Marketing Mambo

How MasterMind Groups Can Unlock Your Highest Potential with Chris Williams

May 09, 2022 Terry McDougall Season 2 Episode 19
How MasterMind Groups Can Unlock Your Highest Potential with Chris Williams
Marketing Mambo
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Marketing Mambo
How MasterMind Groups Can Unlock Your Highest Potential with Chris Williams
May 09, 2022 Season 2 Episode 19
Terry McDougall

Chris spends most of his time raising his five kids, exploring world communities, and trying his hand at adventures like shark diving, ice climbing, running ultra marathons, and riding electric skateboards:)

In his spare time, he works with entrepreneurial and business experts, speakers, coaches, and leaders helping them market, monetize, and lead their own high-ticket mastermind (or group coaching) programs.

As the world continues to shift, many experts are trying to build high-ticket groups for additional income, lead generation, or impact. Chris teaches experts how to generate leads, close high-ticket deals, and build strong, transformational groups. He has his own digital agency, leads two masterminds of his own, and has learned many of these lessons the hard way, so sharing his journey and offering strategies is why he is here.

To reach Chris:

If you'd like to talk to Terry McDougall about coaching or being a guest on Marketing Mambo, here's how you can reach her:


Her book Winning the Game of Work: Career Happiness and Success on Your Own Terms is available at Amazon

Here's how you can reach host Terry McDougall:

Her book Winning the Game of Work is available at Amazon

Show Notes Transcript

Chris spends most of his time raising his five kids, exploring world communities, and trying his hand at adventures like shark diving, ice climbing, running ultra marathons, and riding electric skateboards:)

In his spare time, he works with entrepreneurial and business experts, speakers, coaches, and leaders helping them market, monetize, and lead their own high-ticket mastermind (or group coaching) programs.

As the world continues to shift, many experts are trying to build high-ticket groups for additional income, lead generation, or impact. Chris teaches experts how to generate leads, close high-ticket deals, and build strong, transformational groups. He has his own digital agency, leads two masterminds of his own, and has learned many of these lessons the hard way, so sharing his journey and offering strategies is why he is here.

To reach Chris:

If you'd like to talk to Terry McDougall about coaching or being a guest on Marketing Mambo, here's how you can reach her:


Her book Winning the Game of Work: Career Happiness and Success on Your Own Terms is available at Amazon

Here's how you can reach host Terry McDougall:

Her book Winning the Game of Work is available at Amazon

Hey everybody. It's Terry McDougall with another episode of marketing Mambo. One of the things I love. Love so much about being the host of this podcast is that I get to. Interview fantastic people and share these conversations. With you all. But I also get to have very enlightening conversations. Where I learn a lot of things. 

That it helped me improve and move my own business forward. And today I got a chance. To talk with Chris Williams. Who's the founder of group, coach nation. 

And Chris Hughes, Tim Ferriss's book the. Four hour workweek to actually. I beat a four hour workweek. Workweek. I remember when I read that book, I thought it was a joke. I was like, come on. How can you. Really run a business in less than four hours. A week. But believe it or not, Chris figured out how to do that. He. 

He cracked the code by compiling great teams. The people and building very efficient processes. Chris was actually able to run his business. With only about 90 minutes of his own time invested per week. 

Week. And that's amazing. We're going to talk about a lot of things today, but primarily masterminds. And masterminds are sort of like group coaching on steroids. If you will, people will use them to get really massive transformations quickly. 

And I know that not everybody who's listening to this. Is a coach. There's a lot of you that work in corporate and masterminds are things that anybody can. In use. To be with like-minded people to help you. All move towards your goals together. And I learned some really interesting things from Chris also that there are people that work in corporate. 

Corporate that not only joined masterminds, but actually have started masterminds because we all have. Unique skills and perspectives that we can share with others. And for some of you, if you want to do a side hustle, Chris might have a few things. Things to share with you. You that could help you get that going. 

