From Cows to Carriage Horses: Animal Ownership is Under Attack

Listen to the podcast here - https://www.northamericanag.com/north-american-ag-spotlight - From Cows to Carriage Horses: Animal Ownership is Under Attack

In this eye-opening episode of North American Ag Spotlight, host Chrissy Wozniak is joined by Mindy Patterson of The Cavalry Group, Brian High from NorthStar Carriage in Dallas, and Stephanie Dickinson of Yellow Rose Carriage Company in San Antonio. Together, they delve into the growing threats against animal ownership and animal-based businesses, with a particular focus on the challenges faced by horse-drawn carriage companies in Texas.

This discussion highlights how radical animal rights activism is targeting these businesses and others across the country, from rodeos to dairy farms, with the goal of banning animal ownership altogether. The guests share their personal stories of fighting local legislation and the false narratives pushed by activists, and they reveal how these attacks on working animals, such as horses, are just the beginning of a broader campaign against agriculture and property rights.

Key Discussion Points:
Animal Rights Activism & Legislation: Mindy Patterson explains how The Cavalry Group works to protect the rights of animal-based businesses and the impact of local, state, and federal legislation influenced by animal rights groups.
Horse-Drawn Carriage Battles: Brian High and Stephanie Dickinson share their experiences in fighting proposed bans on horse-drawn carriages in Dallas and San Antonio, despite these businesses operating lawfully and under strict regulations.
Broader Implications for Agriculture: The panel discusses how this isn’t just a fight about horses, but part of a larger movement against all forms of animal agriculture, including livestock and pet ownership.
Calls to Action: The episode emphasizes the importance of taking a proactive stance, encouraging listeners to support preemptive legislation like the Working Animal Protection Act and stand up against activist-driven efforts that threaten animal ownership and property rights.

Guest Information:
Mindy Patterson – President of The Cavalry Group, a national member-based company dedicated to protecting the constitutional and private property rights of animal owners.
Brian High – Owner of NorthStar Carriage in Dallas, Texas, and a vocal advocate in the fight against the proposed ban on horse-drawn carriages.
Stephanie Dickinson – Owner of Yellow Rose Carriage Company in San Antonio, Texas, who shares her battle against legislation that threatens to bankrupt family-run carriage businesses.

Call to Action:
Listeners are encouraged to take action by sending letters to Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, urging him to protect lawful businesses like horse-drawn carriages from activist-driven bans. Follow the link in the show notes to get involved and make your voice heard!

Resources & Links:
The Cavalry Group: https://www.thecavalrygroup.com/
Save Dallas Horse Carriages: https://www.facebook.com/people/Save-Dallas-Horse-Carriages/61555249262248/
Letter to Ken Paxton: https://the-cavalry-group.rallycongress.com/ctas/urge-texas-attorney-general-ken-paxton-to-hold-city-council-san-antonio-accountable-unlawfully-banning-horse-dra

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Transcript

00;00;22;25 - 00;00;51;27
Chrissy Wozniak
Welcome to North American Ag spotlight. It was my our returning guest Mindy Patterson specializes in protecting members of the cavalry group against the onslaught of animal rights driven legislation at the local, state, and federal levels. We're also working to expose the infiltration of animal rights activism and government. Joining her today are. Brian. Hi of Northstar Carriage Company in Dallas, and Stephanie Dickinson of Yellow Rose Carriage Company in San Antonio.

00;00;51;29 - 00;01;16;08
Chrissy Wozniak
Our topic today is dear to my heart. We are going to discuss the battle that Texas horse drawn carriage companies are going through, and I personally know this topic well. Back in the late 1990s and again in the 2000s, I was a carriage driver for Centennial Carriage Company in Niagara Falls and in the beloved little town there, just north of Niagara Falls in Niagara on the Lake.

00;01;16;11 - 00;01;40;12
Chrissy Wozniak
I witnessed firsthand a change in the general public's view of horses being used in this way. In the 1990s, people gushed happily, even dreamily, when they saw us. But only ten years later, we started to get angry looks and aggressive behavior from people passing by. And that was more than ten years ago. It's it's gotten a lot worse in the last ten years.

00;01;40;14 - 00;02;08;16
Chrissy Wozniak
Since I moved on, my dear friends who own the multi generally generational company Centennial Carriage Company, Fred and Laura Sentinel, along with their now adult kids Megan, Sean and Amanda, have endured unfathomable abuse from animal activists. They fought hard to protect their company and their freedoms, and this is why I am so interested in hearing how mind is helping and the stories of Brian and Stephanie's fight in Texas.

00;02;08;19 - 00;02;17;13
Chrissy Wozniak
So, without further chatter from me, I would like to welcome Mandy Patterson. Brian. Hi, and Stephanie Dickinson. Thank you so much for being here. All of you.

00;02;17;16 - 00;02;20;20
Mindy Patterson
Thank you for having us here.

00;02;20;22 - 00;02;29;28
Chrissy Wozniak
So can you each just take turns and give you some background on yourselves? The issue at hand and then how it relates to your real lives. So, Mindy, do you want to start off?

00;02;30;01 - 00;02;55;15
Mindy Patterson
Sure. I'll kick us off. The cavalry group, as you mentioned, is a member based company that protects and defends the constitutional and private property rights of law abiding animal enterprise. And so we are out there, in the trenches, working, legally and legislatively to protect all of our members that are engaged in lawful businesses that, utilize working animals.

