Ep. 41 - Introverted Leaders with Terrance Lee

Introverts can be amazing leaders!  However, the approach and strategies will differ from those of extroverts.  Terrance Lee, the Introvert Leader, joins as a guest to discuss how to embrace your introverted strengths and get to know yourself to excel in leadership.  Terrance has a book launching October 29, 2021, Quiet Voice Fearless Leader - 10 Principles for Introverts to Awaken the Leader Inside.

Guest: Terrance Lee

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Quiet Voice Fearless Leader - 10 Principles for Introverts to Awaken the Leader Inside - New Release!

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David Hall

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Transcript

Terrance Lee [00:00:00]:

I think when I finally stopped looking at being an introvert, like, a bad thing, and I started to actually look at it like, no, this is me. This is who I am. And guess what? There are strengths about this. There are good things about being who I am. That was really the turning point.

David Hall [00:00:26]:

Hello and welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced normally. We'll air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Today, I'm excited for our guest Terrence Lee, the introvert leader. And Terrence Lee is about to release a book, and we'll let him talk about that in a bit. So welcome, Terrence. It's great to have you on the show.

Terrance Lee [00:01:07]:

Yeah, I appreciate it, David. I'm happy to be here.

David Hall [00:01:11]:

And leadership is such an important topic for introverts. There's so many myths around introversion, and I hear a question, can introverts be leaders? And to me, it's a silly question. It's like, of course, it's just as I will tell you or Terrence will tell you, it looks different. There are certain strategies that introverts would employ that will look different from their extroverted colleagues. So October 29 terrence is releasing Quiet Voice fearless Leader ten Principles for Introverts to awaken the leader inside. So very exciting. I've had a chance to read the first chapter, really enjoyed it and looking forward to reading the whole thing when it comes out. So, again, welcome Terrence, and tell us a little bit about yourself and then, of course, your journey to understand that you were introvert and how you embraced that. So give us a little bit background on you.

Terrance Lee [00:02:16]:

Yeah, absolutely. So I like to start from the beginning. So I was a kid that grew up moving around a lot. My dad was taking different positions and things, and so I grew up going to a number of different schools. And so when I was younger, I was actually pretty vocal. I was a kid that would raise my hand in class a lot. I would talk a lot, make different friends, things like that. And then when I got to the 7th grade, when I was 13, there's an incident that happened one day with a choir director. She said something to me that really impacted my confidence in a lot of ways. And so from that moment in middle school and even going into high school and into college, I started to become a lot more just quiet, a lot more reserved in terms of being in front of people, talking like public speaking or leading groups or anything. I just didn't want anything to do with it. I stopped raising my hand in class. I just changed in a lot of ways in terms of who I was. And so when I was in college at Florida A-M-I majored in electrical engineering. I graduated from there, and I got my first job offer at Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas. And so in that role, I was put in certain situations where I was basically going to present in front of some very smart people in these rooms that I just never would have thought I'd be presenting in front of. And honestly, I was pretty uncomfortable at first because I didn't like speaking in front of people. And what I learned from those initial experiences in my engineering career and then up to now, where now I'm in leadership roles as a program manager at a defense contractor and also a functional manager, where I'm responsible for large teams and execution, is that I've learned to use my introversion actually to an advantage. There are a lot of things about being an introvert that I think are strengths. And I realize that I know there are other people in the world like me that maybe for a long time didn't think they could be a leader or didn't think they could reach certain points in their life unless they were extroverted or unless they were the loudest voice in the room. And so the whole point for what I do with the introvert leader in my book is really just to empower people with introverted personalities, to realize that they are powerful. Their being an introvert is actually a strength and really to focus on.

David Hall [00:04:50]:

That very nice. So at what point did you put a name with it that this is introversion and how did you embrace that?

