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Differently: Stop living by default. Start living by design.
Differently is for when you need to get out of your head and back into your life.
Created and hosted by Carla Reeves, creator of The Differently Journal, her work is built on over 20 years of helping people use writing to navigate real life. Not as a habit to keep up with, but as a way to calm your mind, get clear, and move forward.
You are always writing your life, whether it’s in your mind or on paper.
It's time to take the pen back.
Turn overthinking and self doubt into clarity, confidence, creativity and momentum.
Stop surviving your life. Start creating it.
Differently: Stop living by default. Start living by design.
Resiliency with Michelle Jones
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Do you know how resilient you are?
The mind likely wants to tell you otherwise, but Michelle has experience that tells a different story.
Michelle Jones, our guest today, is the President and Co-Founder of Trauma Integration, LLC. She is also a Certified Trauma Integration Coach and Founder of the Mindwell Collective. Michelle firmly believes in the inherent resiliency within each of us and loves uncovering the light and strength in the people she meets.
In this episode, Michelle shares...
- How our bodies are designed and capable of feeling a wide range of emotions.
- A simple practice to check in with the body and restore calm during chaos.
- How we can draw upon the inherent resiliency that lives within each one of us.
- And, more!
Open your heart and mind. This is a good one.
Join us on September 6th for a free monthly Mindwell Lunch & Learn. I will be leading an interactive experience on "Mind Your Time". Sign up to receive your invitation and link below.
Learn more about Michelle:
www.integratetrauma.com
www.jonesharbor.com
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https://www.integratetrauma.com/collective
Check out her previous episode - A Spark of Hope with Michelle Jones
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Thank you for listening!
I'm Carla Reeves, and this is Differently. Whether you feel stuck in survival, navigating a change, or seeking more for your life, may this podcast be your weekly nudge to take a risk to build a life that is uniquely bold, authentic, and in alignment with your deepest values. After a decade of coaching individuals from corporate leaders to creative artists to multi-million dollar CEOs, I'm convinced we are far closer than we realize to what we deeply desire, and it's a willingness to do differently that can change everything. Do you know how resilient you are? The mind likely wants to tell you otherwise, but Michelle has experience that tells a different story. Michelle Jones is back with us today, and you can go back to November of 2021 and listen to A Spark of Hope, which is her first episode. Michelle worked as a pediatric nurse in the hospital for over two decades. She's also the president and co-founder of Trauma Integration and a certified trauma integration coach. She's also the founder of the Mindwell Collective, which by the way is now hosting monthly free lunch and learns. And guess what? On September 6th, it's my turn. You can join us on September 6th for Mind Your Time. There will be a link to register for this free event in the show notes. And if you're on my email list, you'll also receive that invitation. Michelle firmly believes in the inherent resiliency within each of us and loves uncovering the light and strength in the people she meets. That's what this conversation is all about. Open your heart and mind. This is a good one. Hi Michelle. Good morning. Welcome back to Differently.
SPEAKER_01I am so excited to be here with you today, Carla.
SPEAKER_00Michelle, I am too. And I, you know, we've how long have we been in each other's worlds now? It feels like it's it's been a minute.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's funny because I was just trying to think back when did I record last? And it feels like it's probably been at least a year, but it's it's probably been coming around two years since all of um our connections came together as we've been um bringing together the Mindwell Collective. So I have loved every bit of it. I love how I learn from you every time we have a conversation.
