{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":34.73,"endTime":36.8,"body":"Hello and welcome"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":34.73,"endTime":36.8,"body":"to another episode of gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":36.8,"endTime":40.489999999999995,"body":"stories. As always, I'm elated"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":36.8,"endTime":40.489999999999995,"body":"to be here with another fabulous"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":40.489999999999995,"endTime":44.269999999999996,"body":"guest. And today I'm here with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":40.489999999999995,"endTime":44.269999999999996,"body":"Miah Jeffra is author of The"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":44.269999999999996,"endTime":46.06999999999999,"body":"Fabulous Ekphrastic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":44.269999999999996,"endTime":46.06999999999999,"body":"Fantastic! (Sibling Rivalry"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":46.309999999999995,"endTime":48.05,"body":"2020), The Violence"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":46.309999999999995,"endTime":48.05,"body":"Almanac (Black Lawrence 2021),"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":48.31999999999999,"endTime":50.959999999999994,"body":"the chapbook The First Church of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":48.31999999999999,"endTime":50.959999999999994,"body":"What’s Happening (Nomadic 2017),"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":51.23,"endTime":54.349999999999994,"body":"and co-editor, with Arisa White"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":51.23,"endTime":54.349999999999994,"body":"and Monique Mero, of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":54.379999999999995,"endTime":57.47,"body":"anthology Home is Where You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":54.379999999999995,"endTime":57.47,"body":"Queer Your Heart (Foglifter"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":57.65,"endTime":61.37,"body":"2021). Awards include the New"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":57.65,"endTime":61.37,"body":"Millennium Prize, the Sidney"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":61.37,"endTime":64.4,"body":"Lanier Fiction Prize, The"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":61.37,"endTime":64.4,"body":"Atticus Review Creative"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":64.4,"endTime":68.96,"body":"Nonfiction Prize, the Alice"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":64.4,"endTime":68.96,"body":"Judson Hayes Fellowship, Lambda"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":68.96,"endTime":73.03999999999999,"body":"Literary Fellowship, and 2019"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":68.96,"endTime":73.03999999999999,"body":"finalist for the Lambda Literary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":73.07,"endTime":81.16999999999999,"body":"Award for Outstanding Anthology."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":73.07,"endTime":81.16999999999999,"body":"Most recent work can be seen"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":81.16999999999999,"endTime":100.22,"body":"in StoryQuarterly, Prairie"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":81.16999999999999,"endTime":100.22,"body":"Schooner, The North American"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":100.22,"endTime":102.71,"body":"Review, The Pinch, The"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":100.22,"endTime":102.71,"body":"Greensboro Review,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":104.27,"endTime":107.48,"body":"DIAGRAM, jubilat and Barrelhouse."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":104.27,"endTime":107.48,"body":"Miah is a founding editor of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":107.48,"endTime":110.03,"body":"Whiting Award-winning queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":107.48,"endTime":110.03,"body":"literary collaborative,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":110.06,"endTime":114.02,"body":"Foglifter Press, and teaches"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":110.06,"endTime":114.02,"body":"writing and antiracist studies"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":114.08,"endTime":117.08,"body":"at Santa Clara University. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":114.08,"endTime":117.08,"body":"welcome. And thank you for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":117.08,"endTime":119.92999999999999,"body":"making time for gender source"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":117.08,"endTime":119.92999999999999,"body":"today. I really appreciate you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":119.92999999999999,"endTime":120.59,"body":"being here."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":121.219,"endTime":122.449,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":121.219,"endTime":122.449,"body":"inviting me."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":122.96,"endTime":126.53,"body":"Yeah, so let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":122.96,"endTime":126.53,"body":"get right into it. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":126.53,"endTime":130.31,"body":"want to give reader spoilers of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":126.53,"endTime":130.31,"body":"course of your latest book"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":130.31,"endTime":133.57999999999998,"body":"American gospel. And I've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":130.31,"endTime":133.57999999999998,"body":"already shown that, like I said,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":133.57999999999998,"endTime":136.61,"body":"The Haunting cover, I think, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":133.57999999999998,"endTime":136.61,"body":"there are lots of really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":136.61,"endTime":142.61,"body":"wonderful themes, I think, in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":136.61,"endTime":142.61,"body":"your book around home grief"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.61,"endTime":148.85,"body":"transformation plays. And so I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":142.61,"endTime":148.85,"body":"guess I'm wondering, what do you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":148.85,"endTime":153.35,"body":"hope the readers will get from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":148.85,"endTime":153.35,"body":"your latest book? Like, what's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":153.35,"endTime":157.04,"body":"the feeling or message that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":153.35,"endTime":157.04,"body":"you're hoping to communicate to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":157.04,"endTime":158.48000000000002,"body":"readers in your latest book?"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":159.35,"endTime":165.86,"body":"Well, I certainly I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":159.35,"endTime":165.86,"body":"encoded some messages that I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":165.86,"endTime":170.75,"body":"think I was discovering, as I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":165.86,"endTime":170.75,"body":"wrote the book. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":170.99,"endTime":176.20999999999998,"body":"definitely have certain feelings"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":170.99,"endTime":176.20999999999998,"body":"about some of the issues in the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":176.20999999999998,"endTime":184.73000000000002,"body":"novel, particularly the way that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":176.20999999999998,"endTime":184.73000000000002,"body":"real estate is, is managed in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":184.73000000000002,"endTime":192.41000000000003,"body":"America, how it perpetuates"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":184.73000000000002,"endTime":192.41000000000003,"body":"class disparity, how we relegate"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":192.74,"endTime":199.91000000000003,"body":"certain spaces of poverty, to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":192.74,"endTime":199.91000000000003,"body":"coincide with spaces of violence"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":199.91000000000003,"endTime":205.04000000000002,"body":"and, and depravity, despite the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":199.91000000000003,"endTime":205.04000000000002,"body":"fact that the people who live"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":205.04000000000002,"endTime":210.64999999999998,"body":"there, you know, are 100% flesh"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":205.04000000000002,"endTime":210.64999999999998,"body":"and blood with hopes and dreams"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":210.64999999999998,"endTime":216.52999999999997,"body":"and flaws and virtues like"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":210.64999999999998,"endTime":216.52999999999997,"body":"everyone else. But we, we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":216.52999999999997,"endTime":222.35000000000002,"body":"discard them. Because we have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":216.52999999999997,"endTime":222.35000000000002,"body":"almost the almost this kind of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":222.35000000000002,"endTime":227.45,"body":"moral relationship to wealth."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":222.35000000000002,"endTime":227.45,"body":"And so that certainly was"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":227.45,"endTime":230.54000000000002,"body":"encoded, whether whether the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":227.45,"endTime":230.54000000000002,"body":"readers get that or not, of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":230.54000000000002,"endTime":237.56,"body":"course, is up to them. But it's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":230.54000000000002,"endTime":237.56,"body":"also I hope that readers get"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":238.25,"endTime":247.07,"body":"that there is redemption. And in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":238.25,"endTime":247.07,"body":"the not only the challenges of,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":249.2,"endTime":255.05,"body":"of being a woman being a queer"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":249.2,"endTime":255.05,"body":"teenager, but there's also"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":255.05,"endTime":261.29,"body":"redemptions. And being someone"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":255.05,"endTime":261.29,"body":"who had no interest in social"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":261.29,"endTime":265.79,"body":"justice, really, and then it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":261.29,"endTime":265.79,"body":"ignites. Because, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":265.79,"endTime":271.34,"body":"are, they're faced with it. So"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":265.79,"endTime":271.34,"body":"me maybe ultimately, the message"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":271.34,"endTime":275.93,"body":"I would like readers to get is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":271.34,"endTime":275.93,"body":"that we all are capable of awful"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":275.96,"endTime":280.55,"body":"and wonderful things. I think"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":275.96,"endTime":280.55,"body":"maybe, ultimately, at the end of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":280.55,"endTime":284.66,"body":"the day, that and urban renewal"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":280.55,"endTime":284.66,"body":"is a bad idea."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":287.18,"endTime":289.34,"body":"I love all of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":287.18,"endTime":289.34,"body":"that. I was like, Oh, my brain"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":289.34,"endTime":292.1,"body":"is going into three different"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":289.34,"endTime":292.1,"body":"directions. I kind of want to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":292.1,"endTime":296.66,"body":"talk about urban renewal in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":292.1,"endTime":296.66,"body":"in the US and gentrification and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":296.66,"endTime":299.45,"body":"what it does to different cities"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":296.66,"endTime":299.45,"body":"and different neighborhoods, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":299.45,"endTime":303.62,"body":"also, and we can definitely go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":299.45,"endTime":303.62,"body":"there in a moment. But I want to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":303.62,"endTime":308.42,"body":"pause for a little bit longer on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":303.62,"endTime":308.42,"body":"this idea of characters that are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":308.42,"endTime":313.49,"body":"fully human, right that are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":308.42,"endTime":313.49,"body":"capable of beauty and connection"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":313.49,"endTime":317.84000000000003,"body":"and love and also violence and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":313.49,"endTime":317.84000000000003,"body":"awful things right just like any"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":317.84000000000003,"endTime":321.62,"body":"human and and that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":317.84000000000003,"endTime":321.62,"body":"things I really loved the actual"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":321.62,"endTime":324.11,"body":"in the book, I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":321.62,"endTime":324.11,"body":"thing I love the most is just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":324.11,"endTime":330.02000000000004,"body":"how human your characters are in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":324.11,"endTime":330.02000000000004,"body":"a lot of ways and how kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":331.19,"endTime":334.58,"body":"you know what anti white"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":331.19,"endTime":334.58,"body":"supremacy that This right there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":334.58,"endTime":338.24,"body":"characters are aspirational."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":334.58,"endTime":338.24,"body":"They're not like two"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":338.24,"endTime":341.84000000000003,"body":"dimensional, they are kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":338.24,"endTime":341.84000000000003,"body":"fully human, which means they're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":341.84000000000003,"endTime":346.1,"body":"fully flood, as well as fully"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":341.84000000000003,"endTime":346.1,"body":"beautiful, right. And in some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":346.1,"endTime":350.36,"body":"ways that almost feels"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":346.1,"endTime":350.36,"body":"countercultural. Sometimes, at"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":350.36,"endTime":353.12,"body":"the moment in reading, I don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":350.36,"endTime":353.12,"body":"know if you felt like that when"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":353.12,"endTime":356.18,"body":"you were writing, because there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":353.12,"endTime":356.18,"body":"is almost this push to package"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":356.18,"endTime":361.49,"body":"everything nowadays, into kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":356.18,"endTime":361.49,"body":"of neat boxes. And that's what I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":361.49,"endTime":364.79,"body":"loved about your book that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":361.49,"endTime":364.79,"body":"actually was in that way. Am I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":364.79,"endTime":367.55,"body":"making sense? I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":364.79,"endTime":367.55,"body":"that resonates with you at all."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":367.73,"endTime":368.3,"body":"Yes,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":368.3,"endTime":370.58,"body":"and thank you, and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":368.3,"endTime":370.58,"body":"I'm glad you picked up on that I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":370.58,"endTime":375.32,"body":"have no interest in characters"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":370.58,"endTime":375.32,"body":"being representatives of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":375.35,"endTime":381.2,"body":"particular virtue, or vice. None"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":375.35,"endTime":381.2,"body":"of us are entirely evil, none of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":381.2,"endTime":387.92,"body":"us are entirely good. And that's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":381.2,"endTime":387.92,"body":"what makes us gorgeous. And it's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":387.92,"endTime":394.43,"body":"very, very important to me that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":387.92,"endTime":394.43,"body":"all characters get the service"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":394.46000000000004,"endTime":399.23,"body":"of the light and the dark within"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":394.46000000000004,"endTime":399.23,"body":"them. And that we can relate to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":399.23,"endTime":400.64,"body":"that because we are that way."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":402.17,"endTime":405.59000000000003,"body":"Absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":402.17,"endTime":405.59000000000003,"body":"think that that pressure"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":405.59000000000003,"endTime":410.66,"body":"representation can be turned up"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":405.59000000000003,"endTime":410.66,"body":"so high, I think for minoritized"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":410.99,"endTime":415.46000000000004,"body":"characters and or writers or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":410.99,"endTime":415.46000000000004,"body":"both, right in terms of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":415.49,"endTime":419.18,"body":"oh, there's sometimes there's so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":415.49,"endTime":419.18,"body":"much pushback, oh, this queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":419.18,"endTime":421.55,"body":"character is flawed, or even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":419.18,"endTime":421.55,"body":"though it's not fully"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":421.55,"endTime":425.36,"body":"representative of everything, or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":421.55,"endTime":425.36,"body":"why are bad, you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":425.36,"endTime":428.0,"body":"want to represent your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":425.36,"endTime":428.0,"body":"characters in certain ways. