Choosing Together - Neeley & Eli

What if your relationship could be a powerful commitment to always getting better over time? And what if being a mom meant modeling a healthy relationship with yourself, rather than always putting yourself last?

In this episode, I have a conversation with Neeley Reed, hair and makeup artist, and her husband, Eli Reed. I met Neeley two years ago and I quickly found out, she does life, differently. You are going to love the realness of this conversation, the commitment that keeps them moving forward and get ready to peek inside a marriage that is going to inspire your own love story.

This conversation deepens as it goes….  So, be sure to listen all the way through.  

Learn more about Neeley Reed at: https://www.instagram.com/neeleyjohairandmakeup
https://www.instagram.com/neeleyjohairandmakeup

Learn more about Eli Reed at: https://www.instagram.com/elireedhandcarvedwood

Learn more about Carla:  https:/www.carlareeves.com/

Connect on IG:  https://www.instagram.com/carlasreeves/

Learn more about Carla:
Website: https://www.differentlyco.com

Get The Differently Journal:
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Book a Complimentary Strategy Call with Carla:  https://bookme.name/carlareeves/strategycall

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Thank you for listening!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:01

I didn't have a an appreciation for how temporary this life is. And so I would make fights over stupid stuff. I would purposely push his buttons just to get a rile out of him and or just to just have my way. I really liked having my way and being right. That was really important to me when I was young. And um I mean, I was still young at 22, obviously, but at that moment in time, I realized none of that matters. And I don't want to be right and be alone.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

I'm Carla Reeves, and this is Differently, a podcast where we explore the ins and outs of what becomes possible when we're willing to think, do, and show up differently to the moments of our everyday lives.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

So I am really excited to invite you into a conversation that I'm gonna have with Neely and Eli. And I met Neely a couple years ago now, I can't believe that. Um and she I was introduced to her as someone um who could do my hair. And we I've sat in her chair for over two years now. We've had some pretty incredible conversations, and I quickly learned that she's a really incredible human. And while I've only met Eli a couple times, um I know that he's a pretty special human too, and I'm just really excited to dive into a conversation about marriage. I what I knew very quickly was that they've created something different, something intentional, and I'm so excited to kind of get in their heads and hearts and let you hear their story. So welcome, Neely and Eli. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Happy to be on and talk about one of our favorite things in life is our marriage.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

So why don't one of you start and just kind of paint a picture for people listening of kind of where you guys are in your journey today and what that looks like, and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

You're the painter, babe.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

I'm the painter. Well, we're coming up on our 25-year anniversary in April. So excited about that quarter century mark. Um, and uh at the same time, it doesn't feel like it's been that long at all. It goes by it's gone by really fast. Yeah, but when I start to look back at all the time and see our kids and how grown they are and stuff, it makes me realize that that is a big chunk of time that we've been together.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

So yeah, without the documentation of our children, it would be hard to believe it's been 25 years. But seeing Andrew as a grown man, married man, kind of hard to deny it's been 25 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, we have we have four children. Our oldest is married, he is 23, and then we have a 21-year-old daughter who's in college, and a 17-year-old daughter about to go to college, and a 12-year-old son who does homeschool. So that's kind of like the current status. Ela's in nursing school. Um, so and I run my own business. I'm a hair and makeup artist, and I have a studio of my own, and that kind of thing. So that's like the present day. How did you guys meet? Oh, you can handle this one, babe.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Well, this you'll get two different versions of the story if you ask each one. Always. But we originally met. I was 13 and she was 12, and there was a Halloween dance, and she was dressed up as a little witch. I don't think I was dressed up at all, was I?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah, I wasn't dressed up, and I was with a friend of mine. She was with a friend of hers, and I saw this blonde little witch running around, and I kept asking her to dance the whole night long, and she kept telling me no, no, no, no, no. She never danced with me that night. So it was uh I thought she was a little stuck on herself, but she's saying no, she wasn't. It had everything to do with her not wanting to leave her friend. So um that was the first time we met. Uh, and then we would see each other at different functions, parties, places um for the next several years. And then she was dating somebody else, and then she stopped that and she asked me out. She asked me out on our first date. We went um bowling, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

