The Missing Link in Farm Profitability – with Brenda Heymer

Season 5: Episode 208

In this episode of North American Ag Spotlight, Chrissy Wozniak sits down with Brenda Heymer, owner of Heymer Management Accounting in Amarillo, Texas. With a deep-rooted background in agriculture and over three decades of accounting experience, Brenda shares her passion for helping producers move beyond traditional, tax-based accounting to embrace management accounting rooted in accrual principles. Through a thoughtful and in-depth conversation, Brenda explains how aligning production data with financials gives producers a more accurate view of their cost of production and overall business performance.

Chrissy and Brenda discuss the critical need for better financial visibility, especially in a time of rising input costs and uncertain market conditions. Brenda breaks down how management accounting differs from typical bookkeeping—focusing on internal decision-making tools rather than tax returns—and why accrual accounting is essential to track commodity-level performance across production years. She also highlights CenterPoint Accounting for Agriculture, a robust Red Wing Software tool built specifically for ag producers that allows for detailed inventory, allocations, and side-by-side cash and accrual reporting—something QuickBooks simply can't offer.

Brenda walks listeners through the conversion process from QuickBooks to CenterPoint, noting how her team goes deep into their clients’ data to lay the foundation for better decision-making. She shares real-world examples of how clients have uncovered inefficiencies at specific ranches or crop fields, and how this information helps them project cash flow, streamline operations, and manage risk more effectively. Chrissy and Brenda also talk about the challenges of data overload in modern ag and how Brenda’s team helps transform that raw data into usable, actionable insights through personalized meetings and scenario planning.

Throughout the episode, Brenda shares not only her technical knowledge but also her heart for agriculture. She challenges producers to step out of their comfort zones and embrace their roles as business owners, encouraging them to build teams and delegate tasks outside their core strengths. Brenda emphasizes that having better information leads to better decisions and that it’s okay not to know everything—but vital to get the right help.

Whether you’re just starting to explore accrual-based accounting or are ready to overhaul your financial systems, Brenda offers sound advice for producers through 2025 and beyond. Her mission is clear: to change agriculture for the better, one accurate report at a time. 

To learn more about Brenda and her services, visit www.heymermanagement.com.

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Transcript

00;00;21;14 - 00;00;46;12
Chrissy Wozniak
Hi, and welcome to North American Ag Spotlight. I'm Chrissy Wozniak. I am so excited to welcome today's guest, because we're diving into a topic that's often overlooked, but it's absolutely essential to the success and resiliency of every farming operation. Your numbers, not just the ones you file with the IRS, but the numbers that tell the real story of your business's performance, the cost of your production, and what's floating or sinking your bottom line.

00;00;46;14 - 00;01;06;27
Chrissy Wozniak
We're also going to talk about how it's okay, and even smart to let go of the reins on certain parts of your operation so that you can focus on what you do best. From Amarillo, Texas, I would like to welcome the owner of Hamer Management Accounting, Brenda Hamer. Welcome, Brenda. Thank you so much for being here. And, you know, I've really been looking forward to this conversation.

00;01;06;29 - 00;01;17;15
Brenda Heymer
Thank you so much for having me. Courtesy. I'm so excited about this. I just enjoy what I do so much, and I want to tell everybody about it.

00;01;17;17 - 00;01;25;03
Chrissy Wozniak
That's awesome. So let's start with your background. So how did you get into this career and especially how did you get into AG.

00;01;25;05 - 00;01;50;02
Brenda Heymer
Oh, gosh, the egg roots. You know, just from what I could walk, basically. You know, grew up around horses and, stock shows. I rodeos when I was younger. My dad was a veterinarian. He had some farmland and some cattle. So, grew up in a small town, Vernon, Texas. It's a north Texas kind of sits between Amarillo and Dallas.

