{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":36.349999999999994,"endTime":38.619,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":36.349999999999994,"endTime":38.619,"body":"welcome to another episode of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":38.675999999999995,"endTime":41.967999999999996,"body":"gender stories. As usual, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":38.675999999999995,"endTime":41.967999999999996,"body":"always say that I'm excited by"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":42.024,"endTime":45.372,"body":"it because I am truly excited"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":42.024,"endTime":45.372,"body":"every time and today I'm very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":45.428999999999995,"endTime":48.494,"body":"excited to be with Laura"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":45.428999999999995,"endTime":48.494,"body":"Scarrone and Michael Beattie,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":48.55,"endTime":51.955,"body":"who, alongside Skye Davis have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":48.55,"endTime":51.955,"body":"authored this wonderful book,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":52.012,"endTime":55.417,"body":"gender affirming therapy that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":52.012,"endTime":55.417,"body":"has been published by the Open"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":55.474,"endTime":58.992,"body":"University Press, and Skye's now"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":55.474,"endTime":58.992,"body":"with us today. But I have the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":59.04899999999999,"endTime":62.339999999999996,"body":"privilege to talk to Laura and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":59.04899999999999,"endTime":62.339999999999996,"body":"Michael today. And I'm just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":62.397,"endTime":65.518,"body":"going to let you know about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":62.397,"endTime":65.518,"body":"their wonderful work. Laura"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":65.57499999999999,"endTime":68.753,"body":"Scarrone Bonhomme is a console"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":65.57499999999999,"endTime":68.753,"body":"clinical psychologist who"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":68.809,"endTime":72.214,"body":"specializes in gender sexual and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":68.809,"endTime":72.214,"body":"relationship diversity. She"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":72.27099999999999,"endTime":75.16499999999999,"body":"provides assessments,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":72.27099999999999,"endTime":75.16499999999999,"body":"psychotherapy and training to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":75.222,"endTime":78.68299999999999,"body":"other professionals through a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":75.222,"endTime":78.68299999999999,"body":"firm LGBT. And we'll talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":78.74,"endTime":81.975,"body":"that wonderful online training"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":78.74,"endTime":81.975,"body":"platform that both you and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":82.032,"endTime":85.436,"body":"Michael are involved in as we go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":82.032,"endTime":85.436,"body":"today. And then Dr. Michael"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":85.493,"endTime":88.728,"body":"Beattie, is a counseling"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":85.493,"endTime":88.728,"body":"psychologist in private practice"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":88.785,"endTime":91.735,"body":"with research interests in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":88.785,"endTime":91.735,"body":"psychology of men and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":91.792,"endTime":95.25399999999999,"body":"masculinities. In addition to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":91.792,"endTime":95.25399999999999,"body":"psychotherapy, Michael provides"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":95.311,"endTime":98.715,"body":"training in gender sexual and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":95.311,"endTime":98.715,"body":"relationship diversity through"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":98.77199999999999,"endTime":102.00699999999999,"body":"the same platform, a fair"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":98.77199999999999,"endTime":102.00699999999999,"body":"majority, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":102.064,"endTime":103.88,"body":"making time to be with us today."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":104.66,"endTime":108.35,"body":"Thank you, Alex is lovely"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":104.66,"endTime":108.35,"body":"to you know, after so many"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":108.38,"endTime":113.99,"body":"emails exchange, to be able to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":108.38,"endTime":113.99,"body":"see you and to talk to you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":113.99,"endTime":117.17,"body":"directly. And I think that the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":113.99,"endTime":117.17,"body":"the first thing would like to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":117.17,"endTime":120.86,"body":"start really, is to think of you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":117.17,"endTime":120.86,"body":"because you wrote the foreword,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":121.13,"endTime":125.66,"body":"for our book, and it was very,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":121.13,"endTime":125.66,"body":"very important for us to, first"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":125.66,"endTime":129.26,"body":"of all, to get such a heartfelt"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":125.66,"endTime":129.26,"body":"piece of writing from you and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":129.26,"endTime":134.78,"body":"such validation from you. But"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":129.26,"endTime":134.78,"body":"also, you know, thank you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":134.78,"endTime":138.5,"body":"because both Michael and myself"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":134.78,"endTime":138.5,"body":"and I know as well Skye have"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":138.5,"endTime":142.55,"body":"been following your career and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":138.5,"endTime":142.55,"body":"your writing career. And it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":142.55,"endTime":147.47,"body":"been really inspirational to us"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":142.55,"endTime":147.47,"body":"to see how you use vulnerability"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":147.47,"endTime":150.89,"body":"as a superpower in your work."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":147.47,"endTime":150.89,"body":"And I think that's very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":150.89,"endTime":155.03,"body":"difficult for us sometimes, as a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":150.89,"endTime":155.03,"body":"psychologist who have been"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":155.03,"endTime":158.63,"body":"taught not to self disclose"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":155.03,"endTime":158.63,"body":"anything about ourselves. But"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":158.63,"endTime":163.73000000000002,"body":"also, in such a politically"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":158.63,"endTime":163.73000000000002,"body":"heated environment, to be able"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":163.73000000000002,"endTime":167.32999999999998,"body":"to be vulnerable is very, very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":163.73000000000002,"endTime":167.32999999999998,"body":"difficult. So you are doing a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":167.42000000000002,"endTime":171.2,"body":"excellent modeling for for the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":167.42000000000002,"endTime":171.2,"body":"rest of us. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":172.63,"endTime":175.42000000000002,"body":"I'm gonna just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":172.63,"endTime":175.42000000000002,"body":"take that in, practicing to take"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":175.42000000000002,"endTime":177.73000000000002,"body":"it in, when people give you a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":175.42000000000002,"endTime":177.73000000000002,"body":"compliment, you know, to say,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":177.73000000000002,"endTime":180.49,"body":"thank you, you don't have to,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":177.73000000000002,"endTime":180.49,"body":"like you know, deflect or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":180.49,"endTime":184.75,"body":"anything. So, just let that soak"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":180.49,"endTime":184.75,"body":"in? Well, I did really enjoy"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":184.75,"endTime":187.26999999999998,"body":"writing the foreword for your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":184.75,"endTime":187.26999999999998,"body":"book, and I felt very grateful"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":187.3,"endTime":190.54000000000002,"body":"that you've asked me, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":187.3,"endTime":190.54000000000002,"body":"and I definitely want to talk"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":190.54000000000002,"endTime":193.39,"body":"about the current political"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":190.54000000000002,"endTime":193.39,"body":"climate. But let's start from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":193.39,"endTime":198.10000000000002,"body":"the book, first of all, and why"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":193.39,"endTime":198.10000000000002,"body":"did you feel this book was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":198.13,"endTime":201.76,"body":"needed? Let's just start, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":198.13,"endTime":201.76,"body":"know, people decide to write"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":201.76,"endTime":204.76,"body":"books for sorts of reasons. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":201.76,"endTime":204.76,"body":"I'm always fascinated, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":204.79000000000002,"endTime":208.3,"body":"what made you go into writing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":204.79000000000002,"endTime":208.3,"body":"this book, because writing a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":208.3,"endTime":212.05,"body":"book is the project, right? A"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":208.3,"endTime":212.05,"body":"lot of people think about it, a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":212.05,"endTime":215.44,"body":"lot of people might even start"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":212.05,"endTime":215.44,"body":"it, but it is a project to go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":215.44,"endTime":219.45999999999998,"body":"from start to finish to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":215.44,"endTime":219.45999999999998,"body":"publication. So yeah, what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":219.45999999999998,"endTime":221.23000000000002,"body":"inspired you to write the book?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":222.24,"endTime":228.36,"body":"So Michael had already"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":222.24,"endTime":228.36,"body":"written an excellent clinical"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":228.36,"endTime":231.39,"body":"guide on supporting trans and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":228.36,"endTime":231.39,"body":"non binary people counseling"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":231.39,"endTime":234.51,"body":"skills. For Michael, do you know"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":231.39,"endTime":234.51,"body":"the title of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":233.8,"endTime":238.39,"body":"the title, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":233.8,"endTime":238.39,"body":"counseling skills for working"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":238.39,"endTime":242.46999999999997,"body":"with gender, gender identity and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":238.39,"endTime":242.46999999999997,"body":"gender diversity, I think or the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":242.46999999999997,"endTime":251.76999999999998,"body":"other way around, It's carried"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":242.46999999999997,"endTime":251.76999999999998,"body":"at all good bookstores. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":251.8,"endTime":253.99,"body":"I remember, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":251.8,"endTime":253.99,"body":"been a minute."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":257.13,"endTime":259.74,"body":"But I hadn't had the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":257.13,"endTime":259.74,"body":"chance to write a book, I had"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":259.74,"endTime":264.36,"body":"done some research and some"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":259.74,"endTime":264.36,"body":"exploratory material on the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":264.36,"endTime":267.51,"body":"relationship that transcend"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":264.36,"endTime":267.51,"body":"memory fog form with a mirror."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":267.78,"endTime":274.23,"body":"And I felt from my end what it"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":267.78,"endTime":274.23,"body":"was lacking is to find something"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":274.26,"endTime":277.89,"body":"that was a bit more personal. I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":274.26,"endTime":277.89,"body":"think that there was a lot more"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":278.19,"endTime":283.71,"body":"clinical and dry content out"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":278.19,"endTime":283.71,"body":"there. But I wanted to find the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":284.28,"endTime":290.13,"body":"sort of the, the Esther Perel,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":284.28,"endTime":290.13,"body":"or the , or the Kerouac of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":290.16,"endTime":293.13,"body":"gender therapy, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":290.16,"endTime":293.13,"body":"this is not to me, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":293.61,"endTime":296.85,"body":"bringing my ego up. But this is"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":293.61,"endTime":296.85,"body":"like the modeling of the things"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":296.85,"endTime":301.47,"body":"that I wanted to be able to find"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":296.85,"endTime":301.47,"body":"as a clinician, both Michael and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":301.47,"endTime":306.36,"body":"myself, worked at the gender"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":301.47,"endTime":306.36,"body":"identity clinic in London, and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":306.36,"endTime":309.57,"body":"that's how we met. And, you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":306.36,"endTime":309.57,"body":"know, thinking about the sort of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":309.57,"endTime":313.26,"body":"support that was available at"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":309.57,"endTime":313.26,"body":"the time, it was religious, sit"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":313.26,"endTime":316.83,"body":"with this clinician and learn"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":313.26,"endTime":316.83,"body":"what you can. But many times"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":316.83,"endTime":319.89,"body":"people ask what kind of books"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":316.83,"endTime":319.89,"body":"can I read tonight? I felt like"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":319.89,"endTime":322.98,"body":"that there weren't that many"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":319.89,"endTime":322.98,"body":"that could encompass these"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":323.01,"endTime":327.6,"body":"elements. So after we delivered"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":323.01,"endTime":327.6,"body":"a training session for the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":327.6,"endTime":330.81,"body":"British Psychological Society, I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":327.6,"endTime":330.81,"body":"was approached and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":330.81,"endTime":335.28000000000003,"body":"Yeah, I know the book. I would"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":330.81,"endTime":335.28000000000003,"body":"like us to write And knowing in"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":335.28000000000003,"endTime":338.67,"body":"Michael's experience and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":335.28000000000003,"endTime":338.67,"body":"excellent ability with words,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":338.85,"endTime":341.67,"body":"particularly as a non native"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":338.85,"endTime":341.67,"body":"English speaker, I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":341.67,"endTime":346.26,"body":"need him by my side. And so"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":341.67,"endTime":346.26,"body":"that's how we started putting"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":346.26,"endTime":350.85,"body":"the book together. And it was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":346.26,"endTime":350.85,"body":"very, very important as well for"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":350.85,"endTime":357.0,"body":"us that it wasn't all it was, as"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":350.85,"endTime":357.0,"body":"a, you know, not bias in a way"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":357.0,"endTime":360.6,"body":"that it wasn't just clinicians"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":357.0,"endTime":360.6,"body":"talking about the life of trans"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":360.6,"endTime":363.51,"body":"people, but rather than it was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":360.6,"endTime":363.51,"body":"the other way around, right, we"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":363.51,"endTime":367.08,"body":"are informed by what we learned"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":363.51,"endTime":367.08,"body":"from our clients by what they"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":367.08,"endTime":370.53000000000003,"body":"told us. And it's almost taking"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":367.08,"endTime":370.53000000000003,"body":"those snippets of repeated"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":370.53000000000003,"endTime":372.69,"body":"narratives that you hear time"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":370.53000000000003,"endTime":372.69,"body":"and time again, is that oh,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":372.69,"endTime":376.53000000000003,"body":"well, this is really resonating"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":372.69,"endTime":376.53000000000003,"body":"with this other person and this"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":376.53000000000003,"endTime":381.57,"body":"other person. So we invited our"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":376.53000000000003,"endTime":381.57,"body":"clients, we invited families"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":381.57,"endTime":384.93,"body":"together London, which is an"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":381.57,"endTime":384.93,"body":"organization, supporting parents"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":384.93,"endTime":390.42,"body":"of trans people. And we wanted"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":384.93,"endTime":390.42,"body":"to make it as alive and truthful"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":390.42,"endTime":391.2,"body":"as possible."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":392.49,"endTime":394.32,"body":"Yeah, and one of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":392.49,"endTime":394.32,"body":"the things I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":394.32,"endTime":398.40000000000003,"body":"about your book is that you do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":394.32,"endTime":398.40000000000003,"body":"have lived experiences of folks"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":398.40000000000003,"endTime":401.91,"body":"and I love the subtitle is a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":398.40000000000003,"endTime":401.91,"body":"guide to what transgender non"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":401.91,"endTime":406.14,"body":"binary clients can teach us. You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":401.91,"endTime":406.14,"body":"know, often things like trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":406.14,"endTime":409.62,"body":"and a queer lens can be so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":406.14,"endTime":409.62,"body":"supportive to clients of all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":409.62,"endTime":412.5,"body":"genders and sexualities,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":409.62,"endTime":412.5,"body":"actually, especially as a family"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":412.5,"endTime":415.32,"body":"therapist, and a couple"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":412.5,"endTime":415.32,"body":"therapists, sometimes I really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":415.32,"endTime":419.46000000000004,"body":"see out that cisgenderism or cis"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":415.32,"endTime":419.46000000000004,"body":"normativity really impacts"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":419.46000000000004,"endTime":423.72,"body":"people, even like cis straight"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":419.46000000000004,"endTime":423.72,"body":"people are impacted right by"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":423.72,"endTime":426.54,"body":"those things, which is at the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":423.72,"endTime":426.54,"body":"heart of gender trauma, of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":426.54,"endTime":431.04,"body":"course, which is, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":426.54,"endTime":431.04,"body":"like, that's how I approach the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":431.04,"endTime":434.34000000000003,"body":"whole topic. And so I really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":431.04,"endTime":434.34000000000003,"body":"appreciated that subtitle to,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":434.34000000000003,"endTime":438.36,"body":"again, to our trans non binary"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":434.34000000000003,"endTime":438.36,"body":"clients can teach us, and to put"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":438.36,"endTime":441.90000000000003,"body":"it distill it in a book so that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":438.36,"endTime":441.90000000000003,"body":"clinicians don't have to learn"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":441.90000000000003,"endTime":444.96000000000004,"body":"from their clients directly,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":441.90000000000003,"endTime":444.96000000000004,"body":"right, that they have, like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":444.99,"endTime":447.81,"body":"we've already done the work for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":444.99,"endTime":447.81,"body":"you. We have learned from our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":447.81,"endTime":452.1,"body":"clients and our training, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":447.81,"endTime":452.1,"body":"now you can maybe be a little"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":452.1,"endTime":454.53000000000003,"body":"bit more culturally attuned to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":452.1,"endTime":454.53000000000003,"body":"your clients."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":455.58,"endTime":459.21000000000004,"body":"Michael, I'm really interested"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":455.58,"endTime":459.21000000000004,"body":"in how I mean, I do think that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":459.33,"endTime":463.53000000000003,"body":"the first book Euro, and this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":459.33,"endTime":463.53000000000003,"body":"book are different. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":463.53000000000003,"endTime":467.37,"body":"really interested in to hear"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":463.53000000000003,"endTime":467.37,"body":"like, what is different between"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":467.37,"endTime":470.1,"body":"those two books, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":467.37,"endTime":470.1,"body":"like you said, louder. Often"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":470.1,"endTime":473.55,"body":"books for clinicians are very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":470.1,"endTime":473.55,"body":"much this is how you treat other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":473.55,"endTime":476.94,"body":"people. Right? Like, this is how"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":473.55,"endTime":476.94,"body":"you, you know, there is this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":476.94,"endTime":480.63,"body":"kind of underlying assumption,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":476.94,"endTime":480.63,"body":"you know, that the people we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":480.63,"endTime":485.34000000000003,"body":"treat are others from us. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":480.63,"endTime":485.34000000000003,"body":"there is this distance, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":485.34000000000003,"endTime":489.66,"body":"And this book is not written in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":485.34000000000003,"endTime":489.66,"body":"that way. So yeah, my God just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":489.66,"endTime":492.45,"body":"would love to, to hear more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":489.66,"endTime":492.45,"body":"about how you feel the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":492.45,"endTime":493.86,"body":"difference between those two?"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":495.06,"endTime":498.10900000000004,"body":"Yeah, really"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":495.06,"endTime":498.10900000000004,"body":"interesting question, I probably"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":498.177,"endTime":502.379,"body":"could probably answer it in a"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":498.177,"endTime":502.379,"body":"whole bunch of different ways. I"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":502.447,"endTime":506.785,"body":"think. Certainly, I would agree"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":502.447,"endTime":506.785,"body":"with what Laura said in terms of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":506.853,"endTime":510.648,"body":"positionality that that"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":506.853,"endTime":510.648,"body":"certainly, the way I was trained"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":510.716,"endTime":514.376,"body":"was very much like, don't self"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":510.716,"endTime":514.376,"body":"disclose anything about"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":514.444,"endTime":518.51,"body":"yourself. And I particularly"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":514.444,"endTime":518.51,"body":"found that challenging. I mean,"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":518.578,"endTime":522.983,"body":"I didn't train that long ago, in"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":518.578,"endTime":522.983,"body":"the UK, and gender and sexuality"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":523.0509999999999,"endTime":527.321,"body":"were very much out there in the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":523.0509999999999,"endTime":527.321,"body":"clinical population. So I wrote"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":527.389,"endTime":531.727,"body":"my thesis on gay male therapists"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":527.389,"endTime":531.727,"body":"experience of working with men."},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":531.794,"endTime":535.996,"body":"And it was quite challenging to"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":531.794,"endTime":535.996,"body":"kind of get that work done, in"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":536.064,"endTime":540.199,"body":"part because there was never"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":536.064,"endTime":540.199,"body":"this sort of sense that that the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":540.266,"endTime":544.536,"body":"gay and trans and so on, people"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":540.266,"endTime":544.536,"body":"were were therapists, you know,"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":544.6039999999999,"endTime":548.467,"body":"and, and, and I raised the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":544.6039999999999,"endTime":548.467,"body":"question of like, why wasn't I"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":548.535,"endTime":552.602,"body":"given training on how to work"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":548.535,"endTime":552.602,"body":"with straight, cis het people."