Episode 3 - Voice of Black Leadership - Kave Bulambo

I'm Rocki Howard and I'm not only your host, but I am proud to be Chief Diversity Officer at SmartRecruiters. 

In honor of Black History Month, The Voices of Diversity podcast is kicking off our Black Leadership Series sponsored by SmartRecruiters with my colleague Kave Bulambo.

Kave Bulumbo is SmartRecruiters' EMEA Director of Talent Acquisition and Diversity and Inclusion. Kave is also the Founder of Black in Tech in Berlin. 

Kave has a Bachelor's Degree in Industrial Psychology and a Masters Degree in Public Policy and uses her boundless energy to advocate for gender and immigrant rights.

In this episode, Kave speaks boldly about her journey to identify as a black woman, the ramifications of bringing your whole self to work, and how being a black woman in Corporate America feels like walking on glass. 

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Transcript

Rocki Howard: 0:15

Welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm your host Rocki. Howard, I identify as she, her black, Christian GenX, wife, mom. These attributes are dimensions of my diversity of who I am. They are part of my unique value proposition and how I add value to the world. And I believe it is time for the world to hear the stories of people like me, those who are underrepresented in corporate America. The mission of this podcast is to humanize diversity, one story, one conversation at a time to share the impact on those who identify as being underrepresented as they go through life in corporate America. I hope you will listen to this episode with open hearts and open minds. As today's guests tell their story. They are a voice of diversity. February in certain parts of the globe is known as Black History Month. In acknowledgment, celebrate celebration, and in partnership with our sponsor smart recruiters. We will be hosting a series of chats with just a few smart recruiters best and brightest black leaders. If you are not familiar, smart recruiters is leading the modern talent acquisition suite market and I am so proud to be smart recruiters Chief Diversity Officer ready to replace your old school ATMs and help your organization achieve hiring success. Then check us out at smart recruiters.com we are going to launch the series with cafe bellomo Coffee smart recruiters imia Director of talent acquisition and diversity and inclusion. She is also the founder of black and tech Berlin, a community that provides engagement education and a support system for black tech professionals living in Berlin, Germany. kabe has a bachelor's degree in Industrial psychology and a master's degree in Public Policy. Kava uses her boundless energy to advocate for gender and immigrant rights. While spending her days focused on bringing more women of every color into the tech space. This is going to be a great episode. As coffee Belinda shares her experiences as the voice of black leadership. Welcome to a very special episode of the voices of diversity podcast. And one of the reasons why this episode is so special is because I get to chat with my friend and my smart recruiters colleague kabe today. And so this should be a great, great conversation. So Connie, I want to kick it over to you Will you please introduce yourself to our audience? And given the multiple dimensions of diversity? Tell us how you identify.

Kave Bulambo: 3:33

Awesome Thank you for having me. I'm excited. It's also actually going to be black history month in Germany in February. So we have a lot to celebrate together across nations. So I am First of all, I identify as she her hers. I'm also a mom, I'm also wife, Miss sister also identifies an advocate for gender rights for women and girls. I'm an immigrant and the child of immigrants are second generation. And my children are third generation immigrant. And professionally, I'm a talent acquisition specialist.

Rocki Howard: 4:16

I love that. So you are immigrants. You're currently living in Germany. Where is your origin for what? What's your origin?

Kave Bulambo: 4:25

I forgot about that. I was born in the Congo in the DRC. And I spent half of my adult life in South Africa before mobile. Oh, wow.

Rocki Howard: 4:39

Wow. Wow. I love that. So tell me do you identify as being black? Do you identify as being African from a cultural perspective? How do you identify? Hmm.

Kave Bulambo: 4:52

So I've actually it's been a journey for me in terms of finding my identity and how it changes across time. In spaces. So from the DRC point of view, we identify ourselves as Congolese. So from that point on our is just a Congolese young woman. And it's only when I moved to South Africa when I started learning about the differences between races. And of course, this is because of the history of South Africa. Everybody is divided according to race. So I became black in South Africa. But I fully fully did not own it, I still cling to my Congolese, I'm Congolese, but I'm living in South Africa, I didn't, there was no space where I needed to go every day and say, I'm black. And that is because black people are the majority in South Africa. So we're, you know, we feel at home. But I was introduced to blackness in South Africa, and in only up amplified when I moved to Germany, when we became a minority, you know, in Europe, and I really, you know, I didn't fully own the the terminology or the identity black, but that's how we are identified here in Germany. And so of course, in the beginning, I was still saying I'm Congolese, and I'm African. That's what I was saying. And then eventually, I just, you know, suck, you know, what, everybody every term that is, you know, in relation to people who look like me in German, yeah, he says black, he doesn't say African. And there's really nothing wrong with it. Personally. There are some experiences where it means something bad, but I have felt like why not on the identity are black, and I'm African, you know, with, with African ancestry, you know, I mean, eventually, we all have African ancestry. Right. So