SPEAKER_00Same, same. So if anyone wants to peek back, Michelle was on and I actually looked, it was November 11th of 21. Um, and her event is called A Spark of Hope. And it's it's one of the most listened to episodes um of the podcast. So I'm so excited to bring you back. And today we're gonna talk about resiliency. And I just know this is this is such an important topic. I think um maybe now more than ever. I remember years and years ago when our kids were, boys were I don't know, maybe like 10 or 12, and we heard some guy speaking on the TV, and he was talking about how the most important quality that you want your children to have is resiliency. And that was before all these huge changes in our world and culture and country and just way of living, right? And I I think that's more true than ever. So I'm so excited to dive into this with you. How do you describe resiliency?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was gonna say, like, playing off of that like thought that you just had too, it's like it's almost like we just want our children to be able to recognize that this resiliency is inherent in who they already are. Like, one of the things that I love, and then I'll speak to like how I would um maybe this statement will help describe how I define it, but then I'll expand on it too. I feel like one of the things that gives me the most awe-inspiring feeling is how many times I have witnessed that as humans, we were like perfectly designed to survive unimaginable things. Right? Like, like each one of us have had experiences in our life that that if we knew in advance this is what you're going to go through, we'd think, oh, I can never do that. I could never experience that, I could never survive that. Like, that's not something I could ever do, would ever want to do, etc. And yet here we are, you and I sitting here today, literal proof that despite whatever life serves up at us, we have the capacity to move through things that we did not know about ourselves that we could move through, right? And I think, you know, as a trauma coach, I see this like it's it's like something that I am privileged to witness every single day. That despite the huge range of things people experience in their life, here they are sitting in a chair across from me. And they may feel like um I'm broken, like I'm struggling, like they're like they're sitting here because something's not like working well for them, but then again, they're sitting here. Like everything in their life has come together to bring them to this moment where they are able to continue moving forward with hope. Like I love how you mentioned Spark of Hope was the title of the last one. It takes a little bit of hope to tap into our resiliency, I think, to be able to say I have at least a little bit of hope that I have what it takes, even here, even through this, to keep moving forward. And so maybe how I would define resiliency for the moment, I always love like leaving the caveat, like I have permission to expand on this or shift it a little bit as we move forward. But I love this idea that resiliency means that despite all of the things that I've experienced, I still have the capacity to thrive in my life and not just be in survival mode. That I have that ability to recover from the things that I experience.
SPEAKER_00This topic, you know, we kind of talked about this topic a, you know, I don't know, it was maybe a month or so ago, or maybe longer. But when we decided on this topic, I didn't realize it would be so personal in the in the moment. Um, we just sent off our youngest son to uh he's moved to California last week. And I can just see like the the play of resiliency, right? Both on my part and our part here in our home and my mama heart, but also for my son, right? Like he's going out into the world. And I think when our kids are little, like just like what you were saying, we think we that's sort of unimaginable. We can't imagine like sending our children off into the world, right? Exactly, yes. But then when we get here, we we do it, we do it, and we get on the other side of it, and sometimes it's not as hard as we anticipated.
SPEAKER_01Well, and like on the flip side, sometimes it's exactly as hard as we think it's going to be. Like um, this my daughter and I developed this shorthand in the last like three weeks out of necessity. Um, about three weeks ago, my uncle, who was like the mentor of my life, like um, I was so close to him, and I and in the last years of his life, he I was his medical power of attorney taking care of all of his medical things, and he passed somewhat unexpectedly three weeks ago. And my daughter, who's my last kiddo at home, would come with me often to go visit him and take care of him and do things with him. So she was very attached to him. And we developed this shorthand, which is I right in this moment, are you fine or not fine? Because the interesting thing in these situations is that there's moments when I'm not fine. It hurts, it's painful. I'm feeling this flood of grief and emotions, and my chest feels tight and it's hard to breathe, imagining my life without this man who has been like a rock throughout my entire life, right? But then sometimes I'm just fine and I'm laughing at what he would be saying right now, and what would he think if we picked out this or that and kind of reminiscing about fun or funny or silly things? And isn't that funny how even in the thick of grief and planning for this funeral, there was fine and not fine, and I'm fine and I'm not fine, and I'm fine and I'm not fine. And I wonder if sometimes we think resiliency means I'm just always fine. This isn't hard. Um, I don't have to struggle through this because somehow I'm above that. Like, like, like these things and these experiences of life, they don't push me around. Like, I'm just okay. And I wonder if sometimes we have that idea in our head that that's what resiliency is. But to me, resiliency is a lot more like I am learning that in all of my emotional states, I'm actually okay. Like, e even here in this moment of grief and pain, I am okay. And this moment of grief and pain is not going to last forever. In fact, in three hours, I'm probably gonna laugh because we have a new puppy in our house, too. Like, talk about the juxtaposition between like joy and grief coexisting. Brand new puppy just brought them home the the same week as my uncle's funeral. Fine and not fine, joy and grief, all living and mixing together. And the reality is, as much as we would like to think we can figure out like life hack, I can figure out the hack to not have to experience um all of the challenging sensations and emotions in my body. The truth is it's human. It's just human that we're going to experience both. And I'm wondering as we're talking and as I've observed before, if part of resiliency is recognizing that I am safe and I am okay in all of these emotional states.
