Ep 268 - Unleashing Confidence as an Introvert with guest Dr. Dan Rosenfeld

Are you an introvert wondering how to unlock greater confidence by embracing your unique strengths? In this enlightening episode of the Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with Dr. Dan Rosenfeld—psychologist, dating coach, champion table tennis player, comedian, and author of "The Confidence Equation: 3 Keys to Unleashing Self-Confidence as an Introvert." Together, they explore the power of looking inward, share inspiring personal stories, and unpack strategies for building lasting self-trust.

Listeners will learn why comfort with solitude can be a superpower, how to balance alone time and meaningful connections, and ways to transform self-doubt into authentic confidence. Dr. Rosenfeld discusses his "confidence equation," emphasizing strategic vulnerability, adaptive resilience, and inquisitive self-discovery—tools any introvert can use to thrive in life and relationships. You'll also pick up practical ideas for navigating the dating world as an introvert and discover how introverts can shine on stage, whether in comedy, sports, or public speaking.

Whether you're on your own journey to self-acceptance or looking for actionable ways to build your confidence, this conversation is packed with uplifting insights and practical advice. Listen in, celebrate your introverted gifts, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/268

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld is a psychologist, dating coach, professional table tennis player, comedian, and author whose work has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, The Atlantic, and NPR. On Instagram his posts on personal growth reach more than 20 million people each month. He’s also a 2x U.S. Open gold medalist in table tennis and a national stand-up comedy champion. His new book, The Confidence Equation: Three Keys to Unleashing Self-Confidence as an Introvert, is available online through Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

Connect with Dan on Instagram

Transcript

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:00:00]:
Very quickly, I realized I'm taking the perspective of me as an introvert. I'm talking about my experience in terms of entirely introspective and reflective processes. And so I realized quickly that this book is two things. It's one, it's a book for introverts and those who want to, to understand and build themselves up by reflecting inward. And two, that this book, these personal stories I'm sharing in this memoir part of it, okay, that's great, but what is the lesson? What am I giving to other people from my stories? I realized, well, this is overcoming self-doubt and building self-confidence. And so ultimately, I took what I was working on as these stories of my life and built it up into the book it is now. About how to overcome self-doubt and build self-confidence as an introvert by looking inward.

David Hall [00:01:03]:
Hello and welcome to Episode 268 of the Quiet and Strong Podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing.

David Hall [00:01:43]:
Dr. Dan Rosenfeld is a psychologist, dating coach, professional table tennis player, comedian, an author whose work has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, The Atlantic, and NPR. On Instagram, his posts on personal growth reach more than 20 million people each month. He's also a two-time US Open gold medalist in table tennis and a national stand-up comedian champion. His new book, The Confidence Equation: 3 Keys to Unleashing Self-Confidence as an Introvert, is available online through Amazon and Barnes Noble. All right. Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong Podcast, Dan. Dan, it's so good to have you on today.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:02:25]:
It's a pleasure to be here.

David Hall [00:02:27]:
We're going to get into your latest book and the work you're doing around that. Tell us about yourself. Tell us about your journey to the work and the things that you're doing now.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:02:39]:
My journey. Oh boy. Where to start? Well, it started when I was a child. Well, I guess we'll go chronological here. That's a great way to structure a life. And so basically when I was born, I had a brain injury at birth and part of my brain called the cerebral motor cortex that controls how your muscles move and stuff got a permanent brain injury and it gave me a lifelong disability called cerebral palsy. So Growing up, I had a childhood marked by a lot of time in physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech therapy, learning how to do the normal things that kids learn to do, but on a slower and more intensive scale. So things like learning how to walk and how to talk right and how to button up your, you know, your own shirt, zip up your own pants, get a jacket on or get gloves on to go outside in the winter.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:03:38]:
And so all those things took quite a number of years to master. And so walking with leg braces on to correct the way I was walking or wearing hand splints and hand braces a lot of the time to correct my, my, the way my hands would work. So I grew up in a lot of rehabilitative therapy trying to overcome these obstacles. And so I think that was a foundation that at face value and how that can be experienced is really a lack of confidence because that's a lack of ability to do the things and do and, and pursue the goals and tasks and basic needs that you want to do as a person. And so from there, I was fortunate to get into sports at an early age. I dabbled across the board. I tried as best as I could to do soccer, baseball, tennis, ping pong. I even did my high school's wrestling, my middle school's wrestling team for a season and swimming team.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:04:40]:
And so I really like sports, even though some of them I wasn't as great at and other ones I became better at. And so if we fast forward quite a bit now, I got a PhD in psychology, psychologist. I'm a dating coach and author. And I've been a professional table tennis player and professional comedian to a smaller degree as well. So I've dabbled in a lot of things.

