Ep 279 - Career Advancement and Authentic Leadership with guest Maya Sharfi

Have you ever wondered how to advance your career while staying true to your authentic self? In this insightful episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall welcomes career and leadership coach Maya Sharfi to explore how professionals – especially introverts and women in leadership – can step confidently into senior roles, negotiate life-changing raises, and build sustainable, fulfilling careers.

Listeners will learn how to identify and leverage their unique strengths, overcome internal and external barriers to advancement, and navigate the promotion process with clarity and purpose. Maya Sharfi shares practical strategies for tackling networking in a way that fits your personality, embracing your own leadership style, and moving beyond self-doubt to achieve meaningful results.

Tune in to discover how you can advance in your career, develop your leadership skills, and truly enjoy the process—no matter where you start. Embrace who you are, learn from real-world examples and thoughtful advice, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/279

Maya Sharfi helps high-achieving women—many of them introverts—step into senior leadership roles, negotiate life-changing raises, and build careers that are both successful and sustainable. While she identifies as an extrovert, she has spent years partnering closely with introverted leaders, helping them leverage their strengths to advance, increase their visibility, and navigate promotions with confidence. She is the founder of Build Yourself, where she has coached clients to land executive promotions, secure $40K–$100K salary increases, and lead powerfully—without overworking or changing who they are.

Connect with Maya: Website | LinkedIn

Transcript

Maya Sharfi [00:00:01]:
And I think thing that's in common with my mom's tip to ask people about themselves is that when you're focused on yourself, this is a big thing I work on with clients who struggle with people pleasing. Because when you want to say yes all the time to people and you're people pleasing, you think it's about the other person, but it's really about how they're going to perceive of you. And so when you take the energy and the attention and the focus off of you and onto them, what are they here for? What do they need? What's their story? It's more absorbing, it allows you to be absorbed and it takes your attention off of fear of judgment, fear of how you're going to be perceived. And naturally you end up making a better impression.

David Hall [00:00:48]:
Hello and welcome to episode 279 of the Quiet Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host David hall and the creator of quietandstrong.com. this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Maya Sharfi helps high achieving women, many of them introverts, step into senior leadership roles, negotiate life changing raises, and build careers that are both successful and sustainable.

David Hall [00:01:35]:
While she identifies as an extrovert, she has spent years partnering closely with introverted leaders, helping them leverage their strengths to advance, increase their visibility and navigate promotions with confidence. She's the founder of Build Yourself where she has coached clients to land executive promotions, securing 40 to $100,000 salary increases and lead powerfully without overworking or changing who they are. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Maya. Maya, it's so good to have you on today.

Maya Sharfi [00:02:11]:
I'm so glad to be here.

David Hall [00:02:13]:
All right, we're going to get into the great work you do. Let's start with just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Maya Sharfi [00:02:17]:
Yeah, so I'm a coach, a career and a leadership coach, and I specialize in working with women at the leadership level who want to move to the next level either through a promotion or finding the right next job or boosting their leadership skills.

David Hall [00:02:31]:
Cool. And how did you find your passion for that type of work?

Maya Sharfi [00:02:35]:
Yeah, I've Been involved with women's issues probably since middle school. And when I was in grad school, there was a exciting campaign that got kicked off to help. I went to grad school for architecture, for landscape architecture, Architecture. And I was part of a campaign to help women get recognized by the Pritzker Prize, which was a prize that had a history of recognizing the men in male, female, collaborating couples. And so that was really exciting. And there was a lot of momentum in the women in design group. And I pitched the dean of students that we should have a boot camp for helping women address internalized bias, internalized obstacles. And she said, yeah, sounds great.

Maya Sharfi [00:03:16]:
So I started teaching it there's. Started teaching it at a local industry group. And then people started asking me to coach them. And it's funny because my mom is actually a. She's a social worker, and so she's therapist. And I remember when I was probably in my late teens, early 20s, thinking, talk for a living. Talking doesn't make, like, produce anything. It's real work.

Maya Sharfi [00:03:38]:
And then I went to design school, and then I realized that the work that just lit me up the most and that I just. It felt like my work to do here was coaching people. And so, you know, it's funny because I ended up doing something very similar to my mom and real. And, you know, coming to realize, oh, yep. Talking to people does actually change things. All right.

David Hall [00:03:58]:
Yeah. I love that you found the work that let you up, and that's what you're doing for other people, helping them find the work that lights them up. That's. That's what's so key, you know, using our gifts and our strengths and finding that passion. So you are an extrovert. And I'm actually really looking forward to this conversation because we talked before, and it's these kinds of conversations that actually really help shed a light on why these conversations are even important. And. And you are an extrovert, but you work with a lot of introverts, and you have a really great understanding of what some of the differences are, what some of the strengths are, and that's.

David Hall [00:04:37]:
That's where it's powerful, when we can see, oh, okay, this is a thing. It's not something we can just change, but it's something we can understand. And some of the best conversations, like, I had business partners. He was an extrovert, she was an introvert, but they really understood each other, and they worked so well together, and. And that kind of thing.

