Ep. 264 - Confronting Self-Doubt: How Introverts Thrive with guest Dr. Albert Bramante

Have you ever wondered how introverts excel in fields that require putting themselves in the spotlight—like acting and performing? In this episode of the Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with guest Dr. Albert Bramante, a seasoned talent agent and performance psychologist, to explore the surprising strengths introverts bring to the stage and the creative world.

Listeners will learn why self-doubt and self-sabotage often stand in the way of success—and how introverts can reframe challenges as stepping stones, not setbacks. Dr. Albert Bramante shares actionable strategies to build self-esteem, boost self-efficacy, and overcome common roadblocks like the fear of rejection, perfectionism, and the often-overlooked fear of success. Discover the truth behind the myth that actors must be extroverts, and hear stories of how introverts harness their creativity, depth, and imagination to thrive in performing arts and beyond.

Whether you’re an introvert looking to embrace your strengths, or someone curious about the psychology of high performers, this episode offers real-world advice and inspiration to help you confront self-doubt, master your mindset, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/264

Dr. Albert Bramante is a talent agent, performance psychologist, and mindset expert who has spent over 20 years helping high performers—both in the entertainment industry and beyond—conquer their mental roadblocks. With a Ph.D. in Psychology and certifications in hypnosis and NLP, he bridges the gap between talent, business success, and the psychology of peak performance

Connect with Albert:

Website | Instagram | LinkedIn

Get Dr. Bramante’s book Rise Above the Script

Transcript

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:00:00]:
even if you get a setback, because most of the time, you know, when, when someone has a— you know, a parlo— or low self-esteem, anytime that they do something and they don't, they don't get the result they want, or it's a, it's a blow. But what I would say is like, no, it's, it shouldn't be looked at as a blow. It should be looked at as a stepping stone for success. You're getting— you're one step closer to where you were last time. So you're actually failing forward, you know, even though you may fail, it's feedback, it's giving you good information. You know, most of the inventors who may have invented important things may have failed hundreds of times with prototypes. And oftentimes when they're, you know, asked, well, why did, you know, why did you fail? They said, I didn't fail, I just keep— it was one step closer.

David Hall [00:00:52]:
Hello and welcome to episode 264 of the Quiet Is Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix. But to be embraced. Normally we'll air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or a rating.

David Hall [00:01:26]:
That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Dr. Albert Brumonte is a talent agent, performance psychologist, and mindset expert who has spent over 20 years helping high performers, both in the entertainment industry and beyond, conquer their mental roadblocks. With a PhD in psychology and certifications in hypnosis and NLP, he bridges the gap between talent, business success, and the psychology of peak performance.

David Hall [00:01:59]:
All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Albert. Albert, so good to have you on today.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:02:04]:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here, David.