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":428.0,"endTime":430.58,"body":"I wonder if you struggle with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":428.0,"endTime":430.58,"body":"that at all, when you were"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":430.58,"endTime":434.75,"body":"writing the book, if you felt"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":430.58,"endTime":434.75,"body":"this pressure, especially now"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":434.75,"endTime":438.86,"body":"that there is also so much"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":434.75,"endTime":438.86,"body":"social media, input noise,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":438.86,"endTime":441.47,"body":"whatever we want to call it,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":438.86,"endTime":441.47,"body":"definitely, as a writer, notice"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":441.47,"endTime":444.98,"body":"differences, somebody who was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":441.47,"endTime":444.98,"body":"old and over 50 of like, what's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":444.98,"endTime":448.76,"body":"it like to write before a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":444.98,"endTime":448.76,"body":"social media, and with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":448.76,"endTime":452.24,"body":"social media noise about what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":448.76,"endTime":452.24,"body":"writing should be about and we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":452.24,"endTime":453.95,"body":"are representation should be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":452.24,"endTime":453.95,"body":"about?"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":454.97,"endTime":457.97,"body":"Yeah, so I mean,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":454.97,"endTime":457.97,"body":"this is a very, very important"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":457.97,"endTime":461.66,"body":"part of my writing practice to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":457.97,"endTime":461.66,"body":"render queer characters so that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":461.66,"endTime":465.98,"body":"they are not one or two"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":461.66,"endTime":465.98,"body":"dimensional. You know, we've"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":465.98,"endTime":471.05,"body":"we've had so much literature"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":465.98,"endTime":471.05,"body":"written where the queer"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":471.05,"endTime":476.54,"body":"characters are, you know, drug"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":471.05,"endTime":476.54,"body":"addicts, or prostitutes have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":476.54,"endTime":481.43,"body":"suicidal ideation, you know, our"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":476.54,"endTime":481.43,"body":"stylish confidence to love"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":481.43,"endTime":485.3,"body":"Lauren women. What have you, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":481.43,"endTime":485.3,"body":"know, these archetypes and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":485.3,"endTime":490.28000000000003,"body":"there's, I don't oppose those"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":485.3,"endTime":490.28000000000003,"body":"representations, because some of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":490.28000000000003,"endTime":496.67,"body":"it is relevant. But a lot of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":490.28000000000003,"endTime":496.67,"body":"times, especially for presumable"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":496.85,"endTime":501.41,"body":"presumes straight audiences, the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":496.85,"endTime":501.41,"body":"queer character needs to be a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":501.41,"endTime":506.54,"body":"unicorn, it needs to be a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":501.41,"endTime":506.54,"body":"victim, or it needs to be, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":506.54,"endTime":511.34000000000003,"body":"know, this kind of bright, shiny"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":506.54,"endTime":511.34000000000003,"body":"fairy, what have you, right? It"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":511.34000000000003,"endTime":517.1,"body":"becomes a stock character that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":511.34000000000003,"endTime":517.1,"body":"somehow is used, in contrast to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":517.1,"endTime":522.17,"body":"the straight character. And I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":517.1,"endTime":522.17,"body":"definitely am not interested in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":522.17,"endTime":531.47,"body":"that. For example, Peter in the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":522.17,"endTime":531.47,"body":"novel, is a queer teenager. And"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":532.0699999999999,"endTime":537.3199999999999,"body":"I didn't want him struggling"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":532.0699999999999,"endTime":537.3199999999999,"body":"with his sexuality. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":537.3199999999999,"endTime":543.71,"body":"want his story to be a coming"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":537.3199999999999,"endTime":543.71,"body":"out story. And I, I asked"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":543.71,"endTime":550.1899999999999,"body":"myself, What kind of queer"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":543.71,"endTime":550.1899999999999,"body":"teenage representation could be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":550.37,"endTime":554.27,"body":"terrific and complicating the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":550.37,"endTime":554.27,"body":"landscape for potential queer"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":554.27,"endTime":560.2099999999999,"body":"readers. And that's when I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":554.27,"endTime":560.2099999999999,"body":"decided that he was going to be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":560.24,"endTime":564.38,"body":"a sexually confident individual,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":560.24,"endTime":564.38,"body":"he was going to be sexually"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":564.38,"endTime":569.81,"body":"active. He wasn't going to be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":564.38,"endTime":569.81,"body":"concerned about that aspect. He"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":569.81,"endTime":574.28,"body":"was just going to be looking for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":569.81,"endTime":574.28,"body":"love. And, you know, in all the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":574.28,"endTime":579.53,"body":"wrong places like most of us do."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":574.28,"endTime":579.53,"body":"But you know, not to be this"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":579.53,"endTime":588.2299999999999,"body":"cowering, you know, simpering"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":579.53,"endTime":588.2299999999999,"body":"victim of, you know, his, his"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":588.2299999999999,"endTime":593.54,"body":"burgeoning queerness. He owns"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":588.2299999999999,"endTime":593.54,"body":"it. Yeah. And I think that could"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":593.54,"endTime":597.56,"body":"be nice. That could be nice for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":593.54,"endTime":597.56,"body":"for queer readers now."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":598.7299999999999,"endTime":601.79,"body":"Absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":598.7299999999999,"endTime":601.79,"body":"love that about Peter. And also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":601.79,"endTime":606.8599999999999,"body":"because there are so many young"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":601.79,"endTime":606.8599999999999,"body":"people wear that is much more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":606.8599999999999,"endTime":610.3399999999999,"body":"similar to where they're at,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":606.8599999999999,"endTime":610.3399999999999,"body":"rather than maybe the more kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":610.3399999999999,"endTime":614.0899999999999,"body":"of really struggling or I'm not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":610.3399999999999,"endTime":614.0899999999999,"body":"very confident, right. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":614.0899999999999,"endTime":616.91,"body":"like, like you said, there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":614.0899999999999,"endTime":616.91,"body":"just one portrayal by as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":616.91,"endTime":619.76,"body":"somebody who works with young"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":616.91,"endTime":619.76,"body":"people, and definitely at that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":619.76,"endTime":623.66,"body":"moment of like, Yes, Peter is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":619.76,"endTime":623.66,"body":"the character that we don't see"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":623.66,"endTime":629.3299999999999,"body":"very often, but that does"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":623.66,"endTime":629.3299999999999,"body":"represent some of the folks in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":629.3299999999999,"endTime":633.5,"body":"our community if that makes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":629.3299999999999,"endTime":633.5,"body":"sense. And so I really did love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":633.5,"endTime":638.0,"body":"that Talk about this character"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":633.5,"endTime":638.0,"body":"in particular, in and there are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":638.0,"endTime":641.24,"body":"so many stories that you could"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":638.0,"endTime":641.24,"body":"have picked, right? So many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":641.24,"endTime":644.9,"body":"different stories, so many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":641.24,"endTime":644.9,"body":"different representation. What"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":645.05,"endTime":648.53,"body":"was it about Peter in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":645.05,"endTime":648.53,"body":"particular, or any of the other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":648.53,"endTime":652.6099999999999,"body":"characters that kind of hold to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":648.53,"endTime":652.6099999999999,"body":"you? Because there's kind of,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":652.6999999999999,"endTime":656.3299999999999,"body":"yes. I'm just curious about,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":652.6999999999999,"endTime":656.3299999999999,"body":"like the choice of the central"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":656.3299999999999,"endTime":659.3599999999999,"body":"characters, so to speak. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":656.3299999999999,"endTime":659.3599999999999,"body":"now, it's so it's hard to talk"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":659.3599999999999,"endTime":662.3599999999999,"body":"about book without spoiling it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":659.3599999999999,"endTime":662.3599999999999,"body":"for people who haven't read it."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":662.39,"endTime":665.39,"body":"But you know, let's see, let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":662.39,"endTime":665.39,"body":"see what we can do here."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":665.87,"endTime":669.1999999999999,"body":"Sure. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":665.87,"endTime":669.1999999999999,"body":"there's three central characters"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":669.1999999999999,"endTime":673.79,"body":"to the novel, all written in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":669.1999999999999,"endTime":673.79,"body":"their, their perspectives woven"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":673.79,"endTime":677.7199999999999,"body":"throughout, and the structure"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":673.79,"endTime":677.7199999999999,"body":"and Peter being one of them"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":677.7199999999999,"endTime":680.66,"body":"this, you know, this queer"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":677.7199999999999,"endTime":680.66,"body":"teenager who lives in the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":680.66,"endTime":688.37,"body":"neighborhood, that is scheduled"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":680.66,"endTime":688.37,"body":"for demolition. His mother, Ruth"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":688.37,"endTime":694.5799999999999,"body":"Ann, who is estranged from her,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":688.37,"endTime":694.5799999999999,"body":"her husband, and then this"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":694.7299999999999,"endTime":702.68,"body":"religious cleric and the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":694.7299999999999,"endTime":702.68,"body":"Catholic Church, Thomas the, the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":702.68,"endTime":712.9699999999999,"body":"choice of the characters. Very,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":702.68,"endTime":712.9699999999999,"body":"firstly, Ruthanne is a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":712.9699999999999,"endTime":718.37,"body":"redemption song, for my own"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":712.9699999999999,"endTime":718.37,"body":"mother, Ruth Ann is not my"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":718.37,"endTime":724.9399999999999,"body":"mother, at all. But my mother"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":718.37,"endTime":724.9399999999999,"body":"did go through domestic"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":724.9399999999999,"endTime":730.4,"body":"violence. And it was pretty"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":724.9399999999999,"endTime":730.4,"body":"severe to the point where it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":730.4,"endTime":734.93,"body":"impeded her social mobility as"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":730.4,"endTime":734.93,"body":"well as her economic mobility,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":735.5899999999999,"endTime":745.04,"body":"and mostly her emotional growth."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":735.5899999999999,"endTime":745.04,"body":"And I always wanted to give my"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":745.04,"endTime":750.41,"body":"mother a redemption story. So"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":745.04,"endTime":750.41,"body":"this fictionalized account,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":751.55,"endTime":757.8499999999999,"body":"that's where the novel truly"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":751.55,"endTime":757.8499999999999,"body":"began. Peter comes in as kind of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":757.8499999999999,"endTime":761.6899999999999,"body":"like, of a fantasy version of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":757.8499999999999,"endTime":761.6899999999999,"body":"what I wish I could have been."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":762.62,"endTime":767.63,"body":"Right. What I aspired, you know,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":762.62,"endTime":767.63,"body":"I was unfortunately, that kid"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":767.63,"endTime":771.2299999999999,"body":"that, you know, struggled with"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":767.63,"endTime":771.2299999999999,"body":"the shame of, of their"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":771.2299999999999,"endTime":778.2199999999999,"body":"queerness. And, and I wanted, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":771.2299999999999,"endTime":778.2199999999999,"body":"wanted to see a young person not"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":778.25,"endTime":783.14,"body":"I wanted them to not possess"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":778.25,"endTime":783.14,"body":"shame, and to be concerned about"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":783.14,"endTime":789.1099999999999,"body":"other things, because how, how"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":783.14,"endTime":789.1099999999999,"body":"wonderful would that be, and the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":789.1099999999999,"endTime":797.87,"body":"cleric, Thomas is more, it's a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":789.1099999999999,"endTime":797.87,"body":"larger kind of social commentary"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":798.62,"endTime":802.64,"body":"about Baltimore, which has a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":798.62,"endTime":802.64,"body":"very Catholic tradition to it."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":803.24,"endTime":810.62,"body":"And the Catholic Church has not"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":803.24,"endTime":810.62,"body":"been very mobilized and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":810.8599999999999,"endTime":817.52,"body":"defending and championing for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":810.8599999999999,"endTime":817.52,"body":"those who are struggling most."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":817.7299999999999,"endTime":820.88,"body":"They, they definitely have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":817.7299999999999,"endTime":820.88,"body":"outreach programs, but they,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":821.2099999999999,"endTime":830.06,"body":"they don't work to protect"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":821.2099999999999,"endTime":830.06,"body":"spaces and housing. And, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":830.06,"endTime":833.3599999999999,"body":"know, after my research about"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":830.06,"endTime":833.3599999999999,"body":"Baltimore, in the kind of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":833.3599999999999,"endTime":837.9799999999999,"body":"gentrification issues, the being"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":833.3599999999999,"endTime":837.9799999999999,"body":"one of the leaders of the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":837.9799999999999,"endTime":842.42,"body":"community, the Catholic Church,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":837.9799999999999,"endTime":842.42,"body":"I wanted to give, I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":842.42,"endTime":848.81,"body":"give one of the members, that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":842.42,"endTime":848.81,"body":"agency to become what I feel"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":849.5,"endTime":854.42,"body":"Baltimore needs, which is more"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":849.5,"endTime":854.42,"body":"of an activated Catholic church,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":854.4499999999999,"endTime":859.7299999999999,"body":"because it is so influential."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":854.4499999999999,"endTime":859.7299999999999,"body":"And so, Thomas represents that."