00;02;55;18 - 00;03;24;02
Mindy Patterson
And we've been involved in the horse drawn carriage band, meaning that we've been defending against all the all of these bands since about 2012, when, the first band was starting to make its way through New York City Central Park for horse drawn carriages there, and we engaged in basically just helping all the carriages organize to fight back, giving them the tools and, ramping it up into a national campaign.

00;03;24;02 - 00;03;50;09
Mindy Patterson
And from there, we've been working to defend the carriages in Chicago and Charleston and Saint Louis, Kansas City, and now in Dallas and San Antonio, Texas, which just seems unfathomable to me that we are having to defend working animals in the state of Texas, for crying out loud. And so, that's basically what we've been up to. And these bands are cookie cutter.

00;03;50;11 - 00;04;30;19
Mindy Patterson
I mean, these they're all spearheaded by radical animal rights extremists. They're all preying on lawful animal enterprise. They all of these businesses that they're claiming are, you know, instilling abuse on their animals are it's all this false narrative. It's all the same. It's the same tired propaganda that they push in every single city on these incredible people who are bringing such a delightful atmosphere through horse drawn carriages, not to mention a connection of human animal bond to the urban setting.

00;04;30;21 - 00;05;13;25
Mindy Patterson
In the cities where they're working. It's incredible. I never go anywhere without taking a horse drawn carriage ride ever. It's just it's such a happy, wonderful. Activity. It's incredible. Especially if you love horses as much as I do. So, it's it's just a crime that these things are being banned. And I have to add, just briefly, we got so tired of playing defense here at the Calvary Group that we thought we were doing a good thing by passing the Working Animal Protection Act, which is passed in Oklahoma, Arkansas, and an expanded version of it in Texas, to be a preemptive strike against the animal rights groups from banning outright carriages or

00;05;13;25 - 00;05;37;09
Mindy Patterson
any lawful business that utilizes working animals. And this passed and last year in 2023, known as the Regulatory Consistency Act, or House Bill 2127. In the state of Texas, we worked really hard to achieve this, thinking it would head everybody off at the pass. All the bad guys and these cities have pretty much thumbed their nose at the law.

00;05;37;12 - 00;06;01;22
Mindy Patterson
So it has been mind boggling to me. I mean, nothing has happened yet. We'll see. It's really up to Ken Paxton, the attorney general in Texas, to enforce the law. So that's my spiel. That's from the beginning to present day as to what the Calvary Group has been involved in, kind of in a nutshell, and protecting these lawful businesses.

00;06;01;25 - 00;06;04;06
Chrissy Wozniak
Thank you. Mindy and Stephanie.

00;06;04;08 - 00;06;29;18
Mindy Patterson
Yeah. I came over from England in 2015. I was a police officer over in the UK. I moved here with the dream of working with horses and the horse carriages. Downtown San Antonio, the companies that I purchased and have actually been around since the early 80s. So they've been around a long time. The actual industry has been in San Antonio since 1865.

00;06;29;21 - 00;06;52;13
Mindy Patterson
And in November 2022, I received a call from a reporter asking me what I thought about the CCR that I'd been, filed to ban the horse carriages. And that was the first thing that I heard. I didn't hear anything from the council. We never had any incidents. We've never had any sort of, accidents or anything major.

00;06;52;15 - 00;07;18;05
Mindy Patterson
And suddenly they decided to ban us without any warning. So we've been fighting this since November 2022. It's it lost momentum for a little bit. And then in the last six months, the city council are really pushing for this. We recently had, a meeting with the board for the Transportation Infrastructure, Chuck, and they have decided they want to phase out between 1 to 3 years.

00;07;18;08 - 00;07;45;08
Mindy Patterson
They don't understand. Even though we've been to them. We've tried to compromise and everything else. We've invested millions into these businesses and what they're doing, minor family run businesses, they're going to bankrupt us. But then they want us to go into horseless electric carriages. So. And I personally have been all over. I've been to Guadalajara, I've been to the Republic, Florida, to investigate these horses, electric carriages, and nobody's interested in them.

00;07;45;10 - 00;08;11;27
Mindy Patterson
It's not a viable business, and it's not what people want. People want to see the horses, and it's just it's like hitting your head against a brick wall with the City Council of San Antonio. They have just got their blinders on, as we would say, and they are just followed with this. They are going to Banos. It makes no difference what we say, what we try and compromise.

00;08;11;29 - 00;08;13;11
Chrissy Wozniak
Brian.

00;08;13;13 - 00;08;32;00
Brian High
Yeah, my name is, Brian High with, Northstar carriage in Dallas, Texas. We too are. And I've been doing this since the, the mid 90s when I came into the industry as a, as a broke college student, finding a way to take my background into, maybe make a little money for rent and stuff like that.

00;08;32;00 - 00;08;55;22
Brian High
And, fell in love with the industry, bought a business in 96, and I've been in, business for myself since 96. Haven't had the same fights Stephanie's had in San Antonio. That seems like, when you say, what's everything bad that happens in Canada first, that's what's about to happen. I've followed what's happening in San Antonio because that's what follows into Dallas.

00;08;55;24 - 00;09;19;19
Brian High
And it's unfortunate that those campaigns go from city to city like that. But like Mindy said, it's the same old tired playbook. And it it's just they're they're well organized. They definitely are. But we haven't had the same fight that they've had in San Antonio or our campaign I guess, really came to the forefront, December 5th last year in 23.

