The Village Halls Podcast

Building A Rural Youth Club

Marc Smith Season 6 Episode 7

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0:00 | 30:23

A youth club vanishes for three decades and the quiet cost is easy to miss: fewer safe spaces, fewer friendships, and fewer reasons for young people to feel that a village is theirs too. I’m joined by Lee Cross from Blymhill & Weston, who helps bring a youth club back through the village hall and proves you do not need a flashy budget to create something that matters. 

We talk through the real mechanics of running a rural youth club in 2026: how word of mouth still outperforms social media in tight-knit places, how to choose an age range when the “youth” population is small, and what actually happens on the night. Lee shares the practical menu that keeps young people coming back: table tennis, pool, card games, crafts, and flexible indoor activities for dark winter evenings, all stored neatly so the hall can still host weddings, food nights, and community events. 

We also get into the behind-the-scenes essentials that every village hall committee worries about: public liability insurance, safeguarding, volunteers, and DBS checks. On funding, Lee explains why keeping it free is non-negotiable, how an initial grant gets the project moving, and how donations and small community fundraisers help keep equipment maintained and the offer sustainable. One of the best surprises is the ripple effect on adults too, as parents stay, chat, and reconnect while the young people have their own space. 

If you want more practical ideas for village halls, community halls, and church halls, subscribe, share this with your committee, and leave us a review so more people can find the show. What would make young people choose your hall on a Friday night?

Awards, Sponsors, And A Standout Hall

Marc Smith

Hi, I'm Marc Smith and welcome to the Village Halls Podcast, sponsored by Allied Westminster, the UK's largest specialist provider of Village Hall insurance and the home of VillageGuard. Before we begin, a quick reminder that entries are now open for the Village Hall's Inspiration Awards 2026, celebrating the incredible work happening in village, community, and church halls across the country. You can apply from now until the 31st of October, so please do consider putting your haul forward. Now we get some wonderful entries into the Village Hall's Inspiration Awards, and one that really stood out last year came from Blymhill in Weston, a hall serving a handful of remote villages, and honestly, it does the lot. It's the village shop, it hosts the fitness classes, the 90th birthdays, the christenings, it put on the village's first ever music festival, and at the annual fete, you'll find dull drummers playing to three generations at once. But the thing that really jumped out of that entry was the youth club, the first one in 30 years. A place for young people to actually go and with a lovely twist, a place where their parents have actually started connecting with each other as well. So, how do you actually do

Why A Youth Club Returned

Marc Smith

that? How do you get young people through the door of a village hall in 2026? Well, the man who runs it is Lee Cross. Lee, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me, Mark. You're very welcome. So before we get started, it would be great if you can take us back to any memories, if fond memories that you have of your own village hall growing up.

Lee Cross

Yeah, I think it's it's really interesting for me because I was brought up outside of the village. So I'm a little bit of an outsider. Um, but I knew and heard about the village hall even when I was um growing up in secondary school and had friends that were within the village. So I would come over and kind of see them and spend um time just kind of wandering the countryside with them, which was which was which was fantastic. Um but the village hall that is currently there now was a very, very different beast back then. It was it was the old school, so we didn't have the capacity to do any of the of the fantastic things that we currently do now. Um, so yeah, it it's kind of a uh a tale of two halves, realistically. The the old village hall being the um the old school, which was not for the youth, was very much for local farmers and and and and stuff to connect. Um being the new village hall, which still serves that that same community, but has obviously got a younger population now around the village.

Marc Smith

Is that old school still there? The original kind of village hall.

Lee Cross

Yeah, yeah, somebody's house now, so that was converted. Um, and it's called the old school, so yeah, it's still converted and the people live there.

Marc Smith

All right, so as a youth you were kind of left your own devices then. You had to just go out in the woods and make up your make up your own fun.

Lee Cross

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And and you still see that obviously now um through through through the children that are within the village, and and you know, that's one of the reasons why why we wanted to to move here and and and give the freedom to the children that we've got.

Marc Smith

Yeah. So my next question was about like this kind of answers it, why there was such a huge gap. Like, why is there 30 years without a youth club? That's a long time. I can understand maybe five, ten years, but 30 years is a very long time to not have a youth club or anything for youths to do.