SPEAKER_00That's such a beautiful idea because as you're saying all of that, I'm thinking about the last couple of weeks. And by the way, my heart just feels for you, and I'm sorry for your loss. Um thank you. And I'm thinking about the last couple weeks of all the emotions, right? And as much as we sometimes think we want to just be resilient and be strong, and like you're saying, have a hack for whatever that is, I wouldn't take away the emotions and the sadness and the sorrow and the grief. And as I, you know, folded the last clothes I would fold on the couch for him, you know, before he moved out. Like it wouldn't take away those moments for one second because that's what makes it all so rich.
SPEAKER_01Yes. It's it's almost like it's afraid of him, and yet we're relationship.
SPEAKER_00I felt afraid of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and I'm and I think so. Something that I've observed when I work with clients is that part of healing work, part of coming to a point where I'm thriving in my life and not just surviving, is that I'm learning that I am okay in my emotions. And it's so interesting. And part of the reason why we develop this belief. So many of us develop this belief as children, and we do it very innocently. We just pick up this belief that we're okay when we're happy and when things are going well, and when all the pieces are falling into place, and when my checklist is done, like that's when I'm okay. And when I'm struggling and suffering and falling behind, I'm not okay. And part of that is like this generational like lack of understanding, right? It's not like our great-grandparents had access to all this amazing information about how to sit with our emotions and how to um respond when our children are having emotions and that I am okay when I'm having emotions. But here is the one that was even more challenging for me. My children are okay when they're having difficult emotions, and I don't have to change it or fix it. So you have these generations kind of like just innocently passing down this sense that I am okay when I feel good in my body, and when I don't feel good in my body, that's something to be worried about, stressed about. Um, I need to change it and fix it. And so that mentality of if I'm in this state, I'm somehow not safe, not okay, I need to get out of this, change it, and fix it, means that I am not allowing myself to recognize like the huge, it's like I've made the like range for which I am safe in the world so small. I've made it really tiny and totally, and so it's like narrowed in the the like bandwidth or the wiggle room that that my body and my emotions have in which I feel safe. But if I can recognize that even here, even in this big expansion, um, I found it really interesting how different people um dealt with these emotions here. Like I was like firsthand witnessing it and experiencing it and connecting with it. And I agree with you, Carla. Like to me, I honored and allowed myself to just be with whatever I was feeling and a little bit to fall apart, right? Like standing at the graveside, I fell apart, but also what a beautiful testament to how meaningful this relationship has been in my life. That the loss of it is it is sad, and it is something that I will miss so much. And I think because I was able to just be there with that and know that this makes so much sense to be falling apart, like this matches. My husband has this joke that he's like, you know, it's not very realistic to say I'm never gonna be angry because sometimes anger is the exact right emotion to match what's happening, right? And in this situation, like sadness and grief make sense in this situation, but because of that, I just was able to, it's like I'm not just like white knuckling it through this whole process trying to hold it together. Like, no, I'm gonna full-on fall apart, and then guess what? Because no emotion lasts forever, within 30 minutes, I was able to connect and talk and like kind of laugh with other people around me. And we're meant to kind of ebb and flow between these states as humans.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so I just feel so much grace and love to like broaden that tightrope into like a wider path with wiggle room, like you're talking about, right? And I know too, and I'm sure you see this, but with my clients, like when they're experiencing friction in their life, whatever that is, I'm like, I get curious because I'm like something good's happening, right? Like, and if you look back in your life, some of the the hardest things we walk through or the the most enriching things or the most strengthening things, or we learn the hugest lessons, and so there's there's so much good inside of the friction, too.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and if we if and also, yeah, and like also this little skill has been really useful to me. So here's like a practical thing that I will do when things externally feel chaotic or stressful, or it's like spinning out of my control, and there's things happening that I don't like, whether it's globally or in extended relationships or whatever it may be. I love this idea of returning to me first. Like, like mentally, I literally take a step back and I return back to me, to the goodness of me, um, to tap into my inner wisdom and my inner guidance. And in a nutshell, I'm reminding myself that in this moment I am okay. In this moment I am okay, and now I can look outward. It's like I turn this whole focusing system that I have and I switch it from being outwardly focused and taking note and tuning into everything around me, and I'm just gonna tune in internally. And this can be like a one-minute process, it does not have to be this huge long, like one-week silent retreat situation, right? This is like I'm just gonna take a pause and turn it, tune into me. Notice me, notice my my okayness in this moment, how I'm breathing, how I am safe. And now when I turn back outward because we need to, we're human and we're living life, so I have to be tuned out and engaging in everything. Now I'm doing it from such a more centered place, right? And so that's something that has been kind of helpful for me in moments when my external circumstances are a little chaotic or a bit of a struggle.