},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":552.67,"endTime":557.007,"body":"Because, you know, when I first"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":552.67,"endTime":557.007,"body":"started working as a therapist I"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":557.0749999999999,"endTime":560.803,"body":"was working with to set people"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":557.0749999999999,"endTime":560.803,"body":"I'm like, I don't really"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":560.87,"endTime":564.8689999999999,"body":"understand how these people do"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":560.87,"endTime":564.8689999999999,"body":"their relationships. And you"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":564.9369999999999,"endTime":569.0709999999999,"body":"know, the first person I worked"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":564.9369999999999,"endTime":569.0709999999999,"body":"with was a straight woman who"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":569.139,"endTime":573.274,"body":"was divorcing her husband. And I"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":569.139,"endTime":573.274,"body":"find that really challenging"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":573.341,"endTime":577.543,"body":"because it wasn't in in my kind"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":573.341,"endTime":577.543,"body":"of wheelhouse, but I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":577.611,"endTime":581.813,"body":"slightly going into that, that"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":577.611,"endTime":581.813,"body":"sort of side topic. But the the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":581.881,"endTime":586.016,"body":"core sort of idea was to say,"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":581.881,"endTime":586.016,"body":"well, actually, this is this is"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":586.083,"endTime":589.947,"body":"in here. And that one of the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":586.083,"endTime":589.947,"body":"things about this particular"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":590.014,"endTime":594.0129999999999,"body":"book, compared to the previous"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":590.014,"endTime":594.0129999999999,"body":"one was that Laura very much"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":594.0809999999999,"endTime":598.1479999999999,"body":"gave us all permission to very"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":594.0809999999999,"endTime":598.1479999999999,"body":"much be in the book and write"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":598.2149999999999,"endTime":601.6039999999999,"body":"about ourselves and to and"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":598.2149999999999,"endTime":601.6039999999999,"body":"challenge it was a real"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":601.6719999999999,"endTime":605.8739999999999,"body":"challenge for me to write in my"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":601.6719999999999,"endTime":605.8739999999999,"body":"chapter that I wrote something"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":605.942,"endTime":609.67,"body":"about my childhood and about my"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":605.942,"endTime":609.67,"body":"experience of having my"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":609.737,"endTime":613.736,"body":"masculinity policed. And this"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":609.737,"endTime":613.736,"body":"sort of idea that actually we"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":613.804,"endTime":618.1419999999999,"body":"all have a gender identity. And"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":613.804,"endTime":618.1419999999999,"body":"that gender is something that we"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":618.209,"endTime":622.5469999999999,"body":"share, it's very much your sort"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":618.209,"endTime":622.5469999999999,"body":"of point about gender trauma. So"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":622.615,"endTime":626.6809999999999,"body":"I sort of felt that that that"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":622.615,"endTime":626.6809999999999,"body":"permission then allow the kind"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":626.7489999999999,"endTime":630.8159999999999,"body":"of conversation to be about"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":626.7489999999999,"endTime":630.8159999999999,"body":"Okay, so what is masculinity and"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":630.8839999999999,"endTime":635.0179999999999,"body":"how do I do I even define myself"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":630.8839999999999,"endTime":635.0179999999999,"body":"as as male and and What does"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":635.0859999999999,"endTime":639.423,"body":"maleness mean? And I think both"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":635.0859999999999,"endTime":639.423,"body":"of us realized in that that it's"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":639.491,"endTime":643.829,"body":"not a topic really that was ever"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":639.491,"endTime":643.829,"body":"discussed the gender clinic, we"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":643.8969999999999,"endTime":647.6239999999999,"body":"might have been given training"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":643.8969999999999,"endTime":647.6239999999999,"body":"on HRT, and gonadotropin"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":647.692,"endTime":651.7589999999999,"body":"releasing hormone analogue and"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":647.692,"endTime":651.7589999999999,"body":"all of this kind of technical"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":651.8259999999999,"endTime":655.622,"body":"stuff. But like, what is a man?"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":651.8259999999999,"endTime":655.622,"body":"What is a woman? What is"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":655.6899999999999,"endTime":659.824,"body":"masculinity? What is femininity?"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":655.6899999999999,"endTime":659.824,"body":"How is it performed? What is"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":659.8919999999999,"endTime":663.823,"body":"gender even mean? Was never,"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":659.8919999999999,"endTime":663.823,"body":"never looked at or discussed."},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":663.891,"endTime":667.89,"body":"And so we wanted to bring that"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":663.891,"endTime":667.89,"body":"into the book a lot as well."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":668.9399999999999,"endTime":670.92,"body":"Absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":668.9399999999999,"endTime":670.92,"body":"love how you did that. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":670.92,"endTime":673.74,"body":"you're really speaking tomorrow,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":670.92,"endTime":673.74,"body":"Michael, because I remember even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":673.74,"endTime":677.76,"body":"when I did my therapy, my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":673.74,"endTime":677.76,"body":"psychotherapy training in the UK"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":679.17,"endTime":685.3199999999999,"body":"over 20 years ago, now wow, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":679.17,"endTime":685.3199999999999,"body":"getting real old. Because my, my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":685.3199999999999,"endTime":689.28,"body":"first licensure was actually in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":685.3199999999999,"endTime":689.28,"body":"the UK with the UK CPE back all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":689.28,"endTime":694.53,"body":"the way back in 2006. At the end"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":689.28,"endTime":694.53,"body":"of my training, and it's easy"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":694.53,"endTime":698.8499999999999,"body":"for me to track because I have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":694.53,"endTime":698.8499999999999,"body":"my, my oldest was born, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":699.3299999999999,"endTime":702.3,"body":"rarely, I think my second year"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":699.3299999999999,"endTime":702.3,"body":"of political trading. So it's an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":702.3,"endTime":705.06,"body":"easy remember, I was like, Well,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":702.3,"endTime":705.06,"body":"how old is she? Oh, yeah, she's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":705.06,"endTime":710.76,"body":"gonna be 21. So over 20 years"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":705.06,"endTime":710.76,"body":"ago, there was really so little,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":710.79,"endTime":713.49,"body":"you know, yes, there was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":710.79,"endTime":713.49,"body":"something about LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":713.49,"endTime":717.24,"body":"populations out there. But it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":713.49,"endTime":717.24,"body":"wasn't really integrated, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":717.24,"endTime":720.54,"body":"know, and I remember we had to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":717.24,"endTime":720.54,"body":"do this paper and like, observe"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":720.54,"endTime":723.27,"body":"a family, you know, because I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":720.54,"endTime":723.27,"body":"did systemic psychotherapy"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":723.27,"endTime":726.3,"body":"training, observe a family"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":723.27,"endTime":726.3,"body":"that's different from yours in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":726.3,"endTime":729.27,"body":"terms of like culture and so on."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":726.3,"endTime":729.27,"body":"And I went to observe, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":730.3499999999999,"endTime":735.39,"body":"English Christian family and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":730.3499999999999,"endTime":735.39,"body":"their mealtime, you know, as a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":735.39,"endTime":738.4499999999999,"body":"ritual and the paper and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":735.39,"endTime":738.4499999999999,"body":"remember the tutor going, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":738.4499999999999,"endTime":740.9699999999999,"body":"that's not what I had in mind."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":738.4499999999999,"endTime":740.9699999999999,"body":"And I was like, well, they're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":740.9699999999999,"endTime":744.0,"body":"different from me. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":740.9699999999999,"endTime":744.0,"body":"I'm not a Christian. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":744.0,"endTime":747.03,"body":"I'm a practicing pagan. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":744.0,"endTime":747.03,"body":"queer. They're straight. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":747.03,"endTime":749.2199999999999,"body":"wasn't out as trans yet, at the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":747.03,"endTime":749.2199999999999,"body":"beginning of my clinical"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":749.2199999999999,"endTime":753.87,"body":"training. To myself, even I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":749.2199999999999,"endTime":753.87,"body":"just figuring it out still. Just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":753.87,"endTime":758.01,"body":"about, you know, I'm, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":753.87,"endTime":758.01,"body":"genderqueer by it, like, they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":758.01,"endTime":763.4399999999999,"body":"are different from me, you know?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":758.01,"endTime":763.4399999999999,"body":"And they're like, oh, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":763.4399999999999,"endTime":767.31,"body":"like, yep, that says a lot. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":763.4399999999999,"endTime":767.31,"body":"it's this other egg of anybody"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":767.31,"endTime":770.6099999999999,"body":"who is, you know, when often"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":767.31,"endTime":770.6099999999999,"body":"when we think about diversity in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":770.6099999999999,"endTime":773.31,"body":"our field, we're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":770.6099999999999,"endTime":773.31,"body":"people who are not says people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":773.31,"endTime":776.13,"body":"are not straight people are not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":773.31,"endTime":776.13,"body":"white, right? We never think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":776.13,"endTime":779.6999999999999,"body":"that for some of us, actually. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":776.13,"endTime":779.6999999999999,"body":"was like, English culture,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":779.7299999999999,"endTime":783.0899999999999,"body":"endlessly fascinating to me,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":779.7299999999999,"endTime":783.0899999999999,"body":"right. But I have people in my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":783.0899999999999,"endTime":785.7299999999999,"body":"cohort that were like, You're so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":783.0899999999999,"endTime":785.7299999999999,"body":"lucky that you have culture? We"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":785.7299999999999,"endTime":788.52,"body":"don't have any I was like, Well,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":785.7299999999999,"endTime":788.52,"body":"you do. Let me tell you all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":788.52,"endTime":794.0999999999999,"body":"about your contracts. And these"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":788.52,"endTime":794.0999999999999,"body":"are all the fascinating things"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":794.0999999999999,"endTime":798.3,"body":"about English culture, you know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":794.0999999999999,"endTime":798.3,"body":"what I mean? And so I feel that."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":800.13,"endTime":803.25,"body":"Yeah, well, and you know, I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":800.13,"endTime":803.25,"body":"that you're going through this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":803.28,"endTime":808.77,"body":"process, also, like, putting"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":803.28,"endTime":808.77,"body":"yourself in the book. But and I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":808.77,"endTime":812.79,"body":"wonder, you know, you said it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":808.77,"endTime":812.79,"body":"was challenging. What was it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":812.79,"endTime":815.9699999999999,"body":"like also to write this book? I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":812.79,"endTime":815.9699999999999,"body":"mean, you're in partnership with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":815.9699999999999,"endTime":820.05,"body":"Skye as well as an author. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":815.9699999999999,"endTime":820.05,"body":"in terms of assist folks, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":820.0799999999999,"endTime":823.5,"body":"you know, us as people, as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":820.0799999999999,"endTime":823.5,"body":"therapists, what was it like to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":823.5,"endTime":826.9499999999999,"body":"engage in that process of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":823.5,"endTime":826.9499999999999,"body":"really putting your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":826.9499999999999,"endTime":831.3599999999999,"body":"positionality in there and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":826.9499999999999,"endTime":831.3599999999999,"body":"putting yourself out there? In"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":831.3599999999999,"endTime":834.18,"body":"this way? Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":831.3599999999999,"endTime":834.18,"body":"That question?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":836.9699999999999,"endTime":842.9699999999999,"body":"I think, yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":836.9699999999999,"endTime":842.9699999999999,"body":"conflicting at times, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":843.0,"endTime":847.38,"body":"there was a element of thinking,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":843.0,"endTime":847.38,"body":"Am I going to put too much of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":847.38,"endTime":851.0999999999999,"body":"myself out there? Is this going"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":847.38,"endTime":851.0999999999999,"body":"to hinder my work? How am I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":851.0999999999999,"endTime":854.16,"body":"going to feel when someone"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":851.0999999999999,"endTime":854.16,"body":"approaches me and say, Hey, I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":854.16,"endTime":857.67,"body":"read your book, and I know that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":854.16,"endTime":857.67,"body":"your family is South American,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":857.67,"endTime":860.4,"body":"and or I know that you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":857.67,"endTime":860.4,"body":"these things about yourself. So"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":860.4,"endTime":863.88,"body":"I think there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":860.4,"endTime":863.88,"body":"active questioning as to how"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":863.88,"endTime":868.5899999999999,"body":"much was I comfortable to share,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":863.88,"endTime":868.5899999999999,"body":"but also involve a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":868.5899999999999,"endTime":874.65,"body":"a leap of faith, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":868.5899999999999,"endTime":874.65,"body":"terms of being able to share it"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":874.68,"endTime":877.41,"body":"and hope that it would be"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":874.68,"endTime":877.41,"body":"received in the way it needed to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":877.41,"endTime":882.0899999999999,"body":"be received. For me, the leap is"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":877.41,"endTime":882.0899999999999,"body":"even greater, because not only"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":882.0899999999999,"endTime":885.78,"body":"am I cis but I'm also straight,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":882.0899999999999,"endTime":885.78,"body":"and I was also raised, very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":885.78,"endTime":890.0699999999999,"body":"Catholic. And so you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":885.78,"endTime":890.0699999999999,"body":"the whole, the very, the very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":890.0699999999999,"endTime":894.51,"body":"core of the ideology that we're"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":890.0699999999999,"endTime":894.51,"body":"trying to shape and challenge"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":894.51,"endTime":898.68,"body":"and this is why for me, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":894.51,"endTime":898.68,"body":"been so amazing, because even"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":898.68,"endTime":903.51,"body":"though I've had lots of, you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":898.68,"endTime":903.51,"body":"know, a LGB friends in my life,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":903.75,"endTime":907.1999999999999,"body":"I had never met a trans person"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":903.75,"endTime":907.1999999999999,"body":"until I got the job at the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":907.1999999999999,"endTime":911.4,"body":"clinic. And it was a matter as"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":907.1999999999999,"endTime":911.4,"body":"well as challenging as well."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":911.4,"endTime":916.4699999999999,"body":"What was I going to do there?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":911.4,"endTime":916.4699999999999,"body":"For a moment, I thought I needed"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":916.4699999999999,"endTime":919.3199999999999,"body":"to, I don't know, gay trans"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":916.4699999999999,"endTime":919.3199999999999,"body":"women on their expression of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":919.3199999999999,"endTime":923.04,"body":"femininity, because as a syst"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":919.3199999999999,"endTime":923.04,"body":"person, I had that too, you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":923.04,"endTime":926.37,"body":"know, validation and I know how"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":923.04,"endTime":926.37,"body":"to do it, you know, I had that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":926.64,"endTime":929.64,"body":"perhaps the idea of, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":926.64,"endTime":929.64,"body":"certain arrogance that is"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":929.64,"endTime":934.9799999999999,"body":"personal rise to a Transfield"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":929.64,"endTime":934.9799999999999,"body":"with you know, or thinking that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":935.04,"endTime":939.27,"body":"certain things might be odd? And"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":935.04,"endTime":939.27,"body":"certainly it's like, well, why"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":939.27,"endTime":943.26,"body":"your sis mobile in the mind, you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":939.27,"endTime":943.26,"body":"know, why your experience. So"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":944.55,"endTime":949.62,"body":"this being a whole world opening"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":944.55,"endTime":949.62,"body":"to me and as much as MCs head,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":949.62,"endTime":952.56,"body":"you know, when I learned that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":949.62,"endTime":952.56,"body":"queer was also an ideology, I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":952.56,"endTime":956.43,"body":"was like, Okay, I'm queer to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":952.56,"endTime":956.43,"body":"have and I want to insert myself"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":956.43,"endTime":961.1099999999999,"body":"into into this one into this way"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":956.43,"endTime":961.1099999999999,"body":"of seeing things more flexibly"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":961.1099999999999,"endTime":964.9799999999999,"body":"and to fit people's experiences,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":961.1099999999999,"endTime":964.9799999999999,"body":"you know, not just the mold."},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":964.8,"endTime":975.3,"body":"was gonna say I find"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":964.8,"endTime":975.3,"body":"the process very effective in"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":975.3,"endTime":980.28,"body":"terms of thinking about"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":975.3,"endTime":980.28,"body":"intersectionality. And the fact"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":980.28,"endTime":988.53,"body":"that as a middle aged white man,"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":980.28,"endTime":988.53,"body":"who has been privately educated,"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":989.28,"endTime":992.67,"body":"I grew up in a very colonial"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":989.28,"endTime":992.67,"body":"kind of setup, I was born in"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":992.67,"endTime":995.37,"body":"what was then Rhodesia, and then"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":992.67,"endTime":995.37,"body":"Bush became Zimbabwe, and I"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":995.37,"endTime":1001.43,"body":"lived in, in a kind of very"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":995.37,"endTime":1001.43,"body":"white colonial upbringing with a"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1001.43,"endTime":1006.2299999999999,"body":"reasonable degree of privilege."},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1001.43,"endTime":1006.2299999999999,"body":"I also, like Laura, I have a"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1006.26,"endTime":1008.93,"body":"very Catholic background, I in"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1006.26,"endTime":1008.93,"body":"fact, even trained to be a"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1008.93,"endTime":1011.87,"body":"priest for a while, as a way of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1008.93,"endTime":1011.87,"body":"kind of avoiding having a"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1011.87,"endTime":1016.9399999999999,"body":"sexuality and the shame of being"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1011.87,"endTime":1016.9399999999999,"body":"gay and within the context of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1016.9399999999999,"endTime":1020.81,"body":"culture that I lived in. But the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1016.9399999999999,"endTime":1020.81,"body":"process of writing I think, just"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1020.81,"endTime":1024.83,"body":"made me more and more aware of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1020.81,"endTime":1024.83,"body":"different kinds of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1024.83,"endTime":1029.51,"body":"intersectional privilege, and"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1024.83,"endTime":1029.51,"body":"kind of oppression in different"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1029.51,"endTime":1032.57,"body":"kinds of ways or dis privilege."},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1029.51,"endTime":1032.57,"body":"I don't know, I wouldn't want to"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1032.57,"endTime":1035.09,"body":"say particularly that was"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1032.57,"endTime":1035.09,"body":"oppressed and such. But, you"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1035.09,"endTime":1038.51,"body":"know, my experience of having"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1035.09,"endTime":1038.51,"body":"my, my gender policed, or my"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1038.51,"endTime":1042.47,"body":"experience of being shamed for"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1038.51,"endTime":1042.47,"body":"my sexuality, etc, then also"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1042.47,"endTime":1046.76,"body":"intersects with people listening"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1042.47,"endTime":1046.76,"body":"to me, because I'm six foot two"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1046.76,"endTime":1050.06,"body":"middle aged, privately educated"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1046.76,"endTime":1050.06,"body":"white man with a doctrine. And"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1050.06,"endTime":1053.15,"body":"people just sort of like,"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1050.06,"endTime":1053.15,"body":"automatically assume that what I"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1053.15,"endTime":1057.08,"body":"say is right. And all of these"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1053.15,"endTime":1057.08,"body":"things, and really kind of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1057.11,"endTime":1059.72,"body":"having that, pull it holding"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1057.11,"endTime":1059.72,"body":"that kind of mirror up to"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1059.72,"endTime":1063.98,"body":"yourself and going well, okay, I"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1059.72,"endTime":1063.98,"body":"really do need to think about my"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1063.98,"endTime":1067.79,"body":"own positionality in my work in"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1063.98,"endTime":1067.79,"body":"the way in which I write and the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1067.79,"endTime":1071.54,"body":"way in which I speak, and the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1067.79,"endTime":1071.54,"body":"way in which I think about the"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1071.54,"endTime":1075.62,"body":"work that I do with, with all of"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1071.54,"endTime":1075.62,"body":"my clients, and particularly"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1075.62,"endTime":1078.86,"body":"with the trans non binary ones"},{"speaker":"MIchael","startTime":1075.62,"endTime":1078.86,"body":"who I support."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1079.76,"endTime":1084.44,"body":"I liked Michael that you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1079.76,"endTime":1084.44,"body":"say that I gave you permission"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1084.44,"endTime":1087.3799999999999,"body":"to write from your experience."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1084.44,"endTime":1087.3799999999999,"body":"Michael to go there."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1086.8,"endTime":1096.04,"body":"very, very gentle"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1086.8,"endTime":1096.04,"body":"British reframe."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1098.35,"endTime":1102.19,"body":"Know, we're going back?