Marketing Mambo

Life Transformation for HSP, Empaths, Black Sheep and Rebels with Coach Barbera Schouten

May 16, 2022 Terry McDougall Season 2 Episode 20
Marketing Mambo
Life Transformation for HSP, Empaths, Black Sheep and Rebels with Coach Barbera Schouten
Show Notes Transcript

Barbera Schouten helps Empaths & Highly Sensitive People with their personal development, (high) sensitivity, authenticity and/or soulful entrepreneurship.

She gives them the BOOST they need to ACCEPT themselves, get CLARITY on what’s really important and connect with their souls mission, giving them the energy, confidence, and courage they need to take MASSIVE action and create a life that makes their heart sing and a soulful business that supports that FREEDOM lifestyle.

Barbera helps people:
- ACCEPT themselves and be PROUD of who they are, so they stop feeling like an IMPOSTER
- LEARN all about their Talents, Gifts & Capacities, so they can use them as their SUPER POWERS
- OVERCOME limiting beliefs and other obstacles that are holding them back, so they can step into their Zone of Genius
- MANAGE their energy, emotions & stress levels, so they don't feel DRAINED or EXHAUSTED
- And much MORE!

Barbera's WHY:  "I believe you are created to be a wonderfully unique human being that is put here on earth to fulfill a mission. Once you accept who you are, step into your purpose and live your truth, your true potential becomes unlimited and you become the conscious creator of the life you truly want to live."

Get in touch with Barbera at:

If you'd like to talk to Terry McDougall about coaching or being a guest on Marketing Mambo, here's how you can reach her:


Her book Winning the Game of Work: Career Happiness and Success on Your Own Terms is available at Amazon

Here's how you can reach host Terry McDougall:

Her book Winning the Game of Work is available at Amazon

Hey everybody.  It's Terry McDougall with marketing Mambo, and I am very excited to welcome today as my guest Barbara scouting. Who is a coach, but she actually doesn't like to go by the title of coach. She likes to go by transformation guide. Because she helps people to unlock their true potential. Because way too often, we lose touch with who we actually came to earth to be. And if that doesn't scare you off too much, 

I think they're really going to enjoy the conversation that we had today, because it really is about. Being able to accept ourselves for who we are. And to lean into that, to discover our superpowers, to feel comfortable with that, to understand that being different from others. That there's no shame in that, that we all are unique and that we all are. 

Incomparable. So I loved talking with her. I hope that you also enjoy  the conversation and that you walk away from this podcast feeling inspired because I certainly did. So now without further ado let the mambo began.

Hi everybody. It's Terry McDougall with another episode of Marketing Mambo, and I am so excited to have Barbara joining us today from the Netherlands. And I'm not giving her last name because. As she told me, most people outside of the Netherlands are not able to pronounce it, but Barbara is a transformation guide and soul igniter.

And when I met her, I really wanted to have her on because she,  is somebody who much like me wants to help people be a hundred percent themselves. So Barbara. Welcome to marketing Mambo. And if you don't mind pronouncing your last name for everyone. So we know who we've got as the guest today.

No, I definitely don't mind. My last name is pronounced Skelton and the sch sound is a sound that is virtually impossible for most people, but,  I'm really glad to be here today. And thank you so much for having me.

What's really great to have you. And you know, I didn't really go into much of your bio, but if you wouldn't mind just telling us a little bit more about yourself and how you've found yourself in this. Interesting role of being a transformation guide.

Oh, yeah, it's been a long journey. I've been doing this now for nine years and it started off,  I was working for a boss and I ended up in a severe burnout, in hindsight because I wasn't being. I was trying to please everybody.  I was trying to be a good daughter, a good employee, a good girlfriend,  you name it.

And I tried my best to be it. And I also didn't really know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So I just kind of rolled into my profession. And from there on, out into different types of. Professions, but I never really chose my path because I wasn't myself. And if you're not yourself, then you cannot really determined what your path is.

And because I didn't know that that was something,  undesirable. That was what I did for the longest time. And that eventually led to me ending up in a severe burnout. And in that burnout, I discovered I'm a highly sensitive. That explained a lot of things about myself. I didn't know, before that set me off on my journey of self discovery, I don't like labels and I don't like boxes, but, knowing that you're highly sensitive is very simple.

