SvB: Will "The Last of Us" break the Video Game Curse ?

The fellows discuss "The Last of Us"  a new TV show based on a hit video game.  Next they do a deep dive into the business of making video game adaptations. 

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Show vs. Business is your weekly take on Pop Culture from two very different perspectives. Your hosts Theo and  Mr. Benja provide all the relevant info to get your week started right.

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Transcript

Theo: Mr. Benja, I have been watching this new show Last of us, and man, I have some mold in my bathroom and I'm scared to touch it. , 

Mr. Benja: a little mold reminding you that the last of you is it's upon us. 

Theo: Yes, it is at hand, man. So man, everybody's been talking about this show the Last Of Us. Have you seen it?

Mr. Benja:Yeah,  I've seen it. And it's, it's speaking of mold. It's growing like a mold within the internet community. It's just kind of like, Hey dog, you, you watched Last Of Us, yet I watched it, dad. I should tell somebody else, 

Theo: man. H B O has done it again, man. They got another 9:00 PM hit on their hands. I'm not convinced.

You're not convinced. 

Mr. Benja: We'll talk about it, but I'm not convinced yet. 

Theo: What? Ooh, hot take. I love it. I mean you know, . I watch it with my wife and she's always a good indicator if something's good or not for the masses. Cause , I mean, you know, she's not in the world like I am. Right. I'm, I'm like watching stuff, reading stuff about movies, like superhero movies, things like this all the time.

But so when she likes something and is into it, and I know it's gonna be a hit, so yeah, she's, she's digging it, man. She's digging it. So I think I, I think it's got some longevity. So so, 

Mr. Benja: so go ahead. Okay. Well, hold on. Let's, let's find out. Did she did you, oh. Cause I know what Lasus is. You know, I worked in the video games industry.

My friends have all played it. They're all talking about it, so I get that. But now this is interesting coming from more outsider point of view. How did you, how did she approach this, or how did you bring it to her and how'd you guys get into 

watching 

Theo: it? Yeah, well, you know I told her it's the zombie.

TV show. Well, first she thought it was a movie, right? . So she, she is against watching TV shows, right? Because they're just the the time commitment thing, right? So when she first saw the first episode, she said, oh, there's more . So yes, it's a TV show, so that's number one. But yeah, so, you know, she likes a little darkness and a little, you know, a little scary stuff every now and then.

So I kind of pitched it that way. I said, Hey, this is a high class horror film, right? Let's go check it out. So that kind of got her invested. And then, you know, that first episode, which we'll talk about in a little bit that that kind of hooked her. And so now she's in, 

Mr. Benja: oh, okay. So just that simplest, just like, Hey, watch this.

So you didn't tell her anything about the fact that it came from a video game or that it was about fungus? 

Theo: I think I in the middle of it, right? I forgot I didn't mention anything about that. Cuz you know, I kind of knew about cause I didn't play the video game. Right. I think you may have played a little bit of it, but I remember when it came out, I'm a subscribe to ign, right.

H b i, the website and they talk about all the video games that come out. I never play though, but I think the last video game I played was Call of Duty like five years ago. But but yeah, so it, it was one of those things when I was watching it, but I remember watching cut scenes years ago and I said, wait a minute.

That's from a, that's, I remember watching that. And so spoiler alert, they actually take scenes from the video game and put him actually in TV show. Because what's the guy's name? Neil, is it Druckman? Is that the name of the creator? I'm not sure. Yeah. He actually is co-writer. And director for in some of the episodes.

And so the guy who actually created the video game for the first time is heavily involved in creating this TV show. So like, scene for Scene is almost verbatim. So I showed her, went to YouTube, showed her, you know, some of the scenes in the middle from the pilot that actually showed up on the, on the, on the TV show, which I'm sure fans of the video game freaked out.

They, oh 

Mr. Benja: my God, that was a grow up. Oh, that's the greatest. My pants, my pants, . I can't 

Theo: that's disgusting. But yeah, well, video game, you know, guys don't talk like that now. They're all shapes and forms, but yes. , that's so day types of folks. But yeah, so anyway, so so she digged it. I mean, you know, and Craig Mazen, he's the writer, co-writer as well.

And he wrote Cher Novo, I think we talked about that maybe, or I think I mentioned to you, which was a great H B O series. Mm-hmm. as well. Mm-hmm. about the nuclear , know, what is it called? Problem that happened in Russia in the eighties. So he, and he's also, he shows up on what's the other TV show that like on apple tv about the video game industry show right now.

That show. Yeah. Crap. That show . 

Mr. Benja: You can tell we're both kind of a little bit tired here. I've been doing stuff all day. I 

Theo: know. We'll, we'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll, we'll look it up in a second. But myth Quests, right? Myth Quests, yes. He shows up on there and he writes for it. So he's like prolific guy.

One of those guys is always doing stuff. So he loves video games. He knows how to write stor compelling stories. And so he hooked up with the creator of the last of us, the, the, the, the video game. And then now they create this kind of high class, you know game and starring, you know, the guy who plays the Mandalorian

Oh, yeah. And the, and a young girl who was you know, in a Game of Thrones. Right. You know, the little feisty Lady Mormont. So yeah, Bella Ramsey is her name. And then so I think this is a, a play to kind of, you know, grab genre, but get people invested. So so anyway, I like it. I mean, you know, let's just cut to the chase.

I, I think it's, you know, something we're gonna watch. What are your thoughts about it so far? Not that it's 

Mr. Benja: bad, but I'm just, so you see video games have problems, man. I don't know if you know this, but the, the, the, the translation of a game to a movie, I, I, I don't know if it's really, maybe somebody just has to crack the code, like, like Marvel finally did with the comic movies, right?

Maybe they just need to crack the code with it. Maybe last of us is it, but I like how you call it. I mean, you call it high class. It, it's still. Zombies, but with the kind of different twist on it. So how high class zombie can you get? It's thoughtful. They've laid out some, some character motivations.

Right now I'm, I'm still feeling like these are just, you know, interactive, not people, but objects that are moving across the screen. It's like, well, how do we get to the next level? What we got across this? Well, how do we, you know, how am I going to kill that monster? Well, you gotta find this gun. Oh, okay.

It still feels like it's playing out like a, a a, a game, an interactive, whatever. But as far as like, I don't know, man, I just got a disconnect there. 

Theo: That's interesting. I think the first episode was not like that. I mean, it was more about the. First episode, yes. Yeah. So I think the second episode that has some criticism and it does seem like we gotta go to this then to get to this, to get to this.

So that's like the video game, right? You know, you gotta, all these obstacles you gotta get over, right? And then you know, and the shocking ending at the end, but but yeah, but the first episode, let, maybe we'll discuss that first. So you know, first they kind of start, I mean, I guess we'll get into spoilers too.

So, you know, the first two episodes are out. So again, we will be getting into spoilers. So you haven't seen the last of us, you know, fast forward to the rest of the podcast, but yeah. So let's get into it. . the first episode was very compelling. They actually started off the main character starts with a young, young, young girl and, you know, she's kind of doing, living her life and I think she's getting ready for her dad's birthday, you know, starring Pedro Pascal who plays the Mandalorian.

He's on this show, so you know, it's just before the pandemic. Well, they did something interesting I thought was is they actually took it back into the 1960s, right? Where they had like a talk show and they're trying to, you know, give you a sense of what, you know, what this could mean if, if this actually happened.

Where instead of having a, a pandemic that we, you know, real, a pandemic based on a virus that, you know, unfortunately we went through in 2020. What if it was you? You know you know, fungi, right? That kind of did it. And they said, well, it'll be way worse because number one , they would just, you know, take over, you know, the human body, which we'll see later on.

But also you know, there's no, no, there's no cure. You know, now, you know, I always think there could be some cure, but, but I think they were just saying, Hey, you know, because we just never conceive it because, you know, typically fun guy can't live in a human body cuz of the temperature. But if they evolved to, to understand, you know, to handle heat better, then yes they could, you know, do something like that.

So so that, you know, so the China set the premise, yeah, this is what's gonna happen and then they take it to when it, it starts. So how did that opening scene kind of hit you with the young girl and just going about her day and you slowly start seeing society crumble around her as she's going about 

Mr. Benja: her day?

I actually dug that and I and I dug the, as you said, the, the sixties, seventies, or whatever early. I, I, I love that throwback. Whenever they just lay out one of those and it's like parties, you just like, well, what was that? And the other party you like, okay, I should remember that for later. Just set that tone and then jump right into the action really quick.

