Why People Want What They Can’t Have

What is it about the chase that keeps people interested?

In this episode of Coffee & Cleavage, Claudia Fijal and Lynnie Marie dive into the psychology behind “cat and mouse” dynamics in modern dating and relationships. From playing hard to get to emotional push and pull, we explore why people often want what they can’t have and how attraction can quickly turn into a game.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Coffee and Cleavage. Welcome, guys. I'm Lenny. And I'm Claudia. Hello, Gary.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hey ladies. Gary. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Pretty good. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:09

We love Gary in studio. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

I'm glad you guys love me on the pod still. I'm stoked you guys have me.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Gary, everybody loves you and they want to know what you look like, but we we just can't let that piece of it go, you know? It's kind of like pooping in front of your partner in a relationship. You just you gotta except for me, me and my husband do it in front of each other all the time. But but you know, you're that element where we just can't quite people always ask, what does he look like?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

You could just describe yourself a little. Yeah, just can you describe yourself?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

I keep it a mystery. You could describe me if you want one day.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

He's four foot eleven, about two hundred and eighty pounds.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I'm like 260.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

260. I mean, your voice is really deep, so you you're you're definitely stocky deep. Big little man. Big little man. Oh my god. Well, what are we talking about today, Miss Linny?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Well, first, um, let's thank our sponsor.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

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SPEAKER_02 2:29

Thank you. Mr. Dr. Maniti.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

I always call him Mr. It's Doctor.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Yes, thank you for being our official sponsor of Coffee and Cleavage. Thank you. So today's topic. Yes Cat and Mouse, they and dating.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Does it work? Does it does it work? I think that is what dating is, don't you think? Pretty much. Yeah. Gary, are are you Mr. Cat and Mouse? Do you play games in relationships?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Um, I think I have.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Oh I've heard some of your stories. I think you're a little playboy.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I feel like relationships a lot are just kind of like that. It's like a game almost. I mean, essentially that cat and mouse is kind of seems like a game.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

It's the oldest game in history. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I'm gonna play hard to get and he's gonna come after me. It's just like this fucked up game, you know, and it's like who can play it better?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah. So cat is the one chasing, mouse is the one being chased. Do you feel like you've been more cat or more mouse in relationships?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Um, the one being chased. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Everyone loves being in the mouse.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Everyone loves being the mouse.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Everyone loves the person being like, hey, what are you doing? You're like, shh, I'm not writing you back. And it's like, you can keep texting me. It's like everyone loves that shit.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I feel like what my husband was actually the one that gave us the idea for this episode. And it's so funny because he's like, I am the master of cat and mouse. And I'm like, damn.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Like of both sides, too. Cat and mouse.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

I mean, he's worth chasing. That's that's for damn sure. But like now it makes me feel like, was I the mouse? Was I the one that was being chased?

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Was I the one chasing?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Like, hold on a second. Have you seen that meme that's like, one day my husband decided to go look for a hoe and I was the one he chose? Like, it's true. It's like it's like that. It's like, who's the cat? Who's the mouse? But yeah, some of his stories this man has told me.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

I'm like, damn, you're can the cat turn into the mouse?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Because I mean, it's like, okay, the the mouse, it's like, can it turn into the cat? That's why I just I wanna I wonder. Like, can the rules reverse?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, yeah. I think so. I think usually if you're a submissive type of person, you usually stay submissive and you're dominant, you kind of stay dominant. But I think there are certain situations where those tables could turn.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Because the cat's always chasing if the mouse is kind of just like, okay, don't care anymore. Then the cat's like, whoa, what the fuck? And then it the rolls. And the roll rolls, yeah. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

You stop texting back, and then the person's like, huh, hold on.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

It's just the it's just the game, and it's like people love that shit and people hate it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Yeah, I don't know. I I think I've always I don't know if I've ever like pursued something like that. I mean, I feel like my husband I pursued because I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but I feel like in in that situation, we were both the cat, you know, because we both wanted it. Yeah. You know, and in but and I guess in that sense, I guess we were both the mouse too.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Oh, that's kind of cute. That is cute.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I think that only lasts like to a certain age because then after people are like, I don't want to play this shit anymore. I'm too old for this shit. You know, when you're like 20s, you're kind of like, all right, like you play that like hard to get and it works. And then, but when you're older, you're just like, I'm not playing this stupid shit anymore.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

You think so, but then you hear about like stories how like uh like retirement homes are like the number one places for like STDs. Because they'll they're playing the games too. I don't think it ever ends. I think we just get older.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

I don't think it ever ends either. My dad is, you know, always, you know, it seems like it still goes on. Really?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah. So your dad's like a like like likes to date around, always looking for someone. Nice. What's up, dad? That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yes, maybe he'll be a guest one day.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, can we bring your dad on? Iconic.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Icon, he would love that.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

He probably would.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

We would just have to put our tits away for that one because that'd be awkward. Button it up.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah, I think he'd love you, Claudia.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Me, I'm sure. Yeah, dads love me.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

So you can wear a shirt, I too. Like, I love hot dads.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I love hot dads. Oh my god, I totally love it. Yes, yeah, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Who's this Dan guy? That's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

So, why why does cat and mouse feel so good? Why do people like this shit?