It's it changes a lot, but I also discovered I have a lot more labels. If you're into that, I'm an imposter, I'm an extroverted introvert. I'm an ambivert, I'm a light worker, I'm a dark worker and I can go on,  the point of this is saying I am uniquely myself,  made up out of a whole bunch of things that create this unique hole, ,  that you're not talking to.

And I didn't know that at that.

Wow. Yeah, I absolutely love this because,  we're all many things and I was checking out your LinkedIn profile before we got on the, zoom today. And,  I see that you work with what you call spiritual rebels, sensitive leaders and intuitive impacts. And you know, we're both coaches and I work with a lot of people in the marketing profession and.

 One of the things that I have seen as that people who are creative and, you know, a lot of creatives I think would call themselves impacts as well. So they're sensitive, right? Because  they have access to that part of themselves where that creativity comes from. , I think a lot of people in marketing recognized that they were creative and at some point made this, rationalization that.

They would focus that creativity in the world of marketing so that they could trade that creativity for, an income. And a lot of times what it does is much like what happened with you is it ends up in a place where they're in burn. And,  I also was,  taken a look at  something that you had online, and I love this statement.

I'm just going to read it. I believe you were created to be a wonderfully unique human being that is put here on earth to fulfill a mission. Once you accept who you are, step into your purpose and  live your truth, your true potential becomes unlimited and you become the conscious creator of your.

You truly want to live. I really, really love that. And, can you talk a little bit more about how you can guide somebody from,  a feeling of disconnection from who they really are  to the light, if you will.

Yes, definitely. I've created my own five step process for that. And it starts with getting really clear on who you are. If you take off all the mosques, if you look beneath. If you dare to discover who you actually are, that you always were actually, when you came into this world, but that you sort of lost sight of, then you will discover a beautiful person on their knees.

And for various different reasons, people felt like they couldn't beat that person. Like I also had when I was younger and then we start looking. How can we take away, the limiting beliefs or the blocks or the faulty autopilot programs, or, you know, all these things that are stopping you from actually stepping into this beautiful version of yourself that you were always.

That's the first step. And for me, that's   laying a good foundation on the, your life, but also a good foundation on the, your business because most entrepreneurs are their business. And how well you are doing is how well your business is doing. So you need to have that strong foundation where you know who you are.

What's your strengths are what your talents are, what your gifts are, so that you can use them to your advantage, but also so that you know, what stuff to outsource to other people, because they're just not your thing. And that's also what I see going wrong with a lot of entrepreneurs. They, Commit themselves, for instance, to doing Facebook live every day, because you know, video is in, and it's a good way of promoting yourself, but they're like scared to death and everything in them says, I don't want this, but they push themselves because a business coach or a guru or whoever told them that's the way to go.

And that just doesn't work. And that's,  why is it important to know who you are so that you can use your talents,  in your marketing, in your sales,  in the way you present yourself to the outside world? So  it's getting to know yourself, it's getting to know your user manual. It's getting to know  your talents and your gifts.

Then there's the part of transforming blocks, , beliefs, , all their obstacles for the autopilot programs,  then comes the part where you need to look at your mindset.  Because your mindset is, I think the most important thing in your life and your business, have various sayings about it.

What you think about you become, your thoughts. Cause your emotions and your emotions then cause your actions and your behavior and your actions and your behavior then cause your results. So we often are not aware of. Thoughts. And that's also very important to become aware of your thoughts, but also to realize that you have a lot more power and control over them than you initially think. 


So that is also a very important part in what I do with people. And then I look at getting clear about what am I passionate about? What do I absolutely love doing? What do I feel is my mission or my goal. And because most people who are either highly sensitive or empathic or spiritual, we have a mission of goaling.

And even if you don't know what it is,  like I did, a lot of people that come with me, they have this feeling like, it feels like there is more, but you cannot put your finger on it. So clarity on that, but also what you believe in what you stand for. What's important to you, the person you truly want to be,  and your big dream, I cannot tell you how many people I speak to when I ask them, what is your dream?

They either don't know, or it's maybe going on holiday next.


Yeah. it's really, thinking small and, boy,  I am so inspired by what you're doing and  I also believe that everybody is here for a reason. what's your thought around this idea that everybody has the answer to their own question.

I think it is true, but it's much easier set them found.


You know, so in the end,  I think everything you want and everything you are is already inside of you. The key is to unlock it, to listen to the right signals. We all have this voice in our head, but it's actually not. I think there are at least five voices, maybe even more.

