Marketing Mambo

How Writing a Book Can Increase Your Sales & Marketing Effectiveness with Michael DeLon

June 27, 2022 Terry McDougall Season 2 Episode 26
Marketing Mambo
How Writing a Book Can Increase Your Sales & Marketing Effectiveness with Michael DeLon
Show Notes Transcript

Nearly 10 years ago, Michael DeLon escaped prison... Not a literal prison, but an emotional one. 

He was in a job that he once loved but had started to drain him - and he knew he needed to get OUT. He had a marketing background so he went out and started helping business owners grow. A short time later, he found myself back in prison. So being a man of faith, he asked to be led. 

He felt called to write a book, and compiled his marketing knowledge together and published it in 2013. That book changed his life and business. 

He began to mail propspects a copy of the book BEFORE their meeting, and by the time they got together, the prospects felt like they already knew Michael. They read the book, trusted his expertise, and the sales practically made themselves. 

Today Michael helped hundreds of business owners publish best-selling books that have earned them dozens of clients and thousands or more in revenue. 

When you’re a published author, you’re immediately more credible and viewed as more trustworthy than your competitors who are not. 

You can:

* Differentiate yourself and be seen as the expert
* Easily generate referrals without having to ask
* Convert more leads into clients without spending more on advertising
* Attract new leads
* Gain instant credibility and status

If you want to be an Amazon Best-Selling author without having to write a single word, contact Michael or go to to learn more! 

Contact Michael at:  (Get Your Credibility Score )  (Experts Speak Podcast)  (Company Website)


If you'd like to talk to Terry McDougall about coaching or being a guest on Marketing Mambo, here's how you can reach her:


Her book Winning the Game of Work: Career Happiness and Success on Your Own Terms is available at Amazon

Here's how you can reach host Terry McDougall:

Her book Winning the Game of Work is available at Amazon

Hey everybody. It's Terry with another episode of marketing Mambo and my guest today. Is America's foremost expert on credibility marketing. And he'll tell you more about what that means, but bottom line, if you've ever been in sales or marketing, you understand that in order to do business. 

Your prospects need to go through a process of knowing, liking and trusting you because obviously buying can be risky. If you do it with the wrong person. So it's really important for us to build that trust, to build that credibility. 

In order to move through that marketing and sales process. So Michael Dalon is my guest today and he is somebody who works with small businesses to help them be more effective marketers. And he has a business called paperback expert that helps businesses author their own books, which will help them with their credibility in the marketplace. So I think you're really going to enjoy our conversation. And speaking of books, if you want to learn how to be more effective at work, not only to be successful, but to enjoy your time at work. Check out my book it's called winning the game of work career happiness and success on your own terms it's available on amazon and any place that fine books are sold so now without further ado let the mambo begin


Hey everybody. It's Terry McDougall with another exciting episode of marketing Mambo. And my guest today is Michael Dalon. Michael is a marketing expert. And in fact, he's, America's foremost expert on credibility marketing. And I just love the idea of that. I can't wait to delve into that with him. He also is the number one best-selling author of book on Amazon called on marketing.

Well, welcome to marketing mom. How are you today? 

Thank you so much there I am doing greatest. It's a phenomenal day. I'm going to little rock Arkansas and it's starting to rain. Spring has sprung. And so, just glorious. It's a wonderful lake. Glad to be here with you.

Well, I can't wait to dive into our conversation cause I know it's going to be a really rich and interesting one. So I just scratched the surface of who you are. So I'd love it. If you would tell us a little bit about your story and what brought you here. 

Sure. No, that's great. I appreciate that.  The really long story that we'll do in a short version. Okay. So I'm a follower of Christ.  I've been married to my wife for 32 years. We've got four children, two biological, two adopted. We were foster parents for eight years, and God did a lot of work in our marriage early on because the first five years of our marriage.

We're like this because my wife and I are complete opposites. And even though we both grew up in church, nobody ever taught us how to be married. So after five years conflict in our marriage, we went to a marriage conference,  through a ministry called family life. And they taught us God's blueprints for marriage.

