Neither nor magicians, but we can tell you their stories. We are the lower keeper.
Speaker 2Welcome.
Speaker 3Welcome to. Hello. You are listening to Laura keepers of we're building podcast or we talk about eons of history, heroes and villains and the forces that we're all about at all. I'm frank and I'm cuttered whether you're interested in stories or looking for inspiration in your own world building or perhaps you want to participate. We've got something for Ya. So this week we're taking a step adjacent to the side of what we have been talking about in the last few weeks with planar realities and existential things and some things slightly more religious. Uh, we are going to be exploring the five meccas, but first, before we get into that, how are you doing Carter?
Speaker 4I'm doing pretty well, frank. A school is started for me yet again. So in between Grad school, regular undergraduate school at preparing for my thesis, you know, just right.
Speaker 3You're in both at once. I mean, you're taking classes that are Grad level, right?
Speaker 4I mean, not this semester but I have done, but technically I'm just an undergraduate frank.
Speaker 3Well, I, I am aware of that. I know that you're not technically a graduate, but still, um, I remember you don't have graduated from college before. What?
Speaker 4Yeah, when I was in high school, I got an AA degree.
Speaker 3Wow. That's actually really cool. I never knew that. Oh, there you go. That's actually pretty interesting. Um, wow. See me after class. We'll talk about that more. Alrighty. How are you? Frank? Doing pretty okay. Um, whether it's been a little colder around here and not unwelcome, but it would, it would figure because I just got an air conditioner for the first time in probably over a decade for my room from some dude off craigslist and I mean I'll just put it this way. I used to wake up in the middle of the night to take showers to cool myself off like a, like a dog or something. I'm like, I like running through a sprinkler or something, you know, I don't know how dogs cool off, aside from the panting, but now it's uh, it's, it's been nice. The weather's been kind of chill, but it's been a long week and it's honestly, it's good to talk about, uh, how will may again to kind of a whisk myself away, whisk ourselves away to a different place.
Speaker 4Yeah. But I mean, because you mentioned that the weather was cooling off. I have to tell you that like two days ago it was like 99 degrees.
Speaker 3Oh, God. Yeah. I mid Florida. I will never be jealous of the swamp crack. You must deal with all the time because of how hot and sweaty and humid it is in Florida. Hey, go. It's just everything has air conditioning. MMM. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that that's even something that's like required of people required by law from, what is it called? Ay. Ay. Ay. Oh, whatever. The architect. I don't know. I know I should know this. It's not aia, but whoever it is that defines that stuff, the NAACP. Sure. Yeah. We'll go with that. It's the Nwa n w a, C p. Oh no. Hey Carter, you got any, you got any dank doug's to bring to the table this week? Uh, you know how I love to go second, frank, so you go first. Oh, all right, fine. Um, yeah, no, I mean I, I was playing with a couple of different things of what specifically to talk about, but one of the things that has been on my mind that be kind of curious to talk about, not a huge thing, but guards and city guards there oftentimes overlooked. You know, they're typically just part of the furniture when it comes to most fantasy settings. Yeah. The just, I dunno, I think there's a lot to be said that that guards typically are just a staple. It's just, you assume that whatever city you go into there's going to be guards there and they're all going to be the same and that sounds like a great opportunity to explore different options. There are things that that fantasy typically doesn't do with guards. You know, maybe they're also very informational. Maybe they're not always, they don't always have to be super militaristic and a forced to be feared. Obviously I understand the value for that in a fantasy setting because you know the world is a scary place, but maybe there are guards who can, who almost act like Yelp, you know, they just know where the best things are in the, in the neighborhood because you know, you have a city that's valued because of its cultural importance or something. Maybe there's other guards who you never actually see them because they're considered sort of civilian gardens, you know, they always undercover. Yeah. I don't know. There's just, I think there's more there than, than typically meets the eye and I'd be curious to see what we can do with that. Sounds pretty interesting. I like it. You got something?
Speaker 4I do. So this one bad left field. Ready? Alright. Yeah. Lay It on me. So our good buddy own created everything right? Yeah. Well he obviously used his own, you know, power or what have you to create everything, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking what if there is some sort of residue right? The after the crafting of the nine flow and all these things that's in the background, Kinda like cosmic microwave radiation. And what if that is like a secret 10th flow that you could maybe tap into that if you were had enough of an understanding of the world. So you're saying like something beyond the flow? Yes.
Speaker 3I don't know if I'd call it the tenfold, but I really liked this idea of there's almost this, what is that stuff called stem cells. It's almost like the stem cells of the universe, you know, something where it can become anything. Exactly. Yeah. I wonder how you'd make that. Because the thing is, is we've already got magic so you know, it's not magic already has kind of this potential. But maybe that might actually be part of the narrative. Maybe there's this flip side where people take for granted what magic actually is and it is this cosmic radiation, but nobody recognizes it as such. Or maybe that's like one of the things that people, the from Eva Primer something that they understood that nobody has sense understood about magic. And so if one of them were to look at the way that magic is used in the ages that follow, they would be maybe disappointed or maybe just piteous even have of us as they say, you know, like, oh, like you really have no idea what you're using and you're using not even a fraction of what it's capable of, you know, and with far less magic, they could change the world forever.
