Are not heroes. Nor villain villains.
Speaker 2Neither cames nor magicians. But we can tell you their stories. We are.
Speaker 3Welcome to halloumi you are listening to Laura keepers. Laura building podcast where we talk about yawns of history heroes and villains and the forces that we're all about at all. I'm Frank and I'm Carter and whether you're interested in stories looking for inspiration in your own world building or perhaps you want to participate.
Speaker 4We've got something for you. This week we are going to be going back to the godwill it's been a little while. We've talked about many other subjects in the meantime but this week we decided might not be good to try out and create another one chair hand at making anyone. But before we get into that.
Speaker 5How are you doing Gardner doing pretty well. I've still managed to dodge the magic thing over the the magic Hangover's now the magic of ogre's.
Speaker 6Oh yes yeah. There is nothing very magical about them.
Speaker 5Just for some reason I'm very lucky and I am not very sensitive taking over. So I just don't really get them.
Speaker 6Yeah I I am both fortunate and unfortunate in this sense. I don't get hangovers. I just get alcohol poisoning. Well that's unfortunate. Yeah. No it's not good. When I first started to like drink well I went way overboard. I was oh oh it's just way too much is just way too much and too many nights I spent because it's trying to figure out my limits which is like Oh that is not the best way of approaching it.
Speaker 7Yeah. Wait so did you did you did you drink a lot yesterday.
Speaker 5Yeah there are four whiskeys I have to like get one crack and I have a dark and stormy.
Speaker 7You like a club are you hanging out with friends doing another Baker ogre.
Speaker 4Oh yeah I won just in general. You just won. Well I mean I mean we didn't the finish because someone spilled that orca story over the cards we.
Speaker 8Went through. But I had basically I had I won the last two pretty big pots because I got a ace Ace jack and then I got ace king. Oh nice. And then I came down on the flop serious seriously and all it did you.
Speaker 3Did you play. Were you guys playing with real money.
Speaker 5No. No we're just keep it friendly.
Speaker 6Yeah yeah well that's good because otherwise I feel like you've run out of funds. You can't do it every week.
Speaker 5Exactly. And your conscience or a poor soul. Yeah yeah. That's because it's like a good time is a good time I drink too much. I had like the glass of water and I'm like I'm still really drunk and you know like an area where I'm like I'm still really drunk. Yeah. I hadn't had anything past you know it was bad. But it is on the phone. I get a lot of work today to do. But how are you doing.
Speaker 6I'm doing OK. I have been recovering from a kind of crazy week. It was Labor Day on Monday. I don't know if you're not in the States but we've got Labor Day here and then on I know. So I didn't have work and so I schedule flying back from Ann Arbor then and ended up here. It's a it's a really long story but the long and short of it is I was stuck on the tarmac inside a plane for over six hours. I think it might have actually been closer to eight. And literally I didn't want to lose the flight and stuff had to reschedule it it ended up having to stay overnight stranded. And it was a whole ordeal and it screwed up the entire rest of my week because that was you know eight hours of work that I couldn't get done. And so you know fill out a 40 hour week. Yeah it's a sprint it's been kind of a mess but I've been recovering I've been kind of taking it easy getting back into the rhythm of life but it's been it's been an ordeal to put it lightly. It was really nice though to just like kick back on Friday and relax though. That's good. Yeah. Yeah I did get a lot of reading done. Which is good. Going through. Yes. Louise's last book in the space trilogy called That hideous strength. It's pretty it's actually really good at it starts. I tried reading it a couple years maybe maybe as much as you know eight or nine years ago and couldn't get into it because it starts off really slow in the first about 50 or 60 pages when the previous books in the series are like OK we're going to a different planet. Let's take off within the first like 20 and then all of a sudden you're dealing with like aliens and stuff and then in this one it's like that takes place on earth and the first like 40 or 50 pages are just like marriage couple troubles young married couples troubles and stuff like this is it goes places it starts to really go places and it's totally sucked me in.
Speaker 4So that's been good. Yeah but. So Carter Hey question for ya before we get into the gods this week have you got any dank nuns you've been thinking about rolling around in your head for the last little while. I do indeed. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 5Yes. So oftentimes we see human settlements pop up along rivers and you know in general waterways because water is somewhat important to the live human life generating energy.
Speaker 3Mills you've got commerce and trade in free flowing water is oftentimes a fresh like a healthy source for water.
Speaker 5So my question for you today is you know a lot of I think are know sometimes ideas sometimes of asking you about things that maybe you have thought about.
Speaker 9Where is the biggest river and who lives on it. Oh shit that's a great question. Biggest river in Everest. Yeah we can stick with the rest.
Speaker 6Ok for new listeners ever asked is just the the continent around which most of our lore has been built up so far we haven't yet started to focus on other ones.
Speaker 10Second second is to not Lokis so there's a little bit of that.
Speaker 3But in Everest I would say that's a great question. I haven't. That's the thing I haven't really plotted out a lot of the rivers and things. If you go to the world and page there is a map and I believe in the map you can see some of the deltas and things that are created but not many of them actually run across the entire continent.