I didn't know he had blueprints. And so we learn how to have a good marriage. And I was in Christian radio sales at that time realized pretty quickly my clients didn't want to buy Christian radio. They wanted to sell their products and services. So  I had a choice to make, I either wanted to get really good at selling or really good at marketing.

So I chose marketing. I started buying the books, going to the seminar, following the guru was learning how to do marketing for small business owners. Okay. Now let's fast forward, uh, left the radio stations, went to a back when Amazon was just getting started years ago, that lasted about two years.

 That company was ahead of their time. That means they went bankrupt. And so I found myself, found myself without a job, looking at the ceiling, going, God, that's not the plan. What am I supposed to do? And spoke to my heart, says, Michael, I want you in a ministry to families. I want you at family life, that ministry that changed our marriage.

So we raised support for two years, moved from Indiana down to little rock Arkansas to this ministry.  It was like Nirvana. I mean, wow, this is amazing. I get to go help him build marriages and families thought I was going to be there for life. Six years later, I was on the leadership team of that man.

And they started going through corporate reorganizations. Remember when that was the wave? Well, it, it still is. Yeah, hold it. Wasn't my wife. After the third reorg, they rolled out the new chart and my name was no longer on the leadership team. And so they started shuffling me around the ministry to do different things.

And that started a two year term that I refer to as my prison term, because I was in a job that I hated at a ministry that. 


Well, after two years, I said,  I got to get out of this place. So I talked to my wife, prayed. I said, Lord, how do I get out of here? And he said, what do you want to do? I said, I'm gonna go help small business owners with marketing because they hate it.

And I love it. And he said, go. So January 1st, 2013, I stepped out of ministry and started my own marketing consulting firm. And I'd call you Terry. I said, Hey, Terry, I think I can help you grow your business. You'd meet with me. We'd have a great conversation somewhere in that conversation. You say now, Michael, what have you done in the last few weeks?

And I said, well, I'll help. Little marriages and families at family life said, that's super honorable way to go, Michael. I'll look at the time I've got another meeting, Michael, let's keep our conversation going and another time and we'll talk some more and I wasn't getting any clients. And my income was going down.

I was living on savings, my stress was going up. I'm like, I gotta fix this. So I went to my church one day, second floor. I was pacing back and forth and praying just, and how do I help Terry? Cause I know I can. And he gave me  this idea to take all of my marketing ideas and strategies and put them into.

And so I did, I published my first book on marketing back in 2013. Then I would call you Tara and say, Hey, I think I can help you with your marketing. You set an appointment. I mail a copy of my book to you a week later, I'd walk into your office for me. And there it was, my book was on your desk. Dog-ear highlighted and underlined.

You'd read my book in that meeting. Terry, you'd say now, Michael, in your book, you said, how do you help me do that? And you'd hire me. And the next person hire me and the next person. Oh, this is really cool. So  let me ask you a question. The only trick question of the day, Terry, what changed between those two meetings that you and I had did my understanding of marketing change?

Nope. Did my background in ministry change? Not at all. What changed was how you thought. 


when you got a copy of my book, you instantly saw me as an expert in marketing and you hired me. And that was the seed that got planted. That today is paperback expert. The company run in Stewart, where we help business owners in corporate executives create a book without writing a word, and then use that book to proclaim their message, to attract audiences and to grow their business.

Yeah. Yeah. 


That's what I get to do. I was a long 


Well,  love that story, and there's so many things I could relate to there. You know, of course I was in corporate for many, many years, and now I'm  a coach working with people who look at the org chart and don't find their name on it,

or bind feel like they're in prison at work. Right. And it's not a good place to be.

One of the things that you were talking about though, really intrigued me, and that was. How you help business owners and corporate executives, author a book without writing a word that sounds like a magic trick. Michael, how does that even work? 

It is. Yeah, it's really fun. It's a process we created. Cause when I wrote my book on marketing, I mean, I wrote it physically, right. And it took months and it was a laborious and, it was hard and I realized that business owners are experts at what they do. They don't have time to write really.