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":861.17,"endTime":864.05,"body":"And I love that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":861.17,"endTime":864.05,"body":"because it's also rare, I think,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":864.05,"endTime":866.5999999999999,"body":"in my experience, and maybe I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":864.05,"endTime":866.5999999999999,"body":"reading the wrong books, but to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":866.5999999999999,"endTime":871.4599999999999,"body":"find two characters like Peter"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":866.5999999999999,"endTime":871.4599999999999,"body":"and Thomas in the same novel,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":871.67,"endTime":876.4399999999999,"body":"right to fight light, and yet"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":871.67,"endTime":876.4399999999999,"body":"something else I loved about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":876.4399999999999,"endTime":878.93,"body":"your book. Oh, and again, I feel"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":876.4399999999999,"endTime":878.93,"body":"like I could go in so many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":878.93,"endTime":882.29,"body":"different directions. I do want"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":878.93,"endTime":882.29,"body":"to talk about Baltimore and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":882.29,"endTime":886.2199999999999,"body":"place because place is very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":882.29,"endTime":886.2199999999999,"body":"important in this book. I want"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":886.2199999999999,"endTime":890.51,"body":"to kind of step back for a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":886.2199999999999,"endTime":890.51,"body":"moment to what the beautiful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":890.51,"endTime":893.4799999999999,"body":"things that you said about the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":890.51,"endTime":893.4799999999999,"body":"character of Irfan, right that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":893.7199999999999,"endTime":897.7099999999999,"body":"that redemption song, I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":893.7199999999999,"endTime":897.7099999999999,"body":"that's one of the as somebody"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":897.7099999999999,"endTime":900.74,"body":"who has survived domestic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":897.7099999999999,"endTime":900.74,"body":"violence, both as a child and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":900.74,"endTime":906.38,"body":"then as a young adult, that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":900.74,"endTime":906.38,"body":"definitely it was hard to read"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":906.38,"endTime":910.2199999999999,"body":"the book at times. And it was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":906.38,"endTime":910.2199999999999,"body":"also amazing to read the book,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":911.3599999999999,"endTime":915.26,"body":"you know, at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":911.3599999999999,"endTime":915.26,"body":"because I thought it was just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":915.26,"endTime":920.12,"body":"really insightfully written"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":915.26,"endTime":920.12,"body":"again, I'm kind of walking the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":920.12,"endTime":924.5,"body":"line of not giving readers any"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":920.12,"endTime":924.5,"body":"spoilers, but there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":924.5,"endTime":928.55,"body":"insight there and and I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":924.5,"endTime":928.55,"body":"that you talked about this being"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":928.55,"endTime":932.66,"body":"like a kind of a redemption song"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":928.55,"endTime":932.66,"body":"in some ways, right of that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":932.66,"endTime":935.63,"body":"impact and that in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":932.66,"endTime":935.63,"body":"intergenerational impact as well"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":935.66,"endTime":938.93,"body":"that domestic violence can have,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":935.66,"endTime":938.93,"body":"right? Unless there's really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":938.93,"endTime":942.62,"body":"active engagement in breaking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":938.93,"endTime":942.62,"body":"that cycle, because often"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":942.62,"endTime":945.65,"body":"domestic violence in my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":942.62,"endTime":945.65,"body":"experiences goes back"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":945.65,"endTime":949.64,"body":"generations. And another note,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":945.65,"endTime":949.64,"body":"yeah. And I see you nodding. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":949.88,"endTime":953.12,"body":"I was wondering if any of that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":949.88,"endTime":953.12,"body":"resonates for you that kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":953.15,"endTime":955.0999999999999,"body":"intergenerational thread as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":953.15,"endTime":955.0999999999999,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":956.4799999999999,"endTime":962.9,"body":"Absolutely. It, we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":956.4799999999999,"endTime":962.9,"body":"see that in families, you know,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":962.9,"endTime":967.16,"body":"I can speak personally that that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":962.9,"endTime":967.16,"body":"did exist. And my mother's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":967.16,"endTime":976.6999999999999,"body":"family, she broke that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":967.16,"endTime":976.6999999999999,"body":"tradition. Good for her. But"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":976.8499999999999,"endTime":982.0999999999999,"body":"very much, you know, the, it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":976.8499999999999,"endTime":982.0999999999999,"body":"passes on on this, like, a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":982.0999999999999,"endTime":989.51,"body":"genetic predisposition. And that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":982.0999999999999,"endTime":989.51,"body":"coupled with poverty, especially"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":989.81,"endTime":994.4599999999999,"body":"the very particular brand of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":989.81,"endTime":994.4599999999999,"body":"urban American poverty, yes."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":994.9699999999999,"endTime":1001.0,"body":"Those it's, it's like a perfect"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":994.9699999999999,"endTime":1001.0,"body":"storm that perpetuates that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1001.03,"endTime":1007.27,"body":"intergenerational struggle and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1001.03,"endTime":1007.27,"body":"trauma. And so it makes sense"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1007.27,"endTime":1014.53,"body":"that we see that in this"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1007.27,"endTime":1014.53,"body":"neighborhood, you know, visa vie"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1014.5899999999999,"endTime":1015.28,"body":"Ruthanne."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1017.0799999999999,"endTime":1019.3599999999999,"body":"Let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1017.0799999999999,"endTime":1019.3599999999999,"body":"gender as well, because right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1019.3599999999999,"endTime":1022.5699999999999,"body":"there's class, the socio"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1019.3599999999999,"endTime":1022.5699999999999,"body":"economics is plays. And there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1022.5699999999999,"endTime":1027.04,"body":"also a gender dynamic, often,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1022.5699999999999,"endTime":1027.04,"body":"right, and the gender dynamic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1027.04,"endTime":1032.2,"body":"can also be complex, right? That"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1027.04,"endTime":1032.2,"body":"is not just necessarily, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1032.2,"endTime":1035.2,"body":"know, women are more likely to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1032.2,"endTime":1035.2,"body":"experience domestic violence,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1035.2,"endTime":1039.07,"body":"because I think also, in queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1035.2,"endTime":1039.07,"body":"community, there's often a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1039.07,"endTime":1041.41,"body":"of intimate partner violence,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1039.07,"endTime":1041.41,"body":"because there's a lot of trauma,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1044.86,"body":"you know, people are trying to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1044.86,"body":"relate to each other. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1044.86,"endTime":1047.8,"body":"they're not always having work"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1044.86,"endTime":1047.8,"body":"for their trauma, or not having"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1047.8,"endTime":1051.64,"body":"the tools or not having the,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1047.8,"endTime":1051.64,"body":"even just the capacity just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1052.72,"endTime":1056.5,"body":"through trying to survive under"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1052.72,"endTime":1056.5,"body":"capitalism. And so, yeah, let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1056.5,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"talk about gender in the novel,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1056.5,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"or even just generally, in your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1060.55,"endTime":1064.54,"body":"writing, if you like, and kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1060.55,"endTime":1064.54,"body":"of how it intersects with all of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1064.54,"endTime":1070.09,"body":"those themes that we've been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1064.54,"endTime":1070.09,"body":"talking about so far. Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1072.34,"endTime":1075.97,"body":"It's like, where do you begin?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1072.34,"endTime":1075.97,"body":"Just an easy question."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1075.8,"endTime":1082.1599999999999,"body":"Yeah. I mean, all"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1075.8,"endTime":1082.1599999999999,"body":"my all my books, talk, discuss"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1082.1599999999999,"endTime":1089.36,"body":"gender, explore gender. My, my"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1082.1599999999999,"endTime":1089.36,"body":"nonfiction explores it very"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1089.36,"endTime":1095.8999999999999,"body":"explicitly. The Fabulous thick"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1089.36,"endTime":1095.8999999999999,"body":"plastic fantastic, has a thread"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1095.93,"endTime":1100.94,"body":"of, of gender identity"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1095.93,"endTime":1100.94,"body":"throughout, you know, identify"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1100.94,"endTime":1107.48,"body":"as non binary. And that term"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1100.94,"endTime":1107.48,"body":"wasn't even in my purview. You"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1107.48,"endTime":1110.4199999999998,"body":"know, when I was in college with"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1107.48,"endTime":1110.4199999999998,"body":"where I was already"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1110.4199999999998,"endTime":1116.69,"body":"demonstrating that kind of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1110.4199999999998,"endTime":1116.69,"body":"sensibility. And when the when I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1121.49,"body":"discovered that term, one, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1121.49,"body":"love anything that that pushes"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1121.49,"endTime":1126.8899999999999,"body":"against binary opposition's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1121.49,"endTime":1126.8899999999999,"body":"first, right. I like I like"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1126.8899999999999,"endTime":1133.52,"body":"spectrum oriented, identities"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1126.8899999999999,"endTime":1133.52,"body":"and dispositions overall. So"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1133.55,"endTime":1137.0,"body":"conceptually, I thought it was a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1133.55,"endTime":1137.0,"body":"very valuable term. But"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1137.0,"endTime":1142.1,"body":"personally, I was able to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1137.0,"endTime":1142.1,"body":"inhabit that. And it liberated"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1142.52,"endTime":1149.57,"body":"me, not just from trying to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1142.52,"endTime":1149.57,"body":"adopt a cis sensibility and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1149.57,"endTime":1153.47,"body":"presentation in my own life, but"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1149.57,"endTime":1153.47,"body":"that it wasn't even about being"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1153.47,"endTime":1159.74,"body":"cis or not being cis it was, it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1153.47,"endTime":1159.74,"body":"was, you know, I'm going to, I'm"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1159.74,"endTime":1165.56,"body":"going to assert various aspects"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1159.74,"endTime":1165.56,"body":"of my identity on that spectrum."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1165.8,"endTime":1169.61,"body":"That now I feel like I have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1165.8,"endTime":1169.61,"body":"permission to do in an"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1169.94,"endTime":1176.4199999999998,"body":"interesting way, right? There's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1169.94,"endTime":1176.4199999999998,"body":"sadly labels are part of our day"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1176.4199999999998,"endTime":1184.28,"body":"to day and you know, even us non"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1176.4199999999998,"endTime":1184.28,"body":"binary folks are, we feel this"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1184.34,"endTime":1188.93,"body":"propensity to apply a label"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1184.34,"endTime":1188.93,"body":"because that to be more legible,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1189.32,"endTime":1193.76,"body":"to the outside world. And what I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1189.32,"endTime":1193.76,"body":"love about non binary pneus"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1194.57,"endTime":1202.43,"body":"gender fluid are the fact that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1194.57,"endTime":1202.43,"body":"we we constantly change and you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1202.43,"endTime":1208.6699999999998,"body":"know, my essays my nonfiction"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1202.43,"endTime":1208.6699999999998,"body":"really explores that my short"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1208.6699999999998,"endTime":1212.8999999999999,"body":"fiction even has characters that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1208.6699999999998,"endTime":1212.8999999999999,"body":"are all along those gender"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1212.8999999999999,"endTime":1217.37,"body":"lines, without explanation"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1212.8999999999999,"endTime":1217.37,"body":"that's very important to me as"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1217.37,"endTime":1221.81,"body":"well, that they just live in the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1217.37,"endTime":1221.81,"body":"world because they are human"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1221.81,"endTime":1226.1599999999999,"body":"beings and you don't need to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1221.81,"endTime":1226.1599999999999,"body":"explain their quote unquote"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1226.1599999999999,"endTime":1232.52,"body":"difference because that others"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1226.1599999999999,"endTime":1232.52,"body":"them and I'm very uninterested"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1232.61,"endTime":1237.32,"body":"in exploring a They're nervous"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1232.61,"endTime":1237.32,"body":"I, I want to kind of shatter it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1237.68,"endTime":1242.54,"body":"by having the readers just"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1237.68,"endTime":1242.54,"body":"accept exactly these human"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1242.54,"endTime":1250.31,"body":"beings who happen to have gender"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1242.54,"endTime":1250.31,"body":"fluidity in some way. So I have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1250.85,"endTime":1258.3799999999999,"body":"trans characters I have what"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1250.85,"endTime":1258.3799999999999,"body":"appear to be cis, characters,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1258.59,"endTime":1260.0,"body":"and then everything in between."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1261.58,"endTime":1264.586,"body":"And I love that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1261.58,"endTime":1264.586,"body":"too, because I'm always like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1264.653,"endTime":1268.729,"body":"well, like how do you draw the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1264.653,"endTime":1268.729,"body":"line between like, Where Where"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1268.796,"endTime":1272.337,"body":"does trans end and cis begins"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1268.796,"endTime":1272.337,"body":"and non binary ends and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1272.404,"endTime":1276.346,"body":"something else begins, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1272.404,"endTime":1276.346,"body":"It's like, it's such a, those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1276.413,"endTime":1280.69,"body":"lines are so artificial, in some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1276.413,"endTime":1280.69,"body":"ways, right? And that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1280.7559999999999,"endTime":1284.431,"body":"a lot of my work. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1280.7559999999999,"endTime":1284.431,"body":"definitely focused on kind of on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1284.498,"endTime":1288.441,"body":"that and our gender liberation"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1284.498,"endTime":1288.441,"body":"is really for the benefit of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1288.507,"endTime":1292.6499999999999,"body":"everyone. Right. And then often"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1288.507,"endTime":1292.6499999999999,"body":"people are kind of looking for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1292.7169999999999,"endTime":1296.927,"body":"permission to be expensive, or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1292.7169999999999,"endTime":1296.927,"body":"their reacts. So in ways they're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1296.993,"endTime":1301.069,"body":"so policing and constrictive"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1296.993,"endTime":1301.069,"body":"because they feel so policed and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1301.136,"endTime":1305.145,"body":"constricted, themselves, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1301.136,"endTime":1305.145,"body":"know, not to be too too kind to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1305.212,"endTime":1308.887,"body":"folks who are transphobic or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1305.212,"endTime":1308.887,"body":"queer phobic, but there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1308.954,"endTime":1312.963,"body":"definitely a element of like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1308.954,"endTime":1312.963,"body":"restriction and constriction, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1313.03,"endTime":1317.106,"body":"think in that kind of gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1313.03,"endTime":1317.106,"body":"policing that can go on and so I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1317.173,"endTime":1320.914,"body":"love that you're like, people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1317.173,"endTime":1320.914,"body":"don't need I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1320.981,"endTime":1324.857,"body":"explain those characters. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1320.981,"endTime":1324.857,"body":"like, Absolutely, people can"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1324.8,"endTime":1329.6299999999999,"body":"You know, and you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1324.8,"endTime":1329.6299999999999,"body":"mentioned gender policing. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1324.923,"endTime":1325.6589999999999,"body":"just exist."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1330.35,"endTime":1335.99,"body":"I, where I'm most concerned"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1330.35,"endTime":1335.99,"body":"about that. is actually not with"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1335.99,"endTime":1340.22,"body":"the cishet community. It's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1335.99,"endTime":1340.22,"body":"within the queer community. The"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1340.22,"endTime":1344.4199999999998,"body":"fact that the queer community"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1340.22,"endTime":1344.4199999999998,"body":"performs that kind of gender"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1344.4199999999998,"endTime":1349.25,"body":"policing is really upsetting to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1344.4199999999998,"endTime":1349.25,"body":"me. Because we should be the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1349.25,"endTime":1353.09,"body":"ones that are you know,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1349.25,"endTime":1353.09,"body":"perpetuating this liberation"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1353.09,"endTime":1358.31,"body":"that eventually also affects cis"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1353.09,"endTime":1358.31,"body":"het folks because honestly, no"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1358.31,"endTime":1364.76,"body":"one is no one is fully cis het."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1358.31,"endTime":1364.76,"body":"I really believe that deep in my"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1364.76,"endTime":1373.31,"body":"heart, and if we can somehow be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1364.76,"endTime":1373.31,"body":"the be the kind of the the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1373.31,"endTime":1379.61,"body":"avenue for that liberation for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1373.31,"endTime":1379.61,"body":"everybody, then we're going to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1379.61,"endTime":1384.1699999999998,"body":"have a much more peaceable"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1379.61,"endTime":1384.1699999999998,"body":"world. Right? Because we start"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1384.1699999999998,"endTime":1387.8899999999999,"body":"shattering these notions of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1384.1699999999998,"endTime":1387.8899999999999,"body":"like, I must fit in this box, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1387.8899999999999,"endTime":1391.61,"body":"must fit in this box. Right? We"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1387.8899999999999,"endTime":1391.61,"body":"all need to get rid of that."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1392.48,"endTime":1393.08,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1393.1889999999999,"endTime":1396.819,"body":"100% the heart of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1393.1889999999999,"endTime":1396.819,"body":"the multiverse is clear. I truly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1396.819,"endTime":1400.209,"body":"believe that I don't think it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1396.819,"endTime":1400.209,"body":"was an accident. Even as a young"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1400.239,"endTime":1403.6889999999999,"body":"teenager when I had no idea"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1400.239,"endTime":1403.6889999999999,"body":"about queerness or gender. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1403.6889999999999,"endTime":1406.719,"body":"didn't have a language. Yeah, in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1403.6889999999999,"endTime":1406.719,"body":"the early 80s, for any of that."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1407.229,"endTime":1411.1889999999999,"body":"It is in Italy. But for example,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1407.229,"endTime":1411.1889999999999,"body":"I knew that like certain kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1411.1889999999999,"endTime":1414.219,"body":"of, like even geopolitical"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1411.1889999999999,"endTime":1414.219,"body":"borders or like geopolitical"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1414.219,"endTime":1418.4489999999998,"body":"borders are fake and wrong. In"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1414.219,"endTime":1418.4489999999998,"body":"people like you're young and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1418.4489999999998,"endTime":1421.029,"body":"like you'll change your mind."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1418.4489999999998,"endTime":1421.029,"body":"You'll see that's not a pro"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1421.059,"endTime":1424.119,"body":"abolitionism it's not a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1421.059,"endTime":1424.119,"body":"practical stance. When it comes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1424.119,"endTime":1427.4189999999999,"body":"to geopolitical borders. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1424.119,"endTime":1427.4189999999999,"body":"like, 52, I've now changed my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1427.4189999999999,"endTime":1431.9189999999999,"body":"mind. And, in fact, let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1427.4189999999999,"endTime":1431.9189999999999,"body":"abolish even more borders, let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1431.9189999999999,"endTime":1435.609,"body":"abolish even more things, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1431.9189999999999,"endTime":1435.609,"body":"let's like it was like, if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1435.609,"endTime":1439.599,"body":"anything else, I think that my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1435.609,"endTime":1439.599,"body":"desire to kind of break down"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1439.599,"endTime":1442.569,"body":"some of those borders and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1439.599,"endTime":1442.569,"body":"barriers is only become more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1442.569,"endTime":1445.959,"body":"intense rather than less"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1442.569,"endTime":1445.959,"body":"intense. As I've gotten older."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1448.089,"endTime":1451.029,"body":"There's a queerness to that,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1448.089,"endTime":1451.029,"body":"right? It's just it's about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1451.029,"endTime":1454.479,"body":"queering kind of our dominant"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1451.029,"endTime":1454.479,"body":"understanding that being imposed"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1454.479,"endTime":1458.049,"body":"on us and so many, for so many"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1454.479,"endTime":1458.049,"body":"different systems of oppression."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1458.049,"endTime":1459.249,"body":"I think, Alex,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1459.28,"endTime":1465.46,"body":"I truly believe"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1459.28,"endTime":1465.46,"body":"that. If we want to eradicate"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1465.46,"endTime":1469.54,"body":"the notion of borders"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1465.46,"endTime":1469.54,"body":"politically, we have to start"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1469.57,"endTime":1474.28,"body":"spiritually. And that an"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1469.57,"endTime":1474.28,"body":"identity is where it begins,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1474.28,"endTime":1479.23,"body":"right? That that body world"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1474.28,"endTime":1479.23,"body":"relationship. I mean, our"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1479.23,"endTime":1486.34,"body":"political systems and new"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1479.23,"endTime":1486.34,"body":"typologies that we have created,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1487.03,"endTime":1491.47,"body":"has everything to do with the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1487.03,"endTime":1491.47,"body":"way that we identify ourselves."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1491.62,"endTime":1496.1499999999999,"body":"So if we begin to transform"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1491.62,"endTime":1496.1499999999999,"body":"that, I really feel like that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1496.1499999999999,"endTime":1500.29,"body":"could have a reverberation that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1496.1499999999999,"endTime":1500.29,"body":"moves way beyond the personal"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1500.47,"endTime":1503.77,"body":"and into, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1500.47,"endTime":1503.77,"body":"political, the social, even the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1503.77,"endTime":1507.58,"body":"economic. I really do believe"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1503.77,"endTime":1507.58,"body":"that. I don't know if we're just"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1508.36,"endTime":1512.05,"body":"optimistic, but I prefer to be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1508.36,"endTime":1512.05,"body":"in that space."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1512.52,"endTime":1514.3799999999999,"body":"I don't know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1512.52,"endTime":1514.3799999999999,"body":"about that. I have been called"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1514.3799999999999,"endTime":1518.6699999999998,"body":"the relentless optimist by my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1514.3799999999999,"endTime":1518.6699999999998,"body":"oldest child and she's always"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1518.6699999999998,"endTime":1521.97,"body":"like, you are relentless"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1518.6699999999998,"endTime":1521.97,"body":"optimist, and it's great. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1521.97,"endTime":1524.25,"body":"sometimes there's a low margin."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1521.97,"endTime":1524.25,"body":"I was like, okay, I can hear"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1524.25,"endTime":1530.01,"body":"that feedback. You know, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1524.25,"endTime":1530.01,"body":"like, it's like, me too. I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1530.01,"endTime":1532.83,"body":"like, I am a little much I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1530.01,"endTime":1532.83,"body":"going to the older I get it the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1532.83,"endTime":1536.37,"body":"more I own them like I am a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1532.83,"endTime":1536.37,"body":"of match. And that's okay. But I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1536.37,"endTime":1540.33,"body":"love what you said about having"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1536.37,"endTime":1540.33,"body":"to start spiritually and from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1540.33,"endTime":1544.23,"body":"identity because even as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1540.33,"endTime":1544.23,"body":"separating ourselves so much"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1544.23,"endTime":1546.99,"body":"from Nietzsche, because of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1544.23,"endTime":1546.99,"body":"impact of colonialism, for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1546.99,"endTime":1549.78,"body":"example, that's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1546.99,"endTime":1549.78,"body":"seeing ourselves as separate,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1549.78,"endTime":1553.32,"body":"don't even get me started on the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1549.78,"endTime":1553.32,"body":"doctrine of discovery. And now I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1553.32,"endTime":1557.22,"body":"think that's also connected to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1553.32,"endTime":1557.22,"body":"our view gender. Anyway, I've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1557.22,"endTime":1559.5,"body":"written about it other enough to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1557.22,"endTime":1559.5,"body":"go on about it during your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1559.5,"endTime":1564.3,"body":"interview. But let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1559.5,"endTime":1564.3,"body":"relationship to place as well as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1564.3,"endTime":1567.72,"body":"gender right, because place is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1564.3,"endTime":1567.72,"body":"like another, it's almost like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1567.72,"endTime":1571.95,"body":"Baltimore as another main"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1567.72,"endTime":1571.95,"body":"character in your novel to and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1571.98,"endTime":1574.8,"body":"and also my, I don't know, if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1571.98,"endTime":1574.8,"body":"that's your experience, my my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1574.8,"endTime":1579.27,"body":"experience is also that my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1574.8,"endTime":1579.27,"body":"gender and my queerness changes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1579.27,"endTime":1582.96,"body":"from place to place, right, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1579.27,"endTime":1582.96,"body":"way that I feel like I express"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1582.96,"endTime":1587.6399999999999,"body":"it. Like in my country of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1582.96,"endTime":1587.6399999999999,"body":"origin, in Italy, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1587.6399999999999,"endTime":1590.25,"body":"different. And it's even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1587.6399999999999,"endTime":1590.25,"body":"different if I'm in Rome, where"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1590.25,"endTime":1593.22,"body":"I was brought up or in Sicily,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1590.25,"endTime":1593.22,"body":"when I spent a lot of time, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1593.22,"endTime":1596.76,"body":"know, more rural. In Minnesota,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1593.22,"endTime":1596.76,"body":"it's different in the Twin"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1596.76,"endTime":1600.0,"body":"Cities, they might be in rural"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1596.76,"endTime":1600.0,"body":"areas. When I travel again, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1602.9099999999999,"body":"feel almost like a chameleon"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1602.9099999999999,"body":"sometimes depending on where I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1602.9099999999999,"endTime":1607.23,"body":"traveling. And so I'm curious"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1602.9099999999999,"endTime":1607.23,"body":"about the relationship to plays"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1607.26,"endTime":1611.01,"body":"and gender and that I see you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1607.26,"endTime":1611.01,"body":"nodding. Hopefully, I'm making"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1611.01,"endTime":1612.8999999999999,"body":"some sense in my ramblings."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1613.72,"endTime":1621.07,"body":"Absolutely. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1613.72,"endTime":1621.07,"body":"first off, it really resonates"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1621.07,"endTime":1626.29,"body":"with me what you were saying"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1621.07,"endTime":1626.29,"body":"earlier, your interest in kind"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1626.29,"endTime":1630.55,"body":"of colonial structures, the, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1626.29,"endTime":1630.55,"body":"know, the Doctrine of Discovery,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1630.79,"endTime":1640.18,"body":"this kind of, Judeo Christian"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1630.79,"endTime":1640.18,"body":"Islamic kind of, brand of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1640.18,"endTime":1645.49,"body":"colonialism. That is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1640.18,"endTime":1645.49,"body":"this assertion, this domination"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1645.52,"endTime":1649.87,"body":"of nature, you know, removing us"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1645.52,"endTime":1649.87,"body":"from the biocentric relationship"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1649.87,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"that we, you know, also have,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1649.87,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"you know, the Judeo Christian"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1653.68,"endTime":1656.71,"body":"Islamic structure is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1653.68,"endTime":1656.71,"body":"anthropocentric. It puts human"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1656.71,"endTime":1660.43,"body":"beings at the top of the chain,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1656.71,"endTime":1660.43,"body":"which of course, creates an"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1660.43,"endTime":1664.0,"body":"arrogance, right, yeah. And we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1660.43,"endTime":1664.0,"body":"see that in capitalism, we see"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1664.0,"endTime":1669.97,"body":"it in colonialization. Right?"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1664.0,"endTime":1669.97,"body":"And I would by no means suggest,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1669.97,"endTime":1673.75,"body":"what is the right way to be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1669.97,"endTime":1673.75,"body":"because I've existed entirely"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1673.75,"endTime":1678.34,"body":"within this construct, even"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1673.75,"endTime":1678.34,"body":"though I feel intuitively to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1678.34,"endTime":1682.18,"body":"push against it, because it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1678.34,"endTime":1682.18,"body":"removes us too far from our"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1682.18,"endTime":1686.35,"body":"nature. So with that, I just"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1682.18,"endTime":1686.35,"body":"want to acknowledge that I love"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1686.35,"endTime":1690.04,"body":"that you're doing that great"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1686.35,"endTime":1690.04,"body":"work. That's amazing. And it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1690.04,"endTime":1695.53,"body":"relates to why place becomes"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1690.04,"endTime":1695.53,"body":"character in my novels, because"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1696.25,"endTime":1703.3899999999999,"body":"a city, a place is a combination"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1696.25,"endTime":1703.3899999999999,"body":"of human beings and nature. And"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1704.47,"endTime":1711.73,"body":"we are nature. And we create"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1704.47,"endTime":1711.73,"body":"these, these agglomerations that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1711.76,"endTime":1717.97,"body":"are kind of like a macrocosmic"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1711.76,"endTime":1717.97,"body":"entity, like a human being, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1717.97,"endTime":1721.72,"body":"know, they are beings. And they"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1717.97,"endTime":1721.72,"body":"operate like beings, their"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1721.72,"endTime":1726.82,"body":"complexity, their structures,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1721.72,"endTime":1726.82,"body":"naturally, because we created"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1726.82,"endTime":1731.05,"body":"them, and they're extensions of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1726.82,"endTime":1731.05,"body":"us. So yeah, I'm, you know,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1731.05,"endTime":1739.93,"body":"there's no, there's there's no"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1731.05,"endTime":1739.93,"body":"doubt why. We, we even gender"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1739.99,"endTime":1746.08,"body":"cities and states and right, we,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1739.99,"endTime":1746.08,"body":"we kind of personify them. You"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1746.08,"endTime":1749.77,"body":"know, we we think of Boston as"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1746.08,"endTime":1749.77,"body":"kind of a masculine city, we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1749.77,"endTime":1753.58,"body":"think of San Francisco as a very"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1749.77,"endTime":1753.58,"body":"feminine city. Right, New York"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1753.58,"endTime":1759.7,"body":"is masculine. Right. And then"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1753.58,"endTime":1759.7,"body":"there's variations within that I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1759.7,"endTime":1767.26,"body":"feel. I feel that our, our"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1759.7,"endTime":1767.26,"body":"propensity to personify extends"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1767.26,"endTime":1772.72,"body":"itself into the way that I that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1767.26,"endTime":1772.72,"body":"I render place, I do feel like"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1772.72,"endTime":1776.74,"body":"it is indeed a character. I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1772.72,"endTime":1776.74,"body":"don't know. Did I answer all"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1776.74,"endTime":1779.83,"body":"your questions? I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1776.74,"endTime":1779.83,"body":"left something out. No,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1779.8899999999999,"endTime":1782.29,"body":"we will figure it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1779.8899999999999,"endTime":1782.29,"body":"out. We'll probably circle back"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1782.29,"endTime":1787.12,"body":"to it again. But I am curious"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1782.29,"endTime":1787.12,"body":"about why Baltimore for American"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1787.1499999999999,"endTime":1790.57,"body":"last fall, like why why"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1787.1499999999999,"endTime":1790.57,"body":"Baltimore specifically, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1791.53,"endTime":1794.44,"body":"yes, like I can guess from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1791.53,"endTime":1794.44,"body":"reading your book, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1794.44,"endTime":1797.8,"body":"interested in your motivation"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1794.44,"endTime":1797.8,"body":"for choosing Baltimore as the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1798.31,"endTime":1800.26,"body":"place character, let's call them"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1800.3799999999999,"endTime":1804.82,"body":"Yeah, Baltimore is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1800.3799999999999,"endTime":1804.82,"body":"one I have a connection to it. I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1804.85,"endTime":1811.24,"body":"did spend my high school years"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1804.85,"endTime":1811.24,"body":"in Baltimore. Even though I did"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1811.24,"endTime":1815.23,"body":"not conceive of this novel, in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1811.24,"endTime":1815.23,"body":"Baltimore, it was actually"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1815.26,"endTime":1819.31,"body":"observing, living in Los"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1815.26,"endTime":1819.31,"body":"Angeles. And this kind of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1820.78,"endTime":1826.27,"body":"overhauling of spaces I was, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1820.78,"endTime":1826.27,"body":"was blown away by how Los"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1826.27,"endTime":1831.61,"body":"Angeles erases space and history"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1826.27,"endTime":1831.61,"body":"and rebuilds and then erases it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1831.61,"endTime":1836.5,"body":"again and rebuilds and There,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1831.61,"endTime":1836.5,"body":"there was something so unique"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1836.5,"endTime":1842.56,"body":"about that, I wouldn't say it's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1836.5,"endTime":1842.56,"body":"bad or good. But the negative"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1842.56,"endTime":1846.07,"body":"aspects of it are they're"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1842.56,"endTime":1846.07,"body":"constantly engaging in an urban"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1846.07,"endTime":1850.96,"body":"renewal that relegates its"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1846.07,"endTime":1850.96,"body":"residents, like it just tosses"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1850.96,"endTime":1854.83,"body":"them into almost a diaspora,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1850.96,"endTime":1854.83,"body":"despite the fact that they are"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1854.83,"endTime":1861.85,"body":"still in Los Angeles. They just"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1854.83,"endTime":1861.85,"body":"la moves people around. And"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1861.8799999999999,"endTime":1865.6,"body":"usually at their detriment, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1861.8799999999999,"endTime":1865.6,"body":"know, I think of things like"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1865.6,"endTime":1870.49,"body":"Chavez Ravine, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1865.6,"endTime":1870.49,"body":"build Dodger Stadium just ousted"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1870.79,"endTime":1876.6699999999998,"body":"an entire dynamic community. And"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1870.79,"endTime":1876.6699999999998,"body":"many cities do it, of course,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1876.85,"endTime":1881.23,"body":"but it was my observations in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1876.85,"endTime":1881.23,"body":"Los Angeles. And the, the gross"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1881.23,"endTime":1887.1699999999998,"body":"erasure that that city engages"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1881.23,"endTime":1887.1699999999998,"body":"in, that made me look back on my"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1887.1699999999998,"endTime":1893.35,"body":"time, you know, living in low"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1887.1699999999998,"endTime":1893.35,"body":"income Baltimore, and seeing a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1893.35,"endTime":1900.37,"body":"city that is obsessed with its"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1893.35,"endTime":1900.37,"body":"history, so much, that it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1900.37,"endTime":1904.06,"body":"doesn't move forward. So it's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1900.37,"endTime":1904.06,"body":"almost like an antithesis to Los"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1904.06,"endTime":1909.76,"body":"Angeles. So I wanted, I wanted"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1904.06,"endTime":1909.76,"body":"to place the phenomenon that I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1909.76,"endTime":1915.82,"body":"observed in LA, into Baltimore,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1909.76,"endTime":1915.82,"body":"to make it more of an American"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1915.82,"endTime":1921.1,"body":"story. And Baltimore in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1915.82,"endTime":1921.1,"body":"particular, has really struggled"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1921.1299999999999,"endTime":1928.18,"body":"since the the industrial, dying,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1921.1299999999999,"endTime":1928.18,"body":"you know, that that occurred,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1929.62,"endTime":1935.11,"body":"you know, the Rust Belt"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1929.62,"endTime":1935.11,"body":"diminishing, and they never got"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1935.11,"endTime":1941.56,"body":"their footing. Even though"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1935.11,"endTime":1941.56,"body":"cities around them did, like New"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1941.56,"endTime":1946.6599999999999,"body":"York, Pittsburgh, right? They,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1941.56,"endTime":1946.6599999999999,"body":"they definitely have more of a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1946.6599999999999,"endTime":1955.6299999999999,"body":"story like Detroit, or Memphis,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1946.6599999999999,"endTime":1955.6299999999999,"body":"or St. Louis. So my affinity for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1955.6299999999999,"endTime":1958.48,"body":"the city already and my"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1955.6299999999999,"endTime":1958.48,"body":"knowledge of the city, you know,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1958.48,"endTime":1964.09,"body":"knowing its streets, may made me"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1958.48,"endTime":1964.09,"body":"think it was a good place to set"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1964.09,"endTime":1968.68,"body":"the book. And it's also a very"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1964.09,"endTime":1968.68,"body":"forgotten city. It's kind of in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1968.68,"endTime":1975.43,"body":"the shadow of New York and DC."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1968.68,"endTime":1975.43,"body":"So I thought I thought it'd be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1976.12,"endTime":1980.08,"body":"because I love the city so"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1976.12,"endTime":1980.08,"body":"deeply. I thought it'd be great"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1980.08,"endTime":1982.81,"body":"to render that character because"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1980.08,"endTime":1982.81,"body":"it's not written about very much"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":1982.84,"endTime":1983.62,"body":"in literature."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1984.579,"endTime":1988.119,"body":"That makes a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1984.579,"endTime":1988.119,"body":"of sense. And I love the this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1988.119,"endTime":1991.779,"body":"beautiful fusion of personal"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1988.119,"endTime":1991.779,"body":"experience and knowledge of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1991.779,"endTime":1996.489,"body":"Baltimore, and plays and what's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1991.779,"endTime":1996.489,"body":"happening in LA, and kind of,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1997.509,"endTime":2000.4189999999999,"body":"kind of almost bringing it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1997.509,"endTime":2000.4189999999999,"body":"together. And let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2000.4189999999999,"endTime":2004.709,"body":"this idea of urban renewal,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2000.4189999999999,"endTime":2004.709,"body":"which is so American, I would"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2004.709,"endTime":2008.789,"body":"say as a, I mean, I am an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2004.709,"endTime":2008.789,"body":"American. Now, actually, as of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2008.789,"endTime":2011.819,"body":"last year, it took 15 years, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2008.789,"endTime":2011.819,"body":"I have the citizenship. So I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2011.819,"endTime":2014.849,"body":"can't say anymore like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2011.819,"endTime":2014.849,"body":"Americans, like there's somebody"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2014.849,"endTime":2017.099,"body":"else who was like, oh, no, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2014.849,"endTime":2017.099,"body":"couldn't vote now. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2017.099,"endTime":2021.779,"body":"citizen. So, but this idea of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2017.099,"endTime":2021.779,"body":"urban renewal is so fascinating"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2021.779,"endTime":2024.9289999999999,"body":"to me, right? Because it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2021.779,"endTime":2024.9289999999999,"body":"actually not a renewal. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2024.959,"endTime":2027.569,"body":"it's an often it's a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2024.959,"endTime":2027.569,"body":"distraction, it's a distraction"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2027.569,"endTime":2032.219,"body":"of communities, and distraction"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2027.569,"endTime":2032.219,"body":"of relationship. Like you said,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2032.249,"endTime":2039.749,"body":"like, you know, and farther"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2032.249,"endTime":2039.749,"body":"marginalizing, often those that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2039.749,"endTime":2044.609,"body":"have the least resources, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2039.749,"endTime":2044.609,"body":"yet it gets branded as renewal."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2044.789,"endTime":2048.869,"body":"And that's why I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2044.789,"endTime":2048.869,"body":"North American, I should say,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2048.869,"endTime":2051.689,"body":"actually, because I feel like in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2048.869,"endTime":2051.689,"body":"North America, that's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2051.689,"endTime":2058.439,"body":"rebranding that happens, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2051.689,"endTime":2058.439,"body":"It's it's like the, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2058.469,"endTime":2060.659,"body":"I don't want to get too"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2058.469,"endTime":2060.659,"body":"political. I know who am I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2060.659,"endTime":2063.149,"body":"kidding. I'm always political on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2060.659,"endTime":2063.149,"body":"this podcast. But you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2063.149,"endTime":2067.259,"body":"like pro life people. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2063.149,"endTime":2067.259,"body":"this is not pro life. It was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2067.259,"endTime":2070.589,"body":"like, right, it's like an urban"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2067.259,"endTime":2070.589,"body":"renewal. Right? Like, let's make"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2070.589,"endTime":2074.159,"body":"it sound nice. And like it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2070.589,"endTime":2074.159,"body":"positive, while we're actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2074.159,"endTime":2078.509,"body":"taking something away. Does that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2074.159,"endTime":2078.509,"body":"make sense? And so? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2078.929,"endTime":2079.919,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2080.94,"endTime":2086.19,"body":"Urban Renewal is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2080.94,"endTime":2086.19,"body":"governmental, racial control."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2086.3700000000003,"endTime":2086.94,"body":"Yes,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2086.9700000000003,"endTime":2088.5,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2086.9700000000003,"endTime":2088.5,"body":"definition."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2089.01,"endTime":2091.38,"body":"I mean, if you look"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2089.01,"endTime":2091.38,"body":"at the urban renewal projects"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2091.38,"endTime":2096.51,"body":"that existed across the United"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2091.38,"endTime":2096.51,"body":"States, what was deemed, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2096.51,"endTime":2100.77,"body":"know, this is a movement that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2096.51,"endTime":2100.77,"body":"really gets going in the late"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2100.77,"endTime":2106.59,"body":"30s, but mostly in the 50s. And"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2100.77,"endTime":2106.59,"body":"into the 60s and 70s, as we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2106.59,"endTime":2114.15,"body":"know, it almost always was black"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2106.59,"endTime":2114.15,"body":"and brown communities, despite"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2114.15,"endTime":2117.8700000000003,"body":"the fact that there were poor"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2114.15,"endTime":2117.8700000000003,"body":"white communities as well. But"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2117.8700000000003,"endTime":2122.46,"body":"it was it was almost always"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2117.8700000000003,"endTime":2122.46,"body":"black and brown communities that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2122.46,"endTime":2131.4,"body":"they deemed slums and the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2122.46,"endTime":2131.4,"body":"association to slum had to do"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2131.5800000000004,"endTime":2138.6000000000004,"body":"less with the Quality of housing"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2131.5800000000004,"endTime":2138.6000000000004,"body":"and the way the neighborhoods"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2138.6000000000004,"endTime":2147.9,"body":"looked or operated it, it had"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2138.6000000000004,"endTime":2147.9,"body":"more to do with this relativity"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2147.9300000000003,"endTime":2152.61,"body":"of property value. And in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2147.9300000000003,"endTime":2152.61,"body":"America, the fact that we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2152.61,"endTime":2158.9700000000003,"body":"speculate real estate the way we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2152.61,"endTime":2158.9700000000003,"body":"do, and how it still are is so"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2158.9700000000003,"endTime":2167.5800000000004,"body":"racialized. The fact that people"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2158.9700000000003,"endTime":2167.5800000000004,"body":"who are black or brown living in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2167.8500000000004,"endTime":2173.67,"body":"a community can actually reduce"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2167.8500000000004,"endTime":2173.67,"body":"the speculated value of a home"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2173.7000000000003,"endTime":2183.09,"body":"even today 2023 Is asinine, and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2173.7000000000003,"endTime":2183.09,"body":"it still is a reality. We it is,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2184.05,"endTime":2190.5600000000004,"body":"we, we put valuation based on"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2184.05,"endTime":2190.5600000000004,"body":"perception. So, urban renewal,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2190.77,"endTime":2197.5800000000004,"body":"is taking that to this scope,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2190.77,"endTime":2197.5800000000004,"body":"bronze level. And, again,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2198.9300000000003,"endTime":2206.28,"body":"erasing community relocating"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2198.9300000000003,"endTime":2206.28,"body":"and, and kind of dissipating any"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2206.28,"endTime":2214.59,"body":"sense of kind of core identity."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2206.28,"endTime":2214.59,"body":"That's what it it effort. No,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2214.59,"endTime":2219.9900000000002,"body":"it's effort was to do that. I,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2214.59,"endTime":2219.9900000000002,"body":"I'm sure that someone"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2219.9900000000002,"endTime":2224.3700000000003,"body":"rationalized and maybe even"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2219.9900000000002,"endTime":2224.3700000000003,"body":"believed that the urban renewal"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2224.3700000000003,"endTime":2230.1000000000004,"body":"projects and the latter half of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2224.3700000000003,"endTime":2230.1000000000004,"body":"the 20th century, were trying to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2230.1000000000004,"endTime":2240.7200000000003,"body":"do good, but I think there was"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2230.1000000000004,"endTime":2240.7200000000003,"body":"also very clear intent to, to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2240.7200000000003,"endTime":2245.28,"body":"racially dominate through a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2240.7200000000003,"endTime":2245.28,"body":"government program, very similar"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2245.28,"endTime":2248.25,"body":"to redlining, which was"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2245.28,"endTime":2248.25,"body":"happening in these"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2248.25,"endTime":2255.15,"body":"neighborhoods. And, and very, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2248.25,"endTime":2255.15,"body":"mean, there is no, there's no"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2255.15,"endTime":2257.79,"body":"surprise that a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2255.15,"endTime":2257.79,"body":"redlined neighborhoods were the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2257.79,"endTime":2262.0800000000004,"body":"ones that eventually became"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2257.79,"endTime":2262.0800000000004,"body":"targets for urban renewal. So it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2262.0800000000004,"endTime":2267.36,"body":"just made it easy to control."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2262.0800000000004,"endTime":2267.36,"body":"Black and brown folks, and in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2267.36,"endTime":2272.04,"body":"particular, black folks. You"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2267.36,"endTime":2272.04,"body":"know, and, and very much"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2272.04,"endTime":2278.8500000000004,"body":"Baltimore being, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2272.04,"endTime":2278.8500000000004,"body":"black majority city. It was was"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2278.8500000000004,"endTime":2279.8100000000004,"body":"subjected to that."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2281.01,"endTime":2283.5,"body":"Absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2281.01,"endTime":2283.5,"body":"think that's one of the pieces,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2283.5,"endTime":2287.6400000000003,"body":"right, it's like, calling it the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2283.5,"endTime":2287.6400000000003,"body":"perpetuation of racial"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2287.6400000000003,"endTime":2291.09,"body":"segregation is not going to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2287.6400000000003,"endTime":2291.09,"body":"real popular. But hey, if we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2291.09,"endTime":2293.7000000000003,"body":"call it urban renewal, then"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2291.09,"endTime":2293.7000000000003,"body":"we're putting this positive"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2293.7000000000003,"endTime":2298.2000000000003,"body":"spin. And that, to me does feel"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2293.7000000000003,"endTime":2298.2000000000003,"body":"like it's this legacy of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2298.2000000000003,"endTime":2301.98,"body":"colonialism, right? It's this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2298.2000000000003,"endTime":2301.98,"body":"legacy of anti blackness is this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2301.98,"endTime":2305.94,"body":"legacy, that shoe, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2301.98,"endTime":2305.94,"body":"getting repackage. And I totally"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2305.94,"endTime":2309.78,"body":"believe that some people might"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2305.94,"endTime":2309.78,"body":"buy the repackaging of that as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2309.78,"endTime":2314.76,"body":"something positive and renewing,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2309.78,"endTime":2314.76,"body":"right, refreshing and redeeming,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2314.76,"endTime":2319.86,"body":"but actually, behind that it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2314.76,"endTime":2319.86,"body":"this long legacy, of colonialism"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2319.8900000000003,"endTime":2324.1800000000003,"body":"of anti blackness of racial"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2319.8900000000003,"endTime":2324.1800000000003,"body":"segregation, that I think still"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2324.21,"endTime":2329.04,"body":"deeply impacts. I think every"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2324.21,"endTime":2329.04,"body":"city in the US I know, my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2329.04,"endTime":2332.25,"body":"experience in South Minneapolis"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2329.04,"endTime":2332.25,"body":"was definitely you could you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2332.25,"endTime":2335.55,"body":"could almost tell like, if you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2332.25,"endTime":2335.55,"body":"mapped like the redlining, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2335.55,"endTime":2339.21,"body":"know, those maps on to what was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2335.55,"endTime":2339.21,"body":"happening even in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2339.3900000000003,"endTime":2343.38,"body":"gentrification, where Fiber"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2339.3900000000003,"endTime":2343.38,"body":"Internet goes, or doesn't go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2343.38,"endTime":2347.94,"body":"right house prices, all of that,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2343.38,"endTime":2347.94,"body":"you can see it is so clear. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2347.94,"endTime":2351.9,"body":"yeah, it's almost like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2347.94,"endTime":2351.9,"body":"smokes and mirrors, right. Which"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2351.9,"endTime":2355.53,"body":"then, and there's so much more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2351.9,"endTime":2355.53,"body":"to say. And I think that's one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2355.53,"endTime":2359.67,"body":"of the things that writing can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2355.53,"endTime":2359.67,"body":"do sometimes is kind of open up"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2359.67,"endTime":2363.2400000000002,"body":"the curtains a little bit or try"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2359.67,"endTime":2363.2400000000002,"body":"to clear the smoking mirror. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2363.2400000000002,"endTime":2368.1600000000003,"body":"I think that that is one of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2363.2400000000002,"endTime":2368.1600000000003,"body":"themes in the book, too, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2368.1600000000003,"endTime":2372.8100000000004,"body":"It's like really kind of, let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2368.1600000000003,"endTime":2372.8100000000004,"body":"open this up a little bit more."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2372.8100000000004,"endTime":2376.05,"body":"And let's kind of see what's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2372.8100000000004,"endTime":2376.05,"body":"behind the carton or whichever"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2376.05,"endTime":2379.02,"body":"metaphor we want to use. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2376.05,"endTime":2379.02,"body":"mixing my metaphor between"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2379.02,"endTime":2381.69,"body":"cartons and smoke mirrors. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2379.02,"endTime":2381.69,"body":"you know what I'm trying to say"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2381.7200000000003,"endTime":2382.02,"body":"here?"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2383.19,"endTime":2385.1400000000003,"body":"Very much. Yes. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2385.1400000000003,"endTime":2388.0800000000004,"body":"like, I'm very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2385.1400000000003,"endTime":2388.0800000000004,"body":"bad. I'm mixing my metaphors. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2388.0800000000004,"endTime":2391.65,"body":"forgive me. I feel like I could"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2388.0800000000004,"endTime":2391.65,"body":"have this conversation for a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2391.65,"endTime":2394.44,"body":"long time. And I was like, Alex,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2391.65,"endTime":2394.44,"body":"look at your questions, because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2394.4700000000003,"endTime":2399.48,"body":"I want to be respectful of your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2394.4700000000003,"endTime":2399.48,"body":"time. But I feel like there are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2399.48,"endTime":2403.77,"body":"so many more conversations I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2399.48,"endTime":2403.77,"body":"could have about any of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2403.77,"endTime":2410.61,"body":"topics that we can have opened"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2403.77,"endTime":2410.61,"body":"up more. But is there anything"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2410.61,"endTime":2413.55,"body":"one of the questions I always"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2410.61,"endTime":2413.55,"body":"ask towards the end of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2413.5800000000004,"endTime":2417.57,"body":"interviews is, is there anything"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2413.5800000000004,"endTime":2417.57,"body":"we haven't talked about yet that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2417.57,"endTime":2421.1400000000003,"body":"you were hoping we will talk"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2417.57,"endTime":2421.1400000000003,"body":"about in this conversation?"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2422.73,"endTime":2426.8100000000004,"body":"Well, that's such"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2422.73,"endTime":2426.8100000000004,"body":"an interesting question to ask."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2429.9900000000002,"endTime":2440.34,"body":"I feel I'm in this this moment,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2429.9900000000002,"endTime":2440.34,"body":"this kind of impasse with, with"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2440.34,"endTime":2447.57,"body":"my writing. Because a lot of my"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2440.34,"endTime":2447.57,"body":"a lot of my work, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2447.57,"endTime":2454.38,"body":"four of my previous books have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2447.57,"endTime":2454.38,"body":"been so focused on creating"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2454.38,"endTime":2462.1200000000003,"body":"complicated characters that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2454.38,"endTime":2462.1200000000003,"body":"exist around issues that I think"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2462.1200000000003,"endTime":2468.21,"body":"a lot of readers feel they are"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2462.1200000000003,"endTime":2468.21,"body":"above, for example, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2468.21,"endTime":2473.79,"body":"the violence Almanac, all of the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2468.21,"endTime":2473.79,"body":"characters in, that are in these"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2473.79,"endTime":2479.6400000000003,"body":"stories are both recipients and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2473.79,"endTime":2479.6400000000003,"body":"perpetrators of violence. And I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2479.6400000000003,"endTime":2484.6800000000003,"body":"think a lot of times, especially"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2479.6400000000003,"endTime":2484.6800000000003,"body":"a reader, they feel that they"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2484.6800000000003,"endTime":2492.6000000000004,"body":"are more enlightened, to the, to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2484.6800000000003,"endTime":2492.6000000000004,"body":"the degree that they are above,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2492.9900000000002,"endTime":2498.6600000000003,"body":"you know, the, the degradation"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2492.9900000000002,"endTime":2498.6600000000003,"body":"of being violent, that they"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2498.6600000000003,"endTime":2502.4700000000003,"body":"somehow have been exonerated"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2498.6600000000003,"endTime":2502.4700000000003,"body":"because of their, their"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2502.4700000000003,"endTime":2509.55,"body":"education or the choices that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2502.4700000000003,"endTime":2509.55,"body":"they've made. And I've always"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2509.55,"endTime":2515.01,"body":"been very interested in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2509.55,"endTime":2515.01,"body":"demonstrating multi-dimensional"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2515.04,"endTime":2522.6000000000004,"body":"characters, but also to indict"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2515.04,"endTime":2522.6000000000004,"body":"the reader. And to remind them"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2522.6000000000004,"endTime":2528.09,"body":"that they are capable of justice"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2522.6000000000004,"endTime":2528.09,"body":"as devastating choices and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2528.09,"endTime":2532.3500000000004,"body":"actions as anyone that they"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2528.09,"endTime":2532.3500000000004,"body":"would vilify on social media,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2533.7000000000003,"endTime":2539.3700000000003,"body":"that we can all be pushed into a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2533.7000000000003,"endTime":2539.3700000000003,"body":"place of reprehensible behavior."