The thing that I g I liked about that is that I didn't think they would kind of do that twice. So, you know, I, I, I don't wanna jump ahead too much here, but the fact that they did that little preamble, then you had, you know Pedro and his daughter, I forgot the character's actual name. I think Sarah, yeah.

Yeah. Him and his daughter, them there setting up these, you know, his whole vibe, his whole character. Her situation. I really thought that was a great character set up. So good strong first episode with the character, the world. It, the, the world crumbling reminded me of Snyder's Donna the Dead when he did, mm-hmm.

you know, they were all sitting around the house and everything. I mean, that, that went crazy much quicker, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. the, the slow burn of people still trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I thought it was a lot more realistic than it usually is in these situations where it's like, you know, Hey, they turned off these news outlets.

You can't get any information. And it's like, how come we can't get any information? You go outside and people are yelling, go back inside, what's going on? Someone says the virus. You see a plane crashing in the distance. That whole setup, it just kind of pulls you in because everyone knows what's happening.

The audience knows what's happening because you're watching a zombie movie, right? Audience knows what's happening. , but now it kind of makes sense to roll with it just to understand the, the stakes, the, the people involved. I don't know. It just worked for me. That worked. 

Theo: Yeah, I agree, man. I mean, very compelling.

I mean, you know, that's kind of, you know, if you're on the ground level and you seeing helicopters come and then like, more helicopters, but it starts all small. You're like, oh, there, there was a disaster in Jakarta. Right. You know, on the radio, in the background. Then you hear about, you know people acting suspicious, you know, at the, at the watch shop or we gotta go shut, shut down.

You like, oh, okay. And then you hear police cars coming around. So, you know, it's just this sense of uneasy un uneasiness that they just kind of built up. Then, you know, it's just like, this is crazy. And then of course, you know the next door neighbor, you know, when you just like, you know something, the dog's acting.

and you go over there and now you see the monster's out. And then yeah, so it just shows you the slow crumbling of everything. And then when you know, the scene with the, the, the, the, the, the, the father and, and the uncle and the daughter try to get out and you see from her perspective that's literally cut scene from scene, from the, you know, they even the burning house right in the field, right.

that's literally from the video game. You're like, oh, wow. Did a lot of work there guys, didn't you? But yeah, and then you're right then the crashing plane and the people running around and, and you know, I guess it was Austin, downtown Austin. Mm-hmm. beautifully done. And then just the confusion and just trying to escape and then you know yeah, just masterfully done, man.

Young, young lady. Guess what that the two things I wanna say. This also remind me, another movie I saw, it was kind of crappy movie, but Gerar Butler, he did a movie called Greenland. I don't know if you saw that. I watched it like, One afternoon just on the humble, and it was kind of similar where it was, you know, me or something was coming to their slow buildup and then all of a sudden people you know, like, what's going on?

You know? I said, we gotta shut down this, you know, this is shutting down. And, you know, and then people didn't know what's going on. And then Gerard Butler, cuz he was a necessary a central worker. The, he got a special call on his phone and they, they just said, this is where you're gonna meet. Take three of your family members and meet here by eight o'clock.

And that's it. And he hung up the phone. So he started looking around cause all his neighbors in his house, you know, and he said we're gonna be right back guys. . So he took us, he started walking to the car and everybody's like, where you going? You got that call. You're essential worker. And they like, jump on him.

Mr. Benja: go. 

Theo: It's that slow walk, you know? Then you walk in and try to get outta there before. No, this is, yeah. So that was, you know, you know 

Mr. Benja: what struck me as interesting the. . Okay. So the timing of this is funny. Where zombie movies, where zombie properties are kind of starting to fade and like, you know, it's like everybody's saying, okay, zombies again, here we go.

And the game came out in 2013. Right? So even that's a little dated in terms of how long it's been out. But somehow with the pandemic, and this is, it's totally riding that, that wave of this is where we are, this is where we're coming from. Something about the writing and the structure and the way they're showing things is really calling into account all of this pandemic feeling and bank vibe that we've just got going on.

Mm-hmm. , where it's like, there are times I, I mean, you remember the, the toilet papers, you know? Yeah. Run, run on toilet paper everywhere. Yeah. I'm starting to think like, wow, we were, I saw people just going crazy and fighting over toilet paper and there was like a torn package or toilet paper on the shelf and somebody picked it up and was like, well, it's torn.

Three of 'em are missing in there, but I'm gonna get a discount on it. I'm gonna take it up to the counter anyway. Hmm. That kind of stuff. And you start seeing like, man, what will people do when they can't get something serious? Like, like water or, or fuel or can't get to, you know, can't get BA batteries, you know?

Yeah. I mean, what happens if we run low on batteries and stuff like that? And it's tapping into a lot of that that's happening right now. And it's funny, it's like I don't always lock all the locks on my, my house. You know, I do, I'll do the bottom lock or the. Deadbolts or whatever, but now it's like bottom lock, top the chain, the, the gate, the gate outside.

I go lock that. It's like you've got this little uneasiness that's just pervading throughout all of humanity. And this is touching on that. I don't, I don't know. Did you catch any 

Theo: of that? Yeah. And then if you watched Chobo, did you get a chance to watch Chano at all? Excellent se, excellent series.

Yeah. Very excellent. So it is kind of like that same thing. The radiation is this unknown killer. Right. You know, you feel fine, right. You know, but you're getting hit with, you know millions of ra millions of, I forgot what the metric term term was, but just tons of radiation and you, you end up dying horribly.

Right? So it's kind of like, I'm fine for like, you know, first day I'm smoking a cigarette, everything's fine next day. Oh, my skin's fall off my face, you 

Mr. Benja: know, and. Yeah, someone starts coughing, , everybody looks at that guy. 

Theo: So, I mean, so amazing. He knows how to build this sense of dread, right? I mean, and that's kind of what they did in you know, at Cher Novo and that's what they're doing here.

And you Right, it's excellent. And, and, and yeah, absolutely. Society would break down just that easily. I mean, we pretty much saw it happen with over toilet paper, to your point. I mean, it was just, yeah. So it is, it is kind of. 2020 was a wake up call, I think for like, you know, humanity had a chance to, to prove themselves, yes, we will survive anything alien, apocalypse, you know, whatever, we'll make it happen.

No, we would absolutely got a f And yeah, so I, I have no faith at all anymore, . What would happen? 

Mr. Benja: Will, you'll not stop me from wiping my ass. , 

Theo: literally. So anyway, so I think yeah, so I thought that was excellent. And that was in the, that was, I think that was in the first, what, 20 minutes of the show.

We had this whole sequence. I mean, you know, spoiler alert the young lady that they focused on so heavily, his daughter fortunately, dies because, you know, they were trying to clean house and the, the soldier, the soldier was trying to stop the, the dad and his daughter. And you know, unfortunately she got killed in the process, which is very sad.

It was great, great performance by the young actress. And guess who that. You know, there's a big term going around. Number one NPO Baby. Have you heard that 

Mr. Benja: term? No. 

Theo: It's about all these actors now who are related to other actors. Oh, okay. Or other famous people. So she is a NPO baby. Well, I don't know if this is derogatory term yet.

Guess who her mom is. Andy Newton? Yes. Did you already know that or you just looked it up? ? 

Mr. Benja: No, I've got a I, I got a picture of Andy right here at oh. . Don't ask me why. 

Theo: Right next to 

Mr. Benja: mother 

Theo: Teresa. 

Mr. Benja: Yes, I know. Right next to you know shepherd Ferry, Jeff Bezos and Pharrell Williams on there too.

Okay. I get different ideas from people. I take a picture of 'em, print it out and put it on the whiteboard until the. They're out of my mind. But Tandy's up there right now. Yeah, 

Theo: because now when you look, looks on YouTube looks. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, I kept looking. I said, why does she look familiar?

Why does she look familiar? And boom, dandy Newton's daughter. So Westworld has come to the last of us, . Oh. 

Mr. Benja: Oh. Nico baby. Hey. I wanted like, Hey, taking my show off the air. You better do something to give me . You better pay back What you gonna do? Hey, all right. Your daughter's kind of cute. Let's get her on.

Theo: Yeah. So you know Andy News, I mean, great actually. I mean, she's been around forever. I mean, she's done everything She did. Tyler Perry movies, she's done. Eddie Murphy movies. Tyler Westworld. She was in what's that movie? She, one of her first movies. She was actually in a movie with what's her name, Nicole.

So, yeah, like when she was like 18. So she's been around for a minute. Definitely one of those classy beauties, but also just a very good actress, so I don't think she gets to do enough. So, but good for her. So anyway, so her daughter, you know, played that role, unfortunately passed away in the, in the show, so they kind of fast forward.

