Voices of Diversity host Rocki Howard speaks to guest Dan Burger.
Dan Burger, has a bachelors degree in Computer Engineering and a Master's degree in Computer Science from Vanderbilt University. Dan develops web and mobile solutions for research groups at Vanderbilt. His work covers astrophysics, high-performance computing, K-12 education, and career placement for individuals with autism.
A few of Dan's many accomplishments include developing software at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, creating Filtergraph - a free visualization web service which is also being used by NASA and Dan has been interviewed on 60 minutes by Anderson Cooper.
Resources
The Frist Center for Autism and Innovation
Connect with Us
Voices of Diversity host Rocki Howard speaks to guest Dan Burger.
Dan Burger, has a bachelors degree in Computer Engineering and a Master's degree in Computer Science from Vanderbilt University. Dan develops web and mobile solutions for research groups at Vanderbilt. His work covers astrophysics, high-performance computing, K-12 education, and career placement for individuals with autism.
A few of Dan's many accomplishments include developing software at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, creating Filtergraph - a free visualization web service which is also being used by NASA and Dan has been interviewed on 60 minutes by Anderson Cooper.
Resources
The Frist Center for Autism and Innovation
Connect with Us
Welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm your host Rocki. Howard, I identify as she, her black, Christian GenX wife, mom. These attributes are dimensions of my diversity of who I am. They are part of my unique value proposition and how I add value to the world. And I believe it is time for the world to hear the stories of people like me, those who are underrepresented in corporate America. The mission of this podcast is to humanize diversity, one story, one conversation at a time to share the impact on those who identify as being underrepresented as they go through life in corporate America. I hope you will listen to this episode with open hearts and open minds as today's guests tell their story. They are a voice of diversity. Welcome to the very first episodes of voices in diversity. And let me tell you, you are in for a real treat. Our guests Dan Burger has a bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering, and a master's degree in Computer Science from Vanderbilt University. Dan develops web and mobile solutions for research groups at Vanderbilt. His work covers everything from astrophysics, high performance computing, K through 12 education, and career placements for individuals with autism. A few of Dan's many accomplishments include developing software at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, creating filter graph, which is a free visualization web service, which is also being used by NASA. And Dan has been interviewed on 60 minutes by Anderson Cooper. I can't think of a better way to launch this podcast than having Dan be a voice of autism. Good afternoon. Good morning. Good evening audience for whatever time you're listening, and welcome to the voices of diversity Podcast. I am so excited to have my my job's for humanity friend and colleague, Dan Berger joining me today, if you are not familiar jobs for humanity, we are a volunteer, a volunteer led recruitment service. And we helped underserved communities get jobs by connecting a growing community of activists, including employers who really care to bring equity and diversity and inclusion into this world. And we help by connecting those folks to very talented individuals. And both Dan and I are on the advisory board of jobs for humanity. So I'm so excited to have Dan joining us here today for our very first episode of voices of diversity. So my friends, my colleagues, speaking of multiple dimensions of diversity, I identify as she, her black, Christian, Jen, ex wife, and mom. And those are the dimensions of diversity that that help. That's how I show up in the world. Dan, could you do me a favor and introduce yourself to us and, and tell us how you identify?
Dan Burger:I so I'm Dan Burger. I I identify a he/him/his, and I, I was diagnosed on the autism spectrum almost two years ago. Up until that point, I didn't know that I was on the spectrum. Everyone around me had their suspicions, and I had my suspicions too, but I was not formally diagnosed until two years ago.
Rocki Howard:Wow. So that had to be quite an evolution for you. Was there something that was the catalyst for you seeking out that diagnosis?
Dan Burger:I have the opportunity as part of as part of working at the Center for Autism and innovation. So let's take a step back. I I work at Vanderbilt, and Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee. And I work at many different parts of the university physics and astronomy, the Supercomputer Center at Vanderbilt, which is called the Advanced Computing centers for research and education. And then there's Peabody college, I do some work for the for elementary and middle school math teachers to help them build lesson plans. And then part of my work is at The Frist Center for Autism and Innovation. And the goal of the center is to help adults on the spectrum find meaningful employment. And as soon as those people that are able to find a, I was able to find a research study, and as part of the research, study I would be getting a diagnosis. So they brought me into their lab, they asked me two questions about my childhood, I took an IQ test as an IQ test. And, and then they said, we'll have a, we'll give you a write up in about a week. But I just wanted to let you know that we think that you are on the spectrum. And I'd say at first, it didn't matter that much to me. But now I see how being on the spectrum has made me different from everyone else. And I've started to appreciate those differences.