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1098.35,"endTime":1102.19,"body":"And I think I think as well, I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1102.19,"endTime":1106.0,"body":"don't want to speak for Skye,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1102.19,"endTime":1106.0,"body":"but I think also for Skye was a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1106.0,"endTime":1109.06,"body":"big element, you know, to think"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1106.0,"endTime":1109.06,"body":"about their own identity and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1109.06,"endTime":1111.82,"body":"how, you know, what is the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1109.06,"endTime":1111.82,"body":"impact in terms of putting"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1111.82,"endTime":1116.77,"body":"yourself out there. And I think"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1111.82,"endTime":1116.77,"body":"for a lot of people that who are"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1116.77,"endTime":1119.5,"body":"trans or non binary, and the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1116.77,"endTime":1119.5,"body":"repeated experience that I'm"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1119.5,"endTime":1122.74,"body":"hearing is, you know, like, on"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1119.5,"endTime":1122.74,"body":"the one hand, I want to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1122.86,"endTime":1126.01,"body":"represent my community, and I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1122.86,"endTime":1126.01,"body":"want to show people that you can"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1126.01,"endTime":1130.72,"body":"be trans and a therapist, trans"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1126.01,"endTime":1130.72,"body":"and a teacher, trans and a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1130.72,"endTime":1133.87,"body":"person who has difficulties or"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1130.72,"endTime":1133.87,"body":"not, you know, whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1134.1399999999999,"endTime":1137.23,"body":"but also want to just not be"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1134.1399999999999,"endTime":1137.23,"body":"anything of the things, you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1137.23,"endTime":1139.6599999999999,"body":"know, don't want to be holding"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1137.23,"endTime":1139.6599999999999,"body":"these labels constantly in front"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1139.6599999999999,"endTime":1144.22,"body":"of my face. And saying that,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1139.6599999999999,"endTime":1144.22,"body":"yeah, it's it's about striking"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1144.22,"endTime":1146.95,"body":"that balance with being"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1144.22,"endTime":1146.95,"body":"authentic. This is what we"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1146.95,"endTime":1149.11,"body":"needed to model for, for"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1146.95,"endTime":1149.11,"body":"everyone."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1148.8,"endTime":1155.04,"body":"And I am also sorry, to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1148.8,"endTime":1155.04,"body":"kind of interrupt. But I think"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1155.04,"endTime":1160.2,"body":"that that really, that really"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1155.04,"endTime":1160.2,"body":"kind of speaks to the title of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1160.2,"endTime":1163.23,"body":"the book. So the reason we call"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1160.2,"endTime":1163.23,"body":"it gender affirming therapy, and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1163.23,"endTime":1167.79,"body":"what that sort of meant. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1163.23,"endTime":1167.79,"body":"think that for both Laura and I,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1167.97,"endTime":1170.52,"body":"we've kind of went on a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1167.97,"endTime":1170.52,"body":"journey, if you like, but also,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1170.76,"endTime":1173.07,"body":"you know, it was where we've"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1170.76,"endTime":1173.07,"body":"started with the title, but then"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1173.19,"endTime":1176.3999999999999,"body":"we started to really try and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1173.19,"endTime":1176.3999999999999,"body":"bring that to life. And what"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1176.3999999999999,"endTime":1179.31,"body":"does it What does affirmative"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1176.3999999999999,"endTime":1179.31,"body":"practice mean? What does it"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1179.31,"endTime":1184.59,"body":"mean, to do this kind of this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1179.31,"endTime":1184.59,"body":"kind of work in this way? And I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1184.59,"endTime":1187.8,"body":"suppose for both of us, there"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1184.59,"endTime":1187.8,"body":"are the two things one is"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1187.95,"endTime":1191.34,"body":"knowledge that you it's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1187.95,"endTime":1191.34,"body":"incumbent on you to increase"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1191.34,"endTime":1194.43,"body":"your knowledge in the area. So"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1191.34,"endTime":1194.43,"body":"the example we always give is if"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1194.49,"endTime":1197.46,"body":"if you're working with eating"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1194.49,"endTime":1197.46,"body":"disorders, for example, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1197.46,"endTime":1200.3999999999999,"body":"incumbent on you to read some"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1197.46,"endTime":1200.3999999999999,"body":"books about eating disorders, to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1200.3999999999999,"endTime":1204.03,"body":"learn about the subject area."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1200.3999999999999,"endTime":1204.03,"body":"But secondly, and most"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1204.03,"endTime":1207.27,"body":"importantly, to practice"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1204.03,"endTime":1207.27,"body":"reflexivity in relation to that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1207.27,"endTime":1210.12,"body":"subject area. So to think about"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1207.27,"endTime":1210.12,"body":"what's my relationship with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1210.12,"endTime":1213.57,"body":"food, how do I feel about my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1210.12,"endTime":1213.57,"body":"body? What has been my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1213.57,"endTime":1217.26,"body":"experience of kind of dieting,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1213.57,"endTime":1217.26,"body":"of not liking the way that I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1217.26,"endTime":1220.8,"body":"look of having the way that I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1217.26,"endTime":1220.8,"body":"look policed or commented on by"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1220.8,"endTime":1224.19,"body":"other people or feeling shame"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1220.8,"endTime":1224.19,"body":"about different body parts and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1224.19,"endTime":1227.82,"body":"things? And so that I have this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1224.19,"endTime":1227.82,"body":"shared experience with the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1227.82,"endTime":1229.86,"body":"client, they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1227.82,"endTime":1229.86,"body":"struggling with something that I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1229.86,"endTime":1232.4099999999999,"body":"also struggle with or have"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1229.86,"endTime":1232.4099999999999,"body":"struggled with, or have an"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1232.4099999999999,"endTime":1237.78,"body":"experience of and So for us,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1232.4099999999999,"endTime":1237.78,"body":"this kind of the, the part of us"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1237.84,"endTime":1241.62,"body":"as, as long as I say, gave me"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1237.84,"endTime":1241.62,"body":"the give me permission, but also"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1241.95,"endTime":1245.97,"body":"politely pushed me into it. But"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1241.95,"endTime":1245.97,"body":"it's partly about kind of like"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1245.97,"endTime":1249.45,"body":"showing your, your vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1245.97,"endTime":1249.45,"body":"bits in terms of this is my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1249.45,"endTime":1254.43,"body":"experience. And when I reflect"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1249.45,"endTime":1254.43,"body":"on, on my identity, this is what"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1254.43,"endTime":1257.07,"body":"happens for me and for us. Those"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1254.43,"endTime":1257.07,"body":"are the two things. That's what"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1257.07,"endTime":1259.8,"body":"we mean by it. And that sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1257.07,"endTime":1259.8,"body":"thing. should kind of be the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1259.8,"endTime":1261.72,"body":"basis of it. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1261.75,"endTime":1264.03,"body":"absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1261.75,"endTime":1264.03,"body":"couldn't agree more. I feel like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1264.03,"endTime":1267.69,"body":"there are like 20 tangents I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1264.03,"endTime":1267.69,"body":"could go off. On right now. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1267.69,"endTime":1272.1299999999999,"body":"was like, Oh, I love that we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1267.69,"endTime":1272.1299999999999,"body":"were all brought up Catholic. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1272.1299999999999,"endTime":1278.46,"body":"feel like I could do episodes."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1272.1299999999999,"endTime":1278.46,"body":"Gender in the Catholic Church."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1279.18,"endTime":1282.18,"body":"Yeah, almost became a nun. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1279.18,"endTime":1282.18,"body":"really wanted to be a priest."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1282.18,"endTime":1284.61,"body":"But that wasn't a thing, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1282.18,"endTime":1284.61,"body":"And then I was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1285.84,"endTime":1287.49,"body":"I used to have a T"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1285.84,"endTime":1287.49,"body":"shirt that said, recovering"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1287.49,"endTime":1288.99,"body":"Catholic. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1289.02,"endTime":1291.731,"body":"I love that. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1289.02,"endTime":1291.731,"body":"my God, that's so good. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1291.793,"endTime":1295.244,"body":"yeah, I did two years at the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1291.793,"endTime":1295.244,"body":"Gregorian University, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1295.306,"endTime":1299.127,"body":"pretty serious about becoming a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1295.306,"endTime":1299.127,"body":"nun. When I was big, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1299.1879999999999,"endTime":1302.9479999999999,"body":"brought up in Rome, kind of, so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1299.1879999999999,"endTime":1302.9479999999999,"body":"I feel that. So there was all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1303.009,"endTime":1306.892,"body":"times in there that made me want"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1303.009,"endTime":1306.892,"body":"to type in that was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1306.954,"endTime":1310.282,"body":"another podcast episode."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1306.954,"endTime":1310.282,"body":"Exactly. It can be gender and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1310.3429999999998,"endTime":1314.2259999999999,"body":"Catholicism. But I love a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1310.3429999999998,"endTime":1314.2259999999999,"body":"what you said in terms of that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1314.288,"endTime":1318.047,"body":"the reflexivity right from both"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1314.288,"endTime":1318.047,"body":"of you, because one of my pet"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1318.109,"endTime":1322.0529999999999,"body":"peeves is always, often clients"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1318.109,"endTime":1322.0529999999999,"body":"have seen a therapist for a long"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1322.115,"endTime":1325.751,"body":"time, and then all of a sudden,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1322.115,"endTime":1325.751,"body":"you know, they're exploring"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1325.812,"endTime":1329.325,"body":"their gender in it, like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1325.812,"endTime":1329.325,"body":"you need to go see somebody"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1329.387,"endTime":1332.961,"body":"else. Right. And I know that in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1329.387,"endTime":1332.961,"body":"some, you know, in the UK,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1333.023,"endTime":1336.536,"body":"though, different system, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1333.023,"endTime":1336.536,"body":"for example, here on Turtle"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1336.598,"endTime":1340.2949999999998,"body":"Island, and the so called us"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1336.598,"endTime":1340.2949999999998,"body":"where I live, right, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1340.357,"endTime":1344.055,"body":"that is not necessary. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1340.357,"endTime":1344.055,"body":"it's like, if we all have a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1344.116,"endTime":1347.753,"body":"gender identity, we should all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1344.116,"endTime":1347.753,"body":"be able, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1347.8139999999999,"endTime":1351.389,"body":"things like gender, sexuality,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1347.8139999999999,"endTime":1351.389,"body":"like we all have gender and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1351.45,"endTime":1355.21,"body":"sexuality in some way, shape, or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1351.45,"endTime":1355.21,"body":"form. It's part of the human"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1355.271,"endTime":1359.216,"body":"experience. So I don't see it as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1355.271,"endTime":1359.216,"body":"a specialist right subject. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1359.277,"endTime":1362.8519999999999,"body":"I think that any gender or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1359.277,"endTime":1362.8519999999999,"body":"sexuality that falls outside of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1362.913,"endTime":1366.796,"body":"cis heterosexual ality is seen"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1362.913,"endTime":1366.796,"body":"as a specialist population or as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1366.858,"endTime":1369.9389999999999,"body":"the reserve of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1366.858,"endTime":1369.9389999999999,"body":"specialists, right? And I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1370.001,"endTime":1373.637,"body":"like, Why, like, we shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1370.001,"endTime":1373.637,"body":"refer people because of their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1373.6989999999998,"endTime":1377.088,"body":"gender and sexual I end up"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1373.6989999999998,"endTime":1377.088,"body":"seeing the harm of that too."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1377.1499999999999,"endTime":1381.094,"body":"Right? Right, the harm of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1377.1499999999999,"endTime":1381.094,"body":"clients feeling like rejected or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1381.156,"endTime":1384.792,"body":"feeling like, I'm such a freak,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1381.156,"endTime":1384.792,"body":"that now I need to go see a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1384.854,"endTime":1388.86,"body":"specialist because of my gender,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1384.854,"endTime":1388.86,"body":"right? And it is painful, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1388.921,"endTime":1392.1879999999999,"body":"And I've also seen the impact"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1388.921,"endTime":1392.1879999999999,"body":"even on like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1392.249,"endTime":1395.639,"body":"clinicians were 2030 years older"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1392.249,"endTime":1395.639,"body":"than I am, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1395.7,"endTime":1399.337,"body":"sexuality, having internalized"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1395.7,"endTime":1399.337,"body":"that sense of like, having a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1399.398,"endTime":1403.219,"body":"criminalized sexuality, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1399.398,"endTime":1403.219,"body":"And then not my that is trauma,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1403.281,"endTime":1406.732,"body":"actually, when our gender is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1403.281,"endTime":1406.732,"body":"policed, no matter what our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1406.7939999999999,"endTime":1410.615,"body":"identity is, right, we are being"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1406.7939999999999,"endTime":1410.615,"body":"put in a box and squished and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1410.676,"endTime":1414.066,"body":"like, a part of us that's being"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1410.676,"endTime":1414.066,"body":"told it's unacceptable,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1414.128,"endTime":1418.072,"body":"regardless, right, of our gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1414.128,"endTime":1418.072,"body":"identity. And so I love how you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1418.134,"endTime":1421.955,"body":"approach it, because it really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1418.134,"endTime":1421.955,"body":"highlights we all need to like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1422.0159999999998,"endTime":1425.961,"body":"do our gender and sexuality work"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1422.0159999999998,"endTime":1425.961,"body":"to work with clients, it should"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1426.022,"endTime":1429.72,"body":"be an essential part, does that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1426.022,"endTime":1429.72,"body":"make sense? Or training, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1429.782,"endTime":1433.664,"body":"it's not? Still, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1429.782,"endTime":1433.664,"body":"it is not a part of our trading."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1433.7259999999999,"endTime":1437.116,"body":"So I love everything you just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1433.7259999999999,"endTime":1437.116,"body":"said about that. And I am"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1437.177,"endTime":1441.1219999999998,"body":"curious about when you ask trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1437.177,"endTime":1441.1219999999998,"body":"folks to like, share, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1441.183,"endTime":1445.004,"body":"maybe like, I'm gonna use some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1441.183,"endTime":1445.004,"body":"of your experiences in the book"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1445.066,"endTime":1448.887,"body":"or a conversation with some of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1445.066,"endTime":1448.887,"body":"your colleagues or clients. How"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1448.9489999999998,"endTime":1452.3999999999999,"body":"did that go? How was that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1448.9489999999998,"endTime":1452.3999999999999,"body":"received? You know, because it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1452.461,"endTime":1455.789,"body":"can go I think a number of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1452.461,"endTime":1455.789,"body":"different ways. And I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1455.8509999999999,"endTime":1459.302,"body":"sometimes people are like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1455.8509999999999,"endTime":1459.302,"body":"scared of asking, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1459.364,"endTime":1463.123,"body":"don't want you to feel talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1459.364,"endTime":1463.123,"body":"eyes. I don't want you to feel"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1463.185,"endTime":1466.944,"body":"others, like, you know, that I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1463.185,"endTime":1466.944,"body":"doing ballroom dance. And my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1467.0059999999999,"endTime":1470.827,"body":"studio was like, we want to ask"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1467.0059999999999,"endTime":1470.827,"body":"you and your partner, have you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1470.889,"endTime":1474.5249999999999,"body":"been photos, but like the studio"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1470.889,"endTime":1474.5249999999999,"body":"owner would didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1474.586,"endTime":1478.531,"body":"offend you. And I was fine. You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1474.586,"endTime":1478.531,"body":"know, I was like, Absolutely, by"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1478.5919999999999,"endTime":1482.475,"body":"and stuff like that show. I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1478.5919999999999,"endTime":1482.475,"body":"like, this studio is very Trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1482.537,"endTime":1486.173,"body":"and Queer affirming. And of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1482.537,"endTime":1486.173,"body":"course, if you only have people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1486.234,"endTime":1489.8709999999999,"body":"photos of people look this hat"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1486.234,"endTime":1489.8709999999999,"body":"like people are not going to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1489.932,"endTime":1493.322,"body":"know that. But that helped me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1489.932,"endTime":1493.322,"body":"that nervousness right in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1493.383,"endTime":1496.773,"body":"approaching people share"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1493.383,"endTime":1496.773,"body":"different identities. And so I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1496.835,"endTime":1500.04,"body":"was wondering what that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1496.835,"endTime":1500.04,"body":"experience was like for you."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1501.27,"endTime":1506.76,"body":"So there are some of the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1501.27,"endTime":1506.76,"body":"some of the stories that I share"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1506.76,"endTime":1510.36,"body":"in the different chapters, which"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1506.76,"endTime":1510.36,"body":"is a bit of an amalgamation and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1510.36,"endTime":1513.84,"body":"also the clients that I haven't"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1510.36,"endTime":1513.84,"body":"seen, perhaps in years, so I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1513.84,"endTime":1517.1399999999999,"body":"didn't have the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1513.84,"endTime":1517.1399999999999,"body":"ask them directly. I simply"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1517.1399999999999,"endTime":1520.98,"body":"ensured that you know, their,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1517.1399999999999,"endTime":1520.98,"body":"their, their identity remain"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1520.98,"endTime":1524.55,"body":"confidential. But the couple"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1520.98,"endTime":1524.55,"body":"that I did ask particularly one"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1524.55,"endTime":1528.99,"body":"of them, he loved it, he loved"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1524.55,"endTime":1528.99,"body":"it so much. I sent him the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1528.99,"endTime":1532.26,"body":"fragment and then he came back"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1528.99,"endTime":1532.26,"body":"because I gave him a pseudonym."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1532.44,"endTime":1536.34,"body":"And it he is Mediterannean But"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1532.44,"endTime":1536.34,"body":"he is not Italian. And he loved"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1536.34,"endTime":1540.78,"body":"the idea of seeing himself as"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1536.34,"endTime":1540.78,"body":"Italian. And so in then he was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1541.1399999999999,"endTime":1544.4099999999999,"body":"signing the email back to me"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1541.1399999999999,"endTime":1544.4099999999999,"body":"with a pseudonym I had given him"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1544.4099999999999,"endTime":1550.05,"body":"so he was reading into it. Very,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1544.4099999999999,"endTime":1550.05,"body":"very funny guy. And then the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1550.05,"endTime":1552.6599999999999,"body":"other the rest of the interview"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1550.05,"endTime":1552.6599999999999,"body":"was actually that was fully"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1552.99,"endTime":1558.33,"body":"Skye's work, who was amazing at,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1552.99,"endTime":1558.33,"body":"you know, seeking people online"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1558.33,"endTime":1562.4099999999999,"body":"and communicating with them and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1558.33,"endTime":1562.4099999999999,"body":"setting up the meetings. And I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1562.4099999999999,"endTime":1565.9199999999998,"body":"think perhaps the one interview"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1562.4099999999999,"endTime":1565.9199999999998,"body":"or sets of interview that I was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1565.9199999999998,"endTime":1568.4099999999999,"body":"a little bit more anxious about"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1565.9199999999998,"endTime":1568.4099999999999,"body":"was the interview with the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1568.4099999999999,"endTime":1573.81,"body":"parents of trans folk. Because"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1568.4099999999999,"endTime":1573.81,"body":"within that group, and within"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1573.84,"endTime":1577.2,"body":"any group of parents, you will"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1573.84,"endTime":1577.2,"body":"find a variety of attitudes,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1577.2,"endTime":1580.74,"body":"right? So it was interesting for"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1577.2,"endTime":1580.74,"body":"us to see who would come out and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1580.74,"endTime":1584.97,"body":"also, how does it feel to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1580.74,"endTime":1584.97,"body":"communicate perhaps if you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1584.97,"endTime":1588.6599999999999,"body":"struggle with ideas around what"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1584.97,"endTime":1588.6599999999999,"body":"it means to be trans to a person"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1588.6599999999999,"endTime":1594.24,"body":"who is themselves a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1588.6599999999999,"endTime":1594.24,"body":"trans or non binary. But what"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1594.24,"endTime":1597.33,"body":"sky relate to the study was a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1594.24,"endTime":1597.33,"body":"lovely meeting, and they were"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1597.33,"endTime":1600.99,"body":"all very keen. And we really"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1597.33,"endTime":1600.99,"body":"wanted to ensure that everyone"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1600.99,"endTime":1604.2,"body":"was comfortable with what had"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1600.99,"endTime":1604.2,"body":"been published. So they received"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1604.2,"endTime":1607.29,"body":"copies, they didn't they came"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1604.2,"endTime":1607.29,"body":"back, even, you know, there was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1607.29,"endTime":1609.45,"body":"so hopefully, when I go here,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1607.29,"endTime":1609.45,"body":"there's at least some type of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1609.45,"endTime":1612.18,"body":"make sure that is correct"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1609.45,"endTime":1612.18,"body":"itself, you know, this properly"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1612.21,"endTime":1614.58,"body":"collaboration with them."