Lee Cross

Yeah, I I think it's got to be aligned to a need realistically. Um, obviously, we used to have a school here, so there would have naturally been children um around the area. They've obviously grown up and and and and some have moved away and created their own families away from the village. So I think there's an idea of that there just hasn't been a community of of younger people within the village itself until probably um I'd say probably the the past five or six years, realistically.

Marc Smith

Oh, right.

Lee Cross

Um but what but what's great is that the person who ran the youth club all those years ago still resides in the village, um and and it and it's and it's brilliant to see him around the village, but it's also brilliant to see the the older generation that still have fond memories of that youth club. They still talk about oh, it's great what you're doing, it's great that you know the kids get to experience youth club because we loved it when we would attend. So it's it's still prominent in their memories 30 odd years ago.

Marc Smith

I think that's why it's so important because yeah, those kind of memories they do they do last. Uh you know, if you've got youth clubs, I still remember mine from uh it was like a church hall that we had there, and I still remember them quite fondly. Uh so are you seeing are there more children moving into the village or being born in the village, and that's why it's expanding or because I think when we originally spoke, you cover a large area, there's quite a lot of villages.

Lee Cross

Yeah, there's this there's there's obviously limit itself, but then it's all kind of disaggregated into little parts of it, you know. Um, so the smaller areas do kind of build up, and and obviously we don't reach out as much to the the young people in Western, um, which is kind of attached to us. Um, and to be honest, I don't know why that is. Uh it's not a long distance away between Blymhill and Weston. So I suppose that's a that's a question um for me to reflect upon to go why are we not um engaging with with with with the youngsters of of Weston? Why are they deciding maybe not to attend um the youth club? Um but there has definitely been a surge of um younger families coming into into into the area. Um so I think that's driven um the the need for things for young for young people to do.

Marc Smith

How many uh young folk are around the area?

Lee Cross

Um I'd I'd probably say because I'm just thinking, if we think about there's quite a lot of families, I suppose that were uh are all going to have at least two or three children. So it always looks like there's probably quite a few, but when you when you start to narrow it down, it might actually only be a handful of uh of families. Um but I would say you know, you've got you've you've got to at least have about 60 odd kids um around the air.

Marc Smith

That's a lot, yeah. Yeah, well, to me, that's that's a lot, that's a good number. Um yeah, I can I understand that there's definitely a need. I'm not sure what the the line is when there's a need to have a youth club, probably over 10. So six times that I think that's that's really quite uh quite uh good. Uh

Who It Serves And Age Mix

Marc Smith

yeah. So do you uh when you do your youth club, do you have different age range? Do you like uh like five to ten year olds at one time and then eleven to sixteen year olds at a different time, or you can you put them all together?

Lee Cross

And yeah, so when when we initially launched it, um I think just from a I suppose from a skill set um aspect of obviously being a secondary head teacher, I kind of wanted that secondary age group. It was something that I felt a little bit more comfortable with. Um but because of where we live, they still operate the um middle school system. So I wanted to still maybe go a little bit lower. So we initially said, you know, anything from 10 upwards. Um, but obviously if parents wanted to stay with their child, if they were at that 10 or 11 in middle school, then they were more than welcome to do so. Um, but yeah, it was it was initially aimed at that secondary age group. Um, but you know, at times we've had people younger than that, um, we've had some four and five-year-olds, um naturally their their parents have have initially stayed um just to help with that social interaction because there is there is obviously a big gap between a five or a six-year-old and a seventeen-year-old, and oh yeah, what what they might like is going to be very different to each other.

What A Youth Club Night Looks Like

Marc Smith

Yeah. Can you take me through uh an event at the youth club? I was gonna say an evening, but is it is it is it an evening normally or is just any time?