And there's the voice of your intuition, the voice that calls you to make the decisions that are good for you, but we've often been so cut off from our intuition that we either don't hear that voice, or we don't recognize that voice, or we're too scared to do anything with it. If we actually think. Then there's the voice of ego and ego's job is to keep us safe.

So ego is the one that doesn't want you to venture out into new territory,  even if it's really good for you say you want to start meditating every day. It's still ego's job to stop you from doing that because it's potentially dangerous because it's unfamiliar. And I'm familiar territory equals danger equals.

I need to steer you away from there because then I do my job. And if you constantly listen to that voice, you also will not go anywhere. So there are multiple voices and multiple things that you need to listen to, but also the signals of your body. That's what a lot of people don't do or don't do well enough when they end up in a burnout.

And I know because I was one of them and it's so easy to take an aspirin when you're having a migraine or take a pain pill when you have severe menstrual cramps or, you know, all those types of things, but they are symptoms of something that's going on. The signals of your body is the only way your body has of sharing information.

With you,  that's basically telling you, I don't like what you're doing. We need to stop this and we need to do something else. But most of us, we are in a go, go, go, go mindset. Or in a go, go, go, go life. And the headache is just a nuisance. So we take a pill. So we're not bothered by it anymore. And the same with all these things instead of stopping and thinking. Why am I having a migraine? What is this trying to tell me what is underneath this all, and then going on an adventure of discovery and then doing something with it. 


And that's the basis. Why so many people end up in a.

Yes. Yeah,  I agree with you a hundred percent and I think that it's really about managing your energy. And it sounds like you work with entrepreneurs. I typically work with people that are working in corporate and it can be so easy to get caught up in all of the external expectations and, and too.

really measure our worth by, okay, what's the title on my business card or how many zeros are on my paycheck? And it can really be a mistake to. Put your worth in the hands of, external validators. And I think that what you're talking about is really discovering that place of immense power that exists within all of us that, we can be what we want to be.

And it's very, scary  to recognize that because there is so much tremendous power there and, all of that. the way that we were socialized was for survival, right? I mean, when we're infants and even into our teen years, you know,  we probably can't survive on our own.

And so,  the things  that parents and teachers teach us is, how to stay safe, so that we survive. But I think for most of us, We want something more than survival, right? We want to be able to enjoy our lives. We want to get to a place where there's,  authenticity.

Ben joy and fulfillment and freedom.

Right. Right. And you know, some of the things that you were talking about there with the ego, the ego does put very tight boundaries in place, and to your point, you know, it is about survival. Okay. Stay within this very small comfort zone. So you survive, but there's not a lot of joy in survival.

You need to see it in perspective because, a lot of what our parents taught us, they were people that needed to rebuild the country after the world war. 

Yes, absolutely. 

So it was about survival and it made perfect sense then, but now the war is more than 70, years ago  already, you know?

So it's no longer about survival. It's now about the future and what you want in the future and how you want your future to look like. So  I don't just work with entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs. That I work in, but I also work with people that feel that they're stuck in their job stuck in a nine to five job that doesn't satisfy them.

A lot of gurus teach you that you need to narrow down your target audience and that you need to be one thing for one person.  I basically help everybody that is stuck or unsatisfied with their current reality. If they're working for a boss or if they're having their own business, that just doesn't really matter because it's about connecting with your authentic.

And who you are at a soul level. And then from there on finding out what your life trajectory should be, and it could be another job, but then one that nourishes you and it feeds your soul. It could be a business, but not everybody is cut out for having a business. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that a lot of times people get really caught up in what they don't want. Do you find that, when you're first meeting with somebody, they may say, oh, my boss is so bad and   all of the complaints about things. And I think it's natural a lot of times to get, attached to that.

Cause you want to avoid it, but I think that when you're. Trying to avoid something. It's almost like you become more attached to it. And I've found that what's really necessary.  It's okay to like vent and get that out in the open. But at some point people have to detach themselves from that pain and start to imagine what's the opposite of this, or what if this is what I don't want.

What is it that I do want, a lot of people have a very hard time determining that they know what they don't want, but it's difficult to really tune into what they do want.  How often do you see that and how do you help people get beyond that?

I see this all of the time, because most people, if you ask them, what don't you like, they can rattle off a whole list. But that touches on what I shared before that most people don't know what their dream is, and maybe go on holiday or buying a new house, a bigger house, a bigger car or something, but then.

you're touching on a universal law there because like the law of gravity, there's also a law that says like energy attracts like energy. So when you are focused on everything you don't want in your life and everything that's going wrong and how shitty it's making you feel and how much you hate your life, or how much this socks, you're basically inviting more.

