Ep 270 - Self-Leadership and Clarity with guest Ruth Andermatt

Have you ever wondered how self-leadership can transform your impact as an introvert—both in life and at work? In this insightful episode, host David Hall welcomes self-leadership coach Ruth Andermatt to explore what it truly means to come home to yourself and lead with clarity, energy, and intention.

Listeners will discover how embracing your introverted strengths can fuel authentic leadership, the power of reflection without falling into overthinking, and practical strategies for managing your energy—especially in high-pressure environments. Learn how to break free from conformity, hear real-life stories about navigating unexpected paths, and get tips on creating space for diverse voices at the table.

Whether you’re seeking more confidence, a deeper understanding of your leadership style, or ideas for building stronger teams, this conversation will inspire you to rethink what it means to lead powerfully as an introvert. Tune in to uncover key takeaways on authenticity, intentionality, and making your unique impact—and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/270

Ruth Andermatt is a Self-Leadership Coach whose journey has unfolded far from the expected path. From playing women’s university ice hockey in Canada on one of the first athletic scholarship programs in the early 1980’s, to gaining deep corporate leadership insight and over 28 years of leadership coaching experience, she’s gathered wisdom through lived experience. Leadership, sports, music, and dogs have been a lifelong source of connection and resonance for her. Today, she shares that wisdom to help women come home to themselves and lead with clarity and ease through some of life’s most turbulent chapters.

Connect with Ruth: LinkedIn | Website

Transcript

Ruth Andermatt [00:00:00]:
There is that, that aspect of leadership that comes forward when you're curious enough about the people you're interacting with and you want the best for them and you want them to rise, but not at the expense of the rest of the group. It's having everybody rise. I'm in this fabulous choir. It's a Broadway choir and we're a group of 150. And the woman who runs our choir, Incredible introvert has a way of setting it up where everybody's voice matters. And there are times to say, and you've had your say, and this is the step that we're taking now. And it's, it's beautiful because she doesn't chime in. In the beginning, people feel heard.

Ruth Andermatt [00:00:38]:
They're part of the creative process. And then a leader does need to say, and now. And to me, it's that leadership that's part of the circle. But okay with standing up and saying, okay, follow me. This is where we're going. And it's. We don't see a lot of that right now and we, we desperately need it.

David Hall [00:01:08]:
Hello. Welcome to episode 270 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David hall, and the creator of Quiet and Strong dot com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and also help others find the show, tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing.

David Hall [00:01:41]:
Ruth Andermatt is a self leadership coach whose journey has unfolded far from the expected path. From playing women's university ice hockey in Canada on one of the first athletic scholarship programs in the early 80s, to gaining deep corporate leadership insight and over 28 years of leadership coaching experience. She's gathered wisdom through lived experience. Leadership, sports, music and dogs have been a lifelong source of connecting and resonance for her. Today, she shares that wisdom to help women come home to themselves and lead with clarity and ease through some of life's most turbulent chapters. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Ruth. Ruth, it's so good to have you on today.

Ruth Andermatt [00:02:28]:
Thanks, David. I'm really looking forward to chatting with you. I, I certainly enjoyed our meet and greet and went, I'm, I'm going to enjoy this, so thanks for having me.

David Hall [00:02:37]:
Yeah, same here. Same here. So we're going to get into the great work you do. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey to the work that you do.

Ruth Andermatt [00:02:45]:
It's been a real process of discovery. David. I, you know, I realized life doesn't happen in straight lines. We try and understand it in straight lines. And I look back at where. Not look back, but I look at where I am now and I scratch my head at times. How did I, how did I actually get here? And yet I realized I got here by being curious and stepping into the next, the next step and the next step. You know, I, I began in university with a, doing a phys ed degree.

Ruth Andermatt [00:03:16]:
Loving coaching, loving people, loving coaching. Had this great idea and I think I shared with you before. After university, I went to work at a mental institution which was kind of like, how did I end up here? I was in the physio department and it taught me a lot about how to meet people where they are. You don't know how they're adapting in their medication cycle. You don't know any of that stuff. But it was a, it was a massive eye opener and very humbling to go, you know, be where you are, make sure you're safe for people not intruding in their space. And I had a great time there. And then another friend said, I think you'd like direct sales at Xerox because, you know, that's a straight line from a mental institution into business.

David Hall [00:04:00]:
Yeah.

Ruth Andermatt [00:04:01]:
And you know what? I, I did really enjoy it because it was all about relationships. And at Xerox they talk, get great sales skills and all that kind of thing. But it really taught me to be interested in people. And you deal with everybody from doctors to lawyers to mechanics, and you need to just meet them where they are. And from there I then went into. There was a cell phone industry up here. Started with Cantel, and I started as the sales training manager for Western Canada. So lots of traveling.