Lee Cross

Yeah, it is an evening, so we've ultimately the big thing is that we I look to plan six um kind of youth clubs throughout the um academic year, um, and that starts with conversations with the village all committee because obviously they're gonna have particular events that are already pre-booked into into that hall, and Fridays are generally quite popular um for them as well as it is um for for me. So there might be a wedding on, there could be a vinyl night on there, or there could be um Blymhill bites is quite popular at the moment where we get a food truck that comes into the area for for a slot of time to offer kind of new foods. Yeah, so I have to kind of initially work around that. Um, but then what what ultimately happens is you know, myself and and and and my family and we'll will kind of arrive at about 6:30. Um, we'll set up the activities um for the for the young people, and then they're pretty they're pretty sharp, they're there for seven o'clock on the dot um to to kind of get in. That's impressive. Yes, that they're there um on time, um, and it runs till nine o'clock. So we have a good couple of hours, and the sorts of activities that we're we'll we'll have, obviously, it is an element of weather dependent in the winter months. It is pretty much I'd say it's it's a little bit more um confined, um, just the nature of of the weather and the and the darker nights. But we'll always have, you know, we'll always have table tennis in there, we've got um a snoot uh a pool table that we'll have in there. There'll always be a variety of card games that the young people can kind of engage in. There'll there'll still be some sort of colouring-based task as well for them or a craft-based task as well. We've got um indoor canjam, which is kind of a frisbee game that they can play. Um, we've got Jasminton, which again is a version of um badminton, but instead of going over a net, you kind of go through a hole. Um Jasminton. Yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting game.

Marc Smith

That sounds quite cool, actually. Yeah, I'll need to have a look into that. And are all these activities uh do you bring them in from outside or are some of them in the hall? You know, like the pool table, obviously, I take it that belongs to the hall that you hire out.

Lee Cross

No, so everything has been purchased now by the the the youth club, um really and it's housed in the in the village hall um to enable us to obviously then just set it up. So we've got um quite a big stage area, and underneath that stage is an absolute huge storage facility. So at the end of the night, everything kind of gets packed up nicely. We we we we close that kind of um drawer, and then it's if you it's as if you don't know we've ever been in there, and and again, that's because of the the dual um purpose of the of the larger room, the bigger venues that they have. They need to make sure that it's it's all neat and tidy.

Getting Started With Word Of Mouth

Marc Smith

It's it's quite a big undertaking, uh, all that. So what's how do you actually get started? What was the first thought and what was the first thing you had to do to get your the people through the door?

Lee Cross

I think if if if we think about it from the from the young people's point of point of view, you know, how do we get them to to attend the the youth club? It really was just word of mouth. Um, obviously I've got younger children still as well, and and they'll be playing on the park. So it was a it was a case of I suppose feeding through them in terms of idea, you know, would would people attend, would people want a kind of a space that they could kind of come? And it was just an overrounding, yeah, positive. Yeah, yeah, where yeah, we do. So it just started very much at that point of saying, yeah, I think I'm gonna set something up um to my kids sort of thing. Can you just make sure that it doesn't flop, make sure that people turn up and then the word of mouth kind of hit pretty pretty hard.

Marc Smith

Well, that's good. That's good. Yeah, what you everyone everything's built around social media and paid ads and magazines, but yeah, word of mouth is probably still in the in particular the smaller communities, word of mouth is the strongest way to get your the word heard, really.

Lee Cross

And I think it's around that understanding of you know, children can be very, very persuasive. So I think once and persistent, so I think once they found out that something was happening, um, I I'm just I'm just confident that they would have been nagging to the nth degree to parents to go, we've got to go this on Friday, it's gonna be amazing. You've just got to get me there, you've got to get me there. Um, so I think that that kind of then bit of peace of mind um from a parent of that they're not gonna win this battle, so they might as well turn them. That's a good thing about kids, isn't it?

Marc Smith

Yeah, definitely, definitely. So I obviously the kids all thoroughly enjoy it, but behind the scenes, it must be quite uh a task to get

Insurance, DBS, And Volunteer Basics

Marc Smith

everything organized. So you'll have I assume you'll have to go through insurance. Do you have uh volunteers that you you bring on uh to help running the evening? What's it all take from behind the scenes?

Lee Cross

Again, we are really, really lucky in the fact that the um village hall already has um the appropriate public liability insurance because they host so many events already. So the the easiest thing was for me to just make contact with them and then I ultimately come under their umbrella. I'm running an event out of their um their organization. So that just ticked that off beautifully. It was something that I didn't have to worry about or or was concerned about at all. Yeah, um, so that was nice. Um from a from a DBS perspective, I know that's been a particular worry for a lot of people. Um, but again, because the people that are volunteering are myself, um, a lady called Sue Buckle, she works already within education, but more um post-16, um, and and my wife as well, who's a district nurse. So all of us hold an enhanced DBS anyway. So again, we didn't have that as a worry or a concern for setting things up. So it was quite once I'd said that we were gonna do it, and I'd kind of informed the the village hall that it was gonna happen, it we it was instant. What data have we got then, Lee? Let's get advertised. So, yeah, we we are really, really lucky um on that aspect.