David Hall [00:02:08]:
So we're going to get into the work that you do, the book that you've written, Tell us a little bit about yourself first, uh, your journey and to the work that you're doing now.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:02:17]:
So the book— the journey kind of started when I was a child. I was always very curious about the human mind and the brain. And I think, you know, going with the, the theme of, of the podcast here, I was kind of the only— sort of being the youngest child of older brothers and sisters and considering that there was a larger age difference, you know, like 8 years, I was kind of raised as the only child. And add that alone to the fact that I didn't really identify with my siblings. You know, my family, my brothers and my father were all into sports. They lived, bred, you know, sports. And for me, I had no interest. I had no ability.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:03:04]:
I couldn't, you know, do it, obviously. But I had no interest either, both playing it, even, even watching it as a spectator. It really had no interest in me. So I think what I did down the line was I started turning to books. And I spent a lot of time in the library growing up, you know, as a child and teenager. So I was reading a lot of books. Even by the time I was in high school, an avid reader. And I was reading sort of unconventional titles for a teenager, typically, such as, you know, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:03:39]:
I was reading, you know, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And then it was also— one of my favorite books at that time was Feeling Good by David Burns, which was a primer on, uh, cognitive behavioral therapy. So, you know, not your typical teenager reading material. Mm-hmm. But I, I didn't have an outlet. Like, now I was involved in high school. I was involved in a lot of organizations, community service organization, service, uh, debate club, drama club. And what really interested me was a drama club.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:04:11]:
That's what really interested me was, you know, being involved in the drama club and being around actors specifically. That was what interested me. Was being around act— actors. And, and at that time, I really didn't know it. I didn't pay any mind to it. It was just more of an interest of mine. And then in college, I did take some acting classes to kind of get out of my shell a little bit, and it was fun. And that's all I looked at at the time.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:04:38]:
This is fun, you know. And I put it aside because I was still really determined to be a psychologist and to be a college professor. That's— was my main aspirations from my sophomore year in high school all the way, you know, pretty much until I had my master's degree. Now, when I had my master's degree, I found myself kind of on the ground working with 9/11. This is right— because it's the same year that 9/11 had occurred, I had received my master's. And so some of my previous contacts and other internships had said, "We need your help." So I, I kind of hit the ground running. I was helping doing some crisis prevention work. I also worked for, you know, crisis hotline in New York City, providing entitlement for 9/11 survivors and families.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:05:27]:
So that was like primarily what I did. And in this time, I met some actors, I met some filmmakers, I met some directors. They asked me to audition for a movie because I did have an interest in acting, okay? And I liked it. I didn't— I didn't get that role specifically, but I've done other independent films, I've done some commercials. But kind of soon into the process, I realized that acting wasn't in my blood. I like being around actors and theater people, but it wasn't, you know, something I wanted to do. But I still wanted to be in this environment. I think for me, and looking back at it and kind of being transparent, I think I felt seen and heard.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:06:13]:
With these types of people. And I think that's kind of sort of why I identify so much with theater and, and actors. I felt kind of heard and seen and understood and accepted. And I didn't quite feel that because I did, you know, hang out with a lot of psychologists and other professors at different conferences, and I really didn't feel as comfortable. I could certainly hold my own, and I could make discussions and symposiums, but for me it wasn't fun. Like, I didn't enjoy it, and I didn't feel really comfortable in this type— in these types of environment. I still don't. But it wasn't until that experience when I was, you know, dabbling in kind of in acting that I realized I liked working with actors.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:06:55]:
And so I shifted my gear to supporting actors, and that became being a talent agent or talent ad— you know, really a talent advocate. So that was sort of like my area of focus that became there. So that's when I became an agent in 2005— for late 2004, early 2005. And so then I just started working as an agent, and that's how my journey started. Now, my journey into self-sabotage and my— which is what it— where I'm kind of like passionate about now. When I was starting my agency, I kept running into issues with actors that were engaging in self-sabotaging behaviors. And that— what I mean by that is they, they would shoot themselves in the foot getting so close to a goal but never would reach it. And I couldn't really explain why that was happening, but it was just something that I, I just, I couldn't figure out what was really happening here.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:07:56]:
So I decided to do my dissertation on self-defeating behavior in performing artists. And that kind of required me to kind of do a deep dive into studying the, the psyche of the actor, the, the profile, the archetype of the actor. And so that's how that started, and that's kind of like led me to where I am now. And the doctoral dissertation was a great way to kind of merge my— both of my worlds and passions together, psychology with, with, you know, talent, you know, representation, working with actors. So that was one of the good ways I found myself to really bring everything together.

David Hall [00:08:39]:
Yeah, so you, you had had a desire to get your doctorate in psychology, correct? And, and then you achieved that, but you went and, uh, you've been a talent agent for quite some time, right?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:08:54]:
Absolutely. Yeah, I've been doing this for Several years, you know, 21 years, you know, I've been a talent agent.