We did go bowling, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, first date we went bowling.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Well, I asked her to the Valentine's dance at my school, and we were going with a big group, and some of my friends were getting set up with people they didn't really know. So we decided to go bowling beforehand so everyone could get to know each other first. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And then we dated for six months-ish, like pretty exclusively. Um, it got pretty serious, and I think that kind of scared her off. It didn't scare me so much at the time, but it scared her, and she broke it off, and then we stayed, we stayed friends. I was friends with her family very closely, so she couldn't get away from me. And so eventually I wore her down and and we we kind of fell in love through letters.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Why letters?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

We were apart. She was at college, and I was uh I was doing missionary work, and so we were we were apart, and we so we wrote letters, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Yeah, we still have a lot of those letters too.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah, he when he was gone, um, when he left, we kind of mended things because there was a rough year where we just got on each other's nerves. I think mostly because he was hurt that I broke up and I could never give him a real solid answer as to why I broke up with him. Um, because I didn't really know it, just was something I felt I needed to do. I also I was very scared of commitment when I was younger. Um the thought of like having a partner forever scared the crap out of me. So uh it wasn't something that I sat and dreamed about. Oh, what's my husband gonna be like? I thought, how can I possibly get married when I can barely date someone past three months without not being able to be in the same room with them? That was an issue that I had, and I'm not sure why I had that. I still don't know why I was so afraid of that, but it just it scared me because I did take marriage very seriously even when I was young. My parents are still married today. And I knew it was something that was in my path that I was going to do. Um, but it scared me that I would like lose interest or that I wouldn't be able to stick it out with somebody because I just was always moving on to the next exciting thing. I liked the crush more than the relationship. I would always joke, I always tell my daughters like the quickest way to break up with me when I was young is to tell me you love me. And so um when things started to get serious with Eli, it was like double any of my other relationships. It was twice as long. Um, and I didn't realize it because he never was one to sit around and talk about stuff. We just had fun. We would, we were always doing something fun, just adventures and hanging out. I don't I don't remember like ever even just hanging around watching TV or anything. We were always going, going, going. And I liked that because I didn't want to like be in this serious adult relationship because I'm just a kid, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Well, and we still had our own, our own lives, even at that time. It wasn't like I had to be with you 24-7, you know. I had my friends and things that I wanted to do, and we both allowed each other space to do those things. So time went by really fast.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And I did love that because that was another thing that people would get, other guys would get like jealous of my schedule and my time being pulled from them. And so I always felt guilty, you know, if I had other stuff going on. But Eli always let me have my independence, and I never felt like he was trying to control me or make me something that I'm not, and so I I loved dating him, and but I could tell that he loved me, and I could tell it was getting more serious, and I did not feel that way at the time, and um it it scared me, so I I did feel strongly that I needed to break things off, and I do believe that that was something God was speaking to me to do, even though that sounds weird because we have been married all this time, but I do think that we both needed that time apart um to grow up or to um realize that we wanted to be together, and I think sometimes that's hard to do when you're in a relationship. It's hard to have that clarity. And I think for me especially, maybe he didn't need that, but I honestly don't think he would have gone to do his mission if we had stayed together, and then we would have maybe broken up later. I don't know. I think we both needed that time to to find ourselves really, yeah, before we got married.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Yeah, I love that it sounds like you guys came in as as individuals kind of joining your life together, and I think that's a huge important piece. But before we kind of dive into that, so you so you got married, and like I said, when we started, I could tell you guys did something really intentional. And I'm curious if did you both just start out that way, or was there a catalyst that really stirred that inside of your marriage?

