WEBVTT 00:00:34.953 --> 00:00:37.914 Hello and welcome to another episode of Gender Stories. 00:00:37.914 --> 00:00:58.683 As always, I am delighted and excited and thrilled really because Eun Bee Yes is not only the founder, show producer and director of um Transcendence Cabaret, which I will tell you all about it in a moment, but he's also wonderful colleague and friend. 00:00:58.683 --> 00:01:02.345 And so I feel so privileged to get to talk to him today. 00:01:02.345 --> 00:01:06.246 First of all, let me tell you about Transcendence Cabaret. 00:01:06.246 --> 00:01:12.890 Transcendence Cabaret is an amazing troupe with some of the best well-known and up-and-coming artists in the Twin Cities. 00:01:12.890 --> 00:01:20.953 They are transgender, genderqueer, gendernonconforming, Two-Spirit, and they're really all along the spectrum of gender and sexuality. 00:01:20.953 --> 00:01:32.777 The artists from Transgender Cabaret are primarily Black, Indigenous, and People of Color, and they're one of a handful of transgender troupes on Turtle Island, aka the so-called United States. 00:01:32.777 --> 00:01:34.819 who centers artists of color. 00:01:34.819 --> 00:01:44.908 Transcendence Cabaret offers an up-and-close personal experience and a spotlight on often overlooked talent within the unique drag music and art communities. 00:01:44.908 --> 00:01:58.747 Their aim is not only to entertain their audiences, but to push themselves as artists in a rare opportunity to challenge the perceptions of their communities and to make art from the heart and soul. 00:01:58.747 --> 00:02:08.131 And I can assure you, having seen some of their shows that you truly haven't seen anything yet until you spent an evening with Transcendence Cabaret. 00:02:08.131 --> 00:02:12.002 And they invite you to join them each month in a constantly evolving show. 00:02:12.002 --> 00:02:19.676 And if you don't live in the Twin Cities, don't worry, because I believe that their shows are also still being live streamed. 00:02:19.676 --> 00:02:25.189 And so you can join from really anywhere as long as you can be up at that time. 00:02:25.189 --> 00:02:26.500 So anywhere on the globe. 00:02:26.500 --> 00:02:28.062 So if you're ready to go. 00:02:28.062 --> 00:02:35.968 Above and Beyond the Binary, I really encourage you to watch one of their shows and let Transcendence Cabret be your guide. 00:02:35.968 --> 00:02:47.177 So welcome, Eun Bee Yes You are the founder, show director, producer for Transcendence Cabaret, and I'm so, grateful that I got to talk with you today. 00:02:47.177 --> 00:02:48.168 Welcome. 00:02:48.562 --> 00:02:49.923 Oh, thank you, Alex. 00:02:49.923 --> 00:02:51.142 It's so good to see you. 00:02:51.142 --> 00:02:52.163 Oh my gosh. 00:02:52.163 --> 00:02:56.822 Colleague and friend and chosen family and all that. 00:02:56.822 --> 00:03:02.582 And yeah, when you when I got the invite, I was like, oh, no way, because your Gender Stories are amazing. 00:03:02.582 --> 00:03:12.802 And I know a lot of people love it is like it really is an honor and a distinction to be included in this season's stories. 00:03:12.802 --> 00:03:16.163 You know, know you'll probably have a whole lineup of fantastic. 00:03:16.163 --> 00:03:24.964 ah interviewees, so for us to be part of the season's stories really means a lot on a personal professional level. 00:03:24.964 --> 00:03:26.889 So yeah, thank you. 00:03:26.889 --> 00:03:28.230 Thank you so much. 00:03:28.230 --> 00:03:31.047 I feel much the same about you making time for this. 00:03:31.047 --> 00:03:39.132 I know you're like really busy, you know, not just with Transcendence Cabaret, but with your, you know, your day job, your community organizing. 00:03:39.132 --> 00:03:42.574 And I feel like my invite was much overdue. 00:03:42.574 --> 00:03:52.389 And so I'm excited to talk to you about your troupe And so my first question is really like what moved you to like create Transcendence Cabaret, right? 00:03:52.389 --> 00:04:02.860 Like there are many, many different troupes out there that do drag and the Twin Cities as if Fair number, I would say, of the houses and like a large drag community. 00:04:02.860 --> 00:04:04.612 So why Transcendence Cabaret? 00:04:04.612 --> 00:04:07.706 What kind of inspired you to create your troupes? 00:04:08.690 --> 00:04:16.170 Right, well, back in 2016, 2017, I did a fundraiser. 00:04:16.170 --> 00:04:27.651 So I, at the time, am now part of the Imperial Court of Minnesota, which is a nonprofit organization, part of the Imperial Court system, an international system nonprofit. 00:04:27.651 --> 00:04:34.050 And we do fundraising for the community and for nonprofits in the community. 00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:39.639 And prior to that, there really hadn't been a two things. 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:54.502 One, uh show for specifically trans, non-binary, Two-Spirit organizations, nonprofit organizations to raise money for them through the Imperial Court, at least in Minnesota. 00:04:54.502 --> 00:04:59.285 And two, that featured all trans artists. 00:04:59.285 --> 00:05:01.465 And that's the key, right? 00:05:01.465 --> 00:05:08.209 So we had this fundraiser, first of its kind really, in the Imperial Court here in Minnesota. 00:05:08.209 --> 00:05:14.744 raised a lot of money, and it was all trans artists, not one cisgender, drag, or burlesque artist. 