Marc Smith

It sounds like a great community, actually. Everyone there basically pulling their weight.

Funding It Free And Keeping It Going

Marc Smith

Yeah, so so when it comes down to funding, which is always a sticking point in any any community-driven project, how do you go about getting funds to help purchase equipment and basically to keep keep it running?

Lee Cross

Yeah, and and and that is that's something that I was really, really clear on. If if I was going down this avenue of of supporting the young people and providing this as a kind of a service for them, that had to it had to be free, it had to be built into what we do already within within within the community. So it was it was a non-negotiable for me. No parent or child would would pay for youth club, and that that that was the starting point. Um to start off the big kind of surge, I went because I'm also on the um I'm a parish councillor. So because I was sitting on that parish council, I was I was kind of privy to maybe some potential funding applications that were coming within um, not within the parish council, but actually within the county council. So I was able to apply for it for an initial grant. Um and and I got um, I think about six or seven hundred pounds initially.

Marc Smith

Right.

Lee Cross

Um, and from that it was about I had to have something that was sustainable, but anything else could just be on equipment based. Um, so my first kind of sustainable aspect was I actually purchased a line marker. All right, so we've got a we've got a like a really, really nice field around the park. Um, and the vision was always to have that facility that when youth club wasn't open, they still had somewhere to go, and anybody could access that field and it would be marked. So that was my kind of sustainability aspect for that, and then if everything else was just about let's just get as much equipment as we possibly can um for the for the remaining um couple of hundred quid and just keep it ticking over, but that was a couple of years ago, and we we we did well, you know. We we we got some decent equipment and it and it was nice. Um, and then following that, because we have so many other events that are around the village, people then just started to acknowledge the work that we were doing and would just be dropping donations into us. So you know, we'd had the village shop, so the village shop obviously is a non-profit organization, but they decided that they wanted to help out at the end of their financial year, so they gave they gifted some money. We host the the the Blymhill 10K, so a running event obviously that we do every year. We were decided um that we were going to be one of those charities, the actual village hall itself. They they again they're a non-profit and volunteer organisation, so they then gifted some further money into us as well. So at the moment we're sitting, we're sitting pretty healthy um in in terms of finances, but it is still something that I'm I'm conscious of around that sustainability of how do I ensure that we've got sufficient funds now to bring new things into into the mix, but also naturally accidents happen, there is damage to kind of equipment, and making sure that it doesn't sit damage for long or we're getting things back um up and up and running because if the pull isn't good enough, people will stop attending.

Marc Smith

Yeah, it's really good you kept it free for the for the young folk. Uh that's actually quite a big deal, but it and it's nice to also hear that there's like random donations coming in as well. Uh so that's obviously word of mouth. People are hearing good things about it and think, you know, it's it's like a little investment in your community.

Lee Cross

Yeah, definitely. And again, it doesn't matter what sort of like size, you know, it it's just it's anything that can kind of help. You know, we'd got from one of our one of the local children's homes closing down in the area, but they've got two um steel-framed goals. So I'd approach them and went, okay, listen, if you're closing, could we have these? They'll they'll service still um the whole community so they come onto the onto the playing field. So as well as it being line marked, they've now actually got goals, so it it makes it more purposeful and exciting as well to go and have a game of five-a-side football, but you know that you've got a kind of a goal there as well, which is which is which is brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Parents Staying, Socialising, And Playing Too

Marc Smith

Yeah, it really is excellent. So part of the entry uh was talking about how the parents were also connecting within the youth club. Can you take us a little bit through that as well? Because that's quite an interesting byproduct of the youth club.