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1617.26,"endTime":1620.252,"body":"Yeah, and I think,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1617.26,"endTime":1620.252,"body":"certainly, that, although we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1620.315,"endTime":1624.072,"body":"haven't kind of particularly"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1620.315,"endTime":1624.072,"body":"addressed it quite yet, but we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1624.135,"endTime":1627.446,"body":"wanted to carry that same"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1624.135,"endTime":1627.446,"body":"thought on to the training"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1627.51,"endTime":1631.393,"body":"platform that we've developed"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1627.51,"endTime":1631.393,"body":"her firm. Because I think that,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1631.4569999999999,"endTime":1635.277,"body":"you know, we've talked a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1631.4569999999999,"endTime":1635.277,"body":"about positionality Laura and I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1635.34,"endTime":1639.033,"body":"are both very aware of our"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1635.34,"endTime":1639.033,"body":"sickness. And this kind of idea"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1639.096,"endTime":1642.98,"body":"of cis plaining transmits to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1639.096,"endTime":1642.98,"body":"people and to trans people, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1643.0439999999999,"endTime":1646.8,"body":"like, it's apparent, and we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1643.0439999999999,"endTime":1646.8,"body":"don't want to do it. And but at"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1646.864,"endTime":1650.11,"body":"the same time, we also"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1646.864,"endTime":1650.11,"body":"recognize, you know, I first"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1650.174,"endTime":1654.1209999999999,"body":"started working in the field 14"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1650.174,"endTime":1654.1209999999999,"body":"years ago. So, and I've worked"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1654.185,"endTime":1657.75,"body":"on and off in it, but, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1654.185,"endTime":1657.75,"body":"that, that we both have"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1657.8139999999999,"endTime":1661.379,"body":"significant clinical hours, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1657.8139999999999,"endTime":1661.379,"body":"know, we reckon probably"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1661.443,"endTime":1665.454,"body":"together we've maybe worked with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1661.443,"endTime":1665.454,"body":"or supported, like, 1000 trans"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1665.517,"endTime":1669.465,"body":"people, it's like, it's just,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1665.517,"endTime":1669.465,"body":"like, it's lots lots of clinical"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1669.528,"endTime":1673.221,"body":"experience. But we're not, we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1669.528,"endTime":1673.221,"body":"don't have those those lived"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1673.2839999999999,"endTime":1677.168,"body":"experiences. And so we want to,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1673.2839999999999,"endTime":1677.168,"body":"we want to kind of bring that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1677.232,"endTime":1681.242,"body":"in. And we certainly do that on"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1677.232,"endTime":1681.242,"body":"the training platform, as well."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1681.306,"endTime":1684.68,"body":"And that's where I have been"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1681.306,"endTime":1684.68,"body":"involved in interviewing"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1684.744,"endTime":1688.882,"body":"different folks, and then taking"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1684.744,"endTime":1688.882,"body":"their their stories and breaking"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1688.946,"endTime":1692.575,"body":"them up into little clips,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1688.946,"endTime":1692.575,"body":"little snippets and clips that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1692.638,"endTime":1696.4579999999999,"body":"go into the training. So that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1692.638,"endTime":1696.4579999999999,"body":"that, you know, people who who"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1696.522,"endTime":1700.6599999999999,"body":"are watching or or engaging with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1696.522,"endTime":1700.6599999999999,"body":"the training, kind of have these"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1700.724,"endTime":1701.1699999999998,"body":"voices."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1703.21,"endTime":1706.18,"body":"Absolutely, I do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1703.21,"endTime":1706.18,"body":"want to talk about the training"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1706.18,"endTime":1710.8,"body":"platform. And I also want to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1706.18,"endTime":1710.8,"body":"hold on to, like, one of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1710.8,"endTime":1713.62,"body":"threads that was following is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1710.8,"endTime":1713.62,"body":"loud, I want you said something"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1713.62,"endTime":1716.23,"body":"about and I'm gonna I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1713.62,"endTime":1716.23,"body":"paraphrase, because I don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1716.23,"endTime":1718.75,"body":"remember your exact words. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1716.23,"endTime":1718.75,"body":"you know, when you start, you're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1718.75,"endTime":1721.87,"body":"working in the clinic, like you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1718.75,"endTime":1721.87,"body":"never met a trans person, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1721.87,"endTime":1725.29,"body":"And you really were like, What"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1721.87,"endTime":1725.29,"body":"is my role? Right? Am I just,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1725.47,"endTime":1728.98,"body":"for example, guiding trans women"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1725.47,"endTime":1728.98,"body":"to understand what femininity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1728.98,"endTime":1732.43,"body":"is, right? What, what is it that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1728.98,"endTime":1732.43,"body":"I'm doing? And I think that is a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1732.43,"endTime":1736.99,"body":"really, I love the way you put"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1732.43,"endTime":1736.99,"body":"that right? And so like honest"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1736.99,"endTime":1740.23,"body":"and authentic, because, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1736.99,"endTime":1740.23,"body":"know, for myself, even as a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1740.23,"endTime":1743.62,"body":"trans person, I know what to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1740.23,"endTime":1743.62,"body":"unlearn a lot of internalized"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1743.62,"endTime":1746.8899999999999,"body":"cisgender ism, right, the words"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1743.62,"endTime":1746.8899999999999,"body":"we use to use, like when I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1746.8899999999999,"endTime":1749.98,"body":"started writing, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1746.8899999999999,"endTime":1749.98,"body":"used to use needles, sex, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1749.98,"endTime":1754.33,"body":"know, we used to say male"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1749.98,"endTime":1754.33,"body":"bodied, female bodied, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1754.36,"endTime":1758.32,"body":"in like, it was really other"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1754.36,"endTime":1758.32,"body":"folks in the community, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1758.32,"endTime":1762.7,"body":"know, pull me aside, and when"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1758.32,"endTime":1762.7,"body":"like, when you say, male bodied"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1762.7,"endTime":1766.06,"body":"or female body, you're like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1762.7,"endTime":1766.06,"body":"reinforcing this idea, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1766.06,"endTime":1769.12,"body":"that our gender is not real or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1766.06,"endTime":1769.12,"body":"authentic and awesome. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1769.12,"endTime":1772.84,"body":"that's a really good point. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1769.12,"endTime":1772.84,"body":"I think, you know, that there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1772.84,"endTime":1776.62,"body":"a real process of unlearning,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1772.84,"endTime":1776.62,"body":"right? And really, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1776.62,"endTime":1779.1699999999998,"body":"capitalism, we would say in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1776.62,"endTime":1779.1699999999998,"body":"somatic experiencing, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1779.1699999999998,"endTime":1782.47,"body":"Those things like, Oh, if I see"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1779.1699999999998,"endTime":1782.47,"body":"somebody with a beard, it means"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1782.47,"endTime":1785.74,"body":"they're a man, for example,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1782.47,"endTime":1785.74,"body":"right? And I know lots of lovely"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1785.74,"endTime":1789.31,"body":"trans feminine folks who don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1785.74,"endTime":1789.31,"body":"have dysphoria about their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1789.31,"endTime":1792.55,"body":"beautiful beards. And so that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1789.31,"endTime":1792.55,"body":"has been a process, right? Just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1792.55,"endTime":1796.1499999999999,"body":"because I'm trans myself doesn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1792.55,"endTime":1796.1499999999999,"body":"mean that magically cisgender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1796.1499999999999,"endTime":1801.22,"body":"ism disappears from my mind. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1796.1499999999999,"endTime":1801.22,"body":"mean, I wish but in my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1801.22,"endTime":1803.3799999999999,"body":"experience, that's not how it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1801.22,"endTime":1803.3799999999999,"body":"works. Right. And I've had"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1803.3799999999999,"endTime":1807.1,"body":"really interesting encounters"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1803.3799999999999,"endTime":1807.1,"body":"with clients even, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1807.85,"endTime":1810.6699999999998,"body":"because we have different ideas"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1807.85,"endTime":1810.6699999999998,"body":"of gender, you know, and often"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1810.6699999999998,"endTime":1814.99,"body":"I'm like, Well, I say to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1810.6699999999998,"endTime":1814.99,"body":"clients, my job is not to impose"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1814.99,"endTime":1817.69,"body":"my ideas of gender and your with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1814.99,"endTime":1817.69,"body":"my job is just to ask you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1817.69,"endTime":1820.6,"body":"questions to help you think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1817.69,"endTime":1820.6,"body":"critically about the choices you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1820.6,"endTime":1824.02,"body":"want to make, so that you make"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1820.6,"endTime":1824.02,"body":"the best choices for yourself."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1824.05,"endTime":1829.09,"body":"Right? And it's just like, in so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1824.05,"endTime":1829.09,"body":"I'm really curious about what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1829.09,"endTime":1833.77,"body":"did you find maybe, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1829.09,"endTime":1833.77,"body":"within the realm of what you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1833.8,"endTime":1837.34,"body":"Feel comfortable disclosing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1833.8,"endTime":1837.34,"body":"public? What did you find the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1837.34,"endTime":1842.11,"body":"most challenging concept to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1837.34,"endTime":1842.11,"body":"unlearn around gender? If that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1842.11,"endTime":1845.44,"body":"makes sense? What was one of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1842.11,"endTime":1845.44,"body":"things that really was like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1845.44,"endTime":1849.46,"body":"wow, this is a hard one for me."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1845.44,"endTime":1849.46,"body":"I know what like I had my my"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1849.46,"endTime":1853.06,"body":"share, as somebody was brought"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1849.46,"endTime":1853.06,"body":"up as a second wave feminist in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1853.06,"endTime":1857.5,"body":"terms of shedding, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1853.06,"endTime":1857.5,"body":"that cisgender ism. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":1857.5,"endTime":1859.27,"body":"I'm curious about for you both."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1860.86,"endTime":1866.62,"body":"I think that, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1860.86,"endTime":1866.62,"body":"not sure if it's unlearning. But"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1866.62,"endTime":1870.43,"body":"yeah, the things that have been"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1866.62,"endTime":1870.43,"body":"most interesting to me, and this"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1870.43,"endTime":1873.22,"body":"is actually something I was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1870.43,"endTime":1873.22,"body":"talking with my husband about."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1873.22,"endTime":1875.8899999999999,"body":"And he put it even more"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1873.22,"endTime":1875.8899999999999,"body":"beautifully than I could ever."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1876.55,"endTime":1881.08,"body":"And it's this idea of the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1876.55,"endTime":1881.08,"body":"assumption of sameness, right?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1881.56,"endTime":1886.54,"body":"Just because we share a human"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1881.56,"endTime":1886.54,"body":"body. That doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1886.57,"endTime":1890.44,"body":"anything, right? I don't know"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1886.57,"endTime":1890.44,"body":"what you know. And you can see"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1890.44,"endTime":1892.69,"body":"it, for example, on the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1890.44,"endTime":1892.69,"body":"perception of color, you put a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1892.69,"endTime":1894.73,"body":"green and a blue, and some"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1892.69,"endTime":1894.73,"body":"people say no, this is blue,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1894.76,"endTime":1897.9099999999999,"body":"this is green, right? And they"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1894.76,"endTime":1897.9099999999999,"body":"say, gray area in between,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1897.9099999999999,"endTime":1902.23,"body":"metaphorically, not literally,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1897.9099999999999,"endTime":1902.23,"body":"where you cannot really tell the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1902.23,"endTime":1906.8799999999999,"body":"difference, right? Or pain? How"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1902.23,"endTime":1906.8799999999999,"body":"do we evaluate pain? How do we"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1906.8799999999999,"endTime":1910.93,"body":"evaluate this very intrinsic"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1906.8799999999999,"endTime":1910.93,"body":"human and phenomenological"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1910.93,"endTime":1915.22,"body":"experiences of our bodies and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1910.93,"endTime":1915.22,"body":"who we are in our environment."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1916.09,"endTime":1918.61,"body":"And I think that when it comes"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1916.09,"endTime":1918.61,"body":"to gender diversity, that is the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1918.61,"endTime":1921.6699999999998,"body":"beauty of it, the you will be"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1918.61,"endTime":1921.6699999999998,"body":"confronted with things that you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1921.6699999999998,"endTime":1926.68,"body":"don't quite understand, yet you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1921.6699999999998,"endTime":1926.68,"body":"have to rely on on the other"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1926.68,"endTime":1929.26,"body":"person, you know, that actually,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1926.68,"endTime":1929.26,"body":"you know, it sounds like they're"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1929.26,"endTime":1931.84,"body":"saying, and they know what"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1929.26,"endTime":1931.84,"body":"they're talking about. And"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1931.84,"endTime":1935.2,"body":"there's nothing really psychotic"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1931.84,"endTime":1935.2,"body":"about their experience is just"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1935.2,"endTime":1939.58,"body":"as different from my own. So who"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1935.2,"endTime":1939.58,"body":"am I really to make a judgement,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1939.58,"endTime":1943.75,"body":"now you are invalid. And then"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1939.58,"endTime":1943.75,"body":"when we mix this with neuro"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1943.75,"endTime":1947.83,"body":"diversity, you know, and feeling"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1943.75,"endTime":1947.83,"body":"your body differently with"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1947.83,"endTime":1950.68,"body":"interoception extra perception,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1947.83,"endTime":1950.68,"body":"all of these sensations that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1950.68,"endTime":1954.61,"body":"vary so greatly for people who"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1950.68,"endTime":1954.61,"body":"are neurodiverse, from people"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1954.61,"endTime":1959.05,"body":"who are neurotypical, then it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1954.61,"endTime":1959.05,"body":"even more, I think that now"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1960.19,"endTime":1963.9099999999999,"body":"starting as well, I sort of when"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1960.19,"endTime":1963.9099999999999,"body":"looking back at the time that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1963.9099999999999,"endTime":1967.84,"body":"I've been in the field, how at"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1963.9099999999999,"endTime":1967.84,"body":"the start, when there were some"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1967.84,"endTime":1971.86,"body":"non binary folk who wanted to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1967.84,"endTime":1971.86,"body":"access top surgery without their"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1971.86,"endTime":1976.6599999999999,"body":"nipples. This was like rare"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1971.86,"endTime":1976.6599999999999,"body":"study, right? You really need to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1976.6599999999999,"endTime":1980.53,"body":"think about it, there must be"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1976.6599999999999,"endTime":1980.53,"body":"something wrong. All people have"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1980.53,"endTime":1983.59,"body":"nipples, why would you refuse"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1980.53,"endTime":1983.59,"body":"this, and what I'm finding most"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1983.59,"endTime":1986.1699999999998,"body":"recently is that there are a lot"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1983.59,"endTime":1986.1699999999998,"body":"of neurodiverse people who have"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1986.1699999999998,"endTime":1988.78,"body":"a hypersensitivity to their"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1986.1699999999998,"endTime":1988.78,"body":"nipples. And that is making my"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1988.78,"endTime":1992.6499999999999,"body":"life difficult. I walk around,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1988.78,"endTime":1992.6499999999999,"body":"like this pulling my shirt so"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1992.6499999999999,"endTime":1997.09,"body":"that I don't feel this. So it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1992.6499999999999,"endTime":1997.09,"body":"just inconvenient. You know? So"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1997.09,"endTime":2001.5,"body":"again, it's about it's about"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":1997.09,"endTime":2001.5,"body":"helping people feel comfortable"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2001.5,"endTime":2004.56,"body":"in their own bodies. And it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2001.5,"endTime":2004.56,"body":"about challenging, whatever we"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2004.56,"endTime":2008.79,"body":"feel normal is, right, because"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2004.56,"endTime":2008.79,"body":"we might be abnormal in another"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2008.79,"endTime":2010.35,"body":"society in another culture."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2012.51,"endTime":2016.95,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2012.51,"endTime":2016.95,"body":"absolutely endorse what what"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2016.95,"endTime":2021.03,"body":"Laura said, I suppose I was kind"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2016.95,"endTime":2021.03,"body":"of thinking after you asked Alex"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2021.03,"endTime":2025.62,"body":"of, of what, what the challenge"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2021.03,"endTime":2025.62,"body":"has been for me, and I suppose,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2027.03,"endTime":2030.18,"body":"something that I've noticed, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2027.03,"endTime":2030.18,"body":"know, that when I first started"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2030.18,"endTime":2032.55,"body":"working in the field, you talked"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2030.18,"endTime":2032.55,"body":"about different language that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2032.55,"endTime":2037.35,"body":"was used, and so on. So in 2010,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2032.55,"endTime":2037.35,"body":"you know, non binary was not"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2037.86,"endTime":2042.4199999999998,"body":"available, there's not really a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2037.86,"endTime":2042.4199999999998,"body":"an idea. And I realized that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2042.4199999999998,"endTime":2045.6599999999999,"body":"that basically my position in"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2042.4199999999998,"endTime":2045.6599999999999,"body":"the clinic, and I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2045.69,"endTime":2052.02,"body":"assessing clients, I was doing"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2045.69,"endTime":2052.02,"body":"psychotherapy, with trans non"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2052.02,"endTime":2056.37,"body":"binary folk to help them kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2052.02,"endTime":2056.37,"body":"either make sense of their"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2056.37,"endTime":2058.65,"body":"decisions and their gender"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2056.37,"endTime":2058.65,"body":"identity and explore it with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2058.65,"endTime":2063.75,"body":"them, or deal with challenges in"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2058.65,"endTime":2063.75,"body":"living as a result of their"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2063.75,"endTime":2066.9300000000003,"body":"gender identity, either how it"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2063.75,"endTime":2066.9300000000003,"body":"affected their relationships"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2066.9300000000003,"endTime":2071.73,"body":"with families and those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2066.9300000000003,"endTime":2071.73,"body":"things. But one thing I've"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2071.73,"endTime":2076.59,"body":"become perhaps aware of is, even"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2071.73,"endTime":2076.59,"body":"though theoretically, we talked"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2076.59,"endTime":2079.32,"body":"about it a lot in my training,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2076.59,"endTime":2079.32,"body":"which is how to sit with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2079.32,"endTime":2082.65,"body":"uncertainty. And be okay with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2079.32,"endTime":2082.65,"body":"it. You know, we're kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2082.65,"endTime":2085.02,"body":"like, we're modeling"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2082.65,"endTime":2085.02,"body":"uncertainty, we're okay with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2085.02,"endTime":2088.2000000000003,"body":"sitting with, but in fact, when"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2085.02,"endTime":2088.2000000000003,"body":"you think about it, gender wise"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2088.2000000000003,"endTime":2092.55,"body":"the temptation to try and kind"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2088.2000000000003,"endTime":2092.55,"body":"of move into a certainty into a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2092.55,"endTime":2095.4,"body":"binary and just go, Okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2092.55,"endTime":2095.4,"body":"you're completely and utterly"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2095.4,"endTime":2099.84,"body":"clear that you are you have a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2095.4,"endTime":2099.84,"body":"female gender identity, or you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2099.84,"endTime":2102.3900000000003,"body":"are kind of feminine, or, or"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2099.84,"endTime":2102.3900000000003,"body":"masculine or whatever. And"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2102.3900000000003,"endTime":2105.15,"body":"that's clear, it never changes."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2102.3900000000003,"endTime":2105.15,"body":"And it's like, okay, everyone"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2105.15,"endTime":2110.1600000000003,"body":"can kind of relax and we can go"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2105.15,"endTime":2110.1600000000003,"body":"into our boxes. I think one of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2110.1600000000003,"endTime":2114.3,"body":"the the, one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2110.1600000000003,"endTime":2114.3,"body":"continues to be challenging for"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2114.3,"endTime":2119.55,"body":"me is is to be okay with and to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2114.3,"endTime":2119.55,"body":"allow uncertainty and not"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2119.55,"endTime":2126.21,"body":"knowing. And yeah, and even, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2119.55,"endTime":2126.21,"body":"know, that the end point of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2126.21,"endTime":2129.3300000000004,"body":"therapy might be a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2126.21,"endTime":2129.3300000000004,"body":"comfortability with uncertainty"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2129.3300000000004,"endTime":2133.8,"body":"rather than a certainty that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2129.3300000000004,"endTime":2133.8,"body":"kind of indicates that there"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2133.8,"endTime":2137.5800000000004,"body":"He's done now because we're all"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2133.8,"endTime":2137.5800000000004,"body":"certain. And everything. So I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2137.5800000000004,"endTime":2139.9500000000003,"body":"suppose there's all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2137.5800000000004,"endTime":2139.9500000000003,"body":"tangents I could go off in in"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2139.9500000000003,"endTime":2146.4900000000002,"body":"that, but I suppose, yes,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2139.9500000000003,"endTime":2146.4900000000002,"body":"there's this kind of real pull"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2146.9100000000003,"endTime":2152.2200000000003,"body":"towards gender norms and fitting"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2146.9100000000003,"endTime":2152.2200000000003,"body":"in a box and being a Oh, you're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2152.2200000000003,"endTime":2157.71,"body":"one of those. Okay, so there we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2152.2200000000003,"endTime":2157.71,"body":"go. You want that to be to be"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2157.7400000000002,"endTime":2161.2200000000003,"body":"more relaxed or more okay with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2157.7400000000002,"endTime":2161.2200000000003,"body":"the stuff that we don't know."