Speaker 4I imagine it like this, you know how um. Well, you know what happens if you put white light through a prism?
Speaker 3Yeah. You can split it into all the different colors.
Speaker 4Yeah. The flow is when you put this other thing into a prison, you get the ninth floor.
Speaker 3I like that. Yeah. Because especially that is that roughly follows the kind of religious slash metaphysical implications of what the nine flow actually is. When we talk about the abstracts, which if you are new to the podcast, first of all, welcome. We're happy to have you. A second of all, you might have no idea what the hell any of this is. You can definitely check out previous episodes. I'm the abstracts are for the long and the short of it, just the nine forces that magic is sourced from and they have to do with the forces of perfection, charity, ambition, creativity, truth, wisdom, joy will and basically the metaphysical manifestations of those things and how they affect people, but like, yeah, the way that these things work, they're basically coming out of the heavens and touching the world and so these flows, the they're seen or have been told to be literal embodiments, rivers in the heavens that flow then out of there and into reality. So they all have to be sourced from somewhere and you're seeing sort of there's a reverse river delta where all of them converge at a specific single point.
Speaker 4Well, I'm saying they may not. That may have been in the past. I not be still right. They may be forever separated and the only way to make them come back again is together together. All nine put it through another prison. Oh,
Speaker 3kind of like reverse the process. Exactly that. There is something there, especially when you think about ninth level spells and what they're capable of doing. Exactly. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. I like where you're going with this. We'll have to check in with that sometime in the future because for now we're gonna just move right on to our actual topic for this, uh, for this week, which is the Mecca is one of them. Yes. We are not going to talk about all of them. Good. This. No, but basically where's this coming from is Carter and I realized that we have gone through and kind of broken down that the continent of Everest and some have to not low heat, which is the western continent that sort of, you can imagine it as being the way I've always pitched as the border between Asia and western Asian countries, like you know, the tips of Russia and Turkey and that sort of area and you know, eastern Europe except it's kind of flipped. So the western end of Everest touches the eastern end of two, not low heat and the parts of that continent that most reflect western European societies. We see it in the middle ages and things are within ever asked. And then, you know, it kind of extends further outwards into this analog. It's an analog between Asia and also the American frontier. But wow, that was a little distracted basically. Basically what I'm saying is though that there are five methods that are centrally located around the split between every St Louis and they are interested in each country is very small but very, very important to the entire world. And so to look at them and explore what they are actually about, we're going to roll a die into pick one at random.
Speaker 4Yeah. And these, these five are basically like city states, right? They're all surrounding these giant cities that did or just, you know, ancient and
Speaker 3powerful. Yeah. So you can kind of think of it as how important the fertile crescent is. And more specifically Palestine, Israel, how such small countries define such a large part of global politics, especially in the 20th century. Maybe not as much in the 21st century, but still absolutely have an important place. All right, so what's our number in there? I don't know. Um, why don't you? Uh, I would say like, what if you just roll the d six and five and. Yeah, if you get a 60
Speaker 4role, I feel like that favors. It's not exactly even but all right. Oh, is it really? Yeah. It's like if he really did before and do a d three for, you know, trying to do a [inaudible] and district ruined for is, it's not as even as if you roll a d six divided by two. All right, we'll see.
Speaker 3Since we're trying to do this perfectly evenly, why don't you real live d 10 and we'll just divide in half one and two will be one, two, three and four will be two, etc. Yep. Alright, I'm rolling. Alright. What'd You got? eight. Which is for. All right. Um, so the fourth country is yum. Dala you wanna you wanna. Do you have the, a I've location pulled up on the map. Yep. You wAnt to read that for, for the good people?
Speaker 4The whole bit.
Speaker 3Yeah. I figured we might as well. It's a good kind of jumping point.
Speaker 4All right. Let me just tighten my tie or less than a week's leisurely ride from angolan. Allah is the fourth mecca, so cold for the Innumerable dragon born that regularly make pilgrimage there as every dragon born is expected to find a way to young dala before they're passing. It has become the most visited holy country in the world. Warping trade roads for thousands of miles around towards its center, arid, rocky, and highly elevated. I'm dArla is singular among the mcos as its location was initially chosen without any religious significance. Instead, it's favorable climate. Make it a paradise for dragon boards. Thinking to unite with a scarf or dragging the spirit while other races are allowed to visit. Citizenship is only alloWed to the mechanics.
Speaker 3All right, well there's a lot to unpack there. Carter, is there anything that specifically stood out to you?
Speaker 4Yeah. Uh, now as a veteran listener of the podcast, I think I know a fair bit about yvette island may, but it says that every dragon warrants expected to find a way to young dog before their passing. How long do dragon borne live again?
Speaker 3Typically only about Eighty years. They have shorter lifespans than even humans.
Speaker 4So When do dragon born typically make this pilgrimage? Is it different for every dragon born or is it like in your prime you're expected to make the trek?
