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Differently: Stop living by default. Start living by design.
Differently is for when you need to get out of your head and back into your life.
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Turn overthinking and self doubt into clarity, confidence, creativity and momentum.
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Differently: Stop living by default. Start living by design.
A Spark of Hope with Michelle Jones
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Meet Michelle Jones!
Michelle is the President and Co-Founder of [Trauma Integration, LLC.] Michelle is an educator and Certified Trauma Integration Coach. She loves people and firmly believes in the inherent resiliency within each of us.
Michelle generously shares her journey of healing and how it informs the work she does today.
Life, differently, for Michelle, has been setting down who she thought others expected her to be and and stepping into who she was made to be.
Get ready for a spark of hope and inspiration.
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www.jonesharbor.com
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Thank you for listening!
You might already know this, but I hand pick guests on this show. It's really important to me that I've had an experience of someone before I share them with you. My guest today is someone I met this year. Michelle Jones is the president and co-founder of Trauma Integration. She's an educator and certified trauma integration coach. She loves truly connecting with people, and she firmly believes in the inherent resiliency within each of us and loves uncovering the light and strength in the people she meets. Michelle and I actually met through a colleague of hers who is a trauma therapist too. And her colleague and I worked with a client at the same time. And the client experienced really incredible results while we addressed different angles of the trauma and helped the client build new mindsets and habits to move forward in his life. Our client introduced us, and that is how I met Michelle. This is a very genuine conversation, and Michelle generously shares her own journey, her feelings from the trauma in her life, and how it has informed the work she does today. She takes us into how shedding emotional weight in her life has freed up the way she lives as parents and creates harmonious relationships. And how ultimately creating life differently for her has been setting down who she thought others expected her to be and courageously stepping into who she was made to be. Get ready for a spark of hope and inspiration. Meet Michelle. Welcome to Differently. I'm very excited for this conversation.
SPEAKER_01Carla, thank you so much for having me on. I love every chance I get to connect with you.
SPEAKER_00I'm so grateful. Like I was just telling you before we hit record that our paths have crossed. And I would love for you to start with um really just sharing your personal story. Like what and and we'll we'll get into what you do, but what led you to doing the work that you do today?
SPEAKER_01Okay. So I think it's interesting that it's been such a silly course. You know, um, when we're 18 years old, we kind of think we know how life is gonna flow out before us. And it turns out that that is not at all what my experience has been. And the more I actually get to know people, I think that's a pretty common experience, right? So if we were to travel back to that 18-year-old, I went to nursing school, um, studied, and became a pediatric nurse. And I did that for about 15 years in hospital. Loved it. Like absolutely loved engaging with the kids, showing up and feeling like I made a difference. And um ended up coming home from that work because I had a couple of kids with special needs, and I was lucky enough to be able to be home with them full-time during that time when they really needed for me to be there. Um, during that time, um, I picked up a few like kind of quirky things, but now they all come together, right? Hindsight's 2020 and seeing how it comes together. So I did work as a photographer, which I loved. It helped me to see the beauty in my everyday life, which being home every day with special needs kids felt a little challenging. Um, and then also the piece of the puzzle that really brought me to where I am today. So, taking that insight, some of my kids needed some um resources in the mental health community. And I was kind of astonished after working in a hospital setting and how um smooth and um like relatively easy it is to get solutions to these physical medical problems, how challenging it was to find great resources and help for my kids who needed mental health support. And um so that really surprised me. And it really took quite a wrestle to get there. And I feel like I kind of had to wake up because I knew how to navigate this, you know, medical community, and still I found it a challenge. So if we fast forward a little bit, after kind of working through that, I ended up kind of becoming my own expert at some of these things, as a lot of moms with special needs kids do, right? And so through that process, I wanted to step into the next part of my professional life, really trying to make a difference in this mental health arena. And I did not know that it would bring me to this work, but I knew that that was what I wanted to do. And as I began connecting, I ended up connecting with a bit of an internship with someone who taught me how to do this process of trauma relief. And of course, one of the first things that he told me was, Well, before you can do this work with others, you