David Hall [00:09:01]:
And what drove you to still complete your, your goal of getting the doctorate in psychology? What?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:09:10]:
Well, it was always something I wanted to do, you know, like, like even since I was a sophomore in high school, my goal was to be a PhD. Now, in order to— I, at that time, I wasn't too sure what I wanted to do initially. I was going to be a clinical psychologist. That was like my one track. Focus for many years. And in order to do that, you have to have a PhD. That's required, you know, if you want to be considered a psychologist, you know, you needed a doctorate of, you know, of any, any form, but you need a doctorate. And, you know, and like I said, and I wanted to be a full-time college professor, also another thing you needed a PhD for.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:09:49]:
So that was like my goal. Now Being that I was this thinker type and always a thinker and always a kind of like the bookworm, you know, grad school was easy for me. It wasn't difficult. What was difficult for me and for most PhDs that I've talked to is there is the final stretch dissertation. That's like the bane of every, you know, PhD, a thorn if you want to say, or the bane of every PhD's you know, existence. And, and that was mine too. I didn't realize this. I thought it was just going to be fun.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:10:23]:
It was a topic I liked, but it was a, you know, something I've never done. It was, you know, uh, and, you know, it was worth it 100%. But, and that's what I think distinguishes why— what, what makes a PhD a distinguishable degree, because of the amount of hard work that's required to do the dissertation. The coursework was a cakewalk for me. It was the actual time to do the dissertation that was a challenge for me. Plus, I had a lot I was juggling at the time. And so I was a psychology professor, and at that time I had— was hired full-time where I was teaching at another college. So I, I had a full-time professorship.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:11:06]:
I was runnin' a runnin' a talent agent and you know, obviously complete a PhD, not an easy task to do. And kind of like, I, I poured my heart and soul to teaching because I wanted to make a good impression and, you know, it was my full-time job. Now, I was an adjunct for many years prior to becoming full-time, but I can tell you one thing, that there's a huge difference between being an adjunct and a full-time professor. No, it— there's more classes, of course, but then there's also a lot of projects that you have to be a part of to service the college and, you know, and the community. So there was a lot of my time was being on committees and, and community service projects for the college. So that took up a lot of my time, which is not what I should be doing if I want to get a PhD, you know, like that, or run a business, you know. So I would have to say for those— that, that 4 or 5 year period that I was like really immersed in a full-time job, the talent agency kind of just was just a, a thing. And my PhD just kind of went, you know, out in, in the back burner.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:12:20]:
The unfortunate thing is I was still paying student— you know, getting financial aid, so my student loan debt was accumulating through the roof. Now I found myself through some luck. Well, I wouldn't— I say luck now. It didn't feel lucky at the time, but the job had ended the full-time position. They— I wasn't granted tenure. A number of us weren't. So I found myself without a job, you know, full-time job, which is a bit of adjustment, but it was also at a time I felt that was, that was extremely necessary for me because now I can focus on my dissertation, finish the PhD, but also now devote my time into building the agency up. And that's exactly what I did.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:13:04]:
And once I kind of like licked my wounds from being let, let go, it was— I was not in a very good place for a little while after that, you know, when I was between the time of like noting I was going to be ending and then actually ending. I was not in a very good place emotionally because I got comfortable and I assumed I was going to be here for the rest of my life. But that, that was a necessary change I needed because I fo— I was able to complete my PhD. And I was able to build my company up. So, but I— did I think about quitting? A few times I did, you know, that I thought, well, you know, this PhD thing ain't worth it. And I'm really— every day I'm glad I didn't, you know. But at that time, it just seemed like, you know, it started to seem like a viable option. But, you know, what, what stopped me was two things.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:13:54]:
Number one, I still would have to pay the student loan debt back, so, you know, I might as well get something out of it now. And secondly, you know, we do— we can get a degree title which is called an ABD, which is All But Dissertation, which kind of is like a consolation prize. I feel like, you know, this is just a— it wouldn't have meant anything, you know, that's not a degree, that's not a title. So I was like, okay, you know what, let me just do this. Get it over with. Now I have the time. And I did. And then 2015, the biggest— I would say in 2015, the biggest achievement was walking across the stage, being called doctor for the first time, and then getting robed, you know, by, you know, the council, the university council.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:14:41]:
That was an amazing thing. I still have it on videotape. It was an amazing experience. So, and, and one of the greatest achievements of my life. So, and, you know, again, I'm thankful every day I've done it.