Maya Sharfi [00:04:59]:
Yeah. So I am, like you said, I'm an extrovert. But I'm an extrovert who I partner often with introverts. I work with a lot of introverts. And I think that just being a career coach and being very interested in what drives people, a big focus of mine is what are your strengths and skills and then how do we maximize them? Because you're going to feel happier and more alive and also move farther in your career when you're using your strengths rather than just trying to cope with or, you know, fix your weaknesses all the time. And so, you know, I think one of the big challenges that we have is that there's a lot of social messaging that tells us we, we should be different. I know, and we're probably going to talk about this today. There is so much bias against introverts that they're not leaders.

Maya Sharfi [00:05:42]:
You're not visible enough. You should speak up more, which is really just a mode of impact. But it's not the only way to make impact. There's ways to be a leader that do not involve speaking up. And I think about this a lot because I think sometimes we internalize our style and think that there internalize shame about our style and think that there's something wrong with it. And so I remember when I was learning to be a designer, I had this friend and she was a very close friend. We sat like back to back in our design studio and she was a classic introvert, brilliant. And her work was amazing.

Maya Sharfi [00:06:18]:
And she would sit down and create these really amazing, strategic, thoughtful, intricate, beautiful designs. And I was so jealous of her because I thought there's something wrong with me. Because what I would do is, is I would do a little sketch or do maybe 20 minutes of research or 30 minutes of research and I'd get stuck or I would get what I thought was stuck. And so then I would go around talking to people in the studio and all of a sudden I'd have my aha moment and then I'd come back and I'd draw my next 20 minute thing. And that was my process. And I thought something was wrong with it because I thought, you know, I'm supposed to be this creative genius off alone, probably wearing all black, looking very serious and you know, like generating my brilliant ideas for my brain and talking to other people is not real design. Like, that's not what it's supposed to be, right? Like, are you using other people and knowing, you know, I wasn't reading the books that I'm reading now. I don't know what I, what I know now about psychology, personality styles, but it took me a while to finally claim, no, that's actually my creative process.

Maya Sharfi [00:07:17]:
Some people actually look at my process, and they're jealous. They're like, how did it looks like? You know, she had one in one plus one and got to, like, 7200. How did she do that? How did she have that creative leap? And it's just different. Different thinking styles, different ways that we solve problems. And so I think we spend a lot of time carrying around shame that we should be different than we are. We've got messages from parents, from society, from. I mean, I probably picked this up from, I don't know, like, Atlas Shrugged, which. Like, I don't even aspire to be that, you know, that designer and stuff.

Maya Sharfi [00:07:48]:
Like, somehow it's like I'm supposed to be on a mountaintop generating my creative ideas by myself, right? And it's like, if we can drop those perceptions and, you know, it's almost like, keep your eyes on your own page. Like, what about my thinking style does work? What about it is unique? What about it delights me? Right. What about the way that I motivate people or have a team achieve a result that's unique to me, is actually amazing and might be the perfect thing for these people. Right. We spend time, if we can spend time looking at what works about our style versus what doesn't work, I think that's where the huge leaps happen for us in our careers.

David Hall [00:08:23]:
Yeah, I love that that's so key to all these conversations. And it's interesting that you were jealous of the other person's style. And a lot of times it is the other way around. And it is just a matter of how we process things. And I always say, you know, I've been in situations where everything has to be brainstormed by the group. Right. Sometimes that works for me, and sometimes just like the person you were describing, I do really well with coming up with things when I have a little space to myself, you know, And I. I want people to acknowledge that, you know, both are important.

David Hall [00:09:04]:
And in your case, yeah, your strength is going back and forth with other people and generating ideas that way. And neither is right or wrong. They're just different. And, you know, we. We shouldn't be jealous. We should just be understanding. You know, like, hey, Maya, you know, maybe I'm working with you, and I just, you know, need to acknowledge sometimes when you need to talk things out or maybe you're working with me and, you know, hey, David needs a little space to think about this thing. So, yeah, that's so key.

David Hall [00:09:32]:
That's. And that's one of the key differences is, is how we process information internally versus externally. And again, I always say most of the time, because like I said, sometimes I, I am going to want to brainstorm and, and think it, think it out loud. But a lot of times I'm going to really want to take some time and space for some things.

Maya Sharfi [00:09:52]:
Yeah. And, and I think we spend a lot of time thinking we should be someone that we're not instead of getting. I mean, it's such a. Can you imagine spending a whole professional life liking yourself, approving of yourself, loving your process. Get it. Being excited about your process, not defending your process with defensiveness. But like, oh, how great is it that. That we did it this way? Right.

Maya Sharfi [00:10:14]:
Oh, I don't know if we could have gotten here if we didn't do it this way versus that way. I mean, it's just, wow, right? What a different, different legacy. We'd have experience. We'd have.

David Hall [00:10:24]:
Yeah. What's another strength you have? Because you're an extrovert.

Maya Sharfi [00:10:28]:
Yeah. So for me, one of the things that I am very good at doing is producing unlikely results. And like, this happens a lot to my clients as well. Like, for example, let me give you an example. I have a client who is. Who was laid off. She works. She worked for, let's say she did international humanitarian work.