SPEAKER_00I looked up the word resiliency before we um hopped on here, and it describes resiliency as the ability for something to return to its original size or shape after being compressed or deformed, or the ability to recover from or adjust easily to adversity. And I this idea of okayness in the midst of it, right? But now you're talking about okay, so there can be all this chaos, but then I can return to this quiet place and like restore and remember that I'm okay no matter what is happening, and it's like finding that peace amidst the things that are happening in our lives, and you've been such a good reminder to that. I was thinking that you're you teach about being in your body, right? Like being in your body, and now when I just see you, it's like this reminder to like be in my body, because I'm not always I'm good at like being in my head, and I know how to get in my heart, but being in my body is like a real practice, and so that's sort of what you're talking about here is like pausing and tuning in. So tell us a little bit more for people who um maybe aren't are new to that or it's a you know a real practice. Remind us how we do that.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I love that you use the word practice too. You know, when people in the Eastern traditions talk about meditation and some of these things, they call it a practice because we've never actually achieved it. It's an ongoing thing that we are learning, right? And of course, the easiest time to start to learn the language, I I I like to think really that our bodies are communicating to us all the time. But the and and some people are like, oh no, like like I get that other people are good at that, but I'm not good at that. But the truth is sometimes we just haven't learned the language of our body yet. And so when we want to be able to pull this down as a resource when times are really stressful, we can practice this idea of like returning to me when things are okay. So, like as an everyday practice for like a minute or so. And do I have it like on a schedule where I'm like tuning in? No. But am I pulled to this regularly a couple times throughout the day? Yes. And I'm gonna like tap in to think, what is my process? Like, I'll pause for a minute and I literally think the phrase, I'm I'm returning to me. I'm returning to me, I'm returning to me. And I will just notice how my body's feeling. What is happening in my body? I may not even be aware that I feel tension all through my shoulders, that my breathing is a little bit fast, that I'm kind of moving around more, whatever it is. I may not even notice that that's what's going on, right? And so I'm gonna stop and just notice what what am I feeling right now? What is it? And where where are my thoughts? What do I need in this moment? Do I need to move? Do I need to have a physical connection to someone to feel that reassurance? Do I need to reach out for more information? Like what do I need? Which I think sometimes as um mothers or caretakers or um even just women in general, we're very, it seems like we prioritize making sure other people are okay first, and then I'll tend to my needs. But I actually think that we do not only ourselves, but the people that we love a huge service when we take that moment and center ourselves first. So I'm gonna notice here's what I'm feeling. I'm feeling all of these sensations and emotions, whatever they are in my body. Good, bad, indifferent, if I'm feeling happy, if I'm feeling lazy, if I'm feeling um engaged and focused, like whatever it is. And then I'm gonna maybe ask myself a couple questions. In this moment, am I safe? And I would, I like at the beginning when I learned this, I'd literally look around the room. This sounds so silly, but like, is there a threat in this room? No, I am safe. Okay, so in this moment I'm feeling um tight chest, tense shoulders, but I'm physically safe. In this moment, am I okay? Am I breathing? Am I right? Like, are these things happening? Um, and yes, I am okay. Okay, so two things are true at once here. I'm okay and I'm safe, and my body's experiencing these things. Remembering that emotions are really just sensations in our body. And it's really helpful if we're not trying to resist those emotions that are coming. They usually reach their peak in less than 10 minutes. So this isn't something that is going to just roll on. You know, I think we have this fear that if I just let myself like put put down the barriers, put down the resistance, and just let the emotions come, I'm going to drown in it for days and weeks on end. But it's really the resistance that keeps it attached to us.
SPEAKER_00I was just going to bring that up. That I think there is a fear of like it's going to consume me, right? And I see it with my clients too, like their fear that that emotion is going to consume them, or that that emotion maybe did consume them for a period of time in the past. And so there's like a fear that that's going to happen again.