That into your life, but you're not aware of this because if people ask you, do you want more? No, no, no, no. But why are you then constantly 

talking about it? 


Because by also talking about it, you're inviting more of that in your life.

Yeah.  I think it's interesting, one of the things I've seen and  I wrote about this in my book that sometimes I'll work with people that will say, you know, every place I go, the boss is always a jerk why do I always end up working for these kinds of people, like poor me. And  if that happens, once you can say, okay, that was bad luck.

Right. But if it happens two or three or four, Every place you go to work. It's kind of like, okay, there's one common denominator with this. And to your point, , if you're taking on new jobs, You're the one making the decision about where to apply, what jobs to say yes, to  in this could apply to friends, to boyfriends, to apartments, it could apply to anything  that you're making decisions about.

I think to your point of what you were saying earlier that sometimes people have to go a little bit deeper and examine what are their really deep, underlying beliefs about what they deserve, what they're capable of doing what they want in their lives. So, what would you say about that?

Hold dynamic.

This is also. Vacations don't help because you always bring yourself with you and you in bring your worries and your attitude with you on vacation as well. So,  there's nothing wrong with getting really clear on the things you don't want. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that because sometimes when you don't know what you do want focusing on what you don't want can help you get clear on what you do well, so,  knowing what you don't want in itself is not a bad thing.

If you use it to say, okay, I don't want to be treated shitty. Ah, so I want a boss that values me for the work I do. And then that's your focus because when you focus on the positive, you also invite more of that into your life. Hmm. What I see happening, why people keep attracting the same things is because they are not themselves.

So when it comes to a job, I don't know how it is with you there and where everybody is when they're listening. But in my country, people tend to feel shame when they don't have a job. And there's a lot of pressure in getting a job. So we usually don't really look for. Job for us. We tend to look for jobs that are potentially interested.

Then we apply for them. And as soon as one of them wants us, we basically jump into feet saying yes, but we have not looked at, is this a company I want to work for? Does it have the right morals and values that I value as well? How do they treat their employees? Is this actually,  a job that I see myself doing for a long, long time.

It's about not feeling ashamed, that you don't have a job. It's about paying the bills and having an income. And so usually we choose for the wrong reasons and then we get upset when it doesn't turn out to be what's unconsciously, we had hoped it would be.

Yeah, that's so interesting because I think that in a situation like that, and it's not uncommon. And I can't say that I haven't done it myself, but it's really about running away from an uncomfortable feeling, which is don't have a job. I don't feel comfortable with this. You know, so much of my identity is tied up in.

Who do you work for? You know, how much money do you make? What do you do for a living? And, you know, we as humans, a lot of times do, especially in the west,  that's a question that comes up commonly when you're first meeting someone who do you work for? What do you do?  will work with people, much like you, either that are at the crossroads.

Like, I don't know what I want to do next or are looking for jobs. And I think that a lot of times people don't really stop to say.  What do I want to do? What value can I bring to an organization? What problems can I solve? And so therefore we'll just keep going out to LinkedIn or,  the other job boards  and, spending hundreds of hours applying for jobs, rather than thinking about what is the unique thing that I can bring to the table to help an organization be more productive, be more profitable.

When I work with people that are in jobs search, I'll tell them,  the best way, especially for very experienced people to get jobs is through networking because. We don't fit into boxes, right? We're not square pegs fitting into square holes. And unfortunately, a lot of times, very talented people can do a lot of different things.

And so  they'll see a job and they'll say, oh,  I can contort myself to fit in that so that I can start getting the paycheck and I can stop feeling uncomfortable about saying that, I don't have a job or whatever.  They'll feel unfulfilled because maybe they haven't examined, what are my values?

What's the highest value contribution that I can make that it's going to have meaning for me in a job. And so they just do something they're capable of doing, but maybe just don't have any kind of, motivational drive to do.

You know, I call this the rules, the bullshit rules of life.

 They are the things that have been handed down from generation to generation about the way things are supposed to be. And you are supposed to have a job. Well, that's not true. You can also become an entrepreneur. That was an option that was never explained to me.

I also found out for instance, that I am a multipotentialite. That means that I am very good at a lot of things. I'm also interested in a lot of things, but I always. Taught that that is a bad thing that we need to be a specialist. We need to choose one profession. And even in marketing that also happens.