Lee Cross

Yeah, I I think that the parents have have generally been quite close anyway within their own um, I suppose, community, and they're they're they're probably aligned with their children because they they kind of know each other. But what was um what became more apparent is as you say that that initial probably pestering of the of the of the kids going, come on, you've got to take us youth club, you've got to take us to youth club, ended up being more like the parents going, we're going youth club because like we love youth club, it's brilliant. And I remember what it was like having a youth club as you spoke about that that nostalgia, and it's quite nice for the parents now to kind of see their children having those similar experiences to what they had as a child, a place to go and and somewhere where they can be safe, they can have uh a chat with their mates, they can you know they can be a little bit freer without um having to kind of worry. Um, and and I think that they've really enjoyed that. Um, but equally so it's it's a great couple of hours if they want to take that to themselves and and you know have an evening at home. But but typically it is they they stay in the bar uh and they have an absolutely amazing time because the bar and the community village hall are separate um and divide. Um but then once the youth club is finished, it it's just brilliant to be able to pull the big divider back, and then we've got a bit more of an open space. We have been known to just leave like the table tennis out, so then you know, dads and mums can have a game of table tennis, um, and and it's just something that they can kind of do, either just them two, or whether they want to like involve their kids again and just do something to connect with with their child.

Marc Smith

Actually fantastic that parents are choosing. Okay, they could go home and just watch tele clean, do whatever parents do, but they're actually choosing to stay and watch our kids having fun. Well, it does help you've got a bar. But it definitely is and knowing you're gonna have a game of ping pong after you've been to a bar is like it's brilliant. It really is.

Lee Cross

And it's really not, and again, I don't know what that what the what the takings look like on a Friday, but like I on that on a youth club day, it definitely feels busy in that club when I'm kind of dropping um packed everything up and we kind of go into the bar after. Um there's a real there's a real appreciation from parents. Um, you know, there's not a there's not a moment that goes by on that particular day after youth club or in the subsequent weeks where I'm not seeing a parent that is going like, thanks for doing what you're doing. We really, really appreciate that. Um it it's great for the kids. So they do they value it as well.

Marc Smith

That's really good, yeah. That's really amazing. Is there any chance you could send a few photographs on so I can add them to the page? Just it it's it's look, it sounds really amazing. And I I'm trying to picture what it's like in my head. Do you have any photographs you can send on? Yeah, that'd be Be quite good to add in there. It's really quite impressive what you've done. But I suppose because it's already set up and it's working away, I'm I'm pretty certain there'll still be challenges uh burrowed away in there. What are some of the challenges you still

Challenges, Boundaries, And Wider Reach

Marc Smith

face? Just to just to maintain it, I suppose.

Lee Cross

Yeah, yeah. As you said, that the funding question is is still there and it's always going to be around that to ensure that we've got that stability um moving forward and still aligned to that idea of you know it it it will be free and it is part, it's the it's our offer to the community, you know, that that's kind of what it what it's about. The other thing is uh I suppose the question that we started at the very beginning was how do we make sure that new people to the village or other parts of our parish um to understand why they don't attend? Um is is is there a particular barrier or worry that they've got as to why they don't attend youth club? And it might be that they just don't want to, and that's absolutely fine. Yeah, but I suppose it's just posing those questions um to understand, yeah, is is it something that we're not doing or do they just are we just not connecting? I don't I don't know. I suppose that's something that I need to think about um and try to unpick a little bit more.

Marc Smith

Yeah, yeah. How far afield do people come to to go to these clubs?

Lee Cross

We are get like I think the last one, so what was the end of the summer term? So in July, we did have two new people that had come from um another village. Um I think they're from Brood or Bishopswood. So that's a good probably five or ten minute drive. Right. Um and that's kind of opened up because some of the children within the village go to scouts, so obviously that's where the scouts are. Um so again, that's kind of broadening those those those kind of connections. Um, but that's not what it's about for me at the end of the day. It's it's not feeling quite selfish, it's about our community within that kind of that local locality, um, to give them a space that they can actually utilize. Uh it doesn't I'm not interested in an exponential growth of loads of kids coming from all over, because I think then that does create more of a concern and a worry in that in that background aspect of I know all of the children that attend youth clubs, so therefore I know all of their parents. So then if something does happen, I know where to go. Yeah, if we then got people that I don't know, it becomes a little bit more um difficult in registration and and looking at those insurance details and stuff a little bit more detailed.

Marc Smith

Yeah, yeah, no, that makes total sense, yeah. Definitely.

Practical Advice And A Lemonade Fundraiser

Marc Smith

So I'm sure there's a committee listening just now wondering what we can do. So, what would be your advice to them basically for the first step? What do they need to do to get a youth club started if they feel there's a need for it in their community?