SPEAKER_01 10:17

There was a big catalyst, I would say. Um when when I we got married, I was 20 years old, and Eli was 21, and and then we after a few months we were pregnant with our first child, and he was born in June of 97, um, and we got married in April of 96, and so uh he was born very ill, he had multiple heart defects and nearly died multiple times. Um, but he was born blue, and we just we were star-eyed and doughy, and we had no idea that our baby was gonna have, I mean, it it didn't even cross my mind that our baby would be unhealthy. Um, and certainly not that he could die. I just I'd never really had any major trials, I would say, up to that point. I'd had disappointments, but nothing that shook me um to my core and made me question everything. And so that did, of course, and for both of us, I think. Um we weren't prepared for that devastation. The thing that came of it in regards to our marriage is there was a moment when we had to both leave. I was getting checked out of the hospital after a couple of days of of after delivery, and my baby had to stay there, and I was dealing with it in my own way. Um, and then Eli was dealing with it in his way, the pain and all the emotions that were attached to it, and we weren't communicating, and so I had to leave, and it was the most hard thing. And up to that point, it was the hardest thing I've had to do is to leave my baby, and I was just going home to like shower and unload, and then I was gonna be back later that day. So, but the fact that I couldn't bring my baby home with me um was devastating to me and and to him too, but in my mind, it only was hard for me at that time, and and in his mind, he was going through something, and then we just weren't connecting. And so we got into the car, um, and we could feel like each other kind of nipping at each other. And I think in marriage, sometimes you do this competition thing, like, I'm more tired than you, and you try to list all of the ways that you're more tired, and then the other partner comes in and they're like, Well, I didn't sleep because of this and this. And you're like, but I didn't, I'm not not you, I am the one that's tired. And there's this competition thing that I think happens in a in a relationship sometimes, and that was what was happening in a real, real serious way with us. Like, we I was trying to think that I was in more pain than him, and vice versa. And so we actually sat in the hospital parking lot and we had a very long conversation about the opportunity for this experience that's out of our control to either bring us together or tear us apart, and that was the only thing in that experience that was our choice, and I think that was a huge moment for us as a couple.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Well, and this was before he even had his first surgery. We knew that this journey was gonna be long, you know. We didn't know how long it was gonna be, but he had four open heart surgeries, you know, and so we knew that we were just at the beginning of it at that point, and that it was only gonna get more difficult, not easier. And so we need to decide how we were gonna handle that, you know, and there was other things that happened. My appendix ruptured a week before I went into the hospital after his last surgery. She was on her own, hopping back and forth from hospital to hospital. Well, I almost died because I was, you know, septic from the poison in my body. So I mean, it was it was a rough rough.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

And this is shortly after this was pretty quickly after you were married.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Uh-huh. A year and three months, yeah. So I I that moment in time, that chunk of months, um, was huge for for us and and for me as an individual, I think it was really huge because I had this sort of I didn't have a an appreciation for how temporary this life is. And so I would make fights over stupid stuff. I would purposely push his buttons just to get a rile out of him and or just to just have my way. I really liked having my way and being right. That was really important to me when I was young. And um, I mean, I was still young at 22, obviously, but at that moment in time, I realized none of that matters. And I don't want to be right and be alone. I don't care about being right, and that just completely changed for me. And that that for me as an individual person was the greatest gift that I could have ever been given.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

What really strikes me is the moment that you guys had the conversation in the parking lot. Like, how did you like did that just come to you in that moment? Had you had similar conversations before that? Because to have that conversation that quickly in this situation, I think is is pretty profound. And just to actually see that that was a moment of choice, had had anything like that resembled that before then? Or was that just really new it from that moment on?

SPEAKER_00 16:24

I think it was new. I don't ever remember I remember we had had arguments, you know, um, prior to that, you know, and we resolved them. We're we're both very, I guess, gentle people. And so um, but you know, so we didn't have like huge arguments in that first year of marriage, and I don't know that a lot of couples do, you know, that first year of marriage is usually the honeymoon time, but I think this one was just so much so fast that we and we saw where it was headed, you know, that it was headed down a dark direction, um, you know, as far as the way that we were talking to each other and treating each other and how we were both feeling hurt about it. And so we needed to do something, you know, and we we were just we didn't know what else to do other than talk it out.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Prior to that, I would shut down if I was upset, and um I just would be snappy and kind of shut down and not really I I that was way, way before my vulnerability journey, which you know about, Carla. But um, so it was hard for me to admit when I was struggling, and it was hard for me to admit that I was in pain, and I really didn't know how to articulate those feelings sometimes, and so um, but he's actually always been a very um good communicator, and I've learned a lot about just having an open communication, and that's something that I wanted, um, and I think that I don't know, in that moment I really felt heard and loved, and I think he felt the same. And so it was a safe space for us to just get it all out there and realize what do we want out of this and what actions are gonna give us what we want. And what we want is to have each other's back and be on the same team. We're not on opposing teams.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