That was a big jump. I didn't know they were gonna go like, what was it, like 20 years? Something, something ridiculous, . It's like, it just, that's a big jump. . Yeah. Well, did 

Mr. Benja: you, did you know, did you know the daughter was gonna die? I 

Theo: mean, I mean, I suspected as such because she wasn't in the posters, right?

Yeah. Well, how, how 

Mr. Benja: did hit your, okay. How'd that vibe hit your wife? Didn't I, she, yeah, 

Theo: she was kind of shocked. Yeah. She was kind of shocked. Yeah. Okay. 

Mr. Benja: Because people ask me, you know, like, are, were you surprised? And a lot of times I actually am, because when I watch these things I don't know if you've ever seen, like art critics, you know, they'll go into a, they'll go look at a painting, they'll sit down, they'll cover their eyes, they'll breathe in hard.

you know, and wipe their face and they'll look at the painting. It's almost as if they're trying to see it for the first time. They're trying to just take it in. It's a whole exercise of clearing your mind. Right. I do that whenever I watch something that actually matters to me. So when I watch this, I'm like, I have never seen a zombie movie in my life.

I don't know what's going on. Oh, wow. You know, I don't know what platform I'm watching it on. I tried to just clear my mind of all of that and let the thing hit me, and yeah. That actually hit me when I, when she died, I was like, oh, oh, oh. I guess that makes sense, but Oh, oh, oh, wait, a man. Yeah, we already had like a preamble, so this is a preamble to something else.

Yeah, so the double preamble was kind of cool. I was like, okay. Yeah. Two setups to the actual story. 

Theo: Yeah. The set. Well, I think they wanted to set that first part up to kind of connect this world to our world in some way, right? Mm-hmm. and then, and then they kind of wanted, say, set this world with rules and stuff.

And also it's based, you know, literally. . I mean, that's what happens. You walk around as the Sarah, I think, character for the first part of the, the, the game. And you control her before you actually control. You know, Joel, who, you know, the, the main character. One of the main characters. So, so anyway, so they jump ahead.

The postal apocalyptic Boston, did it seem realistic to you of all that overgrowth and greenery and all that kind of crap going on and buildings tipping out, tipping over? Did that seem like realistic? 

Mr. Benja: I actually thought it would be more green. More trees and stuff. 20 years. I mean, man, it rained, it rained for like five days out here in la.

People lost their minds. Dude. I pulled out literally a, a clump about the size of half a shoebox of greenery that just showed up in my rain gutter after the. Wow. I'm like, what the heck is this? And yeah, I almost fell off the ladder trying to pull it out because dirt flew in my face and everything.

I'm like, how did, how, how does this even happen? But yeah, I, I figured it would be more green. But I think that may have seemed a little too unrealistic for people if it just all of a sudden turned into like Bush Gardens . 

Theo: Yeah. So, you know, and then also I we kind of f fast forward just production design, but I think that's important to kind of how you tell a story.

And I think the, the, the, the, the video game is like that, right? It's just very lush and green. So unlike other, you know, zombie movies, right? I think a lot of the zombie movies are what they're, it is manmade, right? Some virus got out of the lab at the cdc mm-hmm. or you know, some monkey, you know, or something happened that just, you know, is going to, this is the first time, this is basically, Earth is attacking the human beings.

Right? It's like, not only is the, this a fungus, you know, so it's not, it's, it's already exist in the, in the planet. So it's just taken over now. And then also the earth is taken back, you know, where the greenery is going everywhere. So it's kind of like a more of a, you know ecological kind of, you know, horror film.

Right. So this is like the earth is getting back at us Yeah. For all the harm we did to it. So anyway. Did that, did that seem plausible to you, or was that kind of corny? No, it's different. I mean, you know, and then we'll get into like the, the functioning, which is a little bit, you know, how they spread the disease, how to communicate, which is different from the, the video game.

Right? But I think I kind of like it a little different take on it. Right. How are you about, you know, they showed the, the, the little things coming out, people's mouths and just like, you know, how they look and stuff. Some people are freaked out about that. It doesn't bother me. I mean, you know, I can look at that stuff.

It looks fake to me. So , I'm not, I'm not like really freaked out about that. Are you one of those that gets like, freaked out and then we'll talk about the, the one that happens in the second episode? I think a lot of people were freaked out about that. But I don't know. It doesn't, doesn't do anything to me.

Mr. Benja: So, dude, I am, and this is where I have to be careful because I've become so desensitized to a lot of stuff like this. It's like I found, you know, that I just, I'll just be talking about something and somebody will like, you know, close up their little takeout tray. I was like, I've lost my appetite. I don't believe you just said that.

And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. So that's type of stuff tends not to bother me. I thought it was kind of cool actually. I was like, huh, okay, well wouldn't it be like this? And. know how come their, their teeth haven't started turning into wood or whatever. I don't know. You 

Theo: know, just, yeah, good point. Yeah.

And I think there's like different levels of these zombies, right? I mean, you know, the more affected you are, right? Yeah. That the worse it gets. And, you know, we'll talk about some of the other kind of, you know, zombies that come up. But what, what, what made you 

Mr. Benja: think of that as the. Somebody was talking about how gross it was, or 

Theo: I, I can see that.

Yeah. I mean, especially in the second episode, there's an interesting part to very end, you know, when let's go ahead. The, the kiss yeah. Yeah. So the second part is, is the kiss, right? There's a character that unfortunately then makes it, and you know, this guy, the zombie infected, that's what they call, and the show, the infected, not the walkers, not zombies, but the infected starts walking toward the, one of the characters that, and she's already been affected and, you know, she's trying to kill them.

But I guess, you know, she's struggling between her humanity and being turned completely into the, the li living organism that is the fungus. And they, they, they connect and then he opens his mouth, the tends come out and they start kissing. And so people kind of got freaked out over that. But It was fine.

Yeah, . But, but the thing was, but the thing is like, it's like, it is like drawn to the human beings as the wholesome wants to take over. Yeah. And it just posed that at the end of the second episode with what happened at the beginning of the episode where they had another flashback when one of the characters, you know, re in got the Tinels and the Tinels was trying to give her a little kiss, remember?

Reached out to her. So Doctor, I thought that was kinda interesting. Yeah. The doctor at the very beginning. 

Mr. Benja: See, see, yeah. I, I really liked that scene. Like the whole, you know, she's, she was eating her food, right? Yeah. She was in the, in a restaurant, you know, consuming and, and, and they're like, Hey, I, you know, sorry to stop you from your meal.

And she's like, well, I was almost finished. And then they, and they took her into, you know, the, her their facility and yeah, back in Jakarta, Indonesia, right? Indonesia, somewhere out. I don't know if that was Jakarta, but Indonesia somewhere. and she was like, Hey dog, what, what we gotta do? Gotta bomb this bitch.

bomb it all, . I 

Theo: mean that's, that's storytelling one on one man. Just very economical. Right. You know, to give you the stakes. I mean, you know, they, I mean, I, you, I should study these scenes, man. Cuz he is like, really give me a lot of exposition in a very entertaining way. Right. To your point, she's supposed to be the foremost expert in, you know, fun guy, right.

They bring her and she's like, this is another day, whatever. And then, you know, they said, check this out. She's been bit, you know, the, the, the military. So we're, we're skipping ahead guys. Said second episode, but. , it's a prologue. So we're gonna compare prologues. I think the first episode prologues, the two prologues were good.

But I agree. I think the second one, there was something a little bit, something spicier about it. It was kind of interesting where, you know, they had an expert in Jakarta where we, or Indonesia, where we think the, where they said it started, and you have her, she's perceived as this expert and the military's just doing what they do.

Hey, come. tell us what's going on. They're like, no big deal. Right. Very similar to She Noble. Right. You know the ex Yeah. You know, the expert first the, the military guy's like, oh, whatever. It's just, you know, just some fire, we're just gonna turn it out, whatever. And then ill never forget that scene when the the expert played by Jared Harris looks at the, the thing he said, what, what?

He's like freaking out. They was like, whatcha you talking about? He said It was only like 13, you know, 13, you know, gigawatt, whatever they, they what they called, I can't remember what the, the term was, but it was only this. He said that's because the meters, they had only measured up to 13

so it was probably like millions of radiation. They were getting not what you think , he said. And so, and it was like, that's kinda like they, he did the same thing here where they had the expert come in. She kind of, you know, investigates his bite, looks at the. . And then she pulls the Tinels out of the, the victim's the, the, the deceased mouth and then sees the Tinels reaching out.