00;09;19;21 - 00;10;03;19
Brian High
And we were, of course, neck deep in Christmas. We didn't even get a chance to look at it until January. So I guess for the last, what is it now pushing nine months? We've been having this this fight with, city council and I guess the animal rights vegan activists or whatever they are. I know Mindy has been instrumental in helping us guide through this fight because she's seen this, you know, in every city, I will say that the thing that has really helped us here in Dallas is just education, because I don't think that, I don't think all the leaders that are in charge of, well, really any city municipality

00;10;03;19 - 00;10;28;11
Brian High
are that involved with all the small goings on in their city, and they take the loudest voice and they just run with it. And man, these, these animal rights activists, these extremists that do this. You want to talk about a voice? That voice is being shouted. It's almost like torture for city council. I mean, it's shouted at the top of its lungs in their office, on their computer, in their email.

00;10;28;11 - 00;10;48;16
Brian High
It's every single day and it never stops. And I'm sure they're doing the same email campaign in San Antonio, and that's how they've got everybody's attention. But in Dallas, I just of the city council members that I've met with, I don't see how they endure it. I mean, it's just it will not stop there. Very well organized as far as that goes.

00;10;48;19 - 00;11;10;23
Brian High
But I will tell you, as we've tried to educate people, and I know that that curve runs a lot slower than the e-mail campaign. Most people are pretty understandable. They really are. Now we're in Texas, so most people in Texas have the same sentiments that we do. They can't believe that this would happen in Texas. And we have the same push for the electric carriage.

00;11;10;23 - 00;11;31;26
Brian High
But all of the education that we've done, make no mistake, the horse is the star of the show. It doesn't matter how well I'm dressed, it doesn't matter how cool of a carriage I have or what $5,000 harness I put on the darn thing. A horse is the star of the show, period. I am in Virginia City, Montana.

00;11;31;26 - 00;11;54;06
Brian High
It is almost 2000 miles from my home, and I'm collaborating with a carriage service that that I've worked with for a few years. And the the town here does horseback carriage rides, or horseback rides and stagecoach rides. And it's like a, it's a staple for this city. People come from all over the country here to do this.

00;11;54;09 - 00;12;12;24
Brian High
Now it's it's tucked away in Montana. I'm not going to tell those people, you know, they'll have those problems here because they'll come here. But I will say that, the horse is it's the centerpiece. If you were in this town, the horse is like the main thing that you would see in this town right now. The horse is the star of the show.

00;12;12;27 - 00;12;15;26
Brian High
Yeah. People just don't understand that.

00;12;15;29 - 00;12;44;00
Mindy Patterson
And the other thing people don't love. I'm sorry. The other thing people don't understand is that these animal activists, it's a political agenda to completely alter Americans views about what is considered humane treatment of animals. They're controlling the narrative, and yet they know nothing about animal husbandry. Absolutely nothing and nothing will be good enough for them. They'll just keep moving the goalpost until we're gone.

00;12;44;02 - 00;13;06;18
Mindy Patterson
That's their goal. Well, they have openly admitted, because when it first started down in San Antonio, we had somebody from Chicago and New York on a radio station where one of the council members and he said the if they could close the carriage industry down in San Antonio, they could close it down. And the whole country, we were going to set a precedent, believe that.

00;13;06;21 - 00;13;30;02
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And and I want to also so my audience is agriculture based. And I just want to make it really clear that this is a different topic for us in agriculture, because it's to do with horses. And but these are work animals. This is exactly the same as livestock. And what you're going through on your dairy farms, with activists is, is exactly the same thing.

00;13;30;08 - 00;13;52;22
Chrissy Wozniak
They're not stopping at horses. They're not stopping at dairy cows. They're not stopping at beef cows. This is a full out attack on animal ownership and property rights. And I know Mindy can speak to that. She gets very passionate about this topic, but I just want to make it clear that this is why I want these horse carriages on this show, even though we're mostly agriculture based.

00;13;52;25 - 00;14;15;14
Chrissy Wozniak
It's all animals. It's even dogs. I've witnessed that in Niagara on the Lake. Those activists say they don't agree with dog ownership. Mindy, would you mind kind of explaining some of the things that you've you've experienced with other, you know, dogs, elephants and, and some of that just as a base for everyone to really, really grasp that it's all animals, not just these horses, of course.

00;14;15;14 - 00;14;43;09
Mindy Patterson
Well, everybody's in the crosshairs, as you've said. And legislation is ground zero. It is ground zero at the local, state and federal levels. And, for example, the state of Massachusetts just a couple of months ago passed state legislation to ban the exhibition of certain exotic animals. So you can't go to the state fair and see certain exotic animals or, see a traveling circus or animal exhibit.

00;14;43;11 - 00;15;10;07
Mindy Patterson
There's a lot of people who own small educational zoos with exotic animals by definition, within the legislation. So there are states all over the country that have already banned outright the exhibition of exotic animals. But the state of Massachusetts just did so a couple weeks ago, all over the country, at the local level. I mean, there's a long list of, working animals that have been banned at the local level.

00;15;10;09 - 00;15;42;00
Mindy Patterson
In 24 states and 78 municipalities, they've already banned carriages and quite a few cities. They're trying to ban rodeo in Los Angeles as well as San Diego. Tell me that's not potential to come to, Texas if they're successful in banning horse drawn carriages. Rodeo is next in the crosshairs. There, they're banning, the ability for, licensed, regulated, inspected dog breeders who breed for the pet industry to sell through pet stores.

