1 Corinthians Discussion | Chapter 7 | Pastor Jamey, Kelly, Shaun & Jodi

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Transcript

Hot Weather Banter And Summer Dread

SPEAKER_05 0:10

Well, good afternoon morning, a hundred degrees outside. Okay, good rest. Good. Awful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I wondered if you were still happy because it's really hot.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Listen, you love this thrive.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

She's wearing a sweatshirt. It's 100 degrees outside.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

What about the humidity though?

SPEAKER_04 0:29

She'll wear the sweatshirt on the front porch in like this.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I'm like, you want sweat dropping down your butt? No.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

That's my favorite. Then why don't you like cleaning out? You could have this all the time.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Well, it's work, Dodie. No, I don't mind that. But okay, I do mind though, like if I just wash my hair and then you get sweaty. Sweaty. I do mind that. But I've learned to just blow dry it out. Ew!

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Your own salt spray. Yeah. Yeah. Natural.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Unfortunately for me, like when I sweat, you know it because I am disgusting. Yeah, I'm not disgusting and smelly. Boy, you're just smelly. I like a good sweat though. Like I love Monday. I was in I was in the sun all day doing flower stuff, garden stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

You're doing flower stuff?

SPEAKER_04 1:19

Well, garden stuff. Oh. Garden bed?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Oh yeah, you placed one. Yeah. Well, it's up to you now. Gardening.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

It's up to you. I put it in place.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

It's a tough time to plant things.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Oh, straight sun. Well, you know, I'd more than a sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

No, we're not planting. He just had to go put it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I'm not planting.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Landscaped it. But it was strict sun. I was sweating like crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

I'm in mourning though, because once July 4th comes, everything starts to me you might as well go back to school. It might as well snow. Oh, stop. The summer's just over. So dramatic. I know. That's how I feel. I'm like going down. It's on the downhill slope.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

This is a girl that's, you know, after July 4th going to Jamaica, going to Alabama. Oh, you are?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah, that's fine, but I know it's coming to an end. Like my morning process starts after July 4th.

SPEAKER_05 2:07

It's all right. Your morning process stuff. Why?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah, because school's gonna start again.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

So you're starting July 4th?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Six weeks. School doesn't start till August 19th. School supplies are already up. I'm so glad you guys are responding this way.

SPEAKER_05 2:18

Welcome to my work.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

It's so sad. I know there's a mom out there that feels me. It's so sad. Not in this room.

SPEAKER_05 2:22

It's not. Listen, you still have 30 days to hold. You're good. Maybe start August 1st, your morning routine.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Be where you are. Be where you are.

SPEAKER_05 2:30

Be where you are. Enjoy this moment.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It's gonna be cold again. Someday. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Well, we live in the Midwest, so it's not until like October.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

It's really not until like January or February.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

It's like tomorrow the twins are gonna graduate. We have 10 years, so uh downward slope. No, actually, we're still going upward.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Oh my god. We're downward there upward.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Wow.

Why Paul Talks About Sex

SPEAKER_05 2:55

Now for the matters you wrote about.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Yes. Now for the matters you wrote about.

SPEAKER_05 3:01

Here we go. Regarding the questions. Regarding the questions. Let's talk about. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

So that's what I was like, what did they write in their letter? We're not having sex with our wives. He's like, okay, now wait a minute. Now what you said in your letter.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

Oh you just jumped right in, didn't she?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

What was the thing?

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Folks, if you didn't know this, we're in 1 Corinthians chapter 7.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Well, then you know the cynics and the stoics. What'd you say? Go ahead. The cynics and the stoics were present there. And so there was like two ways of living. One was like live in your body, and the other was like, no, we're gonna be outside of our body. We're gonna the asceticism. We're not gonna eat this food, we're not gonna eat good food, we're not gonna enjoy our wives, our husbands, like that's sinful. Sinful.

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Even as like married couples inside of marriage, right? So that's why he's saying we're not talking about outside of marriage. I mean we are, but we're not. Yes. Come.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Fulfill your marriage duties. Because it's not sinful. It's not simple. So they must have.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

But then there was another train of thought that was like, listen, our spirits and our bodies are separate. So no matter what physical thing I do to this body, it doesn't matter because it doesn't affect my spirit. And he's like, Well, that's not right either. You're and embodied, your spirit, soul, and body. It does affect what you do with your body. Mm-hmm. Well, I think we're just gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Which he addressed at the end of chapter six.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Yeah, but like overall the still theme, the first you know, seven verses that I think he's constantly hitting on, which I think is important, is that hey, sexual intimacy belongs within the marriage. Like husbands and wives are to serve one another in in this way. Like this is important to always come back to because I think it's culturally, you know, this is the you know, do I need to be married? Should I be married? Like so, yeah, he is addressing, you know, you know, first three, a husband should fulfill, wife you should fulfill, like within the marriage. But it's also still coming back to like, hey, we're not going to engage in sexual morality. Love me to say each man should have his own wife, each woman should have her own husband. Like uh again, like marriage is good. It's God's gift. Like all of these things, we see this as a metaphor all throughout scripture. So like he's constantly, while he's making side points, it's still the point of we're we're not gonna participate in sexual immorality. This is what that is. He's defining it constantly.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Well, in this culture, too, like it was totally permissible to have a wife and to have a mistress. Totally permissible. And he's like, no, it stays within the bounds of marriage. Yeah, sexual immorality is a boundary.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

We have to remember that he's talking to or if they're worshiping at the temple. Non-Jewish people now.

