Voices of Diversity host Rocki Howard speaks to guest Sandhna Chintoe who is a Managing Director International at Cammio.
Sandhna and I have a woman to woman chat about being young mothers, the constant compromises young women building a career face, and the resulting emotional tax.
Check out Sandhna's episode as she chats to us as a Voice of the Young, Gifted, and Hindu.
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Voices of Diversity host Rocki Howard speaks to guest Sandhna Chintoe who is a Managing Director International at Cammio.
Sandhna and I have a woman to woman chat about being young mothers, the constant compromises young women building a career face, and the resulting emotional tax.
Check out Sandhna's episode as she chats to us as a Voice of the Young, Gifted, and Hindu.
Resources
Connect with Us
Welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm your host, Rocki. Howard, and the purpose of this podcast to humanize diversity, one story, one conversation at a time. I want our listeners to understand the significance and the impact that racism, bias and an equity have on real people. I want our guests to have the opportunity to share the challenges that we the underrepresented face in the corporate world, that media is AI, and the overall world that we live in, through sharing, listening, understanding, and committing to take small actions towards change. Together, we can impact the diversity narrative, one story, one conversation at a time. And by changing the narrative, we can change the world.
Sandhna Chintoe:I think sometimes at the end of the day, where you had a lot of meetings, you're literally exhausted, because you're, you are yes yourself but also playing this role. But I also think that when you invest, and they think that she knows her stuff, you've earned that respect as well. So I think it's it's a big price to pay and you have to maybe work twice as hard. But when you get there, it also based off
Rocki Howard:voices of diversity guests. sonnen, Toronto is managing director international at cameo, sadhana and I have a woman to woman chat about being young mothers, the constant compromises young women building a career face, and the resulting emotional tax checkout sadness episode as she chats to us, as the voice of the young, gifted, and Hindu. Good morning, good afternoon. Good evening from wherever you are in the world. And welcome to the voices of diversity podcast. I'm your host Rocki Howard, and I identify us she her black, Christian, Jen, ex wife, Mom, because I embrace all dimensions of my diversity. And speaking of diversity, you're certainly in for a treat today with our guests. I can't wait for her to tell her story. Sam now will you introduce yourself to our audience? And given the multiple dimensions of diversity? Let us know how you identify.
Sandhna Chintoe:Hi, Rocky, so and listeners? Yeah, so my name is Selena gento. I am the managing director international for cameo video recruitment experts. And I identify as she her Hindu and also a mother.
Rocki Howard:I love that. All right. So tell us how old boy girl How old?
Sandhna Chintoe:My daughter is 20. And I'm 37. So I was a demon as well. Um, so yeah, we're now when she was born, life was difficult. Let's be honest, it's not easy to be 17 to become a mom, find out who you are as a person, let alone who you are as a mother. So that was a struggle. But now 20 years later, loving it.
Rocki Howard:It's incredible. And I can identify with that I wasn't quite 17. I was 21 when I gave birth to my oldest and it's, I'm sure you will agree with this. Do you remember that moment when your daughter turned 17. And you looked at her and you went? Oh my gosh. That's how old I was when I gave birth to her. And how young and dumb was I? Like that's what I did when when I looked at my daughter and she turned 21 I went, this is crazy. Did you have that same moment?
Sandhna Chintoe:Exactly. It's exactly the same feeling. I looked at her. And I went back to my 17 year old and I felt also bit sorry for this girl who suddenly became a mom didn't know and I was so happy for my daughter that she didn't have to go through that whirlwind of emotion and just having an ability to enjoy her teens as a free carefree, carefree teenager.
Rocki Howard:Yeah, I felt the same for my daughters. Like I always wanted them to be able to enjoy becoming an adult where I was just slammed headfirst into it. And, and you do give up something, right? So and maybe we'll come back to that. Let's come back to like that pieces of ourselves that we give up along the way. Way, I'd love to give some context to the audience. Tell them a little bit, I took a peek at your background. And I know it looks like from what I could tell you started a bit in government services. And now you're the global Managing Director for a tech company. Right? So, and you've done it at a young age, like you just said, you told us you're 37, and you are the managing director for a tech company. So I would love to know a little bit about your career, how does one go from being a teenage mom, to working for the government to being under 40, and a managing director for a tech company?