00;15;42;00 - 00;16;08;16
Mindy Patterson
If something doesn't align with the ideology of these animal rights groups, which they, as Brian was saying, and Stephanie, two, they coerce the city council members and sometimes state legislators into doing their bidding by writing them big checks and supporting their campaigns. And, you know, there's a lot of coercion, that goes on to, to basically advance their agenda.

00;16;08;16 - 00;16;37;02
Mindy Patterson
And that is a, no animal ownership society, no animal use at all. And it's all coming through legislative reform and regulatory reform, which is comes to us via legislation. And that's why we got tired of playing defense on all of these local municipal bands that were happening and all of these things. I mean, we have a long, in fact, I'll share with you the link, Kristy, so you can post it on, in the show notes.

00;16;37;05 - 00;16;57;20
Mindy Patterson
There's a list of all these states and local municipalities that have outright banned working animals, and it's a crime. People don't even know that this is going on in their backyard. And one day they'll say, hey, weird. Why isn't there, the same animal exhibition, tent or exhibit that was at our county fair like last year?

00;16;57;22 - 00;17;19;25
Mindy Patterson
Oh, that was banned legislatively by the city council or the state legislature. Things are just vanishing. They're disappearing, and we can't let this happen. And the horse drawn carriages are so important, not only because it brings that human animal bond to the urban setting, where most kids and people may not even get to touch a horse or experience a draft horse.

00;17;20;02 - 00;17;50;25
Mindy Patterson
Working animals. It's an amazing experience for for everyone and, the same holds true for rodeo and all these different venues for working animals. But one day these things, if they just go away, people won't know what happened. They'll just be gone. But it's not just about the carriage ride. It's about our way of life. You know, animal agriculture and animal ownership has been the cornerstone of America since our founding, and it is a private property issue, as you pointed out.

00;17;50;25 - 00;18;15;23
Mindy Patterson
Chrissy. And, this is who we are as Americans. Americans love these, these things. This is part of, of our culture and our heritage. And they want to strip it away because it doesn't align with their personal agenda. And they are a vocal minority, by the way, why are we bending to the will of the small vocal minority that wants to destroy our way of life?

00;18;15;26 - 00;18;18;00
Mindy Patterson
We can't. We can't let this happen.

00;18;18;00 - 00;18;41;18
Chrissy Wozniak
Exactly. Yeah. And and there's a difference. As anyone who's worked with animals knows, you will do anything for your animals. It's not that we don't love animals, you know, especially livestock especially. Yes. They have one bad day, right? That was actually a quote from Fred Sentinel who taught me a long time ago. Those animals have one bad day, and even then, they don't even, you know, it's fast.

00;18;41;20 - 00;19;07;24
Chrissy Wozniak
But when you work with animals every day, I have countless stories of how horses have saved me. Right. And. And then what we give back to them as well. You know, I know I've shared this with you, Mindy, but I went into premature labor with my son while I was driving a carriage, and I'm at 22 weeks, and, I had to get him home first.

00;19;07;26 - 00;19;28;23
Chrissy Wozniak
I had no, nobody was answering their phones. I couldn't do it, but I. I couldn't leave a horse in the middle of town. Right. So we give everything. My son, of course, was fine. Got to the hospital and he had some help once I got to the farm. But we put everything into those animals. The same with our dogs.

00;19;28;25 - 00;19;45;19
Chrissy Wozniak
It's not that we don't love our animals. They're not human. And anthropomorphism, it's defined as the act of assigning human characteristics, emotion, and intentions to animals. And I believe this is the problem. And I think it started with Disney.

00;19;45;22 - 00;19;46;16
Mindy Patterson
Absolutely.

00;19;46;22 - 00;19;56;28
Chrissy Wozniak
And so what is the danger of this creeping anthropomorphism in our society? You can teach whoever wants to talk.

00;19;57;01 - 00;20;24;27
Mindy Patterson
Well, regarding my, carriage horses, I mean, I have 19, draft horses, working horses, the city council wants to take my horses away from me. That I have the best possible care. Spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on them every year, and they want to give them to rescues because they have this idealistic, vision that they're going to just run around in pastures for the rest of their lives.

00;20;24;29 - 00;20;47;05
Mindy Patterson
The council member that actually brought the ccra wants to ban, police horses and police dogs. So it's just nonstop with them. Nonstop. I mean, my horses, their lives from would be shot. I'm going to rescue. They need the exercise. They love the interaction downtown. They loved. I have no problem. And people say, well, they have no choice.

00;20;47;07 - 00;20;59;06
Mindy Patterson
Of course they have a choice. I could not make a 2,000 pound horse get onto a trailer and attach it to a carriage and go and work for an hour. Even if it didn't want to do it. It's, exactly.

00;20;59;08 - 00;21;02;24
Chrissy Wozniak
Clearly, those people have never been around a horse that doesn't want to do something.

00;21;02;26 - 00;21;20;00
Mindy Patterson
Yeah, and every time we say you like the cow that first came out, it was like, oh, it's cruel to the horses. So we address that even the city vet went down and said, look, there's no issues. There's no evidence of any horse ever having, lonely shoes working in this sort of environment. And so then it changed.

