Ep 271 - Owning the Room Without Raising Your Voice With guest Tammi Cail

Have you ever wondered how to make a powerful impact without having to be the loudest voice in the room? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall welcomes Tammi Cail—author, entrepreneur, and founder of the Steer Institute—to share strategies for introverts to own their presence authentically and effectively.

Listeners will uncover how to use strategic presence, set clear boundaries, and embrace neutral, confident communication that draws others in. Tammi Cail discusses her Steer Method, which focuses on maximizing your unique strengths, managing your energy, and excelling as a leader without sacrificing your natural inclinations. Key takeaways include practical tips for designing your calendar around your energy thresholds, mastering networking on your own terms, and understanding the value of speaking last and best.

Tune in to learn why substance can outshine volume, how to build meaningful relationships as an introvert, and actionable ways to thrive both professionally and personally—no loud voices required. Join us, discover the power of your quiet strengths, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/271

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Tammi Cail is a published author and Founder of The STEER Institute & the proprietary STEER Method. They help leaders solve the 'Visibility Gap' by building systems that make their work shine with Threshold Awareness and Efficient Outreach. Tammi believes in substance over volume and steering outcomes, and is happy to support others by honoring natural strengths while maximizing impact.

Get Tammi's Book - The Quietly Driven; The STEER Method for Strategic Presence and Outreach for Quietly Ambitious

Connect with Tammi - tammicail2017@gmail.com

Other books referenced in this episode:

• Introvert Power by Dr. Laurie Helgoe
• The 12 Week Year by Brian P. Moran and Michael Lennington

Transcript

Tammi Cail [00:00:00]:
With introverts, we tend not to look for that attention. Be loud, you know, stepping up and out in front of people. I think being neutral is that demeanor. So you can control our influence is a better word than control the outcome as well as a positive experience for both people. When you are neutral and your demeanor is calm, you're more approachable. There's some buy in for that confidence that you can can also demonstrate without talking a lot or are talking too much about something. There's always people we're drawn towards. So whether you're at a wedding or you're out for lunch at a restaurant, there's people, you can see that their demeanor and their capability of how they manage their body language and they mirror that with their tone of voice.

Tammi Cail [00:00:50]:
It's very welcoming and needs to be genuine.

David Hall [00:01:03]:
Hello and welcome to episode 271 of the Quiet Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host David hall and the creator of Quiet and strong dot com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced Normally. We will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Tammi Kail is a published author and founder of the Steer Institute and the proprietary Steer Method.

David Hall [00:01:45]:
They help leaders solve the visibility gap by building systems that make their work shine with threshold awareness and efficient outreach. Tammi believes in substance over volume and steering outcomes and is happy to support others by honoring natural strengths while maximizing impact. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Tammi. Tammi, it's so good to have you on today.

Tammi Cail [00:02:09]:
Thanks for having me.

David Hall [00:02:11]:
We are going to get into the great book that you recently released. Looking forward to that. But of course, first tell us a little bit about yourself.

Tammi Cail [00:02:18]:
Thanks David, for the question. I think I would say my journey began as I was transitioning from my previous profession, which was the nonprofit sector. So I began to have some growing awareness that what I largely referenced in the book was paying. What I would say is that introvert tax overextending this energy into the style of leadership that I felt that I was functioning in and amongst. So. So when I shifted into entrepreneurship and with book writing, publishing and working for myself, I couldn't stop seeing it. It was like a flashing neon sign to show how completely opposite that this was of how I functioned as an employee in management or upper level leadership. So what I mean by that is really that there was no visibility metric when I was reflecting on the types of scenarios that used to use a lot of time for me in my past role.

Tammi Cail [00:03:12]:
So that opportunity cost that I write about in the book was really compounding over time when I was noticing of how often I needed to engage while I was at work and how often those stolen hours were really so different. Different from how it is now as an entrepreneur to the day to day actions. Because now with having a real career cost as an introvert, when you're working on Monk's leadership and, and working amongst a lot of colleagues, it can be really tough. And it resonated with me when I switched going that's what we need is that steer method. We need to be very deliberate and decisive with how we approach our work because we tend to typically come into these systems or the style of our framework and we try hard. I think by nature the steer method really started when I shifted into that entrepreneurship and going, wait a second, I have control for my time. I can be strategic and started having noticeable change for outcomes.