Sandhna Chintoe:Yeah, it all starts with having a power mom myself. So my mom is always a firmer lever, because she didn't have the opportunities growing up. As I did. She grew up hearing them, which is an underdeveloped country, she was allowed to go to school, until high school, and that's it. And then she had to do help in the household get married, and have this very traditional life. So she got three daughters. So she had different ideas and different, different what's the word? ambitions, she had different ambitions for her daughters, she wanted them to study to be successful and lead the life that she couldn't have. So when my daughter was born, I was still studying. So I was in college. And she said to me, okay, you're a mom now, but I will help you as much as I can to achieve whatever you want to achieve. So that's where it started. So I was allowed to do my whole degree, to then start working at the government when I when I graduated. And working in government is very nice job. It's a stable job. It's a flexible job. And especially when you're a young mom, you can combine it very easily. And the hours drop off your children come back early, because your schedule is so flexible, because a government job is just that flexible. But for me and my ambition, it just wasn't enough. I was expected to do X, when you could do X, Y, Zed.
Rocki Howard:That's, that's a tasty little nugget. Like, we sometimes get comfortable doing x when we're capable of doing x, y, and Zed. I love that call out.
Sandhna Chintoe:Exactly. So then just doing x made me very unhappy. I just couldn't anymore. So I did something very bold, I just quit my job. I said, I'm sorry. At first I discussed with my mom, of course, because I needed some
Rocki Howard:help, right? Actually, I
Sandhna Chintoe:needed some help at mom. so unhappy, I'm just going to quit and she said, You do what you need to do, I will be here, I will be here. So then I quit my job. And through a friend, I got a job at a job board, where I was the sales support type of person who was just posting job ads, helping the sales team achieve their targets, just a very supportive role. And within that role, I also noticed that I'm very good with clients. And I'm good on the on the operational side. So then quickly, I grew in becoming a key account manager where our help to key accounts with recruitment, how to post a job advert, how to search for candidates, and more and more I was being becoming responsible for for retention. So a half, half commercial, commercial job. But also what I found out was my tech affinity. He was really good with speaking to developers, really good translating those developer needs with sales, because sales and development, they don't combine. They don't
Rocki Howard:speak the same language do.
Sandhna Chintoe:They don't speak the same language at all. So I was really good in like being this translator in between sales and tech, but then also the client at one point. So I really found that my skills in communications and understanding different people and then translating different messages to those different people was somehow like my skill, I was very adaptable for those different people. So then I decided it may be time now to move on to a tech company. Because this is where the future lies. Tech is where we are going to be and I want to be more in tech. So I applied for this role for this great tech company who were building custom software. And I had to disart design software together with my client go back to development, and they would build it. So it was a very technical role, which was great. But the job itself was great, but I didn't get the flexibility that I needed to live my life. So my work life balance was off. So that was very difficult because you have this job that you love, but then you couldn't combine it with your private life, because I'm still a mom. And that was still very important. So then I decided to take on the job at cameo started as the client success, a client success manager, where I implemented the video recruitment services within the recruitment processes. So to really change and shape recruitment processes, then grew on to be the head of client success. So I built the entire client success strategy. And that also held up the client success team, which was followed by my next promotion as the manager directing.
Rocki Howard:Yep, that is such an incredible story. I'm so proud of you, to you. And I think it leads to a couple of questions in my mind. But I think the most important of those is, you didn't grow up wanting to be in tech, right? Somewhere along the line, you found that you had an affinity for it. You and I both know that there is a gap of women, and certainly women of color in tech, right, both of us as women in tech. Tell me, how do you think we can encourage more women to come into the tech space? Yeah,
Sandhna Chintoe:I think that most women are maybe a bit held back or scared, because when they look at the tech space, it's white male dominated. Let's just call it as it is. Last week, I was a speaker at an event, it was white males. And me.
Unknown:I'm shocked. No, certainly you're wrong. I'm
Sandhna Chintoe:shot. You're very funny poster as well with all the faces. And me. And so I think, girls, you already know growing up kind of if you're good in tech or not. I already knew but I never realized that you were different, or that you were better in understanding tech than maybe other people. But kind of you knew when you see a new program, or when you are learning to deal with a new software program. Sometimes you learn it very quickly, and other people don't. So I think you already know that you have this affinity with tech. And sometimes it's really good to explore that affinity because I also think that, you know, growing up as a girl, you're never encouraged to do tech, you're encouraged in in the direction of more the social kind of jobs,
Unknown:or,
Sandhna Chintoe:or a rule where you think you can combine it better with a family life also possible. And when you look at the tech world, you see, it's fast. You see it's hard work. And you also see a lot of white male. But I do think that if you're there, when you're actually there, it's different than what you think it is.
Rocki Howard:Fair enough. If I'm not mistaking you are based in the Netherlands, right?
Unknown:I am.
Rocki Howard:Okay, so I have to tell you, when I think of Netherlands, I think of white male, like I can't see anything else in the Netherlands. Right? Can you give our audience a sense of what the diversity landscape looks like in the Netherlands?