Corinth Culture And Sexual Confusion

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Yes, Gentiles, thank you. He's talking to Gentiles. So I always have to remind myself he's teaching the Corinthians how to be followers of Christ. Yes, because they don't have it. So I there's interesting stuff in my dictionary about um like the Greco-Roman background when it comes to sexual practices. One of their thoughts were that all humans were male. What'd you say? That all humans were made male. This is what their thought processes were.

SPEAKER_05 6:17

So you said white.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

And that and that though some of them suffered uh deformities, and then they would be disabled feminine. Pardon? Right. This is the culture they're living in, right? So that was like Plato, his I read this whole article. I didn't my I didn't see that. Right here. It's highlighted. This is how I mean this. So you have here you have the Greco Roman background, and then we'll have the Jesus. So everybody's male unless some traumatic thing happened to you and now you're female. No, no, no. Yeah, it it it goes into like how they thought it like how male semen was considered a piece of the soul, pure divine essence, torn from the male body, which then fused to deformed fleshly semen of the female and made you female. Like female was a deformed. We're gonna put a rating on this podcast is what they actually thought, right? And so then also that females were only made to be penetrated. Like this is what Paul's work, this is like this is the context of like what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Well, that's what I love because probably in this letter.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yes, like your body's not yours, but guess what? Your body is hers too. Like she has authority.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Is this the first time Paul's addressed that with women? Like, as far as authority goes, as far as like, hey, listen. Like this is a good question. I mean, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

I mean, would this have shocked the audience?

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Yes. Yes. Well, because then later also he's gonna talk about head coverings. It's like, no, you don't tell her whether she's covering her head or not. She has authority over her own head. And so the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 7:59

I I've quoted this a lot, like, babe, my body is yours, you know. Like I can't.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

I agree. Do with it whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

You know what I mean? And usually she says, you know what, we're fasting that right now.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

But you're supposed to mutually agree on that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

This is what else. So also the Roman thought process was that um that men were sexually uncontrollable and insatiable. So this assumption generated a primary virtue of sexuality for each sex. For women, this virtue became modesty to not to attempt to mitigate the men's sexual desire.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Is that why they trust the way they did? To mitigate that? Is that what you're saying? Well, this is like completely wrong.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Right. But so here's the other thing. This is a little, I mean, it's not mind-blowing because there's nothing new under the sun. Um, it becomes a practice for them to have sex with young boys. Yes. For men to have sex with young. And that's not sinful. This is again, this is Greco-Roman.

unknown 9:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

But because you have to build society, everybody gets to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

This is what's happening in culture, right? And they don't feel it's it's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

No, it's not wrong then because the the young mo the young boy was like the most desirable there was like the beauty, epitome of beauty in their culture. But then it says when they get married, then it was hard for men to stop that practice. Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

So when he's addressing inverts in chapter six, like male prostitutes.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Yes, so very prevalent.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

It's very prevalent because all those young boys became were abused.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

He comes to each man should have his own wife, each woman should have her own husband. We're not going to go out and have sex with everybody again. But it's mostly dominant uh probably geared towards the men. Because the women aren't lovers.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

They probably did, but not as like Yeah, but they needed the male.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Only if they were patrons, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

I mean, do you feel like the male was leading that though? Like you're gonna be my mistress.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Well, basically, it was like men were unbridled. They had people's society appetite, so there's self-control.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

I think he's coming and he's teaching slaves. Because you now belong to Christ. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

We have self-control. Which is why he says your body is not your own. You don't get to just do that anymore. Your body belongs to you. You're partnering Christ with the prostitute.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Which is why it makes sense. Two weeks ago when we were reading verse chapter four, when he says, like, like even pagans aren't doing what you're talking about with the stepmom. Yeah, like the what what is happening right now? Like what like they're not even doing that.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Because it's family codes, it's honor, it's shame. Like you're bringing dishonor to our family.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

I thought it was interesting that he talks about um, you know, when you've become a follower of Christ, like stay in

Stay In Your Calling

SPEAKER_00 10:55

the position that you are. Yeah. And so, like because this is the culture where like the gymnasium is present, where you like have the bathing pools and you're working out, you don't have clothes on. So people can see who the circumcised are and who the uncircumcised are. And so they're like, listen, if you're circumcised, you don't need to like undo it. So like they were reversing their circumcision.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Could you imagine having that done back in those days? I first of all being circumcised back in the day, but then they have a legitimate practice to uncircumcise you.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Where like I They said they just like pulled the skin down, like whatever skin was there to try to like be sanitary.

SPEAKER_05 11:42

We're definitely putting a rating on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

You guys should have not invited us into this room.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Oh, just more we haven't heard us more. How how many people am I gonna point to? Oh no, you should go take a look.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Listen, don't blame us, didn't believe it.

SPEAKER_05 11:57

I mean, obviously, because of culture, it's a mess, and he's trying to clean house, explaining to these.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Well, and the other thing is this now I'm a Christian

Marriage To An Unbeliever

SPEAKER_00 12:05

and I'm married to an unbeliever, so I want to get rid of that guy. And he says, no, don't do it. Stay in the position you are. If you're circumcised, stay circumcised. If you're uncircumcised, stay uncircumcised. If you're married to an unbeliever, stay married to your unbeliever.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

So we know we know from this that Paul is single, right? I mean, he gives us that understanding. Do you think that's a very good idea?