David Hall [00:14:53]:
You opted— it felt the right thing for you, felt like to be, you know, do the talent agency. What made you decide to be an entrepreneur?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:15:03]:
I always wanted to be an entrepreneur, I guess you could, you can say that. I think sort of like I enjoyed kind of like being on my own and I like being on my own. I mean, there, yeah, there are some disadvantages. Sometimes it can be lonely a bit. At times, and there's other expenses too, because you got— I have all those overhead that I'm solely responsible for. Now, I could have easily had applied to be an agency at someplace else, you know, agent at someplace else, that there's a ton of, you know, established— other established agencies out there that I could easily have worked for. I think for me, the main reason to become an entrepreneur is that while I work well with people, I don't really like working for people. And I think sometimes, especially if somebody's an authorit— if someone becomes an authoritarian, I get really uncomfortable and I, I don't like it.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:15:58]:
And, and so that's sort of like one of the reasons why I think I, I shied away from working for someplace else. Now, yes, even though I'm teaching, I was working for somebody else. At least the colleges I've taught at were very laid back. So as long as I was, you know, showing up and, and, and teaching, they really kind of let me do what I want, you know, which is what I really value. And I don't think I would have gotten that if I worked for some— somebody else. May— I might have made a little more money, I might have had a little bit more security, but I know I wouldn't have been happy. And I like to be resourceful, which Some employers may find that a little bit threatened, not too, not too happy with, because I like to think outside the box, and which might not have been favorable by some employee— employers. So I know that about me, but I think that's the main reason I want to be an entrepreneur, is just to do something and be on my own.

David Hall [00:17:00]:
Yeah, that makes sense. So You work with a lot of introverts that are actors. And on this show, we talk about— we bust myths and we talk about strengths. What's a myth that you want to bust about introverts being actors?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:17:18]:
Well, I think a lot of people get shocked when they find that most actors are introverts. I would say a good number of them. I would say probably much more introverted than extroverted. I, I would say a good number of them.

David Hall [00:17:30]:
I've heard that before.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:17:31]:
It's cool. Yeah, a lot of it is the fact that they're performing for the art. So they're— when they're up on stage or when in front of a camera, they're not doing it for the audience. They're not even paying attention to the audience. They're in their world playing a character, being creative. So they're in their, in their mind and in their body. When they're performing. So they're not doing it for the applause, you know.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:17:59]:
I've even had a lot of actors who tell me, you know, because of the lights and everything when on stage, that they even forget the audience is there because they're so into, like, the other character and, you know, and, and just having that, that conversation, that dialogue, that they're just— they don't even focus on the world around them. And I've even heard this a lot with musicians too. And, you know, I remember one of— one podcast I was talking to was also a DJ and musician DJ, and very— and he's even a self-proclaimed introvert. And the one thing he says is like, you know, a lot of times he may be on stage, they may be acting crazy and, and, you know, jumping around and yelling and, you know, because it was heavy metal, but it's not for the audience, it's their own artistic expression. And when it's performative, there's a character that you're playing, so you're not yourself, you know, you're a character at the moment. And oftentimes what a lot of people are surprised or even shocked is how the actor and the character that they're playing are completely different. You know, I remember one time I saw a show one of my clients was in, and there was this other actor You know, he would play the— for a typical fraternity bro, very brash, very loud, and very, you know, obnoxious type character. But when I talked, you know, I walked up to him on the stage and was, you know, and a bunch of people were telling me how great he was doing, he looked genuinely uncomfortable and he was very soft-spoken.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:19:33]:
He's actually even blushing even, and very calm. And some people were very— yeah, they were like shocked. They're like I don't understand. I'm like, no, that makes perfect sense because he was playing a character that's not him, you know. And a lot of artists are like that. Like, a lot of— a lot of actors I know don't even like going to like clubs and bars or happy, you know, hours. They don't like that, you know. And, you know, you may think that for a myth, like, oh well, how can you not like that? You're— you're always in front of people and all that.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:20:03]:
But no, it's not about the people. It's about the own inner world. And a good number of them are introverts. You know, a good number of actors are introverted. And, and that's, that's, you know, I think a lot of times we get confused, society, with introverts and extroverts and that nature. Because a lot of people think that introverts are like, you know, typically antisocial or anti— thing. And that's probably the biggest myth out there. Yeah, with introverts that they're antisocial.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:20:36]:
They're not. They, they enjoy people just as much as extroverts do. It's just the amount and the context is different.

