Ep 290 - Strengths & Confidence for Introverts with guest Nancy Yang

Have you ever wondered how introverts can harness their strengths and show up with authentic confidence—without pretending to be someone they’re not? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with Nancy Yang, a coach for introverted professionals who has built her career across cultures. Together, they explore what it means to embrace reflection, active listening, and deep observation as powerful assets in work and life.

Listeners will discover:

• How to identify and capitalize on the unique strengths of introversion
• The difference between shyness, introversion, and confidence
• Practical strategies to speak up assertively in meetings and social situations
• Why it’s important to set boundaries and honor your own social preferences
• Tips for leaders to create supportive environments where every voice is valued

Tune in to hear Nancy’s inspiring journey and actionable advice for building confidence, finding your voice, and making your introversion work for you. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to recognize the hidden treasures in their personality and for leaders eager to empower every member of their team.

…and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/290

As an introverted Chinese woman who built her career in Sweden, Nancy Yang knows firsthand what it feels like to be the quiet voice in the room — being told to "speak up more," feeling invisible in meetings, and navigating networking events that drain rather than energize you. Now working with clients from over 30 countries, she helps introverted women speak up assertively with confidence, build visibility in ways that feel authentic to them, and network without pretending to be someone they're not. Nancy has been recognized as a Game Changer by HushLoudly and is a trusted speaker at IKEA's Talent Focus Week and ICF Converge 2026 in Paris.

Connect with Nancy on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Nancy Yang [00:00:00]:
Number one is reflection. I love reflection. I love deep, deep thinking. And I sometimes say that, you know, you see me maybe quiet outside, but I'm really loud inside because I'm doing some deep work there.

David Hall [00:00:15]:
Oh yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:00:15]:
And then the second, I think it's, uh, it comes really natural with the career that I'm doing as a coach, is listening. And really listening, not only listen to what people say, but also listen to what is not being said, what is between, between the lines. Last but not least, I think it is about being really observative. You know, I could be sitting there and notice patterns. And sometimes people working with me saying like, oh wow, just like 30 minutes. Then I share my reflection. They say, oh wow, yeah, exactly. That is a pattern that I never sort of really thought of.

Nancy Yang [00:00:55]:
So the observation and pattern recognition, I think those 3 are my strengths.

David Hall [00:01:11]:
Hello and welcome to episode 290 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts, along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or rating. That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show.

David Hall [00:01:41]:
Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. As an introverted Chinese woman who built her career in Sweden, Nancy Young knows firsthand what it feels like to be the quiet voice in the room. Being told to speak up more, feeling invisible in meetings, and navigating networking events that drain rather than energize. Now working with clients from over 30 countries, she helps introverted women speak up assertively with confidence, build visibility in ways that feel authentic to them, and network without pretending to be someone they're not. Nancy has been recognized as a game changer by Hush Loudly and is a trusted speaker at IKEA's Talent Focus Week and IFC Coverage 2026 in Paris. All right. Well, Nancy, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. It's so good to have you on today.

Nancy Yang [00:02:40]:
Well, hey, David, what an honor to be on your podcast. I've been a longtime listener for your podcast. Now I am here. I truly feel like a pleasure and honor.

David Hall [00:02:52]:
Yeah, of course. We've been connected for a long time on LinkedIn and it's really good to have you on today. So Nancy, we're going to talk about the work you do as a coach, especially a coach for introverts. Tell us about yourself. Tell us a little bit more about your journey to getting to, as an introvert and now being a coach for other introverts.

Nancy Yang [00:03:11]:
Yeah, thanks for that question. It really brings me back to, uh, you know, my childhood and earlier when I, when I was a university student, to be honest, even though I was— I have been an introverted kid or young adult. It never really bothered me. I felt like, you know, as long as I worked hard, I got good degree, then that speaks loud for who I am. It wasn't a problem until November 2007. There's something happened that year really shift my view on how I see introversion and, and what I want to do about it. That year I was being called to my manager's office and she told me that because of your hard working, we, we had a plan, we have a plan to send you to an overseas office for a temporary position for 6 months, something like that. And I was beyond the, the sixth heaven.

Nancy Yang [00:04:12]:
Is that the English expression, right? I was so— I was thrilled because I never, never stepped out of China and I didn't even have a passport. And that opportunity means, means so much to me. So I quickly flew back to my hometown and got passport managed. And then it was when I flew back, I was expecting, you know, there was not many weeks ahead from our departure to the overseas office. My manager called me into the office again. I was like, oh yeah, she's gonna tell me what I need to prepare because this is the first time for me to, to be, to travel overseas. To my surprise, eyes, she said, sorry, Nancy, and after some really thorough consideration, the management team and I decided to send someone else, someone who is more vocal and could really represent our branch office better in the overseas head office. That took me, like, you know, that took me by surprise.