It's still alive. Yeah. And then she, she drops it freaks out, tries to get out. Now this is the expert. Yeah. Freaking out. Yeah. So, you know, she's scared that this is not normal. And then they set it up where she's sitting there, you know, having her tea and talking to them, and the whole time she's talking to them.

I don't know if you noticed she's, her, her, her hand is shaking while she's drinking the tea. Yeah. And they're like, well, you know what you gotta do? There's no big deal. You know what guess she said? I mean, you know, we gonna say, well look. Yeah. 

Mr. Benja: something else. Something else. Just hit me. The the way a lot of cultures use tea after a meal, they'll cleanse the pallet with the tea.

They try, they cleanse the pallet and they calm themselves. And she's like talking about bombs. cleansing the city to everybody. You gotta calm the situation down. It just hit on so many levels. And I just realized the whole cleansing the pallet tea thing right there. Yeah. 

Theo: And she is like, you know, I mean when she's saying, look, you just gotta bomb everything and she knows that's, you know, this is it.

If we don't get rid of it immediately it'll affect every human being cuz that's just what the organism does. And so yeah, so I think that Prolo was very powerful to see that kind of scene and how it's kind of started everything. And of course they used that to kind of reference back to, you know, these cities that were bombed out.

But I gotta complain about that. The nit a nitpick on that one, but we'll get into that later. 

Mr. Benja: Oh, hold on. They they showed, they showed the micro the microscope scene first because 

Theo: Sure did. Yeah. What would, what did it look like? I can't remember 

Mr. Benja: what they, they were like, they were like, Hey, take a look at this.

And she's like, she's like, why, why is this, why is this living thing being processed like this? Yeah. She's like, that's for plants. And they're like that is from a plant and that's why we did it like this. She's like, well, how is it a plant if it's like this? So they showed that stage of confusion, like where people, so I think what they're doing there, and it's just referencing like a little microcosm of humanity.

Like they're still kind of confused about things and like, well, hey, why is it like this? And it's messing with the audience too. It's like, well, why is the, why is this a story even like this? Why are these it, it's, it was paralleling. It's doing a lot of parallels. Mm-hmm. And I was, it's coming back from that whole sixties thing where it had certain parallels.

It's like, well, we can show you what's happening in another way and relate this to how the audience is perceiving this, how society's perceiving this. You know? So it's like you're supposed to have one type of reaction. Right. Scientifically and mentally, like looking at it and it's like, Hey, well wait a minute.

Why did you process it with this chemical? That's only for plant, that's only for plants, or that's only for living characters or what creatures or whatever. And you got a plant in here or something. Why? Why are you doing it like that? Well, no, no, it is a plant. It's not a living that, that's why we're calling you because this is like really weird.

Theo: So, oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Cause the state of confusion and unknown is starting early on to kind of mimic what we're kind of experiencing too. And so, especially she's an expert, right? And so okay. Interesting. Yeah. Storyteller, man, guy's. Good man. So anyway, go back to the first episode. So, like I said, overall I thought the first episode was compelling.

I mean, you know, we're not, we're gonna get into all the de the beats of it, but you know, they introduced the the character, the main character of Ellie. And, you know, come to find out, you know, she's Got bit by these things, but she didn't turn infected. Mm-hmm. . So she first time in a long time is, is, is, is hope for this hopeless society for over 30 years.

And we see Joel, you know, after what happened to his daughter, become a bitter man. Matter of fact, they even did a even worse scene where a kid comes outta the jungle. They, they kind of lied to the kid and just said, Hey, you know, everything's gonna be okay. But they noticed he's got a small bite and they end up.

killing him and dumping him into the fire. So they don't, he doesn't get everybody infected and so it just shows you just what a dark world this is after 20, 30 years, right. Of just, yeah. You know, humanity giving up and so for the first time they have hope with this young girl. Yeah. So did you like to get it, before we get into the, the details, but did you like this whole kind of subplot?

I mean, it's kind of important to kind of build this world building they're doing where this is this, this, this fedra group, and then there's these fireflies that finally gets toed and then you got these smugglers and they're economics of what they're doing. I mean, you know, they try to do a lot in that first episode.

Explain all this. Yeah. Did that, did that make sense? I mean, you know, it kind makes sense, but does it, I don't think my wife understood any of that, but did it make sense you think, you know, from that standpoint, no. 

Mr. Benja: For me for me to connect with these types of things, you need a very. Visual and visceral, like a, a tangible kind of representation.

Like I know it, I know it sounds corny, but if these people have cornered the market on gasoline, gasoline or batteries or whatever, it's like you've gotta see them all wearing like yellow jackets or Good point. You know, it, it's kind of corny and nobody would do that. But as far as a visual medium is concerned, or even a an, you know, something you're listening to or whatever, there just has to be that tangible.

Yes, these are the bad guys. And people get on me for, for looking for that. Like when I look for a villain, I'm looking for the twirly, mustache kind of guy. I know it's corny, but once you get past it, it's, it tells a story very quickly. And then you can do things like, well, wait a minute. , how is this guy a good guy when he has the evil twirling mustache and starts to get you to think mm-hmm.

without having to sit down and analyze. You just want these 

Theo: flags be exort. Yeah, good point. Yeah. So you just want them to be drawn to the story so immersed, you don't even think about like, wait a minute, that'll make sense. Like, be honest with you. It threw me out. I, I had no clue. I guess Joel's partner Tess, I didn't understand why she was getting beat up and then I didn't understand, you know, it was kind of confusing there, it was just kind of lost me, right?

It was like then, then she escaped from them, but then she had to go find him again and had something to do with Joel's brother. I mean, you know, it was, it was not very clear. I mean, you know, to kind of establish all this, so yeah, who 

Mr. Benja: do they think they are and.

All this ultra deep storytelling 

Theo: video game. Yeah. It, it was too much. I mean, you know, they could've cut some of that out, but, you know, I get what they were trying to do with it, but I don't know. It just didn't work. And, and so, true story. You know, obviously this film, this, this game came out a long time ago.

They were actually voice actors who did this? Do you know the, I mean, about looking up? Well, you probably wouldn't know. I'll just give it there. There's one actor, voice actor who's playing the same role that she played in the video game. Danny Newton

No. Okay, sorry. Yeah. The actress's name is Merle Dandridge and she plays Marlene. And she was the actual voice actress that, that, that was in the original played the leader of the fireflies. 

Mr. Benja: Okay. I heard, I heard about a voice actor. 

Theo: Okay. Yeah, that's the only one. Everyone else has different characters.

Now the, the actress who actually played l is in the mo is in the TV show, but she plays the mother of L now cuz she just kind of aged out the role. But guess I, but I think they chose Bella Ramsey from Game of Thrones because she looks just like this actress. Cause my wife was like that. She looks very familiar, not from Game of Thrones, but the, the actress that played you know, the original L Voice actress was from fam family what's it called?

Dang. I just had a, the, the Kirk Lin TV show, and she played Chrissy and she was the family daughter from okay. Man. What was the name of that show? Now I'm drawing the blank. It's not, it was so many of those shows back in the day. . Yeah. Yeah, there were. But she, it was the one that when Kirk Cameron and then Leonard DiCaprio showed up for a little bit.

So yeah. So she played the daughter they introduced at the end, and it was growing Pains. That was the name of the show. Right? Right. So anyway, so, so I just said, I thought that was interesting. So they're, they're still trying to prep her, and they said they're the guy who's play, who's who played Joel, I think Jeffrey Pierce, he's gonna come up again.

So they're, they're trying to use some of the same actors Right. That played the roles. So that's gonna be interesting as we get into this, if a lot of these TV shows or more movies come and TV shows come from games, , you know, when we see a lot of these actors recreate their original voice acting role into live action.

I mean, yeah. What are your thoughts 

Mr. Benja: there? I don't care. , I mean, it's, it's just, that's, that's just something that's so far from me. And you know, I, I, I, I think it's cool, but it's just not something that's on my radar. And Andy from East West Players and, you know, the Asian American theater groups, he is very big on theater, theatrics, character, you know, the actor, the person behind it, the emotion behind it all.

And we were talking and we were trying to figure out where our differences lied. Mm-hmm. and I realized that I'm in, I'm coming from video games and I'm generally thinking, , okay, here's a character, he's got to do this. There's a task, an obstacle he needs, you know, the three keys, a, B, and C key to get through the door to unlock, to go to the next level.