00;01;50;05 - 00;02;23;12
Brenda Heymer
So, just ag was the community. So that that goes for my roots. Ended up going to Texas A&M. Everyone thought I was going to be a vet, and I never, ever wanted to be a vet. And honestly, it was about five years after I graduated with ag economics degree and I was working for Texas Agrilife, and working with, with some of their, I wouldn't say clients, but people that would come to the, the programs that we produced and really, really enjoyed that.

00;02;23;12 - 00;02;54;23
Brenda Heymer
I started on a project called Farm Assistance, which is still in existence here. And, Texas, it's basically a projection analysis. And loved it. Loved the didn't realize I liked numbers. In fact, in college, I didn't do too well in my accounting classes because it didn't interest me at the time. So about five years after I graduated, I was, talking with one of my mentors, and he said, you know, your idea sounds great, but I think you need to go back and get your CPA license.

00;02;54;23 - 00;03;22;19
Brenda Heymer
And not knowing what I was getting into. I just drove in and, got my I got my license. I had to go back to school to get some more classes in order to sit for the exam. But you know, the, the process of that and then all of you know what I've done since then, through agrilife, through public accounting, through controller work for large farming operations and some feed yards.

00;03;22;22 - 00;03;52;14
Brenda Heymer
I finally landed here about four years ago and dove in and wanted to, work more directly with producers rather than that corporate environment that I'm so thankful for what I learned at those organizations, because it takes, you know, what I thought I knew with agriculture to more of a professional level. So, and I really think Aggie's gotten so big that they have to be professional in their business, ventures.

00;03;52;14 - 00;04;17;04
Brenda Heymer
So, that's kind of how I finally landed here. I've always done what I do, even in the public accounting terms. I never did taxes or audit. I've always, focused on cost of production analysis for farmers and ranchers exclusively. So, it the timing was finally or I and I've just enjoyed every minute of it.

00;04;17;06 - 00;04;32;26
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah, yeah. And it's such a good time right now for producers to embrace this, you know, with obviously cost of inputs, low margins, you know, possible tariffs coming like it's a time when really, really dig into your business and find those efficiencies right.

00;04;32;28 - 00;05;04;23
Brenda Heymer
Oh absolutely. There's never a bad time. There's an honestly when markets and policies demanded it's kind of too late. The production cycle is so long in agriculture that you really need to be thinking years in advance, and planning strategies. And I don't feel like you can you can plan those strategies sufficiently. If you don't understand your foundation of what's actually happening in the business and so many don't.

00;05;04;25 - 00;05;13;20
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. Great points. So can you explain what management accounting is and how it differs from traditional accounting or tax prep.

00;05;13;22 - 00;05;49;12
Brenda Heymer
So management accounting is focused on more of the internal decision processes. It's it's reports designed for making decisions in a nutshell. Ultimately the foundation is matching principle. You match the revenues presented on the income statement with the cost of the inputs and actually produce that revenue. So there has to be, you know, accrual accounting is is the foundation versus tax and or cash based accounting, which is what you most people need for tax preparation.

00;05;49;14 - 00;06;14;11
Brenda Heymer
And cash accounting just doesn't tell you what you need to know. Everything is kind of lumped together generally. So a lot of producers take their information outside the system and use spreadsheets. And that's very difficult to reconcile. And so they have a good idea. I love it when my reports land where their gut tells them it should, but now I can help them prove it and then also produce their cash accounting.

00;06;14;11 - 00;06;20;15
Brenda Heymer
That's easy. You know, on the side it's the accrual accounting that that is tough, right.

00;06;20;15 - 00;06;24;06
Chrissy Wozniak
So why is accrual accounting so critical for producers.

00;06;24;08 - 00;06;59;12
Brenda Heymer
Because it it actually records the performance of the business it. And then to another level it reports the performance of an individual commodity by three year or so. Where your cash basis accounting has to do with a calendar year generally, or a fiscal year. Management accounting and accrual accounting basically takes your production year. So in the case of cattle you're generally looking at more than, you know, two years if you're raising those calves and retaining them through stocker feature phases.