Terrance Lee [00:05:01]:

Yeah, so that's a great question. I'll be honest and say that for a long time I didn't know much about what introversion meant. I didn't know the difference between introversion and extroversion. I just knew that I was different in my mind, different from a lot of other people. So I had friends, close circles, things like that. But my friends were always a lot more extroverted. They were always the type that if we went out somewhere, they were going to be the one to meet new people and make new friends. And I was the one where if it was just us, I'd be okay. We could talk forever. But whenever a new person would enter the situation or whenever the dynamic would change, I would kind of back up a little bit. And I never knew what that was about. I just thought, Well, I guess I'm different, or they want to be out all day with people and I want to go home sometimes and be by myself. I didn't know what any of that meant. And then, honestly, through the process of writing this book, which I started early last year, prior to starting writing that book, is when I started to really research more about personality types. I started to learn more about myself. I started to learn about the difference between introversion and extroversion. Right. So it's really a recent discovery, to be honest with you, as of the past few years.

David Hall [00:06:23]:

Okay, but you were starting to learn how to use your strengths even though you weren't calling it introversion at that point, right?

Terrance Lee [00:06:36]:

Absolutely.

David Hall [00:06:39]:

Man, it's so common to hear people say, I didn't know what it was. I felt like there was something wrong with me. And hey, that's why we're doing our work, right? We want people to understand what their strengths are. And there's nothing wrong with them. They're just going to take a different approach. They're going to embrace their leadership style and other strengths. And of course, we both know there's also many different types. You can't just say all introverts are this way, but there's some commonalities that we can talk about for sure.

Terrance Lee [00:07:13]:

Definitely.

David Hall [00:07:14]:

So on this show, we do some myth busting and also strategies to embrace your introversion. Is there a couple of common myths around introversion that you want to bust, and it could have to do with leadership, for sure.

Terrance Lee [00:07:31]:

Oh, definitely. So I think that one of the biggest myths about introverts is that we're quiet, right? That's the one that we hear all the time. So why are you so quiet? Introverts are so quiet. And what so many people don't realize that say that is, in the right situations, we can be very talkative. I know for me and a lot of people that are more introverted than I know, when they're in a comfortable setting, when they know those people that they're around, when it's their circle, I like to call it, they can talk for hours and be good. But I think there's this huge misperception that introverts are just quiet and don't have anything to say, and so much of that is just not true. The other thing about that, too, is that sometimes we are being quiet, but it doesn't mean and this goes back, I think, to leadership, it doesn't mean that we don't have value to add. It doesn't mean that we're not present in the moment. Right? Like, we might just be thinking there may be a conversation going on and people are talking back and forth, exchanging ideas, and they may assume, oh, that person is just quiet. They don't have anything to say. Well, no, that may not be the case. It may be that they're sitting there and their mind is going a mile a minute. They're thinking about things, they're observing things. Right. So I think that's another big misperception around quietness. I think there's just a lot there that's not understood.

David Hall [00:09:00]:

Yeah, I'll tell you, I know I could speak. For me, it's not quite in my mind. There's all kinds of thoughts going on and a big difference. One of the big epiphanies for me was when I heard someone say that introverts think and then speak and extroverts speak in order to think. And that's a huge communication difference and often we're thinking, and we're only going to share what we think is really important, whereas the extrovert might just share most everything. You might be thinking, like you said, and someone thinks you're being extra quiet, but really it's just you're thinking about something and you're going to share. And that's something that we need to understand as leaders too, is how to help everybody get their time to speak, kind of thing. What do you think makes a great leader? And what strategies are different for the introverted leader? How do they approach that?

Terrance Lee [00:10:00]:

Yeah, so I think being a leader, there's just so much to that and I continue to learn, I continue to learn myself. But I think that one of the things about being a leader is having empathy for your people, not viewing yourself as better than or because I'm the leader or I'm on some pedestal. I think it's having empathy for your people, and not just empathy, but being willing to realize you don't know everything and you need your people. I think so much of leadership is a collaboration, a collaborative environment, right? It's not just, hey, I'm the leader, what I say goes, or, I'm better than anyone, it's actually, I'm in service to the people that I lead. So I think collaboration and just that empathy is so key as far as being an introvert and being a leader. One of the things that I think is a huge strength is our ability to observe, like we were just talking about. I think sometimes in situations where, like in my industry, there are very tight deadlines and all these different things and you have a to do list that's a mile long and all this has to get done and you're in these conversations and just the ability to sit back and observe discussions, observe what's going on, think about things from a different perspective. As opposed to, just like you said, where the extrovert does it differently. They just kind of say the first thing that comes to their mind. They speak everything out. Where my leadership style is more so to listen to everyone's thoughts, listen to their concerns, how are they viewing things, right? Picking up on body language, picking up on just different things that other people might be missing. So I think that's a huge advantage for introverts because sometimes when we're sitting back and we're being quiet, we're actually observing and we can pick up on things that other people miss as a leader, definitely.