00:05:14.744 --> 00:05:23.670 And one of the things that we often say, and this is of course I think as it should be a holdover from, let's see. 00:05:23.670 --> 00:05:29.747 civil uprisings and community activism work. 00:05:29.747 --> 00:05:36.639 And from the 80s and the 90s, the days of the AIDS crisis when it's, give us our bread and roses now. 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:39.011 You know, that's an old, old quote. 00:05:39.011 --> 00:05:47.052 But give us now, don't wait till we're dead and say, accolades, you know, we don't, that's not helpful. 00:05:47.052 --> 00:05:49.394 And I got to thinking about all of that. 00:05:49.394 --> 00:05:54.735 And as always, you you stand on the shoulders of the giants before you. 00:05:54.735 --> 00:06:00.749 So I stand on the shoulders of my trancestors, as we coined that, right? 00:06:00.749 --> 00:06:02.429 um Marsha P. 00:06:02.429 --> 00:06:29.131 Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, the people who in Stonewall and Compton cafeteria, know, the uprisings then of our trans brothers and sisters and siblings and primarily People of Color, especially Black and brown, who led the whole, you know, um fight against homophobia, transphobia, and all of that, and brought about pride. 00:06:29.131 --> 00:06:34.971 So to stand on those shoulders is humbling, and to carry on that work is important. 00:06:34.971 --> 00:06:39.331 So after that fundraiser, I was like, oh my God, this is amazing, we should have more of this. 00:06:39.331 --> 00:06:41.790 I'm like, well, why don't we have more of this? 00:06:41.790 --> 00:07:12.103 So in 2017, I approached the then managers of Lush and said, hey, Would you be interested in us having a monthly show featuring all trans artists and primarily Black Indigenous People of Color artists, primarily, and then of course some white artists as well, but all trans. 00:07:12.103 --> 00:07:13.624 It's an all trans period. 00:07:13.624 --> 00:07:26.208 I'm not interested in centering cisgender at all because dominant society always centers cisgender and Here in Minneapolis, St. 00:07:26.208 --> 00:07:37.610 Paul and the surrounding communities, we still have, it's mostly cisgender, troupes, drag shows and whatnot, burlesque shows. 00:07:37.610 --> 00:07:45.453 It's gotten better, to be fair, since then, you know, it's gotten a lot more eclectic and a lot more better. 00:07:45.453 --> 00:07:51.875 And so 2018, we had our very first show there at Lush. 00:07:51.875 --> 00:07:53.956 And this is like our eighth year, right? 00:07:53.956 --> 00:08:03.579 Eight consecutive year and 2020, epidemic, that epidemic, COVID epidemic, I should say, started and everything shut down. 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:05.701 And you you mentioned the hybrid. 00:08:05.701 --> 00:08:13.665 are now the only monthly show that has a option. 00:08:13.665 --> 00:08:18.907 We are at the Phoenix Theater and we moved from Lush to the Phoenix. 00:08:18.907 --> 00:08:33.126 And well, first we moved to online only that first you saw that that March show was interesting on zoom because we didn't know what we're doing and things about and then we got lots better. 00:08:33.126 --> 00:08:36.117 And then we moved to Phoenix eventually. 00:08:36.117 --> 00:08:42.308 We were at this small, very intimate little place called the Midnight Theater, which is really amazing. 00:08:42.308 --> 00:08:48.006 And my friend ran that and then they could no longer be there. 00:08:48.006 --> 00:08:49.311 It's like now what? 00:08:49.311 --> 00:08:55.514 And I chose Phoenix because it had built in streaming capabilities. 00:08:55.514 --> 00:09:02.778 So now among these shows that Phoenix are streaming and it's still mandatory masking. 00:09:02.778 --> 00:09:06.699 So in-person mandatory masking, no exceptions. 00:09:06.699 --> 00:09:14.193 And then we have the streaming on our YouTube channel where like you said, anywhere in the world, people can just subscribe. 00:09:14.193 --> 00:09:19.160 You know, they get a ticket, they get an automatic link and they can come in person. 00:09:19.160 --> 00:09:23.875 with a masc or they can go online and it can stream. 00:09:23.875 --> 00:09:33.022 to answer, go back to your original question as we started, because representation is important, because BIPOC representation is important. 00:09:33.022 --> 00:09:48.519 When you have the intersectionality of BIPOC, trans, non-binary, and especially Two-Spirit, a representation within the artistic community back in 2017, 2018. 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:50.719 that was scarce on the ground. 00:09:50.719 --> 00:10:05.185 And so I really wanted to center our communities that way and start a troupe that was really um revolutionary in the cities at that time. 00:10:05.185 --> 00:10:07.786 And now it might be like, this is old hat. 00:10:07.786 --> 00:10:15.209 And again, people standing in our show to say, know, transcendentists, they will then we also, and it's like, absolutely. 00:10:15.209 --> 00:10:18.052 Let's expand beyond. 00:10:18.052 --> 00:10:19.423 So it's more common, right? 00:10:19.423 --> 00:10:20.824 Now it seems more common. 00:10:20.824 --> 00:10:24.986 you know, we have troupes, people who are within the trans community. 00:10:24.986 --> 00:10:25.897 No one blinks an eye. 00:10:25.897 --> 00:10:39.795 And I'd like to hope that when we started in 2018, our, my goal was to make that less of a singular thing and more of a common occurrence. 00:10:39.795 --> 00:10:44.899 And if it's more common occurrence now, then we did our job. 00:10:44.899 --> 00:10:46.269 Absolutely. 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:48.729 You know, when you were saying like, it is more common now. 00:10:48.729 --> 00:10:51.309 And I was like, and you were part of that change. 