00;21;20;00 - 00;21;44;18
Mindy Patterson
Oh, well, the causing congestion. And then we address that because they've taken all our courage, stands away from the ordinance and not replaced them. And now we're at public safety. So every time we address something, they change it. So it's, it's it's nonstop. And we've got 11 members on the city council that I've got know. And like Brian said, no education into what we do.

00;21;44;18 - 00;22;13;00
Mindy Patterson
They have no idea of how our businesses work, but they're just so determined to close this down because they need to rescue these horses. And they use an examples from grease horses collapsing in Greece and Mumbai. It's just it's crazy. Absolutely crazy. Well, you've got people who know absolutely zero about horses and animals or husbandry telling you the expert how to care for your animals.

00;22;13;00 - 00;22;36;16
Mindy Patterson
And this is this is the crime that's happening. It's, you know, sitting in these committee hearings, it's very telling because the animal rights groups have nothing but emotion. It's all emotion driven. And then our side shows up with veterinarians and all the experts you know, about whatever the issue is, in this case, horse drawn carriages. You get all the the experts about horses.

00;22;36;16 - 00;23;01;26
Mindy Patterson
And look, these are working animals. These horses are bred to pull a carriage and it's really effortless for them. And all these things. We come up with the science and the and the facts and again, these lawmakers oftentimes fall prey to the emotional propaganda. And it's just all a bunch of lies. It really is. We already have laws in place to to weed out the people who aren't doing their best.

00;23;01;26 - 00;23;26;28
Mindy Patterson
But why punish everybody? Why ban an industry outright? That's the thing that we don't understand it banning an entire industry just because, you know, they're they've decided they've made these decisions, that it's not something they want. That's not how we do things. And again, our preemptive legislation that's passed in three states, including Texas, should be doing its job.

00;23;26;28 - 00;23;59;25
Mindy Patterson
I guess we'll find out if if the attorney general wants to, to stand up and and defend the law, enforce the law. That's his his job. In fact, if you don't mind, I'll mention briefly there's a, link that, you're we're excited that you'll be sharing in your show notes that we'll be sending. It's an opportunity for people to send letters directly to Ken Paxton, Texas attorney general, to ask him to protect the the lawful businesses in San Antonio, known as, you know, horse drawn carriages.

00;23;59;25 - 00;24;20;14
Mindy Patterson
I mean, under the purview of the Regulatory Consistency Act. It doesn't get into the weeds as to which small businesses it's protecting. But you know why we shouldn't have to go in and spell things out in a specific nature. Business is business, you know, and that's what the bill says that not it's not a bill. It's the law.

00;24;20;16 - 00;24;50;16
Mindy Patterson
That's what the law says, is that you they can't outright ban a lawful business, in local municipalities. So now they're basically just pushing, pushing, pushing, pressuring. And to me it's like a game of chicken. They're trying to see if if, the attorney general is really going to enforce the law. Well, I guess we'll find out, you know, and that's what we want to do is provide an opportunity for your listeners to send a letter to Ken Paxton and say, this is not this cannot happen.

00;24;50;20 - 00;25;02;23
Mindy Patterson
Not only can this not happen, this certainly can't happen in Texas. So we're hoping that he will follow through and step up to the plate to protect these legal, lawful businesses.

00;25;02;25 - 00;25;31;26
Chrissy Wozniak
Right? Yeah. And so I call on all listeners, go follow that link. And, you know, action, action, action because it's you next. So let's stand together and have our voices heard and send that letter and try to help protect our, our industries. Mindy, can you explain more or talk more about your preemptive legislation, what that entails and how you're setting that up kind of as a template, right, to to rule out in other states?

00;25;31;28 - 00;26;10;16
Mindy Patterson
Sure. The Working Animal Protection Act is a very simple four paragraph, piece of legislation that basically is a preemptive bill, that if people want to look it up, the the model is the Oklahoma bill that passed in 2021 and that was, Oklahoma 2021, House Bill 1620, if you want to look it up. And, it basically just says that, local municipalities cannot outright ban lawful businesses that utilize working animals in transportation, such as horse drawn carriages, exhibition education, entertainment and agritourism.

00;26;10;18 - 00;26;52;15
Mindy Patterson
And it's it's the whole idea behind it is to go on offense to protect these lawful businesses from the animal rights groups that have been spearheading these bans all across the country. As I said earlier, they have already. And when I say animal rights groups, I mean specifically the Humane Society of the United States and Peta have really done their fair share of banning these lawful businesses, all across the country, in 24 states, in 78 local municipalities, by sometimes even banning the tool, they banned, the ability for people to who own elephants in the state of California by banning the elephant guide.

00;26;52;15 - 00;27;12;05
Mindy Patterson
Well, the elephant guide looks exactly like a show stick. It shows the precedent that they're setting to come for more. If they can ban the elephant guide, they can be on the show stick, they can ban spurs, they can ban the bucking strap. They can ban certain bits harnesses. You know, we could just go on and on. This is how they're doing this.

00;27;12;05 - 00;27;40;02
Mindy Patterson
And it's a crime. So our the Working Animal Protection Act is trying is an opportunity for those engaged in agriculture, in animal husbandry, people who work with working animals to say, if we don't have a preemptive piece of legislation that becomes law, that says animal rights groups can't ban us outright legislatively. You know, that's really what this does.

00;27;40;02 - 00;28;04;12
Mindy Patterson
It's an opportunity to head them off at the pass. It's an opportunity to go on offense, defense. Playing defense is tough. If that's what we're doing in San Antonio and Dallas, and we're up against this constant barrage of misinformation and lies from these well-funded animal rights groups, which, by the way, talking about well funded everything they do is about money.