SPEAKER_02 6:44

I mean, I would think the mouse would like it more than the cat, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

No, some people like the chase though.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yeah, yeah. I wish I wish my husband was in this because I I wonder, like, do people like the chase? Or, like, because it's like the thrill of a kill, right? Exactly. It's like it's like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

But yeah, if it's wanted though. Do you think if it's like because if you're chasing someone, they're like, leave me the fuck alone, and you're like, no, come here.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Like, I mean But that makes them chase more if somebody doesn't want it. Like, you get to a point where like you're just like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the more I do it, the more they're gonna, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Mm-hmm.

unknown 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

I'm just thinking though, like, okay, if you're chasing a girl and she's just like, no, seriously, I'm not into it, and it's like, I'm gonna chase you more than that. Well, that's different, yeah. Like you're not calling me back, but I'm gonna keep calling you and shit. It's like, how do you know when to be like, okay?

SPEAKER_02 7:30

The uncertainty, uncertainty builds obsession for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah. And it's interesting because you're like, I'm not gonna text him back. And then he stops texting you and you're like, hold on a second. Wait a minute. Yeah, why aren't you texting me?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

You know, like it's well, also, like I mentioned in previous episodes, it's hard because you know, everyone's on social media, so you go on Instagram and it's like you follow them and you're like, Wow, cool, you didn't text me back, but you're on Instagram and you've just posted everyone's gonna be like kind of like in a way, like, have their feelings kind of hurt by that. Like, okay, cool. And before that would never happen. You're just like, okay, they're busy. Like they're busy, that's why they're not writing me back, you know, and like now it's kind of not like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

So yeah, I don't think it's like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

When they post a meme, you know, and they go back to the case. And you're like, God, that was directed toward me.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Yeah, oh my god, I hate that. Oh, that's about me. No, babe. Not everything's about you. When when does, in your in your opinion, when does cat and mouse work? When when is that a time where you like you feel like okay, like this, this, this is working?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

I think it's playful and not, you know, yeah. Yeah, I think that works. Um when both people are secure.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

True. True. Yeah, they both want it. Because like you said, you can't chase somebody that both want it.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

That that doesn't want it. Yeah. Do you think typically the guys are more of the cats?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Typically.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Girls are the mice.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Mouse. And also stages of life, right? Like I'm not chasing anybody, you know, at this point.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

I feel like women feel more like I should be the one being chased. I'm not gonna go after a guy. Maybe women, some women don't think that, but I mean, I feel like you think most kind of do think that. Like, I'm I'm the woman. I'm gonna I should be the one that's being chased.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

To a degree, yeah. Like, because you want to be, you want to be wind and dined, you want to be, you know, shown you're important. So yeah, I I I'd want to be chased if I was single. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I don't want to do the the work.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

No, you know, like the cat and mouse, if you had to ask the guy out, like he's not asking me. So I guess I'll ask him, like, hey, you want to go to dinner? Would you feel would that be fine with you, or would you feel maybe to get the ball rolling, but I've kind of I kind of feel like that's your place. Yeah, like he's supposed to be doing that. Why am I doing that? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Hell yeah. Yeah, that'd be weird.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

That's where I feel like women always love being the mice.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

In that sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Like there are some things that are traditionally that should remain as they are with men leading the and I totally think that too, because I would rather be the cat going after the mouse, like as a woman, like going chasing the woman like that, not like the other way around, like, hey, do you want to go out? I'd feel like kind of emasculated, like, but everyone's different in that way. That's just me.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

I was talking to my hairstylist about this yesterday because she had a guy that wanted to fly her out to visit her, right? And to me, that's like I'm not flying to you. Yeah, absolutely the hell not. Like, if you want to spend time with me, you're flying to me. Yeah. Like putting a woman on a flight is so deranged to me. Like, that's so weird.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

So that's where people are it's I would never if I met someone online, I'm like, okay, I would never be like, hey, yeah, you should fly to me. No. I'd be like, no, I'll come there if it was all like she wanted me to and everything. It's like, hey, like mutual.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

I guess that they're like, hey, I booked you a first class ticket.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

So and you put her on Southwest.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

But why wouldn't he go to her?