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2540.0,"endTime":2545.9700000000003,"body":"And so that was what I have been"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2540.0,"endTime":2545.9700000000003,"body":"doing so much either examining"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2545.9700000000003,"endTime":2549.8700000000003,"body":"my own reprehensible behavior,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2545.9700000000003,"endTime":2549.8700000000003,"body":"or creating fictionalized"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2549.8700000000003,"endTime":2556.5600000000004,"body":"characters that surprise you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2549.8700000000003,"endTime":2556.5600000000004,"body":"with theirs. But I need to take"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2556.5600000000004,"endTime":2563.3100000000004,"body":"a break. From that I'm getting"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2556.5600000000004,"endTime":2563.3100000000004,"body":"it was very difficult work."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2563.3100000000004,"endTime":2567.3900000000003,"body":"Yeah, yeah, it was very"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2563.3100000000004,"endTime":2567.3900000000003,"body":"difficult to write the almanac,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2567.3900000000003,"endTime":2571.65,"body":"it was very difficult to write"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2567.3900000000003,"endTime":2571.65,"body":"American gospel. Even though"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2571.65,"endTime":2575.1600000000003,"body":"hopefully, we see, you know,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2571.65,"endTime":2575.1600000000003,"body":"see, we see some glimmers of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2575.1600000000003,"endTime":2581.07,"body":"hope and redemption in there."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2575.1600000000003,"endTime":2581.07,"body":"But now I'm, I'm working on a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2581.07,"endTime":2590.04,"body":"story very consciously. that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2581.07,"endTime":2590.04,"body":"conveys queer joy. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2590.04,"endTime":2596.7000000000003,"body":"wanting to write about two young"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2590.04,"endTime":2596.7000000000003,"body":"boys who may or may not be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2596.7000000000003,"endTime":2602.52,"body":"queer, they're, they're 12 years"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2596.7000000000003,"endTime":2602.52,"body":"old. And it's just about a deep,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2603.0600000000004,"endTime":2608.4900000000002,"body":"soulful friendship that they"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2603.0600000000004,"endTime":2608.4900000000002,"body":"possess. And I'm leaving it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2608.4900000000002,"endTime":2612.8100000000004,"body":"ambiguous, you know, what their,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2608.4900000000002,"endTime":2612.8100000000004,"body":"what their sexual identity is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2612.8100000000004,"endTime":2618.2400000000002,"body":"largely because I'm tired of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2612.8100000000004,"endTime":2618.2400000000002,"body":"those identifiers, right. And"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2618.51,"endTime":2626.4900000000002,"body":"just trying to recreate and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2618.51,"endTime":2626.4900000000002,"body":"capture how soulful we are even"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2626.4900000000002,"endTime":2632.1600000000003,"body":"as a 12 year old, how romantic"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2626.4900000000002,"endTime":2632.1600000000003,"body":"we can be, how, how full of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2632.1600000000003,"endTime":2638.2200000000003,"body":"tenderness we are, and how we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2632.1600000000003,"endTime":2638.2200000000003,"body":"become socialized, especially"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2638.2200000000003,"endTime":2644.4,"body":"within contemporary American"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2638.2200000000003,"endTime":2644.4,"body":"masculinity, you begin to lose"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2644.4,"endTime":2650.67,"body":"that tenderness to somehow"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2644.4,"endTime":2650.67,"body":"conform. But I'm focusing on the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2650.76,"endTime":2657.75,"body":"beauty of it. So I hope that you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2650.76,"endTime":2657.75,"body":"would read that story because I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2657.75,"endTime":2661.8300000000004,"body":"feel like I'm exploring gender"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2657.75,"endTime":2661.8300000000004,"body":"in a, in a more pure way, in a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2661.8300000000004,"endTime":2667.8300000000004,"body":"less political way, in a more"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2661.8300000000004,"endTime":2667.8300000000004,"body":"spiritual way. And I'm excited"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2667.8300000000004,"endTime":2668.88,"body":"to finish that novel."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2669.96,"endTime":2671.82,"body":"That's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2669.96,"endTime":2671.82,"body":"I'm excited for you to finish"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2671.82,"endTime":2676.1400000000003,"body":"that novel. So I can read it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2671.82,"endTime":2676.1400000000003,"body":"absolutely. 100%. I think, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2676.1400000000003,"endTime":2679.05,"body":"know, sometimes when I look at"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2676.1400000000003,"endTime":2679.05,"body":"like younger people, or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2679.05,"endTime":2683.76,"body":"children, like just the way that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2679.05,"endTime":2683.76,"body":"they can express things is so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2683.76,"endTime":2686.82,"body":"different than adults. And so I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2683.76,"endTime":2686.82,"body":"also love that those characters"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2686.82,"endTime":2689.8500000000004,"body":"are 12 that you're writing,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2686.82,"endTime":2689.8500000000004,"body":"right? When I look back, and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2689.8500000000004,"endTime":2693.54,"body":"think about just the pure, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2689.8500000000004,"endTime":2693.54,"body":"I didn't know anything about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2693.54,"endTime":2695.94,"body":"queerness and there wasn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2693.54,"endTime":2695.94,"body":"anything sexual, but just the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2695.94,"endTime":2700.8,"body":"pure kind of friendships and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2695.94,"endTime":2700.8,"body":"closeness. I remember, like, as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2700.8,"endTime":2704.6400000000003,"body":"a teenager getting this, what I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2700.8,"endTime":2704.6400000000003,"body":"now realized was a love poem"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2704.6400000000003,"endTime":2709.26,"body":"from a neighbor. When I was the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2704.6400000000003,"endTime":2709.26,"body":"same gender as me at the time."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2709.29,"endTime":2713.1600000000003,"body":"That's the best way I can put"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2709.29,"endTime":2713.1600000000003,"body":"it. You know, we had the same"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2713.1600000000003,"endTime":2716.4900000000002,"body":"gender assigned at birth, let's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2713.1600000000003,"endTime":2716.4900000000002,"body":"put it that way. And that but I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2716.4900000000002,"endTime":2719.94,"body":"didn't see it as sexual at the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2716.4900000000002,"endTime":2719.94,"body":"time, right or anything to do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2719.94,"endTime":2723.57,"body":"with sexuality was just this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2719.94,"endTime":2723.57,"body":"expression of pure friendship"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2723.57,"endTime":2727.05,"body":"and closeness and, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2723.57,"endTime":2727.05,"body":"admiration and connection."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2727.05,"endTime":2729.8100000000004,"body":"Right. And I think that we need"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2727.05,"endTime":2729.8100000000004,"body":"so much more of that in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2729.8100000000004,"endTime":2730.32,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2731.2400000000002,"endTime":2735.4100000000003,"body":"Due to I think we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2731.2400000000002,"endTime":2735.4100000000003,"body":"need more romance. And the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2735.4100000000003,"endTime":2739.67,"body":"romance doesn't need to be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2735.4100000000003,"endTime":2739.67,"body":"relegated to a sexual partner."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2740.0600000000004,"endTime":2746.09,"body":"We, we can be romantic with so"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2740.0600000000004,"endTime":2746.09,"body":"many people. And I think we have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2746.09,"endTime":2752.03,"body":"that inherently in us. And it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2746.09,"endTime":2752.03,"body":"gets buffed out by what is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2752.03,"endTime":2754.67,"body":"considered proper and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2752.03,"endTime":2754.67,"body":"acceptable,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2754.9100000000003,"endTime":2758.03,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2754.9100000000003,"endTime":2758.03,"body":"Absolutely. I mean, I'm all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2758.03,"endTime":2762.4100000000003,"body":"about like, being just loving"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2758.03,"endTime":2762.4100000000003,"body":"and romantic like, with your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2762.4100000000003,"endTime":2766.4,"body":"friends, and but also with your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2762.4100000000003,"endTime":2766.4,"body":"community, I have so much love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2766.67,"endTime":2770.03,"body":"for my communities, right. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2766.67,"endTime":2770.03,"body":"think I love that you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2770.03,"endTime":2772.7000000000003,"body":"hope, actually, I was going to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2770.03,"endTime":2772.7000000000003,"body":"talk to you about hope. And then"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2772.7000000000003,"endTime":2774.8300000000004,"body":"I forgot, because we were"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2772.7000000000003,"endTime":2774.8300000000004,"body":"talking about so many other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2774.8300000000004,"endTime":2778.19,"body":"beautiful things, that maybe"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2774.8300000000004,"endTime":2778.19,"body":"that's a good place to kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2778.2200000000003,"endTime":2782.15,"body":"end on, which is like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2778.2200000000003,"endTime":2782.15,"body":"I love that you feel called to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2782.15,"endTime":2785.54,"body":"tell this different story. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2782.15,"endTime":2785.54,"body":"focused on queer joy. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2785.54,"endTime":2791.15,"body":"think there is hope in American"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2785.54,"endTime":2791.15,"body":"gospel as well. And but how do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2791.15,"endTime":2795.92,"body":"you find hope and joy in your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2791.15,"endTime":2795.92,"body":"own life in this particular"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2795.92,"endTime":2799.94,"body":"moment, which feels really hard"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2795.92,"endTime":2799.94,"body":"to a lot of people in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2799.94,"endTime":2804.17,"body":"different ways. And so I've been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2799.94,"endTime":2804.17,"body":"asking a lot, actually, in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2804.17,"endTime":2809.1200000000003,"body":"last couple of months, to all of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2804.17,"endTime":2809.1200000000003,"body":"my guests like, how are you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2809.1200000000003,"endTime":2812.6000000000004,"body":"finding hope and joy and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2809.1200000000003,"endTime":2812.6000000000004,"body":"connection in your life at the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2812.6000000000004,"endTime":2814.1600000000003,"body":"moment? Okay."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2815.3,"endTime":2818.15,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2815.3,"endTime":2818.15,"body":"twofold. So I've laid the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2818.15,"endTime":2821.69,"body":"groundwork, in case I get lost,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2818.15,"endTime":2821.69,"body":"you can say there was a second"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2821.69,"endTime":2830.9,"body":"thing. First off, I'm a teacher."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2821.69,"endTime":2830.9,"body":"And, you know, I teach, I teach"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2830.9,"endTime":2838.4300000000003,"body":"creative writing, and decolonial"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2830.9,"endTime":2838.4300000000003,"body":"studies, and I love teaching, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2838.4300000000003,"endTime":2841.79,"body":"love facilitating a classroom, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2838.4300000000003,"endTime":2841.79,"body":"love learning from my students,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2842.0,"endTime":2846.8300000000004,"body":"I love that engagement is full"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2842.0,"endTime":2846.8300000000004,"body":"of joy and love, we want to be"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2846.8300000000004,"endTime":2853.61,"body":"there. We love sharing the space"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2846.8300000000004,"endTime":2853.61,"body":"with one another. And I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2853.61,"endTime":2861.7400000000002,"body":"can't I can't say anything about"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2853.61,"endTime":2861.7400000000002,"body":"teaching. That even remotely"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2861.7400000000002,"endTime":2867.0800000000004,"body":"gets close to negative. I love"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2861.7400000000002,"endTime":2867.0800000000004,"body":"what I do for a living. I'm so"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2867.0800000000004,"endTime":2871.4300000000003,"body":"grateful for that. And, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2867.0800000000004,"endTime":2871.4300000000003,"body":"know, the students keep me"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2871.9100000000003,"endTime":2877.3700000000003,"body":"abreast about where they are and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2871.9100000000003,"endTime":2877.3700000000003,"body":"the way they operate in the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2877.3700000000003,"endTime":2881.84,"body":"world. So I don't get siloed in"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2877.3700000000003,"endTime":2881.84,"body":"my own age and experience,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2882.1400000000003,"endTime":2886.67,"body":"because the students constantly"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2882.1400000000003,"endTime":2886.67,"body":"come and go, and, you know, I'm,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2886.88,"endTime":2891.59,"body":"I'm working with them, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2886.88,"endTime":2891.59,"body":"seeing the changes and the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2891.59,"endTime":2897.8300000000004,"body":"perspective. You know, that's"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2891.59,"endTime":2897.8300000000004,"body":"local, but maybe also reflects"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2897.8300000000004,"endTime":2902.8100000000004,"body":"more of a national kind of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2897.8300000000004,"endTime":2902.8100000000004,"body":"trend, right. And I learned so"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2902.8100000000004,"endTime":2908.27,"body":"much from that. It's, it keeps"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2902.8100000000004,"endTime":2908.27,"body":"me open. So that's one way, I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2908.27,"endTime":2912.11,"body":"have a lot of hope with that. I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2908.27,"endTime":2912.11,"body":"think the other way I cultivate"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2912.11,"endTime":2920.7200000000003,"body":"Joy and Hope is just despite"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2912.11,"endTime":2920.7200000000003,"body":"some of these, I mean, terrible"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2920.75,"endTime":2926.63,"body":"happenings around the world."