Rocki Howard: 6:57

I love that. I love that. And, you know, I do think that I appreciate you sharing your journey with us, because I think it opens up a thought process for people about how many people have to go on that type of journey, just to be able to identify. So that's a powerful, powerful story. And it, it leads me to a question that I want to ask you, right, and I don't know if you have an opinion on this, but there's lots of conversations about cultural categorization, for lack of a better term. And so we hear the term bipoc, we hear the term epic. Now, we hear the term minority, we hear underrepresented. What do you think is the right term? Do you have one of those terms that you like more than another? Do you have a recommendation? What's your point of view?

Kave Bulambo: 7:54

Okay. So before, before starting the work that I do around advocacy for black people, and people of African descent in Germany, I was totally fine with people going with whatever they wanted to go with. But then when the conversation really about Black Lives Matter came up, and you know, we started talking about racism, I realized that people have a hard time saying black, they just have a hard time saying black, because then it brings up to the surface, all the connotations that go with the term black in this society. So it's not that we I feel bad about being black, I don't feel bad. I don't walk around thinking I'm black. I just walk around as a human being, you know, going my way, you know, doing the things that I love until I am reminded, you know, of the color of my skin then about Oh, okay, I'm black, you know, so those are the only instances so for for people who are not black, it's hard for them to say, black, you know, and I would encourage people to say black, it's not a bad thing to say, black people, black children, black women, black men, like there's really nothing wrong about it. It's really, what do you have behind that? That matters? You know, in what context? Are you speaking about black people? When it comes to bipoc? I feel like it's like a scapegoat, like, an escape route to say, you know, we have bipoc you know, employees, what, what does that mean? You know, what, what does it mean? You know, because it means black people of color, you know, indigenous people, do you really have them in your company? Really? Do you really have them? You know, so I would encourage people to identify people as they are and off really, like put everyone in a basket and put them under one experiences, because I can't really claim the experiences of Indigenous women in the US. We don't have indigenous people in Germany, for example, like, you know, so it's really the context within which we use these terms, or people who are not from this particular group, it's really to their advantage and to escape their realities and the actions that they need to take, you know, that red dress, they're on racism or actions that they need to take around diversity.

Rocki Howard: 10:24

So just be bold, to own it be bold. If you're, if you're it's an uncomfortable thing for some people get comfortable being uncomfortable. And if you don't know how someone identifies, just as I

Kave Bulambo: 10:38

just asked them, I have no problem telling them a black woman, you

Rocki Howard: 10:43

know, got it. You mentioned that you are obviously identify as a talent acquisition professional, and you've also been a strong advocate. So can you tell us a little bit about your career, tell us what you do for a living. Tell us what you've done for a living. Tell us how you got to your current role. And for those that don't know, have a is smart recruiters director of talent acquisition and diversity. So take us on a bit of a journey coffee, tell us a little bit about how you got in this industry. The other advocacy work that I believe led you to here and then how you wound up in this role.

Kave Bulambo: 11:26

Thank you that you mentioned that it's a it's a journey that should take you on the journey. Because I feel like every career path is a journey that you go on as an individual that will lead you to where you are at the moment. Of course, that's if you're conscious about it. But if I have to look back, I've always had this desire to help people. And so I didn't want to be a doctor, I didn't want to be a psychotherapist, I said I want some other kind of problems that I can help people with, that does not involve real life personal experiences. And so I choose to study I chose to study psychology. Wow. And then I majored in industrial psychology because I really wanted to be in the working world or the labor, you know, conversation. So I majored in industrial psychology. And when I finished my bachelor's degree, I started to work with a nonprofit organization. And my job, there was a trainer. And I used to train young people to become young leaders, young professionals ready to start thinking about their lives overall, in high school, and once completing that they go into the world. And it was such a fulfilling experience