00:10:51.309 --> 00:11:06.289 Like you, I really believe that at least in the Twin Cities, Transcendence was very much part of that change of that shift towards, you know, giving opportunities as well, because it's not just about the representation, it's also the opportunities for growth, right? 00:11:06.289 --> 00:11:12.549 I love what it says in the bio for Transcendence Cabaret, that it's also about pushing kind of artistic expression, right? 00:11:12.549 --> 00:11:13.428 And I... 00:11:13.428 --> 00:11:29.128 I would assume that for a lot of Black, Indigenous, know, Folks of Color who wanted to enter the drag scene, and then on top of that trans, you know, the Two-Spirit, gender, expansive, non-binary, there would have been multiple barriers to access traditional drag scene. 00:11:29.128 --> 00:11:39.348 And so I'm also curious about, you know, having a space like Transcendence is also a place for mentorship and like an entry point for artists, right? 00:11:39.348 --> 00:11:41.288 Or at least I'm assuming so. 00:11:41.288 --> 00:11:57.714 Yeah, because I had original troupe and then as people would be guest artists on our shows, I like to think I have an eye for it, of really great talent, and I'd ask them to join, especially BIPOC. 00:11:57.714 --> 00:12:07.855 And then after a while, these people would catch the eye of other show directors and other house leaders, parents, and join houses and then... 00:12:07.855 --> 00:12:12.127 They'd be like, you know, I love my time with Transcendence and I'm not too time to move on. 00:12:12.127 --> 00:12:13.668 It's like, you know, yeah. 00:12:13.668 --> 00:12:16.907 I mean, I'm sad to see them go because it's bad. 00:12:16.907 --> 00:12:26.048 But, you know, as parents and you and I also parents, I think one of the big goals we want is our kids to go beyond us. 00:12:26.048 --> 00:12:31.887 So even though this wasn't like a house traditional, but maybe it kind of is right. 00:12:31.887 --> 00:12:35.371 Because when you think of like the ballroom scene. 00:12:35.371 --> 00:12:37.313 and the houses and the competitions. 00:12:37.313 --> 00:12:44.870 was people bound together by chosen family and talent and their houses and competing. 00:12:44.870 --> 00:12:51.668 And though we don't compete per se, it is, I tried to do two things. 00:12:51.668 --> 00:12:55.748 One, the mentorship and the safety to do your art. 00:12:55.748 --> 00:13:00.512 So our shows are not necessarily mainstream drag and there's nothing wrong with mainstream drag. 00:13:00.512 --> 00:13:05.001 if you go back, like you mentioned the history of drag, drag was subversive. 00:13:05.001 --> 00:13:08.634 You weren't supposed to do drag you know? 00:13:08.634 --> 00:13:17.111 And I think also, I also understand flip side, where some trans people, especially trans women, be like, well, drag is mocking us as women. 00:13:17.111 --> 00:13:20.584 It's like, my God, wasn't supposed to be like that at all. 00:13:20.584 --> 00:13:32.949 And for those drag artists to do that, you need to correct yourself because drag really was, how dare you tell me that I can't get into fem, fem. 00:13:32.949 --> 00:13:37.021 or female or femme presenting and do art. 00:13:37.021 --> 00:13:41.741 Or later on, oh masc masc presenting and do art. 00:13:41.741 --> 00:13:43.001 And that's still an issue, right? 00:13:43.001 --> 00:13:54.450 Because drag King's masculine-centered art has seen us less than, which absolutely burns my biscuits, as our grandmas used to say, because you don't gatekeep. 00:13:54.450 --> 00:13:57.732 Gatekeeping does not belong in a community. 00:13:57.732 --> 00:14:03.075 So to go back to the origins of drag, it's a... 00:14:03.075 --> 00:14:07.250 you get to interpret drag how you want to interpret drag. 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:15.072 And if you want to do mainstream pop stuff by all means, but for elevated, however you want to elevate that. 00:14:15.072 --> 00:14:17.851 But I encourage the subversiveness. 00:14:17.851 --> 00:14:24.511 Like if you want to do that cool, weird, funky art, if you want to do, I call it activist drag. 00:14:24.511 --> 00:14:32.192 And maybe I coined that where you like take an issue and you do a number around it and you just expand that whether it's around. 00:14:32.192 --> 00:14:44.628 you know, AIDS, HIV, whether it's around safe sex, whether it's around consent, whether it's around kink, polyamory, whether it's around Gothic stuff, know, alternative drag and all this is like big now. 00:14:44.628 --> 00:14:49.721 But again, that stayed in the shadows for so long because that wasn't drag. 00:14:49.721 --> 00:14:53.562 And I'm going to say, no, that's not, that's not true. 00:14:53.562 --> 00:14:56.464 There's, drag is so big. 00:14:56.464 --> 00:15:02.632 There's so many things that can do with, with drag that There should not be any gatekeeping. 00:15:02.632 --> 00:15:05.331 What I want is good. 00:15:05.331 --> 00:15:07.035 I want you to do the best. 00:15:07.035 --> 00:15:10.828 I don't want you to come and just like sleepwalk. 00:15:10.828 --> 00:15:14.480 Then this true person for you and our shows aren't for you. 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:18.443 You're not going to see that in our shows. 00:15:18.443 --> 00:15:21.786 Those aren't the artists I want in my troupe. 00:15:21.786 --> 00:15:29.538 I want people who want to perform and have this voice and heart and spirit. 00:15:29.538 --> 00:15:33.940 that says when I'm on stage, I'm doing this thing. 