SPEAKER_06 12:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Well, I mean, he says in per se, it's better to stay unmarried just as I think it's died at some point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. He's I would agree. But he's been married at some point. Potentially. Possibly not married.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

I have read before that actually I've heard this about Jesus too, which obviously I don't believe Jesus was married, but that it would have been um a bad Jew to not be married.

SPEAKER_05 12:48

No, one hundred percent. That's why when he and at the end we talked about singleness. If you're in your twenties and a Jew and single, it was like sinful.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

It was bad, yeah. Of course, but 30 is still not it's you're not old to not be married still.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Which like third.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

I mean, like obviously we didn't we believe that about Joseph. I mean, he was older than Mary was. And so like so maybe it was more sinful for a woman not to be married at that age, or would have been.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I mean, yeah, because you gotta leave your father's like, we're not taking care of you. Somebody else needs to take care of you.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

So if that didn't happen for a woman, that was like something's wrong here.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Yeah, I don't know. I mean that's they would have given him away. It's a way to add wealth to your family. Right. To descendants.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

It sounds like if you hear of an of an unmarried woman in the New Testament, she's a widowed and she has money now and she doesn't remarry.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

So Paul kind of addresses that too. Interesting. I mean, interesting from a standpoint of like again, you're asking a sexually dominant culture to have one man and one woman come together.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

How cultural teaching them that this is the way if you're following Christ, this is the way it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

I mean, a whole new meaning of keeping it in your pants. I mean, right? I mean, like, if you're saying this about the men that they're unbridled and able to do all the things, it's like, oh yeah, I'm gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

I don't think our cult culture frowns upon it.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

Really? You think about you think about people that have affairs and in within the business and get fired. I know we've talked about that in the past and how they're like, I'm blown away that they got fired for that.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

And like, no, I'm saying like I feel like women still take the brunt of if you're a woman with lots of history, you take more of a shameful um society puts more shame on you than a man with a colorful past. We still look worse on women. We still we look worse because we still say, well, men are uncontrollable. We still put that, like I don't think we even teach in our church culture very much.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

Well, think about the double standards of the church.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

We should have self-control. Every Christian, no matter male or female, should have self-control when it comes to your sexual desires because God gives us self-control. Sure. So we don't just get to go and run amok. We understand that, but I think culturally we still don't teach it very long.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

You know, young men need to go and sew their wild oats.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

We're like, oh well, boys will be boys. No, boys won't be girls. Boys can have self-control.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:47

That's what I thought sounds like. That's the reason why he's saying, like you wonder how much of shame.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Don't keep it from each other. Like, I'm not going to have sex because of something happened to me as a young boy. Or like, or the the shame of sex and how it had been ruined based off of how I was raised. Now that I am married and trying to do this the right way, the godly way, with just my wife, I can't get away from 100%.

SPEAKER_05 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

The abuse that happened to me as a kid or my view of and so I just don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

The impression I'm getting is that now that you know Christ was here and he left and he's coming back, that he's so near that they're trying to live very holy lives and they're um trying to stay pure, and so anything of the earth is like dirty. They've gone the other extreme. Yeah, so they're like, you're not doing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Yeah, like almost very likely. Yeah. Do you think like still in culture, like I know we just touched on it, but like I feel like there's a stigma on people who want to be single, like culturally, like something's wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Like we think they're broken.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

Yes, like why why would you want to be single? And like I you feel like that's the kind of what he's talking about in this moment of in verse eight and nine, like, you know, I say those who aren't married and widows, it's better to stay married as just as I am. But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry, it's better married than a burden with lust. Like, do you think there was a stigma on culture of like if you were single, like something was wrong with you?

SPEAKER_05 17:22

Jewish culture for sure, right? I would think so.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Well, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 17:27

Because he because I think, I mean, one of the texts Paul says this is not a command from the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_05 17:33

He said that a couple of times. Because it doesn't really have suggesting this.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

In the old testament, there's not really any like clear depictions of um singleness versus married. Or when he says, Because if it was all about married, I have a command that comes not from me but from the Lord. Oh that oh wait, that's it was all about building the family unit.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

I'll speak the rest of you though, I do not have a direct command.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

I'm sorry, I should have highlighted it because I re that gives some examples of um of why he would have said that. And it goes back to the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_06 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I think for the work of the kingdom, you know, it's it's definitely easier to stay unmarried. But then he's also saying, like, unless you're a widow, if you divorce, stay unmarried because he's considering it adultery if anyone remarries after divorce. And so he's like, don't marry because then you're forcing them into adultery. Which is a whole different worldview. The other thing is that, you know, women, it's hard for me to imagine you know, there was such a there was uh upper class and then there was a whole lot of lower class. So what about all the women who were widows who were lower class, like they need to marry so that they can have someone to take care of them? Right. So that is interesting that why he says that they should remain unmarried, you know, if they don't have a covering, because this is still a patriarchal world where you need a man to Were you talking about verse 25? No, I'm still in your verse 80.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Because I know 25 he's talking about regarding your question about young women who are who are not yet married.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yes. Do you think so too? It would have been uh I would say giving the women some freedom to be like, oh, I don't have to marry. What are you saying? Right, but then what about your livelihood? Yeah. And the dad stay with your dad.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