Speaker 3Well, let's talk about that. I meAn, I think my first thought would be that it's probably most likely that the dragon born make this pilgrimage in their youngest ages. That they can act of their own accord becaUse you know, it is the time where they're probably the most able. But it makes me wonder if there's. Because I can't imagine that all dragon born cultures are the same. You know, maybe there's some where this is something that typically happens when you're in your old age, maybe others. This is something where you actually bring a brood of the young ling's, like the youngest of the, of the dragon born with you as almost sort of, you know, the difference between people's, you know, culture is where people get confirmed, you know, because, you know, maybe in the catholic church they were baptized as a baby because of the beliefs around that. And then are later confirmed and then there's others who, you know, if you are a part of like, let's say a born again movement or something, it's, it's, uh, being baptized as an act of choice because some significant change within the self, the nfl, still others, you know, you have a bar mitzvah where it's literally just you turned a certain age and now you were considered a man or a bat mitzvah for that matter. A woman. Okay. Um, another thing I'm curious about is we recently talkeD about kind of this idea of racial tide pools and blood lines. Right? And this, am I pronouncing red squirrel? Squirrel. yes. Is that one of those. Ah, so this is something I've been looking forward to talking about for a little while. So the squirrel and it's, it's actually kind of fortunate that we talked about. This is a good segue. It's a good thing to have as a connective tissue. If you want to check out. Last week's episode we did talk about, um, yeah, it was known as called ghosts in the dream and it had to do with racial tide pools and also ancestral memory. Now for the Dragon and the dragon born are an interesting race because they were not made as a result of the acts of gods or even of their own volition, which you could sort of attrIbute to the elves as saying they were somewhat responsibility for their own creation or even the dose in my which were created literally by the gods. Instead, they were created as shock troops during the dragon fall, which was a war between a chromatic and metallic dragons back in the day. You can check that out in episode two if you are more curious about what that is about, but they initially were born or formed without any actual soul or anything. They were empty husks. They barely even had mines. They were essentially puppets that the chromatics used because they figured that if they created them, they could then use the material goods of warfare, weapons, swords, and things that, that they otherwise couldn't have access to, and it allowed for them to have ground troops, shock troops that they could then push into society and take over and reappropriate things that were already extent, you know, it's kind of hard for a dragon to read a book so they might translate, transform into a humanoid to do so. And it might also be hard for them to wield the sword. So not every battle is fought with giant flame. Sometimes you need to do site or some subterfuge or infiltrate something. As a result. The dragon born when they were initially created this way, long after the dragon fall ended and the metallics won, the war took over and looked after the dragon born. They were given the last of their spirit, uh, the last, the metallic sacrifice, the last of their identity in order to bring the dragon born, elevate them up, lift them to a level of the knowing. And so basically there is a belief or a series of beliefs that have some different variations on them, but the general one is that all dragons, all of them are united by a singular squirrel, which is the dragon spirit. It is the idea that basicallY all dragons, regardless of what they are, they're metallic or chromatic, are all united by something that is sort of almost like the dow in that it's a sort of a mix of good and evil. It is the tension between all things chaos and order and that each dragon born when they are born, pulls off a little piece of that and kind of takes it as their own. And so the metallics and the chromatics were meant to kind of be the manifestation of a civilization and nature that the chromatics were made to rule over civilization and to look after it, You know, be the guardians of it. the metallics were made to be the guardians of the natural world. Minerals and rock formations, things geological in nature. Basically what's going on here is it's not exactly to answer your question, somewhat long winded, lee, it's not a tide pool, but scholars and sages have noticed that dragon born spirits or dragon born tide pools have a stronger likelihood of their or their, their, their ties to each other, run much deeper than other societies and whether that's the dragon born observing that and calling that the squirrel, or whether that is actually causing that to be true there. There is some correlation there.