Lee Cross

Yeah, I I think it is about that. Look at what what that need is in the first instance, and and and as I said, prioritize your own parish and your own your own community, just provide that opportunity for those as kind of individuals. I do think it's a lot easier if you have got somebody that's already working within the education or within health or anyone that's already got an enhanced EBS because, again, that offers a real reassurance to parents, you know, they're entrusting their child. Um, so I think that that definitely that that helps. Um, and I know we've got one particular um child who has got um some special educational needs, yeah, and I know that's really really reassuring for the parents to know that their child is safe and looked after for those two hours. Um, and I don't know if if he would attend any other kind of youth club if it wasn't one in in in such um small locality to him. So I think it is around that understanding what your what your kind of client base is. Um but don't be afraid, just do it. Even if you can only provide a sofa for the kids to sit on and a deck of cards in the first instance, it's just somewhere where the where the children can can come together, sit and connect, um, as I said, in in in a safe place.

Marc Smith

Yeah, that's what that's a sound advice. I just it's basically just it can grow naturally over time. Um I think the kids will help do that as well because they will offer suggests I'm sure you get suggestions all the time from kids. Can we get one of these? Can we do this? Can we get that?

Lee Cross

It is it is constant, and and and literally just recently when we had the um the world cup, what was great, we'd got um a selection of people from um the youth club, they decided that they were gonna make lemonade. I'm sorry, okay, they're gonna they're making lemonade. So they made lemonade, they created a lemonade store, they put that outside of the the village hall when the the world cup game was on for for England. Um, and I think their total was around £84 generated and raised, um, which will go back into youth club. But that gives me a little bit more of a um a buffer that I can then potentially explore other businesses to see if they'll match fund that so we can make the most of that 84 quid that the kids have made.

Inspiration Awards Plug And Closing

Marc Smith

That's fantastic. Uh yeah, that's that's really really interesting. I'm so glad that you um I'm not sure if it was yourself, but the that put the entry in for the inspiration awards.

Lee Cross

Now it was so volunteers, but no one knew it was her, so she did keep that a big secret.

Marc Smith

Yeah, I'm so glad you know, and that's one of the main things that um the Village Hall podcast is about, like practical stuff. And when when I read that um in in the awards, I thought it's it's such there was honestly, there were so many good, fantastic ideas. In fact, again this year, obviously, we do have the awards on again. There's just all these amazing things that are going on around the UK that you don't know, and it's a shame that if I'm gonna try and make as many podcasts as I can about these great ideas because it's a shame to be missed, even though they might not win, you can't miss out on these on these ideas because that's what it's that's what the podcast was for, is to kind of spread the word of uh village, like what you can do in your village hall. And I think what you've done there is as a is I think a prime example of of what can be done.

Lee Cross

And and thank you for acknowledging it, because again, it is as you said, it's something that we felt that we could we could we could offer, um, and it was something that was definitely missing in an already full and busy um village hall committee um calendar who do, as you say, already do so much, but it yeah, I think it's the cherry on the top, realistically. Now we we've got we've got truly all ages and all kind of genres of style and kind of address now within within the village community.

Marc Smith

Yeah, it's excellent. That really is good. Well th well thank you, Sue, uh for for putting the entry in, and thank you, Lee, for coming on the podcast. It really is it's a real honour to talk to you, and it's been fantastic to hear how you've done what you've done. It really it really is. It's nice to see young folk being catered for and not forgotten about, like those like what happened. You just assume that they're all out playing, but they're not really, and you've done a great thing there. So it's really good. Really, really good.

Lee Cross

Thanks so much, Mark, for your time as well and organising this.

Marc Smith

No worries at all. Many thanks to our headline sponsor and specialist Village Hall insurance provider, Allied Westminster, the home of VillageGuard, for making this podcast possible. And to online booking system provider Hallmaster, who also sponsor our podcasts and can be found at hallmaster.co.uk. You've been listening to the Village Halls Podcast, a unique listening community for Britain's village, community and church halls and anyone interested in the vital services they provide. Don't forget, entries for the Village Halls Inspiration Awards 2026 are open from now until the 31st of October. So visit our website to find out more and get involved. We will be back again soon with another episode. For more information, visit the VillageHalls Podcast.com where you'll also find links to our social media pages. Thanks again for listening in, and until next time, goodbye for now.