No, you do.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

But we know women did work. I mean, I guess if you, you know, you were working and but it gave them a choice and an option. Because what if I I mean, I don't know, what if you did feel like I just want to go and serve the Lord? Right. And I don't which he addresses if you're married, you have to take care of your family responsibilities. If you're a man, you gotta take care of your wife. If you're a woman, you have to take care of your husband.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

I think that's why he throws that in there. Because if I'm a believing woman, he's like, you know what, I want to serve the Lord. Yeah. And he's like, Well, you're married. Right. And I know he's not a believer, but you need to stay with him.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Because what are the chances maybe he'll become a believer? Have you guys seen that? That was something I wanted to ask where you've seen families where the spouse came to faith much later.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

There was uh an older couple at Destiny. I don't remember their name, you two might remember their name. Um, he passed away. I wish I could remember who they were. So sweet, but he was not a believer, but he became a believer before he died.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Jerry and Ann's neighbors in Cahokia, it was the same. She came to church for I mean, I want to say decades. It was a long time without her husband. And then eventually he became a Christian and he was the sweetest man, but you just never saw it coming. Wow. Like she agonized over him for years and years and years. Wow. I mean, when he came to Christ, he was so lovely.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Yeah. The principal at Griggsby, the criters. She I mean, she would have people tell her, like, your husband is not a believer. It's okay for you to, you know. And she's like, I'm not leaving him. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Yeah. Which I would say that Paul would say, you're not a I mean, you shouldn't leave leave him just because he's not a believer.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Especially if he's willing to stay, right? Yes. Right. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's because these are probably new converts.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

They want to leave, probably. If your unbelieving spouse wants to leave, then let him leave. But then he also says Don't remarry. Yes. Don't remarry.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

And if he comes back, then take him. Yeah. Yes. That'd be tough.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

And that is interesting. Paul's giving this advice as a single man. True. You know? I mean we don't. know for sure if he married before.

SPEAKER_05 22:04

This is all true.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Why do you think he's saying like why do you think they shouldn't remarry? You know what I mean? Like I know he's saying it, but but what would be the reasoning she shouldn't go find a good Christian man?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah. I mean they everything that I saw was linking back to Jesus' words of of divorce like don't divorce and if you divorce you remain single. Sure. If you divorce and remarry you're entering into adultery now. Like really taking seriously let no one separate what God has joined together unless there is death and then if he dies you have to marry a believer. It is interesting because I can remember

Unequally Yoked And Shared Faith

SPEAKER_00 23:00

when Jeff was not a believer and seeing other Christian couples and being so jealous and like if anything happens I'll marry a Christian next time. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like how different it would be to be married to someone who followed Christ and then Jeff became one. But like you're you're in the I am it but I didn't do decades.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

Sure sure yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

And so then then the hard thing is is then so then you know that's been the fight with my kids dating unbelievers and be like well you know dad became a believer like well there's no guarantee you guys like how do you were not I mean following Christ.

SPEAKER_05 23:43

Yeah you were not following Christ and if you were following Christ you'd have been disobedient.

SPEAKER_04 23:47

Exactly exactly so that gets into the whole other you know unequally yoked and oxen and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yes missionary dating well and it's just like wise advice that we sometimes we don't want to listen to. You know like God didn't put he Paul's not saying that to like be a um punish punishment. Yeah. He's saying like listen it's wise to only yoke yourself with another believer. It's for your own benefit people.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

How often do we not see that though? It feels like punishment why why are you against me?

SPEAKER_05 24:28

Yeah well division doesn't create unity right?

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah. And we want to do what we want to do.

SPEAKER_05 24:32

Yeah division definitely doesn't create unity. So like if you intentionally put yourself in a situation where you're divided it's going to be very difficult. You know? And so not meaning that you're you know like you've damned yourself to hell or anything but like it's going to be I think some people won't realize that until you have children.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

And then once you're going to realize I like to ask people to you know like if now that you see and now that you understand what could someone have said to you that you would have heard like how could someone have said to you nothing.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

I don't think anything.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

Yeah I mean but I think what Paul is telling us too like is if you are married obviously like if you're living a Christ centered life moving the direction eventually it's it's going to move your spouse. Like he feels he says it pretty confidently I feel like it's going to move your spouse in a great direction.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Aaron Ross Powell wife whether you will save your husband or how do you know husband whether you will save your wife yeah even if it has an effect on your kids like staying together.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

Like your kids then will be holy like to a certain you know I mean like so it there's a a re a process that's happening you know kind of if they insist on leaving let them go.

SPEAKER_04 25:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Such cases the believing husband or wife is no longer bound to the other but he also talks as a slave like if you you're a slave, you become a believer you remain a slave.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

That has to be hard to hear but he does say if you can get your freedom go for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:53

It is wild that this is like the biggest chapter.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Trevor Burrus But he's not saying you know like hey if you are um from Corinth you don't need to like culturally convert to Judaism. You know like you don't have to change your culture. I know I read that in here like so when people were evangelizing you know Native Americans like no you need to be white. No you don't need to be white.