Speaker 4Okay, let's bring this back on track cases we all take in a birch yam data, right? So it says yolanda was not chosen as a religious site that was chosen for is favorable, favorable condition for dragon born. Right? Right. So can we talk about its founding? Sure. So
Speaker 3this is something where I would love your input on, um, I don't actually know when yum dollar was initially formed. I think it's, if it's called the fourth mecca, my guess is that it was behind the other three. So you've got to tara, which is the first mecca. That was where, um, yeah, ava, the first city, the city of humans. And things, that's where it is typically believed that the ash curse was, it was the epicenter of that activity. Um, so that came first, then you have, I believe. Okay. Pure elebond is the second, then you have a, I think as raised, which is the third, um, which means that peer elavon and his rage came first. So young dala probably only it came about in the last few thousand years. Sometime in either a vm tershia a tertiary or fortis. When did the, when did the fifth mecca come about again? That one's the most recent one. So a hinges is, uh, is pretty recent. It has to do basically halflings and their intent to just make everything in agrarian pastoral landscape. They'll cut down trees, they'll move earth literally to just like flatten it all and make it essentially a mix between North Dakota or Nebraska and a hobbiton. VerY good. But yeah. So to answer your questIon, let's talk about it. Let's discuss this. Let's, um, I think if we're talking the timeline right, you've got young dala must have come after some point when the dragon born were elevated. So when during a vm secunda, during the shroud of the empire were the elves, again, something you can see in episode two, the elves kind of ruled the world. It was giant baron, mad max style, the wasteland, right? It's, well, maybe more conan the barbarian than medmax, but you know, you've got. And so after the dragon fall, the dragon born would kind of the dragon. Borden would rove the world in, in hertz, essentially they were little more than animals and had this strangeness about them because they all were empty headed. They were a socket without a plug. The metallics looked at this and eventually gave them. But there is a, you know, gave them their spirit. But there is a very large gap here. What was going on with the dragon born during the shrouded empire? What happens after that? When, during eva tertius things return, obviously some of the dragon born must have been in the city of over riska, which I think we talk about in that episode three. Yeah, in episode three m, yes. But eventually, you know, they must've found their own place. So what do you think was happening at that point? Well, if they were before the, before the metallics gave them, they're kind of minds and their sessions and their souls. There might've been some strife with the elves if the ios counted them among, you know, the ribbon. Absolutely. And I think they may have tried to enslave them at some point to the els do like to do that. So interestingly enough, I wonder how useful they would be because they had humans as slaves [inaudible] and they fed off the human souls. But how useful would a soulless person b to the. Exactly. And I mean if they were around there probably a little more than pack animals to be used for lifting and carrying things. And well the dragon born are somewhat stronger than humans. They were probably a lot harder to control as well because even though they kind of were empty headed the elves, I, I'll be curious to see if any of the elves tried to hijack that and plug themselves in to the dragon born, you know, fill their mind and causes them to be controlled because that I could see the potential for that, but I also think that might've been difficult in a time when magic was already so hard to come by that it was basically nonexistent and the fact that racial tide pools and the nature of those divides would have made it, I think, harder for them to try and control someone that was not of their own race.
Speaker 4I Agree. I think that trying to hijack what was made to be district county kind of interface would have been incredibly difficult and alien for an elf. Yeah. So here's kind of an idea.
Speaker 3Here's an idea. What if it was that the, the dragon born eventually, maybe the elves just think that it's not worth it. Yeah, right. Let's not bother with them. We killed them on site because otherwise they're a nuisance. To have around and so they treat them somewhat like pests, but otherwise the dragon born learn to live as far away from the, you know, the reaches of the empire is possible, which I think would force them into climates that are either deep within to not low he or to the northeast. Obviously this map is, we're looking at the map on world danville at the moment, but it is maybe a little difficult to use that as a reference point considering the world would have looked slightly different in, during the time of even secunda. But we can imagine at least that these tribes have dragon born would have just kind of or heard of them would have found themselves in remote and secluded places hidden away from the alps.
Speaker 4Let's say the kind of ventured into that. He, because he's climate kind of kind of lent itself to taconic kind of inhabitation isn't it?
Speaker 3Yes. Uh, so obviously at the time most things were pretty barren and deserted, but even after the, the nature of tonight loki is that a lot of it is desert. Um, and where it isn't desert, it is these impenetrable jungles and if not jungles, then massive open plains. So wherever it is, I think there would definitely be large pockets of space where the dragon borden could live. Yeah, large. I'm picturing monument valley style. You know, rock deserts were huge, huge plants of stone stick out and just pocket the, uh, the, the skyline with horizon.
Speaker 4Maybe it was simply as such that when they were given their, their sentence and their souls by the metallics, they, they realized that they needed to be together and planted themselves in the first bar they saw in this happened to be.
Speaker 3Well. Yeah. And I mean, I think what I'm thinking is this is, this is, this is where my mind is going. I think that after they were given the spirit by the, you know, the dragon spirit by the metallics, it was a long time before taconic culture is ever really connected with each other. They likely formed insular traditions as a result of trying to hide away from the trout at empire, which means that they have always been like, I think this kind of fits. I think this fits the approach that I have typically taken with dragon born and not necessarily being closed off societies, but definitely more focused inwards and mAintaining a belief that other peoples would not understand our cultures. And why would we even bother? We are so different from anything else that walks this earth with a mind. Probably deal with some of frankenstein's monsters. uh, uh, concepts of like, are we, you know, this, this, this shadow that hangs overhead of. We were siMply a creation of other mortal beings regardless of how long lived they are. They were not the perfect god's. And whether that causes depression or rebellion, you know, fighting against that idea and saying, no, I do have a place here, regardless of what it is. I think that that would definitely hang over the dragon born and they might keep to themselves. So we're, I'm kind of going with this is, and the in the same way that maybe this isn't the best comparison, so hopefully this isn't taken in a weird way, but the jews were exiled for a long time. right. and then in the 20th century, uh, after the events of, uh, I believe it was after the events of world war two, that Israel was kind of taken back by America. Right. They said, here, we're going to give this land to the jews. Yeah, it was the analyzed some extent. I'm not a history buff, I'm not entirely sure, but I think you're about right. So in the same idea, I think that there was some event that occurred where after long after the world had settled down to some extent, perhaps during a vm tertius in the later years, the dragon born started to see some of the power that was returning to the world and said, you know, this was maybe, you know, maybe for a thousand years or so. They start to kind of reconnect and have their own societies come back to each other and then they start to see the danger of an encroaching war or some event that is off on the horizon. perhaps even some of the series among them, you know, reach into this carl, uh, which I think has allowed them this whole time to be aware of and interact with each other over these massive distances. And eventually they say there may come a time when we need to band together or protect ourselves. And I think that's where the creation of young comes from, is they basically tried to find a centralized location where all of the different tribes could then kind of convene and have a moment to converse and talk about what they have seen, what they've experienced across the world. I think you're right. And that seems to make the most sense to me. And plus it. I think it makes for a good story. I think there's a lot of cool little pieces of that that could make either good campaigns are good. Short story is good episode chunks to talk about the different leaders or whatnot. I think we definitely had some sort of great series stepped up and said this is the land that we will call or write ours and sent out the call right through the scarf. Do you think that people were living in. What was young dollar d? Do you think they cleared it out? Um,
Speaker 4I feel like no one would live there except dragon born the way it's described. Right. arid. Rocky.