Maya Sharfi [00:10:46]:
And there's been a lot of shrinkage in that sector because of federal government. Government. There's a big narrative in her industry that there's no work, there isn't anything. There are no jobs. You're going to be competing against everybody else who was in this sector to find, let's say, if you're moving into the nonprofit sector. Right. Or to domestic. Nonprofit.

Maya Sharfi [00:11:07]:
But in the last six to eight weeks, she's had two potential job offers. And I. So I think sometimes we take in the dominant message about our time. Oh, they don't promote people unless they, they have this style. Oh, there's a slowdown. Oh, all the jobs are going to be taken by AI. Oh, right. We, like, take in these dominant messages.

Maya Sharfi [00:11:29]:
And for me, one of my skills and strengths is I am very, very good despite the dominant message of making something happen. So I'll give a couple examples. I. Okay, so here's kind of a funny one. So I, I paint. It's one of the things that I do for fun. And about a two or three years ago, I got very excited about, I want to sell my first painting. Not that I want to be a full time artist.

Maya Sharfi [00:11:52]:
But for me I want my quality to have improved so much that this is like my work is salable and I will know that if somebody buys it. And so I started just taking action towards it. I started sending text messages to friends who I knew were involved in, in like artsier scenes and do you know anything about selling work? I'm really interested to. Is there anyone you could connect me to? I sent them some photos of my work. I just started kind of taking first actions, right, first actions towards this. And you know, I had a couple of leads. I actually didn't even follow them. I have someone who offered who's a, who's a.

Maya Sharfi [00:12:26]:
She's actually a friend I went to college with and she's a professional artist now. And she's like, yeah, let's definitely talk. I'm in galleries, I'd love to talk two years later, three years later, haven't followed up. But a couple weeks later, maybe six to eight weeks later, I had been trying out somebody in my industry in the coaching industries program and it wasn't the right fit for the time and for what I wanted to work on. But I sent her a email and I said, hey, thank you so much for opening up this open house month. I really admire what you do. It's not the right fit for this reason but I wanted to let you know I've been taking your post certification training that was included in my certification. Slowly, over a couple of Fridays I listen to it when I paint.

Maya Sharfi [00:13:06]:
Actually here's the painting that I, that I've been working on. I think of it, let's change her name just for anonymity. I think of it as the Carol painting. And I sent her this email and she sends back an email. She says, oh my gosh, I love it. Would you be willing to sell it? So I quickly researched how much you should sell your art for. I responded and I sold my first painting. And later on, maybe I don't know, two or three days later I went on her website and realized that my very watercolory, very water based media abstract painting style was really, really similar to her branding, her website branding.

Maya Sharfi [00:13:40]:
And I think what happened was that I was, I probably had gone on her website to sign up for her program and maybe had taken it in subconsciously. Then later on when, you know, in the course of doing normal things, I said, oh, this isn't the right program for me but thank you so much, I'm going to send you this email like consciously I didn't think, oh I'm going to sell Carol a painting. But I think subconsciously my brain was making these connections. Oh, Carol has an interest in this. Oh, painting. And I just entered my painting and I think what happens when you are willing to believe that something's possible, even if you have a lot of evidence that says that it isn't you to be, to sell in galleries you have to be a full time artist. You need to have a platform, you need to have a this, you need to have that. When you're willing to say, you know, this could be possible and I'm going to take some action towards it, all of a sudden you, you trigger something called your reticular activating system, which is a, is a, it's a system in your brain that scans for significance.

Maya Sharfi [00:14:36]:
So you know, you're walking down the street. If you have a dog, you're going to notice dogs. Right. If you're thinking about buying a dog, you might notice the different breeds. Right. It's like what, what you take in and assign significance to. And I think what happened is I, I activated that by starting to take action and then it started working for me in the background. And so, you know, I got this selling my first painting and my clients have those results all the time as well and they feel so surprising to them.

Maya Sharfi [00:15:01]:
And I'm like, I think this is just basic psychology, so very cool.

David Hall [00:15:06]:
And then what's a strength that you've noticed from an introvert that you've worked with?

Maya Sharfi [00:15:12]:
Yeah, so I think introverts are, can oftentimes be more attuned to the elephants in the room, the things that are unsaid. And so sometimes they're picking up dynamics that other people aren't picking up. I also think that they like, if we think about it, groupthink sometimes does produce the same kinds of answers over and over. And so oftentimes introverts produce divergent answers that come at the problem from a different angle. And sometimes that can help us get unstuck or sometimes there's assumptions baked into how we've been trying to solve a problem that aren't obvious to the people solving the problem. And introverts sometimes can see past those things and can kind of either break a stalemate or keep us from choosing a solution that's actually not going to produce the results or it's the obvious way to get to the results.

David Hall [00:15:59]:
Yeah, yeah, that's brilliant. So when we talked before, Maya, you said that you were, or at least you were a shy extrovert and I, I, I want to dive into that a little bit. Because a lot of times people think that introversion and shyness are the same thing. And a big part of this show is, no, they're not. And I also say if you are shy, there's things that you can do to work with that or overcome it. How have you worked with your shyness as an extrovert?