You need to have one target audience and they need to be either male or female, and they need to be either a employee or entrepreneur and they need to have. Or that it's, it's very black and white and don't get me wrong. There are people who are very good at being a specialist. If I needed open-heart surgery, I would want the best art specialist that there is, that has only that as.

So it's really good to have these people, but not everybody is a person like that. I am not a person like that. And I used to feel that because I switched around and then they call you a job hopper or stuff like that. Well,  I was finding out me and who I am and what makes me tick and they give that bad rep or give you a bad feeling. I remember finding out that I'm a highly sensitive person. And I went to my mom and I said, mom, I finally figured out what is wrong with me. Because at that time I still thought there was something wrong with me. And I said, I'm a highly sensitive person. And her response was, yes, Gerald. I know, but that's not something to be proud of. 

Oh, so interesting. 

And I was shocked. Yeah. And then, and I didn't understand. So I asked her to explain and  then going back to the rules, my grandmother taught my mother to be just like everybody else, because she genuinely believed life would be easier if you don't see. Out from everybody else. If you just blend in and go with the flow and are just a little bit in the middle.

So not the bottom, not the top, but  safe in the middle and in her time. That was good advice because they had just had the second world war and the whole group was upside down. And, my mother was born right after. So from my grandmother's perspective, it made sense. But. Rules are meant to be reexamined.

There are meant to look at, are they still valid? Do they still apply in the world of now? And usually we don't do that. We just take them in as you are older, wiser than me. She'll you probably know when I will just accept it without, 

Yes. I love this. And again, it goes back to that whole idea of survival, right? Which we, as a human race, of course we want to survive, but  that's. The lowest level of existence is okay. We're surviving. And What you were saying earlier about, you know, fitting in, back in ancient times or even world war two, 

 You had to be with your tribe, others who could care for you. And. Maybe being different might cause you to be ostracized for some reason.  And so sometimes back then people might have to sublimate parts of themselves so that they could fit in. But I would also say that people who are creative or highly sensitive, I think society as a whole needs these people, 

we need, we need all kinds of people. We need the people who are the. Rules keepers. We need the people who are sensitive. We need the people who can connect with others and go out and find the new ideas, et cetera. And if we can have


 If I can break in the funny thing is that in the animal kingdom, if you look at, mere cats, the highly sensitive, because high sensitivity is also in found in the animal kingdom, their Ms. Revered animals in the tribe, because for mere cats, the highly sensitive ones are the ones that are standing stuck still.

And that only move them.  That keep vigil. They are the ones that keep the entire tribe, the entire community safe, and because they are so vigilant and incense, so many things with so many more sensory information than most others. Do. They have a very high place in the tribe, in the group, whereas in humans, It's sort of seen as something undesirable,  in something  often called a disease or an affliction, what is not, and it's been seen as something to get rid of that makes you lesser than 

Yeah, think it's super interesting because I also believe that, the highly sensitive, that's a small percentage of the population. But just because that's a small percentage of the population we've got two.

Respect the differences, because as a population, we need all kinds of people and, just because somebody might process the world in a different way than those around them. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them. Maybe we need to be curious about what can we learn from that person?

Or how can we interact with them in a way  that we can benefit from their view of the world? I mean, honestly, I think that this is why it's important for organizations to have  the DEI initiatives in place, because. They benefit if they get the perspectives of everyone. 

But  I think that what's happened. , and  to your point, sometimes people might be highly sensitive, but they've been programmed to believe that there's something wrong with them. And so they may even be, shaming other people that are like them because they've learned this lesson from people around them that,  there's something wrong with them.

 If they act like that. 

And if you look at the corporate world, for instance, the highly sensitive person is an excellent manager because we are very empathic. We have really good people skills. So we are really good at managing people and all things that have to do with HR for instance. But also we have a very unique problem solving capability.

We can process information much quicker than most other people, and we can very quickly see. Solutions or if a solution is actually going to work, which is also very valuable in most businesses. So, you know, 20% of the world's population is highly sensitive. And to put that into perspective, 11% of the entire world population is left-handed.

Wow. Okay. Very interesting. One of the things that I've seen, and  this is me, as well, that high achievers are often addicted to external validation. And if you really think about the fact,  I've talked about this a lot that,  I can remember in kindergarten getting that gold star on the top of my paper and, you get rewarded for.