So. Now without further ado let the mambo begin. Again


Hey everybody. It's Terry McDougall here with another episode of marketing Mambo. And my guest today is Chris Williams. Chris is the founder of group coach nation, and he's got such an interesting background. He's been an entrepreneur for a long time. He shares with me a background in financial services.

He was. Certified financial planner. I believe I'll let him talk about that. But he also has some other cool things that he knows how to do. One of them is riding a unicycle and juggling at the same time. And then he also has another hobby that everybody in my family besides me would be jealous of, which is he has the ability to ride electric skateboards, I think sometimes at high speeds.

So Chris, welcome to marketing mom. How are you today? 

Harry. I'm so excited to be here. Oh my gosh. Let's let's have some fun no unicycles or skateboards in the studio today. I would probably destroy my studio.

Well, it looks like you got a lot of padding in there, so, you know, maybe not too many broken bones, but. 

Yeah. I live in a 15 by 15 foot padded cell, basically. That's my studio. And so it's is probably a safe flight. That's a good point. Lights and cameras in the way.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so Chris, I just I'm sure scratch the surface. I'd love for you to go a little bit deeper and introducing yourself and telling us more about your business. 

Absolutely. Yeah, let's jump in. And so here's what I do. I teach experts, typically business or entrepreneurial experts, how to sell their expertise in the form of a high ticket mastermind. So many of us, I used to be this way too. I'd be doing consulting or done for you services in multiple different spaces in the.

And you're out of time and you might get really good at it and you might raise your fees a ton, but then ultimately you're just trading hours for dollars. Right? So people go down that path of like, oh, I'm going to get an e-course going and sell my book and sell a three-part video series and all these other things.

And then I kind of realized, oh my gosh, let's just skip all that and go straight to the highest ticket possible move and sell the info and a mastermind. That's what we do. A group coach nation is teach people how to build those high ticket group coaching programs and masterminds.

 I can't wait to learn more because as a coach who works mostly one-on-one, it's something that I thought about in terms of how do I scale my business. But a lot of people that listen to my podcast are working in the corporate world, they're executives and rising leaders. And for many of them, they may be interested in, maybe rather than working in a one-on-one coaching situation.

Working with somebody in a group coaching or mastermind. So maybe you can just go into a little bit more detail about what is a mastermind and how is that different from group coaching and what are some of the pros and cons of somebody actually enrolling in a mastermind? 

Yeah. Okay. Let's just talk about what masterminds are. And before I say that, and kind of just define terms here about a third of the people who start masterminds, that we see it through thousands and thousands of people come through your. Third of them, which I think is so fascinating are actually from the corporate world.

bizarre to me.  I didn't see that coming. I've always been an entrepreneur. I'm not a corporate guy. I had one job. I worked for Eddie Bauer, the clothing store  in their stock room in college for three and a half months. And I completely burnt out because I was like, oh my gosh, it's too much structure.

I'm a horrible employee. So. I was employee of the month for three months, but I'm a horrible employee. Cause I don't want to do it. Someone else tells me to do right. So people who come from the corporate space, ultimately an expertise as an expertise. It doesn't matter where you gathered your info or where you picked up all the blood, sweat, and tears work.

It took to get you where you are. Somebody out there wants to know what. They want to know how to crack the code. They want to, to get the job you had. They want to know how to become a marketing expert. If you're a marketing expert in the C-suite they want to know what, you know, they want to follow your life.

So you just gotta figure out how to sell that. If you're getting out of the corporate space and trying to have a serious life change, like Terry, you talk about all the time because. So many people are just so burnout, frazzled, and frustrated life in your program, helps them get their heart back, their head back and their life back in shape.

That's where it all starts. Folks lean into Terry. If daddy, if that includes a, oh, I got to leave my corporate gig. I really want to be on my own. What do I do now? Here's an idea. Okay. So let's define terms, a mastermind or group coaching program. Let's start with group coaching program. A mastermind is just the purest expression of this.

A group coaching program is where you're efficiently taking a group of people through a transformation. All right. No big deal. That could be part e-course part reading a book together. And if you think about it, a book club is a group coaching program, 12 step group. If you're in the therapeutic space is a group coaching program.