SPEAKER_01 11:11

That's what I'm saying. Like, that's so weird. A woman should never come to you.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Even first class, it's like, why would you not go there first and then be like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Once the relationship's like going and like, you know, like, okay, you're working, I should come to you. But like when you're starting to get the ball rolling, like flying a woman to you is like you a southwest.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Oh my god, romantic. Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

I could or it's an exit rail.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah. Oh my god, I could, I would literally block him so fast. There is no way. Yeah, but if you're like, I booked you a first class flight, I made accommodations, I'm having a car pick you up. Like that's different, but like, oh my god, that is like the quickest way to not cat and mouse me. Fuck that. Can you imagine Dan being like, No, are you serious? No. No. Actually, when we started dating, when literally, this is a true story. When we started dating, I asked him one night, I'm like, this is literally right as we started dating. I'm like, how soon can you be here? Like, I want to see you. And I was thinking, like, he owns a business, like he's gonna be a week or two, you know, he's gotta make accommodations, get employees to, you know, move schedules around, whatever. He literally booked the next flight out, the next flight out, which was like a 6 a.m. flight. And he figured out how to get his interns to work for him and do everything he needed to do. Like, that is a man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Not oh well, then maybe you can't.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Well, yeah, you make it happen when you want to. That's what you should do. Right. Like as a man, like, yeah, you want to see, yeah. I mean, you want to see this person you care about. So it's like you make it happen. You don't be like, Well, I'm working, you fly here.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah. And that's the cat and mouse where like you need to be a a leader in that sense. Where I think, you know, in that case, men should be, you know, the cat.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah. And let a woman feel special too. Cause like that's that's a big part of it, especially when you start dating. Like, this is the time to woo somebody.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

So you shouldn't, as a man, be wanting to be wooed.

unknown 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Exactly. Yeah. I've I've always had a problem with, you know, when you're dating someone, and if they they take you out to dinner. I've I've dated someone who did this one time where they left the check sitting there for so long. It got really awkward when like you're supposed to pick it up? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

And you've picked it up.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

I have.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Lenny.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

But it was so awkward.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

When you do that though, it's like because you're unsure of who's paying. That's what's weird about it. It's like you should be like, oh, yeah. But a man should always pick up the tab.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah. Yeah. That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

I'm like, that's what the fuck.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

So you just paid and you were and you were like, oh, thanks.

unknown 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

I I heard one of my girlfriends recently told me that she and a guy went out to dinner. He asked her out to dinner. They went 50-50 on the bill.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Fucking went Dutch.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah. It gets worse. They had dinner and they were sitting there talking for a little bit. And they didn't have dessert during the dinner. So they ordered a second round of dessert. Or like a like a round of dessert after they already paid the bill. And then he picked up the bill for the dessert, which is 20 bucks or something. And then after the date, he texts her and he goes, Hey, you owe me like$13 for the dessert.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

What the fuck? Are you serious?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

He's like, it's cool. You can Venmo.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Sends a Venmo request. Yeah. That's crazy. Times are tough. Wow. That is crazy talk to me. Yeah. And she was like, Do you think that's like normal? I'm like, no. That's not normal. Block him.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Like, are you you're fucking joking?

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Block him. Fuck God. I'm so glad I'm not single because I would be such like, no.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

So fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

It's weird to me because it's like, aren't you raised to be like, hey, the guy should pay for dates? Some guys aren't. But then it's like, it's just weird to me when guys are like, hey, like, you want to you want to split this? I would feel so awkward doing that. Like, hey, you want to split this bill?

SPEAKER_01 14:57

It's like if a man asked me to split a bill, I would be like, My ex-husband. I'm just, I'm just gonna pick this one up, like, and lose my number. Yeah. Like, like there's no splitting. Yeah. No, absolutely not. That's that's gross. That's actually like disgusting to me. Yep, it is. Gets me going.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Did you think now it's like everyone's like equal and like the woman doesn't have to rely on the man? So it's like the woman could pay too. And that's what some people think.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Where I get that, but like for me, I'm like, if I'm gonna take someone out, like a girl, I'm gonna be like, I'm paying for this. I'm not gonna be like, cool, freedom. Yeah, you're paying. I would never let that happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