David Hall [00:04:16]:
Yeah, I love it. We're going to get into all of that. How? You know, so often introverts feel like something's wrong. Like why are they feeling this particular way? And I think you nailed so many of those topics in your book. When did you figure out you were an introvert?

Tammi Cail [00:04:31]:
I like that question. I would say high school for sure. I knew it then, but I didn't embrace it. So I think what it was was that I played a lot of sports. I was really very involved in a lot of teams and a lot of social groups. So I probably presented very extroverted as a teenager. And I think those that knew me and know me still would think, oh, you were extroverted. Like you were into so many things, active schedule and amongst so many people all the time.

Tammi Cail [00:05:00]:
And then when I think I would prefer to arrive solo, I would practice. If I was shooting hoops, I would love to practice on my own. I would like to leave games instead of staying behind to sit around and talk or go out and have appies, maybe something like that. I like to be alone and I started to recognize that's really how I would recharge my batteries. So I used to do I'll date myself here with the 80s Yellow Sports Walkman, I think it was. I would just plug that in and off I go on my walk. So I think as a teenager I was managing it and not embracing it. So it would have been in my adulthood that I began to obviously start noticing it more, but then you start compensating for it.

Tammi Cail [00:05:46]:
So it's a little bit of that love hate. But I think in my 40s is really when I began to embrace it.

David Hall [00:05:52]:
Okay. Was there any particular resource or book that helped you embrace it?

Tammi Cail [00:05:58]:
There wasn't. And, you know, in fairness, there probably were a lot of resources. I think it's something that I didn't look into at the time because you just almost pivot and adjust and keep going. So I don't know if you have one that you would mention. Do you have one that you found?

David Hall [00:06:16]:
Yeah, there's many. But my favorite is introvert power by Dr. Lori Helgo. And it's really my takeaways were there is great power in being an introvert and about half of us are. Half the population are introverts. And she was on the show with her husband, Baron, so check out that episode.

Tammi Cail [00:06:38]:
I will.

David Hall [00:06:39]:
And he's an extrovert. So it was just such a good demonstration of the differences in the way we communicate and how, how we process the world. So it was really good. What's the strength you have because you're an introvert?

Tammi Cail [00:06:53]:
I think there's a lot. A little bit like you mentioned, I would probably note two. So I would. I would mention relational intelligence and also energy thresholds. And so with relational intelligence, I would think about, as an introvert, I think we're naturally gifted at noticing these little subtle gaps or these invisible little bits that happen when you're in conversation with somebody else or you're observing and just very noticeable when you see how others are interacting. I think the energy thresholds, which I'm pretty passionate about in the book and with the Stir Institute, is about how you design your calendar and looking at your energy thresholds. Because again, the structure that we've grown up with and typically work through is that you show up 4 hours, 8 hours, 12 hour shifts, however, that could look for somebody's role, responsibilities. And you go hard, you work smart, you work hard because you're dedicated and typically a pretty good person.

Tammi Cail [00:07:53]:
So with energy thresholds, I'm really looking at going, we all have peak cognitive times that are very exclusive for how we can apply them. And I'm pretty accountable to that, of course, with shifting into being an entrepreneur, because you need that diligence, for sure, how you structure your time and what you're aiming to achieve. And even with a family member. When I've helped them with some online schooling that they're doing, it's my niece. You'll hear other people's opinions of going, you should be coming in. You do it like a school day. And if someone's not effective to be doing it like a school day for eight hours, it's back to that energy threshold of maybe that person gets more done in three hours in the evening than they would if they were sitting for six or seven or eight hours a day. I think the energy threshold and not to talk too long about it is effective for sure.

Tammi Cail [00:08:46]:
Because I really think that the way I set mine up is that it's not even noticeable to other people. So there's no negative impact or feedback I get from people in my life saying, you really work a lot in the morning or I notice you work, you know, at certain times of the hours and you're not approachable or reachable for, for other periods of time. So I think it's quite effective when you start recognizing and then applying that.