have to clear your own trauma. Like you have to do your own processing of your trauma. And I very glibly was like, Well, that makes sense. Sure, I'll do that. And ended up realizing that I had really disconnected from a lot of traumatic experiences that were affecting me a lot real time. And I just hadn't made the connection. I hadn't made the connection that the challenges and struggles that I had, whether it be like restlessness and anxiety or um a difficult time resting or having really like out-of-proportion responses during some parts of my life that that those things were connected to this unprocessed trauma that I had internally. If I had known that, I think I would have been really motivated to take care of it earlier. I just didn't understand that that's what was going on. I really had just put all of that in the category of, well, that's just the way I am. That's just that's just who I am. I just have all of these things and I just have to like carry all this around with me, and I'm just gonna make the best of it and go be productive and successful in the rest of my life. And so that was a revolutionary experience for me to go through, to process this unprocessed trauma. And through that process, you know, I'm kind of a super nerd, so I wanted to understand it. I wanted to understand why, why is my body holding it like this? How does this work? How does the brain work with this? And what makes this process um effective and long-lasting in terms of the relief that I found from it. And so that brought me to the work that I do today. Today I kind of split my time 50-50. I work half as a trauma educator. So I helped people understand their trauma response because that was what I longed for the most when I was in the middle of the process. So it became like a passion of mine that everybody could have hope and have the opportunity to understand what they were experiencing. Um, and I also prepare coaches to be able to help clients process trauma. Um, or therapists. I actually have a couple of therapists that I've trained as well that use this in their practice. Um, and then I do also do some one-on-one coaching myself working with clients. So I kind of split my time between those two things.
SPEAKER_00So take us back. Like what how do you define trauma?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so there's two different ways people think of trauma, right? One of the things is we can think of trauma as the event that happened, the crisis, the circumstance that we experienced. And that's a perfectly fine definition. But the one that is the most useful to think about is that trauma is actually what happens within us in internally when we are in these crisis situations or in um maybe a dysfunctional family pattern, right? And so I think that's helpful to differentiate between the two because here where I sit in 2021, if I were to look back, I really can't do anything to change the literal events that have happened. They're in the past, they're finished, it's done. However, what I can do is go to and recognize the trauma response that I was carrying within or that a client is carrying within, and that we can actually make some real change with.
SPEAKER_00And so that real change that you're helping people access, is that in your physical body?
SPEAKER_01So yes. So part of what it is is in the moment of a crisis or in the moment of the of a traumatic event, our brain goes into um shock. Our brain switches the way that it's processing, it's creating a memory in a totally different way than it would in any other time of our life. And so as we're in this moment, we're in shock, what happens is we're taking in all this information into our body. I like to think of it that our body is taking in as much information as possible so it can make like microsecond decisions on how to survive the moment. The brain's just prioritizing survival. It doesn't really care if it's embarrassing or awkward or how hard it will be to unpack later. Our brain is focused in that moment on getting through the moment and surviving, making it through the experience. And so when we are taking in all this information, our frontal lobe, which is like all of our executive functioning, grown-up, analyzing, decision-making part, that part's not really online because the body's focusing on survival. So we're taking in a lot of um information, there's a lot of emotion, we're experiencing a lot of physical sensations in the moment, and the thoughts and beliefs that we form in that moment are likely kind of fragmented and they may not make a lot of sense. And that's just the nature of how we're processing this memory, right? And so when the moment has passed, and now we're stepping back into like regular life, because now that that time is over, we're not there anymore. We have this memory within us, this unprocessed trauma that contains all these physical sensations, emotions, thoughts, and beliefs. And it really stays there until it gets processed, until the brain can understand it and know what to do with it. And so part of the work that we do is we go in a really mindful way. The whole process is very client-driven. It's a process of being willing to be in the present moment with all of these, um all these pieces of the puzzle, with the physical sensations, the emotions, and the thoughts from that event, right? From that time. And we go to all of these pieces and we help the brain to understand what was experienced, what was happening, and that this event is no longer happening. So I no longer need to keep carrying all of these physical and emotional responses with me because they're because the danger is over.