Yeah. And from there we started all over again. And I was saying, yeah, how come this movie didn't have, you know, they didn't have a key or whatever to get to the next level or talk to the next person. And he was like, well, no, you have to understand the characters, this and that. And we kind of came to this realization that, oh, you're coming from a, an artistic medium that's about literally a character behind a character, a person, a human on the stage that's reflecting an emotion onto an audience that's right there.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And you know, the whole set, the whole costuming, the story that's kind of dressing to this whole relation to people. me. On the other hand, I'm coming from, you know, the audience is some dude on the couch interacting, and he's actually trying to go through the, you know, strip away all the costuming, strip away all the characterization.

It's just about connecting point A to point B. McGuffin. Mm-hmm. , he unlocks this. So that's interesting. I, I think in a really good story, both of them work very well, and you can have a common ground, but as far as like caring about it, I, and this is why I, I think that a lot of video games have problems transferring into a live action movie, TV show, or whatever type of format, because there's, their whole structure is based on this linear, you know, protagonist, get some keys, unlock this, move to that.

You know, I, I say keys generically, like, you know, you know, well, the only way we're going to get such and such to like me is if I do this. So, okay. That's a key. I gotta unlock that to get to the next part of the story. Whatever. No. 

Theo: Yeah. Yeah. And you can see the, that's why they have a, you got the, the, the guy who actually wrote the video game and a actual Hollywood TV show, produ writer, right?

Mm-hmm. coming together. And you can kind of see the, it is almost like, you know, the confusion, right? Because, you know, you can see the spackle, the Hollywood guys putting on there, right? Building character, right? Yeah. You know, the, the, the, the intros at the beginning, right? You know, just to give you a little bit taste of stuff.

Then you can see the the writing of the, the, the, the, the video game creator, you know, you're right. It's very, you know, like the second episode's really like that right now we got l we gotta get her to these, meet these other guys. These other guys are dead. So now we gotta go to this building Oh, to get this other key.

Then we find out the gas folks, you know, it is like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, . And so you like, oh, okay. The character development stuff is, you know, almost out the window a little bit. 

Mr. Benja: Yeah. And I, I. that can work if your, if your characters are set up and that's, that's part of the ride, like I think that worked really well for Squid Game.

You know, where it's like you've got this character and it's like, how is he gonna get to the next level? He's got to get, become friends with this person. But it, it all worked there. This I think is, 

Theo: but, but, but you know why, I know why that, why it worked. Cuz there was an ultimate goal. Yes. You understood.

His goal was to get that whatever, 50,000,001 or, you know, money up in the sky. Right. And so yes, there were levels to it, but we know there's still no, you know, we're just going for point a, point B. , you know, obviously she has something in her, but you know, they, they haven't, right. Just like a video game.

They don't tell you the whole story right away. You know, at the end your goal is to, you know, maybe Super Mario Brothers, right? You gotta get the princess. Yeah, say the princess in the very beginning, but . But they don't really tell you like, oh, you know, you, you just gotta get her there. But then you get her there and then, you know, some complications, enue.

So, you know, I think that may be it. I'm just brainstorming that. No, no, that, that 

Mr. Benja: is a good point where with a lot of games you're pretty much at the beginning told, here's the end goal. Go figure it out. How you get there and you know, in the back of your head, well they're gonna get there. Somehow.

Somebody, whether did they die, pass on the dream to somebody else, they're gonna get to the end goal. Mm-hmm. , so, huh. No, that's interesting. Yeah, I think HBO though was very instrumental. I think they were very, very good choice to actually make this happen. Because if. This would've been Netflix flavored or Paramount plus flavored.

This could have been flushed out. Disney plus flavored could have been flushed down the toilet flavor, a 

Theo: little flavor. Disney Plus I don't know. Netflix made, you know, they've been dropping hits, man hits, hits after hits Wednesday. They just had what was the other one they had? Wait on Daher. Wait, cri 

Mr. Benja: critically acclaimed hits, or just people watching it hits.

Come 

Theo: on. Okay. Fair point. Fair. But people are watching, you know, H B O stuff too, isn't, yeah. I mean, are is it good? I, I mean, you know what, yes. All the messes happening. You know, we didn't, we, we are not gonna talk about in this pod, but, you know, you're your beloved. Dune Patrol is gone no more. So we'll talk about that maybe at end of the time.

Wait, you're gone? Yeah, they got canceled . 

Mr. Benja: Oh, okay. I still haven't finished watching them. Im, 

Theo: I'm like, well, Hey Zla. Who knows man, that might be off the show . Anyway, so yes. Wait, hold 

Mr. Benja: on. Quick, quick interjection here cause they've been cutting shows. Yes, I was about to cancel my H v O max and I was like, you know what, I need to plow through as many of these properties as I can because when I log back on, it might not be there.

Exactly. So I, I went to cancel actually I was gonna go cancel for like a month and then come back and just, you know, like watch five episodes of Last of us all at once. But what happened was I canceled and they were like, Hey Doc, hey dog, calm down, don't cancel just yet. And I was like, why not? Like, well you're up here for $15, we'll get you in for $7 and 50 cents for the next three months if you just hang on.

And they got me for one of those. I didn't expect you. So 

Theo: I was like the down, the down sale. I love it. , the down 

Mr. Benja: Russell Brunson would be proud. , HBO 

Theo: pulling the 

Mr. Benja: down you's funny. . It's funny cuz I think that's a good offer. I'm like, I go through three steps. I'm like, Hey, that's a good offer. And then I'm kind of mad like, man, they've been overcharging me all this time.

I know, I know. And now they're gonna give you for, for for half price. You kidding me? And then I get happy again. Like, oh, well, you know, 

Theo: Hey guys, finish watching this. Hey man. Thanks man. I might take that, take that off. So I, I might get that too. Thank you, . 

Mr. Benja: Yeah, I, I can buy another, I can buy another steak, dinner, steak, 

Theo: but you know it, so yeah.

So we're, we're kind of going the rat hole here, but yeah, I think H B O man they're really, they're living and dying by this nine o'clock hour. I mean, the quality is shown there. And it sounds, it sounds like they have to have a hit show. Every Sunday night for the foresee future, or, you know, people gonna cancel in droves because to your point, if I, it, it is, it bec the, the service become less valuable when it, you know, at least to me, who likes more high end show.

Now, if you like, you know, chip and Jo Joanna, you know, fine. That's the sh you know, Dr. Pit Popper looks like those ain't going nowhere. Right. But you know, in quality type show, you know, they're looking like they're taking it off. So it's becoming less valuable for me if they do not have a hit. I don't know.

You know, I, I, I, I may not even have need it because if it's not a hit, there's no hit on Sunday night, what's the point of watching it? So, so we'll see what happens with H B O. But we digress and say all that just to say that. Go ahead. No, we digress. I finished the thought. Yeah. We're just going to, you know, just saying, Hey, that's just a show that we're all kind of watching and investing in for the foreseeable future.

And to your point, H B O. You know, it was creating quality content and they decided to invest in this. But I still think that Netflix probably could have done something with this. But you're right, it may not have been as the quality, it may have been a lot of views, but the quality may not have been good.

Mr. Benja: Yeah, and you know, that's stuff I don't, I don't mind not seeing. I'm like, oh man, I can't watch next to Dr. Pimple Popper. I wanna know what happened with that guy had the thing on his shoulder. Oh well and you don't care. It's just like, oh, well yeah, that's 

Theo: that Lean back TV baby 

Mr. Benja: that lean back . So I just, I just popped over to Twitter to see like what was going on with last of us.

I'm like, okay. A, anytime you want to find out what's happening with Popular Society or a lot of people at any moment, just go to Twitter and type in whatever topic. So I typed in Last of us, the first thing I get, boom, the last of us Season two is coming. Yeah. So that's, I don't, I don't know how hot that news is.

But it was news to me. So they're already pumping it like by H B O, like, Hey, you know, we're not just gonna leave you hanging , you might as well watch now because we're gonna keep going. It's 

Theo: like, okay. Yeah. But you know, to your point, I mean, you know, people can churn out and wait till it comes back, so, you know, yeah.

I don't think that's gonna keep people around. But but yeah, I think the, the, the show has value when this, it's in a library, but it looks like, you know, they don't care about that anymore. They need money now. So what they're gonna do is take it off their, their servers and just repackage it to someone else and sell it to them as a whole series so they can get more money for it.

And so, so anyway, we'll see what happens in the future. But so I ultimately, you know, I think we both are endorsing last of us. I mean, first episode was great, storytelling was great. Kind of getting us excited about it. second episode. You know, I think it was more functional, you know, to kind of see how the world work.