And they can talk about what they do all. So we created a speak to write process where our writers actually interview you. We interviewed to build the outline for the book bullet point by bullet point story by story. And then we asked you questions and you actually get to speak the content of your book, our writer, who's guiding you through this whole process, then transcribes your words, and then they do the actual writing of your book.

But it's in your words, your tone, your voice. Obviously you get to control all that because it's your book, we're just doing the hard work for you. We just set you up so that you can talk about the topic because you can do this all day long, and it's a much faster way to get your content out of your head and into print.

And so we just guide you down the process of creating your book without writing that word.

Yeah,  I have a book winning the game of work and it was laborious, I mean,  I was a marketer and I did a lot of writing as a marketer as we often do. So it wasn't like I was in neophyte, but it's still. Many months and, writer's block is.

a thing, right? There's a lot of fear.

And I think sometimes working with somebody that can guide you through the process, somebody who's helped others do it  is wise. I actually did go through a book writing program and it was really only because of that, that I was able to make it across the finish line I don't know if we talked about this before, but I'm one of those crazy people that I really think that if I put my mind to something that I can make it happen and I had thought to myself like, oh,  I think that someday I'll  write a book. And I really thought  I can write it on my own.

But somebody introduced me to a book writing program and I went through it and after going through it, I was like, oh my gosh, I am so glad that I did not try to do this on my own because it's not as straightforward as you think. I mean, , we've all read lots of books.

And so maybe we think that we know how to structure a book and the ways of writing a book and. many of us have lots of great knowledge that we can share, but it's not the easiest thing to get it from your head onto the page. And then once it's onto the page into print 

Well, right, because you've got editing and proofreading and formatting and design and ISBNs and tech. I mean, 

and the Amazon. yeah. I mean that 

alone was worth the price of admission was somebody to guide me through the 




Yeah. So we understand all of that. We take care of all of that for our clients. We ask our clients to the only thing we ask our clients to bring to the table is the content. Cause I'm not you. I don't know. You're the coach I'm going to help you get your content out.

We're going to take care of everything else because that's not where you make them money. Right. And you're not going to get rich selling your book on Amazon. you're going to gain wealth by gaining clients by getting speaking engagements, but like proclaiming your message to your audience, and they're going to be attracted to you.

That's where the money's made. Right.


Yeah. I'm thinking back to the question that you asked, about when you wrote your first book and you sent it out to people and then you'd go visit them a week later and you said, well, what happened between that first call? And when I went visit. risky to buy. Isn't it, it's risky to trust new people and to, hope that they're going to deliver the thing that you're expecting of them.

And, to your point, the risk has to be minimized in order for people to feel like, okay, I can let my guard down. I can be vulnerable about the business problems I'm facing. I mean, trust is something that needs to be earned, but often if you've got,  20 to 30 minutes speaking with some busy business owner, you're not going to be able to sit there and tell them your whole life story and all the reasons why you're the right person for them to partner with.

But yet the book gives you that opportunity. 

the book is an extended conversation. if what we teach our clients, because  we have a whole coaching program that goes with our book publishing program, because what I find is business owners excellent at what they do, but they've not been schooled in marketing. And so we cheat marketing systems and one system, we teach us that preconditioning phase, right where somebody sets an appointment with you.

It might be on. You could mail your book out, then send a PDF from actually physically mail it, which is what we recommend to give them an hour or two of one-on-one time with you in the pages of your book, reading stories, getting to know you. We create podcasts for our clients. We interview them on every chapter of their book so that they can go to iTunes and listen, or go to your website and watch you before they ever meet with.

Okay. So get that first meeting. If you've got 30 minutes, it might actually be a second or a third meeting. The barriers are down. You've built level of trust. Now it's really, are we a good fit? Do I really resonate with you? That changes the whole dynamic of that conversation,  you're not there trying to shell them or position yourself.

That's all taken care of through your book and in our culture, experts have books. 

Yes. Yes, they 

do. It opens up a lot of doors. My book's been out for a little over two years at this point and. It's opened so many doors in terms of being able to speak on stages to be on podcasts. I've been, pleasantly surprised that sometimes when, someone reaches out to me to ask about coaching,    I  go into my discovery questions about, okay, what's going on with you?