SPEAKER_01But the interesting thing, yeah. No, go ahead. Well, I was going to say the interesting thing is because I've definitely experienced this, right? So when I did my trauma healing journey in 2018, I had really suppressed and resisted all of my emotions, fear, um, anxieties, everything. I had suppressed it for like a couple decades. So sometimes I think that the longer we resist it, the more when we finally really relax into it. It's kind of big at first, which makes sense. So for 2018, there was some big emotions, and I did feel fairly consumed by it at many times. And that was a scary feeling, but part of it was because I didn't understand um how emotions worked in my body, and I didn't understand that my emotions literally can't kill me. Like I'm going to be okay. And it's it's almost like even if I let myself go there and feel everything and feel the flood of emotions come, if I'm still having fear of them and wanting to control it. Okay, it's it's it's fine to feel it, but only up to this point. It's fine to feel it, but only for this amount of time. That's still a resistance. That's still me saying, up to this level, my body's okay, but beyond this level, my body is not okay. So I'm kind of revealing that I have this belief that my body was not designed to be able to feel emotions and be okay. Right? And so I think a lot of times that fear that something's wrong with me, I'm broken, this is never gonna get better, that those are actually prolonging how long we're feeling these emotions and how long we're feeling consumed by it. And part of that is just a process we can start in little ways when we're not in such complete distress to just be in the moment with whatever I'm feeling. I'm feeling bored. Okay, well, let me just sit here and feel bored for a minute. Like, what if I don't have to change it? What if I don't have to fix it? What if I can just sit and notice how this feels in my body?
SPEAKER_00The control piece I think is so huge for myself and for the people I work with. Like, we do, we just want to have control over all of those things. And I I what you're saying just um there's just so much peace in what you're saying, like just allowing these things and trusting that we're our design is capable of holding these things and that they can move through our body. And going back to what you said earlier about being inherently resilient, and I'd like for you to expand on that a little bit. But I know, like, for for my kids, like my boys, they want me to see them as capable. It's almost like a gift we give other people to see people capable of moving through their own emotions without us jumping in and trying to fix or solve or change, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. I think I think it's very freeing, um, not only for us, but for all the people that we love when we stop feeling the need to fix or change anyone's emotions. That that, and part of it is not just that we can have confidence as a parent that my child is okay when they're feeling this uh this difficult emotion, but I can be okay witnessing my child in that difficulty motion because that's its own difficult feeling, right? Um I've got this like little analogy, and maybe we can put a link in the show notes about this tree. There's a tree called the Angel Oak Tree in South Carolina, and I've been to visit it. Absolutely awe-inspiring, isn't it? Amazing. It is like this most amazing, like sacred experience. I was kind of blown away by how meaningful it was to actually be there in the presence of this tree, which, if you haven't been there, you're like in the presence of the tree, like what are you talking about? But but but there's something that I learned pretty recently. So the angel oak tree is a type of live oak tree, and these trees are so re so hardy, like like they're the most weather-resistant tree that we have. Um, this this angel oak tree is like over 500 years old. It's been through some pretty significant hurricanes, right? Like category five hurricanes, and here it is still growing, thriving. I mean, it's its trunk is over 25 feet wide, and the overall like coverage of this canopy is for sure larger than my home. And there's a couple of things that make it so that even when these storms come, it is okay. You know, it has this really broad base and these roots that not only extend out wide but very deep. And so it makes it so that it's just inherent in a live oak tree that when storms come, it can tolerate it and move through it and then continue to grow after the storm has passed year after year, different than other trees here in the southwest, or maybe Arizona specifically, we have these Palo Verde trees. And when we have big monsoon seasons come and you go to the grocery store, like there's often a Palo Verde tree that's been knocked down, not so weather resistant, right? And when I think about us as humans, we are not Palo Verde trees, we are angel oak trees, and I think people are fearful that they are Palo Verde trees and that they're not going to be able to withstand that. But the truth is it's just part of who we are. Our bodies were designed to feel all of these sensations, all of these emotions, even incredible intensity, and recover and be okay. Like the human body, um, for those who don't know, I practiced as a pediatric nurse in a hospital for almost two decades. And the human body is phenomenal in its ability to heal itself and to be able to experience surgeries and all kinds of illness and devastation and heal and recover, right? And it is the same as well, you know, when we've been cut on our arm and we can see that scab form, and then eventually we're like, oh, I can't even find the mark where that happened before. We can begin to develop some confidence and have some hope that our internal system of feeling emotions and sensations is much the same way. We can experience the wounding and the pain of these significant emotions, and our body has the capacity to process that so that we can continue to thrive and grow and move forward after that point is finished. We are angel oak trees. We are live oak trees. That's just fundamental to being human, I think.