Maya Sharfi [00:16:27]:
Yeah. So I think it was two things for me. So for me, my shyness is that I feel nervous about meeting new people. I feel probably fear of rejection that they're not going to like me. Like, I'm very focused on me and myself and how I'm going to be perceived. That was a big thing, especially for me in high school. And I would say the thing that changed everything for me. So my mom is a mega extrovert.

Maya Sharfi [00:16:49]:
And I think she probably and is not shy at all, very outgoing, and I think she probably maybe pushed me a little bit too much as a kid and didn't accept that, like, okay, it's okay to be shy. So I felt a lot of shame about it. But what she did that really helped me see things differently. That, like, I feel like there was a sea change for me in late high school. But she said, maya, you know, everybody's just thinking about themselves. Like they. All they want to do is they want to talk about themselves. And so all you have to do is ask them a question.

Maya Sharfi [00:17:18]:
And, you know, like, and for me, it was this click because it meant, oh, wait a second, when I'm being shy, I'm focusing on myself. How are they perceiving me? How are they going to evaluate me? How are they judging me? And that meant that I was being very self oriented instead of zooming outwards and thinking about the other person. And so just ask them a question. Gave me a quick way to take the focus off of me and being judged and how I was being perceiving perceived. And it was like, people really do like to talk about themselves. And so it was a way to get started. And I think the second thing that has been a fit is that I just. I think once I learned that skill, the obstacle I ran into is that I really hate small talk because I think it's just very boring.

Maya Sharfi [00:18:01]:
Like, I really don't want to know where you live, what you do, what your. How many siblings you have. It's just like, irrelevant to me. Like, it's just, I don't know, like, it's funny because my mom loves that stuff. And I'm like, okay, they have seven. Like, they have four siblings versus two, what's the difference? Right. And so I found my version of questions to ask that get to deeper territory that's actually more interesting for me without being like, tell me about your deep trauma as a child. That's an awkward small talk.

Maya Sharfi [00:18:30]:
But like my favorite is, oh, are you watching or reading anything interesting lately? And I like it because sometimes if you say, if you are you reading something, people that think, oh, I should be reading more than they feel judged don't want that. But watching or reading anything interesting gives somebody a chance to share something that they're thinking about that's not just kind of personal biodata. And it allows you to get into more ideas driven conversation which or mean it for me. And meaning can be made of different things, but for me, something more meaningful in that means that I don't dread the small talk because I worry that we're just going to have to have these boring conversations until somehow, magically we actually talk about real things.

David Hall [00:19:08]:
Yeah. And I, I love that because mostly what I hear, you know, it's more like you described your mother that, you know, she loves the small talk from extroverts that that's interesting that you don't and that you had to come up with some strategies. What's another strategy for it? You know, and with introverts, there's a couple different things going on. Sometimes just like you described, we just really don't. We want to go deeper. We want to go into deeper things sometimes because not understanding your introversion and that you think first and all that good stuff, sometimes you're not good at it. And so both of those things can be kind of against small talk. But we have to start somewhere and building relationships.

David Hall [00:19:51]:
So what's another key you found in and having small talk?

Maya Sharfi [00:19:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I once had a friend who was terminally late, always late. And we went to a party together that I really wanted to go to for networking. And I was like, she's going to be my wing woman so I could do this. And she was like 45 minutes late. And I felt really annoyed at her. And I also felt like I was missing out.

Maya Sharfi [00:20:13]:
So this, this changed everything for me. I decided to pretend that I was the one hosting the party. Like it was a party at my house and I was hosting it even though it was an event at a place. And so with that almost mental wrapper, I went up to people and I just, I was like, oh, hi, I'm Maya, nice to meet you. What brought you here? Right? Or like How'd you hear about this? Just. And I think thing that's in common with my mom's tip to ask people about themselves is that when you're focused on yourself. This is a big thing I work on with clients who struggle with people pleasing because what do you want to say yes all the time to people and you're people pleasing you think it's about the other person, but it's really about how they're going to perceive of you. And so when you take the energy and the effort, the attention and the focus off of you and onto them, what are they here for? What do they need? What's their story? It's more absorbing.

Maya Sharfi [00:21:03]:
It allows you to be absorbed and it takes your attention off of fear of judgment, fear of how you're going to be perceived. And naturally you end up making a better impression because you're like, I talk about this all the time with clients who are for example, doing business development and selling things for their company. Right. Selling client projects. People who are self promotional and self obsessed do not sell well because they're focused on themselves and they're not focused on clients. And so I think it just, it's, it's just whenever you're focused on yourself and how you're going to be perceived or can I think fast on my feet and come up with something? You're actually not focused on the most important thing on the conversation, which is them, what are their needs? What are they thinking about? Where are they stuck? What, what, what are their concerns? What's new for them? Right. I just think it's, it's the easiest way to slip out of self orientation and fear and worry into purpose and service.