David Hall [00:05:05]:
Yeah, that is a lot of things. You're a busy guy.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:05:09]:
Thank you.

David Hall [00:05:11]:
What made you decide to be a psychologist?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:05:14]:
I've always just been really fascinated by how people think and feel and maybe at times don't think and don't feel. And so I've, I've always been really introspective and observational of the social world around me and how it operates. And so I think that people are just very complex, but also so simple in their complexity. And I really like how psychology allows me to observe patterns and trends across people, across situations. And view the world in a more systemic, clear way. I think psychology is everywhere. If I'm doing— if I'm playing sports, if I'm at a ping pong tournament, that's performance psychology. Most of my game is going to be psychological and not physical.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:06:10]:
If I'm giving a talk, if I'm on an esteemed podcast, I am going to have a lot of psychology going on in my head. Of how I can articulate myself. And so anything that I'm doing and anything people do, I think that, yeah, there's ability, there's, you know, knowledge, there's capability, there's goals, there's intentions. But psychology is what wraps that all together. And we're just such social, reflective, and emotional creatures as human beings. And that's all just what psychology tackles.

David Hall [00:06:47]:
Yeah, absolutely. So you definitely have overcome a lot of challenges and I told you, I think your book's inspiring. You talk about your challenges, how you overcame them, how to be confident. You know, there's some humor in there. So we're gonna get into your book, but first you're on the Quiet and Strong podcast, so you are a fellow introvert. How did you figure that out?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:07:10]:
I am such an introvert and I love it. And so I really settled into my introversion when I was in college. And that's a time when I think I had a lot of changes in the kind of social environment that I'm navigating. I'm at a place where you're living, you're living where you work, where you have your lifestyle, you're living with a bunch of other people everywhere you look, you're in classes, you're doing extracurriculars, you're finding your own identity and meaning in life. And you're exploring all of these things in such a rich social environment. And I think that understanding in college how extroverted ideals of how to form a life, how to go to parties, and what kind of lifestyles are encouraged by the environment you're in, versus have maybe a stigma to them. Seeing all the ways that people as young adults are forming their lives around me and how I was forming my own, I realized, hey, I, I like alone time, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, even though a lot of college culture might be shoving in your face that alone time or enjoying quieter spaces isn't always the ideal. And so Seeing that there's an extroverted ideal and that I do not enjoy conforming to it and that I have a choice of whether I do conform to it, that was very eye-opening for me.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:08:51]:
And I think that's when I started to not only understand what it means to be introverted in myself as an introvert, but to not fight against that and actually start to embrace it. That was a big pivotal point for me.

David Hall [00:09:05]:
Yeah, that's the whole key. 'Cause as a psychologist, you know that our personalities are pretty stable over our lifetimes. They're not gonna change much. No. But we can change incredibly by what you just said, embracing our natural gifts and abilities. We can have incredible success as we're talking about today, but we're not gonna turn into an extrovert, you know, but we sure can be really amazing introverts and understand our gifts. So I like how you said that.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:09:37]:
Thank you. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

David Hall [00:09:41]:
And what's a strength that you have because you're an introvert?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:09:45]:
Oh, definitely my comfort with alone time and solitude. And the reason I use the word comfort there is that a lot of people are afraid of solitude. And why they're afraid of solitude, I don't know exactly, but I think common potential reasons are one, that solitude can have a stigma in society. And I think the other thing is that solitude makes you alone with your thoughts and other people and technology and our careers and things that we do, as great as they can be and as important as they can be for our lives and our wellbeing, common distractions and never being alone with your thoughts isn't always the best way to saturate your mind. And it's really important to have time to be with your own thoughts and observe them and listen to what they're telling you, or to not listen to what they're telling you, at least to be in touch with them. And I think that's how you really can gain a lot of control. Over your mind is those moments of solitude. And that's how you know yourself.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:11:01]:
And that's how then you can go back out into the world with other people in a clearer, more grounded way. And so strength as an introvert for me is a comfort with alone time and knowing what it means to me and how to make the most of it. And I think, I think that that's just so important for building your confidence is just knowing yourself without other people or activities distracting that, that understanding.