Ruth Andermatt [00:04:36]:
And that was fascinating because I was on the road three weeks out of four. So learning to be with yourself, learning to look after yourself. How do you, how do you compose yourself in all these different time zones? And I continued to grow in that job and ultimately became a director of operations. And that was fascinating because I was the only woman in the country. I had a staff of 70 that I was responsible for. All of my branch managers were male and they were not really impressed with what they called the token skirt.. And it forced me to really, really deepen into why am I here? What have I got to offer why are they here? How do we meet on there? And a whole variety of personalities and knowing. Coming back to it was just like working at the mental institute.

Ruth Andermatt [00:05:29]:
Well, it was crazy at times, but working at the mental institute where it was, where is this guy? What is it he needs? How can I be of support? What do we need to do next? And. And that was fascinating because I didn't have the business training, certainly foundational business and sales approach from Xerox, but it was really, for me, it was really about how do you enhance the team and how do you bring a team forward? And there were not a lot of people that were pulling for my success. So I didn't have a lot of mentors and I didn't have a lot of support, and I thought a lot about. I did a lot of sports and a lot of activities with my older brother growing up. And I kept thinking, how do I. How do I interact with my brother? How do I. How do I come forward with these guys that we end up being collaborators, collaborators on this? And that's what came forward. And it was a time into the 90s where there were lots of.

Ruth Andermatt [00:06:32]:
Right. Sizing, resizing, streamlining. I then became part of big layoff package. And that was. That was really humbling because I was only in my mid-30s, and it was like. And. And now what I knew, I knew the corporate path wasn't really calling me, except I loved the aspect of the integration of all the people and the teams and the interacting. And then another friend, I seemed to be, you know, connecting with friends every so often and said, why don't you get trained in energy work and Reiki? So I went off and did the training.

Ruth Andermatt [00:07:07]:
So I'd started a practice then where I was doing healing work, and I developed a business coaching practice, and I kept them very separate, Very separate. And then what I realized over time was the people coming for business coaching really needed help in anchoring and getting settled into themselves. I mean, we're talking. This is the mid-90s, and the Reiki clients needed help with next steps, and how did they get there? So ultimately, over time, they got united. And to me, it's. I really look at it as taking the intellect and intuition and uniting it and bringing it forward to wisdom. So it's a longer answer on how I got here. There's been a few more years inside of all of that, and what's been fascinating for me is to realize we keep wanting straight lines, and the more we can enjoy the seemingly detour or the hijacking that's where we really learn about ourselves.

Ruth Andermatt [00:08:03]:
And I've had enough jagged lines off in different directions that have brought me to my knees that I've come home going, okay, where am I in this? Who am I in this? Like, am I home? And there's so many. There's so many distracting factors. Yeah. So that's a bit how I got here.

David Hall [00:08:23]:
Yeah. We can make plans, but things are going to happen that we just don't anticipate.

Ruth Andermatt [00:08:28]:
Totally. Totally. And, you know, most of the things that happened, many of the things I wouldn't have chosen. And yet I know it's been those moments. It's been the eye of the needle. You know, it's been the best of times, it's been the worst of times. It's where I access the most wisdom within me. Because I realized it wasn't the good days, it wasn't the great days, sitting on the dock with your feet up, you know, having a cold beverage, enjoying the sunshine.

Ruth Andermatt [00:08:55]:
It was in those dark, lonely moments where everything you thought you believed in was dismantling. It's quite humbling when you start to realize, oh, I, too. I too am simply human. Whatever that means. Yeah. Yeah.

David Hall [00:09:11]:
So, Ruth, you are a fellow introvert, and you're on the quietestrong podcast. So tell us about that. When did you figure out that you were an introvert and did you have to work to embrace it?

Ruth Andermatt [00:09:20]:
Well, what was interesting, if you talked to me in my corporate days, I would have told you I'm not. And yet in my corporate days, I fueled myself on high adrenaline. Like, I was living off a couple double cappuccinos and probably six to eight cups of coffee a day. So a lot of caffeine. And then my way of relaxing was into sports and at the gym and running and high driving, high push, high push. And when I got the handshake from corporate and I got the outplacement package, one of the part of the package was the Myers Briggs, and it came out and it went introverted. Well, I was a bit shocked, and I was kind of resistant. And then as I came to understand, well, what does that actually reflect and mean to me? And for me, it's not so much how do you appear in the outside world, but how do I restore? How do I come home to me, how do I shut.

Ruth Andermatt [00:10:17]:
Shut out the chaos and just settle down? And then I started learning much more about the introverted way. And, you know, since I left that part of my life, that corporate life has been fascinating. It's like, okay, so I'm feeling all these things. What do I need to do? Oh, typically grab the dog, go into the woods. Oh, turn off all the music and the lights in the house and just be quiet, whatever that means. Oh, take some time to write. And I even know now I love socializing events in bite sized pieces. And if I'm out, I was just having this conversation with a friend the other day and she goes, you, you go out a lot.