David Hall [00:12:00]:

I think another myth is that introverts just want to be alone all the time. What do you think about that one?

Terrance Lee [00:12:07]:

Yeah, I totally agree because, yeah, I don't want to be alone all the time. I enjoy being around my friends or my family or my wife kids, but there are times I do want to be by myself. But what's interesting is there are extroverts that like being by themselves sometimes too. There's just a lot of misperceptions out there.

David Hall [00:12:33]:

Yeah, I know. Part of my success as a leader, I enjoy working with different teams and people, and I like a variety. The other day I had a day with no meetings and actually it was too long of a day by myself. But I do need my quiet time. So in your work role, how do you get the quiet time you need as a leader?

Terrance Lee [00:12:59]:

Yeah, so it's tough. It's tough. I'll be honest, my typical day is pretty hectic from the time I wake up and then work day gets started, a lot of meetings, and then when work is over, I'm typically doing things from a book sense as an author and then with the platform French revert leader. But what I do is every day I just set some time aside to sit to myself. And that time might be spent reading a book. It might be spent listening to a podcast that I enjoy. It might be spent just on the patio, just sitting on the patio with my thoughts. But I try to do that at least once a day. And again, when schedules are really tight, it may not be for a long period, even if it's 15 minutes, 30 minutes, that really helps to give me some peace and some balance.

David Hall [00:13:53]:

Yeah. And I think that's really important for introverts, I think it's a big strategy for success, is having some quiet time to think, to plan, to recharge and yeah, I try to catch mine the first thing in the morning. That's when I try. What do you think are some strengths that introverts have? Some strengths that introverted leaders can take advantage of?

Terrance Lee [00:14:22]:

Yeah. So a few, I think, again, going back to that gift of observation, I think that's a very key one. I think another one is just listening. And this kind of ties into observation in a way, but it's a little different as well, just the ability to listen and pick up on things, to pick up on the things that other people are missing. Because again, a lot of people like to talk. They don't like to listen. And when I say listen, I mean like actively listen. Some people can. You think they're listening, they're really not. They're really listening for their response. They're already thinking about what they're going to say back. I think an introverted leader can actively listen to people and understand their problem. Another one that I've gotten this said about me many times in my career, and I didn't know what it meant in the beginning, but now I understand it. And I've seen other very good leaders that are this way as well. But I think introverts are good at being calm under pressure. I think a lot of times somebody that's a little more wound up or maybe they're just going to say the first thing that comes to their mind. They're not really going to sit and think through things. A lot of times, those people, when the pressure hits, they fold, or when the pressure hits, it's just a know, and I've been told a lot of times, like, Terrence, you're so just things are going crazy right now and you're calm. And I know a lot of other introverted people, friends, family, that are the same way. They're able to be calm when things are going tough. So that's another huge strength as well, because I think in leadership, things are going to go wrong, things are not always going to go well, there's something that's going to break or go bad and how do you handle that when that happens? And I think introverts have a unique personality to where we're able to do that.

David Hall [00:16:19]:

Yeah, for sure. With the calm. Are you always calm on the inside, too? Does that make sense? Or sometimes you might appear calm on the outside, but you're not calm on the inside as an introvert?

Terrance Lee [00:16:36]:

Yeah, that's a good question.

David Hall [00:16:38]:

I know, we're all different.

Terrance Lee [00:16:40]:

Yeah, no, that's a good question. So I will say this, it's not like I just never have any worries. There are definitely times where I am concerned about how we're going to get through things at work. Right. Or even in my personal life. There are times where things happen and I am a little concerned, or I have worries about those things. But again, I try to maintain a level head about things. I try to slow myself down when I get those feelings of that. But no to your question. Yeah, there are definitely times where maybe on the outside, I hear that I have it all together and I don't like, inside, I'm actually thinking through things and I'm worried about them.