What are you hoping gain that sometimes they'll share like, oh, well, I bought your book. And  the reason why I called you is.

because I read this chapter and I felt like you were speaking to me directly.  Obviously.  Personally directly had that opportunity to speak to them. How would I know, but sometimes people find their way to you that way and the same with the podcasts, 

when people can hear you having a conversation and they say, oh, well she sounds like a nice person. Or she sounds like she's pretty smart. Or that she's dealt with problems similar to mine. It gives us a real, privilege and opportunity to be in people's ears. In a way that it's just not physically possible to do that, Right. 

Right. Well, and  it's a couple things we've all  heard, you've got to know I can track it. Right. And that's true. I'm so tired of that phrase because it's been around for so long, but it is true. I take it to the next level and say, credibility is what known for credibility.

Morgan credibility is really your level of confidence that your audience has in you. And it goes to, yeah, there is a risk In hiring you, are you really going to deliver? So when you build that confidence, when they see you as that credible expert, when they see that you're an Amazon bestselling author, when they listen to your podcast, they see your videos that all builds that credibility 

we just came from a vacation. We went to the beach, finally. Woo. And my girls, and I've got two girls that are 13, 11, and we were out in the ocean. Riding the waves. And at a point, I said, okay, Jenna, she's my 11 year old. I said, come back this way towards the shore because the waves were there. We were playing in the waves, but it's not the way in the ocean.

That'll kill you. It's the current underneath it. You don't see. 

that's right. 

Well, credibility is a lot like that current there's a lot going on as somebody , is sizing you up and doing their research. To know whether or not you're the person they're going to have confidence  in place that competence to get them, that deliverable, that transformation.

A lot of those are unspoken, but when the reading your book or watching your podcast or seeing a video there's something inside of them, that goes, yeah, this is the same person I read about. I heard on the podcast I saw in the video  I've now communicated with them. There's consistency in their message that breaks down all the.

Yeah, Yeah.  That's brand right. Brand is the promise that you make to somebody, if we do business, this is what you're going to get. And I think that leads to,  another question that I have for you, which is why is brand strategy and important part of.

Yeah, that is a great question. Terry brand strategy is super important because it's what separates you from everybody else. It's the first thing that we do with any new client is taken through a process where we discover their unique brand strategy. And I'm not talking about logos and colors.

I'm talking about stories. And what is unique about you? Everybody has a story to tell,  worked with one financial advisor who her childhood was replete with gambling because her parents were gamblers and they'd go to Vegas and win. Hundreds of thousands in life was grand. And a month later they'd fly to Vegas and lose hundreds of thousands and life was terrible and she got out of the house and.

Losing her money twice in the stock market, through bad investments and things. And she became a safe money financial advisor for retirees through that store, we found her brand strategy of don't gamble with your. 

Because it came out of her story now, as she goes to the market, instead of talking about, annuities and life insurance, she talks about, are you gambling with your life savings because I've been there and I want to make sure you never lose to the house that gives her a compelling message.

Every client we work with has a story like. And our job is to help create that. And then that sets the tone and the theme for the rest of the book. It's a platform, really? Your brand becomes your platform and that's why people read your book. They invite you on podcasts. They give you stages because you are approaching whatever you do from a unique perspective that is minimal.

Yes. I love it. I love it. And I come from a corporate marketing background. I worked in the corporate world for 30 years in marketing. And before I hit record, We were talking about this idea that you have. And,  I know people might listen to the podcast and say, oh, well, it sounds like Michael works with entrepreneurs, but we were talking about the idea  for many executives and business leaders, that.

Writing a book could be a good thing for them and for the brand of their organization. And I love to explore that whole idea with you as well. 