David Hall [00:09:13]:
Yeah, I think that's key. Let's talk more about it. What do you do so you, you find more productive periods during the week or are you structured certain things on certain times and block off time for yourself? How does that all work?

Tammi Cail [00:09:29]:
I mean, I think it might be an industry term with this blocking when we block time. And I definitely jump on that wagon as well. It is really beneficial. I find it's also setting a specific time, which for me works out well on a Sunday, is to structure your week. I also like to do a shout out for books, but I think of that 12 week year and looking at that plan. So I do my quarterly plans for every 90 days. And then you really know what you're applying for your tasks. So that's really helpful when you get into the day to day of how you're using your time or you're getting distracted sometimes and then you apply this block time, three hours, four hours could be the case and you come out with your results.

Tammi Cail [00:10:16]:
So I don't want to say that I'm a morning person and not, you know, not good in the evenings because there are times where I'll go, whoa. Like I, I can do this, I'm energized. And I can go till 9:30 at night, which, which may not seem late for people, but there's also times where I'll go, I've gotta tap out at, at 6:30. I won't be effective and, and just honor it. That's okay.

David Hall [00:10:42]:
Yeah, I know early in my career I struggled with the idea. I felt like I needed to be available to all people at all times. And that just is not effective, you know, and finding those times where I could block off and be unavailable, as you said, to get some good work done, to get some good thinking done has really changed things for me.

Tammi Cail [00:11:04]:
And that's, I mean, again with. That's nice to hear that you've noticed it. And when we talk about boundaries and that availability like we know with so many different ways that people can reach us, the availability trap is a tough one to manage. But being clear and consistent at the beginning, then people know and also being neutral I find is really helpful because when we're neutral about it, there's really no emotion attached. We're not defensive, we're not trying to prove anything. We're quite neutral when we set our boundaries and clear communication so that people can understand. And we certainly know there's people that benefit more than others by give me all the information. How can I reach you? What times or what's the, what's the indicator for when I think I'll hear back from you? Because sometimes we make that assumption that is general courtesy because of how we do our work or we live our lives and, and just that check in with somebody else to understand is that, does that work for you? It's a bit of that loop for that clarity for them as well.

David Hall [00:12:12]:
Yeah, I like that idea. What's. Give us a little bit more of an example of how you would stay neutral in these kinds of situations.

Tammi Cail [00:12:22]:
It's a little bit with the presence. So with introverts we tend not to look for that attention, be loud, you know, stepping up and out in front of people. I think being neutral is that demeanor so you can control our influence is a better word than control the outcome as well as a positive experience for both people. When you are neutral and your demeanor is calm, you're more approachable. There's some buy in for that confidence that you can, can also demonstrate without talking a lot or are talking too much about something. There's always people we're drawn towards. So whether you're at a wedding or you're at a, you're out for lunch at a restaurant, there's, there's people, you can see that their demeanor and their capability of how they manage their body language and, and they mirror that with their tone of voice. It's very welcoming and needs to be genuine.

Tammi Cail [00:13:18]:
And I think, I think it is typically so I think it's really about that controlled, controlled capability, I say, of, of how you are with your body language and how you're speaking to others. It's a beautiful thing. I probably get pretty passionate about it, but it's a beautiful thing when people can make something land well and it's appreciated.

David Hall [00:13:42]:
Yeah. So, Tammi, you know, on this show we bust myths. What's a myth you want to bust today about introverts?

Tammi Cail [00:13:49]:
There's so many. And, and I know I've listened to some episodes and I'll hear someone speak and I'll go, yes, that's. Yep, that's one. That's one as well. I would say that I think the myth that introverts lack presence or they don't like attention. A little bit of a two in one there. If you, if you scapegoat for me on it. I think we know that people confuse volum with that influence.

Tammi Cail [00:14:11]:
So that loud laughter, loud talking, much like I mentioned earlier, it's what I call in the book, that expert presence. So owning the room with that calm, grounded demeanor, we, and I know for myself, like, it has nothing to do with attention. I don't think it's embarrassing or that we hide from it. We don't necessarily need to feel the outcome after that. We're charged by it. If there's recognition and then we say, let's go out and let's keep the day going or the night going. You win an award in your profession or you get some accolades, that's usually well received and we enjoy it. It's what it does afterwards.