SPEAKER_04 26:18

You can worship Jesus clean up you should act like me. You know what I mean? Do you think we put a standard on people of like when they come to Christ and he addresses that chapter eight right like the legalism like don't start doing this or start doing that like eat what you want kind of deal.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

But only do it if it's you know if it if it goes against your brother's conscience to don't eat what you want.

SPEAKER_06 26:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

He's like I'm free to enslave myself to that. I'm free to say no to those things.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

That's how free it goes back to and I know he says it later like how often do we consider being a stumbling block to somebody else? Like you might be able to handle what we're talking about. But can your kids handle seeing you do it? Right. Because they might take it to an extreme.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

And that's where I think our culture doesn't do a good job because we're so individuals it's like it's you know I've got a consenting adult here we're fine. Yeah we don't consider others at all. Not at all.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Well we we talked about this we went out for our anniversary and the they brought as for our anniversary a glass of of wine or champagne or whatever. And it's like the the assumption is that I would want that.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

You know what I mean? Like instead of saying like hey Yeah Casey said tell them about your anniversary they'll bring you dessert instead they brought us wine or champagne whatever bubbles champagne but it was like the assumption like why not say why not say like hey what if I'm an alcoholic and suffering from alcoholism. That's what I'm saying. That's that was kind of my point in even asking the question of like we assume people are like us. Oh I would I wouldn't mind a glass of champagne so I'm assuming you're going to want that. And it's like but why not just come out and say like hey as your anniversary we would love to provide something for you. What would you like? And it was like no the assumption is you're going to drink this out there.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

So I'd like a free entree exactly actually a free steak.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

No we're going to give you stuff in the back. Yeah. Yeah. But I think which spoiler alert it all leads up to chapter nine and probably only because that's what I'm studying is like where he's saying like I'm going to give up all my rights if it's going to help my fellow believer my fellow um person become a believer. My rights are not important. And I think the reverse we do not do that in our no we're like these are my rights come up with me and

Mutual Desire And Serving Your Spouse

SPEAKER_02 28:50

join me in my rights. Yeah. And even I feel like that like even in seven him saying like wives you are to fulfill your husband's sexual desires and husbands you're supposed to fulfill your wife's sexual desires. It's like that's mind blowing information to them. Yes she can say it could be mind blowing information to us in 2026. Say more about that. Yeah why while you say oh yeah tell me about it. I'm just saying that I think a lot of contention in marriage Christian marriage probably does revolve around sex and if we had a greater understanding of the role of sex in marriage then there wouldn't be so much contention meaning Expectations or yeah that but like keeping unity. Yeah and what what is its purpose for like it's not just to it's not just there to fulfill a physical need.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

I think that's the other thing that was very which groundbreaking here is it's not just even about procreation which is all it is about here. Yes that's and this first century is like making a family growing the family.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

He's like listen no this is a gift from God like say yes to yourself too like you can abstain if you both agree but then come back together. Yes. So Satan won't tempt you and your lack of self-control which would have been to both the man and the woman not just to the man.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

But it's groundbreaking too that he says to the woman you can say no. Yeah. You can say yes like you have authority too.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:27

Which they didn't what is groundbreaking is that there's equality in marriage.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Yes there's a mutuality here even in the marriage so good to say yes. But it's like in Christian marriage right like we're ready to no I'm not because do you know how many times I hear that line a lot now you've heard he's redefining what a Christian marriage should look like. Right. It's mutual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

So how is what a Christian marriage should look like or just the Christian marriage like up to this point I don't know that they you're redefining it.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

You're redefining it's we're talking to Gentiles we're talking to people in the Greco-Roman world.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

This is how they were living but now Jews would have been hopefully doing this already they have more and more you were saying like the Jewish practice was procreation like this is what because for them it's like okay if you're male prostitutes yeah but Jews could still have another wife procreation.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

No Jews could still have another wife at this point too so him saying you have one wife would have also been which was the original plan. Girls line up I gotta take one of the only I mean they already have how does that change things if they have five wives I would assume if you have five wives you're now you have five wives. Yes stay yeah stay in your position yeah I'll have something I wonder if at that time though if that was still it it was polygamy what's going on still it's like a different word for polygamy I had to look it up oh oh here let me tell you what it is um it's still the word let's see oh it's okay so it's P-O-L-Y G-Y N Y so I had to look at yeah polygamy so it's like um it was like they could have one more wife so two oh not multiple I mean two is multiple but poly is still multiple yeah it's like when what two or form of polygamy that was still working in the world isn't a couple like more than two couples too yeah couples two but few he wasn't saying two more no no one more so two couple total yeah it's like a form of polygamy without yeah so he's polygamy is that the Christian marital practice should be moving towards monogamy Do you think um I'm switching gears here when he's talking about later you know when you're married you're concerned about when you're unmarried you're concerned about the Lord's affairs and so stay single so you can do that.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Do you think that's where we like got our priesthood and our monasteries and not like and I'm just gonna pull myself away directly from there I mean I think a lot is taken from what Paul is writing about when it comes to being single being celibate all those kind of things that that the uh the takeaway is that this is what Paul said to do. I can be more concerned about the Lord's affairs. I mean not just priests though nuns. Trevor Burrus Well because the priesthood in the Old Testament had families so now we're saying the priesthood is devoted to God is very fascinating from a standpoint of like marital advice in the circles. Yes in the circles where you're a single not yeah you're not married you're you're a nun you're a priest you're like parenting advice from people that aren't parents well I mean I think Dr. Spock wrote that right as a single person. What? Wasn't there a Dr. Spock there? No that's like that's on TV no he is he's for real yeah I didn't know he wasn't I don't believe he was a parent oh really he was like in the 70s that is not true information uh I I just heard that but we can look it up you can google it but yeah it's Dr.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Spock who's the guy on the TV with the point old Spock okay doctor he wasn't a doctor no that was like uh what was that called I can't I don't even know I can't recall space something Star Trek Star Trek what are you talking about Dr.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Spock on Star Trek we definitely just defend he's not a doctor sorry to all those people out there that like Star Trek I dated girl nicely like Star Trek and I was like Oh really?