00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:39.375 And when I'm doing this thing, it's because I had an idea or I had my muse or whatever. 00:15:39.375 --> 00:15:45.137 And I just crafted everything from the ground, from the ground up. 00:15:45.137 --> 00:15:47.529 And so that's the mentorship that I wanna bring. 00:15:47.529 --> 00:15:49.761 I wanna bring that safe space. 00:15:49.761 --> 00:15:55.565 And then beyond that, I want people to go above and beyond and go out. 00:15:55.565 --> 00:15:58.775 And maybe they're no longer with us, but then I see them. 00:15:58.775 --> 00:16:08.075 getting bookings and doing other shows and being in their houses and just doing amazing things in the drag community. 00:16:08.075 --> 00:16:10.575 And I think that's amazing. 00:16:10.575 --> 00:16:12.555 It's like, wow, aren't we lucky? 00:16:12.555 --> 00:16:18.812 So about a year so ago, one of my artists, Moe Russell, Honor Yes. 00:16:18.812 --> 00:16:22.173 You you gotta remember all the names here. 00:16:22.173 --> 00:16:25.164 Approached me and said, I got an idea. 00:16:25.164 --> 00:16:26.834 And I said, okay. 00:16:26.834 --> 00:16:32.266 And what their idea was was to create an open stage show. 00:16:32.266 --> 00:16:34.538 And there's a lot of them, but here's the thing. 00:16:34.538 --> 00:16:37.017 It's not a judged show. 00:16:37.017 --> 00:16:39.639 It's not honest reaction. 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:40.899 You win. 00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:43.319 We don't have prizes. 00:16:43.319 --> 00:16:47.024 It's first come, first serve, first five. 00:16:47.024 --> 00:16:48.635 We had to tweak it now to five. 00:16:48.635 --> 00:16:49.906 We've had six or seven. 00:16:49.906 --> 00:16:51.748 That was just, that was a lot. 00:16:51.748 --> 00:17:01.075 So now we've got it honed down to five artists, open stage, two numbers, know, two sets, split tickets, split tips. 00:17:01.075 --> 00:17:02.897 You get to do whatever you want. 00:17:02.897 --> 00:17:05.670 And this is open stage where you don't have to be trans. 00:17:05.670 --> 00:17:06.471 We really are. 00:17:06.471 --> 00:17:12.976 This is open to everyone because again, drag and this is everything. 00:17:12.976 --> 00:17:15.567 drag, burlesque, spoken word, comedy. 00:17:15.567 --> 00:17:18.884 um Amazing. 00:17:18.884 --> 00:17:24.555 whatever your muse wants you to do, you do it. 00:17:24.555 --> 00:17:25.894 So I said, yeah, let's do it. 00:17:25.894 --> 00:17:33.837 And so that's called Spotlight, Late Night Spotlight, because that's always, it's too late for a lot of people, but it's a 10.30 PM show. 00:17:33.837 --> 00:17:35.147 I know, I'm so sorry. 00:17:35.147 --> 00:17:38.759 It's at 10.30 at night at the Phoenix, but it's live streamed. 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.399 It's streamed against the hybrid shows so people can watch from wherever. 00:17:42.399 --> 00:17:53.984 And we open it up to everyone, whether you're a veteran and You know, how we pitch it is, if you're a veteran, you've got a new act that you want to just see how this feels on stage. 00:17:53.984 --> 00:18:02.805 See how it feels to as you move, as you do your first choreography on stage for the first time, as you do your makeup or your outfits a certain way. 00:18:02.805 --> 00:18:03.605 How does that look? 00:18:03.605 --> 00:18:04.504 How does that feel? 00:18:04.504 --> 00:18:05.944 Okay, try it out. 00:18:05.944 --> 00:18:08.924 And of course, the newbies, the new people. 00:18:08.924 --> 00:18:10.544 Never stepped on stage. 00:18:10.544 --> 00:18:13.044 I've always dreamed of being on stage. 00:18:13.044 --> 00:18:15.305 I've always wanted to try. 00:18:15.305 --> 00:18:21.696 It's like this is your open opportunity to try it, to network. 00:18:21.696 --> 00:18:28.456 And, you know, we have show producers watching, we have other artists watching going, hey, you know what? 00:18:28.456 --> 00:18:30.017 We've got a show. 00:18:30.017 --> 00:18:31.956 Why don't you, I'm going to like pitch you. 00:18:31.956 --> 00:18:37.557 I'm going to like tell my director, this artist was amazing. 00:18:37.557 --> 00:18:39.656 I think we should have them as guest artists. 00:18:39.656 --> 00:18:44.550 So again, it's all about creating that space. 00:18:44.550 --> 00:19:00.669 where you can not only do that art, but you have opportunities, you have networking, you get to see what it's like, you've got a broad audience, I get a safe environment, you cheer, there isn't, you don't have to worry about being judged. 00:19:00.669 --> 00:19:13.916 Although this year we had three opportunities of mentorship, not judging, mentors, where we'd have four mentors from the community who I chose. 00:19:13.916 --> 00:19:24.151 who I thought were kind and caring and compassionate, who would truly give feedback that would elevate these artists. 00:19:24.151 --> 00:19:29.292 And our total spotlight is, the theme is called Gentleman's Choice. 00:19:29.292 --> 00:19:36.196 And it's, I got four gentlemen mentors and this is centered about masc-centered art. 00:19:36.196 --> 00:19:41.820 So like I said, drag kings are often looked down on, are often marginalized. 00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:43.000 And I said not. 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:44.560 not at this specific show. 00:19:44.560 --> 00:19:53.963 Not only is it all masc-centered art, we're bringing in four gentlemen um to be mentors to say, this is great. 