David Hall [00:11:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, we have great minds and we need to give our minds some time to think. And, you know, we don't want to be alone all the time. We have family, friends, other people that we like to collaborate with, but we need some time alone and we do some great, we do some great work there. You know, you're a writer and an author and many other things and you need some time.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:11:54]:
Thank you. It's, it's, it's exactly, it's all the balance of what is your balance of alone time and togetherness and balancing that is so important. And that doesn't mean for everybody you need more alone time or you need more togetherness. It's just finding which one you're currently lacking and seeing how you can get more of that. And that helps both directions. It either, it either solves overstimulation and a lack of connection with yourself Or the other way, it solves loneliness and disconnectedness. You need a balance to not have either of those, those negative things and to have as many positives as you can in your life.

David Hall [00:12:35]:
Yeah. I love how you phrased that. Cause it's like, what do you want? You know? And once you determine maybe you're not having as much connection as you want, how do you get that? And how do you tap into your own personality? And there's many aspects of our personalities, as you know, but I focus on introversion, extroversion, just cuz there's still so much misunderstanding. And you know, it's about a 50/50 split in the population. You know, maybe some have said it, there might even be a little more introverts than extroverts, but a lot of people don't quite see it that way.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:13:09]:
Right. Yeah. So how do you get that? The, how do you get social connectedness? I mean, that comes from— I think it first starts with thinking about what are the kinds of social connectedness that we have. And one kind can be a romantic or intimate partner. Another kind could be family members or extended family. Another kind could be colleagues. Another kind could be close friends. Another kind is acquaintances and distant friends.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:13:42]:
And another kind is people who you see at maybe hobbies or events or things that you like to do with your time. So I would say it starts with making a, a list of those relevant categories to you and maybe scoring each of them. Am I, am I feeling good about this or is this part lacking? And so I would say that's the way to at least start and understand what kind of social connectedness am I seeking? Because you could have somebody who is, is doing great in so many of those categories, and they're like, I just really need more colleagues and people of that nature because I work alone and I don't like working alone. I want people to share my career experiences with. Other people might say, I'm doing great in all these regards and I have so many friends, but I really want a romantic partner, and that's the part that's lacking. Whatever it is for each person, I think that taking an inventory and, you know, survey of how they're doing is really important. And getting clarity on what part of your social connectedness might be missing is really helpful for that.

David Hall [00:14:57]:
Okay, well, speaking of romantic partners, you're a dating coach. Tell us about that.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:15:02]:
That's right, I'm a dating coach. And so Right now, so I've done some, you know, dating coaching and help people with their dating lives and especially helping them with online dating and understanding how that world works. And so it's quite the experience. And what I emphasize in all of my dating work is a common theme of, of self-awareness and self-understanding. And that's just the key that I think leads most people's dating and relationship lives to go awry is not understanding what other people that they might be dating or have been in a relationship with were, were going through or acting or what that person's behavior really meant and how it affected them and not understanding their own emotional experience and what is healthy versus unhealthy dynamics and ways to feel that are indicative of safety versus threat. And so that's the kind of themes that now I focus on a lot on my Instagram page at Dr. Dan PhD and do a lot of work there on trying to help people understand healthy versus unhealthy relationship and dating dynamics.

David Hall [00:16:15]:
Yeah. You know, introverts may struggle with dating. Do you have any general advice?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:16:22]:
Yeah, I mean, what introverts can work with really well is that self-understanding part. And so I would say with dating, start with self-understanding and work from self-understanding to self-acceptance. And so when you go into dating, you have to have a good sense of self-esteem and self-worth. That's the foundation. Without that, you really are going to have most of the increased chance of difficult dating experiences because it all starts with your own self-worth. And that's how you declare standards when you date. And that's how you find healthy partners who are interested in you and you're interested in them. And so I would say it starts with that understanding of what are your values as a person? What are your strengths and weaknesses? What have been your past dating and relationship experiences? And what have those taught you? And what are the things that you liked and didn't like from those experiences? And so understanding that dating is a very individualized process and you need to understand what you're bringing and what you're looking for and why you are even dating in the first place.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:17:33]:
Those are the things that I would recommend. And for introverts, I think that dating can be even a stronger experience than for extroverts in an ironic way that dating is all one-on-one. You know, usually one-on-one. Yeah, usually.