David Hall [00:17:27]:

Yeah. And I just ask because as an introverted leader, I've been through that, where the calm really does help. But sometimes you have to let people know what's going on inside because they can't see into our introverted minds. And there's been times where I have to say, yes, I am very concerned about this, because the calm wasn't doing what it needed to do. A lot of times it does, but again, sometimes you just have to be that's another strategy, I think, for introverted leadership, is letting people know what's going on because we don't always share everything.

Terrance Lee [00:18:01]:

Yeah, absolutely. That's true.

David Hall [00:18:04]:

So, again, half the population are introverts, roughly. And it's funny to me that people say, can introverts be great leaders? But my answer is, of course they can be amazing leaders. But how did you gain confidence as a leader? It was something that was kind of thrust upon you early. How did you get confident that you can do this with your introverted gifts and strengths?

Terrance Lee [00:18:34]:

Yeah, so it was a few things, to be honest. One big piece of it was just experience as I got in different roles and I started to step out of my comfort zone at different times. The more that I would do that, the more confident I would get. So I didn't like talking in front of people. It used to just terrify me. And I had a really big presentation early on in my career and I didn't want to do it, but when I did it and I had a great mentor that helped me through that. The presentation went well and I got a lot of praise for it. People said I did a great job and that was a huge confidence boost for me. And so I think that was kind of a catalyst. And then from there, the more that I would do that, the more that I would raise my hand in certain meetings and speak my mind. I did just start to get a confidence through that and then definitely my first kind of big leadership role, which was a technical lead of a large aircraft program, which again, I had doubts about if I could do it. And then once I successfully led that program and our team did an amazing job, delivered aircraft to the customer, it was just another confidence boost. So all these experiences and all of these things I think over time helped. But ultimately what helped probably bigger than any of that was me just embracing who I was. I think when I finally stopped looking at being an introvert, like a bad thing and I started to actually look at it like, no, this is me. This is who I am. And guess what? There are strengths about this. There are good things about being who I am. That was really the turning point because until I did that, none of the other stuff was going to matter. I mean, I had to really embrace who I am, embrace my strengths.

David Hall [00:20:24]:

Yeah, that's wonderful. That's it right there. Because I've had a lot of different epiphanies. We both have kids. My three kids are all different, raised by the same I have two extroverts, one introvert. I work with lots of different people, I have different family members. And it comes to us very naturally. It's not going to change, but you can learn to understand yourself. Of course you could always get better, but I think by learning to understand yourself. So you put it very well, embracing who you are, that does give you confidence. And again, you mentioned a public speech. It's like I have an extroverted friend that I have given presentations with and her approach to the speech is so much different than mine. I have to prepare a lot harder than she does. And not that she doesn't prepare, it just looks different. So I could be jealous or I could say, hey, this is who I am. This is what I need to do. That's what it's all about. I think part of also in being a leader is just really understanding the different personalities. The extroverted employee that we're leading the introverted employee. And how do you help your employees understand their strengths and also each other's strengths?

Terrance Lee [00:21:54]:

Yeah, so that's a good question. I think that so much of it is just having conversations. So one thing that I do when I'm talking to people on my team is I like to ask people, like, hey, so what do you like to do? What is a task or something that when you do it, it really fires you up, or it lights you up, you enjoy it. Right. And then on the flip side, what are the things you don't like to do? Because it's important to know what makes people tick, I feel like. And then once you know that, then they can start to lean into, okay, well, I like to do this thing well. Yeah. Maybe this is more where I should be, or this is more my strength. So I think a lot of it with me is I just have open conversations. I'm really big about people finding their purpose, finding their passion. Like, what is that one thing that they're good at or they could live for? Right. And so I'm all about trying to pull that out of people, and that's how I try to do it. Just through having open conversations?

David Hall [00:22:57]:

Yeah. That's awesome, because that's the key. If we can work in our passion most of the time, there's always going to be some things we don't want to do. But if the majority of our time could be spent on our passion, as you put it, that's great. Sounds like you're a great person to work for.

Terrance Lee [00:23:15]:

I sure hope so.

