How To Sell a Script with Kraig Wenman

Is it possible to sell many scripts and actually see the words on a page turned into movies and shows? Yes, it is.

My guest, Kraig Wenman, is the poster child of a busy and prolific writer. 

He has sold 63 scripts and has  27 produced film credits. And he is also one of those lovely Canadians, eh.

His psychological thriller Secret obsession scored 40 million views in 28 days putting in the top 10 most-watched Netflix originals ever. 

You do not want to miss this conversation. We discuss his early days as a starving scribe, to selling his first script, to recently working on set with Mel Gibson and a lot of great tips about pitching, overcoming writers’ block, being collaborative when needing to do rewrites, and how he has become Steve Carell’s doppelganger.

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Secret Obsession 

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Transcript

Alexia Melocchi: 0:04

Welcome to the Heart of Show Business. I am your host, Alexia Melocchi. I believe in great storytelling, and that every successful artist has a deep desire to express something from the heart, to create a ripple effect in our society. Emotion and entertainment are closely tied together. My guests and I want to give you insider access to how the film, television, and music industry works. We will cover dreams come true, the road less traveled, journey beginnings, and a lot of insight and inspiration in between. I am a successful film and television entrepreneur who came to America as a teenager to pursue my show business dreams. Are you ready for some unfiltered real talk with entertainment visionaries from all over the world? Then let's roll sound and action. And action! We're on a movie set, people! No, we're not. We are in my living room. As I look outside to these beautiful Beverly Hills streets, I'm talking with Canada, with Vancouver! I have an amazing guest with me. His name is Kraig Wenman. This is the first time ever, and I know a lot of writers, where a bio says that he has sold 63 scripts. He has 63 feature script sales and 27 produced films. He's from Vancouver, Canada, and his psychological thriller, Secret Obsession, scored 40 million views in 28 days putting it in the top 10 most-watched Netflix originals ever. He's also just finished shooting a movie, which he'll tell us about, with Josh Duhamel and Mel Gibson. You'll tell me all about it. He's one of those vetted writers because you have to be a vetted writer to work for Hallmark and Lifetime and other romance and mystery channels. This is the man and therefore I am so glad to have him on board because I also myself want to hear about the secrets to selling 63 scripts. Welcome Kraig Wenman to my show!

Kraig Wenman: 2:33

Thanks for having me. That's a very dramatic intro.

Alexia Melocchi: 2:37

I want to know your secret sauce. This is what I want to know because I'm going what the hell? I have some of my clients who literally are lucky if they sell one single script in 10 years. So I want to know your secret. First of all, did you just wake up one day and say, I want to be a writer, or was it a process?

Kraig Wenman: 2:58

It was about grade six. I was the class clown. I also kind of just wrote short stories in my free time. The teacher said if you just stop being such a douche during class hours, I'll let you read out your short stories at the end of the class. That's how it started. It was just grade six, and I got to read these things that I would create while I was supposed to be doing math, which I'm not good at because I was writing during that. Then after that, I got into music, and then I was writing songs. Then I just wanted to write something a little longer than four minutes and 15 seconds. I thought I was gonna be a novelist. Then I realized I didn't have the attention span or the talent to be a novelist or to describe a sunset for a couple of chapters. That's not going to be my thing. I'm more plot-oriented, just hit everything. I went to film school here in Vancouver, Vancouver Film School at the time. Now they have a writing campus. At the time they didn't. So I took general, get to know everything stuff.I graduated and realized I didn't really learn anything about writing. I started writing every day and treated it like a job from 9 am till 1 pm and just set a page limit. I gotta do 10 pages, I gotta do 15, I'm gonna do 20 pages before I can eat lunch. I did that for a year. It took a year of starving unemployment. I didn't have heat for the winter that year. I started putting on scarves, the Canadian tux, and at one point the full face mask. I couldn't afford condiments, so we would go to McDonald's and get all the ketchup packets and stuff like that. That was about a year from the moment I decided to be a writer full-time to when I started optioning and selling scripts to great people.

Alexia Melocchi: 5:07

What an incredible story of hunger, pardon the pun.