Starting to pay attention to what other people expect of you. And then, high achievers, they're like, I want more of that. And so they continue to focus on what's expected of them outside of themselves. And once they keep doing that and doing that and doing that, I think what happens is that they lose connection with themselves.

And,  interestingly enough, too, if you think about like the rebels in the classroom,  the kids that never want to listen to the teacher.  And  they're shamed for it, but I've actually read that, many CEOs were not top students. And I thought that was really interesting.

And then I thought, well that's because they trust their own judgment. They're not looking outside of themselves to determine what needs to be done. feel confident and they're connected with their own decision-making with their own judgment, with their own vision. So  how would you react to that? Hypothesis.

Well, we've come full circle to a question you asked me earlier, if I believe that the answer is already inside of you, and that's the case, we all have this inner knowing this inner vision. And I believe we are born into this world. As a perfect human being with our own mission, our own vision children know what they want.

They might not know how to get it. But they know what they want. They voice what they want often. And. It starts definitely at school with some parents, maybe even sooner that we need to unlearn the things that make us great to become just like everybody else, because society for the longest time seemed to value people Who were just like everybody else. And that's basically what schools are designed to be. Everybody has the same knowledge. Everybody has the same curriculum. Everybody goes through the same machine to come out of the production line more or less the same, and then problems start to arise. And then they need people like you like me to unlearn everything that they've learned in their school.

Time to go back to how they were.


Free spirited full of inspiration. We'll have ideas, the funniest thing. And that illustrates this point really beautifully is the first time we took my niece skiing. She was four years. She had never been on skis or maybe five was somewhere around that age. And, I learned skiing when I was already in my twenties.

And my biggest hurdle was to overcome the fear. I was constantly afraid of not having control of not being able to steer those things. And they went all kinds of ways except where I wanted them. And also the fear of not being able to. My niece, she put the things on and she washed down the mountain. And not me because I couldn't ski that well, but.

Her grandparents and her dad, mostly, they needed to ski author and go fast and yell, take your tones, take your door's not just going straight. You know, children. They don't really see the danger and we feel we need to protect them for it, which was why they were chasing her screaming. Make your turns.

Don't go so fast 


because we are afraid. She is. We are afraid and that fear rubs off on us. Well, we grow up.

Yeah. Yeah.  I loved this whole thing that we're talking about here. This idea of perfection, because I don't think there is any such thing as perfection. And when you're talking about children and their willingness  to jump in and learn things like I've observed it with my kids, with  technology, I remember when I got my first  iPhone, I used to have Blackberry and I was so confused about how to use it.  And my kids are like, mom, you just do this. And, and I realized like, yeah, because they have no problem with just experimenting and learning and you know, oh, that didn't work.

Let me try something else. And I think probably due to the way. Many of us are socialized that we start to think that there's a right and a wrong way. And if we're not doing things a perfect way that we're going to be shamed for it. When in reality, there is no perfection there just is what there is.

And  if we have to fall on our face to learn something like, I love this saying that I've come across, which is, even if you're falling on your face, at least you're moving forward, you're learning. Right. And  there should be no shame in taking action and learning and just moving forward.

And I really believe that it's the things that we tell ourselves about how we learn that hold us back.

Another saying I love. And this category is what are you think you can, or you can't you're right.

Yes, absolutely. I love that. Well, on that note, I'd like to wrap things up. So Barbara tell us where people can find you.

Well, I am on all major social networks, so you can find me on the HSP coach. And then Barbara with an E that's also my website. HP goes I love connecting with people. So find me wherever you are. If LinkedIn Facebook, Instagram, internet, it doesn't really matter.  WhatsApp. encourage everything and reach out to me because.

I love talking with people. I love meeting new people and I always have the first goal with everybody for free, just to have our jarred and learning about each other without it needing to turn into anything. So you don't have to worry that I'm going to sell you because I don't believe. Where's that way, you listen to this podcast.

You're like what I have to say, you're going to check out my website, maybe my YouTube channel or my podcast, and you can listen some more and then you decide for yourself if you want to work with me. Yes or no. I don't have to do that in a conversation. I just like to talk.

Yeah, that's great. And Barbara. Just from having known you  I know that you really want to make the world a better place by helping people be authentically who they are. So thank you so much for being a guest today on marketing Mambo.

Thank you so much for having me, Terry. We had a wonderful discussion and I think it's very valuable for a lot of people. So thank you for giving me the opportunity showcase what I can do.