I think there's also some, and and I and I agree with that to an extent, but I think when it comes to dating, and there are traditional things that that need to apply. And I also think I'm a firm believer in this. If like, even like let's say, you know, you and I are going out to dinner, maybe it's like a mentality of like being European, but if I ask you to go to dinner, I pick up the chuck. If you ask me to go to dinner, you should pick up the chuck. Like it's just like that to me is like standard, like just just respect, right? Like I asked you to dinner, like you shouldn't be paying for it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And yeah, you could go 50-50 and like you know, I go 50-50 with friends all the time, but like out of common courtesy, I think in a friendship, you should do that.

unknown 16:16

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

That's what's hard though, is because I feel like most of the time guys are asking women out, so then they're paying. Right. But I guess sometimes girls ask guys out, then it is kind of like, well, you asked me out. So like and then it would almost be like, would it be fine for the girl to pay if she asked the guy out? Which I'm not used to at all. Because I think it's I know it's fine, but I would rather be the one to ask the girl out, like, hey, I want to go out to dinner with you, like I want to take you to dinner.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

You know why I I do like the idea of a woman paying sometimes? Because it takes the pressure away of now I owe you something. Yeah. Yeah. So now do I have to fuck you after this dinner because you bought a$500 dinner? And if I pay for half of it, or if I buy the whole thing, there's no expectation. And I know like we as women shouldn't feel like that, but if you picked up this huge tab, now I kind of have like this like thing on my shoulder, like I I owe you something. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Like, what do I have to give you in return for this? I get what you're saying, you know. Yeah, and I don't want to feel like that because I shouldn't. But you just you did something so nice for me, you picked up this tab. Like, what am I gonna do in exchange? Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

I think if you're on a date and she wants to pay, like, hey, I got this one, then better. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Or is that a test?

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Oh well, it's like awkward, like the no, I'm I'm doing it. It's like if they're like fighting you, it's like, okay, yeah. Like you know, when you go out with your parents, they're like, I got it, and they get all met, it's like fucking fine.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Jesus. Yeah, go for it. I mean, I think if she really wants to do it, then she'd pull the bathroom trick, right? Go to the bathroom, pay for it. So then it's not like a conversation, like I genuinely want to pay for this. Yeah. So it's not a it's it's a non-issue. But you know, maybe she's playing the game. Maybe she's like, I'll cover it just to see what which I think is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

You know, I mean, that's cool when a girl, not even just to get free food, it's cool when a girl does that. Of course, yeah. I mean, not even like in a cheap way, like, fuck it, I got free food, but it's it's really cool and it's like free food.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

I got a free meal out of this bitch.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Do you feel like powerful when you do that too? I mean, is it like if you do that, is it like, you know, I want to do this just because it's like I like this person? It's not it's not like a flex in a way, like fucking, don't worry about it. It's 400 bucks, I got it.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

You're like, Yeah, and it feels nice doing nice things for people that you like, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

And I and I think that's like a sneaky way to do it. So, guys, if you're watching and if you want to make it cool and make her feel like, oh, you already got it, that's cool. Cause like that's the only thought I feel like we all have when somebody does something sneaky like that. You're like, oh, cool, thanks. Because when the bill comes and you sit there and you're like, Do I do it? Does she do it? Do we hop Z it? Like, if you do that, that's like it's you don't even have to think about it. Yep, you know. So I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

When when is cat and mouse bad? Do you think? When is it toxic?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

When does it not work?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

I think when I don't know, when you're when it's you're not one of the persons not interested. Yeah. Yeah. Or the person's constantly chasing, and then it's kind of unhealthy.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Both sides are extreme. Like a cat is very extreme, like, and then the mouse is like, hey, like it's not like I'm doing this, you try harder. It's like, no. Like there has to be like an equal kind of thing with both both sides of it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Or when one side starts getting like a little like you know, anxious about what's going on, like you're you're making me uncomfortable. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Or when you're just like strictly playing the game of, you know, well, I'm just not gonna respond because I I I want you to miss me. I don't like that stuff either.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Because most people like the chase, but then most people like everyone loves when they see someone wants them. Yeah, like everyone wants that.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah, everybody wants to be wanted, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yeah, I think too when you're unsure of where you stand, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah. But it's it's nice to be chased. It's always nice to be chaste. Nothing's better than the feeling of being wanted in any situation for a job, for a friendship, for you know, whatever. But yeah, being wanted is like a natural human desire, I think. Definitely interesting. Okay, we got some good insight this time.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

So let us know in the comments.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Drop in the comments and uh tell us do you like being the cat or the mouse?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Leave us an emoji. Are you the cat leave us a cat emoji or a mouse emoji so we know which ones you are? That's a good idea. I love it. I'm full of them, guys. Yes, you are. Cheers, guys. Cheers.