00;06;59;15 - 00;07;23;14
Brenda Heymer
And for many crops it could be more than two years. Well, more than a calendar year. For instance, you know, down here in Texas, we plant our winter crops in the fall. And and so those costs associated with that we eat or traditionally should be then carried over to the next calendar year to be matched when that revenue is actually produced.

00;07;23;17 - 00;07;32;01
Chrissy Wozniak
Well, that makes sense. And I would guess most producers would use QuickBooks and I can't imagine that cutting it. So what do you recommend?

00;07;32;04 - 00;07;59;16
Brenda Heymer
I center point accounting for agriculture. It's a red wing software product and it is built for agriculture. In fact, the owner of the company is a past president of the Farm Financial Standards Council. So very hard to follow those, guidelines as suggested by the council. So, it it speaks the language. It is extremely in-depth.

00;07;59;18 - 00;08;25;00
Brenda Heymer
It can be used as simply as you want me used. It simply is QuickBooks. If you don't want, you know, further information. But we push it pretty hard and we use it on a, I wouldn't say full accrual, but it is right there. You know, as close to full approval is as we can get, it holds production information where QuickBooks does not.

00;08;25;03 - 00;08;55;19
Brenda Heymer
It very, very easily handles cash and accrual accounting. You can even hold your what the inventories are phenomenal in there. So all your products that you're using to produce your crops, you can hold those inventories by product and quantity. And as well as cattle, people don't realize how difficult it is to, get solid cattle inventories because they move around, they die.

00;08;55;19 - 00;09;21;17
Brenda Heymer
They, you know, sometimes you lose them if you have canyons or a lot of garages or something like that. So, it it's very solid on the, inventory system. There's so much you can do, allocations within the system, for overhead, which QuickBooks can't even come close to doing. So there's just a plethora of things, that it can do that QuickBooks cannot.

00;09;21;20 - 00;09;38;15
Brenda Heymer
And yet it's American based. And when you call for support and they expect you to call for support if you need it, you talk to someone. I like to tell people the only accent you're going to hear is Minnesota accent. So and I want to talk about that too. It's great.

00;09;38;18 - 00;09;55;05
Chrissy Wozniak
So hell yeah, that's good to know. These days. So how would a producer go about making that switch. Is it something they can do themselves? Is obviously that's why you exist is to help with this, right?

00;09;55;07 - 00;10;20;11
Brenda Heymer
Yeah. I would say that is one of our main benefits to our service is converting them. They can do it themselves. And the folks that quit at Point Post at Center Point are phenomenal to help them as much as they can. But we go very in-depth, we take their previous information from cyclic books and we back up to the beginning of their production year.

00;10;20;11 - 00;10;44;25
Brenda Heymer
So, we had a client last summer. I think, they engaged with us maybe around July, and their production year started in October. So we backed up and posted all of the invoices and all of the transactions from October forward so that they would have a good base year. Because, you know, again, production cycles are so long.

00;10;44;27 - 00;11;16;01
Brenda Heymer
If you don't do that, you've lost an entire, you know, year's worth of data. So, you can't really just import it. There's certain things you can import from QuickBooks, like your vendor list, your customer list and that kind of thing. But there's just so many more fields of data that QuickBooks doesn't have that the import process, feel is not as good as just digging in and posting everything again, because it gives you repetition, it gives you practice.

00;11;16;01 - 00;11;45;05
Brenda Heymer
It helps for from our standpoint, if we do the conversion, it helps us to understand their business a lot more, which means we work very closely with them. In the beginning we have weekly meetings. So, any questions that we have, we can, you know, ask them at that meeting further, get to know their business better. And then we also try to do an onsite visit and see it with our own eyes so that we can, you know, better grasp.