Before we end all this, I mean, what do you think about the the storyline that, that the, the world building around that infected, right? Like how the different levels to them, how they communicate? I mean, is that, you know, I mean from a storytelling standpoint and then from a video game change up.

What are your thoughts on that? 

Mr. Benja: I'm not so concerned about how well it matches to the source material, the video games at all. That's not my, I don't care. I mean, once again, it's a, it's a story I'm watching. If they change something fine, I think they got a good idea from Resident Evil where it's just like, look dude, what you gotta do just, you know, just, just make, take the properties, make something good for screen and make it work.

Yeah. But what I think that's what I think's really good is how, is when a show can. Make these kind of, you know, lock and key mechanisms or the progression of the story where they can not just make it logical because you know, what they did was gave you logical exposition. Like, oh yeah, it's a plan. So it just kind of does like this and they talk to each other.

But then how did that relate to, how did they figure that out? Was that just something told to us, or did it make a difference to the story? A lot of that stuff in episode two was just told to us like, oh yeah, it's like this. Oh yeah, that happens. Oh yeah, this, but it's not like, you know, somebody ran off into the forest and they were like, dude, we gotta go get her.

I don't think she knows that. They talk through each other, through the plants, you know? It's like, what do you mean she doesn't know that? How does she not know that? Well, she came from such and such, you know, it. , yeah. Ways that, that whoever their characters are, what they know, where they came from informs the logic of the story.

Theo: Mm. Okay. That's good. They, yeah. I mean, but you know, to be fair, Joel and Tess are smugglers and they've been smugglers for years, decades, right. So I'm sure they've got it good sense of this from years of just traveling. So that's probably why there was a lot of exposition cuz they're characters, right.

You say informed the characters. They just, you know, even when they went into and met the most fearsome, infected, the clickers Right. They already knew, said, is he still here? So they they already knew that, you know what, you know, the different levels of these infected Right. And, and what it could Yeah. How it could look and how to deal with them too.

Yeah. 

Mr. Benja: But, but what I'm saying is that, that, how, how much did that change anything? Like like I'm saying in, in a story to me, whenever you're gonna do something like that you know, maybe they all , you know, all put on extra socks so they wouldn't, you know, make as much noise on the floor. That's not scientific.

I know physics don't work like that, but, you know, and one girl's like, no, I didn't wanna wear my socks because you can't tell me what to do. And it's like, oh God, you didn't wear socks. Now they're gonna hear us. Well, well hold on. 

Theo: They did, it did inform the story. Remember they were gonna do that first, but they couldn't because they were going a different path, remember?

And they, but they saw, they looked down, it was all those infected on the path they wanted to go down. So they had to go back cuz they were saying, Hey, we can go through the museum. And they said, no, let's not do that. And cuz they knew. So it kind of informed a different path for them. 

Mr. Benja: Yeah, but I mean, what did that mean though?

To, to me it just didn't, it didn't mean anything. It's like, oh, okay. Yeah, another path. It's not like anybody was in conflict, like, okay, you know, well, 

Theo: you know, then, so they set that up so they can show you how many infected were ready to go. to, to, to, to attack them too. So, you know, I can see the, the logic now, now I'm talking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they had to show you so they couldn't go to the museum cuz they knew that that was, you know, some clickers there, there was way worse, you know, situation. So they said there goes other path, but they saw on that path was all these, you know, those folks and then we knew how they talked, so, you know, yeah.

They were gonna probably come, you know, so it was all, it was all set up for everything 

Mr. Benja: Right at the end. Yeah, sure. And I, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's just that it's, it's just set up. Yeah. There was nothing Yeah. 

Theo: It didn't inform character. Yeah. To your point. It was like, did we learn, well, we kind of learned a little bit about Tess, you know, when she mm-hmm.

you know, how she became more of a believer at the end and when she got, you know, found out she was bit and. . She said, you gotta, Joe, you gotta be a believer. You gotta go and save, you know, for L Yeah. But yeah, I mean, and then l is really more the what do they call it? The Audi audience Surrogate, right?

She's just, yeah, she's learning about this as we learn about it. So, yeah. I, yeah, to your point, I think it's just the, the second episode just did what it had to do. It had to get from point A to point B to get the two characters alone and have a purpose of what they're gonna do going forward, which is try to save the world now.

Mr. Benja: Yeah. So we've got nine episodes and so that means seven episodes to go to me, at least by the third episode. You know at least by the third episode, you need to have a strongly established, you know, what to look forward to. What are we questioning? Mm-hmm. , how could this possibly go wrong? What could go right?

Whose bets are we gonna place on? Who's gonna die or whatever, . But that, but that seems kind of weird to do because. . They're only really two people. 

Theo: So Yeah. And it does seem like they introduce a character like one episode and that that character probably, you know, gonna die in that same episode. 

Mr. Benja: Right.

And, and that's how you instruct, that's how you instructor a video game. Like, you know, like, yeah, sure. We only have two characters. It's not like, let's bring it back. It's not like a video game like excom ah, where you've got, you know, a whole 16 people or whatever and you're like, okay, only two of these dudes are coming back and you're starting to get invested.

you're starting with two.

Theo: I just always go back to the grenade 

Mr. Benja: in the ship.

dude. , I could write so many stories off, off the adventures I had in Excom Dog, , 

Theo: the grenade and the ship that just killed everybody. But anyway, , wait, go play com. We dunno what we're talking about. We got a live 

Mr. Benja: grenade inside the ship. , we're trying to leave and get to safety. What's he doing with the live grenade?

Don't worry, he won't drop it. , 

Theo: man, we spent so many hours on that game, man. I missed that game. Golly. I'm scared to get back into it until I got more cycles. Okay. But anyway, so we're wrapping up here, right? Yeah. Okay. So yeah, overall, so what, what I do wanna say one last thing so I'm invested, we're gonna check it out, but I agree there is a, there's a danger here that, you know, we're just gonna get story a week kind of thing and then, you know, you're gonna be invested in this character, other tertiary character.

Right? That's not the main two that's probably gonna die Right. in the episode. So, so it's gonna be interesting to see kind of what the. what the the rhythms of the show are. But you mentioned you had some concerns that yes, I said it was a hit. You know, people are watching it, but what is your concerns about it sustaining that hit status?

Mr. Benja: No one's been able to crack that video game code and, you know, can, can, can they do it? What is this leading up to? How does it rap? If you just look at the history of video game movies, no one's kind of, okay. Arcane did a good job. That was the last one that was on Netflix. Mm-hmm. , that's actually solid, but, Oh, really?

Okay. It didn't blow the doors off of anybody in large numbers. Like it didn't become a cultural phenomenon. Yeah. And, you know, rightly so. It's, it's good, but it's not like mind blowing. I grab people by the collar and say, you must watch this now. So, of course it's not gonna break down doors, but , you know, Minecraft, resident Evil, super Mario Brothers, real life.

Now we're coming to the Super Mario Brothers animated, and even if it is good, it's probably not gonna blow the doors off of anything. The Wizard remember that from back in the day. Oh, I don't know if you should count that, a video game movie or one of those movies with video game, you know 

Theo: backdrop Yeah.

Roots or something like that. Yeah. Well, you know, I would, I would say this, I, I looked at some numbers around the business side and the top three movies video games, Sonic the Hedge, har Uncharted, and I guess Pokemon detective Pikachu, they probably, they all happened the last three years and they were the top, you know, grossing video game, adaptions of all time.

So that's kind of amazing to me how you know, they did so well. Isn't that crazy? I mean, it's like, you know, so. They all made over 148 million, which is decent. Mm-hmm. . But it is like, you know, I think people are becoming more accepting of video game movies than they did back in the day. Cuz I mean, you know, the wizard let's see.

Is this titles? This, is, this can't be, I'll look at this, this, that's, 

Mr. Benja: I don't, yeah. I looked up a number and something said 14.3 million. Yeah. Does that, is that right? Because 

Theo: that's, that don't seem right. So yeah, I'll look into this, but but yeah, I think the top movies like Sinai Hedgehog, they this so well you know, it is, it, it, they made two.

Right. And then a matter of fact, I watched it pre pandemic and post pandemic with my kids and this first one and the second one and it looks like gonna do a, a third one. So so yeah, I think, you know, they're getting better. So I just say that yeah, it did 306 million in the US alone, so, . I think it's doing pretty, it did pretty well, you know no billion dollar video game adaptions yet, but you know, it looks like more people are coming, be accepting, at least in the movie world.