00:19:53.963 --> 00:20:12.588 Here's how to elevate the look or the number or how you do the choreography so that they can tweak that number and really refine it and really maybe make it, you know, their showstopper number or the number that they're known by or number that they might use. 00:20:12.588 --> 00:20:13.315 you very much. 00:20:13.315 --> 00:20:19.769 to enter a competition or something, that's what the mentor shows up for. 00:20:19.769 --> 00:20:33.942 And spotlight overall is that mentoring opportunity that we want to give open stage, no judging, no competition, just that opportunity. 00:20:33.942 --> 00:20:38.566 So like you said, Alex, that mentoring is important, that nurturing is important. 00:20:38.566 --> 00:20:52.461 And so Transcendence overall, um That's what we do is we encourage the art and the mentoring and the safety and the supports that people can really create art that speaks to them. 00:20:52.461 --> 00:20:55.603 And that the audience could go, I have never seen that. 00:20:55.603 --> 00:20:56.222 We hear that. 00:20:56.222 --> 00:20:58.624 I have never seen that at a show before. 00:20:58.624 --> 00:21:10.388 um And then we're going, great, come back, come back, bring friends, come back, you know, cause it really makes our artists happy to see. 00:21:10.388 --> 00:21:22.711 people and the audience just absolutely thrilled and, you know, just have that wonder and that joy to share that art with. 00:21:22.711 --> 00:21:24.271 Absolutely. 00:21:24.271 --> 00:21:27.591 And that's what I love about Transcendence. 00:21:27.591 --> 00:21:30.731 It's so innovative, it's so fun. 00:21:30.731 --> 00:21:33.751 It's also just beautifully produced, of course. 00:21:33.751 --> 00:21:46.751 But it really feels so consistent with me, with the true spirit of drag, as somebody who's been out as queer for, I don't know, over a quarter of a century. 00:21:46.751 --> 00:22:06.754 Now, let's really seeing kind of, I think that when I first came out, Drag was really interesting because I felt there was a real contrast between the way that cisgender gay men, to be honest, did drag, especially white cisgender gay men, because I think there's an issue, there's a difference, right? 00:22:06.754 --> 00:22:12.588 There's an influence of white supremacy even on the drag scene in some ways, right? 00:22:12.588 --> 00:22:21.394 It's like if I think the way that white cis gay men were doing drag in the 90s is very different than what we're talking about. 00:22:21.394 --> 00:22:51.230 oh I feel like the way Transcendence does drag, really there feels like there is that connection to ballroom culture, to the house culture, to like, and that was really like, Folks of Color where it was very different, you know, in my understanding and having been, having had the privilege and the gift to go to some kind of ballroom events is such a different event than like cis white gay man doing drag, to be honest. 00:22:51.230 --> 00:23:06.101 And so You know, that's what I love about Transcendence that it's drag is not just about uh playing with gender, but it's truly about inviting people to question the norms, right? 00:23:06.101 --> 00:23:11.823 Even of gender question the boundaries of artistic expression, right? 00:23:11.823 --> 00:23:19.871 And really question all those like binaries that we might tend to fall back on in dominant culture and think. 00:23:19.871 --> 00:23:23.412 bigger, larger, brighter, more creatively, right? 00:23:23.412 --> 00:23:28.031 I just love the expansiveness of the shows, right? 00:23:28.031 --> 00:23:35.511 And to me that expansiveness is how I've experienced ballroom culture as an outsider. 00:23:35.511 --> 00:23:40.412 It's the expansiveness of how I think about what drag can bring to the world. 00:23:40.412 --> 00:23:46.291 And it does make me wonder if that is why there's been such a backlash. 00:23:46.291 --> 00:24:02.778 on the drag scene in the past few years, because as the scene has really honored this tradition of ballroom, uh brought us this amazing expansive artist and more artists of color, more Indigenous artists, more trans artists, right? 00:24:02.778 --> 00:24:08.260 Even in mainstream drag, if I think about, I think about drag race as a little more mainstream, right? 00:24:08.260 --> 00:24:13.215 And even seeing the shift that there's been in shows like Drag Race, right? 00:24:13.215 --> 00:24:30.615 if that starts to be a threat to a system or a dominant culture that wants more constriction and more rigidity and more binaries, whereas like drag really brings creativity and possibility and expansion for art. 00:24:30.615 --> 00:24:33.767 I don't know if that makes sense or if you resonate with any of that. 00:24:33.767 --> 00:24:40.942 Yeah, yeah, because you know, I mean, obviously, we've had this whole thing about drag story time, which really is sad. 00:24:40.942 --> 00:24:44.925 Because I've been I've had the privilege of doing drag story time. 00:24:44.925 --> 00:24:49.210 And when I'm looking at an audience of little children in their eyes are big and white. 00:24:49.210 --> 00:24:55.046 And I'm reading to them a story about, you know, feeling like a crayon. 00:24:55.046 --> 00:25:03.704 You know, there's that one book about You know, where you have a red crayon or a green crayon on the outside and a red crayon on the inside, right? 00:25:03.704 --> 00:25:07.924 And then you finally take off the wrapper and you're the red crayon and you're accepted. 00:25:07.924 --> 00:25:12.224 Finally, for who you are, obviously allegory, trans allegory. 