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2162.4790000000003,"endTime":2165.121,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2162.4790000000003,"endTime":2165.121,"body":"there's so much more in line"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2165.181,"endTime":2168.784,"body":"with what we know even about how"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2165.181,"endTime":2168.784,"body":"our brain works in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2168.844,"endTime":2172.027,"body":"neuroplasticity. And so why"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2168.844,"endTime":2172.027,"body":"would our gender identity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2172.087,"endTime":2175.75,"body":"necessarily safe, like fixed in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2172.087,"endTime":2175.75,"body":"one place? You know? And, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2175.8100000000004,"endTime":2179.7140000000004,"body":"yeah, we have come a long way. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2175.8100000000004,"endTime":2179.7140000000004,"body":"got my top surgery back in 2010."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2179.7740000000003,"endTime":2183.4970000000003,"body":"And it just was not a thing. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2179.7740000000003,"endTime":2183.4970000000003,"body":"mean, yes. You know, my surgeon"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2183.5570000000002,"endTime":2187.1000000000004,"body":"talked about you. We can do a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2183.5570000000002,"endTime":2187.1000000000004,"body":"nipple grafting, but we don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2187.1600000000003,"endTime":2190.583,"body":"have to, you can do surgical"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2187.1600000000003,"endTime":2190.583,"body":"tattooing, right. But even a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2190.643,"endTime":2194.1870000000004,"body":"handful of years ago, it was,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2190.643,"endTime":2194.1870000000004,"body":"you know, and I wasn't taking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2194.2470000000003,"endTime":2197.9100000000003,"body":"hormones. So we had to put that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2194.2470000000003,"endTime":2197.9100000000003,"body":"in the letter, and why and we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2197.9700000000003,"endTime":2201.453,"body":"didn't have non binary language,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2197.9700000000003,"endTime":2201.453,"body":"right. And it was, it was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2201.5130000000004,"endTime":2204.876,"body":"definitely an interesting"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2201.5130000000004,"endTime":2204.876,"body":"experience. And I was lucky to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2204.936,"endTime":2208.599,"body":"get approved by insurance here,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2204.936,"endTime":2208.599,"body":"I get it. But it was like, if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2208.659,"endTime":2212.0820000000003,"body":"you don't take the classroom"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2208.659,"endTime":2212.0820000000003,"body":"before you have top surgery,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2212.1420000000003,"endTime":2215.9260000000004,"body":"that's not our plan. Right? Now,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2212.1420000000003,"endTime":2215.9260000000004,"body":"that's not even a thing that I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2215.9860000000003,"endTime":2219.529,"body":"need to put in letters. By and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2215.9860000000003,"endTime":2219.529,"body":"large, if somebody is not on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2219.5890000000004,"endTime":2222.8920000000003,"body":"hormones and want to pursue"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2219.5890000000004,"endTime":2222.8920000000003,"body":"other body modification for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2222.952,"endTime":2226.735,"body":"surgical intervention, it's not"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2222.952,"endTime":2226.735,"body":"not even a consideration pretty"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2226.795,"endTime":2230.639,"body":"much anymore, in most cases, at"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2226.795,"endTime":2230.639,"body":"least in kind of my geographical"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2230.699,"endTime":2234.302,"body":"context, so the things have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2230.699,"endTime":2234.302,"body":"changed so much. And I love what"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2234.362,"endTime":2237.905,"body":"you said about uncertainty. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2234.362,"endTime":2237.905,"body":"often talk with clients about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2237.965,"endTime":2241.6890000000003,"body":"like, yeah, you can, you can be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2237.965,"endTime":2241.6890000000003,"body":"90% Sure, it's okay. Like, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2241.7490000000003,"endTime":2245.532,"body":"also you're probably gonna have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2241.7490000000003,"endTime":2245.532,"body":"lots of different feelings. You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2245.592,"endTime":2249.135,"body":"know, and I think that folks"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2245.592,"endTime":2249.135,"body":"feel like I have to be certain"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2249.195,"endTime":2252.9790000000003,"body":"and otherwise, I'm a bad trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2249.195,"endTime":2252.9790000000003,"body":"person. And then, you know, then"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2253.039,"endTime":2256.6420000000003,"body":"that, you know, conservative"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2253.039,"endTime":2256.6420000000003,"body":"folks are going to use me as an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2256.702,"endTime":2260.065,"body":"example of like, See, people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2256.702,"endTime":2260.065,"body":"make choices, and then they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2260.125,"endTime":2263.9680000000003,"body":"regret them. I was like, humans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2260.125,"endTime":2263.9680000000003,"body":"make choices they regret all the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2264.0280000000002,"endTime":2267.632,"body":"time. And most of the choices"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2264.0280000000002,"endTime":2267.632,"body":"I've regretted have nothing to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2267.692,"endTime":2271.4750000000004,"body":"do with gender. Personally. You"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2267.692,"endTime":2271.4750000000004,"body":"know, I also work with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2271.5350000000003,"endTime":2275.318,"body":"cis people will regret all sorts"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2271.5350000000003,"endTime":2275.318,"body":"of things, right. But there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2275.378,"endTime":2278.681,"body":"this pressure that we put on"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2275.378,"endTime":2278.681,"body":"gender to be like us to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2278.741,"endTime":2282.645,"body":"absolutely sure. And that really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2278.741,"endTime":2282.645,"body":"is just now human nature. Right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2282.7050000000004,"endTime":2286.308,"body":"We were assures can be, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2282.7050000000004,"endTime":2286.308,"body":"there is that piece, sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2286.3680000000004,"endTime":2289.851,"body":"even talk to clients like oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2286.3680000000004,"endTime":2289.851,"body":"you know, like there is this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2289.911,"endTime":2293.635,"body":"concept of embodied cognition,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2289.911,"endTime":2293.635,"body":"right. Merleau Ponty? Like it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2293.695,"endTime":2297.1780000000003,"body":"okay, if you're not sure, if"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2293.695,"endTime":2297.1780000000003,"body":"you're not gonna know exactly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2297.2380000000003,"endTime":2301.081,"body":"how you feel, or Norman's until"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2297.2380000000003,"endTime":2301.081,"body":"your normals, that's the reality"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2301.141,"endTime":2304.8050000000003,"body":"of it, you can make the best"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2301.141,"endTime":2304.8050000000003,"body":"guess you can, you know, you can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2304.8650000000002,"endTime":2308.708,"body":"feel like, I think more or less,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2304.8650000000002,"endTime":2308.708,"body":"this is what I want. But you're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2308.768,"endTime":2312.5510000000004,"body":"not going to know how it feels"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2308.768,"endTime":2312.5510000000004,"body":"in your body, right until you've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2312.6110000000003,"endTime":2316.0350000000003,"body":"made that change. And so I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2312.6110000000003,"endTime":2316.0350000000003,"body":"everything you're saying,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2316.0950000000003,"endTime":2319.3970000000004,"body":"because I think it really, we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2316.0950000000003,"endTime":2319.3970000000004,"body":"need to change the way we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2319.458,"endTime":2322.8810000000003,"body":"approach transports because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2319.458,"endTime":2322.8810000000003,"body":"there's so much pressure. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2322.9410000000003,"endTime":2326.244,"body":"then you have this very cookie"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2322.9410000000003,"endTime":2326.244,"body":"cutter stories, right? I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2326.304,"endTime":2329.246,"body":"remember when I started,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2326.304,"endTime":2329.246,"body":"especially in the gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2329.306,"endTime":2333.15,"body":"identity clinic, when I started"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2329.306,"endTime":2333.15,"body":"working with trans people, I was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2333.21,"endTime":2337.1130000000003,"body":"like, Okay, you're giving me the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2333.21,"endTime":2337.1130000000003,"body":"spiel, right? I always felt like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2337.1730000000002,"endTime":2340.7160000000003,"body":"it was just really boring."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2337.1730000000002,"endTime":2340.7160000000003,"body":"Sometimes I would have to say to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2340.7760000000003,"endTime":2344.38,"body":"people, I'm like, That's great."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2340.7760000000003,"endTime":2344.38,"body":"I'm glad that's the official"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2344.44,"endTime":2347.9230000000002,"body":"story. I'm not withholding the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2344.44,"endTime":2347.9230000000002,"body":"letter from you. I actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2347.983,"endTime":2351.5260000000003,"body":"would like to have an authentic"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2347.983,"endTime":2351.5260000000003,"body":"conversation to understand,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2351.5860000000002,"endTime":2354.829,"body":"right, because, and I don't know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2351.5860000000002,"endTime":2354.829,"body":"if that was ever your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2354.889,"endTime":2358.492,"body":"experience. But definitely, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2354.889,"endTime":2358.492,"body":"know, even 15 years ago, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2358.552,"endTime":2362.0350000000003,"body":"would get this very like, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2358.552,"endTime":2362.0350000000003,"body":"is what I need to do. To go"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2362.0950000000003,"endTime":2365.398,"body":"through the hoops I need to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2362.0950000000003,"endTime":2365.398,"body":"perform my gender in a very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2365.458,"endTime":2366.84,"body":"normative way. Exactly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2367.65,"endTime":2370.29,"body":"I mean, I think one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2367.65,"endTime":2370.29,"body":"the things that shocked me, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.29,"endTime":2377.19,"body":"mean, the clinic that both Laura"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.29,"endTime":2377.19,"body":"and I met in some years back, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.19,"endTime":2381.09,"body":"think has or certainly positions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.19,"endTime":2381.09,"body":"itself as the oldest or one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.09,"endTime":2384.03,"body":"the oldest gender clinics in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.09,"endTime":2384.03,"body":"world. Charing Cross Hospital"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.0600000000004,"endTime":2390.4500000000003,"body":"used to be. But I was stunned to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.0600000000004,"endTime":2390.4500000000003,"body":"find out that until reasonably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2390.4500000000003,"endTime":2395.19,"body":"recently, I'm going to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2390.4500000000003,"endTime":2395.19,"body":"probably the 90s. The idea was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.19,"endTime":2399.7200000000003,"body":"that conditions would only well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.19,"endTime":2399.7200000000003,"body":"they ostensibly saw far more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2399.7200000000003,"endTime":2404.1600000000003,"body":"trans women than they saw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2399.7200000000003,"endTime":2404.1600000000003,"body":"transplant. And ostensibly, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.1600000000003,"endTime":2407.04,"body":"would only allow them to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.1600000000003,"endTime":2407.04,"body":"forward for treatment if they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.04,"endTime":2411.54,"body":"believe they had a substantial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.04,"endTime":2411.54,"body":"chance of passing. And so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.54,"endTime":2416.76,"body":"whole idea was that you had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.54,"endTime":2416.76,"body":"kind of convince the doctor that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.76,"endTime":2422.82,"body":"you could pass for a specific"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.76,"endTime":2422.82,"body":"person or assist person. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.82,"endTime":2426.78,"body":"that's just, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.82,"endTime":2426.78,"body":"speechless with that. It's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.78,"endTime":2430.8900000000003,"body":"like, it's horrific. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.78,"endTime":2430.8900000000003,"body":"attitude, certainly I think, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.8900000000003,"endTime":2436.2000000000003,"body":"don't know, virus speak to that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.8900000000003,"endTime":2436.2000000000003,"body":"herself, but I think it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2436.2000000000003,"endTime":2441.75,"body":"still kind of around in it, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2436.2000000000003,"endTime":2441.75,"body":"was not obviously policy in any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.75,"endTime":2445.32,"body":"way at all. But that sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.75,"endTime":2445.32,"body":"that the center of it kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.32,"endTime":2450.09,"body":"lingered on a bit, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.32,"endTime":2450.09,"body":"people would present for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.2400000000002,"endTime":2453.48,"body":"assessment a little bit in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.2400000000002,"endTime":2453.48,"body":"kind of like, I'm, I've got to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2453.48,"endTime":2455.5800000000004,"body":"do the best job I can to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2453.48,"endTime":2455.5800000000004,"body":"convince you."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2457.8,"endTime":2463.05,"body":"I absolutely see that."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2457.8,"endTime":2463.05,"body":"And I can almost almost not"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2463.0800000000004,"endTime":2471.15,"body":"fully on to feeling that because"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2463.0800000000004,"endTime":2471.15,"body":"I guess it is a lot easier to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2471.2400000000002,"endTime":2475.6200000000003,"body":"validate and believe someone who"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2471.2400000000002,"endTime":2475.6200000000003,"body":"matches your expectations,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2475.6200000000003,"endTime":2479.3700000000003,"body":"right? If you are a trans woman"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2475.6200000000003,"endTime":2479.3700000000003,"body":"who is tremendously feminine,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2479.3700000000003,"endTime":2483.48,"body":"who has a very high pitch boys"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2479.3700000000003,"endTime":2483.48,"body":"who loves to wear high heels and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2483.48,"endTime":2487.5,"body":"makeup, you're absolutely you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2483.48,"endTime":2487.5,"body":"are a woman. However, if you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2487.5,"endTime":2492.48,"body":"happen to be a person who used"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2487.5,"endTime":2492.48,"body":"to be a bodybuilder, who is very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2492.51,"endTime":2496.77,"body":"typically very masculine in the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2492.51,"endTime":2496.77,"body":"body characteristics, then"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2496.77,"endTime":2501.42,"body":"suddenly you, you show Are you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2496.77,"endTime":2501.42,"body":"sure, and this is something that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2501.54,"endTime":2506.1000000000004,"body":"every time I need to stop myself"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2501.54,"endTime":2506.1000000000004,"body":"from having that automatic"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2506.13,"endTime":2509.79,"body":"reaction. And I think that this"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2506.13,"endTime":2509.79,"body":"is a lot as well, part of what"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2510.9900000000002,"endTime":2514.32,"body":"Michael and I are really wanting"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2510.9900000000002,"endTime":2514.32,"body":"to work on when it comes to the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2514.32,"endTime":2517.5600000000004,"body":"librium this trainings through a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2514.32,"endTime":2517.5600000000004,"body":"firm, you know, is that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2517.5600000000004,"endTime":2520.65,"body":"reflexivity of the clinicians"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2517.5600000000004,"endTime":2520.65,"body":"and the same way that there is"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2520.65,"endTime":2524.8500000000004,"body":"this whole beautiful and amazing"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2520.65,"endTime":2524.8500000000004,"body":"movement around you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2524.9700000000003,"endTime":2529.71,"body":"challenging your own racism, and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2524.9700000000003,"endTime":2529.71,"body":"not being blamed for about it"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2529.71,"endTime":2532.59,"body":"simply you have grown up with"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2529.71,"endTime":2532.59,"body":"these ideas about people who are"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2532.59,"endTime":2535.9500000000003,"body":"different from you. This is the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2532.59,"endTime":2535.9500000000003,"body":"same basics that we need to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2535.9500000000003,"endTime":2541.8300000000004,"body":"apply to gender and to translate"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2535.9500000000003,"endTime":2541.8300000000004,"body":"well, you know, I'm always I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2541.8300000000004,"endTime":2545.46,"body":"feel it's okay. But there's a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2541.8300000000004,"endTime":2545.46,"body":"little bit of me that feels sad."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2545.7000000000003,"endTime":2550.0800000000004,"body":"Every time a patient says, Can I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2545.7000000000003,"endTime":2550.0800000000004,"body":"talk to you about my sexuality?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2550.0800000000004,"endTime":2552.96,"body":"Like, is it okay? Are you going"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2550.0800000000004,"endTime":2552.96,"body":"to think that, like the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2552.96,"endTime":2555.63,"body":"underlying speech says is are"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2552.96,"endTime":2555.63,"body":"you going to think I'm a sexual"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2555.63,"endTime":2558.4500000000003,"body":"deviant because I have sexual"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2555.63,"endTime":2558.4500000000003,"body":"feelings and I'm trans you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2560.1000000000004,"endTime":2566.1000000000004,"body":"in a see it time and time again,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2560.1000000000004,"endTime":2566.1000000000004,"body":"how B is medicalization of trans"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2566.1000000000004,"endTime":2570.2400000000002,"body":"identities and of gender"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2566.1000000000004,"endTime":2570.2400000000002,"body":"diversity leads to sexual"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2570.2400000000002,"endTime":2573.36,"body":"repression for transport,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2570.2400000000002,"endTime":2573.36,"body":"particularly for trans feminine"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2573.7200000000003,"endTime":2577.6800000000003,"body":"people. And I really enjoy the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2573.7200000000003,"endTime":2577.6800000000003,"body":"part of the psychotherapeutic"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2577.6800000000003,"endTime":2581.1600000000003,"body":"work that is about liberating,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2577.6800000000003,"endTime":2581.1600000000003,"body":"you know, helping people to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2581.1600000000003,"endTime":2584.82,"body":"liberate themselves to enjoy"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2581.1600000000003,"endTime":2584.82,"body":"themselves and to say, you have"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2584.82,"endTime":2589.5,"body":"the right to enjoy is your body"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2584.82,"endTime":2589.5,"body":"is for you to take into on and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2589.5,"endTime":2595.23,"body":"to use them in whichever way you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2589.5,"endTime":2595.23,"body":"feel is best. And I think that,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2595.6200000000003,"endTime":2599.94,"body":"that said, like, there's a part"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2595.6200000000003,"endTime":2599.94,"body":"of me that so looks forward to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2600.1800000000003,"endTime":2605.88,"body":"30 years from now, looking back"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2600.1800000000003,"endTime":2605.88,"body":"and saying was in that fact that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2605.9100000000003,"endTime":2612.8100000000004,"body":"sorry, I'm just gonna sweat"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2605.9100000000003,"endTime":2612.8100000000004,"body":"within that tab, about how, how"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2612.84,"endTime":2616.8300000000004,"body":"help we lead the lives of trans"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2612.84,"endTime":2616.8300000000004,"body":"and non binary people? Well,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2617.46,"endTime":2620.19,"body":"because at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2617.46,"endTime":2620.19,"body":"there's, there's an element"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2620.19,"endTime":2625.8300000000004,"body":"about what your core beliefs as"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2620.19,"endTime":2625.8300000000004,"body":"an individual, about the human"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2626.07,"endTime":2630.48,"body":"rights of people, do you think"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2626.07,"endTime":2630.48,"body":"people have an ability to choose"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2630.51,"endTime":2635.52,"body":"whether they can wear whatever"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2630.51,"endTime":2635.52,"body":"clothes they want? Or any hair"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2635.52,"endTime":2639.1800000000003,"body":"they want? Can they get fillers?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2635.52,"endTime":2639.1800000000003,"body":"Can they get Botox? Is that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2639.1800000000003,"endTime":2643.5,"body":"okay? Why when we transgress"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2639.1800000000003,"endTime":2643.5,"body":"that invisible line of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2643.53,"endTime":2648.03,"body":"feminizing, masculinizing,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2643.53,"endTime":2648.03,"body":"someone suddenly becomes a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2648.03,"endTime":2654.03,"body":"political issue, I cannot"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2648.03,"endTime":2654.03,"body":"understand, you know, and in the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2654.03,"endTime":2659.1600000000003,"body":"variety of, of models from the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2654.03,"endTime":2659.1600000000003,"body":"consent model to, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2659.1600000000003,"endTime":2663.0600000000004,"body":"more guided military or police"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2659.1600000000003,"endTime":2663.0600000000004,"body":"or, you know, in the UK, it"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2663.0600000000004,"endTime":2666.69,"body":"really shapes the way in which"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2663.0600000000004,"endTime":2666.69,"body":"we interact with the people that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2666.69,"endTime":2668.73,"body":"we are aiming to serve, you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2666.69,"endTime":2668.73,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2668.7290000000003,"endTime":2673.9790000000003,"body":"and I think sorry, that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2668.7290000000003,"endTime":2673.9790000000003,"body":"the the point that just kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2673.9790000000003,"endTime":2677.039,"body":"like bubbles up and I need to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2673.9790000000003,"endTime":2677.039,"body":"talk about that is is the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2677.039,"endTime":2679.7690000000002,"body":"connection with your own"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2677.039,"endTime":2679.7690000000002,"body":"workaholics with gender trauma."