I love the idea of being team, it's something that Quentin and I have taken on too in our marriage, and something that I talk to my clients about. But, you know, Neely, you were talking about like the nitpicking and the controlling and the competing, and um it it's so common in marriage, and and we've experienced it in ours too. But this idea of being team, like we're we're on the same team. We're not, you know, if we can fight the issues and the circumstances and kind of travel through those together as a team instead of fighting each other, it makes a huge difference. So I imagine that that moment then rippled into how you navigated a lot of other things. Is that is that true?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, I think it I think it started there, you know, and but that was just like uh a starting place, you know. For us, what I think what that did was it allowed us to not be at that place, and I can't say that I never did this again, but where you wanted that place where you want your spouse to read your mind, like they should know what's wrong with me, you know, they should know why I'm gonna I'm gonna put up this attitude so they know how I feel instead of just, you know. And so um we got to a place where we are able to vocalize better um what those feelings were. But I think even at that place, a lot of times we would um hold back, you know, even for a long time, we would hold back because we didn't want to hurt the other person's feelings. So we wouldn't it completely express our feelings or completely tell you know what what was going on with us because we were we didn't want to hurt the other person, you know, which is a different issue, you know, and so some for a long period of time we may never have gotten the full truth out to one another of what we were feeling and what was happening, and that came a lot later.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

And what what was the impact of the holding back like that you guys saw?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

I don't think we realized that there was an impact until we had actually opened up to each other. And then it was like uh you know, leveling up in a in a video game. It was like, you know, the next level more powerful now.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

It almost felt like a baptism of our marriage. It it was like um when when that happened, because that was that was just maybe half a dozen years ago that we've kind of did that level up as Eli called it, where uh he uh do you wanna share, hon, what came to be about that?

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Oh, you're doing good.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Okay. Um well Eli was experiencing for years a lot of symptoms of depression, but um, it took a long time and kind of like uh a rock bottom place to come to terms with it and realize that he needed to get help and treatment for that depression. And through that process of going to therapy um and and facing that struggle, that attribute, um, as I like to call it, uh we our our marriage. Grew into something totally different where we both feel that we can be heard and that our feelings are valid and we can support each other in our feelings and that feelings aren't wrong. And so maybe sometimes they're hurtful to the other person, but if you approach it in terms of like this is a feeling that they're feeling, and what is my responsibility in that in the creation of that feeling? And so we both kind of try to listen with that, with those ears rather than a defensive mode of like not wanting to take responsibility for our part in it, you know. Nobody likes being wrong or accused of something, and a lot of times we want to defend ourselves and say, well, this isn't what I meant, so you're wrong for feeling that way, because that's not what I meant. But if someone's feeling in any way some kind of like feeling, pain or anger or frustration or invisible, then that's a valid feeling. And in order to move on from it, I think all of us need to be validated for that feeling in some way, shape, or form. And then at the same time, you have to be willing to hear the other person's feeling as well. And so it can be very difficult and very hard to have those conversations. There were a lot of years when I knew he was depressed, and when we were going through that depression, that I did not say a word about how I felt because I didn't want to make him sink deeper into his depression. For me, that caused a lot of problems because I became very unhappy and I began to question if we were going to make it.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

And and uh and I was thinking to myself that I was oblivious of what she was feeling at all. I mean, I was just into this dark place where it's hard to get out of bed, you know, and I didn't want to admit that I was depressed. So I she would she would if she would ask me about it, I would get angry, you know. So she she just didn't want to even approach the subject or how she was feeling because it would throw me off.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

How did you take care of yourself through that, Neely? Because I think that that's something that people um, you know, it sounds like your yours might have been a more extreme scenario, but I think people deal with that all the time, you know, when their partner is not in a good mood and you know, they're kind of bringing them down and they don't know how to allow space for your partner to be where they are and you to be where you are without making it wrong or trying to fix or change it. So, how did you navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 24:52