Nancy Yang [00:05:19]:
That was totally unexpected. I really did my best to hold myself back, not sort of making a big scene at that moment. But later, on the way back home, I really cried my eyeballs out because that was so— I was so devastated about going through— went through all the troubles. At the end, I was told that, you're not the one we were sending there. Not because I did not work hard. At the fact that why I was— why I was chosen in the first place, because of my tracking record and performance.

David Hall  [00:05:52]:
Mm-hmm.

Nancy Yang [00:05:52]:
The reason was I wasn't vocal enough. And then from there, I start to see that, okay, maybe there's something else beside the technical skills, technical competencies that I need to work on. So from there, I started my journey of exploration and experimentation on, oh, how can I be perceived more vocal, confidence, and like a leadership material, and etc. I really wished, you know, that 10+ years back, there would be someone who who could help me, to guide me through in that journey, because it took me many, many years to finally find my way that feels true to me, yet give me— make me feel more, you know, confident and vocal. So that is what I'm doing now in my coaching, to coach introverted professionals work across cultures to really get the career recognition that they worked hard for.

David Hall  [00:06:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.

David Hall [00:06:51]:
Thanks for sharing that. I, I can only imagine many introverts listening have had the same or similar type of experience where, you know, and I know I have, you know, you work hard, you have great technical skills, you do some great work, but you're, you're not, you're not perceived as, you know, as the confident person that, you know, that you can be. And we're going to get into how you— you're— what you did to overcome that, you know. And so let's, let's talk about how did you figure out you were an introvert?

Nancy Yang [00:07:27]:
Well, I— this question is really interesting because I— what I thought that I was an extrovert for some time, because for me, introverts are Um, really, really quiet, I would say. But for me, somehow, you know, I pretended for long enough to feel that, oh, at least I am— I can say what I want to say. But maybe there's part of me judging me, you know. I feel like I put up a show usually after work. I feel like, oh, finally I can, you know, put off my, my mask, now being myself. It was until 2018 when I did an MBA assessment and was debriefed by an internal coach, he told me, he said, oh, from the report, you— it turned out to be you are an introvert. And my first reaction was like, oh, you know, I was so culturally seasoned, but in Chinese culture, I was also having these misconceptions about what introvert— introversion really means, being an introvert really means. At that moment, I was like, oh.

Nancy Yang [00:08:40]:
Okay, I was in that group that many people in China said it's not leadership material. Oh, oh, how did that land on me? However, things turned around when I, when I read Susan Cain's Quiet. Then I started to, you know, it almost like it opened a new world for me. I started to think, oh, this means this is introversion. It's not how I thought introversion is. Oh, that is, could be my superpower instead. instead of something that I should be ashamed of. It's not something that I should overcome or fix.

Nancy Yang [00:09:17]:
And the personality isn't the criteria for a great leader or not great leader. All these things. So from there, I just feel like, you know, I started to truly accept and embrace me being an introvert.

David Hall [00:09:32]:
Yeah, awesome. And yeah, shout out to Susan Cain. So many people like yourself. She, she made so many introverts feel like, hey, there's nothing wrong with me. In fact, there's— I have great strengths from this. And that's what you discovered as well.

Nancy Yang [00:09:47]:
Yeah, look at how many things have changed since that book has been out. I've heard of us— I've heard of some studies that it takes around 80 years for a movement to really become a norm, something like that. I heard it from some Yeah, then it's— well, but since that book, I mean, many things have happened in the introvert space. Now going on LinkedIn, you search for coach for introvert, there are quite many of them, which I'm super proud to standing in the— in this line of introvert advocates.

David Hall [00:10:23]:
Yeah, and, and what you were talking about, there is a negative stereotype, there is a stigma that we need to get rid of. You know, and it's so funny because I know shy introverts. I also know shy extroverts. It's not the shy— It's, it's, it's the differences. And you know this, it's like introverts were tuned inward and extroverts are more focused outward.

Nancy Yang [00:10:55]:
That's the big difference.

David Hall [00:10:57]:
You know, we go into our world of imaginations. And we do some good work in there, you know.

Nancy Yang [00:11:03]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:11:03]:
And extroverts, you know, they have some talents too, from, you know, being more outwardly focused. And we both have talents, neither is good or bad. But so many people imagine that that quiet person, well, it's because they're an introvert, not necessarily. And the other thing is, you know, from listening to my show, that I really believe that those that are shy as introverts, It could be that they just don't understand their introversion. There could be a lot of other causes and factors, but for me, I was quiet, I lacked confidence, and it's because I didn't understand, oh, I'm thinking and then speaking. My friend over here is thinking out loud most of the time. If you don't understand that dynamic, you can feel like less than or marginalized.