00:25:12.224 --> 00:25:25.884 But when you read this to children who are three, four, five, six, seven years old, we're not talking about mix of cisgender, it may be queer, trans children. 00:25:25.884 --> 00:25:38.791 sure you see the rainbow pins and the trans pins sometimes with them but all I see are children who are like going this is a cool story and can I touch your dress? 00:25:38.791 --> 00:26:03.404 Can I you know can I can I look at your you can touch your dress can I look at your makeup and the hair can I have a photo and and it's not pushing an agenda right the only agenda pushing is first of all reading literacy and knowledge and being together as a community. 00:26:03.404 --> 00:26:25.115 And when I see all these children, regardless of race, regardless of gender, whatever, enjoying a story, that's all I'm doing is I'm sharing a story and then we get photos and I'm chatting to them and they're asking me the best questions like, your makeup is so sparkly. 00:26:25.115 --> 00:26:28.916 Yes, how do you make your makeup so sparkly, right? 00:26:28.916 --> 00:26:29.757 you do that? 00:26:29.757 --> 00:26:31.136 And then they want to look at my nails. 00:26:31.136 --> 00:26:32.596 So they want to try my rings. 00:26:32.596 --> 00:26:37.278 And I'm like, well, you know, I don't understand that hate. 00:26:37.278 --> 00:26:42.778 Because I don't think any of these people have actually attended a drag story time, honestly. 00:26:42.778 --> 00:26:46.077 They'd be saying, you're telling a story. 00:26:46.077 --> 00:26:47.066 I'm like, yeah. 00:26:47.066 --> 00:26:50.378 Yeah, and just looking fabulous while you do it. 00:26:50.378 --> 00:26:51.471 And that's the thing. 00:26:51.471 --> 00:26:53.422 Yeah. 00:26:53.422 --> 00:27:04.982 And that's why I think drag is such a beautiful celebration of imagination and possibility and what happens when we're not limited by constriction, right? 00:27:04.982 --> 00:27:08.975 If I think even, you know, my daughter, who you know, like... 00:27:08.975 --> 00:27:14.203 has been exposed in air quotes to drag since she was little. 00:27:14.203 --> 00:27:18.474 I think she probably saw her first drag show when she was like five or six, right? 00:27:18.474 --> 00:27:25.807 And she's in her twenties now and I'm pretty sure she would be fine with me saying this, but I'll check in with her. 00:27:25.807 --> 00:27:26.317 worry. 00:27:26.317 --> 00:27:28.478 Before I release this episode. 00:27:28.478 --> 00:27:37.580 And if you hear this Gender Stories, listeners or watchers, if you're watching on YouTube, please rest assured that this story is going to be shared with her consent. 00:27:37.580 --> 00:27:39.530 I will make sure I get her consent. 00:27:39.530 --> 00:27:43.033 but she's one of the most cisgender girls I've ever met. 00:27:43.033 --> 00:27:43.625 know what I mean? 00:27:43.625 --> 00:27:50.518 Like even my friends would tease me when they came to our house and be like, it looks like a pink dragon is puked all over this room. 00:27:50.518 --> 00:27:55.240 This is your child, you know, from this very queer household, you know? 00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.119 And she's always loved femininity. 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:03.802 And for her drag was just this like beautiful, expansive celebration of femininity, right? 00:28:03.802 --> 00:28:29.201 And I remember after she saw her first all ages, of course, family-friendly drag shows, because sometimes people don't understand that there are kind of adults-only drag shows, but there are also all-ages family-friendly drag shows, and so this would have been all-ages family-friendly drag shows, that what she was excited about was the imagination aspect, the dressing up, the performing. 00:28:29.201 --> 00:28:32.325 I remember, you know, practicing like lip syncing. 00:28:32.325 --> 00:28:33.845 and doing choreography. 00:28:33.845 --> 00:28:42.625 And a lot of that came from drag and seeing just how wonderful it is to just be yourself. 00:28:42.625 --> 00:28:51.805 And that message, I think, is so powerful, no matter what the identities of the kids involved in Drag Story Hour. 00:28:51.805 --> 00:28:54.284 Because this was before Drag Story Hour was the thing. 00:28:54.284 --> 00:28:58.204 It would have been 18 or so years ago. 00:28:58.204 --> 00:29:09.190 But even just like the celebration of imagination, creativity, glitter, glamour, show... 00:29:09.190 --> 00:29:14.134 person-ship, I don't know what to say, showmanship, show person-ship, right? 00:29:14.134 --> 00:29:26.144 And the centering of femininity, you know, which is traditional in drag, even though we have so many wonderful drag kings too, was what was really powerful. 00:29:26.144 --> 00:29:30.823 for her, especially because there were so many masc people in her life. 00:29:30.823 --> 00:29:35.519 She was surrounded by so many trans masc people and queer men. 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:46.538 so drag was like, yes, all the girliness and the femininity and the beauty and the makeup and the nails and the dress and the music. 00:29:46.538 --> 00:29:47.499 It's fabulous. 00:29:47.499 --> 00:29:50.061 It's just fabulous, if nothing else. 00:29:50.061 --> 00:29:53.966 And why do we want to take that away from anybody, especially children? 00:29:53.966 --> 00:29:55.217 who love imagination. 00:29:55.217 --> 00:29:57.124 don't know if that makes sense, but. 00:29:57.124 --> 00:30:03.173 Oh yeah, well I think it makes a good point because all ages drag shows versus adult shows. 