Unknown: 12:44

that I can imagine,

Kave Bulambo: 12:46

that I had, but that was really the foundation of really like me delving into the people space. Next to that, of course, I always drove from my own experiences and life experiences. I thought about my mom, moving to South Africa as an immigrant woman, and myself and my siblings, and I'm the first graduate. So in my family. And I have been afforded so many opportunities from the get go simply because I went to school. And so I take that with me, every time I have something better, I look around and see who needs it. And so I've always carried this, this passion to help women, especially women from migrant background, because of my mom, of course. And with that, I studied gender studies, I took another degree to do gender studies, and also was doing community work with refugee women in South Africa. And this was mostly to empower them to find a way to live sustainably. And why do this is because migrant women are not afforded the opportunity to get jobs, so they don't get four more jobs. So they think for more markets. And so they have to survive. And some of the things that they need is language skills, and skills. And you know, as I evolve, I thought of more things like suing or computer skills or anything that they can do with their hands. And yeah, we I started an NGO called women across Buddha's.

Rocki Howard: 14:21

Like, I just want to pause there for a minute, you just say that, like most people just wake up in the morning and start an NGO. Right, let's pause for a minute. It's an incredible accomplishment.

Kave Bulambo: 14:35

Thank you, thank you. But as I always think about the things that I have in my hand, and I the influence that I have, and I think about who could this influence that I have benefits, you know, because I already have this power, this authority, this knowledge, this connections, and I just use them in the best way that I can and it is through that work with women. refugee women, migrant women that led me to Germany to pursue a master's degree in Public Policy, because I figured out that, yes, you can work restrooms, but actually, the policies matter more. And I needed to, I felt like I needed a higher position to actually influence the rules and the laws that we put in place to ensure that women and girls are successful, especially refugee women,

Rocki Howard: 15:26

sustainable impact and sustainable change. Exactly. And

Kave Bulambo: 15:29

so I embarked on the journey to study public policy and global governance in Germany. And it was really great, really good learning experience. And once I completed that, by some miracle, I guess it was meant to be the first job I got was in HR and not in public policy. And I was just like, what is this? I want to work in policy, I want to influence policy. And, you know, I, I struggled a little bit to figure out how to connect this, my previous career experiences to my, to my current environment is was Germany, I hadn't seen the impact of everything that I had done before, and how they could incorporate in this society, because there's always this idea that the developed world is way ahead, is more advanced. And so there's really nothing to fix. But the truth is, there are as many immigrant women here, there's many refugee women here, there's many women at work here, who are looking for very, very similar opportunities that the women that are in Africa in other places are looking for. And so when I was able to connect those dots, between finding space for women, and underrepresented groups in the workspace, and I was so fortunate to be in tech, oh, Zack, Oh, my gosh, there's this whole industry, cool technology, oh, my goodness, that women can just learn how to code, you know, this is all they need. And so I started developing my passion from there, how to bring more women, more people of underrepresented groups into technology, and finding out how everything else studied actually led me to this space that I am in today. And since then, I've been in Berlin, working in the talent acquisition field, also doing a lot of employer branding and community building. I'm so passionate about community building. Even if you don't pay me to do that, I'll find a way to do that. And so next to my talent acquisition role, I've also started a community called Black in tech Berlin, you know, where we empower black professionals, we see where they're, what are they looking for? And how can we create a space where they can access resources and opportunities.

Rocki Howard: 18:05

We'll make sure that the link to that resource group is connected in our show notes so that people can support it. I love that I love that you you. It's incredible. And you do that, and your wife and mom as well. It's absolutely incredible what you do. I can't believe we're already halfway through our time today. You There's something I want to ask you, as we transition, a little bit of an echo kind of weird. I'm sure there's something I want to ask you as we transition, right. And you live in multiple worlds, you've lived in multiple locations, you speak multiple languages. And there is this thing that I believe several of us who are minorities in the workspace, and especially when you're black, we have to engage in and it's called code switching, right? So I want you to tell me is essentially, in all of the ways that you've worked? Can you tell us about a situation where maybe you felt the need to code switch to maintain your career status or to move forward?