Speaker 3Yeah. I think of a mix between mount everest in baja, California. Yeah. So I did a bunch of rocks, maybe there's some creatures that live there, but it's, it's hot, it's very arid. It is somewhat high up and I think all of those things are very favorable to a drag and it may, maybe even that's part of the culture is like, you know, yeah, like a mix between. I especially because I love this idea of a mix between sort of spanish mission meets a like architecture styles of spanish mission meeting indian or as tech architecture meeting, you know, these shangri la style temples that you might see in, you know, in tibet or, you know, I, I don't know, I love that picture of sort of mixing those different flavors together. And I'm not an architect, I don't understand. But since kid, yeah, maybe I'll have to. I don't know. I don't know how to convey that in an audio format. Um, but okay. So we've got him dollar and I think maybe yeah, if it wasn't remote, perhaps there were some doors or something living there. I don't know, maybe they did have to do some clearing out. We can always put a pin in that because I think that might affect the history in anD the nature of this place, you know, if they had to clear some people out then it has sort of this pitted history where it's, you know, there might be some conflict or some controversy about the fact that they have it. I don't want to draw too close of a parallel between Israel though with that. so maybe we'll just leave that out of that because in no way am I trying to make the dragon born the jews or something like that. That's a really weIrd, prayerful melted. Sure.
Speaker 4Yeah. I think we say that. I think, I think we say, look, they came to this place because just like them, no one wanted them and then when we want to displace. Yeah. And so it was theirs.
Speaker 3Yeah, I think so. So okay. So they create it and now they've got a flag staked in and I think there's at least like some, some pretty to talk for a moment. This isn't a flat area. These are high elevated mountainous, rocky, a devoid of, of much like life. Um, and the air is probably denver level or higher in terms of difficulty of breathing and I think honestly it'd be kinda cool if that was actually a thing with the biology, the of, of a, of a dragon born that that was actually favorable. Perhaps richer oxygen environments are actually a little harder on their lungs or something like that.
Speaker 4Maybe. Maybe it's something like big it kind of an accident sickness where they go to like a drowsy with too much oxygen to make that,
Speaker 3oh I like that. And then that, that plugs, you plug that right into the culture. You knoW, you can have terms or where somebody talks about being oxygen air like air heavy or something, you know, oh, he's just been in lowlands for too long or something, you know, somebody who spends too much time sleeping, you know, maybe they even have a mentality where they, they have created a culture where they, they sleep on the top of a high areas or buildings because you know, it's the idea that oh well we can get closer to the sky or something where our lungs are premier and we breathe easier and things
Speaker 4that makes sense because, you know, they came from dragging this dragon's right. Soar through the air. There's less oxygen with a, you know, and you know, the dragons live on mountains. Exactly like feeded swamps where the, you know, the air is heavy with fumes.
Speaker 3Yes. Yeah. I, I liked, I like that. That's cool. That's a cool little bit of culture to throw in there. So let's talk about, let's, let's maybe take it from the perspective of a potential not immigrant. What's the word for it? Person who is going towards a mecca pilgrim pilgrim. Yeah. So what are some of the events, I know that I kind of threw out there that it might be different for different draconic cultures, but what are, maybe you're doing it as a rite of passage, maybe you're doing it because you made a significance, a choice. Maybe you invoked a right that allows you to do it. But uh, yeah. So for whatever reason, let's talk about kind of this approach. You know, we, I, I mentioned in the passage that it's become the most visited holy country in the world warping trade roads for thousands of miles towards it center. And I think the reason for that is that none of these other is first of all, they might not have the true proliferation and it's not required of every member to visit va, va or to visit, you know, pure elebond or to visit Israel, especially as rage considering it's the one country where necromancy is legal. But we'll get back to that some other time. So if you have all of the peoples of dragon born in the known world visiting this one country, what do you think they are encountering on in the process as they get near once they actually like past the borders of the country?