00:30:03.173 --> 00:30:20.854 When we get an invite and we've been lucky to be at Pride like I think for the last three years now, I know I do the artist chat and I make it very clear, no more, no PG-13 perhaps, but nothing strong with the music, no F words, none. 00:30:20.854 --> 00:30:24.834 Maybe a damn, maybe a hell, maybe a shit. 00:30:24.834 --> 00:30:32.397 but we are performing in front of a mixed audience with very small children, like three, four years on up. 00:30:32.397 --> 00:30:37.738 And I always tell them, we have our venues where we perform, it's adults only. 00:30:37.738 --> 00:30:39.097 We can get raunchy. 00:30:39.097 --> 00:30:42.437 We can do our show, our rated, X rated songs. 00:30:42.437 --> 00:30:45.597 We can do the adult gestures and whatnot. 00:30:45.597 --> 00:30:51.677 But when we're doing an all ages show, let's tap into... 00:30:51.677 --> 00:30:53.841 Let this be creative, you know? 00:30:53.841 --> 00:30:58.801 Like I remember one artist said, I don't know how to do that because I've never done it. 00:30:58.801 --> 00:31:04.281 I said, well, now there's a great opportunity for you to expand that part of your art. 00:31:04.281 --> 00:31:05.442 If this is what you like to do. 00:31:05.442 --> 00:31:06.321 And they did great. 00:31:06.321 --> 00:31:08.101 They're like, oh my God, I'm a little intimidated. 00:31:08.101 --> 00:31:12.422 I said, just listen to a bunch of songs, you know? 00:31:12.422 --> 00:31:16.721 And they found something and they said, oh my God, I've got the, and the kids loved them. 00:31:16.721 --> 00:31:20.301 they just afterwards they're like, that was so much fun. 00:31:20.301 --> 00:31:21.791 And they couldn't wait to do the next. 00:31:21.791 --> 00:31:25.307 all ages show, which is the point, you know. 00:31:25.307 --> 00:31:29.543 But it is about fun, and it is about imagination, and it is about... 00:31:29.543 --> 00:31:40.907 I think as adults, we are told that we need to be adults and that we are not to be frivolous. 00:31:40.907 --> 00:31:48.029 And I think what an All Ages drag show allows everyone to do. 00:31:48.029 --> 00:32:00.803 You you can have the excuse, maybe excuse of, I'm bringing my kids or my nieces, nephews, nieblets to a drag show or my friends' kids to an All Ages drag show. 00:32:00.803 --> 00:32:02.013 But I wonder. 00:32:02.013 --> 00:32:13.822 As some of these adults, isn't that a grand excuse to be like, I get to also, you know, have that childlike glee and wonder and just let it go, let it go. 00:32:13.822 --> 00:32:27.645 Just enjoy and get caught up in the art and the imagination and the creativity and the music, you know, and hand, you know, tipping and it's so fun to tip, you know, because we just love. 00:32:27.645 --> 00:32:31.826 We love it when it's at all ages because the little ones come up with their dollar bills and we all melt. 00:32:31.826 --> 00:32:39.588 You can just see us just physically turn into piles of ghoul on the stage with these children. 00:32:39.588 --> 00:32:42.250 And it's just, it's just love. 00:32:42.250 --> 00:32:45.840 It's love from us to them. 00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:53.272 And one of the things I always say, you know, at Pride is you are our best hope. 00:32:53.272 --> 00:32:55.473 You are the next generations. 00:32:55.473 --> 00:33:08.908 You are hope and you are what we pour everything into because you'll be better than us and hopefully have more opportunities than we did and bust down more doors than we did. 00:33:08.908 --> 00:33:24.647 And again, just to build on the shoulders that you're standing upon, I want these kids who watch us now to be like, I watched drag and I understood that I could do whatever I wanted to do creatively. 00:33:24.647 --> 00:33:26.559 I didn't have to ask for permission. 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:31.243 didn't matter that I was Black or Brown or Indigenous. 00:33:31.243 --> 00:33:32.484 I could be up on that stage. 00:33:32.484 --> 00:33:40.350 It didn't matter if I wanted to do, you know, feminine drag, masc drag, androgynous, gender fluid drag. 00:33:40.350 --> 00:33:42.251 That was okay. 00:33:42.251 --> 00:33:46.175 What mattered was I could do art that spoke to people. 00:33:46.175 --> 00:33:48.067 I could do art that made people think. 00:33:48.067 --> 00:33:52.319 I could do art that made my heart sing regardless. 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:59.930 That's what this is all about is connecting with people and saying, was the show? 00:33:59.930 --> 00:34:10.923 And they said, I loved it because I could, this number or that number, or when your artists did this and they go, I got tears in my eyes or I felt such joy. 00:34:10.923 --> 00:34:13.123 It's like, then we did our job. 00:34:13.123 --> 00:34:37.925 Then that to us is a successful show is when we have people go, we come back because we feel this joy and we feel, we just feel and I think we are told so much, in this regime that we're in now, we're supposed to conform and not question and numb ourselves. 00:34:37.925 --> 00:34:59.289 And I think really that's what they're afraid of, you know, is because when you do art and when you tap into art or when you see art and you feel art and art is telling you Don't conform, don't give up, resist, don't give in. 00:34:59.289 --> 00:35:03.692 Support is community, support as all of us standing together. 00:35:03.692 --> 00:35:07.014 No regime wants to hear that. 00:35:07.014 --> 00:35:17.800 No fascist regime, no authoritarian regime wants to hear fight back and it doesn't have to be violence. 