Ruth Andermatt [00:11:00]:
And I thought, well, I'm single and, and the dog is a great conversationalist but not always forthcoming in the conversation. So I do like the exchange. But I know now that when I go out I need to pace myself and I'll take timeouts in the bathroom or deliberately. I'll take a, take the dog to a social event and go, oh, he needs to go to the bathroom. And I'll go out and go for a walk around the block. So it's been a, it was a bit shocking to discover and then it was kind of a relief because when I look back in my childhood and go, what did I do when things became too much? Oh, I grabbed the dog and I went into the woods and down the creek and I just, I just dabbled, I played, I, I explored. And it was usually just my dog and I, and I go, amazing. All these years later, oh, that's still what soothes my soul.

David Hall [00:12:02]:
Yeah, yeah, it's the Myers Briggs was very instrumental for me figuring things out. And you know, you mentioned that you, you want to have connection. We all do it. Sometimes people relate that to being an extrovert. But no, everybody needs connection. We just might want it in different amounts or different settings. You know, some introverts really thrive in small groups or one on ones and you just gotta figure out what that is. But to say that if you want connection, you're an extrovert, that's, that's not correct.

David Hall [00:12:36]:
That's not the right way of looking at it. And too often people are looking at it that way. Well, you can't be an introvert because you like people. Like, yeah, yeah, we do, we do like people well.

Ruth Andermatt [00:12:47]:
And the other fallacy we hear a lot is, well, you can't be an introvert and be a leader. Well, I think, you know, as we think back to the meet and greet call we were having, I've only really just deciphered, as I look back, probably 90% of my client base are introverts. Well, that's not your standard leader in the market today, but it's a leader that is Incredibly powerful when they find terms with their own style of leadership because there are not a lot of versions out there. So.

David Hall [00:13:18]:
So looking back, what would you say was a strength that maybe you weren't calling it introverted, but a strength that you had that contributed to your leadership and your success?

Ruth Andermatt [00:13:29]:
Oh, that's a good question. I think the strength came from realizing I wasn't here to do things the same old way and I wasn't going to find the version around me. So once I stopped grappling for how, how do you do it? Everybody, where is there a book? What's the best way? And then realizing, oh, what would I have needed in that situation? You know, I. I always think, you know, we learn more from bad bosses or bad leaders than we do from good ones. So I went back to those moments, going, in that moment, what. What could have really helped me there? And I began including that in what I did. And at first I thought, well, it's not really enough. Well, 28 years later, into leadership, I go, oh, that's.

Ruth Andermatt [00:14:15]:
That's enough. And even just holding that space for someone allows them to exhale into it, feel safe, and begin to trust themselves. And it's. We're not in a world that likes to support people doing things outside the beaten path. We want a lot of conformity because then we understand. Or so we think. Not always.

David Hall [00:14:40]:
Yeah. And we have. There's such a wide spectrum of different personality types that no leader is going to look alike. And definitely the path to success for introverted leader is going to look different than their extroverted colleague.

Ruth Andermatt [00:14:57]:
Totally. Totally. And once they can get by the comparison and understand their impact is like no other. And to really come back to am I having the impact I intend? Great. If not, what's the gap and why is that happening? But most people don't want to stop and look at that. They want to say it's because it's this or it's that. And it's like, what am I doing? How's that being reflected back? And. And in the world of introversion, to not run off and look for the solution, it's actually to come home.

Ruth Andermatt [00:15:34]:
And I think that's for any leader, no matter extroverted. Introverted. It's. It's really, I need to come home to me, and I need to actually take ownership for how I want to operate. And to realize what you think you're doing isn't necessarily how it's going to land. And that's a big one. Yeah, yeah.

David Hall [00:15:52]:
And, you know, before I understood my introversion. I definitely tried to be something I wasn't, you know, and I just realized, oh, not only is acting in an authentic way draining for me, it's not as effective. And I've learned that tapping into my own introverted skills. I am so much more effective than trying to be something I wasn't.

Ruth Andermatt [00:16:13]:
Well, and the power of the introvert is saying less has more consequence than saying more. And. And when you can truly listen to a group and watch what's happening and. And those around you who are astute enough to discern what's happening, there becomes a realization and the power of the silence, intentional silence, and not the gap of fear and withdrawing. It's actually being set steady, being quiet on purpose. And as I know, as I said to you, the bulk of my clients are introverts and realizing they're super thoughtful with their words. They don't just. They're not blabberjacks.

Ruth Andermatt [00:16:57]:
They don't just throw it out into the conversation. They will deliberately place and they won't force.

David Hall [00:17:05]:
Yeah, yeah, I'd love how you said that, because so with me, I. Before I understood my introversion, I definitely lacked confidence. I was shy. But the thing I realized was once I understood, oh, you usually think first and then speak, and it's a strength. You know, you do need some time alone. You don't want to be alone all the time, but you need some time alone. And that's also a strength. But what I realized was, even though I'm so confident now, I'm never going to be a blabberjack.