Speaker 11Yes so if you look at the map you can see some river deltas and whatnot but nothing really spans the continent. I think that there probably are rivers that do though and I would really like to explore some of them.
Speaker 5Also you know that's something to think about. You don't just come over night and talk right now. That's one thing. I have another one because I just remember going out the window.
Speaker 12Did you see an endless a.. What in Dennis Indianness. No M.A. in a..
Speaker 4And as in OK it was just an article that you did. It is though I have no issue with it. OK. What is it is that the blade of the hollow blade. Oh okay. What exactly is age. In a.. Blade of the hall ovoid.
Speaker 11Who will went to the hoop with thought to wield such power. Abandon my quest. Some might believe the craven but his wisdom to Yuill that which such which our such power greater than you can know with parent pierced appear to be nowhere to be potent be left be left tis nowhere to be esteemed potent yet free and stout and bound to yielding adamant.
Speaker 6In this myth Weaver is Verbum. I'm me intrigued dude. As far as the rivers go I think I want to imagine that there are some nice continents spanning rivers.
Speaker 10I'd like to imagine that there is a river that starts in one mountain range and due to shelving and the slope of the continent itself ends up actually spilling all the way on the other side of the continent and that as a result you have some more narrow nations or associations that are created because of it. Especially considering that if you have a continent as large as Everest is that river would get so wide by the yen it become this massive almost like Gulf. That sounds actually pretty cool dude. Some good stuff I think. Yeah I know there's probably and I definitely want to hear more about an a..
Speaker 13Yeah we talk about it later. Just for sure and for sure. Yeah you are. Don't think.
Speaker 10Well it's not so much a it's it's more of a damn ponderous or something then.
Speaker 4It's an observation about a Athena about the way that I at least have looked at primordial tales and want to capture it in some way. So my first thought was is there an ice age in the bay and is there. I mean I don't know. That's the thing is this. I don't think that there is but the reason we're like where this question is sourcing from was. Have you heard of the Thule campaign setting. No. OK so it basically takes place some time during the Ice Age or maybe a little after the Ice Age of earth and so earth is a very very different place.
Speaker 3I think they call by a different name. They're sort of some surviving eldritch horrors that have stuck around. There some of that myth and fantastical ness but there's there's something really engaging I've always enjoyed about the sort of the barbaric world this world of dark and survival and it was something I had definitely leaned on when imagining post Ash Curse. Avrum Secunda which for the new listener The askers is the cataclysm that broke the world to basically turned the entire world into a giant desert but something I hadn't thought about before.
Speaker 10Is that the what is occurring or are you familiar. Do you know what the world's largest desert is Antarctica. That's correct. It is not the Sahara it is Antarctica because the only two qualifications are that something has less than a certain amount of precipitation in a year and that it is basically like barren and has very little in the way of like I think vegetation. I think those are the two things. And so like Antarctica is actually the world's largest desert and I'm imagining that when there's so little water in the world that what is left in the caps would have very much frozen over and been trapped up in the north and south of Siddhar. The reason why I'm drawing on this though is just that I think there's something really engaging about this idea of societies that existed before the time of when people talk about Atlantis and when people conceived of Atlantis especially around the turn of the 20th century as this thing that you know there were these great and advanced civilizations that existed in a time before the glacial period before we had the ice age. That's really what Aevum primer is drawing on that same same personality that same sentiment and I hadn't actually really considered that at all. And so I don't know.
Speaker 3It's basically I'm imagining how do we weave that weave that feeling into the game more instead of just you know Mad Max. Conan the Barbarian as being the things drawing from which are more you know what is what is that. How do you capture that feeling of like you know collapsed civilisation and you know not just technology but almost like magic craft that exists in this almost ethereal state where you never really need to commanded it or simply is around you and you just bend the world to your will.
Speaker 4Isn't that somewhat simple the way conductors work it is I think the thing I guess what I'm trying to get at is just that it's it's I can feel in my mind my approach to understanding Avrum Prema shifting and that it's not so much like oh they were just super technologically advanced as they had an inherently different understanding in how magic works then anybody who followed.
Speaker 5I mean we do get some of that language which we should do and.
Speaker 4Oh yes we're definitely gonna have to do an episode on that sometime soon especially because I think the seal on it is starting to be broken. And my main game. Okay okay yeah hang up anyways yeah so that's I don't know it's just more of a sentiment than improper Dankner. I think it's just something that I realized I hadn't been considering and want to change the way that I approach that. Yeah.
Speaker 3There is something so much more unfamiliar so much more mystically strange than this modern approach that people take towards magic where it's like trial and error and almost scientific in their attempts to understand it. You have tried and true spells that you repeat and have been nailed down because magic is so dangerous whereas before somebody simply desired something to be a certain way and maybe they didn't even speak the words that just simply was. And so it was just a matter of changing the world around them.
Speaker 4Yes. Anyway. Anyway.