Kraig Wenman: 5:14

Literally a starving artist.

Alexia Melocchi: 5:18

So tell me the truth. The first ones that you were selling, were they $1 options? Or were you already starting to say, because you were starving, that you want money? You don't want a $1 option.

Kraig Wenman: 5:48

I definitely did a$1 option for the first one. It was called Dead End Job. It was about the small-town reporter who didn't have any stories to tell. It was so bad. It still sold. It was sold to England. England was my first. I'd be in Canada in Vancouver writing and they were the first ones who kind of got my darker humor and the body count. It was just a small-town reporter who didn't have any stories to tell. So they started digging up bodies to make it look like there were grave robbers. Then they were mistaken for murders. It's very Coen Brothers, kind of quirky characters. That one did $1 option for six months. The next one was $5,000. It builds up from there. You take one from the team on the first one. Once you have an option script, that's how you can go to an agent and say I'm an optioned writer rather than someone who has nothing. It's always good to have that one. Even just with a film credit, the first one I did, we shot for $80,000. It was this terrible horror movie. It was really fun to shoot. The total sale was $1,200 for my first scripts. But you take that one, and once you have that credit, then it grows from there.

Alexia Melocchi: 7:12

I love how honest you are about whether your movies or your scripts at the beginning were crappy or not crappy. I love how humble you are about this. It's still a pretty good ratio. I'm doing the math, of 63 to 65 scripts, you have 21 movies produced. That's a good 1/3 of what you write gets turned into movies. That's a pretty nice number. When you're starting to write, were you doing it to write stories that you love? Or were you doing stories that you knew were going to sell because that's what the audience wanted? Or were you doing a combination of the two?

Kraig Wenman: 7:59

When I started, it was just stuff I wanted to do. I still would give that advice to anyone. Write the movie you want to see. Make a list of your top five favorite movies. You'll see they probably are fairly close in tone even if they're different genres, like a thriller, or a comedy, or something like that. They can all have a universal truth. You're looking for family, you're looking for love, you're looking for hope, just whatever genre that you like to watch the most, write that. That's definitely what I started out doing. You also have to make some sales on top of it. At that time, I was writing very R-rated movies. I was writing very Coen Brothers kind of movies, because that's what I was watching at the time. I thought, what were the movies that made me want to be a writer or made me want to go to the movies as a kid? Growing up in the 80s, it was big blockbuster movies like Back to the Future and Goonies. They all had so much heart. I started going that way a little bit, but still, it's always dark. Someone's always gonna die in the first minute of anything I write. Except for this latest one. It's the only one of all the scripts I've written where someone has not died on page one.

Alexia Melocchi: 9:23

I love it. We were talking about whether you're writing things that you love or writing things that you sell. Ultimately, if you write about the things that you love they're going to sell. However, this is an interesting thing. There are so many writers that I know and they second-guess themselves all the time. They will go off and get their script covered 50, or 60 times by different people. Do you ever do that for your script? If somebody turns over coverage to you and says your script blows, what do you do? Do you say, let me think about it? Let me rewrite it and take these notes into consideration. Or do you say F you, I believe in what I write?

Kraig Wenman: 10:06

It's a collaborative process. You're gonna be getting notes from 10 different people. If it's going into production, you're gonna have notes from 30 different people from all the different departments. You got to not be precious about every line you write. I think the biggest, the hardest lesson for any artist or any writer, is just don't think your idea is the best because you thought of it. There might be a better idea out there so be open to its clarity. If you want to do straight art then do a painting. If you want to be a screenwriter, then you're working as a business, and you're working with a whole bunch of creative people to get the best result, or sometimes not the best. It's a tough one. The ego is the hardest thing to overcome. It's collaborative. You're going to have notes and those notes, they're not all gonna match. If you're getting a whole bunch of different crazy notes that don't make sense you can try to clarify it. But if you're getting the same notes from different people saying your characters are not active enough, or this is missing, look for the common notes. Go out to maybe five different people or five people you trust, and just look for the common notes, and then rewrite it from there. Rewrite before we go to shoot anything. It's gonna be Draft 10, Draft 11. That's why you write something you're passionate about, or that's in the genre that you like, because you're going to be with it for a long time. A lot of people are going to be asking you to rewrite it constantly.