Tammi Cail [00:14:50]:
And often I do observe with introverts, we're just comfortable hearing it, receiving it. Maybe it's a certificate or something, an award. And that feels great. And we're appreciative and that is satisfactory. We don't necessarily need to carry it on and, and keep going with it.

David Hall [00:15:11]:
Yeah, for sure. And again, none of us are. We're not all alike is what I'm trying to say. We're not all alike. So it is funny that people say that introverts don't like recognition because sometimes we need it.

Tammi Cail [00:15:25]:
Yeah, Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

David Hall [00:15:30]:
So, Tabby, I've been enjoying your book. Let me just read the whole title here. Quietly Driven the Steer Method for Strategic Presence and Outreach for the Quietly Ambitious. So tell us about your book. What made you decide to write it? What's the main message of it?

Tammi Cail [00:15:47]:
It's a book or a guide. I could say as well that I would have liked to have had access to probably before I wrote it. People learn A lot about a power map, identifying that Elite five strategy, looking at your vertical and your horizontal influence. I talk a lot about energy audits, which, which I've mentioned earlier, where are your best hours for your best output? The availability trap and much more. It's really to help introverts learn and apply strategic. And sometimes I can say that's an overused word maybe for myself, but it's very specific for the actions. So one example would be again, about learning how to speak last. So for those of us that feel we've been in boardrooms or that we have been amongst maybe team meetings, and we feel that talking in the circle, talking in the circle and we're thinking, well, we should say something because we're in management, or we should say something because we've got direct reports in the room and then we try to say something, or often we do because we likely would have leadership skills already if we're embedded in a role.

Tammi Cail [00:16:56]:
One of the exercises that I do through the STERE Institute, really helping with people, recognizing when the timing is for making decisions, when it's almost that exhaustion cycle of that conversation. And then you can come in and provide a little bit of be able to synthesize, really get a couple of points and become that anchor in the room. Instead of feeling that you need to open up the conversation, lead the conversation, it's back to that calm, grounded demeanor that we can sometimes lose a little bit because we feel that competition. And again, not to generalize. And you've done that well earlier. Just mentioning that we're all different. So just reflective from my own leadership style is to recognize that we don't always need to be the one talking. More often.

Tammi Cail [00:17:47]:
We can close off the meeting with really impactful language. And that's what I talk about as well through the book as well as through the STIR Institute.

David Hall [00:17:58]:
Okay, so tell us a little bit more. What is the Steer Institute? What is the Steer method?

Tammi Cail [00:18:02]:
The STERE method. So it's an acronym and some people really love acronyms. And other times people say, I don't need the acronym, I just need to know what it's about. So there's five pillars with the acronym. So the S is strategic selection, and that goes into choosing who and what basically gets your energy. The T stands for the threshold awareness, which is another passion one for me. So identifying your social. I call it a social red line.

Tammi Cail [00:18:30]:
It's understanding of how much you're putting into things until you start going now that cost me. It's almost that overextension of Saying yes to too many things or showing up in the rooms where you go, I don't need to be here. It would have been more impactful to deliver an email that's well crafted and thoughtful later or to send a manager or a direct report or a colleague that has interest and is energized by going, I want to go, what's this thing about? What's the speaker talking about? There's definitely opportunity for people to use those methods if that's not our preferred style. So threshold awareness is a big one for sure. Efficient outreach is one of the E's and then expert presence and then the R is relational intelligence. So expert presence I would comment on. That's a bit about what I mentioned earlier, really owning the room by speaking last and best under the efficient outreach with the Stir Institute. I definitely talk to people about the low pressure, high impact scripts.

Tammi Cail [00:19:36]:
So you have opportunity to have templates and downloads and also some one to one consulting if anybody needs that to talk about a live example in their work, personal life. But typically it's more for professional lens.

David Hall [00:19:51]:
Yeah. So what makes a great leader?