Speaker 3So with all that those considerations if you have your own Dankner you'd like to submit to us. You are certainly welcome to. You can submit them at Laura Kupers podcast or e-mail them to us but we'll get into the more of that stuff at the end of the episode. For now we are going to dive into god creation or breaking down what a god is based on their domain their name what gender they are.
Speaker 10Their alignments. All that's all that good stuff. So Carl you've got the you've got the window open too.
Speaker 4I do. I do indeed. Would you like me to go to you guys. Are you going to do that I suppose Tom. I figure I do I sense it's a I think a D 33 D forty three forty six I believe. Yeah. All right I'll rule it out. Let's see we've got number 38. That's kind of a high one. And C thirty three or sixty seven thirty eight. Ooh. Have eyebrows. You Stenacron you snicker. Yes. The God of Fortune The is a man you. Yes you want. You want to break down kind of their some of their stats for everybody. Yes. They have a R and have two which is that's like their renown. And I just use that as a reference. So that means that they are a regional deity.
Speaker 14Okay.
Speaker 5They are lawful neutral there and there are nine inflow corresponding is nine which which is like face fortunate or peaceful. Interesting. ARTHUR BISHOP You know you're on Well I think it won't.
Speaker 4Well I think we'll get into it in a little bit. Fair enough.
Speaker 5Their domains are cetacean and knowledge.
Speaker 4Okay so here's the first thought so we'll get started with this. So. All right. So we've got you and they are the God of fortune. They are a regional God which means that they're in some general.
Speaker 3They're not worshiped or or patronized all over the place. They're somewhat common and that there are domains our civilisation knowledge. So the first thing that I think we should bring up Carter is when I drop the word fortune what what do you think of do you think of making money or do you think of luck. Because I'm thinking that there's maybe two different interpretations that allow for us a green to be a vastly different God especially when you think about them being associated with the nine flow of peace which for a new listeners time flow simply means magic. Essentially it is. It is how people cast magic. That's where magic is sourced from.
Speaker 5I mean I think of luck. I also think that fate might play a little role.
Speaker 4OK so because you got this when I think of fortune I also there's this sort of a third definition that comes or maybe a fifth. By this point and it is how trick articulate this it's like living a good life to be fortunate to have. I can see that lining up with peace. But I also do like trying to take the disparate things and weaving that in as well. Maybe there's something to say that if there is destiny or fate that a person is making peace with destiny or fate to recognize that.
Speaker 6They you know they can't they can't fight against it or they just have to go with the flow.
Speaker 5Yes this seems very much to me instead of the like the truly fortunate or those who make their own fortune. This is not that this is like the fortunate ones of those who wait to see you know where the coin lands before making a move.
Speaker 11Yeah. And I think yes. Yes. And it's it's about making peace with your destiny. Making peace with your faith.
Speaker 10I think the people who lean into it people who maybe are the downtrodden Who are you know maybe is maybe what's regional about it is that it's chronologically regional you know during times of great difficulty people use centigrade or you centigrade to say help me make peace with the fact that I can't change my circumstances right now or that I'm in this place of plight.
Speaker 5The funny thing there is there's definitely making peace with your fate and that's you know a part of being the fortunate one knowing you can't change your fate. Making peace with what will happen but understanding that you can change the way it manifests right it's always be this way. Been there many paths. To get to that.
Speaker 11Place. Yeah. So then this starts. Okay so then this actually brings up a couple other questions but let's start with something simple. Do you think they have a proper church or do you think it's more of a they've got temples. Because I think that if you've got the situation I'm leaning more towards they might have an altar to in a town somewhere where people or people who are they ascribe to you a grand they ascribe to you know that way but almost more as just a leader in thought that to make peace with your conflicts to make peace with life is almost like something that prophets or people who come in the name of his Feniger and would simply just say follow in his way not Zent make sense. Yeah I agree.
Speaker 5I'm getting a little platonic here and I'm like oh yes I'm a piece you know the man who is fortunate to find a peaceful soul right there not in conflict with themselves or others. Yeah.
Speaker 4Oh yeah. Like there's a whole other set of thinking where it's yes literally making that association of saying I am a fortunate or even like a play on words are saying is it a play on words. What is true fortune. What is to be rich.
Speaker 3Because you know people who are rich. The reason why people want to be rich is that they can take care of themselves. They can take care of any issue or problem that shows up in their life right.
Speaker 5You know the idea that money is good.
Speaker 3Yes money money is good. Money is power. I guess it does mean different things to different people and you know especially in a world of you know the world of Halime people would want it for different reasons. But.
Speaker 11There is definitely something to be said about saying that money is not true wealth and that you centigrade is is a affirmation of that mentality. Absolutely. Maybe there's something about saying that you can make a fortune make being Fortunat out of any circumstance because it is about disposition. It is about how you react to it.