Alexia Melocchi: 11:47

Especially the directors and the actors. When you're getting bigger actors on your shows they're gonna have their own sets of notes. Has there been a script of yours, even maybe one that has yet to be produced, where you wrote it for a specific actor in mind that you would love to work with? Has there been any that maybe you didn't get the actor that you had in mind, but you were very, very pleasantly surprised and go, this turned out alright. Even if I didn't get Brad Pitt in my movie.

Kraig Wenman: 12:22

I love Brad Pitt. I would love to get a Brad Pitt movie. I like Brad Pitt as a comedian. Everyone's like, Oh, he's so handsome and dreamy and stuff like that. When you put Brad Pitt in a movie like The Mexican, or any smaller character, I think he's more of a character actor than almost a leading man. Burn After Reading or whatever the Coen Brothers wrote, that's really good. Fight Club's my favorite movie of all time. He could deliver comedy lines. He was great in Thelma and Lousie. That was his big break as the guy who steals all their money. If someone hasn't seen Thelma and Lousie, I just spoiled something. There's always nice surprises because you never know who's available at what time. We shot this last one in Georgia, Bandit. That's coming up next year, 2022, early, I think. They don't have the exact date. I would guess it's probably June but I could be spoiling something. It's those little surprises from people like Josh Duhamel in this one, he's playing a real-life bank robber who's actually very charming. He never hurt anyone in any of the heists and he became friends with his arresting officers. Even the tellers at the bank were like he was kind of charming. I kind of liked him. We needed someone that could smolder and be charming so we got Joshua. That's his bit. He's charming. He's smart. He got there and he could just kill comedy in the same way that Brad Pitt kills comedy. We didn't realize it at all. That was one of these nice surprises of Oh, you have some range. That was exciting. It was cool to work with Mel because once we had him on board, we never thought we could get him in a million years. As soon as he signed on, I'm writing 20 more pages of monologues for Braveheart. If you have Braveheart, you're gonna write some monologues. Unfortunately, he didn't get the pages until a day before. I'm like, it wasn't too many new pages and he's like what? I said, you didn't get the pages yet, did you? He would have half a page and then Josh Duhamel would say one line. He had a day and a half to learn. He killed it. He was awesome. It was really cool. With different actors, you don't know how they're going to be when they've been around since the 70s. Are they going to have an ego? Are they going to improv everything and change all your stuff? Mel was so great. Whereas he was stumbling on the lines because I'd written poorly. Directors say just make up whatever you want. Then Mel says, no, let's go to the writer, get Kraig in here. Me and him bounced lines off of each other saying, Oh, what about this? What about this? I remember that the last one we did was he had written a line. I was like, that's way better. It's like you're a writer or something. This is the guy who wrote Apocalypto. He said yeah, I've got a couple of credits. It was great. Mel was a surprise. Elisha Cuthbert was great. She was from House of Wax, she was on 24. She was on The Ranch recently, and she is also Canadian. We were shooting in Georgia. I'm Canadian, the director's Canadian, and she was Canadian. We had this Axis of Evil Canadians in Georgia. Get a little bit of home with you as you were away from home in a strange new land. Not that Georgia is that strange, but it's definitely different than Vancouver.

Alexia Melocchi: 16:24

I'm sure it is. I'm surprised that they even let the writer on the set because I know so many times they do not like to have writers on board.

Kraig Wenman: 16:32

I go and I show up. I find out when the lunch is on whatever set. I go and get my free lunch. It becomes this running joke, Kraig showing up to get sushi or chicken wings or something at the 1 pm lunch call.

Alexia Melocchi: 16:49

They obviously think you're easy to deal with because sometimes they go, we do not want the writer here because an actor will change a line and you're going, wait a minute! I spent five months getting that line right and you're just taking it out of the movie!

Kraig Wenman: 17:04

You can't be precious, you have to know how to let go. Once you sell a script, it's like selling a car. It's not yours anymore. Someone else drives it off a cliff it's not your fault. If they do drive it off a cliff, and they want you to come and help with the repairs and stuff, then I'm there for that, too.