David Hall [00:20:45]:
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And yeah, there are antisocial people, but it's— introvert is not the right word, you know, or even shy is not the right word because I know shy extroverts, you know, introvert. It means we're drawn inward. More often than not, you know. What's a strength that introverts bring to acting?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:21:05]:
Well, I, I— well, one thing, I, a lot of introverts are right-brained, which means that they're more creative. And so they may bring a more intense intensity to a character and depth to a character, imagination to a character. Some of them are great writers and I, I think that's a strong strength that they bring is the creativity aspect of it. And, and that's important too, because what's, what's also important to be successful as an actor— yes, I mean, you're reading a script that somebody else has written, but there's a lot of depth that you can bring to a character even though the dialogue may be sketch etched the same. But you can bring a dimension and creativity to the actor., you know, to the role— that the actor can bring to that role, rather. And that is a strength because it's like there's a complexity that can be added, extra layers that— well, I didn't think of that. Well, that's a great, great tool.

David Hall [00:22:11]:
Yeah. So let's get into your book, Albert. It's called Rise Above the Script: Confronting Self-Doubt and Mastering Self-Sabotage for Performing Artists. What caused you to write that book and tell us what it's about?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:22:24]:
So, well, thanks, I'm glad you asked. So the book was kind of a, an extension of my doctoral dissertation and the, the foundation. So the one— I was first starting as, as an agent. I mean, we still see self-sabotage now, but I was running into this a lot where a lot of actors would say they wanted to work, they, they would claim they wanted to audition, but anytime an audition came up, they would sort of shy away from it or run away from the project, you know. And, and I couldn't understand why that was happening. I don't know why that was happening. And at that time— at that time I didn't. Now it makes sense.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:23:08]:
But there, it— there was a lot of fear that was happening. So a lot of times, one of the things what a lot of industry people couldn't understand— what I mean, industry people behind the scenes you know, casting directors, producers, directors. The one thing that we— no one could really understand, well, why were some of the actors being their own worst enemy? You know, the field is already competitive enough, and it's like these— some of the— some of these behaviors are really taking the actors out of the running, you know, before they even began. And so I think that was like something that was really you know, concerning me. And so when it came time to, to draft the topic for dissertation, the advice that we've got— received in grad school was to pick a topic or answer a question, like frame it as a question that you're really passionate about. And my passion was, why are these— what's up with these actors? Why are they self-sabotaging? And, and so that's, that's what— that's what was kind of like the beginning. I could say. And then when I, you know, received my PhD, I did an actual study with actors and, and, and different, you know, psychological tests that I'd given them.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:24:20]:
And so I became very interested in that. And when I put— when I published my PhD in the, you know, in the databases, my advisors had, you know, encouraged me and saying, hey, you should publish this. This is groundbreaking because there was not a lot of work written, and at least professionally and scholarly, about actors, you know, in this area of self-sabotage. And then, you know, I, I'll be honest with you, I dropped the ball. I let it go for several years. And it wasn't until, you know, I started thinking around 2020, 2021, really need to write this book because everyone kept asking me, you should tell me, you should write a book, you should write a book, you should write a book, because I talk about this a lot. I was like, now— and I started, and I was, you know, it was interesting because I was writing, I was, I was living a lot of the personally— I just put the themes I was writing about my book, gonna write about like this, the imposter syndrome and, and self-doubt, because I was thinking like, oh well, you know, these people are not going to want to read my book, and you know, vice versa, no one's gonna understand me, yada yada, and, and it just went on to— I couldn't figure, figure out a plan yet. And then it wasn't until like 2023 when I said, you know what, I've got to do this.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:25:38]:
I'm sitting, you know, on, you know, something I should be doing. And so that was kind of like where I wrote the book. And I was like, I really want to make this readable for actors and for other people. So I took the outline that I did for my dissertation and just, you know, I took some of the research, you know, added some newer studies in there and made it in a readable format. Because the thing about doctoral dissertations, they're great. I'm really happy with the work I've done, but nobody's going to read it unless they're a PhD in psychology. It's just, it's too dry and too boring, to be honest with you, because, you know, my fat— because what they did at my university, they bound it, they printed it. So it's like a book.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:26:23]:
And I remember my family and friends were like, oh, I'm gonna read your, your— read your dissertation. And I would hand them the book and they're like, after 2 pages they're putting it down. Like, I get it. Because it's, it's heavy. So I wanted to make something that— because I felt like what I had to say was important, but I wanted to make it in a, in a format that's interesting and user-friendly. So that's sort of like where I did that in a sense.