SPEAKER_00It's so fascinating. And I I'm like, the more you and I talk, the more I'm understanding like why our work is so complementary. Because like when I work with clients, we're going back to those events, like those stories we all carry these stories or events in our life that are still impacting us today. And you're doing that part of the work. And when I'm working with somebody, I'm helping them see how successful. They're living today as if they were seven in that environment, that trauma that occurred at that time. They're behaving today in their life with their past, with their thoughts, whatever it is, as if they're still surviving that moment that you're talking about. And so you're addressing it from what you described. What you just described as. And what I'm helping them do is out of fact what they make that event about that and how they see the world, and how they see themselves, and how they see others. It frees them on another level because a lot of times as adults, we're it's we're creating pain in our life today from something that happened years ago just with our minds. We're recreating that pain over and over and over again. And I'm just finding it fascinating as we talk. You know, the more um I can see how the work we're doing really like aligns really beautifully together.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I really love that I that like perspective on it because I think it's so true. And it's interesting because I think part of what is confusing for people is that sometimes, um, so I'll just, you know, I'm 43 years old. And sometimes back when I was processing my trauma, I'm trying to remember, I was 38. So sometimes I was acting as 38-year-old Michelle, right? Like capable, confident, successful adult, making adult decisions. Um and sometimes I would get kind of nudged or develop a pattern in a relationship where all of a sudden I was behaving like I was 10 or 11 years old. And I didn't recognize that. I just thought that was part of my personality. I just thought that that was kind of part of who I was, and it didn't even occur to me that that wasn't the same. And people experience that too, not only with their thoughts and beliefs, but also with their um emotions and their physical responses as well. And so sometimes if someone is having, say, a panic attack, I'm not saying all panic is related to trauma, but it's not uncommon for it to be related to trauma. It's helpful to recognize that, okay, all of this intense sensation that I'm having in my body, this isn't 20, 21-year-old me who is feeling all of this intensity. And it's not my body right now that senses danger. It's me connecting to this younger part of me that felt in danger at that moment. And just even understanding that piece can kind of diffuse a lot of the intensity because all of a sudden we recognize that we are safe in this moment. We are okay. Our body isn't freaking out, our body's just remembering how it felt in this earlier in this earlier time. But without that understanding, it feels like right now in this moment, my body isn't functioning, which just increases our fear and increases that kind of cycle, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then you can't show up as your best self or the, you know, who you want to be in that particular moment. Like I'm rem remembering working with somebody years and years ago. She would go in to meet with her boss and would kind of turn into that little girl every time. And as we worked together, we unpacked that you know, she had a relationship with her father that was um very like an interrogator and question her and proof of her test. Every time she sat in her father's asked, or asking her questions. Her brightest and best self and start behaving and responding in a way that didn't trigger all the old emotion. And I think that that's I mean, I can relate to that in my own life, and I see it over and over again, and I'm sure you do too in the work you're doing you do with clients.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and and then it makes me wonder if you also see, because as I'm listening to that story and connecting with that, I realize, you know, part of what we're feeling is that there's a part of us that knows that how we're responding isn't authentic to who we are today. And that feels terrible. It feels terrible when when when we're in that space, right? Um and then it kind of makes me think too one of the things we do is not only do we make meaning out of things that aren't there, right? We add meaning to the situation that is just of our own making. But I think sometimes we think we're better at reading people's minds than we really are. Um and I know now for a fact I'm a terrible mind reader. It turns out I actually don't know what someone else's thoughts or intentions are unless I ask them. But I think as a whole, unless we're really like conscientious of that, we walk around thinking that we understand and know people's meaning. So with this client and she's sitting with her boss, she might be thinking, oh, he thinks I'm doing a terrible job. He thinks, you know, all this meaning and a lot of it has to do with her thinking she knows his intentions and his thoughts. When the truth is we really can't know that about somebody else. So we either develop this pattern of assuming that everyone is judging us and critical of ourselves, which is usually because we are judging ourselves and critical of ourselves, or that maybe there's literally nothing more to this than they're just asking me a question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. I remember like when I got that in my own life, like somebody told me, or I can't remember where exactly it came from, but this idea that I didn't have to like think for others anymore. Because for half of my life I was thinking what other people were thinking, and then adjusting and contorting myself and my behavior to what I thought they wanted. And you're right. I mean, if I had to find out when that happens, when I think I know what he's thinking, I will say it out loud. And usually 90% of the time or more, he's like, no, that's not at all what I meant, or that's not at all what I was thinking. Totally. And so giving like firing yourself from that job of thinking for others was one of the most freeing things in my life. Like just releasing, oh it's exhausting.