David Hall [00:17:49]:
Yeah.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:17:50]:
And so it's, it's an opportunity to connect meaningfully with another person one-on-one. And I think introverts can, can really have an excellent experience there by looking for meaningful connections and taking curiosity in the people they are dating and being able to in a meaningful way, express who they are and let somebody get to know them. That all starts with the confidence to go out there. So for introverts, I think dating can seem scarier and seem harder because there is maybe some self-doubt or a fear of not being outgoing, talkative, or sociable enough and needing to be somebody that you're not and feeling as though maybe this conversation I'm going to have might be draining, might be difficult to get through, might be centered on small talk, and I might not even be a good match despite all of that wasted energy. And so that's a mindset that I can, I can see happening. And I would say to that is that you have to just Let somebody see who you are in your authentic self and be curious to get to know them and just go into dating with one goal. Is this a, is this a good fit? Is there alignment here? And that's it. And if the date doesn't go well because one party or neither is interested, is not interested, that's not a failure.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:19:29]:
That's just a misalignment. And the more you go on dates, the more that you experience those kind of situations, the more confident you feel in them and the more resilience that you build up to those kind of experiences that can be quite stressful at first.

David Hall [00:19:47]:
Yeah. So I think we should start talking about your book because it's very related. You know, let me just read the whole title here. The Confidence Equation: 3 Keys to Unleashing Self-Confidence as an Introvert. So what made you write this, write this book?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:20:05]:
This book started as a memoir and me reflecting on my life and wanting to write about my experiences so far, but more importantly, what have I learned from them? And what lessons can other people take away from my experiences when I combine my firsthand accounts with my understanding of the psychological phenomena that have been going on in those accounts. And so very soon when writing, I was thinking more about who is this book for? There's only one Dan Rosenfield out there, and I'm not going to sell one copy to myself. And so I said, I want to know who the target audience is and who this book will resonate with and what kind of perspective am I taking in this book. And very quickly I realized I'm taking the perspective of me as an introvert. I'm talking about my experience in terms of entirely introspective and reflective processes. And so I realized quickly that this book is two things. It's one, It's a book for introverts and those who want to, to understand and build themselves up by reflecting inward. And two, that this book, these personal stories I'm sharing in this memoir part of it.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:21:35]:
Okay, that's great. But what is the lesson? What am I giving to other people from my stories? I realized, well, this is overcoming self-doubt and building self-confidence. And so ultimately I took what I was working on as these stories of my life and built it up into, into the book it is now about how to overcome self-doubt and build self-confidence as an introvert by looking inward.

David Hall [00:22:00]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I told you, I'm enjoying your book. It's inspiring. I mean, I mean that.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:22:05]:
Thank you.

David Hall [00:22:06]:
Can you share, and it's full of challenges that you've overcome and ways that you've dealt with challenges and been successful in many areas. Is there a particular challenge you want to share today that you overcame?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:22:18]:
And sure, I'll share, I'll share two. And so two different flares. So one of them is about table tennis and, you know, actually I'll start with the other one. I'll go chronological.

David Hall [00:22:34]:
Okay. Okay.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:22:34]:
One of them is about when I started karate and I started karate when I was 5 years old in my orthopedic surgeon recommended that I do karate as a type of physical therapy exercise. And it could be really good to improve my struggling balance and hand-eye coordination and ability to be flexible and move my body in a healthier way. So I got into karate as a, as a physical therapy exercise. And I remember that my first class, well, when I showed up. And after the class, the instructor was really skeptical of my ability to be in the class and basically said to my mom, you know, let's reconsider his enrollment. I'm worried if he's able to keep up with the other kids and fit in. And so that kind of experience and other instances of that in my life have built up this ability to see when other people doubt me, that's not a personal thing about me. This is a bias or preconceived idea that they're having that will only become my own self-limiting belief if I read into it as true.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:23:55]:
And so I was able to stay in that karate class, and 5, 6 years later, that same instructor who had this doubt gave me a third-level brown belt. And so I did all right in that class.