00;28;04;20 - 00;28;35;16
Mindy Patterson
It's really not about the welfare of animals. It's really not they they just want they want an animal abolition. And in the in the process, they are raising money on the back of these campaigns. And that's that also is a crime. And then they in turn use that money to, fund lawyers and lobbyists to pass more bad legislation, very deceptive legislation and, basically to put people out of business who raise, breed and work with animals.

00;28;35;18 - 00;28;51;14
Mindy Patterson
People better wake up. Unbelievable. This is happening all over the country. And all of this leads to our food supply. All of this leads goes down the road to, you know, harming our food producers. All of it is, that's where the road goes.

00;28;51;17 - 00;29;17;20
Chrissy Wozniak
Yes. And you and I have discussed in the past, too, that it doesn't even stop at food production. It really stops at property rights and individuals. Right? Yeah. So what what other efforts have been taking place in Texas? Stephanie. What? How are you fighting against this? And do you have advice for other companies? And really, animal owners across the nation?

00;29;17;23 - 00;29;36;27
Mindy Patterson
We've been very lucky that Mindy, stepped up and really helped us with the cavalry group. We've been very much on our run in San Antonio. Like I said earlier, we are just hitting our heads against a brick wall, trying to compromise with the council because they want you to sit down and talk to us.

00;29;36;29 - 00;30;03;15
Mindy Patterson
The last meeting, I stood up, did a six minute speech, and none of it was heard. We've produced, promotional videos. We've give them interviews with the city back. I'm currently working in Austin. I go to Austin, lobbying over there at the moment, trying to work with the House bill two and two seven so that we can get some sort of amendment there because San Antonio, I just saying that it doesn't say working animal in two, one, two seven.

00;30;03;15 - 00;30;13;01
Mindy Patterson
So that gives them the right to actually banners so that that's the way that they're going ahead with the.

00;30;13;03 - 00;30;37;10
Chrissy Wozniak
We seem to have lost Brian. He's out in Montana and and his Wi-Fi connection wasn't great. So I'm not purposely skipping over him. It's just that we've lost him for now. Hopefully he comes back. So how how would somebody. Mindy. If they want more information on how to set this up in their own states, where do they go and what are kind of the steps?

00;30;37;13 - 00;30;42;17
Chrissy Wozniak
And of course, I know, you know, you're always welcoming new members to the cavalry group to.

00;30;42;20 - 00;31;06;25
Mindy Patterson
Absolutely. You know, if you are a, animal enterprise that's being harassed by animal rights groups or they're threatening to ban you in some way, reach out to us and we'll help you get organized, with the campaign. And reach out to, lawmakers to to help you. Basically, that's what we do is try to, you know, organize a campaign.

00;31;06;25 - 00;31;35;24
Mindy Patterson
It's it's an effort that is many tears. But honestly, you know, this is tough because as Stephanie just said, you know, every legislator in the state House supports them. I mean, the legislature is all about, engaging in, you know, supporting commerce in the state of Texas. I mean, this is an attack on a lawful business. These guys are licensed and inspected and unannounced inspections, by the way.

00;31;35;27 - 00;31;56;06
Mindy Patterson
They're doing everything right. And yet these groups are pushing, pushing, pushing to make them go away. Then you've got the people at the local level. This is where the the horns are clashing, because it seems as though local government is just running rampant and out of control and pushing some of these things that the state legislature don't agree with.

00;31;56;06 - 00;32;25;13
Mindy Patterson
And that's why they passed the regulatory Consistency Act in the first place, because these urban activists are being met with sympathetic ears in the city councils or county commissioners to ban these lawful businesses because what they do don't align with their ideology. And that's what we're facing all across the country. Honestly, that's what's happened in California, with the coastal elites versus the people in agriculture and the rural areas.

00;32;25;13 - 00;32;30;29
Mindy Patterson
There's a a political clashing of urban urban versus rural.

00;32;31;01 - 00;32;46;03
Chrissy Wozniak
So we've caught up with Brian again. We had lost him on the original call, but I've caught up with him again, and we're, we're just about ready to start our conversation again. So Brian, tell me your story about your carriage company and what you've been going through in Dallas.

00;32;46;05 - 00;33;07;22
Brian High
Yeah, my name is Brian. Hi. I have a carriage service in Dallas, Texas. We've been operating since 96. In the downtown area. We do, you know, just basically what you see in every city, historical tours, weddings, funerals, you know, special events, parades, etc.. For years and years and years, we've operated in a very competitive business down there.

00;33;07;25 - 00;33;35;15
Brian High
In the last two years, we have come under fire from, definitely politically driven animal rights activists that, have started a campaign across the country, in 20 some odd cities, actually, all over the world, and about 20 cities specifically in the United States, that they want to ban horse drawn carriages. And what they do is they go down and they protest where you're operating and they try to find violations.

00;33;35;15 - 00;34;09;23
Brian High
And they they have an incredible, an incredible email campaign that just hounds the city council to where they get their voice heard. And over the last ten months, specifically, we have been dealing directly with city leaders on trying to set the record straight, make sure that everybody understands the truth and not the propaganda. Make sure everybody understands that, you know, the horses are well taken care of, etc., etc. and that everything that they say is not is not exactly, exactly true.