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2681.029,"endTime":2685.7090000000003,"body":"And I suppose, to some extent,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2681.029,"endTime":2685.7090000000003,"body":"they're the chapter in iron, but"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2685.7090000000003,"endTime":2689.1290000000004,"body":"which parallels that in terms of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2685.7090000000003,"endTime":2689.1290000000004,"body":"identity based trauma, but this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2689.1290000000004,"endTime":2695.069,"body":"idea that we are all traumatized"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2689.1290000000004,"endTime":2695.069,"body":"by gender or socialization, and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2695.069,"endTime":2697.7690000000002,"body":"so much of what Laura's has been"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2695.069,"endTime":2697.7690000000002,"body":"talking about in terms of like"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2697.799,"endTime":2702.3590000000004,"body":"our automatic thinking and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2697.799,"endTime":2702.3590000000004,"body":"thoughts about like, what's an"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2702.3590000000004,"endTime":2705.3590000000004,"body":"appropriate trans feminine"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2702.3590000000004,"endTime":2705.3590000000004,"body":"person, what's an inappropriate"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2705.3590000000004,"endTime":2708.4790000000003,"body":"trans feminine presence? All of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2705.3590000000004,"endTime":2708.4790000000003,"body":"it is all of these stereotypes"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2708.4790000000003,"endTime":2711.719,"body":"are kind of policed into us. And"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2708.4790000000003,"endTime":2711.719,"body":"I think that's, that's why I got"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2711.719,"endTime":2716.1890000000003,"body":"into gender in the first place,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2711.719,"endTime":2716.1890000000003,"body":"because I had my masculinity"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2716.4590000000003,"endTime":2720.059,"body":"policed as a gay man, and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2716.4590000000003,"endTime":2720.059,"body":"certainly in the era in which I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2720.059,"endTime":2722.7290000000003,"body":"grew up, and I suppose"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2720.059,"endTime":2722.7290000000003,"body":"particularly maybe now as well."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2723.0890000000004,"endTime":2728.819,"body":"You can't really be a real man"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2723.0890000000004,"endTime":2728.819,"body":"if you're gay, because gayness"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2728.819,"endTime":2731.1890000000003,"body":"or homosexuality, whatever kind"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2728.819,"endTime":2731.1890000000003,"body":"of language label you want to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2731.1890000000003,"endTime":2737.819,"body":"use, is a is the opposite of of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2731.1890000000003,"endTime":2737.819,"body":"masculinity because part of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2737.819,"endTime":2741.779,"body":"masculinity is defined by"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2737.819,"endTime":2741.779,"body":"heterosexuality so you can't"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2741.779,"endTime":2744.779,"body":"really be a real man, you can"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2741.779,"endTime":2744.779,"body":"sort of be a bit. And we see it"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2744.779,"endTime":2749.039,"body":"within the communication"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2744.779,"endTime":2749.039,"body":"communities of masculinity, that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2749.039,"endTime":2752.819,"body":"there are effeminate men, or we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2749.039,"endTime":2752.819,"body":"see it within, for example, even"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2752.819,"endTime":2756.719,"body":"gay culture, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2752.819,"endTime":2756.719,"body":"like, gym bunnies are kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2756.719,"endTime":2760.469,"body":"like the ones with like, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2756.719,"endTime":2760.469,"body":"certainly in my youth of dating"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2760.469,"endTime":2763.889,"body":"with like, straight acting. So"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2760.469,"endTime":2763.889,"body":"if you are straight acting or"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2763.889,"endTime":2767.219,"body":"could pass for straight, you had"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2763.889,"endTime":2767.219,"body":"more social capital women, the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2767.219,"endTime":2771.029,"body":"kind of gay community and this,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2767.219,"endTime":2771.029,"body":"this this pernicious constant"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2773.4590000000003,"endTime":2778.1690000000003,"body":"trauma that we all kind of like"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2773.4590000000003,"endTime":2778.1690000000003,"body":"playing out on each other. For"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2778.199,"endTime":2782.549,"body":"like, how to be a real boy or"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2778.199,"endTime":2782.549,"body":"real girl, whatever it is just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2781.7090000000003,"endTime":2784.6490000000003,"body":"it's definitely,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2781.7090000000003,"endTime":2784.6490000000003,"body":"it's so ubiquitous and kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2782.549,"endTime":2782.6090000000004,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2784.6490000000003,"endTime":2787.259,"body":"lingers, right, even in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2784.6490000000003,"endTime":2787.259,"body":"early 2000s. I remember"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2787.259,"endTime":2790.8590000000004,"body":"presenting at the  conference in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2787.259,"endTime":2790.8590000000004,"body":"Norway, and people are like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2790.8590000000004,"endTime":2794.699,"body":"well, but you know, if a trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2790.8590000000004,"endTime":2794.699,"body":"man really enjoys kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2794.699,"endTime":2798.0890000000004,"body":"penetrative sex, because they're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2794.699,"endTime":2798.0890000000004,"body":"gay, are they really a trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2798.0890000000004,"endTime":2801.989,"body":"man? Or are they just like, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2798.0890000000004,"endTime":2801.989,"body":"know, some sort of confused"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2801.989,"endTime":2808.319,"body":"woman. And as a very, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2801.989,"endTime":2808.319,"body":"I'm by been very gay leaning, so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2808.319,"endTime":2812.309,"body":"to speak, transmit trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2808.319,"endTime":2812.309,"body":"masculine person, that was a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2812.309,"endTime":2814.529,"body":"to hear, right. And even in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2812.309,"endTime":2814.529,"body":"terms of gender identity"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2814.529,"endTime":2817.529,"body":"expression, right, the way I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2814.529,"endTime":2817.529,"body":"need to explain my gender,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2817.889,"endTime":2821.6090000000004,"body":"expression, like, if I'd been"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2817.889,"endTime":2821.6090000000004,"body":"born a cis boy, I would have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2821.6090000000004,"endTime":2826.199,"body":"been a very effeminate queer cis"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2821.6090000000004,"endTime":2826.199,"body":"Boy, you know, for my mom to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2826.199,"endTime":2828.239,"body":"understand that I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2826.199,"endTime":2828.239,"body":"would not have been the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2828.239,"endTime":2831.3590000000004,"body":"quarterback of the football team"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2828.239,"endTime":2831.3590000000004,"body":"in Glee. You know, I think I've"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2831.3590000000004,"endTime":2835.799,"body":"used that example before on the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2831.3590000000004,"endTime":2835.799,"body":"on the episode, but just how"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2835.799,"endTime":2839.1290000000004,"body":"that kind of people confusing"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2835.799,"endTime":2839.1290000000004,"body":"gender, for sexuality, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2839.369,"endTime":2844.049,"body":"the pathologize ation of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2839.369,"endTime":2844.049,"body":"trans women are attracted to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2844.049,"endTime":2847.319,"body":"women even, you know, in our"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2844.049,"endTime":2847.319,"body":"field, I don't even want to give"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2847.319,"endTime":2850.4990000000003,"body":"that concept, the favor of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2847.319,"endTime":2850.4990000000003,"body":"naming it actually right now."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2850.7690000000002,"endTime":2854.279,"body":"But like, even the fact that the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2850.7690000000002,"endTime":2854.279,"body":"concept persists some people buy"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2854.279,"endTime":2857.9390000000003,"body":"into it, and also the same young"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2854.279,"endTime":2857.9390000000003,"body":"people then find it right often"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2857.969,"endTime":2860.909,"body":"about young trans feminine"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2857.969,"endTime":2860.909,"body":"people are like, that's the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2860.909,"endTime":2865.469,"body":"first concept I came across, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2860.909,"endTime":2865.469,"body":"know, and so how do I then feel"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2865.469,"endTime":2869.549,"body":"like, um, you know, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2865.469,"endTime":2869.549,"body":"the concept of pathology, right,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2869.549,"endTime":2874.619,"body":"and so like that, that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2869.549,"endTime":2874.619,"body":"lingering, is still very much"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2874.619,"endTime":2877.079,"body":"like seeping in the field, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2874.619,"endTime":2877.079,"body":"know, and it wasn't that long"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2877.079,"endTime":2880.949,"body":"ago, like, you know, even, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2877.079,"endTime":2880.949,"body":"know, in my own lifetime, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2880.9790000000003,"endTime":2884.159,"body":"the university based gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2880.9790000000003,"endTime":2884.159,"body":"identity clinic, I used to work,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2884.159,"endTime":2888.329,"body":"I used to have panels, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2884.159,"endTime":2888.329,"body":"before my time, but in the 80s,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2888.3590000000004,"endTime":2891.539,"body":"I think, still were like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2888.3590000000004,"endTime":2891.539,"body":"members of the public deciding"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2891.539,"endTime":2894.4190000000003,"body":"if somebody was masculine or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2891.539,"endTime":2894.4190000000003,"body":"feminine enough, that they could"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2894.4190000000003,"endTime":2897.3590000000004,"body":"get access to more money in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2894.4190000000003,"endTime":2897.3590000000004,"body":"surgery, or, you know, front"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2897.3590000000004,"endTime":2900.599,"body":"office staff giving makeup"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2897.3590000000004,"endTime":2900.599,"body":"lessons to trans feminine folks,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2900.599,"endTime":2904.199,"body":"you know, we're talking within"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2900.599,"endTime":2904.199,"body":"my life, you know, and even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2904.199,"endTime":2906.8390000000004,"body":"within my own professional"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2904.199,"endTime":2906.8390000000004,"body":"identity lifetime, I went from"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2906.8390000000004,"endTime":2910.7090000000003,"body":"having to diagnose gender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2906.8390000000004,"endTime":2910.7090000000003,"body":"identity disorder, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2910.7090000000003,"endTime":2913.949,"body":"now we have the ICD 11, with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2910.7090000000003,"endTime":2913.949,"body":"gender incongruence. And that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2913.9790000000003,"endTime":2917.369,"body":"that isn't irrelevant, that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2913.9790000000003,"endTime":2917.369,"body":"two decades. It's a very, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2917.369,"endTime":2921.4190000000003,"body":"things have changed very quickly"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2917.369,"endTime":2921.4190000000003,"body":"in some ways. But things are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2921.4190000000003,"endTime":2924.599,"body":"also swinging back. And there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2921.4190000000003,"endTime":2924.599,"body":"the oldest transatlantic, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2924.599,"endTime":2927.3590000000004,"body":"I'm doing a talk about that. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2924.599,"endTime":2927.3590000000004,"body":"I do want to talk about your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2927.3590000000004,"endTime":2930.4790000000003,"body":"platform. Tell me about the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2927.3590000000004,"endTime":2930.4790000000003,"body":"training platform that you put"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2930.4790000000003,"endTime":2935.009,"body":"together. You know, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2930.4790000000003,"endTime":2935.009,"body":"affirm.lgbt. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2935.009,"endTime":2938.489,"body":"we'll put that in the episode"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2935.009,"endTime":2938.489,"body":"description. But yes, tell, tell"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2938.489,"endTime":2941.969,"body":"us about the, the training"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2938.489,"endTime":2941.969,"body":"platform and what motivated you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":2941.969,"endTime":2943.1090000000004,"body":"to put that together."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2946.4390000000003,"endTime":2949.1090000000004,"body":"I think that as you can"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2946.4390000000003,"endTime":2949.1090000000004,"body":"see, Michael and I can speak for"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2949.1090000000004,"endTime":2955.829,"body":"hours. So we needed a platform."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2949.1090000000004,"endTime":2955.829,"body":"Maybe we have a whole other"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2956.279,"endTime":2963.6290000000004,"body":"episode about that, wejust have"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2956.279,"endTime":2963.6290000000004,"body":"to get scheduled. (all laugh)"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2963.6600000000003,"endTime":2971.79,"body":"But yeah, I think that, you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2963.6600000000003,"endTime":2971.79,"body":"know, it's I was always very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2971.79,"endTime":2976.8300000000004,"body":"frustrated with my teachers at"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2971.79,"endTime":2976.8300000000004,"body":"university. And with lectures"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2976.8300000000004,"endTime":2980.3100000000004,"body":"being boring, with me saying, if"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2976.8300000000004,"endTime":2980.3100000000004,"body":"you're going to tell it to me"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2980.3100000000004,"endTime":2983.46,"body":"that way, I'm going to read it"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2980.3100000000004,"endTime":2983.46,"body":"at home, you know, on my"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2983.46,"endTime":2987.3300000000004,"body":"slippers, and, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2983.46,"endTime":2987.3300000000004,"body":"pajamas, there's no point in me"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2987.3300000000004,"endTime":2994.32,"body":"going in there. And I guess, I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2987.3300000000004,"endTime":2994.32,"body":"think you learn more when people"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2994.32,"endTime":2997.4700000000003,"body":"speak to you, truthfully, and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2994.32,"endTime":2997.4700000000003,"body":"from the heart and authentically"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2997.8,"endTime":3002.75,"body":"and and I think that's what we"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":2997.8,"endTime":3002.75,"body":"wanted to do. So Michael and I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3002.78,"endTime":3007.4,"body":"sat down and might will use his"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3002.78,"endTime":3007.4,"body":"amazing background in as a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3007.4,"endTime":3011.6600000000003,"body":"marketing consultant to sort of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3007.4,"endTime":3011.6600000000003,"body":"help us decide what is it that"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3011.6600000000003,"endTime":3014.9300000000003,"body":"we are and what we want to be so"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3011.6600000000003,"endTime":3014.9300000000003,"body":"Michael was the term we chose."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3014.9300000000003,"endTime":3015.26,"body":"They're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3016.9390000000003,"endTime":3022.219,"body":"the kind hearted rebel"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3016.9390000000003,"endTime":3022.219,"body":"was was our we were doing"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3022.2490000000003,"endTime":3024.889,"body":"archetype work. So my background"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3022.2490000000003,"endTime":3024.889,"body":"is in marketing and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3024.889,"endTime":3028.1290000000004,"body":"communication. So we're kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3024.889,"endTime":3028.1290000000004,"body":"doing brand development and so"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3028.1290000000004,"endTime":3031.699,"body":"on. And so we want to just be we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3028.1290000000004,"endTime":3031.699,"body":"wanted to kind of like work from"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3031.699,"endTime":3034.819,"body":"and speak from the heart and we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3031.699,"endTime":3034.819,"body":"wanted to also be a bit"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3034.819,"endTime":3037.9990000000003,"body":"rebellious, because, but within"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3034.819,"endTime":3037.9990000000003,"body":"the context of counseling"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3037.9990000000003,"endTime":3041.029,"body":"psychology, or maybe clinical"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3037.9990000000003,"endTime":3041.029,"body":"psychology where we have to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3041.029,"endTime":3046.3390000000004,"body":"color between the lines and you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3041.029,"endTime":3046.3390000000004,"body":"know, absolutely be very"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3046.3390000000004,"endTime":3048.7690000000002,"body":"unscientific, it's like, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3046.3390000000004,"endTime":3048.7690000000002,"body":"not that we didn't want to be"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3048.7690000000002,"endTime":3054.139,"body":"scientific. But we also wanted"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3048.7690000000002,"endTime":3054.139,"body":"to kind of like, speak in a less"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3055.069,"endTime":3060.349,"body":"dry tone, perhaps, and to be as"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3055.069,"endTime":3060.349,"body":"warm, engaging, reflexive, all"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3060.349,"endTime":3062.2090000000003,"body":"of the things that we've talked"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3060.349,"endTime":3062.2090000000003,"body":"about in relation to the book,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3062.2090000000003,"endTime":3065.4790000000003,"body":"but kind of turn that into"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3062.2090000000003,"endTime":3065.4790000000003,"body":"training. And as Laura says, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3065.4790000000003,"endTime":3068.9590000000003,"body":"know, both she and I have worked"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3065.4790000000003,"endTime":3068.9590000000003,"body":"together on trainings, before we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3068.9590000000003,"endTime":3071.6290000000004,"body":"started this, we did deliver"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3068.9590000000003,"endTime":3071.6290000000004,"body":"trainings together, we work"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3071.6290000000004,"endTime":3075.319,"body":"together, we just kind of vibe"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3071.6290000000004,"endTime":3075.319,"body":"with each other, and we like and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3075.319,"endTime":3078.409,"body":"spark off each other. And we've"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3075.319,"endTime":3078.409,"body":"got kind of good complementary"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3078.799,"endTime":3083.719,"body":"skills. And, yeah, as she said,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3078.799,"endTime":3083.719,"body":"we know we, we like the sound of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3083.719,"endTime":3086.569,"body":"our own voice a bit. And so the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3083.719,"endTime":3086.569,"body":"idea of doing some training"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3086.569,"endTime":3092.4190000000003,"body":"together kind of was was fun for"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3086.569,"endTime":3092.4190000000003,"body":"us. And we've, we've had a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3092.4190000000003,"endTime":3096.469,"body":"of fun over the last, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3092.4190000000003,"endTime":3096.469,"body":"must be 18 months now, building"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3096.799,"endTime":3097.789,"body":"a lot of content."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3097.789,"endTime":3102.0190000000002,"body":"Via Michael has been"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3097.789,"endTime":3102.0190000000002,"body":"traveling to Tel Aviv, there's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3102.0190000000002,"endTime":3106.819,"body":"been a lot of filming in my"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3102.0190000000002,"endTime":3106.819,"body":"living room. My husband has been"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3106.819,"endTime":3110.4190000000003,"body":"behind the scenes doing all the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3106.819,"endTime":3110.4190000000003,"body":"tech parts for it. And now we've"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3110.4190000000003,"endTime":3113.4190000000003,"body":"come to the point where we're"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3110.4190000000003,"endTime":3113.4190000000003,"body":"very, very proud to present a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3113.569,"endTime":3117.079,"body":"five hours comprehensive"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3113.569,"endTime":3117.079,"body":"training for clinicians and"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3117.079,"endTime":3120.679,"body":"clinicians who might say, You"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3117.079,"endTime":3120.679,"body":"know what, first of all, I might"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3120.679,"endTime":3122.7490000000003,"body":"know enough about gender, but"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3120.679,"endTime":3122.7490000000003,"body":"I've actually never been"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3122.7490000000003,"endTime":3125.9590000000003,"body":"thinking much about my own"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3122.7490000000003,"endTime":3125.9590000000003,"body":"gender identity, or this is the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3125.9590000000003,"endTime":3129.4390000000003,"body":"first trans client I have, or"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3125.9590000000003,"endTime":3129.4390000000003,"body":"actually, I don't have any trans"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3129.4390000000003,"endTime":3132.5890000000004,"body":"client, but I find this very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3129.4390000000003,"endTime":3132.5890000000004,"body":"fascinating. So for anyone who"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3132.5890000000004,"endTime":3136.099,"body":"would like to learn, and not"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3132.5890000000004,"endTime":3136.099,"body":"only hear us, but hear trans"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3136.099,"endTime":3138.9790000000003,"body":"people speak in themselves, but"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3136.099,"endTime":3138.9790000000003,"body":"what is like and what they"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3138.9790000000003,"endTime":3143.029,"body":"struggle, and what are the joys"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3138.9790000000003,"endTime":3143.029,"body":"as well, you know, then this is"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3143.029,"endTime":3146.119,"body":"the sort of training we feel"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3143.029,"endTime":3146.119,"body":"people should complete that we"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3146.119,"endTime":3148.159,"body":"wish we had when we started in"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3146.119,"endTime":3148.159,"body":"the field."