00;11;45;05 - 00;12;08;03
Brenda Heymer
And that always is always beneficial. And all of our clients are remote. I mean, I have one in the Texas Panhandle, two, two in the Texas Panhandle. So, you know, there is the cloud version with center point. It doesn't look any different than the desktop. It's exactly the same. It's just hosted there in RDP. So, it's it's extensive.

00;12;08;03 - 00;12;30;12
Brenda Heymer
Yes, I can do it. But, I feel like money is well spent to have us do it and. Right, we run as opposed to help them, you know, with their consistency going forward. And then if they want to engage us to continue with them, we can we can do that on one of whatever level they choose. If they want to do the daily work, they can.

00;12;30;12 - 00;12;35;26
Brenda Heymer
And then we can come in and help with the allocations and the reporting stuff.

00;12;35;28 - 00;12;53;05
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah, I really like the thought of being able to track each commodity separately. And when you think about your own clients you've worked with, what are some of the surprising inefficiencies you found when you're really focusing on commodity, not just the big picture money and money out?

00;12;53;08 - 00;13;29;15
Brenda Heymer
Well, I guess, I can pull on one of my more recent clients. You know, just evaluate so they have, you know, quite a few stockers in. They're the stocker cattle are at different ranches. So we can evaluate each ranch individually and look and know what it's costing them per head day at each ranch. So when they kind of see on paper which range is performing and which ranch isn't, then they can develop their SOPs for a ranch to have more consistency across their ranches.

00;13;29;18 - 00;13;39;15
Brenda Heymer
And, you know, point those inefficiencies out a lot, a lot easier than everything just being dumped into one big pile.

00;13;39;17 - 00;13;44;26
Chrissy Wozniak
Oh, yeah, I love that. And then what about for crops as well? Can you do you know soybean clients?

00;13;44;26 - 00;14;09;17
Brenda Heymer
Yeah. In fact, center point, it is really better built out for crops because they are in Minnesota. You know, I think most of their customers are farmers. And so we kind of have gotten more on the cattle land. But for our farmers, we have several of those as well. This program can go all the way down to the particular field.

00;14;09;20 - 00;14;36;19
Brenda Heymer
So if they marry that the financial data with maybe their tractor data, you know, they're spraying records and so forth, they can overlay those costs and really dial in on, you know, which field is efficient, which isn't which. Honestly, most people are just going to they're going to take those inefficient fields with the efficient ones just because they need more of that volume and they don't want to lose their leases.

00;14;36;19 - 00;14;57;21
Brenda Heymer
If it's, if it's a field this particular, you know, maybe their leaseholder has several of their places, they're still going to take those inefficient ones, but at least I can pointed it out and maybe put less resources on it if they choose. They can just make better decisions on a field by field basis as well as a cattle lot.

00;14;57;22 - 00;15;00;15
Brenda Heymer
By what basis?

00;15;00;18 - 00;15;27;10
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah, that makes sense. And, another reason why this sounds so great is that there is a lot of data over overload. Now. Everything is providing data. Your tractors, your implements, everything is throwing all these numbers at you. So how does your system, I guess I guess it would, it would give them reports and then you have these meetings as well to kind of take that data and make some sense out of it.

00;15;27;10 - 00;15;28;06
Chrissy Wozniak
Right.

00;15;28;08 - 00;15;53;23
Brenda Heymer
Well, that's exactly right. For instance, one of our clients, once we got the cost of production information for the base year, we then projected that out for 24 months. So, you know, you can you can mold that around. Now, that report is not within the system. We did have to download that. And you know, we built a scenario analysis where they can mess with the input prices.

00;15;53;23 - 00;16;18;27
Brenda Heymer
Or you know this this particular one was cattle. So maybe they had less head days or more at a particular ranch. You know, just once you have the data, then you can easily manipulate it to do some good projections. And you're right, you do have data overload. So, you know, a lot of people might say, you know, wow, this is one more complicated step.