David Hall [00:17:35]:
I love that word. You introduced that word to me, so I realized that I am not going to say as many words as somebody. And sometimes that's what's praised is, oh, you know, the person that talks the most. But really, you know, even the name of the Quiet Strong podcast, it is for those that aren't talking as much, but they're saying things that are really important. They're saying wise things, sharing innovative ideas, but they're not prob. The quiet part doesn't mean shy. The quiet part just means you're thinking.

Ruth Andermatt [00:18:06]:
Precisely. Precisely. Because there is a very big confusion around. Oh, that person's. They're really shy. No, they're quiet. There are shy introverts as well, but that's not. That's where the assumption gets us off track.

David Hall [00:18:22]:
Yeah. And they're shy extroverts, so it's not the right word.

Ruth Andermatt [00:18:26]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:18:26]:
And one thing is, I think a lot of introverts are shy because they don't understand their introversion. So that was the case for me. Again, there could be other causes too, for why you lack confidence. But if you understand how you work, what your strengths are, your value. Again, back to what you said, not comparing yourself to others, you can be. You can overcome shyness. You can gain confidence by understanding yourself totally.

Ruth Andermatt [00:18:53]:
Totally. And it comes back to being aware, what am I doing? Why am I doing it? How do I want to do it? And. And listening. Am I having some fun doing this? Because if it's a should do, must do. Hang on, time out. What's my plan here? Do I have a plan? You know, doesn't always have to be a plan, but you do have to be connected to do I have an intention. And we can get caught on a lot of stuff, being on autopilot and then go, I don't understand. It's like, yeah, because you were missing in action, even though you were there for every step.

Ruth Andermatt [00:19:27]:
You know, people will joke about having experience, and I talk to them about having lived experience. Lived experience, meaning you actually were there during the experience, and you. And you learned from it. And just to have the experience and have gone through autopilot doesn't mean you've picked it up. Yeah.

David Hall [00:19:45]:
So you already busted the myth of. You know, some people say, well, introverts can't be great leaders, but of course they can. We both know it. You know, it's just like, might look a little differently. How would you define a great leader?

Ruth Andermatt [00:19:59]:
Oh, well, a great leader, to me, it's someone that's incredibly clear about why they're here, what they want to do, engaging with who they're interacting with, making room for everybody, but having clarity to discern when it's time to speak up and go, okay, enough already. We need to move into. So it's. It's not one style fits all of it. It's that leader that goes, I love leading. Not, I was good at all of this stuff and I got promoted into a leadership position there is that. That aspect of leadership that comes forward when you're curious enough about the people you're interacting with and you want the best for them and you want them to rise, but not at the expense of the rest of the group. It's having everybody rise.

Ruth Andermatt [00:20:47]:
I'm in this. I told you, in our meet and greet, a fabulous choir. It's a Broadway choir, and we're a group of 150. And the woman who runs our choir, incredible introvert, has a way of setting it up where everybody's voice matters. And there are times to say, and you've had your say. And this is the step that we're taking now. And it's, it's beautiful because she doesn't chime in. In the beginning, people feel heard, they're part of the creative process.

Ruth Andermatt [00:21:14]:
And then a leader does need to say, and now. And to me, it's that leadership that's part of the circle. But okay with standing up and saying, okay, follow me. This is where we're going. And it's. We don't see a lot of that right now. And we, we desperately need it.

David Hall [00:21:33]:
Yeah. And you also talk about self leadership. What is that?

Ruth Andermatt [00:21:37]:
It's one of those funny terms that people go, what's that? Well, I came to understand, especially in the process of leaving corporate life, starting to appreciate, oh yeah, what's this introvert stuff and how is that me and how does it work? Well, I realized in self leadership, when I can lead myself, I can lead the world. I need to tune in, turn on, be in the moment and take responsibility for myself. That is self leadership. And that doesn't happen by accident. We think we're with it, but it's actually, have I taken stock? Am I here? Did I walk into this situation with intention? Am I living up to that intention? And the self leadership is realizing it's all a reflection of how you've conducted yourself. Not, oh, he's being a jerk and she's not doing enough. It's like, hey, just a minute. How did I bring myself in this interaction? Have I taken responsibility for who I am and how I'm operating? And then invite them in and you might need to guide them forward or you might say, hey, I don't think we have a path forward together.

Ruth Andermatt [00:22:42]:
But that self leadership really comes back to me taking charge of me. And I like to refer to it as it's all about me managing my energy. Like managing energy making sure there are times I come in and, you know, I might have had a few cups of coffee and I might have a little adrenaline going on. I need to read the room. Like, are they with me at that? I need to modulate, I need to be here. Or the rest of the room is revved up and I'm super quiet. Finding a place where you interface so you can move forward. And that's me managing me.

Ruth Andermatt [00:23:15]:
That's the self leadership.

David Hall [00:23:17]:
Talk a little bit more about managing your energy. How do you do that, especially as an introvert?