You have an expert who's here to help everybody take steps forward in whatever transformation we're making life. And you have a group of people. Who are on the same path, supporting each other and helping everybody get results. Right. Okay. Group coaching is just an efficient way to change people. And here's how I like really got hooked into this Terry.

I was just be vulnerable here for a second. I had a really traumatic childhood, so started going to therapy sessions and then group therapy sessions, and then little bit of residential time, as well as just healing as an adult from childhood stuff. We all have those stories in our background. okay. I'm an entrepreneur. So I like cracking codes, right. So I'm probably horrible therapy patient too. But I realized in the group therapy sessions after like just five, six sessions, like, oh my gosh, I'm seeing more transformation in my own life, in a group than I ever did. One-on-one with the therapist, all of a sudden I'm getting like a head, like a year's worth of change in a group that it only took me a weekend and it would take me a year with a therapist.

Right. So I remember asking, a couple of therapists in my life, like, why is this happening? Why are we going faster? I'm changing pastor. And they were like, oh, interesting statistics and studies about this. Ultimately, the studies all boil down to this humans transform more than five times faster in like-minded like directional communities than they do on their own with one.

So one-on-one therapy is awesome. Folks, if you need therapy, go get it. Group therapy gets you there faster in that interesting Terry.

It is really interesting. I have heard this before and I thought back over my own experiences being in group coaching, and there's a lot of dynamics that exist in group coaching or masterminds that don't really exist in one-on-one coaching, you know, I'm a competitive person, you know, and if I'm looking around at the people in my mastermind or my group coaching program, and they're moving ahead faster than I am, or they're trying something different, maybe they've come up with an idea of something to try.

That may be the leader  would never think of, . I'm a lot more likely to be motivated to take action because of that. I also think that there's just something about being in a group, I mean, humans are 


and we're going to take our cues from more.

Points of reference when you're in a group, then if it's just one-on-one. then I also think that there's just something about the accountability that, sometimes we might feel like, ah, you know, my coach is nice, she's going to let me off the hook. If I don't do what I said I was going to do, but it's hard whenever you comment on everybody else in the group is like, Yeah.

you know, I did the homework and these are the breakthroughs that I'm having and if you're  left behind it doesn't feel. 

It's true. I'm competitive as well. And yeah, I know my one-on-one coach will let me slide because Hey, after all, if I take three weeks too long, they're just going to book me for three more sessions, big win, but in a group. Crap. I got to shut up next Tuesday for the group call and we're supposed to have our homework done.

It's 2:00 AM and I got to get it done, you know? Yeah. I'm totally the kid who was always cramming and writing the report at the last minute, but group session again, classrooms, group sessions. Right? Okay. Yeah. So the group thing works. I realized that in the therapy session, Let's talk what a mastermind is.

Okay. We teach group coaching programs, the whole continuum. All right. The more focused and more intentional and more private, more exclusive, more directed the program is the more it becomes a mastermind. Okay. So  in the purest form of a mastermind, masterminds have been around for thousands of years.

Nothing new out there, folks, nothing at all. All right. Masterminds, bring along a long time. The purest form of that is having a private group where no one outside the group knows who's in the group. So there's no name dropping, bragging, whatever that brings a lot of exclusivity. So the people in the group can actually bring out their real stuff and say, here's what I'm actually working on.

How do I fix this? Like, I want to get results, you know, no more BS. It's led by a leader. Who's already traveled that path personally. They don't just know a lot about it. They've done it personally and ideally taken other clients that same process. Okay. Terry, you're a great example of this, you know, your stuff, you've worked on your own life and now you take lots of clients at the same process.

It works. 


So a mastermind takes people who want to go through that process along with. Here's the deal though, a mastermind, isn't going to be course driven. There's not going to be a bunch of prerecorded stuff. We're actually showing up together, cracking the lid, open on a new topic, pulling it out, working on it, doing our homework, getting stuff done right there together.