SPEAKER_00Say no more. I think you just wrapped everything up, just so incredibly beautiful. I think that just and I was gonna have you recap, but I think you just recapped everything. And what a beautiful reminder to walk away with today. Um so thank you. Oh my gosh, so much wisdom there. And I think just you know, yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01Well, I was just gonna add one more thing for those of us that have children to remember that even though they may not be fully grown angel oak trees, that angel oak saplings turn into angel oak trees or the live oak trees, like like it's it's just how it works. I'm not gonna plant a live oak sapling and it's gonna turn into a Palo Verde. Do you follow what I'm saying? Yeah. And so we need to remember that even though our children have not yet developed all the skills they will have in adulthood, it's fundamental to who they are, that they are resilient and that they will develop that capacity to do that.
SPEAKER_00What a gift that gives them and the, you know, other people in our lives when we can see them that way. And what a gift it is also for us. Like that just thinking of my children as angel oak trees, like gives me peace in my heart to let go and let them go out in the world and do what they're gonna do and trust and see them as capable and strong, and that they're they're on that path. And so thank you for that. Okay, so feels like a major shift from that um that message, but let's talk a little bit about Mindwell and what you've been doing with the lunch and learns and how people can get connected to that and join us next time.
SPEAKER_01So, Carla and I are both part of this Mind Well collective, which stands for Mindful Wellness, and we started doing this. We really wanted a more regular way to be able to learn together and to interact. And so the first Wednesday of every month, we do this virtual learning lunch where there's a different topic that we're deep diving. And actually, I'm so excited in September, Carla, you're joining us talking about time and minding our time and kind of understanding that. Um, in July, we talked about understanding trauma. In um looking ahead in October, we're gonna talk about healing through movement and in November practical mindfulness. So every month it's a different topic where um and it's completely free. You just sign up, join in, we record them if you can to 10 live, and you can ask and interact um with our presenters and find out that information. So we'll put that link in the show notes if you want to sign up to be on the email list to get um the live invite and the recording. Um, but I have loved how much this is providing just a great um deep dive into topics that these people that we work with have so much experience and understanding in. I feel like I walk away feeling a little bit more optimistic and and empowered than I did before I attended.
SPEAKER_00I completely agree. I went to the one um this month, which was Chris Heap on happiness, and it's such just a nice break in the day. Like bring your bring your lunch and step away and fill your cup, right? Like be inspired. I mean, I every time I walk away, like inspired with ideas, and so good. So I and Michelle, this is your like you you gave birth to this Mindwall Collective, and it just continues to take shape and form, and I feel so honored to be a part of it, and I just thank you for that and the impact that it's having. Thank you, Carla.
SPEAKER_01You know, I have absolutely loved not only the opportunity to bring some of these concepts to everybody, like I feel like we do this beautiful community education thing together, but the camaraderie between all of us that are working to help and empower people on their journey to wellness has been the most beautiful thing. I think we have this idea that like there's only so many seats at the table, but I feel like what we're creating is this sense that we are all better when we're collaborating and supporting each other. So I love that feeling too.
SPEAKER_00Totally agree. So we'll put all the links in the show notes. Um, we would love to see you there. And gosh, I feel more peaceful and my heart feels more full. And I'm just gonna imagine the Angel Oak Tree all weekend as I think about my kids out in the world and my loved ones out in the world, and I just thank you for um just being you, Michelle, today. Thanks for joining us, and I can't wait to have you back again. Thanks, Carla. Hey, thanks for tuning into this episode of Differently. I hope it stirred your thinking, and I invite you to take one inspired action from something that stood out to you. If you want to hear more conversations like this, be sure to hit follow on your favorite podcast app. And if this episode could impact someone you know, please help us spread the word and pass it along. Remember, new episodes drop weekly. See you next week.