Rocki Howard:I love the fact that what you're saying is you've learned to appreciate those differences. And and that's what really life is all about, I think is about learning how to leverage our differences as part of our value proposition. Wow, that's an incredible, incredible story, Dan, and, and I listened to you talk about all the various things that you do. And I'm excited to dig in a little bit about it a little bit more there. So tell us a little bit about your career. You know, first of all, how did you wind up at Vanderbilt University? Are there things that preceded you coming to work for Vanderbilt, and then tell us a little bit more about all these different things you do at Vanderbilt?
Dan Burger:So I, I grew up in Nashville, Tennessee. And so I did well in school. And eventually, I made it to Vanderbilt as an undergraduate. I got my bachelor's in Computer Engineering in 2010. And then I took it, I took and then for a year, I worked at NASA as working on some software to for an instrument that will eventually go into space in a few years. And I'm still waiting for it to go into space. And then then it came back here for grad school. And as part of my thesis project, I worked for the Astronomy Department. And they wanted me to build a visualization for a visualization project for a telescope that Vanderbilt runs. So I think get the data, they needed me to have some way to visualize the data. It would eventually become filter graphs. And then we've had hundreds of people using it around the world. We'd have people at NASA better using it. And then a case on staff and my, my, my thesis advisor, he asked me if I could keep running it full time after I graduated. So I've been full time at Vanderbilt ever since then.
Rocki Howard:That's incredible. So Dan, not many of us. And I'm just gonna say this in case you guys can hear my dog barking in the background, because, you know, this is life in COVID, where we all work from home and there's certain noises, we can't stop. So I apologize. But Dan what an incredible story. How many of us get to come out of undergrad and go work for NASA and create something that's going to go into outer space? Part of the purpose of this podcast is to talk about the value that people who are underrepresented, add to corporate america and add to organizations and I just think some of the work that you've done is absolutely incredible, right. So I appreciate you walking us through where you started and how you got to today. Let me ask you this, and I know you spoke very transparently about just getting diagnosed about two years ago. Can you share with us any challenges you think you've had, that have been related to your autism in terms of your career progression and how your autism potentially affected you making it to where you are today in terms of your career.
Dan Burger:I'd say the most difficult thing about being for being on the autism spectrum, it's having to process it said, I feel like, I process difficulties. I feel like it's hard for me to process difficult situations.
Unknown:Mm hmm.
Dan Burger:I lost my mom four years ago, to breast cancer.
Rocki Howard:I'm so sorry.
Dan Burger:It happened all of a sudden, I, I she was in the hospital for a month. She was feeling fixed for a month before that. It was it was a difficult. It was a very difficult time. And, and then. And then almost suddenly, after that, my dad had met someone, they moved into a house together, they sold out, they sold the old house they lived in ever since I was eight. So a lot of things happened within that year. And, and it was it was very difficult. And all of a sudden, I I have had to transition to living on my own. This is when I got this place. And this is the first this is the first place I've had on my own.
Rocki Howard:I bet that feels scary and great all at the same time, doesn't it?
Dan Burger:It does.
Rocki Howard:Yeah, yeah. I can tell you that under the best of circumstances, people who don't have difficulty processing things in a different way, in difficult situations. what you just described would have been difficult for under under the best of circumstances, but I can imagine it was even more stressful going through it if you have difficulty processing situations. But it sounds like you've made it to the other side.
Dan Burger:Thank you.
Rocki Howard:Yeah, yeah. You before you went to NASA. And as you were going through the process of working with NASA, and as you were going through the process of working with Vanderbilt. Were there challenges in your job search where the difficulties that you had applying for jobs or interviewing for jobs that you think were attributed to how you process differently?