Tammi Cail [00:19:55]:
There are a lot of things that make a great leader, I think the highest, and I'm always just conscious not to go too, too long on, on some of the things I'm. I'm thinking about the highest level of character and the competence. So there's that buy in that we know isn't associated with a title. So when somebody has competence, it's. It doesn't matter what the title is for their role, responsibilities or, or sometimes how long you've worked with them, they've done the job. It's the integrity as well as the ability to influence others. I think those are very important traits of leadership. And a great leader is the architect really of systems as well as culture.

Tammi Cail [00:20:37]:
And they set and hold the boundaries that allow a team to do their best work. I've said a few things in there and I know you sort of started that with what makes a great leader, I think is how you worded it. So that high level of character as well as that competence, I really think it's required for having both. So the volume we know doesn't really seek or demand that attention. The influence though is really about that connection. I think many people can probably recall where they've been amongst people that they almost tune out somebody when they're talking quite a bit and then suddenly someone quieter speaks up and you lean in and you're excited. You're like, whoa, that's really, really good. So the volume, and we can see this in leadership, sometimes can feel forceful and loud.

Tammi Cail [00:21:27]:
And the beginning of my book, I talk about it with the car industry, just recognizing that that was the old days of people needing to shout over machinery and holler out instructions for people. And then of course, we're so adaptable and evolving all the time with our culture is that doesn't work anymore in most industries. Again, that's a bit generalized. But that influence as a, as a good leader is like a gravity, like it'll pull people together. And I'm sure, like yourself, we've worked for and with people that are just, just fantastic leaders.

David Hall [00:22:04]:
Yeah, for sure. So, you know, that's definitely another myth. You know, it's not about being the loudest in the room, being a great leader. It is crazy though, that plenty of people have that in their head that that's what makes a great leader. And so it's an important myth to bust here because it's just not true. And what do you think is a strength introverts have and that they bring to leadership?

Tammi Cail [00:22:29]:
I think it's that level of character again. And I really want to be cautious that I'm not meaning that, you know, a specific type of person has that or a specific type doesn't, because a lot of it is embedded in personal choice and conduct for how we are and how we manage our emotions and our behaviors and our decisions. But I think it's that level of character as well as that interest. Introverts typically, from what I can observe as well as note for myself, is that we really are quite attentive and with hopes that that's really recognized for others, that that is a benefit that we're looking to be attentive. We have interest in doing so. And that's part of that exchange of being respectful. We are intentive, we're curious typically. And that usually can be welcomed by information seeking and having a good conversation.

Tammi Cail [00:23:26]:
That high impactful one on one conversation with someone else. Did that answer well enough, David, for when you sort of opened up?

David Hall [00:23:34]:
Yeah, yeah, I think so. You also mentioned in your book, you know, the power with versus the power over. What does that mean? And I think that's related to leadership

Tammi Cail [00:23:47]:
as well, within the power over. Yeah, and that's almost a bit that traditional hierarchy. When I spoke about the car factory, and I certainly respectfully don't want to come across like any expert whatsoever or a historian that way. It was just such a great example for me when I was writing to think this served a purpose this power over hierarchy that people needed to be heard because it was loud and noisy and you need a shout out and you need that fast demand and that activity. People would comply that way and maybe didn't even think about it as much as we would. Maybe today of going, that was really loud or they really are yelling at me a lot today because they're doers and they're getting the. The work done. The power with is really important to me about the quietly driven leader because it's that shared energy when we're demonstrating it and again, we're modeling it.

Tammi Cail [00:24:44]:
It's that collective capability. So power with is really in my mind about activating other people and their strength. I don't want to be cliche by saying like steering the ship and everybody's rowing. Sometimes I get these visions in my head as I'm talking. There'd be a lot of analogies to throw in there. But the power with is something that can have that natural effect because it comes from such a good place. And then it's that almost again, natural implementation because you just eagerly accept and allow and contribute and that just gets to be that bigger circle of who's around you and who's on your team. Power with again.

Tammi Cail [00:25:29]:
And I'm sure you as well as many listeners. It's very noticeable when you see people in leadership approach it that way. Generating ideas. What are the thoughts, inclusion like including people in the conversation and then when you're coming to that resolution, being able to have really strong satisfaction that others were like, I feel good about this. It's not just the one voice that's stating everything.