David Hall [00:26:51]:
All right, well, let's get into the concepts.

David Hall [00:26:53]:
You talk about self-esteem,

David Hall [00:26:56]:
self-belief, self-worth. What's the difference between all these?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:27:00]:
Well, self-esteem is a global, you know, aspect of, you know, evaluation of yourself. And then the other thing, part 2 of my book is on self-efficacy. And self-efficacy is your belief in— it's more specific, like your belief in your ability to, to do something. So it would be like my thing, if I had self-efficacy, a good degree of self-efficacy would be, for me being a professor, would be, I believe I can be a good professor. I believe I can be an effective professor, or I can be a good agent, or I'm a good agent. If I don't have that, you know, if I don't believe I can be a good— good, that's not gonna help me out in any way. So being an actor, you have to believe in yourself, you know, and believe in your ability and believe that the industry is fair going into it, because if you don't, automatically your mindset is going to be ruined in, in a sense, or your mindset is going to be affected by that. So, and then self-esteem again is more global, like in general how you feel about yourself, and it's an evaluation of yourself.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:28:04]:
And it's so important because, well, if you have low self-esteem, obviously you're not gonna be being that proactive. You're going to start using negative self-talk and talking yourself out of important opportunities. And then I make a distinction in my book. There's another problem with self-esteem, and that's when it's fragile but high, like toxic self-esteem, where people think— that's where the arrogance and the pompousness and the hotheaded and, and comes in, and narcissistic comes in, grandio— grandiosity. And the reason why that I call that fragile is because it's, it's easily broken. Because if you take people that are very arrogant or pompous or whatever you want to call that, and you challenge their, you know, whatever they're, they're arrogant about, they get very angry or they get very distraught, upset, and like kind of like thrown in an array. Now, if you're generally confident, somebody challenges you, you're going to almost walk welcome that challenge and point out, you know, whatever it is that they're challenging about and have an honest conversation. But if you are, you know, the type of person that is, you know, has this fragile high self— you know, toxic high self-esteem— you're gonna get very angry with anybody who challenges you.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:29:25]:
You're gonna not listen to anybody who challenges you. Therefore, if somebody has any important information or important feedback to help you improve, coach you, whatever that is, you're not going to implement, and therefore you're more likely to self-sabotage. So that was like really what I go over in Parts 1 and 2 of my book. And then Part 3, I talk about personality factors and the Big Five, the Five Factor Model, in a sense. So I talk a little bit about that, and then I told— I, I end the book And the, the ending section is on fear of success and fears in general. And part of that is your rela— your relationships as well as your relationship with money. Cuz I have a whole chapter on like, you know, your, what's your relationship with money? Cuz I feel like that's important, you know, really in this, that needs to be met in this type of conversation. So that's pretty much the book in a nutshell.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:30:19]:
And I include in every chapter, I have a lot of research. Studies that back, you know, what, what I'm saying up, personal examples, and even some exercises to kind of like, or tips to kind of get you out of that role, you know, out of that mindset.

David Hall [00:30:36]:
Yeah, let's go back to when someone's lacking self-esteem or self-efficacy. How do they gain confidence? How do they, how do they raise their self-esteem or realize, yes, I can do this?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:30:50]:
Yeah, um, well, the one thing— there's a couple of things that, that are important. So the first thing to do is, you know, to— obviously we need to change your— the way you communicate yourself, the language you use about yourself, and that's the first thing. But also what we need to do is get you to start taking action on doing things. So You know, small actions, you know, just doing something different, stepping outside your comfort zone. And then the other thing you want to do is be mindful of the— of your social circle. Like, who are you hanging out with the most? And do an audit of that, because if you're hanging out with people that are critical, judging, and, you know, just pessimistic, they're going to hold you down. But what you need to do is hang out with people that are going to be— that are going to build you up.