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3148.3100000000004,"endTime":3150.4700000000003,"body":"That is really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3148.3100000000004,"endTime":3150.4700000000003,"body":"wonderful. I mean, I wish there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3150.4700000000003,"endTime":3153.3500000000004,"body":"was a needed, right, because it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3150.4700000000003,"endTime":3153.3500000000004,"body":"was integrated in everybody's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3153.3500000000004,"endTime":3157.79,"body":"training. But given that it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3153.3500000000004,"endTime":3157.79,"body":"not like we said, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3157.79,"endTime":3160.94,"body":"really wonderful to have that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3157.79,"endTime":3160.94,"body":"kind of platform. And he sounds"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3160.94,"endTime":3165.53,"body":"like very much, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3160.94,"endTime":3165.53,"body":"like in the book, it's not just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3166.67,"endTime":3169.6400000000003,"body":"folks talking from a clinical"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3166.67,"endTime":3169.6400000000003,"body":"perspective, but it's also those"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3169.6400000000003,"endTime":3173.3300000000004,"body":"lived experiences that I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3169.6400000000003,"endTime":3173.3300000000004,"body":"it can be, you know, so hard for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3173.3300000000004,"endTime":3177.1400000000003,"body":"folks to access, you know, often"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3173.3300000000004,"endTime":3177.1400000000003,"body":"say to supervisees or trainees"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3177.1400000000003,"endTime":3181.67,"body":"like read books, listen to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3177.1400000000003,"endTime":3181.67,"body":"podcasts, right? If you're in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3181.67,"endTime":3186.44,"body":"training and the pure, you want"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3181.67,"endTime":3186.44,"body":"to learn more about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3186.44,"endTime":3190.3100000000004,"body":"trans folks or non monogamous"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3186.44,"endTime":3190.3100000000004,"body":"folks, or, or queer folks, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3191.1200000000003,"endTime":3194.27,"body":"read the stories, listen to the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3191.1200000000003,"endTime":3194.27,"body":"stories, don't be your client,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3194.69,"endTime":3199.07,"body":"be the first person to hear"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3194.69,"endTime":3199.07,"body":"those stories that because, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3199.07,"endTime":3202.4300000000003,"body":"know, find that or avenues, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3199.07,"endTime":3202.4300000000003,"body":"I love that there is an avenue"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3202.46,"endTime":3206.0,"body":"that is more like, and here is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3202.46,"endTime":3206.0,"body":"something that merges kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3206.0,"endTime":3209.3300000000004,"body":"best scientific knowledge, like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3206.0,"endTime":3209.3300000000004,"body":"you said, Michael, with also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3209.3300000000004,"endTime":3212.6000000000004,"body":"lived experiences. Because yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3209.3300000000004,"endTime":3212.6000000000004,"body":"otherwise you can just read a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3212.6000000000004,"endTime":3218.36,"body":"paper in your pjs like. And I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3212.6000000000004,"endTime":3218.36,"body":"think there is something to be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3218.36,"endTime":3221.78,"body":"said for kind of hitting people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3218.36,"endTime":3221.78,"body":"with their more and more that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3221.8100000000004,"endTime":3225.1400000000003,"body":"like we're humans, right, we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3221.8100000000004,"endTime":3225.1400000000003,"body":"need to connect. Otherwise, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3225.1400000000003,"endTime":3228.02,"body":"kind of almost dehumanizing,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3225.1400000000003,"endTime":3228.02,"body":"learning about other people just"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3228.02,"endTime":3232.5800000000004,"body":"in numbers, right? You know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3228.02,"endTime":3232.5800000000004,"body":"people are 10 times more likely"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3232.5800000000004,"endTime":3237.4700000000003,"body":"to like, you know, engage, have"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3232.5800000000004,"endTime":3237.4700000000003,"body":"suicidal ideation. Okay, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3237.4700000000003,"endTime":3241.3700000000003,"body":"then you listen to a poem or"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3237.4700000000003,"endTime":3241.3700000000003,"body":"like somebody who shares living"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3241.3700000000003,"endTime":3243.8900000000003,"body":"with chronic suicidality. That's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3241.3700000000003,"endTime":3243.8900000000003,"body":"very different, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3245.4190000000003,"endTime":3248.8990000000003,"body":"And I think also how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3245.4190000000003,"endTime":3248.8990000000003,"body":"use statistics, you're, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3248.8990000000003,"endTime":3251.869,"body":"kind of stuck there, Alex just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3248.8990000000003,"endTime":3251.869,"body":"reminded me of a wonderful one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3251.869,"endTime":3255.739,"body":"that that Laura shared, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3251.869,"endTime":3255.739,"body":"about relating to D transition,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3255.739,"endTime":3259.159,"body":"that you're more likely to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3255.739,"endTime":3259.159,"body":"become pregnant while using"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3259.159,"endTime":3263.809,"body":"contraception than you are to D"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3259.159,"endTime":3263.809,"body":"transition. And all of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3263.809,"endTime":3267.409,"body":"kinds of, you know, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3263.809,"endTime":3267.409,"body":"using stats, but in a way that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3267.679,"endTime":3271.2490000000003,"body":"that kind of disrupts a bit or,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3267.679,"endTime":3271.2490000000003,"body":"but yeah, I mean, we want to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3271.2490000000003,"endTime":3271.909,"body":"storytellers."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3272.4790000000003,"endTime":3274.9990000000003,"body":"Yeah, I did. I sent you."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3272.4790000000003,"endTime":3274.9990000000003,"body":"I think I sent you the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3274.9990000000003,"endTime":3277.429,"body":"screenshot. Michael, there was"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3274.9990000000003,"endTime":3277.429,"body":"also like a recent article, I"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3277.429,"endTime":3281.4190000000003,"body":"think it was in the gay times,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3277.429,"endTime":3281.4190000000003,"body":"saying that more people regret"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3281.4190000000003,"endTime":3285.1090000000004,"body":"having children that that regret"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3281.4190000000003,"endTime":3285.1090000000004,"body":"the transition? Yes."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3285.1090000000004,"endTime":3287.809,"body":"I can, I can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3285.1090000000004,"endTime":3287.809,"body":"believe that, being parents is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3287.8390000000004,"endTime":3291.259,"body":"like really hard. You know, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3287.8390000000004,"endTime":3291.259,"body":"it's really interesting, also,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3292.5190000000002,"endTime":3295.069,"body":"best thing I've ever done and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3292.5190000000002,"endTime":3295.069,"body":"also hardest thing I've ever"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3295.069,"endTime":3298.4590000000003,"body":"done to parent children. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3295.069,"endTime":3298.4590000000003,"body":"that's one thing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3298.4590000000003,"endTime":3301.5190000000002,"body":"like, I've worked with clients"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3298.4590000000003,"endTime":3301.5190000000002,"body":"who are trying to decide if they"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3301.5190000000002,"endTime":3306.1090000000004,"body":"want children, that is a theory,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3301.5190000000002,"endTime":3306.1090000000004,"body":"actually, like almost more heart"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3306.1090000000004,"endTime":3309.289,"body":"wrenching process for me, than"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3306.1090000000004,"endTime":3309.289,"body":"people are exploring their"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3309.289,"endTime":3313.4590000000003,"body":"gender or sexuality because it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3309.289,"endTime":3313.4590000000003,"body":"like, you know, it just brings"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3313.4590000000003,"endTime":3316.5190000000002,"body":"up a lot. And again, there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3313.4590000000003,"endTime":3316.5190000000002,"body":"societal expectations as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3316.5190000000002,"endTime":3320.299,"body":"internalized expectation, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3316.5190000000002,"endTime":3320.299,"body":"there's a lot to but we don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3320.299,"endTime":3324.199,"body":"see that as like necessarily"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3320.299,"endTime":3324.199,"body":"like, this is very specialist"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3324.199,"endTime":3328.279,"body":"and satisfied, right. So it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3324.199,"endTime":3328.279,"body":"really interesting, who gets to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3328.309,"endTime":3332.389,"body":"be viewed as like a human and as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3328.309,"endTime":3332.389,"body":"therapists we should be able to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3332.389,"endTime":3335.2090000000003,"body":"deal with those tissues. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3332.389,"endTime":3335.2090000000003,"body":"you'll get to be viewed as like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3335.6290000000004,"endTime":3339.8590000000004,"body":"this is a special case that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3335.6290000000004,"endTime":3339.8590000000004,"body":"right needs to go over there. I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3339.8590000000004,"endTime":3342.049,"body":"feel like we could talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3339.8590000000004,"endTime":3342.049,"body":"all those things for a long"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3342.079,"endTime":3345.259,"body":"time. So you've got this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3342.079,"endTime":3345.259,"body":"wonderful online training"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3345.259,"endTime":3349.039,"body":"program, you've got the book,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3345.259,"endTime":3349.039,"body":"and you're also, you know, cis,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3349.489,"endTime":3353.2090000000003,"body":"folks who are very passionate"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3349.489,"endTime":3353.2090000000003,"body":"about this access to health"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3353.2090000000003,"endTime":3356.9590000000003,"body":"care. What's it like to do this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3353.2090000000003,"endTime":3356.9590000000003,"body":"work? Or what do you feel like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3356.9590000000003,"endTime":3360.889,"body":"it's your role as cisgender"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3356.9590000000003,"endTime":3360.889,"body":"therapists at the moment, with"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3360.889,"endTime":3365.449,"body":"the increasing level of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3360.889,"endTime":3365.449,"body":"backlash of like trans panic?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3365.449,"endTime":3370.219,"body":"transphobia? You know, I would"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3365.449,"endTime":3370.219,"body":"say, almost everywhere,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3370.6690000000003,"endTime":3374.9590000000003,"body":"definitely, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3370.6690000000003,"endTime":3374.9590000000003,"body":"nationally, here on Turtle"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3374.9590000000003,"endTime":3378.7090000000003,"body":"Island in the support us, I know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3374.9590000000003,"endTime":3378.7090000000003,"body":"that Australia has got its own"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3378.7090000000003,"endTime":3382.1890000000003,"body":"version, the UK has got its own"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3378.7090000000003,"endTime":3382.1890000000003,"body":"version. So yeah, how do you see"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3382.1890000000003,"endTime":3386.599,"body":"your role as this therapist,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3382.1890000000003,"endTime":3386.599,"body":"authors trainers in this moment,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3386.8390000000004,"endTime":3388.159,"body":"in this political moment?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3391.279,"endTime":3395.8990000000003,"body":"Michael. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3395.8990000000003,"endTime":3398.389,"body":"Just a light question."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3395.8990000000003,"endTime":3398.389,"body":"I mean, it's, it's a very, very"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3398.389,"endTime":3406.069,"body":"light question, I think for both"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3398.389,"endTime":3406.069,"body":"of us. You know, we, I think"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3406.069,"endTime":3408.5890000000004,"body":"from a from a val speak, first"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3406.069,"endTime":3408.5890000000004,"body":"of all, from a personal"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3408.5890000000004,"endTime":3415.759,"body":"perspective, I definitely am a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3408.5890000000004,"endTime":3415.759,"body":"kind of a voice within an"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3415.789,"endTime":3421.3390000000004,"body":"overwhelmingly, kind of cis het"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3415.789,"endTime":3421.3390000000004,"body":"group of friends say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3421.3390000000004,"endTime":3425.119,"body":"I'll go to a dinner party with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3421.3390000000004,"endTime":3425.119,"body":"people who feel perfectly"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3425.719,"endTime":3430.6690000000003,"body":"entitled, often, cis het white"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3425.719,"endTime":3430.6690000000003,"body":"men to have opinions about"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3430.699,"endTime":3433.849,"body":"things they know nothing about."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3430.699,"endTime":3433.849,"body":"And I will just say, Well, how"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3433.849,"endTime":3437.029,"body":"many trans people have you ever"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3433.849,"endTime":3437.029,"body":"met? Or how many books have you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3437.029,"endTime":3439.759,"body":"written on this subject? Or how"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3437.029,"endTime":3439.759,"body":"many papers have you read? Or"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3439.759,"endTime":3442.909,"body":"how many conferences have you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3439.759,"endTime":3442.909,"body":"been to about this? And yet, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3442.909,"endTime":3446.389,"body":"sit here with me at the dinner"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3442.909,"endTime":3446.389,"body":"party, telling me what what the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3446.389,"endTime":3450.7090000000003,"body":"answer is, it's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3446.389,"endTime":3450.7090000000003,"body":"sit down, and, and, and listen,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3450.799,"endTime":3455.119,"body":"you know, don't kind of so I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3450.799,"endTime":3455.119,"body":"feel kind of quite activist ish."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3455.1490000000003,"endTime":3459.949,"body":"And certainly I advocate for,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3455.1490000000003,"endTime":3459.949,"body":"for my clients and for the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3459.949,"endTime":3463.819,"body":"communities and so on. That"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3459.949,"endTime":3463.819,"body":"being said, it is a very"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3463.819,"endTime":3468.829,"body":"difficult space to stick your"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3463.819,"endTime":3468.829,"body":"head above the parapet and be an"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3468.829,"endTime":3473.569,"body":"affirmative practitioner in a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3468.829,"endTime":3473.569,"body":"political environment, certainly"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3473.569,"endTime":3478.039,"body":"in the UK, which is very"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3473.569,"endTime":3478.039,"body":"transphobic, I would say the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3478.039,"endTime":3480.7090000000003,"body":"government is transphobic. And"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3478.039,"endTime":3480.7090000000003,"body":"it is, you know, there's more"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3480.7090000000003,"endTime":3483.2290000000003,"body":"legislation, which is apparently"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3480.7090000000003,"endTime":3483.2290000000003,"body":"announced this week, where"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3483.2290000000003,"endTime":3488.4790000000003,"body":"they're like, going to make it a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3483.2290000000003,"endTime":3488.4790000000003,"body":"sort of a statutory requirement"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3488.4790000000003,"endTime":3492.199,"body":"for all new buildings to have"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3488.4790000000003,"endTime":3492.199,"body":"gender specific toilets, not"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3492.199,"endTime":3495.1090000000004,"body":"gender neutral toilets. And this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3492.199,"endTime":3495.1090000000004,"body":"whole kind of like, I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3495.1090000000004,"endTime":3499.279,"body":"bathroom panic thing is just"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3495.1090000000004,"endTime":3499.279,"body":"nuts. And of course, it's a way"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3499.279,"endTime":3502.789,"body":"of distracting in my view, from"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3499.279,"endTime":3502.789,"body":"the failure of the government to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3502.789,"endTime":3505.489,"body":"address all kinds of other"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3502.789,"endTime":3505.489,"body":"things and is part of obviously"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3505.489,"endTime":3512.329,"body":"the kind of a culture wars but"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3505.489,"endTime":3512.329,"body":"to to stand up for clients is"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3512.3590000000004,"endTime":3518.8390000000004,"body":"and and for you to use my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3512.3590000000004,"endTime":3518.8390000000004,"body":"privileges as a salesperson. I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3518.8390000000004,"endTime":3522.259,"body":"suppose I see that definitely as"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3518.8390000000004,"endTime":3522.259,"body":"as something that's part of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3522.259,"endTime":3526.759,"body":"being an ally. But it is also"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3522.259,"endTime":3526.759,"body":"difficult, for example, to do"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3526.759,"endTime":3529.969,"body":"that, really publicly, I've been"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3526.759,"endTime":3529.969,"body":"invited onto different news"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3529.969,"endTime":3532.699,"body":"shows and things like that often"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3529.969,"endTime":3532.699,"body":"very right wing news shows and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3532.699,"endTime":3536.449,"body":"I've refused to go because I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3532.699,"endTime":3536.449,"body":"just don't want to be kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3536.449,"endTime":3545.449,"body":"like red meat to a transphobic."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3536.449,"endTime":3545.449,"body":"News Anchor to kind of like stir"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3545.449,"endTime":3550.279,"body":"up things, and I suppose. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3545.449,"endTime":3550.279,"body":"it's hard. I don't know. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3550.279,"endTime":3553.279,"body":"not answering this as clearly"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3550.279,"endTime":3553.279,"body":"maybe yes, but I feel very"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3553.279,"endTime":3557.599,"body":"conflicted about it. I, I worry"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3553.279,"endTime":3557.599,"body":"about being attacked. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3557.599,"endTime":3561.9790000000003,"body":"not physically attacked at all."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3557.599,"endTime":3561.9790000000003,"body":"But we know that that within our"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3562.369,"endTime":3564.7690000000002,"body":"discipline. I mean, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3562.369,"endTime":3564.7690000000002,"body":"counseling psychologist Lauer's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3564.7690000000002,"endTime":3568.099,"body":"a clinical psychologist, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3564.7690000000002,"endTime":3568.099,"body":"know, tomato tomahto, but we're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3568.099,"endTime":3571.6690000000003,"body":"both within the British"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3568.099,"endTime":3571.6690000000003,"body":"Psychological Society, and that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3571.6690000000003,"endTime":3575.239,"body":"there are gender critical"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3571.6690000000003,"endTime":3575.239,"body":"practitioners and voices within"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3575.239,"endTime":3578.989,"body":"that. Sorry, Laura, let you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3575.239,"endTime":3578.989,"body":"speak a bit to this."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3580.28,"endTime":3583.9,"body":"Yeah, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3580.28,"endTime":3583.9,"body":"challenging. It's challenging to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3583.974,"endTime":3588.482,"body":"know what you want to do. You"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3583.974,"endTime":3588.482,"body":"know, whether, whether you want"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3588.556,"endTime":3592.7670000000003,"body":"to, you know, really fight,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3588.556,"endTime":3592.7670000000003,"body":"whether it is a fight that is"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3592.8410000000003,"endTime":3596.9060000000004,"body":"worth fighting, or whether"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3592.8410000000003,"endTime":3596.9060000000004,"body":"you're just fueling the fire"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3596.9790000000003,"endTime":3601.561,"body":"with your words, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3596.9790000000003,"endTime":3601.561,"body":"it's, it's really a matter of my"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3601.635,"endTime":3605.847,"body":"show, I think, for me, what's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3601.635,"endTime":3605.847,"body":"most difficult is having to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3605.9210000000003,"endTime":3610.4280000000003,"body":"bring the political reality into"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3605.9210000000003,"endTime":3610.4280000000003,"body":"my clinical work. And so for"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3610.5020000000004,"endTime":3614.6400000000003,"body":"example, as part of the"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3610.5020000000004,"endTime":3614.6400000000003,"body":"assessments that I do for people"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3614.7140000000004,"endTime":3619.295,"body":"who want to access hormones or"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3614.7140000000004,"endTime":3619.295,"body":"surgery, we ask about fertility"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3619.369,"endTime":3624.0240000000003,"body":"preservation, right. Would you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3619.369,"endTime":3624.0240000000003,"body":"like to have biological children"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3624.098,"endTime":3628.7540000000004,"body":"one day? Is this something you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3624.098,"endTime":3628.7540000000004,"body":"think and in most people because"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3628.827,"endTime":3633.335,"body":"there's so much looking forward"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3628.827,"endTime":3633.335,"body":"to starting hormones? They're"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3633.409,"endTime":3637.695,"body":"like, No, no, no, I'll adopt"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3633.409,"endTime":3637.695,"body":"adopt. And I have to say I'll"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3637.7690000000002,"endTime":3642.054,"body":"stop there. Do you think you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3637.7690000000002,"endTime":3642.054,"body":"might have the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3642.128,"endTime":3646.414,"body":"adopt in future? Or is this"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3642.128,"endTime":3646.414,"body":"right going to be revoked? You"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3646.4880000000003,"endTime":3650.183,"body":"know, we haven't I think"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3646.4880000000003,"endTime":3650.183,"body":"currently in I believe is"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3650.257,"endTime":3654.025,"body":"Hungary, there's been a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3650.257,"endTime":3654.025,"body":"regression of gay rights in"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3654.099,"endTime":3658.7540000000004,"body":"terms of marriage. You know, so"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3654.099,"endTime":3658.7540000000004,"body":"it can happen, and we're not in"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3658.828,"endTime":3663.4840000000004,"body":"the best trajectory in the UK."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3658.828,"endTime":3663.4840000000004,"body":"And so to think that you have to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3663.5570000000002,"endTime":3668.139,"body":"think ahead, because your rights"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3663.5570000000002,"endTime":3668.139,"body":"are going to be revoked. It's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3668.213,"endTime":3672.8680000000004,"body":"really, really sad. And it feels"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3668.213,"endTime":3672.8680000000004,"body":"paralyzing. And as someone who"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3672.942,"endTime":3677.375,"body":"like I said, Being cis het who"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3672.942,"endTime":3677.375,"body":"has the privilege and rage on"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3677.449,"endTime":3681.44,"body":"behalf of my clients, and on"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3677.449,"endTime":3681.44,"body":"behalf of the communities"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3681.514,"endTime":3685.799,"body":"because I cannot because it's"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3681.514,"endTime":3685.799,"body":"absurd, I simply absurd. But"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3685.873,"endTime":3690.233,"body":"it's, it's, it's challenging as"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3685.873,"endTime":3690.233,"body":"well, because of this whole"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3690.3070000000002,"endTime":3694.223,"body":"ideology that the gender"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3690.3070000000002,"endTime":3694.223,"body":"critical movement is a valid"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3694.297,"endTime":3697.992,"body":"one, when racism isn't"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3694.297,"endTime":3697.992,"body":"considered valid when other"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3698.0660000000003,"endTime":3701.982,"body":"forms of homophobia isn't"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3698.0660000000003,"endTime":3701.982,"body":"considered valid. Yet, when"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3702.056,"endTime":3706.4900000000002,"body":"we're talking about trans folk,"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":3702.056,"endTime":3706.4900000000002,"body":"it's kind of okay, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3707.78,"endTime":3711.38,"body":"It reminds me a bit of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3707.78,"endTime":3711.38,"body":"two things that occurred to me"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3711.44,"endTime":3716.8100000000004,"body":"what Laura saying is one is"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3711.44,"endTime":3716.8100000000004,"body":"absolutely say that solidarity"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3716.8100000000004,"endTime":3720.5,"body":"becomes more and more important."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3716.8100000000004,"endTime":3720.5,"body":"And Laura and I kind of have"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3720.5,"endTime":3725.1800000000003,"body":"worked with and connected with a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3720.5,"endTime":3725.1800000000003,"body":"bunch of organizations, we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3725.1800000000003,"endTime":3728.15,"body":"recently worked with Transgender"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3725.1800000000003,"endTime":3728.15,"body":"Europe to, to deliver some"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3728.15,"endTime":3731.8700000000003,"body":"training for mental health"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3728.15,"endTime":3731.8700000000003,"body":"people and psychiatrists,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3731.8700000000003,"endTime":3734.4500000000003,"body":"psychologists in Slovakia where"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3731.8700000000003,"endTime":3734.4500000000003,"body":"there are no gender services."