Speaker 5Yeah and maybe like looking at the merchant that might worship you Senate green we see no wouldn't worship the one that honors you Senator. Yes yes semantics but it does important it's important. Yeah the one that omniscient Senator and Mike might say something like the customer is always right. Try. I'll never fight with the customers. Or you know when making trade deals it's always better to not be aggressive than haggling and let that haggling forward lays. And you know eventually right build up to a better position or something.
Speaker 3Yeah and feel sympathy for the person who fiercely haggles and fight so hard for each cent because they have almost agreed or a love for a need for scrimping and saving whereas the person who maybe follows you sniggering believes their trust that every cent that they have that they might lose or gain is just simply on the winda fortune. You know another person will look at them and say well you're just being a fool with your funds you're not being a good trader or something whereas that person says you know am I though because I have a lot more contentment or you know peace in my heart than you do. And yet you scrabble for each cent you are so anxious and stressed every day it's the surfer dude of merchants.
Speaker 5Yes it is. Gosh I wanted to have like an awesome accented surfer dude merge.
Speaker 4OK so a couple couple other questions he is his domains are civilization and knowledge. Maybe that was at first something that was leaning towards the idea of making fortune. But I believe I mean the thing is I think that there's actually a different god that is about first of all Larry on is the the goddess of ambition and success. And there's also I think a god of straight up like other fortunes but money money. Yeah I think so. And as you go. Keith let me actually just check something really quick because I think I wrote something about you sending ground potentially. Let's see. Where is this. It might have actually been. I think it was about Larian actually.
Speaker 5Let me see if I can find it. Well you really think about it. Although ya'll give you a little bit about maybe the mayor that honors you Seneca. Yeah. And write about it. Yeah go for it. You know I think we see it in a very interesting parallel with the merchant where the mayor you know is very passive you could say that a lot of this stuff you know the guards are meant to keep order they're up meant to you know be very aggressive in their enforcement. This is not some sort of like. Word like a police state. Right. So it's kind of like a chill rain event. He was peace and fortune.
Speaker 3So I'm thinking I'm thinking that the people who follow you Senator and probably drive other people kind of nuts.
Speaker 4And I think this is one of the reasons why they might not be a very popular deity to honor because it's that mayor might be totally content with watching their city go down in flames and just saying hey this is just fortune.
Speaker 3Whereas another person you know this is just you know oh this is just me making peace with bad fortune or something whereas another person says like if you actually lifted a single finger to do something about it then you could change your fortune.
Speaker 10Because I think that I kind of think that the people I get the feeling the people who follow you a grin. There has to be a level of WoW. I guess it's not for us to judge but the people outside would. You know imagine that there is some level of delusion because or that would be a main argument against the Asenath grin because that's basically like you are living in your own world and this is just an excuse for you to not try at anything in life and accept that when things fail you never really expected them to succeed in the first place.
Speaker 5Yeah like it definitely that is a criticism which you know might not be totally fair right.
Speaker 4No I don't think so but I think there is some truth to it I think that there were definitely some people who lean that way. So a little what was I thinking it was. Oh yes there is I think what do you think it is that people seek from sniggering not just like I think peace is obviously like a base level thing but for those who are truly devout who follow them for a long time for who follow you in a green for a long time. What is it that they think that they are accomplishing. Because I don't think it's that they expect the Stenacron to turn their bad fortune into good fortune. Because the thing is I think you stenographic is less about that and more about taking your hands off the wheel.
Speaker 5I think this is one of those things where it's like Cliff you know you've got a lot of hard problems you just need to stop being so anxious and getting so much hurt me to go to you. So what are your Seneviratne it's like people that are really tightly wound and are you know anxious time and have these anxiety problems and are always read trying and worrying. Oh they seek peace. OK.
Speaker 4All right. Here's something here. Helmi is an incredibly conflicted world.
Speaker 3There is constantly fights there are terrifying monsters around all. Like they're not they're not there half the time. But the other half the time like they're tearing up villages. I mean there are the things of nightmares made real in ways that we can't comprehend. There's also great beauty. There are incredible. You know there are people who are adventurers and heroes you know the dark the dark rises and the light to meet it. Right. So there are people who you know rise to the challenge you know the conflicts of our world.
Speaker 4But like hyper saturated. And I think that you send a grain is kind of somewhere in-between though is saying like leave behind the great acts of heroism leave behind the great axis the sinister. And you know it's like stepping out of your it's almost like taking a mental was that word hermitage. But what is it when you're like I guess a monastic the aesthetic aesthetic. You know when you're an aesthetic you are like sort of a rejection of the extremes of life. Yeah. And I think that there's almost something where oh ok ok little idea little idea here some of the followers of Usna grin they take on a form of meditation that brings them to as death brings them to a point where it is though they have no pulse in their body and they recognise that as being like the ultimate form of you know living out fortune. It is neither you waning fortune nor judging it but simply letting go of it with both hands life in one and death in the other. And they are not truly dead but they have no pulse and their body as in almost to say you know with this imagery that a true follower of Usna grain is wine without a pulse like they are literally no blips ups or downs in their life okaying kind of darker. I think those are maybe some fanatics who are like kind of on the on the edge. But I think that that's definitely something is a part of it.