David Hall [00:21:58]:
Yeah, beautifully said. That's, that's the key is, is, you know, what, what do they need? And also like you're saying, sometimes if we're nervous about it, that will, will just help us overcome that nervousness. Is getting out of ourselves like getting out of our own heads, so to speak. What other kinds of things are your clients bringing to you or what goals do they commonly have?

Maya Sharfi [00:22:23]:
Yeah, so people come to me are usually doing one of three things and sometimes a combination. So the first is that they're wanting to advance in their companies. The second is that they're trying to get a better fit job or a job like if they've been laid off or if their company reorganized or leadership changed and it's just not a fit anymore. The third is that they're trying to improve their leadership skills so that they can be more effective and more confident leaders. So I would say that it's all about increasing that match of what you're doing. Right. What fills you up and what you're doing and that match for your lifestyle and then increasing your effectiveness and your, and your, and the mental experience you have. Right.

Maya Sharfi [00:23:03]:
Doing it out of confidence versus doing it out of fear or pressure or insecurity.

David Hall [00:23:09]:
Yeah. So let's take leadership. What makes a great leader?

Maya Sharfi [00:23:12]:
Yeah, So I think it's, it's. I could give you an answer like it's contextual, but I actually realized I, I think it's, I really believe that what makes a good leader is do they get results? Like there's something you're meant to accomplish in your role and are you, are you doing it right? And of course if you get a result by burning your whole team out, then you're not going to get that result again. But like, I really think it's. Are you achieving the results of your role? I think it's the simplest and most effective definition.

David Hall [00:23:36]:
I love that definition. And I've asked that question many times on this show and I really resonate with that definition. And part of the show too is whether you're introvert, extrovert, or other personality factors, you might approach leadership and other things differently. And that's okay. It's the best way is to do it authentically.

Maya Sharfi [00:24:00]:
Yeah. I remember I went to a conference a couple of years ago and there was a business leader on the stage who's an introvert, she's an introverted style. And she said something that blew my mind. She said, you know, in her industry there tends to be a Monday morning all hands meeting where you're going over. Like it's team building, but it's also like getting everyone on the right page. And it's like a, it's a, it's like a classic thing. And she said, you know, I don't do that on Wednesdays. I have individual meetings with everybody on my staff and I just meet with them one on one.

Maya Sharfi [00:24:31]:
And you know, when there are issues, I work them out weaving between the people. Like I can figure out what the issues are through these one on one interactions. And I, that's how I resolve things or plan for things in the company. And I just, I was like dumbstruck and I was so excited because it would never be the way that I would solve things. Like I'm, I'm generally the, I'm like the all hands meeting kind of person. But I was like, she is getting to the same result. That the all hands meeting gets to, but in the way that works for her and her leadership style. And she just announce this on a stage in front of, I don't know, a thousand plus people.

Maya Sharfi [00:25:05]:
And those people, there's probably like 30% of them, they're like, oh my God, the Monday all hands meeting didn't work for me. And now they have this example of, oh, you can do it another way. And so I think that's the thing about results, which is sometimes there's a dominant way to get there, but that doesn't mean that there's another way to get there. And then that's where we can activate our creative brains and think about, okay, well here's an example. If you're trying to get promoted and you keep getting that feedback or like speak up more. And it's like, you know, I teach this when I talk, teach my clients the process of getting promoted. But starting a conversation with those leaders and just very curiously asking them like, oh, if I was speaking up more, what do you think would happen for the project that's not happening now? What do you think that would demonstrate to the client? If I was speaking up more and really getting their mental model, because speaking up is an action, but there's a result that they assume is going to be delivered, but it's not the only way to get to the results. So let's say that it's inspiring confidence in our solution for the client.

Maya Sharfi [00:26:07]:
It could be doesn't happen in the meeting. It could be that you do a download and you come back to them with, here's what I'm thinking based on these three concerns that you shared, let's have a one on one about this and a touch base. Does this feel right? Right. Like there are a million ways to get to the result. Right. Like I feel like that, that that's why for me this idea of it's the result is so empowering because sometimes different people need to get their different ways. You might have a medical condition that means that you can't travel for your job, but how do you still get those results accomplished? Right.

David Hall [00:26:38]:
Yeah. And so just speaking up more. So maybe you do speak just for the sake of speaking, you know, and you find things to say. But it's what I love that you're getting at. Well, what's the effective way? What's going to bring results, not just the act of speaking up more. So there has to be some strategy behind it.

Maya Sharfi [00:27:03]:
Yeah, yeah, I do think. Okay, let me see something counter though.

David Hall [00:27:07]:
Okay.

Maya Sharfi [00:27:07]:
Okay. So I'M coaching a client right now who's an introvert and has gotten like this exact, it's very common, this exact pushback of you need to speak up more, you need to be more visible, blah, blah, blah. So we're talking about how in meeting she feels pressure to come up with a solution in the moment or to respond to like she does client, client facing work in the moment. And I do think that there is a capacity to develop which is to really understand is it lack of confidence that is keeping you from speaking up or is it actually just your processing style? And it could be both. Right. But for example, in her field precision is really important and she's a woman, she's in a male dominated industry and there's a lot of extra pressure on women in that industry that women aren't as smart or I would say it's not the pressure, it's just because it's so male dominated. Like women get questioned more than men, right? It's like documented in the research base. They're getting their conclusions pushed back on more.