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3734.4500000000003,"endTime":3738.05,"body":"And we know that conditions"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3734.4500000000003,"endTime":3738.05,"body":"there are being targeted by"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3738.3500000000004,"endTime":3741.59,"body":"individuals who say that their"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3738.3500000000004,"endTime":3741.59,"body":"work is sinful and wrong, and so"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3741.59,"endTime":3744.7400000000002,"body":"on, and how we can have"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3741.59,"endTime":3744.7400000000002,"body":"solidarity for and with one"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3744.7400000000002,"endTime":3747.23,"body":"another to sort of like so we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3744.7400000000002,"endTime":3747.23,"body":"don't feel like we're, we're on"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3747.23,"endTime":3754.61,"body":"our own. And I guess, I can't"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3747.23,"endTime":3754.61,"body":"remember what my second point"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3754.61,"endTime":3761.6600000000003,"body":"was, it was... I've kind of lost"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3754.61,"endTime":3761.6600000000003,"body":"my thread in that. In that kind"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3761.6600000000003,"endTime":3767.1800000000003,"body":"of question around around"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3761.6600000000003,"endTime":3767.1800000000003,"body":"solidarity, but also, yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3767.1800000000003,"endTime":3771.5,"body":"kind of recognition that rights"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3767.1800000000003,"endTime":3771.5,"body":"can what has been given come can"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3771.5,"endTime":3772.3100000000004,"body":"be taken away."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3772.2490000000003,"endTime":3775.6690000000003,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3772.2490000000003,"endTime":3775.6690000000003,"body":"And I love where you both said,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3775.6690000000003,"endTime":3779.779,"body":"and I know we're kind of coming"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3775.6690000000003,"endTime":3779.779,"body":"up to time, but I think it's so"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3779.779,"endTime":3783.889,"body":"important to an orphan it's like"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3779.779,"endTime":3783.889,"body":"yes to start maybe with trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3783.889,"endTime":3786.9790000000003,"body":"people but then it's like well,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3783.889,"endTime":3786.9790000000003,"body":"which queer people are"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3786.9790000000003,"endTime":3789.8590000000004,"body":"acceptable in the no queer"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3786.9790000000003,"endTime":3789.8590000000004,"body":"people are acceptable like and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3789.8590000000004,"endTime":3793.429,"body":"actually then we see that oh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3789.8590000000004,"endTime":3793.429,"body":"actually like this old this is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3793.429,"endTime":3796.279,"body":"racism even a thing you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3793.429,"endTime":3796.279,"body":"critical race theory that we're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3796.279,"endTime":3799.8790000000004,"body":"seeing on Turtle Island we know"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3796.279,"endTime":3799.8790000000004,"body":"that it's never just about one"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3799.8790000000004,"endTime":3803.719,"body":"group of people when we're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3799.8790000000004,"endTime":3803.719,"body":"trying to police folks right and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3803.719,"endTime":3808.159,"body":"so and it's tricky like you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3803.719,"endTime":3808.159,"body":"said, Michael, and Laura as"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3808.159,"endTime":3812.599,"body":"well. It's like how do you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3808.159,"endTime":3812.599,"body":"discern which sides to step up"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3813.0190000000002,"endTime":3817.6690000000003,"body":"about which fights to like you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3813.0190000000002,"endTime":3817.6690000000003,"body":"know, amplify which which fights"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3817.6690000000003,"endTime":3820.4590000000003,"body":"are just not even worth it"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3817.6690000000003,"endTime":3820.4590000000003,"body":"because it's just kind of fodder"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3820.489,"endTime":3824.719,"body":"for right wing media right and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3820.489,"endTime":3824.719,"body":"or conservative media. It's,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3824.7490000000003,"endTime":3829.6090000000004,"body":"it's, it's not easy to do the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3824.7490000000003,"endTime":3829.6090000000004,"body":"work you do in this current"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3829.6090000000004,"endTime":3831.079,"body":"political climate for sure."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3832.8500000000004,"endTime":3837.11,"body":"Struggle so far, you're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3832.8500000000004,"endTime":3837.11,"body":"just reminds me of the very kind"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3837.1400000000003,"endTime":3841.07,"body":"foreword that you wrote to our"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3837.1400000000003,"endTime":3841.07,"body":"book, which was written in the,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3841.4900000000002,"endTime":3843.8900000000003,"body":"in the aftermath of the Pulse"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3841.4900000000002,"endTime":3843.8900000000003,"body":"nightclub shooting in the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3843.8900000000003,"endTime":3850.19,"body":"States. But also, my own kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3843.8900000000003,"endTime":3850.19,"body":"experience of growing up as a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3850.19,"endTime":3854.54,"body":"gay man in what was then"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3850.19,"endTime":3854.54,"body":"Rhodesia, then Zimbabwe, the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3854.54,"endTime":3861.59,"body":"very kind of heteronormative"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3854.54,"endTime":3861.59,"body":"macho masculinity, where gay men"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3861.59,"endTime":3867.4100000000003,"body":"was seen as a threat to children"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3861.59,"endTime":3867.4100000000003,"body":"and that very much you you can't"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3867.4100000000003,"endTime":3871.4300000000003,"body":"have gay men being around kids,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3867.4100000000003,"endTime":3871.4300000000003,"body":"because they are ultimately"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3871.4300000000003,"endTime":3875.6000000000004,"body":"going to recruit them, or"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3871.4300000000003,"endTime":3875.6000000000004,"body":"sexually assault them and the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3875.6000000000004,"endTime":3879.4100000000003,"body":"same tropes are being rolled up"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3875.6000000000004,"endTime":3879.4100000000003,"body":"particularly for trans women."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3880.28,"endTime":3885.4100000000003,"body":"Trans masculinity is less"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3880.28,"endTime":3885.4100000000003,"body":"problematized. And we can have a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3885.4100000000003,"endTime":3888.92,"body":"whole thing around the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3885.4100000000003,"endTime":3888.92,"body":"patriarchy and masculinity and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3888.92,"endTime":3893.54,"body":"all those kinds of stuff. But"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3888.92,"endTime":3893.54,"body":"but, you know, it seems that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3894.4100000000003,"endTime":3897.11,"body":"trans women are being"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3894.4100000000003,"endTime":3897.11,"body":"particularly or trans femininity"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3897.11,"endTime":3900.4700000000003,"body":"has been particularly attacked"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3897.11,"endTime":3900.4700000000003,"body":"in the same way or similar ways"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3900.4700000000003,"endTime":3904.19,"body":"to, to the way that men have"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3900.4700000000003,"endTime":3904.19,"body":"been, maybe perhaps continue to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3904.19,"endTime":3909.8,"body":"be in different ways, attacked"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":3904.19,"endTime":3909.8,"body":"some kind of threat. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3909.0800000000004,"endTime":3911.951,"body":"It's all part of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3909.0800000000004,"endTime":3911.951,"body":"that biological determinism,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3912.0150000000003,"endTime":3915.972,"body":"right? If you have a penis in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3912.0150000000003,"endTime":3915.972,"body":"some way or ever had one, you're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3916.036,"endTime":3919.8650000000002,"body":"a threat. But oh, you have a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3916.036,"endTime":3919.8650000000002,"body":"vulva. You couldn't possibly be"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3919.929,"endTime":3923.375,"body":"afraid we'll just infantilize"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3919.929,"endTime":3923.375,"body":"you and just not pay any"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3923.4390000000003,"endTime":3926.885,"body":"attention to you basically,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3923.4390000000003,"endTime":3926.885,"body":"which because you couldn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3926.949,"endTime":3930.7780000000002,"body":"possibly be a frat right. It's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3926.949,"endTime":3930.7780000000002,"body":"just always goes back to that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3930.842,"endTime":3934.4790000000003,"body":"biological determinism, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3930.842,"endTime":3934.4790000000003,"body":"ultimately then invalidates"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3934.543,"endTime":3938.3720000000003,"body":"transcripts at that To the but"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3934.543,"endTime":3938.3720000000003,"body":"yeah, the the tactics are the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3938.436,"endTime":3942.01,"body":"same and most of us were old"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3938.436,"endTime":3942.01,"body":"enough were like, hang on a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3942.074,"endTime":3945.52,"body":"minute does we've seen this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3942.074,"endTime":3945.52,"body":"discourse around grooming,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3945.5840000000003,"endTime":3949.221,"body":"right? This is not our first"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3945.5840000000003,"endTime":3949.221,"body":"kind of rodeo. And it's yes,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3949.2850000000003,"endTime":3952.9230000000002,"body":"absolutely. You know, and as a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3949.2850000000003,"endTime":3952.9230000000002,"body":"parent, you know, I've had"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3952.987,"endTime":3956.6240000000003,"body":"people, when my oldest was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3952.987,"endTime":3956.6240000000003,"body":"little like, trying to stop me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3956.688,"endTime":3960.581,"body":"from going into the bathroom"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3956.688,"endTime":3960.581,"body":"with her, even though she wanted"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3960.645,"endTime":3964.155,"body":"me to go to support as a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3960.645,"endTime":3964.155,"body":"neurodivergent. Kid, and like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3964.219,"endTime":3967.473,"body":"you know, depending, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3964.219,"endTime":3967.473,"body":"if my gender is read"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3967.5370000000003,"endTime":3971.494,"body":"ambiguously, like, right, what's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3967.5370000000003,"endTime":3971.494,"body":"happening? Is that your child"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3971.558,"endTime":3975.6420000000003,"body":"what's going on? Right? So it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3971.558,"endTime":3975.6420000000003,"body":"also it's like, yes, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3975.706,"endTime":3979.599,"body":"trans man who passes you might"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3975.706,"endTime":3979.599,"body":"be if you're like, a gay trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3979.663,"endTime":3983.619,"body":"man, who's a parent, then it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3979.663,"endTime":3983.619,"body":"all different ballgame. Because"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3983.683,"endTime":3987.3210000000004,"body":"then you're falling more into"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3983.683,"endTime":3987.3210000000004,"body":"that, like, what happens to"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3987.385,"endTime":3991.405,"body":"queer masculinity around kids?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3987.385,"endTime":3991.405,"body":"Right? I remember when she was a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3991.469,"endTime":3995.2980000000002,"body":"young teen, like, please don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3991.469,"endTime":3995.2980000000002,"body":"look like if you connect you."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3995.362,"endTime":3998.808,"body":"This is why, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3995.362,"endTime":3998.808,"body":"conversations and queer parents"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3998.8720000000003,"endTime":4002.7650000000003,"body":"have to have with their kids"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":3998.8720000000003,"endTime":4002.7650000000003,"body":"know, queer parents. Right? This"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4002.829,"endTime":4006.849,"body":"is complicated enough with all"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4002.829,"endTime":4006.849,"body":"of us have different last names."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4006.913,"endTime":4010.6780000000003,"body":"And we looking like this was"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4006.913,"endTime":4010.6780000000003,"body":"like, let's not make it harder"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4010.742,"endTime":4014.827,"body":"and talk to some social workers."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4010.742,"endTime":4014.827,"body":"You know, like trafficking you,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4014.8900000000003,"endTime":4018.592,"body":"um, your parents with a very"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4014.8900000000003,"endTime":4018.592,"body":"cantankerous teenager at the,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4018.6560000000004,"endTime":4022.612,"body":"you know, of course, we gotta"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4018.6560000000004,"endTime":4022.612,"body":"love but it's like, it's like, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4022.6760000000004,"endTime":4026.569,"body":"shouldn't have had to have this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4022.6760000000004,"endTime":4026.569,"body":"conversation with my kid. But"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4026.6330000000003,"endTime":4030.3340000000003,"body":"it's all it's all the same"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4026.6330000000003,"endTime":4030.3340000000003,"body":"route. Right? Who's the danger?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4030.398,"endTime":4034.291,"body":"and who's not? And how do we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4030.398,"endTime":4034.291,"body":"maintain this like, colonial cis"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4034.355,"endTime":4038.184,"body":"heteronormative state of we"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4034.355,"endTime":4038.184,"body":"could go on. So we'll have to do"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4038.248,"endTime":4042.0130000000004,"body":"another episode to talk about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4038.248,"endTime":4042.0130000000004,"body":"all the things because I also"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4042.077,"endTime":4045.6510000000003,"body":"know it's like afternoon for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4042.077,"endTime":4045.6510000000003,"body":"you. And we're going over a"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4045.715,"endTime":4049.8630000000003,"body":"little bit. I'm located time. So"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4045.715,"endTime":4049.8630000000003,"body":"the question I always ask at the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4049.927,"endTime":4053.8830000000003,"body":"end of interviews is, is there"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4049.927,"endTime":4053.8830000000003,"body":"anything that we haven't talked"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4053.947,"endTime":4057.713,"body":"about that you were really"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4053.947,"endTime":4057.713,"body":"hoping that we would talk about?"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4057.7760000000003,"endTime":4061.797,"body":"And if there isn't, that's okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4057.7760000000003,"endTime":4061.797,"body":"But I always ask that question"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4061.8610000000003,"endTime":4063.01,"body":"just to make sure."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4063.03,"endTime":4069.78,"body":"Psychotherapeutic"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4063.03,"endTime":4069.78,"body":"approach to this (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4069.78,"endTime":4072.57,"body":"nothing else from my end. Thank"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4069.78,"endTime":4072.57,"body":"you for the question."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4074.55,"endTime":4076.98,"body":"No, absolutely. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4074.55,"endTime":4076.98,"body":"there's so many things as you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4076.98,"endTime":4080.07,"body":"say that then tangents and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4076.98,"endTime":4080.07,"body":"different places we could go"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4080.1000000000004,"endTime":4084.84,"body":"your your sharing of your story"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4080.1000000000004,"endTime":4084.84,"body":"about parenting reminds me of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4084.84,"endTime":4089.3700000000003,"body":"that. I think it's a YouTube"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4084.84,"endTime":4089.3700000000003,"body":"channel or certainly a meme, but"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4089.3700000000003,"endTime":4094.11,"body":"like driving while black. I sort"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4089.3700000000003,"endTime":4094.11,"body":"of think parenting wild queer is"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4094.11,"endTime":4097.53,"body":"a whole other. You know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4094.11,"endTime":4097.53,"body":"whole kind of other thing. But"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4097.62,"endTime":4101.67,"body":"yeah, I mean, nothing, nothing."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4097.62,"endTime":4101.67,"body":"Nothing big has been has been"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4101.67,"endTime":4105.3,"body":"left out from my side. But I've"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4101.67,"endTime":4105.3,"body":"had an absolute blast. I've"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4105.3,"endTime":4107.5199999999995,"body":"really enjoyed the conversation."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4108.0,"endTime":4110.49,"body":"Yeah, likewise,"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4108.0,"endTime":4110.49,"body":"I'm like, Yeah, I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4110.49,"endTime":4114.69,"body":"forward to that Catholicism and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4110.49,"endTime":4114.69,"body":"gender episode that maybe we'll"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4114.69,"endTime":4117.9,"body":"do at some point. And if people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4114.69,"endTime":4117.9,"body":"I mean, all of those links will"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4117.9,"endTime":4121.08,"body":"also be in the episode"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4117.9,"endTime":4121.08,"body":"description. But if people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4121.08,"endTime":4123.66,"body":"wanted to get ahold of your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4121.08,"endTime":4123.66,"body":"lovely book, which if you're"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4123.96,"endTime":4127.71,"body":"watching us on YouTube, you can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4123.96,"endTime":4127.71,"body":"see what the pretty cover is"},{"speaker":"Gender Affirming Therapy","startTime":4127.74,"endTime":4131.43,"body":"A"},{"speaker":"Gender Affirming Therapy","startTime":4127.74,"endTime":4131.43,"body":"Guide to what Trans Gender and"},{"speaker":"Gender Affirming Therapy","startTime":4131.43,"endTime":4135.96,"body":"Non Binary Clients Can Teach Us."},{"speaker":"Gender Affirming Therapy","startTime":4131.43,"endTime":4135.96,"body":"Where can they find your book"},{"speaker":"Gender Affirming Therapy","startTime":4135.96,"endTime":4141.27,"body":"where they can find you and your"},{"speaker":"Gender Affirming Therapy","startTime":4135.96,"endTime":4141.27,"body":"learning platform? All the links"},{"speaker":"Gender Affirming Therapy","startTime":4141.27,"endTime":4142.08,"body":"share them away?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4143.58,"endTime":4146.52,"body":"The only other thing as"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4143.58,"endTime":4146.52,"body":"well is that it is a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4146.52,"endTime":4152.22,"body":"cover because Fox Fisher draw"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4146.52,"endTime":4152.22,"body":"the cover. Yeah, so we're very"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4152.22,"endTime":4154.68,"body":"very happy that collaborated."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4155.22,"endTime":4165.66,"body":"Oh, I love it I"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4155.22,"endTime":4165.66,"body":"love beautiful Yeah, so you can"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4165.66,"endTime":4169.110000000001,"body":"find the book I think wherever"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4165.66,"endTime":4169.110000000001,"body":"you get books, so ordinary asked"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4169.110000000001,"endTime":4174.4800000000005,"body":"your library to carry it. And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4169.110000000001,"endTime":4174.4800000000005,"body":"then the platform is affirm.lgbt"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4174.51,"endTime":4177.93,"body":"right? And is there anywhere"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4174.51,"endTime":4177.93,"body":"else that people should follow"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4177.93,"endTime":4181.38,"body":"you any social media that people"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4177.93,"endTime":4181.38,"body":"should follow or anything else"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4181.38,"endTime":4182.34,"body":"that you want to share?"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4182.88,"endTime":4188.64,"body":"So I'm the Social Media"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4182.88,"endTime":4188.64,"body":"Manager here we have a we have a"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4188.67,"endTime":4193.8,"body":"LinkedIn account to the name of"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4188.67,"endTime":4193.8,"body":"a firm dot LGBT, but also I have"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4193.8,"endTime":4199.05,"body":"my own profile so you can follow"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4193.8,"endTime":4199.05,"body":"me at laurascarrone.com if you"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4199.05,"endTime":4199.92,"body":"can spell that"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4202.09,"endTime":4208.75,"body":"it will be in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4202.09,"endTime":4208.75,"body":"that. Okay. You any additional"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4208.96,"endTime":4210.22,"body":"social media platforms?"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4211.39,"endTime":4215.02,"body":"I'm a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4211.39,"endTime":4215.02,"body":"kind of social media phobe? I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4215.02,"endTime":4218.68,"body":"know that we shouldn't be and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4215.02,"endTime":4218.68,"body":"that we should be more more"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4218.68,"endTime":4221.62,"body":"present. But when I spoke"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4218.68,"endTime":4221.62,"body":"earlier about complementary"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4221.62,"endTime":4225.85,"body":"skills, this is one of them"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4221.62,"endTime":4225.85,"body":"where Laura, Laura is able to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4225.88,"endTime":4230.77,"body":"kind of hold that it's an area"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4225.88,"endTime":4230.77,"body":"and a thing that I feel quite"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4230.77,"endTime":4237.9400000000005,"body":"anxious about, perhaps betraying"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4230.77,"endTime":4237.9400000000005,"body":"my age, but yes, Laura's. Laura"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4237.9400000000005,"endTime":4239.83,"body":"kind of holds that for both of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":4237.9400000000005,"endTime":4239.83,"body":"us."},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4240.22,"endTime":4242.2300000000005,"body":"(laughs) If you want to"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4240.22,"endTime":4242.2300000000005,"body":"send messages for Michael I can"},{"speaker":"Laura","startTime":4242.2300000000005,"endTime":4242.92,"body":"pass them on."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4250.99,"endTime":4253.33,"body":"I feel your"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4250.99,"endTime":4253.33,"body":"social media, is getting"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4253.33,"endTime":4256.75,"body":"intense. I'm in my 50s. And even"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4253.33,"endTime":4256.75,"body":"as a early adopter of"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4256.75,"endTime":4260.74,"body":"technology, and as a social"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4256.75,"endTime":4260.74,"body":"media enthusiast, that's a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4260.74,"endTime":4264.31,"body":"to keep up with. Don't ask me"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4260.74,"endTime":4264.31,"body":"about TikTok. I'm like, I kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4264.31,"endTime":4267.31,"body":"of get it but you know, in"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4264.31,"endTime":4267.31,"body":"Tumblr just passed me by you"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4267.31,"endTime":4272.9800000000005,"body":"know, I'm still on Live Journal."},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4267.31,"endTime":4272.9800000000005,"body":"So it's Well, this has been an"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4272.9800000000005,"endTime":4277.66,"body":"absolute delight. Thank you both"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4272.9800000000005,"endTime":4277.66,"body":"so much for making time for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4277.66,"endTime":4281.4400000000005,"body":"this. And thank you for creating"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4277.66,"endTime":4281.4400000000005,"body":"this beautiful book and the"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4281.4400000000005,"endTime":4284.59,"body":"training platform really looking"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4281.4400000000005,"endTime":4284.59,"body":"forward to checking it out and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4284.59,"endTime":4287.71,"body":"recommending it to folks and"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4284.59,"endTime":4287.71,"body":"wonderful gender stories"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4287.71,"endTime":4291.91,"body":"listeners. Thank you as ever for"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4287.71,"endTime":4291.91,"body":"listening. I hope that this"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4291.91,"endTime":4295.81,"body":"episode kind of give you some"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4291.91,"endTime":4295.81,"body":"inspiration to explore. What is"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4295.81,"endTime":4299.77,"body":"it that I need to unlearn about"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4295.81,"endTime":4299.77,"body":"gender to make my life and maybe"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4299.77,"endTime":4303.67,"body":"my loved ones life more"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4299.77,"endTime":4303.67,"body":"expansive, and more easeful? And"},{"speaker":"Alex Iantaffi","startTime":4303.67,"endTime":4305.38,"body":"until next time, take care."}]}