There was a time when I didn't do a good job of that. Um, I became really insecure, which I'm not at all. I'm not an insecure person. I have, you know, small insecurities because I'm a human being, but um for the most part, I'm I'm not a person that questions my myself all the time. And and that happened to me through that experience just because I just didn't really know how to handle it and I didn't know what the right thing to do was. I prayed a lot and I just tried to judge the moment and I tried to decide like what am I hoping to gain by bringing this up? And um am I likely to get that? I work out, that's my form of therapy, my favorite form, I should say. Um, I love to run and hike and do all that sort of thing. And I kind of leaned into my friendships with other women um to help navigate through that. And then I didn't I didn't give up on on him. And I know that sounds a little cliche, but every day I made that choice that I made in the beginning that this is my partner and that he's he's in a he's in a harmful situation. And so I I didn't give up every day I chose this is my partner, and whatever this is, we can get through it somehow. And I don't know how, but you know, we can. And it's making me emotional. Think about it because that is that is a huge thing to do, you know, and that no matter what you're going through, you can get through it. And you realize we're all very imperfect people and we all make huge mistakes that are hurtful to each other. And a lot of people just think this is not recoverable, that I can't get over this, you know, it's too hard. But I feel like what's so beautiful is really learning to forgive your partner and forgive yourself and move forward and not look back and not remain in the past. It was huge for me to be able to have be empowered to choose every day that this is my partner. And through going to therapy and having professional help, we were able to get to a place where we both became so open-hearted towards each other. And it it was worth all the pain and suffering that we went through to get to that place, you know, it was necessary, and it made us both empathetic, more empathetic towards each other and more loving towards each other, and to the point where it changed from being like, How am I gonna get through this to how can I make Eli's life more comfortable today? And he does the same for me, and that's kind of how we wake up every day.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

I think the key to this is that both parties were willing. Because sometimes you have one person in a marriage that is is willing to make that choice every day. I'm gonna make this work, I want to stay, this is worth fighting for, and then you have another person who is not in for the fight. They're not making that choice, and they they just want out. And if one person's in it and one person's out, it doesn't work that way. You know, we were both in it. We both were making those choices every day, and those that choice became easier as I was able to understand um how much that she cared and how much she supported and loved me. And I I at the point I was at, I didn't have an understanding of of the degree to which she did care. But once I was able to understand that, and I really knew that she was, you know, all in, and she wasn't gonna leave because of what I was dealing with and what I was gonna going through, that she was she was there, then it became much easier for me to be all in with her.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

I love that. It's like you can just feel like sometimes in life, you know, people we all have whatever we you know uh hurts or baggage that we bring into a marriage, and sometimes we can thrash around. And sometimes in the past, that thrashing, you know, pushed people out of our life. And when you can thrash in somebody's stays, I think it creates a lot of safety. One of the things I hear in as both of you talk is like, I don't know if you were conscious of it, but there was there was always a bigger something that was at stake for you and that you would show up to and that you kept making choices. And I think that's a huge, huge part, right? Because the journey is very bumpy of marriage. And if I think if you don't have something larger at stake, it's hard to keep showing up and it's you don't know what to align yourself to. So did you did you like did you sit down and create a vision of sorts for your marriage, or did that just happen?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Um, I don't know that like we had a specific, it wasn't a moment for sure where we sat and defined our marriage. It's been all the tiny moments and all the conversations. And one thing that's really important for us is creating a connection on a daily basis. And that's something we do intentionally. Um and I would say there's probably a few specific areas where we try to connect in at least one of those areas each day, whether it's intellectually with a great conversation about something we've heard on a podcast or a book we've read or something. Um, or physically, of course, is a big part of our marriage, physical connection. Um, I'm I'm not gonna pretend that's not a huge part of our relationship. That's when you share each other's energy and you really connect on a deeper place. And so the physical intimacy is a big part of our relationship and um spiritual connection, our our relationship to God individually and and together, that's important in our lives. And and then just you know, emotionally too, just making sure that we are sharing our feelings and and talking those things out. And so, of course, every day we're not connecting in all of those areas, but in in a certain area, we're connecting on a daily basis, and we're both really sensitive to the loss of that connection. And so if there's been a few days where we've I've worked too much or we've just not had the time, um, or we have not taken the time to make those moments happen, um, we can both feel it slipping away and and we get grouchy. And we both are quick to say, hey, we need to go out to dinner, we need to have a date night, um, or we need to go for a walk around the block and just talk and talk. Um, and so we're both pretty quick to kind of rein it back in and get it back on track. And in my mind, I have a visualization activity that I always do with in regards to my marriage. And I think I've shared this with you before, Carla, but I imagine that we're our feet are in line, walking on the same path, Eli and I. And if one of us takes just the slightest step to the right or to the left, then within a very small amount of time, we will be on completely different paths. It's all about keeping our feet in the same going in the same direction. We're both constantly moving forward and we're both constantly growing. And we have to make sure that we're doing that together and keeping that connection strong so that we'll remain on the same path.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