Kave Bulambo: 19:17

So I, when I was thinking about that question, I felt like I had to do a lot of code switching in the beginning of my career. So I could just fit in, especially here in Berlin, because most of the time was the only black woman on team or the only black woman in the entire company. So I had to just like, you know, do the things that the majority of people were doing, you know, I have kids, most of the phone team did not have kids. And that was really the hardest part because people did not understand why I had to leave early. Why I had to attend a school meeting. You know, everybody was in their 20s and you know, just completely different kind of, of backgrounds. And so examples will be like, let's go out after work, suck, man, I can do this once, you know, once a month, but I don't want to do this every Friday, you know, but if I didn't do that, then I was considered not a team player, you know, right. At the back of my mind, every time I'm there, I'm just thinking about my kids. You know, I'm just like, I don't know what's happening at home. But I need to get out of here. But you know, in that moment, I have to just be there and pretend that everything is fine. So those who are like, my moment, of course, switching as a mom,

Rocki Howard: 20:46

it shouldn't be to make a decision for caring for your children, or going out to feel like you're included, right? So that's a message to the people who are listening in in the majority, you need to really think about how you you are forcing people to participate in activities, because the other side of it is exclusion. Right? Go ahead, you were gonna share another bit with us. Yeah,

Kave Bulambo: 21:15

another thing that I did, though, was code switching, but in a positive way. I just decided to be like, extra black. Like, I was just like, you know what, I have no time for this. I just like cut my hair. And just like, you know, I became really vocal about, you know, who I am and the things that I want to do and the things that I like to do. And the things that I think I'm not supposed to be doing, you know, and really like having candid conversations, and they did not go down? Well, because they expectation is, you know, I should be told what to do, you know, and I was not standing up for that. And that really made my life a nightmare. Like one company, I worked at

Rocki Howard: 22:03

how so let's dig into that. Like, what were the repercussions? You know, so we especially in the tech industry, right? We love to say in tech, bring your whole self to work. So tell this audience, what were the ramifications when you actually brought your whole self to work, I was considered difficult.

Kave Bulambo: 22:24

I was no longer included in some conversations, especially in meetings. I was not considered the most, you know, the one of the contributors, important contributors on team, because he was currently now difficult to work with me. My manager found it hard to have conversation with me and they will have conversation with somebody else to come in Tell me. And the person of course, will be a senior and I will just like tell them how how it is and how it was. And of course, then it becomes like a game a chase game. But I said I'm just gonna be as honest as possible. But I don't think this is the way it's supposed to be. If they felt that way, they need to come back to me and tell tell me. Yeah, I had moments where I was told off during meetings with literally I am presenting and somebody on team will stand up and say, No, that's not true. Just like you're supposed to be on my team. If it's true, or if it's not true, you're supposed to message me or say it in a way Hey, Kobe. You know, I was also looking at the same numbers, the same statistics, and I saw this maybe, is it the same thing, you're talking about this the way you talk to someone? Not in a way that shows them that you're on the same team with you? And there's the way you talk to someone when you want to discredit them? And that was my scenario. It that specific company, and it was,

Rocki Howard: 23:59

hell. Gosh, how, like you said it was held, describe how that made you feel? And ultimately, I think the lesson is, you're obviously not with that company anymore. Right? You chose not to work there. But help our audience for someone who's never been in that situation. help people understand what that felt like personally for you.

Kave Bulambo: 24:24

It was really, really sad. So the context everybody has to understand that I was the only black person on team I was the only black woman I was the only parent on my team. And everybody else on Team felt that they were better than me simply because they felt they were better than me. Do I better doing the jobs and this was my first time being in tech. So I think you know that was being used against me because you know, as Tom said, we all need to learn understand where we are trying to connect the dots. You know, so that we can fully do our work. But I was never given that opportunity. So, you know, instances like not being invited to Team lunches, like saying hi to managers that they walk past me, like straight. Like, I'm looking at you Rocky. And I said, Hi, and you will pass me. I used to cry. Honestly, I used to come home. And I tell my husband, though, like, you know, I don't want to go back there. I do not want to go back there. I usually used to cry. And there are people in other team that's so what happened to me what was happening in it, but they had no influence to like, you know, change the way people treated me in that team. But they did come to me and say, We're so sorry about what's happening. You're such a great person, you know, just keep doing what you're doing. But you know, yeah, that's just how it was. Wow, until I decided that okay, this is it. This is the end of this journey, by us really, from top up?

Rocki Howard: 26:04

Yeah. So I want to, I want to stop there for a minute. For a lot of people. If you ask them, they will say that they are an ally, okay. But when the moment comes to be able to speak up, defend someone, and challenge the behavior that other people are imposing, on underrepresented, those allies often don't take that stand, you are not an ally, if you sneak behind the curtain, and say you're a great person, you are an ally, if you stand with that person, and look the bully in the face and say, This is not acceptable. So while we're on the subject of allies, Covey, has there been someone that you would call out as a great ally? And a mentor to you that has supported your career? And if so, could you tell us a little bit about that person? And how they've made a difference for you?