Speaker 5Yeah it's interesting. The closest I got death in a strange way.
Speaker 3Right which is I think what maybe weirds out a lot of people makes people feel really uncomfortable about you. Underground is that there is something. Yes these people are peaceful but they're peaceful and the way that you know a person who has lived a full life and now passes into death is peaceful when they lay there and open casket like they remind them too much of the dead walking around these people are never they are not dead and they cannot be harmed. And as a result they are never truly alive either.
Speaker 11They exist in this state a sort of like this Twilight. Ok. But we should see this. There's definitely other stuff that can kind of fuel this though.
Speaker 5I mean we kind of went to followers for a strange mission. There's definitely no heroes or the country circles. Yeah.
Speaker 11We are told that they are for what would a hero of you sent a green even B. It seems counterintuitive.
Speaker 4Right. Maybe maybe redefine the word hero a hero is somebody who stands for good or evil someone who truly exemplifies the secret stuff yeah. So what would they be. I think that Senator and actually has some associations with Buddhism or at least like these there's a loose connective thread there in terms of not necessarily like oh to be living as though dead but that there's something about enlightenment or you know kind of the cares of the world are no longer yours. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you know if there is somebody who exemplifies those then they would be very much like a Buddha like figure.
Speaker 5OK. So we Tarkan like the Dalai Lama. I don't know.
Speaker 11Do you think that the command any of the houses of Legion for new houses of Legionary like the tens of thousands of subdivisions of angelic forces which they each have a manifestation of the goals of divine forces will take root there will be no conflict. True but there are definitely. I would imagine that there are houses that are about maintaining balance or maintaining status quo. You know I guess because the thing is as you said the ground isn't even about balance it's about inner balance. It's about saying that the scales may tip horribly against you and not in your favor and saying that there is nothing in life that says that that actually has to affect you and that your negative emotions are entirely separate from you know negative things happening to you.
Speaker 5I think it's just your son and grown as angelic messengers but I don't think they have any houses there Karl because they're not inherently there regional. Right. True true.
Speaker 11Do you think this kind of hard god talk about it is I guess because our whole idea is I mean I think maybe kind of their holy idea is like not maybe not annihilation but does this complete detachment detaching the mind soul from the consequences and inputs of life and reprogramming the self to say none of these things affect me. Gosh.
Speaker 5So maybe we do know the jingle again what pretty Sagarin is fortunate knowledge fortunate knowledge domain is knowledge or civilization makes sense. So ecstatic fate like nothing. Right. But what about no dry knowledge of your fate. Is that weird.
Speaker 11Well really quick question sort of a side thing. I feel like it will help us answer the knowledge thing. Why do you think that they're a god of civilization. I would say I would imagine that in a lot of scenarios like. This thing is as you said the green is not necessarily saying that there are. Do you think they even take a moral stance on things. I think their whole ideas about not being involved are I mean they're not lawful neutral as well. So right. And not just like on the side of the angels but like even just detached from pretty much like I think just conflict in general.
Speaker 5I think just all conflict is just like within the laws our conflicts is bad and things will fall into place. And when things fall into place then the actual actions are. But. Trying to force things trying to incite conflict will just make it easy for you.
Speaker 11So then the thing is is like what does that imply then about their domains of knowledge and civilization like how can you be. Does that mean that they say that civilization is good or it's bad. I mean if it is simply just a thing that is and you Senator and is less about determining things what is the association between civilization and fortune that civilization produces fortune. Maybe it's that civilization produces fortune because civilization is like wherever two or more people are gathered. You know this idea of like being a part of something. So maybe then there's a whole I'm just playing with this thought here but I wonder if it's maybe that there is and it's an insinuation about Fortune cannot exist without conscious minds and that's the interaction between conscious minds like it let's say you get the core basic idea of quote civilization to people hanging out together. One must if one person upsets the scales in the other person suffers. You know if I if you and I are the only people in the entire universe I and I get more food because I'm hungry. It is. I am fortunate that I discovered more food. You are not fortunate because you do not benefit from the food that I take from your mouth. Right. And so it's like. It's like there is there is there is ever these shifting scales and fortune is simply it's for both good and bad fortune. So I guess where I'm going here with this here is that. I wonder if you know are we seeing with this cosmology then that fortune does not exist in the in the animal kingdom. Can an animal animal be unfortunate or fortunate. It seems less. So for sure in animals and they don't really blend super well because you know animals Gardy kind of. Faded. So are we then saying that it is something in the spirit or the soul in this haloumi in mythology that then gives somebody the ability to interact with fate. I think that we like animals are basically like a complex biological machine and that the soul is what actually allows for freewill. Is that what we're saying.
Speaker 5Think of it this way. Because faith and freewill are very interesting connection. But the more the Mogar. The more you try. You're right. That the Greek conception.
Speaker 4No I don't. I mean the only thing that springs to mind is the like a plurality of some divine figure would be the muses. But I don't know if they're even associated with that. What are you talking about the three women who have the strings and the threads. I remember that Hercules Disney's Hercules.