Alexia Melocchi: 17:31

What a great analogy that is. That's fantastic. Tell me something, what about pitching? I know that is one of the things that many writers are not great at is pitching in the room. Have you sold anything on a pitch where you sat in a room and said this is the story? Did you have that happen to you?

Kraig Wenman: 17:52

A lot of times, but then a lot of times, it depends on any given day. It's like football on any given Sunday, someone wins. I've had a lot of times where I go in with a really long pitch on something I've really thought about. They say what else do you got? Then I'll sell the other one. I try actually not to over-prepare or say too much about the idea. I give the concept. For example, when I sold Freefall I don't think I had even written the script. I said, it's like Fast and Furious but it's in the sky. It's a little bit of Point Break too. That type of thing happens a lot. It's almost like the less you say of a pitch is better. You sell excitement rather than the content at times. If you're ever in a pitch and pitching a story, start out with what the theme is or what the heart is. Specifically, say this. This is a story about a father and a son, or a mom and a daughter. Say that thing because you're gonna be in a room with like three people and all of them are someone's kids. It's something that brings them in a little quicker and you start talking about them and what they have to learn from each other and stuff like that even before you pitch it's the Ghostbusters meets Freddy Got Fingered, or whatever you're doing. I've never pitched that idea. I would never advise anyone to pitch that but it's even better if you're doing a genre thing. If you're doing a thriller, if you're doing a big action movie, always start with those character's things. Look at Fast and Furious, that's the story about a family and brothers. I would always start your pitch with them.

Alexia Melocchi: 19:56

Those are fantastic tips for pitching. I feel that so many writers get into their own heads, and they feel like they have to tell the whole story. Give me the Cliff Notes. Show me who are the characters, and themes, what is the world that we're in. Maybe highlight a couple of really cool scenes you just did, like how there's gonna be an avalanche.

Kraig Wenman: 20:20

You are pitching the trailer. Whenever you write any movie, think of what the trailer is going to be. Especially for genre pieces like thriller, horror, action, and comedy. Start with the heart, and then just tell them a little bit. Make sure your pitch has the same thing that your script does which is a beginning, middle, and end. It starts with these two brothers who need to connect, and then this happens. Then it gets worse and worse and worse. They realize that family's everything. Start with theme and end with theme, but make sure you get those act breaks in there.

Alexia Melocchi: 21:00

Sounds like somebody who's read Save The Cat by Blake Snyder.

Kraig Wenman: 21:04

I've actually never read it. I've only seen clips. I've never read that book. I read Sinfield. I read Robert McKee. I got a little bored with that one. I made it a chapter. Screenwriter's Bible by David Trottier, it's really good. It's just like a textbook. It's this big and you can actually write in it. They have writing exercises if you want to do it that way. That was the one book where this makes a lot more sense. I have not read Save the Cat but I work with everyone who has read it. You definitely have to make those page counts that Save the Cat says and the same with the Screenwriter's Bible. You've got to know your page one, page 10, page 17, page 30, page 45, 60. Your lowest moment, your page 80. It depends on how long the script is.

Alexia Melocchi: 22:00

Exactly. What I love about Save the Cat is that it was a Bible for me. Even when I work with a lot of the writers and filmmakers I always tell them, even the newbies, if you don't want to get into Robert McKee's theory that's too long, just get the nuggets. Go to a movie, any successful movie, and time it with your watch. Look at the moment where there's your catalyst, look at the moment where you're doing your intro, new character, look at the dark night of the soul. Look at the moment with the bad guy, look at where it's all coming together at the end, and then it's going to be break into Act Three. Look at the romance, the best friend, all those little extra support moments. I always say to writers, think about who could be great at playing this. What type of actors do you want? You don't have to aspire to oh, this could be Nicole Kidman or Brad Pitt, but some actors really go by what's my scene? That's really what they care about. I don't know if you've had that happen to you.