Maya Sharfi [00:28:08]:
And so there can be this coping mechanism to think I have to have everything perfect before I say it because if not people are going to think that I'm not smart and I'm not capable. And I think there is utility to push yourself, to generate the ability to speak up on the spot even if you're not a hundred percent. Right. So that you're like, you're like testing that capability. You're not afraid of it. Right. You can ultimately decide, yeah, I, I, you know, like I want to model what this could look like. It could be like, okay, first instincts are this, but I want to take this back and really think about it because you're sharing this and this and I want to weave those things in.

Maya Sharfi [00:28:47]:
So expect to hear from me tomorrow. Right. So I think there's a way to test it to increase your capacity but to also know that, hey, this may not be the ultimate way that I want to solve problems and that's okay. But I'm not going to not do this because I'm afraid I'm going to have the wrong answer because I'm afraid people are going to judge me. Right. Like it's very subtle. But the way that you're going to know the difference is are you feeling fear that they are going to think you're stupid or that you won't have the right answer? Are you feeling confident that you can figure out the right answer? You just need your process. Right.

Maya Sharfi [00:29:16]:
Like I think like it's Very subtle. But. But your, your emotions actually do tell you. And I think in order to develop that confidence, sometimes it's worth, like, testing something out just to increase your capacity, even if it doesn't end up being your go to strategy later.

David Hall [00:29:30]:
Yeah. And both of those things can happen. And I think you almost work on them in the same way a lot of times for introverts, because a big part of it is being prepared. You can't prepare for everything. And sometimes, like you're describing, you might need more time. I'm gonna, I'm gonna want to contribute during the meeting, then that's. That's what the goal would be. But sometimes I need to say, just like you described.

David Hall [00:29:59]:
Let me think about that. I will get back to you tomorrow. You know, sometimes you need to. To give yourself and articulate that need that you have. And if you can prepare to your best and also be able to share what you need, I think your confidence grows.

Maya Sharfi [00:30:15]:
Yeah. Yeah. You want to make sure that these internal barriers. I can't. Or they're going to judge me like, that you've pushed past them, right. Because you don't want them to hold you back. Because if they're holding you back in that meeting, they're holding you back in other places too. So, you know, being able to test your limits.

Maya Sharfi [00:30:32]:
Right. Even at the same time understanding where you do your best work. Right. It can't hurt you to test limits while at the same time knowing where's the. Where, like, where's your seat of strength? Right? I mean, think about this for a second. So, for example, I'm like, one of the skills that I'm working on is empathy. It doesn't come to me naturally, which is funny as a coach. Right.

Maya Sharfi [00:30:52]:
Like, I'm actually a really good coach because I, like, I am. I'm not buying into people's stories. I'm like, okay, so you have a belief that because of this market, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's just a belief. I'm like, I, I am not in it with you. I actually am on the outside of it. And that's good because then I can pull you out of it. Right? But empathy is a capacity, right? Like, it's a great strength that I'm not buying into client.

Maya Sharfi [00:31:12]:
Client stories. But empathy is a capacity that I want to be able to have when, like, I want to be able to have it when I want it, and I want to be able to turn it on when I want to have it. And so I'm working on developing that Capacity. So for example, when I meet people on the weekends at like, for example, after the synagogue service, I'm working on like quieting the brain. That's like, oh, what's the next interesting thing? And being like, what's going on for them? Oh, how do I ask about that thing they told me about last week? What was the thing they told me last week? And see how that's going for them. Because I want to grow my skills, even if this isn't going to come naturally to me. And it may never be. It's kind of like at the bar, there's like the shelf that they're always pulling liquor from and then there's the shelf that like, oh, that random person who always wants amaretto.

Maya Sharfi [00:31:55]:
Right. Like, but I know that if I want amaretto, I can pull it down and I can use it. Right. So. And I think that's part of being a growth oriented person.

David Hall [00:32:03]:
Yeah. So you work a lot. You know, you said that for people that want a promotion, how do you help them if they have doubt about themselves and the ability to take that next step?

Maya Sharfi [00:32:17]:
Yeah. So the good thing to know is that your doubt pretty much doesn't fully go away until you get the promotion. And that's okay. Right. If you think about, like, let's think about big things you accomplish in your life. Let's say you wanted to get partnered and you, you know, dating wasn't going well and you didn't meet someone in college and then you had to do online dating. And that's like, and then you found your person and you're so proud of the fact that you got out there and met people or I mean, for me, for example, I. This didn't end up leading to my life partner, but I once invited over three friends and I said, listen, I'm going to cook you the most delicious dinner.

Maya Sharfi [00:32:53]:
You're going to bring over your laptops, you're going to scroll Facebook and write down people for me to date. And it was like, it was very vulnerable for me to do that. And I like, I like think back and even though it didn't, I think it's like the moment that I sent those texts to my friends, it's like there's something in me that changed when I was willing to do that that I think then did line me up to be in a place to find my life partner. And so the doubt doesn't go away until you get the result, and that's okay. So you don't want to think it has to go away before you start, you have to actually start taking action before the doubt goes away, because that's the process. But one of the things that you want to do is that you want to really look at what are the reasons you think it's not possible. Right. So they don't promote people like me.