David Hall [00:25:56]:
Yeah. And as leaders, likely we're going to have both introverts and extroverts on our teams. How do we make sure that every voice is heard?

Tammi Cail [00:26:06]:
I've worked with some just incredible people that are definitely extroverted. And I'm smiling a lot when I think about it. It's a pretty cool thing to see an extrovert in action. And again, that energy of maybe when we're tapping out of something and felt good about what we contributed or how we showed up. Extroverted people, colleagues and leaders are onto the next thing and they're still generating that interest and enthusiasm. I think workplaces in general and probably in our personal lives, we absolutely can lean into having all different types of styles of that communication and that approach. It can be really, really fun to be around colleagues that are extroverted. And there's a lot of people that come to mind for me now and of Course I do have a pretty big smile.

Tammi Cail [00:27:00]:
How they do they work, they enjoy the work, how they actually proceed doing the work, how they think about it and how, how they deliver.

David Hall [00:27:08]:
Yeah. And you also write about the difference between performance and navigation. What does that mean, navigation?

Tammi Cail [00:27:16]:
I mean that, that sometimes can feel like a term that we use a lot as well. In today's environment, navigation is being very strategic. So really applying things that will, will work very deliberate. We know when we navigate, like with the Steer Institute and relational intelligence, it can also talk about how we navigate conflict. So those of us that could be emotional or those of us that feel like we are reactive, then we, you know, maybe feel hurt if someone is stating something or someone's too busy for a question or something didn't land well. In the steer method, we really talk about the motives and what's driving that for somebody. Sometimes it's one, I'll use an example. It's the competence motive.

Tammi Cail [00:28:03]:
So when we're working with each other, it's the competence. It's about feeling capable and respected for that expertise. And sometimes when we're thinking about conflict or how we're navigating a tough conversation, when we can look and consider what's the motive, like what would be a bit of that rationale behind it that just takes everything else out of it. And you can apply and be very strategic again and apply some really easy to follow tactics or strategies that will land well for both people. Feels good doing so and then it feels good afterwards as well, which is really that win, win that you can do it, start doing it more often and start really feeling confident with the outcome.

David Hall [00:28:51]:
Yeah, yeah. You have a chapter on conflict in your book. Do you have any more to say about conflict, how we go get through it?

Tammi Cail [00:29:00]:
Yeah, I think I've used that word neutral in the past. And so I know for my own style I'm quite adaptable. And I, I approach things very naturally and very naturally in the way that I observe what's happening for somebody else. And I'm very comfortable checking in with somebody else because when you maintain a neutral vibe with that, it is a benefit for everybody and it typically lands quite well for people because I am genuinely interested in people, making sure people are okay. And that doesn't mean that you're, you know, overstepping and you're, you're checking on things that you shouldn't be. It's really just a really significant quick question, slowing your body down, making that eye contact and checking in with somebody and the motives behind things Sometimes aren't recognized. So when we do do talk about it and understand like, like the competency that when someone's offended or somebody got upset about something, when we know what's happening, what we believe is happening underground, be comfortable to kind of have that conversation. And I don't want to say a statistic because I don't have it, but I mean, when I start to say 99% of the time it's not about you, like it's not about us, I think we're all on our own journey.

Tammi Cail [00:30:27]:
And it's that respectfulness to know that's what's happening. It's just not typically about us. And then when it is, if you get that feedback, it's that accountability. Understand it, hear it, you know, be receptive of hearing that. Because if that's someone's experience, then you want to provide that opportunity for them and get some resolution, see what will work best.

David Hall [00:30:52]:
Yeah, I think that's so helpful because we really do need to have conversations because so often we're telling ourselves stories about the other person, which is pro. May not be true.

Tammi Cail [00:31:04]:
Yeah. And I think sometimes, like, whether that's a bit of human nature or the environment, sometimes, you know, it's that if you want to say that, you know, someone's having a bad day kind of term, but when we come across things where there's genuine care, and I always say that's a responsibility, I believe in community, we have genuine care towards one another, then it can be welcomed and genuine is an important one. Now when I think of saying that, because it doesn't. It doesn't help many people if we're not genuine. So. So I think for listeners and, and myself included, is that, you know, let's be genuine. And that works best.