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah um he closes with that advice Kelly I didn't even realize Paul says it in 39 a woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives but if her husband dies she's free to marry anyone she wishes but he must belong to the Lord. So he does advise her next time around do marry a Christian why not to the why not a man?

SPEAKER_02 35:03

But in my judgment she's happier if she stays as she is why would he not say if oh why a husband is bound to his wife as long as she lives and if she dies he can remarry but only if it's a believing wife. Oh I'm sure he would recommend too I do too but maybe he just doesn't say it. Yeah maybe it was a given that the man was going to remarry this as he's saying it to all women but he could be talking to a specific woman oh you know what I mean I read that here in my dictionary too because it said like where he's talking to the woman so it's like oh sometimes so like in the instance So they were writing a letter and they're like hey listen do you know Priscilla?

SPEAKER_00 35:45

What do you think about her?

SPEAKER_02 35:46

He's like she should remarry but like in chapter five he was talking to a specific man. Yes. Okay and so there are some instances where and through the letter of first Corinthians where he's talking to learning Greek I would have to look and see if it's singular or plural I got enough work to do I probably won't look at it's little we could Google it Google it.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Oh Pastor Sean's on it singular or plural is not a singular plural I'm not sure he's over there googling other things.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

I just lost everything oh no but so let me ask you this Kelly so with this chapter you know like the word of God is his word it's it's useful for us how is this

Why Boundaries Protect Hearts

SPEAKER_00 36:30

chapter useful for us? That is what is our what is our takeaway I do think that what does it show us about God does it show us about God it shows about God that he wants men and women both submitting to each other submitting equally to him like we are equal because we are all following Christ which means we all are doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Yes there isn't a this is the way a man follows Christ this is the way a woman falls Christ so good. There is a way to follow Christ and so that looks like there's a free way there's a slave way there's a gentile way the Jew we're all following Christ and it should look the same across the board although it gets confusing because it doesn't mean in our culture like we've talked about this with your class like I'm in the same class with all these same people but you have to think you have a room say you have a room of 50 people you have 50 different wills you have 50 different ways the brain looks at something and thinks about like so there's all these different trains of thought kind of and it's like how do we bring that all together because we're all supposed to be following Christ in one direction we make it hazy.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah another practical thought if you're a Christian don't have sex outside of marriage I mean it's not talked about a lot as to why so I would be curious to ask these girls why why shouldn't I have sex outside of marriage?

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Well again I think it's for safety for your own it's a safety net I think God puts in place for us too.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

But we love each other I will say we're married.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

No I was sorry I was given a hypothetical we know we're getting we we want to get married.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

I thought you were asking from my personal experience because your heart connects with another person. Yeah like you literally are connecting physically and then you're connecting spiritually I was listening to a parenting podcast on the rip that apart over and over and over again and you think it's not going to have an impact and it does.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

And they were talking about you know dating you know they had a lot of different perspectives and they weren't pushing anything but they did say this as parents we're teaching our teenagers how to do divorce by the way we let them date. We because we let them connect and then they rip apart. Connect rip apart connect rip apart connect rip apart connect rip apartment they said that in Corinth at the time I read that this morning um Seneca who was a governor at the time and he says like at this time culture people were discovering divorce as well and so it was like a woman was only getting married to divorce like exactly what to well just to probably make money right?

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Well they were just kept moving on and he says the only reason why sometimes people were keeping their husband was to make their lover upset because they were trying to like create jealousies. Oh wow and so divorce was only dreaded as long as it was unusual but now that women learn they can divorce they're doing it over and over again and so they're just leaving their homes in order to marry in order to divorce so weird. That's wild. Anyway I had a thought it was something with what you said parenting oh the other thing that I learned recently is that because we're also not teaching our kids no they're not being able to say no so if a man a young man wants to have sex with them they're not equipped because they haven't been told no so they don't feel like they can say no either. And so it's just like I don't know it's not a part of my worldview and so I guess I have to say yes.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_05 40:20

That is wild. Sheesh that is wild. Yeah because of everything is yes yes yes you can have yes you can have yes you can do that you want to do that you can have okay yes we'll we'll make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yes is easier yes is easier yes is easier and so then you don't know how that you have the authority to say no.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Wow glad I tell my kids no I was going to say I think your parents told you no a lot you're seriously like so annoyed.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

You said it'd be their okay you're seriously annoyed one track mind over there.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

I mean I was wondering why he texted me and said hey listen I'm gonna change up the uh who's in the podcast I was like that seems a little unfair I was just like there's three men and a woman in there for this chapter that's like that for Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 41:09

I was like hey you can come on the panel when we're speaking on Sunday and I was like oh no no no not this Sunday in the park like you can't talk about this at the park.