00;16;19;00 - 00;16;44;04
Brenda Heymer
But if if you have production information but you don't marry that with financial information, then, you know, I, I'm not sure if you can tell where that point of efficiency is. And that's really what we're after. We're after the highest yield that we can get with the lowest cost input to still produce that yield. And that's that point of efficiency.

00;16;44;06 - 00;17;09;02
Chrissy Wozniak
That's amazing. And to what kind of myths or misconceptions or misunderstandings do you encounter around farm financials? You know it. It's different because it's a family business usually, but it's big numbers. There's a lot of debt. There's a lot, but it's still treated as a family business in most cases. So so what are some of those things that you kind of have to break through?

00;17;09;04 - 00;17;31;22
Brenda Heymer
I would say the first thing that came to mind is that people say, you know, maybe the financials aren't important. You know, I really have heard that, that it's not important to analyze their cost of production because they're going to continue to do what they're what they've done for so many decades. I mean, that's probably not a myth.

00;17;31;22 - 00;18;23;03
Brenda Heymer
That's more of a truth. But, like, oh, myth that, you know, that, okay, here's a good myth. Maybe they think they're a low cost producer, and they might be from a direct endpoint standpoint, from a direct input standpoint, but then their overhead, you know, maybe 60% of those costs. And honestly, that's what we're finding is that when people evaluate only their direct costs that see chemical fertilizer and they don't take into account the machinery, the labor, you know, the new furnishings that the housekeeper, whatever it is that you're spending your business dollars on, you know, that that has to be included or else, you know, you're telling yourself a lie, or you're telling

00;18;23;03 - 00;18;33;25
Brenda Heymer
yourself a big myth that your cost of production is at this low point, and it's actually 60% higher than what you thought, right?

00;18;34;02 - 00;18;45;21
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah, that makes sense. And so for any producer that's listening right now and is feeling overwhelmed, what's the very first step they should take toward better financial visibility?

00;18;45;23 - 00;19;16;13
Brenda Heymer
I would say, communication. So people on their their internal team need to be on board with what's important and how that happens. They all need to understand what power information has and then communicate that back to not only each other, the management group. But sometimes I think it's important to to communicate that to the employees on whatever level is applicable to them.

00;19;16;16 - 00;19;42;03
Brenda Heymer
And then I would say the next step is don't be afraid to reach out to someone who does this professionally. You know, I've learned a lot of tricks in the four years that we've been, doing this, and I know what to watch out for. I'm learning every single day, but at least I can help teach people how to avoid the mistakes that I've made.

00;19;42;05 - 00;20;04;26
Brenda Heymer
So, And how to do this quickly and still get the information that you want and that you need without analyzing the things that really you're not going to change anyway. So I would say, you know, if this is something that interests the audience, you know, they could reach out to me, we can have a discussion, we can show, you know, what it can do.

00;20;04;26 - 00;20;25;12
Brenda Heymer
And then, you know, you can always back off from there. Maybe you want to start slower and grow into more detail because I think, honestly, it's a probably a big mistake to just get the full Nelson right off the bat because there's just so much to do. And so much data that, you know, you can get overwhelmed pretty easily.

00;20;25;12 - 00;20;42;07
Brenda Heymer
So I can help guide them through how to start simply, but still lay that foundation to have even more detail later that is still comparable to where they start. So, I think that that would be a really good start.

00;20;42;09 - 00;20;59;00
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah. Great advice. And switching gears a little bit, one of your other passions is education. So even as you said earlier, you weren't interested in accounting in school, but you have a passion for making accounting fun. So how do you do that?

00;20;59;03 - 00;21;24;12
Brenda Heymer
It's not easy. Yeah. Yeah, I think people see accounting and they just throw up the wall. So yeah, you know, I try to make it real and applicable to them. Try to stay away from, you know, some of the terminology when I, when I can, when I can presents something in a way that is, more understandable.