David Hall [00:31:46]:
Yeah, absolutely. So thinking of like the traditional networking event can make a lot of introverts nervous. You write about networking. What's your approach to networking?

Tammi Cail [00:32:01]:
Yeah, networking can sometimes have that love hate because of course people will be like, oh, good, I get a few days off because I'm going out of town for a conference or good, I get to put auto reply on my email and head out. And then there's times where I know for myself being in different conferences and hundreds of people, maybe 30 people, maybe 200 people. And then you have the booth and set up and the grab bag and the goodies. And some people genuinely like, they just love that environment. They like to walk around to see new people and they feel energized by it. And then there's Myself for sure, the type of person that will go for obligation and go, I need to hear the keynote speaker or I need to make sure I get this as a takeaway. And later you're already thinking, I think I've said before, you're already thinking, if you stay in a hotel, of what are you going to order in for your room service? And somebody else, another colleague might be saying, where are we going to go after this? And you're going, we're here till 7:30. Like I'm going back to the hotel room.

Tammi Cail [00:33:06]:
It's different, different pace for people. And again, I love it when I'm with extroverted people that have that different pace. But networking, I think how you opened up with that question is that I'm not here to say people should scapegoat or get out of things. I'm certainly not going to be spearheading that you should go against policy or you should make up a half lie or half truth to get out of something. What I talk about in the book as well as the Stir Institute is helping people find the best way to network. So instead of if it has to be a gathering or a big event, instead of that and collecting business cards or scanning QR codes, it could be that somebody else in your organization thrives as well as excels at the outcome of meeting people and connecting on places or things that they need to do. And for someone else, that doesn't work that way. Introverts, again, not to be generalized, I'll say for myself is that I started recognizing there's far more benefit than going to these functions to figure out and identify who are my top three or my top five people.

Tammi Cail [00:34:20]:
What's the need? What's the want? What do I need to understand or learn about and find a way that works well that's beneficial for both to meet or have a conversation. So that typically could be through email, setting up a calendar invite and with a bit of an intro. So it's that preparedness to be considerate and provide value as well when you're reaching out to someone. Because sometimes when we land with an email, someone else can receive it as going, oh boy, like now that's on their mind or their plate to go, I gotta think of a reply or I don't have time or I don't know who this person is and if we can contribute something of value. I often say with networking, maybe there isn't the takeaway. Maybe that's what's opening up the gate. We email, provide some information or something that we thought for consideration. Happy to pass this along if it might be of interest for you.

Tammi Cail [00:35:17]:
Take good care. Congratulations. Being a keynote speaker have something that again wraps it up to show typically I find that people will be responsive even if it's just a quick little. Appreciate that. Thanks very much. I think there's some genuine relationship building when we do more one to one. And I found really good results doing that.

David Hall [00:35:40]:
Yeah. And definitely it's funny you're mentioning business cards and I had a guest on a while back and she talked about, you know, she was dreading this event. She, she went in and she did it. She got a bunch of business cards because, you know, she bounced around from person to person like we think is expected. And then she got home and she had a fire going and she threw him in the fire because she realized this really wasn't effective for me.

Tammi Cail [00:36:09]:
Yeah, there is. And I can think of someone I've worked with that's extroverted and, and, and just thrive going to functions and, and we could be at the same function and our takeaways are what we would, you know, be able to offer to colleagues or at a little bit of a meeting afterwards were completely different. I would very noticeable to me that I would think, oh, I spoke with, you know, so and so and we at length had this beautiful conversation and understanding about the development of maybe it's a program deliverable or what the need was to service in their community. And I get into the impact of the story and, and the why and the other person's like not just not disregarding that one bit. They're just absolutely delivering a whole different story of who they've talked to and maybe more with the numbers or whatever that could look like for them. But there were times where I could smile and think we were at the same thing amongst the same people and very, very different and they just loved it. And I'm not saying for myself, even when I think of attending things absolutely enjoyable and very appreciative in my past work history of having the opportunity to be a guest and an attendee. I think there's huge value in that.