Unknown:Oh, of course. I, despite getting into you think you think you have a look back, you think Oh, I got into NASA? Oh, I did all these wonderful things. And yeah, it was hard for me to find a job out of college. And I graduated in 2010. And I attributed a failing to not finding a job to the Great Recession. Because it's right at the time when things started to recover. Yep. But not really the unemployment rate. And, and everyone was saying, oh, the millennials are cursed. They're not gonna be able to find a job ever. It did feel like that at the time didn't it? You know, that was sort of the mindset that I was going into this. Oh, I must be. Oh, I'm in the middle of the Great Recession. That's why I'm having a hard time no it's because I am autistic.
Rocki Howard:Yeah. Yeah. That is it. It's interesting how we tend to attribute things in different ways. Because it's, I think that's an easier thing to be able to process like, it's much easier to think about. everybody's having a tough time getting a job, the millennials are cursed versus I may be being treated a little bit differently. Because I, I walk through the world in a way that maybe other people don't. Right. Dan, let me ask you this. There are people who are privileged, right, who may be listening to this and when I talk about privilege, I'm not talking about social economical privilege, right? We all have privilege because we're part of a group We walk through the world with that kind of bias. And, and we're part of a majority, in a lot of cases, there are people who are privileged not to have to go through the world to being on the autism spectrum. And I'm curious as to what you would say, to people who are privileged and may be listening today, and may not understand what it's like to walk through the world being on the autism spectrum, what what would you say to those people?
Dan Burger:I'd say that people on the spectrum have a wide variety of talents. And, and, you know, if we there are people who are good at there are people who have great artistic talents, and people have good programming talents. And things will be better if he gives us a chance. We have, we have a lot, we have a lot of problems facing the world. We have a we have COVID. We have climate change, we have we have political differences, we have racial injustice. We need people who think differently about those problems.
Rocki Howard:We absolutely do.
Dan Burger:I like to think that we I like to think that the people who are building the vaccines, many of them are on the spectrum. I bet that many of them are on the spectrum.
Rocki Howard:It's an awesome call out because it is important studies have shown time and time again, that you only get to innovation, when you bring people to the table who think differently. So So do you mind if I'm sitting across from someone and I'm conducting an interview with someone who is autistic? How do I get the best out of that person? What can I do as an interviewer who's not on the spectrum? To make someone on the spectrum? feel more comfortable going through the interview process?
Dan Burger:Are you? So we're talking about
Rocki Howard:No, no, no, like, if I'm hiring for a job? What can I do? Like if I'm interviewing someone to come work for my company? Who's on the spectrum? What can I do as an interviewer to make that a great and positive experience?
Unknown:Really I'm not the best person to ask about this...
Rocki Howard:But I mean, from your experience, like when you went to work with NASA, or when you went to work with Vanderbilt? Did you have to go through an interview at all?
Dan Burger:You know, it's just lucky to be connected to the right people at the right time. But I
Unknown:think that's what it takes sometimes. Right?
Dan Burger:But I'd say man, if you said that,
Unknown:yeah. Why were they hard? From your point of view?
Dan Burger:I have to, I have to think on the fly. And that's not really the way that I think. And, and it's kind of like, what we're, it's kind of like how we, how we do the podcasts I have to think about, I have to think about different things. And, and it takes me a while to come up with the right words. eye contact, it's also very hard. I tend to look off into the distance whenever I talk to people.
Rocki Howard:So I think you honestly just answered the question for us. So if I'm an interviewer, a couple of things that might help or may have even helped you, in those circumstances were potentially to give you time to prepare for your interview and give you those questions and share them upfront. It may include being patient enough in the process, to understand that just because you're not answering quickly, or you asked for time, doesn't mean that you lack the knowledge. It's just that you process information in a different way. And to you know, like a lot of times interviewers, be aware of your bias of if someone doesn't look me in the eye, they're not trustworthy. If you're on the spectrum, looking someone and having that eye contact is uncomfortable. And so it's not a lack of trust. It's just about how that person walks through the world and how they interact. Dan, that was actually really, really helpful. Thank you so very much. I'm wondering for you, has there been a mentor, mentor or an ally that has really supported you or made a difference for you and your career?