Speaker 5You have the past the present and future and that's kind of the way they're modeled but it's also in a way like one of them gives you your thread. The other measures how long that threat will be.
Speaker 13And the third one cut snips. OK. So where does free will come into that then. Well the idea is that. Your fate you can never change the length of that your thread is the longer it is the longer you live the shorter it is the shorter it. But.
Speaker 5Trying to fight your fate typically makes it right it doesn't make a mystery worse because your face your fate. But you you know might have a worse time getting there.
Speaker 4Sure. So it's like if you don't resist your faith and that's that does actually sound a lot like what we're saying you centigrade is about is it's like you're gonna get there no matter what.
Speaker 11So why stress about it we all die eventually make your peace with that and simply live your life with as much joy as you can. Or I mean not even joy but just like peace contentment or contentment.
Speaker 13Good. OK.
Speaker 4So let's see. All right. So that's like I don't know I haven't. Does that make sense of the stuff I'm saying about civilization.
Speaker 5Yeah I was also thinking something along the lines of it's in the nature of the knowing to make civilization right.
Speaker 3And because I mean this gets back to why we call them the knowing in the first place which as you know again new listeners we call them the knowing because there was you know when we talk about people or you know humanity you know it's sort of a replacement for the word humanity since you know not everybody is even close to a human who possesses knowledge into will and perhaps even a spirit. So.
Speaker 11Yes so this is kind of getting back to like that. It is within the knowings nature to create civilizations simply by gathering together. And so when you blow out that idea. You know I suffer. And you benefit or vice versa to a much more massive scale. The entirety of all civilizations combined all knowing peoples becomes this massive net of those who suffer and those who benefit and that there like this ever shifting web of ties that because I do something you suffer. And because you do something I suffer or vice versa. Massive massive scales Yeah. I mean I feel like we're kind of on the cusp of something kind of profound here with this guy. But I think we haven't gotten there yet. So let's move on to knowledge.
Speaker 5I mean obviously there's the idea of the knowledge you ought to come to you do not go out of your way to wrestle it from others or you can't say yes OK here's something a little thread to pull on is what is the value of knowledge.
Speaker 11Why is it good to have them. For instance is. It valuable for me to have all knowledge in the world. Like maybe if we talk about cost benefit here like. If I'm intending to become an accountant what good is it that I learned all of the art history in the world is that valuable doesn't seem so right. So like it doesn't benefit where I'm going and what I'm doing there is knowledge that is pertinent and there's knowledge that isn't impertinent simply not beneficial to me and I'm kind of wondering is this sort of like you senator and is saying there is knowledge that is that will help you guide you along your string. And there is knowledge that has absolutely no value to cause it kind of feels like it's touching on. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this was sort of a Soviet concept. I feel like I studying this back in philosophy so this maybe was. This was potentially who are the people who the Soviets really looked at and said These guys are brilliant. There's that the guy who the German guy who was in England when he created his masterpiece.
Speaker 5You know what I'm talking about I can just are just a lot of German for me. He's right about the Soviets. I can't was not in England I think.
Speaker 11Yes Karl Marx and and Lenin. Don't fucking forget it. OK. Yes yes. Engels of course. Yes but like when we talk about I was thinking of Karl Marx that I think it reached way back into the into the into the annals of my mind. In highschool we were learning about Karl Marx and I believe one of the things that was a sentiment of Soviet thinking was that if communism is everybody learning and being completely equal or at least not learning but like everyone being completely equal then the only knowledge that you need to learn if you're a farmer is how to farm should never even intend to learn anything else because that will not make you better at being a farmer. And so I kind of think that there's almost this you know put you know potentially toxic way of thinking that is aligned with you centigrade which is I should only learn the things that are necessary for me to make it easiest to sort of like oil like lube up the wheels of my feet the gears that churned through my life.
Speaker 5Do you think there's an idea of like ignorances good in this way. Because you know if you like if you know too much you can't after you worry about too many things.
Speaker 4Yeah yeah. Like I think that there is definitely yes. Ignorance is bliss. And there's definitely this idea of. You know he that increases increases in knowledge increases in sorrow which I think is that that might actually just be straight up the Bible that says that but like. Yes that those who know it is better to know not than to know and be mournful and that.
Speaker 11And so then how that link aligns with basically just know only as much as you absolutely have to about the world. The less you read newspapers the less you hear about current events than the less upset that you're going to be about the way that things are because we're only just unnecessarily burdening yourself with negative negative.
Speaker 5I think there's something along the lines of listen. Knowledge is a type of power that having too much power. You want to use it to get into.
Speaker 4Oh you'll want yes you'll want to because power is the root of all Fortune having power giving power taking power. It is directly related to creating good fortune or bad fortune for people. And so if you don't if knowledge is power and having more knowledge then you run the risk of causing more affecting of the threads of fortune for one person or another.
Speaker 15Yes. OK that's good. That's that's kind of first a little bit there.