Nancy Yang [00:11:48]:
Yes, also true. That is why sometimes when a client comes to a coaching call, in the discovery call, they say like, you can tell I'm a I'm not an introvert, or I'm, I'm an extrovert. I would— I, in the beginning, I felt like, oh, okay, all right. And then later, I, you know, courageously sort of sum up my courage and tell them that, no, not really, not by like you speaking like this. I cannot tell you. And then I can share the definition of introversion, extroversion. You tell me what lands on you. What do you think? And then that sometimes opens doors for them, like, oh, really?

David Hall [00:12:25]:
Yeah, yeah, I love that. So Nancy, what's the strength that you have because you're an introvert?

Nancy Yang [00:12:32]:
I love that question. Well, I will pick 3. I love the number 3. I think 3 is a magic number.

David Hall [00:12:39]:
Yeah, yeah, let's have it.

Nancy Yang [00:12:41]:
So number 1 is reflection. I love reflection. I love deep, deep thinking. And I sometimes say that, you know, you see me maybe quiet outside, but I'm really loud inside because I'm doing some deep work there.

David Hall  [00:12:54]:
Oh yeah.

David Hall [00:12:56]:
Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:12:57]:
And then the second, I think it's, uh, it comes really natural with the career that I'm doing as a coach, is listening. And really listening, not only listen to what people say, but also listen to what is not being said, what is between, between the lines. And last but not least, I think it is about, um, being really observative. You know, I could be sitting there and notice patterns, and sometimes people working with me saying like, oh wow, it's just like 30 minutes, then I share my reflection. They say, oh wow, yeah, exactly, that is a, that is a pattern that I never sort of really thought of. So the observation and pattern recognition, I think those 3 are my strengths. So it's a superpower I'm super proud of.

David Hall [00:13:47]:
Yeah, yeah, and we absolutely need that. And I, I think as introverts, so there's a lot of different gifts, you know, we We're not all alike, right? But I would think that being reflective, I think that's something that we all share. And then there's other, you know, I also recognize patterns, you know, and, and just see things that maybe other people aren't seeing, you know? And, and guess what? Our world needs that. Our world needs new, new ways of thinking, new innovations. And, you know, a lot of that comes from the imaginations and introverts, right?

Nancy Yang [00:14:23]:
Yeah, exactly. That is why I believe these are the untapped treasure in teams. If you have introverts in your team, giving them enough, giving them the time that they need to think through, then they will come up with things that might open your eyes that you might not see from, you might not get from others.

David Hall [00:14:44]:
Yeah, and that's, you know, we definitely talk about strengths like we just did, We also talk about needs, and that's a big need that we have. We need often, you know, I think about some decisions I've made or some things I've created, and sometimes I come up with stuff really quickly, but more often it's give me some time and let me wrestle with it. Let me let the ideas roll around in my head for a bit and I'll come up with something great. And, you know, my extroverted colleague may not need that same time. they may think, you know, come up with their ideas quicker, but let me, let me have some time and I, you know, let me come up with something great. And I always say that to introverts. It's like, you know, give yourself some time and come up with some brilliant ideas, you know, and share your brilliant ideas.

Nancy Yang [00:15:37]:
That's so true, David. In fact, this time when I was joining ICF Converge Summit in Paris, there was one coach in our, in our session asking like, yeah, okay, introverts need time, but in this fast-paced world, in the workplace, you don't— they don't usually have the time, or we don't usually have the time for, you know, for introverts to think, to think deeper and etc. What can we do, you know, about that? What advice would you give to them, David, in that case, if that is a question addressed to you?

David Hall [00:16:11]:
Okay, so often we can do some thinking ahead of time. Preparation is our superpower and a key to our success. So if we're talking about meetings, for example, get the agenda. You know, do I need to do some more research? Do I need to do some more thinking? What questions do I have? And write that all down for yourself. Now, are you going to be able to think of everything in the moment? Are you going to be able to prepare for everything? No, we know that. But in most, most of the time, you know, make your, make your culture at your, in your work, It's okay to contribute after, you know. Now I know sometimes that's not going to be okay. There might be something you've got to decide this right now.

David Hall [00:16:55]:
So you're going to do your best preparation, but in most cases, make it okay that you could contribute an idea after the fact. And a lot of people have ideas later, you know, oh, I should have said that, you know, or how about, how about we try this? Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:17:11]:
Yeah, of course.

David Hall [00:17:11]:
I think especially introverts, Yeah, so of course. So preparation is just, it's key for us.

Nancy Yang [00:17:18]:
Yeah, totally agree with everything that you just said. And the team allowing different format of contribution is really important for introverts to shine, right?

David Hall [00:17:28]:
Yeah, I had an introverted CEO on some time back and, and that, you know, it's like, all right, let's give, this is a big decision. Let's give it, you know, after we're talking about it, let's give it 24 more hours or however long. You know, let's give it this much more time to make our final decision. And I thought that was good advice.

Nancy Yang [00:17:49]:
Oh yeah, absolutely.

David Hall [00:17:51]:
All right, Nancy, you probably know we also bust myths on this show. What's a myth about introverts that you want to bust today?