David Hall [00:31:46]:
Yeah. And how do we— what's some examples of the internal dialogue we should have when we're, you know, building our self-esteem?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:31:54]:
Well, the first thing is to challenge— reframe every— reframing is important. Reframing is a tool that's often referred to in cognitive behavioral therapy, and that's changing, you know, the outlook or changing a thought. So instead of saying you know, I can't, it's more of like, I, you know, this is something I need to work on. Or instead of saying the word try, use the word will, you know, I— so saying I'll try my best, I will do my best, you know, or reframing even failure as feedback. Like, even if you get a setback, because most of the time, you know, when, when someone has a, you know, subpar low or low self-esteem, anytime that they do something, they don't, they don't get the result they want.— or expect it's a, it's a blow. But what I would say is like, no, it shouldn't be looked at as a blow. It should be looked at as a stepping stone for success. You're getting— you're one step closer to where you were last time.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:33:01]:
So you're actually failing forward, you know, even though you may fail, it's feedback. It's giving you good information. You know, most of the inventors, you know, who may have invented, you know, important things may have failed hundreds of times with prototypes. And oftentimes when they're, you know, asked, well, why did, you know, why did you fail? They say, I didn't fail, I just keep— it was one step closer. It was like, I was like, I think one, I think it was either Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson had said you know, after one of their inventions that it took, you know, because someone's at— you know, I asked him one time, you know, it took you several hundred attempts, you know, what did you do wrong? And he said, no, that was just several hundred clues to get to where I was going, right? Right. And I think that's where we have to start looking at, like, okay, you didn't get this, or you didn't get the job, or you didn't get the project, or this didn't go as planned. It's not, it's not the end of the world. It's actually a good thing.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:34:03]:
Because now it gives you information and feedback that you can do to work

David Hall [00:34:09]:
harder the next time. You probably deal with this quite a bit with the clients you work with, you know, they probably can sometimes get feeling dejected, like they didn't get this part, or they didn't get this project, like you're saying. What's a good way to reframe that when it's rejection?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:34:27]:
Well, I would say, you know, one of the statements that I go by, and I read this in a, in a book a long time ago, I don't know, it was, it was like a, just a quote in the book, so I can't really tell you who it came from, but it was like, there's no such thing as rejection. It's just a simple reminder that your services are not needed today. So you didn't get that role. Okay. You didn't get the role. That's all this is. You're not right for that role. Let's try out.

David Hall [00:34:56]:
Tomorrow.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:34:56]:
And in this case, what that really means is that no does not mean never. It's just not, not today, not for this role. And I think sometimes we internalize when we get that no, like, oh, this is a disaster. I knew I was going to be a failure at everything. And it's like, no, it just means not right now. That's all this means. That's all that no is, is just not right now.

David Hall [00:35:21]:
Not today. How, how do actors and other performers overcome stage fright?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:35:26]:
Also, I'm going to kind of use the, the example reframing stage fright.

David Hall [00:35:31]:
Yeah.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:35:31]:
So most of the time when— what, what happens very often with emotion of fear is you get the physiological reactions, the butterflies in the stomach, the elevated heart rate, maybe the, you know, elevation of body temperature. The sweating, and you start to think, oh, this is scary, I'm scared, that means I'm scared. And all of a sudden now you become fearful. What if we switched it and looked at it like you're excited? Because almost the same exact stuff happens when you're excited. So it's like, no, you're not nervous, you're just excited to perform the role. Because I think it's unrealistic to tell someone that they're going to have no sensations when you're going up on stage. I think that's almost impossible to tell somebody that. And I, yeah, it was interesting because I remember one of my first classes in college was speech.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:36:23]:
One of my first communication classes was speech class. And I remember even the first two chapters of the book were pretty much saying, if you're looking to, to get rid of stage fright completely, you're re— you're, you know, you're, you're preaching to the choir. This is impossible. And Even the be— the best orators, they were saying at that time, you know, have the, the butterflies every time they go up to give a speech. They just know how to effectively handle it. So that's— it's not necessarily like getting rid of stage fright, but working with stage fright by transforming it to excitement. So you're feeling this way because you can't wait to get on stage. You're feeling this way because you look forward to getting on stage.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:37:08]:
And that's helped me out too when I just looked at it that way, because it— then, then you can actually use that adrenaline that you're building up initially to make you even a better—