Sandhna Chintoe:Yeah, so the majority is white here. And then we have a lot of North African people. So also people from India, a lot of Indonesian people because the Netherlands were very active in the colonization of the world. So they they had their little pig in a lot of countries. So there are a lot of Chinese a lot of Indonesian, and then also a lot of people from Suriname, because they were also a colony until 1975, which is a small country in South America, next to above Brazil. And since 1975, went to now became independence, my whole family decided to move to the Netherlands.
Rocki Howard:Very cool. Very cool. Let's, let's go back and pick up on this, you know, kind of some of the challenges you've had in your career, right? And when I think about you've accomplished these milestones at a young age, you're a woman you're a woman of color, Color, you are a young mom, tell me how those factors have made your career journey a bit more challenging.
Sandhna Chintoe:I think from a young age, I already realized that I was different. And that if I wanted to achieve things I had to adapt. So when you apply for a role, I know with my name, that my CV would probably end up on this reject pile. So I know that before I apply for a role, I need to call the company first, then they will hear my voice, then they think, ah, she speaks fluent Dutch. This is a very nice person. So I humanize my, my profile, let's call it that. So from a very young age, I already realized that in this game, I need to humanize myself. So that's step one. And then step two, I think, in all these white dominated companies, you have to slowly teach them what it is to have someone from a different background in that company thinks they can, thinks they can't do things they can say things take or not say, also in the recruitment process, when people let's be honest, people with a funny name, or being rejected by the fact that they have a funny name, pick a fight, because you know that it's not acceptable for a recruitment process to go like that. Because these are people like you and I, people that were born in the Netherlands, based in the Netherlands, just have a different background. They didn't ask to be born here. choices made by ancestors, our ancestors, their ancestors. That's the reason why we're here doesn't mean that we have different views of life, we can be exactly the same, we just have a different background. So those are some of the challenges that you have to face. But you have to, I think as a person that comes from minorities, and also female, you have to be very, maybe careful, almost, and be very sensitive on where you are, and what is the goal that you want to achieve, and communicate in that way. So it's always do you want to pick this battle right now? Or is it better to do it at a later stage? When the impact that you can make is then bigger?
Rocki Howard:Absolutely. Because to have the impact sometimes that we need to have, we need to make sure we have not only a seat at a table, but a seat at the right table to be able to do that. So no, I really, really appreciate this. Talk to me about I think about being the one in the only just like you talked about right? I'm I'm speaking at an event, and I am the one and the only have you faced. I'm sure you face this, but can you share with the audience to the extent that you're comfortable? a situation where you have been on the other side of what we call microaggressions? Or sometimes just blatant questions where you've had a colleague appear an industry peer, someone who just didn't understand you or disrespected you, based on your dimensions of diversity, and can you help us understand what that situation was? And more importantly, how you handled it?
Sandhna Chintoe:I think there are several. When I'm
Unknown:surprised again, right?
Sandhna Chintoe:Yeah, so I think when people meet me the first time I'm short, I'm young. I also look very young. And then I'm also a girl. So sometimes when I arrived with my CEO was while white male, so they almost feel like I'm his assistant, I am someone like in a more supportive role. And I always have to explain who I am. Instead of with him, they always assume that he is the boss which is sometimes very, it is what it is, right? You just accept and you continue, but sometimes you feel like they could have done your research their research, they could have already known. And then also, you change behavior because I don't want to be that, girl. Let's put it like that. So I taught myself that if you don't smile, people take you seriously. When I was a lot younger, I had to give trainings to big groups of recruiters. I would wear fake glasses just for people to take me serious. And that will help. Which is crazy that you have to change your appearance for people to take you more seriously because they see this girl walking into their boardroom. And I want people to listen to me. So I stopped smiling. That already helped. So people take you seriously because when you smile, they think She's a nice girl, I can do whatever during her training. That's not possible. That won't happen to me. But I did need to change things in my appearance or in my behavior for people to take me more seriously. In my role.
Rocki Howard:Yeah, yeah, I think about First of all, honestly, what's going through my head is it's a shame anytime the world is robbed of your smile, because it's absolutely gorgeous. And it just makes you feel good. And we should never be robbed of your smile. But as I listened to some of the things that you've talked about today, it's about you taking responsibility for how you show up in the world, it's about you teaching people how to interact with you. And that is a, it's a huge responsibility, often known as an emotional tax, tell us the impact that some of these things that you've had to take on have had on you personally, what's the emotional tax, you've paid for your success?
Sandhna Chintoe:I think sometimes at the end of the day, where you had a lot of meetings, you're literally exhausted. Because you're, you are Yes, yourself but also playing this role. Right, having to be bigger having to raise your voice, trying to get this subject of a wild white dominated a conversation, go back to something that you can also participate in. So it's that is, I think, very much the price that that you have to pay. But I also think that in when you invest, and they think that she knows her stuff, you earn that respect as well. So I think it's, it's a big price to pay, and you have to maybe work twice as hard. But when you get there, it also pays off. And I also feel that some it is what you have to do to get where you want to be. And then you pay that price.