Kave Bulambo: 27:06

Yes. So in that same environment, I had two women, I see three women, who were my allies. Of course, they did not, you know, come to my team and kind of intervene and, you know, and say what you're doing is really not great. But they will literally like make sure like, we they will invite me for lunch, we'll talk about, you know, our work outside of, you know, what we do the company? What kind of projects are we doing? What am I looking for? What are they looking for? Usually, these allies, they were not from this specific context. So there are also women who moved to Germany, you know, to pursue their careers. But among them, there were two women who identify as white and one woman who identify as Asian. And they're really, really, really treated me well. And up to today, we still have contact and the kind of conversations we had one not necessarily like, me going to them and say, Hey, you know what, I have the situation in my team, what do you think I should do? We'll have this conversation who I'll go and cry to them. And they will be there, listen to me, and say, oh, my goodness, we wish, you know, things were better, but stay strong, stay smart, you know, we're gonna create the, you know, diversity resource group, you know, and we'll join it together with you and other people. And to me, it's only after, after leaving, then I realize how much that support was so important for me in that moment, you know, because as soon as I'm sure everybody needs to protect their jobs, you know, people need to find ways to advocate that feels right for them. And if I was to say, hey, by, you know, you're white, you can talk to your fellow white people did treat me better, that would have been such a, you know, a burden put on them. But the fact that they just afforded me that empathy, to sit down with me and hear where I'm at. And what I'm going through, was so helpful that even today, we're in different countries now. We still feel like sisters, you know, there's no, there's no sugarcoating anything around here. It's really about the relationship that we develop now together with each other. So

Rocki Howard: 29:30

I love that. I simply cannot believe that we've already gone through our 30 minutes, I could talk to you for hours, and I appreciate your transparency and just really putting your heart on the line and sharing your story with us. As we wrap up today. As you know, I've created this platform to give a voice to those who are underrepresented. So I just want to give you a few minutes and I'd like for you to tell us what it feels like to walk through the World of corporate as an underrepresented. And maybe you could wrap that up by giving a piece of advice to, to people who really want to be more inclusive.

Kave Bulambo: 30:13

So it feels like you're walking on glass every day. Because you're alone, right, and everybody else who looks the same as that on the sidewalk, walking, standing and seeing how you walking. And this is performance, right. So your performance is always being watched, to a point where you can get anxious, or you can say, you know, what, I'm gonna be myself, I'm gonna bring my whole self to work, and I'm going to do what I can do, without being afraid and being shameful of being anxious. You know, just put your best work forward, put your foot forward, and just do the things that you love to do. It takes a lot of time, and you're going to need to build confidence if you are in these spaces where you're alone, but once you figure out your craft, there's no question about it. Because your work speaks for itself. You know, there's no question about it. And lastly, is just being humble, you know, being human with other human and recognize situations that you need to walk away from when you don't even need to put a contribution to like you don't have to have every kind of conversations about people who do not actually want to hear, you know, they really do not want to understand where you come from, but they just want to have, you know, conversations that lead nowhere with no action, but don't engage in those kinds of conversations, talk to people who actually I intentional, but what they want to do in terms of diversity, but also in terms of just wanting to know you as a person.

Rocki Howard: 31:49

Yeah. Yeah, the humanity of it all, the humanity of it all. And I think that's perfect advice to that goes both ways. Because I think when you want to be a more inclusive leader, when you want to understand more when you want to create a culture of equity and inclusion and belonging, it starts with humility. And it starts with understanding and it starts with one story and one conversation at a time. Copy. I'm so proud to be your colleague and your friend at smart recruiters. I'm so glad that that's not the experience that we have that smart recruiters and you are in a situation where you can absolutely shine. Thank you so much for spending time with me today.

Kave Bulambo: 32:37

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, and I'm looking forward to hearing other stories as well.

Rocki Howard: 32:47

Thank you for listening to today's episode. The mission of this podcast is to give a voice to diversity. I believe that the interactions between all voices, minority and majority can change the narrative of how the world communicates. And by changing that narrative, we can change the world. Join our mission to humanize diversity, one story, one conversation at a time by sharing our episodes, especially with those who are privileged and in positions of power. Help the voices of diversity podcast, be a catalyst for courageous conversations, and most importantly, for change. I'm your host Rocki Howard