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2920.75,"endTime":2926.63,"body":"And, I mean, I don't even need"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2926.63,"endTime":2932.09,"body":"to list them, we know them and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2926.63,"endTime":2932.09,"body":"they weigh on us so much. But I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2932.09,"endTime":2936.86,"body":"think they weigh on us, Alex,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2932.09,"endTime":2936.86,"body":"because we are actually moving"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2936.8900000000003,"endTime":2941.78,"body":"in the right direction. I really"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2936.8900000000003,"endTime":2941.78,"body":"believe that humanity is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2941.78,"endTime":2949.7000000000003,"body":"beginning to get exhausted by"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2941.78,"endTime":2949.7000000000003,"body":"its own colonial tendency, and,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2951.05,"endTime":2957.4700000000003,"body":"and the harm and the violence"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2951.05,"endTime":2957.4700000000003,"body":"and the degradation that we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2957.4700000000003,"endTime":2962.75,"body":"exact upon one another. I think"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2957.4700000000003,"endTime":2962.75,"body":"we have a long way to go, but"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2962.75,"endTime":2967.88,"body":"we're getting closer to it,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2962.75,"endTime":2967.88,"body":"which is why we feel the despair"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2967.88,"endTime":2973.3100000000004,"body":"so much more. You know, we have"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2967.88,"endTime":2973.3100000000004,"body":"always been a warring culture. I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2973.3100000000004,"endTime":2976.7000000000003,"body":"mean, I'll just speak for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2973.3100000000004,"endTime":2976.7000000000003,"body":"America and maybe the West, by"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2976.7000000000003,"endTime":2980.3900000000003,"body":"extension, we have always been a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2976.7000000000003,"endTime":2980.3900000000003,"body":"warring culture, there has"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2980.42,"endTime":2988.9700000000003,"body":"always been conflict and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2980.42,"endTime":2988.9700000000003,"body":"violence. But we used to as a,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2989.21,"endTime":2995.2400000000002,"body":"as a society, we endorsed it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2989.21,"endTime":2995.2400000000002,"body":"more. Yeah. And I feel like we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2995.2400000000002,"endTime":2998.75,"body":"just don't as much anymore."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2995.2400000000002,"endTime":2998.75,"body":"There. Obviously there are"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2999.11,"endTime":3002.65,"body":"exceptions to that. But I think"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":2999.11,"endTime":3002.65,"body":"generally, you know, if we"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3002.65,"endTime":3007.15,"body":"really hold back and look, more"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3002.65,"endTime":3007.15,"body":"and more people are tired of it,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3007.42,"endTime":3011.8,"body":"that the violence is not worth"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3007.42,"endTime":3011.8,"body":"whatever resourceful gain that"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3011.8,"endTime":3017.59,"body":"we get, or nationalistic need,"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3011.8,"endTime":3017.59,"body":"you know, quote unquote need. I"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3017.59,"endTime":3022.3900000000003,"body":"feel like that exhaustion is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3017.59,"endTime":3022.3900000000003,"body":"actually a compassion that is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3022.3900000000003,"endTime":3026.59,"body":"emerging, and I do believe"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3022.3900000000003,"endTime":3026.59,"body":"probably not in our lifetime."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3027.07,"endTime":3030.1000000000004,"body":"But I do believe that we are"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3027.07,"endTime":3030.1000000000004,"body":"finally going to get to a place"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3030.52,"endTime":3038.05,"body":"where we understand that equity"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3030.52,"endTime":3038.05,"body":"Is is going to create peace. And"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3038.05,"endTime":3042.1000000000004,"body":"people will be willing to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3038.05,"endTime":3042.1000000000004,"body":"sacrifice their goddamn picket"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3042.1000000000004,"endTime":3049.1200000000003,"body":"fences. So that we can coexist."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3042.1000000000004,"endTime":3049.1200000000003,"body":"I do believe that we're moving"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3049.15,"endTime":3054.5800000000004,"body":"in that direction with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3049.15,"endTime":3054.5800000000004,"body":"with a lot of hiccups along the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3054.5800000000004,"endTime":3054.88,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3055.75,"endTime":3060.3100000000004,"body":"It's never easy,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3055.75,"endTime":3060.3100000000004,"body":"right? That I felt pretty teary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3060.3100000000004,"endTime":3063.73,"body":"when you talked about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3060.3100000000004,"endTime":3063.73,"body":"exhaustion, exhaustion being the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3063.73,"endTime":3067.03,"body":"sign of emerging compassion. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3063.73,"endTime":3067.03,"body":"I think I really needed to hear"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3067.03,"endTime":3069.94,"body":"that, because this year has been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3067.03,"endTime":3069.94,"body":"so exhausting. And all I hear"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3069.94,"endTime":3072.25,"body":"from people, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3069.94,"endTime":3072.25,"body":"clients, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3072.25,"endTime":3075.88,"body":"supervisees, as a therapist, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3072.25,"endTime":3075.88,"body":"supervise a lot of younger"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3075.88,"endTime":3080.44,"body":"clinicians as they exhaustion."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3075.88,"endTime":3080.44,"body":"But I love that framing and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3080.44,"endTime":3083.86,"body":"reframing as we would say, in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3080.44,"endTime":3083.86,"body":"therapy, World of exhaustion as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3083.86,"endTime":3087.4900000000002,"body":"emerging compassion. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3083.86,"endTime":3087.4900000000002,"body":"agree, I think that people are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3087.4900000000002,"endTime":3091.4500000000003,"body":"more tired than they used to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3087.4900000000002,"endTime":3091.4500000000003,"body":"of violence and power over."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3092.6200000000003,"endTime":3095.11,"body":"I think we have to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3092.6200000000003,"endTime":3095.11,"body":"believe that anyway, if we're"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3095.11,"endTime":3100.15,"body":"going to, if we are going to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3095.11,"endTime":3100.15,"body":"progress into a more kind and"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3100.15,"endTime":3108.28,"body":"compassionate society, right? We"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3100.15,"endTime":3108.28,"body":"have to if we, if we just revel"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3108.28,"endTime":3112.0,"body":"in the despair, we'll give up."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3108.28,"endTime":3112.0,"body":"And then we're certainly not"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3112.57,"endTime":3114.73,"body":"making changes, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3115.3300000000004,"endTime":3118.36,"body":"Yeah, my friend,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3115.3300000000004,"endTime":3118.36,"body":"Donald Engstrom- Reese says"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3118.36,"endTime":3121.9300000000003,"body":"that, you know, when most of us"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3118.36,"endTime":3121.9300000000003,"body":"can't afford despair, despair is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3121.9300000000003,"endTime":3126.1600000000003,"body":"just for the bourgeois, and most"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3121.9300000000003,"endTime":3126.1600000000003,"body":"of us cannot afford to despair."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3126.1600000000003,"endTime":3130.7200000000003,"body":"And so we have to embrace joy,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3126.1600000000003,"endTime":3130.7200000000003,"body":"and where joy and connection and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3131.23,"endTime":3134.9500000000003,"body":"so I love, I love that we are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3131.23,"endTime":3134.9500000000003,"body":"ending on this note of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3135.4300000000003,"endTime":3140.6800000000003,"body":"exhaustion, as emerging"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3135.4300000000003,"endTime":3140.6800000000003,"body":"compassion is so beautiful. Like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3140.6800000000003,"endTime":3143.6200000000003,"body":"I said, I could keep having this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3140.6800000000003,"endTime":3143.6200000000003,"body":"conversation, but I want to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3143.6200000000003,"endTime":3145.96,"body":"respectful of your time. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3143.6200000000003,"endTime":3145.96,"body":"maybe we'll just have to have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3145.96,"endTime":3148.75,"body":"another conversation about queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3145.96,"endTime":3148.75,"body":"joy when your new book comes"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3148.75,"endTime":3154.0,"body":"out. I would love that. I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3148.75,"endTime":3154.0,"body":"repeat guests. So just planting"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3154.0,"endTime":3159.04,"body":"this seed. But if people for now"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3154.0,"endTime":3159.04,"body":"want to find American gospel or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3159.04,"endTime":3162.1000000000004,"body":"your other writing, where should"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3159.04,"endTime":3162.1000000000004,"body":"the Find your work?"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3163.7000000000003,"endTime":3168.4100000000003,"body":"You could go to"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3163.7000000000003,"endTime":3168.4100000000003,"body":"local bookstores. But if if you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3168.4100000000003,"endTime":3173.4500000000003,"body":"got to do it in the internet"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3168.4100000000003,"endTime":3173.4500000000003,"body":"way, go to book shop.org. It is"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3173.4500000000003,"endTime":3177.86,"body":"basically the Amazon for"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3173.4500000000003,"endTime":3177.86,"body":"independent bookstores. And it"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3177.86,"endTime":3181.5800000000004,"body":"puts money back into the"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3177.86,"endTime":3181.5800000000004,"body":"bookstores hands. Stay away from"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3181.5800000000004,"endTime":3182.54,"body":"Amazon."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3185.48,"endTime":3188.03,"body":"I love ending on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3185.48,"endTime":3188.03,"body":"the anti capitalist message."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3188.0600000000004,"endTime":3191.9,"body":"Yes, go to bookshop.org you can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3188.0600000000004,"endTime":3191.9,"body":"even pick like your local"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3191.9,"endTime":3195.6800000000003,"body":"independent bookstore or your or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3191.9,"endTime":3195.6800000000003,"body":"whichever independent bookstore"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3195.6800000000003,"endTime":3199.7000000000003,"body":"you want in the country. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3195.6800000000003,"endTime":3199.7000000000003,"body":"absolutely. And I think there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3199.7000000000003,"endTime":3202.67,"body":"a UK version too, because I know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3199.7000000000003,"endTime":3202.67,"body":"I've got some listeners in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3202.67,"endTime":3206.8100000000004,"body":"UK. So bookshop that are getting"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3202.67,"endTime":3206.8100000000004,"body":"dizzy, both the US and the UK"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3206.8100000000004,"endTime":3210.7400000000002,"body":"store, I believe so absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3206.8100000000004,"endTime":3210.7400000000002,"body":"Stay away from Amazon. Do you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3210.7400000000002,"endTime":3213.59,"body":"have a website or any social"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3210.7400000000002,"endTime":3213.59,"body":"media that you want to put out"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3213.59,"endTime":3213.92,"body":"there?"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3214.6400000000003,"endTime":3219.02,"body":"Sure. It's not a"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3214.6400000000003,"endTime":3219.02,"body":"very good one. But it's there."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3219.59,"endTime":3223.4,"body":"It's www.miahjeffra.com."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3225.92,"endTime":3229.07,"body":"That's great. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3225.92,"endTime":3229.07,"body":"will make sure that's also all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3229.07,"endTime":3232.82,"body":"in the episode description. With"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3229.07,"endTime":3232.82,"body":"thank you so much for this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3232.82,"endTime":3236.9300000000003,"body":"wonderful conversation about so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3232.82,"endTime":3236.9300000000003,"body":"many things. I feel like we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3236.9300000000003,"endTime":3240.11,"body":"could have kept talking for four"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3236.9300000000003,"endTime":3240.11,"body":"hours. Maybe it's just me, but I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3240.11,"endTime":3244.79,"body":"will not do that to you or the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3240.11,"endTime":3244.79,"body":"listeners. So I look forward to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3244.79,"endTime":3249.32,"body":"talking more about pure joy next"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3244.79,"endTime":3249.32,"body":"time maybe. And thank you so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3249.32,"endTime":3252.6200000000003,"body":"much for being on Tinder stories"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3249.32,"endTime":3252.6200000000003,"body":"today. My so appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3252.65,"endTime":3254.6000000000004,"body":"Thank you Alex, you"},{"speaker":"Miah Jeffra","startTime":3252.65,"endTime":3254.6000000000004,"body":"made my afternoon."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3255.0800000000004,"endTime":3258.23,"body":"Oh, that's great."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3255.0800000000004,"endTime":3258.23,"body":"And to you gender stories"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3258.23,"endTime":3265.04,"body":"listeners, as always my immense"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3258.23,"endTime":3265.04,"body":"gratitude for listening to our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3265.04,"endTime":3268.3700000000003,"body":"podcast and or watching it on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3265.04,"endTime":3268.3700000000003,"body":"YouTube. Now the some of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3268.3700000000003,"endTime":3272.42,"body":"episodes are on YouTube as well."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3268.3700000000003,"endTime":3272.42,"body":"And please let me know what you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3272.42,"endTime":3275.84,"body":"would like to listen to in 2024."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3272.42,"endTime":3275.84,"body":"I'm getting ready for the next"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3275.84,"endTime":3279.17,"body":"season. So if you want to drop"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3275.84,"endTime":3279.17,"body":"me an email and let me know who"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3279.17,"endTime":3282.4700000000003,"body":"you'd like me to interview or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3279.17,"endTime":3282.4700000000003,"body":"which of your topics you'd like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3282.4700000000003,"endTime":3286.73,"body":"me to cover. Until next time, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3282.4700000000003,"endTime":3286.73,"body":"hope you can find some ways to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3286.73,"endTime":3290.9900000000002,"body":"embrace joy and compassion and"}]}