Speaker 4I think we see a lot of um, kind of like shrines dedicated to the pilgrimage, right? Offerings to traveler is just being the one their way, right. You know, be it food or you know, like, you know, like I imagine like a kind of hard tech that's made in this specific way for dragons. It's like lifted these. So you know, if you're low in rations you can take some of these. Oh I like that. Yeah. Like you even have that on your way out, right? You leave,
Speaker 3right? Yeah. It's a take a penny. Leave a penny. But with fooD, yes. Yeah. Okay. And I think we see old and young alike, even some very old dragon born who are nearing the end of their lives who are being carried like on stretchers, you know, by, by some of their kin or something.
Speaker 4So maybe it's because I think, like you were saying for it is different for every kind of tribe to what it means to go there, but every trip goes there, right. For some of it might be to absolve oneself of sins they've committed in life or another, it might be a right of rite of passage. Right? I'M right into being a man or a woman or a drawer. I drew what did the gender nominate? Yeah. Drawer or a drew.
Speaker 3Yeah. I was aCtually gOnna say so is if there's one location, this is, it is meant to be a place of communion between people's, the different dragon borne from across the world. So there's not really a holy site that people are visiting, but there might be a ritual that they partake in when they actually reach it. So are they going. Because I don't think they're just going to any city within the area of data. I think there's probably one location, you know, perhaps because this would be super easy, uh, the top of a mountain or something, if not a mountain top then close to the peak. There might be a small city where, you know, most people's don't actually live there, but you know many, many.
Speaker 4It's something like areas rock. I think there's. Sorry, say that again. If it's something like a, you know, you know, areas rock and Australia. Uh, no, I don't have to. It's a big, like red mountain looking thing. Oh, is that the world's largest rock? Is that what you're talking about? I mean maybe,
Speaker 3I believe. Well they're, the world's largest rock is in Australia and it's basically this
Speaker 4giant mound and it's called such because it's actually literally one complete whole and it actually extends much, much further under the ground. Have you ever heard his parents? He is ayers rock or lulu? Lulu? Nah. I don't know what this is. It's a large sandstone rock formation. The southern part of the northern territory and central in central Australia years rock. Oh yeah. I was talking about that is the world's largest rock here. So that's what I imagined it being right. This kind of sacred rock and it's big. It's real big.
Speaker 3Yeah. Oh, you know what? Okay, here's an idea, but we have already made it clear that the reason why they picked this place was not because of, you know, any holy prophecy or anything. So I think I wonder if there's something magical about this. Like I think that this rock, whatever it is, it grows over time with the patronage of dragon born that come. There it be, it started as a ritual where maybe they bring
Speaker 4like bring soil from where they came from. Oh, I like that
Speaker 3soil over from where they came from. I was thinking like maybe a tooth like that you bring it tooth and it becomes melded into the hole. But I think I like soil more because I love this idea of you have come all this way with just a small bag of the soil from your home tribes like area and as you walk up to, you know, this, this formation or this thing, you take it out of your bag and sprinkle it. You know, Maybe it's a path that you walk. And so as you sprinkle it over the, the, the soil becomes richer and richer. Maybe it literally becomes a mound, like what would, what would become of this is are we talking a clearing in, you know, near like a mountain lake or something that's near the peak or they literally like at, you know, they have this idea that they're adding onto the height of this mountain by sprinkling it at the peak of it. I think it's like a, it's like a lowland area between two mountains. It's a valley. It's a deep valley. Mm. And basically it's slowly becoming its own mountain wu as you think people bury the dead there. I think it's definitely happened before. Yeah. I wonder. I think it might be, it might be accustom of some of them. Maybe it. Yeah. I'd be curious because I think perhaps it is that only village elders or somebody who is like the peak of your tribe is allowed to be buried there, but I will say that that does prevent complications because what are you going to travel for two months with a rotting body? Maybe it's the sears. Yeah. I wonder if There's some sort of magical ritual that can cause them to be very there. But yeah, I think it's more than just a graveyard. I feel. I love this idea that it's a representation of it is the manifestation of all of the lands that the dragon born claim to be their own. And each, each one of them has brought a little piece of it that is such a beautiful image. That's like bringing the ashes right to scatter incepted. It's your home. Yeah. And you're bringing it every, every. with every dragon born that scatters this dust on this earth, it raises the elevation of it. And so who knows, maybe in some distant future it is, you know, the, the value is almost filled and it is this idea that we are on from generation after generation. The dragon born are elevating this place and bringing it higher towards the sky where we can breathe easier. We will take the lowest places in the world and through our communion with each other lifted towards the sky. Yup, I think so. That is. Oh man, I love that. So then I think there's probably not going to be cities in this valley. I think what there are going to be though, our city is built on the edges of it, that sort of ring it, you know, there are hotels and hostels and places for people to stay around this space and people go down into the valley and they'll scatter their dust and so it becomes this ritual of maybe you stay there for several days, three or four days and you know, you meet with others and you catch up on the news about what's going on across the world. But also just what are some of the aCtivities that are happening in this space, uh, beyond what are some of the ciliary cultural things going on. You know, probably some sort of dances or mixers or whatever. But there's probably something else too. I feel like there is some sort of manifestation of the community that is going on.