Speaker 5I think knowledge is one of those things we'll knowledge and power in this way. It's just like listen you should kind of stay away from power have as much power as you need to do the things you ought to do. But if you grab too much power right it will corrupt you and you will do conflict things right.
Speaker 4So who has conflict. Who do you think would be the most likely to lead. You know what. OK I get I get this kind of. I like this image.
Speaker 11So I was thinking in my mind who are the most likely people to lean into used Feniger and and and follow their ways and stuff I think. I don't think it's the peasant. I don't think it's the farmer. I don't think it's the merchant or the. Though these people certainly could if they you know feel so inclined or whatever it's not like the doors are closed to them. But I think that the people that this is the most attractive to are the disaffected rich yet they're people who there are concerns and can they can easily romanticize the concerns of the poor because they're not actually poor themselves they're not actually starving or hungry or trying to work for food.
Speaker 3They're not diseased necessarily or at least they can go to a cleric and be healed. You know they live in relative comfort but they can idealize the peasants life you know sort of a Wolden sort of thing. You know Thoreau who you know imagined and wax prosaically about you know living life on the land when in truth the land that he was living on was the Lord. And I think he was living with his wife although he never mentions that.
Speaker 4You know I just think it's kind of funny that like I get this image in my mind that that would be very attractive to those people because it's about saying like especially because it goes in line with I don't necessarily have like a plan for my future and so I don't really know what to do with all my time here in the world. Well I'm immortal and I live and I die. So it would be better and more attractive to simply just live as though you know to be unaffected. Yeah. So let's see. So then what do you think you Stenacron themselves is like. And how do they interact. Do you think they interact with their followers at all. Because I don't think that they're entirely just decet hatched from you know reality. I think I think that they I don't know if they're actually a silent God. I mean they are very powerful. I mean really their ideas about issuing all power about giving all power yes really.
Speaker 5You think they'd be pretty quiet.
Speaker 4Yeah. Which would make sense considering they probably don't have a whole lot of followers either the very isolationist. It's kind of it's kind of funny it kind of makes sense when you think about like a world where you know there is so much power to go around and these are the people who say Nah I'm good. Yeah I would imagine that that God probably doesn't get much recognition.
Speaker 10Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 16So yeah I think it's another you know he's that he says I don't Danny Boy I'm chilling out and you know if anyone's like a Sangram you know help me with this thing. He's very good.
Speaker 6Yeah I think I think he would say to help you with a thing would be to not help you whatsoever that is the greatest help that I could give you which also I'm totally getting this picture of I'm trying to think of what the Ninth heaven is I know I have it written down somewhere.
Speaker 11Whatever the name of that plane is I'm totally imagining that there is a place where it is like just the fields of mist or something like that. And there's just the place where it is just you feel like you could fall asleep here forever you know wherever it is and that there is a you know you know just these flat plains that exist within this heaven realm.
Speaker 4Notice he Hannis the stillness that there is there is these yeah these these misty plains I'm totally just imagining that you snigger and has a simple home or maybe not even a home but just like spends all of their time all of his time like laying in the grass just feeling the mist pass over him. And that's like his entire deity is that he is just like completely non interacting. He's the most boring.
Speaker 15No. No wonder we're having trouble talking about him he is literally the most boring God that's his whole goal of the ego. Yeah. Today you learn about the most boring guy. That might actually be a pretty good title just literally called the most boring God. Yes I kind of like that. Oh yeah.
Speaker 7I mean is there anything else we really want to say about the most boring God. I mean he literally is just lying in the grass not doing anything just getting like a little wet from the mist that flows over him. Yeah he just he wears like like brown or something. I mean I'm just picture and he just wears like a cotton she like a charlie brown cotton sheet with a hole cut in the top.
Speaker 15He's the Charlie Brown of gods. He's so boring I love it.
Speaker 7Yeah I kind of like I'm kind of like I wonder how the other gods seem like they maybe just go to him when they need to clear their head like they need to talk to somebody next to him. Yeah you sit down next to him and immediately you feel like all of your characters kind of disappear. Doo doo doo doo heaven for these people literally just hanging out laying in the grass with him not doing anything like it's not much different than being dead.
Speaker 4Yeah yeah.
Speaker 16You just go. You lay down.
Speaker 4Makes you think that he's like hey do you know maybe there's actually a different group of people that might also be attracted to you Senator and those who work extremely extremely hard.
Speaker 11The people who are super into Larian and stuff maybe there's actually an association there that maybe they actually recognize it's almost like this heavenly retreat this necessity of recognition that despite all of their ambition all of their success and failure and fighting and striving in things that sometimes they can just lean back and just rest. And it feels like this impossible unachievable on accomplishable thing. Like I can imagine you know a a tradesman a trades trades woman who's who's raised up in the artisan classes and is working very hard to oh you know what.