00;34;10;00 - 00;34;37;25
Brian High
We do not as as you saw in the in the main interview, we do not have the same situation that Stephanie has down in San Antonio. It's a similar group. It's the same parent company based out of Chicago that has started all this. And fortunately for us, and I hope this continues, that the city of Dallas is not a big fan of letting the city of Chicago try to dictate policy or how they need to run their city.

00;34;37;25 - 00;34;55;14
Brian High
And, it's a, it's definitely a different tone that they have in San Antonio. So I understand that Stephanie's fighting a little bit different battle than we are, and I hope it I hope for Stephanie sake gets better, and I hope ours doesn't change too much. But, you know, we're we're all in it together. I'm here to help Stephanie if she needs help.

00;34;55;14 - 00;34;59;14
Brian High
And she's been right there when we've had questions as well.

00;34;59;16 - 00;35;18;12
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's, amazing that it's two places in Texas, of all places. Right? It's just shocking to me that it could happen in in any state. And it's just such a good warning to everyone else that, you know, we got to get on top of it legislatively as fast as possible. Like what Mindy always says, let's get ahead of the legislation.

00;35;18;12 - 00;35;20;21
Chrissy Wozniak
Let's fight back before it's a fight.

00;35;20;24 - 00;35;39;14
Brian High
The correct. Yeah, it seems insane that we do have to talk about this in Texas. And and like I said, fortunately for us city leaders that I've spoke with, I mean, the ones that you actually can sit down with and you can actually tell them where things actually sit and not just the propaganda coming out of Chicago that's, you know, it's all politically driven, right?

00;35;39;14 - 00;36;05;11
Brian High
It's all, vegan motivated. You know, they don't want any they don't want any meat or anything. And so there's a bigger agenda going on. We are just the first step to that direction. Right. And so once you take the first step to go that way, that's what they want. And they've said by their own admission, and I said this in our last city Council meeting, by their own admission, they will not stop in Dallas at horse drawn carriages.

00;36;05;11 - 00;36;30;04
Brian High
They will not stop until the sale of meat, wool and all dairy products are banned in the city of Dallas. And as crazy as that sounds, that's the type of people that we're dealing with. And it's just it it just seems unfathomable that it does come to a place like like Dallas, you know, like if that was in Portland or Seattle, like, you probably probably understand, but not not down, down south.

00;36;30;04 - 00;36;33;22
Brian High
And so it's just a it's a different deal. Definitely for sure.

00;36;33;24 - 00;36;40;15
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. And even the activists in Niagara, in the lake in Niagara Falls, they are against dog ownership.

00;36;40;20 - 00;36;44;07
Brian High
Even I can't even it's just that.

00;36;44;10 - 00;36;47;02
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. Just unbelievable. Right.

00;36;47;04 - 00;36;54;15
Brian High
Yeah. The man's best friend and they don't want you know, that's insane. That's insane.

00;36;54;17 - 00;37;09;00
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. That's crazy. So what's your advice to those who want to stand up for animal agriculture? Animal ownership really? And property rights. What's your advice to people that just want to do something?

00;37;09;02 - 00;37;39;29
Brian High
Well, obviously any type that we any type of media that we send out and anybody that supports that stuff, the numbers do matter. We have learned in this campaign and I know it sounds crazy, their email campaign that they blasted City Council with it is so bad that they will send they'll pick one city council member a week and it's it's every day they send them a just a diatribe of, you know, all false information about how bad our industry is and all this stuff, and they just will not quit.

00;37;39;29 - 00;37;56;02
Brian High
And it goes for a week. And then they go to the next one, and then it goes for a week and it goes to the next one. And so at some point in time, you know, obviously they do have to respond. So for for us to combat that, we have just tried to level set the playing field every chance we've had, the opportunity.

00;37;56;02 - 00;38;19;28
Brian High
And any time that we have needed numbers, we need people to go in there and definitely give their opinion. That's a big one. Residency is another one. So like when, when, the folks from Chicago come down and they want to say that we need to ban horse drawn carriages, and we try to tell people that that's not very popular with your own constituents in your own districts, that has a real has the real meaning.

00;38;19;28 - 00;38;42;16
Brian High
It really hits home to those city council members because, I mean, let's just call it like it is. The city council members don't really care about horse drawn carriages. What they care about is votes. And when they hear their constituents saying, this is not very popular, even though they're, you know, making this an issue, then they have to listen to that, because if you do a lot of unpopular things, then you will not be voted back into office.

00;38;42;16 - 00;39;09;20
Brian High
And so it does help when people do stand up and say, I'm in your district and I am not for this, and it makes a it makes a big statement. And then legislatively, I think that we can't sleep. We have to be awake on what is going on that we think could never happen. Right. So everything that Mindy talks about, about the proactive legislation that she does, I'll bet she's 75% of that stuff.

00;39;09;23 - 00;39;28;10
Brian High
When when I was learning where we're at in this playing field, I never thought that stuff could even happen. Like, I didn't even think it was even possible for us to ban, like, certain animals doing certain things in certain places because I didn't know we were at that place. And people are just kind of they're kind of asleep to it, to be honest with you.

00;39;28;13 - 00;39;52;26
Brian High
And like I said, it's that one shift. If you make that one shift, then it makes it easier for all the other stuff to fall. And, you know, like for, for example, here in Texas, the cities of Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Dallas and El Paso, they have all signed an amicus curiae with the state of Texas. And they're there against this 2127 House bill that we have.

