, we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.79,"endTime":1459.85,"body":"speaking a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.85,"endTime":1464.53,"body":"this, like, you know, when they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.85,"endTime":1464.53,"body":"go into the real world, right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.56,"endTime":1469.12,"body":"and Barbie is suddenly the art"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.56,"endTime":1469.12,"body":"like the sexualized object where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.12,"endTime":1472.84,"body":"she wasn't in Barbie land. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.12,"endTime":1472.84,"body":"the commentary that I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.84,"endTime":1475.84,"body":"Greta is making there about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.84,"endTime":1475.84,"body":"it was like to play with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.84,"endTime":1480.22,"body":"Barbies, you know, in your, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.84,"endTime":1480.22,"body":"your childhood bedroom, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1480.22,"endTime":1484.48,"body":"know, or in my friend's attic."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1480.22,"endTime":1484.48,"body":"And it was such an imaginative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.48,"endTime":1489.94,"body":"space of, like, Feminine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.48,"endTime":1489.94,"body":"Empowerment. Really, yeah. That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.94,"endTime":1494.71,"body":"I as a non binary person, like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.94,"endTime":1494.71,"body":"don't like I'm very much seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.71,"endTime":1499.45,"body":"my gender in the most complex"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.71,"endTime":1499.45,"body":"way possible. Right. So and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.45,"endTime":1501.6699999999998,"body":"that's part of what I talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.45,"endTime":1501.6699999999998,"body":"in the book, too, is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.6699999999998,"endTime":1506.6499999999999,"body":"shutting off, like any part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.6699999999998,"endTime":1506.6499999999999,"body":"myself, like, you know, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.6499999999999,"endTime":1509.98,"body":"think that's a very difficult"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.6499999999999,"endTime":1509.98,"body":"space to be in, in some ways. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.98,"endTime":1514.3,"body":"I very much think that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.98,"endTime":1514.3,"body":"femininity aspect of the movie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.3,"endTime":1519.07,"body":"and really centering the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.3,"endTime":1519.07,"body":"feminine. You know, I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.07,"endTime":1522.61,"body":"think of another recent film"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.07,"endTime":1522.61,"body":"that has done that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1523.0,"endTime":1525.94,"body":"exactly. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1523.0,"endTime":1525.94,"body":"think you know, thinking about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1525.97,"endTime":1529.6299999999999,"body":"also like, what femininity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1525.97,"endTime":1529.6299999999999,"body":"represents, and I'll cry, like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1529.6299999999999,"endTime":1532.21,"body":"the relationship with femininity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1529.6299999999999,"endTime":1532.21,"body":"can be you know, and I've been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1532.54,"endTime":1536.05,"body":"brought up you know, my All this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1532.54,"endTime":1536.05,"body":"was a girl that was asked to do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1540.1,"body":"her own journey around"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1540.1,"body":"femininity, right? Because this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1540.1299999999999,"endTime":1543.58,"body":"what does it mean to love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1540.1299999999999,"endTime":1543.58,"body":"femininity to love pink and also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1543.58,"endTime":1547.81,"body":"to be incredibly smart and to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1543.58,"endTime":1547.81,"body":"love math, and to love science,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1547.81,"endTime":1551.35,"body":"you know, and almost to have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1547.81,"endTime":1551.35,"body":"this dilemma, you can be one or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1551.35,"endTime":1554.71,"body":"the other, right? You can be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1551.35,"endTime":1554.71,"body":"pretty in pink, or you can be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1554.71,"endTime":1557.68,"body":"smart, but not really in pink,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1554.71,"endTime":1557.68,"body":"right? But if you're pretty in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1557.68,"endTime":1562.0,"body":"pink and smart, then the world"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1557.68,"endTime":1562.0,"body":"cannot tolerate that right? And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1562.0,"endTime":1566.8,"body":"in a way, a lot of our was like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1562.0,"endTime":1566.8,"body":"femininity is okay to me. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1566.8,"endTime":1570.31,"body":"not the problem BB is not the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1566.8,"endTime":1570.31,"body":"problem. The patriarchy is the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1570.31,"endTime":1574.87,"body":"problem. I'm like, You're right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1570.31,"endTime":1574.87,"body":"The doll is not the problem, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1574.87,"endTime":1576.43,"body":"patriarch is the problem."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.57,"endTime":1580.6,"body":"Right? And we really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.57,"endTime":1580.6,"body":"like thanks to queer theory,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1580.6,"endTime":1583.57,"body":"like we've really moved away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1580.6,"endTime":1583.57,"body":"from that feminist moment where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.57,"endTime":1588.25,"body":"it wasn't okay to wear like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.57,"endTime":1588.25,"body":"heels if you want to, or, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.25,"endTime":1591.25,"body":"know, to have that highest stem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.25,"endTime":1591.25,"body":"aesthetic, because one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.25,"endTime":1593.83,"body":"things that I really push on in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.25,"endTime":1593.83,"body":"my book is it's not about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.83,"endTime":1598.1499999999999,"body":"aesthetic. Yes, this is about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.83,"endTime":1598.1499999999999,"body":"settler colonialism, white"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.1499999999999,"endTime":1603.22,"body":"supremacy, and, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.1499999999999,"endTime":1603.22,"body":"violence against marginalized"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1603.22,"endTime":1607.24,"body":"people like that. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1603.22,"endTime":1607.24,"body":"there's so much room to play"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.24,"endTime":1610.57,"body":"with gender. And I think Barbie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.24,"endTime":1610.57,"body":"invites us into that, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.57,"endTime":1616.0,"body":"you know, and I think that, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.57,"endTime":1616.0,"body":"know, the fact that the tween"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1616.0,"endTime":1618.6699999999998,"body":"character, whose name I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1616.0,"endTime":1618.6699999999998,"body":"forgetting just now, like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.6699999999998,"endTime":1622.6,"body":"fact that she has that speech"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.6699999999998,"endTime":1622.6,"body":"also, you know, and she's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.6,"endTime":1626.83,"body":"angry. But then she's able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.6,"endTime":1626.83,"body":"heal that anger, like through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.83,"endTime":1632.8899999999999,"body":"Barbie is such a sort of cross"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.83,"endTime":1632.8899999999999,"body":"identifying moment. Queer sense,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.8899999999999,"endTime":1633.37,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1634.84,"endTime":1637.81,"body":"there's so many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1634.84,"endTime":1637.81,"body":"queer moments, I think that that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1637.81,"endTime":1640.8999999999999,"body":"actually, the Barbie movie is so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1637.81,"endTime":1640.8999999999999,"body":"queer, which is why the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1640.8999999999999,"endTime":1644.35,"body":"conservative media was so upset"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1640.8999999999999,"endTime":1644.35,"body":"about it. I think at one point,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1644.35,"endTime":1647.74,"body":"there's even like the colors of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1644.35,"endTime":1647.74,"body":"the trans flag during I think is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1647.74,"endTime":1653.35,"body":"during the man I am number I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1647.74,"endTime":1653.35,"body":"need to watch it again to watch"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1653.35,"endTime":1656.86,"body":"it. And I was like watching What"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1653.35,"endTime":1656.86,"body":"is even happening right now."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1656.86,"endTime":1659.8,"body":"This is the gayest thing I've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1656.86,"endTime":1659.8,"body":"seen in a long time in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1659.8,"endTime":1663.76,"body":"mainstream movie, actually. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1659.8,"endTime":1663.76,"body":"so there's this moment that is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1664.03,"endTime":1667.6299999999999,"body":"just the movie is so trans is so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1664.03,"endTime":1667.6299999999999,"body":"queer, but it's also really a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1667.6299999999999,"endTime":1671.95,"body":"highlighting of just how messed"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1667.6299999999999,"endTime":1671.95,"body":"up kind of white masculinity in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1671.95,"endTime":1677.5,"body":"America is, you know, in a way"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1671.95,"endTime":1677.5,"body":"can. Can. It's really about this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1677.5,"endTime":1681.85,"body":"crisis of like, white men in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1677.5,"endTime":1681.85,"body":"America, right? In some ways,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1681.85,"endTime":1682.3,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1683.08,"endTime":1686.77,"body":"well, I picked up on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1683.08,"endTime":1686.77,"body":"something that I had missed."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.1,"endTime":1691.0,"body":"I've watched it twice now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.1,"endTime":1691.0,"body":"Probably, we'll watch it again"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1696.61,"body":"later today. I'm inspired. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1696.61,"body":"when Ken takes over Barbie land"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.61,"endTime":1700.1499999999999,"body":"and goes and learns about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.61,"endTime":1700.1499999999999,"body":"patriarchy, and forces, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.18,"endTime":1703.6599999999999,"body":"yeah, takes the books out of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.18,"endTime":1703.6599999999999,"body":"lab out of the school library."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.6599999999999,"endTime":1707.56,"body":"And I mean, all of those moments"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.6599999999999,"endTime":1707.56,"body":"are great, like, where he asked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.56,"endTime":1710.32,"body":"to be a doctor, but he has no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.56,"endTime":1710.32,"body":"credentials. And he's like, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.32,"endTime":1717.01,"body":"I'm a man like that commentary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.32,"endTime":1717.01,"body":"without executive race, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.7,"endTime":1720.3999999999999,"body":"you're not doing patriarchy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.7,"endTime":1720.3999999999999,"body":"then very well, if you can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.3999999999999,"endTime":1722.8,"body":"just do whatever you want as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.3999999999999,"endTime":1722.8,"body":"man and you need all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1722.8,"endTime":1725.02,"body":"degrees. And he's like, Oh, no,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1722.8,"endTime":1725.02,"body":"we're doing it very well. We're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.02,"endTime":1729.28,"body":"just hiding it better. Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.02,"endTime":1729.28,"body":"Like, it's just, it's perfect."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.31,"endTime":1733.51,"body":"Like, that was exactly what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.31,"endTime":1733.51,"body":"was saying about the post metoo"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1733.51,"endTime":1738.1,"body":"moment is that, you know, things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1733.51,"endTime":1738.1,"body":"just become folded back in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.19,"endTime":1741.94,"body":"instead of really radically"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.19,"endTime":1741.94,"body":"restructured, it just sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.94,"endTime":1748.0,"body":"gets hauled back in. But there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.94,"endTime":1748.0,"body":"a moment so when can and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1748.0,"endTime":1750.97,"body":"know, I guess the cans, but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1748.0,"endTime":1750.97,"body":"think really Ken is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.97,"endTime":1754.1499999999999,"body":"ringleader, they're the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.97,"endTime":1754.1499999999999,"body":"primary Canada's the Canon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.1499999999999,"endTime":1760.33,"body":"leader. waves a flag that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.1499999999999,"endTime":1760.33,"body":"just remarkably similar to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1760.33,"endTime":1761.59,"body":"January 6."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1762.8799999999999,"endTime":1764.53,"body":"Scene. Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.34,"endTime":1768.94,"body":"And the takeover is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.34,"endTime":1768.94,"body":"violent one. And the takeover is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.94,"endTime":1773.83,"body":"we're going to turn everything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.94,"endTime":1773.83,"body":"into into a saloon basically,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.83,"endTime":1776.9199999999998,"body":"which I have a chapter on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.83,"endTime":1776.9199999999998,"body":"western of my book. So I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.9199999999998,"endTime":1781.72,"body":"appreciated that. Like, for me,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.9199999999998,"endTime":1781.72,"body":"like the Western has been like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.72,"endTime":1785.98,"body":"such a fun part of my book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.72,"endTime":1785.98,"body":"because there are new Westerns"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1785.98,"endTime":1789.43,"body":"that have come out that have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1785.98,"endTime":1789.43,"body":"really revised the the genre. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.43,"endTime":1792.8799999999999,"body":"I look at Westworld and godless"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.43,"endTime":1792.8799999999999,"body":"as being like you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1792.8799999999999,"endTime":1797.08,"body":"redefining it around that me too"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1792.8799999999999,"endTime":1797.08,"body":"moment to like godless came out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.08,"endTime":1799.87,"body":"in 2017, just like a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.08,"endTime":1799.87,"body":"months after it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1799.87,"endTime":1803.8899999999999,"body":"anticipating and I feel but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1799.87,"endTime":1803.8899999999999,"body":"anyway, so the January 6 moment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1803.8899999999999,"endTime":1807.1599999999999,"body":"is in there, and I feel like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1803.8899999999999,"endTime":1807.1599999999999,"body":"there's a lot going on in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.1599999999999,"endTime":1811.8999999999999,"body":"subconscious of the film, too."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.1599999999999,"endTime":1811.8999999999999,"body":"That was fun. And I laughed and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1811.8999999999999,"endTime":1815.35,"body":"I laugh with my students, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1811.8999999999999,"endTime":1815.35,"body":"you're also really like hit at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.35,"endTime":1821.08,"body":"deep level. With what our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.35,"endTime":1821.08,"body":"current moment is like, you know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.08,"endTime":1823.3899999999999,"body":"that we have claimed Barbie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.08,"endTime":1823.3899999999999,"body":"land."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1824.56,"endTime":1827.5,"body":"We have an odd"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1824.56,"endTime":1827.5,"body":"reclaimed Barbie, and find the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1827.5,"endTime":1831.73,"body":"lodger in the movie too. I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1827.5,"endTime":1831.73,"body":"surprised by how deeply hit me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1831.73,"endTime":1836.23,"body":"as somebody in my 50s was I've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1831.73,"endTime":1836.23,"body":"gone through I feel many gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1836.23,"endTime":1842.4099999999999,"body":"iterations in five decades and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1836.23,"endTime":1842.4099999999999,"body":"and you know, there are so many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1842.4099999999999,"endTime":1846.52,"body":"moments in the movie. They're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1842.4099999999999,"endTime":1846.52,"body":"very, like, I would say, funny"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1846.52,"endTime":1851.23,"body":"and gut wrenching at the same"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1846.52,"endTime":1851.23,"body":"time. And, and I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1851.23,"endTime":1854.1699999999998,"body":"really love when you said we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1851.23,"endTime":1854.1699999999998,"body":"haven't reclaimed Barbie land."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1854.1699999999998,"endTime":1856.69,"body":"And I know that there's been no"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1854.1699999999998,"endTime":1856.69,"body":"substance, some commentary on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1856.69,"endTime":1860.47,"body":"social media. I didn't like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1856.69,"endTime":1860.47,"body":"ending, it should be both Barbie"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1860.47,"endTime":1867.1,"body":"and Ken are rolled together. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1860.47,"endTime":1867.1,"body":"I was like, what? Why? No. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1867.1,"endTime":1870.43,"body":"so I think it's also very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1867.1,"endTime":1870.43,"body":"interesting to see how people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1870.43,"endTime":1874.1499999999999,"body":"are reacting to it and going,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1870.43,"endTime":1874.1499999999999,"body":"well, then, you know, Barbie"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1874.1499999999999,"endTime":1878.56,"body":"should be like hearing right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1874.1499999999999,"endTime":1878.56,"body":"And now Barbie and cans, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1878.56,"endTime":1882.55,"body":"know, the both Barbies and cans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1878.56,"endTime":1882.55,"body":"should be equal, right? This"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1882.58,"endTime":1887.95,"body":"idea of like, equality, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1882.58,"endTime":1887.95,"body":"doesn't really actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1888.46,"endTime":1892.84,"body":"undermines the structure the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1888.46,"endTime":1892.84,"body":"foundations right. And so I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1892.84,"endTime":1897.43,"body":"wondering about how you felt"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1892.84,"endTime":1897.43,"body":"about the kind of the reclaiming"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1897.43,"endTime":1903.7,"body":"of Barbie land, from the, from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1897.43,"endTime":1903.7,"body":"the setup?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1905.139,"endTime":1908.289,"body":"Yeah, I think that one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1905.139,"endTime":1908.289,"body":"of the things that I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.319,"endTime":1912.969,"body":"stressed, like, in all of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.319,"endTime":1912.969,"body":"work has been that fundamentally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.969,"endTime":1916.9289999999999,"body":"we talk about transphobia, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.969,"endTime":1916.9289999999999,"body":"talk about homophobia, we talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.9289999999999,"endTime":1918.039,"body":"about it's all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1918.04,"endTime":1919.6599999999999,"body":"misogyny, it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.53,"endTime":1925.36,"body":"at the root of it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.53,"endTime":1925.36,"body":"misogyny. And, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.36,"endTime":1928.8999999999999,"body":"that there's probably a feeling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.36,"endTime":1928.8999999999999,"body":"of fear, like, what if we let"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.8999999999999,"endTime":1932.1699999999998,"body":"the feminine, you know, out of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.8999999999999,"endTime":1932.1699999999998,"body":"the box? Like, what if we let"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.1699999999998,"endTime":1935.9199999999998,"body":"the feminine rule like I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.1699999999998,"endTime":1935.9199999999998,"body":"there's a fear there not only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.9199999999998,"endTime":1939.6699999999998,"body":"for, you know, people who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.9199999999998,"endTime":1939.6699999999998,"body":"identifies who are assigned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.6699999999998,"endTime":1944.05,"body":"male, but also everyone, sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.6699999999998,"endTime":1944.05,"body":"like having this fear of like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.05,"endTime":1948.52,"body":"we need this sort of patriarchal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.05,"endTime":1948.52,"body":"control to organize our lives."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.52,"endTime":1952.93,"body":"Like, it'll be chaos, like this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.52,"endTime":1952.93,"body":"sort of feeling. And that's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1952.93,"endTime":1955.51,"body":"again, one of those feelings, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1952.93,"endTime":1955.51,"body":"you talked about before this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.51,"endTime":1959.47,"body":"sort of seeps in and it's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.51,"endTime":1959.47,"body":"air we breathe, that is anti"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.5,"endTime":1964.18,"body":"feminine, right. So I personally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.5,"endTime":1964.18,"body":"really love the fact that Ken is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.18,"endTime":1969.58,"body":"looking kind of dejected, in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.18,"endTime":1969.58,"body":"key enough, can off sweatshirt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.6399999999999,"endTime":1974.95,"body":"at the end. And you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.6399999999999,"endTime":1974.95,"body":"thing about it, too, that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.95,"endTime":1978.61,"body":"picked up on the second time is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.95,"endTime":1978.61,"body":"that Ken has no emotion in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.61,"endTime":1983.26,"body":"scene. So did he really love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.61,"endTime":1983.26,"body":"Gharbi? Or was it just an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.26,"endTime":1987.46,"body":"accessory to his ego? Like, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.26,"endTime":1987.46,"body":"clear that it was an accessory"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.46,"endTime":1991.57,"body":"to his ego and that the whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.46,"endTime":1991.57,"body":"thing was was about that and in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.57,"endTime":1995.1399999999999,"body":"certain respects, like the last"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.57,"endTime":1995.1399999999999,"body":"scene that they have, where Ken"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1995.1399999999999,"endTime":1998.4099999999999,"body":"doesn't know who he is apart"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1995.1399999999999,"endTime":1998.4099999999999,"body":"from Barbie, but it's really the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1998.44,"endTime":2003.4199999999998,"body":"ego identification. It's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1998.44,"endTime":2003.4199999999998,"body":"fact that Barbie is this is this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.4199999999998,"endTime":2007.1399999999999,"body":"sort of accessory in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.4199999999998,"endTime":2007.1399999999999,"body":"narcissism, a projection, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.1399999999999,"endTime":2013.11,"body":"know what I mean? So, yeah, so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2007.1399999999999,"endTime":2013.11,"body":"think that I, I was very happy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.11,"endTime":2017.8799999999999,"body":"with the fact that Ken was left"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.11,"endTime":2017.8799999999999,"body":"behind in Barbie land to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.8799999999999,"endTime":2021.84,"body":"continue his job of beach"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.8799999999999,"endTime":2021.84,"body":"indefinitely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2022.71,"endTime":2025.77,"body":"I agree. I feel"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2022.71,"endTime":2025.77,"body":"like I was like, no, why Ken is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2025.77,"endTime":2029.76,"body":"not ready to rule like Kanye has"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2025.77,"endTime":2029.76,"body":"to go through his own process of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2029.76,"endTime":2034.59,"body":"like, unfolding undoing finding"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2029.76,"endTime":2034.59,"body":"himself, you know, because this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2034.6499999999999,"endTime":2038.61,"body":"and that's what I love as well"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2034.6499999999999,"endTime":2038.61,"body":"that you know, actually the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2038.61,"endTime":2042.09,"body":"Barbie movie highlights men are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2038.61,"endTime":2042.09,"body":"not okay. And that type of Love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2042.09,"endTime":2045.75,"body":"is not love. It's self"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2042.09,"endTime":2045.75,"body":"centeredness. It is narcissism"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2045.75,"endTime":2049.7400000000002,"body":"is self centeredness is that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2045.75,"endTime":2049.7400000000002,"body":"there is no space for Barbies"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2049.7400000000002,"endTime":2053.4300000000003,"body":"well being, or Barbies"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2049.7400000000002,"endTime":2053.4300000000003,"body":"happiness, right? It's about me,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2053.4300000000003,"endTime":2056.19,"body":"me, me. You're not paying"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2053.4300000000003,"endTime":2056.19,"body":"attention to me. You're not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2056.19,"endTime":2059.79,"body":"giving me what I want. Right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2056.19,"endTime":2059.79,"body":"And therefore because you're not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2059.79,"endTime":2064.92,"body":"giving me what I want now I take"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2059.79,"endTime":2064.92,"body":"everything right. And that is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2064.92,"endTime":2069.81,"body":"not love that but and yet we see"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2064.92,"endTime":2069.81,"body":"that play out in you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2069.81,"endTime":2074.13,"body":"reality TV in dating shows we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2069.81,"endTime":2074.13,"body":"see play out and like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2074.4,"endTime":2077.4,"body":"exactly that. That could be all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2074.4,"endTime":2077.4,"body":"other episodes. I'm pretty sure"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2077.4,"endTime":2078.0,"body":"talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.0,"endTime":2079.35,"body":"I love that genre."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2081.9900000000002,"endTime":2083.9700000000003,"body":"I've just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2081.9900000000002,"endTime":2083.9700000000003,"body":"finished watching the latest"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2083.9700000000003,"endTime":2086.52,"body":"season of love is blind. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2083.9700000000003,"endTime":2086.52,"body":"like, says that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.8700000000003,"endTime":2088.7400000000002,"body":"particular."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2090.4190000000003,"endTime":2093.989,"body":"Right? Totally."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2090.4190000000003,"endTime":2093.989,"body":"Maybe we'll have to do I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2093.989,"endTime":2098.549,"body":"to have like, let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2093.989,"endTime":2098.549,"body":"gender in reality TV shows and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2098.549,"endTime":2101.1890000000003,"body":"what's happening there. But I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2098.549,"endTime":2101.1890000000003,"body":"was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2101.19,"endTime":2103.7400000000002,"body":"the show's way back. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2101.19,"endTime":2103.7400000000002,"body":"mean, I started with love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.7400000000002,"endTime":2109.92,"body":"connection. Yes. And before I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.7400000000002,"endTime":2109.92,"body":"even knew what a date was,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2109.9500000000003,"endTime":2113.73,"body":"because my parents let me watch"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2109.9500000000003,"endTime":2113.73,"body":"whatever I wanted on TV. TV was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.73,"endTime":2117.36,"body":"my, my surrogate family, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.73,"endTime":2117.36,"body":"will, so I'm very into pop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2117.36,"endTime":2120.9,"body":"culture because I had that kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2117.36,"endTime":2120.9,"body":"of close relationship with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2120.9,"endTime":2125.4300000000003,"body":"characters to where they became"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2120.9,"endTime":2125.4300000000003,"body":"like, you know, I think there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.4300000000003,"endTime":2127.9500000000003,"body":"a term for that, that that I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.4300000000003,"endTime":2127.9500000000003,"body":"forgetting but where you develop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2127.9500000000003,"endTime":2132.0,"body":"a relationship with people on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2127.9500000000003,"endTime":2132.0,"body":"television or in film"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2133.4100000000003,"endTime":2135.3300000000004,"body":"like that. Our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2133.4100000000003,"endTime":2135.3300000000004,"body":"social type of relation"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2135.3300000000004,"endTime":2136.0800000000004,"body":"parasocial,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2136.38,"endTime":2138.51,"body":"that's the term. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2136.38,"endTime":2138.51,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2138.539,"endTime":2141.869,"body":"Yeah. And, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2138.539,"endTime":2141.869,"body":"know, I love popular culture as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2141.869,"endTime":2145.4990000000003,"body":"well. And I think that's one of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2141.869,"endTime":2145.4990000000003,"body":"the, you know, many reasons that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2145.4990000000003,"endTime":2147.8990000000003,"body":"I loved your book, because they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2145.4990000000003,"endTime":2147.8990000000003,"body":"you do kind of talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2147.8990000000003,"endTime":2153.1490000000003,"body":"popular culture as well. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2147.8990000000003,"endTime":2153.1490000000003,"body":"just how kind of masculinity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2153.1490000000003,"endTime":2158.6690000000003,"body":"plays out, not just kind of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2153.1490000000003,"endTime":2158.6690000000003,"body":"political stage or the, but also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2158.6690000000003,"endTime":2162.179,"body":"like the popular culture stage,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2158.6690000000003,"endTime":2162.179,"body":"so to speak, combat fragility,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2162.329,"endTime":2163.7090000000003,"body":"normative masculinity."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.88,"endTime":2167.9100000000003,"body":"Yeah, and I think that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.88,"endTime":2167.9100000000003,"body":"you know, the whole idea of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.9100000000003,"endTime":2174.8700000000003,"body":"like, the Hollywood movie, can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.9100000000003,"endTime":2174.8700000000003,"body":"be a real source of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.8700000000003,"endTime":2177.9,"body":"the term that I use in the book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.8700000000003,"endTime":2177.9,"body":"is unruly alliances, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2177.9,"endTime":2180.6600000000003,"body":"bonding with people who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2177.9,"endTime":2180.6600000000003,"body":"different from you. And one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.6600000000003,"endTime":2183.3300000000004,"body":"the things I really loved about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.6600000000003,"endTime":2183.3300000000004,"body":"going to see the Barbie movie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2183.3300000000004,"endTime":2187.65,"body":"was that there, I was surrounded"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2183.3300000000004,"endTime":2187.65,"body":"by such a diverse group of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2187.65,"endTime":2190.32,"body":"people. And again, it reminded"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2187.65,"endTime":2190.32,"body":"me of those classes that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2190.32,"endTime":2193.1400000000003,"body":"talked about where like, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2190.32,"endTime":2193.1400000000003,"body":"are really a lot of people that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2193.1400000000003,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"are interested in this movie,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2193.1400000000003,"endTime":2195.69,"body":"but every once in a while, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2200.25,"body":"would see like a dad with his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.69,"endTime":2200.25,"body":"young assigned female child on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2200.25,"endTime":2204.15,"body":"his phone, like not paying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2200.25,"endTime":2204.15,"body":"attention, and I kind of wanted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.15,"endTime":2206.5800000000004,"body":"to nudge him and be like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.15,"endTime":2206.5800000000004,"body":"know, you really, you really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2206.5800000000004,"endTime":2207.96,"body":"should be looking at this."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2208.71,"endTime":2210.3300000000004,"body":"Because there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2208.71,"endTime":2210.3300000000004,"body":"gonna be some questions."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.17,"endTime":2215.55,"body":"Right, exactly."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2216.539,"endTime":2220.4390000000003,"body":"Yeah. And this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2216.539,"endTime":2220.4390000000003,"body":"should be questions, right? Even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2220.9190000000003,"endTime":2224.6690000000003,"body":"with my youngest was a boy. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2220.9190000000003,"endTime":2224.6690000000003,"body":"he, he came into my life when I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2224.6690000000003,"endTime":2228.4790000000003,"body":"was a little older, like seven"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2224.6690000000003,"endTime":2228.4790000000003,"body":"years old. And just a couple of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2228.4790000000003,"endTime":2231.3590000000004,"body":"years ago, we had this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2228.4790000000003,"endTime":2231.3590000000004,"body":"conversation around masculinity,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2231.389,"endTime":2235.889,"body":"right? It was like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2231.389,"endTime":2235.889,"body":"well, I know that often is like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2235.889,"endTime":2239.069,"body":"this white man that do those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2235.889,"endTime":2239.069,"body":"things. And what does it mean"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2239.069,"endTime":2242.039,"body":"that I am one? And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2239.069,"endTime":2242.039,"body":"That's a great question to ask"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2242.039,"endTime":2245.1290000000004,"body":"yourself, right. And we have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2242.039,"endTime":2245.1290000000004,"body":"this great conversation about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2245.1290000000004,"endTime":2248.789,"body":"the connection with like, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2245.1290000000004,"endTime":2248.789,"body":"know, white supremacy and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2248.789,"endTime":2252.6290000000004,"body":"masculinity and all those things"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2248.789,"endTime":2252.6290000000004,"body":"that it's not about, there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2252.6290000000004,"endTime":2256.2290000000003,"body":"nothing, you know, it's not bad"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2252.6290000000004,"endTime":2256.2290000000003,"body":"to be a boy. It's just you have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2256.2290000000003,"endTime":2259.9790000000003,"body":"to be aware of why, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2256.2290000000003,"endTime":2259.9790000000003,"body":"and this discourses and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2259.9790000000003,"endTime":2263.039,"body":"remember, he was so angry"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2259.9790000000003,"endTime":2263.039,"body":"anyone, why are they not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2263.039,"endTime":2266.159,"body":"teaching me this in school? You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2263.039,"endTime":2266.159,"body":"know, that was his middle"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2266.159,"endTime":2269.039,"body":"schooler reaction was, why are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2266.159,"endTime":2269.039,"body":"they not teaching me this in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2269.039,"endTime":2271.619,"body":"school? And I was like, You're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2269.039,"endTime":2271.619,"body":"right. Why are they not teaching"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2271.619,"endTime":2274.679,"body":"you this at school? Please go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2271.619,"endTime":2274.679,"body":"ask your teachers. I will also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2274.679,"endTime":2277.289,"body":"ask your teachers why they're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2274.679,"endTime":2277.289,"body":"not teaching you this in school."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2277.7090000000003,"endTime":2282.059,"body":"Right. But it's this idea that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2277.7090000000003,"endTime":2282.059,"body":"often a lot of this discourse"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2282.0890000000004,"endTime":2287.639,"body":"can is so easily relegated to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2282.0890000000004,"endTime":2287.639,"body":"academic journals, or academic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2287.639,"endTime":2292.079,"body":"books. I mean, I love your book."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2287.639,"endTime":2292.079,"body":"And also, it, it is a dense"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2292.079,"endTime":2295.199,"body":"read, I think for the general"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2292.079,"endTime":2295.199,"body":"public potentially, right, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2295.199,"endTime":2299.6690000000003,"body":"know, not not to dance. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2295.199,"endTime":2299.6690000000003,"body":"definitely there's a level of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2299.6690000000003,"endTime":2303.509,"body":"challenge. You know, right. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2299.6690000000003,"endTime":2303.509,"body":"kind of beyond I don't know, a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2303.509,"endTime":2308.039,"body":"middle schooler level as it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2303.509,"endTime":2308.039,"body":"should be. Yeah. So I love that,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2308.039,"endTime":2311.2490000000003,"body":"like, how do we bridge this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2308.039,"endTime":2311.2490000000003,"body":"divide, so to speak, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2311.2490000000003,"endTime":2314.6090000000004,"body":"conversations are happening in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2311.2490000000003,"endTime":2314.6090000000004,"body":"like queers, nannies and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2314.6090000000004,"endTime":2319.8590000000004,"body":"masculinity studies. And, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2314.6090000000004,"endTime":2319.8590000000004,"body":"know, and then there's the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2319.8590000000004,"endTime":2322.619,"body":"Barbie movie that I think in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2319.8590000000004,"endTime":2322.619,"body":"some ways, is bridging some of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2322.619,"endTime":2327.0890000000004,"body":"those conversations. How do we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2322.619,"endTime":2327.0890000000004,"body":"do this? How do we bring this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2327.0890000000004,"endTime":2331.4390000000003,"body":"conversation more into an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2327.0890000000004,"endTime":2331.4390000000003,"body":"educational context? In everyday"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2331.4390000000003,"endTime":2332.369,"body":"context?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.09,"endTime":2336.21,"body":"I mean, that's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.09,"endTime":2336.21,"body":"question like, considering, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2336.21,"endTime":2339.9300000000003,"body":"know, back to, I think you said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2336.21,"endTime":2339.9300000000003,"body":"it was your, your son, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.26,"endTime":2343.8300000000004,"body":"Yeah, your son, like back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.26,"endTime":2343.8300000000004,"body":"your son's story, like, I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2343.8300000000004,"endTime":2346.8900000000003,"body":"those moments all the time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2343.8300000000004,"endTime":2346.8900000000003,"body":"lately, retroactively, where I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.8900000000003,"endTime":2349.53,"body":"think why didn't I learn this in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.8900000000003,"endTime":2349.53,"body":"school? And why didn't I learn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2349.98,"endTime":2354.6000000000004,"body":"school, and like the fact that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2349.98,"endTime":2354.6000000000004,"body":"right now, education is being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.6000000000004,"endTime":2360.09,"body":"attacked? You know, I just moved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.6000000000004,"endTime":2360.09,"body":"from Tennessee, you know, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.09,"endTime":2364.71,"body":"red state to Illinois. And, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.09,"endTime":2364.71,"body":"know, I got gender affirming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.71,"endTime":2368.1000000000004,"body":"care in Tennessee. And it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.71,"endTime":2368.1000000000004,"body":"terrifying, because just as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.1000000000004,"endTime":2371.1600000000003,"body":"was getting that gender for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.1000000000004,"endTime":2371.1600000000003,"body":"Medicare, you know, you have the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.1600000000003,"endTime":2375.57,"body":"senator of Tennessee coming out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.1600000000003,"endTime":2375.57,"body":"and saying that the clinic that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.57,"endTime":2379.3500000000004,"body":"I went to, is mutilating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.57,"endTime":2379.3500000000004,"body":"children. And then the whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2379.3500000000004,"endTime":2382.17,"body":"thing just really broke open."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2379.3500000000004,"endTime":2382.17,"body":"And one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2382.17,"endTime":2386.3100000000004,"body":"wanted to talk about also is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2382.17,"endTime":2386.3100000000004,"body":"that I loved, loved loved the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.3100000000004,"endTime":2391.29,"body":"graphic novel, gender queer by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.3100000000004,"endTime":2391.29,"body":"my co, Bobby. And so I taught"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.29,"endTime":2395.04,"body":"that book in a trans studies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.29,"endTime":2395.04,"body":"class back in 2018. This is sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.04,"endTime":2398.1600000000003,"body":"of addressing your question of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.04,"endTime":2398.1600000000003,"body":"like, what kinds of books and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.1600000000003,"endTime":2402.36,"body":"materials I think do bridge that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.1600000000003,"endTime":2402.36,"body":"gaps and how I would also like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2402.36,"endTime":2408.1800000000003,"body":"to do more popular writing once"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2402.36,"endTime":2408.1800000000003,"body":"I get tenure. But to get tenure,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.3900000000003,"endTime":2413.3700000000003,"body":"so um, you know, so that graphic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.3900000000003,"endTime":2413.3700000000003,"body":"novel was something that I that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.3700000000003,"endTime":2417.96,"body":"I taught, and I was just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.3700000000003,"endTime":2417.96,"body":"literally floored and shocked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.7400000000002,"endTime":2424.26,"body":"that that book is now the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.7400000000002,"endTime":2424.26,"body":"banned book in the country. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.29,"endTime":2428.79,"body":"that it wasn't a politicized"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.29,"endTime":2428.79,"body":"move for me to teach that book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.03,"endTime":2432.8700000000003,"body":"2018 and my students loved it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.03,"endTime":2432.8700000000003,"body":"and more than anything else, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.8700000000003,"endTime":2437.46,"body":"really told mice Don't worry,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.8700000000003,"endTime":2437.46,"body":"you know, from a much different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.46,"endTime":2443.04,"body":"generational viewpoint, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.46,"endTime":2443.04,"body":"still. And now like I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2443.04,"endTime":2446.94,"body":"now I'm in a blue state in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2443.04,"endTime":2446.94,"body":"very interesting location in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2446.94,"endTime":2450.4500000000003,"body":"Southern Illinois that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2446.94,"endTime":2450.4500000000003,"body":"becoming like a place for trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.4500000000003,"endTime":2455.4,"body":"refugees who are clean red"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.4500000000003,"endTime":2455.4,"body":"states, reproductive justice,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2455.4,"endTime":2462.2400000000002,"body":"like we're just surrounded in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2455.4,"endTime":2462.2400000000002,"body":"lot of ways. And so. So for me,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.2400000000002,"endTime":2467.2200000000003,"body":"those kinds of graphic novels,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.2400000000002,"endTime":2467.2200000000003,"body":"like the popular culture that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.2200000000003,"endTime":2471.3300000000004,"body":"talk about in the book, like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.2200000000003,"endTime":2471.3300000000004,"body":"talk about the poet performer,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.3300000000004,"endTime":2479.1600000000003,"body":"Andrea Gibson, nonbinary, poet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.3300000000004,"endTime":2479.1600000000003,"body":"performer, who, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.1600000000003,"endTime":2482.28,"body":"I have moments in the book that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.1600000000003,"endTime":2482.28,"body":"I'm hoping people will grab on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.28,"endTime":2485.9100000000003,"body":"to who are not super high end"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.28,"endTime":2485.9100000000003,"body":"academic, and I try to sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2486.0600000000004,"endTime":2493.02,"body":"balance that out. Because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2486.0600000000004,"endTime":2493.02,"body":"think that there are so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.02,"endTime":2497.4300000000003,"body":"things that can't should be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.02,"endTime":2497.4300000000003,"body":"should be, should be more widely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.4300000000003,"endTime":2501.6600000000003,"body":"available to people too. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.4300000000003,"endTime":2501.6600000000003,"body":"shutting down of that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.69,"endTime":2508.5,"body":"intellectual abuse in my mind."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.69,"endTime":2508.5,"body":"And so, yeah, so yeah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.5,"endTime":2509.07,"body":"really know where"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2510.1800000000003,"endTime":2512.46,"body":"that's okay. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2510.1800000000003,"endTime":2512.46,"body":"mean, honestly, we can just go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2512.46,"endTime":2517.2000000000003,"body":"to this place of grief, even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2512.46,"endTime":2517.2000000000003,"body":"though not only like, I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2517.2000000000003,"endTime":2522.3,"body":"that, you know, I remember when"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2517.2000000000003,"endTime":2522.3,"body":"Donald Trump the first time, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2522.3,"endTime":2525.6600000000003,"body":"know, was gonna said they were"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2522.3,"endTime":2525.6600000000003,"body":"gonna run for election and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2525.6600000000003,"endTime":2528.54,"body":"everybody was like, oh, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2525.6600000000003,"endTime":2528.54,"body":"know, it was almost like, it was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2528.54,"endTime":2532.1400000000003,"body":"a joke. And I was like, Oh, here"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2528.54,"endTime":2532.1400000000003,"body":"we go. Like, this is just the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2532.1400000000003,"endTime":2535.6200000000003,"body":"next chapter in the rise of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2532.1400000000003,"endTime":2535.6200000000003,"body":"fascism, right? And people were"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2535.6200000000003,"endTime":2538.9500000000003,"body":"like, You're exaggerating. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2535.6200000000003,"endTime":2538.9500000000003,"body":"because you're like you coming"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2538.9500000000003,"endTime":2542.52,"body":"from Italy, and you see fascism"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2538.9500000000003,"endTime":2542.52,"body":"everywhere. And I was like, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2542.52,"endTime":2546.96,"body":"then you know, not shortly, not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2542.52,"endTime":2546.96,"body":"long after sorry. People are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2546.96,"endTime":2551.28,"body":"like, Oh, fascism. I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2546.96,"endTime":2551.28,"body":"yep. Some of I don't know, maybe"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2551.28,"endTime":2555.36,"body":"I am ever vigilant. Because I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2551.28,"endTime":2555.36,"body":"was brought up, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2555.42,"endTime":2560.3100000000004,"body":"teachers and grandparents that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2555.42,"endTime":2560.3100000000004,"body":"talked about, you know, having"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2560.3100000000004,"endTime":2565.29,"body":"survived fascism. But where was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2560.3100000000004,"endTime":2565.29,"body":"I going with this? My ADHD brain"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2565.29,"endTime":2571.53,"body":"will come around in a moment"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2565.29,"endTime":2571.53,"body":"again. And if it doesn't, we'll"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2571.53,"endTime":2574.7400000000002,"body":"just have to cut this bit. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2571.53,"endTime":2574.7400000000002,"body":"that's okay. And if we don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2574.7400000000002,"endTime":2580.11,"body":"carry on, get to see the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2574.7400000000002,"endTime":2580.11,"body":"process, but you know, for it,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2580.38,"endTime":2580.65,"body":"no, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.65,"endTime":2583.92,"body":"think fascism. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.65,"endTime":2583.92,"body":"know, I do talk about this quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.92,"endTime":2588.9300000000003,"body":"a bit in my book that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.92,"endTime":2588.9300000000003,"body":"American fascism has always been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.9300000000003,"endTime":2592.44,"body":"with us, the seeds of it, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.9300000000003,"endTime":2592.44,"body":"know, and enslavement, the seeds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.44,"endTime":2597.42,"body":"of it, and genocide of American"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.44,"endTime":2597.42,"body":"Indians, Native Americans, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.42,"endTime":2602.67,"body":"know, internal, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.42,"endTime":2602.67,"body":"incarceration of black and brown"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2602.67,"endTime":2606.54,"body":"folks predominantly, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2602.67,"endTime":2606.54,"body":"accelerating, you know, in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2606.54,"endTime":2610.38,"body":"latter part of the 20th century,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2606.54,"endTime":2610.38,"body":"like, all of that is fascist."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2611.1600000000003,"endTime":2614.25,"body":"Yes. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2611.1600000000003,"endTime":2614.25,"body":"that, oh, my brain was."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.54,"endTime":2618.57,"body":"We're just seeing it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.54,"endTime":2618.57,"body":"now with the gloves off."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2619.44,"endTime":2622.2000000000003,"body":"Exactly. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2619.44,"endTime":2622.2000000000003,"body":"think that literally seen books"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2622.2000000000003,"endTime":2626.01,"body":"banned, it's hard to deny it."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2622.2000000000003,"endTime":2626.01,"body":"Right. I was like, literally,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2626.01,"endTime":2629.9700000000003,"body":"that the parallels are all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2626.01,"endTime":2629.9700000000003,"body":"there, right? Going after trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2629.9700000000003,"endTime":2636.1800000000003,"body":"folks. You know, pre World War"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2629.9700000000003,"endTime":2636.1800000000003,"body":"Two Berlin, book banning, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2636.1800000000003,"endTime":2641.25,"body":"know, I mean, really, it's not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2636.1800000000003,"endTime":2641.25,"body":"even subtext anymore. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2641.25,"endTime":2648.21,"body":"the text is all there in terms"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2641.25,"endTime":2648.21,"body":"of just kind of incredible push"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2648.21,"endTime":2652.05,"body":"towards like this anti"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2648.21,"endTime":2652.05,"body":"intellectualism, the sphere of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2652.05,"endTime":2657.69,"body":"knowledge, the sphere of books,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2652.05,"endTime":2657.69,"body":"right? This veneer of critical"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2657.69,"endTime":2663.3,"body":"race theory, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2657.69,"endTime":2663.3,"body":"sphere of gender ideology, right"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2663.3,"endTime":2669.42,"body":"to use all those terms that are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2663.3,"endTime":2669.42,"body":"kind of so pervasive. And it and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2669.4500000000003,"endTime":2673.4100000000003,"body":"while I understand on one hand"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2669.4500000000003,"endTime":2673.4100000000003,"body":"that it stems from fear and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2673.4100000000003,"endTime":2676.9500000000003,"body":"certainty living under late"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2673.4100000000003,"endTime":2676.9500000000003,"body":"stage capitalism, it is also I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2676.9500000000003,"endTime":2680.88,"body":"think, scary and horrifying for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2676.9500000000003,"endTime":2680.88,"body":"a lot of minorities, for a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2680.88,"endTime":2684.3,"body":"of minoritized communities for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2680.88,"endTime":2684.3,"body":"lots of good reasons. And some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2684.3,"endTime":2689.13,"body":"wondering how you, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2684.3,"endTime":2689.13,"body":"know you bring that into the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2689.13,"endTime":2692.4900000000002,"body":"book, right? Like how we cannot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2689.13,"endTime":2692.4900000000002,"body":"talk about masculinity without"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2692.4900000000002,"endTime":2695.94,"body":"talking about race. We cannot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2692.4900000000002,"endTime":2695.94,"body":"talk about masculinity without"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2695.94,"endTime":2699.9,"body":"talking about racial capitalism,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2695.94,"endTime":2699.9,"body":"actually, specifically, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2700.17,"endTime":2704.6400000000003,"body":"and the political stage. And so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2700.17,"endTime":2704.6400000000003,"body":"yes, I'm wondering, like, if you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2704.9100000000003,"endTime":2707.73,"body":"want to say a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2704.9100000000003,"endTime":2707.73,"body":"about the connections that you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2707.73,"endTime":2708.7200000000003,"body":"make in the book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.559,"endTime":2714.0890000000004,"body":"Yeah. So one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.559,"endTime":2714.0890000000004,"body":"things that I really wanted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2714.0890000000004,"endTime":2719.6690000000003,"body":"do was to make a book that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2714.0890000000004,"endTime":2719.6690000000003,"body":"celebrated resistance. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2719.6690000000003,"endTime":2724.199,"body":"want to make a book that was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2719.6690000000003,"endTime":2724.199,"body":"dreary description of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.199,"endTime":2728.2490000000003,"body":"present, although I do quite a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.199,"endTime":2728.2490000000003,"body":"bit of that. Like, what I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2728.2490000000003,"endTime":2733.6490000000003,"body":"wanted to talk about was how,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2728.2490000000003,"endTime":2733.6490000000003,"body":"you know, you know the word of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.679,"endTime":2737.6090000000004,"body":"the The word sort of exuberant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.679,"endTime":2737.6090000000004,"body":"masculinity or joyful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.6090000000004,"endTime":2742.5890000000004,"body":"masculinity through a queer and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.6090000000004,"endTime":2742.5890000000004,"body":"trans lens comes into mind. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2742.5890000000004,"endTime":2748.259,"body":"that these are all valid and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2742.5890000000004,"endTime":2748.259,"body":"wonderful and colorful and, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.259,"endTime":2753.569,"body":"know, vibrant masculinities that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.259,"endTime":2753.569,"body":"are queer and trans that have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.569,"endTime":2757.289,"body":"something to show us about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.569,"endTime":2757.289,"body":"masculinity really can be like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.289,"endTime":2761.849,"body":"if we associate it with like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.289,"endTime":2761.849,"body":"phallic sexuality and, and power"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.849,"endTime":2765.4190000000003,"body":"and assertion or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.849,"endTime":2765.4190000000003,"body":"whatever you associate it with,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.4190000000003,"endTime":2769.6490000000003,"body":"and that sort of, like, young"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.4190000000003,"endTime":2769.6490000000003,"body":"dimension of things can be used,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.8590000000004,"endTime":2774.869,"body":"like productively towards social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.8590000000004,"endTime":2774.869,"body":"justice goals, towards giving us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.869,"endTime":2777.7490000000003,"body":"pleasure as well. So giving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.869,"endTime":2777.7490000000003,"body":"folks pleasure, and that's one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.7490000000003,"endTime":2781.0190000000002,"body":"of the things that I think is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.7490000000003,"endTime":2781.0190000000002,"body":"important, too, is sort of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2781.0190000000002,"endTime":2784.1090000000004,"body":"pleasures of masculinity, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2781.0190000000002,"endTime":2784.1090000000004,"body":"like the pleasures of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.1090000000004,"endTime":2788.849,"body":"femininity, can be available to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.1090000000004,"endTime":2788.849,"body":"all kinds of different people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2788.849,"endTime":2792.599,"body":"So, like, I talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2788.849,"endTime":2792.599,"body":"Performance Art, and I talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2792.599,"endTime":2796.829,"body":"about like, using sex toys and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2792.599,"endTime":2796.829,"body":"performance art, you know, as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2796.829,"endTime":2801.449,"body":"way to sort of challenge like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2796.829,"endTime":2801.449,"body":"this, like, so called biological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2801.449,"endTime":2807.6290000000004,"body":"supremacy of, of assigned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2801.449,"endTime":2807.6290000000004,"body":"masculinity. You know, I bring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2807.6290000000004,"endTime":2810.659,"body":"in, you know, like I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2807.6290000000004,"endTime":2810.659,"body":"the Westerns already, but I also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2810.659,"endTime":2814.829,"body":"talk about unions like I talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2810.659,"endTime":2814.829,"body":"about a book that people really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.8590000000004,"endTime":2818.489,"body":"have loved and loved and loved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.8590000000004,"endTime":2818.489,"body":"with it, which is, Leslie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2818.489,"endTime":2823.409,"body":"Feinberg stone which blues and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2818.489,"endTime":2823.409,"body":"had the really special"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2823.409,"endTime":2827.9390000000003,"body":"experience of talking with many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2823.409,"endTime":2827.9390000000003,"body":"Bruce Pratt, Feinberg, late,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2827.9390000000003,"endTime":2831.989,"body":"fine, late fuzzy Feinberg's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2827.9390000000003,"endTime":2831.989,"body":"partner who recently passed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.989,"endTime":2836.159,"body":"away. And I was so glad that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.989,"endTime":2836.159,"body":"had that opportunity, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2836.159,"endTime":2839.4590000000003,"body":"she just said, Leslie would have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2836.159,"endTime":2839.4590000000003,"body":"loved your read of this book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2839.7290000000003,"endTime":2843.8390000000004,"body":"Because I approach it as about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2839.7290000000003,"endTime":2843.8390000000004,"body":"work. And I approach it from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2843.8390000000004,"endTime":2848.159,"body":"perspective of, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2843.8390000000004,"endTime":2848.159,"body":"butches banding together, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2848.159,"endTime":2852.2690000000002,"body":"know, to protect one another,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2848.159,"endTime":2852.2690000000002,"body":"you know, on the factory floors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2852.2690000000002,"endTime":2855.4190000000003,"body":"for example. So I address sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2852.2690000000002,"endTime":2855.4190000000003,"body":"of unions, and that's such a hot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.4190000000003,"endTime":2858.809,"body":"topic right now, of course, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.4190000000003,"endTime":2858.809,"body":"we have all these strikes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.809,"endTime":2861.509,"body":"happening. But this is another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.809,"endTime":2861.509,"body":"thing that I feel like I missed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2861.509,"endTime":2864.119,"body":"like anticipated, because at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2861.509,"endTime":2864.119,"body":"time, I was like, oh, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.119,"endTime":2867.179,"body":"some Amazon stuff going on. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.119,"endTime":2867.179,"body":"there's stuff going on with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2867.179,"endTime":2870.179,"body":"Chipotle. And you know, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2867.179,"endTime":2870.179,"body":"were little things happening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2870.179,"endTime":2874.3790000000004,"body":"here and there. But it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2870.179,"endTime":2874.3790000000004,"body":"massively exploded from where it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.3790000000004,"endTime":2878.6090000000004,"body":"was. I mean, it's not at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.3790000000004,"endTime":2878.6090000000004,"body":"massive mass point. But I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.6090000000004,"endTime":2882.599,"body":"it's just such a dramatic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.6090000000004,"endTime":2882.599,"body":"increase in union activity and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2882.599,"endTime":2885.299,"body":"people being pissed about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2882.599,"endTime":2885.299,"body":"capitalism, quite honestly."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2885.9,"endTime":2888.7200000000003,"body":"So many people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2885.9,"endTime":2888.7200000000003,"body":"are tired of like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2888.75,"endTime":2891.96,"body":"we're going, I would say, we're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2888.75,"endTime":2891.96,"body":"still going for a pandemic, even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2891.96,"endTime":2894.6000000000004,"body":"though everybody's pretending"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2891.96,"endTime":2894.6000000000004,"body":"we're not right. We're still"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2894.6000000000004,"endTime":2898.11,"body":"going through a pandemic, people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2894.6000000000004,"endTime":2898.11,"body":"are still dying, you know, where"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2898.1400000000003,"endTime":2900.75,"body":"and people are like, Why is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2898.1400000000003,"endTime":2900.75,"body":"everybody so tired? So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2900.75,"endTime":2905.52,"body":"dysregulated, all our executive"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2900.75,"endTime":2905.52,"body":"functioning is kind of gone to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2905.52,"endTime":2910.1400000000003,"body":"hell, in a handbasket, or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2905.52,"endTime":2910.1400000000003,"body":"whatever. Whatever the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2911.04,"endTime":2914.94,"body":"expression is, right? And people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2911.04,"endTime":2914.94,"body":"are like, so confusing. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2914.94,"endTime":2918.09,"body":"like, is it confusing, though?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2914.94,"endTime":2918.09,"body":"Or is it like, we're also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2918.09,"endTime":2921.27,"body":"exhausted by late stage"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2918.09,"endTime":2921.27,"body":"capitalism, and people no longer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2921.27,"endTime":2925.4700000000003,"body":"want to just, you know, use"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2921.27,"endTime":2925.4700000000003,"body":"their body minds as commodities,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2925.4700000000003,"endTime":2930.63,"body":"just on the altar of capitalism,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2925.4700000000003,"endTime":2930.63,"body":"and to make more money for Jeff"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2930.63,"endTime":2935.13,"body":"Bezos or whoever has way more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2930.63,"endTime":2935.13,"body":"money than God. Right. And one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2935.13,"endTime":2938.8500000000004,"body":"of the things I love about your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2935.13,"endTime":2938.8500000000004,"body":"book is that you it is that it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2938.8500000000004,"endTime":2942.6000000000004,"body":"not just about, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2938.8500000000004,"endTime":2942.6000000000004,"body":"would say that trauma of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2942.6000000000004,"endTime":2947.1600000000003,"body":"normative masculinity, but it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2942.6000000000004,"endTime":2947.1600000000003,"body":"also the potential expansiveness"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2947.46,"endTime":2953.3100000000004,"body":"of, you know, relationality of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2947.46,"endTime":2953.3100000000004,"body":"care, right? And we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2953.3100000000004,"endTime":2957.4500000000003,"body":"that really emerging, like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2953.3100000000004,"endTime":2957.4500000000003,"body":"idea of mutual aid, that Tomomi"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2957.51,"endTime":2961.29,"body":"almost mainstream is talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2957.51,"endTime":2961.29,"body":"about mainstream mutual aid to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2961.29,"endTime":2964.29,"body":"people who are not like Conor"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2961.29,"endTime":2964.29,"body":"kissed or something that they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2964.29,"endTime":2968.2200000000003,"body":"understand the concept, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2964.29,"endTime":2968.2200000000003,"body":"And it's like, it's amazing to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2968.2200000000003,"endTime":2972.4500000000003,"body":"me, and so let's go there. Let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2968.2200000000003,"endTime":2972.4500000000003,"body":"talk about Yeah, how, in some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2972.4500000000003,"endTime":2978.21,"body":"ways, the, the Madison the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2972.4500000000003,"endTime":2978.21,"body":"healing is probably in community"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2978.21,"endTime":2980.76,"body":"and that relationality and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2978.21,"endTime":2980.76,"body":"mutual care."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2981.539,"endTime":2984.6890000000003,"body":"Yeah, I mean, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2981.539,"endTime":2984.6890000000003,"body":"think about back to toxic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2984.6890000000003,"endTime":2988.049,"body":"masculinity, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2984.6890000000003,"endTime":2988.049,"body":"about independence and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2988.049,"endTime":2992.009,"body":"ruggedness. And, you know, John"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2988.049,"endTime":2992.009,"body":"Wayne, I know, this is an old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2992.009,"endTime":2994.829,"body":"icon that maybe a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2992.009,"endTime":2994.829,"body":"listeners won't know who he is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2995.069,"endTime":2999.929,"body":"but I still see his picture on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2995.069,"endTime":2999.929,"body":"like, yes, supermarket magazines"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2999.929,"endTime":3002.929,"body":"and such like that, like, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2999.929,"endTime":3002.929,"body":"still has quite a cult following"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3002.929,"endTime":3007.4590000000003,"body":"like, independence, autonomy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3002.929,"endTime":3007.4590000000003,"body":"And also, you know, if I see an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.4590000000003,"endTime":3011.329,"body":"enemy, which is normally an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.4590000000003,"endTime":3011.329,"body":"American, Indian, or Native"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.329,"endTime":3014.2090000000003,"body":"American person, I have the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.329,"endTime":3014.2090000000003,"body":"right to kill that person."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3014.539,"endTime":3018.9790000000003,"body":"Right? Same with other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3014.539,"endTime":3018.9790000000003,"body":"marginalized groups marginalized"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3018.9790000000003,"endTime":3024.079,"body":"by race. And so, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3018.9790000000003,"endTime":3024.079,"body":"feel like, you know, that, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3024.079,"endTime":3028.3990000000003,"body":"kind of toxic masculinity needs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3024.079,"endTime":3028.3990000000003,"body":"to be countered, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3028.3990000000003,"endTime":3031.9990000000003,"body":"again, it's it's not so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3028.3990000000003,"endTime":3031.9990000000003,"body":"about aesthetics or style. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3031.9990000000003,"endTime":3036.7090000000003,"body":"much more about we need To start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3031.9990000000003,"endTime":3036.7090000000003,"body":"caring for one another, like, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3036.7090000000003,"endTime":3040.5190000000002,"body":"need to get out of this crisis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3036.7090000000003,"endTime":3040.5190000000002,"body":"of empathy that we're in, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3040.5190000000002,"endTime":3044.239,"body":"know, we need to on the daily"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3040.5190000000002,"endTime":3044.239,"body":"like, on an individual level,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3044.239,"endTime":3048.9190000000003,"body":"but also when it comes to across"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3044.239,"endTime":3048.9190000000003,"body":"identity groups, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3048.9190000000003,"endTime":3052.699,"body":"the the Combahee River"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3048.9190000000003,"endTime":3052.699,"body":"collective statement, the black"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3052.699,"endTime":3056.4190000000003,"body":"feminist statement back in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3052.699,"endTime":3056.4190000000003,"body":"1970s was like, you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3056.4190000000003,"endTime":3060.469,"body":"to fight for my own oppression,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3056.4190000000003,"endTime":3060.469,"body":"but also, like, link up with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3060.469,"endTime":3063.4390000000003,"body":"other groups that are oppressed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3060.469,"endTime":3063.4390000000003,"body":"because we're not going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3063.4390000000003,"endTime":3067.759,"body":"able to do this alone. Like, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3063.4390000000003,"endTime":3067.759,"body":"that is, what has really come to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3067.759,"endTime":3071.659,"body":"the fore for me is we have, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3067.759,"endTime":3071.659,"body":"know, the complete rollback, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3071.659,"endTime":3075.469,"body":"might even say decimation of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3071.659,"endTime":3075.469,"body":"reproductive justice,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3075.469,"endTime":3079.3390000000004,"body":"reproductive rights, we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3075.469,"endTime":3079.3390000000004,"body":"trans people suffering in ways"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3079.3390000000004,"endTime":3083.0890000000004,"body":"that just breaks my heart daily,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3079.3390000000004,"endTime":3083.0890000000004,"body":"you know, and we still, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3083.0890000000004,"endTime":3089.2090000000003,"body":"know, post BLM have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3083.0890000000004,"endTime":3089.2090000000003,"body":"just vicious forms of violence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3089.239,"endTime":3092.4790000000003,"body":"against, you know, black"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3089.239,"endTime":3092.4790000000003,"body":"Indigenous and People of Color"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.4790000000003,"endTime":3097.039,"body":"in the United States. So, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.4790000000003,"endTime":3097.039,"body":"think that if we, it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3097.039,"endTime":3101.119,"body":"tendency right now, I think, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3097.039,"endTime":3101.119,"body":"kind of circle the wagons and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3101.119,"endTime":3104.2090000000003,"body":"sort of get with your people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3101.119,"endTime":3104.2090000000003,"body":"And I understand that, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3104.2090000000003,"endTime":3107.599,"body":"value that, and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3104.2090000000003,"endTime":3107.599,"body":"important. But I think it's also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3107.599,"endTime":3111.7090000000003,"body":"looking at how all of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3107.599,"endTime":3111.7090000000003,"body":"struggles are connected. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3111.7090000000003,"endTime":3116.569,"body":"trying to be, you know, be of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3111.7090000000003,"endTime":3116.569,"body":"service to the other because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3116.569,"endTime":3119.389,"body":"it's the other relationship that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3116.569,"endTime":3119.389,"body":"we even talked about in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3119.389,"endTime":3123.559,"body":"Barbie movement, it's like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3119.389,"endTime":3123.559,"body":"movie, it's like, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3123.559,"endTime":3128.599,"body":"using the other as an object,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3123.559,"endTime":3128.599,"body":"you know, from Ken's perspective"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3128.6290000000004,"endTime":3134.4790000000003,"body":"as a way of ego formation. Like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3128.6290000000004,"endTime":3134.4790000000003,"body":"he uses Barbie for, right, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3135.349,"endTime":3141.679,"body":"you know, the, the idea of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3135.349,"endTime":3141.679,"body":"increasing our capacity to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3141.7090000000003,"endTime":3146.3590000000004,"body":"empathic to be empathetic toward"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3141.7090000000003,"endTime":3146.3590000000004,"body":"one another is one of the goals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3146.3590000000004,"endTime":3150.4990000000003,"body":"of my book. And it's also seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3146.3590000000004,"endTime":3150.4990000000003,"body":"the ways in which queer and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.4990000000003,"endTime":3155.2090000000003,"body":"trans community just offer so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.4990000000003,"endTime":3155.2090000000003,"body":"much to the mainstream to like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3156.1690000000003,"endTime":3161.239,"body":"you know, as I mentioned before,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3156.1690000000003,"endTime":3161.239,"body":"like, not wanting to see these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3161.239,"endTime":3164.6290000000004,"body":"kinds of masculinities, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3161.239,"endTime":3164.6290000000004,"body":"includes, like I said, a wide"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3164.6290000000004,"endTime":3169.1890000000003,"body":"range of folks, gay men, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3164.6290000000004,"endTime":3169.1890000000003,"body":"just sis fans, I mean, lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3169.3390000000004,"endTime":3173.3590000000004,"body":"different trans women like trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3169.3390000000004,"endTime":3173.3590000000004,"body":"women's masculinities, which I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3173.3590000000004,"endTime":3176.539,"body":"think is I'm hoping someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3173.3590000000004,"endTime":3176.539,"body":"writes a paper on that, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3176.539,"endTime":3179.659,"body":"that would be really great."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3176.539,"endTime":3179.659,"body":"Probably, I will, but like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3179.659,"endTime":3184.3990000000003,"body":"know, like seeing it as relevant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3179.659,"endTime":3184.3990000000003,"body":"to the broader discussion of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3184.429,"endTime":3185.449,"body":"masculinity,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3185.57,"endTime":3189.7400000000002,"body":"you know? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3185.57,"endTime":3189.7400000000002,"body":"yeah. And I love that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3189.9500000000003,"endTime":3193.1000000000004,"body":"I was brought up very much by a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3189.9500000000003,"endTime":3193.1000000000004,"body":"second wave feminist, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3193.1000000000004,"endTime":3198.02,"body":"luckily, I also found black"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3193.1000000000004,"endTime":3198.02,"body":"feminists very early on, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3198.02,"endTime":3201.59,"body":"And so this idea that really,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3198.02,"endTime":3201.59,"body":"our roots of our oppression are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3201.59,"endTime":3205.1000000000004,"body":"connected. You know, we all have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3201.59,"endTime":3205.1000000000004,"body":"skin in the game and we work for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3205.1000000000004,"endTime":3208.19,"body":"each other's liberation, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3205.1000000000004,"endTime":3208.19,"body":"has definitely been one of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3208.19,"endTime":3212.57,"body":"tenants of my life, not just my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3208.19,"endTime":3212.57,"body":"work, right. Our struggles are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3212.57,"endTime":3216.7400000000002,"body":"interwoven, our struggles are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3212.57,"endTime":3216.7400000000002,"body":"connected, we can't. Because we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3216.7400000000002,"endTime":3220.46,"body":"are interdependent. We're a part"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3216.7400000000002,"endTime":3220.46,"body":"of the same ecosystem, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3220.76,"endTime":3223.9700000000003,"body":"And often when I talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3220.76,"endTime":3223.9700000000003,"body":"gender liberation, I often say"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3223.9700000000003,"endTime":3227.3900000000003,"body":"this is not about doing away"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3223.9700000000003,"endTime":3227.3900000000003,"body":"with gender or masculinity or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3227.3900000000003,"endTime":3231.0800000000004,"body":"femininity. This is about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3227.3900000000003,"endTime":3231.0800000000004,"body":"expansiveness. This is about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3231.0800000000004,"endTime":3235.46,"body":"like, actually a more expansive"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3231.0800000000004,"endTime":3235.46,"body":"masculinity, more expansive"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3235.46,"endTime":3240.6800000000003,"body":"femininity, more expansive, non"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3235.46,"endTime":3240.6800000000003,"body":"binary newness or just, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3240.6800000000003,"endTime":3244.2200000000003,"body":"know, agender Ness, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3240.6800000000003,"endTime":3244.2200000000003,"body":"we want to call it, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3244.2200000000003,"endTime":3247.9700000000003,"body":"more expansiveness rather than"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3244.2200000000003,"endTime":3247.9700000000003,"body":"more constriction. And that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3247.9700000000003,"endTime":3251.1200000000003,"body":"one of the things that I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3247.9700000000003,"endTime":3251.1200000000003,"body":"about your book is that there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3251.1200000000003,"endTime":3255.77,"body":"expensive and as there is like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3251.1200000000003,"endTime":3255.77,"body":"breathing towards the future,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3255.77,"endTime":3259.61,"body":"through relationality, through"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3255.77,"endTime":3259.61,"body":"care through empathy, which in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3259.61,"endTime":3264.6800000000003,"body":"way, of course, is the antidote,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3259.61,"endTime":3264.6800000000003,"body":"because colonialism, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3264.6800000000003,"endTime":3268.9700000000003,"body":"misogyny, they're all very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3264.6800000000003,"endTime":3268.9700000000003,"body":"constricting system, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3268.9700000000003,"endTime":3272.8100000000004,"body":"They're all very make things"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3268.9700000000003,"endTime":3272.8100000000004,"body":"smaller, rather than more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3272.8100000000004,"endTime":3276.6800000000003,"body":"spacious, and more expansive and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3272.8100000000004,"endTime":3276.6800000000003,"body":"more free, at least in my mind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3276.6800000000003,"endTime":3277.9700000000003,"body":"had no sorry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3279.59,"endTime":3282.9500000000003,"body":"about that. No, I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3279.59,"endTime":3282.9500000000003,"body":"thinking about the idea of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3283.01,"endTime":3287.6600000000003,"body":"capitalism as a constructor, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3283.01,"endTime":3287.6600000000003,"body":"constructor of our bodies, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3287.6600000000003,"endTime":3291.71,"body":"constructor of our souls a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3287.6600000000003,"endTime":3291.71,"body":"constructor of our time to like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3291.71,"endTime":3294.8,"body":"a lot of the thing I went, one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3291.71,"endTime":3294.8,"body":"thing I think about recently is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3294.8,"endTime":3299.9,"body":"how capitalism structures our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3294.8,"endTime":3299.9,"body":"time, you know, so that we feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3299.9300000000003,"endTime":3304.04,"body":"we're completely out of rhythm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3299.9300000000003,"endTime":3304.04,"body":"with the natural world. Exactly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3304.04,"endTime":3310.3100000000004,"body":"no, we're very fixed in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3304.04,"endTime":3310.3100000000004,"body":"way. Or let's just say that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3310.3100000000004,"endTime":3314.0600000000004,"body":"culture encourages that almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3310.3100000000004,"endTime":3314.0600000000004,"body":"as also as a badge of honor."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3314.09,"endTime":3317.27,"body":"Like, you know, like you were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3314.09,"endTime":3317.27,"body":"saying, people are resisting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3317.27,"endTime":3320.6000000000004,"body":"that in the workplace, but it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3317.27,"endTime":3320.6000000000004,"body":"sort of like well, how much work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3320.6000000000004,"endTime":3324.17,"body":"can you handle then? That's your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3320.6000000000004,"endTime":3324.17,"body":"badge of honor. And I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3324.2000000000003,"endTime":3327.8300000000004,"body":"you know, my partner is not from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3324.2000000000003,"endTime":3327.8300000000004,"body":"the United States and a lot."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3328.4900000000002,"endTime":3329.84,"body":"It's it's extra here."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3330.5,"endTime":3335.2400000000002,"body":"She's really an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3330.5,"endTime":3335.2400000000002,"body":"extra many people I say, Oh, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3335.2400000000002,"endTime":3338.63,"body":"take European amounts of time"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3335.2400000000002,"endTime":3338.63,"body":"off. And I was like I should do."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3338.84,"endTime":3341.9,"body":"And I intend to keep doing that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3338.84,"endTime":3341.9,"body":"now that I have the privilege to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3341.9,"endTime":3346.04,"body":"work for myself and do that,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3341.9,"endTime":3346.04,"body":"because you all why would you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3346.04,"endTime":3351.8900000000003,"body":"want to work 50 weeks a year if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3346.04,"endTime":3351.8900000000003,"body":"you don't have to, right. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3351.8900000000003,"endTime":3355.8500000000004,"body":"mean, obviously, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3351.8900000000003,"endTime":3355.8500000000004,"body":"have to survive under not only"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3355.8500000000004,"endTime":3359.2400000000002,"body":"capitalism, but also like in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3355.8500000000004,"endTime":3359.2400000000002,"body":"country where there is no"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3359.2400000000002,"endTime":3362.57,"body":"universal health care, where"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3359.2400000000002,"endTime":3362.57,"body":"there's, you know, some states"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3362.57,"endTime":3367.04,"body":"don't even have education,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3362.57,"endTime":3367.04,"body":"that's really up to par. Because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3367.04,"endTime":3370.1000000000004,"body":"that's not where the state is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3367.04,"endTime":3370.1000000000004,"body":"investing. So I understand why"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3370.1000000000004,"endTime":3374.03,"body":"people work so hard. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3370.1000000000004,"endTime":3374.03,"body":"always strikes me is that people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3374.0600000000004,"endTime":3377.3,"body":"use it as a badge of honor. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3374.0600000000004,"endTime":3377.3,"body":"I think that that's take us back"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3377.3,"endTime":3381.26,"body":"to the masculinity, right? The"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3377.3,"endTime":3381.26,"body":"match on is that like, but you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3381.26,"endTime":3384.6200000000003,"body":"know, isn't it great that I have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3381.26,"endTime":3384.6200000000003,"body":"the flu and I'm working, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3384.6200000000003,"endTime":3386.8700000000003,"body":"like, No, you're making"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3384.6200000000003,"endTime":3386.8700000000003,"body":"everybody sick? And you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3386.8700000000003,"endTime":3390.77,"body":"shouldn't be arresting? It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3386.8700000000003,"endTime":3390.77,"body":"really not a sign of strength to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3390.77,"endTime":3392.09,"body":"me, but okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3394.01,"endTime":3397.7000000000003,"body":"Well, and that's, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3394.01,"endTime":3397.7000000000003,"body":"know, it's it's such a parody of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3397.7000000000003,"endTime":3401.0600000000004,"body":"itself, in a lot of ways like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3397.7000000000003,"endTime":3401.0600000000004,"body":"that kind of white class"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3401.0600000000004,"endTime":3404.1200000000003,"body":"privilege masculinity, just to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3401.0600000000004,"endTime":3404.1200000000003,"body":"add that in there as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3404.1200000000003,"endTime":3409.4300000000003,"body":"That's important. salutely. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3404.1200000000003,"endTime":3409.4300000000003,"body":"you know, I think that what the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3409.4300000000003,"endTime":3412.73,"body":"Barbie back to the Barbie just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3409.4300000000003,"endTime":3412.73,"body":"really clearly again, but like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3413.1800000000003,"endTime":3417.0800000000004,"body":"I think what Barbie might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3413.1800000000003,"endTime":3417.0800000000004,"body":"encourage people to do is, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3417.0800000000004,"endTime":3420.6800000000003,"body":"know, when they happen to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3417.0800000000004,"endTime":3420.6800000000003,"body":"sitting with a white sis head,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3420.86,"endTime":3425.3,"body":"dude, who's playing the guitar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3420.86,"endTime":3425.3,"body":"at them for four hours. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3425.3,"endTime":3429.38,"body":"they buy, like, look at them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3425.3,"endTime":3429.38,"body":"Look at that situation, say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3429.38,"endTime":3433.13,"body":"wait a minute, this looks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3429.38,"endTime":3433.13,"body":"familiar. Because my students"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3433.13,"endTime":3436.9100000000003,"body":"and I laughed so much again, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3433.13,"endTime":3436.9100000000003,"body":"that scene because it hits home."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3438.0800000000004,"endTime":3440.69,"body":"It's no, I mean, it's home."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3441.05,"endTime":3444.3500000000004,"body":"Absolutely. Those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3441.05,"endTime":3444.3500000000004,"body":"stereotypes do not come from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3444.3500000000004,"endTime":3449.96,"body":"nowhere. I definitely had some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3444.3500000000004,"endTime":3449.96,"body":"very painful flashbacks to my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3449.96,"endTime":3453.8300000000004,"body":"teenage years, you know, during"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3449.96,"endTime":3453.8300000000004,"body":"the movie going, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3453.86,"endTime":3458.8100000000004,"body":"because I think that's maybe my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3453.86,"endTime":3458.8100000000004,"body":"early 20s, where there was still"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3458.8100000000004,"endTime":3462.38,"body":"saying no direction. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3458.8100000000004,"endTime":3462.38,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3462.38,"endTime":3464.9300000000003,"body":"mean, you bring up one,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3462.38,"endTime":3464.9300000000003,"body":"one point that I wanted to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3464.9300000000003,"endTime":3468.59,"body":"back to as being raised by a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3464.9300000000003,"endTime":3468.59,"body":"second wave feminist I think you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3468.59,"endTime":3472.07,"body":"mentioned but like finding your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3468.59,"endTime":3472.07,"body":"way to women of color feminism"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3472.07,"endTime":3475.88,"body":"and black feminist practice. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3472.07,"endTime":3475.88,"body":"like, I think that one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3475.88,"endTime":3479.6600000000003,"body":"things that happened for me,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3475.88,"endTime":3479.6600000000003,"body":"like coming up, really, in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3479.6600000000003,"endTime":3484.8500000000004,"body":"early third wave, was that there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3479.6600000000003,"endTime":3484.8500000000004,"body":"was still this sense that to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3484.8500000000004,"endTime":3488.42,"body":"masculine was bad. Yeah. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3484.8500000000004,"endTime":3488.42,"body":"absolutely. So for me, that led"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3488.42,"endTime":3492.4100000000003,"body":"to a lot of repression, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3488.42,"endTime":3492.4100000000003,"body":"still a lot of confusion. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3492.4100000000003,"endTime":3495.5,"body":"think one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3492.4100000000003,"endTime":3495.5,"body":"wanted to do with this book was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3495.5,"endTime":3498.9500000000003,"body":"to work through like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3495.5,"endTime":3498.9500000000003,"body":"my father was abusive, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3498.9500000000003,"endTime":3503.15,"body":"brother was abusive, like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3498.9500000000003,"endTime":3503.15,"body":"know, I have this abuse history"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3503.1800000000003,"endTime":3507.59,"body":"also. And it just happened on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3503.1800000000003,"endTime":3507.59,"body":"white. And so it's kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3507.59,"endTime":3512.27,"body":"well, what does it mean, to move"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3507.59,"endTime":3512.27,"body":"toward white masculinity? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3512.9900000000002,"endTime":3516.59,"body":"Is there something in here that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3512.9900000000002,"endTime":3516.59,"body":"can be dislodged from that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3516.59,"endTime":3519.29,"body":"meaning, like that set of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3516.59,"endTime":3519.29,"body":"meanings, and I think it's still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3519.29,"endTime":3522.1400000000003,"body":"something that I struggle with,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3519.29,"endTime":3522.1400000000003,"body":"because when I came out as non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3522.1400000000003,"endTime":3526.1600000000003,"body":"binary, a lot of my lesbian"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3522.1400000000003,"endTime":3526.1600000000003,"body":"friends were not so happy with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3526.1600000000003,"endTime":3529.67,"body":"that. And I had to sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3526.1600000000003,"endTime":3529.67,"body":"demonstrate that I wasn't going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3529.67,"endTime":3533.9,"body":"over to the enemy side, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3529.67,"endTime":3533.9,"body":"know. And I think that's where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3533.9,"endTime":3538.07,"body":"we need to separate like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3533.9,"endTime":3538.07,"body":"know, not being dominating in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3538.07,"endTime":3541.73,"body":"that sense by any means, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3538.07,"endTime":3541.73,"body":"still having that playfulness,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3541.88,"endTime":3545.1200000000003,"body":"with all things masculine, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3541.88,"endTime":3545.1200000000003,"body":"I can wear a tie, or I can,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3545.1200000000003,"endTime":3548.75,"body":"like, you know, I can play"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3545.1200000000003,"endTime":3548.75,"body":"around with it. And I think I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3548.75,"endTime":3551.4500000000003,"body":"tried to make that distinction"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3548.75,"endTime":3551.4500000000003,"body":"in the, in the book is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3551.4500000000003,"endTime":3555.4700000000003,"body":"there's a difference between,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3551.4500000000003,"endTime":3555.4700000000003,"body":"like, playing with masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3555.4700000000003,"endTime":3560.36,"body":"and using it, it's creative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3555.4700000000003,"endTime":3560.36,"body":"potential, right, if one wishes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3560.36,"endTime":3564.77,"body":"to do so, but anyone can use it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3560.36,"endTime":3564.77,"body":"Right. But that style doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3564.8,"endTime":3568.13,"body":"equal domination and style."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3564.8,"endTime":3568.13,"body":"Doesn't you know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3568.13,"endTime":3568.67,"body":"saying?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3568.7000000000003,"endTime":3572.15,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3568.7000000000003,"endTime":3572.15,"body":"Because also, when we demonize"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3572.15,"endTime":3575.69,"body":"something right, in a way,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3572.15,"endTime":3575.69,"body":"second wave feminism kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3575.69,"endTime":3579.32,"body":"demonize masculinity in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3575.69,"endTime":3579.32,"body":"ways, like I really struggled"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3579.32,"endTime":3582.5,"body":"with. I didn't understand my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3579.32,"endTime":3582.5,"body":"gender identity for a long time,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3582.5600000000004,"endTime":3585.65,"body":"because I was internalized"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3582.5600000000004,"endTime":3585.65,"body":"misogyny. And so I've really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3585.65,"endTime":3588.8300000000004,"body":"tried to embrace femininity. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3585.65,"endTime":3588.8300000000004,"body":"used to say, that felt like I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3588.8300000000004,"endTime":3593.09,"body":"was in drag, which I was comes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3588.8300000000004,"endTime":3593.09,"body":"out because I didn't know about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3593.09,"endTime":3596.96,"body":"my gender yet. Right? But I was,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3593.09,"endTime":3596.96,"body":"you know, and then you try to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3596.96,"endTime":3599.8700000000003,"body":"embrace femininity, but you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3596.96,"endTime":3599.8700000000003,"body":"can't embrace it too much. Also,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3599.8700000000003,"endTime":3602.9300000000003,"body":"if you're queer, because then"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3599.8700000000003,"endTime":3602.9300000000003,"body":"that gives you a proximity to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3602.9300000000003,"endTime":3607.1000000000004,"body":"masculinity, right? I remember"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3602.9300000000003,"endTime":3607.1000000000004,"body":"even as a bi person when I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3607.1000000000004,"endTime":3610.5800000000004,"body":"still femme presenting, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3607.1000000000004,"endTime":3610.5800000000004,"body":"inherently suspicious, because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3610.5800000000004,"endTime":3613.94,"body":"of the femininity and then that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3610.5800000000004,"endTime":3613.94,"body":"bisexuality that gave me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3613.94,"endTime":3618.8,"body":"proximity, right to sis men, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3613.94,"endTime":3618.8,"body":"it's that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3618.8,"endTime":3622.13,"body":"have very many stories."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3618.8,"endTime":3622.13,"body":"We have very similar stories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3622.13,"endTime":3625.3700000000003,"body":"because I came out. Like I said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3622.13,"endTime":3625.3700000000003,"body":"I came out as lesbian than non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3625.3700000000003,"endTime":3629.78,"body":"binary, but the piece I left out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3625.3700000000003,"endTime":3629.78,"body":"earlier, is that I then came out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3629.78,"endTime":3633.32,"body":"as bi plus or Pam, like either"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3629.78,"endTime":3633.32,"body":"one of those terms really suits"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3633.32,"endTime":3638.09,"body":"me And it was just a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3633.32,"endTime":3638.09,"body":"interesting trajectory because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3638.09,"endTime":3643.34,"body":"was looking for my masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3638.09,"endTime":3643.34,"body":"sort of the whole time and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3643.3700000000003,"endTime":3646.61,"body":"like you said about being in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3643.3700000000003,"endTime":3646.61,"body":"drag, like, you know, when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3646.61,"endTime":3650.0600000000004,"body":"look back at pictures of myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3646.61,"endTime":3650.0600000000004,"body":"from those years, there's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3650.09,"endTime":3656.42,"body":"it does feel very strange, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3650.09,"endTime":3656.42,"body":"know? And then I was always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3656.42,"endTime":3659.3,"body":"trying to reach towards"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3656.42,"endTime":3659.3,"body":"something that wasn't that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3659.3,"endTime":3661.9700000000003,"body":"didn't fit me or I was always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3659.3,"endTime":3661.9700000000003,"body":"like, Okay, this is how you do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3661.9700000000003,"endTime":3666.5,"body":"nails. Okay, what do I do again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3661.9700000000003,"endTime":3666.5,"body":"like, and it's always just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3666.5,"endTime":3672.59,"body":"little off and the prom dress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3666.5,"endTime":3672.59,"body":"was off. And, you know, I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3672.59,"endTime":3677.1800000000003,"body":"didn't, again, generationally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3672.59,"endTime":3677.1800000000003,"body":"speaking. There, there were very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3677.1800000000003,"endTime":3680.9,"body":"limited options like one could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3677.1800000000003,"endTime":3680.9,"body":"be a butch but I was like, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3680.9,"endTime":3686.63,"body":"I don't ride a motorcycle tools."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3687.44,"endTime":3690.7400000000002,"body":"That was good"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3687.44,"endTime":3690.7400000000002,"body":"with tools. That's where and I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3690.7400000000002,"endTime":3697.82,"body":"like, too much of a princess."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3690.7400000000002,"endTime":3697.82,"body":"Too much of a gay masculinity,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3697.8500000000004,"endTime":3700.6400000000003,"body":"to really embrace Britishness."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3697.8500000000004,"endTime":3700.6400000000003,"body":"So it was complicated."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3702.5600000000004,"endTime":3705.8900000000003,"body":"Right? And that's why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3702.5600000000004,"endTime":3705.8900000000003,"body":"like Britishness, I did a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3705.8900000000003,"endTime":3709.4900000000002,"body":"work on Bush, in my early"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3705.8900000000003,"endTime":3709.4900000000002,"body":"academic career, and I was, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3709.4900000000002,"endTime":3712.6400000000003,"body":"know, finding all these ways to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3709.4900000000002,"endTime":3712.6400000000003,"body":"talk about Bush outside of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3712.6400000000003,"endTime":3715.9700000000003,"body":"stereotype. I mean, for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3712.6400000000003,"endTime":3715.9700000000003,"body":"people, that is really an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3715.9700000000003,"endTime":3719.8700000000003,"body":"important part of their identity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3715.9700000000003,"endTime":3719.8700000000003,"body":"and my complete, I honor that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3719.8700000000003,"endTime":3724.3100000000004,"body":"completely. It just never fit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3719.8700000000003,"endTime":3724.3100000000004,"body":"me. And I think that's where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3724.34,"endTime":3728.3300000000004,"body":"finding queer theory and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3724.34,"endTime":3728.3300000000004,"body":"finding, like, you know, Eve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3728.3300000000004,"endTime":3731.48,"body":"Centrix whole idea of cross"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3728.3300000000004,"endTime":3731.48,"body":"identification, like the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3731.48,"endTime":3735.4100000000003,"body":"that, you know, she is like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3731.48,"endTime":3735.4100000000003,"body":"sis white woman identified more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3735.4100000000003,"endTime":3739.61,"body":"with gay masculinity was for me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3735.4100000000003,"endTime":3739.61,"body":"an opening that I so badly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3739.61,"endTime":3744.8900000000003,"body":"needed. And I also identify more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3739.61,"endTime":3744.8900000000003,"body":"with a with a gay queer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3744.8900000000003,"endTime":3748.3100000000004,"body":"masculinity and like, my, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3744.8900000000003,"endTime":3748.3100000000004,"body":"neighbor, who's a gay man, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3748.3100000000004,"endTime":3750.98,"body":"always talk about, like, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3748.3100000000004,"endTime":3750.98,"body":"wants my outfit ideas. And like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3750.98,"endTime":3754.94,"body":"I love it, you know, and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3750.98,"endTime":3754.94,"body":"like, that's such the richness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3754.94,"endTime":3759.77,"body":"and the fluidity of queerness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3754.94,"endTime":3759.77,"body":"that, like, I just thrive on and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3759.77,"endTime":3764.3300000000004,"body":"I want other, I want everyone to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3759.77,"endTime":3764.3300000000004,"body":"have that ability, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3764.3900000000003,"endTime":3768.53,"body":"I want everyone to be able to,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3764.3900000000003,"endTime":3768.53,"body":"to play with these things, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3768.53,"endTime":3773.09,"body":"to not also be in fear. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3768.53,"endTime":3773.09,"body":"have to tell you that when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3773.1200000000003,"endTime":3778.2200000000003,"body":"had, you know, top surgery, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3773.1200000000003,"endTime":3778.2200000000003,"body":"lost some lesbian friendships"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3778.2200000000003,"endTime":3781.67,"body":"over it. And that was really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3778.2200000000003,"endTime":3781.67,"body":"really difficult. Because again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3781.67,"endTime":3784.25,"body":"it was at that high point, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3781.67,"endTime":3784.25,"body":"still in the high point. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3784.25,"endTime":3787.4900000000002,"body":"we just keep going higher,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3784.25,"endTime":3787.4900000000002,"body":"there's no, when we were at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3787.4900000000002,"endTime":3791.15,"body":"new high point for the time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3787.4900000000002,"endTime":3791.15,"body":"period anyway, like, I felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3791.21,"endTime":3794.96,"body":"really abandoned. And I think it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3791.21,"endTime":3794.96,"body":"sort of prevented me from moving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3794.96,"endTime":3799.13,"body":"in that direction for a while."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3794.96,"endTime":3799.13,"body":"Because I was worried in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3799.13,"endTime":3802.8500000000004,"body":"certain way of losing my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3799.13,"endTime":3802.8500000000004,"body":"community of losing, losing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3802.8500000000004,"endTime":3806.0600000000004,"body":"people's love. I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3802.8500000000004,"endTime":3806.0600000000004,"body":"didn't, I lost a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3806.0600000000004,"endTime":3810.3500000000004,"body":"friends. I mean, it wasn't like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3806.0600000000004,"endTime":3810.3500000000004,"body":"a mass. Sort of shunning. But it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3810.4700000000003,"endTime":3814.25,"body":"it I did, again, have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3810.4700000000003,"endTime":3814.25,"body":"demonstrate that I wasn't going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3814.25,"endTime":3818.69,"body":"to be or meet people made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3814.25,"endTime":3818.69,"body":"assumptions. I was going to use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3818.69,"endTime":3821.3300000000004,"body":"he him pronouns, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3818.69,"endTime":3821.3300000000004,"body":"really interesting."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3822.139,"endTime":3826.3390000000004,"body":"Which, even if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3822.139,"endTime":3826.3390000000004,"body":"you chose to, like that wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3826.3390000000004,"endTime":3831.139,"body":"justify losing friendships,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3826.3390000000004,"endTime":3831.139,"body":"potentially, but I totally hear"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3831.139,"endTime":3834.829,"body":"you because it's like when I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3831.139,"endTime":3834.829,"body":"started dating my one of my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3834.829,"endTime":3838.549,"body":"partners of now 20 For years, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3834.829,"endTime":3838.549,"body":"lost most of my lesbian friends"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3838.549,"endTime":3842.539,"body":"because they were see, right"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3838.549,"endTime":3842.539,"body":"always aspect we knew it like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3842.539,"endTime":3846.289,"body":"right, and it's like, most of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3842.539,"endTime":3846.289,"body":"them, it was just like, peace"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3846.289,"endTime":3851.719,"body":"out, right? Because I most it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3846.289,"endTime":3851.719,"body":"was still pretty much lesbian"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3851.719,"endTime":3855.949,"body":"separatist world in some ways,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3851.719,"endTime":3855.949,"body":"right? And so that's that those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3855.949,"endTime":3859.909,"body":"are the fractures in the cracks."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3855.949,"endTime":3859.909,"body":"And I've met so many. I've also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3859.909,"endTime":3863.719,"body":"met so many folks who were like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3859.909,"endTime":3863.719,"body":"lesbian identified, and then"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3863.719,"endTime":3866.179,"body":"fell in love with a man and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3863.719,"endTime":3866.179,"body":"married and totally moved out of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3866.179,"endTime":3869.569,"body":"queer community. You know, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3866.179,"endTime":3869.569,"body":"very stubborn and hang in there."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3869.7490000000003,"endTime":3873.259,"body":"And I was lucky because I also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3869.7490000000003,"endTime":3873.259,"body":"had a lot of queer men, male"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3873.259,"endTime":3875.989,"body":"friends, which was great,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3873.259,"endTime":3875.989,"body":"because most of them were like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3876.0190000000002,"endTime":3879.559,"body":"Oh, when I transitioned or like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3876.0190000000002,"endTime":3879.559,"body":"Finally, this makes sense."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3880.759,"endTime":3886.069,"body":"Right? It's like, oh, you're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3880.759,"endTime":3886.069,"body":"kind of a queer dude. Like, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3886.069,"endTime":3886.969,"body":"makes more sense. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3886.9700000000003,"endTime":3892.1000000000004,"body":"my God. Oh, totally."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3886.9700000000003,"endTime":3892.1000000000004,"body":"Yeah, no, and there's no just to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3892.1000000000004,"endTime":3895.3100000000004,"body":"backtrack on that. No, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3892.1000000000004,"endTime":3895.3100000000004,"body":"would be nothing wrong if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3895.3100000000004,"endTime":3900.5600000000004,"body":"wanted to take up he him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3895.3100000000004,"endTime":3900.5600000000004,"body":"pronouns whatsoever. It's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3900.5600000000004,"endTime":3903.7400000000002,"body":"more that when I said, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3900.5600000000004,"endTime":3903.7400000000002,"body":"to get top surgery, people would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3903.7400000000002,"endTime":3906.4700000000003,"body":"confront me and say, Are you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3903.7400000000002,"endTime":3906.4700000000003,"body":"going by he him pronouns now?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3906.4700000000003,"endTime":3910.73,"body":"And it was almost like a test."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3906.4700000000003,"endTime":3910.73,"body":"Yes. Like, are you gonna go by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3910.73,"endTime":3915.23,"body":"him now? Because now we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3910.73,"endTime":3915.23,"body":"know where you stand. It's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3915.23,"endTime":3918.38,"body":"antiquated. These battles."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3915.23,"endTime":3918.38,"body":"They're very much happening in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3918.38,"endTime":3925.25,"body":"real time. For a lot of us, and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3918.38,"endTime":3925.25,"body":"you know, I think that's where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3925.25,"endTime":3929.6000000000004,"body":"my concept to be honest with you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3925.25,"endTime":3929.6000000000004,"body":"of unruly alliances came from?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3929.9900000000002,"endTime":3935.4500000000003,"body":"Yeah. Because I had to reinvent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3929.9900000000002,"endTime":3935.4500000000003,"body":"reinvent Did myself many times"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3935.4500000000003,"endTime":3940.01,"body":"and it's all come with its own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3935.4500000000003,"endTime":3940.01,"body":"community issues, you know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3940.01,"endTime":3943.88,"body":"I mean? Like leaving behind the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3940.01,"endTime":3943.88,"body":"straight world was a harder for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3943.88,"endTime":3947.63,"body":"me because it led to family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3943.88,"endTime":3947.63,"body":"courts lead to discrimination,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3947.6600000000003,"endTime":3950.3900000000003,"body":"it led to all sorts of things,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3947.6600000000003,"endTime":3950.3900000000003,"body":"right that I don't want to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3950.3900000000003,"endTime":3953.78,"body":"into too much detail about, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3950.3900000000003,"endTime":3953.78,"body":"it led, it led to horrible"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3953.78,"endTime":3958.13,"body":"places in that way. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3953.78,"endTime":3958.13,"body":"joining a lesbian community, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3958.13,"endTime":3962.9300000000003,"body":"know, it's still, I still felt a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3958.13,"endTime":3962.9300000000003,"body":"little bit like, well, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3962.9300000000003,"endTime":3968.3,"body":"know if this feels like me, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3962.9300000000003,"endTime":3968.3,"body":"know. And then like coming out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3968.3,"endTime":3971.96,"body":"as non binary, having some trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3968.3,"endTime":3971.96,"body":"friends also say like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3971.96,"endTime":3977.78,"body":"get non binary, like, it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3971.96,"endTime":3977.78,"body":"I wish that we could maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3978.2000000000003,"endTime":3983.84,"body":"soften all those edges, and just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3978.2000000000003,"endTime":3983.84,"body":"allow everyone to, to be who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3983.84,"endTime":3987.11,"body":"they are. And I know that maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3983.84,"endTime":3987.11,"body":"sounds like a naive thing to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3987.11,"endTime":3991.3100000000004,"body":"say, but I just really wish that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3987.11,"endTime":3991.3100000000004,"body":"there weren't these sort of hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3991.3100000000004,"endTime":3995.9300000000003,"body":"lines sometimes. And that's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3991.3100000000004,"endTime":3995.9300000000003,"body":"at all to generalize all queer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3995.9300000000003,"endTime":3999.32,"body":"community or all queer trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3995.9300000000003,"endTime":3999.32,"body":"community, it's just more to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3999.32,"endTime":4003.61,"body":"say, like, there are these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3999.32,"endTime":4003.61,"body":"moments, right. And a lot of it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4003.9100000000003,"endTime":4008.26,"body":"revolves around masculinity. Or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4003.9100000000003,"endTime":4008.26,"body":"at least for me, it has, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4008.26,"endTime":4009.55,"body":"know, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4010.21,"endTime":4013.1200000000003,"body":"I love this idea"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4010.21,"endTime":4013.1200000000003,"body":"of softening the edges, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4013.1200000000003,"endTime":4016.1800000000003,"body":"Because I often think about,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4013.1200000000003,"endTime":4016.1800000000003,"body":"well, where is that hard line?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4016.1800000000003,"endTime":4019.4500000000003,"body":"Right? And as somebody who's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4016.1800000000003,"endTime":4019.4500000000003,"body":"been a hardcore abolitionist of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4019.4500000000003,"endTime":4023.44,"body":"like, political borders, as well"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4019.4500000000003,"endTime":4023.44,"body":"as the police, right? Where are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4023.44,"endTime":4027.7000000000003,"body":"those hard those hard lines to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4023.44,"endTime":4027.7000000000003,"body":"me feel so colonial and non"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4027.7000000000003,"endTime":4032.32,"body":"relational? In every way, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4027.7000000000003,"endTime":4032.32,"body":"Because where does trans and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4032.32,"endTime":4035.6200000000003,"body":"insists begin? Where does non"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4032.32,"endTime":4035.6200000000003,"body":"binary and but you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4035.6200000000003,"endTime":4039.28,"body":"almost like life isn't binary,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4035.6200000000003,"endTime":4039.28,"body":"which obviously, I love that."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4039.73,"endTime":4043.57,"body":"Yeah, I love that book. I'm one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4039.73,"endTime":4043.57,"body":"of the co authors."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4043.75,"endTime":4046.9900000000002,"body":"No, I know, I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4043.75,"endTime":4046.9900000000002,"body":"that. I love that. But I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4046.9900000000002,"endTime":4048.9700000000003,"body":"have that book. Also."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4050.26,"endTime":4052.7200000000003,"body":"I didn't know."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4050.26,"endTime":4052.7200000000003,"body":"Yeah, it's like, I'm with you."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4052.7200000000003,"endTime":4055.54,"body":"Right? For me, I feel like my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4052.7200000000003,"endTime":4055.54,"body":"life work is like, how do we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4055.54,"endTime":4059.98,"body":"soften and blur those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4055.54,"endTime":4059.98,"body":"boundaries, so that all of us"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4059.98,"endTime":4063.9100000000003,"body":"can just breathe a little fear"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4059.98,"endTime":4063.9100000000003,"body":"be in deeper relationship to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4063.9100000000003,"endTime":4067.6600000000003,"body":"each other? Like, because we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4063.9100000000003,"endTime":4067.6600000000003,"body":"otherwise we can't write if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4067.6600000000003,"endTime":4070.4500000000003,"body":"there are those hard lines and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4067.6600000000003,"endTime":4070.4500000000003,"body":"hard walls between us?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4070.4500000000003,"endTime":4071.29,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4071.7690000000002,"endTime":4074.7090000000003,"body":"Yeah. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4071.7690000000002,"endTime":4074.7090000000003,"body":"unruly Alliance concept like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4074.7090000000003,"endTime":4078.279,"body":"idea for me, which I think you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4074.7090000000003,"endTime":4078.279,"body":"get the spirit of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4078.969,"endTime":4082.6890000000003,"body":"it's like, in my previous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4078.969,"endTime":4082.6890000000003,"body":"university, like, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4082.719,"endTime":4087.5190000000002,"body":"best friend was, you know, much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4082.719,"endTime":4087.5190000000002,"body":"older than me, like she was, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4087.5190000000002,"endTime":4090.3390000000004,"body":"know, about, we retired, she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4087.5190000000002,"endTime":4090.3390000000004,"body":"retired, and I left that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4090.3390000000004,"endTime":4093.9390000000003,"body":"university around the same time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4090.3390000000004,"endTime":4093.9390000000003,"body":"but she was such an ally, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4093.9390000000003,"endTime":4098.049,"body":"me, and like, you know, totally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4093.9390000000003,"endTime":4098.049,"body":"of different generations also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4098.049,"endTime":4103.239,"body":"identified as by plus, but like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4098.049,"endTime":4103.239,"body":"it was a very unlikely pairing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4103.599,"endTime":4108.399,"body":"you know, that we would find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4103.599,"endTime":4108.399,"body":"such such solace in each other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4108.429,"endTime":4111.729,"body":"where I didn't always find it in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4108.429,"endTime":4111.729,"body":"other spaces. And so I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4111.729,"endTime":4116.919,"body":"for me, I've had very unlikely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4111.729,"endTime":4116.919,"body":"friendships, alliances with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4116.919,"endTime":4121.209,"body":"people that have changed me. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4116.919,"endTime":4121.209,"body":"I think if I weren't open to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4121.209,"endTime":4124.209,"body":"that, and I only wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4121.209,"endTime":4124.209,"body":"around people who looked like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4124.209,"endTime":4129.819,"body":"me, I would have really lost out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4124.209,"endTime":4129.819,"body":"on so much like I learned about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4129.819,"endTime":4133.479,"body":"masculinity, even through my 90"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4129.819,"endTime":4133.479,"body":"year old stepfather who just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4133.509,"endTime":4137.499,"body":"passed away recently, actually."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4133.509,"endTime":4137.499,"body":"And so he taught me a lot and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4137.499,"endTime":4141.399,"body":"sort of taught me that, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4137.499,"endTime":4141.399,"body":"know, there is such a thing as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4141.399,"endTime":4146.439,"body":"non abusive father to like, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4141.399,"endTime":4146.439,"body":"is possible to change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4146.439,"endTime":4151.689,"body":"masculinity. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4146.439,"endTime":4151.689,"body":"what you said earlier to about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4151.719,"endTime":4155.349,"body":"the fact that it doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4151.719,"endTime":4155.349,"body":"It's an old feminist adage, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4155.349,"endTime":4159.099,"body":"patriarchy doesn't work for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4155.349,"endTime":4159.099,"body":"anyone, right? It doesn't work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4159.099,"endTime":4164.679,"body":"for white sis, men, either. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4159.099,"endTime":4164.679,"body":"some have realized that, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4164.679,"endTime":4169.4490000000005,"body":"think my class did that for some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4164.679,"endTime":4169.4490000000005,"body":"of these of these men as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4170.079000000001,"endTime":4173.229,"body":"And they've really started to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4170.079000000001,"endTime":4173.229,"body":"question you know, not their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4173.229,"endTime":4176.769,"body":"style, none of that, but like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4173.229,"endTime":4176.769,"body":"starting to question how they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4176.769,"endTime":4182.109,"body":"relate to others. Because that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4176.769,"endTime":4182.109,"body":"is, that is the point. That is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4182.109,"endTime":4186.759,"body":"really it, like, how do I reach"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4182.109,"endTime":4186.759,"body":"the other? And how do I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4186.759,"endTime":4189.879,"body":"empathize with another's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4186.759,"endTime":4189.879,"body":"experience? Because so much of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4189.879,"endTime":4194.469,"body":"what our society teaches us is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4189.879,"endTime":4194.469,"body":"Who am I as an individual, here"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4194.469,"endTime":4198.6990000000005,"body":"I am on my phone, how many likes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4194.469,"endTime":4198.6990000000005,"body":"do I have? Like, yes, how am I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4198.6990000000005,"endTime":4203.289,"body":"being perceived, and that social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4198.6990000000005,"endTime":4203.289,"body":"media is a double edged sword"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4203.289,"endTime":4206.679,"body":"there because I think social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4203.289,"endTime":4206.679,"body":"media has done incredible things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4206.679,"endTime":4210.849,"body":"for queer and trans community,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4206.679,"endTime":4210.849,"body":"incredible things for folks to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4210.849,"endTime":4214.839,"body":"build solidarity. But of course,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4210.849,"endTime":4214.839,"body":"also there's the other side of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4214.839,"endTime":4218.919,"body":"it, which increases our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4214.839,"endTime":4218.919,"body":"narcissistic impulses for all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4218.919,"endTime":4225.6990000000005,"body":"us. And that needs to be sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4218.919,"endTime":4225.6990000000005,"body":"dis identified with a resisted,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4225.6990000000005,"endTime":4228.369000000001,"body":"you know, where we need to look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4225.6990000000005,"endTime":4228.369000000001,"body":"at that critically as well and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4228.369000000001,"endTime":4232.929,"body":"think like, you know, it's about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4228.369000000001,"endTime":4232.929,"body":"how am I using that tool, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4232.929,"endTime":4235.749,"body":"like shunning it? are getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4232.929,"endTime":4235.749,"body":"rid of our phones because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4235.749,"endTime":4241.899,"body":"that's, that wouldn't be useful."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4235.749,"endTime":4241.899,"body":"That's my phone. I really love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4241.899,"endTime":4244.269,"body":"my phone. So it's like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4241.899,"endTime":4244.269,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4244.54,"endTime":4246.01,"body":"I would mess up"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4244.54,"endTime":4246.01,"body":"my phone. And I don't know that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4246.01,"endTime":4250.66,"body":"I would miss emails, sometimes."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4246.01,"endTime":4250.66,"body":"I do miss the days before"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4250.6900000000005,"endTime":4253.9000000000005,"body":"emails, but I have to say I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4250.6900000000005,"endTime":4253.9000000000005,"body":"social media, there's so much"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4253.9000000000005,"endTime":4257.83,"body":"easier to find community, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4253.9000000000005,"endTime":4257.83,"body":"It's like, you know, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4257.83,"endTime":4261.91,"body":"know any trans people that, that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4257.83,"endTime":4261.91,"body":"were out growing up, right? I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4261.91,"endTime":4265.63,"body":"sure there were some around me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4261.91,"endTime":4265.63,"body":"in Italy in the 70s. But I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4265.63,"endTime":4269.83,"body":"didn't know them. And so like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4265.63,"endTime":4269.83,"body":"social media is really giving,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4270.43,"endTime":4273.88,"body":"like such a playground to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4270.43,"endTime":4273.88,"body":"younger generations to find"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4273.88,"endTime":4277.3,"body":"themselves to see themselves"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4273.88,"endTime":4277.3,"body":"even if they're in an isolated"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4277.3,"endTime":4281.74,"body":"rural area, that they don't have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4277.3,"endTime":4281.74,"body":"to feel like I'm the only kid"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4281.74,"endTime":4285.34,"body":"who feels like this in the whole"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4281.74,"endTime":4285.34,"body":"world, right? Because I can find"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4285.34,"endTime":4288.97,"body":"somebody else who resonates with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4285.34,"endTime":4288.97,"body":"that experience. And, and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4288.97,"endTime":4293.110000000001,"body":"think that's beautiful. You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4288.97,"endTime":4293.110000000001,"body":"know, like, I think that much as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4293.110000000001,"endTime":4296.71,"body":"there is like this shadow side"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4293.110000000001,"endTime":4296.71,"body":"of social media, I think there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4296.71,"endTime":4299.59,"body":"still so much goodness in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4296.71,"endTime":4299.59,"body":"internet in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4299.59,"endTime":4300.7,"body":"relationality. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4301.03,"endTime":4304.1500000000005,"body":"but definitely like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4301.03,"endTime":4304.1500000000005,"body":"and I think like the ways that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4304.1500000000005,"endTime":4307.12,"body":"my students learn on social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4304.1500000000005,"endTime":4307.12,"body":"media and then come into my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4307.12,"endTime":4310.45,"body":"classes, and they have such"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4307.12,"endTime":4310.45,"body":"they, they identify themselves"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4310.45,"endTime":4315.76,"body":"with such precision, in a way I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4310.45,"endTime":4315.76,"body":"really envy because I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4315.76,"endTime":4319.12,"body":"about like when I was around in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4315.76,"endTime":4319.12,"body":"the sixth grade when it was time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4319.12,"endTime":4325.51,"body":"to take off my like, Tomboy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4319.12,"endTime":4325.51,"body":"clothes. You know, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4325.51,"endTime":4331.51,"body":"again, it was still a really gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4325.51,"endTime":4331.51,"body":"tomboy. Barbie was still there."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4333.070000000001,"endTime":4337.63,"body":"I love that. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4333.070000000001,"endTime":4337.63,"body":"think that's a beautiful place"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4337.63,"endTime":4342.610000000001,"body":"to end on the gay, Tomboy this,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4337.63,"endTime":4342.610000000001,"body":"I feel like I could have like 20"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4342.610000000001,"endTime":4346.39,"body":"different conversations with you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4342.610000000001,"endTime":4346.39,"body":"about all the things that we've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4346.39,"endTime":4350.92,"body":"been talking about. But I do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4346.39,"endTime":4350.92,"body":"want I want to be respectful of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4350.92,"endTime":4354.49,"body":"your time. And maybe we'll just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4350.92,"endTime":4354.49,"body":"have to have at least another"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4354.49,"endTime":4359.74,"body":"episode on reality. And gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4354.49,"endTime":4359.74,"body":"Oh, yeah. Let's get on the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4359.74,"endTime":4365.41,"body":"calendar for 2024. For it than"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4359.74,"endTime":4365.41,"body":"anything else that you were"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4365.41,"endTime":4369.25,"body":"hoping to touch on or talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4365.41,"endTime":4369.25,"body":"that I haven't really asked you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4369.25,"endTime":4372.43,"body":"about, always ask my guests at"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4369.25,"endTime":4372.43,"body":"the end, like, is there anything"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4372.67,"endTime":4376.78,"body":"that we have not talked about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4372.67,"endTime":4376.78,"body":"that you are hoping to convey or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4376.78,"endTime":4378.64,"body":"communicate to the listeners,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4379.1500000000005,"endTime":4384.13,"body":"I just really want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4379.1500000000005,"endTime":4384.13,"body":"reiterate a message of hope. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4384.13,"endTime":4387.67,"body":"know, and really just leave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4384.13,"endTime":4387.67,"body":"space for how many people you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4387.67,"endTime":4390.49,"body":"know, we touched on grief, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4387.67,"endTime":4390.49,"body":"touched on grieving, we touched"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4390.49,"endTime":4395.2,"body":"on trauma, and just how many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4390.49,"endTime":4395.2,"body":"people are really in a state of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4395.2,"endTime":4398.95,"body":"suffering right now in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4395.2,"endTime":4398.95,"body":"United States, because that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4398.95,"endTime":4402.7300000000005,"body":"where we are right now. And just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4398.95,"endTime":4402.7300000000005,"body":"feeling isolated, like just to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4402.7300000000005,"endTime":4406.09,"body":"know that they're not alone. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4402.7300000000005,"endTime":4406.09,"body":"that, you know, there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4406.09,"endTime":4408.610000000001,"body":"community out there and there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4406.09,"endTime":4408.610000000001,"body":"are different ways of being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4408.610000000001,"endTime":4413.02,"body":"masculine. And that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4408.610000000001,"endTime":4413.02,"body":"that is that is available to us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4413.02,"endTime":4416.89,"body":"now. And we can seize on that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4413.02,"endTime":4416.89,"body":"And we can, you know, live in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4416.89,"endTime":4420.7,"body":"the beautiful vibrancy of all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4416.89,"endTime":4420.7,"body":"the different masculinities that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4420.85,"endTime":4422.29,"body":"are possible. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4422.95,"endTime":4426.46,"body":"I love that and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4422.95,"endTime":4426.46,"body":"that now, all I have in my mind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4426.46,"endTime":4430.18,"body":"is that man, I am seeing an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4426.46,"endTime":4430.18,"body":"Barbie with a beautiful vibrant"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4430.33,"endTime":4435.64,"body":"masculinity is what a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4430.33,"endTime":4435.64,"body":"place to end on. And you also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4435.64,"endTime":4439.6900000000005,"body":"have a book out. So just a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4435.64,"endTime":4439.6900000000005,"body":"reminder for our listeners that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4439.6900000000005,"endTime":4444.49,"body":"your book masculinity in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4439.6900000000005,"endTime":4444.49,"body":"transition is out now. And they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4444.49,"endTime":4447.4000000000005,"body":"can order it from wherever they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4444.49,"endTime":4447.4000000000005,"body":"get books and other an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4447.4000000000005,"endTime":4452.59,"body":"electronic book for more, or an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4447.4000000000005,"endTime":4452.59,"body":"actual hard copy of the book."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4452.59,"endTime":4455.95,"body":"And it has a beautiful cover. If"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4452.59,"endTime":4455.95,"body":"you want to flash it. I'll show"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4455.95,"endTime":4459.34,"body":"it again. On YouTube. Again, it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4455.95,"endTime":4459.34,"body":"didn't cover."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4459.7,"endTime":4461.77,"body":"I think they did a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4459.7,"endTime":4461.77,"body":"wonderful job."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4462.16,"endTime":4464.02,"body":"I really did."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4462.16,"endTime":4464.02,"body":"There's some particles, there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4464.02,"endTime":4468.1900000000005,"body":"some blues, there's some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4464.02,"endTime":4468.1900000000005,"body":"oranges, classical imageries"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4468.1900000000005,"endTime":4474.46,"body":"with some social media emerge"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4468.1900000000005,"endTime":4474.46,"body":"jury, I love it. So please, get"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4474.49,"endTime":4478.66,"body":"Allison's book. It's really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4474.49,"endTime":4478.66,"body":"brilliant. And it's a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4478.66,"endTime":4482.02,"body":"read. And I'm looking forward as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4478.66,"endTime":4482.02,"body":"well to your chapter on book"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4482.02,"endTime":4486.85,"body":"banning, as well. And if people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4482.02,"endTime":4486.85,"body":"wanted to find out more about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4486.85,"endTime":4489.4000000000005,"body":"your work, where should they go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4486.85,"endTime":4489.4000000000005,"body":"on the internet?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4489.85,"endTime":4496.66,"body":"Okay, awesome. Hammer k"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4489.85,"endTime":4496.66,"body":"sorry, K Allison. Hammer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4496.66,"endTime":4501.070000000001,"body":"KLLISON hammer.com is my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4496.66,"endTime":4501.070000000001,"body":"website. And I post new stuff on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4501.070000000001,"endTime":4505.6900000000005,"body":"there new publications. There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4501.070000000001,"endTime":4505.6900000000005,"body":"also more information about me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4505.6900000000005,"endTime":4508.78,"body":"as an artist, scholar of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4505.6900000000005,"endTime":4508.78,"body":"cultural critic, I do lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4508.78,"endTime":4511.75,"body":"other work and literary journals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4508.78,"endTime":4511.75,"body":"and literary magazines and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4511.75,"endTime":4515.05,"body":"things like that. So I post new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4511.75,"endTime":4515.05,"body":"things on there and you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4515.05,"endTime":4516.85,"body":"learn a little bit more about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4515.05,"endTime":4516.85,"body":"me. They're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4518.110000000001,"endTime":4521.6500000000005,"body":"wonderful. What"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4518.110000000001,"endTime":4521.6500000000005,"body":"thank you so much for this time"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4521.68,"endTime":4525.04,"body":"today. I really appreciated our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4521.68,"endTime":4525.04,"body":"conversation, and I'm really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4525.04,"endTime":4526.63,"body":"looking forward to our next one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4525.04,"endTime":4526.63,"body":"already."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4527.56,"endTime":4531.01,"body":"It's wonderful to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4527.56,"endTime":4531.01,"body":"to know you, Alex, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4531.01,"endTime":4532.0,"body":"much for having me."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4532.3,"endTime":4535.66,"body":"Likewise, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4532.3,"endTime":4535.66,"body":"Gender stories listeners. As"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4535.66,"endTime":4540.04,"body":"always, thank you for supporting"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4535.66,"endTime":4540.04,"body":"the show for listening, done"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4540.04,"endTime":4543.88,"body":"acetate to reach out and let me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4540.04,"endTime":4543.88,"body":"know how you feel the season is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4543.88,"endTime":4547.6,"body":"going. I know I had a little bit"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4543.88,"endTime":4547.6,"body":"of a pause in 2021. But it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4547.6,"endTime":4551.6500000000005,"body":"wonderful to be back and to see"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4547.6,"endTime":4551.6500000000005,"body":"that you're all still listening."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4551.860000000001,"endTime":4556.4800000000005,"body":"And so let me know what you'd"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4551.860000000001,"endTime":4556.4800000000005,"body":"like to hear in 2024 as well for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4556.4800000000005,"endTime":4560.320000000001,"body":"next season. And until next"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4556.4800000000005,"endTime":4560.320000000001,"body":"time, take care of yourself and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4560.320000000001,"endTime":4563.29,"body":"embrace your beautiful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4560.320000000001,"endTime":4563.29,"body":"masculinity, whatever that means"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4563.29,"endTime":4563.83,"body":"to you."}]}