00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:21.728 It can be many different ways of fighting. 00:35:21.728 --> 00:35:27.459 back and if that's the nourishment that we're giving people, you're right. 00:35:27.459 --> 00:35:29.180 We are dangerous. 00:35:29.180 --> 00:35:45.304 We should be stopped because we're giving a message that they don't want given out to everyone, to the public, to nourish, to guide, maybe to spark. 00:35:45.304 --> 00:35:48.315 And I think that's to go back to what we first started about, right? 00:35:48.315 --> 00:35:55.647 Which is what is so dangerous about drag so dangerous about even Transcendence cabaret. 00:35:55.647 --> 00:36:06.630 It's because we are trying to provide different blueprints of joy and creativity and resistance. 00:36:06.630 --> 00:36:09.171 And I hate saying strength because you know got to be strong. 00:36:09.171 --> 00:36:18.734 That's really hot but strength and uh networking and connection and to provide all those different important parts. 00:36:18.734 --> 00:36:25.846 um to people who might have lost hope or are losing hope and provide hope. 00:36:25.846 --> 00:36:28.606 Rebellions are built on hope. 00:36:28.606 --> 00:36:31.126 There's my geek part coming out, right? 00:36:31.126 --> 00:36:32.746 And that's true. 00:36:32.746 --> 00:36:38.426 I remember Andor Season 2, oh my gosh, what a brilliant season. 00:36:38.426 --> 00:36:40.806 Like they said, they did this three years before. 00:36:40.806 --> 00:36:43.246 They storyboarded this three years before. 00:36:43.246 --> 00:36:46.346 This wasn't a three years now, we know what this is gonna be like. 00:36:46.346 --> 00:36:49.226 God, why would we want that three years from now? 00:36:49.226 --> 00:36:51.002 But here we are. 00:36:51.002 --> 00:36:57.749 And Andor gave that whole epic storyline about what does the empire do? 00:36:57.749 --> 00:37:00.970 What does a fascist regime do? 00:37:00.970 --> 00:37:03.532 What stories does it tell? 00:37:03.532 --> 00:37:06.253 Who does it make, right? 00:37:06.253 --> 00:37:08.614 The victims. 00:37:08.614 --> 00:37:09.994 Exactly. 00:37:09.994 --> 00:37:15.742 And then what does the resistance do to resist that? 00:37:15.742 --> 00:37:17.493 It's not always the big grand gestures. 00:37:17.493 --> 00:37:22.066 It's sometimes the small trickle, that steady stream. 00:37:22.066 --> 00:37:31.753 And if we are part of that steady stream in small ways, or we're seen as a big resistor in big ways, which puts a target on our backs. 00:37:31.753 --> 00:37:33.084 I'm aware of that. 00:37:33.084 --> 00:37:37.609 well. 00:37:37.609 --> 00:37:45.999 Absolutely, I love that that's where the conversation is going because in a way drag is resistance. 00:37:45.999 --> 00:37:58.313 Drag is resistance to, you know, um the normativity of like, is resistance to cis-gender or mononormativity is resistance to rigid gender norms. 00:37:58.313 --> 00:38:05.825 And in that way, it's also resistance to colonialism is resistance to white supremacy is resistance to fascism. 00:38:05.825 --> 00:38:17.814 And I don't think it's an accident that kind of oppressive regimes like the current fascist regime kind of targets intellectuals, artists, trans people, know, drag artists. 00:38:17.814 --> 00:38:18.495 You're right. 00:38:18.495 --> 00:38:26.701 We're dangerous because we invite people to keep dreaming, to keep dreaming into possibility, to ask questions. 00:38:26.701 --> 00:38:32.421 And I always say to people, let's just think about who benefits when you stop asking questions. 00:38:32.421 --> 00:38:39.661 Like who really benefits when we stop asking questions, when we stop dreaming, when we stop playing, because that's the other thing, right? 00:38:39.661 --> 00:38:43.721 You were saying like, as adults, we're told that some things are frivolous, right? 00:38:43.721 --> 00:38:44.701 Like play. 00:38:44.701 --> 00:38:46.701 And yet we need play. 00:38:46.701 --> 00:38:55.581 So drag is also form of play and joy and just celebration and community. 00:38:55.581 --> 00:39:01.781 and in that becomes a threat when we want people to just focus on. 00:39:01.781 --> 00:39:09.271 producing and upholding a system that only certain people benefit from, right? 00:39:09.271 --> 00:39:27.407 And so in that way, a dumping, it's an accident that Drag Story Hour, for example, has been so targeted because it does invite children to like dream into the fact that play doesn't have to end uh when you become an adult. 00:39:27.407 --> 00:39:30.637 Play might change, but we can still play dress up. 00:39:30.637 --> 00:39:39.560 we can still play make believe, we can still test artistic boundaries, and we can still honor each other's creativity. 00:39:39.560 --> 00:39:43.062 And I think drag is such a beautiful celebration of that. 00:39:43.062 --> 00:39:52.965 It's, you know, I tear up at drag shows and then I feel a little embarrassed because, you know, it's fun, it's a drag show, but it's the emotions move. 00:39:52.965 --> 00:39:55.721 You know, and I'm so excited. 00:39:55.721 --> 00:39:57.281 I had so many thoughts when you were talking. 00:39:57.281 --> 00:40:00.641 The other thing that I love, it's also that drag shows are interactive. 00:40:00.641 --> 00:40:04.401 You were talking about kids coming up with their little $1 bills, right? 00:40:04.401 --> 00:40:09.260 And in a way, that's also teaching children the mutuality of art, right? 00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:13.637 The artist is giving you a show and you're showing them appreciation, but like. 00:40:13.637 --> 00:40:19.813