David Hall [00:24:10]:
That's amazing.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:24:11]:
Thank you. And the other story that I'll share is, is just later on when I did my professional table tennis training and, and competing. I mean, I've worked with so many coaches, like, I've been really fortunate, just amazing world-class coaches. And in ping pong, there's your forehand and backhand, just like in tennis or any other racket sport. And my forehand is really good. It's great. It's always been good. And my backhand, though, has never been that good.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:24:42]:
And coaches would try to work on it. I'd be motivated to work on my backhand, like, let me do the right form and hit the ball the right way. And I realized after a while, like, my body is just not going to let me do the correct backhand. Hand. My hips, my shoulders are just kind of misaligned and have tightness and limited range of motion in a way that I'm going to hurt myself trying to do this backhand the right way, and it's not going to feel good. So in my early mid-20s, well, quite a way into my table tennis career, I just said I'm done with it. I'm done working on my backhand the quote-unquote right way. I was like, I'm gonna just do the backhand the total wrong way.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:25:28]:
Like, I was already hitting the ball with the wrong form. And I was like, I'm gonna make my wrong weird form even wronger and weirder. And so it became like a trick shot. I now have a really quirky, strange backhand that catches my opponents off guard and has won me medals. And it's like, I tried to do this thing that everyone in positions of really knowledge, expertise, authority were saying, do it this way, and everybody else is doing it that way. So I was like, I should do it that way. But I was like, but this way isn't working for me. So it was so empowering to say, I'm going to find my own way and not feel pressured to conform to what other people are across the board telling me to do.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:26:14]:
And so It's also made the game a lot more fun. It's fun to be able to have your own little flair on a sport or activity.

David Hall [00:26:21]:
Yeah, that's cool. And you're still competing, right?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:26:26]:
I do. I still compete twice a year.

David Hall [00:26:28]:
Awesome. So I love that your book is about confidence, particularly for introverts. That's why I do this show, and I always point out that there are some introverts that have always been confident. They didn't struggle. I'm married to one, you know, and it's, then that's great for them, but that wasn't the case for me. You know, I thought something was wrong with me. You know, I thought, why can't I be more comfortable in social situations like that person I see? And it was a, it was a long journey for me, but I've come to know that understanding your, your introversion can definitely help you gain confidence. What is your confidence equation?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:27:15]:
So the confidence equation is 3 keys, and the first one is strategic vulnerability. The second is adaptive resilience, and the third is inquisitive self-discovery. And the book— each of those 3 keys is a section of the book and has 4 chapters within it to break down the concept. But in short, the first one about vulnerability is becoming comfortable with your vulnerability and knowing how and when to step into vulnerable experiences and vulnerable moments so that you're allowed to connect with yourself on a more authentic, deeper level, and you're able to connect with others on a deeper level as well. And so I go into some of the fears that people have around vulnerability and how to overcome them, as well as situations that you wouldn't even expect to be vulnerable moments, like uncertainty in life. That's a real fear that people have of, I need to plan and anticipate and forecast, and oh no, things didn't go as planned. What do I do? That's vulnerability because you're feeling vulnerable to whatever effects you're worried about. You're feeling a lack of control over a situation.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:28:38]:
That's vulnerability. So that's what the first part of the book is. The next is on resilience, and that is how to increase your capacity to endure challenging situations, how to bounce back from failure or rejection or a high-pressure situation, how to not let that make you start to really doubt yourself and fall apart under the pressure. And so that's about how do you weather challenges and how do you build up your internal muscle to be capable of stepping into new challenges. And the third part of the book is about self-discovery. That's how do you understand yourself in a way that blocks out the noise of other people and the world and social media and all of these noisy elements in our lives. So that's about looking inward and having a more lighthearted, self-loving approach to life and your own self.