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, books are replete now with corporate executives who are taking their message of their culture. You know, I think herb Keller, right. Or the guy at Southwest airlines, he wrote a book talking about the Southwest culture, how he built that.  Obviously he's speaking, 

people are looking at them, they're getting more investors, but it also helps the employees understand how he thinks, and it brings better employees as well. Right. I mean, we could just go on and on how many corporate executives have done that, the challenges, they're going to do it   themselves, 

they're going to write a boring book. I'm sorry to say. Unless they have somebody like you on their team who understands it, the beauty of how we approach everything is from  that marketing perspective to go. What are you trying to do with this book, Mr. Or Mrs. Corporate executive? Are you going to be taking it out and get on stages to bring more investors Let's have that conversation first. And then let's tell the story in the pages of the book so that it can do what you need it to do. I was at a mastermind meeting two weeks ago, and the leader of that mastermind gave us all a book from a former Disney executive. He still represents the Disney Institute and he wrote his book.

He's out, speaking for himself and to represent Disney, talking about the Disney culture and the principles they've built into their organization, that other organizations want to know. 

Executives of all types could do exactly the same thing and we just help them do it without writing the words. 

We guide them through the whole process and say, now you've got this asset to your business. That's different than everybody else. And it's another platform. So absolutely 

corporate executives. 

I love that. And as you were talking about. executives.

putting their thoughts and their values and so forth out in a book. What struck me is we're hearing more about this every day employer brands. 


I mean, especially right now coming out of COVID I was actually just talking with one of my clients yesterday, who was saying that they lost one of their very valued and skilled employees to a head hunter, you know, head hunter came and they walked across the street and they're making more money and working less hours.

And,  it's really important for organizations now to realize that it's an employee's market , especially for very skilled. Employees, and it's very important to have a strong employer brand. Not only so you can attract talented employees, but so that you can retain them so that they think like there's not going to be a better place than where I work right now.

And I think to your point, having leaders communicate their vision and. What the culture is all about. That really helps to cascade throughout the whole organization. And  it literally pays dividends. I think back to Jack Welch, he wrote several books and, GE for a while was like the number one company in America,  the biggest blue chip company, under his leadership.

And I can't help, but think that,  Investors and employees, potential employees were reading that and were attracted to the company because  they understood what kind of leader he was because he communicated that in his numerous books. 

Absolutely. Yeah. And he became known, I mean, not just as a great corporate executive, but as a speaker people flying in. But investors are looking for that, america is looking for that.  Just like in a business setting, we're looking for companies we can trust. And too many times we've been bamboozled and taken advantage of, and those corporate executives make so much money.

They're all wicked. It's like, no, share the story. Talk about who you are and why you do what you do. Let me get behind you. And I do that through conversations. I mean, I'm not going to be able to have a conversation with Jack Welch. I just can't get to him, but I can read his book and say, you know, I really liked that guy.

I liked what he said there. That's 


yeah, yeah. 

I mean, good. Golly. current day, the Elon Musk, right? Does he need. Well, no. Did he write a couple books? Do people read his books and say, oh yeah. Oh yeah, they're coming on board. And he just continues to build company after company, after company, because he has money flowing to him because he's built this platform, 

anybody can do that. You don't have to be somebody like him. You don't have to be a major corporation. You could be an entrepreneur running a $4 million. 


do the same thing and make a huge impact  in your community.


You know, it's funny. Having been a marketer for so long, For big companies and then coming out on my own, one of the things that I observed was I came into entrepreneurship thinking that, since I've done marketing for so long that this is going to be easy for me. And some things were, I mean, I understand marketing, but  it can be very difficult to market yourself.

And, you were talking a little bit earlier in  this thought came to mind and I use it all the time with my clients, which is you can't read the label from inside the bottle. 

That it's very difficult for me to market myself because I don't see what's special about. Right. can't reflect because I'm walking around just being me and I'm not sure what other people see in me in terms of like, why is Terry different?

Why is she special? And so I think it's sometimes very beneficial to work with somebody that can reflect back to you. Well, this is what I hear that is unique about you. Or I think this might be a golden nugget that people would want to know. 'cause, when we're just in our own thoughts, we just think like, Oh, everybody thinks this way.

And that's not really the case at all.  There's certain things that are really unique and special about each of us that we just think everybody has. And it's not true.