00;39;52;26 - 00;40;24;11
Brian High
Right. So they've all teamed up together to if it ever does come to court in an appeals court, they're all together fighting it as one group, these five big cities, and they're all connected and the premise of 2127, I can see why a city entity would not want the state to tell them what to do. But on the flip side of that, if the cities are not irresponsible with their policies, then they don't need the state to maybe govern them like a child and say, hey, you can't do that to people.

00;40;24;11 - 00;40;44;16
Brian High
These are hardworking people that aren't doing anything wrong. These are lawful, lawful businesses that you're just at the stroke of a pen saying you don't need to be a business anymore, and people need to be awake to this, that it is going on all around us, not just in agriculture, but since, you know, obviously we're in agriculture, we see that my uncle is a commercial farmer in Minnesota.

00;40;44;16 - 00;41;05;13
Brian High
So a lot of the things that you all talk about in your podcast, I see, I mean, he he farms just like folks in your area do. So I see the same things that you talk about. And again, you talk to somebody that isn't following it. They can't believe this is going on. And that's that would be my recommendation is just don't be asleep to what's going on and speak up.

00;41;05;13 - 00;41;10;26
Brian High
When you have the opportunity to give your voice. It's important and it does matter.

00;41;10;28 - 00;41;26;14
Chrissy Wozniak
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So my last question for you is why have you taken on this fight? You know, you could have just, you know, gotten into a different business or, you know, lay low, but you are on the front lines. And so what drives that?

00;41;26;16 - 00;42;01;21
Brian High
I think that initially speaking, when we started, when we started in in this is fight, if you will. I was shocked to see the support that we had from folks that I didn't expect to be in support. And when other there's other operators in my area. Okay, so I'm not the only operator in Dallas, but all those people kind of look at me and, and another guy that has helped me and quite a bit, that's been in business there for a long time in Dallas, and it was pretty obvious to me that if I didn't take on the fight, nobody was going to you, and that there in and of itself was going

00;42;01;21 - 00;42;17;28
Brian High
to be a win for the for the vegan group. And I was not willing to just lay down and do that. It's not in my DNA. I'm on bread like that. And I just couldn't I couldn't turn my back on it and it wasn't for them. Obviously, I've done this for 30 years, so I obviously there's a body of work that you're somewhat proud of, right?

00;42;17;28 - 00;42;36;05
Brian High
You've you've established yourself. You've done this. I mean, the premise of where we are right now, we're we're going to be competing here at the Oklahoma State Fair with folks that are going to come down and work for us in Christmas time. I mean, it's, it's a community that's not just based in Dallas. And I've had folks like in Kansas, which we have a lot of contacts in Kansas.

00;42;36;05 - 00;42;59;27
Brian High
They tell me straight out, you can't let Texas fall if Texas falls. Kansas is right behind you. Oklahoma is right behind you, and Nebraska's right behind you. And and there's probably some truth to that. If I had to say is you get one state like Texas, Kansas and all these other agricultural states in the Midwest, you know, in the in the heartland of the United States, they probably fall right behind them.

00;42;59;29 - 00;43;11;26
Brian High
So I don't I don't see myself as a big as a big cog in that wheel. But but I can definitely say that I, I don't feel like I'm ready to back down from from this here in Dallas. No way, no way.

00;43;11;28 - 00;43;32;01
Chrissy Wozniak
I'll thank you for what you do. And and hopefully we can keep building numbers and, and find our voices and understand that this this this affects every human being that eats food. Right? So it's all of us. Yeah. Just a few reminders. Yeah. Just then we need food.

00;43;32;03 - 00;43;32;19
Brian High
Yeah.

00;43;32;21 - 00;43;37;28
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah, yeah. So thank you so much. Where can people find you? And, and.

00;43;38;00 - 00;43;56;10
Brian High
You know, anybody can reach out to us on our website at DFW carriages.com. We're pretty easy to find. And then if you're wanting to follow the fight in Dallas, there's a Facebook page called Save Dallas Horse Carriages. We keep all the information is that story develops, it stays out there. All the false propaganda we pointed out, we call it out.

00;43;56;12 - 00;44;14;14
Brian High
One thing that we did here for a while, we did this for a while with the, with the protesters. We started taking their videos and using them as, examples of how good our drivers were driving and how proper they were as far as posture and lane placement and safety and all these things. And they quit posting videos of this was pretty funny.

00;44;14;14 - 00;44;24;22
Brian High
We used their own propaganda against them, so it was pretty cool. But anyway, but you can go to savings garages to, to find stuff about us or DFW carriages, and you can reach out to me and get me anytime.

00;44;24;24 - 00;44;30;03
Chrissy Wozniak
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. Glad I could track you down again so we could finish the conversation.

00;44;30;05 - 00;44;33;25
Brian High
Okay. Thank you, thank you. Look forward to seeing the, podcast, the finished product.

00;44;33;27 - 00;45;01;10
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. And thanks to, Mindy Patterson and the, cavalry group, and, and also to Stephanie for joining us today. And talking about this issue. And then also thanks to everyone who's watching or listening. If you want to learn more, all of the links are provided in the show notes. And don't forget to subscribe to North American Tech Spotlight on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, listen notes, or, if you prefer, Video we're also on Rumble or Telegram channels and really wherever you listen to podcasts.

00;45;01;14 - 00;45;04;12
Chrissy Wozniak
If you liked the episode, I would love it if you shared it. Have a great day!