I love that. I because it sounds like you have a lot of independence in your marriage and a lot of freedom to do your own thing and be yourself and yet still have a really strong connection to each other. Um, I think that communication and that connection is really like the doorway to intimacy. And I think as couples, and I went through this because I was married and divorced first, is that once we stopped keeping that connection strong and stopped communicating about even the little tiny things that we stopped kissing and then that rippled into the bedroom, and like it all started to stop at closed, and I think that that commitment to that connection keeps that all open, and it is like a checking in regularly, and so some people would say that's like feels like a lot of work to me. It's I don't know how like we couldn't do it any other way now. For people listening that don't have that and want that, say a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Well, I think the key is to do it often, to check in with each other often, because if what happens is if you can check in often and you're you're able to communicate these little things, you're not holding them back, you're not holding them in, and then months down the road something comes out that's been building up and festering, and then you have to deal with that. If you're if you guys uh in your marriage are checking in with each other often, and they're just little things, you know, you know, about how you're doing, and you're able to get to that point where you guys can be totally honest with each other and hear each other, and then make little tweaks, little changes to make the other person's life a little bit better, a little bit easier with whatever's happening with them that day, then it's easy. It's hard when like for me with my depression, she would ask me about, are you okay? Are you okay? You know, for years and years and years and years, you know, and I I'm fine, I'm fine, you know. I I'm fine, it's just this or that or the other, you know, pointing the fingers.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