SPEAKER_01I remember, I remember watching, I think it was a Netflix special with Brene Brown, and she phrased it as the story I'm telling myself is. And so now I'll use that phrase with my spouse or a kid, like, the story I'm telling myself is that you're annoyed that I never cooked dinner tonight. And he's like, I haven't even thought about it. I'm like, oh, okay. But I could have spent all this energy, and in the past, I would have continued to kind of carry around maybe guilt, but then also resentment, right? So I'm like, oh, I'm so fresh, like, man, I feel bad. I should have prepared a meal and now he's upset. And then I may even talk myself into being resentful that he's upset because why is that my job to cook dinner? And the whole time he's not thinking about it at all.
SPEAKER_00Right. I used to spin out for a whole day or a week on stuff like that. Like it's really crazy making what happens in our head and and the freedom that's available when you start to let some of that go. So good. So yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01No, I was gonna say, I actually find that it's super connected to one of the things I've noticed professionally, but even with um my friendships and my family relationships, is that when I'm starting to feel stressed or overwhelmed, it's oftentimes because I'm taking on responsibility for something that's not mine to carry. I feel like I need to fix something that's not mine, or I'm carrying something that actually belongs to somebody else, right? And I feel like that's so connected to what we're talking about here in terms of carrying what other people want from us when we don't even actually know what they want from us. It's just, and all of it in both cases is just something that we have voluntarily picked up to carry. And I love how you said I fired myself from that. Like, yes, I just think of it as I like literally picture in my head, like grabbing it up and being like, actually, this isn't mine to carry. And I it like picture in my mind handing it back to that person. Like, this actually isn't mine to carry. And it's remarkable how you know within minutes I feel like centered again and I'm not carrying this kind of frantic overwhelm feeling because I think our bodies are designed to be able to carry the things that are ours. I think when we begin to feel stressed and overwhelm, it's probably because we're carrying things that aren't ours. And we weren't built to do that.
SPEAKER_00It's so true. There's a concept that I um used inside of coaching it called your domain of responsibility. And it came from this idea after coaching a lot of years. I noticed started to notice that especially as women, we've got our arms in all kinds of things that are not ours to manage like an octopus with like our arms just all over the place with fast intensive. It's coming from a place of life to help that. Or even when somebody starts to audio, ask for you. Is there anything that right there just saves so much energy? So this idea of like pulling our arms back into our domain of responsibility. It's another place we can like really stuff that we have. And maybe some of the trauma actually creates some of those behaviors, right? Where we learn to um get love or be seen or be respected by doing things. Do you do you think that's true?