David Hall [00:29:35]:
Yeah, that's great. And, you know, earlier you were talking about being self-aware. How do we gain that?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:29:45]:
How to gain self-awareness? I would say the first and most powerful thing is to meditate. And it can be a minute, it can be 10 minutes, it can be a half hour, whatever. Generally, the longer the better, but do what you need to do to start. And I think meditation is so important for building self-awareness because meditation is really just saying, I'm not going to have external stimuli hitting me. I'm not going to have other people talking to me. I'm not going to be watching TV or working or reading or deliberately trying to think about something and, and get caught away in some internal simulation of that nature. It's just saying, I'm just going to be here. I'm just going to exist in this moment without occupying my attention with something external.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:30:39]:
And so that's the space where you build self-awareness because you literally become aware of how your mind is working. And that's so important to understand what your self-talk is like and what your thoughts and feelings are like as they emerge. And what that does over time is let you decide which of those thoughts and feelings to respond to and react to versus to not have any more power over you. Meditation also has physical and physiological benefits as well. It really helps your body's stress response. So for introverts, if you're going into a lot of situations that are social, there can be a stress response. Your body can tighten up. You could have an increased heart rate or cortisol response.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:31:31]:
And so meditation really buffers your body's stress response across a variety of situations, really any situation you encounter when you've done it for a long enough period. In addition to meditation, therapy is very powerful for building self-awareness. That's usually the goal of most talk therapy programs. I would say those are the two biggest things for building self-awareness.

David Hall [00:31:57]:
Great. And it's just so important to get to know who we are. And yeah, I like how you said, you know, we can challenge that self-talk that's not good for us. We can fill our minds with positive messages instead.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:32:11]:
That's right. You can't, you can't challenge something unless you're aware that it's there and you know what it looks like. That's how, that's how you get to know your thoughts. They look like something and, and you can be aware that they're there. They're not in the background.

David Hall [00:32:25]:
Yeah. You also, in your book, you talk about resilience. Tell us about that.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:32:31]:
Resilience is, is all about how do you bounce back from adversity? You know, that's a past tense of resilience. And there's also a future tense of resilience, which is how do you believe in yourself to endure challenges in the future? And so resilience is so important for confidence because when you don't have resilience or you don't believe that you have resilience, you don't go into new challenges with an attitude that's self-serving. You go into them with a self-defeating attitude. And so I guess on a more personal level for me, having a disability, that's just like every day is this like battle of resilience where I'm like, I am having these challenges and am I going to respond to them? Am I going to let them mess up my day? Do I believe that I can endure them? And if I cannot, how can I get the help that I need to endure them? That's all resilience. So resilience isn't— it's not getting over your challenges and being immune to them. It's just not letting them ruin your day. And so it's really taking back your agency. That's what resilience is.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:33:45]:
It's just, I can get through this and I can step into this new experience and I can believe that even if I fall apart, I can get back up. And it's not the end of the world.

David Hall [00:34:00]:
Yeah. So Dan, we bust myths on this show about introverts and you've done comedy and sometimes a myth is introverts, they, they can't be comedians or actors or name a type of performer, but we both know that's not true. So you've done comedy. You actually write about winning an award. Tell us about that.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:34:24]:
Yeah, this is a great one. And this one has personal part of role in my story because whenever I've done comedy, I've done stand-up comedy and as well as improv comedy performing. And whenever I've done comedy, everyone just assumes that I'm an extrovert. And it's like this— it becomes like a debate where I'll say, no, no, no, I'm an introvert. Even though you just saw me on stage, like, I'm an introvert and they don't believe me. And it's like, okay, there's a really strong belief here about any kind of public speaking and performing, maybe especially comedy and extroversion. And here's what I'll say on that. The simple way to put it, when I have done stand-up, that's even if there are hundreds of people in the audience, guess what? None of them are talking to me.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:35:17]:
It's just me. It's just me and a mic. Yeah, I'm not having— that's the least kind of social interaction. I can get the job done of talking to hundreds of people at once in a 5-minute period without having to actually talk to any of them. I mean, you know, I'm being comical here, but it really is an interesting dynamic that you're able to just be present with yourself on stage and and share something with an audience. And that starts with the introspection of knowing what to share. And the only fear and the only anxiety that you'll have with any kind of comedy you're performing is the fear of being judged. Besides that, there's nothing to fear.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:36:06]:
You're just talking. It's just that the people are there and that's it. And their presence makes you feel maybe insecure or self-aware in a way that you don't like to feel. And it can make you catastrophize and ruminate over what are these worst scenarios of failure. And so in my book, I have content and chapters and parts of chapters on fear of failure, fear of rejection. How do you overcome these things? And basically, if you're not afraid, if you don't care about the rejection or judgment from others, what's there to fear with going out on stage and just talking? So that's how I view it as really compatible with introversion is performing. And I think it's doing stand-up. You don't do stand-up because you're confident.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:37:00]:
You become confident by doing something like stand-up.