Kraig Wenman: 23:08

I think even Gene Hackman says when he goes through a script, he looks for two monologues and a character redemption. He signs on just for those speeches. Even if he's the bad guy, people can see why he's the bad guy. Because villains are the heroes of the story too. They're just going by it in a different way. Or they've made some bad choices along the way. Before I write anything, I know my exact market. I know actors for that market depending on whatever the genre is.

Alexia Melocchi: 23:47

What's coming up next for you? You're a darling of Netflix. At the same time, people seem to love to have you for the romance murder mysteries. What is something that you are working on that it's your personal passion project? You don't have to say the plot because we don't want people to steal the idea.

Kraig Wenman: 24:05

That's what Bandit was. Bandit was kind of my first

Alexia Melocchi: 24:06

Are you listening people? This is how because when you're working for networks, you're a writer for hire, so you don't have a lot of control over it. Whereas this, I heard about the story. I researched the story and bought it's done in the room. He gave you basically a masterclass in the book rights. I bought the life rights, the real-life thief. It's been something I've been doing for the last five years while I've been doing writer for hire work. As a writer, most of your money, I would say 95%, comes out of writer-for-hire jobs rather than selling your own specs. pitching. He told you about his next projects. He was able to Especially when you have to be more collaborative because someone's hiring you for their idea, your job as a writer is to be a professional problem solver. That is the passion project. I also sold a TV series called Doppelgang, and it's a season-long heist like Ocean's 11, but they're stealing people's identities. They're assuming people's identities and concisely tell you the character, the stakes, what their lives rather than stealing money. There's always going to be money involved in the heist. But, it's literally like if I took a screen capture of you right now, I press click and I can put it into either a Google reverse image search, or you can makes it unique, a situation that we've never been in before, do yandex.com or Penalizes is the best. Then I could find someone who looks like you somewhere around the world. Or if I'm taking a selfie of myself, someone who looks like me, and then I can assume that person's identity if they have some type of connections to a banker or to a criminal underworld or something like that. It's about heisting access which is great. This is how you pitch projects. Listen to that. to people. That's cool. That's the next big one. I sold a script recently, it's a dark action comedy, called Hitman for the Holidays. It's these two slacker idiots that are out on Christmas Eve and they accidentally hit a hitman with their car after the bar and the hitman cannot do his hits for Say that you get hired as a writer for hire on somebody the night. He can't do Santa's wish list. So he said you're gonna have to go and kill these people for me or I'm gonna kill you. It's just like Horrible Bosses, that type of comedy of how can we actually kill someone. How do we get out of this situation with big action, Zombieland-style kills. So a else's script. Do you ever do that? Do you ever feel awkward hard-rated R. Those are the next two things. because you're coming in as a fixer on somebody else's script?

Kraig Wenman: 27:19

Absolutely. A lot of the times with networks the first writer was also the producer, so they're still on the project. You have to tread lightly. You don't say stuff like, who would have thought of this stupid fucking idea? The producer has to put up his or her hand and say that's mine. I created this. I do that all the time. I've done 20 of those. It's always treading lightly. I think it works better if you ask more questions rather than saying we should do this. You ask for what they were trying to accomplish, and what they wanted to do, and then see if you can do what they were trying to do. As weird as it is, again, just a professional problem solver. You're a therapist. You're also the patient at the same time. That's what screenwriting is, you're the patient and the doctor.

Alexia Melocchi: 28:17

Wow, that's very therapeutic.

Kraig Wenman: 28:23

It's free therapy. Sometimes you get paid for the therapy, which is good.

Alexia Melocchi: 28:28

Have you wanted to transition into directing? Or you say, Nah, I'm gonna stick to writing. I'm good.

Kraig Wenman: 28:36

After film school, I went and directed music videos, and did some bad shorts. I went and directed wedding videos, and corporate stuff. It was too many questions. I like

my simple schedule of 9 to 12: 28:50

30 or 1 each day, and then I can go and pick my kids up at school, and go to the gym. Directing is not scary to me, it's more annoying. I know how many questions there are gonna be. My friends who are directors, I'm like, I don't know why you want to do this because you're stressed out all the time. I think even directors have a shorter lifespan, too, because they're stressed out all the time. Whereas writers are like, I'll be fine. I'll just do my three, or four hours this morning then chill, and walk on the beach for the rest of the day. No directing, I don't think I'll ever direct anything. Maybe that'll change in 20 years but right now that would be a nightmare for me.