Speaker 4Maybe there's some sort of like a annual or maybe like, um, according to the, uh, during specific, like at moon cycles, like a festivals have kind of a competition
Speaker 3neck and head that could happen. I was thinking more in the, in the tune of rivendell ask storytelling circles of people kind of sharing the stories of the dragon borne from, from times long past. I definitely wouldn't, you know, turn aside at taconic olympics though.
Speaker 4Yeah, I was thinking your chronic olympics. Okay. That could. I'm thinking it's not like it's like whoever's there and some people like, you know, live around to participate in it and it's like, you know, an honor to be there when it happens, but it's not like super rare. It's like this kind of thing. It's always happening, you know, every year or every season and no one really likes stays and does it all the time. It's like you go there and when you're there you do this thing and then you leave.
Speaker 3Oh. So it's kinda like you have a leader board of, you know, different feats or acts that are like, like marked up. And then as people, you know, somebody does whatever, the draconic caber toss or whatever and does an even better job. You know, they can just walk away and then the next person who comes up, they, you know, they see that two years ago there is an uncontested like this was the best.
Speaker 4Yeah. And it's not like, you know, I need to beat this person. It's like I need to do better for it. Right. Dragon barnes, right. They're pushing, they're pushing themselves to further their community and not. So to be like, you know, young bird snack has always beaten me in, you know, housing. Yeah. Perfect snack. I like it. Bird snack scale. Nibbler
Speaker 3oh yeah, totally. We're going to have a dragon board now called bert snack nail skill. Boyer skipped nail nail nibbler scale. Nibbler scale. Unlike nail scribbler better though. So there's definitely also going to be a snort back nail. Scribbler a guy who is, is there a rifle or something? Okay. So I, I did want to, I did want to touch on this because I don't, I, I, I haven't articulated this, but this is something that I think about pretty regularly. When I think about the dragon born. They have always seemed to me to be a manifestation of the most unchanged of ways in the ancient most ancient of races and you know, obviously it's because their dragon born like there is a trope that I'm leaning on with that the idea of dragons and the unchanging ways of dragons, which then how does that interact with the fact that they have these short lives and I think there is something about their culture is that leans towards favoring the elderly, uh, that even young dragon born, and this is not
Speaker 4everybody obviously, but I think there is a common trope that is seen in the cultures where they look forward to their aged years, their sixties or seventies, their eighties when they're near the end of their life and they are spending most of their time telling stories around campfires or you know, wherever it may be that they take place in that there's a lot of honor and respect given to the elderly. I've gotten. I got something for you then. Yeah. What's up? Because we've established a very communal minded, you know, about helping other dragon book, right? Yes. So of the greatest directing their own may. Maybe the greatest thing during one can do is teach the young. And that's what the eldest do.
Speaker 3Yeah, I definitely was leaning towards that. Yeah.
Speaker 4So through their stories and you know, I'm sure there are stories that each elder kind of tells a little bit differently, but they all have the same kind of, right? It's kinda like, um, classical myth, right? With the iliad, right? Everyone knows achilles has to kill actor, right? Right. Diabetes doesn't kill hector. If someone did that, if someone said the story like that, he'd be thrown out of the village. It's like, no, that's not how it goes.
Speaker 3It's just like they would be dismissed as being like, okay, well I don't know why you did that, but that's not how it goes.
Speaker 4Yeah. So I think there were these stories that are told rates. They have some staples that are always told the same way, but. Right. How, you know how right hector got out to fight achilles. Did it challenge hector? Did hector challenge achilles? Right? Was it over right? That doesn't really matter. And people change that up and that is the kind of like these stories, right? These myths that follow through the there, right? Ancient roots. Are there ways they kind of teach?
Speaker 3Yeah, I like that. Especially considering the fact that the. There are implications about what, why, why is it that hector challenge achilles versus his achilles challenging hector and what does that imply about the characters and that each, you know, elder is going to tell that story differently. The dragon born, we'll one, we'll share it one way and the other, we'll share it another way. And neither is wrong because it's a myth, but each has a perspective that they're trying to impart. So anyways, where I was going with all of that was just to say I think it, it would be so cool to have these drum circle like situations where you've got, you know, one dragon born, oh that's not a drum circle, but they're all convening together and listening to the tails toll. And so I think there's a lot of spaces that are amphitheater like where there is one very old dragon born, you know, the, and they are, they're speaking to hundreds of others and this is like the elder of the elders that is sharing these stories. Um, you know, I think we're running out of time. I would be really curious. We're going to have to, we're going to have to touch on this because uh, some other time because I used the wording very intentionally and we haven't talked about this, but the, it is not the dragons who come here, but the dir conics were allowed citizenship. So there's two kind of big things we haven't talked about. One, what does this imply for other people who show up here? You know, maybe they're just interested as an anthropologist or maybe they have a different reason for coming here, but they are not a dragon born. I'd be really curious to see how that shakes out. Also too. What about dragons? Dragons are invited here too. Does that include the chromatics as well? Is there sort of a ceasefire that is necessary to instate between the metallics and the chromatics and also this is all coming from before the dragons disappeared, which they disappeared at the end of avon cortis. So how does thAt, you know, how, you know, what kind of shadow does that cast over the place?