The most efficient form of learning I do for myself as an entrepreneur. As a leader in my community is being part of a mastermind. As a student, I'm in a mastermind every year and I moved from place to place. I'm always in a mastermind though, because I get to learn very rapidly, change very rapidly and make the best connections at the same time.

 Yeah, I, love just even the name masterminds, because what it makes me think of is this sort of like the mind-meld right, where you come together and everyone in the group. Has different experiences, different knowledge, different perspectives, and when you come together in this shared goal of reaching, whatever it is, the mastermind is about, you can tap into that quote unquote mastermind, right?

You know, there's true synergies. There it's something that is greater than the sum of the parts. And, I do think that that's really beautiful. And one other thing you mentioned, I've actually gone to week long, really deep personal development retreats, where, you walk in, you share your first name.

You don't share your last name. You don't talk about what you do for a living. You were just there as a human being to share this journey with other people. And it's really amazing how. It gives you a very different perspective on the world and it kind of frees you from a lot of the stuff that kind of binds us to the here and now and helps us start to think about what's possible.

And, I've actually gone to two sessions with this one organization, over the course of a few years. And it's really cool. How at the end of the time.

together, People will get up and share, okay, this is my first name. Here's my last name. This is what I do for a living. And it's really interesting how  maybe you didn't realize that.

Actually one of them I went to, there was a really famous person,  that if I said his name and his company or anybody about like, oh my gosh, I know that guy.  I was just able to accept him as another human being. I had no idea who he was, you know, and it was just really interesting later to be like, oh, that's who that guy was. I was kinda wondering, cause there was something that was very charismatic about him, but most people wouldn't know who he was if they just saw his picture, you know, so super interesting.

I love that it's real. And it works that that's what it amounts to. You know, Terry, I think one important thing to mention here is, I just want to like save people time when I first started trying to sell my information. I didn't know that the group coaching model or mastermind model was the right way to go.

and I let me just define this also there's group coaching programs that are 75 bucks a month. We had like a thousand people in them and you get access to the Facebook group and once a month, Q and a call and some recorded stuff. Technically that's a group coaching program because a coach shows up once a month.

That is not a mastermind. And that is really just an e-course. All right. Let's just call it what it is. That's an e-course. All right. Cool. Cause every course you buy for 2000 bucks has a Facebook group with it and they all have a coaching call once a month, just call it it. no we're talking the real deal stuff.

So before I got into masterminds,  I built a digital agency. I'm really good at systems and people. And so I was taking my 16 hour Workday and I got it down to an hour and a half a week. All right. That's just me. I love systems and I love teams that work well. I'm really good at that. You're good at your thing, everybody you guys listening in.

You're good at your thing. All right. So great. Keep it up. People started asking me, Chris, how do you run your business? You have this team you're like always sitting around at Starbucks or we see you paddleboarding or you're traveling, or you are you like selling drugs on the side? Like. 


so I eventually realized  then they started wanting to tell him I'm doing.

And then I was like, I gotta start charging for this. So I started charging people a couple of hundred bucks to go to lunch with me and ask me questions. And I was like, oh my gosh, I think I just stumbled into an information. Yeah. So what I did is  I took our systems and our processes and how we do our hiring and firing and training all stuff.

And I put it in the form of an e-course 20 something videos long, all the templates,  literally everything you needed to do, basically a four hour workweek by Tim Ferriss just like explained out the wazoo because it actually works. This stuff works five different course versions of. Over five years.

And I spent over a hundred grand in ad spend alone, not counting the funnel bills and all this stuff had to go into. I sold one course for 19 97, 1 almost 

Oh, wow. 

Dude who bought it, never even opened it. Like he never logged in. I still think it was Jill, my wife, like just feeling bad for him. Okay. So five years into it.

 I've taken all the courses like I'm buying how to build online course stuff, constantly how to build funnels, how to run ads, like all of it. So what I did is I thought, you know, I gotta figure this out. I have the resources I have the time my agency was running well. So I joined Russell Brunson's high ticket mastermind.