Alexia Melocchi: 29:35

Unless maybe Steve Carell asked you to.

Kraig Wenman: 29:44

People, because they knew some bigger films were being made and also because Bruce Willis was there in our hotel at the same time, they just kept pulling over and saying, Are you Steve Carell? Or do people tell you you look like Steve Carell. I met Steve Carell once and I said to him, do people always come up to you and ask if you look like Kraig Wenman from Canada? And he said I have never heard that. This was in the elevator. Later, we were in the studio the same day and my neighbor happened to be in the studio. He went up to Steve Carell also in the elevator and said, Are you Steve Carell? And Steve says, no I'm Kraig from Canada.

Alexia Melocchi: 30:25

No way, he did that?

Kraig Wenman: 30:31

That's my Steve Carell story.

Alexia Melocchi: 30:32

That's what happens when you become successful and you become somebody who's a pro at your job. You get all these incredible opportunities, and people remember you. You are a writer to be remembered, Kraig, that's why I love having you on my show. It's been great. So many writers get in their heads. God bless them. There's some that are pure geniuses. That's what they do, they just coordinate and they sit in the room and all they do is write.

Kraig Wenman: 30:59

There is so much doubt. Your life as a writer, you're gonna be rejected every single day of your life. Same if you're an actor or producer. This is what we do. We get rejected all the time. We are like these gluttons for punishment. If you can handle that, and it gets easier, the more times you get punched in the face, the easier it is to take a punch in the face. If you can handle that, then this is the job and life for you. If you can't, then I would not suggest doing it. That being said, if you're a writer, you're always going to write. There's no retirement for us. We have no savings for that retirement because we're just going to keep going until we fall over. If you would do it for free, I would say then do it for a living. If you wouldn't do it for free, then just fuck off. It's tough, but anything's tough. They'll always tell you, especially when you're outside or not living in LA, and you tell someone you're gonna be a writer, director, producer, or actor, they say go to LA, everyone's that. Or even the bartender has a script in LA. Of course they do. That's true, that's why you go to LA. You go to Nashville for music, you go to LA for movies. It doesn't mean that bartender has a great script, it just means they have a script. So keep going. It's perseverance. Just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. I see so many people that are just about to break through and then they quit because they have self-doubt. Self-doubt is the killer of all creativity. I met people that have never had writer's block but a lot of people get it. It's that fear of completing something so that you think you're going to fail. If it's completed, and I send it out, I could fail, but if I never complete it, I'll never fail. If you could just get over that hurdle. All a first draft has to be is done. It's like Hemingway says, the first draft of anything is shit. You don't have to show anyone that first draft, just write it. I even skipped sections and dialogue. I'll say, insert something clever here for an action scene and just keep going. It's just about pushing to the end, getting that fade-out type thing because you can't edit a blank page. Once you see it in its entirety of 100 pages or 90 pages, you can say, Oh yeah, this part sucks. A lot of people get stuck on lines of dialogue. If you're getting stuck on a line of dialogue, just write a joke to come in brackets, and then move on. Or if you're stuck on a scene, like I can't get through a scene, or

Alexia Melocchi: 33:51

That was such a masterclass. It was like a if you don't even want to write that scene that day, jump to a scene that you do want to write, jump to the scene that was the reason you started writing the script. Whether it's the showdown or the big twist on page 60. It's okay to jump around or start a new document and just write that scene. That scene will change but that's the way to get over writer's block. It's tough because it's a rejection business. I write through writer's block, which I've never had. I can tell people are very scared about being rejected. That's why it's tough in the arts. little mini how-to-be-a-writer. Whoever's gonna listen to this, they're gonna go, I just got charged up. I just got inspired. Because it is a work in progress. You're absolutely right. I've had writers who come to me, they go, Oh, I'm gonna write a comedy and then all of a sudden, it's a sad one and they go no, actually, it's not a comedy. It's a drama. What do you do? Do you abandon your ship? No, it turned into a drama. Finish it. Then you can think about it again.