Nancy Yang [00:18:00]:
Well, this probably has been busted before, but I'd like to bring it up again about introverts being not social. that we are like in our bubble or whatever people call it. I feel like that is a myth that I, I'd like to raise awareness again. I would say that introvert social is really selective, and we're not being sort of like— because our— we know that the introvert, the social, social part might drain our energy from it. So we are being selective, like who deserves our effort and, and time spent together. And in— when talk about introverts social and how introverted we could be perceived in a social event, let's say, I always say there are sort of kind of 3 bubbles. If I connecting the sort of my experience and the theory that I have, I've heard, one bubble is about contact. Who are there in that event? Are there closer friends or, you know, closer families? Then we might be less introverted.

Nancy Yang [00:19:06]:
And then, then with totally strangers. And then the next is context. And how big is the group? How big is the event? And I— and wait, I think, David, you agree that as introverts, we are way— how can I say— socialize better in small groups or even particular one-on-ones, right? I think context matters. And then last is content, like what topics we are talking about. I, I think what it was Brian Little talked about, this passion project, when we talk about something that we truly passionate about, we naturally act out our character. Maybe some people will feel like we are extroverts, but in fact it's just because we are talking about something that we truly passionate about. That's the same reaction that I got after, you know, the presentation in Paris. People say, oh, Nancy, it's hard to see that you are an introvert.

Nancy Yang [00:19:59]:
I said, because I'm talking about something that truly close and dear to my heart, that is why. So I think introvert is really good at social if you give— if we give them space so that they can socialize in the introverted way. So don't judge introverts' social capability using extrovert measurements.

David Hall [00:20:21]:
Yeah, I love that, all of those things that you said. And you know, it's funny what you're talking about right now, what we're talking about, I could go on and on And, you know, you can't shut me up, you know, or, or if people use, use it wrong to say, you know, introverts aren't social or that's, I'm, I'm not an introvert because I am social. That's ridiculous. Ridiculous. Because all it is, is we think deeply. We often process before we speak. That's the difference. And if you understand that, And you're prepared and you, and you know that, hey, you know what? Sometimes there's gonna be a little silence.

Nancy Yang [00:21:03]:
That's okay.

David Hall [00:21:05]:
You know, and not feeling awkward about, about that piece. And you know, the other thing I discovered, Nancy, was, you know, I'm confident. I speak as much as I want to, but I'm still not using as many words as my extroverted friends. You know, it's just, it's just a natural thing. And, you know, I get so much, you know, people, I talk to so many people that are like, well, you know, I like my, I need my time alone, but I need people. I'm like, yeah, me too. Doesn't make you an extrovert, you know? And sometimes even the one-on-one, you know, especially with people you know well or people that you have a lot in common with or you share ideas with, that conversation might be energizing. It might not be draining at all.

David Hall [00:21:49]:
And so, you know, the fact that we don't necessarily like all the same type of social activities that extroverts do, which I think is, I think that's the biggest misunderstanding. It's, you know, we don't want to go to an event and bounce around as quickly as we can and try to meet it. That's not, that's not our, that's not us. That's not our strength. It's not our, it's not going to be effective for us. But, you know, we have some good conversations with maybe a smaller group or a person and, and we love it. So that's being social. It's just not, or, you know, we might not be, wanna be put on the spot and say, all right, uh, what's 3 fun facts about yourself? Introverts hate that if they're not ready, if they're not ready for it, you know.

Nancy Yang [00:22:38]:
You know what, David, the energy when you talk about this is almost feels like unstoppable. It really, really shows your passion in this stuff.

David Hall [00:22:46]:
Right. And guess what, Nancy? I am loving this conversation. I am being social with you and I love it. It's not draining at all. So it's just, it's just, I like that you, you know, the way you described it was perfect. It's, it's selective or situational. You know, we just, there's certain environments where we really get to use our strengths. And a lot of times it can be energizing or sometimes maybe we're really enjoying ourselves.

David Hall [00:23:12]:
But we still need a break after. And it's understanding all— it's understanding that, like, okay, I'm gonna go to this event, it's gonna be fun. Like, uh, tonight I'm doing a presentation on strengths, and which will include introversion. I'm gonna love it. But guess what? When I'm done, I'm done. I'm gonna be ready to go home and relax. Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:23:33]:
Oh, I love that, David. Actually, that is one thing that's in the context bubble that I talked about.

David Hall [00:23:39]:
Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:23:39]:
It's about our preferences. You know, earlier days, one thing that bothers me a lot is to leave a social event earlier. And then I thought that I, I would be a party pooper by leaving early. Here in Sweden, people party hard.

David Hall  [00:23:54]:
Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:23:54]:
So they party maybe till 2, 3 AM.