I just went straight to the top. Like these folks obviously know how to do something. Everybody in there has an e-course that's rocking it. They're crushing it. Right. So I'm in Boise, Idaho with 50 other people. Time to introduce ourselves. I tell them, I just told you and they're like, awesome, Chris. Well, first of all, we'd all like to not work as much as we do.

So, can we like join your program? I was like, oh yeah. I would love to sell more than one. And they're like, well, cool. How's the mastermind. I was like, awesome. Been here for half a day. Now you people are the best people ever. No, no, no, no, no. Chris, Chris, how's your mastermind. The one you lead. I was like, I don't have a master.

Just told you the story is what I'm doing. Right. And like, no, no, Chris, we all started with a high ticket mastermind that we sold with organic outreach to confirm the market was there, the pricing was there, the offer was there, the content was there, then recorded all the mastermind stuff and resold that as an e-course.

Uh, huh. 

And I was like, oh my gosh, why didn't, y'all say that five years ago. So that night I hired two of them. To teach me my team, like, okay, what does this mean? And how do we do it organically? We didn't spend a dollar on ads. We didn't build a website. We didn't build any deliverables, not even a PDF. And seven weeks later we had our first mastermind sold out.

Wow. That's a great story. I love that. 

We made like 70 or 80 grand. Boom done. Yeah. 

Couldn't fucking believe it.

So I just want to confirm what you just said 70 or 80 grand. Is that what you made total or is that how much each person paid for your mastermind? 

Though. So they all told me I should be charging like 20 to 50 K for my mastermind. At that point, I was scared to death because I'd never tried to sell anything over. So I sold it so embarrassed to say this. I sold them for $5,000 seats in  the next group. I went up to $7,500 seats. And looking back, everybody makes those rookie mistakes.

I should have gone straight for it and started selling  at a real price point that was worth because everybody who went through that program quadrupled their income and started working half as much. Like it worked. No, I made 70 grand, 75, 78, something random like that.   In the first seven weeks with our full mastermind, but I was only selling at 5k a seat, but the thing was all of a sudden, now I knew the market.

I knew the messaging or their pain points. We had everything you would ever need for sales copy for ads to this day, Terry, we still don't run paid traffic to our master. 

Wow. That's wonderful. 

100% organic. It's all organic 

That's so great. 

high ticket buyers. 

People who actually want to make a serious change in their life. And they're like, no, you're the awesome rock star.

They don't find you because you ran an ad. So sometimes that happens. If you have an enormous audience like Russell Brunson, he can funnel people up or down or value ladder, whatever you wanna call. Because he has millions of people on his list and he's only selling, I think he's selling 175 seats total in masterminds right now per year.

And most of those are repeats. So with millions of people on a list and access to all his other friends lists. He's only selling 175 seats, a group coach nation we sell, right at 125 seats a year. That's all of our programs. And  you don't have to run any paid traffic because it's so easy to organically find the person who wants to make a transfer of.

would imagine that. When people have experienced the success that they've hoped for, that they're telling their friends, right. Then you probably have a waiting list for people that are like, Hey,  I want to have the success that John had or Sally had, 

We do have waiting list. And let me kind of break that down from that, Terry, because I think it's important for your listeners. So you guys, we do have a waiting list, but here's the magic. What you can do. If you have your own mastermind, you're going to get successful. You're going to make money.

That's the easy part. And so you're going to have a waiting list. That's going to crush you. So what we've chosen to do, and this is the same model we teach, not teach it to you guys here is never lean on referrals or people that come in from affiliate connections or anything like that. For more than half of the seats you fit.

And every one of your masterminds, if you decide to launch one folks, the other half of every group, you feel, we take 15 people at a time. So we never have more than seven or eight people that can come in from. Or affiliate links or whatever everybody else, the other half have to come from direct outreach, cold organic people who did not know who Chris Williams or group coordination was four to six weeks earlier.

Because that way you can prove, and you can maintain a sustainable business model. Otherwise, if you don't have a way to predictably control, Your flow of high ticket leads. You don't have a business. You're just getting lucky. Now. I don't want to get lucky.