SPEAKER_01Totally. Or even just as simple as to stay safe, right? That if we want to stay safe, then we need to do our best to keep everything like flowing smoothly, not rock the boat, stay with stay with what we need to do. And you know, as you were sharing that example, I could just feel myself kind of relaxed and I could see myself in the first part. Like I was, I'm like a recovering control freak, right? Like I used to really operate in that way where I would try to manage things because it helped me to feel like I had some control, which is all an illusion, but it made me feel safe. And all of that was compensating for the fact that I really didn't feel safe internally. And so I was trying to just create safety by like controlling what was going on. And yes, it came from a loving place, but more fundamentally, really, I didn't feel settled within myself. Now that I feel really like safe and secure and content within myself, I also notice I feel that drive to do that much less anyway. Um, and I'm so thankful, like on the one hand, I wish, oh, I wish I'd learned this like 20 years ago, right? But things happen for a reason when they do. And one of the things I'm thankful for, my two oldest kids were like mid-teenagers when I went through my trauma work, and now they're college students. So they're making this transition into adulthood. And the last thing that a 19-year-old college student wants is their mom coming in to try to run the show for them, right? All under the illusion of like, I'm helping you. No, our kids want for us to like have confidence in them, right? And so now when there's a catastrophe of whatever size it is, according to my college student, the first thing I say is like I'll acknowledge, like, man, this that's so frustrating, or that's unfair that that came up, or whatever it is. And then the next thing I'll always say, which I love how you said, I I I acknowledge their strength and capability. Like, I absolutely know that you have what it takes to get through this and to figure it out. If there's anything that you'd like for me to do to help support you through that, let me know. So I give the ball back to them, right? Like, I know you've got this. Even though you're still kind of a baby because you're, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old. I have confidence in you. I know you have got this, but I'm here to help you and support you. You let me know what's helpful. And it has really totally changed my relationship with them in that they now come to me when they have questions or they need counsel on something because they know that I'm not going to come in and try to control it and run the show. And so it's become this really beautiful relationship. And I think if a recovering control freak can learn to do that with our kids, which is a mom, I think that's where we have the hardest time like stepping back and not carrying it. Um, it goes to show that we can do that with any relationship, really.
SPEAKER_00That is so beautiful. And it's a practice, right? Like you, as you were sharing that. I have a 19-year-old who's in the Navy, went into the Navy in September of last year. We got to see this year. I remember we were out in the ocean just talking. And I said something. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it came from a place of like 400. So, if you're seeing that strong, but it's really difficult for me. And it's such a good reminder to just our kids do want that, especially boys. I think they want that respect and they want to be seen as capable and strong and so beautiful.
SPEAKER_01I love that. And I have to think all of our relationships benefit from that, right? Like, like all of our relationships that can balance into a healthy um give and take relationship. I think all of our relationships benefit from that. Like nobody wants to be made to feel like they're not capable and that you have to come in and save them. Like everybody wants love and support, but nobody wants to be made to feel like they're not capable of managing their life. You know what I mean? And maybe there's some people that have really dysfunctional patterns, but overall, like I just think of how I would respond, even if I was having a crisis in my life in this exact moment, I would feel so much more supported and encouraged if somebody came to me and were like, Michelle, you are so capable and I know you've got this, but I want for you to know I have your back and this is how I'm helping. Like that would feel so much different than like I know that you don't have this. So I'm coming.
SPEAKER_00Or even just like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. This is so terrible. And just like, you know, too much empathy too doesn't feel amazing, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. Because then it makes it feel almost more overwhelming. Like, wow, if you're freaking out about it, it really must be something that I can't climb back out of. Right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Sure. So a couple things. Um one is I rem I saw in your website or in your bio or something I read about you, like just your passion to um like really help people see their own resiliency and the light inside of themselves. So I would love to just hear a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER_01Well, part of it, I would say that's my favorite part. I would say hope is one of my favorite words, and this concept is one of my absolutely favorite parts of the work that I do. And it and it transcends both the education piece and the coaching work that I do with people. I think one thing that I've come to learn and understand the the more I participate in this work is that I truly believe fundamentally every human is resilient and capable and full of light and has strength. Given the right access to support and resources, right? Like obviously we need to have that component. What happens is we get all this stuff in the way. We may have some debris or some beliefs, like you said, or some experiences that kind of cloud people's ability to see it about themselves. Those core truths don't change about us. Even if we can't see it, it doesn't mean that they that it's not there. Or even if we've forgotten how to connect to our resiliency or our light or our strength. It's still there within every single one of us. And it's a fundamental underlying belief, and it drives all the work that I do because everybody that I meet with, I start with that assumption that all of the healing comes from within them. They already have everything they need to heal. I am not the person who heals them. Healing doesn't come from me. They have that within themselves. All of that insight that they need, it will all come. I kind of see it as my job to help them clear away the debris so that they can connect to their own strength and resiliency. And so as they do that, now they've really anchored themselves in because I don't want them to be anchored to me. Like I'm awesome and I like enjoy all the people I connect with, but I'm not with them 24 hours a day, but they are. And so I need for them to like connect to and like believe in and recognize and learn the language of how to connect to all of those core attributes that are within them.