Ruth Andermatt [00:23:22]:
Well, you need to be, you need to be tuned in. Like, I know when people are quiet, they can get very into their own world and become oblivious to what's happening around them. It's take stock of where you are. What does that mean? What am I, what am I feeling? Am I, am I here? Am I daydreaming? Am I thinking about future projects? Where am I in relation to time? And then tuning into what that means in the context that you're in and managing energy. You know, you see it with dogs like all the time, someone will come in, you can see that dog already stepping back. Well, this is a person that's come with huge energy and the dog's already resistant. Or they're very quiet and the dog, you know, comes not quiet, but they're, they're contained. So it's something we don't talk a lot about, but we all feel it.

Ruth Andermatt [00:24:15]:
We all have a gut reaction of, oh, I walk into a room and yeah, I'd like to connect with him. Her, not so much or yeah, her I wouldn't mind talking to. We know, we know. We can read the energy whether we, whether we appreciate it or not. Yeah.

David Hall [00:24:32]:
So you talked about becoming a coach. Tell us a little bit more. Like, why did you decide to become a coach?

Ruth Andermatt [00:24:38]:
Well, you know, that makes me smile because I don't think I got to become a coach. I think I just was, which sounds really funny. Like I think back to being a kid and you know, being on sports teams and, and being in performances and, and I was always so excited when everybody felt included and when everybody was rising up because I realize I have some pretty definite opinions, but I'm really curious to hear the opinions that are not mine. And that has a very different way of operating and bringing forward in people. So when I started to understand, oh, that's, that's what it looks like. Oh, that's what it feels like. So when I went to university and did a physical education degree, it was with the thought of I was going to do one to one coaching. I love that stuff.

Ruth Andermatt [00:25:34]:
And then I end up in business. It's like, what? Well, there's more teamwork and more coaching even at a peer level, like you don't have to be the boss to coach. And it, it just started to resonate with me and going, oh, if I sit with people and want to help them bring their best forward, that's, that's all coaching is. Well, you know, When I started 28 years ago, no one talked about coaching. I was just sitting around helping people feel better about themselves. I mean, not patronizing. I didn't tell people good things if there weren't good things going on.

David Hall [00:26:09]:
Right.

Ruth Andermatt [00:26:10]:
So it became, it became an extension of a way of life. Like I, I, I truly love seeing people rise. And what I've realized with time and wisdom is oh, that's coaching. I didn't know that's what it was before. I just did it and I've done it all the way along. Yeah.

David Hall [00:26:31]:
So from your LinkedIn page, you describe yourself as the coach for women who are done with the game. What are women leaders bringing to you that, that they are tired of or they're done with?

Ruth Andermatt [00:26:44]:
Well, what I'm, what I'm seeing a lot with women in leadership is they're conforming, they're doing leadership the way they've seen it or they think they need to, they need to come forward in a spec, you know, this a particular way when really they need to earn the right, they need to be solid, they need to do the primary mechanics like meet the numbers, you know, manage to deadlines but come forward in the way that they can operate. And what I'm realizing is a lot of women have been playing the game and it's costing them emotionally, physically and then they resent, oh well, I didn't speak up there, I should have spoken up there. It's become this place of well, who are you as a leader? And you walk into that room and you evaporate. You know it. There are a lot of women that go, well these guys. Or it's this, it's like, did you, did you step up? Were you really clear in there or did you evaporate? So a lot of women are done playing the game of disappearing when they walk into a room expecting that someone's going to tell them things or over justifying why they deserve the opportunity rather than going, I deserve the opportunity and I will speak into it. And if I don't get it, then that's okay too. Not making it into something much grander.

Ruth Andermatt [00:28:03]:
And that's part of the game. It's part of the game that's there's been some very awkward inter, excuse me, interpretations. So done playing that game of what, what lane am I in? Like choose a lane and live in it. And if you want to do the conformity, great, but don't double think and go, I should be able to do that. But you're living in the conformity lane. You actually want to live up to the way you can lead and how you want to lead. You actually need to take ownership in some other lanes and, and up to this point, you haven't been willing to do it. And when you do do it, and you do believe in it, the whole room rises.

Ruth Andermatt [00:28:43]:
Because there is a way that women lead that we don't get from men. There are a lot of men that come forward and lead from the masculine and feminine perspective. Not the male, female, but the masculine. You know, the masculine being the goals, objectives, KPIs, and the feminine being the community, the collaboration, the conscious conflict. It's not one over the other. We need both and we need that to be embodied. And I find many women that I work with, they've certainly mastered the, the constructive masculine side. And they also have these threads of what does it mean to actually hear every voice at the table, what does it mean to operate as a community, what does it mean for us to go forward as a team? And now learning to trust themselves.