Yeah,  that's a great point. And that's something that I've experienced in my business, as well as, you know, if you've got different channels or streams of clients coming to you, you want it to be diversified, right? Because  if there's a large number of clients coming from a particular stream, and for whatever reason, that gets damned up, You can be in a bad place.

well, so one of the things that occurred to me as you were talking is that, I've read Tim Ferriss's book the four hour work week and it's great. You know,  it's almost like fantastical, right?  For those of us who were like, oh, I have to go Get an MBA and like get on the corporate track and, work hard and, manage up and all of that. I would imagine that there's a lot of people that would have a hard time getting over their own mindset about whether what you're talking about is even possible.  It's sort of outside the realm of what they believe is possible yet.

It is.  In the last five years, since I left the corporate world, I've met plenty of people that like you, are making a really nice living without working 80 hours.

  Yeah, it's so doable, but you're right.  It's kind of, I think impossible in our minds because at least here in our Western part of the world, our mindset is so focused on nine to five clock in clock out. We're part of a bigger machine, a bigger organization. Typically most of us work for corporations, And we're trained since we were in kindergarten to clock in and clock out school starts is down that path. It's rare to have a person who's been trained to think, I could probably make that much money without the 40 or 60 hour workweek because we think the 40 60 hour work week is what does.

It's just simply not Tim Ferriss's book is a great explainer for this.  If you're thinking about trying to get your head around what this means, everybody go get the four hour workweek by Tim Ferriss. I've heard so many people say they've read it. Like most entrepreneurs have read it.

So many corporates have read it. And most everybody's like, this has gotta be hokey. There's no way this doesn't work. It's just a marketing ploy. No, that's how I started. I literally took the book, read it once I was like, that's cool. I wonder if it works.  Outlined the. I made an action sequence and I did it.

That's how it went. From 16 hours a day down to hour and a half a week. Okay. Like start changing your mindset around this because as Tim says, new wealthy isn't, how big is your 401k? It's how much time do you have? That's real wealth. Here's the resources that you choose to generate in the amount of time you choose to spend?

So  the easiest thing to sell and to be highly profitable with is an info market model of some sort selling what you know, and once you crack the code on something and believe it or not, you all have cracked the code on something start learning how to sell that because. that piece doesn't require an exchange of time for money, or if it does, it's extremely leveraged where you don't spend a lot of time for the money.

Yeah. There's a couple things that you brought up there that, struck a note with me. And I think the first one is. what's the definition of success. Right. And I agree with you that in the west, we've been sort of programmed to believe that it's, how much money.

do you have in your bank account?

How much is your salary? How many stock options do you have, et cetera, I mean, money is just a concept. You know, if I had lots of money sitting in my room here with me, It's essentially just a stack of paper, , it does not do anything on its own.

And so it's really around thinking about what is it that, that represents to me? What is it that I want, because maybe I can have what I want without getting a big stack of money, or maybe I can get a big stack of money with.  trading hours for dollars, which I think to your point, we've all been trained to think that way.


The people I work with in corporate, a lot of times  it's really around, how they can have bigger impact with less.  it's all about leverage. And I think that that's what you're talking about as well. And you're talking about some pretty extreme leverage, but why not? 

It all starts with a moment. It really does. That sounded so Disney princess,  which I'm a huge fan of. I watched Disney movies all the time, all the new Disney for the past several years. There's so good. Oh my gosh. So  it all starts with a moment and I mean that a moment of real life. Oh, my gosh, I see an opportunity and a window for my life to change.

And that's why people call you Terry. Then the next moment it starts with is realizing that it only takes a moment to change someone else's life, which is just beautiful. And then the next moment you realize, okay, I got to start segmenting these moments because some of those moments are highly profitable moments.

Some of those moments are ones. I just want to donate to that person.  Once you can segment that, then you can figure out how do I really make a business out of the moments that should be profitable.

 that's a really great point. And, I got so into my last point that I forgot to touch on the other, the other realization that I had when you were talking earlier. But other realization is that I see it so often that people do not know. Recognize and do not value the special knowledge or awareness that they have.