Tammi Cail [00:37:28]:
It's just a recommendation for people that are listening is to be okay and be curious of is there another approach? And is there once you identify your few people that you think you need to hear from or speak to, there's just lots of opportunity to do it a different way.

David Hall [00:37:48]:
Absolutely. And that's the thing. And I like how you said the extrovert's way wasn't wrong. It's just different. I. I've been to a networking event with an extroverted friend and watched her just effectively for her bouncing around and meeting lots of people, trying to meet everyone. And I've also realized for me it's going to be very draining but also not effective. I just like you're stating what's my goal.

David Hall [00:38:17]:
You know, if I have one to two really good conversations, maybe my goal is met, you know, and more effectively. And that's the whole point of this show. Whether we're talking about leadership or networking, we do our best when we live authentically and use our strengths and our gifts and let other people use theirs as well. So outside of events, is there other ways that you like to network?

Tammi Cail [00:38:44]:
I mean, there's probably always going to be emerging new ways to network and, and I'll be truthful with saying that I don't pursue or seek out new ways. I just lean into my natural tendency of these one on ones and, and so I just want to really honor that. And that's back to energy threshold, but a personal preference as well. It's the one on ones for me. I probably would say I hope they don't ever go out of style. It's the, it's the one on ones because I think it's just that genuine piece of being around somebody we know going through Covid. Of course, all the changes we had were some, some of us might have just thrived or loved it, thinking we work from home more. We're not amongst a lot of people.

Tammi Cail [00:39:30]:
And then of course, others really had a tough go with it. The one on ones I would certainly hope don't ever, ever fade. Fade away. How about for yourself? Is there a specific way or.

David Hall [00:39:42]:
Or networking? Yeah, just, you know, it is absolutely correct because another myth that we bust is introverts don't like people and that's just not true. We absolutely do. We love our friends, family, we love collaborating with people at work. And often it is that one on one that is the most effective for us. You know, really connecting with someone, you know. And one way I network is this podcast. I've met so many great people like yourself through doing this podcast. So there's definitely ways of networking, whether it's an event, you know, that you can do as an introvert, that will be very effective and there's ways outside of events that you can do and just do it and what works for you and don't compare yourself to somebody that has a different set of gifts.

Tammi Cail [00:40:34]:
Great. Already. I was going to mention, like and which we both know there's a lot of things in the world and our environment that are already noisy and busy for us or that we have to try more, try harder, whether that's nutrition and health or, you know, a multitude of things that we, we probably recognize and go, ah, I could try a bit more, you know, better cutting sugar, whatever that could be. I really think being an introvert or being yourself maybe more so than being an introvert, like when you've said being authentic is not something we need to try harder or differently, it's something we can show up for and be consistent with and be proud of. If we're good people, which I think we all are, we can be proud. And so even that earlier question of when I, when I found in high school thinking I was an introvert, but I think when you mentioned, like, when did you embrace it or how did you embrace it? And it's like I didn't back then. And it takes so long sometimes, which can be, can again to reflect on thinking, I wish it hadn't taken so long. But once somebody gets to where they are, be comfortable, be confident and be well, which is, I think, what we should want for one another.

David Hall [00:41:50]:
Absolutely. Tammi, we've talked about a lot of great things today. Is there anything else you want to add?

Tammi Cail [00:41:57]:
No, there's nothing else I want to add. I probably would just round us off with the Stir Institute, which is an online platform. And so certainly people could look at that as well as the book, which I'd be open to if we can pass on my email. Certainly open to providing that at no cost. If anyone had an interest of having a peek through the book, I could email them a PDF and they could have that if they like as well. Thanks, David, for just asking if there was anything additional.

David Hall [00:42:25]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I will add that to the show notes.

Tammi Cail [00:42:29]:
Sounds good.

David Hall [00:42:30]:
All right, thanks again, Tammi.

Tammi Cail [00:42:32]:
Thank you very much. Take good care.

David Hall [00:42:34]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website.

David Hall [00:42:50]:
This free assessment will give you a

David Hall [00:42:52]:
brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to davidandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.