Maya Sharfi [00:33:39]:
Like, this is a real one from a recent client. Like she, I'm going to change some details, but she was like, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a black woman with a community college degree. Like, they're never going to choose me. Right. I am not outspoken enough. It could even be things like, there's no way that I can balance that responsibility. Right. And so you want to write those things down and then you want to look at what else could be true.

Maya Sharfi [00:33:59]:
What else could be true? Well, maybe they haven't promoted someone like, like me, but I could be the first one. A community college degree is going to, is going to mean that other people with that can see themselves in leadership. Right. So you want to just look at these doubts that you have and know that they're just sentences in your brain. And even if they feel very true to you right now, the process of going after this goal, this promotion is, is going to, it's going to like directly challenge those things. And that's actually how you're going to become that higher capacity person on the other side.

David Hall [00:34:28]:
Yeah. And I know this is a huge question because there's lots of factors, but how do you become that higher capacity person?

Maya Sharfi [00:34:35]:
Yeah. So. Well, okay, so let's, I think it probably makes sense to talk about it specifically. So. Okay, let's talk about the example of somebody going after a promotion because I have a, I have a very specific four step process that I recommend. So the first step of the process is that you have to get clear on the role that you want and the value that you would add in that role. Right. And so, so by doing that, you actually have to have to think about yourself as already being in the role, adding the value.

Maya Sharfi [00:35:02]:
What projects would you work on? Where do you think the business needs support or help? And how would you do that in that role? So you're already starting to think like the person who, who doesn't have the role. And it's kind of like, you know, I joke with my clients that sometimes it's like, I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyways. It's like, it's like, nope, this is not possible, but I'm getting started. So I'm creating cognitive Dissonance that I don't think I could do this. But I'm taking the first step pacific. So that's the first step. The second step is that, and I teach my, I have like a script for this because there's, there's nuance to the psychology of how you lead someone through this conversation. But you set up conversations with promotion decision makers and promotion decision maker maker influencers, one on one conversations one by one.

Maya Sharfi [00:35:48]:
And you go in from a leadership perspective, like as if you were already the leader, sharing your vision of what you would do in that role and then asking really curious questions about their perception of it. And if you've done it well, you walk out with here's like, you know, feedback on your theory of the value you can add, right? Either buy in or feedback. You walk out with any gaps between you and that role, right? Being ready for the role. And then you also walk out with an understanding of any processes or unwritten rules that they haven't shared. And so that increases the complexity of it in a sense that you're not just like, oh, like your brain, your brain likes to think in simple terms. So your brain's going to be like, oh, you just have to look like this and you get promoted versus like there's a more complex mental landscape around how somebody makes that decision and then how you might influence their thinking about it. The third step is that you then pull together your plan of how you're going to fill any gaps and also how you're going to be visible to the people who are those decision makers and decision maker influences. And so basically you're creating a plan of how you're going to become that person.

Maya Sharfi [00:36:49]:
So that increases that, that buy in. And then you build you, you go back to these decision makers and build buy in on that plan. The more the specifics about that plan and enroll them as allies and then you're starting to take those steps. And so even though in some ways you're just putting together a plan, you have to think so specifically about, oh, they need somebody who's managed a P and L of this scale before. Like let it like owned a P and L of this scale before. Okay, well how am I going to get that experience? You activate your brain to start solving the problem of becoming that person. And when your brain gets absorbed in it, even if you think it's not possible, you start to familiarize yourself with it. So your brain's like, oh, like maybe this is possible.

Maya Sharfi [00:37:32]:
No, I still don't believe it. But oh, maybe it could be possible. Right, so, so that, that's the psychology of it. Right. And I think having a step by step process that includes specificity, includes having to talk to someone else versus just like working on your plan in secret. Right. Because there's a risk factor in saying this is what I want. What do you think? Right.

Maya Sharfi [00:37:51]:
Like every step makes it feel more real and more believable even though it's also, it is scary and also like the best things in life, the things we're most proud of usually scared us a little bit or we didn't think was possible when we first started.

David Hall [00:38:04]:
Yeah, very true on that. And then how about the job seeker? What kind of advice do you have for someone that's looking for a job out there?

Maya Sharfi [00:38:12]:
Yeah, so basically, especially once you get to the leadership level, but sometimes even before the majority of jobs are filled through people's networks, I have so many clients who got to write their own job description, got hired before the company ever put, put the, the like put like put out a public posting. And I think that, that, that the percentage of jobs that are filled that way increases as you become more senior and, and in your, in your career. So generally I recommend. Well, first of all, you've got to get really clear on your right role because I think especially if you've, let's say you're a leader and you've become more and more of a generalist, it's very, very hard to be to get a job just I could do anything, I could do this, I could do that. And so it doesn't mean that you're not still a generalist, but you want to get really clear on what's the specific one to three roles that I can add value in. Is it in a specific industry or you want to be really, you want to create even artificial constraint because then you can get well known for and also constrain your search which will actually give you more possibility, not less. So I mean that's a precondition. But generally I recommend a combination of traditional job searching combined with one on one networking.