SPEAKER_00We do share some of the same fabric. I can't believe what you just said because I often say in the work I do that I'm not the expert on your life. Like you are the expert on your life. And like you said, they have you have everything you need and can access to lead your life. I'm the expert on helping you clear all the crap that's what I said, all the crap that's in the way of you seeing that and accessing that and believing that. And so that was crazy that you said that. I've never heard anybody else say that. And I'm like, oh, that's weird. That's exactly how I find it outside of the work. Yeah, because it's it is there. And I start with that point too. Like I feel like that's uh like a gift that you might probably have to see people beyond where they are. Like I can already see them beyond all the debris and I just put them back and help them clear away all the stuff that's in the way of them see it for themselves. Um, so powerful. So I want to go back to you, and you talked about really cultivating your own inner life. And I'm curious to share with us a little bit about what that looked like for you. Because I think that's such an important piece.
SPEAKER_01You know, I think part of it was kind of giving myself permission to figure out what that means. I think I had spent a lot of time creating myself in the image of what I thought I was supposed to be or what people were expecting me to be, right? What does a good mom look like? What does a successful person look like? So, you know, check. I need to graduate from college, got it, check. I need to write fill in all the gaps of all the things. And so I think it was almost a bit of an identity crisis for me when I was able to kind of set aside all of these expectations. And like it sounds so simple, but in some ways it was like I had to finish that developmental step of figuring out who do I want to be. Like, if I'm not choosing who I want to be based on the responses of other people or the expectations, whether I made up that expectation, or it's a very real expectation. If I'm willing to live an authentic life that resonates and feels true to me, that's separate from what someone else is expecting of me, what would that include? And how would I put things in? And part of it was definitely a bit of a wrestle because I would journal, which I know is big in the work that you do, and and it would start with the simple question: what do I like? Like, I don't even know what I like. I liked making sure that I was meeting expectations. But that's very different than what is my passion, what matters to me, what do I value? And now I would say part of how that shows up is that I want to be the same person in every situation in my life. I want to show up with my whole self. I don't have like, you know, and of course it's like slightly different, right? Like we kind of adjust ourselves to the situation, but by and large, whether you meet me in a professional setting or socially or, you know, wherever, I try to show up as my whole self, even if that doesn't necessarily meet expectations of the people around me. And it is a relief. It is a relief to show up that way. And to give myself permission, for instance, with parenting, right? I'm giving myself permission to show up as the mother that my kids need and to build that relationship with them. And it really just doesn't matter if anyone else thinks that that's how I should be mothering because it's not it's has nothing to do with anybody else. All it has to do is just that. And so the more I lean into that, it's almost like one piece at a time has gotten put into the equation. It it for me, it wasn't like one big moment, it was sitting in a sea of discomfort for a while where I didn't really have an anchor because I was letting go of other people's expectations, but I really didn't know what I wanted yet. And then as I just try it, like I think what I really want to do is education, so let me try it. And then the more I teach, the more I realize I really love this. I love teaching, I love helping people to understand this work. So now I've got one more piece in my puzzle. And so part of it was like learning by trying. And I'm like a forever learner, so I'm always trying to just expose myself to new thoughts and ideas and be present in the moment and notice the things that light me up and that feel um authentic to me. I feel like that was a really messy answer, but it was a messy process, so maybe that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think I mean the core of what I heard is that there was a point in your life where you you really stopped doing something, right? Like for me, it was that too. It was living to please the external world and measure up and check the boxes and all of that. And the decision to stop doing that is what created the space for everything that happened after that. Is that true?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That was much more concisely said, Carla. Thank you for rescuing my expectation.