David Hall [00:23:57]:
Oh, yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:23:58]:
And I'm usually the one, you know, want to leave very earlier. Then I, I had a really heavy, you know, mental burden that, oh, I need to, I need to force myself to stay. as late as I can. With that said, it actually took me away, took my willingness away to socialize more, because I knew that, oh, as soon as I— or as long as I commit, then I need to be there for 5, 6 hours where I just feel like, oh, my energy has already gone. So then later I experimented, noticed, oh, for me, 3 hours is my top. So I would do my best within these 3 hours to present with others, listen to the others, and having this meaningful conversation with others. And then I will respect my boundary. I would just feel like, okay, it doesn't really matter how the other thinks, and I need to leave, or I need to find a way to recharge my battery.

Nancy Yang [00:24:52]:
That really helped me. And I just wanted to, you know, say to the audience in your podcast, whoever is bothered by, you know, like, oh, I need to commit to stay stay as late as I can, or force yourself to socialize. Realizing your boundaries is really important, and realizing what is your preferences that make socializing not a painful experience instead of a joyful journey. And asking yourself, starting to figure out how long you can socialize without, you know, feeling completely drained, and how big of a group works for you, that in this small group that you will feel, oh, I can contribute, instead of, oh, I, I just want to be in observer or listener. All are okay. Like you said, there's no right or wrong. It's just knowing our preferences, our boundaries, helps us to embrace the fact that we socialize differently.

David Hall [00:25:48]:
Yeah, and it just, it needs to be okay. What's, what works for you? You know, it's sometimes, sometimes we'll have to stay later than we want to depending on the situation, but it's okay if you can go when you, when you're, you know, kind of done when you're drained. And yeah, that's fine. It's funny, I had a guest on and, you know, he definitely talked about this topic and he was in California. So there was a lot of like after-party boat cruises, you know?

Nancy Yang [00:26:19]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:26:20]:
And he's like, I wouldn't do that. 'Cause there's no escape. You know, if the cruise is going on, let's just say till 3 in the morning, like you were just saying, you know, He's stuck. So he wouldn't do the after-party boat cruise.

Nancy Yang  [00:26:32]:
Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:26:34]:
Great that this person respected their own boundaries. Yeah.

David Hall [00:26:39]:
And, you know, sometimes too, I used to feel weird about being by myself. Like maybe I am at a conference and I need a break, you know, just taking a walk around, you know, I used to feel weird about that, but that's, that's silly. There's no reason to, you know, do what you need to do.

Nancy Yang [00:26:57]:
Well, isn't that interesting? Because sometimes it's, it's all in ourselves, how we sense, how we make sense about what we do, how we behave in certain ways. Maybe the others wouldn't think of that, think too much on that, but it's us, sort of like hinders us from moving further or moving forward with it.

David Hall [00:27:18]:
Yeah, and they say that people aren't thinking about you as much as you think because most of us are thinking a lot about ourselves.

Nancy Yang [00:27:26]:
Yeah, exactly. I remember there was a, um, quote— was it from Eleanor Roosevelt? Said that don't worry about what other people think. When you know how much time they spent on what you say, you wouldn't worry because they spend very limited time. Yeah, what do you think or what do you do?

David Hall [00:27:47]:
Exactly. So Nancy, how did you decide to become a coach?

Nancy Yang [00:27:52]:
Good question. The journey begins 2019, 2020 when I was standing at my career crossroad on deciding what's next for me. You know, having been a manager for some years, I just feel like, okay, I wanted to sort of lost my spark for some reason. Then I want, oh, there's something, there must be something, something more for me in this, not just climbing the ladder as a—

David Hall  [00:28:21]:
Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:28:22]:
Using the stigma or using you know, the momentum that I created just climbing the, the same ladder. And then there I was introduced to be coached by a coach. Then from there I noticed, oh, this is interesting, this can be powerful. Meanwhile, it really helped me realizing that I don't need to dim my light, I don't need to suppress my curiosity, because early in my career I joined the leadership program where in the program we were being nominated from different departments, including some senior leaders, where I was really junior back then. And in the second day of the leadership training, when I was— when the trainer asked, oh, who has a question about this? And then I said, oh, I do, I do. You know, I'm really enthusiastic and really curious about the topic. Then there was a senior leader standing beside me rolled his eyes. And in that moment, I was like, oh wow, maybe my curiosity is, you know, something prevent me from making a, you know, like a really authoritative leader.

Nancy Yang [00:29:32]:
Maybe being an authoritative leader, that I shouldn't ask so many questions. My curiosity might be really bad, it's jeopardizing me. So I start to learn, you know, people are really adaptive. When you, when you see this behavior is not favorable to, to, to, to the others, I start to suppress it. And I was a little bit, even a little bit ashamed of having so many questions. But then when I was being coached, first of all, I noticed, oh, there's people, you know, make a living by asking other questions.