 I think one of the biggest problems, or one of the biggest issues that causes problems and even unhappiness for people is the fact that they don't value themselves. They don't,  lean into their innate worthiness.  And, when we can recognize that we've got.

Gifts. Each of us has gifts and strengths and perspectives that other people don't have. And  it's not a zero sum game. We don't need to compare ourselves to other people. There's plenty of wonder and wonderfulness to go around for everybody. And if we can just lean in and accept the fact that each of us is worthy, each of us has something special to share.

how great does that feel to feel like, I think that's what we're all seeking is. Well, somebody just please validate me, gosh, but guess what? We can do that for ourselves. 

Completely agree. I love that mindset. Like nothing were to say there. I love that mindset.

I love rambling shows like this. All you list, your listeners don't realize how much cool conversation we have. Pre-show and post-show like when you're in podcasting, because like we can talk about cool stuff. So, Terry. One thing.

I've kind of like, my mind has shifted. This is going to sound so conspiracy theorist and  I'm not that kind of a person, but follow me through you realize, oh, it's not a conspiracy. This is just logical. There really are aliens. Now it's not ongoing. I hope so. I want to meet some new people.

Well, who knows those  little light things that we keep seeing it, like what's that it could 

be, you never know. 

 Okay. So here's, what I've come to realize is logical and  oh, I wish I had learned that when I was a kid, when we're working for someone else in the corporate job, if we're thinking we're not valuable, Nope. Believe it or not. If you just wanna put a price on it, somebody in a corporation thinks you are valuable and they've labeled the price.

Okay. That is a,  really horrible thing to think about. People being priced okay. America and the world has come through some really dark histories of putting price tags on humans. That's not the way this works folks, but that is in essence what corporate life does to our souls. Okay. The other part of this thing is that there's somebody shareholders or CEOs or bosses, the lead of the entrepreneurial venture, you're into whatever.

There's somebody at the top of that ladder. Who said, I know the value of my time and I'm going to build systems and people to do it for me. Right.  And  they're doing the exact opposite of what they're asking and teaching you to do because they need you in the system. All right. This is where it sounds so conspiracy, but it's just real life.

Just be honest about it. You gotta figure out, okay. I know what that person values. They're not valuing you as a human they're valuing your time. All right. They know your expertise is valuable. They put a price tag on it. That means a lot of other people do too. And believe it or not, a lot of other people who aren't corporations will value your expertise.

  We have,  two people right now, Terry,  that are in our current mastermind, our advanced group. And they're in corporate. They're building a mastermind on the outside of corporate world. And I thought they were going to build  two separate people. And don't like this another group   they're going to build like masterminds that were about their expertise, like how to do human resources or how to do marketing or whatever.

No, they flipped it around. And I was like, this is so brilliant. One of them is a chief human resource officer. The other one is super high up in a really specialized marketing job. And.  Or launching your own masterminds to teach people how to get that type of a job in corporate America, I was like, oh my gosh, they realized their skillset.

Isn't just, I know how to market, or I know how to do human resource. It was wait a second. I've been climbing this freaking ladder for 20 years. I know how to climb the ladder.  I thought that was so freaking bright.

 It really is brilliant. And if you think about the return on the investment, if somebody  is struggling their way up the ladder, or they've  not made it to the next drama, but an interview or been passed over for a promotion. They don't know what they don't know, but somebody from, above them, somebody in that seat.

Okay. Instruct them exactly what they need to do. And it's often very counterintuitive to what they think it is because to your point, it gets to a point where it's not about how many hours you put in. It's really about understanding how you add value and making the business case that you're adding enough value for that organization, that your price should be higher. This is something that I coach a lot on is,  its impact.  It's not making the widgets it's coming in and saying,  how do I trade my time and talents and efforts to provide the maximum amount of value for this organization and how do I put a business case together so that they understand that, that they want to pay me more because, Creating even more value for the organization.