Now, to your point, tv, that's a whole nother story, but I think in a movie world it would come a long way from Doom. Remember Doom with the Rock, rock

Mr. Benja: Mortal Combat was solid. You know, we talked about this in previous pods before, but yeah, I think that wizard number for 14 million is actually for the total gross. Hey, I found it on three different sites. What? 

Theo: Wow, this is like a cultural phenomenon when we were growing up, cause the guy had the glove, remember the glove that was.

That was our, our, our golden briefcase from Pope Fiction. Right. , you're like, oh God. He had the glove . That piece of crap you ever played with. Oh man. It was not good. 

Mr. Benja: the power glove. 

Theo: Yeah. Oh man. So, yeah. Yeah, so I think, you know, there's some, you these, I think people becoming more accepting like uncharted, I think it did like 400 million.

I mean now that helped because Tom Holland was just in the biggest movie of that year this, that 2022, which was or 2021, which was Spider-Man. No way out. Maybe there was some spillover for that. But, mm-hmm , the uncharted series of movies. Yeah, that did about almost 500 million us. So, you know, stuff is starting to, you.

Gel and people starting watch this stuff more and more. And this is what we're talking about, like direct adaptions. I mean, this, there was a movie, I mean, it was a TV show and it, I mean video game, it was a direct, you know, version of that. And they probably even did some scenes and characters in the movie directly from you know, from the video game.

So, so, so we'll see. But what about some of the other, these other movies that we talked about too like record Ralph Tron and Tron, legacy and Ready Player One, these and The Wizard to your point. Yeah, these are all kind of game, what do you, what we call like video games and the basically they're around the, the video game genre, right?

They're just like about, you know, the video game culture for lad they, they probably, you know, use references to, you know, character characters in the, in the video game. Like Rick Ralph is basically just a love letter to the types of video games, right? I don't, did they actually, yeah, they've used some actual characters from video games.

Mr. Benja: I, I, you know, I don't wanna make too much of an assumption about, you know, how they get their story because how they get their story is not, I think what the issue is. I mean, you can get a story from anywhere where you can just like you know, have a protagonist does something, overcomes some challenge, you know saves the princess in the end.

And you could say that from Mario or whatever, but I think oh, we forgot. Free guy. 

Theo: Oh yeah, free guy. That was a big one. 

Mr. Benja: I think what these movies that just come from, you know, thin air and that happen to use video games as a subject matter or a backdrop, I think they have the, the benefit of not being locked into that, you know lock and key paradigm that.

Video game structure. And I just think trying to shoehorn story into a story and character into a set series of steps is harder to do than take a proven series of steps and slap on a characters to it. So I think that's just easier in general. And then, and then you gotta get past the fact that the people that they go to, these that go to these video game companies, I think they're not I think they're bone hits in terms of

Like you're sitting around and you, you know, you've got doom and you know, you're like, oh, what if we made a movie of this? Hey, wouldn't it be cool if, you know, you had this monster jump out and it was first person and blah, blah, blah. So then when Hollywood comes up like, Hey, how you doing? We got a sack of money here.

We're trying to make a, a bigger sack of money. It's like, oh, okay, well what do you wanna do? Let's make a game. What's cool about the game? Oh, we had this one idea we were seeing and the Hollywood guy was like, all right, we don't know what's going on. We just had this video game we think is kind of interesting.

They may have played it once in a while. Mm-hmm. And I know for a fact that their ideas are different than what happened or what would happen in a game. So like, well, like, like we're saying with last of us, it's based around two characters. Do you bring in a bunch of characters no one knows or cares about?

Yeah. Or do you just make it about these two people? If it's about two people? How do you have two people in a WHO situation when you're used to a bunch of people you care about dying? So you just got these fundamental conflicts that are hard to work out and either games change or the way. movies about games change and that that's the only way you're gonna be able to get something that really works.

Because I think there are just some fundamental differences in how these art forms are structured that don't tend to get worked out, especially by the people involved. 

Theo: Hmm. That's a fair point, I think. Yeah. But you know what, superhero movies the same long time they were Yes. In the, in the, it was hard to crack that code man.

Hard to crack that code. And I think you know, we had spawn and other crappy nineties movies, ghost Rider and stuff like that popped up. Then I think X-Men kind of started the trend to kind of, you know, write the ship a little bit. The last Stand, the Spider-Man movies. Right. The first version. They started to kinda write the ship, and then finally Kevin Figge, he kind of put it all together and kind of made the uniform, you know, the, the, the, it made up basically, he, he built the movie business, what it is today, you know, I mean, I mean, basically what, over 20 movies majority of 'em made, you know, close, you know, close to a billion.

It is just like unheard of what he's done. So, you know, somebody could crack the code. I don't know. You know, could it be Craig Mazen in, in the Myan, excuse me, in the in the TV space? You know? I don't know. Yeah. But, you know, I think there's, there's an opportunity here. So, so, you know, it it is, it can happen.

Mr. Benja: Yeah. It, it's not, it's not simple. So when we say crack the code, we're not talking about, you know, well, hey, , you know, just make, just make these certain types of jokes and people will laugh, you know, like, I'm the jerk, not bitch. Yeah. You know, just make , just make these jokes and it'll work. And it's like, no, 

Theo: chop these lines.

Everybody gonna show up, 

Mr. Benja: bro. . . Exactly. Because if you don't make the jokes, then, then what happens? Or, you know, it's like, well, it's not, it's, it's not representative of the characters we see. Like, you know, people were always talking about the uniforms and outfits. It's like, well, is this uniform too much?

Is it, is it too accurate to the comic books? Because the comic books are kind of meant to be a caricature of life, you know? Superman used to have, 

Theo: well, FIY does a great job of, not to interrupt you, but just Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Fiy does a great job of just you know, distilling the essence of what the character's about.

So he can always change, you know, like the storylines a little bit or, or give you the, a different timing of the storylines, but for whatever he just knows and he just casts well, I mean, you know, so he knows the essence of the character well enough to know what he can or can't change to, to make it seem real.

And so, and, and the way he's evolved it, I mean, you know, if you look at the first Ironman is basically you know, Top gun, you know, it's just like, Hey, you know I'm Ironman, you know, did you do America? You know, at the end, you know? Yeah. But it's just like but the s is a Tony Stark, right? The, the self-made man who kind of helped himself get out of it.

You know, he had to change a heart, literally. Right. You know, his heart was killing him cuz he was, you know, he had no empathy and he had to change his heart to become a superhero. So, I mean, that's the essence, that juxta position of, you know, the fatal flaw, that noise, the fatal flaw of just what that means to be a superhero.

And, and I think that's endemic to, like, if you do a character well Yeah. You create a fatal flaw a, a character trait that, that matches their power. Right? And so it's kind of like a gift and a curse at the same time. So anyway, FIA understood that. So hopefully these. Video game movies and adaptions and TV shows.

Could you know, take that and figure out what, to your point when you, when you're playing a video game, I, I'm, you know, for, you know, any video game that you play, do you get a sense of that from a character standpoint? Do you see what was driving a character or is it still largely Yeah, that's, isn't that crazy?

And I think that's 

Mr. Benja: a challenge. It's, it's, it's, it's me that's playing the game. You know, I take the role of that character. Like when I first played Grand Theft Auto grand Theft Auto three, I remember like, he didn't say anything. He didn't have any extra dialogue. They were like, no, that character's kind of a version of you.

So they set up all this stuff in the world and then put you in a situation. And as long as you role played that situation that the character was in, like, Hey, this person's got a getaway. I'm the getaway driver. There's a car, I'm wearing a brown leather jacket and denim jeans, and the music is pumping.

it's kind of like, yeah, once you play the role that we've set up for you, it's going to feel like a good game. If you start doing, if you start trying to go against that environment, it doesn't feel like a good game. Wow. 

Theo: Okay. So it's, it's, it's not a bug, it's a feature. So baked into a video game is that these characters have to be almost ciphers because Right.

You have to, you as a player embody that. So whatever flaws you have are the flaws of the character. . Yes. So, you know, if you, like for instance, grant theft auto, you could do anything, right. But if you're like, I'm gun these missions and I'm not gonna, you know, beat up people or carjack 'em, right. You could do that.

Mm-hmm. . And so basically you have a different experience, right. And it's, the story will revolve around that. Oh, that's a great experience. You know, but if you're like, man, I'm trying to jack every mother that come up in here. I'm taking him out the car, taking all his money and taking his money and do it, then that's your fatal flaw.