David Hall  [00:30:05]:
Yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:30:05]:
How wonderful is that? And then people were saying that— I got this kind of feedback very often— oh, Nancy, you ask very sharp questions. Oh, you're so curious. Then I was like, oh, Oh, this might be something for me. Then I started my journey learning about coaching. I'm not kidding you, David, the first module when we learned coaching, I was like, I'm curious. I'm— I ask already really sharp questions. There's not much for me to learn. Maybe I'm here just to go through the process, getting the certificate, and etc.

Nancy Yang [00:30:40]:
But then that was like a slap on my face going through that, that process, I realized, oh, it's not really about asking questions. It's about putting down my ego and really being fully present with the client and listening before asking questions. They— I, you know, I used to sort of thinking of those, um, powerful questions that I collected from powerful coaches. For instance, I collect some questions from Tony Robbins, some questions from Oprah Winfrey, all in my little notes. Sometimes I took them out, wanted to shock, shock my clients look like, oh wow, this is an eye-opening moment. But then it wasn't. After Module 1, our trainer said to me, Nancy, you have this curiosity. What you need is to put down your performance and put down that, you know, other things.

Nancy Yang [00:31:33]:
Be fully present. Listen first before you ask me your questions. Then I realized, oh wow, you know, performing coaching and being a coach is not the same. So I am now on the journey I really wanted to be the coach, not sort of perform coaching.

David Hall [00:31:50]:
Yeah, describe that difference a little bit more. Like, what's the difference between being a coach and performing?

Nancy Yang [00:31:57]:
Yeah, being a coach meaning that I will let go of my, my expectation wanting to be seen as a great coach. I would do whatever serves the client the best at the moment. There were times, you know, in my coaching session, client discovered something that not to their favor. For instance, one of the coaching clients came here and saying that he wants to learn how to get along with his team. After 2 sessions, and he discovered what he really needs to do is he needs to change his career because it's draining his energy every single day. However, that discovery was really discomfortable or very uncomfortable for him because there are other things coming in, and he just, you know, immigrated to Sweden from another country, and was 2 years into the country. He said life would just settled. Now he discovered that, oh, this, this career that he actually got him here is actually draining his energy.

Nancy Yang [00:32:59]:
And then he, yeah, then he said that, oh, this is really, you know, like, I'm not ready for this, and etc. Then I said, that's fine, and you can sit with this inside as long as you want. When you, when you're ready, I'm here again to help you pick up where we left. So that is about coaching. Like, if I'm performing coaching, I will, I will say, okay, that is not what you want, then what you, what you want? Let's move towards your favor to, you know, really scratch the surface instead of go further into a conversation that could really help him in a way.

David Hall [00:33:36]:
Yeah. So have you found that you need to help some people you coach embrace their introversion?

Nancy Yang [00:33:42]:
Absolutely, many. And then, you know, the thing is, people know what it's like. I'm not the only introvert. I'm not the only one who had this, this challenge. However, in a coaching session, when they really got to say it out loud themselves, and then the moment when they really acknowledge that, oh, introversion isn't something that I should be ashamed of, introversion isn't something that I should fix, and I have done great things, you know, with me being an introvert. That moment was really beautiful. So there were so many moments when clients, you know, finally drop their, you know, misconception, which really I wanted to do a shout out to your work, David, you know, that debunks, debunk, debunk the myths in your, in your, in your sessions, in your podcast is really helpful because sometimes when client lack of understanding of introversion, I would say, you know, this is a podcast you should go and listen to. Sometimes if I have listened to certain podcasts, some of the episodes in your podcast, I found really good things in that that directly speak to this specific client.

Nancy Yang [00:34:57]:
I would say check this episode. So I, yeah, I really love the work that you do.

David Hall [00:35:02]:
And then, uh, thank you so much for saying that. That's really good to hear. And you're part, you're part of the work now. Some people are going to say, Hey, check out this episode of Quiet and Strong with Nancy, you know.

Nancy Yang [00:35:13]:
Yeah, if even one person, if this conversation could support one person, one introvert, I will be really grateful for that.

David Hall [00:35:22]:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, you know, we were talking earlier, you know, that introversion isn't shyness, but sometimes we can lack confidence. Tell me how you help So first of all, what's your story? How did you become confident and how do you help others that you coach become confident?

Nancy Yang [00:35:42]:
Yeah, well, I was— I used to be a true believer of this fake it until you make it.

David Hall  [00:35:49]:
Oh yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:35:50]:
Yeah, and it worked. I would say it worked for me for a while, but I felt like, you know, I, I remember there was once I joined a yearly party in the company and I have my best friend with me. after that event, and she, on the way home, she said, Nancy, you were like another person. You were not that Nancy that I knew. Right, because I put on that, you know, that facade of, you know, I'm confident, I'm really speaking out loud, I'm trying to be humorous, and etc. It worked. However, what I didn't know, that it sort of bites me inside. The more I feel like people accept that Nancy, the more fear I have to show the true Nancy.