Ruth Andermatt [00:29:29]:
And what I find with the women that I'm working with, they're thriving, they're enjoying it more and their teams are rising up and learning to trust themselves. And it's not about conforming and trusting themselves. It's trusting and bringing forward. Not from an entitled I deserve, it's from coming forward of I have this to offer and I can make sure that this is looked after. So it, it's a bigger opening and we really need it. We really need it because we've had a very one size of leadership for a long time.

David Hall [00:30:03]:
Yeah, so you told me before that you want to see more introverted leaders and you think we need more introverted leaders. What strengths do introverts bring to leadership? I mean, we've been talking about this, but let's, let's talk about it a little bit deeper.

Ruth Andermatt [00:30:16]:
I look at the introverted leaders I work with and the ones that I see out there, they have a way of respecting people in the room and hearing all of the comments at the table. And we're in a time where so much is under a time crunch. When a team comes together, it's like, pull it forward, let's get going. But we miss some very interesting points that could radically alter how a project comes together. And the introverted leader has the patience typically to listen to the thoughts that don't make its way to the room. And to me, when a team meets, if there are conversations that happen down the hall, at the coffee machine or in the elevator, you haven't had the real meeting, it needs to happen in the real meeting. And my experience has been introverts have a way typically of making space for people to feel safe and to share. And the introverted leader tends to listen to the alternative ideas and they don't go, oh, great, come on, David, let's pull that together.

Ruth Andermatt [00:31:25]:
We could add that. It's like, wow, tell me more about that, David. Where? How did you get to that? That all seems to take time, but I can see when that's invested up front. The trajectory of the team is massive. It's massive. People come together, it's solid, they've really flushed out possibilities and it works. There's a sweet African proverb that I return to a lot and it talks about, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

Ruth Andermatt [00:31:59]:
And going together can be a bit of a hassle because they need a bit more time, they need a bit of this, they need. Well, the introverted leader tends to be able to bring that forward and accommodate people stepping in. But it's not accommodate and be a pushover or a doormat. It's accommodate, draw a line and step forward. And like, I have people going, well, I can't do it. I'm really an introvert, you know, and mostly many of the introverts I deal with just don't want to talk to people. I go, choose talking to people on your terms. Choose one to one.

Ruth Andermatt [00:32:36]:
You don't have to do it every day. It just needs to be real and it needs to be a reflection of who you are. And it's this one particular client I work with and she's in a very powerful position and she doesn't like to speak up a lot. And she said, oh, I've come to understand the power of my questions radically transform where we go. I said, yeah, so you don't have to do all the talking. You just need to go, and. And David, what about that point there? And she goes, I never realized how powerful that is. I go, yeah, because you're not doing the talking, but you can certainly highlight, poke, expand.

Ruth Andermatt [00:33:17]:
And it's like, oh, that's not so hard. And then she gets to witness, well, how's it come together? And it's fabulous because her, her CEO just said to her, you're really rising up these days. And she isn't saying that much more. She's speaking into these places where normally she would have gone, oh, that's not important, I won't. It's like, yeah, speak up, speak up and out, because your thoughts are needed. And I see with so many introverts that are not rushing to fill the room with their words, being thoughtful and being able to say how did you get there? Should we consider something else? I work with a lot of engineers and a lot of accountants and it's. Which is hilarious because those are two fields. So out of my.

Ruth Andermatt [00:34:00]:
My wheelhouse tend to be a lot of introverts that work in that field. And when you have a room full of introverts and no one's speaking out it. There can be a bit of a log jam. So being able to trust speak up when to speak up and to trust that you might say something that's contraire or maybe out of the stratosphere compared to what they've listened to and that that opens up the next possibility. It's so very cool when people start trusting themselves and speaking out.

David Hall [00:34:34]:
Yeah. And honestly I think that this can be a cause we were talking about shyness earlier. It's. We need the introverts ideas, you know, because they are different. They so many things, you know, innovative and creative ideas have come from the unusual idea, you know, or you said out of the stratosphere. And you know, sometimes when we're thinking, well you know, this is unique, I don't think anybody will agree with this. That's the thing that we have to share.

Ruth Andermatt [00:35:06]:
Yeah, well. And the more unusual, the more unique. It helps flip the script. You know, it's not that one perspective is correct, it's being able to consider it from a variety of perspectives so that you can move forward going, yeah, we really have exhausted the possibilities that we can access here and move forward. But if we're rushing forward to just make a decision, it's amazing how you can get to the 11th hour and go, oh, we miss this whole piece. And now you're stranded, you're stranded. And not that extroverts don't have a good idea and not everybody falls into those camps as you were saying. But I do find the introverts have a way of having listened.

Ruth Andermatt [00:35:55]:
And then we'll add. And I work with a few groups now and it's like make sure you ask him. Make sure you bring her into the conversation. She probably won't speak up. So now as they lead they go and what have you got to share there, Ruth? I can see you thinking about that. How does that, how does that land for you? And then it opens up. So then we get this cultivating and creating together which opens up all sorts of possibilities. All sorts.