So,  do you find that a lot when you're working with clients that they're like, oh, this is no big deal. 

every day, every day, because we're all so close to ourselves that we can't see it. Right. And  it's a matter of having that outside person. That's why, you're a marketer, I'm a marketer, right? I've been in marketing for years. I help business owners with marketing.

I have three marketing coaches for my company because I am so close to my company. I can't see it like you see it. And so when I have to have those needs, I can look at your business or anybody else, and pretty quickly size them up and say, here's your uniqueness. But it's only because I'm from the outside, your friends can do it.

Perry can do it. Right. So the other thing is these books, especially the corporate books, telling the stories. I remember Lee Iacocca back in Chrysler, right? Telling the stories of, when they brought out the cake. When they brought out the minivan and when he was leading it and he says, we want a convertible and the engineers were like, well, it's going to take us nine months and redesign all that.

And he's like, give me some welders and a chainsaw. And he went to the factory line and took the drains on, cut off top of a car. And it's like, that's what I want. Let's get it to the people. Right. 

Well, that was the LeBaron, right? Was 


I think it was, but it's that leadership that those stories that resonate with us and go, yes.

Okay. And then he talks about leadership principles and, Truet cafe, the guy who started a Chick-fil-A. he's written books and talking about the Chick-fil-A culture and why they do the things they do and how they've built this company from scratch. We all want to look into  that C suite.

But  barricaded. You can't get there. But when an executive comes out and shares the stories, the ups, the downs, the goods, the bads, and say, this is what we're building. This is why we do what we do. It changes the dynamic of everything

Yeah, that's so cool. It really is.  just have to share a little aside. You brought up Lee Iacocca. What was it? A Ford versus Ferrari. did. you see that 

movie with me? 


My dad was a car guy and my first car was a 1966 Mustang. And I bring this up because Lee Iacocca, he was the person that was responsible for bringing the Mustang. out.

And I know probably some people  listening are not car people. I definitely am a car person.   I've got a soft place in my heart for him because I loved my little car. 

Yeah. Yeah. But he knew, he had his pulse on the. He knew  what it was going to do to take that company. And then I remembered,  later when Chrysler was going bankrupt, and he was the leader. And I remember him going on TV and saying, working for a dollar a year because we're going to transform this company.

Now he was making it on the backend. Right. But the genuineness of Lehigh Coke on TV at that point in time, bonded America to him, that's when he came out with a taker, that's when he came out with a minivan. Transform that company, but he really transformed the lives of millions of people because you had a corporate executive who wasn't shy, who spoke.

And I think when an executives do that, it bonds people to them.

Yeah. That was back in the eighties. Right. And even some people, were I a Coca for. Do you remember that?

Yeah. Vaguely. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

How many people have you helped? 

 That's a great question. We surpassed 300 a few months ago. We've been doing this since 2013 and so over a decade. And we've helped a lot of people everywhere from,  a canine dog trainer. He trains canine dogs for police. To attorneys, to financial advisors, to automotive repair shops, to home health care.

I mean, we've done a variety of industries because the, that are irrelevant to me. The expert is relevant. You're an expert at what you do. I want to help you take your expertise and put it into a format that elevates you in the mind of your audience. So it'll capture their attention. Convert prospects into clients.

And then if you're a business owner, take those clients and clone them. If they was star wars day, did you know that we're 

recording this on the fifth? Yesterday was may the fourth be with you? Right. 

But in star wars, they had that the clone wars, right? Well, in business, we want to clone our clients. I want clients just like my best class.

And you know what, there are ways and strategies to clone your clients when you're an author that make it fun for you and them. So we teach all these strategies. 

And I believe most every business owner is an expert. Obviously corporate executives are as well. 

We just help them structure it and make sure their book is compelling and a fundraising.

Yeah. I have one more question for you before we start to wrap up. And that is, we hear so much these days about content marketing, and I would love your thoughts on how writing a book can help provide content for content marketing.

Yeah. Great question. So  And when I published my book, I think there are 32 chapters in it. Our process is we would set you up with a podcast. We would interview you on every single chapter. So there's content marketing. You can take every one of those podcasts.