You keep asking me how I am.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah, and that's actually the words that were kind would come out of my mouth, you know. Yeah, what's making me upset is that you're asking me if I'm you know okay. Would you stop asking me if I'm okay? You know, that that became a problem. Then when we had to deal with it, it was really hard, really rough. It was worth going through it. But I look back and I wish, boy, I I I wish I would have just been honest with her much earlier on because I feel like I wasted so much time when we could have had the connection that we do now. Because now it's so much easier for us to communicate and spend time together, and we don't have fights, we don't really have arguments because we both are checking in so often that we clear the air constantly and consistently. We both know where each other's at. We both know how we're feeling, we know that if we need to back off or if we need to come closer, we know if the other person needs some time alone and they need some space, or whether they need, you know, some some time together. So we give each other that and we don't, you know, we don't get hurt by whatever they they're feeling. So I think that's makes a difference.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it like just being really tuned into each other, and I think too what I hear is that you're tuned enough into yourself too, that you're not collapsing their needs with um or taking that personally. And um that's beautiful. I think that makes a huge difference. Um so you talked about clearing the air. We we call it sweeping in our marriage, but it's like just a regular practice of sweeping the little stuff, you know, just like a little comment or a little look that maybe set me into a spin, you know, just saying, like, hey, you just you just said that and it made me feel like this is that what you meant? And usually 99% of the time he's like, no, it didn't mean any of that. And then it's done and over, and I don't have to sit and stew in it all day. And that's made a huge, huge impact in our marriage. And I think which leads me to the next area I want to explore is that we've been or I've been really exploring this idea from the time we met to that I used to fear that our magic and our love and what we had in the beginning was just gonna go away someday. Because if you listen to people and you look around, there's a lot of evidence that says like it does, it fades and it goes away, and you become like roommates. And I was because I had been divorced, I was so deeply afraid of that. And I used to imagine like this monster was gonna just show up at some unknown date and just kind of grab the magic from our marriage and that I was powerless. And then I had this other thought like, wait a minute, what if that's not true? And what if what if it's up to us to actually cultivate a space that we can fall in love again and again and again? And that that to me was like that choice point of wait a minute, what if we could do something different? And even if we fail at this, like we're gonna be better off, right? And so I love that you said like your marriage leveled up. Like I never thought about that like a game, but we've been married almost 20 years, and it it is a leveling up, like when you're committed and you're in the game and you're invested in it, getting better over time, instead of like marriage being the peak and it all goes downhill from there. I think that when you get married, it's just the beginning, and like it is a leveling up if you really intended that. So I'd love to hear what you guys think about that.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I think that that is so true. Um, and I think that it like I I have way more feelings of like excitement to see Hila and like that that those feelings of that chemistry and those feelings of affection have only increased over over time. And I think because we have been foxhole buddies for so long that um we and we haven't let any of those experiences define us, we allow ourselves to be malleable and to be shaped into whatever is needed for our relationship at the time, what you know, and I think the key to doing that is really having a strong sense of your own identity. And we've touched on it before, but we definitely both do that. We both are very engaged in our own independent lives, um, hobbies, things like that that fill us up, fill that cup so that it's ready to pour out all the love and all the support that's needed from us. And you can't pour from an empty cup. That's one of my favorite sayings. I probably say it every day of my life because I have to remind myself like, fill your cup, fill your cup, because it starts with me taking care of me, and then I can nurture my relationship. When I was a young mom, I would get together in playgroups, and all I would hear is like, oh, I never have time to shower, I don't have time for sex, I don't have time, blah, blah, blah. I'm so busy. My kids, my kids, my kids, my kids come first. And it was like a badge of honor that moms wore. My kids come first, you know, I'll do anything for them at my own cost, you know. And I just rejected everything about that. I was like, that makes no sense to me because my kids are gonna grow up. My whole goal is to get them to grow up and leave me. And then I'm gonna be left with nothing. If that's what I put my whole energy into, what's my marriage gonna look like if I put everything into my children? And and how can I take care of them properly if I'm not taking care of myself? So in my mind, and some people argued with me over the years, I will be honest, they would tell me that was a selfish outlook and whatever. Um, but I knew in my heart, for me especially, that wasn't gonna work. That that formula didn't seem to be working for them. I mean, who doesn't want to have time for a shower every day? You know, like I didn't understand their motivation for setting their life up like that, or they'd be like, oh, I can't do that because of my kids, or I can't, blah, blah, blah. Like, I I can do what I want. Like, of course, you make sacrifices for your family, but you can set your life up how you want it to look. And you can teach your children the proper order of things, and and they will fall into line and they will learn so much more from having a healthy, independent mom and dad rather than these haggard individuals who have no personality of their own and and no identity of their own. You know, that only teaches kids to be entitled and and to that everything revolves around them. And so for me, I have to take care of myself every day. I have to do at least one thing that makes me feel re refreshed, you know, and um, and then second comes my marriage, my relationship with Eli, because that's the one that's gonna stay through the time, you know. We are partners forever. And so, um, and then and then our kids come next. And that's been the order of things for for both of us for the majority of our marriage, I would say. We've tried to do that, and I think it's harder for Eli to do self care, but it's getting easier all the time. He's realizing that it's necessary.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

stuff but well one of the things that I notice is that you know when you're not when you aren't you're not whole as an individual you know using that analogy of the cup your cup is really small right and so it only it can't it can't receive too much and so it can't give too much either you know and so as you take care of yourself your cup actually gets bigger and you're able to not only give more but receive more you know and that has been a huge um a huge I guess realization for me on how much I was missing out not just in my relationship my marriage but my relationship with my children with other people with friends you know it was so shallow you know um prior to me taking care of myself because my cup was just so shallow you know there was only so much room and then as I become healthier as I've taken care of myself you know that has grown and grown and grown and now it's like so much you know it's just it's there's so much more that I didn't even realize I was missing out on. You know, so being at whole as an individual makes a huge difference on how much you can give but also how much you receive.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

And I think coming back around to your point of the magic is that when you have a full cup and then you take care of others, you you don't build up those resentments and part of keeping the magic is not carrying those resentments with you about anything. And I think that's that's been critical for for us is to not have resentments. We don't ever bring up past hurts or anything like that. That that just never comes up because we we dealt with it at the time and then we put it to rest and we didn't live there.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

I love that that's the sweeping right that's the sweeping you know it you clear it and then you're not resurrecting it over and over and over again. Gosh there's a couple places I want to go we we may have to just have you guys back. What are you up to now in your marriage?