Ruth Andermatt [00:36:26]:
And we've got lots of things out there now that are reactions to look like everything else. It's like the more unique and authentic things can be now the more interesting it is. And that's what people are drawn to. That's what's appealing. It's like, I don't want more of the same. I'm curious to see what really appeals to you and why. Why it appeals to you and. And hear that come forward.

Ruth Andermatt [00:36:48]:
It's like, wow, I never considered that. Tell me how you got there. And like, these whole worlds open up and there's some fascinating thinking out there. Like, fascinating thinking.

David Hall [00:37:01]:
Yeah. And most teams are probably going to be made up of introverts and extroverts and what you're speaking of. It's just so important for leaders, whether they're an introvert or extrovert, to understand the dynamics of how. You know, maybe I'm in a meeting, I'm going to share what's most important to me. Maybe my extroverted colleague is going to share most everything that comes to their mind, and you just need to understand it. Like, for example, you said sometimes you might need to call on someone, hey, what do you think about this? Because they're not sharing or, you know, making sure they're prepared for the meeting, sending out agendas and things like that, that they can think ahead of time. Because often that's how introverts work best, is with a little preparation.

Ruth Andermatt [00:37:41]:
Oh, I think of this president of a company that I'd worked with and he'd had his general manager who just couldn't understand how to work with him. And I go, you realize he is a hardcore introvert and he would appreciate never speaking to you. Nothing personal, but he'd appreciate never to have to talk to you. And he goes, oh, I said, so if you could actually draft him points that he could read in advance of the meeting because he doesn't want to just have information thrown at him. He likes to take it in, he likes to consider it, and then he wants to have a conversation. Well, when he started doing this with the president, he said, oh, my goodness, I can't. I can't believe the difference in the discussions. I said, because you've learned how does he like to interact, and now you can have secondary conversations that.

Ruth Andermatt [00:38:30]:
That's appealing to him and it's fascinating to you and way more gets done. But yes, it's a bit more work to have to draft it out and send it in an email. But if we want him to be engaged, take the time. And now this is how he works with this person all the time. And, you know, it's interesting, the president hadn't learned of himself because as much coaching as we have done to be able to say to people, I would prefer if you just sent it to me in an email. It's also about helping people work with you, but that comes back to self leadership and self awareness. So it all takes time to evolve into all this.

David Hall [00:39:07]:
Yeah. And I love this. It's like sometimes you gotta understand what your leader needs. You know, it's not just about them understanding your needs.

Ruth Andermatt [00:39:14]:
Well, and as you know, each step up in an organization, the fewer people you have to have confidential conversations, and the higher up you go, the more people need you to be something. And certainly not soft or, you know, doubtful. Like, they need you to be more certain and more sure and more direct and more visionary. And yet realizing we are all people and we're all people on our way, and we have good days, and sometimes we have better days and sometimes not. But to be able to trust ourselves to say, hey, what's happening, David, I like, is this work for you the way I'm giving it to you? And how. How's this working? What do we want to talk about here? How do we want to get. Oh, once again, that takes a bit more time than just saying, I need this. Get it to me by then.

Ruth Andermatt [00:39:59]:
But when we can create that kind of dynamic and that comes into the flow of who are you? How do you operate? What's the ideal? You know, what's not the ideal? Then we can actually create a space of working together that's so intriguing for everybody. Yeah, so intriguing. Yeah.

David Hall [00:40:19]:
So I think an important topic is, you know, there's so many things that we're trying to do, but what's really important is to gain clarity, you know, about what's most important and how to do that. How do you help your clients when they. They need to gain some clarity?

Ruth Andermatt [00:40:36]:
Oh, that's a great question. It's a great question because it sounds so simple. Well, just get clear. Get it clear and do it. It circles back to do what you do. Do what you do intentionally. And notice how it landed. Did you get the results you were looking for? If not, then you have to take a look.

Ruth Andermatt [00:40:55]:
Were you clear on the message? Were you clear on the delivery? Were they ready for it? Well, there becomes this great gap, like in communication. I may have told you very clearly what we're looking for in this project, but if it didn't land for you, then I wasn't effective in my communication. So did you hear it? Do you need to see it in writing? Do you need to see it in a pie? Chart. But mostly as a leader. That clarity comes from noticing what am I attempting to do, how is it received? How is this person receiving it? Is there a difference? Am I noticing a consistent theme in patterns of where it's falling short short or where it's really hitting it out of the park? That kind of clarity, it's not so easy to look at because it's reflected in how the dog deals with you, how the kids, how your partner, how you. You are the only thing consistent in every aspect of your life. And I will guarantee you, if there's a pattern running in your life, it will show up everywhere. And I just had this fun chat with a CFO the other day and she's like, you said it would show up, Ruth.