SPEAKER_05 41:17

It's chapter seven I mean you can like if we're going to I like this idea of Jamie and Kelly talking together.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

No you got all those young people if we're gonna talk about chapter seven marriage I'm not sure it'd be a good because we're males we've already done we've already done seven yeah we've already done the park.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah that's true we don't got it that is true this comes up Monday shoot any last uh closing thoughts okay so how should we live in light of chapter seven in light of chapter six work at heart work hard at staying married well if you're unmarried you can stay unmarried and just work for the Lord and it's okay we got plenty of high it could be a high calling but if you can if you're married then you have to fulfill each other's desires both ways and work for the Lord

Final Takeaways And Prayer

SPEAKER_02 42:10

together. That's why I read chapter seven I like that and don't get too tied to the world because he throws that in there um let's see and for those of us that are married to another 29 through well I think stay faithful. 29 through 31 he throws in like all this is going to pass away. So for those who weep or those who rejoice or those who buy things you should not be absorbed in your weeping or in your joy or in your possessions because all this stuff is is going to go away like don't be too attached to the world because it's all going to pass away.

SPEAKER_05 42:44

How long have you guys been married? Just turned 29 years not 29 25 for us.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Yeah we're like exactly just and Jeff and Jody are like months apart. Yeah could you imagine doing it all over again oh like that like if if if I'm unmarried right now like no I'm never gonna marry no no I mean I could see if I would want like a friend I think I would remain single I would probably remain single me and Jody are living on a private island we've already talked about this yeah we're gonna move to a private island Shelly's invited because Shelly would be a perfect private island participant. That's right we said we'll just come together when we need a friend and then we just go back apart. But I mean just because after I'm gonna have to get married I will talk about this all the time Jamie and Sean have to be remarried because they can't function my wife and I have talked about this already we talk about it a lot.

SPEAKER_05 43:39

I don't know it'd be so hard like to have that connection that's taken so many years.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Shelly your I know the answer to this. What she was not your only girlfriend correct no okay no nor was I her only boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

No her he was a golfer wait did she have a serious relationship before you yes oh for real that's why she knows how to golf she knows how

SPEAKER_05 44:00

How to golf? She that I'm not sure where you're getting this question.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Are we talking about the same jelly?

SPEAKER_05 44:06

Maybe she brought I don't know. I I mean I thought he was a great guy. I was I congratulated him when he broke up with her. I'm like, thanks, dude. I'm taking over from here.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

He was at school too, right? I swear it was golf.

SPEAKER_05 44:16

We did not go to the same colleges, but I obviously okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

You know, he was there's something uh unique, I think, about like us because we've been to I've was 15 when Jamie became my boyfriend. Yeah, like he is the only guy that I've ever known.

SPEAKER_06 44:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

So to like put my mind into like another relationship, I can't even like comprehend it. And then I mean, nor do I want to, nor do I try. I don't I don't I don't daydream about this. But it's just like when we have talked about like if one of us is no longer here, what because of that day's coming, we're only getting older. I couldn't imagine. Um, what we would do, I'm like, I'll be fine.

SPEAKER_04 44:54

Yeah. I mean, I don't really want another one. So when it comes to that's true.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

So when it comes to like nobody can replace me. I don't know that we should do that.

SPEAKER_04 45:04

However, I do like the cold more than Kelly likes the hot. And so I'm like, so I'm like, no, no, I'm not divorcing. I'm just saying, like, I might be happy somewhere cold where she never would have.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Babe, your job is here.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna get paid if you die.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

It's not that much. It's honestly not that much.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

I think actually she's gonna get paid if you die.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

It's uh it's equal. And so and so it won't last long.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Not in that. I think it would be hard, but I'd like to like I do know, you know, when we've seen plenty of widows and widowers in our community, yeah. How the Lord, like I have faith for that, that he becomes a husband. 100% husbandless and he becomes husband.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

I think too something like that I could do it, I could be okay. We do put a high regard on marriage, which is fine as Christians, but I think what the message that can get mixed up is that marriage makes you holy. Yeah. And it just doesn't, or like that, oh, all of my sexual issues are just gonna be resolved when I get married. No, and that isn't true. Marriage doesn't solve any of that. Which is why marriage chapter is here to make you holy. Sure. You still have to have self-control, you still have to have follow God on your own, and then together as a married couple.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

There's a lot of good and we can get that real mix up and there's a lot of church working podcasts from men who who talk about you know, just that the role of pornography in their their lives before they're married, and that live. I think it's gonna go away. That live that goes away.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Well, which so we learn about it. But like Force Frank.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

And uh and his was like, you know, I was a virgin, all these things, and and me and my wife, we saved each other, but then when we got married, you know, I he's like, she's like, How do you know so much? Oh and and then he said it was this shame and conviction of like, because I've watched porn, you know, and so he had to confess to her that he knows these things because of that. But not because of experience, but because of what he's seen. Wow. So it was like this, you know, like this beautiful moment instantly turned not into a beautiful moment.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

And so that's exactly what happens when you share your body with other people beforehand as well. Yes, yeah, because then you come with other ideas or expectations or history, and then you start comparing and you know, like so.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Do you agree, like from a female standpoint, like that's more emotional, whereas the the man is more physical, or do you think there's similarities in that?