David Hall [00:23:16]:

Yeah. So tell us about your book. What are you excited about? I know there's ten different principles. Ten chapters, right?

Terrance Lee [00:23:25]:

Yes, that's correct.

David Hall [00:23:28]:

And it comes out October 29.

Terrance Lee [00:23:31]:

Yeah, it comes out on October 29. So it's quiet voice fearless leader ten principles for introverts to awaken the leader inside. And I'm just really excited because the whole goal for the book was I didn't think for a long time that I could be a leader. I didn't think that I had what it took. I thought I had to be one of the loudest voices in the room in order to do that. And what I realized in my journey of writing this book is that I know there are so many other people out there like me that probably feel that same way now. And so the whole goal for this book is for anyone that picks it up and reads it, after they read this book, they're going to have a completely different feeling about their introversion and feeling about if they can lead. There's an action plan at the end of every chapter. And the reason I did that is because I don't just want people to read the book and think, oh, that was nice, and kind of put it to the side. Right. I want people to really live out and work through the action plans of every chapter and really to grow. That's really the goal of it. So, yeah, I'm very excited about it. I feel like it'll definitely help introverts out there and it'll also help people that are extroverted to understand the introvert mind, too. I wrote it for that side as well. So, yeah, very looking forward to it.

David Hall [00:24:52]:

Yeah, absolutely. That's definitely the material that we put out on introversion with my book, my Sister is an Extrovert and she told me that exact thing and I've heard that from others too. It really helped me understand other people in my life that are introverts. And so that could be a key. And yeah, like I said, I read the first chapter that you put out already, and the action plans are so important because it's not about just learning more. It's about how can I use this material to really make a change, to embrace who I am and to find some strategies that will help me be most successful with my gifts. And also, it's not just your strengths, it's honoring those needs that you have, that time that you need to be alone, for example, and understanding that recharge that you need to do, and other things. What's a couple of strategies that are in your book that maybe you haven't talked about yet so far.

Terrance Lee [00:25:59]:

Yeah, there's a lot. So the first chapter is about value, and that's all about just how introverts can add value. So we go into how to establish presence, how to focus on your unique skill. That's another thing that's very key. We talk about how to effectively challenge ideas. So how do you maintain your introversion but also learn to push back on people and have disagreements? Having disagreements is not an unhealthy thing, as long as it's done the right way. And so we talk about that. We talk about public speaking. That's one of the longest chapters because that was one of the biggest struggles for me. So I really wanted to talk about that. So we get into how to get over nervousness when you're about to speak. What are some ways to combat that. And one of the things in that chapter too, that I talk about is that you may always feel nervous when you're going to speak in front of people. And that's okay. It's not necessarily that I'm just going to snap my fingers and get over that one day. It's actually that no, it's just when you're feeling that here are some things you can do. Right. So that's really the way that I came at it in terms of that. So, yeah, public speaking, adding value, how to challenge, how to make difficult decisions, that's another big one. I have a chapter all about making tough decisions as a leader. So yeah, that's just a few things, but there's a lot more.

David Hall [00:27:33]:

Very nice. Do you think that introverts when making tough decisions are you able to make tough decisions on the spot every time? Or does sometimes you need some time to think?

Terrance Lee [00:27:49]:

Yeah. So it's interesting because there are different scenarios. Sometimes I'm in scenarios in my current role as a program manager where a decision has me made quickly. There are other times where I have a little time to think through that decision, kind of table it right, and then come back later. So I've had to make decisions on the spot before. I will say that I definitely prefer to be able to think. But one thing when it's a quick decision that I always do is I don't make those decisions alone. So I've learned how to when there is a difficult decision and maybe there's not a lot of time to make it, I ask questions to people that I know can help me make that decision right. So I try to always lean on the advice of different experts, different people I work with in certain areas, because I want to hear feedback and I want to hear different perspectives. And then once I have that and I'm armed with that information, then I can make a decision. Right. And so even if it's a short term decision, I have to make it by the end of the day or on the spot kind of thing. I try to not do that in a vacuum. I try to make sure I have input from other people.