David Hall [00:37:22]:
do a better job performing. Does reframing also apply

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:37:30]:
to perfectionism? Yes. Um, you know, a lot of times perfectionism is gonna hold us back cuz One of the statements I like that I really love there, just kind of— this is like a cliché statement, but not being not ready is a lie that you're telling yourself. Because the thing about perfection is, is a lie. It's a myth. There's no such thing as perfect. So if you keep waiting for the perfect moment, it'll never happen. So, you know, not ready is a lie. So when people say, like, I'm not ready to do this yet, I'm not ready to go out and, and do this, I'm not ready to launch his business.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:38:04]:
That could be a lie most of the time because, and usually when I talk to people, I'm like, well, what do you feel? Well, I need to learn this and that. I'm like, well, why can't you launch or do whatever it is you want to do and still learn at the same time? Because that's the whole thing. Because if we sit there and we wait for the perfect moment, we may, you know, we've been waiting for a long time. And the same, it's also linked to procrastination. Why we procrastinate, because now is not the right time. I need to be perfect. And a lot of times what you don't realize, for a lot of people that are doing this, is that there'll never be a right time.

David Hall [00:38:41]:
You just gotta do it. Yeah, yeah. And you know, one thing I, I— how I have talked about perfectionism in my internal dialogue is just like, you know, I'm no actor, but I definitely like to give public speeches. And it's like, you know what, you're not perfect, but nobody listening is either, you know?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:39:03]:
And that's really helped me. Of course.

David Hall [00:39:06]:
And nobody's perfect. Yeah. So you said in the end of your book, you talk about the fear of success. What is that? And how do we overcome that?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:39:14]:
The fear of success really is a lot of times the fear of change that has a lot to do with it. It's the fear of fear of change. And what's the consequences? Because most people, when they— you know, you talk about first success, they look at you like, what are you talking about? We're all chasing success. Yes, to a degree. But a lot of times, if you get— become successful in whatever it is you do, you're gonna— you're, you're so close, but your life may change, you know. And, and maybe You know, we don't like change as human beings. We don't like to be chan— we don't like to change. So it's not necessarily— it may— it is fear of success, but it's fear to change that's gonna be associated with that success.

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:39:59]:
It could be a change of identity, a change in relationships, a change in, in everything. And we're so used to being comfortable in what we're doing that anytime that we're going to be thrown into an upheaval, it's going to be scary.

David Hall [00:40:14]:
Yeah, Albert, I, I have enjoyed diving into your book. There's so much great content in there, and we can't possibly cover it all. Is there anything else you want to say today about your book or anything on the work that you do?

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:40:27]:
Well, the one thing I will say, you know, I'll kind of end with this, is we all have the resources we need to be successful, every one of us. It's just we sometimes lose the fact— the ability to do that. We lose the ability to tap into that. What we need to do is to be able to tap into it. And so that's what's important, the ability

David Hall [00:40:50]:
to tap into it. Yeah, well said on that. All right, Albert, thanks again. Uh, where can people find out more

Dr. Albert Bramante [00:40:57]:
about you and your book? Well, you could definitely check out my book on Amazon. It's Rise Above the Script, and it's available as an ebook as well as paperback and audiobook. So you can get it on Spotify where auto— major audiobooks are sold. And so I recommend that. I also— connect with me on LinkedIn, you know, under Albert Bramante, and I'd

David Hall [00:41:20]:
be happy to have conversations with you. Sounds great.

David Hall [00:41:24]:
Thanks, Albert. Thank you so much for joining me.

David Hall [00:41:26]:
I appreciate you.

David Hall [00:41:27]:
I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the 4-letter Myers-Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert.

David Hall [00:42:06]:
And so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.