Have it transcribed. There are 32 blogs. You now have 32 episodes. You can put on your YouTube channel, Facebook, LinkedIn tick-tock wherever.  You have. Speaking opportunities. Every time you go speak, you should be recording yourself. You have 32. What I call micro trainings. So we're all familiar webinars.

A micro training is about 15 minutes on one topic and it's 95% education teaching. And the last 5% is,  if this has been interesting to you, if you have some specific questions, just book a 15 minute call with me , we'll have a conversation about your specific, unique situation.

See if we can help you. 

Oh, I love that. 

Okay. That micro training, you can do one on every single chapter. So now, because you've created your book, you have all of this content not to mention emails. How many emails could you write on 32 chapters about. Well, probably 108, right? I mean, there's all kinds of opportunities there.

So when you create your book, what happens is you get this library of content. And the question is just, how are you going to repurpose it? 

Because really your core message. Doesn't change. My financial lady don't gamble with your retirement. She'll be saying that for the rest of her career.


Well, that's  a brand tagline, right? That's I love that. I love what you were just saying there. And I think about the book program that I went through and  it's a little scary when you first jump into the commitment of writing a book, because it seems so overwhelming. I was told, think about your book, is that the intersection, of X and Y.

So my book was about the intersection of career success and personal happiness, because so many people are unhappy, they're what I call successful, but not satisfied, so they're making money and got the title, et cetera, but they're not really very satisfied with it and, they can be.

but, that intersection, it gives you the bullet. 

Yes, absolutely. 

From which you're going to camp on your message, 


because that's how I know if I need to hire you. Uteri am I successful, but not satisfied, then I need to talk to Terry and  that's a great, interesting, it's a great line to go.

This is who I help, because if I'm successful and satisfied, I'm not a good client for 

you. Don't waste my time. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, I loved what You said about the content. I mean, you already got my mind going because I've got a 380 page book that? I haven't even scratched the surface of what I could do for my content standpoint. Well, Michael, my last question  is always what last words of wisdom do you have to leave our listeners? 

Thank you for asking that. always say, be yourself. You are more compelling and interesting than you think. And for a number of years tearing my business, I was trying to be who I fought you wanted me to be. And so I avoided video because I thought video had to be done a certain way and I had to dress a certain way.

And about three or four years ago, I finally said, and I just became Michael, and this is me. And if you like me, then let's work together. And if I offend you, then let's not work together. That's 


But it really just reduced all the barriers other, so  there are many people who are posing, who are trying to be, stop it, be yourself.

One of my friends, says your vibe attracts your tribe. 

I said, that is so good. Phil pollute. Yeah. Thank you. 


yeah, so,  just be yourself and just makes business so much more fun.

That is just such a great bit of advice to end our conversation on. 

Well, so Michael,  if people are interested in learning more, what would you say the next step? 

Yeah, honestly, go to my website. It's paperback from there. That's kind of like the hub, like your Mustang had wheels. And you had this hub paperback expert as our hub. From there, you can find our  three Facebook community. You can schedule the appointment with me. You can look at the testimonials with people's lives.

We've transformed. You can watch videos of how we do things. You can get a lot of our free trainings. You can connect with me. just the first place I recommend people to go to investigate, to see if we really are who we say we are. And then after that scheduled, 25 minute call with me and let's just have a conversation about what are you trying to accomplish is a book, even the right thing for you.

All right. I'll tell you if it's not. And then if it is, we'll talk about the process and all of that, but the website paperback is by far the best next step for anybody. Do some research, find out if we are who we say we are.

 Go through some of the trainings. We offer book a call with me. Let's just have a conversation. That's how we do things.

So if you would like to talk to Michael, go to paperback, and Michael, are you on LinkedIn or anything like that? 

Oh, I'm all over the place. Yeah. And you can find all of those Everything you need about me is at that one spot. And from there, the world was at your fingertips.

Well, thank you so much for being on marketing Mambo today. I really enjoyed our conversation. 

You're welcome. Terry has been an honor to be here. Thank you so much.