Speaker 3Well we'll wean in on of some earlier episodes. You know it has been discovered that she is got enough of a spark that she's going to trade school to learn a cantrip right and that her whole life is set in front of her of being like this is how you're going to be you're going to make mud huts for everybody every day. It is going to make you quite a sum of money a large amount of it will have to go back into the guild hall to pay for your membership fees or whatever. And she's been working super hard.
Speaker 11Her ass has been kicked in just trying to develop and come up with more information studies about how to properly make these huts as structurally sound as she can. And she for her for the first time in like two weeks you know like an overworked college student.
Speaker 3It just gets out on the green and just lays down in the grass and I can imagine that she would think back to stories that she heard about you know because nobody really is that familiar with you Senator Grainer you said and Greens people unless you straight up follow them.
Speaker 11But I can totally imagine that's just like closing her eyes and like laying in that grass and just feeling like Oh if I could just do this forever just not to just have a break from the insanity of my life and you know her mind sort of wanders and drifts up to that place and Kianna as Misty fields and just imagine that stillness and imagines being with you centigrade there that there is something so restful about that.
Speaker 5But right there's nothing that hard work or people can't or can't sing. Shankaran but has to be the case. They're not right. We're working hard right. To gain more power or whatever they were just working hard. I guess that's their measure. But they do it. And they're done. It's like it's like the farmer is like what he does is corn and he says the seeds goes to sleep wakes up super morning again. Right.
Speaker 4There's sort of a peace in the rhythm of that too and that there's almost this effortless labor.
Speaker 5I mean I can tell you right now. You get the most peace when you've done an incredible amount of work physical labor you never sleep better than when you've worked really hard. You're like I'm done. I can't really can't I can't do anything. After you die.
Speaker 11Yes. And that there is I think this is one of the things that actually makes you sound and good regional it's not just that the god is unpopular. I don't think that he's popular by any means but I think that one of the things that's suggestive about this is that there's so many different interpretations of what that is or how people kind of look at that because here's one example imagine that there are a strain of people who do kind of lean on the stand and grin and interpret the will or the nature of the grain in their daily lives as trades laborers artisans who work extremely hard right.
Speaker 3And they look across at the you know the to the other end of the city or to the people who are outside the city who basically can kind of live on quite a bit of money. And they say you know hey free your life. You know just live in peace or whatever because they don't really have to labor hard and you know they're just like oh I'm just living on the wings of fortune or whatever.
Speaker 11And so they look at those who work super hard and Labor super hard and they say you know O Brother why do you you know why do you toil so why do you know. You know simply you know if you truly instead of just kind of following the Senate grin you have not committed fully to the centre ground if you know if you live with so much toil in your heart it will always you know. Be a toxin something that infects you or diseases you weakens you because you will always be fixated on the work instead of fixated on the rest and freeing yourself. And so I think that there's something about like.
Speaker 4You know that in different regions there is no central thought about this because the people who are told that are going to be like and those assholes like those surfer dudes. It's all well and good to talk that way. But when you actually have to live and make years you know make a living for yourself and for your family to come up with such things is just absurd yeah. Anyways I think that kind of wraps it up unless there's anything else you like that you sort of had leftover about you Senator in.
Speaker 5No honestly I think giving it for them was boring.
Speaker 7I would agree. I feel like we got to somewhere towards the end. There's something very interesting. But yeah I feel good about about leaving this off.
Speaker 4Before we go though. Is there anything that kind of stuck out to you over the last episode. That might be worth exploring further in the future.
Speaker 5I thought it was interesting to be like the gods like Citigroup like hey I'm here to jail these Angel.
Speaker 7The houses are driving me crazy right now.
Speaker 4It's incessant war with the demons. Anyways how are you doing you Senator.
Speaker 5I'm curious. I'm curious of how the governor actually the killer. In that way. Yeah just even in general especially how different how different cultures interpret that. Exactly. Yeah. You think so.
Speaker 11Yeah. There's something really fascinating to me just with what we've touched on about this idea that civilization power and fortune are all intrinsically tied. Now whether that's true in our world or not or whether that's like a flawed philosophy there is something so engaging to me about this idea of the giving and taking of power as fortune that even in a society of two people there is of the fortunate and the unfortunate and I don't know I be curious to explore that more and to see how that sort of sentiment especially because sentiments like that oftentimes manifest in physical ways in the out due to the allegorical nature of haloumi things come alive of their own accord simply by being strong enough sentiment. You know that's literally how some of the gods have been birth. So yeah I just be curious to see how that manifests in Helmand how what people think about that. Or you know how that affects things. Yeah that is interesting. Well I think I'm pretty much ready to wrap up aside from that yeah.
Speaker 5Thursday. Wow I feel so relaxed now after all of this conversation about lying in a field Misty field. Well if you feel relaxed. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1The creation of a land for dialogue in their homes beyond and perhaps found some good material to add your stories make your own boring. You can or each add a little or keepers on Twitter. E-mail us.
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Speaker 5Local construction work. Yes. Maybe. And also give thanks to Jaso composition of line of heroes are keepers theme and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 15All right until next time don't forget there are always more boring God tales to tell.
Speaker 13Good bye bye.