David Hall [00:37:05]:
Yeah. And I think a lot, maybe even a majority of comedians are introverts because we're always thinking and we think about how just the absurdities of different things in our lives, you know, like, why is it like, why is something like that? You know?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:37:21]:
Yeah. It's, it's the job of a comedian is going to be 99% of the time. You probably, you might be alone writing. And then 1% of the time you're on stage and you don't even have to have a conversation. You're just talking, you're talking at people. I mean, that's a pretty introverted kind of, kind of dynamic, I would say. Yeah.

David Hall [00:37:45]:
Yeah. And you know, I haven't gotten up and done standup or anything, but I do love public speaking. And so, you know, it's a myth that introverts don't like to perform in some kind of way, because. It's, it's, it's just kind of crazy. So let me ask you one more thing about comedy. So one of the thing challenges introverts have is thinking on our feet. So you also do improv. How does that work if you, you know, may, may struggle with thinking on your feet?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:38:15]:
That's a big one where I've done improv for 3, 4 years, and when I started doing improv, it was terrifying. So much scarier than standup. And because it's collaborative, there are people right there and it's unscripted. You cannot plan and prepare for it. So improv was really scary for me. And I realized from doing improv that the reason why it was scary and why it became no longer scary— now I've done improv shows in front of audiences many times. In improv shows, the audience is 5 feet away from you. They're not, not like on a stage with stand-up.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:38:57]:
They're right there. And it all comes down to self-trust. So when you do improv, it's unscripted and you're working with other people and you're not sure what's going to happen and you don't want to mess it up. You don't want to let your scene partner down. You don't want the audience to be bored. You don't want to feel lousy in yourself. There are a lot of things you can be worried about. And for improv, what it teaches us is that it all comes down to self-trust.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:39:27]:
If you trust yourself, one, when the moment arises, I'll know what to say. Two, if I don't say the right thing, either my scene partner I'm working with will help me out, or I'll have an opportunity to say something else later, and it can all be okay. I think those are, those are really important lessons is that you don't have to have it all figured out. You can figure it out as you go. Other people might actually help you out. And if you totally mess up, no one like really cares as much as you care. And you can control how much you care knowing that the other people's judgments, they're not as harsh as we might think they are. And so that's how I've taken improv to be an experience of if I can trust myself that I'll figure it out.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:40:20]:
And if I can just make my goal to respond and listen to what my scene partners are telling me and saying, well, I don't have to really do much work because I can just listen and give a simple response. And that's how you build something in a scene.

David Hall [00:40:41]:
Yeah.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:40:42]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:40:42]:
Dan, we've covered a lot of ground today. Is there anything else that you want to talk about?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:40:48]:
No, I think, I think we've covered excellent ground and I hope that the listeners took away at least one thing here that I said that makes them go, huh? All right. If, if that happened. I'll be, I'll be very happy, man.

David Hall [00:41:06]:
All right. Where can people find out more about you and the great book that you just put out there?

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:41:12]:
So you can find my book on Amazon or in select Barnes Noble, and it is called The Confidence Equation: 3 Keys to Unleashing Self-Confidence as an Introvert. And you can order it in paperback, in an audiobook format, or on an ebook. So. Your mode of choice, go forth. And you can follow me and my work on Instagram @drdanphd.

David Hall [00:41:44]:
Awesome. Thanks again, Dan.

Dr. Dan Rosenfeld [00:41:45]:
All right. Pleasure to be here. Thank you, David.

David Hall [00:41:48]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the 4-letter Myers-Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more.

David Hall [00:42:24]:
Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert. And so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.