Kraig Wenman: 35:08

I don't know who said it. But there's no finished art, there's just abandoned art. It's never going to be done. It's never going to be done. If you ask the Beatles, if you could go back and change that early stuff that made them famous, Paul McCartney said I would always remix, I would always take up that bass note that wasn't held properly long enough to sustain. He'll just say that, but you just got to do it. Then you have to move on. It's like a shark, you gotta keep swimming, or you die. Just push forward. That's all you have to do. It's very simple. You don't have to be a great writer, you have to be a great Rewriter. You'll be a great writer by doing it over and over and over. I'll rewrite my first page maybe 40 times, but not the first time. I'm going straight to the end. It's a sprint to the end and then fix it later.

Alexia Melocchi: 36:04

It's a sprint. By the way, that quote that you just said, I posted it on my Facebook about a few weeks ago, and it's actually Leonardo da Vinci. Like come on, now you got an Italian in the room. That was amazing. I so enjoyed having this conversation with you, Kraig, and I really wish you nothing but continued success because you are legit the real deal. I look forward to more movies coming from you. Now I have a confession. I have not watched Secret Obsession. I'm probably one of the very few people that didn't see it. So I'm gonna have to watch it.

Kraig Wenman: 36:55

That's how I pitched Secret Obsession. If you do watch it, you'll see I pitched it as Misery with the genders reversed.

Alexia Melocchi: 37:04

Interesting. I thought it was like a Fatal Attraction kind of a thing.

Kraig Wenman: 37:10

It's definitely a throwback to those 90s movies. That's what it was made for. What Netflix is looking for is kind of everything that every other network does. Secret Obsession is very lifetime. Every 10 pages, there's a commercial break, basically. They want stuff that's very specifically Lifetime so that they can take away some of the viewers from Lifetime. They want something that's very Hallmark, like a murder mystery. Whatever network there is they want. Look at every network and you could literally sell their top show to Netflix just with a twist.

Alexia Melocchi: 37:56

There you go. That's why you do what you do and you do it magically. I can't wait to see you when you get to LA. Please make sure to look me up.

Kraig Wenman: 38:06

I'm gonna be there. I just found out I am doing a pickup scene for Bandit with Josh Duvall. It'll be shooting in Burbank and staying in Beverly Hills.

Alexia Melocchi: 38:16

I love it. Life always comes full circle, doesn't it? I can't wait to release this episode. I know my listeners are gonna so enjoy it. Thank you for coming on my show, Kraig. I'm going to put everything in the show notes, but is there anything that you want my listeners to go check out beyond your IMDB profile and your Instagram?

Kraig Wenman: 38:41

Instagram at Kraig Wenman. My Twitter is the same

Alexia Melocchi: 38:44

Keep us posted on that when it's released. but I'm not on Twitter. Twitter for news and Instagram for selfies. I have that one angle. I only have one angle. You'll We'll definitely re-promote the episode. It's gonna come out see if you go through my Instagram. I only have one good side and this side from this angle up here. Bandit is gonna be out. There was a press release today. I think it's 150 soon. So we will release it and re-promote it. Truly thank you theaters in 22 states. I don't know the month yet. Then it'll for coming on my show. I've learned a few things myself too, be on demand within that same week. because sometimes I have to pitch my own projects in the room even if I'm not the writer so that was a good little mini masterclass for me as well because we can always see and learn. We never stop learning in our business.

Kraig Wenman: 40:02

You learn something new every day. That's what you have to do.

Alexia Melocchi: 40:06

Thank you for coming and I'm over and out. If you do enjoy this episode to all my listeners, please leave a review, and drop a love note. I'm doing it for no money. So I love some admiration. Not for myself mostly but for my guests because they serve, they give, so please subscribe and review. Those that are following religiously my podcast, thank you for following and we'll keep on going to more guests. Thank you and it's The Heart of Show Business yet another episode with a fabulous writer Kraig Wenman. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of The Heart of Showbusiness. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can also subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast player. If you have any questions, comments or feedback for us, you can reach me directly at the heartofshowbusiness.com