Rocki Howard:Makes perfect sense. I'm just curious, because you have multiple dimensions of diversity. Is there a bias that you face? Given those multiple dimensions? That's more frustrating to you then then another?
Sandhna Chintoe:Yes, for sure. I think the bias, it used to be more when I get older, it's getting less. But when I was younger, I also got I've gotten the comments. Oh, your dad, she's great. And then I said, Okay, great. But I was born here. So it's my first language. It's almost the only language I speak. So why shouldn't it be great? Little things like that, that people expect that I'm not that knowledgeable about what I do when they see me. Little things like that. When I was a young mom, working with my daughter, and having the the stigma of having of being a teen mom, and not being able to succeed in life, or things like that. It's just, yeah, what is already there.
Rocki Howard:And it's tough. It's really, really tough. So now you are a female tech executive and a female tech executive of color who has certainly overcome tremendous odds. I'm curious, what responsibility Do you feel towards other females and tech
Sandhna Chintoe:I feel that we should connect more because I also feel that men connect more than females I think females we have to fight and struggle so much to get where we are that we are that we sometimes forget to find allies. To connect more I feel that men are better in getting their network and having this bro men's professional bro men's network in there. If I can say it's very difficult to get in that male dominated bro network. So I think we women should all So, network more, gather more. So I'm trying to connect with more client success directors who are female, to speak about their experience to learn from their experiences, just to feel that we have each other's backs. And that we can learn and support each other. And then also show the world that that other girls can be like this as well. There is room there is space, they just need to take it. Because that's also what it is you need to take it,
Rocki Howard:there's room there space, you just need to take it. I absolutely love that. She you know what you you talk a little bit about the importance of ally ship and being able to gather together, I'd like to know if there's one thing that you could say to an ally out ally out there right now, if there's one thing that an ally could do to help further the diversity cause to change the diversity narrative, what's the one thing you would say go do today?
Sandhna Chintoe:I think if you could hire someone that is different than you are, who scares you, makes you nervous, hire that person. Because that is the person that will make your company better.
Rocki Howard:I love that love that. Let me ask you this, too, especially because you're a leader in a company, when companies are now looking at their diversity initiatives. And a lot of those initiatives include equity initiatives that give certain demographics, a bit of an advantage so we can get to equality, we need to get through equity before we get through equality. And sometimes there's pushback that that feels like reverse discrimination. I'd love to hear your point of view on that.
Sandhna Chintoe:I think, yes, it is reverse discrimination. But we have to reverse what has already happened. And so yes, if you can hire someone, if you are able to hire someone from a minority background, then please do because then the 10s of years, those people have not been hired, they have not been able to get where they need to be. And that is the reason why so many companies are not diverse, because people are hiring people like themselves. And then because diverse people scare them. That's what I think they find it difficult to relate maybe. So if you are hiring more people that are not like yourselves, those people will hire people that are not like themselves, and that will end you will become a diverse company. And before that, it will never happen.
Rocki Howard:representation matters. It really does. She you know that our platform is all about giving a voice to those who are underrepresented. And so I want to give you the mic, I would really like for you to paint a picture for our audience for allies that might be listening on what it's felt like for you, you know, as a young woman of color, or early mom, right? A teenage mom, tell us what it's been like for you to walk through the corporate world wearing those dimensions of diversity.
Sandhna Chintoe:I think, first of all, you should own them. Because they make you who you are, and probably are also the basis of your success. And then, when you are comfortable enough of with being yourself, you can find your path to having success in that corporate life. But it is tricky. You need to be careful because not everyone is your ally. Not everyone wants you at places that you are. So you also need to find those allies and find those supporters that will help you get on in your career because those people are also people that you need. And I was lucky enough to find people that saw the talent in me, and then also helped me continue on and develop me in continuing on in that career. So my advice would be be, be yourself, embrace who you are. And also find try to find allies in your life. And also don't give up because I also really feel that if you want something, you can get it but you just need to work hard for it and sometimes a bit harder than other people.
Rocki Howard:I love that. I am so happy that we were connected I'm so happy that we're part of each other's community now. And I am so very grateful today for you being a voice of diversity. Thank you so much for joining us.
Sandhna Chintoe:Thank you so much Rocki for having me.
Rocki Howard:Thank you for listening to today's episode. The mission of this podcast is to give a voice to diversity. I believe that the interactions between all voices, minority and majority can change the narrative of how the world communicates. And by changing that narrative, we can change the world. Join our mission to humanize diversity, one story, one conversation at a time by sharing our episodes, especially with those who are privileged and in positions of power. Help the voices of diversity podcast, be a catalyst for courageous conversations, and most importantly, for change. I'm your host Rocki Howard