00;21;24;13 - 00;21;46;22
Brenda Heymer
In other words, don't say debit and credit. You might say increase, decrease. At some point you have to bring in debit and credit, but maybe not right off the bat. So, I think people enjoy hearing the stories of, some of my clients and, and what we do and how it happens. And, so I think that helps on the education process.

00;21;46;24 - 00;22;06;19
Brenda Heymer
But honestly, if if somebody has zero interest in this, they are not going to want to be educated on it. And, you know, so it's kind of one of those things when I work for Agrilife, you know, we had a whole group, I think there was 18 in this program, that, that we were putting on.

00;22;06;19 - 00;22;30;00
Brenda Heymer
And the whole idea was to create a management plan. And part of that management plan was the management accounting, which I taught. So, you know, I would do things like, throw candy, ask questions. You know what? Whatever it is that keeps them away because it's some of it can be pretty boring until you get to the output, until you see the reports.

00;22;30;03 - 00;22;46;20
Brenda Heymer
Then they say, okay, this this could be fun to look at. One of our clients is I love. I love to eat the sausage, but I hate to make the sausage. So, you know, he wants the reports, but he doesn't really care how it happens.

00;22;46;23 - 00;22;55;12
Chrissy Wozniak
Yes. Yeah, that's a really good point. So what's your advice to the American producer through 2025 and beyond?

00;22;55;14 - 00;23;32;04
Brenda Heymer
Step out of your comfort zone. You know, typically they're most comfortable on the production end. But you got to remember that you're also a business owner. And, if you want to continue in, in that business and, you know, continue that legacy that probably, you know, was passed down potentially, or that you hope to pass down to, next generations, you you really have to develop that business mindset and then also understand that it's okay that you don't know each segment of the business individually.

00;23;32;07 - 00;24;01;14
Brenda Heymer
There are things that you're not suited for, and that's okay. Maybe you're you don't want to market, okay. Hire someone who does, you know, get a good team assembled. Don't think you have to do it all yourself. Just, interview. See? See who you know, shares your common goal and see how that fits into your business. But build your team.

00;24;01;16 - 00;24;08;20
Chrissy Wozniak
Yeah, that's that's remarkable advice, for sure. And where can people find out more about your services?

00;24;08;23 - 00;24;34;17
Brenda Heymer
Hire management accounting. So my website is dot Hymer management.com. They can also call (940) 357-9777. And that's my cell phone. And or they can reach me via email Brenda at Hymer management.com. And that is h e MDR or Hymer.

00;24;34;20 - 00;24;48;13
Chrissy Wozniak
Wonderful. And one last question for you. You know, you through your passion, what is the thing that gets you out of bed? What what mission does God have you on, that makes you this this passionate about what you do?

00;24;48;15 - 00;25;14;18
Brenda Heymer
I would say my mission is to. And this sounds very lofty, but to change agriculture, to provide information for people to make a better decision. And what makes me so excited about my job are the people I get to work with. Not just, the young ladies that work for me. They're amazing, but also my clients.

00;25;14;18 - 00;25;33;27
Brenda Heymer
I just really adore my client. And they do to JC and Gracie, which I, you know, those are the two girls that work for me. They, they are just phenomenal. They love what they do and they have a passion for it. So it's fun to go to work when you really enjoy what you do and who you work with.

00;25;33;29 - 00;25;40;07
Chrissy Wozniak
I agree, that's great. Well, thank you so much, Brenda, for joining me. We're definitely going to have to do this again.

00;25;40;10 - 00;25;44;01
Brenda Heymer
Thank you so much for having me. I've really enjoyed it.

00;25;44;03 - 00;26;00;24
Chrissy Wozniak
And to all who are watching, you're listening. If you want to learn more, the links are provided in the show notes. Don't forget to subscribe to North American Spotlight on Spotify, Apple, Amazon listen notes If you prefer a video, you can find us on Rumble or Telegram, or really wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you like the episode, I would love it if you shared it.

00;26;00;27 - 00;26;02;26
Chrissy Wozniak
Have a great day! Thank you.