SPEAKER_00I think it was clearer than you realize. Um, so I'm curious, does your how does your faith play a role in that?
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, I would say that my faith underwent a little bit of that same process. Um I have always been somebody, I think one of my gifts is that I have always had a believing heart in God and in believing that that's real, that there's something more than just what I can see before me. Um and I've always felt that connection. Not surprisingly, before this whole transition for me, I think a lot of that manifested by checking a bunch of boxes for what I thought it meant to be a woman of faith, um, actively participating in a church community, right? So I would kind of, even though it was coming from a genuine place, in that I felt um faith and a love for God and the desire for that connection, outwardly I was really like behaving or making choices because it matched up with what I was expected to be doing as a woman of faith. Now I would say my faith is so much more um grand, it incorporates so much more. Um, I realize how much more um it's enlarged. I'm I'm trying to think of the word. It's like I realize that having faith in God's love and all of these pieces includes so much more than I thought it did. It's not limited to this um specific set of like practices, that it's actually in everything, in all the things that we see. And so, much like you know, my world relationships have evolved because of this. I think that my relationship with my own divinity and also with God have totally followed that same suit for the better, that I feel more authentically connected. I feel okay to show up as my whole raw self, all the parts of me, and I know that I am loved and accepted for that, that that I am worthy of love just as I stand here today, and I didn't really trust in that before. So I would say that that journey has traveled along with me into that part of who I am in my faith as well.
SPEAKER_00That's so incredible. It's so incredible. I remember like at a point in my journey where I was just so hard on myself and so doubting of myself and critical. And I remember a moment of just like this. Aha, that if I continued to diss myself, that I was really dissing God and God's creation and God's design, and that like that's what allowed me to really stop a lot of the craziness I was doing to myself was just kind of like like releasing all that pressure just trusting that. I feel that if I was created this way, what if I just leaned into that instead of all of it? That was a pivotal moment too. But so beautiful we could talk for a long time on that. So I also saw a quote on your website that says uh miracles start to happen when you give as much energy to your dreams as you do your fears, Richard Wilkins. And so I'm curious, like I know that's on your site for a reason, and maybe this is where we close, but what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_01Um, I think fear was the dragon that I had to tame in this whole process. And although I lived a good, successful life before, I wasn't happy. I wasn't seeing things unfold before me in an effortless way like I do now. I think everything felt like a fight. I was fighting for every inch of progress in my life, and a lot of that was because of fear. I had a lot of fear that I wasn't capable. I had fear that if people really knew, like really knew all the parts of who I am, that they wouldn't want to love me or be connected to me. And the truth of the matter is I never gave them the option. I never gave them the chance. So because maybe I only let them see 80% of me within me, I knew I was only 80% loved. And that wasn't the fault of the people who were loving me. I I wasn't allowing all the parts of myself to be seen and loved. And that is some serious vulnerability and working through fear in order to step into and to be able to show up as we really are. Um, I also found that process to be true as I connected to my trauma responses. I had a lot of extensive trauma from my childhood and I was carrying a lot of fear in my body. And I think that is what had kept me from waiting so long in my life to recognize it and address it because I think I was really scared that if I allow myself to go there and to open myself up to all this stuff I've been trying not to connect to, it will swallow me. I won't get back out of it again. I've had to work really hard to kind of keep it contained because I have the fear that if I connect to it, then I don't know if I can get back out of it again. And so it took a spark of hope and confidence that I am capable, right? Does it come back to what we were talking about before? I knew that I had to gain some some some faith in myself that I knew that I had what it takes to get through, or at least have a hope that I do. And so pushing through that fear, and instead of like dwelling on the fear, sitting in the fear, but instead being able to look for okay. But if this did work, if I do have what it takes, what could that look like? And the more that I lean into that and give myself permission to recognize that fear doesn't really serve me, and why not hope? Why not, why not try it? The more I do that, the more I notice miracles. I have definitely been a witness to miracles where things come together exactly as they need to, right when they need to, when I'm not living from a place of fear.