SPEAKER_02 47:37

There's similarities.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

I think there's similarities, I agree, but there is a different wiring process. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

I mean, God, our hormones run on different clocks. So you guys are every 24 hours. Yeah, men reset every 24 hours, women reset every 28 to 31 days or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

So that's why I've never heard that. I've never heard that. Every 24 hours we would men reset every 24 hours.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Your hormones reset every 24 hours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:03

I I I would have to just try I don't even process these thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

So um this is what I'm saying. So typically, this is a science class right here. Typically, that's why men have higher sex drives because you reset every 24 hours. Our bodies are on a cycle, and so our bodies want to make babies, you know, day 14 to 21 or whatever when we're ovulating. So our sex drive goes up because our bodies are wanting to make a baby.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

So men not about you at all. So no, it's not about you at all.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

There's just like I need a man because I want a baby.

unknown 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

And that doesn't go away. Menopause. So I'm so I'm just saying, like, God did put our natural sexual desires different. Why? I don't know. We're gonna ask him what we're gonna do. I thought that was the fall. You desire husband. Oh, that's true. It's the fall.

SPEAKER_04 48:53

What woman doctor out there named that thing menopause, though? I'm gonna just tell you that.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

No, he uses Jeff Miller's joke all the time. This is Jeff Miller's joke.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

What men on pause?

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Yes. How did Jeff get involved? You it was you went on. It was like, no, no, no, no, no. Do not throw Jeff under the bus. Don't throw Jody under the bus. It was like two, I know, it's two years ago, one life. We're sitting in a cafeteria, well, God knows what we're talking about. And Jeff goes, Something about men and pause is like, Man on pause, is what you mean. He said that he did. So now I get to hear it all the time. I did not ever know this.

SPEAKER_05 49:33

Man on pause.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Poor Jeff. Anyway, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 49:36

What does Paul say about this topic, Kelly? Stay single, stay single. Or your body is not just getting.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Yeah, but here's my my point too in marriage is like if you figure out your wife's body, you're going to have a happier, lovelier life. And if you have four kids at home groping at your wife all day long, and you come home and you grope at your wife, like in Christian marriage, I think we should understand our life home circumstances more. And I think we see a lot of um marital problems, splits, affairs, all of these things, instead of understanding what both of us are feeling, what both of us are going, put my will to the side because what you're going through is also important. Yeah. And as a man, loving and serving your wife looks like that sometimes. Looks like I'm gonna put my desires and wants and what I think is a need to the side because my wife has three babies at home. She's nursing one, one's in diapers, one's running around. And I need her body too. And I need her body too. Everybody needs our bodies all of the time. I love when you say that. Men, I don't think, understand how exhausting that is for a woman.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

And that's amazing. That makes me feel like what Paul's words are divine because he says that in chapter 10 multiple times, too. Like, do what's good for the other person. We don't do what's good for ourselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

It's a way man can serve their wives. I mean, and women have can be guilty of that too. Like, I'm gonna close myself off, you're never home, you're working to your life. Yeah, you know, and keep it. So there is that mutuality there in the past.

SPEAKER_05 51:12

All of my marriage counseling sessions, the first conversation I have is, you know, like uh marriage is defined by the Bible. And if we're gonna do that, Christ has to be the center. Because if Christ isn't the center, you're never gonna get your you're never gonna get this right. You're never gonna get it. Because you can't. Like as a human, I can't get this marriage right outside of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Because where we're getting our information is movies.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

I deny myself when I'm a Christian. I don't deny myself when I'm not when I'm in Christ, I'm denying Sean. When I'm outside of Christ, I'm selfish on.

SPEAKER_04 51:41

You're coming home saying, What have you done all day? Oh my gosh, this place is everywhere. Kids are everywhere. Do you not want me now? No. How do you not want me? I worked all day. Things not to say.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Things not to say. I think I do feel courtial culturally we're growing out of that mentality where men are a little more aware of what's going on in their homes where they weren't probably in the 70s, maybe even nineties.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

But yeah, there's definitely probably more of a you stay home, I'm gonna work, and I think dads are more involved in their kids' lives.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Yeah, I think as of late, last 10 years, maybe then.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Yeah. And maybe it's a rebound because their dads weren't. Yeah, that's probably true.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

For sure. Yeah. I think that was a good ending, Cal.

SPEAKER_05 52:30

Any last words, Pastor James?

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Last word. I don't know if Jamie should have the last words.

SPEAKER_05 52:35

Jody, would you like to do it? Well said, ladies. Well said. Well said. Great job. Jody, you want to close us on prayer?

SPEAKER_01 52:41

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 52:43

Jody doesn't want to pray. We have to hold hands.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

No. Heavenly Father, you have given us these words because you know they're for our good. So Lord God, I pray just right now specifically for our married people and our single people. God, that we would um that we would glorify you in our singleness and that we would glorify you in our marriages. That when people would see our marriages, they would say, Wow, that is a beautiful thing. And I can see God in the middle of that. And then when we people see our single people, that they would see them living their lives for you. And they would say, Those lives glorify God. So, God, whatever position we're in, I pray that it would point towards you. In Jesus' name. Amen.