Nancy Yang [00:36:34]:
And then I was like wrapping myself up with layers and layers of masks. It was until I, I came to Sweden, and then I had met great leaders here from the company. And then particularly some of the great leaders, they really, they really sort of helped me to— it's almost like peeling the onions. like telling me, oh, it's okay to, to be like this, it's okay to be like that. Gradually I put down my guard, put down my guard, and feel like, oh, maybe it's okay to just, you know, not all the time being— be trying to be confident. I can have moments of doubt. It doesn't have to be loud to communicate. And then I can be in a quiet or observe, or maybe sometimes I don't say a word in, in a meeting just to observe.

Nancy Yang [00:37:19]:
So gradually I I, I changed from, you know, really perform confidence to really being confident. So you ask me, how can I help? How do I help my client gain confidence? You know, I like modules, David. So you already— I shared this is 3C on the socializing. When it comes to confidence, I see sort of a— there are again 3 things in confidence. It's about skill set, mindset, and environment. What I meant is many clients before they come to me, they have gone through some kind of confidence courses. They bought it online, they read books, and etc.

David Hall  [00:37:58]:
Do you—

Nancy Yang [00:37:58]:
I cannot say that they don't have the skill set. Maybe they, they do know like how I should carry myself to be seen as confident, but they don't do it. The gap between knowing and doing it is kind of huge. So then what I do with them is about sort of the mindset part, about what hinders them.

David Hall  [00:38:16]:
Mm-hmm.

Nancy Yang [00:38:17]:
about, you know, being, being confident. It's maybe it's about overthinking. Before I, I say anything, I need to go through many, many times in my mind. Or it's about self-doubt and particularly maybe imposter syndrome and etc. You know, I'm not senior enough, I'm not qualified. Or about self-critique, like, oh, who am I? Or this, the, the thing that I'm about to share is too basic. So I call it like a mental SOS. Mentally sort of block ourselves.

Nancy Yang [00:38:48]:
Then how to break that is what I do with client very much. Then the skill set in every areas— sometimes people saying confidence is subject-oriented. We all have area that we are confident, we are all having area that we're not, not so confident. So in this skill set area, for instance, if client wanted to speak, wanted to, you know, speak up more in meetings, so in that they know how to, but they just feel like, oh, there's no— I don't want to risk it in team meetings. Then in that, thanks to AI, I have an AI tool for client to practice in real time, 24/7, and gaining the feedback directly from the AI tool guiding them through. Like, okay, if you want to speak up, let's first practice in a safe space at your own pace, getting feedback so that you feel safe when you go out to speak in other forums. And then the environment, sometimes environment plays a really crucial role in how confident one could feel. Thinking of you are— if you're working in a toxic environment, whatever you say, you were being put down because of your gender, because of your nationality and such.

Nancy Yang [00:40:02]:
It's really hard for people like that to, to sort of gain confidence or unleash their confidence inside. So with that said, I would intentionally with the client looking at, you know, what kind of environment that you are building for yourself to to boost your confidence instead of erode your confidence. So those are the 3 areas that I work with clients to help them with unleashing the confidence. I really feel like everybody has confidence somewhere in them. It's just to unleash it with the right support.

David Hall [00:40:34]:
Yeah, yeah. And, uh, at the beginning of that you said, I think, I think most of us have tried the fake it till you make it approach. And it doesn't work. And it's not even, it's very draining. And like, you know, it's not even as effective. I'm curious, how do you use AI to coach you to gain confidence?

Nancy Yang [00:40:57]:
Yeah. Well, in AI, there was a tool that I customized. It's not the tool that I have developed myself here because of the, it's a part of my IP. So I will not share the name of the tool. The, the platform is already there. It's— and then I was customizing, building scenarios that's really customized for our introverted— okay, it's introverted part of the challenge that we have, such as speaking up in meetings. Then there will be scenarios, different scenarios about speaking up in meetings, how you could speak up in meetings, and etc. Then you would do, based on different scenarios, you choose a scenario that works best for you, that this part I feel most challenging.

Nancy Yang [00:41:37]:
Then you choose that scenario, then you can start to directly chatting with with that AI. I'm just practicing, practicing at 8 days. AI will serve based on what you choose as a colleague or as a your manager or whatever in that scenario, and then they will give you feedback how you have perceived. And if it's a virtual meeting, even better, because the AI will also tell you how, you know, how often you look at the camera and how the pace of your speech and etc., and giving you some advice how you can do better. Then that is just AI part. I think AI can do certain degree, can do service to a certain degree. Then we usually come back to a weekly call or biweekly call to sort of debrief what they have learned, what has been helpful, what hasn't really helped them. Then we tuning that part.

Nancy Yang [00:42:30]:
So there is AI plus human in together in supporting the client to really getting confident in the skill set part.

David Hall [00:42:38]:
Okay, so with the AI, you're actually on camera and speaking?

Nancy Yang [00:42:43]:
Yes, exactly.

David Hall [00:42:44]:
Yeah, that's fascinating.