SPEAKER_00That's incredible. So for someone listening that maybe is in that place of fear of reaching out or diving into some of this stuff, because I have seen that too. What would you say to them? Like how how Yeah, just what would you what would you say to them? Like in that place of fearful to act or to um to go there. Because I for yeah, for me, I know that like when you're willing to go there, there's treasure, right? There's treasure that awaits you. I think the more scared you are, the more treasure that awaits you. Um but yes, what would you say?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I guess the way for me to make it concrete, if I was sitting across from a client and they were kind of sitting in this place of fear, not sure if they wanted to move in and to like dive into this work to process their trauma, I would tell them it it's like both are fine choices. You can choose whatever path you want. You can choose the path of carrying this along with you, and that is work. It takes work to navigate life while you're carrying all of these um extra things fear, unprocessed trauma, um, beliefs, mindsets, right? But you can do it. Like a big bomb isn't gonna come knock you off the earth. Like you can totally do it that way. Or you can take this path and go ahead and lean into it, and that's gonna be some work too. It's gonna be some emotional work and some, you know, work as you lean into it, but coming out the other side, you're not carrying all of these burdens. And so now you can move forward and choose and pivot in your life where you want to go without having to take into account all of these other things that you have to kind of lug around with you. Um, and another thing that I say is, you know, I have been down this path, and so I know the way. And I have a backpack with some extra flashlights and batteries, and I'm not gonna let you get lost. Like I'm gonna help you get to the other side. You're not doing this alone.
SPEAKER_00That's so awesome. And I what a gift you have. And I I love that question that you said, you know, like so often we go into like, what what if I fail, or what if I can't? But the the beautiful thing you said is is what if you can?
SPEAKER_01Right. Because sometimes that's all we know. Sometimes I have to start the question of what if you are enough? What if? And for some people that's the first time they've considered that. What if I am enough? What if I do have what it takes? What if I can walk forward without any of this anymore? Is that worth it? Is that worth trying it? And only only the person sitting across from me knows. I I can't know that for them. Only they know that, right? And I and I actually believe everybody comes to this at the right time in their life too. You know what I mean? Like, as much as I wish that I had done this when I was 18 years old and could have like parented my early parenting differently, I recognize that everything came together when it needed to for me to learn what I needed to and step into this work. And instead of giving my kids the gift of having like a mom without any trauma in their early years, instead, I've given them the gift of seeing that no matter what you're carrying, you can um transform it and move forward in whatever direction you want to in life. I gave them a template for how to heal and how to move through challenges. And maybe that's not the one I would have picked, but it's the one that they got. And I have to have confidence that that will serve them in their life.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so tell people where they can find out more about you.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so the easiest place to find me personally is the website that you referenced a couple times, jonesharbor.com. Um, and then if you want to learn about the education stuff that we are doing and preparing coaches and practitioners, that is integrate trauma.com. So pretty, pretty fun and easy ways to connect.
SPEAKER_00I am so honored to have had this conversation with you. And I'm so grateful that our paths have crossed, and I'm excited to see like what comes of this. But I um my heart is full after this conversation, and I just thank you for taking the time and being here today.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Carla. I definitely feel that too, like kindred spirits connected and bringing light and understanding and helping people to just have some hope and confidence in themselves. And sometimes all they need is that spark to get started to take them where they need to go.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Different Light. I hope it starts your thing. And I invite you to take one inspired after.