And so the, the, the game will revolve around your fatal flaw. And so you, you know, so the other person may not make as much money as you and take longer on their missions. Mm-hmm. , you may make all the money, but then you going to get, you know, feedback, you know you're gonna get you know, a lot of people attacking you more often, so you have a harder time that way, so, wow.

Okay. But, but, and yeah. 

Mr. Benja: And that, and that feedback kind of doubles on itself because if they're attacking you because you've got more money, you don't think the attacks are a bad part of the game. , you're like, yeah, I should get those attacks because I'm making this money. I'm that kind of badass player.

And just on the other hand, if you're trying to be stealthy and sneaky and not maybe this is a better term for like metal gear. If you're playing the stealthy, stealthy, sneaky route and nobody attacks you, you're kind of thinking to yourself, I played the game well because absolutely nobody died.

Absolutely no one heard me. It's like that, whatever. So, you know, when you translate that to a movie, it's just more difficult because the expectations and the setups are completely different. So, you know, I, I'm, now, I'm struggling to think about what type of video game that's really good that I'd like to see as a movie.

And because of that disconnect, it actually is kind of difficult to, to place. Mm-hmm. , I'd rather, I'd rather create a movie. and then have like a video game made off of it. 

Theo: I, I wonder if horror video games are the best way to, to make the adaptions, because even in horror movies right, or horror TV shows, you are that character.

I mean, they kind of, you know, they don't show you the ghosts until the character sees a ghost, right? Or something like that. So just like in a game, you don't see the clickers until you, you know, your character turns and sees them. Right. You know, or you hear them just like the characters hear 'em. So, you know, to your point, you know, you can't bring anything to that.

Just, you know, your own, you know, your own fear and your reaction to that. So it doesn't seem, you know, so I don't know. I'm just, I'm just brainstorming this, but I'm thinking if horror. Video games may be the, the best way to adapt this and, and to be fair, last of us is that kind of version. So the, the ciphers, you know, whether, you know, you bring a fatal fall to it or not, doesn't matter.

Fear is fear, right? . So, you know, it is what it is. Well, 

Mr. Benja: and see here, here's the thing, like you just got me thinking. If we take our, our group example where there are a bunch of characters, I don't know of a, I'm trying to think of a video game that plays out like this, but let's say you've got a game where you have a bunch of NPCs, right?

And it's a horror game and you know you're gonna have to kill off some of the people that are actually helping you through the game at some point, cuz maybe they're getting infected. Mm-hmm. , this may start to change how you play the game. That's an interesting, interesting thought. It's like, huh, well I remember that shopkeeper I used to buy such and touch from him.

If I kill that shopkeeper, then. I won't be able to get such and such. I'll have to drive all the way to the next town or whatever to get it. And you start to have these ramifications and that seems a little more Hollywood like, where you have these decisions to make. So I think there's a, some sort of middle ground where you have a more cinematic video game.

I don't mean mm-hmm. , I don't mean cinematic in the sense of cut scenes. I mean, cinematic in the sense that there's this character arc with your ups, your downs, you know? A couple games have tried, like, you know, taking things away from the player. Like, you take things away from a main character and a story all the time.

Like, they lose their weapons, they lose access to whatever, they lose a loved one, they lose things. In a video game, you start losing stuff. It's like, man, this game sucks. I spent five hours building up this, this sword, and all of a sudden it's gone. Yeah. It's, it's hard. Final fantasy seven, wait, that spent all this time giving material to this, this girl, and now she's not with the city anymore.

Doesn't always work. Trust me. A lot of people have tried. Sometimes it just pisses the gamer off. So . 

Theo: Well, Mr. Benjamin, this has been an interesting conversation, man. Yeah, so, I mean, you know, anything you wanna sum up in general when it comes to like, video games and just where we're going with this new space of adaptions to TVs and movies?

Mr. Benja: You know, I, I, there's, we're, we've been looking at it from a video game property because as you said, you know, movies are doing one thing, but there's so much money in video games right now, and a lot of it's coming from, you know, streamers, people jumping online, playing Fortnite, and getting all this money from, you know, auxiliary ancillary avenues.

and it's like, can I take that same vibe, package it up and put it somewhere else? Because something that has been working on a smaller scale is taking these large properties like Jaws Nightmare in Elm Street or whatever, and bring them into the video game world. Mm-hmm. . And, and that's pretty, that's pretty exciting actually.

Probably more exciting than turning video games into these other properties. If you can figure a way to have these other properties turn into video games without spoiling the game experience and expanding the world at the same time. But 

Theo: Yeah, like stranger, like stranger things. That's what Netflix is doing, right?

They, they have Stranger things. They're doing two things with it. They're making live experiences. So you go to an event live mm-hmm. in the real world and then they're creating video games around that and that's their own ip. And so yeah, Netflix is going all in on that and they have, and they now have a video game studio, so they could play Stranger Games game inside Netflix.

So, so yeah, I see them doing more of that and seeing what they can do. And that's wonder if, I mean, to be honest with you, that's their only kinda original ip. I'm trying to think. I mean, squid game yeah, kind of maybe, but we'll, we'll see after season two, right? Yeah. But yeah, so cuz even though Wednesday, which is a hit for them or dahmers based on obviously other or the watcher, you know, those are kind of, I don't know, one-offs.

So, so anyway, so more to come on that, but what were you about to say? 

Mr. Benja: No, I think there's fertile ground. It just has to be developed carefully. Like you can't. . Like one of the reasons Marvel works is because it's not like you have a hit movie and that has spinoffs. You have a whole world that's already developed and then they just pick elements out of that world and start making more from it.

Like you have Ironman, he's got his own thing, you've got Captain America, who's his own thing, but let's, let's do a little bit of crossover. Mm-hmm. . But it's not like Ironman really needed to exist before Captain America came out. Right? Yeah. You know, so you've got these, it's just a completely unique situation, which makes it work for where we are now.

And I don't think that people have been doing that with video games where they're taking the unique situation that they have with a video game world and video game properties and trying to turn that into something that can be spread across other mediums. I think they're just trying to say, Hey, well, Mario saves the princess, or, well, doesn't, didn't save the.

It isn't going to say to the princess in this one cuz it's a whole different setup, but, you know, Hey, Mario's here, he's the main character. Let's do this. Nobody would fund, for example, a a, a a series about some character. That's one of the Yoshi's. That's not the Yoshi we know. You know, like, let's call him let's call him Brohi, right?

So there's this other character called Brohi and it's like, dude, we're gonna make this whole franchise. It's gonna be this character called Brohi. Well, he's gonna have a video game. No, no. We're just gonna go straight to theaters. It's gonna be a, a movie called Brohi. Is Yoshi showing up in it? No, it's about Brohi.

Is Mario Ori or who's showing up? Well, no, it's just about Brohi. He's gonna be hanging out Mother Kingdom. It's like you get laughed out of the building, but it's only because everybody's head is so into, well, here's Mario, here's what Mario Brothers about. if you don't start from Mario, end of discussion.

So until you get around that, I think, I think you're gonna have a 

Theo: lot of problems. Nah, well said man. So obviously, we'll, we'll keep our pulse on this space as we do of all things related to pop culture. So I think we're gonna wrap up here, Mr. Benes. So 

Mr. Benja: quick question, quick question for before you at, I know we're, I know we're at one 18, we know we're one 18 or something like that.

Is there anything you'd want to, any video game you'd want to see besides excom turned into a movie or TV property 

Theo: like you? Man, I, I, I don't care. I mean, it's like, it's a compelling story. It's like, you know, I, I don't play enough video games to even care. You know what I mean? You know, and they did, they did a Halo TV show.

No one even talked about that. Right. I think it's on Paramount Plus. I was gonna check that out, see if that was any good. But but yeah, I don't, yeah, I'm just not drawn into this stuff like that. So yeah, I mean I'm trying to think back to the, back in the day. Was there anything, like, you said metal gear, but I thought they tried something like that, but I can't recall.

Didn't they try what was it called? Dang, I'm trying to think. Same as, is it same as what was that? Metro Metro, yeah. Didn't they tried Metro something? TV show. Movie. But anyway, so Nah, not really. Yeah, man. 

Mr. Benja: I, there's, there's so much that we could do, man. Give, gimme a punch out series.

Yeah, that's right. And Little Mac is just the coach at this gym with all these crazy characters. I'll give You'all that one for 

Theo: free, man. Love it. . I love it. Well, everyone, thanks for your time. Appreciate it. We're gonna end it here. Please like, subscribe and comment at show versus business on Twitter, YouTube and Instagram.

Listen to us at Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And also go check out our website show versus business. All right, Mr. Benja. Take care. Peace.