Nancy Yang [00:42:45]:
And then because— and then also because I paid for the, the platform, all the data will not be used to train the, the, the tool. It will stay in my program.

David Hall [00:42:56]:
Oh yeah.

Nancy Yang [00:42:56]:
Or it will be stayed—

David Hall [00:42:57]:
It's closed, right? Yeah, it's closed.

Nancy Yang [00:43:00]:
Yeah, it's closed. Not so— not that I would know what the client was saying. All the data will be saved, but not not being trained by the platform, I wouldn't know what they say because everything is confidential.

David Hall [00:43:10]:
Yeah, and that's something you have to keep in mind when with AI, you know, is this okay to put that out there in the information, or is this confidential, and do I have a closed system that's not going to share this?

Nancy Yang [00:43:27]:
Yeah, so true, so true. You know, earlier the other day I got a YouTube commercial telling that you could Click here, AI will tell you who is your true, true love, and etc.

David Hall  [00:43:40]:
Oh, wow.

Nancy Yang [00:43:40]:
I was like, how the hell can they figure that out? Then I was like, probably they were being sort of getting all the data from the internet, then who wrote about you, and etc. So yeah, coming from— I, I have a background in IT, so I'm really sort of pay attention to data security and, you know, cybersecurity, information privacy part.

David Hall [00:44:02]:
Yeah, exactly. But you know, everything is changing so rapidly, you know, it's, it's, it's amazing. It still continues to fascinate me how AI is, you know, all the time it's just better and does more things and it's, it's pretty amazing. So that's cool that you're using it for coaching.

Nancy Yang [00:44:23]:
Yeah. I'm, I'm sometimes concerned. I know that this is not, not topic, but AI is like a, it's a topic that I'm passionate about as well. Sometimes I'm a bit concerned about can we really catch up with the development of AI?

David Hall [00:44:37]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a science fiction fan, so I've seen too many AI gone wrong movies, so there's always that in the back of my head.

Nancy Yang [00:44:47]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:44:48]:
Nancy, I could talk with you all day. We've talked about so many great things. Is there anything else you want to add today?

Nancy Yang [00:44:54]:
Well, if there's one thing that I were to name, it's really a call to all the, all the leaders in the space that really, you know, seeing, embracing the superpowers the introverts in your team bring to the team. And they, they bring unique insights if you're giving them, or if you lead them in the way that matches how they work best. And then I really wanted to— I was seeing in coaching, I was seeing many introverts face career challenges because of, you know, being overlooked and because of their reluctant reluctance to speak up. So I think this is— it's a two-side thing. There was an article from— was it, I think, from Simon Sinek? He said wherever when extrovert colleague who doesn't have— maybe who have less challenge in showcasing their work, and then when I would encourage people when you showcase your work, before saying anything, maybe ask yourself who have helped you in doing that and mention their names. I'm pretty sure some of the introverts, if they have helped you, would appreciate you, you name them in the room of opportunities.

David Hall [00:46:12]:
Yeah, that's wonderful. Well said. And I think it is a 2-part mission that I have. I want to help introverts feel stronger in who they are, gain confidence in who they But we have to continue to educate the world. Like, there, we all have different gifts. They're all good. You know, leaders need to know I've got introverts and extroverts on my team. They're going to make different contributions in different ways, but I need them both.

David Hall [00:46:38]:
So yeah, well said on that, Nancy.

Nancy Yang [00:46:41]:
Love that. Yeah, exactly. It's, uh, it takes two to tango. It takes many to really make this quiet, quiet movement. Or quite a revolution.

David Hall [00:46:51]:
That's right. Yeah, we're part of it, right?

Nancy Yang [00:46:54]:
Yes.

David Hall [00:46:55]:
So Nancy, where can people find you? Where can people find out more about the great work you're doing?

Nancy Yang [00:47:00]:
Thanks for giving me this opportunity to plug in a commercial.

David Hall [00:47:03]:
Yeah, plug in a commercial.

Nancy Yang [00:47:06]:
Thanks, Dave—

Nancy Yang [00:47:07]:
David.

Nancy Yang [00:47:08]:
So if they wanted to, you know, just explore my work or just connect to each other, have a chat, then look, look me up at LinkedIn, Nancy Yang, and Coach— the link will be, uh, LinkedIn Coach Nancy Yang. Would you find me and DM me and just have a chat? And it doesn't have to be that we need to work together. I think a call like this just to get, get to know each other, who knows what one conversation could, could lead to, right? Remember, we introverts are good conversationalists. when we're doing one-on-one.

David Hall [00:47:45]:
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks again, Nancy.

Nancy Yang [00:47:47]:
Thanks, David.

David Hall  [00:47:49]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the 4-letter Myers-Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes, and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall  [00:48:29]:
So many great things about being an introvert, and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs.

David Hall [00:48:36]:
Thanks.

David Hall  [00:48:36]:
And be strong.