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Well I think um we're spending as much time as we possibly can together um we we do a lot of dreaming right now you know we we talk about you know what we what we want in the future what our our future is going to look like because we're at this transitional stage where our families actually our household's getting smaller not our family but our our family's getting larger but our household is getting smaller as we have children go off on their own and you know what are we what are we gonna do? What are how are we going to handle that? What are we doing with our life you know and so we try to paint those pictures and what what are our our options for the future and what kind of doors do this does this open not what's all closing down. And so we're really focused on what doors are opening up and what this is going to allow us to do and where we can go with with this and where we can take our marriage you know in the future. And so we do we spend a lot of time when we're out together talking about those types of things and and looking at that you know because we check in so often you know it's it makes it easy to not have to deal with the minutiae of you know well what bills have to be paid you know and what is what do we have to be concerned about you know so when we're out on our date we're not talking about those types of things you know we're talking about things that are fun and lighthearted and whatnot. So I think for me I see a lot of that going on right now in our marriage.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yeah definitely lots of quality time and and there's like an excitement and an anticipation for the next phase of life coming and um it's sad. It's we miss our kids when they leave us. We do we're very we're very close with our family and our kids are close with each other and they're close with us. And so especially when our oldest was leaving and then when Phoebe left um the first time it was it was just gut wrenchingly hard. It's just so sad and you just miss them so much and it's really confusing because you're so proud of them and so happy for them too. But we're very close. Hila and I were very excited for that time that it's just the two of us and we can just do whatever. So we do we have these dream dates and and they're so much fun because it it could go in a million different directions.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

I love it. I love that you said your fox pole buddies like I forgot to mention that but that just really struck me and uh a friend of mine shared a quote that was like marriage marriage is like a never ending playdate with your favorite weirdo and I just I just loved that and I can totally tell that you guys are favorite weirdos too. One of the other things that's so refreshing about you guys is that you you don't hide anything between each other but what I see too is you don't hide anything from your kids and your family like it's all just kind of out there and it's all a blend and it all gets to coexist the joy and the hardship and the struggle and and you don't hide any of that from your kids and I know that has to have a huge huge impact. So the world is your oyster so I like to think of it like a created marriage. Like that's really what I want to I hope people can see is that um it can be the most incredible adventure of your life and you guys clearly have a creative marriage but I would love to just close in like what does that mean to you guys I I've always been a person who likes to be in charge of things and I don't like to accept what I'm supposed to do.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

I want to figure out my own path and figure it out for myself and I think that I approach marriage in that way as well because I I believe that my marriage can always be as strong and as magical and as fun as it was when we were first dating and I loved the adventure of it. And so for me it's like what can we do on a regular basis that's going to give us that energy of of change and constant movement because I don't ever want to be sitting with dust collecting on my marriage you know I want it to be a movable a moving forward thing you know I want to always be kind of like planning and going towards the next exciting adventure um and uh so for me it's all about that that intention of we're this is our life what do we get to decide what it is we don't have to follow what other people do. We don't have to do what other people do we can this is our own thing and that's that's always something that's been really important to me and as I get older it just becomes a stronger thing. I I love the I I don't like dust collecting and for me that's what a stagnant marriage is and I don't think that's a strong marriage.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

So break up the monotony just make plans and and just kind of like each day define it how you want it to look you know I think um it's important to remember why you chose this other person because it was a choice you know and we have to keep reminding ourselves of that you know and looking for those things that we love in that other person. We we gotta look for them every day we got to recognize them oh my gosh that is that is so beautiful about this person you know and never take it for granted you know um those those things those reasons why we chose that person because if I think about being married to just about anybody else I'm I'm like you know it's that does not appeal to me and there's there's reasons why I I I chose her you know and um those reasons are um hugely important and there's more reasons now for me to continue to love her than there were for me to just marry her you know and so I think it's important that we look that we take a step back almost and we look at that person and see them with new eyes if you can on a daily basis you know like it was the first time you ever looked at them.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

Let's close on that note. That's a beautiful note to end on you guys you're gonna have to come back and we're gonna have to talk about faith in marriage and we're gonna have to talk about family because I know your marriage has had a huge impact on your family dynamic and how creative you guys are there. So you're gonna have to come back but I thank you so much for being here and sharing your hearts and your stories and I know it's gonna impact people that listen. So thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Yeah thank you thank you Carla it was our pleasure it was so fun chatting with you thank you for tuning in to this episode of Differently I hope it stirred your thinking and I invite you to take one inspired action from something. If you want to hear more conversations like this hit subscribe on your favorite Five Fox and please read the word Five Five Father