 And  I also really loved what you said about the people at the top of the organization, because, when I was in corporate and headed marketing for different businesses and it was very difficult to see some of the very senior level executives that I did need talk to.

But, so often we will not value ourselves, but yet when you're looking at somebody like that, who does not have a lot of time, who's got a lot of responsibility. They've got a lot of leverage over the organization. They understand, where they need to invest their time. And they're very strict.

Prioritizers right there. So 

it's really interesting. And  I think that if we all value our ourselves and,  to your point, maybe sometimes at this moment, we're not going to be making the salaries that. We're capable of making and whatever the price is or whatever your paycheck says, that is not your personal value as a human.

It just might be like what somebody values, the skills that you're trading. Like you might be able to do much more than what you're getting paid for, but, it's just a matter of keeping it in perspective and not losing hope and thinking like, oh, this is the only opportunity I'm  ever going to have.

I mean, the, one of the things that I think is really.  Eye opening. It's exciting. Sometimes it feels a little scary is about how much power we have,   in that, we can say to ourselves like, okay, keep those blinders on. Oh, I can let you know, I have to get another job.  I've got to do this or that.

Or,  I shouldn't invest in myself because, that's somebody $500.  I'm putting at risk, but  to your point that, you've seen people that have made many multiples on whatever their investment is. It's really about them believing in themselves and believing that the thing that they want is a worthy goal.

And Hey, I may literally put your money where your mouth is, right. Make it happen, make it happen for yourself that that's something that you want. And that, the bottom line is.  Everybody's worthy. I think everybody's innately worthy, but leaning into that can be a little scary because then big things might start happening. 

Yeah, they do happen.  And the coolest things happen on typically like the edge of discomfort, where you're like nervous and excited all at once. That's where the coolest things happen.  So find that edge  and find your expert, bind your Terry. Who's done. What you want to do is crack the code on what you want to figure out and go to the edge with that person or in that person's group.

And take action.

Yeah, that's so great. Well, Chris, this has been really inspirational for me and I hope that. People listening, whether they're entrepreneurs or there are people in corporate that are dreaming about doing something different, whether they have considered joining a mastermind or considered starting a mastermind.

We'll,  I hope that this has moved their thinking a little bit.   Tell us where people can find a Chris. 

Easiest thing to do is go to group, coach nation.   And here's why we put this site together. Terry. So group, coach, just helps anybody who's like thinking about, I think I want to be in the group coaching space or run a mastermind. Like I don't even know how to think about this yet. If that's you.

Then we have a beginner advanced and pro level way for you to , look at the homepage for free. You don't have to give us your email address or anything, just like sort out who you are, and then go down that path. It's kind of a choose your own adventure website and it'll help you, know what to do next with the information that you currently have  in your world, your expertise.

If you've already been running group coaching programs or masterminds, you're like, oh my gosh, like I've got to turn this thing up and get this thing efficient.  Like Chris has, you're going to be in that pro level group.  Go down that path,  ask us questions. Everybody's welcome. We have thousands of people who go through there all the time.

And  we just want to see you take action. We always say, do work, get results, just do the right work. Just do the right work.

Thank you. So group, coach nation, 

Group coach 

Yeah, there we go. Okay. Great. 

Before we close out. I want to ask you, what's the last word of wisdom that you'd like to leave our listeners with? 

 The last word of wisdom, I would say, be yourself in this process. Again, going back to  the Disney movies. I love to watch, I would say be yourself because we all think that we can't.  Ourselves out there in the market and start a Facebook group, or start a podcast or start prospecting or whatever you want to do.

If you're in to try something on your own. Yeah. You can. And if you try to be like somebody else that you see doing some cool stuff, well, that's them and they're attracting their market. Be you share your expertise and I promise you you'll find your.

Thank you. That is definitely a golden nugget of wisdom there. So Chris, thank you so much for being a guest today. I really enjoyed our conversation.

So glad to be here. Thanks Terry.  Everybody y'all have fun and, uh, interi. Great. Y'all shoot her a note. Like what lucky people you ought to hang out with her. 

 Thanks Chris.