Maya Sharfi [00:39:24]:
So it's a series of one on one conversations where you reach out to people. Again, I have a script about how to create psychological safety for them and then how to lead them through a conversation to find out who do they know who you should be talking to? Do they know anybody who's hiring for this kind of role? Right. And it's so funny, I have a, so in my program I have a woman in HR who's looking for a specific kind of role and she could be more general. But we worked on constraint and specificity and we were doing a networking workshop and one other woman who was in, who was in the workshop was like, oh, you're looking for jobs in blah blah, blah. You know what, you should talk to my dad because my dad's an employment law and he works with all of those companies and it was just like click. Like that's exactly what we're talking about. Right. When you're specific and you're able to share that, that's how you find out.

Maya Sharfi [00:40:12]:
People who like employment lawyers, they know about jobs before people are even posting. They have contacts to put like they can put you in touch with the hiring decision makers. Right. So that's my recommendation. You know, I know for introverts sometimes it can be like, ah, networking. But the thing about the networking that is important to that I think is important is that it's not going to big events and just like shaking hands and kissing babies. It's like one conversation at a time. Because if you, it actually doesn't work if you're not in one conversation at a time because people are not focused on you and what you're looking for.

Maya Sharfi [00:40:43]:
And you know, I've introverted clients. I have a client who used this, this process. She found her job, it was a significant jump in salary. She was like, and then I turned around and used the skill to build friends in my new city that I was moving to for the job and it was just like perfect for me.

David Hall [00:40:57]:
So yeah, that's great. And introverts often excel at the 1 to 1. So just talk a little bit more about that. How do they find these one on one conversations that are going to be helpful?

Maya Sharfi [00:41:12]:
Yeah, so usually we actually have people in our network already who have connections to the roles. So past colleagues, current colleagues, people you went to school with, people you met at a conference. Right. A really big belief that I work on, especially with women who I think are socialized to believe women are socialized more than men to be nurturers. And so women believe that if they're not constantly like pumping energy into a relationship, it dies. And so a big thing I work on is no, you can reach out to that person who you went to business school with and you haven't connected with them in 10 years. And you know like reaching out when you're looking for a job doesn't have to be like, oh please sir, I'm looking for a job. I'm so desperate.

Maya Sharfi [00:41:51]:
It can be like, hey, how are you? Looks like, you're doing really interesting things. You know, I'm at a transition point. I'm looking for my next opportunity. Would you be open to a 20 minute catch up conversation? I'd love to share what I'm looking for and if there's any way to be helpful for you, I would love to be supportive. Right. Like totally different energy and totally possible. Right. So I think, like, I do teach advanced strategies if you're pivoting and you don't have a lot of contacts in your current network for the job you want.

Maya Sharfi [00:42:19]:
But like, generally, even people who are pivoting almost always have the relationships they need in. Like, I have a friend who pivoted into sustainability and it was her aunt who happened to know someone. So I really do believe that most of the time we have the wealth existing in our networks, we just either are not remembering we have it, we're not, or we're not giving ourselves permission to tap into it.

David Hall [00:42:41]:
Yeah, absolutely. And definitely it's not just sometimes when we talk about networking, people just imagine the event. Right. But a lot of times it's not that. Maya, this has been such a great conversation. Is there anything else you want to add today?

Maya Sharfi [00:42:56]:
Well, I just wanted to offer to your listeners that I have a free assessment. It's a five minute assessment that will help you identify the next, the obstacle between you and your next role. So I know we've talked about a lot of things today. We've talked about networking and getting clear in your positioning, all those things. And sometimes it can feel overwhelming when you know you want to get promoted or your leadership skills. And it's like I could do these 70, 72 things. And one of the, one of my philosophies is that we figure out the right next step. We put blinders on, we ignore everything else and we just execute on that one step.

Maya Sharfi [00:43:29]:
So if you want to access that, that, that assessment, it will help you pinpoint your exact next obstacle between you and your next role. You can get it@buildyourself workshop.com David and take it. Reach out to me on LinkedIn, let me know what you got, because I actually have some extra resources to send you depending on what it is for you. And yeah, I think it'll just bring so much relief to not have to think about what are all the things, Is it my boss? Is it my this? Do I do this? Do I? What about personal branding? Right. Like, nope, just there's usually there's a very small set of obstacles between you and your next role. So let's isolate exactly what it is for you.

David Hall [00:44:05]:
Yeah, great. I will add that to the show notes. How else can people get ahold of you and find out more about the great work that you do?

Maya Sharfi [00:44:12]:
Yeah. Please connect with me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is my, my, my playground. That's where I, I love to be. I love to connect with people there. Reach out to me, connect with me. I would love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what your top takeaway was for my, my conversation with David.

David Hall [00:44:25]:
All right, well, thanks again, Maya. Thanks again for the great conversation. Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you.

David Hall [00:44:54]:
Reach out to daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.