Ruth Andermatt [00:42:03]:
She goes, well, I was out for dinner and I had this with the kids and then this stuff with the job. And I go, what's consistent? She goes, this is how I was showing up. And I go, that's how we get clear and that's how we modify. It's not about, you're a bad person, no one's broken. It's making sure that what you do is aligned with who you are and where you want to go. And we do a lot of things that undermine our, ourselves. We don't see it and then we blame it on somebody else. And life isn't meant to be that hard and it's not meant to be that much work, but we do make it a lot of work.

Ruth Andermatt [00:42:35]:
I, I, I'm, you know, I'm classic. I've learned a lot of that. It's, I'm here not because I've read some great books. I, I've had the experience of, well, that was, that was not one of your finest moments, Ruth. And, and then you go, oh, how might I modify that? Yeah.

David Hall [00:42:51]:
So as you're speaking, I'm just thinking of, you know, introverts, we have all kinds of different strengths. Of course we have some things in common. I think one gift that every introvert has is that gift of reflection. You know, we can, we're really good at thinking about things and you know, give yourself some time to do that. And you know, just all that you were describing, I think that introverts, you know, of course extroverts can do it too, but introverts are just really good at it's self reflection and thinking about, you know, if, if you give yourself

Ruth Andermatt [00:43:23]:
time to do it well, there's a fine edge there. You want to give yourself time but not get caught into the back eddy of reflection because you do want to reflect, but you don't want to be so reflected that you're now out of the. Out of the stream of life.

David Hall [00:43:39]:
Yeah.

Ruth Andermatt [00:43:39]:
And I always, I look at it because, you know, I can get a bit perfectionist, and if I would just get that right, and then you withdraw a bit more and I'll. I'll. I'll do that when. And I'll just kind of now it's harbored over here. And to me, I like, if you're in traffic and you need to change lanes, you keep driving. Okay. It's not that hard to change lanes, but if I'm at the curb parked and I have to re. Enter traffic, that can be a bit.

Ruth Andermatt [00:44:03]:
It's moving fast, it's moving erratically, it's raining, it's snowing, it's whatever it is. So self reflection is a powerful tool when used properly, and it can also undermine you. I love self reflection. You. I write about stuff. I got so many books and notes, and it's like, at some point, Ruth, take the step and powerful. And then it can also be a pattern that undermines you.

David Hall [00:44:32]:
Yeah, right. You just said at some point, you. You got to make yourself kind of a deadline. You got to say, at this point, you have to make a step. Definitely do your thinking. But you can't get trapped in overthinking.

Ruth Andermatt [00:44:45]:
Hopefully not. You can easily.

David Hall [00:44:48]:
Yeah, try not to overthink. Right. Oh, Ruth, this has gone by so fast, and I've really enjoyed this conversation. Is there anything else you want to share today?

Ruth Andermatt [00:44:58]:
I just want to share how special it is to follow those leads like you and I met because someone you had put on a podcast said to me, I think you're going to connect. We probably wouldn't have crossed paths. And I so appreciated that you were willing to have the conversation when I reached out. And now I look at us having this conversation and I go, you know, follow those little inklings. They don't need to make sense. And there are gems everywhere. And, you know, I look and go, we've had two amazing conversations. I know we'll have more.

Ruth Andermatt [00:45:33]:
And like, looking in this place that we're both very passionate about. You go, when we talk about it, it makes more room for people to think about it. And when they think about it, then they can talk about it. And I love the natural, organic rippling of information. There's a lot we can access fast and furiously. And when it comes in and we can drink it in at a pace that we can digest, there's a growth that becomes possible. And so that's my, my gem. Like, listen, reach out, say yes, say thank you, keep moving, take another step and do some stuff that's outside your comfort zone.

Ruth Andermatt [00:46:10]:
I haven't done a whole ton of podcasts and I wasn't sure where we'd go. And like, I loved it. You're super thoughtful, you're thorough and, and it's meaningful. Like, it's not just a, hey, why not? Let's just see where we roll. Like, I, I appreciate it that you sent me the questions in advance because it gave me time to think about it and go, what, what would. And it's like, don't get totally prepared. Like, let yourself be somewhat in the moment.

David Hall [00:46:36]:
So, yeah, we do good with preparation, but as you know, we didn't exactly follow those questions. It was just a guide for us and it's, it's really helpful for us to be prepared. So one more thing, where can people find out more about you and the great work you do?

Ruth Andermatt [00:46:51]:
Best thing would be is to find me through LinkedIn. I'll, I'll give you the, the link for you to add in, but it's Coach Ruth on LinkedIn. Ruth Elizabeth Andermatt. And know that I love, I love helping people rise up. And in this world we've got going on today, it's truly about being who you are, how you are and finding the people that resonate with that. And the more you do that, the more you stand in who you are, the more they can find you. And there's a lot going on and we need, we need genuine leaders and we need, we need genuine introverted leaders. Yeah, right.

David Hall [00:47:31]:
Well said on that and thanks again, Ruth.

Ruth Andermatt [00:47:34]:
Totally my pleasure. Take care.

David Hall [00:47:37]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out@daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:48:17]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.