David Hall [00:29:04]:

Yeah, very good. Sometimes I think it just depends on the situation. Like you said, sometimes we're going to make quick decisions, sometimes we have to. But sometimes I know some of my best ideas have just come with time, just letting something sit in the back of my head and coming up with a good strategy. And sometimes I need to ask for that time, hey, give me a little bit of time to think about that. And I think that that's been a success point for me as an introvert. But sometimes you have to make a quick decision, and sometimes you've already given it so much thought or you have the experience that you don't need the time, but sometimes you need to ask for it. I think that's an important thing to know as people are getting to know us as introverted leaders. This last year and a half has been kind of crazy. I know I've spent a lot of time working from home as an introverted leader. How is it to manage people remotely? And do you have any tips for that?

Terrance Lee [00:30:07]:

Yeah, so managing remotely has definitely in the beginning, it was a huge challenge. It was a challenge. I will say that on one end, having a more introverted nature, not being in kind of the cubicle environment where there's all these people and everything. In the beginning, I was kind of excited to work from home. I wasn't used to working from home and being able to just be in. My home and get things done that way. But I will say that managing people, it was difficult in the beginning because I think that I'm very big on again observation. So if I'm in a room, I'm watching people's body language, I'm watching the discussions and the things in ways they're going on. And there's certain things that on a zoom call, it's just harder to do when it's remote versus when it's in person. Right. And so one thing that I'll say that I do is I try to be very engaged with my people, probably even more so than I was when we were on site working together. So in remote environments, as a leader, I have to reach out to people directly more often and ask how they're doing, see how things are doing, ask for their feedback, ask their thoughts when there are different decisions going on. Right. I think that the more engaged that I am, I'm able to actually keep a pulse on my people and things that are going on, and you keep that connection that way. So I think that managers managing in this environment, it's hard to have a successful team if you just kind of sit back because you're not around them. Right. We're all remote, so I think you have to have those touch points more regularly and have those conversations to know how they're doing.

David Hall [00:31:52]:

Yeah, absolutely. I know zoom can be hard because I was just in a meeting the other day and everybody had their mics off and I'm presenting and you don't get the same kind of feedback that you normally would in an in person meeting. Yeah, absolutely. And you said something else. Yeah, it's like people think that, of course, introverts just love being working from home all the time, and I think it's mixed. I know for me, my wife always worked from home, and then during the 2020, I had three kids, two were doing online school. There was five of us, and it got pretty crazy here, so I had a lot of interruptions at home, and so it wasn't just like, just quiet all the time. So, I mean, it was definitely something to navigate through, and now it's kind of mixed for me, but there's good and bad. I think it also just kind of showed us, hey, it allowed us to step back and see, what do I really need and what do I miss? And all that kind of good stuff. Definitely. We just got to keep the conversation going about what introverts really are and what myths are out there.

Terrance Lee [00:33:09]:

Yeah, totally agree.

David Hall [00:33:12]:

All right, so anything else you want us to know about yourself or your book that we didn't talk about so far?

Terrance Lee [00:33:19]:

Yeah, definitely. So for people that want to pick up the first chapter for free, that's available on my website@quietvoicecarelessleader.com, so people can go there to get the first chapter. And again, as you mentioned, the book will be available in paperback and ebook on October 29. So definitely just looking forward to that and looking forward to hopefully helping as many people as possible. And then if anyone wants to follow me on social media, on Instagram and Facebook, I'm at the Introvert Leader, and on Twitter, I'm at Introvert Lead. So, yeah, just looking forward to connecting with folks and going from there.

David Hall [00:33:58]:

Sounds great. I know I follow Terrence on Instagram. He puts out some great content. I'm looking forward to the book. Keep up your great work, Terrence, because, yes, introverts can be amazing leaders. You just got to get to know yourself, and you got to embrace who you are and help other people to understand your strengths and your needs. So thank you very much, Terrence. It's been a pleasure speaking with you.

Terrance Lee [00:34:23]:

Yeah, this has been a lot of fun. It's been a pleasure on my end as well. And, yeah, I really appreciate you having me on the podcast.

David Hall [00:34:31]:

All right, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to further connecting with you. Check out the website Quietandstrong.com. Email me at david@quietandstrong.com. Comment on social media post. Send me topics or guests you'd like to see on the show. There's so many great things about being an introvert, and we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.