Speaker 4I think so. First let's do with the first one then end on the crazy dragon fight. Um, I think that definitely treated as outsiders. Right? And they're like, what are you doing here? You don't belong here. You right. You are tainting not really painting the place, not tainting the place, but you're distracting us.
Speaker 3Mmm. Kind of thing. Yeah. I think it's unfortunate, but I could definitely see that being a pretty common mentality. Not it is not necessarily trying to be overly hostile or unwelcome, but there is definitely a dismissiveness or how could you truly understand the thousands of years of our story? You have, you lacked the context to make meaning of this place. And as a result, if it becomes a mockery by you simply be here.
Speaker 4I think it's definitely a thing like there are like people are allowed to set up shop and hang around the ring of, of city and the city ring that's around the crater, but like they don't go in the valley.
Speaker 3Yeah. I think that the dragon born well espeCially because young dollar is some of the countryside surrounding this valley too. So I think that the, there are. Yeah, probably like with any place where a lot of people are going to converge, there's going to be people commoditizing and selling food or whatever it may be lodging, but they are going to be just outside the borders of young dollar especially because citizenship is refused to anybody who is not a dragon orange or chronic. Are you happy with it? Oh, absolutely. No, I, I honestly, I wasn't even necessarily planning on exploring it. I was just saying that that definitely could even be its own episode is just, you know, um, which, speaking of which, yeah. Is there anything that you would be curious to explore further but we didn't really get to talk about?
Speaker 4Yes, I won't. I want there to be like this, just like ancient gold or bronze dragon that is nearby that it's like I'm okay with these dragon important being here, but no to any other dragons. Like this is my land. Not even other metallics. That's just another metallics.
Speaker 3Oh, okay. I can definitely picture times when one dragon or another has tried to take command of this place, which, okay, I was gonna say we haven't even talked about this, but there is a, I always pictured him dollar to also be a place of marshall prowess. Uh, sort of, you know, tread lightly and carry a big stick mentality about we are not about being overly combative but we are going to teach our young how to fight and our old how to fight. And especially because they, they are born out of conflict. There peoples are born out of conflict. And the implications that that might have for each of the different colors of dragon born would definitely change things about the way that their cultures operate. So yeah, there, I mean there might even be a imbalance in what, what dragon born show up because of that, you know, the fact that they are born one of different 10 different colors. We'll have to talk about that. We might just have to do an episode on the dragon born because that's a whole other, like the implications of that and some of the threads that are just loosely hanging there are so good.
Speaker 4I've got something great to end on. Okay. Why don't you end on it and then we'll uh, we'll call it I imagine, right, that there are, there is a small amount of dragon morning that are born right from the pilgrims that are born within young. Yes. Yeah. And they're considered, you know, a little bit. It's considered to be a very good blessing and they're supposed to like live out their youth here and then return to where they came from. Yeah. And I think one of the things they do, and these are like typically become champions in their villages and stuff because they are trained up from their youth here by so many different people. Right. I think one of the, like, you return to your tribe not to when you're at a certain age, not when you're this good, but when you see when you can pass this ancient bronze or like an intake, a coin from his hoard,
Speaker 3oh, oh, I like this.
Speaker 4And then. Right, right. You do that. And then afterwards the elders have you take the coin right and you, you leave, but at the, you know, the day after the elders come back and put two coins down outside the, his cave has like a blessing, like, don't get pissed at us. Here's another one,
Speaker 3dragon born or the dragon acknowledges this ritual and it acknowledges when it's got something, you know, like the wool pulled over his eyes. But oh, all of the different stories of people's, uh, the, the, the drawer and drew, like coming up with ways to out, you know, outwit it or sneak by or, you know, stories of them like through incredible force, you know, taking, taking a coin from the, uh, from the dragon themselves. That's. Oh, I love it. I love it. That's so great. So good. Okay, well I think that's gonna that's, that's it for this, uh, for this episode. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 4So thank you all for listening. We hope you've enjoyed this exploration into the lands of sudar in that realms beyond and perhaps found some good material to add to your room stories. You can reach us at the lower keepers on twitter. Please email us at lower keepers podcast. That is lore keepers podcast, one word@gmail.com. I hope you all had as much fun as we did. This was lovely.
Speaker 3You can follow us on itunes, stitcher, google play, or wherever else you listen to podcasts like spotify. Um, if you do like us, give us a five star rating, which helps out a ton or even better, spread the word. Tell other people about us. Let your friends know about our little endeavor. Tell area who should they tell carter? No. Tell Your waitress or waiter about us. All right. And yoU should also tell your nearest astrophysicist. Yes. Tell your nearest astrophysicist about us as well.
Speaker 4Thanks to josh silkier for his composition of land of heroes and lord keepers theme. And thanks to you all for listening.
Speaker 3Until next time, don't forget, there are always more tales to tell. Thanks everybody. Bye. Bye.