Dan Burger:I can't think of anyone better than Keivan Stassun the breath how to keep that He started out as a professor of astronomy, and he still is. And he's, and he was the one who established the first Center for Autism and innovation. And I can't believe I've worked with him for over 10 years.
Unknown:Oh, wow.
Dan Burger:Ever since I was an undergrad,
Rocki Howard:It sounds like it's a great relationship. How do you think he supports you or helps you?
Dan Burger:I think he, I think he knows what I'm capable of, and, and knows how to support my talents. And, and I couldn't have asked for anyone better.
Rocki Howard:I love that, because that's what great mentors do. great mentors do understand the potential of the person that they mentor, and they do everything that they can to support their talents. I think that's an like, I couldn't have said it better. So, Dan, I mean, at the heart of it, you're a data scientist. Right. So I'm curious, do you have any thoughts potentially, on how companies should measure success in in diversity recruitment? Or in their diversity initiatives? being a scientist and being about the data? Is there anything that comes to mind for you, when companies are looking at metrics and measurements around diversity?
Dan Burger:I think the I think the most important thing is are you getting getting diversity in ideas? And do you have differing opinions on on things? As opposed to if ever if everyone thinks the same way, then then that's a good sign that you're, you're not being different enough. So diversity and ideas, and then, and then diversity? Another thing feeds into diversity of ideas.
Rocki Howard:I love that. I love that. If, Dan, if I want it to learn more about on being a good partner, a good friend, a great colleague, to someone who is on the autism spectrum, do you have any resources that you might recommend where I could learn more any books or websites or any podcast or any resources at all, where if I want it to be a better ally, you would say, Hey, Rocki, go check this out.
Dan Burger:I start with the Frist Center for Autism and Innovation website that is vanderbilt.edu, forward slash autism and innovation. And there are lots of resources on how to how to do job interviews, how to be how to support an autistic colleague, and general resources on being on the autism spectrum. And there's plenty of there's plenty of resources online, on YouTube, about how to how to be how to be an ally for someone on the spectrum. And the internet is a great is a great resource, if you know where to look.
Rocki Howard:Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that. And for those who are listening, I will make sure that those resources are in our show notes so that they're easily accessible. Right. So I want to wrap up with two questions that go back to thinking about the workplace, right. So if you could give employers specifically who are committed to diversity, one piece of advice, what what would it be,
Dan Burger:you know, Being on the spectrum and hard I'd say Be patient. It takes a while for people on the spectrum to find to find their niche within a particular job. But when they do, that the results can be there's can be there's a payoff.
Rocki Howard:Absolutely. Like NASA type of payoff. I love that. And then, as we close up today, Dan, here's my final question to you, right. This is this the purpose of this podcast is to give a voice To those who are underrepresented. And so, you know, this is a bit of your time, what would you like to say to our audience about what it feels like to walk through the world, the corporate world, the work world, as someone who's underrepresented,
Dan Burger:I'd, say, I'm so glad that we have people who think about these things. And I'm sure that if you're listening, that you're thinking about diversity, and that's a great thing. And, and it's quite, it's important to think about when you have, when you have a diversity, you can do wonderful things. And I'm really excited to see what things can come out of people who are on the spectrum, who, who, who work in different parts of society, and to see what they can accomplish.
Rocki Howard:I love that. And I so appreciate you saying that. And I do think it's a great message to leave people with Dan, if you're listening to this podcast, it's because you have some type of interest in diversity. And your voice is important and your ally ship is important, because that will enable other people to be in positions to do their best and to make a significant contribution to the world. Dan, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate you. I'm so excited that you are our first guest. And I'm really looking forward to continuing to work together we're doing for with jobs for humanity.
Dan Burger:Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Rocki Howard:Thank you for listening to today's episode. The mission of this podcast is to give a voice to diversity. I believe that the interactions between all voices, minority and majority can change the narrative of how the world communicates. And by changing that narrative, we can change the world. Join our mission to humanize diversity, one story, one conversation at a time by sharing our episodes, especially with those who are privileged and in positions of power. Help the voices of diversity podcast, be a catalyst for courageous conversations, and most importantly, for change. I'm your host Rocki Howard